This is one of those symphonies that, against all odds, rises well up the list whenever I choose my favorites. I would love to have the definitive recording of it, I suppose, but listening to various orchestras have a go at it provides its own form of enjoyment. I haven't heard it get killed yet, so I suppose the music transcends different approaches.
My versions:
NBC SO / Toscanini (1941, the oldest!)
Chicago SO / Solti
Berlin RSO / Barenboim
London SO / Abbado
San Francisco SO / Blomstedt
I think I have a couple more, but can't put my hands on them right now. In any case, my favorite at this point in time is the Chicago/Solti, something I might not have predicted in advance. The playing is crisp and wonderfully articulated, there is no lagging in the Allegro vivacissimo, and it seems to push all the right buttons for me.
I would be interested to hear your favorite versions, along with some arguments as to why they should become mine too. I want to expand my humble collection of this work, but not blindly. :)
Thanks for your input,
Gurn 8)
----------------
Listening to:
Brahms - Karl Engel-Edith Mathis - WoO 33 #21 Volkslied for Soprano & Piano "Es ging ein Maidlein zarte"
MAAG!!! End of story.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 12:41:25 PM
MAAG!!! End of story.
You mean Orquesta Sinfonica de Madrid? Is that his only essay?
8)
----------------
Listening to:
London SO \ Abbado - Symphonie No. 3 "Scottish"- IV. Allegro vivacissimo - Allegro maestoso assai
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 25, 2008, 12:50:42 PM
You mean Orquesta Sinfonica de Madrid? Is that his only essay?
8)
I love Maag's classic LSO version on Decca/London, paired on my old LP with their Hebrides overture. This is slower in sections and in some ways more pastoral than other versions of the Scottish, but pretty grand in presentation. Great sonics on the original LP...and although I do have a CD transfer (with MSND excerpts added), it's been too long since I heard it in that format to say how well those sonics now hold up. Perhaps someone else can comment.
Cheers,
Dirk
I am particularly interested from those who have heard it: how is COE / Harnoncourt in these works? Also WP / Dohnanyi.
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 1st mvmt
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 25, 2008, 12:50:42 PM
You mean Orquesta Sinfonica de Madrid? Is that his only essay?
8)
----------------
Listening to:
London SO \ Abbado - Symphonie No. 3 "Scottish"- IV. Allegro vivacissimo - Allegro maestoso assai
Gurn, you know which one I meant.
Quote from: dirkronk on October 25, 2008, 01:02:13 PM
I love Maag's classic LSO version on Decca/London, paired on my old LP with their Hebrides overture. This is slower in sections and in some ways more pastoral than other versions of the Scottish, but pretty grand in presentation. Great sonics on the original LP...and although I do have a CD transfer (with MSND excerpts added), it's been too long since I heard it in that format to say how well those sonics now hold up. Perhaps someone else can comment.
Cheers,
Dirk
Ah, LSO. That could be intriguing. Thanks for that, Dirk. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 2nd mvmt
I have three verisons, but the one that works best for me is the Abbado. This and FBM's Italian symphony are both so tuneful and spirited it's hard to imagine ANYONE botching it entirely. I haven't heard the Solti, but the way the CSO horns were recorded, I imagine it would be awesome.
I have the Muti version, which you haven't mentioned. It's fine, but you'll survive without it. Then again, it is bargain-priced...
http://www.amazon.com/Mendelssohn-Symphonies-3-4/dp/B00000JQY9/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1224968453&sr=8-2
What about his piano concertos? I have the Perahia version, and not head over heels with it (especially bc of the backgorund hiss). I've heard the recent Hough interpretation on Hyperion is great...anyone know anything about that?
Quote from: dirkronk on October 25, 2008, 01:02:13 PM
I love Maag's classic LSO version on Decca/London, paired on my old LP with their Hebrides overture. This is slower in sections and in some ways more pastoral than other versions of the Scottish, but pretty grand in presentation. Great sonics on the original LP...and although I do have a CD transfer (with MSND excerpts added), it's been too long since I heard it in that format to say how well those sonics now hold up. Perhaps someone else can comment.
Cheers,
Dirk
The classic LSO Maag is by far the one to get for dynamics, beauty of presentation (the slow movement is breathtaking), and sound. I love this one so much, I've bought it in virtually every cd release, including the SACD from Japan and the classicrecords gold release.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:03:55 PM
Gurn, you know which one I meant.
No, honestly, I didn't. I have never intentionally searched out this work, just picked up a few versions "by the way". Not realizing how much I enjoyed it until recently.
I was actually looking at that other when you posted, so it was in my mind. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 2nd mvmt
Quote from: adamdavid80 on October 25, 2008, 01:05:02 PM
I have three verisons, but the one that works best for me is the Abbado. This and FBM's Italian symphony are both so tuneful and spirited it's hard to imagine ANYONE botching it entirely. I haven't heard the Solti, but the way the CSO horns were recorded, I imagine it would be awesome.
I have the Muti version, which you haven't mentioned. It's fine, but you'll survive without it. Then again, it is bargain-priced...
http://www.amazon.com/Mendelssohn-Symphonies-3-4/dp/B00000JQY9/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1224968453&sr=8-2
What about his piano concertos? I have the Perahia version, and not head over heels with it (especially bc of the backgorund hiss). I've heard the recent Hough interpretation on Hyperion is great...anyone know anything about that?
FWIW, IMO the piano concertos have never been bettered by anyone since Serkin and Ormandy did them around 1960. This is still out there on SONY Essentials, and it still knocks me down every time I listen to it. YMMV, but several other versions have come and gone through my hands since then and none came close. (The Stern VC is pretty damned good too). :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 2nd mvmt
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:06:04 PM
The classic LSO Maag is by far the one to get for dynamics, beauty of presentation (the slow movement is breathtaking), and sound. I love this one so much, I've bought it in virtually every cd release, including the SACD from Japan and the classicrecords gold release.
Do you have a link to the cover art, for the one with best overall sound quality? Rave reviews like this inspire me to do my part in rescuing the battered economy!
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:06:04 PM
The classic LSO Maag is by far the one to get for dynamics, beauty of presentation (the slow movement is breathtaking), and sound. I love this one so much, I've bought it in virtually every cd release, including the SACD from Japan and the classicrecords gold release.
OK, it's on the top of my list. Thanks for that. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 2nd mvmt
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 25, 2008, 01:10:27 PM
FWIW, IMO the piano concertos have never been bettered by anyone since Serkin and Ormandy did them around 1960. This is still out there on SONY Essentials, and it still knocks me down every time I listen to it. YMMV, but several other versions have come and gone through my hands since then and none came close. (The Stern VC is pretty damned good too). :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 2nd mvmt
I heard the Serkin once, but on a really crappy stereo, so I thought the sound quality was VERY bad. I could be wrong. Apparently, I am. Again, this is another bargain priced CD, I shouldn't be afraid to check this out.
Quote from: adamdavid80 on October 25, 2008, 01:14:30 PM
I heard the Serkin once, but on a really crappy stereo, so I thought the sound quality was VERY bad. I could be wrong. Apparently, I am. Again, this is another bargain priced CD, I shouldn't be afraid to check this out.
The sound quality is NOT very bad, but there is a bit of hiss in it. I was able to totally block it out by the second measure because of the quality of the performance. This is Serkin (an absolute master pianist) at the peak of his powers and The Philadelphians with Ormandy as one of the leading accompanists of their time. I have heard that this got a remaster since I bought mine (in 1995) which may have de-hissed it a bit, but I don't know that for sure. In any case, I am no advocate for historic recordings as anyone can tell you, but this is one to have. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 3rd mvmt
This one:
(http://www.sa-cd.net/covers/s2689.jpg)
That is the SACD, but if you can't get it, then get this one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QMKMSXX8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I have Blomstedt/SFS on Decca which is excellent.
I also have this:
(http://image.libro.co.kr/music/f75/f752242525.jpg)
which is also very good, but the 3rd isn't as vital as the Blomstedt IMO.
:)
I also have the Abbado and a vast number of others. Nevermind those, get the Maag.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:34:12 PM
This one:
(http://www.sa-cd.net/covers/s2689.jpg)
That is the SACD, but if you can't get it, then get this one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QMKMSXX8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
How is the Maag Italian symphony?
The Maag 4th, on IMP or MCA classics is quite fine, but does not stand up to the Scottish LSO account.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:43:58 PM
The Maag 4th, on IMP or MCA classics is quite fine, but does not stand up to the Scottish LSO account.
And top picks(s) for the 4th?
That one is harder for me to formulate an opinion on. I have always gravitated to the 3rd and that is why I responded to this thread so forcefully.
Did you? You just interjected a few comments like "end of story!" which don't tell the reader anything at all. I would be interested in knowing *why* a particular recording is "highly recommended". We all know it is very difficult to explain these things in words, but if we don't even try, there is no point in visiting a discussion forum in the fist place.
Anyway,
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 25, 2008, 01:03:25 PM
I am particularly interested from those who have heard it: how is COE / Harnoncourt in these works? Also WP / Dohnanyi.
I actually didn't know that Harnoncourt had recorded the 3rd and 4th symphonies, but he did, along Sommernachtstraum and Walpurgisnacht which I vaguely remembered he recorded, but I never heard any of these. But that is definitely interesting and fortunately, used copies are easily available, so I ordered one of each.
I have the Dohnányi recording but actually don't remember much about how it is - I haven't listened to it in a long time. If you are looking for good Mendelssohn in general, it is worth checking out Masur's recordings with the Gewandhausorchester. These performances display a very fine sense of style and they are a good example for the often misused, elusive term "idiomatic" in the eloquently flowing, finely inflected and nuanced way the music is played, and Masur shows a good feeling for balances and proportions in these basically classicist readings, however at the same time there is also enough weight and depth of sonorities where needed (e.g. in the "darker" and "heavier" sections of the "Scottish" symphony). These are recordings I like to listen to once in a while because the musc making is just so stylish and the playing so sonorous. I just enjoy listening to this kind of orchestral culture which on that level is very rare.
BTW, Gurn mentioned recording with Barenboim and the RSO Berlin but he probably meant Ashkenazy?
Quote from: M forever on October 25, 2008, 02:36:49 PM
Did you? You just interjected a few comments like "end of story!" which don't tell the reader anything at all. I would be interested in knowing *why* a particular recording is "highly recommended". We all know it is very difficult to explain these things in words, but if we don't even try, there is no point in visiting a discussion forum in the fist place.
Anyway,
I actually didn't know that Harnoncourt had recorded the 3rd and 4th symphonies, but he did, along Sommernachtstraum and Walpurgisnacht which I vaguely remembered he recorded, but I never heard any of these. But that is definitely interesting and fortunately, used copies are easily available, so I ordered one of each.
I have the Dohnányi recording but actually don't remember much about how it is - I haven't listened to it in a long time. If you are looking for good Mendelssohn in general, it is worth checking out Masur's recordings with the Gewandhausorchester. These performances display a very fine sense of style and they are a good example for the often misused, elusive term "idiomatic" in the eloquently flowing, finely inflected and nuanced way the music is played, and Masur shows a good feeling for balances and proportions in these basically classicist readings, however at the same time there is also enough weight and depth of sonorities where needed (e.g. in the "darker" and "heavier" sections of the "Scottish" symphony). These are recordings I like to listen to once in a while because the musc making is just so stylish and the playing so sonorous. I just enjoy listening to this kind of orchestral culture which on that level is very rare.
BTW, Gurn mentioned recording with Barenboim and the RSO Berlin but he probably meant Ashkenazy?
M,
If you bothered to go just a little further, you'd see a little more about why.
Yes, thank you for the detailed information. I think I learned a lot.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:40:24 PM
I also have the Abbado and a vast number of others. Nevermind those, get the Maag.
Don't be such a dick. Or do I have to say ooh, "it's got such a fine sense of style or is idiomatic?"
Here:
QuoteThe classic LSO Maag is by far the one to get for dynamics, beauty of presentation (the slow movement is breathtaking), and sound. I love this one so much, I've bought it in virtually every cd release, including the SACD from Japan and the classicrecords gold release.
Well, you don't know what idiomatic Mendelssohn playing is, so you can't really say that - but of course, you could say it anyway. And thanks for your detailed description of that recording. I will read it later when I have enough time to digest all the info.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 01:34:12 PM
This one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QMKMSXX8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
That is the one I got. Should be here next week.
Thanks,
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 5th mvmt
Quote from: M forever on October 25, 2008, 02:36:49 PM
Anyway,
I actually didn't know that Harnoncourt had recorded the 3rd and 4th symphonies, but he did, along Sommernachtstraum and Walpurgisnacht which I vaguely remembered he recorded, but I never heard any of these. But that is definitely interesting and fortunately, used copies are easily available, so I ordered one of each.
I have the Dohnányi recording but actually don't remember much about how it is - I haven't listened to it in a long time. If you are looking for good Mendelssohn in general, it is worth checking out Masur's recordings with the Gewandhausorchester. These performances display a very fine sense of style and they are a good example for the often misused, elusive term "idiomatic" in the eloquently flowing, finely inflected and nuanced way the music is played, and Masur shows a good feeling for balances and proportions in these basically classicist readings, however at the same time there is also enough weight and depth of sonorities where needed (e.g. in the "darker" and "heavier" sections of the "Scottish" symphony). These are recordings I like to listen to once in a while because the musc making is just so stylish and the playing so sonorous. I just enjoy listening to this kind of orchestral culture which on that level is very rare.
BTW, Gurn mentioned recording with Barenboim and the RSO Berlin but he probably meant Ashkenazy?
;D You're right, Gurn DID mean Ashkenazy. I knew it was one of those piano players... :D Anyway, I rather like that version, although not to the degree of the Solti.
Glad you mentioned the Masur/Gewandhaus, that's one I was looking at but didn't have a feeling for. I'm willing to have a go at any of them, but I don't want to start with a consensus stinker. This one goes on the list too. :)
I figure on the Harnoncourt too. I'm surprised you hadn't had this one in hand already, given your taste (which I share) for Harnoncourt.
I have found one or two places where this symphony can be downgraded. A place I care about is the Finale - Allegro maestoso assai. There are times where this is taken as too... maestoso. It becomes ponderous, which is just what it shouldn't be given its crucial position as the very last bit to say. That is one of the things that attracts so highly with the Solti, it is maestoso (ma non troppo).
Thanks,
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Chicago SO / Solti - FMB Symphony #3 in a Op 56 5th mvmt
Gurn,
You got a great Midsummer's to go with it. His Hebrides Overture recording isn't there, but they'd have to put it on a second disc to get it in.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on October 25, 2008, 03:54:49 PM
Gurn,
You got a great Midsummer's to go with it. His Hebrides Overture recording isn't there, but they'd have to put it on a second disc to get it in.
Just what I was thinking. I love "Fingal's Cave" and hoped for that coupling, but you can't have everything. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Mendelssohn Symphony #3 in a Op 056 - Berlin RSO / Ashkenazy - Symphony #3 in a Op 056 1st mvmt - Andante con moto - Allegro un poco agitato
Klemperer is the one that really corners the symphony for me - that is, until the coda, which is far too slow and gets glued into treacle as it progresses. But the rest is really worth listening to. The Philharmonia's winds in the scherzo bubble like no other, and the slow movement has a natural gravitas that is just awesome. Great sound too.
I don't think as highly about the famous Maag version. The strings are wiry and the sound is boxy. No sense of the air and space that adorn the superb EMI production.
Karajan's is a perfect foil to the Klemperer. He is bracing, urgent and joyful, and the coda is a delightful, uxultant romp. Great playing (those icy winds!) and very good sound.
I used to like the Muti Philharmonia a lot, but that was in the lp days, so I can't vouch for such a far off memory. In my recollection it combined the intents of the two Ks, while the playing was both refined and a touch aloof. Glossy sound as I remember it, but the end result was powerful and exciting..
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 25, 2008, 05:38:45 PM
Karajan's is a perfect foil to the Klemperer. He is bracing, urgent and joyful, and the coda is a delightful, uxultant romp. Great playing (those icy winds!) and very good sound.
I have to emphatically disagree about the sound. I think it totally sucks. It does sound quite "nice" and sweetly bright and all that, but the last time I listened to that recording with good headphones, I got very frustrated by the highly artifical sound smoothing, the hazy lack of depth in which a lot of inner detail simply disappears into a misty void, and the overall, "unnatural" feel of the sound which doesn't do the sound of the BP justice at all. Of course, the recordings from that era were specifically engineered to yield that smooth and silky brand "Karajan sound" in the LP era and that worked very well, but I think it just doesn't sound good at all.
That's what I was afraid of. I never doubt the BP's playing, or even Karajan's conducting, but even one as undiscriminating as I am has to draw the line at a certain sound quality. :-\
8)
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 25, 2008, 05:38:45 PM
Klemperer is the one that really corners the symphony for me - that is, until the coda, which is far too slow and gets glued into treacle as it progresses. But the rest is really worth listening to. The Philharmonia's winds in the scherzo bubble like no other, and the slow movement has a natural gravitas that is just awesome. Great sound too.
I don't think as highly about the famous Maag version. The strings are wiry and the sound is boxy. No sense of the air and space that adorn the superb EMI production.
Karajan's is a perfect foil to the Klemperer. He is bracing, urgent and joyful, and the coda is a delightful, uxultant romp. Great playing (those icy winds!) and very good sound.
I used to like the Muti Philharmonia a lot, but that was in the lp days, so I can't vouch for such a far off memory. In my recollection it combined the intents of the two Ks, while the playing was both refined and a touch aloof. Glossy sound as I remember it, but the end result was powerful and exciting..
The one complaint I have heard about the Maag in common with yours is that the strings are "glassy." I don't think so and the overall approach Maag brings is fully involving and forceful. The air that you speak of I feel comes out in the latest remasterings.
I also like Maag, LSO, which I have on a London Stereo Treasures LP. It also has a wonderful Hebrides Overture.
I rather like Dohnanyi, too, for a more modern recording.
My favorite: Peter Maag with the LSO. Intense, dramatic, with a superb sense of dynamic and contrasts.
Quote from: M forever on October 25, 2008, 06:00:23 PM
I have to emphatically disagree about the sound. I think it totally sucks. It does sound quite "nice" and sweetly bright and all that, but the last time I listened to that recording with good headphones, I got very frustrated by the highly artifical sound smoothing, the hazy lack of depth in which a lot of inner detail simply disappears into a misty void, and the overall, "unnatural" feel of the sound which doesn't do the sound of the BP justice at all. Of course, the recordings from that era were specifically engineered to yield that smooth and silky brand "Karajan sound" in the LP era and that worked very well, but I think it just doesn't sound good at all.
Very possible. To me the sound of the BP in the Karajan EMI Bruckner 7th is impossibly artificial, pumped up and hazy, and yet you like it a lot. What can I say? I hear what I hear, and my mind processes it as it comes out of the speakers. BTW do you like the interpretaiton, or do the sonic considerations ruin the recording totally?
Regarding the Maag, I never heard the 'latest remasterings' only the lp.
I want to thank everyone for their input so far. Here is what I've done:
Ordered Maag/London SO
Ordered Harnoncourt COE
Put WP / Dohnányi on my wishlist
Still open to other suggestions, like the ubiquitous Szell/Cleveland. Is good?
But I'm off to a good start, thanks to ya'll.
Cheers,
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Glinka: Symphony; Spanish Overture; Music from Prince Kholmsky - USSR SO / Evgeni Svetlanov - Glinka Symphony in d on 2 Russian themes for orchestra G. i193 (incomplete)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 27, 2008, 04:29:29 PM
Still open to other suggestions, like the ubiquitous Szell/Cleveland. Is good?
Not aware of Szell having done a Mendelssohn 3rd. A 4th, yes...and it was coupled with an Andrew Davis 3rd on a budget CD--is that the one you mean, Gurn?
Cheers,
Dirk
Quote from: dirkronk on October 27, 2008, 06:57:20 PM
Not aware of Szell having done a Mendelssohn 3rd. A 4th, yes...and it was coupled with an Andrew Davis 3rd on a budget CD--is that the one you mean, Gurn?
Cheers,
Dirk
Dirk,
this was the disk I meant:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/8e/5c/e690a2c008a0198219386010._AA130_.L.jpg)
but I see now that although the 4th and Hebrides are with Szell, that the 3rd is, in fact, by Andrew Davis. My bad... :-\
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 25, 2008, 03:53:53 PM
I figure on the Harnoncourt too. I'm surprised you hadn't had this one in hand already, given your taste (which I share) for Harnoncourt.
Well, you can't have everything (unless you are Harry, of course, then you
have to have everything). I actually didn't know that Harnoncourt had recorded these symphonies - or I may have read or heard that somewhere many years ago but forgot about it. I enjoy listening to Mendelssohn's symphonies once in a while, but I am not really collecting multiple versions of them. Well, I have several versions of most of the symphonies, but not many. I did order the Harnoncourt CD though. This might be something that Thielemann might do very well - I heard a great 5th with him in Berlin with the BP once. Of course, his is the more "romantic" appproach.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 25, 2008, 03:53:53 PM
I have found one or two places where this symphony can be downgraded. A place I care about is the Finale - Allegro maestoso assai. There are times where this is taken as too... maestoso. It becomes ponderous, which is just what it shouldn't be given its crucial position as the very last bit to say. That is one of the things that attracts so highly with the Solti, it is maestoso (ma non troppo).
If you like the kind of clarity and slenderness that I imagine Solti brings to this repertoire, then maybe you might also like Norrington's recording. I actually have that but haven't listened to it in many years (and it is buried somewhere deep in my CD collection which is still mostly in boxes from my not-so-recent move), but I remember it as a quite interesting, not surprisingly rather slender and rhythmically springy, well outlined interpretation.
Incidentally, I do have a Solti performance of the 4th, a live recording with the WP. But I have never heard any other Mendelssohn from him.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 27, 2008, 03:53:36 PM
Very possible. To me the sound of the BP in the Karajan EMI Bruckner 7th is impossibly artificial, pumped up and hazy, and yet you like it a lot. What can I say? I hear what I hear, and my mind processes it as it comes out of the speakers.
Well, it's been a while since I listened to that 7th although I listened to the EMI Bruckner 4 not too long ago and found the sound rather good, but again, I haven't heard the 7th you mention here in a while and would have to relisten to it to doublecheck my memory. In general though, the recordings EMI made are much better and more "true" to the sound the BP had under Karajan. You have to take my word for it, since I heard them live quite often with him. Apart from the sound quality as far as timbres are concerned, the problem with a lot of DG recordings of the BP is that a lot of the inner detail is simply very smudgy and hazy, and while "the Karajan sound" was indeed very polished and somewhat smooth, it was much more transparent and luminous than one might think when listening to many of the DG recordings, and there was much more detail definition than these recordings suggest.
There is nothing "pumped up" about the EMI recordings though - it did actually sound that "big" live, believe it or not. It's hard to describe to someone who has never heard something like that live, sorry. The last time I listened to one of these was the EMI album of Wagner preludes, and hearing that transported me back to when I heard them live those many years ago, something that doesn't happen with a lot of the DG stuff.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 27, 2008, 03:53:36 PM
BTW do you like the interpretaiton, or do the sonic considerations ruin the recording totally?
I don't remember. I was just too annoyed by the sound. It certainly was very well played and had a number of nice musical moments despite the sonic problems, but these do weigh rather heavy in my opinion, because Karajan was such a "sound centered" conductor.
Quote from: M forever on October 27, 2008, 08:25:51 PM
If you like the kind of clarity and slenderness that I imagine Solti brings to this repertoire, then maybe you might also like Norrington's recording.
Is that the Hänssler one? I too like that disc, although there was no point me mentioning it before, as I haven't heard many recordings to compare it with...
So, if someone wanted their library to consist of 5 Mendelssohn discs total (and this can include tw different accounts of the same piece), what would you recommend?
Abbado leading the LSO in the Third and Fourth Symphonies
Cyprien Katsaris playing the piano concerti
Henryk Szeryng playing the E Minor Violin Concerto with the LSO and Doráti
Previn & the LSO performing the Overture and Incidental Music to A Midsummer Night's Dream
The Opus 20 Octet, choose what performance you will.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 28, 2008, 08:21:02 AM
Abbado leading the LSO in the Third and Fourth Symphonies
Cyprien Katsaris playing the piano concerti
Henryk Szeryng playing the E Minor Violin Concerto with the LSO and Doráti
Previn & the LSO performing the Overture and Incidental Music to A Midsummer Night's Dream
The Opus 20 Octet, choose what performance you will.
Got the Abbado, and the Szeryng sounds like something to definitely put high on my list...but I don't know the Katsaris at all...are you familiar with the Hough on Hyperion? I've been considering that one based on rave reviews I've read.
If the "discs" were flat, black, analog and vinyl, I'd say:
Violin concerto--Oistrakh/Ormandy on U.S. Columbia (many fine ones but this is magic)
Symphony #3/Hebrides overture--Maag/LSO on Decca/London
Symphony #4--Van Beinum/Concertgebouw on Philips (mono but excellent sound and my fave performance)
Piano concertos--hmmm, harder, but possibly Perahia/Marriner on Columbia (haven't heard the R. Serkin mentioned earlier in the thread, so that might be preferable)
OR
MSND--Maag/LSO (this might have to take precedence over the piano cti.--for longer excerpts Previn/LSO; shorter, fewer items but utterly gorgeous playing Szell/Concertgebouw)
Octet etc.--I Musici on Philips (ASMF also did a nice one, with some string syms attached IIRC)
Cheers,
Dirk
Quote from: adamdavid80 on October 28, 2008, 08:58:41 AM
...are you familiar with the Hough on Hyperion? I've been considering that one based on rave reviews I've read.
I'm not; it
does sound good.
Quote from: Lethe on October 27, 2008, 11:08:09 PM
Is that the Hänssler one? I too like that disc, although there was no point me mentioning it before, as I haven't heard many recordings to compare it with...
No I was talking about the onewith the London Classical Players on EMI. I wasn't aware that he also made Mendelssohn recordings with the RSO Stuttgart. But I am not suprised.
One of my 5 is the Violin Concerto with Campoli, LPO and Boult - superior to Szeryng & Dorati and D Oistrakh & Ormandy. Sadly - it is on the Beulah label - which is now OOP.
Flor doesn't force the timing and the dynamics, but he maintains the way that Mendelsohn drew. Simply, Flor does that the music speaks to us.
The sound quality is not too good, but enough to enjoy the music.
Thanks for that Ric. I wasn't aware of Flor's set. I heard him do a quite superb Bruckner 8th here that had exactly those qualities you speak about. I currently own only one disc of symphonies 3 and 4, and the piano concertos, so I guess I could indulge!
Save your money and indulge in the Masur recordings which are basically what Flor apes, not surprisingly, because he was from East Germany, too, and they had preserved a more traditional way of approaching the music there, only that Masur was decades ahead of Flor in experience when he made his recordings, and, as good as the Bamberger Symphoniker are, the Gewandhausorchester is just a few ticks better, especially in this repertoire.
Quote from: M forever on October 25, 2008, 02:36:49 PM
If you are looking for good Mendelssohn in general, it is worth checking out Masur's recordings with the Gewandhausorchester. These performances display a very fine sense of style and they are a good example for the often misused, elusive term "idiomatic" in the eloquently flowing, finely inflected and nuanced way the music is played, and Masur shows a good feeling for balances and proportions in these basically classicist readings, however at the same time there is also enough weight and depth of sonorities where needed (e.g. in the "darker" and "heavier" sections of the "Scottish" symphony). These are recordings I like to listen to once in a while because the musc making is just so stylish and the playing so sonorous. I just enjoy listening to this kind of orchestral culture which on that level is very rare.
Absolutely - seconded.
Q
I'll take your word for it, but aren't these Masur recordings quite older than the Flor? In any case, I suppose there won't be agreement on any complete cycle. American Record Guide describes them as "not as rigid and cold as Karajan, but there is something routine about his conducting". Their choice for a complete set is Abbado DG and Weller Philharmonia Chandos). Walter Weller is a former concertmaster of the WP and I like the few record of his I have. Any comments on this one?
Anyone have an opinion on Gardiner's disc containging the Italian and Reformation symphonies? The snippet I've heard of the 4rth opening movement sounded fine...(I have Abbado's 3&4, and,considering what I've read right here, gonna pick up Maag's 3rd)
Quote from: adamdavid80 on October 30, 2008, 06:09:41 PM
Anyone have an opinion on Gardiner's disc containging the Italian and Reformation symphonies? The snippet I've heard of the 4rth opening movement sounded fine...(I have Abbado's 3&4, and,considering what I've read right here, gonna pick up Maag's 3rd)
I wish I had heard it, but unfortunately not. :(
However, as you can see in my tag, the Maag arrived today and I'm giving a first listen. So far pretty impressive! The sound is great for 1957, and the playing is right up to snuff. Haven't gotten to the crucial 4th movement, but I have hopes. It will have to be pretty outstanding to nudge Solti and company aside, but hey, it could happen! :D
8)
----------------
Listening to:
London Symphony Orchestra, Maag - Symphony No 3 III. Adagio
OK, quick impression of the Maag/London Scottish.
As I noted above, the playing is first rate. The sound on this Decca Legends is really good for its time, I can't detect any recording compression or clipping noises (which only means that I can't hear them, maybe you can).
The crucial point which I have mentioned in terms of my own enjoyment of the work, the Allegro maestoso in the 4th movement, is the only place where it falls down a bit. It certainly is maestoso, but the tempo is not allegro, or my feeling of allegro. Simply put, it is a bit too slow to satisfy. I have to go back to Solti/Chicago here and say that he hits the nail on the head, somehow managing to maintain allegro throughout without sacrificing maestoso in any way. Nonetheless, no regrets having bought this, it is a good 3rd, and a very nice Midsummer's Night to boot. Thanks to those who rec'd it to me. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
K 626alt Requiem in d arr. for String Quartet (HIP) - Kuijken Quartet - K 626alt Requiem in d arr. for String Quartet pt 10 - Hostia
Great to hear Gurn. Glad you enjoyed it. I don't think I've ever heard Solti do this. Are you talking of the 1986 digital recording or Solti's mono recording?
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on November 01, 2008, 01:12:43 PM
Great to hear Gurn. Glad you enjoyed it. I don't think I've ever heard Solti do this. Are you talking of the 1986 digital recording or Solti's mono recording?
Yes, I did enjoy it. This is the Solti:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41uv-lVbMgL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
although it is from 1990 rather than 1986. Very pleasing. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 01, 2008, 02:04:24 PM
Yes, I did enjoy it. This is the Solti:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41uv-lVbMgL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
although it is from 1990 rather than 1986. Very pleasing. :)
8)
Found it at my local library. Will check it out.
Quote from: jo jo starbuck on November 01, 2008, 02:12:36 PM
Found it at my local library. Will check it out.
I shiver at the thought of Solti bashing this to death.
LCP, Norrington for me.
Quote from: Hector on November 04, 2008, 06:58:47 AM
I shiver at the thought of Solti bashing this to death.
LCP, Norrington for me.
I understand your concern, and yet that's not how it is. You should give it a try.
I'll have a go at the Norrington. My Harnoncourt arrived yesterday, but no time to listen to it yet. Hopefully this evening. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 04, 2008, 07:45:12 AM
I understand your concern, and yet that's not how it is. You should give it a try.
Doesn't surprise me,
Gurn. A few times WCRB has played
Solti leading
Haydn. Never excessive, though the overall tone has a kind of
glaze that wears (for me) over time.
Quote from: karlhenning on November 04, 2008, 07:48:00 AM
Doesn't surprise me, Gurn. A few times WCRB has played Solti leading Haydn. Never excessive, though the overall tone has a kind of glaze that wears (for me) over time.
Yes, a lot of his success depends on the work. I see the Scottish as needing appropriate firepower in certain places, yet suitable restraint in others. Solti actually manages the restraint very well, and of course, he is never at a loss for firepower. :)
8)
In the Armory of Music, Solti is loaded for bear . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on November 04, 2008, 07:48:00 AM
Doesn't surprise me, Gurn. A few times WCRB has played Solti leading Haydn. Never excessive, though the overall tone has a kind of glaze that wears (for me) over time.
That's an approptiate decription, Karl!
IMO, Solti did his best work with the english orchestras (LSO and LPO). I like his Haydn, but you're right about the weariness that comes with repeated exposure.
Picked up the Stephen Hough PCs 1&2 on Hyperion. Very impressive, but so far not connecting emotionally to it. Note-perfect, and a little too much so. Almost to the point of it having been programmed into a computer rather than conducted.
A couple more listens might get a little more out of me for it, but so far the Perahia (despite VERY audible hiss) is still my personal pick for this one...
Quote from: adamdavid80 on November 04, 2008, 08:28:12 AM
Picked up the Stephen Hough PCs 1&2 on Hyperion. Very impressive, but so far not connecting emotionally to it. Note-perfect, and a little too much so. Almost to the point of it having been programmed into a computer rather than conducted.
A couple more listens might get a little more out of me for it, but so far the Perahia (despite VERY audible hiss) is still my personal pick for this one...
Sorry, Adam, but if you cn stand Perahia's hiss, and not even TRY Serkin's with its very limited hiss, then you can't have a personal pick yet. We won't allow it... ;D Try it, you'll love it. (and I'm not even pushy! :o :o )
8)
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Listening to:
Mendelssohn Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 Scottish & Italian - Nikolaus Harnoncourt: Chamber Orchestra Of Europe - Symphony No. 3 in A minor, op. 56 Andante con moto - Allegro un poco agitato
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 04, 2008, 01:23:25 PM
Sorry, Adam, but if you cn stand Perahia's hiss, and not even TRY Serkin's with its very limited hiss, then you can't have a personal pick yet. We won't allow it... ;D Try it, you'll love it. (and I'm not even pushy! :o :o )
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Mendelssohn Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 Scottish & Italian - Nikolaus Harnoncourt: Chamber Orchestra Of Europe - Symphony No. 3 in A minor, op. 56 Andante con moto - Allegro un poco agitato
I repicked up the serkin! haven't listened to it yet, but the perahia might edge out any and all comers simply for the sentimental reasons of it was among the very first classical discs I ever bought.
Quote from: adamdavid80 on November 05, 2008, 11:12:21 AM
I repicked up the serkin! haven't listened to it yet, but the perahia might edge out any and all comers simply for the sentimental reasons of it was among the very first classical discs I ever bought.
Can't argue with your logic: the Serkin was my first ever Mendelssohn disk, and my first shot at piano concertos outside of the Classical Era. So the sentimental favorite. I did, however, give it many chances to be topped. It never was... :)
8)
I got my last new acquisition in this series the other day, and have now had 2 listens to it, so a quick report of my impressions.
Chamber Orchestra of Europe / Harnoncourt - The playing is, as always with this orchestra, impeccable to my ears. Harnoncourt keeps the tempi just a touch slower than what has become the usual, but not to anything remotely like dragging. Even the critical Allegro maestoso assai moves right along with no hint of ponderousness, although without the punch of Solti. The Chicago winds just have so much reserve power that they seem to be coasting where others are pushing. This is not a deal breaker, however, since many (most) people don't share my taste for head banging brass sections anyway... :D The only point I felt was a bit weak, and it may have been my listening rather than the playing, is that in a couple of places in the extended Adagio 3rd movement where they seem to kind of get lost and wander a bit before getting back on track. Like I say, that was probably me since I tend to get lost and wander a bit during extended Adagios.... :-\
So thanks to everyone who responded on this thread. Exploring Scotland via Mendelssohn's musical vision has provided a great deal of pleasure for me, and also expanded my library just a bit more. :D
8)
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Listening to:
K 239 Serenade in D "Serenata Notturna" (HIP) - Academy of Ancient Music \ Hogwood - K 239 Serenade in D 2nd mvmt - Menuetto & Trio
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 08, 2008, 07:24:20 AM
Chamber Orchestra of Europe
What do you think of COE's Mozart works? I'm thiking of getting the 5 disc set...worth it?
Quote from: adamdavid80 on November 08, 2008, 01:33:42 PM
What do you think of COE's Mozart works? I'm thiking of getting the 5 disc set...worth it?
If you mean the 5 disk set of wind works by the COE Wind Soloists, by all means, it's a gem. I don't have another, although I am sure there must be. :)
8)
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Listening to:
Mozart: The Symphonies - Pinnock, Trevor; The English Concert - Symphony #20 in D, K. 133: II. Andante
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f0/11/80ea1363ada0cbfb9848c010.L.jpg)
Klemperer held the notion that in the original "glorious" finale, "Kapellmeister Mendelssohn defeated composer Mendelssohn." That is, he thought Mendelssohn wrote that ending just to please the audience at the expense of aesthetics. So what did he do? Simple, he wrote new coda, quiet one, which according to Klemperer musically better suits what has gone before. Was he right? Hear for yourselves:
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/RSO%20Bav.Klemperer%20-%20Track04.mp3[/mp3]
IV Allegro vivacissimo - Allegro maestoso assai (Coda: Otto Klemperer)
Bavarian Radio Symphony / Otto Klemperer (live, 23.05.1969, Herkulessaal, Munchen)
How did you insert the music file onto the thread and put the play, pause, download button on the Klemperer thread, Drasko? Thanks.
Dohnanyi/VPO is very vivid in his Mendelssohn cycle, as good as it gets, IMO.
Quote from: Drasko on March 06, 2009, 11:05:33 AM
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/RSO%20Bav.Klemperer%20-%20Track04.mp3[/mp3]
IV Allegro vivacissimo - Allegro maestoso assai (Coda: Otto Klemperer)
Bavarian Radio Symphony / Otto Klemperer (live, 23.05.1969, Herkulessaal, Munchen)
Funnily enough, I don't think he went far enough. My main objection is to the last few bars; the first part of the new coda was actually quite good. Now that the possibility has been broached, it would make more sense if the repeated iterations of that main theme simply faded into nothingness, maybe with the ascending 1-2-3-4-5 wind line over one last dying chord as the violins slip quietly away. An even more radical ending, yes, but one mirroring the way that the symphony opened: out of the Scottish gloom, and now back in.
Quote from: MichaelRabin on March 06, 2009, 02:26:10 PM
How did you insert the music file onto the thread and put the play, pause, download button on the Klemperer thread, Drasko? Thanks.
Upload the audio file to some hosting site which allows direct linking - like fileden http://www.fileden.com/
Then paste the the link of the file into your post, highlight it and click on this icon (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Themes/GMG/images/bbc/mp3.gif) right above the smileys.
Thanks for this highly unusual reading, Milos! Klemperer's Mendelssohn has always figured way up my list (Midsummer Night's Dream , symphonies 3 and esp. 4). I had read about this recomposed coda and am glad I heard it. I can understand Klemperer's misgivings on the original coda (it sounds clumsily grafted on the end of IV instead of welling up fom it) but I can't say his solution is better than the original. And the culprit might well be the conductor himself: I have always thought his take on the symphony was just perfect until the coda. He takes it Moderato maestoso e molto lethargico. But lo and behold, he takes the same approach to his own recomposed ending. In the end, I think he was not the right advocate for the task. Too bad, as the allegro that precedes it is deliberate yet sharply pointed, with an impressive balance of weigth and transparence to the strings.