I was astonished that this fine French composer whose music has been much praised by Jezetha and others on this site has not had his own thread!
Jezetha(Johan) has been repeatedly extolling the merit of the Chant funebre on the 'What are you listening to' thread in General Music Discussion and this inspired me to go back and listen again to that fine elegy written in memory of the composer's father in 1895.
(That is what is so great about this forum-reminding one of so much good music one hasn't listened to for some time :))
Magnard was very much a pupil of d'Indy and a product of d'Indy's school which is also represented by composers like Joseph Guy Ropartz and Charles Tournemire. There is a nobility in Magnard's music, a quiet dignity which I find intensely moving. It is the antithesis of what has been called elsewhere the "chi-chi" or "frou frou" in French music :) It is quite amazing that Magnard's music does not get a mention in several authoritative texts. The Third and Fourth Symphonies certainly qualify as two of the very finest symphonies written in France between the Franck in 1888 and the Roussel 3rd and 4th in the 1930s. They outclass-in my opinion the symphonies of Chausson, Dukas and Lalo-and only d'Indy's 2nd is a comparable masterpiece. The chorale which opens the 3rd symphony and returns in the finale is one of my favourite openings in all symphonic music!
There are excellent recordings of the symphonies by Plasson on EMI, Ossone on Hyperion and Thomas Sanderling on BIS.
Magnard's own difficult personality did not particularly help the popularity of his music and he lived as an almost total recluse on his estate near Paris until his tragic death(killed while attempting to defend his country house at Baron-sur-Oise against the invading German army in 1914).
Over to you, Johan...
It can be interesting to listen to different performances of a symphony that has no performance tradition, as is the case with all of Magnard's symphonies. The conductors have to look at the score and see what they make of it, without being guided by numerous performances they have heard live or on record. Plasson and Sanderling are particularly striking in their contrasting approach. Many places where Plasson seems intent on bringing out a supercharges romanticism, Sanderling finds an elegant neo-classical grace. Generally I prefer Sanderling, but both are interesting.
Quote from: scarpia on October 19, 2008, 08:07:03 PM
It can be interesting to listen to different performances of a symphony that has no performance tradition, as is the case with all of Magnard's symphonies. The conductors have to look at the score and see what they make of it, without being guided by numerous performances they have heard live or on record. Plasson and Sanderling are particularly striking in their contrasting approach. Many places where Plasson seems intent on bringing out a supercharges romanticism, Sanderling finds an elegant neo-classical grace. Generally I prefer Sanderling, but both are interesting.
The Ossonce performances on Hyperion are very highly quoted.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/july99/magnard.htm
I like Magnard very much, especially Symphony No 4 and Chant Funebre (very moving). I have the French EMI Plasson box and a couple of the Hyperions.
Jeffrey (in haste from work)
By coincidence I have just finished listening to the excellent Timpani CD of the orchestral music which contains the 'Chant funebre' a very striking piece along with the 'Hymne a la Justice,' performed in the open air in Paris after the War (its last public performance?) and the 'Hymne a Venus.'
His bent is towards the German school as advocated by those such as D' Indy. It might explain why they are neglected in comparison to the more "French" composers such as Debussy and Ravel.
The symphonies pre-echo Mahler on occasion.
This German influence is recognised by Thomas Sanderling in his recordings of the symphonies but Ossonce offers a viable alternative with a marginally better orchestra.
Since you are unlikely to hear any of this in concert I would get both Ossonce and Sanderling and Mark Stringer's Timpani disc.
In fact, I did and have not been disappointed!
The Chant funebre and Hymne a la Justice are also in the Plasson collection on EMI but the Hymne a Venus and the Suite dans le syle ancien on the Timpani disc are not.
Are these two pieces worth the price of the disc? Sorry, nasty question, i know!
Nice to see Magnard being praised here. :)
I know only his four symphonies, having downloaded them earlier this year when eClassical had an offer on the BIS Sanderling set. What struck me was how much they sounded at once like Bruckner and Strauss, with shades of Mahler and perhaps even a little dash of Saint-Saens. That might sound to some like a heady cocktail (and may also be refuted by others), but I enjoyed these works immensely, and I wouldn't mind a few recommendations for works not yet mentioned in this thread.
FK
Quote from: Kuhlau on October 20, 2008, 11:54:04 AM
Nice to see Magnard being praised here. :)
I know only his four symphonies, having downloaded them earlier this year when eClassical had an offer on the BIS Sanderling set. What struck me was how much they sounded at once like Bruckner and Strauss, with shades of Mahler and perhaps even a little dash of Saint-Saens. That might sound to some like a heady cocktail (and may also be refuted by others), but I enjoyed these works immensely, and I wouldn't mind a few recommendations for works not yet mentioned in this thread.
FK
Yes, I can see where you are coming from with your reference to Bruckner! There is a Brucknerian feel, for example, to the noble chorale which opens the 3rd Symphony.
Unfortunately, Magnard was extremely self-critical and wrote very little :( There are only 22 works with opus numbers! So the four symphonies(op. 4, op.6, op.11 and op.21), the Suite dans le style ancien, op.2, the Chant funebre, op.9, the Ouverture, op.10, the Hymne a la Justice, op.14 and the Hymne a Venus, op.17 account for 9 of those! The remaining pieces are chamber or instrumental works on which I am not qualified to express an opinion.
The string quartet, op. 16 has however been praised by critics.
Just would like to be part of this thread for future updates! :D
Currently, I own the four Symphonies on BIS w/ Sanderling; these are excellent performances and have been well recommended by David Hurwitz on ClassicsToday (Nos. 1 & 3 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=41933) and Nos. 2 & 4 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=41426), both rated 10/10 for recording/performance); note that Brilliant Classics have brought these 3-CDs together into a $12 offering - this is difficult to beat, if you want into these orchestral works!
In addition to the above, the only other Magnard that I own currently is a disc of Woodwind Quintets, one each of Andre Caplet & Alberic Magnard, both tragic deaths related to WWI (the Magnard already stated previously; Caplet suffered from gas poisoning in the war and died an early death in 1925); these 'woodwind chamber' works were composed in the 1890s, and are delightful - the disc that I own have performaces by the Aura Ensemble (below, bottom right) on a fairly obscure label for me - :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/398696082_pd4fx-M.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/398696091_8M6ar-M.jpg)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/398696101_hWVJN-M.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/398696113_3LfRZ-M.jpg)
Thank you for the enthusiastic recommendations. :)
FK
Colin, you have been busy!! I have been busy, too - with other things, and I still am. But I certainly have something to say about Magnard. Later.
Quote from: Jezetha on October 21, 2008, 05:34:03 AM
Colin, you have been busy!! I have been busy, too - with other things, and I still am. But I certainly have something to say about Magnard. Later.
Perhaps it's just my juvenile desire to reach the magic number of 1000 posts ;D
Then I'll help you, Colin...
The first thing by Magnard I ever heard was his Third Symphony, under Ansermet, which I downloaded from Usenet two years ago. The wonderful opening, with its archaic brass chorale, impressed me immediately. Also the wonderfully tender lyricism. Magnard has something of Nielsen's innocence and light. He is austere and sensuous at the same time. There is also a seriousness to him which I admire. His music is always heading somewhere. Rob Barnett, from Musicweb fame, thinks the slow movement of the Third meanders - I don't think so. When tempo and intensity are correct (as in Ansermet and Sanderling), the piece is extraordinarily moving, a melancholy meditation with some rustic scenes interposed.
What have I heard so far? All the symphonies (Sanderling and Ossonce, and Ansermet in the Third), and the Ouverture, Chant funèbre and Hymne à la Justice (Plasson, thanks to Colin). I still have to listen to the Hymne à Vénus, his chamber music and his 3 operas (only Guercoeur, afaik, has been recorded, 20 years ago...) I know I want to hear everything.
I rate the Fourth Symphony and the Chant funèbre highest, closely followed by the Third and the Hymne à la Justice. The Ouverture is a work Magnard didn't like himself, but it still has many beauties. The first two symphonies are pre-Magnard, they don't speak with that very individual voice he found from his op. 9 (Chant funèbre) onwards. But I intend to listen to them more often. Magnard wrote so little...
This ends the first post.
Two interesting links:
http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/prefaces/M-R/magnard_sym3.html
http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/prefaces/M-R/magnard_hymne.html
Thanks for your excellent contribution to the thread, Johan! I do so agree with you about the 3rd Symphony. The comparison with Nielsen had not occurred to me before-strange since I love Nielsen's music and once esteemed it more highly than that of Sibelius although I would eschew such a 'rating' today :) But yes the obvious love of nature and the sounds of nature in the music do suggest such a link.
I am tempted now to buy the Timpani disc just in order to have the Hymne a Venus and the Suite dans le style ancien :)
(Now...thinks of something for 1,000th post ;D ;D)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 21, 2008, 07:49:02 AM
Thanks for your excellent contribution to the thread, Johan! I do so agree with you about the 3rd Symphony. The comparison with Nielsen had not occurred to me before-strange since I love Nielsen's music and once esteemed it more highly than that of Sibelius although I would eschew such a 'rating' today :) But yes the obvious love of nature and the sounds of nature in the music do suggest such a link.
I am tempted now to buy the Timpani disc just in order to have the Hymne a Venus and the Suite dans le style ancien :)
(Now...thinks of something for 1,000th post ;D ;D)
I'll help you again - Magnard and Nielsen were born
on the same day... And even more amazing - there are passages in Magnard that really
sound like Nielsen: at the end of the first movement of his Third, in the coda, there are a few bars that are
echt Nielsen. And last week, when I was humming a passage from the
Hymne à la Justice (iirc) I suddenly found myself in the slow movement of Nielsen's Third! Also his use of grace notes remind me of Nielsen.
Okay - post no. 1000...
A few goodies are here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=191b3b8d4da3c14fab1eab3e9fa335ca6ef784b491c50175
A few thoughts about the Hymne à la Justice.
This is an orchestral piece in the Beethovenian mould (think Egmont or Coriolan). It starts with tremendous energy, with a jagged motif that permeates everything. Even when the music quietens down you feel the tension below the surface. It is written in (a rather free? I don't have a score) sonata style. There is one very striking passage, which made me smile, though it is very thrilling indeed, where Bruckner meets Wagner's Valkyries. It comes in two grand waves, built on the famous Valkyrie rhythm, and when the second wave starts you are reminded of... Scriabin, the Scriabin of the Third Symphony and the Poème de l'extase.
It's a great piece. But I think even more highly of the Chant funèbre, because it has a flow and an inexorability that make it unforgettable. I have been playing it almost non-stop for two whole weeks now... I even bought a score.
Later addition: the climax of Justice ia rather Wagnerian - swirling string figuration around the main theme. A bit like Tannhäuser.
Rushes off to replay the Hymne a la Justice :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 20, 2008, 06:58:58 AM
The Chant funebre and Hymne a la Justice are also in the Plasson collection on EMI but the Hymne a Venus and the Suite dans le syle ancien on the Timpani disc are not.
Are these two pieces worth the price of the disc? Sorry, nasty question, i know!
The Hymne a Venus concludes the Timpani disc very cleverly so that you go away with its themes echoing in your head.
The Suite is more of a student exercise.
I am not convinced by Plasson in this music so, the answer is 'yes' and is Timpani not on Special Offer at MDT?
Quote from: Hector on October 23, 2008, 05:34:11 AM
The Hymne a Venus concludes the Timpani disc very cleverly so that you go away with its themes echoing in your head.
The Suite is more of a student exercise.
I am not convinced by Plasson in this music so, the answer is 'yes' and is Timpani not on Special Offer at MDT?
Why? I have been listening to his readings of the
Ouverture,
Justice and
Chant a lot the last few weeks, and they have convinced me. How does his approach differ from Stringer's, that you prefer the latter's interpretations?
Quote from: Jezetha on October 23, 2008, 05:57:41 AM
Why? I have been listening to his readings of the Ouverture, Justice and Chant a lot the last few weeks, and they have convinced me. How does his approach differ from Stringer's, that you prefer the latter's interpretations?
I think Stringer lets the music speak for itself while Plasson sounds extraordinarily heavy.
If Stringer, Ossonce and Sanderling had not come along I am sure that I would be happy with Plasson but they did and I have come to prefer them.
Quote from: Hector on October 24, 2008, 05:56:50 AM
If Stringer, Ossonce and Sanderling had not come along I am sure that I would be happy with Plasson but they did and I have come to prefer them.
I generally agree regarding Plasson, it was the first I heard and was good enough to convince me that Magnard is interesting. However I have come to prefer Sanderling (partly because of the unpleasant early digital EMI sound). However I don't find Ossonce convincing.
Another composer whose work I need to get to know . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on October 31, 2008, 07:37:10 AM
Another composer whose work I need to get to know . . . .
Certainly is :) Exploration broadens the mind as well as the horizons ;D
Quote from: karlhenning on October 31, 2008, 07:37:10 AM
Another composer whose work I need to get to know . . . .
I hope you saw this link, Karl...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=191b3b8d4da3c14fab1eab3e9fa335ca6ef784b491c50175
I just wanted to say that I've realy enjoyed Magnard's symphonies as well. I initially got it because of the eClassical deal; however, I was somewhat reluctant to move them to the tops of my playlist because of some opinions on another site. While not damning, it certainly wasn't quite as praiseworthy as this particular thread. I'm glad I gave him a shot -- I really enjoy his works.
Quote from: monafam on July 29, 2009, 05:57:26 AM
I just wanted to say that I've realy enjoyed Magnard's symphonies as well. I initially got it because of the eClassical deal; however, I was somewhat reluctant to move them to the tops of my playlist because of some opinions on another site. While not damning, it certainly wasn't quite as praiseworthy as this particular thread. I'm glad I gave him a shot -- I really enjoy his works.
Which proves the point: no opinion is more important than your own. Glad you like the symphonies. Which versions do you own? I'm a Sanderling man, but enjoy Ossonce too; very different interpretations.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 29, 2009, 06:05:19 AM
Which proves the point: no opinion is more important than your own. Glad you like the symphonies. Which versions do you own? I'm a Sanderling man, but enjoy Ossonce too; very different interpretations.
Yes, I think you need both series. Sanderling and Ossonce both understand Magnard's music very well, but they stress different aspects. To be very simplistic about it: Ossonce accentuates the drama and the colour, Sanderling the seriousness and the construction. Perhaps it's France vs. Germany...
I have one very unmusical confession to make - whenever I listen to Magnard's Fourth I choose Sanderling for the first three movements but Ossonce for the hair-raising finale. Ossonce really brings out the desperation and heroism of that movement. With him it becomes an emotional rollercoaster that only just ends in (heavily) qualified triumph. Very moving.
I happened to purchase the Sanderling versions.
While I know the conductor/performer makes an impact, I've never really considered the impact the different interpretations should make. If I purchase this other set, it sounds like I will have an excellent case study!
Thanks!
I just heard a snippet of Magnard's sole SQ (e minor, 1906?). Wow, it seems to have "the" sound. I have heard that Magnard's and Schoenberg's Op.7 are the two SQs that most fully answer late Beethoven.
There are a few recordings: Artis?, Via Nova, Ysaye, Hyperion?. The Ysaye had so-so reviews, the Artis (on Adda) is ridiculously expensive, and the Via Nova awaits review. I'm not sure about the Hyperion (or, if there is one).
But, judging from the little I head, Magnard's SQ could be a long lost epic masterpiece.
Anyone?
Have the Via Nova. Excelent IMHO.Also have all Dvorak, and Schubert, and...nearly 300 more. I LOVE SQ!! ;D
Quote from: snyprrr on July 31, 2009, 03:31:13 PM
I just heard a snippet of Magnard's sole SQ (e minor, 1906?). Wow, it seems to have "the" sound. I have heard that Magnard's and Schoenberg's Op.7 are the two SQs that most fully answer late Beethoven.
There are a few recordings: Artis?, Via Nova, Ysaye, Hyperion?. The Ysaye had so-so reviews, the Artis (on Adda) is ridiculously expensive, and the Via Nova awaits review. I'm not sure about the Hyperion (or, if there is one).
But, judging from the little I head, Magnard's SQ could be a long lost epic masterpiece.
Anyone?
Yes it is good! This is surprising! :D Anyway check out
| (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NYYMWGNZL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Alb%C3%A9ric-Magnard-Gabriel-Faur%C3%A9-Quartets/dp/B0007INYBM) |
and you will also get Faure's sublime string quartet. 0:)
Quote from: DavidW on July 31, 2009, 04:35:42 PM
Yes it is good! This is surprising! :D Anyway check out
| (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NYYMWGNZL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Alb%C3%A9ric-Magnard-Gabriel-Faur%C3%A9-Quartets/dp/B0007INYBM) |
and you will also get Faure's sublime string quartet. 0:)
I second David's recommendation.
Sarge
I just got the Quatuor Ysaye recording of the SQ, with the Faure.
Wow, I have listened for a few days now, and I think this Magnard is shooting right up to the top of my "most-attractive-to-listen-to" list. The is plenty of drama, but there is a certain "consonance" to all the hard parts, so that the entire thing is sooo easy to listen to, even though it is as deep and thought provoking as late LvB (perhaps the Eb comes to mind the most).
All I can say is that this SQ sounds to me like nothing else. All of the Romantic red flags that I don't like,... aren't there. Maybe it's the way he develops, but I am riveted to every note, as if I can hear Magnard writing the piece.
The first mvmt just keeps on going and going,... it reminds me of some kind of the noblest King Arthur/ forest music. It's very hard for me to describe, but I feel like I'm listening to an organic Klimpt(?) painting.
The scherzo sounds so familiar that I'm wondering who Magnard stole the theme from? This is some of the most immediately appealing serious classical music I've ever heard.
The slow mvmt (Chant Funebre) has a very rarified atmosphere. It is neither sad, nor gloomy,... but has such a noble sentiment that I can't really say,... it's just really a unique sound Magnard has going in theis SQ.
Sorry, I'm just sold.
I think it was the MusicWeb review that said that this recording wasn't as,...incisive?... as the Artis on the old Accord cd; but, this recording is so special (the notes even go on about the sound of the Abbey where this was recorded) that I really could care less right now. The recording is so sumptuous one really feels like one is sitting in a very special place.
I know this review sounds a bit aon the fairy side, but this score is really a nice big steak dinner. Enjoy!
And, the Faure, with the same sublime sound, makes a perfect discmate to this jewel.
Cool beans. :)
Thanks, snyprrr, for that wonderful endorsement. I now know for certain my Magnard collection isn't complete!
Quote from: Jezetha on January 31, 2010, 05:20:42 AM
Thanks, snyprrr, for that wonderful endorsement. I now know for certain my Magnard collection isn't complete!
Me too - I love Magnard's Symphony 4 and Chant Funebre - so this sounds like a must.
Magnard's Symphony No. 4 is a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned, though the third was wonderful as well. I wished he composed much more. I own both the Sanderling and Ossonce recordings (I have not heard Plasson's set though I generally dislike his conducting). I like the energy of the Sanderling, but the natural flow that Ossonce produces is much more alluring to me. Ossoance also knows how to build those climaxes, but his handling of the more lyrical sections is truly exemplary.
Must have Magnard
[asin]B001APFIOC[/asin]
Unfortunately as an appendage to a bunch of Liszt on a 2-CD set, but whaddaya gonna do. I have not heard the Ossonce set, but this Ansermet recording easily bests Sanderling or Plasson both for performance and recording quality. There's also a mono broadcast of a live Ansermet performance of the Magnard on Cascavelle that has been getting praise in the mags.
Quote from: Daverz on March 26, 2011, 07:09:13 PM
Must have Magnard
[asin]B001APFIOC[/asin]
Unfortunately as an appendage to a bunch of Liszt on a 2-CD set, but whaddaya gonna do. I have not heard the Ossonce set, but this Ansermet recording easily bests Sanderling or Plasson both for performance and recording quality. There's also a mono broadcast of a live Ansermet performance of the Magnard on Cascavelle that has been getting praise in the mags.
A not very obvious coupling I agree, and one that will prevent me from buying this disc. A single disc with the Magnard coupled with some similar (preferable reasonably obscure) french music from the same period would have made it a must-buy for me. I suddenly see there are some advantages to downloads.
Quote from: The new erato on March 27, 2011, 01:42:35 AM
A not very obvious coupling I agree, and one that will prevent me from buying this disc. A single disc with the Magnard coupled with some similar (preferable reasonably obscure) french music from the same period would have made it a must-buy for me. I suddenly see there are some advantages to downloads.
Yes, I wouldn't buy this 2-CD set either. The coupling just isn't logical at all. I own the Sanderling and Ossonce cycles, so I'm pretty set as far as the symphonies go.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 26, 2011, 06:24:42 PM
Magnard's Symphony No. 4 is a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned, though the third was wonderful as well. I wished he composed much more. I own both the Sanderling and Ossonce recordings (I have not heard Plasson's set though I generally dislike his conducting). I like the energy of the Sanderling, but the natural flow that Ossonce produces is much more alluring to me. Ossoance also knows how to build those climaxes, but his handling of the more lyrical sections is truly exemplary.
I think I agree. Sanderling is very precise, very 'Germanic' in his approach. This is certainly valid, for there is something Beethovenian in Magnard's seriousness and purposefulness. But Ossonce has more passion. That's why I always play the first three movements of no. 4 (a masterpiece indeed) in Sanderling's reading, but the final movement in Ossonce's... Blasphemous, perhaps. But Ossonce catches that note of heroic desperation - akin to that of the Finale of Mahler's Sixth - far, far better.
Quote from: Daverz on March 26, 2011, 07:09:13 PM
Must have Magnard
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B001APFIOC.01.L.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001APFIOC/?tag=goodmusicguideco)
Unfortunately as an appendage to a bunch of Liszt on a 2-CD set, but whaddaya gonna do. I have not heard the Ossonce set, but this Ansermet recording easily bests Sanderling or Plasson both for performance and recording quality. There's also a mono broadcast of a live Ansermet performance of the Magnard on Cascavelle that has been getting praise in the mags.
That Ansermet performance is a gem. I got it from Usenet years ago (doesn't sound all that good, due to the guy ripping it), but it was a revelation all the same.
I'm inspired by this thread to check this music out. I can't wait!
:D
Anyone interested in listening to operatic Magnard - someone has been uploading the first Act of 'Guercoeur' to YouTube. Stylistically there are many similarities with the Third and Fourth symphonies. The work itself is very curious. Magnard had a very ethical and abstract bent (Hymn to Justice!) and it shows. I don't think this work will ever work as drama, bus as music there is nothing wrong with it.
It starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdvJfPWxGXI&feature=related
Quote from: The new erato on March 27, 2011, 01:42:35 AM
A not very obvious coupling I agree, and one that will prevent me from buying this disc. A single disc with the Magnard coupled with some similar (preferable reasonably obscure) french music from the same period would have made it a must-buy for me. I suddenly see there are some advantages to downloads.
Why the Hatin' on Liszt? Sometimes they lay the syrup on to heavy when performing Liszt, but when done with a light hand it can sparkle. (It is interesting to hear Karajan's early Philharmonia Liszt in comparison with his later Wagnerized performances on DG.) I'm looking forward to hearing Ansermet's take on both composers. My copy is on order.
[asin]B001APFIOC[/asin]
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on March 30, 2011, 12:49:19 PM
Why the Hatin' on Liszt? Sometimes they lay the syrup on to heavy when performing Liszt, but when done with a light hand it can sparkle. (It is interesting to hear Karajan's early Philharmonia Liszt in comparison with his later Wagnerized performances on DG.) I'm looking forward to hearing Ansermet's take on both composers. My copy is on order.
[asin]B001APFIOC[/asin]
You certainly had a creative reading of my post. I just don't
need the Liszt works (which are reasonably available in a multitude of recordings already) like I would like an alternative reading of the Magnard; and in addition don't like to splurge out for a double CD when what interests me is about half a discs worth of music.
And I do think that many will think like me and will avoid the set if you aren't partcularly interested in Ansermet, thus loosing the company some sales....
Quote from: The new erato on March 30, 2011, 11:08:14 PM
You certainly had a creative reading of my post. I just don't need the Liszt works (which are reasonably available in a multitude of recordings already) like I would like an alternative reading of the Magnard; and in addition don't like to splurge out for a double CD when what interests me is about half a discs worth of music.
And I do think that many will think like me and will avoid the set if you aren't partcularly interested in Ansermet, thus loosing the company some sales....
Who knows how many people will buy the discs for the Liszt, and consider the Magnard a filler?
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on March 30, 2011, 11:24:07 PM
Who knows how many people will buy the discs for the Liszt, and consider the Magnard a filler?
And they will get an incredibly good deal. But I stil don't see coupling such different music on a twofer as a good idea, two single discs would have been better.
Quote from: The new erato on March 30, 2011, 11:26:48 PM
And they will get an incredibly good deal. But I stil don't see coupling such different music on a twofer as a good idea, two single discs would have been better.
I suspect their problem was that the Liszt was too much for one disc but not enough for two, and they wanted to top it off. Separate discs might have been a more practical alternative, although I probably would have gotten both and it would have cost me more.
Had my introduction to Magnard this weekend, with the string quartet.
I like it! I have to admit on the first listen there was a certain feeling of "goodness, what a lot of notes", but I think a big part of that is I basically haven't had any chamber music representing that late Romantic period/style. The sonata structure is certainly there, the dialogue between instruments is there. It's massive, but it does all hold together.
Great news for anyone interested in Magnard ! EMI will soon be reissuing its superb recording of Guercoeur (very hard word to spell), with Plasson, Van Dam, and Behrens . Do not miss it ! I borrowed on library interloan some time ago and was astonished that such an obscure opera could be so great .
This may be the greatest opera you've never heard . The plot is truly strange, but the music is magnificent .
Contrary to one poster here, I've always admired Plasson's conducting greatly, and his efforts to record obscure but worthy French works
is something classical CD collectors must be profoundly grateful for.
8) 8) 8) 8)
Excellent! Thanks for this good piece of news. I posted a link here to the First Act that a kind soul put on YouTube more than a year ago. It's good to have the whole work!
Guercœur has been available in Europe for several months now. My copy arrived June 8th. I've only heard the first act so far. Need to give it a serious listen.
Sarge
Ah, I missed that...
I browsed www.europeana.eu (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/www.europeana.eu) and found some rare photos: two of our composer as a child (1867), one with his daughter Ondine in 1904, a picture of his wife Julie and a final one of his house and tomb at Baron...
The final one...
Just a question about magnard's first name. Why did his parents call him alberich? Hadn't they heard of the ring, hadn't they heard that alberich is not a nice character?
Magnard was born in 1865, years before the completion of the Ring. 'Albéric' is, according to a French webpage, a sort of superlative for Albert, and was quite popular centuries earlier among Merovingian nobles. It means 'powerfully and famously noble', or something like that (adal + bert + rik).
Signification prénom :
Étymologiquement, Alberic est comblé : il réunit la noblesse, adal, la célébrité, behrt, et la puissance, rik. Ce prénom d'origine germanique est considéré comme une sorte de superlatif d'Albert.
Assez répandu chez les grands seigneurs à l'époque mérovingienne, il est resté depuis assez discret - souvent remplacé par son diminutif Aubry. Tous deux sont aujourd'hui, en France, des prénoms assez rares. Saint Alberic était un prêtre des missions étrangères de Paris. Il fut envoyé en Chine à la fin du XIXe siècle et fut victime, en 1900, de la révolte des Boxers, ces membres de la secte du Lotus blanc qui tentèrent en vain de chasser les Européens.
He must have been annoyed when he did first learn of the ring, then. :D
So annoyed, he killed a few Germans whilst defending his house during World War I, and was killed in his turn.
Is there a really exceptional performance of Magnard's Sonata for Violin and Piano in G, Op. 13 that I should seek out?
I think that is the piece I am looking for, unless there is another violin/piano sonata I have missed.
Is the portrait used for this forthcoming release an actual depiction of Magnard defending his estate from marauding Germans, I wonder?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alberic-Magnard-Musique-Chambre/dp/B00L98UNKE
[asin]B00L98UNKE[/asin]
Quote from: NLK1971 on August 01, 2014, 01:50:23 PM
Is the portrait used for this forthcoming release an actual depiction of Magnard defending his estate from marauding Germans, I wonder?
No, it isn't Magnard. It's a painting by Charles Spencelayh (1865-1958) called
Zeppelins.
Sarge
Knowing what Magnard looked like, I found the question quite funny, actually... And I thank Sarge for his, undoubtedly correct, attribution. Strange painting, that!
QuoteNo, it isn't Magnard. It's a painting by Charles Spencelayh (1865-1958) called Zeppelins.
Sarge
Thanks for that. Based on your information I found this interesting blog post:
http://goldenagepaintings.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/charles-spencelayh-zeppelins.html (http://goldenagepaintings.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/charles-spencelayh-zeppelins.html)
I've never heard any music of Magnard's, but I'm now resolved to listen soon to Ansermet's recording of symphony 3 contained in his
French Music box.
Great symphony and a powerful reading. The first thing by Magnard I ever heard.
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on August 02, 2014, 06:08:10 AMStrange painting, that!
Yeah, really strange. Hunting Zeppelins with a flintlock pistol ;D
Sarge
Quote from: NLK1971 on August 02, 2014, 06:38:49 AM
Thanks for that. Based on your information I found this interesting blog post:
http://goldenagepaintings.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/charles-spencelayh-zeppelins.html (http://goldenagepaintings.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/charles-spencelayh-zeppelins.html)
Thanks for the link. Interesting indeed.
Quote from: NLK1971 on August 02, 2014, 06:38:49 AM
I've never heard any music of Magnard's, but I'm now resolved to listen soon to Ansermet's recording of symphony 3 contained in his French Music box.
That's a great piece, and performance, to begin a Magnard exploration.
Sarge
Quote... I wish he had composed more ...
Being killed when one is only 49 yrs old puts a damper on one's output - additionally, at least 3 completed works in manuscript were destroyed in the fire he died in, so the world will never hear them. While not a prolific composer up to the point, he had produced some work of fine quality. Who knows how long he might have lived and accomplished? Like Beethoven, he seems to have conquered deafness in stopping his composing ability.
I admire the Quintet in d, Op.8 for pf, fl, ob, cl, and bn (1894) quite a bit. Each movement has its own character.
I have been listening repeatedly to Symphony 4 and Chant Funebre on an old EMI CD (I had the same performances on LP) with the Orchestre du Capitole Toulouse conducted by Michel Plasson. These are both deeply moving works which I cannot recommend strongly enough to anyone who does not know them. The central movement of the Symphony is especially poignant and eloquent. Here is the Plasson boxed set:
[asin]B000006DFJ[/asin]
I agree! I would add the Third Symphony, the Hymn to Justice and the Overture. My favourites in all the shorter orchestral works is Plasson. In the Third Ansermet reigns supreme, and for the Fourth: Sanderling is perfect in the first three movements, but for the final one you need Ossonce. I love Magnard. I still have to discover his chamber music. It's nice to have something to look forward to.
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on July 09, 2015, 08:42:22 AM
I agree! I would add the Third Symphony, the Hymn to Justice and the Overture. My favourites in all the shorter orchestral works is Plasson. In the Third Ansermet reigns supreme, and for the Fourth: Sanderling is perfect in the first three movements, but for the final one you need Ossonce. I love Magnard. I still have to discover his chamber music. It's nice to have something to look forward to.
I have just ordered the Ansermet (your fault 8)). I think that I had it on cassette years ago and I have the greatest admiration for Answermet as a conductor (his recording of Honegger's 4th Symphony 'Delights of Basel' is in a class of its own). I think that I have the Sanderling recordings in a Brilliant CD super-cheap boxed set and the Ossonce recording of No.4. I see that there is a Timpani CD of shorter works including Chant Funebre. So, will be listening to Sanderling and Ossonce. :)
QuoteSo, will be listening to Sanderling and Ossonce.
The voice of reason.
Johan! What have you done?! 8)
::)
Quote from: Daverz on March 26, 2011, 07:09:13 PM
Must have Magnard
[asin]B001APFIOC[/asin]
Unfortunately as an appendage to a bunch of Liszt on a 2-CD set, but whaddaya gonna do. I have not heard the Ossonce set, but this Ansermet recording easily bests Sanderling or Plasson both for performance and recording quality. There's also a mono broadcast of a live Ansermet performance of the Magnard on Cascavelle that has been getting praise in the mags.
This performance of the Third Symphony has made me realise that it is the equal of the wonderful Fourth Symphony. Ansermet is one of my favourite conductors, especially of French and Russian music. I could have done without the Liszt works but you can't have everything.
I never got on with the Magnard symphonies at all. Had the Plasson set but made someone else happy with it (hopefully)...
I am still curious about the chamber music though, any fans here? specific works? How is that complete set on Timpani?
Quote from: Klaze on January 15, 2016, 03:07:58 PM
I never got on with the Magnard symphonies at all. Had the Plasson set but made someone else happy with it (hopefully)...
I am still curious about the chamber music though, any fans here? specific works? How is that complete set on Timpani?
I had listened to his chamber music in Accord recordings before I ever heard his orchestral works, I had been the great fan of it, especially of the Violin Sonata, and then I was rather disappointed by symphonies. I would put Violin Sonata in the top tier of best works of this genre I ever heard - together with Kreutzer Sonata ad the 2nd of Prokofiev. I remember that I liked the Quartet and the Quintet very much as well and that I find Cello Sonata And Trio no less interesting.
Quote from: mszczuj on January 15, 2016, 10:25:29 PM
I had listened to his chamber music in Accord recordings before I ever heard his orchestral works, I had been the great fan of it, especially of the Violin Sonata, and then I was rather disappointed by symphonies. I would put Violin Sonata in the top tier of best works of this genre I ever heard - together with Kreutzer Sonata ad the 2nd of Prokofiev. I remember that I liked the Quartet and the Quintet very much as well and that I find Cello Sonata And Trio no less interesting.
Interesting. Clearly I must hear the Violin Sonata.
Quote from: Klaze on January 15, 2016, 03:07:58 PM
I never got on with the Magnard symphonies at all. Had the Plasson set but made someone else happy with it (hopefully)...
I am still curious about the chamber music though, any fans here? specific works? How is that complete set on Timpani?
Received the Timpani set last week. It's been terrific so far. I agree with
mszczuj about the greatness of the violin sonata. The string quartet is magnificent as well, although I have only heard the recording by the Quatuor Ysaye (coupled with Fauré).
Alternatively, you could get this recent release, which got some good reviews last year:
(http://i.prs.to/t_300/761203776528.jpg)
Thanks mszczuj and Camphy.
From a quick search it seems that the Timpani set, that CPO release and the Quatuor YSaye discs are the only easy ways to acquire some of this stuff, lot of out of print items otherwise.
On to the wishlist they go.
This composer is magnificent. It's a real shame that he died relatively 'young', he had great gifts in composition. I think the 4th symphony is his best orchestral work. I'm playing 'Hymne à la Justice', it has a heroic rush that generates some tension (which I love). Also I have listened to the String Quartet in E minor: elegant and somewhat elegiac. I think Magnard knew how to express sad feelings in music very effectively.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 26, 2017, 06:50:39 PM
This composer is magnificent. It's a real shame that he died relatively 'young', he had great gifts in composition. I think the 4th symphony is his best orchestral work. I'm playing 'Hymne à la Justice', it has a heroic rush that generates some tension (which I love). Also I have listened to the String Quartet in E minor: elegant and somewhat elegiac. I think Magnard knew how to express sad feelings in music very effectively.
I agree - the Fourth and Third symphonies and Chant Funebre are my favourite works by Magnard. I often find his work moving.
Anyone who loves Magnard's music can count on my gratitude. Ever since hearing the Ansermet Third, Magnard is among the greats for me. His music has tenderness and severity. I love all of his orchestral music, but the Chant funèbre, the Hymne à la Justice and the Third and Fourth symphonies rank highest in my estimation.
Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on January 27, 2017, 01:26:20 AM
Anyone who loves Magnard's music can count on my gratitude. Ever since hearing the Ansermet Third, Magnard is among the greats for me. His music has tenderness and severity. I love all of his orchestral music, but the Chant funèbre, the Hymne à la Justice and the Third and Fourth symphonies rank highest in my estimation.
Ansermet's Third is a wonderful performance - only discovered it recently:
[asin]B001APFIOC[/asin]
Just discovered Magnard's 4th Symphony (Sanderling recording on BIS) and have been utterly blown away by it! Like other compositions of his, it sounds unlike no-one else and its style is difficult to describe, with grand, quasi-Brucknerian paragraphs alongside fresh, unhackneyed imitations of folk music. It's all held together by Magnard's masterly and unique sense of harmony and orchestration. I found the ending, with its awesomely majestic chorale dying away into tranquility, to be particularly moving. Magnard's 3rd Symphony is often thought of as his finest but I prefer the 4th overall.
Quote from: kyjo on May 13, 2018, 08:07:19 PM
Just discovered Magnard's 4th Symphony (Sanderling recording on BIS) and have been utterly blown away by it! Like other compositions of his, it sounds unlike no-one else and its style is difficult to describe, with grand, quasi-Brucknerian paragraphs alongside fresh, unhackneyed imitations of folk music. It's all held together by Magnard's masterly and unique sense of harmony and orchestration. I found the ending, with its awesomely majestic chorale dying away into tranquility, to be particularly moving. Magnard's 3rd Symphony is often thought of as his finest but I prefer the 4th overall.
The 4th is also my favorite. I think it's the most eloquent and profound among the 4. Magnard was reaching a more developed style with this work. I have the recording by Ossonce and BBC Scottish S.O. (Hyperion). A great performance too.
The 4th is a great symphony. I like the 3rd just as much, though. But as a musical edifice, the 4th is stronger and more cogent. I think Ossonce is better in the final movement. The sense of heroic desperation, of only just getting safely on the other side of the abyss is more compellingly communicated.
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 14, 2018, 08:47:45 PM
The 4th is a great symphony. I like the 3rd just as much, though. But as a musical edifice, the 4th is stronger and more cogent. I think Ossonce is better in the final movement. The sense of heroic desperation, of only just getting safely on the other side of the abyss is more compellingly communicated.
Interesting. What about the rendition under Plasson? I'm not familiar with that performance yet.
Neither am I. It's on YouTube. All the reviews agree that it was superseded by the Sanderling and Ossonce recordings. Still, worth a try!
I'm loyal to the Plasson, which has a special quality to it. I have his boxed set of the symphonies.mmaybe I'm influenced by my first encounter with Magnard which was with Plasson's LP of Symphony 4 on EMI coupled with the moving 'Chant Funebre' - a wonderful LP. No.4 is my favourite but No.3 is excellent as well and I like Ansermet's recording (see above).
I very much like the opening of the 3rd symphony (so austere and mysterious!) as well as the middle two movements, but I found the finale to be a bit of a let-down. Also deserving of praise is the dramatic Hymne à la justice, with its thrillingly impetuous opening.
Quote from: kyjo on May 15, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
I very much like the opening of the 3rd symphony (so austere and mysterious!) as well as the middle two movements, but I found the finale to be a bit of a let-down. Also deserving of praise is the dramatic Hymne à la justice, with its thrillingly impetuous opening.
We think alike... The finale of No. 3 is the weakest of the lot. That's why I said No. 4 is more cogent. And that Hymn to Justice is terrific.
Quite frankly, having heard Magnard's 4th Symphony some minutes ago, I have to put it top on my list. A really valedictory, noble symphony, the most eloquent and transcendent Gallic swansong regarding symphonies. Magnard suspected his death was close and wanted to leave us his best creation before that IMO (I don't know Guercoeur yet). An epic French symphony. A firm masterpiece. What a work.
I wish he would have written a fifth symphony in the also epic E-flat minor key. I would have loved to hear something like that for sure.
Yes, it's terrific, isn't it? Which performance? Curiously enough I love the Sanderling in the first three movements, but prefer the Ossonce in the final one (there is more at stake, in the end some sort of tranquility is attained only just).
I heard the one on BIS (I think it's Sanderling). Perhaps the benchmark performance (?).
Yes, Sanderling is on Bis, Ossonce on Hyperion. Both are excellent.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 04, 2020, 12:22:36 PM
Magnard suspected his death was close
Eh? Magnard writing a symphony in 1912-13 foresaw that World War I was going to lead to him having a gunfight with Germans?
Quote from: Madiel on December 04, 2020, 03:21:26 PM
Eh? Magnard writing a symphony in 1912-13 foresaw that World War I was going to lead to him having a gunfight with Germans?
Yes, I find that a bit of curious remark as well. I don't see how anyone could have had the foresight to know that they will be having a standoff with the Germans.
Quote from: Madiel on December 04, 2020, 03:21:26 PM
Eh? Magnard writing a symphony in 1912-13 foresaw that World War I was going to lead to him having a gunfight with Germans?
I feel that in his 4th Symphony. It's what it conveys to me. A farewell. A very subjective and personal point of view of mine.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 04, 2020, 04:09:01 PM
I feel that in his 4th Symphony. It's what it conveys to me. A farewell. A very subjective and personal point of view of mine.
More like a view coloured by the hindsight of knowing when Magnard died.
I'm sure there are some composers that consciously choose to do farewell works, because they know they're old/ill and on the way out. But there's simply no way that Magnard is one of them. No-one at the premiere was reacting by thinking "gosh, what a farewell work from a composer who's going to die soon".
And you didn't present it as a 'subjective and personal point of view', or I wouldn't have said anything. You presented it as Magnard's artistic reaction to his own impending death.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 04, 2020, 04:09:01 PM
I feel that in his 4th Symphony. It's what it conveys to me. A farewell. A very subjective and personal point of view of mine.
Sure, I sometimes hear things like this as well. Like, for example, the
Lento movement in Schnittke's 8th symphony. To me, it is, in a sense, a musical letter of resignation from this world. The same with Arnold's 9th finale. Also, much of Mahler's 9th could be interpreted this way.
What do you think about the Symphony No. 4?
Orchestra: Orchestre du Capitole de Toulouse
Conductor: Michel Plasson
Quote from: W.A. Mozart on May 11, 2023, 08:09:54 AMWhat do you think about the Symphony No. 4?
Orchestra: Orchestre du Capitole de Toulouse
Conductor: Michel Plasson
Fabulous! A deeply moving and eloquent work. Plasson's performance is first-rate. I had the wonderful LP with 'Chant Funebre' included.
I got the Hyperion cycle of the symphonies recently. No opinion as of yet.
I got that set last year but haven't listened enough to form an opinion on the symphonies yet either.
Quote from: vers la flamme on May 11, 2023, 02:52:15 PMI got the Hyperion cycle of the symphonies recently. No opinion as of yet.
Awaiting the Great Hyperion Streaming Revolution, here. Will listen with interest!
Quote from: foxandpeng on May 13, 2023, 08:32:51 AMAwaiting the Great Hyperion Streaming Revolution, here. Will listen with interest!
Robert Simpson chamber music
Being able listen to his symphonies at work and not just home
Vaughan Williams symphonies, keep seeing Vandermolen and others posting those recordings
Angela Hewitt at work and not just home
Florestan Trio
Hamelin
Herrick
Hough
Raphael Ensemble
and so many more that I can't even think of... oh yeah don't forget one of the finest Shostakovich SQ cycles is on the hyperion label.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0MjA0NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6ODAwLCJ3aXRob3V0RW5sYXJnZW1lbnQiOnRydWV9LCJ0b0Zvcm1hdCI6ImpwZWciLCJqcGVnIjp7InF1YWxpdHkiOjY1fX0sInRpbWVzdGFtcCI6MjAxOX0=)
Sorry, I'm just getting excited. :)
Quote from: DavidW on May 13, 2023, 09:05:02 AMRobert Simpson chamber music
Being able listen to his symphonies at work and not just home
Vaughan Williams symphonies, keep seeing Vandermolen and others posting those recordings
Angela Hewitt at work and not just home
Florestan Trio
Hamelin
Herrick
Hough
Raphael Ensemble
and so many more that I can't even think of... oh yeah don't forget one of the finest Shostakovich SQ cycles is on the hyperion label.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0MjA0NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6ODAwLCJ3aXRob3V0RW5sYXJnZW1lbnQiOnRydWV9LCJ0b0Zvcm1hdCI6ImpwZWciLCJqcGVnIjp7InF1YWxpdHkiOjY1fX0sInRpbWVzdGFtcCI6MjAxOX0=)
Sorry, I'm just getting excited. :)
Me too!
**drools**
Quote from: DavidW on May 13, 2023, 09:05:02 AMRobert Simpson chamber music
Being able listen to his symphonies at work and not just home
Vaughan Williams symphonies, keep seeing Vandermolen and others posting those recordings
Angela Hewitt at work and not just home
Florestan Trio
Hamelin
Herrick
Hough
Raphael Ensemble
and so many more that I can't even think of... oh yeah don't forget one of the finest Shostakovich SQ cycles is on the hyperion label.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0MjA0NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6ODAwLCJ3aXRob3V0RW5sYXJnZW1lbnQiOnRydWV9LCJ0b0Zvcm1hdCI6ImpwZWciLCJqcGVnIjp7InF1YWxpdHkiOjY1fX0sInRpbWVzdGFtcCI6MjAxOX0=)
Sorry, I'm just getting excited. :)
Yes to several of these. Although I already own about half of the Florestan Trio's ouevre on CD, and some Raphael Ensemble as well.
But I'll be making a beeline for the Simpson.
I have not heard a single note yet of Magnard's music, but I am planning on exploring it. I will likely get the Sanderling set of symphonies, along with the 4 disc complete chamber music set (if I can find it). It is a challenge right now with the Canada Post strike still ongoing.
However, these Naxos recordings of the symphonies and other orchestral works haven't been talked about yet. Has anyone heard them and can comment to their quality?
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODcxMjQ1NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1Nzg3NzQyMzh9)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODY1ODU5MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1Njg2NTA4Njl9)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODc3MDU2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODU2NDM2MTJ9)
I guess I have my answer.
I'm sure there was someone who tried them. But who that was or whether they are around right now to leap into answering your question, I've no idea.
There are also at least a couple of reviews available. Noting that schools of thought vary around here about whether reviews have any value.
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on December 16, 2024, 06:27:59 AMI guess I have my answer.
Haven't heard them. Have you heard the Plasson recordings on EMI (originally). Not having listen to any Magnard for a while, I seem to have fondest memories of them.
Long out of print, I suspect
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51hGtZbOBIL._SX522_.jpg)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 16, 2024, 11:36:03 AMHaven't heard them. Have you heard the Plasson recordings on EMI (originally). Not having listen to any Magnard for a while, I seem to have fondest memories of them.
Long out of print, I suspect
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51hGtZbOBIL._SX522_.jpg)
No, I have not heard the Plasson. I haven't heard anything yet from Magnard. But am curious as he came from the D'Indy/Franck school of symphonic writing.
I have heard great things about Plasson and Sanderling for the performance of the symphonies, but there weren't any comments (yet) regarding these performances.
Your postal strike is a great excuse to try streaming, unless they are stopping electrons at the border. :)
I tend to purchase things (either download if they supply a booklet or physical media) but not before I have listened to it streaming.
There's also Ossonce on Hyperion, but I vaguely remember finding them less engaging than Plasson (more atmospheric) or Sanderling (more strict).
Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 16, 2024, 11:44:26 AMYour postal strike is a great excuse to try streaming, unless they are stopping electrons at the border. :)
Yes, the damn strike! Indeed, I do some "spot" streaming, especially to sample things.
Was the strike preceded by other labor actions? Two months ago I order a box set from a Canadian seller. It took a month before it arrived at U.S. Customs, then it was delivered in 2 days. I don't think of CanadaPost as being generally inefficient (I lived in Calgary for a year and a half).
None I'm aware of.
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on December 14, 2024, 04:39:19 AMI have not heard a single note yet of Magnard's music, but I am planning on exploring it. I will likely get the Sanderling set of symphonies, along with the 4 disc complete chamber music set (if I can find it). It is a challenge right now with the Canada Post strike still ongoing.
However, these Naxos recordings of the symphonies and other orchestral works haven't been talked about yet. Has anyone heard them and can comment to their quality?
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODcxMjQ1NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1Nzg3NzQyMzh9)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODY1ODU5MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1Njg2NTA4Njl9)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODc3MDU2OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODU2NDM2MTJ9)
I haven't heard any of these recordings, but I've pretty much got all the Magnard I need now as I have purchased the Thomas Sanderling performances on BIS. I don't know the Plasson recordings, but this Ossonce set on Hyperion has served me well for more than a decade now:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/713dBDvyOXL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Only recently have I got the itch to try some other performances and Sanderling's come highly recommended. What I like about the Ossonce is their lyricism. He plays this music beautifully and, perhaps, sometimes, it's really not what the music calls for, but...that's where Sanderling comes into play as I've read he's very much the yin to Ossonce's yang.
Thanks
@Vox Maris. I did order the Sanderling/BIS for the 4 symphonies, while I ordered the Bollon/Naxos miscellaneous orchestral works disc.
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on December 18, 2024, 04:05:08 PMThanks @Vox Maris. I did order the Sanderling/BIS for the 4 symphonies, while I ordered the Bollon/Naxos miscellaneous orchestral works disc.
I wanted to point out
@Franco_Manitobain that the miscellaneous orchestral works are fantastic. This is the disc I own:
(https://i.discogs.com/vS8g-vp-CllOyKoYJwO3hIQXEL3qir1IA0TvHaYKAeo/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEwODgx/MDkwLTE2OTExODA1/ODItMTgwMS5qcGVn.jpeg)
The
Hymne à la justice is a ferocious work that will leave you on the edge of your seat!
Quote from: Vox Maris on December 19, 2024, 06:28:10 PMI wanted to point out @Franco_Manitobain that the miscellaneous orchestral works are fantastic. This is the disc I own:
(https://i.discogs.com/vS8g-vp-CllOyKoYJwO3hIQXEL3qir1IA0TvHaYKAeo/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEwODgx/MDkwLTE2OTExODA1/ODItMTgwMS5qcGVn.jpeg)
The Hymne à la justice is a ferocious work that will leave you on the edge of your seat!
absolute agreement about the music and indeed this is a fine disc all round. Which makes me lament (all over again!) at the way the Timpoani label has disappeared and the recordings don't appear under licence anywhere else - a real waste.......
Quote from: Roasted Swan on December 24, 2024, 02:31:01 AMabsolute agreement about the music and indeed this is a fine disc all round. Which makes me lament (all over again!) at the way the Timpani label has disappeared and the recordings don't appear under licence anywhere else - a real waste.......
Absolutely agree with you. Timpani was such a fine label and it makes me wonder
why they couldn't sustain their label. Too bad another record company like Outhere Music didn't buy them out --- that way we, at least, have their catalog (or some of it) still in-print.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on December 24, 2024, 02:31:01 AMabsolute agreement about the music and indeed this is a fine disc all round. Which makes me lament (all over again!) at the way the Timpoani label has disappeared and the recordings don't appear under licence anywhere else - a real waste.......
As far as I know, Timpani records are now distributed by Naive, and seem at least some of the catalog is available for download or streaming (including this release).
Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 24, 2024, 07:07:13 AMAs far as I know, Timpani records are now distributed by Naive, and seem at least some of the catalog is available for download or streaming (including this release).
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Of course that doesn't change the fact that they are no longer producing new recordings, which is a shame because a lot of what they did was previously unrecorded repertoire.
Recently I was revisiting Magnard's quirky and inventive Cello Sonata in A major (1908-10) in this excellent recording:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2733a6e3b75c78047949c394751)
Magnard's symphonies all have their quirky elements, but these come to the fore even more prominently in his chamber works, especially the Cello Sonata. While fundamentally late-romantic in style, Magnard's music successfully avoids any clichés and always keeps the listener guessing as to what will come next. His use of rhythm is consistently interesting and infectious - e.g. the playful dotted-rhythm motif in the first movement. I was following along with the score, and noticed that one of the themes in the first movement (which has a vaguely "exotic" flavor) is wittily marked alla d'Indy! ;D In typical Magnard fashion, the brief scherzo contains a middle section which a strong rustic flavor. The Funèbre slow movement, in the distant key of B-flat minor, provides the dramatic center of gravity of the work. And the finale brings the work to an effervescent, virtuosic conclusion!
Magnard's output may have been relatively small, and his untimely (yet heroic!) death was certainly a great loss to 20th century music. But the output he did leave us is fastidiously crafted, stylistically singular, and not lacking in emotional depth. Like Fauré's later music, Magnard's may be a bit elusive to grasp at first, but it almost always gains in approachability and stature with repeated listening.
Stop the presses everyone! Did I just listen to the greatest piano trio of all time?
Omg!
Magnard's Piano Trio in F minor, op. 18
WOW
Move over Castelnuovo-Tedesco string quartets, Magnard's Piano Trio has just hopped over you for discovery of 2025.
Cross-posted from the Opera thread:
Quote(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1J234W++iL._SL1500_.jpg)
First, lets' get straight to the unimportant: the absurd star billing given Hildegard Behrens on the cover. She has only a small role in the first act, never appears in the long second act, and has a leading part for about 12 minutes in the third act. The main character is of course Guercoeur, a bass (the admirable José van Dam).
Second, Guercoeur rivals Pelléas et Mélisande for non-action dullness. I'm talking about the non-plot only (the music is lovely). Guercoeur has died in battle. He's in Heaven but longs for his wife so he gets a furlough to get back to earth. Unfortunately for him his wife Giselle is now paired with his best friend, Heurtal. Betrayal, remorse, forgiveness, general wringing of hands. Disillusioned, Guercoeur goes back to heaven, where he is treated to a lengthy preach from the goddess Truth.
It's a symbolist text concocted by Magnard himself. Apart from Guercoeur, Giselle and Heurtal, all the characters are immaterial: Truth, Goodness, Beauty, Suffering, Ghost of a Woman, Ghost of a Virgin, Spirit of a Poet (soloists), Illusions (chorus). Magnard titled it a « Tragédie (drama) en musique ». It lasts a little over 3 hours.
The music is beautiful, but in the first two acts it's all slowish, slow or slower. There's a modicum of turmoil at the beginning of Act 3 when the town's folks and Heurtal blame Guercoeur for the war that has brought famine and devastation to his city. Guercoeur is killed (again). He goes back up to meet the goddess Truth, who prophesies that « Work will enable Man to conquer poverty, science will enable him to conquer pain and he will combine Reason and Faith. Behold the dawn of a new age (...) which will liberate you from hunger, in which your awareness, suffused with light, will develop in an atmosphere of goodness, in which your victorious spirit, the limit of matter, will comprehend with ease the Laws of the Universe. Then Earth will have completed its circle, Man his destiny ». Amen (yawn).
There really should be an orchestral arrangement of the best bits. The opera has many superb orchestral preludes and interludes. Paris' Opéra Comique wouldn't stage it because there were too many of them (among other things). A Guercoeur suite or symphony would be nice to have.
My advice: stick to the symphonies (and chamber music), and petition your local orchestra to arrange a suite from the preludes and interludes.
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on January 22, 2025, 10:57:45 AMMove over Castelnuovo-Tedesco string quartets, Magnard's Piano Trio has just hopped over you for discovery of 2025.
You really must stop putting things on my to-do list, it's long enough as it is...
Actually Magnard was already on there. I own a recording of the string quartet, and did start listening to more but it got put on pause when I decided there was a limit to how many composers I could practically explore at the same time.
Quote from: Madiel on January 22, 2025, 05:17:03 PMYou really must stop putting things on my to-do list, it's long enough as it is...
Actually Magnard was already on there. I own a recording of the string quartet, and did start listening to more but it got put on pause when I decided there was a limit to how many composers I could practically explore at the same time.
I'll be test driving the string quartet tomorrow.
the string quartet is a remarkable piece but not for everyone. It's very long but not as unified as e.g. the Franck qt.
Interestingly there are at least 4 quartets in e minor by composers who wrote only a single string quartet. And this is not a very common key for quartets, among well known quartet composers only Mendelssohn and Beethoven wrote each one in that key (Boccherini has one as well but it's not well known).
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on January 22, 2025, 10:57:45 AMMove over Castelnuovo-Tedesco string quartets, Magnard's Piano Trio has just hopped over you for discovery of 2025.
Again, what a marvelous piano trio, especially that final movement! It is of such quality, I could surely see Brahms nod and smile with approval.
Also, the quintet for winds and piano is quite lovely. Alert for this one goes to
@Karl Henning , as I know he might appreciate this one (if he hasn't heard it already)
Disc 2
MagnardPiano Trio in F minor, Op. 18 (1905)
Quintet for flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon and piano, Op. 8 (1894)Solenne Païdassi, violon
Laurent Wagschale, piano
Camille Thomas, violoncelle
Ensemble Initium, quintet
Timpani label
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/712+odUrubL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61-cnGBn6qL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
The recent discussions about Magnard made me want to continue exploring his symphonies. I listened to #4 today, and it impressed me the most of any Magnard I've yet heard. The first movement sounds almost like a Star Wars soundtrack. I think I'll listen to that movement one more time before I go to sleep.
(https://i.discogs.com/OZL--vOo6H5Z3d65SGR9v5L4SLcJfYscCPHzXWeM2sc/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:521/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTk3NzE2/MTItMTYwODI2ODcx/NC00NjUwLmpwZWc.jpeg)
Quote from: Mapman on January 23, 2025, 09:09:11 PMThe recent discussions about Magnard made me want to continue exploring his symphonies. I listened to #4 today, and it impressed me the most of any Magnard I've yet heard. The first movement sounds almost like a Star Wars soundtrack. I think I'll listen to that movement one more time before I go to sleep.
(https://i.discogs.com/OZL--vOo6H5Z3d65SGR9v5L4SLcJfYscCPHzXWeM2sc/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:521/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTk3NzE2/MTItMTYwODI2ODcx/NC00NjUwLmpwZWc.jpeg)
Magnard is fantastic, but, like so many other composers, I need to spend more time with his music. He
is a remarkable composer, though.
Quote from: ChamberNut on January 22, 2025, 10:56:13 AMStop the presses everyone! Did I just listen to the greatest piano trio of all time?
Omg!
Magnard's Piano Trio in F minor, op. 18
WOW
It certainly is a great piece, full of all the characteristics of Magnard's mature style. The CPO recording (coupled with the Violin Sonata) is really superb, to my ears.
Quote from: Mapman on January 23, 2025, 09:09:11 PMThe recent discussions about Magnard made me want to continue exploring his symphonies. I listened to #4 today, and it impressed me the most of any Magnard I've yet heard. The first movement sounds almost like a Star Wars soundtrack. I think I'll listen to that movement one more time before I go to sleep.
(https://i.discogs.com/OZL--vOo6H5Z3d65SGR9v5L4SLcJfYscCPHzXWeM2sc/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:521/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTk3NzE2/MTItMTYwODI2ODcx/NC00NjUwLmpwZWc.jpeg)
Magnard's 4th Symphony is a masterpiece IMO, full of complex and colorful orchestration, deeply felt emotion, and a compelling "visionary" quality. I won't deny that the transcendent chorale in the coda of the finale often brings me to tears. I must admit that the only recording I've heard is the Mälmo SO/Sanderling one on BIS - I should make comparisons with Ossonce, Bollon, and Plasson.
My reference for the 3rd symphony is from Ansermet and the Suisse Romande. It's head and shoulders above the competition. For the other symphonies I can't decide btw Ossonce and Plasson. I haven't listened to them in years.
My newly-purchased Naxos disc of symphonies 3 and 4 is my first exposure to Magnard, but I'm highly impressed so far.
Truly remarkable symphonies indeed. Magnard's 4th is one of the very greatest French symphonies, along with Roussel's 2nd, Dukas's, Bizet's and Saint-Saëns's 3rd in my view.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 20, 2025, 06:58:18 PMTruly remarkable symphonies indeed. Magnard's 4th is one of the very greatest French symphonies, along with Roussel's 2nd, Dukas's, Bizet's and Saint-Saëns's 3rd in my view.
FWIW, I actually like Saint-Saëns'
Symphony in F major, "Urbs Roma" more than the more popular 3rd. What do you think about this particular symphony, Cesar?
As for the Magnard symphonies, they're fantastic! I plan on revisiting them at some juncture as I seem to be some kind of symphony listening crusade at the moment.
Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on April 20, 2025, 07:33:50 PMFWIW, I actually like Saint-Saëns' Symphony in F major, "Urbs Roma" more than the more popular 3rd. What do you think about this particular symphony, Cesar?
A formidable piece despite being an early composition. The slow movement is very special to me, particularly, with its air of an intriguing march. It could easily be used like the music for a detective series.
Magnard... After having known (mostly) his symphonic music for a decade now, he has slowly become one of the (in that imposing, Brucknerian sense) most enigmatic composers to me.
Several members have already mentioned the (at least on these pages :-) famous opening chorale of the 3rd Symphony as one of the most memorable moments of their Magnard experience. Which leads me directly to the "enigmatic" impression his music left on me when I first heard it... At first that chorale struck me as oddly primitive and bland, kind of lacking any substance and color to it... But over time, I began perceiving it in the context of the starkly contrasting passage that immediately follows it and this slowly began "redefining" my perception of it, imbuing that chorale with a sense of, again, "enigmatic", archaic, mystery.
It is one of several examples of a quite rare quality which I began to admire in Magnard's music, this dignified gesture of going "all or nothing", of daring to open a symphony with bare, washed-out granite, and then wagering the perception of that whole opening on its relation to the overarching whole of which it is a part... and then, delivering on that wager with his almost arrogant kind of confidence.
Wondering if this is just me or if anybody else can relate to this when listening to Magnard...
Quote from: GoranTch on April 24, 2025, 02:57:07 AMMagnard... After having known (mostly) his symphonic music for a decade now, he has slowly become one of the (in that imposing, Brucknerian sense) most enigmatic composers to me.
Several members have already mentioned the (at least on these pages :-) famous opening chorale of the 3rd Symphony as one of the most memorable moments of their Magnard experience. Which leads me directly to the "enigmatic" impression his music left on me when I first heard it... At first that chorale struck me as oddly primitive and bland, kind of lacking any substance and color to it... But over time, I began perceiving it in the context of the starkly contrasting passage that immediately follows it and this slowly began "redefining" my perception of it, imbuing that chorale with a sense of, again, "enigmatic", archaic, mystery.
It is one of several examples of a quite rare quality which I began to admire in Magnard's music, this dignified gesture of going "all or nothing", of daring to open a symphony with bare, washed-out granite, and then wagering the perception of that whole opening on its relation to the overarching whole of which it is a part... and then, delivering on that wager with his almost arrogant kind of confidence.
Wondering if this is just me or if anybody else can relate to this when listening to Magnard...
Great description of your listening experience! I can't say I know the Magnard symphonies well enough to relate to what you write or not - but you have prompted me to revisit them so thankyou!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 24, 2025, 03:06:33 AMGreat description of your listening experience! I can't say I know the Magnard symphonies well enough to relate to what you write or not - but you have prompted me to revisit them so thankyou!
Very happy to hear my description of how I perceive Magnard prompted you to revisit his music. It most certainly deserves it. I am still hoping to hear a live performance of a Magnard symphony in Berlin, but I don't remember having seen his name on a concert poster for the almost 20 years I have lived in the city.
Quote from: GoranTch on April 24, 2025, 02:57:07 AMMagnard... After having known (mostly) his symphonic music for a decade now, he has slowly become one of the (in that imposing, Brucknerian sense) most enigmatic composers to me.
Several members have already mentioned the (at least on these pages :-) famous opening chorale of the 3rd Symphony as one of the most memorable moments of their Magnard experience. Which leads me directly to the "enigmatic" impression his music left on me when I first heard it... At first that chorale struck me as oddly primitive and bland, kind of lacking any substance and color to it... But over time, I began perceiving it in the context of the starkly contrasting passage that immediately follows it and this slowly began "redefining" my perception of it, imbuing that chorale with a sense of, again, "enigmatic", archaic, mystery.
It is one of several examples of a quite rare quality which I began to admire in Magnard's music, this dignified gesture of going "all or nothing", of daring to open a symphony with bare, washed-out granite, and then wagering the perception of that whole opening on its relation to the overarching whole of which it is a part... and then, delivering on that wager with his almost arrogant kind of confidence.
Wondering if this is just me or if anybody else can relate to this when listening to Magnard...
What a poetic and accurate description of the opening of Magnard's 3rd Symphony! I think Magnard achieves a great balance in his music between a certain "elusiveness" and accessibility, and this is what keeps me returning to his music with continued interest. He's likely my fourth favorite French composer after Poulenc, Saint-Saëns, and Ravel (with Roussel contesting that position).
A live performance of the Symphony No. 3 played by The Orchestra NOW under Leon Botstein:
It's the only live performance of any work by Magnard I'm aware of, and being that a rarity, I wanted to post it here.
Their channel also have other quite interesting, rarely performed works like Dawson's Negro Folk Symphony!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 23, 2025, 12:42:36 PMA live performance of the Symphony No. 3 played by The Orchestra NOW under Leon Botstein:
It's the only live performance of any work by Magnard I'm aware of, and being that a rarity, I wanted to post it here.
Their channel also have other quite interesting, rarely performed works like Dawson's Negro Folk Symphony!
Interesting repertoire and great to have it available like this but I must admit I rarely find Botstein to be the most inspiring or interesting interpreter of music.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 23, 2025, 11:18:39 PMInteresting repertoire and great to have it available like this but I must admit I rarely find Botstein to be the most inspiring or interesting interpreter of music.
I share your sentiments, but it's what there is for now.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 23, 2025, 12:42:36 PMA live performance of the Symphony No. 3 played by The Orchestra NOW under Leon Botstein:
It's the only live performance of any work by Magnard I'm aware of, and being that a rarity, I wanted to post it here.
Their channel also have other quite interesting, rarely performed works like Dawson's Negro Folk Symphony!
Amazing... and I already thought I will most likely never see a professionally recorded and filmed concert of a Magnard symphony... it is a bit under-rehearsed, but all things considering, I won't complain.
Quote from: GoranTch on September 16, 2025, 04:49:19 AMAmazing... and I already thought I will most likely never see a professionally recorded and filmed concert of a Magnard symphony... it is a bit under-rehearsed, but all things considering, I won't complain.
I'd love to see a performance of his String Quartet or Fourth Symphony the next time, whether on that channel or other.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 16, 2025, 04:15:38 PMI'd love to see a performance of his String Quartet or Fourth Symphony the next time, whether on that channel or other.
What I wouldn't give to hear, say, the Pittsburgh Symphony under Manfred Honeck perform the glorious Fourth Symphony! Unlikely, of course, but they have programmed less-standard symphonies recently like Schmidt's Fourth and Korngold's in F-sharp.
Having known the symphonies for many years I've finally stumbled on the Chamber Music, the Quintet for Piano and Winds. Music for winds is often charming and witty, but this work is symphonic in scope, with satisfying contrapuntal development and dramatic harmonic gestures. I've listened to two recordings (Les Vents Francais from Warner and Ensemble Initium on Timpani. I find both to the excellent in every way.