GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Justin Ignaz Franz Bieber on May 19, 2007, 01:41:02 PM

Title: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Justin Ignaz Franz Bieber on May 19, 2007, 01:41:02 PM
First of all I love all of Andrew Manze's & Romanesca's recordings & I think Manze has done a lot to creat interest in baroque composers (like Biber). However one thing is conspicuously absent from his discography, & that's Bach's sonatas & partitas. I recall something people always say about Curtis Joseph, that no matter what he does he'll never really be considered a great goalie until he wins a Stanley Cup. Similarly, as much I like Manze's/Romanesca's recordings, etc I will never consider him to be a truly great violinist (in the baroque repertoire especially) until he records Bach's solo violin stuff. Who's with me?
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Norbeone on May 19, 2007, 02:02:07 PM
I'm with you. I'd love to hear what improvisatory things he could throw into such masterpieces. Especially since there's an abundance of binary form movements, with repeats.

Then again, maybe he doesn't think he's good enough.   ;D
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: quintett op.57 on May 19, 2007, 02:23:49 PM
Quote from: biber fan on May 19, 2007, 01:41:02 PM
I will never consider him to be a truly great violinist (in the baroque repertoire especially) until he records Bach's solo violin stuff. Who's with me?
Partly :

Can he be considered a great violonist before he records them? Of course, he can. 
Is it his duty to record them? it's obvious, isn't it?
Big fan of Hilary hahn's recording here.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 19, 2007, 02:39:27 PM
Quote from: Norbeone on May 19, 2007, 02:02:07 PM

Then again, maybe he doesn't think he's good enough.   ;D

So he is right ;D
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Josquin des Prez on May 19, 2007, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: biber fan on May 19, 2007, 01:41:02 PM
I will never consider him to be a truly great violinist (in the baroque repertoire especially) until he records Bach's solo violin stuff. Who's with me?

I never did consider him to be a truly great violinist because quite frankly, he simply isn't.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Don on May 19, 2007, 03:40:12 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on May 19, 2007, 03:25:59 PM
I never did consider him to be a truly great violinist because quite frankly, he simply isn't.

I'm with you on this one.  I have a few Manze recordings; if all of them were thrown in the trash, I wouldn't miss a beat.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Que on May 19, 2007, 10:33:28 PM
I guess I'm on the middle ground here: I think his Biber recordings are amazing, and yes - truly great.
But I was frankly dissapointed by his recording of the Bach violin concertos, which does not forebode well for any take on the solo works. But you never know. :)

Q
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: 71 dB on May 20, 2007, 02:39:42 AM
I have Bach Violin Concertos and Handel Violin Sonatas by Manze. Expecially the Violin Concertos are superb imho.

About Biber's Rosary Sonatas: I have Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel. Is Manze much better?

Classical music drives me nuts. No matter what version I buy there's always something better.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Que on May 20, 2007, 02:45:04 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 20, 2007, 02:39:42 AM
I have Bach Violin Concertos and Handel Violin Sonatas by Manze. Expecially the Violin Concertos are superb imho.

About Biber's Rosary Sonatas: I have Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel. Is Manze much better?

Classical music drives me nuts. No matter what version I buy there's always something better.

Why not try Manze's "other" Biber issue first?  :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4930541.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: 71 dB on May 20, 2007, 02:48:26 AM
Quote from: Que on May 20, 2007, 02:45:04 AM
Why not try Manze's "other" Biber issue first?  :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4930541.jpg)

Q

Other Biber? Non-Rosary Sonatas?  ;D
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: 71 dB on May 20, 2007, 02:51:18 AM
biber fan, of course I am with you. It would be nice if Manze recorded more Bach.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Bunny on May 20, 2007, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: Don on May 19, 2007, 03:40:12 PM
I'm with you on this one.  I have a few Manze recordings; if all of them were thrown in the trash, I wouldn't miss a beat.

His Corelli was disappointing, too.  His Bach Violin concertos isn't that bad, but there are other, much better alternatives.  I think he does much better as the director of the AAM than he ever did as a soloist.  I could also say the same thing about his associate Richard Egarr.  Again, he does better as a musical director than as a soloist. 
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 20, 2007, 08:30:12 AM
Quote from: Que on May 20, 2007, 02:45:04 AM
Why not try Manze's "other" Biber issue first?  :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4930541.jpg)

Q

Yes, I have that set (the original release of it though), and I can also recommend it, esp. if you liked the Rosary Sonatas.

I personally like Manze, he is good in some things, and very good indeed in others. I'm willing to spend some $$$ and take a chance with him, anyway. If I someday actually get something where he sucks, then I'll reconsider. For now, though...

8)
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Bunny on May 20, 2007, 09:15:47 AM
The things I like best from Manze are his albums of CPE Bach and Mozart's "Night Music."  After that, I like his Mozart Violin Concertos.

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VR41QKSBL._AA240_.jpg)  (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R6TWKKS4L._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KW4FXZ08L._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: lukeottevanger on May 20, 2007, 09:41:01 AM
I've never got the Manze-hating, I must say. Some of his discs - the Pandolfi, Rebel, Schmelzer, Vivaldi sonatas and 'Phantasticus' discs especially (I must say I have quite a few Manze CDs) - strike me as very hard to better. In the central repertoire he is up against strong competition with different strengths and emphases, so opinions are wildly divergent (he strikes me as like Hamelin in this respect if no other!). My own feeling, based on nothing other than conjecture, is that he will take his time recording the Bach S+Ps. As he's recorded a lot of other Bach, Mozart etc., it can't be 'thinking he's not good enough' that has made him steer clear so far. Just the knowledge that this is the hub of his own chosen repertoire and that he therefore needs to approach it with reverence and care.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Harry Collier on May 20, 2007, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: quintett op.57 on May 19, 2007, 02:23:49 PM
Can he be considered a great violonist before he records them? Of course, he can. 

Of course he's not a "great violinist" -- no more than Rachel Podger, Jaap Schroeder, et al. He's a highly competent baroque violinist, playing fluent Vivaldi, Corelli, Sammartini, Dolcelatte (?) et al. But show him a passage with left-hand pizzicato, or a note above "D" on the E string, and he'd probably faint. Horses for courses. "Manze plays Sarasate"? No thank you.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Rabin_Fan on May 20, 2007, 05:07:15 PM
Carmignola is a different Baroque violinist - he did a very fine 5 Locatelli VC on Sony (4) and DG (1). Trained by Milstein & Szeryng before he turned to the "dark side" of violin playing (i.e. Baroque style) with great results. You heard him play, Harry?
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: orbital on May 20, 2007, 05:47:52 PM
I like his Bach violin sonatas nonwithstanding how "freestyle" they are. I would be interested in hearing his solo s &p's.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Justin Ignaz Franz Bieber on May 20, 2007, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 20, 2007, 09:41:01 AM
I've never got the Manze-hating, I must say. Some of his discs - the Pandolfi, Rebel, Schmelzer, Vivaldi sonatas and 'Phantasticus' discs especially (I must say I have quite a few Manze CDs) - strike me as very hard to better.

I especially like his disc of Handel violin sonatas. They all sound like they were improvised. I still think it's scandalous that a violinist who claims to specialize in baroque music hasn't recorded Bach's solo stuff. Maybe he is just taking the time to get them right.... I'm sure his recording of partita #3 will be the 'sprightliest' one there is if/when he gets around to playing it.
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Don on May 20, 2007, 09:55:25 PM
Quote from: Harry Collier on May 20, 2007, 11:43:01 AM
Of course he's not a "great violinist" -- no more than Rachel Podger, Jaap Schroeder, et al. He's a highly competent baroque violinist, playing fluent Vivaldi, Corelli, Sammartini, Dolcelatte (?) et al. But show him a passage with left-hand pizzicato, or a note above "D" on the E string, and he'd probably faint. Horses for courses. "Manze plays Sarasate"? No thank you.


The anti-HIP bias rears its head?
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: 12tone. on May 20, 2007, 11:45:49 PM
Quote from: Don on May 20, 2007, 09:55:25 PM
The anti-HIP bias rears its head?

If it's not a Historically Informed Performance it's not 'Home In Player'.  :D
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Josquin des Prez on May 21, 2007, 05:13:56 AM
Quote from: Don on May 20, 2007, 09:55:25 PM
The anti-HIP bias rears its head?

How is Manze HIP?  ;D
Title: Re: Manze MUST record Bach's sonatas & partitas
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on May 21, 2007, 05:42:01 PM
Quote from: Don on May 20, 2007, 09:55:25 PM
The anti-HIP bias rears its head?

It's part of that "higher culture" thing HC subscribes to...