One of my latest discoveries, certainly deserves a thread.
For people unknown to his music, I can recommend this disc:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/600/603600.jpg)
Does anyone here got a recording of his Violin concerto?
violinconcerto, I have no recording of Donatoni's violin concerto, but I did recently purchase Jurgis Juozapaitis' album, Tower Counterpoints, which opens with a piece called Solo Contra Tutti, which turns out to be a violin concerto, and I thought of you.
I have the disc the OP mentioned, which is very fine, and the orchestral works, vol. 2, which has Arie, Voci, Prom, and Doubles II. It's all good, but time, I think, to get some more.
To my knowledge I've only heard a couple of his chamber works, but the best by far was Arpège (1986), played by the sextet eighth blackbird about two years ago. Just fantastic. Here (http://www.opus3artists.com/news/?id=162) is a review of their 2007 performance of it in Philadelphia.
--Bruce
Quote from: violinconcerto on November 17, 2008, 09:32:24 AM
Does anyone here got a recording of his Violin concerto?
Did he write one? I know he studied the violin but I do not remember any violin concerto or work for violin and orchestra.
What does he sound like/any similarities to other composers?
Quote from: UB on November 17, 2008, 01:37:42 PM
Did he write one? I know he studied the violin but I do not remember any violin concerto or work for violin and orchestra.
I once came across a note that he wrote a violin concerto and so put it into my "search list", but cannot recall the source. But additionally I found a note about the Divertimento by Donatoni which is for violin and orchestra as well:
http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=SHOTK00891 (http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=SHOTK00891)
Quote from: some guyI did recently purchase Jurgis Juozapaitis' album, Tower Counterpoints, which opens with a piece called Solo Contra Tutti, which turns out to be a violin concerto, and I thought of you.
Thats nice, thank you. I have a recording of that work as well and will give it a listen this evening! :D
Lethe, sorry for the delay. I find it difficult to say who practically anyone sounds like, other than themselves. One hears a lot of Varese in Corcoran, at least at first, and a lot of Bartok in Veress. Almost everyone has a few early pieces that sound like their teachers or other influences. But the better ones always transcend that.
I suppose one could say that Donatoni is more like Solbiati or even Berio than he is like Scelsi or Nono, if that's any help!
Violinconcerto, you're very welcome. I was recently in Vilnius and so picked up several albums of Lithuanian music, much of it very good indeed. (Though the pick of the lot was a CD of contemporary Irish music that Grainne Mulvey was carrying around with her.)
Quote from: some guy on November 29, 2008, 04:36:18 PM
Lethe, sorry for the delay. I find it difficult to say who practically anyone sounds like, other than themselves. One hears a lot of Varese in Corcoran, at least at first, and a lot of Bartok in Veress. Almost everyone has a few early pieces that sound like their teachers or other influences. But the better ones always transcend that.
I suppose one could say that Donatoni is more like Solbiati or even Berio than he is like Scelsi or Nono, if that's any help!
It does - especially the last sentence, thank you.
Donatoni's "return", or beginning late period (mid '70s), to me, is one of the most original and fun searches for a new language. In almost everything I've heard (6 discs) he simply takes an upward moving scale and "develops/varies?" it over the course of the piece, creating a great complexity. The sound is infectiously bubbly and bouncy, and, for a composer of high modernism, FUN! Kind of like an allegro Feldman, though with more variety (like a regular composer, haha).
All the Stradivarius discs are good, but the OP's (Henk?) original Stradivarious (Ash, Arpege, For Grilly, etc...) was my first encounter with Donatoni, and it was love at first sight. He was the first avant that really appealed to me musically, in a joy of music sense, in an Italian melodic way.
Donatoni is also the poster child for droolworthy out of print labels Harmonic, Adda, Accord, and 2e2m. If you have any of these (I have a couple somewhere), you know.
He is also author of one of the most delicious cycle of solo instrumental pieces, and for me, I might rather have a complete set of Donatoni rather than Berio's Sequenzas. I think they're that good. One of the Strad discs covers an interesting selection of these solo pieces.
As this late period developed until his death, he began writing interchangeble..."titles"...Is, IIs, IIIs, IVs...Cloches I, Cloches II being the best example. It starts to get a little confusing here, and I haven't delved into this late late period yet (kind of piece meal on cd right now). But Donatoni definitely seems to be popping up on a lot of recital discs, from violin to bass clarinet to percussion, and everything in between.
Considering that it was one of those composerly fits of deepest depression over serialism that brought Donatoni to his late style, it's great how his music became so...happy sounding!
I don't know the details, but serialist Donatoni apparently wrote his SQ No.4 Zrcaldo (1964) utilizing the newspaper classifieds, or something desperate like that!
A)In a way, I wish jazz sounded more like this.
B)Ultimately, I have a hard time saying anything bad about the Italians.
Seriously? >:D :'(
I recently missed out on the two 2e2m/Mefano discs of Donatoni, and went a-searchin' for something else. Like I said,...uh,...in my last post ::), it seems like I've got almost every other chamber disc that has about five pieces per, when I saw this newish Strad cd with guitar/ensemble pieces on it. And hey, Wellesz put them all on YouTube! Yay!
So, it seems like a great album (one piece is madolin, mandola, guitar), but the recording seems a bit 'something' (too up front?, too dry?, a little hard?), and, honestly, after a while of these late decade pieces, I was kind of eager to get back to that original Strad/chamber disc (w/For Grilly). Haven't got there yet. The above piece I mentioned is pretty interesting, though. Check out 'Donatoni Poll' on the YouTube Search and go from there.
I see there is now also a '10 Year Anniversary' album from Strad, which includes Hot and Flag, but, unfortunately, seems to be entirely available elsewhere. No really new pieces.
That leaves the 2-3 orchestral cds which I'm not feelin' at the moment, and a few stray pieces on some very expensive cds, ugh. Maybe I'll shoot for his cool guitar piece, Algo (which, incidently, is on that first cd), which I used to have on an interesting Ondine disc.
The Francoise Variations James mentioned is also on the radar, though the entire disc of Donatoni Piano Music may be too much for me at the moment (already have Rima).
oh, and then there's Rasch II for sax quartet and 4?/6? percussionists, which is on a lot of different cds. That piece has that old Donatoni bounce.
oh great, that's about $100 for all that. :-\
ah, someguy, I was hoping you show up!
Quote from: violinconcerto on November 23, 2008, 10:43:11 AM
I once came across a note that he wrote a violin concerto and so put it into my "search list", but cannot recall the source. But additionally I found a note about the Divertimento by Donatoni which is for violin and orchestra as well:
http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=SHOTK00891 (http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=SHOTK00891)
As far as I know the Divertimento IS the VC. Very sure there is no mature work.
Thats nice, thank you. I have a recording of that work as well and will give it a listen this evening! :D
Has anyone heard the Stradivarius disc with all the Chamber Works with Guitar (Algo, Algo IV, Poll, About,...)?
Snyprrr wrote
QuoteIn a way, I wish jazz sounded more like this.
Interesting - I only have one Donatoni CD (apart from
Tema/Cadeau on that great Erato CD with Ligeti), a superb chamber ensemble collection conducted by Mefano (btw you can still get it for a reasonable price on Amazon.de) with
Lumen etc - I really must follow that up - and the one comparison that comes to mind is some of Franz Koglmann's work, especially as regards that FUN quality you praise (though of course Koglmann denies that the stuff he does is jazz - but he sure plays with a lot of jazz musicians...).
Quote from: mjwal on January 16, 2011, 05:54:20 AM
Snyprrr wroteInteresting - I only have one Donatoni CD (apart from Tema/Cadeau on that great Erato CD with Ligeti), a superb chamber ensemble collection conducted by Mefano (btw you can still get it for a reasonable price on Amazon.de) with Lumen etc - I really must follow that up - and the one comparison that comes to mind is some of Franz Koglmann's work, especially as regards that FUN quality you praise (though of course Koglmann denies that the stuff he does is jazz - but he sure plays with a lot of jazz musicians...).
I think the Strad disc with Lumen, Arpege, etc,... is thee best Donatoni disc, mainly because the sound is very nice. I'm sure the Mefanos are nice too, though.
Of course, with amazon.de's $16 shipping, haha,...
Quote from: snyprrr on January 15, 2011, 08:39:02 PM
Has anyone heard the Stradivarius disc with all the Chamber Works with Guitar (Algo, Algo IV, Poll, About,...)?
Yes, it's great.
Quote from: James on January 16, 2011, 08:28:25 AM
Yea that disc has some nice stuff ... but be sure to check out the Francoise Variations it's a very wonderful thing .. and one of the best modern classical piano solos i've ever heard. Top Donatoni composition.
ok, you've convinced me. It IS a substantial piece,... I'm on a piano bender as it is, though I haven't bought yet (see CDCDCD Thread, haha).
Quote from: James on January 16, 2011, 08:28:25 AM
Yea that disc has some nice stuff ... but be sure to check out the Francoise Variations it's a very wonderful thing .. and one of the best modern classical piano solos i've ever heard. Top Donatoni composition.
Just arrived. Will get back on the FV.
Quote from: James on January 16, 2011, 08:28:25 AM
Yea that disc has some nice stuff ... but be sure to check out the Francoise Variations it's a very wonderful thing .. and one of the best modern classical piano solos i've ever heard. Top Donatoni composition.
Earlier, I just listened to Track 8, which was in the middle of the piece, and didn't think I'd be convinced, but when I just heard it from the beginning, I must say indeed that it is quite a scintillating 35min piece of music. As with all FD, it's totally meaningless up and down, but it's so joyous and fun sounding that it convinces you that this is what all music should sound like! I did notice how Track 8 was different, and only works for me in context. He certainly gets great mileage from vapors!
The companion Gorli pieces I also found interesting, still web-like, but much more delicate and mysterious. FD is more like Feldman and Xenakis, in that dynamics seem to be somewhat irrelevant.
I spent some a little time with Berio and Scelsi, but so far the little exposure I have from youtube with Donatoni has really blown my mind!!
Ash, Lumen and especially Ave simply sound GREAT. Very modern, and yet (I feel) approachable, with lovely orchestral color! I find his music quite clear, it never tries to overload you with notes. :P (not that I necessarely dislike that).
It sounds like he isn't that well known, which is really sad! Incidentally, he also taught Salonen (one of my favorite contemporary composers). Coincidence? Hmmm...
EDIT: After a closer listen to Ash, I hear some similarities to Xenakis, and that is a good thing! :D
Quote from: raduneo on March 17, 2012, 07:35:39 PM
I spent some a little time with Berio and Scelsi, but so far the little exposure I have from youtube with Donatoni has really blown my mind!!
Ash, Lumen and especially Ave simply sound GREAT. Very modern, and yet (I feel) approachable, with lovely orchestral color! I find his music quite clear, it never tries to overload you with notes. :P (not that I necessarely dislike that).
It sounds like he isn't that well known, which is really sad! Incidentally, he also taught Salonen (one of my favorite contemporary composers). Coincidence? Hmmm...
EDIT: After a closer listen to Ash, I hear some similarities to Xenakis, and that is a good thing! :D
But he uses a lot of notes to make all the 'bubbles'. I see most of his cheerful music as bubbles on escalators, ot something. In a way, he's very simplistic, in that he likes to go 'up' and 'down' a lot, but, hey, this is music, .meaningles' notes (abstract to the core) that just sound full of like all by themselves.
I remember getting that Stradivarius disc back in the day, the one with
Ash and
Lumen (awesome cover back then, not the drab one used now). Donatoni is an instant hut that's for sure. Yes, more people here should like him, if they'd check out any one of his... well, those two pieces are good starters.
Arpege.
Donatoni is fun to listen to. ;)
Quote from: James on March 18, 2012, 07:42:06 AM
Light years ahead of someone like Xenakis because
Stand and Deliver!!! :o
Quote from: James on March 18, 2012, 07:42:06 AM
Donatoni is a very brilliant and clever composer. Light years ahead of someone like Xenakis because his music has a fantastic inner life, it's more than just blobs or swarms of sound. It's richer, better-crafted and more refined. Recently I have been listening to some of his music .. few touch him in chamber formats, he had an ear & imagination there that was stellar .. but his larger pieces and pieces for percussion instruments that I have heard are equally as great. He certainly deserves to be better known, and there is a lot of uncharted territory there for future generations to traverse & explore.
That's quite a beautiful description you wrote there of Donatoni, James! You convinced me to spend more time listening to him in the near future!
I do feel that Xenakis is really good at a specific kind of music (but perhaps doesn't go further than that); specifically he is very good at describing chaos, the sounds of nature, but with almost no human element. (there is passion under the surface though I feel). When I say this, I am thinking of Shaar, Anemoessa (those howling voices really make an impression), some of his harpsichord works, his piano concertos, his string quartets, his percussion works, Metastasis, and especially Jonchaies!
I do have to agree though that Donatoni's music definitely has more inner life, and is often more imaginative. Donatoni's music, while quite modernist, has that human element that Xenakis often lacks. it's why I don't really enjoy Robert Simpson's music.
I do recall reading somewhere that you are like modern music quite a bit. What are in your opinion some of the greatest modern/contemporary composers?
Quote from: raduneo on April 22, 2012, 06:32:07 PM
I do recall reading somewhere that you are like modern music quite a bit. What are in your opinion some of the greatest modern/contemporary composers?
I'm not James, but from what I've read, he likes Stockhausen (obviously), Boulez, Birtwistle, and Ligeti.
Donatoni is Da Bomb. I listened to his music some days ago, really impressed. It's not just fun, this is high level classical music. I am not on that level to appreciate this music fully, as I am with Sciarrino or Aperghis to my feeling. It will take years, decennia to get on that level, to appreciate it fully.
Quote from: Henk on September 05, 2012, 08:44:14 AM
Donatoni is Da Bomb. I listened to his music some days ago, really impressed. It's not just fun, this is high level classical music. I am not on that level to appreciate this music fully, as I am with Sciarrino or Aperghis to my feeling. It will take years, decennia to get on that level, to appreciate it fully.
Try Harder!! ;) ;D Soon the world economy will collapse and you will have to concentrate on other things! :o
Quote from: James on October 20, 2012, 03:21:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/XPyiEo4uLw0
Ensemble Intercontemporain.
Director. Pierre Boulez
nice
I'm also considering that Strad disc with the guitar/ensemble pieces, very bouncy sounding samples.
Also, a new Donatoni recording, the solo cello along with... wait for it... wait... Bach. ::)
Who has the Strad sic with 'Voci' and 'Proms'? How is that, say, compared to that YET OTHER Strad disc with 'Duo pour Bruno'? AAHHHH!! I'm on an Italian frenzy that's out to destroy by bank account!!!!!!
Quote from: snyprrr on March 26, 2014, 10:24:09 AM
I'm also considering that Strad disc with the guitar/ensemble pieces, very bouncy sounding samples.
Just ordered, and yes, I had to post it!
Donatoni I can handle a little better than Maderna, but I do notice the same tendency to make this slightly uncomfortable on purpose.
Quote from: James on July 19, 2014, 12:38:30 PM
Looking forward to this one ..
[asin]B00KTQLFUE[/asin]
[01] In Cauda II (1993/1994) 18:18
[02] In Cauda III (1996) 13:27
[03] Esa (In Cauda V) (2000) 10:33
[04] Prom (1999) 12:33
[05] Duo pour Bruno (1974/1975) 19:25
total time: 74:22
Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra
Yoichi Sugiyama conductor
(wipes drool from keyboard!)
Heym yeam wow! That almost wipes out those two $$$ Strad discs! What a great way to follow up that Maderna. Cool, awesome!! I was hoping sooomething good would come out this year (Ferneyhough/Arditti).
Can anyone confirm or deny the quality of the NEOS disc of 'Orchestral Works'?
I haven't cracked open Donatoni in quite some time, and I've got a quite sizable Discography.
This is a great piece
https://www.youtube.com/v/VmlAHFgxy9c
so I'm late to the Donatoni party... this guy's amazing!
After binge-listening to Spiri, Ash, Arpège, and such, I've decided to buy a CD (or 2... or 3).
Quote from: schnittkease on October 15, 2017, 10:16:50 AM
so I'm late to the Donatoni party... this guy's amazing!
After binge-listening to Spiri, Ash, Arpège, and such, I've decided to buy a CD (or 2... or 3).
get the Stradivarius with those works you listed, get that first...
Then maybe that NEOS disk...
I've got most of the main Donatoni discs... yea, he will get you a'collectin'
How would you describe Donatoni's style?
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 16, 2017, 11:18:34 AM
How would you describe Donatoni's style?
Arrogant.
And like going on a walk - you hear this, then you hear that and now let's stroll this way, oh no, this is boring, let's try down there . . .
When you're in the mood it's a real tonic.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 15, 2020, 05:07:19 AM
Arrogant.
And like going on a walk - you hear this, then you hear that and now let's stroll this way, oh no, this is boring, let's try down there . . .
Don't listen to him! :P
Interesting university thesis on him here
https://api.research-repository.uwa.edu.au/portalfiles/portal/80742963/THESIS_DOCTOR_OF_MUSICAL_ARTS_SMITH_Ashley_William_2020.pdf
Thesis on Ferneyhough, but interesting because of it's dicussion of Ferneyhough's relationship with Donatoni
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/108947.pdf
Paper on the Donatoni quartets
http://www.ems-network.org/IMG/pdf_EMS14_avantaggiato.pdf
[
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3085882167_10.jpg)
Quartetto Contemporaneo play the 4th quartet - excellent - here. Well worth perusing the other LP transfers available from the same source - Kipepeo Publishing.
https://www.kipepeopublishing.com/