We were talking about Stanford in another thread, I don't recall which, but I felt the composer deserved his own.
I haven't ventured out into his choral music, but am pleased with two sets that I have of his orchestral music:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/5195B3K4N4L._AA240_.jpg)(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CBMNF27EL._AA240_.jpg)
I really enjoy the piano concerto which reminds me of Rachmaninov, the concert variations are fun too. I prefer the rhapsodies to the symphonies overall, but that's no slack on the symphonies. I wish there was more of his orchestral output on disc, though I'm not sure how much else he composed? I have not ventured out into his chamber music yet.
edit: I forgot to ask, does anyone have the following disc?:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f3/41/b6494310fca07729769b4010.L.jpg)
Is it similar to his 2nd Concerto or a much different composition?
Thanks
TJ
Quote from: tjguitar on May 19, 2007, 09:06:45 PM
We were talking about Stanford in another thread, I don't recall which, but I felt the composer deserved his own.
edit: I forgot to ask, does anyone have the following disc?:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f3/41/b6494310fca07729769b4010.L.jpg)
Is it similar to his 2nd Concerto or a much different composition?
TJ - I own that Hyperion disc of the Parry & Stanford
Piano Concertos (probably have at least a dozen of the CDs in this Romantic piano series) - fine performances, but these are the only compositions that are in my collection of these composers - I've not heard the 2nd Concerto, so can't comment specifically. :)
I have both discs. The idiom is similar in both concertos. I prefer the Irish Rhapsodies (espec. No 4) and the fine Irish Symphony.
Thanks to Mark I listened yesterday Stanford's Piano Quintet & String Quintet 1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanford-Piano-Quintet-String-No/dp/B000BOIWT6/ref=sr_1_22/202-9113303-0581422?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193321984&sr=1-22).
Nice music. :) I found the music organised and little stanford-offish. ;D
That Hyperion disc has excellent sound!
I got an opportunity to get the complete Chandos set of Stanford's symphonies, used, and took advantage. My only inkling of what I might expect was based off the Stanford+Parry CD from The Romantic Piano Concerto series. I liked both of those piano concerti at least a little, so thought I might take a chance without too much expense.
Stanford is a bit odd. I like almost all the material he uses as it is introduced, but unfortunately, every single one of the seven symphonies feels too long for me. Not only that, but every movement! That being said, though, I at least like all 7 of them. I'm kinda neutral to the Clarinet Concerto. I guess my favourite symphony might be #4.
Better than the symphonies, I really enjoy the tuneful, well-crafted orchestral Irish Rhapsodies! I can't believe I've gone so long without ever hearing them; I don't even remember hearing of them until a couple of months ago. What he does with the themes makes for real fun listening.
The CD liner notes for the set are on the skimpy side, and I'm having a hard time finding out much about these works in particular. I'd be interested in reading more detail, or just opinions. In any case, all told, I'm pretty happy with getting this set, there's lots of really good stuff here.
Stanford's Piano Concerto No.3(orchestrated by Geoffrey Bush) and coupled with his early Cello Concerto is available on Lyrita(SRCD 321).
The Violin Concerto coupled with the Suite for Violin and Orchestra with Anthony Marwood as a fine soloist comes on Hyperion CDA67208 in that company's Romantic Violin Concerto series.
I rather like his big choral pieces. There is a Chandos coupling of the Stabat Mater with the Bible Songs(CHAN 9548-Hickox, as usual!) and there is/was a splendid 2 disc Marco Polo of the huge Requiem(8.223580-1).
The recent Chandos CD coupling the Songs of the Fleet, Songs of the Sea and 'The Revenge' with Gerald Finley as a masterful solo baritone won awards, if I recall.
Stanford was a hugely influential teacher in his time even if many of his pupils ended up in rebellion against his rooted conservatism. Sadly, he lived long enough to be almost completely forgotten and ignored. It is heartening that his music has enjoyed such a recent revival even if-ultimately-he was a worthy rather than inspired composer.
I would like to hear the views of others in relation to a comparison between Stanford and Parry. I sometimes think that Parry had more imagination but then change my mind again!
(Incidentally, I possess an orchestral score for Stanford's Prelude to 'Oedipus Rex' with Sir Henry Wood's autograph stamp on it. Don't know where it came from and wonder if it has any value?)
I like symphonies 3 and 5 but better still are the Irish Rhapsodies (No 4 is my favourite). I agree that the other symphonies seem to drag on a bit.
Quote from: Dundonnell on April 24, 2008, 08:55:46 AM
The recent Chandos CD coupling the Songs of the Fleet, Songs of the Sea and 'The Revenge' with Gerald Finley as a masterful solo baritone won awards, if I recall.
I can certainly vouch for this; splendid sound as well:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CHSA5043.jpg)
awards:
• MDT Best Seller of the Year - December 2006
• Gramophone Editors Choice Disc of The Month - July 2006
• MDT Best Seller - June 2006
• Times Classical CD of the Week - June 2006
• Telegraph Classical CDs of the Week - May 2006
It seems Lloyd Jones has recorded 6 of the Stanford symphonies for NAXOS. I think I'll stick with the Handley for now...
http://musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2008/Oct08/Stanford_8570355.htm
If you like Stanford you may well enjoy Mortelman's 'Homeric Symphony' recently released on Hyperion. Not a great work but enjoyable and Stanford came to mind when I listened to it.
A bump for a really neat composer. The fifth symphony is excellent throughout, but has an especially fine final movement - overall it's probably my favourite of his symphonies along with the second. Odd how I find so many of Stanford's symphonies pick up greatly during the final movement - the third does too.
The interesting thing about Stanford, and something which elevates him to "really worth giving a shot" rather than just of niche interest is the general high quality of his entire output. The symphonies may not always find him at his best, but they never fail to interest me not simply as artful exercises in Mendelssohn/Brahms worship, but in how they look forward to the next generation of British composers in certain effects and tones. Some of his work would be of interest to someone who wants a less Wagnerian Bax, and so forth, although I should be careful not to over-stretch this tenuous point.
His concertos are very fine, and quite virtuosic - the second piano concerto is a real and dramatic concert work, no salon involved. Two of his Irish rhapsodies contain concertante elements, and these works look forward to the English tone poem of the first half of the 20th century along with pieces such as the Lark Ascending. His chamber music has been elegant and charming from what I have heard (violin sonatas, two quartets, etc), although anyone looking for emotion or quotations could do well to avoid them, as they are highly classical/objective in form :) He also wrote well for piano solo.
He is known above all for writing reams of choral music, but its quality cannot be overstated - really wonderful service music with some exceptionally enjoyable secular works thrown in. His more concert-oriented Requiem is also really good stuff, marking a break from a perceived tradition of Victorian potboilers. That Chandos disc of sea songs mentioned earlier is a favourite of mine. This kind of music can sound chillingly fine with the kind of well-drilled cathedral choir which works of this style in England at the time tended to be written for.
He was even a notable composer of opera (c. 10 in total), and by all accounts expertly wrote for the medium, although we'll probably never know what much of the music is like, as the huge amount of late Romantic and early modern British operas written during the 'English musical Renaissance' were completely ignored by native programmers. It's nothing to do with quality, as the neglect of opera occurs throughout the output of even the most recognised of composers. I think that prior to Britten, and ignoring the Gilbert & Sullivan operetta tradition, only Vaughan Williams had any luck with having his operas performed and understood.
Stanford is a nifty little composer and don't feel that he's just one of these 'national' figures who only exist to add some Hawthornian idea of cultural weight to better elevate later composers - his music can stand on its own merits and has the quality to appeal to a broad audience.
Sara - thanks for the update & the bump on this composer! :D
I have acquired a few more of his works, i.e. Clarinet Concerto, Nonet, Piano/String Quintets, & Sea Songs, since my last post - but have not obtained any of his Symphonies - looking for some new recommendations here - Dave :)
The original issues of the Chandos symphony volumes find themselves listed for low amounts on Amazon US marketplace every now and again (atm a few are at the $3 mark). The Chandos recordings are apparently sightly preferable to the Naxos ones, although those have gotten very good reviews too. Whichever you go for, you must also try the Chandos twofer reissue of the Irish rhapsodies (initially coupled one per symphony) with a piano concerto. The rhapsodies are very much in the Smetana mould, and don't give much ground to that composer in terms of quality.
For specific works the third symphony is his most popular, possibly due to its subtitle - the Irish - yet it's not quite full of the folksiness that one might expect, it's just a solid Stanford piece. Naxos helpfully couples two of my favourites, the 2nd and 5th. I should probably buy that one :) It's hard to pick between 2-6 as to which really stand out, but as a group they seem to be his best. The first is possibly a bit too long and undeveloped, the seventh is somewhat thin.
Stanford composed one of the finest songs I've ever heard which is called The Blue Bird for solo voices. It's simple, but heartbreakingly beautiful. Of his other works, I really enjoy the symphonies (I own both Handley's and Lloyd-Jones' cycles), the concerti, the Irish Rhapsodies, but I have yet to break into his choral music outside of the part-song I mentioned above. I heard his Requiem is quite good, would anyone else here recommend it? If yes, what is a good recording? Thanks in advance.
The Requiem was more or less totally unknown before the (very good) Naxos recording, although I hope somebody else will step in with some info so I don't look like I'm on a crusade or something. It's a really fine piece, although not as distinctive as the great ones. Musicweb has two reviews:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Nov04/Stanford_Requiem.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Feb05/Stanford_Requiem.htm
I particularly admire his choral music for some reason. The secular works (mainly suites themed on the navy) are excellent, and there are traces of the Gilbert & Sullivan tradition in effortlessly catchy tunes like The Little Admiral in Songs of the Fleet. The sacred works I find hard to criticise although it's equally difficult to pick highlights. I think that I like them most as repertoire pieces - his motets change nothing, in the grand scheme of musical history. If they were not written, another composer would have produced works to fill this gap in the corpus of the cathedral choirs. But at the same time I feel that Stanford, maybe even more than Parry, nailed the style. If he wrote anything more exciting it wouldn't fit the mould anymore. I suppose this does make them to some extent academic excercises, but this doesn't preclude their enjoyability - liking them must require affinity to their chosen style, as I've seen many Stanford fans not too engaged by this area of his output.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 23, 2011, 06:39:40 PM
The Requiem was more or less totally unknown before the (very good) Naxos recording, although I hope somebody else will step in with some info so I don't look like I'm on a crusade or something. It's a really fine piece, although not as distinctive as the great ones. Musicweb has two reviews:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Nov04/Stanford_Requiem.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Feb05/Stanford_Requiem.htm
I particularly admire his choral music for some reason. The secular works (mainly suites themed on the navy) are excellent, and there are traces of the Gilbert & Sullivan tradition in effortlessly catchy tunes like The Little Admiral in Songs of the Fleet. The sacred works I find hard to criticise although it's equally difficult to pick highlights. I think that I like them most as repertoire pieces - his motets change nothing, in the grand scheme of musical history. If they were not written, another composer would have produced works to fill this gap in the corpus of the cathedral choirs. But at the same time I feel that Stanford, maybe even more than Parry, nailed the style. If he wrote anything more exciting it wouldn't fit the mould anymore. I suppose this does make them to some extent academic excercises, but this doesn't preclude their enjoyability - liking them must require affinity to their chosen style, as I've seen many Stanford fans not too engaged by this area of his output.
It is quite good, so a right and just crusade from my point of view (if you want one that is)! :) In any case, I completely agree with Lethe that it (the Requiem) is very good. And like her, I think the Rhapsodies are outstanding. I think they hold their own entirely.
I recently added the songs (on Hyperion), but I have not gotten around to ripping them yet (something of a backlog on that front). I'll eventually report on those. I've not really gotten to the other choral music...yet...
Quote from: mc ukrneal on April 23, 2011, 07:05:49 PM
but I have not gotten around to ripping them yet (something of a backlog on that front).
The story of my life! :'(
The two regions of his output that I have yet to encounter are his solo organ music and his solo (non choral) songs. I am especially looking forward to getting around to the latter, as I can't imagine them disappointing.
Yes, Stanford's Requiem is a fine work. It's definitely not a "fire & brimstone" requiem, a la Berlioz or Verdi. It has a lyrical Mendelssohnian quality. He starts and finishes off the work with a gentle horn call, which provides a kind of "frame" for the 80 minute long expanse. I especially like the lacrimosa where the soprano and mezzo soprano sing a very mournful song, gracefully intertwining their vocal lines and harmonies. A "valley of tears" indeed - Stanford's ability to set the Latin text was excellent. This work was a tribute to Lord Leighton, a great British painter of the time and a personal friend of the composer. Upon receiving the commission, Stanford - being a Protestant - apparently had some minor irks about setting the Latin (or Catholic) service, but thank goodness that he decided to go ahead with this project, because it simply is an outstanding work. The Naxos disc also has a number of bonus tracks to fill up the 2 disc set which are excerpts from one of his operas The Veiled Prophet of Khorassan. Here there is an overture, a song and some ballet music. It's a typically British kind of exotica - perhaps there is a hint of Arabian spice in there, but it's very faint. All in all this is a good set, particularly worth having if you like Romantic choral music...
[asin]B00030B9B6[/asin]
Here's the partsong, The Blue Bird, I mentioned earlier. Please excuse the audio it kind of distorts on the real high notes. Anyway, this work is just mesmerizing to me. Some of the most beautiful vocal melodies I've ever heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNdeCzrdnpE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNdeCzrdnpE)
By the way, thanks to all for your suggestions.
Quote from: The new erato on April 24, 2008, 01:30:15 PM
I can certainly vouch for this; splendid sound as well:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CHSA5043.jpg)
awards:
• MDT Best Seller of the Year - December 2006
• Gramophone Editors Choice Disc of The Month - July 2006
• MDT Best Seller - June 2006
• Times Classical CD of the Week - June 2006
• Telegraph Classical CDs of the Week - May 2006
I recommend this disc, too. Quite a stunner on all counts: some gorgeous music, superlative singing, top-drawer engineering.
Well, at this point (may add more later!), just ordered the 2 sets below from Amazon USA - looking forward to the 'Irish' works (one of my grandmothers was 100% Irish although born in the USA, her parents had immigrated):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jU04xevfL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F4zx167ML._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 24, 2011, 06:25:10 AM
Well, at this point (may add more later!), just ordered the 2 sets below from Amazon USA - looking forward to the 'Irish' works (one of my grandmothers was 100% Irish although born in the USA, her parents had immigrated):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jU04xevfL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F4zx167ML._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
You simply can't go wrong with these releases. Both were my introductions to Stanford's music.
having more recently come to re-explore the choral realm in more depth recently, i have again enjoyed stanford's requiem & seen it in a new light. i have written about it earlier in this thread, but because i think i have a deeper appreciation of this man's art now, i posted my review below which i just finished writing for the "what are you listening to" thread. the image is in my earlier post on this thread, but i have listed full details of the set below -
STANFORD
- Requiem - soprano, mezzo, tenor, bass, choir & orch.
- Suite from "The Veiled Prophet of Khorassan" (Opera)
Irish soloists/RTE Phil. Choir/RTE National SO of Ireland
Adrian Leaper (with Colman Pearce in suite only), cond.
(Naxos - 2 disc set)
i bought this a year ago & have liked it ever since. it's the only recording i have of this composer. getting into this choral/vocal area - eg. with works like handel's "messiah," vivaldi's "gloria," faure's "requiem," mozart's "great mass in c," in the live format, and most recently haydn's "the creation" which probably made the hugest impact on me - i have come to appreicate stanford's requiem even more. like brahms, he probably wasn't a high voltage innovator like say beethoven, liszt or wagner were, but stanford's unique vision and "vibe" is unmistakably there in every bar, every note. it might not be technical (i don't know) but more philosophical or a "head space" kind of attitude thing. he was really an all-rounder and musical polymath in many ways, but his real passions lay in the choral realm. the choral harmonies in this work are just "to die for," totally out of this world, but not top-heavy like in some other requiems. it's hard to compare, but i hear some of verdi's italian warmth and flair in there, as well as mendelssohn's lyricism and understatement in how stanford writes for the orchestra. it's very subtle, but just as powerful as something more overtly dramatic (not much bombast here, he draws on the cymbals only about twice in the whole 80 minute piece). there are so many moments of genius here, it'd take me all day to go into it in detail as i'd like to. highlights for me are the "lacrimosa" in the fourth section "sequence - dies irae." stanford puts across the "vibe" of this valley of tears from which no departed souls ever return with such sensitivity and accuteness, it's depth is just unfathomable. many questions in this five minute section - eg. what lies after that valley of tears when we die? is there eternal life or just a void, nothing? another part is in the following section "offertorium" - the text speaks to us the living entrusting the souls of our departed loved ones to the care of god, in a "good" space, but it's beyond our reach. is this more in our minds, are we just kidding ourselves that this space actually exists? anyhow, the music of this short part is comforting and soothing beyond words. this requiem was written in memory of lord leighton, a great british painter who was not only a professional colleague but also a dear friend of the irish composer. no wonder, that even though stanford was of the protestant faith, this work setting the latin text from catholic sacred rites does away with these meaningless barriers. it's totally heartfelt, genuine, there is no hint of religious dogma of any kind in there. the forces are massive, but it's so intimate that it could have been written for only one instrument, like australian composer peter sculthorpe's "requiem for solo cello" which was also in memory of a dear departed freind of his. this is the only recording, done 70 years after the man's death. it's great that naxos has kind of gone "out on a limb" to put this work down on disc, my heartfelt commendations to them. like stanford, they are a label of little or no "********" - they are committed to putting out music, many things like this that deserve to be heard.
the "filler" here on the second disc is no less unique, but it's an orchestral selection/suite from one of the man's many operas that haven't seen the light of day for like 100 years. this work was premiered in germany. i particularly like how stanford uses the double basses and other lower string instruments in the ballet sections. like a famous part i remember in beethoven's 5th symphony, he gives these instruments, which are often relegated to the background, a huge "star turn." the song "there's a bower of roses" comes across as having the intimacy of art-song, it's more like that, not much like grand opera. for most of the song, the soprano sings accompanied by a harp, the irish national instrument.
in a word, this set is "awesome." yes, a cliche, but here it's use is highly warranted, imo...
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 24, 2011, 06:28:18 AM
You simply can't go wrong with these releases. Both were my introductions to Stanford's music.
Mine too. The Irish Rhapsody No 4 is my favourite.
Sid, it's great that you like this piece - I feel that it comes across as allowing the composer to flex his muscles after writing a lot of short works for the cathedral repertoire. Some find them workaday, I enjoy them a lot, but the Requiem is a definite attempt to write something far more transcendent and personal - I enjoyed your thoughts on it :)
Here we have a long violin concerto (some 38 minutes) of "pretty" music that I don't think goes anywhere.
When looking at some of the master violin concertos from the Romantics - the Brahms, the Tchaikovsky, Barber's, etc., and their themes and thematic development, Stanford's Opus 74 is long-winded without the necessary amount of memorable melodies. The Suite for Violin and Orchestra Opus 32 (28 minutes) fares a little better and is more listenable.
I'm glad Hyperion documented these works with excellent performances. It's just too bad the violin concerto fails to rise to the occasion. Historically noteworthy but it would be a long sit at a concert. :-(
Just finished listening to Stanford's The Blue Bird on YouTube, recommended to me by John. Very nice! The harmonies in this work seem a bit more forward-looking than in most of Stanford's other compositions I have heard, almost impressionstic, in fact.
Quote from: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
Just finished listening to Stanford's The Blue Bird on YouTube, recommended to me by John. Very nice! The harmonies in this work seem a bit more forward-looking than in most of Stanford's other compositions I have heard, almost impressionstic, in fact.
A beautiful work indeed, Kyle.
Does anyone have access to a photo of Stanford's bien aimée, Jane Anna Maria Wetton (Jennie) that they can post here?
The university library does not have a biography for him, and I don't plan on heading over to Davidson College until at least after January.
Thanks.
String Quartets - • No. 3 in D minor, Op. 64 (1897)
• No. 4 in G minor, Op. 99 (1907)
• No. 5 in B flat major, Op. 104 (1908)
• No. 6 in A minor, Op. 122 (1910)
• No. 7 in C minor, Op. 166 (1919)
• No. 8 in E minor, Op. 167 (1919)
• String quintet No. 2 in C minor, Op. 86 (1903)
• Sonata for Violin & Piano No. 3, Op. 165 (1919)
• Piano Concerto in B flat major WoO (early- no. "0") (1874)
• Violin Concerto in D major WoO (early, 1875)
• Variations for violin and orchestra, Op, 180 (1921)
• Serenade in F major for Nonet, Op. 95 (1906)
A host of smaller works, also .... these need to be addressed!
Hello, Naxos, Hyperion, DG, Chandos ... ?
Tonight, in a little over 40 minutes, the BBC National Orchestra and Chorus of Wales will give the world premiere complete performance of Stanford Mass: Via Victrix (1914-1918) from the Hoddinott Hall in Cardiff, and apparently it's being live-streamed. Quite possibly there may be regional restrictions, but I thought I'd post it here as it may be of interest here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06pyttx (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06pyttx)
I'm just beginning to realize what a fantastic composer Stanford was. People who dismiss his music as "academic" or "stuffy" clearly haven't given it a fair chance. Recently I've been endlessly delighted by works such as the 3rd and 6th symphonies, the 2nd piano concerto, and the Irish Rhapsody no. 5. Stanford showed a real gift for memorable melody and orchestration, and doesn't shy away from genuine profundity either, as in the slow movement of the 6th Symphony. If the names "Brahms" or "Tchaikovsky" were attached to any of his orchestral works, American orchestras would simply be eating them up!
Quote from: kyjo on April 05, 2019, 08:17:45 PM
I'm just beginning to realize what a fantastic composer Stanford was. People who dismiss his music as "academic" or "stuffy" clearly haven't given it a fair chance. Recently I've been endlessly delighted by works such as the 3rd and 6th symphonies, the 2nd piano concerto, and the Irish Rhapsody no. 5. Stanford showed a real gift for memorable melody and orchestration, and doesn't shy away from genuine profundity either, as in the slow movement of the 6th Symphony. If the names "Brahms" or "Tchaikovsky" were attached to any of his orchestral works, American orchestras would simply be eating them up!
Stanford is pretty consistent, not always, but you can find some fine gems from him. All the 6 Irish Rhapsodies belong to his most tuneful vein, I love all of them. The 3rd Symphony has echoes from Brahms in the slow movement (there is a motif in the 3rd mov. that is almost exact to that in the Brahms's 4th Symphony, 2nd mov.). At this moment I don't remember the other symphonies.
The
Concert Variations on an English theme, Op. 71 for piano and orchestra is superb. His chamber music also looks promising.
Quote from: kyjo on April 05, 2019, 08:17:45 PM
I'm just beginning to realize what a fantastic composer Stanford was. People who dismiss his music as "academic" or "stuffy" clearly haven't given it a fair chance. Recently I've been endlessly delighted by works such as the 3rd and 6th symphonies, the 2nd piano concerto, and the Irish Rhapsody no. 5. Stanford showed a real gift for memorable melody and orchestration, and doesn't shy away from genuine profundity either, as in the slow movement of the 6th Symphony. If the names "Brahms" or "Tchaikovsky" were attached to any of his orchestral works, American orchestras would simply be eating them up!
Do you know the Irish Rhapsody No.4 Kyle? It is my favourite work by Stanford.
Quote from: kyjo on April 05, 2019, 08:17:45 PM
I'm just beginning to realize what a fantastic composer Stanford was. People who dismiss his music as "academic" or "stuffy" clearly haven't given it a fair chance. Recently I've been endlessly delighted by works such as the 3rd and 6th symphonies, the 2nd piano concerto, and the Irish Rhapsody no. 5. Stanford showed a real gift for memorable melody and orchestration, and doesn't shy away from genuine profundity either, as in the slow movement of the 6th Symphony. If the names "Brahms" or "Tchaikovsky" were attached to any of his orchestral works, American orchestras would simply be eating them up!
I haven't listened to a huge amount of Stanford, but I can't say I have the same experience, and comparing him to Brahms seems really out there. My recollection of symphonies 2 and 3 include attractive melodies, skillful orchestration but rather foursquare and prosaic. Nothing approaching the rhythmic complexity and subtlety of harmony and orchestration that I associate with Brahms. Perhaps I should be listening to Irish Rhapsodies instead of Symphonies.
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 06, 2019, 02:03:06 PM
I haven't listened to a huge amount of Stanford, but I can't say I have the same experience, and comparing him to Brahms seems really out there. My recollection of symphonies 2 and 3 include attractive melodies, skillful orchestration but rather foursquare and prosaic. Nothing approaching the rhythmic complexity and subtlety of harmony and orchestration that I associate with Brahms. Perhaps I should be listening to Irish Rhapsodies instead of Symphonies.
The Third Symphony 'Irish' is easily the best IMO although I also enjoy No.5. The others I find rather turgid but the PC2 and especially Irish Rhapsody 4 are well worth exploring.
My notes on the third are more positive than the second. I also have that Rhapsody set and should try the 4th.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 05, 2019, 11:31:53 PM
Do you know the Irish Rhapsody No.4 Kyle? It is my favourite work by Stanford.
I don't believe so, Jeffrey. I'll be sure to check it out.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 05, 2019, 11:31:53 PM
Do you know the Irish Rhapsody No.4 Kyle? It is my favourite work by Stanford.
Well, now I do! :D What a fantastic work; Stanford at his most imaginative, colorful, and folksy.
My most recent Stanford discovery has been his
Songs of the Fleet:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51inDYqJEhL._SS500_.jpg)
Another work which shows Stanford at his very best. It possesses a true melodic gift and is expertly written for both the voice and the orchestra. The songs alternate between lyrical/atmospheric and swashbuckling with that quintessentially "British naval" feel. I had the jaunty fourth song,
The Little Admiral, stuck in my head for days after listening! Needless to say, the performances on this disc are exemplary.
Quote from: kyjo on July 26, 2020, 07:41:03 PM
Well, now I do! :D What a fantastic work; Stanford at his most imaginative, colorful, and folksy.
My most recent Stanford discovery has been his Songs of the Fleet:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51inDYqJEhL._SS500_.jpg)
Another work which shows Stanford at his very best. It possesses a true melodic gift and is expertly written for both the voice and the orchestra. The songs alternate between lyrical/atmospheric and swashbuckling with that quintessentially "British naval" feel. I had the jaunty fourth song, The Little Admiral, stuck in my head for days after listening! Needless to say, the performances on this disc are exemplary.
I'm glad that you like the Irish Rhapsody No.4 Kyle. I must look out for 'Songs of the Fleet'.
Good to see more love for this composer. Songs of the Fleet on that Chandos CD is the best work there without a doubt. Stanford at his most inspired.
This CD is also quite good:
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.573512.jpg)
Stabat Mater is the main work, but I was taken by the other pieces the most. Stanford was a substantial choral and vocal composer.
Good news that the Stanford Society is continuing to promote the composer's larger-scale works following the splendid mass Via Victrix on Lyrita. According to the Chairman of the Society:
Both the BBC and Lyrita were delighted with the concert and recording of the Stanford Mass and asked Adrian Partington if there were any more Stanford choral works of the same quality that had been neglected and never been recorded. Adrian asked the Stanford Society if we had any suggestions? As it happened we did, as we had started to prepare a list of Stanford works to recommend to the Three Choirs Festival for future performance.
The two specific works which we recommended to Adrian are The Elegiac Ode (Op. 21) and the Te Deum (Op. 66). The Elegiac Ode was written by Stanford in 1884 to a commission from the Norwich and Norfolk Festival. It was warmly received at its premier but has had very few performances since. This work was the first time that Stanford set a poem by the American metaphysical poet Walt Whitman (1819-1892)...
The Latin Te Deum of 1898 was written for the Leeds Festival of that year. This is another of Stanford's large scale choral work which was well received at its premier but has subsequently been neglected.
We have provided the scores of both the Elegiac Ode and Latin Te Deum to Adrian Partington. After review and discussion with the BBC he plans to conduct both works with the BBC National Orchestra of Wales, its Chorus and appropriate soloists early in 2022. We are hopeful that these works will then be released on CD by Lyrita. I am very much looking forward to this concert and the subsequent recording.
:)
Another exciting prospect:
https://somm-recordings.com/recording/stanford-songs-faith-love-nonsense/ (https://somm-recordings.com/recording/stanford-songs-faith-love-nonsense/)
:)
After hearing some surprisingly exquisite Stanford music today, I thought I would cross post...
In addition to Charles Stanford's justly famous
The Bluebird, may I also proffer his
Three Motets, op. 38 as worthy. A sort of
neo-Palestrina style, with Palestrina's clear, arching structure and tryingly difficult, 8-part, a cappella choruses, quite similar to the wonderful a cappella motets by Bruckner.
Beati Quorum Via is perhaps my personal favorite with Voces8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9zgq5qrNGw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9zgq5qrNGw)
There are some samples of them all on Presto: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7922578--hear-my-prayer (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7922578--hear-my-prayer) alongside VW & Parry, sung by
His Majestie's Clerkes.
Quote from: VonStupp on July 07, 2021, 08:57:01 AM
Charles Stanford
Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis in A, op. 12; G, op. 81; B-flat op. 10; and C op. 115
The King's Consort & Choir - Robert King (rec. 2012)
Wowsers, what a choral album! I came for the Parry, but I am glad I stayed for the Stanford. If you like choral music, make sure you pick this one up!
Pardon my ignorance, but I assume most of our friends east of the Atlantic are familiar with Stanford's Service Music. Yet, it is normally performed with boy choristers and pipe organ, and here it is with a period orchestra and adult mixed chorus, and oh my, what a difference it makes.
Far from functional, the orchestra really brings out the beauty of Stanford's music, hidden behind the service aspect. The chamber strings of the Nunc Dimittis in A open into the whole ensemble and quite simply takes my breath away. Catrin Finch's harping and Carolyn Sampson's soprano in the Magnificat in G is some of the most exquisite, heavenly utterances I have heard in a long while.
The King's Consort are using instruments from Stanford's time period (1895-1905), and not only do the booklet notes list all of the players, there are descriptions of each of the instruments that are being played.
The pipe organ is a Hauptwerk sampling of the Hereford Cathedral for their performance at St. Jude's, but it is hardly worth noting. Excellent!
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/web/imgcache/d8efde7e83e6aac5bba557275ca514c5/ia4bpa-iwasglad-preview-m3_550x550.jpg)
Quote from: VonStupp on July 07, 2021, 02:34:24 PM
After hearing some surprisingly exquisite Stanford music today, I thought I would cross post...
In addition to Charles Stanford's justly famous The Bluebird, may I also proffer his Three Motets, op. 38 as worthy. A sort of neo-Palestrina style, with Palestrina's clear, arching structure and tryingly difficult, 8-part, a cappella choruses, quite similar to the wonderful a cappella motets by Bruckner.
Beati Quorum Via is perhaps my personal favorite with Voces8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9zgq5qrNGw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9zgq5qrNGw)
There are some samples of them all on Presto: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7922578--hear-my-prayer (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7922578--hear-my-prayer) alongside VW & Parry, sung by His Majestie's Clerkes.
Have you heard Stanford's "In Haven" - absolutely stunning - up there with the finest unaccompanied British choral music. It was included on this collection by Paul Spicer and his Birmingham Conservatoire Choir...
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/811zrvvEmBL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 08, 2021, 01:30:05 PM
Have you heard Stanford's "In Haven" - absolutely stunning - up there with the finest unaccompanied British choral music. It was included on this collection by Paul Spicer and his Birmingham Conservatoire Choir...
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/811zrvvEmBL._SS500_.jpg)
I do love Spicer and his college choir. Maybe even more than his time with the Finzi Singers.
Quote from: VonStupp on July 08, 2021, 01:46:44 PM
I do love Spicer and his college choir. Maybe even more than his time with the Finzi Singers.
I think I agree with you. The Finzi Singers could just be a bit "buttoned up" in their slightly self-concious perfection
Not prompted by this thread but jsut part-way through a first listen to this disc;
(https://img.discogs.com/Oe-ogG4WCNuPmsU2YtwOLLY-EvE=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-11310981-1513955957-4358.jpeg.jpg)
Gerald Finley has an ideal voice for this repertoire - robust and "hearty" in the best sense. Also, the gentlemen of the BBC NOW Chorus have the upper range which often strains amateur choirs. Great music!
I was listening to a couple of Stanford Symphonies today which happened to be adjacent to a couple of Schumann symphonies before. I find it very hard to get beyond the sheer competence of Stanford to hear much of real inspiration and genius in these works. I really DO want to believe that he isn't just Brahms without the jokes but I have to say I'm disappointed.... AGAIN with these works.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 11, 2021, 02:13:15 PM
I was listening to a couple of Stanford Symphonies today which happened to be adjacent to a couple of Schumann symphonies before. I find it very hard to get beyond the sheer competence of Stanford to hear much of real inspiration and genius in these works. I really DO want to believe that he isn't just Brahms without the jokes but I have to say I'm disappointed.... AGAIN with these works.
I consider symphonies 3-6 the best of the seven he composed. The other three sound uninspired, too mainstream. For me, the Chandos recordings are more satisfying than the Naxos ones.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 10, 2021, 09:48:41 AM
Not prompted by this thread but jsut part-way through a first listen to this disc;
(https://img.discogs.com/Oe-ogG4WCNuPmsU2YtwOLLY-EvE=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-11310981-1513955957-4358.jpeg.jpg)
Gerald Finley has an ideal voice for this repertoire - robust and "hearty" in the best sense. Also, the gentlemen of the BBC NOW Chorus have the upper range which often strains amateur choirs. Great music!
I think that Benjamin Luxon's EMI recording is much finer in terms of both character and emotional power. He occasionally swoops around the printed vocal line, but that just adds to the nautical swagger...
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 11, 2021, 04:11:38 PM
I consider symphonies 3-6 the best of the seven he composed. The other three sound uninspired, too mainstream. For me, the Chandos recordings are more satisfying than the Naxos ones.
My personal favourites are 5 and 6. There is a good thesis on Stanford's symphonies -
The symphonies of Charles Villiers Stanford: constructing a national identity?
Jonathan White (PhD, Oxford, 2014)https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:6d16fac7-bb70-4ba9-bf0e-17c0a9f26ce5/download_file?file_format=pdf&safe_filename=THESIS01&type_of_work=Thesis (https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:6d16fac7-bb70-4ba9-bf0e-17c0a9f26ce5/download_file?file_format=pdf&safe_filename=THESIS01&type_of_work=Thesis)
:)
Quote from: Albion on July 12, 2021, 02:59:57 AM
I think that Benjamin Luxon's EMI recording is much finer in terms of both character and emotional power. He occasionally swoops around the printed vocal line, but that just adds to the nautical swagger...
I always enjoyed Luxon's singing - full of character for sure. I agree with your description of nautical swagger! But that EMI recording is SO washy and the chorus flap around - one of that label's worst recordings technically! Such a shame because I do rate Del Mar very highly.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 12, 2021, 03:11:54 AMI do rate Del Mar very highly.
Absolutely - a woefully-unrecorded and now largely forgotten conductor! The conclusion of
Fare Well from
Songs of the Fleet is much more overwhelming under his direction than that under the usually-reliable Hickox...
The slow movement of the 6th Symphony is just gorgeous beyond words - it has an "Irish/Celtic" feel that foreshadows Bax in his more lyrical moments. It also has a considerable depth of feeling which I don't usually associate with Stanford. I very much enjoy the whole symphony btw.
Quote from: kyjo on July 12, 2021, 06:43:22 AM
The slow movement of the 6th Symphony is just gorgeous beyond words - it has an "Irish/Celtic" feel that foreshadows Bax in his more lyrical moments. It also has a considerable depth of feeling which I don't usually associate with Stanford. I very much enjoy the whole symphony btw.
Stanford was a master of the slow movement - that of the 6th symphony is simply sublime, as are those of the 1894 and 1911 piano concertos....
Quote from: Albion on July 12, 2021, 03:51:03 AM
Absolutely - a woefully-unrecorded and now largely forgotten conductor! The conclusion of Fare Well from Songs of the Fleet is much more overwhelming under his direction than that under the usually-reliable Hickox...
+1 - years ago my mother recalled singing in a performance of this work where a choir member had recently lost a child and she said that the performance nearly broke down during farewell because of all the associated emotion....
Perhaps Stanford is one of those lucky/unlucky composers who had a surfeit of technique so that when inspiration failed they could still churn out perfectly serviceable music by the yard! At his best he is a nailed on genius but for me too often I have a feeling a composing by (Austro-Germanic) numbers........preparing to duck.........
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 12, 2021, 01:18:49 PM
+1 - years ago my mother recalled singing in a performance of this work where a choir member had recently lost a child and she said that the performance nearly broke down during farewell because of all the associated emotion....
Perhaps Stanford is one of those lucky/unlucky composers who had a surfeit of technique so that when inspiration failed they could still churn out perfectly serviceable music by the yard! At his best he is a nailed on genius but for me too often I have a feeling a composing by (Austro-Germanic) numbers........preparing to duck.........
A biography of RVW (or possibly a set of essays) I read a while ago (now can't remember which one) suggested that Stanford was a more charismatic personality than his two previous teachers, Parry and Wood but his method of teaching was aimed at training composers to survive in the late-Victorian music market. This involved composing oratorios and rehearsing and conducting them with the numerous choral societies. Possibly Stanford churned out a lot of stuff to meet the same market.
Vaughan Williams, referencing Bax, commented that perhaps 'he should have had some gruelling lessons with Stanford' but, on reflection, added that they would probably have just argued. I must revisit Stanford's 6th Symphony, partly because it's in memory of G.F. Watts - an artist whom I greatly admire. Stanford was obviously a great teacher, as can be seen by the large number of excellent composers who learnt from him.
BOY! I've not posted to this thread in a decade or so (repost below from the listening thread today) - since then, I've acquired some more of
Stanford's instrumental works and am currently listening to a Spotify playlist of his 8
String Quartets (see the attached reviews, if interested?) - I've heard a number of his 'vocal recordings' (several discussed recently) but just not a collector of this genre, especially post-Baroque - just me. Dave :)
QuoteStanford, Charles Villiers (1852-1924) - String Quartets w/ the Dante Quartet - there has been a LOT of activity on the composer's thread lately - my collection has increased over the decade and now own the recordings charted below, all instrumental works (not a huge collector of choral/vocal works post-Baroque, just me and despite Stanford's high standing in his writing for voice, whether sacred or seccular).
Stanford wrote 8 String Quartets - I'm listening from a Spotify playlist which also includes the Dante Quartet doing his String Quintets, thus recordings from 4 CDs - my British Music cabinet is FULL, so don't plan to purchase these CDs separately - if boxed into a small container, then a consideration, but Spotify on my den speakers sounds fine; these have received a lot of 'review attention' - attached are both Fanfare and MusicWeb comments on all of the works for those interested. Dave :) P.S. click images to enlarge.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-KGsmRvh/0/e979e06e/O/StanfordSQs.png)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-jD9RFjh/0/bcd1e609/O/StanfordCollection.png)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 11, 2021, 04:11:38 PM
I consider symphonies 3-6 the best of the seven he composed. The other three sound uninspired, too mainstream. For me, the Chandos recordings are more satisfying than the Naxos ones.
Nos. 3 and 6 are the definite standouts for me - even nos. 4 and 5 didn't really grab me. I do recall enjoying the finale of no. 1 with its catchy main theme.
Quote from: kyjo on July 14, 2021, 09:38:17 AM
Nos. 3 and 6 are the definite standouts for me - even nos. 4 and 5 didn't really grab me. I do recall enjoying the finale of no. 1 with its catchy main theme.
The 5th has some gorgeous music. The ending is quite uplifting.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 14, 2021, 09:59:09 AM
The 5th has some gorgeous music. The ending is quite uplifting.
I have to slightly step back from my earlier comments! The disc I was listening to was the Handley recording of the 2nd & 3rd Symphonies and I wrote my comment after No.2 only. Today I completed the disc and did enjoy No.3 a lot. I still find the bare-faced quote from Brahms intriguing! Was Stanford thinking "If Brahms can 'quote' Beethoven in a symphony I can quote Brahms!" Whatever the reason it sounds pretty glorious. Helped as ever by those vintage Chandos recordings from the Ulster Hall in Belfast. The acoustic there gives a warmth and ring to the orchestra that suits the music to a tee.
Jeffrey mentioned enjoying Watts as an artist. Many forum readers will know the Watts Gallery tucked in the hill next to the A3 in Surrey. If not its well worth a visit - a curious oasis of Victorian ethos so close to a bustling main road to London! The italianate chapel down the hill is a minor wonder/folly too!
(https://mk0surreyhillsnfif4k.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/watts-galleryDetail.jpg)(https://www.nationalchurchestrust.org/sites/default/files/watts%20cemertary%20chapel%20nick%20garrod%2032.0.jpg)(https://www.explorechurches.org/sites/default/files/styles/hero_image/public/2020-07/SurreyCOMPTONWattsChapel%28lenwilliamsCC-BY-SA2.0%291.jpg?itok=QVZI8uef)
Re-post from the listening thread - the attached reviews of Lloyd-Jones are excellent - Dave :)
QuoteStanford, Charles Villiers (1852-1924) - Symphonies w/ Vernon Handley and the Ulster Orchestra recorded 1987-1991 - I've been listening to Stanford's chamber works most of the week; will spend the afternoon and tomorrow on his symphonies, composed between 1876-1911 - listening on headphones - sound is excellent for these 30+ year old recordings (DDD) - the main competition is shown below, right, i.e. David Lloyd-Jones and the Bournemouth SO on Naxos in 4 volumes - I could find numerous reviews of the Naxos recordings (attached) but virtually none searching Fanfare, MusicWeb, AllMusic, and ClassicsToday for Handley; BUT, the reviews virtually always make mention of comparisons to Handley, which in my reading seems to be a 'toss up' although the more recent Naxos sound may have an edge at times? Just made a Spotify playlist of the 4 Lloyd-Jones recordings and will give a listen. Dave :)
P.S. Naxos should box these up in a 'thin' package, but likely if done will just put 4 single jewel cases together, their usually approach!
(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9279.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-QsmfxNj/0/2d94b844/O/StanfordNaxos.png)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 14, 2021, 09:59:09 AM
The 5th has some gorgeous music. The ending is quite uplifting.
3 and 5 are my favourite + the Irish Rhapsody No.4.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2021, 11:28:50 AM
I have to slightly step back from my earlier comments! The disc I was listening to was the Handley recording of the 2nd & 3rd Symphonies and I wrote my comment after No.2 only. Today I completed the disc and did enjoy No.3 a lot. I still find the bare-faced quote from Brahms intriguing! Was Stanford thinking "If Brahms can 'quote' Beethoven in a symphony I can quote Brahms!" Whatever the reason it sounds pretty glorious. Helped as ever by those vintage Chandos recordings from the Ulster Hall in Belfast. The acoustic there gives a warmth and ring to the orchestra that suits the music to a tee.
Jeffrey mentioned enjoying Watts as an artist. Many forum readers will know the Watts Gallery tucked in the hill next to the A3 in Surrey. If not its well worth a visit - a curious oasis of Victorian ethos so close to a bustling main road to London! The italianate chapel down the hill is a minor wonder/folly too!
(https://mk0surreyhillsnfif4k.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/watts-galleryDetail.jpg)(https://www.nationalchurchestrust.org/sites/default/files/watts%20cemertary%20chapel%20nick%20garrod%2032.0.jpg)(https://www.explorechurches.org/sites/default/files/styles/hero_image/public/2020-07/SurreyCOMPTONWattsChapel%28lenwilliamsCC-BY-SA2.0%291.jpg?itok=QVZI8uef)
Oh, I've been to the Watts Gallery and Chapel many times (my in-laws live quite near to it). RS is right, it's well worth a visit. I even sent one of my History of Art students there to research for her A Level coursework (the Curator was very helpful). Watts was an interesting character. He went to visit friends for the weekend and stayed for 40 years! His painting 'Hope' is one of my favourites and, in a few weeks time, I hope to visit his statue of Tennyson (with his dog) outside Lincoln Cathedral:
No. 6 is the only symphony I rate. Neither of the two recordings is completely satisfactory, but I can't tell if that's the fault of overly timid interpretations or simply bad orchestration. The music seems comparable to early Strauss or early Elgar both in character and in quality, but slightly closer to the former (eg pieces like the violin and cello sonatas, violin concerto, Aus Italien etc).
I recently re-listened to Stanford's Irish Rhapsodies [Handley]
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BRQAAOSwP1dgWmxM/s-l1600.jpg)
Irish Rhapsody No. 1
This is a fine, well executed work. Stanford weaves Irish folk music into a, then, modern sounding idiom. The music still sounds energetic and fresh in this presentation. The orchestration is very fine.
Irish Rhapsody No. 2
This music is very lyrical and I like its dark hues. The wonderful tone is crafted by the use of dynamics, wonderful harmonies and counterpoint, rich scoring filled with drama and tension and fine pacing. The orchestration is very fine and rich but it is never dense. This is a wonderfully multi-textured work. Handly has a very good feel for this music and it is given very fine treatment here.
Irish Rhapsody No. 3
This is a very lyrical work. It is also a cell concertante work. Both elements combine wonderfully here. The music is both expansive and intense. There is a wonderfully natural flow to the cello line which is exciting and spirited.
Irish Rhapsody No. 4
I really like the tone and atmosphere of this work. The music is beguiling and very captivating. The scoring is wonderful and, as the music progresses, it becomes more expansive and atmospheric. The music is in a constant state of flux and the various changes in tone, pacing, atmosphere and levels of both tension and drama are always very compelling. This is wonderful music and music making. The levels of intensity are very engrossing. This work, and presentation, has a powerful presence.
Irish Rhapsody No. 5
I find the tone of this work to be a curious mixture of the upbeat grounded on the disconcerting. The essentially joyful themes are not fully unleashed; something is, curiously, holding it back which I find to be quite intriguing. I find the central, slow, section to be quite idyllic yet still poignant. However, all is resolved at the conclusion. The harmonies and scoring are very fine and effective.
Irish Rhapsody No. 6
I find that the emotionally charged concertante music of the opening section is wonderfully engaging with its relatively sparse but very effective orchestral accompaniment. I like the gradual augmentation in the orchestral forces as the work progresses. The work concludes on a jubilant and positive note.
Quote from: aligreto on November 28, 2021, 07:47:17 AM
I recently re-listened to Stanford's Irish Rhapsodies [Handley]
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BRQAAOSwP1dgWmxM/s-l1600.jpg)
Irish Rhapsody No. 1
This is a fine, well executed work. Stanford weaves Irish folk music into a, then, modern sounding idiom. The music still sounds energetic and fresh in this presentation. The orchestration is very fine.
Irish Rhapsody No. 2
This music is very lyrical and I like its dark hues. The wonderful tone is crafted by the use of dynamics, wonderful harmonies and counterpoint, rich scoring filled with drama and tension and fine pacing. The orchestration is very fine and rich but it is never dense. This is a wonderfully multi-textured work. Handly has a very good feel for this music and it is given very fine treatment here.
Irish Rhapsody No. 3
This is a very lyrical work. It is also a cell concertante work. Both elements combine wonderfully here. The music is both expansive and intense. There is a wonderfully natural flow to the cello line which is exciting and spirited.
Irish Rhapsody No. 4
I really like the tone and atmosphere of this work. The music is beguiling and very captivating. The scoring is wonderful and, as the music progresses, it becomes more expansive and atmospheric. The music is in a constant state of flux and the various changes in tone, pacing, atmosphere and levels of both tension and drama are always very compelling. This is wonderful music and music making. The levels of intensity are very engrossing. This work, and presentation, has a powerful presence.
Irish Rhapsody No. 5
I find the tone of this work to be a curious mixture of the upbeat grounded on the disconcerting. The essentially joyful themes are not fully unleashed; something is, curiously, holding it back which I find to be quite intriguing. I find the central, slow, section to be quite idyllic yet still poignant. However, all is resolved at the conclusion. The harmonies and scoring are very fine and effective.
Irish Rhapsody No. 6
I find that the emotionally charged concertante music of the opening section is wonderfully engaging with its relatively sparse but very effective orchestral accompaniment. I like the gradual augmentation in the orchestral forces as the work progresses. The work concludes on a jubilant and positive note.
Interesting survey Fergus. I think that No.4 is especially impressive. I noticed today that No.3 was included in the Chandos two CD release of British Cello Concertos.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 28, 2021, 08:49:32 AM
Interesting survey Fergus. I think that No.4 is especially impressive. I noticed today that No.3 was included in the Chandos two CD release of British Cello Concertos.
A bit of a stretch, methinks.
I recently finished this set with the two works below:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BRQAAOSwP1dgWmxM/s-l1600.jpg)
Piano Concerto No. 2 [Fingerhut/Handley]: This work opens with a bang, literally. I find the opening movement to be very powerful with a great presence. This presentation of the first movement is frequently animated and always robust and assertive. The slow movement is also very lyrically but robustly, and eloquently, presented here with no sentimentality involved. The final movement here is an ardent, assertive affair. Both conductor and soloist are always in full control of their respective roles throughout this very fine performance. It is also a fine recording as far as sound quality is concerned.
Down Among the Dead Men [Fingerhut/Handley]: This is my first time hearing this work. I was very impressed with both the work and this presentation. I find the work to be very interesting and engaging, musically. Intense and powerful, the work has a great presence. The performance from all concerned is lyrical but robust, assertive and always atmospheric.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Composer, teacher, musician.
170, to be precise.
Listening to the 5th Symphony as commemoration.
Assuming that new releases are still going ahead (since the purchase of Hyperion by Universal) the Martyn Brabbins performance of the glorious Requiem will be released on the 5th of May.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1OTIxNS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzYzNjg0OTV9)
They even chose my laptop screen-background, G.F. Watts' "Time, Death and Judgement" as the cover art (Judgement is obliterated by the title, perhaps thankfully), although they could have chosen something by Lord Leighton (who is commemorated in Stanford's work)...
;D
In the meantime, here is a PDF of the CD booklet which is up to Hyperion's usual high standard...
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/notes/68418-B.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3hGVn4xx9YsriyxJzjchdy5uEaHogVRRMS5M6fifrbcsEbsp04QmNvvqA
Quote from: Albion on March 03, 2023, 06:58:29 AMAssuming that new releases are still going ahead (since the purchase of Hyperion by Universal) the Martyn Brabbins performance of the glorious Requiem will be released on the 5th of May.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1OTIxNS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzYzNjg0OTV9)
They even chose my laptop screen-background, G.F. Watts' "Time, Death and Judgement" as the cover art (Judgement is obliterated by the title, perhaps thankfully), although they could have chosen something by Lord Leighton (who is commemorated in Stanford's work)...
;D
In the meantime, here is a PDF of the CD booklet which is up to Hyperion's usual high standard...
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/notes/68418-B.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3hGVn4xx9YsriyxJzjchdy5uEaHogVRRMS5M6fifrbcsEbsp04QmNvvqA
Aagh - the compulsive collector's dilemma - do I
really need another Stanford Requiem when I haven't listened to the other version in the catalogue which I have and is fine in years.....?!?!?!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 03, 2023, 08:29:59 AMAagh - the compulsive collector's dilemma - do I really need another Stanford Requiem when I haven't listened to the other version in the catalogue which I have and is fine in years.....?!?!?!
Yep, you most certainly do.
;D
By all accounts this was a really splendid performance in Birmingham. I heard the Requiem in York Minster decades ago where the acoustic resulted in undiluted sludge and I find the Marco Polo recording dry, so hopefully Hyperion have got the sonics just right, as Naxos did with the Stabat mater under David Hill (far preferable to the Chandos under Hickox)...
The great news is that Adrian Partington and the BBC NOW (who gave us a splendid "Via Victrix") are recording the 1897 Te Deum, Op.66 (premiered at Leeds in 1898) later this year, coupled with the 1884 Elegiac Ode, Op.24, probably for Lyrita. Originally this Te Deum was supposed to have been the coupling for the Hickox Stabat mater until some bright spark at Chandos realised that it's a bloody big work and would have required a second disc, so they substituted the little B flat Te Deum and the incomparably dreary Bible Songs instead. I was at the 1999 performance of Op.66 in Leeds and seem to have been the only person who bothered to record the subsequent Boxing Day broadcast (everyone else was clearly too sozzled). The FM reception was absolutely terrible, but I've tried to clean up my recording as best I can...
https://www.mediafire.com/file/64eyu9lgpj9nrmh/Stanford_-_Te_Deum%252C_Op.66_%25281898%2529.mp3/file
;D
I simply can't get enough of Stanford in Italianate mode (perhaps he was trying to out-Verdi Verdi, who was one of his heroes). The Te Deum will complete the cycle of his large-scale works in this vein:
Mass in G, Op.46 (EM Records)
Requiem, Op.63 (Marco Polo/ Naxos and forthcoming from Hyperion)
Te Deum, Op.66 (forthcoming, probably from Lyrita)
Stabat mater, Op.96 (Chandos and Naxos)
Mass "Via Victrix", Op. 173 (Lyrita)
Critics at the time were puzzled by his contributions to the genre, as an Irish Protestant writing to Catholic texts they questioned the composer's sincerity, but it's ultimately the music that counts and Stanford was clearly moved enough to pour some of his best inspirations into each of these scores...
;D
Several of Stanford's late works have required re-orchestration (either because the originals have been lost or because he simply never completed them), and the results have been mixed. Jeremy Dibble did a great job with both "Merlin and the Gleam" (which I heard done by the Broadheath Singers about twenty years ago in the same concert as Dyson's "Songs for Sailors" and Cowen's scena "The Dream of Endymion" - what a great programme that was) and the Violin Concerto No.2 (EM Records EMR CD023) but I am less convinced by Geoffrey Bush's version of Piano Concerto No.3 (Lyrita SRCD 321) although perhaps the performance is at fault as everything just seems to hang fire: Nicholas Braithwaite usually drives things along, but this is not the case here...
::)
Really enjoying the 3rd symphony and the 5th Irish Rhapsody, plus the Songs of the Sea & Fleet. Where to next with this composer? Actually I managed to pick up the 6th symphony disc (Chandos, Handley/Ulster) for five bucks, so I guess I'll check that one out. I'm definitely convinced of the value of this composer.
@Roasted Swan, I noticed that Brahms quote too (the slow movement of the 3rd, right?), though I wasn't sure whether it was intentional. Now that you mention it, I'm sure he knew what he was doing!
Reading the book Albion's Glory gave me a bit of background with regard to Stanford's pedagogical style; apparently, his critiques were limited to "I like it, my boy" or "It's damned ugly, my boy", nothing in between, which I found amusing.
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 17, 2023, 05:46:35 PMReally enjoying the 3rd symphony and the 5th Irish Rhapsody, plus the Songs of the Sea & Fleet. Where to next with this composer? Actually I managed to pick up the 6th symphony disc (Chandos, Handley/Ulster) for five bucks, so I guess I'll check that one out. I'm definitely convinced of the value of this composer.
@Roasted Swan, I noticed that Brahms quote too (the slow movement of the 3rd, right?), though I wasn't sure whether it was intentional. Now that you mention it, I'm sure he knew what he was doing!
Reading the book Albion's Glory gave me a bit of background with regard to Stanford's pedagogical style; apparently, his critiques were limited to "I like it, my boy" or "It's damned ugly, my boy", nothing in between, which I found amusing.
I'm glad you are enjoying Stanford! The 3rd symphony was also my introduction to his orchestral music. The 6th symphony is definitely a good choice for what to listen to next. I posted enthusiastically about it last year when I first heard it. I think the 6th symphony is more original than the 3rd. The 2nd movement has one of the most beautiful English Horn solos, and the theme reappears in the Finale, leading to a very satisfying ending. I haven't listened in a while, but I recall his
Intermezzi for clarinet and piano as being enjoyable, too.
Quote from: Mapman on March 17, 2023, 06:09:13 PMThe 6th symphony is definitely a good choice for what to listen to next. I posted enthusiastically about it last year when I first heard it.
Including, I think, a recommendation to me in another thread where I was asking about little known late romantic symphonies. Somehow this resulted in me purchasing the 3rd on disc instead of the 6th, but I'll be getting the 6th in the mail soon enough and I'll let you know what I think!
The nautical song cycles I mentioned have a more unique sound, very British, almost reminding me of Arthur Sullivan, perhaps (I don't know anything about 19th century British music so maybe this touchstone is off). Perhaps it's the English lyrics that give me this impression, but they definitely sounded more English than the 3rd symphony, which reminded me of something like Mendelssohn's Scottish symphony filtered through Brahms and Dvorák. It was an enjoyable listen however with some memorable moments, and it excited me to hear more of Stanford's music.
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 17, 2023, 06:14:35 PMIncluding, I think, a recommendation to me in another thread where I was asking about little known late romantic symphonies. Somehow this resulted in me purchasing the 3rd on disc instead of the 6th, but I'll be getting the 6th in the mail soon enough and I'll let you know what I think!
The nautical song cycles I mentioned have a more unique sound, very British, almost reminding me of Arthur Sullivan, perhaps (I don't know anything about 19th century British music so maybe this touchstone is off). Perhaps it's the English lyrics that give me this impression, but they definitely sounded more English than the 3rd symphony, which reminded me of something like Mendelssohn's Scottish symphony filtered through Brahms and Dvorák. It was an enjoyable listen however with some memorable moments, and it excited me to hear more of Stanford's music.
The slow movement of Symphony No.6 is sublime, are as those of the 1894 and 1911 Piano Concertos. Otherwise Symphonies 3, 4 and 5 all contain wonderful music but No.7 is pretty dry (likewise the 1899 Violin Concerto and the 1888 Suite for Violin and Orchestra, although Jeremy Dibble's re-orchestration of the 1918 Violin Concerto proves it to be a lovely work). This is a splendid disc, mostly focussed on fairly late Stanford:
(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571282831.png)
For the major orchestral works, other than Concertos, I'd go for Lloyd-Jones (Naxos) in the Symphonies and Handley (Chandos) in the Irish Rhapsodies. The Handley Irish Rhapsody performances have been collated and repackaged twice (where you can enjoy them as a sequence) and the earlier one is preferable as you get the Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra, the "Oedipus Rex" Prelude and the Clarinet Concerto:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51IFyfX8uFL._AC_.jpg)
the 1911 Piano Concerto and the "Down Among the Dead Men" Variations can be had as a stand-alone disc...
Favorite discs featuring Stanford's choral music? I can't stop listening to "The Blue Bird" after Roasted Swan showed it to me the other day. Nor can I stop listening to the 3rd symphony! This composer's music is really speaking to me at the moment, for some unknown reason.
Quote from: Mapman on March 17, 2023, 06:09:13 PMI'm glad you are enjoying Stanford! The 3rd symphony was also my introduction to his orchestral music. The 6th symphony is definitely a good choice for what to listen to next. I posted enthusiastically about it last year when I first heard it. I think the 6th symphony is more original than the 3rd. The 2nd movement has one of the most beautiful English Horn solos, and the theme reappears in the Finale, leading to a very satisfying ending. I haven't listened in a while, but I recall his Intermezzi for clarinet and piano as being enjoyable, too.
Can finally report back to you with my thoughts on the 6th, and I agree, it's a very beautiful work, especially the slow movement. I agree, it is more original than the 3rd, but I like both a lot.
I don't think I realized how prolific and well-served on disc Stanford was, but there's a lot out there. I'm enjoying everything so far. He has been criticized for his conservatism, but he was good at what he did.
Is Stanford's music usually... low-voltage? I heard half of his Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra which was described as:
QuoteThe Concert Piece for organ, brass, drums and strings, composed in 1921, had never been performed until this recording was made recently—eight publishers had rejected it. There is an epic, heroic quality in this fine and noble music, which is played with her customary flair by Gillian Weir.
Hardly heroic. Lacked dynamism.
Quote from: lordlance on March 26, 2023, 02:54:40 PMIs Stanford's music usually... low-voltage? I heard half of his Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra which was described as:
Hardly heroic. Lacked dynamism.
Some of Stanford's music could be called "low-voltage". One of Stanford's influences seems to be Brahms, so I find the character of some Stanford similar to gentler Brahms.
However, some of his music is heroic or higher-energy. The finale of Symphony #3, and Irish Rhapsody #2 come to mind.
The concert of Stanford's "Elegiac Ode", Op.24 and Te Deum, Op.66 due to have been given in Wales on 6th May has been cancelled because of the bloody coronation circus. It has not thus far been rescheduled and may not ever happen - rehearsals must have been underway for some time and these two works are major gaps in the Stanford discography (it was due for release by Lyrita)...
::)
Quote from: Mapman on March 26, 2023, 05:08:39 PMSome of Stanford's music could be called "low-voltage". One of Stanford's influences seems to be Brahms, so I find the character of some Stanford similar to gentler Brahms.
However, some of his music is heroic or higher-energy. The finale of Symphony #3, and Irish Rhapsody #2 come to mind.
Brahms is hardly low-energy. His orchestral music can be ferocious even if there are gentler exceptions like the Third Symphony but then there's the titanic piano concertos and the First Symphony.
Quote from: Albion on April 18, 2023, 03:27:24 AMThe concert of Stanford's "Elegiac Ode", Op.24 and Te Deum, Op.66 due to have been given in Wales on 6th May has been cancelled because of the bloody coronation circus.
::)
It says something that for a brief moment I thought this was a euphemism for coronavirus.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 18, 2023, 06:44:30 AMIt says something that for a brief moment I thought this was a euphemism for coronavirus.
The upcoming farrago of nonsense at Westminster Abbey will be just about as dismal and probably cause fatalities as people realise that they have to actually bloody pay for the bun-fight. Meanwhile, Stanford is left in limbo...
That's a bit extreme but OK. And Stanford's been in limbo for ages so it's simply status quo.
Quote from: lordlance on April 18, 2023, 05:55:39 AMBrahms is hardly low-energy. His orchestral music can be ferocious even if there are gentler exceptions like the Third Symphony but then there's the titanic piano concertos and the First Symphony.
Brahms is incredibly low energy compared to Wagner, Liszt, Stravinsky, Mahler, Strauss etc.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 18, 2023, 08:25:08 AMThat's a bit extreme but OK. And Stanford's been in limbo for ages so it's simply status quo.
Brahms is incredibly low energy compared to Wagner, Liszt, Stravinsky, Mahler, Strauss etc.
Agreed, much as I love Brahms he never seems to get his kerjangers going. Compare with Dvorak and Tchaikovsky...
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 18, 2023, 08:25:08 AMThat's a bit extreme but OK. And Stanford's been in limbo for ages so it's simply status quo.
Brahms is incredibly low energy compared to Wagner, Liszt, Stravinsky, Mahler, Strauss etc.
Well if you want to keep Tchaikovsky as the barometer then very few can measure. He's the king of climaxes. But Liszt? Eh. He's not terribly good at orchestral music much as I love him.
Brahms isn't low energy in the overtures, the finale of the first symphony and piano concertos. How can they be classified as low energy? In my view the low energy composers like Debussy and Ravel that make me snore because of their preoccupation with writing "sensuous" music.
But Brahms wrote a ton more music than the examples you mentioned. And keep Ravel out of this! It's rich and ecstatically luxurious music! Lose yourself in it...
Dramatic misrepresentation of Debussy/Ravel there. Do I really need to spell out the hundreds of intoxicating reasons why?
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 19, 2023, 08:45:12 AMBut Brahms wrote a ton more music than the examples you mentioned. And keep Ravel out of this! It's rich and ecstatically luxurious music! Lose yourself in it...
Not only that, but hard to imagine e.g. a more 'high energy piece than La valse turns into. One of the most consumately realised conceptions in music....the way it grows and blossoms and blooms and, somewhere along the way, by the finest orchestral and harmonic gradations imaginable, goes overripe, decays, eats itself, eventually destroys the waltz itself. Is there a more masterly masterpiece?
Similar things happen in the D minor concerto; the finale of the G major is as high spirited as you can get. Examples abound.
These posts are so bizarre. I have no idea how one is defining high vs. low energy and who has it or who doesn't. I wouldn't describe any composers listed thus far as low energy, not by a long shot.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 18, 2023, 08:25:08 AMThat's a bit extreme but OK. And Stanford's been in limbo for ages so it's simply status quo.
Brahms is incredibly low energy compared to Wagner, Liszt, Stravinsky, Mahler, Strauss etc.
I have rarely encountered a statement that I disagree with more.
Quote from: Luke on April 19, 2023, 08:52:25 AMNot only that, but hard to imagine e.g. a more 'high energy piece than La valse turns into.
I was thinking the same thing about the finale of Brahms' Second Symphony.
I do think there is a pattern/trend of Brahms conducting that sells his vitality short. If people go too far down the "autumnal" road of interpretation, they can ignore some of the physicality that his music is full of.
Quote from: Brian on April 19, 2023, 11:50:01 AMI was thinking the same thing about the finale of Brahms' Second Symphony.
I do think there is a pattern/trend of Brahms conducting that sells his vitality short. If people go too far down the "autumnal" road of interpretation, they can ignore some of the physicality that his music is full of.
Generally like my Brahms lyrical, if not autumnal (the main criteria for me is that the strings are not too dominant of the sonority) but even so there is no lack of "energy" to the extent to which I can define it.
This is the wrong thread, but if I had to define what is unique about Brahms, there are rarely primary colors in Brahms. If a passage seems "happy" there will be some tint of sadness in it, or if a passage seems "sad" I will find some sparkle around the edges. Just my impression, of course. That has no bearing on "energy."
Just wanted to add that I also reject with utmost vehemence the notion that Brahms is in any way low energy.
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 23, 2023, 08:20:14 AMJust wanted to add that I also reject with utmost vehemence the notion that Brahms is in any way low energy.
Lord Lance does choose his descriptions of composers with a certain disregard for fact! (cf the self-taught Elgar is "academic")
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 23, 2023, 08:48:38 AMLord Lance does choose his descriptions of composers with a certain disregard for fact! (cf the self-taught Elgar is "academic")
In fairness to his lordship, it was Stanford to whom he applied that appellation; I believe it was the Maestro who placed Brahms on a similar thermodynamic level. As for Elgar, I'm sure I could think of several more fitting insults against his music than academic (maybe jingoistic if I were feeling especially uncharitable), though I choose to ignore them and love his music greatly. (I do also admire his autodidacticism.)
I agree about Brahms, he could show a great variety of colours and nuances in his compositions, with thematic lines continuously transformed in his textures, but he didn't certainly lack energy. As well as Elgar could be everything but academic.
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 23, 2023, 09:02:52 AMIn fairness to his lordship, it was Stanford to whom he applied that appellation; I believe it was the Maestro who placed Brahms on a similar thermodynamic level. As for Elgar, I'm sure I could think of several more fitting insults against his music than academic (maybe jingoistic if I were feeling especially uncharitable), though I choose to ignore them and love his music greatly. (I do also admire his autodidacticism.)
Not so - here is his quote;
Quote from: lordlance on March 28, 2023, 03:58:09 AM
My experience with British composers so far:
1. Macmillan - Love The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
2. Parry - Symphony #5 seems worth a second listen
3. Maxwell Davies - a tough nut to crack and one I've not heard in a long time
4. Elgar - his symphonies are incredibly dull and academic; I do enjoy In The South and Cockaigne though
It's such an odd phrase, 'academic,' but especially when you compare it in his description of the self-taught Elgar vs its absence in his assessment of that famously significant teacher Parry. Parry's great but immeasurably more 'academic' than Elgar ever was.
Indeed, the fact he never 'went up' to London is maybe at the root of what makes Elgar stand out from his contemporaries - a man who has acquired the trappings of the knight and (significantly) 'married well,' but who underneath is still that complex, bruised, unconfident, self-taught working class lad from the provinces. The troubled soul who is picking music up from the air he breathes, not from acquired 'technique' - that is Elgar, and the 'exterior' swagger that comes along now and then is only one facet of the much more interesting art which lies beneath.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 23, 2023, 09:43:28 AMNot so - here is his quote;
Quote from: lordlance on March 28, 2023, 03:58:09 AM
My experience with British composers so far:
1. Macmillan - Love The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
2. Parry - Symphony #5 seems worth a second listen
3. Maxwell Davies - a tough nut to crack and one I've not heard in a long time
4. Elgar - his symphonies are incredibly dull and academic; I do enjoy In The South and Cockaigne though
I meant to say that the appellation of "low energy" to Brahms was not Lance's. I did see the post you referenced where Lance was struggling with English composers.
Quote from: Luke on April 19, 2023, 08:48:03 AMDramatic misrepresentation of Debussy/Ravel there. Do I really need to spell out the hundreds of intoxicating reasons why?
Yes, Ravel can be intoxicating and luxurious, sure. Hence "atmospheric" is how I would describe it much like Bax but certainly not high energy. Not La valse I agree. That is fun. I am thinking of dreary pieces like Nocturnes, Images or Daphnis et Chloé that seem content to sound 'luxurious' and 'intoxicating' but by God do they need to get going. This isn't really a "critique" of Ravel/Debussy by the way. They aren't really intending to write music of the sort I like. It's just music preoccupied with how rich it can sound and I don't care for it.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 19, 2023, 08:45:12 AMBut Brahms wrote a ton more music than the examples you mentioned. And keep Ravel out of this! It's rich and ecstatically luxurious music! Lose yourself in it...
I can only speak about the music that I hear (i.e. orchestral.) People can dissuade me of Stanford's music being "genial" by posting alternative suggestions. I have heard many of Raff's symphonies and his music too seemed to lack the violence and frenzy of a Beethoven or the passion of a Tchaikovsky.
_
My characterization of Elgar certainly ruffled a few feathers here and something I stand by. Regardless of whether he was self-taught or not, my use of the word "academic" was to indicate the dryness of the music much like that of Bach of which the symphonies are certainly an example of. Of course people may well find Bach's music to evoke emotions within them but to me his music is just endlessly busy and fatiguing after a few minutes.
Quote from: lordlance on April 23, 2023, 09:58:41 PMYes, Ravel can be intoxicating and luxurious, sure. Hence "atmospheric" is how I would describe it much like Bax but certainly not high energy. Not La valse I agree. That is fun. I am thinking of dreary pieces like Nocturnes, Images or Daphnis et Chloé that seem content to sound 'luxurious' and 'intoxicating' but by God do they need to get going. This isn't really a "critique" of Ravel/Debussy by the way. They aren't really intending to write music of the sort I like. It's just music preoccupied with how rich it can sound and I don't care for it.
But even narrowing down to those three pieces - Nocturnes/Images/Daphnis - it's still an inaccurate description. The Nocturnes are two slow pieces enclosing a fast one. Daphnis is shot through with orgiastic, energetic dances. And Iberia - the biggest, most ambitious of the Images - is a slow movement in between two highly eventful, colourful, exciting and energetic fast movements. The truth is Debussy specialised in these highly refined, sensuous and evanescent textures which you describe, but they are only one part of his pallete. Indeed, looking at his work as a whole, rather than just the orchestral pieces from his 'impressionist' years which you describe, those (glorious) hedonistic moments are put into even more perspective. Think of the late Sonatas, or the Etudes, for instance. Ravel, in the meantime, is a different composer entirely, with more bittersweet piquancy and demonic drive than Debussy. Though there are fabulous slow movements aplenty they are always balanced out by something bubbling over with fantastic energy. For every Le Gibet there is a Scarbo, for every La vallee des cloches there is an Alborado del Grazioso.
Quote from: lordlance on April 23, 2023, 09:58:41 PMthe violence and frenzy of a Beethoven or the passion of a Tchaikovsky.
If violence, frenzy and passion is what you look for in music, then opera has it in spades, especially verismo.
Tosca,
Cavalleria rusticana,
Pagliacci, I
Zingari,
I Gioielli della Madonna --- one can't get more violent, frenzied and impassioned than that, although
Robert le Diable,
Les Huguenots,
Le Prophete and
Carmen come quite close. Just saying. :D
Quote from: lordlance on April 23, 2023, 09:58:41 PMmy use of the word "academic" was to indicate the dryness of the music much like that of Bach of which the symphonies are certainly an example of. Of course people may well find Bach's music to evoke emotions within them but to me his music is just endlessly busy and fatiguing after a few minutes.
I think you certainly win an award for most unpopular opinions in a single post! ;D
Quote from: DavidW on April 24, 2023, 05:58:05 AMI think you certainly win an award for most unpopular opinions in a single post! ;D
Maybe the plan.
A first listen (not yet complete) to this new Stanford disc;
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71UFtF1bhqL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
Its a very good performance - lovely fresh voices singing with urgency and conviction. Well recorded too by Hyperion. I started off thinking "this is great" but as the music progresses my enduring question about Stanford came back to me again quite unbidden. It IS a very attractive work, it IS well constructed etc etc....... but where are those moments of unique "no-one but Stanford could have written this...." to blow-the-listener-away that lift him out of the field of master-craftsman and into the world of unique visionary. This is a good example - and I do NOT mean this insultingly - of Stanford being a good 2nd tier composer.
I'm preparing to duck as Albion loads up the first retaliatory salvo...........
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 05, 2023, 02:28:41 AMA first listen (not yet complete) to this new Stanford disc;
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71UFtF1bhqL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
Its a very good performance - lovely fresh voices singing with urgency and conviction. Well recorded too by Hyperion. I started off thinking "this is great" but as the music progresses my enduring question about Stanford came back to me again quite unbidden. It IS a very attractive work, it IS well constructed etc etc....... but where are those moments of unique "no-one but Stanford could have written this...." to blow-the-listener-away that lift him out of the field of master-craftsman and into the world of unique visionary. This is a good example - and I do NOT mean this insultingly - of Stanford being a good 2nd tier composer.
I'm preparing to duck as Albion loads up the first retaliatory salvo...........
;D
It's Stanford in Italianate mode, which he adopted for all his large-scale Latin choral works (although for the Mass in G he took a lot from Dvorak to good effect). I think the Requiem is great stuff but not as splendid as the Stabat Mater. The problem when Stanford emulated Verdi (one of his idols) is that he often lost his individual voice which comes through stronger in the symphonies and Irish rhapsodies, also the secular choral music. Nevertheless it's great to have a new recording to supplement the Marco Polo/ Naxos. My copy is due to arrive whenever Royal Mail can find where I actually live, which always constitutes something of a minor miracle. What a bugger that the Cardiff concert (Te Deum and "Elegiac Ode") was cancelled due to something happening in London...
Quote from: Albion on May 05, 2023, 02:58:49 AM;D
It's Stanford in Italianate mode, which he adopted for all his large-scale Latin choral works (although for the Mass in G he took a lot from Dvorak to good effect). I think the Requiem is great stuff but not as splendid as the Stabat Mater. The problem when Stanford emulated Verdi (one of his idols) is that he often lost his individual voice which comes through stronger in the symphonies and Irish rhapsodies, also the secular choral music. Nevertheless it's great to have a new recording to supplement the Marco Polo/ Naxos. My copy is due to arrive whenever Royal Mail can find where I actually live, which always constitutes something of a minor miracle. What a bugger that the Cardiff concert (Te Deum and "Elegiac Ode") was cancelled due to something happening in London...
The great vocal moment early on at "Lux" is stunning - and sounds great on this new version. The chorus are youthful and fresh-voiced and clearly well trained. If I could only have one performance this one would probably replace the Leaper/Marco Polo version - but its not an easy "better than" choice. More a case that overall - bigger choir, better recorded etc - tips the scales. But then again you'd loose the "Veiled Prophet" excerpts. Leaper is about 6 minutes slower overall which I think some of the time works in his favour - a slightly weighter, reflective approach at points. But interpretatively for me its nip and tuck.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 05, 2023, 03:05:38 AMThe great vocal moment early on at "Lux" is stunning - and sounds great on this new version. The chorus are youthful and fresh-voiced and clearly well trained. If I could only have one performance this one would probably replace the Leaper/Marco Polo version - but its not an easy "better than" choice. More a case that overall - bigger choir, better recorded etc - tips the scales. But then again you'd loose the "Veiled Prophet" excerpts. Leaper is about 6 minutes slower overall which I think some of the time works in his favour - a slightly weighter, reflective approach at points. But interpretatively for me its nip and tuck.
Fully agreed, and the "Sanctus" is another great piece of writing. Quite why "Quam olim Abrahae" gets a bad press defeats me as it contributes to a well-rounded score with plenty of variety. For "The Veiled Prophet" you need the Wexford performance...
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tw3hsz518ud79/Stanford+-+The+Veiled+Prophet
Listened straight through to this new Requiem twice. The performance is absolutely top drawer. Really really good university choir superbly prepared. Brabbins characteristically well prepared too and draws excellent performances from all concerned. Some genuinely lovely passages but I still cannot be convinced that Stanford is anything but a very good 2nd tier composer. No disrespect in that intended - just everyone can't be a genius. The fact that this work was the last Birmingham Triennial Comission before Gerontius says it all. This is a well crafted work that often achieves passages of real beauty and power. Gerontius is a work of genuine genius - with some pretty awful bits along the way. Stanford may never be as banal as some parts of Gerontius but neither is he ever as inspired as other parts either........
Quote from: Roasted SwanNo disrespect in that intended - just everyone can't be a genius. Stanford may never be as banal as some parts of Gerontius but neither is he ever as inspired as other parts either........
I know this may come across as dreadfully clichéd, but in my experience it is also genuinely true - Stanford is exactly as you describe him, with the awesome and always-surprising exception of
The Bluebird which is unlike anyone else and which sounds a hundred years before its time. It's an inexplicable work - where the hell did it come from?! - using an extraordinary harmonic technique which sets a tiny number of harmonies lapping against each other like the gentle, hardly moving water of the mirror-smooth blue lake in which is reflected the bird (in the solo soprano's monosyllable Blue). Those harmonies are like a crystal, viewed rapturously from every angle. Quite exceptional, it tells me that there must have been genius inside Stanford... but I'd love to find other works which show it (I
have tried!)
Quote from: Albion on April 18, 2023, 08:55:22 AMAgreed, much as I love Brahms he never seems to get his kerjangers going. Compare with Dvorak and Tchaikovsky...
Well, to be fair it depends on the piece (and the performance). Sure, if we're talking about his Clarinet Quintet, for example, it's a beautiful work but rather lacking in dynamism. But take the finales of the 3rd and 4th symphonies or the scherzo of the Piano Quintet, for instance - some of the most viscerally thrilling music composed in the 19th century IMO!
Quote from: Brian on April 19, 2023, 11:50:01 AMI do think there is a pattern/trend of Brahms conducting that sells his vitality short. If people go too far down the "autumnal" road of interpretation, they can ignore some of the physicality that his music is full of.
100% agree!!!
Quote from: kyjo on May 08, 2023, 08:56:22 AMWell, to be fair it depends on the piece (and the performance). Sure, if we're talking about his Clarinet Quintet, for example, it's a beautiful work but rather lacking in dynamism. But take the finales of the 3rd and 4th symphonies or the scherzo of the Piano Quintet, for instance - some of the most viscerally thrilling music composed in the 19th century IMO!
Apologies on the derailment of this thread (perhaps some to this can be transferred over to the Brahms' thread), but I agree with you. In fact, I cannot think of a more brash and extroverted work than his 1st Piano Concerto!
What a lovely work the Requiem is although not as wonderful or structurally intriguing as the Stabat Mater (a "Symphonic Cantata"), Op.96. What Brabbins gains in vigour and a more reverberant recording he occasionally loses in clarity, what Leaper gains in breadth he occasionally loses a sense of intimacy in a dry acoustic. Both are fully viable interpretations...
Quote from: Albion on May 10, 2023, 12:41:18 PMWhat a lovely work the Requiem is although not as wonderful or structurally intriguing as the Stabat Mater (a "Symphonic Cantata"), Op.96. What Brabbins gains in vigour and a more reverberant recording he occasionally loses in clarity, what Leaper gains in breadth he occasionally loses a sense of intimacy in a dry acoustic. Both are fully viable interpretations...
Exactly so - perfectly put.
Brabbins recorded the Stanford Requiem? I thought the only recording of that was on Marco Polo/Naxos.
QuoteBrabbins recorded the Stanford Requiem? I thought the only recording of that was on Marco Polo/Naxos.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1OTIxNS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzYzNjg0OTV9)
new release this month. On balance "better" than the earlier version.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 11, 2023, 06:04:54 AM(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1OTIxNS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzYzNjg0OTV9)
new release this month. On balance "better" than the earlier version.
I'm still totally p*ssed off that the bun-fight in London ("Clap hands, here comes Charlie!") meant the cancellation of Adrian Partington's concert in Cardiff which was to have featured the Op.66 Te Deum and the Op.24 "Elegiac Ode" due for recording by Lyrita. As far as I know, it's not been rescheduled...
::)
It's easy to overlook recordings on small labels, but don't miss Stanford's Mass in G, Op.46 (1892) on a similar scale to Dvorak's contemporary Mass in D and just as enjoyable. It is on EM Records (EMR CD021). George de Voil does an excellent job with his forces and there's no problem with the soloists or chorus, although the strings are sometimes a bit recessed...
(https://em-records.com/discs-images-230/EMR-CD021.png)
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 11, 2023, 06:04:54 AM(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTQ1OTIxNS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NzYzNjg0OTV9)
Pleasing to see that it is No.1 in the current Specialist Classical Chart and is a "Gramophone" Editor's Choice...
;D
Also worth seeking out is a great disc by The King's Consort on the Vivat label (VIVAT 101) which gives you excellent performances of Stanford's own orchestrations of his Magnificat and Nunc dimittis settings in A, G, B flat and C. You also get great performances of Parry's "I was glad" in the 1911 version ("Vivat Regina Maria" and "Vivat Rex Georgius"), his wonderful 1911 "Coronation Te Deum", "Blest Pair of Sirens" and "Jerusalem" in Elgar's orchestration...
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.f877b60109b43ff9f2985b1c6b2c22dc?rik=W790GLEaDN8QPA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fcps-static.rovicorp.com%2f3%2fJPG_500%2fMI0003%2f522%2fMI0003522853.jpg%3fpartner%3dallrovi.com&ehk=G8aTFeOAySFF3M%2fTAGSjoVBT3raBlPF%2bV37MTHgcekc%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
Quote from: Albion on May 15, 2023, 01:52:59 AMAlso worth seeking out is a great disc by The King's Consort on the Vivat label (VIVAT 101) which gives you excellent performances of Stanford's own orchestrations of his Magnificat and Nunc dimittis settings in A, G, B flat and C. You also get great performances of Parry's "I was glad" in the 1911 version ("Vivat Regina Maria" and "Vivat Rex Georgius"), his wonderful 1911 "Coronation Te Deum", "Blest Pair of Sirens" and "Jerusalem" in Elgar's orchestration...
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.f877b60109b43ff9f2985b1c6b2c22dc?rik=W790GLEaDN8QPA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fcps-static.rovicorp.com%2f3%2fJPG_500%2fMI0003%2f522%2fMI0003522853.jpg%3fpartner%3dallrovi.com&ehk=G8aTFeOAySFF3M%2fTAGSjoVBT3raBlPF%2bV37MTHgcekc%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
For general information - this is all performed on period instruments. Although it includes no Stanford (sorry thread) Paul McCreesh's "An English Coronation, 1902-1953" on 2 discs is very impressive in terms of sound and scale. I'm not sure if the Gabrielli players use period instruments too? They play at modern pitch so probably not.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51EuOeAwZ5L._AC_SX569_.jpg)
The "Gramophone" review of the new Hyperion recording of the Requiem:
While much of Stanford's large-scale music suffered increasing neglect after his death in 1924, his Requiem, commissioned for the Birmingham Festival in 1897, enjoyed a modest degree of attention during the rest of the 20th century. Boult performed it with the BBC Symphony Orchestra in 1944 and Boris Ord at Cambridge in 1952 during the centenary of Stanford's birth. During the 1970s it attracted the attention of Raymond Leppard, who believed (perhaps somewhat conjecturally) that the Benedictus influenced the nature of Elgar's 'Enigma' theme, though this speculative connection (which found its way into an article in The Times on August 20, 1977) was backed up by the fact that Elgar heard Stanford play through his work at Birchwood in 1897 before its first public performance. Since then the work has received a fair number of hearings, both here (I also heard a fine performance of the work by the York Musical Society under Philip Moore some years ago) and abroad.
Dedicated to the memory of Lord Leighton, a close friend, the Requiem emanated from Stanford's instincts for dramatic music. By 1897 he had completed five operas, the last of which, Shamus O'Brien (1896), had enjoyed immense success in London, on tours around the UK, on Broadway, in Chicago and in Sydney; and previous choral works such as The Three Holy Children (1885), The Revenge (1886), Eden (1891) and The Voyage of Maeldune (1892) had also shown a conspicuous predisposition for the theatrical. With the precedents of Requiems by Verdi (who knew Stanford's score and admired it) and Dvořák (also commissioned by Birmingham in 1891), not to mention Alfred Bruneau's Requiem (now much neglected), which The Bach Choir performed in 1895, Stanford was well placed to conceive the large-scale symphonic structure of his work and it was this aspect that caught the audience's imagination when it was first performed. The ambience of the operatic nature of the Requiem is further enhanced by the presence of four prominent soloists (Stanford was later to emulate this model in the Te Deum, Op 66, the Stabat mater, Op 96, and the Mass Via Victrix, Op 173) who, as 'characters' in the drama, all perform on this recording with a sense of authority and commitment. Indeed, the soloists are spoilt for choice when it comes to the rich solo material – the sizeable tripartite structure of the Introit, Kyrie and Gradual, the gripping multi-movement sequence of the Dies irae (which puts Dvořák's in the shade), the euphonious Benedictus and, for me, the most moving of all, the Agnus Dei, in which the closing 'Lux aeterna' is one of the composer's greatest creations (I often have a lump in my throat at this point when the tenor enters).
Brabbins, who truly understands the language of this music, judges the tempos and balance of the ensemble with instinctive sensitivity; his handling of the chorus – the University of Birmingham Voices – is outstanding, and he genuinely brings out the luminosity of Stanford's lustrous orchestration, which is splendidly executed by the CBSO, especially in the lovely solos of the Dies irae, the arresting climax of the 'Lacrimosa', the swirling Rhinegold-like figurations of the Sanctus and the solemn funeral cortege of the Agnus (perhaps a depiction of Leighton's funeral and interment at St Paul's Cathedral). The chorus sing throughout with a youthful clarity, beauty of tone and lovely intonation. However, if I had to pick out moments of particular deftness, they would be the simple but captivating homophony of the Introit and Agnus, the arresting opening of the 'Domine Jesu Christe' and the agility of the inventive fugue in the Offertorium ('Quam olim Abrahae'), the gossamer textures of the Sanctus (which is like Undine emerging from the lake) and the grandeur of the choral responses to the soloists in the 'Lux aeterna'.
In 1997 the Requiem was issued by Marco Polo in a recording with the RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland under Colman Pearce. This was a most welcome recording at the time, but there is much more to learn about Stanford's choral masterpiece from the more cohesive architecture, sound and élan of this vibrant new issue from Hyperion. For anyone interested in British choral music of the period, it is a must!
A great and unusually informed review, despite a slip ("The Voyage of Maeldune" is 1889). This should ensure that this splendid work gets the proper attention that it deserves, although I think that his choral masterpiece remains the Stabat Mater...
;D
Quote from: Albion on May 18, 2023, 06:29:31 AMThe "Gramophone" review of the new Hyperion recording of the Requiem:
While much of Stanford's large-scale music suffered increasing neglect after his death in 1924, his Requiem, commissioned for the Birmingham Festival in 1897, enjoyed a modest degree of attention during the rest of the 20th century. Boult performed it with the BBC Symphony Orchestra in 1944 and Boris Ord at Cambridge in 1952 during the centenary of Stanford's birth. During the 1970s it attracted the attention of Raymond Leppard, who believed (perhaps somewhat conjecturally) that the Benedictus influenced the nature of Elgar's 'Enigma' theme, though this speculative connection (which found its way into an article in The Times on August 20, 1977) was backed up by the fact that Elgar heard Stanford play through his work at Birchwood in 1897 before its first public performance. Since then the work has received a fair number of hearings, both here (I also heard a fine performance of the work by the York Musical Society under Philip Moore some years ago) and abroad.
Dedicated to the memory of Lord Leighton, a close friend, the Requiem emanated from Stanford's instincts for dramatic music. By 1897 he had completed five operas, the last of which, Shamus O'Brien (1896), had enjoyed immense success in London, on tours around the UK, on Broadway, in Chicago and in Sydney; and previous choral works such as The Three Holy Children (1885), The Revenge (1886), Eden (1891) and The Voyage of Maeldune (1892) had also shown a conspicuous predisposition for the theatrical. With the precedents of Requiems by Verdi (who knew Stanford's score and admired it) and Dvořák (also commissioned by Birmingham in 1891), not to mention Alfred Bruneau's Requiem (now much neglected), which The Bach Choir performed in 1895, Stanford was well placed to conceive the large-scale symphonic structure of his work and it was this aspect that caught the audience's imagination when it was first performed. The ambience of the operatic nature of the Requiem is further enhanced by the presence of four prominent soloists (Stanford was later to emulate this model in the Te Deum, Op 66, the Stabat mater, Op 96, and the Mass Via Victrix, Op 173) who, as 'characters' in the drama, all perform on this recording with a sense of authority and commitment. Indeed, the soloists are spoilt for choice when it comes to the rich solo material – the sizeable tripartite structure of the Introit, Kyrie and Gradual, the gripping multi-movement sequence of the Dies irae (which puts Dvořák's in the shade), the euphonious Benedictus and, for me, the most moving of all, the Agnus Dei, in which the closing 'Lux aeterna' is one of the composer's greatest creations (I often have a lump in my throat at this point when the tenor enters).
Brabbins, who truly understands the language of this music, judges the tempos and balance of the ensemble with instinctive sensitivity; his handling of the chorus – the University of Birmingham Voices – is outstanding, and he genuinely brings out the luminosity of Stanford's lustrous orchestration, which is splendidly executed by the CBSO, especially in the lovely solos of the Dies irae, the arresting climax of the 'Lacrimosa', the swirling Rhinegold-like figurations of the Sanctus and the solemn funeral cortege of the Agnus (perhaps a depiction of Leighton's funeral and interment at St Paul's Cathedral). The chorus sing throughout with a youthful clarity, beauty of tone and lovely intonation. However, if I had to pick out moments of particular deftness, they would be the simple but captivating homophony of the Introit and Agnus, the arresting opening of the 'Domine Jesu Christe' and the agility of the inventive fugue in the Offertorium ('Quam olim Abrahae'), the gossamer textures of the Sanctus (which is like Undine emerging from the lake) and the grandeur of the choral responses to the soloists in the 'Lux aeterna'.
In 1997 the Requiem was issued by Marco Polo in a recording with the RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland under Colman Pearce. This was a most welcome recording at the time, but there is much more to learn about Stanford's choral masterpiece from the more cohesive architecture, sound and élan of this vibrant new issue from Hyperion. For anyone interested in British choral music of the period, it is a must!
A great and unusually informed review, despite a slip ("The Voyage of Maeldune" is 1889). This should ensure that this splendid work gets the proper attention that it deserves, although I think that his choral masterpiece remains the Stabat Mater...
;D
It kinda annoyed me that this reviewer felt the need to take a swipe at Dvorak's Requiem (an underrated masterpiece in my view) in order to "elevate" the Stanford. Granted, I haven't heard Stanford's Requiem yet, but I can't imagine it being a greater work than Dvorak's... ::)
A couple months ago, I listened to this disc with much pleasure:
(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH8884.jpg)
The infrequently-mentioned 4th Symphony can easily stand with Stanford's two other finest efforts in the genre IMO (the 3rd and 6th). The outer movements show Stanford at his most unbuttoned and Dvorakian, and the main theme of the first movement is particularly confident and memorable. The Brahmsian-intermezzo-like 2nd movement is a bit of a low-key affair, but the ensuing slow movement is (surprisingly) dramatic and even tragic in places.
The Irish Rhapsody no. 6 for violin and orchestra is a throughly charming and folksy concoction, as one would expect, not reveling in the dramatic and coloristic effects of the magnificent 2nd and 4th rhapsodies. And the Prelude to Oedipus Rex encapsulates the same vein of semi-tragic nobility than infuses the slow movement of the 4th Symphony. An all-around wonderful Stanford disc!
Quote from: kyjo on May 27, 2023, 09:19:22 AMIt kinda annoyed me that this reviewer felt the need to take a swipe at Dvorak's Requiem (an underrated masterpiece in my view) in order to "elevate" the Stanford. Granted, I haven't heard Stanford's Requiem yet, but I can't imagine it being a greater work than Dvorak's... ::)
I listened to the Hyperion recording for the first time yesterday (NB I've never heard the Requiem before).
It struck me as a big High Romantic work, but my attention strayed more than a few times.
ETA
Listening again
Attention wanders from time to time, but less than yesterday.
It's more somber and reflective than most settings of the Requiem, especially in the Sequence (Dies Irae).
Great news that the "Elegiac Ode" and the Op.66 Te Deum HAVE been recorded for Lyrita, despite the cancellation of the concert in Cardiff...
https://www.thestanfordsociety.org/2023/05/30/a-note-from-the-chairman-may-2023/
8)
Quote from: Luke on April 23, 2023, 11:13:46 PMBut even narrowing down to those three pieces - Nocturnes/Images/Daphnis - it's still an inaccurate description. The Nocturnes are two slow pieces enclosing a fast one. Daphnis is shot through with orgiastic, energetic dances. And Iberia - the biggest, most ambitious of the Images - is a slow movement in between two highly eventful, colourful, exciting and energetic fast movements. The truth is Debussy specialised in these highly refined, sensuous and evanescent textures which you describe, but they are only one part of his pallete. Indeed, looking at his work as a whole, rather than just the orchestral pieces from his 'impressionist' years which you describe, those (glorious) hedonistic moments are put into even more perspective. Think of the late Sonatas, or the Etudes, for instance. Ravel, in the meantime, is a different composer entirely, with more bittersweet piquancy and demonic drive than Debussy. Though there are fabulous slow movements aplenty they are always balanced out by something bubbling over with fantastic energy. For every Le Gibet there is a Scarbo, for every La vallee des cloches there is an Alborado del Grazioso.
Hello again after 6 months. I hadn't forgotten. Just hadn't gotten round to trying more of Ravel/Debussy. A few thoughts:
1. Tried Pelleas extracts (Abbado/BPO) and gave up 4 minutes in. Another example of sensuousness and atmospheric sounds being the end-goal. This isn't some sort of scathing critique BTW. This is an aesthetic. Just incredibly boring one for me.
2. I tried only Fetes from Nocturnes. Yes I suppose I got a minute of music that's somewhat propulsive but surrounded by 5 minutes of music preoccupied with sounding very beautiful.
3. Some other pieces reflect earlier remarks - Ravel Pavane, Debussy Images Iberia I.
Not
all Ravel and Debussy is bad of course. I sort of like La mer and Albardo. La valse is good fun. Ravel's best is of course Pictures' orchestration. A masterpiece.
And meanwhile, back in England, there was a composer named Charles Villiers Stanford ...
To be released on 5 July:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYyNTcxMS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTUxNzg5ODJ9)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 08, 2024, 11:26:40 AMTo be released on 5 July:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYyNTcxMS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTUxNzg5ODJ9)
Oooh er - I'm up for this!
Absolutely bloody fantastic. This will complete the wonderful trilogy of large-scale Latin works: Requiem (1896-97), Te Deum (1897-9) and the Stabat mater (1906-1907). Attention should then turn to the finest of the unrecorded secular works: The Voyage of Maeldune (1889), Phaudrig Crohoore (1896) and Merlin and the Gleam (1918). ;D ;D 8)
Was listening to this fantastic disc the other day:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81aPhtvWhnL._SX425_.jpg)
This was my first time hearing Stanford's Piano Quintet in D minor, Op. 25, and I can immediately proclaim it as one of his very finest works, maybe even a masterpiece! (The piano quintet medium really brought out the best in some composers.) Actually, the first few minutes of the work weren't terribly promising or remarkable to me, but the first movement soon gathers steam and power. The scherzo is an agitated minor-key affair, while the slow movement is beautiful and not without depth. Best of all may be the finale, which builds to a genuinely thrilling conclusion that's not without some unexpected touches. Seriously, this piece has one of the most exciting and effective endings I've heard recently! Unsurprisingly, the shadow of Brahms hangs lightly (*not* looms) over the music, but it doesn't lack in character or distinctiveness.
The accompanying String Quintet No. 1 in F major, Op. 85 isn't as grand or immediately arresting as the Piano Quintet, but it's still a fine work in its own right with a charming bucolic demeanor and some engaging development, especially in the variation-form finale. The performances here are simply superb - the RTE Vanbrugh Quartet and pianist Piers Lane really throw themselves into the Piano Quintet with raging conviction and technical assurance. Simply put, if you enjoy Romantic Era chamber music, don't miss this disc!