Any recommendations for Schubert second piano trio D929 (op.100) preferebly not out of print ?
Thanks
The Beaux recorded a very fine set when they were still in their prime (1960s circa), and it's readily available. I'm not as familiar with those works as i'd like (yet), but i wanted to pinch in anyway.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on May 18, 2007, 09:51:51 AM
The Beaux recorded a very fine set when they were still in their prime (1960s circa), and it's readily available. I'm not as familiar with those works as i'd like (yet), but i wanted to pinch in anyway.
I like the Beaux Arts Trio in this also. They still sound fresh, which is not always the case when relistening.
HIP: non-HIP:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8035233.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BbNPt7kUL._SS500_.jpg)
historical:
(http://www.abeillemusique.com/images/references/gem9141.jpg)
Q
The very recent 2-CD set from the Capuçon brothers, with Frank Braley. It has all the Schubert piano trio music, in excellent recordings, with excellent playing. Give it a go for 20 years, then go back and look again.
Hip and OOP, but still available at reasonable (cheap) prices at amazon: L'Archibudelli before they were L'Archibudelli!
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/61LuE1yJXyL._SS500_.jpg)
Modern, excellent quality, and easy to find at good prices: The Florestan Trio
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a6/ba/ef02729fd7a0db0e1a23f010.L.jpg)
I like a dark horse: Trio de Trieste. They play that slow movement deliciously.
I also like Que's Historical pick: Serkin/Busch. :)
This is such a great work, I'd like to have ten recordings of it.
Forgot to mention that when going for HIP with the Gaia Scienza - it's a stunning and deeply satisfying performance - best deal is the double CD with the other trio:
(http://www.winterandwinter.com/typo3temp/pics/cab1f494d6.jpg)
Q
Quote from: Harry Collier on May 18, 2007, 10:23:50 AM
The very recent 2-CD set from the Capuçon brothers, with Frank Braley. It has all the Schubert piano trio music, in excellent recordings, with excellent playing. Give it a go for 20 years, then go back and look again.
Interesting recommendation, will check it out!
I would be most interested in any comments on these:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3314161.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8098463.jpg)
Q
My favorite is the version of Adolf and Hermann Busch with Serkin. It is old, but very dramatic, and they are sublime in the Andante.
The version of Istomin, Stern and Rose is good but Istomin is not Serkin, in special in the Andante.
The version of the Beaux Arts Trio is very classic and balanced, but seems a little pale compared to the other two.
I never liked much the version of Menuhin, Gendron and Hephzibah Menuhin.
I have been told that the version of Rubinstein, Szeryng and Fournier is superb, but I never had the occasion to hear it.
Quote from: Que on May 19, 2007, 01:06:24 AM
Interesting recommendation, will check it out!
I would be most interested in any comments on these:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3314161.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8098463.jpg)
Q
The Schiff, Perenyi and Shiokawa looks quite promising. I really liked the Beethoven Cello music album by Schiff and Perenyi.
I don't know the Trio Wanderer.
Another HIP recording that I'm still trying to obtain includes Beethoven's Archduke Trio with Schubert's Trio in E flat major.
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Apr02/Beethoven_Schubert_trios.jpg)
Another vote for the Beaux Arts Trio
Oh wait snips you're not the one that doesn't like BAT so check this out, my first set:
[asin]B00000417B[/asin]
Quote from: haydnfan on May 15, 2011, 08:50:28 AM
Oh wait snips you're not the one that doesn't like BAT so check this out, my first set:
[asin]B00000417B[/asin]
weeeeeeeeeell ::)... ;D...
Quote from: snyprrr on May 15, 2011, 10:06:05 AM
weeeeeeeeeell ::)... ;D...
Ah okay Florestan Trio check it out! ;D
Quote from: haydnfan on May 15, 2011, 11:25:26 AM
Ah okay Florestan Trio check it out! ;D
I haven't heard those, but I've never heard a bad recording from the Florestan Trio.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2011, 07:25:26 AM
I heard samples of the Gaia Scienza's Brahms PQ. WOW!! Who else plays like them?? :o
There are probably others, but their big advantage over everyone else is the outstanding recording by Winter & Winter. This is the best sounding recording I can think of, and without doubt helps the band (who are pretty dadgum good anyway).
8)
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on May 16, 2011, 07:49:00 AM
There are probably others, but their big advantage over everyone else is the outstanding recording by Winter & Winter. This is the best sounding recording I can think of, and without doubt helps the band (who are pretty dadgum good anyway).
8)
Yea, I heard a slithery juiciness in that recording that was impressive.
If there is a Thread, go ahead and attached me, please.
I'd like some off-the-wall recommends please, so, yea, no you-know-who. ::)
I was curious about the L'Archibudelli(sic)/ Bylsma(sic),... the one that has both PTs on one disc.
Or, what about the Harmonia Mundi (two versions), or the Capucin(sic)Bros. on Virgin? Fontenay? (they get the highest marks for this issue) Harrell/Ashkenazy? ASV? BIS? TUP?
Frankly, I remember the famous bit from the vampire movie
The Hunger (anyone?) with David Bowie. It was, apparently, very slow there. I seem to recall hearing the BAT, who play it 'normal', and being waaay disappointed (man). How slow are you allowed to play it, or, who's your fav bizarro version of this MostFamousMusic?
If this were a Poll, it would be Secret, and would be, "How Many of You Groaned When You Say this Thread Title?".
I remember the Schubert from the Hunger, it was beautiful! Here are the performers (I googled them):Ralph Holmes, Raphael Wallfisch and Howard Shelley.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 20, 2011, 11:38:49 AM
I was curious about the L'Archibudelli(sic)/ Bylsma(sic),... the one that has both PTs on one disc.
Either one of two options here:
#1 - There is no such thing. The Bb trio (#1) is coupled with the Notturno which is a one movement trio piece. AFAIK (which is modestly far) they never did the Eb trio OR
#2 - Everything I know is wrong. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on May 20, 2011, 01:32:22 PM
Either one of two options here:
#1 - There is no such thing. The Bb trio (#1) is coupled with the Notturno which is a one movement trio piece. AFAIK (which is modestly far) they never did the Eb trio OR
#2 - Everything I know is wrong. :)
8)
Seriously, it's one of those Sony discs, and 'they' (the critics) were all upset because of the cuts, which is how they got both PTs on one disc.
I received the set today (Immerseel/L'Archibudelli) in the mail. There might be a confusion from different reissues perhaps...
Those two trios are on the first cd and the Notturno is on the cd with the Trout Quintet and Arpeggione sonata.
Quote from: haydnfan on May 20, 2011, 12:57:38 PM
I remember the Schubert from the Hunger, it was beautiful!
Not a trio, but Deneuve and Sarandon perform a famous duo there... :)
One of the best Op 100's I've heard was from a concert in Schwetzingen last year with Besuidenhout and Wispelwey and Mullova. It's very good, especially Wispelwey. The concert was recorded and uploaded and it's certainly worth seeking out.
Gaia Scienza's reading is very dark and almost edgy. I like it very much. You know, Schumann said that the |E flat trio is "an angry meteor blazing forth and outshining everything in the musical atmosphere of the time." Gaia Scienza play it like that.
There are also excellent oldies with Casals and his mates, and Busch Bros. with Serkin.
There's another special recording from Golub/Kaplan/Carr which puts back all the cuts made in the final movement. It's a very nice performance in its own rights, and those cuts amount to a lot of music which normally you don't hear, with unique combinations of the themes. The recording also contains a lovely performance of the Notturno, which Schubert intended for the E flat trio.
He didn't use the Noturno because he became captivated by a Swedish folksong (Se solen sjunker ) which he decide to integrate into the Andante (as a cello theme)
I never listen to Op 99.
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on May 20, 2011, 01:32:22 PM
Either one of two options here:
#1 - There is no such thing. The Bb trio (#1) is coupled with the Notturno which is a one movement trio piece. AFAIK (which is modestly far) they never did the Eb trio OR
#2 - Everything I know is wrong. :)
8)
The trios are in one disc, Gurn. The other contains the piano quintet, the Notturno and the Arpeggione sonata. The "set" is essentially these (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000029TB/?tag=goodmusicguideco) two (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000C3SB/?tag=goodmusicguideco) discs, plastic casing, booklets and all, residing in a slip case.
I ended up getting the Capucon/Virgin,... for the usual reasons $$$.
Schubert's Piano Trios seemed to have brought this thread back TTT! :D For years I just had the BAT 2-CD bargain w/ recordings from the 1960s - first question, did this group re-record these works later?
Quoted below is a post I left recently in
Gurn's classical thread; I just listened to D.898 from both of these groups and much preferred the PI performances of the Atlantis Trio; now the BAT are still quite excellent & the set is a super bargain, but their playing seemed more restrained to me and the recorded sound is just not as good.
So, now I'm thinking about obtaining another set of these works just to have at least 2 - :D
Some considerations are shown below, and I'm sure others exist - thus, just wanted to continue the discussion on these pieces here:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61NflLv-HdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Gn1fFBSaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515h3OL7rtL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jem-6eaxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dzWuGVMGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jROxgjypL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
QuoteSchubert, Franz - Piano Trios et al w/ the Atlantis Trio (Schroder on violin, Crawford on fortepiano, & Sutherland on cello); these are older recordings (1994 & 95) released on the Musica Omnia label - I've been collecting other discs w/ this group on Watchorn's label. Liner notes are excellent w/ a page on Conrad Graf (maker of the piano) & a page written by the restorer of the ca. 1835 Graf fortepiano #2148 - after 2 yrs of restoration the piano was obtained by Penelope Crawford in 1994.
Now I own these works in just a 2-disc collection w/ the BAT from the 1960s - this newer 2-disc offering (in a single double-disc jewel box size) offers superb integrated playing and great up-front sound; these works have just so much variety from beautiful slow melodies to grave and agitated (and dynamic) movements - the performers are beautifully integrated and the sound recording is excellent. Short review from MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Sept10/schubert_trios_mo0310.htm). For those wanting PI performances of the early Romantics, explore this label w/ the Atlantis Trio - :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-fsWXX6D/0/O/SchubertPTriosAtlantis.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Pp5CQQ%2B1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 23, 2011, 08:30:28 AM
Schubert's Piano Trios seemed to have brought this thread back TTT! :D For years I just had the BAT 2-CD bargain w/ recordings from the 1960s - first question, did this group re-record these works later?
Quoted below is a post I left recently in Gurn's classical thread; I just listened to D.898 from both of these groups and much preferred the PI performances of the Atlantis Trio; now the BAT are still quite excellent & the set is a super bargain, but their playing seemed more restrained to me and the recorded sound is just not as good.
So, now I'm thinking about obtaining another set of these works just to have at least 2 - :D
Some considerations are shown below, and I'm sure others exist - thus, just wanted to continue the discussion on these pieces here:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61NflLv-HdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Dave, I've owned the Schiff/Shiokawa/Prenyi set and had issues with the recording: the cello is too submerged and simply not audible enough for me. Ended up discarding it.
I've also owned the other volume of the Vienna Trio set on MDG and found the performance too airy and light. Not enough bite for me. Also discarded it.
Currently I own the BAT (Cohen edition) and again have problems with the inaudible cello. Will probably discard the set eventually.
Another recording I own is the D.929 from La Gaia Scienza and love it. Won't be discarding this disc! ;D
But the outstanding set for me is without question the Golub/Kaplan/Carr set. Best of everything, here. Great recording and a probing philosophy that brings a freshness and energy to the works that is endearing.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on May 23, 2011, 08:55:47 AM
Dave, I've owned the Schiff/Shiokawa/Prenyi set and had issues with the recording: the cello is too submerged and simply not audible enough for me. Ended up discarding it.
I've also owned the other volume of the Vienna Trio set on MDG and found the performance too airy and light. Not enough bite for me. Also discarded it.
Currently I own the BAT (Greenhouse edition) and again have problems with the inaudible cello. Will probably discard the set eventually.
Another recording I own is the D.929 from La Gaia Scienza and love it. Won't be discarding this disc! ;D
But the outstanding set for me is without question the Golub/Kaplan/Carr set. Best of everything, here. Great recording and a probing philosophy that brings a freshness and energy to the works that is endearing.
Hi
DD - thanks for the input; I have other recordings w/ Glub/Kaplan/Carr and enjoy tremendously. I'll go ahead and put this set of discs on my 'to buy' list! Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 23, 2011, 01:56:52 PM
Hi DD - thanks for the input; I have other recordings w/ Glub/Kaplan/Carr and enjoy tremendously. I'll go ahead and put this set of discs on my 'to buy' list! Dave :)
ok, so I've never acquainted myself with this Music. I have just listened to the Capucon Bros on Virgin.
First, I must say, that this Music sounds Symphonic, no? Symphonies for Piano Trio? At least that's what I'm hearing. Is it true that Schubert's not 'developing' in the usual manner? Something about him sounds so different than everybody else.
I listened to the long first mvmts. of both PTs first. My first impressions were that these two pieces mirror the 2 Piano Quartets of Mozart. 929 = 478, and 898 = 493. In other words, Schubert's 'famous' PT corresponds to the g-minor Mozart (are they both not more dramatic?), whilst the more major sounding Schubert PT1 sounds more like the more genial Eb Mozart work.
So, I take it that PT2 IS the 'famous' one, and the more dramatic and minor sounding one. PT1 sounded very much like skipping through the park (literally) by comparison, though, the opening of this piece 'sounds' very familiar to me (more movies?). Both of these 15min. mvmts. sound more like 'personal', or Romantic, Music, to me, more than anything else. When we played the said Mozart afterwards, it was clear that Mozart was dealing with a musical argument, whereas, IMHO, it appeared as though Schubert was dealing with emotional arguments. At least, in the Schubert, you have all these drawn out, soloist types of 'yearing' notes all over the place,
as if the always subliminal Mozatean undercurrent of I'm sure you know what I'm talking about! ???
Now, I don't know if it is this Virgin release, but I'm assuming that it's the music that has all these very particular piano roulades, that I haven't heard in H-M-Beeth. Is this Schubert's piano 'style'? I can see where the pianist is very important in these pieces. The strings don't seem as virtuoso? It is the pianist's show, really?
I also note the relatively laid back quality of the Music, but, I've heard that this particular Virgin recording is very low wattage (which is fine by me is such stormy music as No.2). I can tell that these players are playing waaay after the bar has closed, so to speak. The pianist, in particular, is very... not reticent... clinical? I'll say that this listen gives me the Stravinsky Effect, whatever that means (it's a very crisp listen, you know you are hearing a particular performance). They certainly let the music speak for itself, yet seemed to make every point along the way.
Schubert peppers No.2's first mvmt. with all these little, perfectly placed minor key chords, and you can tell that he's expressing real angst, at least, once again, it 'sounds' like it. Also, we noticed the 'butterflies at the social cocktail' sound of the Music, the very German 'air' that Schubert was breathing (specifically the
Notturno).
I can also see where something like Gaia Scienza would be the only way to go for these pieces. I'd really like to find that 2cd cheap. I can see that these pieces are the kinds where you'd want different recordings: there's just so much detail.
I like these PTs, and the String Quintet, much much more than the final SQ that I was whining about before.
Quote from: snyprrr on May 21, 2011, 07:11:18 AM
I ended up getting the Capucon/Virgin,... for the usual reasons $$$.
I like it. You can hear everything, and the group plays very crisply. I hear this is a very low wattage performance, but some have said that this Schubert stripped of the 20th century, so to speak (in the good way). Though I'm ignorant enough of the music, I can tell that this isn't the only performance you'd want. It's definitely a very very pleasant listen, very nice and mellow, and glittering.
Funny, Mandryka, I also never listen to the first trio D.898 - somehow I am just never inclined to put it on, despite its beauty.
Wasn't the Andante of D. 929 played in Kubrick's Barry Lyndon first, before The Hunger? Never mind, it's so wonderful it can serve both films - of course, both films are among other things about the decadence and corruption of the aristocracy, when one comes to think of it, though The Hunger is predicated upon the myth of Tithonus as well.
Apart from the Busch/Serkin version of D. 929, the classic, I have the fine Beethoven Trio (Berlin Classics) and Fortepiano Trio Florestan (Discover) - the latter sporting the original longer version of the finale. The latter performance is a bit crudely inflected at times and even poorly tuned, I only listen to it for the extended finale. I would like to praise Oistrakh, Knushevitzky and Oborin (Melodia LP) in this: they bring a bright effervescence to the exposition of the first movement until the big modulation leading to the waters of regret, as I think of this passage, after which the opening music can never be the same, there is tension - and anger/anguish even - in its return, finally resignation that seems to lead inevitably to the andante, where Knushevitsky moulds the theme with an inimitable aristocratic grace born of melancholia...etc etc - you get the idea; a certain grandezza cum morbidezza is the foundation of this interpretation. I believe it has been reissued in a huge box by Brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR6FIE95VzI&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Quote from: mjwal on May 24, 2011, 04:30:05 AM
Funny, Mandryka, I also never listen to the first trio D.898 - somehow I am just never inclined to put it on, despite its beauty.
Wasn't the Andante of D. 929 played in Kubrick's Barry Lyndon first, before The Hunger? Never mind, it's so wonderful it can serve both films - of course, both films are among other things about the decadence and corruption of the aristocracy, when one comes to think of it, though The Hunger is predicated upon the myth of Tithonus as well.
Apart from the Busch/Serkin version of D. 929, the classic, I have the fine Beethoven Trio (Berlin Classics) and Fortepiano Trio Florestan (Discover) - the latter sporting the original longer version of the finale. The latter performance is a bit crudely inflected at times and even poorly tuned, I only listen to it for the extended finale. I would like to praise Oistrakh, Knushevitzky and Oborin (Melodia LP) in this: they bring a bright effervescence to the exposition of the first movement until the big modulation leading to the waters of regret, as I think of this passage, after which the opening music can never be the same, there is tension - and anger/anguish even - in its return, finally resignation that seems to lead inevitably to the andante, where Knushevitsky moulds the theme with an inimitable aristocratic grace born of melancholia...etc etc - you get the idea; a certain grandezza cum morbidezza is the foundation of this interpretation. I believe it has been reissued in a huge box by Brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR6FIE95VzI&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Hahaha. Very strange. Good find. The comment on youtube is quite right (was it you?):
belle interprétation , tempo particulièrement lent ,avec une intensité expressive notable!
sans doute pas une version de référence , ne serait ce que du fait de la prise de son hélas médiocre , mais assurément une belle version à garder en éméoire (sic)
, aux coté des wanderer , capuçon et autres! merci pour cette belle découverte!Except maybe for the bit about Wanderer and Capucon, whom I haven't heard.
No, it wasn't me writing on YouTube - I write those (rarely) in English, and reserve my somewhat old-fashioned 19th C French for Amazon.fr, my German comments (more fluent) for its German equivalent. I don't know the Wanderer or Capuçon etc either. I am beginning to restrict my CD purchases (apart from jazz etc) to "new" music and very special "historical" recordings, I just can't fit in the nth recording of the Eroica etc, quite apart from the cost.
Here's something. HIP!
[asin] B003LY5FN4[/asin]
Quote from: milk on May 27, 2011, 04:58:30 PM
Here's something. HIP!
[asin] B003LY5FN4[/asin]
Yes it is. It's been being talked about, haven't heard it though. Have you done? Or are you inquiring? :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
The Hanover Band / Goodman - Hob 01 015 Symphony in D 4th mvmt - Finale: Presto
Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on May 27, 2011, 05:03:50 PM
Yes it is. It's been being talked about, haven't heard it though. Have you done? Or are you inquiring? :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
The Hanover Band / Goodman - Hob 01 015 Symphony in D 4th mvmt - Finale: Presto
Yes I have it and like it a lot. Actually I have all recordings by Atlantis. Their Mendelssohn is really great! I wonder if I shouldn't acquire the Immerseel?
Quote from: milk on May 27, 2011, 06:27:48 PM
Yes I have it and like it a lot. Actually I have all recordings by Atlantis. Their Mendelssohn is really great! I wonder if I shouldn't acquire the Immerseel?
I really should investigate the Atlantis Trio! :)
As for Immerseel et al - I would go for La Gaia Scienza (Winter & Winter) who include all repeats and are more inpired IMO. It's a more edgy and slightly "darker" reading though.
Q
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on May 27, 2011, 10:41:37 PM
I really should investigate the Atlantis Trio! :)
As for Immerseel et al - I would go for La Gaia Scienza (Winter & Winter) who include all repeats and are more inpired IMO. It's a more edgy and slightly "darker" reading though.
Q
Thanks! I'll check it out!
Quote from: snyprrr on May 23, 2011, 06:32:54 PM
I like it. You can hear everything, and the group plays very crisply. I hear this is a very low wattage performance, but some have said that this Schubert stripped of the 20th century, so to speak (in the good way). Though I'm ignorant enough of the music, I can tell that this isn't the only performance you'd want. It's definitely a very very pleasant listen, very nice and mellow, and glittering.
I've been really really enjoying the Virgin release (haha!). I can very well tell that this is an 'AfterHours' Session, and y'know?, it does sound a bit jazzy,... and I think it's the music and not the performance. What do I know?
I sure wish someone else could be a witness to this recording. I'd like to know what are some other 'mellow' recordings.
However, that Gaia thing seems to be the only way to go on this one.
I am also in search for the recording of D929, ever since The Hunger and getting the soundtrack CD in the early 90s.
I have recently tried 4 versions with the following results:
1. Serkin/Busch/Busch - They play the andante at the right pace, but unfortunately the sound quality is poor.
2. Schiff/Shiokawa/Perenyi - Interesting version, but the instruments are a bit distant and in the denser parts they sound blurred. This is especially noticeable when the piano starts the arpeggiations in the andante, where the individual notes drown in reverb.
3. Gaia Scienza - Very good sound quality, but they hurry a bit through the andante. There is more 'air' between the instruments. I wish they played it more like the Serkin/Busch/Busch. I might get used to this one.
4. Beaux Arts Trio - Good sound quality, although the piano was probably picked up too close and sounds much bigger than the strings. Overall a very good version. (this is the Philips double CD with BAT only, not the one with Grumiaux)
The challenge for me is getting a good interpretation in a recording of enough quality to give me the sense and illusion of "being there". There probably won't be one version that does it all, but two or three to be listened to depending on the mood.
Will have to try the Florestan and Capuçon next.
Quote from: petrarch on June 05, 2011, 01:57:25 AM
I am also in search for the recording of D929, ever since The Hunger and getting the soundtrack CD in the early 90s.
I have recently tried 4 versions with the following results:
1. Serkin/Busch/Busch - They play the andante at the right pace, but unfortunately the sound quality is poor.
2. Schiff/Shiokawa/Perenyi - Interesting version, but the instruments are a bit distant and in the denser parts they sound blurred. This is especially noticeable when the piano starts the arpeggiations in the andante, where the individual notes drown in reverb.
3. Gaia Scienza - Very good sound quality, but they hurry a bit through the andante. There is more 'air' between the instruments. I wish they played it more like the Serkin/Busch/Busch. I might get used to this one.
4. Beaux Arts Trio - Good sound quality, although the piano was probably picked up too close and sounds much bigger than the strings. Overall a very good version. (this is the Philips double CD with BAT only, not the one with Grumiaux)
The challenge for me is getting a good interpretation in a recording of enough quality to give me the sense and illusion of "being there". There probably won't be one version that does it all, but two or three to be listened to depending on the mood.
Will have to try the Florestan and Capuçon next.
I'd like to know your opinion of the Capucon when you get it. Though i can tell it's not the only One (maybe that IS Florestan?), it's the kind of Virgin/Philips type recording that finds its way to the player very frequently,... if you like the Tetzlaff/Andsnes Bartok on Virgin, then you know the kind of aural experience you get here.
Plus!, Schubert's not so bad either! I find I'm liking the more cheerful PT (the oooother one).
Quote from: petrarch on June 05, 2011, 01:57:25 AM
I am also in search for the recording of D929, ever since The Hunger and getting the soundtrack CD in the early 90s.
I have recently tried 4 versions with the following results:
1. Serkin/Busch/Busch - They play the andante at the right pace, but unfortunately the sound quality is poor.
2. Schiff/Shiokawa/Perenyi - Interesting version, but the instruments are a bit distant and in the denser parts they sound blurred. This is especially noticeable when the piano starts the arpeggiations in the andante, where the individual notes drown in reverb.
3. Gaia Scienza - Very good sound quality, but they hurry a bit through the andante. There is more 'air' between the instruments. I wish they played it more like the Serkin/Busch/Busch. I might get used to this one.
4. Beaux Arts Trio - Good sound quality, although the piano was probably picked up too close and sounds much bigger than the strings. Overall a very good version. (this is the Philips double CD with BAT only, not the one with Grumiaux)
The challenge for me is getting a good interpretation in a recording of enough quality to give me the sense and illusion of "being there". There probably won't be one version that does it all, but two or three to be listened to depending on the mood.
Will have to try the Florestan and Capuçon next.
Yes Gaia Scienza take the Andante faster than wer're used to from the much loved Busch recording. You may want to try the one with Casals. It's an excellent performance with a slow antante. Perhaps not quite as original as Gaia Scienza but nevertheless very enjoyable, and with pretty good sound. Casals is on excellent form: for years I used to cherish this recording as my favourite, ahead even of Busch Bros.
[asin]B0000029L8[/asin]
Ir maybe even more interesting, not least because of the fact that they make no cuts, Golub Kaplan Carr take the trio at a usual pace, and here the sound is modern and the interpretation stimulating.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61n6r-PAyoL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
That Golub/Kaplan/Carr recording is getting a lot of Fives on this Thread!!
Quote from: petrarch on June 05, 2011, 01:57:25 AM
Will have to try the Florestan and Capuçon next.
I'm in the process of listening to the Braley/Capuçon/Capuçon and to the Ashkenazy/Zukerman/Harrell (although at the moment only on headphones, so I'll reserve more comments for when I can listen to them properly on my system). Both versions exhibit good sound quality and appear to have good balance between all instruments. As for differences:
- The Capuçon is very organic, even too organic; I felt that their timing was a bit off in the transitions between sections and they changed pace frequently without any sense of purpose that I could find.
- The Ashkenazy is even slower than the Serkin! Also an interesting version, with everything clearly stated, but a bit too morose.
At this point, my preferences lean towards Gaia Scienza and Beaux Arts, but I will have to listen to them all a few more times.
Quote from: petrarch on June 05, 2011, 07:54:36 PM
The Capuçon is very organic, even too organic; I felt that their timing was a bit off in the transitions between sections and they changed pace frequently without any sense of purpose that I could find.
/quote]
Maybe that's what I was hearing: it was a 'something' that I couldn't put my finger on.
Tried a bunch, and keep coming back to the BAT. They really are excellent in this music.
Quote from: Tyson on June 07, 2011, 12:05:18 AM
Tried a bunch, and keep coming back to the BAT. They really are excellent in this music.
Hmmm,... I'm hearing it.
Let me bump the thread because I've enjoyed it so much and I need to thanks everyone who's contributed; also I'd like to ask about two HIP recordings of the Schubert Piano Trios etc:
La Gaia Scienza and
Atlantis Trio.
The following (single discs or 2cd set, apparently roughly the same price either way) from La Gaia Scienza, on Winter & Winter, has garnered much praise at GMG and would seem to be a safe bet.
(http://www.winterandwinter.com/typo3temp/pics/6b1bc31c89.jpg)
However, I ran across a comment from Peter Watchorn (in a review of the Immerseel/Beths/Bylsma at Amazon) which indicated that the Atlantis Trio recording includes all the repeats (unlike Immerseel et al) and also the ~100 missing bars (unlike La Gaia Scienza, by Mandryka's account). GMG member Milk has mentioned his preference for the Atlantis recordings (not just the Schubert?). Aside from just these factors, has anyone heard both the GS and AT recordings, and do you recommend one over the other? For the moment, I think I will only be buying one of these. I purchased the Golub-Carr-Kaplan recordings of the Trios because these included those missing bars; I enjoy the GCK recording very much, but HIP it ain't.
I'll reproduce the Amazon review and Watchorn's comments below, after the cover image:
[asin]B003LY5FN4[/asin]
Bradley P. Lehman of Amazon writes [about the Immerseel/Beths/Bylsma on Sony, comparing it to the original edition of the Atlantis recording]:
QuoteExpertly played, but lacking repeats and fire, June 28, 2000;
This is a well-accomplished recording of the two big trios by Schubert, wonderful music. The period instrument sound greatly clarifies these works which can sometimes be turgid and poorly-balanced on modern instruments.
A major drawback, however, is the omission of repeats. Presumably this was done so both trios could be crammed onto one CD, 78.5 minutes. It throws off the structure of the pieces.
This disc also does not stand up to its competition: the Atlantis Ensemble (Schroeder/Sutherland/Crawford) on Wildboar, two discs (with additional Schubert works). The Atlantis, also on period instruments, plays with more attention to detail overall, more rhetorical freedom, more varied dynamics, more playfulness and whimsy in the fast movements, and more intensity in the slow movements.
In effect, the Immerseel/Beths/Bylsma set, being comparatively straightforward and uneventful, is quite nice but quickly recedes into background listening. The Atlantis is more involving, more subjectively engaged, in every bar. It is like a difference between very good black-and-white vs outstanding full color.
Peter G. Watchorn commented:
QuoteWait till you hear the Atlantis Trio set re-mastered with better ambience and stereo spread. There's no doubt that it's the set to have.
Not to mention that the Atlantis recording restores the 100 or so missing bars that Schubert was persuaded by his friends to cut out for publication, includin gthe critical moment when the 2nd and 4th movement themes are combined. In the Atlantis vesion, the finale clocks in at nearly 20 minutes. there's no doubt that Schubert was correct in his original assessment, before misguided by well-meaning friends got to him.
In the interest of fair disclosure: Mr. Peter G. Watchorn is a co-founder of Musica Omnia. ;D Not that it in any way implies the Atlantis Trio's recordings have been hyped, but as I said, it's all in the interest of fair disclosure... ;)
Haha, yes, that's true. I'm assuming massive profit margin expansion is not PW's primary reason for shilling for his own label, but he maybe should have mentioned that. Of course, it's an Amazon comment, the essence of universally-accessible obscurity....
Quote from: Octave on February 15, 2013, 05:37:45 AM
Let me bump the thread because I've enjoyed it so much and I need to thanks everyone who's contributed; also I'd like to ask about two HIP recordings of the Schubert Piano Trios etc: La Gaia Scienza and Atlantis Trio........................
Hi
Octave - over the years, I've culled these works down to just 2 sets: 1)
Atlantis Trio & 2)
Golub-Kaplan-Carr - I have no hesitation in recommending either or both (if you want MI & PI performances). Now, there is a separate 'Schubert Piano Trio' thread - check HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,963.msg517777.html#msg517777) for some comments. Also, for just another 'non-biased' review from MusicWeb reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=502452) - good luck in your selection(s) - Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 15, 2013, 06:58:26 AM
Hi Octave - over the years, I've culled these works down to just 2 sets: 1) Atlantis Trio & 2) Golub-Kaplan-Carr - I have no hesitation in recommending either or both (if you want MI & PI performances). Now, there is a separate 'Schubert Piano Trio' thread - check HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,963.msg517777.html#msg517777) for some comments. Also, for just another 'non-biased' review from MusicWeb reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=502452) - good luck in your selection(s) - Dave :)
But you must have Gaia Scienza because the conception of the music is so different. You know, it's so much darker in their hands. I don't think this has anything to do with being informed, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 15, 2013, 07:43:09 AM
But you must have Gaia Scienza because the conception of the music is so different. You know, it's so much darker in their hands. I don't think this has anything to do with being informed, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
No, I've not heard those performances, BUT the reviews on Amazon certainly pique my interest - however, the price is a little steep there and also about the same 'across the pond' @ MDT - so not inclined at the moment, however, another Amazon gift card may do the trick? :)
Thanks for that feedback, Dave and Mandryka....it looks like I face little choice aside from "buy both".
Quote from: Octave on February 15, 2013, 04:56:14 PM
Thanks for that feedback, Dave and Mandryka....it looks like I face little choice aside from "buy both".
Hi
Octave - well, BOTH are the best choice - ;) ;D Dave
Quote from: petrarch on June 05, 2011, 01:57:25 AM
I am also in search for the recording of D929, ever since The Hunger and getting the soundtrack CD in the early 90s.
4. Beaux Arts Trio - Good sound quality, although the piano was probably picked up too close and sounds much bigger than the strings. Overall a very good version. (this is the Philips double CD with BAT only, not the one with Grumiaux)
Did they do these twice (outside of the Grumiaux)? That is, one set with Cohen and an earlier one with Guilet?
Quote from: Bogey on February 16, 2013, 05:21:23 AM
Did they do these twice (outside of the Grumiaux)? That is, one set with Cohen and an earlier one with Guilet?
Yes, they did.
The Cohen is this one:
[asin]B000EBD84U[/asin]
And the Guilet, these:
[asin]B00000411U[/asin] (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518XLDJvp0L._SL500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000E48A/?tag=goodmusicguideco)
And here's another pristine recording that I find complements the Gaia Scienza very nicely, with a warmer sound:
[asin]B004V4GXT8[/asin]
Thanks for the BAT info. I will listen and compare their LvB run with the two different line ups and that will hopefully lead me into which Schubert to choose.
I love the Serkin/Busch despite the historic sound. However, one of the joys of listening to chamber music is the instrumental separation where you can hear the instruments talk to each other. So with this in mind the BAT (Cohen) is the one I most return to. It is a beautiful recording though like another poster I feel that if the piano was a little more recessed it would be perfect!
Quote from: Holden on February 16, 2013, 11:58:01 AM
I love the Serkin/Busch despite the historic sound. However, one of the joys of listening to chamber music is the instrumental separation where you can hear the instruments talk to each other. So with this in mind the BAT (Cohen) is the one I most return to. It is a beautiful recording though like another poster I feel that if the piano was a little more recessed it would be perfect!
What label do you have the Serkin/Busch Schubert on, Holden? (I have the
Schumann and LvB under them, but no Schubert)
Ah, thanks for mentioning that, Bogey; I liked their Ravel disc very much.
Quote from: Bogey on February 16, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
What label do you have the Serkin/Busch Schubert on, Holden? (I have the Schumann and LvB under them, but no Schubert)
First an apology, I only have D929. I don't think they did the B flat.
[asin]B000026GCX[/asin]
Did anyone mention the Million Dollar Trio: Heifetz-Rubinstein-Piatigorsky playing Schubert's Bb Trio?
The pinnacle of professionalism, elegant, suave and even humorous!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdT7y5p4Y3o
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 20, 2013, 11:36:51 PM
Did anyone mention the Million Dollar Trio: Heifetz-Rubinstein-Piatigorsky playing Schubert's Bb Trio?
The pinnacle of professionalism, elegant, suave and even humorous!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdT7y5p4Y3o
ZB
This is it I suppose - a pity.