GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: tjguitar on October 25, 2008, 10:17:09 AM

Title: Edgar Bainton
Post by: tjguitar on October 25, 2008, 10:17:09 AM
I know we have a few fans here. :)


I have the following 2:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H6XAJZ6BL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61AGKw%2BDxHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


I know CHANDOS recorded a Vol. 2 with more Bainton & Clifford and then another Bainton disc was released earlier this year (or maybe it was late last year?)


Any recommendations? :D
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Harry on October 25, 2008, 11:07:44 AM
Count me in as a admirer
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 25, 2008, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: Harry's Corner on October 25, 2008, 11:07:44 AM
Count me in as a admirer

Care to expand on this, my dear Harry?

In the meantime:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2007/Mar07/Bainton3_CDLX7185.htm

http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2003/Mar03/Bainton_Clifford.htm

Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 11:51:21 AM
I am sure that my good friend vandermolen would probably have replied but he is possibly already en route to visit the Netherlands :)

I think that these are the discs to which you are referring. Chandos has certainly done Bainton a great service with the discs it has issued. The 'Clifford/Bainton, Volume Two' disc contains Bainton's Rhapsody 'Epithalamion' for orchestra and 'An English Idyll' for baritone and orchestra(together with Clifford's 'A Kentish Suite'). Confusingly, the other Bainton cd is not labelled 'Volume 3' but then Chandos does rather get itself and its customers in a muddle by starting series and then allowing them to stall(cf Richard Rodney Bennett or Malcolm Williamson).

Bainton was one of those composers who emigrated in order to take up a prestigious teaching post-in his case in Australia as Director of the New South Wales State Conservatory-to the cost of his name and growing reputation back home(Fricker and Iain Hamilton are other examples sadly). His music is worth rescuing and investigating although, ultimately, I would not claim that he is touched with real genius.
The symphonies and other works, including the big-boned Concerto Fantasia (a piano concerto), are extremely attractive, old-fashioned works-a bit sub-Bax, to be harsh, but then I personally prefer slightly 'grittier' or 'deeper' music. Saying that, however, there is much to enjoy in music which clearly reflects a love of nature and a nostalgia for his native country-Bainton had also spent the years of World War One in a German prisoner of war camp, having been stranded in Germany in August 1914.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 11:51:58 AM
and
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 12:00:45 PM
As I was writing Jezetha has most helpfully added the linked reviews which will give you a somewhat more enthusiastic opinion on the music :)

Don't get me wrong..I am all in favour of Bainton being recorded and I do like the music. It is romantic, appealing, sometimes quite dramatic. Its simply that I would not put him in the same class as Bax or Moeran or Dyson or Ireland... :)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Harry on October 25, 2008, 12:04:04 PM
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 11:48:34 AM
Care to expand on this, my dear Harry?




Absolutely!
Meaning I have most of the orchestral works of Bainton that are recorded.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 25, 2008, 12:04:18 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 12:00:45 PM
As I was writing Jezetha has most helpfully added the linked reviews which will give you a somewhat more enthusiastic opinion on the music :)

Don't get me wrong..I am all in favour of Bainton being recorded and I do like the music. It is romantic, appealing, sometimes quite dramatic. Its simply that I would not put him in the same class as Bax or Moeran or Dyson or Ireland... :)

And thank you for your review, Colin!
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Christo on October 25, 2008, 12:22:59 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 11:51:21 AM
I am sure that my good friend vandermolen would probably have replied but he is possibly already en route to visit the Netherlands :)

:) Probably without a Blackberry, and in the midst of Force 7 Beaufort.  :P Hearing the wind-machine of the Antartica in his headphones.  ::)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 25, 2008, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: Christo on October 25, 2008, 12:22:59 PM
:) Probably without a Blackberry, and in the midst of Force 7 Beaufort.  :P Hearing the wind-machine of the Antartica in his headphones.  ::)

;D [Departure from Harwich: 23.45. Arrival in Hook: 7.45...]
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 12:38:01 PM
;D [Departure from Harwich: 23.45. Arrival in Hook: 7.45...]

Ouch!! 8 hours! Jeffrey thought six :)

Plenty of time to listen to VW's Sea Symphony, Britten's Four Interludes from 'Peter Grimes', Bridge Suite 'The Sea', Ciurlionis 'The Sea' etc, etc :) :)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 25, 2008, 01:07:46 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 12:46:20 PM
Ouch!! 8 hours! Jeffrey thought six :)

Plenty of time to listen to VW's Sea Symphony, Britten's Four Interludes from 'Peter Grimes', Bridge Suite 'The Sea', Ciurlionis 'The Sea' etc, etc :) :)

Well - 23.45 is British time. It's 00.45 Dutch time. AND the clock goes back at 3.00 am. It seems to be 6 hours and 15 minutes...

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/harwich-holland/timetables/
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 01:15:57 PM
Quote from: Jezetha on October 25, 2008, 01:07:46 PM
Well - 23.45 is British time. It's 00.45 Dutch time. AND the clock goes back at 3.00 am. It seems to be 6 hours and 15 minutes...

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/harwich-holland/timetables/

Och(as they say in Scotland!) that's a breeze then! (Notice the dreadful use of the word 'breeze' :))
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 25, 2008, 01:18:36 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 25, 2008, 01:15:57 PM
Och(as they say in Scotland!) that's a breeze then! (Notice the dreadful use of the word 'breeze' :))

Duly noted.  ;D (I like puns, so I don't mind.)

Sorry, tj. The topic WILL return!
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: tjguitar on November 03, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
The new-ish Chandos CD is listed @ only $11.97 at Amazon. I'm ordering!
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on November 03, 2008, 05:38:13 PM
My apologies as well ;D

I hate it when threads I start get threadjacked('Max Reger' becomes 'Ludwig van Beethoven') and yet I took part in derailing this one :(

Sorry, again, my friend :)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 06, 2009, 12:47:48 AM
I have just listened to Bainton's Third (on Dutton, coupled with Boughton). Lovely work. As I said in the Listening thread: 'Nothing new, but masterfully so'. I think I'll develop the same sort of soft spot for this work/composer like I have for, e.g., Dyson.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: vandermolen on February 06, 2009, 06:39:23 AM
Quote from: Jezetha on February 06, 2009, 12:47:48 AM
I have just listened to Bainton's Third (on Dutton, coupled with Boughton). Lovely work. As I said in the Listening thread: 'Nothing new, but masterfully so'. I think I'll develop the same sort of soft spot for this work/composer like I have for, e.g., Dyson.

Yes, it's very beautiful and the story behind its composition is moving. I often play this work and much prefer it to the Boughton.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: tjguitar on October 30, 2011, 10:30:49 AM
I'm listening to this one again, probably the first time since I bought it just under three years ago:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GWyM75SnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I think it's definitely worth exploring. There's just something about his orchestrations that I just find really appealing...
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on October 31, 2011, 04:15:47 AM
I've got his Second Symphony on a cassette,somewhere. I was rather impressed,actually. Not a masterpiece,but well worth hearing. Ok,it's not Bax,as some people here have pointed out,but who else is? (There's only one Bax!). Bax has a more memorable sound world no doubt,but the Bainton has some lovely,atmospheric,shimmeringly beautiful orchestral writing and since Bax didn't provide us with an eighth symphony,this one comes in handy! In fact,I think it's probably better than Bax's Seventh,in a way. To my mind,(and some others) by the time Bax wrote his Seventh,his creative juices were a little past their prime,the fires had dimmed & even if the Fourth seems episodic (actually,one of my favourites!) at least the ideas were good!!!
Not bad at all,in my humble opinion! ;D And certainly preferable to the contents of a recent Chandos cd of long neglected symphonies by a certain pianistically inclined composer! If I can find the cassette,I'll certainly put it on again!!!
As  they say in the cd Mags,'Warmly recommended!'
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Albion on October 31, 2011, 06:47:31 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on October 31, 2011, 04:15:47 AMpreferable to the contents of a recent Chandos cd of long neglected symphonies by a certain pianistically inclined composer!

(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb393/albion22/youngbowen-1.jpg)


Halloween already? Better double-lock the back door.

???
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 31, 2011, 06:54:01 AM
Actually there were two Baxes ;D

Don't forget Arnold's talented brother, Clifford:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Bax
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Karl Henning on October 31, 2011, 07:07:43 AM
The choral anthem And I saw a new heaven is fine . . . used to be part of the regular rep at St Paul's here in Boston.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on October 31, 2011, 08:05:43 AM
Quote from: Albion on October 31, 2011, 06:47:31 AM
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb393/albion22/youngbowen-1.jpg)


Halloween already? Better double-lock the back door.

???

I've got my stake,garlic and ear plugs at the ready!
(Which reminds me,I've got a dental appointment tomorrow!)
Thank you for the link Dunndonnell? Two Bax's? (What was he? Mike and Bernie Winters?!!!)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on October 31, 2011, 08:09:14 AM
There ARE worse things in life than York B****.
Cher,for example!
But then again,I prefer gypsies,tramps and thieves! :o
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on November 01, 2011, 02:35:15 AM
I DO MEAN the song of course! :D
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: vandermolen on January 25, 2014, 12:54:03 AM
Bainton's eloquent Viola Sonata is featured on the Naxos CD. It is the first recording of a darkly lyrical work written in 1922 and possibly reflecting Bainton's wartime experiences. It is a rather dreamy work but interspersed with militaristic sounding moments, as in the finale. As soon as the work finished I had to play it again. At times it is rather in the spirit of Cesar Franck. I increasingly appreciate this composer, whose self-effacing music conveys a touching human warmth:
[asin]B0085AXSKG[/asin]
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: vandermolen on May 06, 2014, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 25, 2014, 12:54:03 AM
Bainton's eloquent Viola Sonata is featured on the Naxos CD. It is the first recording of a darkly lyrical work written in 1922 and possibly reflecting Bainton's wartime experiences. It is a rather dreamy work but interspersed with militaristic sounding moments, as in the finale. As soon as the work finished I had to play it again. At times it is rather in the spirit of Cesar Franck. I increasingly appreciate this composer, whose self-effacing music conveys a touching human warmth:
[asin]B0085AXSKG[/asin]
Bumping this up to say that I'm sure that the very fine Bainton sonata would appeal to admirers of Vaughan Williams's late craggy Violin Sonata. Can't recommend the Bainton strongly enough and can't stop playing it.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: Karl Henning on May 07, 2014, 04:56:18 AM
That Bowen piece is curt!
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 17, 2017, 10:09:17 AM
I've been listening to the Bainton third again. The fact that I often use cordless headphones hasn't helped. There you are listening in another room and the Boughton comes on! ??? As I said,ingrate as I am  ;D,I do prefer one composer at a time;unless it's one of those old style collections of overtures or ballet music,like you used to get on Lp's. I think Bainton and Veale are quite good enough to stand on their own. At least the Gardner symphony is a decent one;although I still skip to the Veale now! The Clifford is a good one;and the Bainton Second and Clifford seem to go very well together.  Lyrita's decision to couple Brian with Cooke led to my sticking to buying dowloads of 6 & 16. I would have been quite happy with a cd of just the Brian symphonies,myself. I'm not really that keen on what I've heard of Cooke;but I think it is a decent symphony of it's sort,unlike the Boughton!! Anyway,I'm using the program button to isolate the Bainton third from it's annoying neighbour and you'll be pleased to hear that I'm starting to enjoy it now. It's obviously a more complex work than it's predecessor,so it needs more of a listen. Another observation. While on first appearances the main composer comparison that springs to mind is Bax;a good deal of it sounds closer to the sound world of Moeran.  Maybe a sort of fusion of the two;but with a flavour of it's own. The big climaxes certainly make a most glorious sound. A bit like the ones you have in the first movement of Bax's Second symphony. You feel the full power of the orchestra roaring at you. Very exciting!
I think I'll play it again now. Again,using the program button. I can understand why the Rutland Boughton trust wanted to record it,but phew!! ::)

After bashing Boughton's First,I must say I was genuinely disappointed to read in the most recent Rutland Boughton trust Newsletter (available via their website) that funding for new Boughton recordings has virtually dried up. Meanwhile the Faust Fund on the HB website races past the 90% marker!! ??? And there I was hoping I might live to hear one of his Arthurian Music-Dramas!! ;D  As to Nathaniel Dett? I would look him up,but I fear I'll be dipping into my account again! Guess what one of my New Year resolutions is? (was?! ::)).

Just realised I'm (was!) droning on about Bainton on a Rootham thread. I may try and move this post. Apologies for this! :-[



Okay,this is the right thread,now!! :-[ ;D




Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 17, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
Just finished Bainton's third after running to stop the cd player just as it got into the first bars of Boughton's First. Yes,magnificent. You've got a convert here! :)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: vandermolen on January 17, 2017, 12:46:26 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on January 17, 2017, 10:18:30 AM
Just finished Bainton's third after running to stop the cd player just as it got into the first bars of Boughton's First. Yes,magnificent. You've got a convert here! :)
Hello again! Delighted that you like the work. You might like the Viola Sonata on Naxos (see above). It is cheaper that the Nathaniel Dett Oratorio, which you can listen to on You tube anyway.
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 17, 2017, 01:19:48 PM
I listened to it a couple of times,then a gap,with a few other things in between,then a few times again before reporting back. By the time I posted again,the spell had been cast!  The Dett is on Yotube,is it? I've only just really started listening to music on there recently,funnily enough;although I have dipped in before! I think the last video I looked for there was Danger Man with Patrick McGoohan!!
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: vandermolen on January 17, 2017, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on January 17, 2017, 01:19:48 PM
I listened to it a couple of times,then a gap,with a few other things in between,then a few times again before reporting back. By the time I posted again,the spell had been cast!  The Dett is on Yotube,is it? I've only just really started listening to music on there recently,funnily enough;although I have dipped in before! I think the last video I looked for there was Danger Man with Patrick McGoohan!!

I've watched Danger Man too on You Tube  ::)
There is lots of good otherwise unavailable music there.
Here is the Dett:
https://youtu.be/2y3nKJt6FHg
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 17, 2017, 02:53:21 PM
Thanks,I'll have a listen to that. A bit late now,though,unfortunately,I fear?!! :(
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 21, 2017, 02:49:35 AM
Yesterday,I enjoyed listening to a cd-r I made of Bainton conducting his Second symphony. Not exactly hi-fi sound,as one might expect;but if you like this symphony definitely a must hear! A very enjoyable performance,with plenty of atmosphere. I think I actually,marginally,prefer it to the Chandos recording. As I did the Boult CBSO performance of Stanley Bate's third. Again,the sound was not exactly superb,but I felt the performance had more fire and conviction to it than the Dutton recording. Not entirely convinced by the Yates reading,this one really had me in it's grip. They also make great companions. It would be nice if someone could reissue these recordings on cd. I remember reading the review of the Dutton recording of the Bate in IRR (International Record Review) magazine where the reviewer expressed some reservations about the finale. I think he felt that it seemed to take a while to get going;as if the composer had had some problems there (I can't remember his exact words). The old Finale problem in other words. I think he felt it was like one of those old plane propellors that take a while to get going;but once they do it's brrrrrrm all the way!! ;D Boult (at least to my ears) ,being the old trooper he was,makes a more convincing stab at the final movement,steering it with an aplomb that seems to elude Yates. The constricted sound quality also,curiously,adds an edgy quality,a feeling of duress,which really makes this performance for me.  Excellent! :)
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on January 21, 2017, 02:49:35 AM
Yesterday,I enjoyed listening to a cd-r I made of Bainton conducting his Second symphony. Not exactly hi-fi sound,as one might expect;but if you like this symphony definitely a must hear! A very enjoyable performance,with plenty of atmosphere. I think I actually,marginally,prefer it to the Chandos recording. As I did the Boult CBSO performance of Stanley Bate's third. Again,the sound was not exactly superb,but I felt the performance had more fire and conviction to it than the Dutton recording. Not entirely convinced by the Yates reading,this one really had me in it's grip. They also make great companions. It would be nice if someone could reissue these recordings on cd. I remember reading the review of the Dutton recording of the Bate in IRR (International Record Review) magazine where the reviewer expressed some reservations about the finale. I think he felt that it seemed to take a while to get going;as if the composer had had some problems there (I can't remember his exact words). The old Finale problem in other words. I think he felt it was like one of those old plane propellors that take a while to get going;but once they do it's brrrrrrm all the way!! ;D Boult (at least to my ears) ,being the old trooper he was,makes a more convincing stab at the final movement,steering it with an aplomb that seems to elude Yates. The constricted sound quality also,curiously,adds an edgy quality,a feeling of duress,which really makes this performance for me.  Excellent! :)
'...the Boult CBSO performance..' WHAT? I must hear this. Where does one find it?
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 22, 2017, 01:43:34 AM
On Youtube! It says CBSO Boult. I looked at one of the reviews on Musicweb,just to try and verify what I was listening to and it said that Boult did conduct the CBSO in a 1966 performance. Oh,and here's the link to Rob Barnett's mention of it on Musicweb (fourth paragraph down). I remember when I was a member of the British Music Society Rob Barnett used to include in his mantra of works by British composers that should be recorded.

Here is the Musicweb review!!!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Mar10/Bate_CDLX7239.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Mar10/Bate_CDLX7239.htm) 

The CBSO Boult Bate third is on the James Stuart Channel. Allot of interesting stuff there!
Title: Re: Edgar Bainton
Post by: cilgwyn on January 22, 2017, 02:46:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/mrOnGinlWuI