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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: SonicMan46 on March 14, 2009, 02:29:05 PM

Title: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 14, 2009, 02:29:05 PM
As an amateur woodworker, I love wooden instruments, both old & new, or modern reproductions made faithfully to historic models, such as harpsichords, Baroque flutes/oboes, and so many others.

So, this is a thread about musical instruments, esp. those of historic interest - posts can be broad, e.g. discussion of specific instruments or families (e.g. viols), performances standards (such as the type & nature of bows for stringed instruments), experiences with hearing (or playing) some of these older instruments, books/museums/exhibits concerning musical instruments (e.g. I love visiting the Met in NYC and spending time looking at all that is available in their historic instrument collection).

But, I'll make a first discussion post on the lute, an ancient instrument likely introduced into Europe by the Iberian invasion of the Moors, and modified for many centuries peaking in popularity in the 16th & early 17th centuries; I own a lot of stringed instrument music, including many recordings on the lute, but just received the one below in the mail:

Jakob Lindberg playing Weiss lute compositions on the 'Sixtus Rauwolf lute', an instrument dating from 1590 and beautifully restored - an abbreviated description (more details in the CD booklet) of the lute is quoted below from Lindberg's website -

Quote
In 1991 I bought a very rare original lute at Sotheby's in London by Sixtus Rauwolf, a prolific luthier who lived and worked in Augsburg. Only three other lutes by him have survived; one is in the Metropolitan Museum in New York, one in the Claudius Collection in Copenhagen and one in a private collection in England. My instrument is from c 1590 and was originally a 7 or 8 course lute. Inside there is a repair label by Leonard Mausiel, dated Nuremberg 1715 and the present neck, which allows for ten or eleven courses, is probably made by him. Dendochronology confirms that the soundboard is original and dates it 1423-1560. This instrument is thus to my knowledge the oldest lute in playing condition with its original soundboard.

(http://www.musicamano.com/discography/samples/bis1524.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 14, 2009, 05:40:55 PM
I subscribe to a number of woodworking publications, including the American Woodworker - I was reading the newest issue today and there was a short feature on a harpshichord maker named Ernest Miller, who lives on the east coast of North Carolina (my home state) - was shocked that I'd never even heard of this guy (and another 'famous' maker of harpsichords was his neighbor!) - apparently, during the Napoleonic era when 'pianos' where replacing harpsichords the latter were being used as 'firewood', so plenty of the older instruments were lost.

Miller makes some excellent looking (and expensive!) instruments - take a look @ his Website HERE (http://ernestmillerharpsichords.com/); the French & Franco-French 'dual manual' models list at $16,000!  One example shown below - apparently a lot of options regarding decoration (his wife does much of the art work) and keyboard options.   :D

(http://ernestmillerharpsichords.com/images/biggraybk.gif)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on March 14, 2009, 05:57:57 PM
That's a lovely harpsichord, Dave! I have seen many pictures of original Klavieren, and they virtually all had beautifully decorated cases. It seems a given that the makers of the 18th century were either woodworkers themselves, else they employed first-rate ones. Of course, since owning an instrument was pretty much a venture for the wealthy (the price you quote is likely a reasonable equivalent of what they were then), it stands to reason that they would want aesthetically pleasing cabinet work along with their de mode clavier... :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 15, 2009, 08:52:30 AM
Crystal Flutes - below is a post quoted from the 'old' forum from the end of 2005 - another fascinating older instrument - have not listened to that CD since then - but the playing is distinct & different; here's a link to Old French Flutes (http://www.oldflutes.com/french.htm) - just scroll down the page to some discussion & pics of the crystal ones -  :D

Quote
Just returned from a short Washington, D.C. vacation - one site visited was the Library of Congress (Jefferson Bldg.) - just beautiful, esp. the domed main reading room - picked up the CD below in the gift shop; I had heard about crystal flutes (this one made by Claude Laurent in 1813 for President Madison), but had never heard one before.

Rob Turner - HERE (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2000/24/images/crystalflute.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2000/24/flute.html&usg=__6wZVbirZQpp25h2EKY2o2_-HNE8=&h=307&w=300&sz=28&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=HkjMBspygBiZJM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmadison%2Bcrystal%2Bflute%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DKUS_enUS242US242%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1) - plays the glass flute usually accompanied by Frank Wallace on the guitar.  The sound is amazingly clear like a bell - any comments on this instrument from our flutists, esp. about the sound compared to wood or metal flutes?  Has anyone played one of these glass instruments?  Thanks. 


(http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2000/24/images/crystalflute.jpg)  (http://www.oldflutes.com/im/comp/laur.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Brian on March 15, 2009, 11:01:32 AM
Keith Hill, a Michigan-based harpsichord maker, is apparently something of a legend in the realm - he even paints the elaborate artwork on all of his instruments. Examples of Keith Hill's work have graced several Naxos album covers (not to mention the recordings themselves); his harpsichords and other instruments have been used by several other recording artists, notably Robert Hill, Anthony Newman, and Andreas Staier; the Musica Antiqua Koln Brandenburg Concertos with Staier include a Hill harpsichord, for instance.

Click for full size of some of the artwork on his instruments:

(http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313013975__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313013975__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313265428__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313265428__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/112/441/11244179/600x600.jpg) (http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/112/441/11244179/600x600.jpg)


I'm a big admirer of Mr. Hill's work, both musically and artistically. His workshop is in Manchester, Michigan, but his website is easier to reach (http://keithhillharpsichords.com/). :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on March 15, 2009, 12:38:06 PM
What a great idea is this thread, Dave! Congratulations.

Your link about the Madisons’ meetings recalled to me the glass harmonica (also glassharmonica, glass armonica, Armonica de verre in French, Glasharmonika in German).

I just have heard one time this instrument in the Adagio in C major KV 536 (617a), included in the Brilliant’s Mozart Edition (Klavierstüke Vol. III, track 10), but it’s really wonderful.

Here some lines from the booklet:

“The glass harmonica was invented by Benjamin Franklin, the instrument consisting of assembly of crystal bowls arranged by semitones and placed one within the other without touching. A pedal then turned the mechanism to turn the assembly of bowls, which where then made to vibrate by the player touching dampened fingers to the edges of the bowls. The instrument had a great success in Vienna”.

More information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_harmonica#Works

This instrument quickly dropped into the oblivion for strange reasons:

“The instrument's popularity did not last far beyond the 18th century. Some claim this was due to strange rumors that using the instrument caused both musicians and their listeners to go mad. (It is a matter of conjecture how pervasive that belief was; all the commonly cited examples of this rumor are German, if not confined to Vienna.) This was not true nor are the other superstitions listed below.

“One example of fear from playing the glass harmonica was noted by a German musicologist Friedrich Rochlitz in Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung where it is stated that "the armonica excessively stimulates the nerves, plunges the player into a nagging depression and hence into a dark and melancholy mood that is apt method for slow self-annihilation. If you are suffering from any nervous disorder, you should not play it; if you are not yet ill you should not play it; if you are feeling melancholy you should not play it."

“One armonica player, Marianne Kirchgessner died at the age of 39 of pneumonia or an illness much like it. See her obituary, written by her manager Heinrich Bossler in the Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung May 10, 1809. However, others, including Franklin, lived long lives. By 1820 the glass armonica had disappeared from public performance, perhaps because musical fashions were changing — music was moving out of the relatively small aristocratic halls of Mozart's day into the increasingly large concert halls of Beethoven and his successors, and the delicate sound of the armonica simply could not be heard. The harpsichord disappeared at about the same time — perhaps for the same reason.

“A modern version of the "purported dangers" claims that players suffered lead poisoning because armonicas were made of lead glass. However, there is no known scientific basis for the theory that merely touching lead glass can cause lead poisoning. Furthermore, many modern versions, such as those made by Finkenbeiner, are made from pure silica glass.[13] It is known that lead poisoning was common in the 18th and early 19th centuries for both armonica players and non-players alike: doctors prescribed lead compounds for a long list of ailments, lead oxide was used as a preservative in food and beverages, food was cooked in tin/lead pots which gave off lead fumes--the tin protected the food, and acidic beverages were commonly drunk from lead pewter vessels. Even if armonica players of Franklin's day somehow received trace amounts of lead from their instruments, that would likely have been dwarfed by the lead they were receiving from other sources”.





Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on March 15, 2009, 01:00:03 PM
I'm a big admirer of Mr. Hill's work, both musically and artistically.

I totally agree, Brian. His works are amazing.

Derek Adlam and Dmitry Badiarov (http://violadabraccio.com/) are another two names to remember in this same way.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Brian on March 15, 2009, 01:43:09 PM
Just noticed that Naxos has posted an interview with harpsichordist Elizabeth Farr about her work with Keith Hill and the types of harpsichords she plays:
Quote
STEPHEN - Could you tell us about some of the unusual keyboard instruments that you play? Why you like them? How important is choosing the right instrument for the repertoire? We've come a long way from Wanda Landowska's six-cylinder hyper-harpsichords—what choices does a contemporary performer have to make when choosing an instrument? Are there any instrument-makers whose work you particularly admire?

ELIZABETH - My answer to this question centers on Keith Hill.  While I am perfectly happy to play lots of different harpsichords, when the choice has been mine it has repeatedly been for harpsichords built by Keith Hill.  His instruments are resonant, acoustically well structured, and capable of real expression.  And to me, in the most tactile sense, the feeling of playing them coupled to the sound I hear is magical.  Just as with any instrument, the player contributes to the quality of the sound but cannot solely create it.  Choosing specific harpsichords for each of my recordings is something I have routinely consulted on with Keith.  But while we decide to use a certain harpsichord because it will suit the requirements of a particular repertoire, I think listeners will simply appreciate that it is a good sound and that the music can speak with integrity to them via the sound.  That’s all that really counts.

As to the unusual nature of these instruments, for listeners the two that most qualify for this distinction are the lute-harpsichord and the harpsichord that includes a 16-foot stop.  The latter is a slightly longer and deeper harpsichord case that houses a 16’ stop, two 8’ stops, and one 4’ stop.  This particular 16-foot harpsichord also has two buff stops.  It was heard in the Byrd recording mentioned above, and will also be heard in two releases that are coming up later this year from Naxos.  The lute-harpsichord is a standard size harpsichord that has two 8’ stops strung in gut and a 4’ stop strung in brass, specifications taken from those requested by JS Bach himself in the 18th century.

In addition to these, I have recorded on Taskin and Blanchet style French harpsichords, and a Flemish style instrument after the Ruckers housed in the museum in Colmar, all built by Keith Hill.  He also restored the 1658 de Zentis harpsichord already mentioned, an Italian harpsichord with two 8’ stops.  By its design, when the 8’ stops are used singly the unused 8’ strings are free to vibrate sympathetically, creating a very resonant effect.

STEPHEN - What do you think about performing early music on the piano? What's lost and/or gained 'in translation', so to speak?

ELIZABETH - The important thing, and this is the thing I stress when I coach piano students at the University of Colorado, is that I want the player to approach the music from the point of view of the era in which it was composed, to the best of their ability, and devise a way to bring the truest possible communication of the music to listeners.  And besides, it is essential that all keyboardists know the wealth of repertoire from this era, even if for no other reason than to understand the stance from which Bach’s sons, Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven created new styles and began to make use of a new keyboard instrument: the fortepiano.

In my classes, I illustrate my point about music being composed for a specific instrument by playing one of my favorite piano pieces, Schumann’s Träumerei, on the harpsichord.  The music is the same, but it just doesn’t sound right.  However, since the reverse practice is most often carried out it seems more natural to some of us.
http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=580&displayMenu=Interviews&type=2
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 15, 2009, 02:48:50 PM
Keith Hill, a Michigan-based harpsichord maker, is apparently something of a legend in the realm ...........
(http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313013975__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313013975__lang-en-us.jpg)

I'm a big admirer of Mr. Hill's work, both musically and artistically. His workshop is in Manchester, Michigan, but his website is easier to reach (http://keithhillharpsichords.com/). :)

Brian - I agree that there are plenty of great instrument makers working today on both sides of the Atlantic!  :D

I have that Byrd set above myself w/ Elizabeth Farr - outstanding performances & excellent reviews, and at a great Naxos price!  Farr teaches @ the University of Colorado (http://irfanview.com/) in Boulder; I've seen that interview that you quoted in a subsequent post and swear that I acutally heard it off my computer @ work - can't remember if it was from NPR, but I just don't have a link @ the moment - sorry.   :-\
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 15, 2009, 02:56:56 PM
What a great idea is this thread, Dave! Congratulations.

Your link about the Madisons’ meetings recalled to me the glass harmonica (also glassharmonica, glass armonica, Armonica de verre in French, Glasharmonika in German)...................

Hello Antoine - glad that you're enjoying the 'concept' of this new thread and looking forward to your posts here - thanks for the information on Ben Franklin's Glass Armonica - this instrument has come up in other threads & posts; I've listened to snippets but do not have any recordings myself featuring this Franklin invention!  Maybe some recommendations (depending on what's available?) will be posted - My wife & I love Ben F. - I've read a number of bios on him and own a great DVD documentary; he was indeed a fascinating and unique individual of his times!  Other important Franklin inventions - lightening rods, stove, & bifocals (and sure that I've left some out!) - Dave 
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on March 15, 2009, 03:25:03 PM
I've seen that interview that you quoted in a subsequent post and swear that I acutally heard it off my computer @ work - can't remember if it was from NPR, but I just don't have a link @ the moment - sorry.   :-\

Some time ago I posted a link to a podcast: http://blog.naxos.com/2008/08/12/podcast-bach-music-for-lute-harpsichord/

There Elizabeth Farr is interviewed by Raymond Bisha and explains her relation with the Keith Hill’s work. But it's a different interview, I think.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 15, 2009, 03:47:00 PM
Some time ago I posted a link to a podcast: http://blog.naxos.com/2008/08/12/podcast-bach-music-for-lute-harpsichord/

There Elizabeth Farr is interviewed by Raymond Bisha and explains her relation with the Keith Hill’s work. But it's a different interview, I think.

Antoine - thanks for finding that link - excellent interview & that must be the one!  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: canninator on March 17, 2009, 06:48:04 AM
But, I'll make a first discussion post on the lute, an ancient instrument likely introduced into Europe by the Iberian invasion of the Moors, and modified for many centuries peaking in popularity in the 16th & early 17th centuries; I own a lot of stringed instrument music, including many recordings on the lute, but just received the one below in the mail:

Jakob Lindberg playing Weiss lute compositions on the 'Sixtus Rauwolf lute', an instrument dating from 1590 and beautifully restored - an abbreviated description (more details in the CD booklet) of the lute is quoted below from Lindberg's website -

Yep, they don't make them like they used to. The tone on that lute is so warm and sonorous and the recording is a must have for anyone with a passing interest in lute music. What is remarkable is that so many sources for lute construction have come down to us yet I don't think I have ever heard one with such a sweet tone.

It brings to light a real problem in that so few historical plucked string instruments (renaissance and baroque) have survived (the Lindberg lute was a wreck when he bought it and I think took two years to repair). In some cases (vihuela, cittern, early guitar etc) this makes construction of modern copies problematic. Still, some remarkable instruments from the classical and modern period have survived. I have been listening to a lot of Stefano Grondona lately. Grondano was a favorite student of Andres Segovia and has made some wonderful recordings with period instruments. On Evocations (Stradivarius STR 33658) he plays the Llobet transcriptions of Albeniz and Granados on Llobets own guitar (Antonio de Torres 1859). Also on Stradivarius, Grondona plays Julian Arcas on "La Leona". La Leona was also made by Torres (in 1856) and is a beautiful (if unconventional) predecessor of the modern guitar with a brass horn inside the sound hole (but no metallic tinge to the sound), quite stunning really. Personally, I think something has been lost in guitar construction through the quest for volume and projection. I would take a Torres over a Smallman any day of the week (with gut strings, naturally).


Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2009, 05:14:14 PM
It brings to light a real problem in that so few historical plucked string instruments (renaissance and baroque) have survived (the Lindberg lute was a wreck when he bought it and I think took two years to repair). In some cases (vihuela, cittern, early guitar etc) this makes construction of modern copies problematic. Still, some remarkable instruments from the classical and modern period have survived. I have been listening to a lot of Stefano Grondona lately. Grondano was a favorite student of Andres Segovia and has made some wonderful recordings with period instruments. On Evocations (Stradivarius STR 33658) he plays the Llobet transcriptions of Albeniz and Granados on Llobets own guitar (Antonio de Torres 1859). Also on Stradivarius, Grondona plays Julian Arcas on "La Leona". La Leona was also made by Torres (in 1856) and is a beautiful (if unconventional) predecessor of the modern guitar with a brass horn inside the sound hole (but no metallic tinge to the sound), quite stunning really. Personally, I think something has been lost in guitar construction through the quest for volume and projection. I would take a Torres over a Smallman any day of the week (with gut strings, naturally).

Thanks for your excellent comments above on Grondano - don't know this musician - please post your favorites w/ a few pics just to 'tweak' us into some purchases - sounds fascinating (and 'solo guitar' is an area that I own a lot of CDs!) - Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2009, 05:25:50 PM
A new arrival for me in the mail today!  Appropriate for this thread on 'older' musical instruments:

Vivaldi, Antonio (1678-1741) - Cello Sonatas w/ the great Anner Bylsma on a Baroque cello (Matteo Goffriller, 1693); the other performers are on violin, cello, harpsichord/organ, and archlute (Ivano Zanenghi); the latter is the 'old' instrument of interest (scanned in a second pic from the booklet to show this unusual multi-string instrument, far left - not much in the notes -  :-\).

Fabulous recording and this music does sound 'old' (and wonderful) on these deep melodious instruments - so, any comments from 'experts' out there on Baroque cellos (shapes, types of strings, bows, & playing techniques) & on this interesting looking lute variant?  Thanks all -  :)


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/493580981_HeNNv-M.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/493581099_r6874-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2009, 07:06:10 PM
Old Organs & Restorations - of course this topic could occupy an entire thread (or more if split into countries of origin!) - below is a post of mine from the listening thread about the restoration of a David Tannenberg which was installed in Salem, North Carolina back in 1800 (now 'Old Salem' located in my home town of Winston-Salem) - just wonderful to have seen this wonderfully restored instrument back in action to all its glory - so, just another 'idea' about contributing to this discussion - organs go back centuries and many have been (or need to be ) restored to their orginal glories - any thoughts or experinces?  Thanks -  :)


Quote
Just returned from a concert entitled Music in Revolutionary Salem held in the Old Salem Visitors Center - theme was music played in the late 18th century by known and now obscure composers, many of whom had some relationship (or their music) to Salem (since back then it was not called 'Old Salem' -  ;)) - the program was part of the Carolina Summer Music Festival (http://csmf.carolinachambersymphony.org/concerts/salem.html), and was quite varied - one 'thrill' was hearing a completely restored organ (located in the Gray Auditorium of the visitor's center) built by David Tannenberg and originally installed in 1800 in the Home Moravian Church; dismantled in 1910, and held in storage until the 1990s - apparently, now back to its original appearance & sound!

I loved the sound of this organ - not big but with a soft and much more delicate sound than most BIG organs - as a result I bought a CD (below) which I'm now enjoying - from the dedication of the restored organ in 2004 w/ Peter Sykes playing the instrument - varied program of CPE Bach, Johann Krebs, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Christian Latrobe, and a 'new piece' by Dan Locklair, a local composer - even bought a short book on the rebuilding of this organ (also below) done by Taylor & Boody Organbuilders out of Staunton, VA (birthplace of Woodrow Wilson) -  :D

(https://id312.securedata.net/ravencd.com/merchantmanager/images/oar-700.jpg)  (http://www.oldsalem.org/assets/images/a201_1.jpg)  (http://www.oldsalem.com/images/uploads/large/99252-l.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: canninator on March 18, 2009, 01:15:53 AM
Thanks for your excellent comments above on Grondano - don't know this musician - please post your favorites w/ a few pics just to 'tweak' us into some purchases - sounds fascinating (and 'solo guitar' is an area that I own a lot of CDs!) - Dave  :)

He has a ton of really high quality videos on youtube, here is a particularly nice one

http://www.youtube.com/v/hFTWjEqBQAg

I would recommend this CD as a great place to start purely because of the pedigree of the guitar (kinda pricey though)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510HVN0ZK7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

These are the Llobet transcriptions, heard as the maestro himself will have heard them.

(http://www.stradivarius.it/copertine/8011570336583.jpg)

This is a future purchase for me (presuming he is playing a baroque as opposed to a modern guitar)

(http://www.stradivarius.it/copertine/8011570336224.jpg)



Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 18, 2009, 02:19:22 PM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510HVN0ZK7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


Thanks for the recommendation - goin' to put the disc above on my 'wish list' -  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: toledobass on March 20, 2009, 08:31:11 AM
Really nice old basses are hard to come by.  Not many really exist.  Being such a big instrument they get trashed pretty easily.  Not too difficult for accidents to happen no matter how careful you are.  Also with the size of the instruments not many makers want to dedicate really nice wood to a bass when you could make a few violins out of the same slab. 

The cost of old fine basses has sky rocketed in the past 10 years or so.  What has happened has many modern makers have gained more and more skill and some of the modern instruments being made now are very high quality nice sounding instruments. Not really the case 10-20 years ago. Many instruments built during that time had a new bass quality to them that was easy to pick out.  Some of the basses being built today are designed by the maker but some are also copies of older basses. 

The bass I own now was built in 2004 by a Horst Gruenert.  It's a copy of bass made by Vincenzo Panormo. Many people are surprised that the bass is less than ten years old.  It sounds like an older instrument and he also did some very nice work giving the bass an antiqued look. Here are some pictures of a real Panormo:


http://www.jdhillmusic.com/master/panormo/panormo.html (http://www.jdhillmusic.com/master/panormo/panormo.html)

Here are pics of a Gruenert Panormo copy (notice that it's a 5 string):


http://www.gruenert.com/englisch/instrumente/gruenert/kontrabass/panormo.html (http://www.gruenert.com/englisch/instrumente/gruenert/kontrabass/panormo.html)


Finally a few pics of my own instrument...the lighting in my practice room sux so the varnish looks like it is a deep brown when in actuality it has a beautiful reddish quality to it.

Allan




Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: toledobass on March 20, 2009, 08:35:56 AM
mas
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 20, 2009, 08:56:22 AM
Allan - thanks for the links & the pics of your bass - excellent!  :D

I've noticed in the past (at concerts) and in the pics provided that the 'bridge' of the bass is quite high - does this faciliatate bowing and/or plucking of the instrument or is the reason possibly related to tuning?

Also, I assume that your bass could be strung w/ gut or metal strings (and that you use metal in concert), but have you given 'gut' strings a try?  If so, any impressions; of course, this could then lead into the different types of bows - well too many questions, sorry -  :-\   Dave

(http://www.gruenert.com/images/images_instrumente/kontrabass/panormo_seite.gif)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jwinter on March 20, 2009, 12:03:10 PM
I have and can recommend this CD (http://www.amazon.com/Glass-Harmonica-Ludwig-van-Beethoven/dp/B00005QISL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237579275&sr=1-1).  It really is a fascinating instrument, I had the pleasure of seeing it performed live quite a few years ago at Colonial Williamsburg (or it might have been Monticello, I forget):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519Geg4TMBL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Hello Antoine - glad that you're enjoying the 'concept' of this new thread and looking forward to your posts here - thanks for the information on Ben Franklin's Glass Armonica - this instrument has come up in other threads & posts; I've listened to snippets but do not have any recordings myself featuring this Franklin invention!  Maybe some recommendations (depending on what's available?) will be posted - My wife & I love Ben F. - I've read a number of bios on him and own a great DVD documentary; he was indeed a fascinating and unique individual of his times!  Other important Franklin inventions - lightening rods, stove, & bifocals (and sure that I've left some out!) - Dave 
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 20, 2009, 01:53:07 PM
I have and can recommend this CD (http://www.amazon.com/Glass-Harmonica-Ludwig-van-Beethoven/dp/B00005QISL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237579275&sr=1-1).  It really is a fascinating instrument, I had the pleasure of seeing it performed live quite a few years ago at Colonial Williamsburg (or it might have been Monticello, I forget):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519Geg4TMBL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


Jwinter - thanks for the recommendation - added to my GMG 'wish list' - just checked on Amazon HERE (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=glass+armonica) just to see 'what' was available; the Naxos disc has a great rating, so appears to be a great 'first' option - would appreciate comments from all regarding the other CDs shown on the link; a number have also received great comments -  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 20, 2009, 02:06:27 PM
Well, this topic obviously can incorporate other areas of learning about musical instruments - looking through my library, the only book that I own on this subject is shown below - this was bought at the Metropolitan Museum of Art more than 20 yrs ago (publication date is mid-1980s) - excellent tome w/ a lot of pictures.

But for this thread, please add suggestions related to books, visual (e.g. DVD) options, places to visits (museums, houses, etc.), or any other type experiences that may gain some insight into these instruments!  Thanks all -  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/495186563_xMc8t-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: toledobass on March 20, 2009, 03:15:25 PM
Hiya 'Nic,

Bridges of basses are higher just because the string vibration is that much greater. It just needs more room to move without hitting the fingerboard.  You'll notice on the pictures of my bass a few wheels near the feet of the bridge that are used for adjusting bridge height.  The pics of the original Panormo and the pic from the Grunert site show a solid bridge without adjusters.  These are helpful during weather changes from the bridge and instrument shrinking during winter then expanding in summer.  In places that have a constant humidity/temp like San Francisco eg. you probably wouldn't need them.

More on strings later,

Allan
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: toledobass on March 21, 2009, 05:51:09 AM
Hi there again,

I do have steel strings on my bass.  Basically here is the tradeoff:  steel you get power and brilliance and precise articulation but lack a wider color spectrum.  Gut you get that color spectrum and very vocal sound, but lack brilliance and power (they're also a beeeotch to get and keep in tune.) 

You won't find a true gut string outside of a period performance style group.  In a modern orchestra you may find players who use stings with a gut core but that are wound with steel.  I like these strings especially for the robust pizzicato sound they can give.  Most of the steel strings have a pretty dead pizzicato. They're expensive though and break easily.  They're also harder for me to hear under the ear in the heat of the battle so I've never really wanted to switch to them.

Many of modern instruments aren't really properly set up for gut strings either.  Inside the top of the instrument is something called a bass bar that runs down the length of the instrument.  This structurally supports the top as well as transfers vibration throughout it.  I believe that the bass bars in instruments set up for modern playing are much beefier in order to accomodate the higher pressure created by steel stings on the top of the instrument.  If you switched to gut it would sound fine but I don't think it'd be optimally set up for that string.  I'm not really 100% sure on that though.

I've never played on anything but a modern bow before so can't comment there.

Allan
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2009, 06:14:50 AM
Allan - thanks for your great comments - a voice of experience!  :D

Currently listening to Anner Bylsma on the 'Baroque Cello' in the Vivaldi Cello Sonatas - those gut strings do have a different 'mellow' sound - but like wood skrinking & expanding seasonally, must indeed be a tuning nightmare at times!  And in the days when 'gut' strings were used routinely, temperature & humidity differences (i.e. w/o modern HVAC) would have been even more extreme!  Dave

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/493580981_HeNNv-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2009, 02:58:26 PM
Keith Hill, a Michigan-based harpsichord maker, is apparently something of a legend in the realm - he even paints the elaborate artwork on all of his instruments. Examples of Keith Hill's work have graced several Naxos album covers (not to mention the recordings themselves); his harpsichords and other instruments have been used by several other recording artists, notably Robert Hill, Anthony Newman, and Andreas Staier; the Musica Antiqua Koln Brandenburg Concertos with Staier include a Hill harpsichord, for instance.

Click for full size of some of the artwork on his instruments:

(http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313013975__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313013975__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313265428__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://smallfiles.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/747313265428__lang-en-us.jpg) (http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/112/441/11244179/600x600.jpg) (http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/112/441/11244179/600x600.jpg)


I'm a big admirer of Mr. Hill's work, both musically and artistically. His workshop is in Manchester, Michigan, but his website is easier to reach (http://keithhillharpsichords.com/). :)

Lute-Harpsichord or Lautenwerk - at the beginning of this thread, Brian added a great post (quoted above) about Elizabeth Farr & Keith Hill - I own the first 2 Farr recordings featured, but have that w/ the Lute-Harpsichord on my list; the only other CD that I own which features this 'revival' instrument is Robert Hill in the works of JS Bach (shown below).

Now Q et al have been discussing this instrument in 'other threads' - I know, but might not hurt to have some further discussion here and some recommendations - just in searching the web, I was reading about Steven Sørli (http://www.lautenwerk.com/), who seems to be a well respected & innovative instrument maker, specializing in the lute-harpsichord; from the website "he uses flourocarbon strings which produce a slightly brighter tone than real gut. The bass octave is fitted with copper-wound nylon to provide a deep resonant effect" - but I've been really enjoying these introductory experiences listening to this instrument, and hope others can provide comments -  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/448494781_4du6B-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 24, 2009, 03:05:52 PM
Well, just posted in Gurn's 'Classical Thread' about some little known 'transitional' composers from the mid-18th century, including Johann Eckard (1735-1809), who was quite popular in Paris as a keyboard artist & composer - in the 1760s he wrote a number of Keyboard Sonatas, which the young Mozart apparently knew & played (the two met in Paris) - I have only a single recording of Eckard's works (apparently not much more exits) w/ Arthur Schoonderwoerd on the fortepiano - an instrument of course pertinent to this thread on older instruments.

But in looking for other recordings of Eckard, the one below (far right) was of interest, i.e. 2-CD set on a great label w/ Spanyi playing likely much of which is available from this composer on two other instruments worthy of discussion, i.e. clavichord & tangent piano - so, any comments on these various keyboard instruments?  Other recommendations for recordings and any comments on the disc shown?  Thanks all -  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/498107093_Fs33t-M.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/498107091_HtUCY-M.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41mS2I4KcZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 01, 2009, 08:43:55 AM
Well, stimulated by a post from Bill (Bogey) yesterday in one of the frequented threads, I listened to the two discs of Medieval Dances below performed by the group Istanpitta from NYC - these are instrumental works from the 13th & 14th centuries - posted this morn in the listening thread, but decided to 'scan in' the B&W images (unfortunately) of the many 'old' instruments used by the performers in this group:

Wake Forest University here used to have a Medieval-Renaissance music series for a number of years, which we enjoyed tremendously - may have even seen this group, along w/ many others - back in the 80s & 90s - bought a lot of this type of music @ the time -  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503355752_xux8c-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503355758_7SpnA-S.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503355984_4r8JQ-S.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503355986_mbvTi-S.jpg) 

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503355989_f2FjT-S.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503355996_99QcW-S.jpg)


Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 02, 2009, 03:20:46 PM
Baryton - another older string instrument, popular in the 17th & 18th centuries, and one that has fascinated me for years; of course, the master composer for this instrument was Joseph Haydn, mainly because his employer, Prince Nikolaus Esterhazy, was apparently an excellent performer on this instrument and insisted on a LOT of 'new' music for his passion; Haydn was a reluctant servant at first because of his lack of understanding of the baryton; well, he taught himself to play the instrument and then was much more enthusiastic in composing many works, including 126 extant trios, duets, octets, and other pieces! 

Well, yesterday I received from 'across the pond' the Brilliant Box shown below of Haydn's Baryton Works - the instrument is seen in both photos; Brilliant has established a website HERE (http://www.haydnbarytontrios.com/) just for this set; the track listenings are included, plus some audio snippets; quoted in part from the booklet: 

Quote
baryton...a member of the gamba family, typically consists of one manual w/ 6-7 bowed gut strings and another w/ up to 20, though normally 9-10 'sympathetically resonating strings of metal, lying under the fingerboard...; the open back of the neck also makes it possible to pluck the resonance strings....


The baryton used in these recordings (performed by the Esterhazy Ensemble w/ Michael Brussing on the instrument) is a copy after an instrument by J.J. Stadlmann which was played by Prince Nick, himself (the original is in the National Museum in Budapest) - just getting started today in listening to this set; will take a while!  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503983918_hE2MS-M.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/503983919_Pot4F-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on April 04, 2009, 09:36:28 AM

I find old instruments fascinating! The school system in which I teach owns hundreds of string instruments, and over the years I've become pretty good at repairing and restoring them. Instrument repairs can be very expensive, so the more violins I keep in shape on my own translates to more kids getting the opportunity to play. While I'm by no means a professional repairman, I'm at the point where any repair I can't handle would cost more to send out than the instrument we own is worth.
 
I also enjoy finding, repairing, and restoring instruments I pick up at flea markets, thrift shops, and on e-bay. The first picture below shows some of the violins I've accumulated and put into playing shape. One of these instruments has me a bit puzzled and maybe someone here can shed some light on it.
 
The violin in the second picture was in horrible shape when I got it. I won it on e-bay, and the listed story was that it belonged to the seller's grandmother who brought it with her to the U.S. from Germany in the late 1800's. Someone added mechanical tuners at some point, which I removed and replaced with new rosewood pegs after repairing the scroll. The rosewood chinrest and boxwood tailpiece are also new.
 
The instrument is the length of a full-size violin but has a body that is much squarer. The f-holes are also much narrower to the point where a standard soundpost will not fit through. The most noticeable difference, though, is in the structure of the neck. On modern violins, the neck block slips into a shallow opening in the body. This opening is closed on three sides with the open side hidden by the fingerboard. On the pictured instrument, the neck block fits deeply into the instrument body in a socket that is closed on all sides. Attachment of the neck is aided by a screw that enters through the back. The most difficult part of putting this instrument into playing condition was setting the neck into place and cutting a bridge to fit the very high arch. When I was done, the fingerboard ended up very close to the instrument body.

Any comments, ideas, or feedback on this instrument would be welcome.


Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 04, 2009, 02:24:13 PM
Tony - thanks for the story above and the pics - can't help much w/ the origin of that violin - sounds like from your description that the neck is inserted as a full mortise-tenon type joint?  Any information from the purchaser about the country of origin?  I'm assuming that violin making did vary a bit between European countries back in that century.

I've not done much w/ repairing or refinishing musical instruments, although I have a pretty good amateur wood working shop - did help my brother on some repairs of a 'solid-body' guitar that he had purchased used.

Also, I've built a few instruments from 'kits', including a 'cheap' hammered dulcimer - if my wife learns to play the thing, I'd be willing to buy a really nice one (great shops around here in NC, including one in Black Mtn near Asheville, just 2 hrs from our home); I did make her a nice cherry music stand (seen in the pic below w/ her Celtic harps & acoustic guitar); she also has a piano in the other corner of that room, an electronic keyboard (that she loves), a bowed psaltery, recorders, and a 'new' steel stringed guitar that we purchased last fall in Memphis at the Gibson factory (need to take a new pic w/ that instrument in place - but first have to build a nice wood stand for it!  Oh, too much to do -  :)) - Dave

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/24059337_3ds7a-S.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on April 04, 2009, 02:46:52 PM
Tony - thanks for the story above and the pics - can't help much w/ the origin of that violin - sounds like from your description that the neck is inserted as a full mortise-tenon type joint?  Any information from the purchaser about the country of origin?  I'm assuming that violin making did vary a bit between European countries back in that century.

Yes! Mortise-tenon would be the right description. I didn't know the term for it until you mentioned it, but that's how it appears.

(http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/56/Mortise_tenon.svg/300px-Mortise_tenon.svg.png)

Presumably, the instrument originated in Germany but it is unlike any other German violins from that era that I've been familiar with. There's no label inside to give any real clues.

Also, I've built a few instruments from 'kits', including a 'cheap' hammered dulcimer - if my wife learns to play the thing, I'd be willing to buy a really nice one (great shops around here in NC, including one in Black Mtn near Asheville, just 2 hrs from our home);

When I was in Philadelphia this summer, I spoke to an excellent hammered dulcimer player who demonstrated the instrument for me. The layout of the thing is not very intuitive to those of us used to traditional keyboard or string instruments. On request, he played me a Jazz tune with lots of incidentals that required all kinds of jumps back and forth around the strings.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 04, 2009, 03:05:51 PM
Love the hammered dulcimer (own a bunch of CDs w/ the instrument featured) - below is a picture of the shop in Black Mountain, North Carolina - place is called Song of the Wood (http://www.songofthewood.com/) showing hammered & mountain dulcimers, and a few bowed psalteries (on the far left wall) - just some beautiful local wood working; just looked at the pricing of the 'hammered dulcimers' (boy, have gone UP since my last check!) -  :-\


(http://www.songofthewood.com/images/01-01-09/Showroom.JPG)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on April 10, 2009, 12:22:09 PM
I love old instruments of all kinds! :D As a piano tuner I've come across a lot of historical pianos, including a few from the 19th century, mostly US-made.  They often have wonderful woodwork and thus are also wonderful furniture.  As long as the soundboard hasn't cracked, they can sound very nice.  The trouble comes with the felt hammers that strike the strings, and to a lesser extent with the strings themselves.  The hammers compress with age and use, so they have to be replaced for the instrument to sound as it did when new.  But it's really sad how pianos are being neglected now for keyboards. :'(
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on April 10, 2009, 05:16:00 PM
I love old instruments of all kinds! :D As a piano tuner I've come across a lot of historical pianos, including a few from the 19th century, mostly US-made.  They often have wonderful woodwork and thus are also wonderful furniture.  As long as the soundboard hasn't cracked, they can sound very nice.  The trouble comes with the felt hammers that strike the strings, and to a lesser extent with the strings themselves.  The hammers compress with age and use, so they have to be replaced for the instrument to sound as it did when new.  But it's really sad how pianos are being neglected now for keyboards. :'(

There's a wonderful 100+ year old Baldwin baby grand in the orchestra room in which I teach. I almost feel guilty using it as my piano skills aren't deserving of such a fine instrument. I have five string players in my ensemble who are also pianists, and they take turns playing when we perform pieces that have piano parts. They quickly came to appreciate the difference between an electronic keyboard (and even a decent upright) and a fine piano.
  A former student of mine would babysit at a certain family's home mainly because they had a nice baby grand she could practice on while the couple went out for the evening. No one in that family actually played the piano, but the wife wanted it because it looked nice in her dining room. It's ironic how many great pianos languish as unplayed pieces of furniture while countless young pianists who would revel in the chance to play one can't afford to own one.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 12, 2009, 07:48:26 AM
Glass (H)Armonica, invented by Benjamin Franklin in the 18th century and apparently quite popular in the latter part of that century into the next!  Just obtained the disc below which was recommended earlier in this thread - fascinating instrument (as I mentioned in the 'listening thread' - worth hearing, but not sure if I'd invest in a 'box set' -  ;) ;D)

On this recording, Thomas Bloch plays the instrument, which was built by G. Finkenbeiner - in interested, checkout the website HERE (http://www.finkenbeiner.com/GLASSHARMONICA.htm) - plenty of information w/ a history written by Bloch & a discography - want to make a purchase, the pricing from this company starts at $7,555!   :)


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/510202067_3Sdk5-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 12, 2009, 08:52:43 AM
Well, since my earlier post today on the Glass (H)Armonica, I was curious whether other recordings might be available - certainly the link provided previously showed a handful of offerings - my searching found another WEBSITE HERE (http://www.glassarmonica.com/index.php), and a performer named William Zeitler - check out the 'Video' section of the home menu for a bunch of YouTube performances!

Plus, he has recorded a number of CDs (some of original music for the instrument!) - just two are shown below - anyone know these offerings?  Both received 5* ratings on Amazon:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61XSM357S7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/613Q8SEZHVL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 14, 2009, 01:22:22 PM
I was hoping for some repsonses on the previous post on the Glass Harmonica offerings, but for those coming into this thread who have had some listening experience w/ these discs, please respond!  :D

A few days ago, I obtained the CD below which was recommended on the first page for several reasons.  First, the composer of these solo guitar works was Julian Arcas (1832-1882), who was considered the 'Segovia' of his day.  Second, Arcas played a guitar called La Leona (below, right), which was built by Antonio de Torres in 1856; Torres was so attached to his creation that he maintained ownership during his life, but 'lent out' the guitar to his friend, Julian Arcas. 

Stefano Grondona performs the works of Arcas on this disc using the same guitar, La Leona, which has had some restoration work done, as expected.  This indeed is a special recording - a vintage guitar played beautifully - a special package w/ great liner notes and pictures.   :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/510202038_TNdJS-M.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/510883879_V2L2r-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 20, 2009, 04:07:32 PM
Pedal Harpsichord - another 'new' discovery for me!  :D

Basically, two harpsichords combined, one on top (played w/ the hands) and the other on the bottom (played w/ the feet) - my introduction is the 2-CD set of the Bach WTC, Bk. 1 played by Peter Watchorn, an Australian keyboardist w/ his own label, Musica Omnia (http://www.musicaomnia.org/index2.htm) -  :)

Below pics of the cover art for the WTC recordings & one of Watchorn; below that, Watchorn himself playing the 'pedal harpsichord' - noticed that he had only socks on his feet (not sure 'what' Papa Bach would have worn?); further below are some more pics of this instrument - these are all 'modern' reconstructions based on historic data.

The sound of this instrument is just wonderful - fuller & deeper, more resonant tones from the 'foot' strings - I will definitely plan to purchased the WTC, Bk. 2, when released!  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/535883471_rUMj9-M.jpg)  (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Watchorn-Peter.jpeg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Peter_Watchorn_pedal_harpsichord.jpg/787px-Peter_Watchorn_pedal_harpsichord.jpg)

(http://www.baroquecds.com/Neupertphpschd.jpg)

(http://www.claviersbaroques.com/images/JLHT20002Aside.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Que on May 20, 2009, 04:49:35 PM
Dave, note this Bach CD on a pedal-harpsichord by Yves Rechsteiner. I commented on it on the Bach on the harpsichord etc. thread earlier (HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,289.msg101874.html#msg101874))

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/123/BIG.JPG)

Samples HERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-Alpha_027#).

Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 21, 2009, 04:49:25 AM
Dave, note this Bach CD on a pedal-harpsichord by Yves Rechsteiner. I commented on it on the Bach on the harpsichord etc. thread earlier (HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,289.msg101874.html#msg101874))

(http://www.fugalibera.com/data/cds/123/BIG.JPG)


Q - thanks for the link(s); I've paid close attention to the other threads w/ these older instruments which have stimulated me to purchase quite a few pre-modern piano discs recently - will certainly add that suggestion to my list!  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 21, 2009, 02:20:41 PM
I am enjoying the beauty of the pedal-harpsichord too, Dave.

BTW, these days I am waiting impatiently for a disc of Schumann's music on a pedalflügel (or pedal pianoforte) played by Martin Schmeding. The instrument is an hybrid between a Pleyel-flügel (ca. 1847) and a Pleyel-Pédalier (ca. 1890).

The works included are 6 Studies for Pedalflügel Op. 56, 4 Sketches for Pedalflügel Op. 58, 6 Fugen über B-A-C-H Op. 60, Canon Op. 124 No. 2.

The pedal pianoforte is an instrument forgotten today and the few pieces devoted to it are usually played on organ.

According to the Grove Dictionary of Music, the pedal pianoforte (Fr. piano à pédalier, clavier de pédales; Ger. Pedalflügel, Pedalklavier; It. pianoforte organistico) is "a piano equipped with a pedal-board like that of an organ. Four types are known: those in which the pedals operate separate hammers to strike the same strings as the keys; those in which a separate set of strings with its own soundboard is installed below the main soundboard; those with a separate box containing pedals, action and strings, on which the piano itself is set; and uprights, where wire pull-downs on the keys are activated by the pedals. The pedal notes usually sound at the 16' pitch over a two-octave range. Some 18th-century instruments have a Short octave arrangement, such as the Johann Schmidt piano of the first type, now in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York. The third type was also known in the 18th century; Mozart had such an instrument, made probably by Anton Walter, and his father reported to Nannerl that the box was extremely heavy". I adds that "Schumann persuaded Mendelssohn to institute classes in pedal piano playing at the Leipzig Conservatory and wrote two works for the instrument: the Studien op.56 and Skizzen op.58. Other 19th-century composers who wrote music specially for the instrument include Alkan (Benedictus op.54, 11 grands préludes et une transcription op.66, Impromptu sur le choral de Luther op.69 and some études and fugues) and Gounod (Fantaisie sur l'hymne national russe and Suite concertante, both with orchestra)".

Here something found on YouTube (from the forementioned disc):

http://www.youtube.com/v/lGur8JaPbfo
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: FideLeo on May 22, 2009, 02:19:27 AM
John Khouri recorded a Mozart recital on a pedal piano (Entr'acte ESCD 6501), with a programme that is generally chosen from Mozart's organ works (often left unfinished).  The pedal bass sounds boomy (and somewhat intrusive in the overall texture) and the music, honestly, isn't among the composer's best creations.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d1/7b/47bd9833e7a08c5d746f1110.L.jpg)

Other than using a pedal pf, another option to play/record Schumann's organ works is to have a third hand on the keyboard.  Lorenzo Ghielmi and Frederica Valli did this for their Schumann discc (plus Piano Quintet with Gaia Scienza) on Winter & Winter.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 22, 2009, 07:33:51 AM
Other than using a pedal pf, another option to play/record Schumann's organ works is to have a third hand on the keyboard.  Lorenzo Ghielmi and Frederica Valli did this for their Schumann discc (plus Piano Quintet with Gaia Scienza) on Winter & Winter.

Yes, I have that disc: Für meine Clara. My only complaint about it, if any, is that the works joined there are so different that I believe to be listening to two different discs.

You probably know a set on Nuova Era (13 CDs) that includes all the solo piano works by Schumann. There Jörg Demus performs, for example, the exquisite Etüden für den Pedalflügel Op. 56 (CD11) with a second pianist (Norman Shetler), but the name of the latter has been deleted from the credits.  ???
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 22, 2009, 01:47:22 PM
I am enjoying the beauty of the pedal-harpsichord too, Dave.

BTW, these days I am waiting impatiently for a disc of Schumann's music on a pedalflügel (or pedal pianoforte) played by Martin Schmeding. The instrument is an hybrid between a Pleyel-flügel (ca. 1847) and a Pleyel-Pédalier (ca. 1890).

The works included are 6 Studies for Pedalflügel Op. 56, 4 Sketches for Pedalflügel Op. 58, 6 Fugen über B-A-C-H Op. 60, Canon Op. 124 No. 2.

The pedal pianoforte is an instrument forgotten today and the few pieces devoted to it are usually played on organ........

Antoine - well, yet another instrument that has 'escaped' my attention!  ::)

Thanks for your excellent & detailed description of the various types (or mechanisms) used for the pedal pianoforte - will anxiously await your comments on the disc mentioned!  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: FideLeo on May 23, 2009, 06:56:26 AM

You probably know a set on Nuova Era (13 CDs) that includes all the solo piano works by Schumann. There Jörg Demus performs, for example, the exquisite Etüden für den Pedalflügel Op. 56 (CD11) with a second pianist (Norman Shetler), but the name of the latter has been deleted from the credits.  ???


Well Demus chose to use modern instruments there - that is enough to put me off the set.  I also heard (from trustworthy reviewers) that the interpretations are rather lacklustre as well.  So I am glad to have the "meine Klara" disc, whether it actually sounds like two projects or not -- two rather different-sounding fp's were used anyway.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 23, 2009, 03:11:55 PM
Well Demus chose to use modern instruments there - that is enough to put me off the set.  I also heard (from trustworthy reviewers) that the interpretations are rather lacklustre as well.  So I am glad to have the "meine Klara" disc, whether it actually sounds like two projects or not -- two rather different-sounding fp's were used anyway.

I like several recordings on Winter & Winter (Schumann, Brahms, Schubert) and, in general, the work of Lorenzo Ghielmi in that label.

But my opinions are slightly different about other issues.

I clearly prefer music on period instruments, but they are mandatory for me just in Baroque music or earlier.

I too can enjoy music of the Classical and Romantic periods on modern instruments, especially when that repertory has been covered very partially for HIP performers and ensembles. I would prefer a good HIP recording in Schumann's piano works, but who has recorded those discs? If I don't hear that music on modern instruments, I would not hear it at all (with the exception of the Staier’s disc A tribute to Bach and something more).

And, as you know, period instruments don't guarantee artistic quality or pleasure. For example, I dislike Beethoven piano sonatas by Brautigam, although I like his Haydn. And I like his Haydn as much as I love the Haydn recordings by Brendel.   

On the other hand, when I buy a box set (as the Schumann set on Nuova Era) I don't assess it as a complete thing, but every disc in particular. And the aforementioned set has four o five very recommendable discs and its general level is rather good, giving the opportunity to know some obscure pieces. IMO, Demus (a renowned performer and collector of old keyboard instruments) is a serious artist, who knows very deeply his Schumann. I would not recommend his complete set just for one reason: It is an excessively “qualified” recommendation in many aspects: sound, approach, instrument, etc. It is the typical matter of personal taste.

Finally, if I mentioned the Nuova Era set was only because the fortepiano pedal pieces are played by two pianists and the name of Shetler was omitted in the credits.  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: FideLeo on May 23, 2009, 07:21:55 PM
But who's talking about artistic qualities and pleasure in this thread?  As your choices in Brautigam performances show, they are very much a subjective issue anyway and will vary from person to person.  The topic at hand is "old musical instruments and modern reproductions" and that in itself probably doesn't need any qualification.  
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 23, 2009, 08:54:34 PM
But who's talking about artistic qualities and pleasure in this thread?  As your choices in Brautigam performances show, they are very much a subjective issue anyway and will vary from person to person.  The topic at hand is "old musical instruments and modern reproductions" and that in itself probably doesn't need any qualification.  

I'm sorry, Traverso, but I don't understand exactly your point.

My interest in old instruments and modern copies is all about artistic qualities and pleasure. I am interested in old instruments just as a way in order to reach certain “original beauty” of the music. IMO, this thread is not about antique furniture, although the beauty of the instruments is sometimes part of the pleasure.

BTW, your use of the words "objective" and "subjective" is a little bit disconcerting because an opinion is always a subjective thing. When the personal point of view is suppressed then we have knowledges not opinions. 
 
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: FideLeo on May 24, 2009, 12:06:20 AM


My interest in old instruments and modern copies is all about artistic qualities and pleasure. I am interested in old instruments just as a way in order to reach certain “original beauty” of the music. IMO, this thread is not about antique furniture, although the beauty of the instruments is sometimes part of the pleasure.


To be brief, when not playing a fp Demus has nothing to do with "old musical instruments and modern reproductions" so I assume your opinion alone qualifies his presence in this thread.  But why?  Even if what he does in his Nuovo Era Schumann set affords artistic quality or pleasure to you, it wouldn't be the same to me without the antique "furniture" and the reason isn't just a matter of different opinions.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 24, 2009, 05:24:42 AM
To be brief, when not playing a fp Demus has nothing to do with "old musical instruments and modern reproductions" so I assume your opinion alone qualifies his presence in this thread.  But why?  Even if what he does in his Nuovo Era Schumann set affords artistic quality or pleasure to you, it wouldn't be the same to me without the antique "furniture" and the reason isn't just a matter of different opinions.

IMO, all of this is a misunderstanding: My comment about Demus was anecdotal. When you mentioned the disc entitled Für Meine Clara (with fortepiano pedal pieces performed on one instrument with three hands), I recalled the Nuova Era set because there two pianists play the same pieces (replacing so the lack of a fortepiano pedal), but the name of one of them was deleted from the credits: That was the meaning of the icon  ???, only an anecdotal commentary. And that was the reason why I included the covers, to show how the Shetler’s name is not included there. I never have thought Demus or Shetler are playing period instruments, actually I don't know at all what instruments were used by them (and the issue is rather enigmatic).
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 24, 2009, 06:42:01 AM
Well, yet another 'discovery' for me from that fascinating period of 'evolving' string instruments, i.e. 17th into the mid-18th centuries:

Violoncello da spalla or 'shoulder-cello' - my first listening to one of these instruments is the 2-CD set below w/ Sigiswald Kuijken performing the Bach 'Cello Suites' - further pics of the particular instrument used at the bottom of the post; the 'shoulder-cello' was built by the violinist/luthier Dmitry Badiarov - his Website HERE (http://violadabraccio.com/index.php/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/lang,en/) - finished in 2004.

The instrument indeed sounds like a 'lighter' version of a regular cello, but I've not compared my other standard sets of these works w/ this new one; but, I'd like to check out Amazon to view possible other recordings, possibly w/ Badiarov (who has some videos on the the web of him playing the instrument) -  :)


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/543839817_3xXec-M.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/543839806_yhMRd-M.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/543839823_WEeFq-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on May 24, 2009, 06:56:29 AM
I'm sorry, Traverso, but I don't understand exactly your point.

My interest in old instruments and modern copies is all about artistic qualities and pleasure. I am interested in old instruments just as a way in order to reach certain “original beauty” of the music. IMO, this thread is not about antique furniture, although the beauty of the instruments is sometimes part of the pleasure.
Of course we're all talking about artistic qualities and pleasure.  But there are many elements that go into these qualities: the performers' technical skills, how closely their reading matches our ideals (or how convincing it is if it doesn't), the room's acoustics, the recording engineer's skills, and so on.  My admiration, or lack of it, for a certain player is different from the pleasure I feel in hearing these wondeful old instruments--and it's mostly the old instruments and their sound we're talking about here.  Whether you like the performer(s) is a separate question.  That was traverso's point. :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 24, 2009, 08:16:09 AM
Of course we're all talking about artistic qualities and pleasure.  But there are many elements that go into these qualities: the performers' technical skills, how closely their reading matches our ideals (or how convincing it is if it doesn't), the room's acoustics, the recording engineer's skills, and so on.  My admiration, or lack of it, for a certain player is different from the pleasure I feel in hearing these wondeful old instruments--and it's mostly the old instruments and their sound we're talking about here.  Whether you like the performer(s) is a separate question.  That was traverso's point. :)

Well, my answer is the same on the Reply #52, jochanaan.  :)

P.S.: My opinions about the quality of Demus recordings (not originally discussed by me on this thread) were just an answer to Traverso's statements on that matter: "I also heard (from trustworthy reviewers) that the interpretations are rather lacklustre as well". That's all.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 24, 2009, 08:46:14 AM
Well, yet another 'discovery' for me from that fascinating period of 'evolving' string instruments, i.e. 17th into the mid-18th centuries:

Violoncello da spalla or 'shoulder-cello' - my first listening to one of these instruments is the 2-CD set below w/ Sigiswald Kuijken performing the Bach 'Cello Suites' - further pics of the particular instrument used at the bottom of the post; the 'shoulder-cello' was built by the violinist/luthier Dmitry Badiarov - his Website HERE (http://violadabraccio.com/index.php/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/lang,en/) - finished in 2004.

The instrument indeed sounds like a 'lighter' version of a regular cello, but I've not compared my other standard sets of these works w/ this new one; but, I'd like to check out Amazon to view possible other recordings, possibly w/ Badiarov (who has some videos on the the web of him playing the instrument) -  :)


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/543839817_3xXec-M.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/543839806_yhMRd-M.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/543839823_WEeFq-M.jpg)

Badiarov has written an enlightening article about baroque strings, based on his experience together with the string maker Mimmo Peruffo. It is entitled “Early Gut Strings: their quality from within baroque perspective” and contains important information related to the reconstruction of violoncello da spalla.

Highly recommended: http://violadabraccio.com/index.php/content/view/18/70/lang,en/

BTW, I think Badiarov developed his reconstruction in 2003-2004, but the violoncello da spalla currently played by Sigiswald Kuijken was finished in 2005 (so is indicated in your images). Although I can be wrong because Kuijken has reintroduced the instrument on stage since 2004. 
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 24, 2009, 02:02:10 PM
Badiarov has written an enlightening article about baroque strings................

BTW, I think Badiarov developed his reconstruction in 2003-2004, but the violoncello da spalla currently played by Sigiswald Kuijken was finished in 2005 (so is indicated in your images). Although I can be wrong because Kuijken has reintroduced the instrument on stage since 2004. 


Antoine - thanks for the link - I did not explore Badiarov's website, but will do later!

Concerning the dates & pics posted; in the liner notes Kuijken states that 'his' instrument was completed in 2004; the recordings on this 2-CD set were made in 2006-7 - I'm assuming that the picture of him holding his 'shoulder-cello' is the one used for these recordings, but not sure if the instrument in various views (and labelled as made in 2005) is the same one?  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on May 26, 2009, 03:27:11 PM
Well, my answer is the same on the Reply #52, jochanaan.  :)
Oh, so it is!  For some reason I didn't see that particular reply before I wrote my own. :-[ Sorry for "putting words in your mouth." :-\
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2009, 05:53:38 PM
Oh, so it is!  For some reason I didn't see that particular reply before I wrote my own. :-[ Sorry for "putting words in your mouth." :-\

No problem at all, jochanaan.  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on May 26, 2009, 07:04:08 PM

Concerning the dates & pics posted; in the liner notes Kuijken states that 'his' instrument was completed in 2004; the recordings on this 2-CD set were made in 2006-7 - I'm assuming that the picture of him holding his 'shoulder-cello' is the one used for these recordings, but not sure if the instrument in various views (and labelled as made in 2005) is the same one?  Dave  :)

Finally, I did read Kuijken’s liner notes. It is an interesting reading, but more complete information can be found in the 25-pages Badiarov’s article entitled “The Violoncello, Viola da Spalla and Viola Pomposa in Theory and Practice”. If you sign up for news on his blog, that article is sent as a gift.

As Dave recalled in his last post, there Kuijken says: “In spring 2004 the instrument was ready – I could not have wished for a more delightful present for my sixtieth birthday. The maker Dmitry Badiarov (also violinist himself), and I found the result very convincing and enlightening, and that was for me (and not only for me) the start of a new adventure, which, for several years now, has met with some response in the Early Music World”.

That was, therefore, Sigiswald’s violoncello da spalla number one.

The process is remembered for Badiarov in the following terms: “The history of my reconstruction goes back to the concert tour of La Petite Bande in 2003 when Sigiswald Kuijken, the conductor, asked me if such an instrument - a viola pomposa as we called it then - could be made. After a moment of reflection I told that theoretically it must be possible”. He adds: “I worked on several instruments simultaneously: one for Sigiswald Kuijken and one for Samantha Montgomery. The next instrument was made for Ryo Terakado”. 

In the entry of Badiarov’s blog on March 23, 2009, it is said: “This is the second violoncello da spalla I made for Sigiswald roughly a year ago. The instrument can be heard on this CD” and an hyperlink conducts to ours discs.

Apparently the problem would be solved: The violoncello da spalla played by Sigiswald is the second one made for him by Badiarov.

But one problem of dates arises: Kuijken recorded his discs in two different dates: 4-7 December 2006 and 26 and 30 December 2007. If the second cello da spalla was made “roughly a year ago”, as Badiarov states, it could not be used in 2006.

Another possibility: Badiarov has an awful memory and he finished the second cello in 2005 and that is the instrument showed in the artwork by Kuijken.

Or two different instruments are used?

Below Sigiswald and the so-called (for me  ;D) second violoncello da spalla:
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 27, 2009, 03:52:49 AM
Antoine - thanks for the additional information and the pics which better show the strap around his neck to help support and instrument - barely seen on the album photo of him.  Dave
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Que on August 06, 2009, 09:34:08 PM
Dave, just posting this cover that I came accross, when browsing for CD's by the viols ensemble Fretwork. Some impressive and intriguing looking instruments! :o :)

(http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/109/013/10901355/600x600.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 07, 2009, 06:13:11 AM
Dave, just posting this cover that I came accross, when browsing for CD's by the viols ensemble Fretwork. Some impressive and intriguing looking instruments! :o :)

(http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/109/013/10901355/600x600.jpg)

Q - thanks for that 'cover art' of the beautiful viols!  I love Fretwork and own a number of their discs (and just added the one you posted on in the listening thread to my 'wish list'!) -  :)

Gurn referred me yesterday to a luthier website HERE (http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/sale.htm) that I had not visited before; out of the UK - below is just one set of lute images, but there are dozens of pics of different kinds of string instruments for those who love to look at beautifully hand-crafted wooden objects!

(http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/images/WF6c.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 07, 2009, 06:25:15 AM
Although I posted the pics below in Gurn's Classical thread, I thought that re-posting here would be appropriate -  :D

Last few days I've been listening to the 3-CD Brilliant set of Mauro Giuliani's (1781-1829) Complete Guitar Duos performed by Claudio Maccari & Paolo Pugliese (Website HERE (http://www.maccaripugliese.com/home.html?L=1)) - these are about as HIP as possible!  Six different original guitars are used on the recordings, which belonged to Giuliani or Paganini (one shown below was owned by Giuliani); gut strings were used and all done by historical criteria known.  Half of the booklet includes 3 pages about the making of guitars at that time and the specific shops/individuals who constructed the instruments.

(http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/erg/pics/Giuliani-duos-MP.jpg)  (http://www.maccaripugliese.com/pool/files/cg_chitarra_giuliani_3.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 07, 2009, 02:23:30 PM
Today, I was listening to a new acquisition (below, left) - The Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (description HERE on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Fitzwilliam-Virginal-Book-Martin-Souter/dp/B000JGG7NY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1252364147&sr=1-1)) - this is a 2-CD collection of 'keyboard' works of English Renaissance composers, mainly William Byrd & Peter Philips; instruments used include harpsichord, clavichord, organ, and virginal.

Pertinent to this thread for me was the virginal(s), either spelling is correct for a single instrument; the second disc of this set is mainly Byrd's music played on a reproduced virginal made by David Law in 1983; however, no pics are provided in the brief liner notes of this recording nor can I find much information on the web.  The virginal uses the same mechanism as a harpsichord, i.e. plucked metal strings - but the strings are struck more in their middle giving a different sound, almost like a plucked hand-held instrument; plus, the sound recording on this disc is just superb - really sounds like the performer is in your listening room! 

A little more on the 'virginal' in this Wiki Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginals), for those interested.  This instrument was often built as a 'smaller' and more rectangular version of the harpsichord, some even w/o stands (a pic added below right, but many variations) - kind of reminds me of the analogy of pianos, i.e. grands, 'baby' grands, and uprights!  Susan (i.e. Harpo) has an 'upright' piano (Mason & Hamlin) in our living room; has a vertical 'baby' grand piano frame, so sounds great - she actually took piano lessons on this instrument as a youngster - given to us by her parents many years ago (50+ yrs old and sounds beautiful!).

Bottom line - this is a wonderful 2-CD set of English Renaissance keyboard music; the recording is just superb; and the virginal instrument is a revelation to me, just sounds beautiful, intimate, and a perfect choice for this music - can't ask for much more!  ;D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/640316456_RE7hn-O.jpg) (http://www.hpschd.nu/g/tpw/k/virginal.jpeg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Franco on September 07, 2009, 02:38:20 PM
Quote
Today, I was listening to a new acquisition (below, left) - The Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (description HERE on Amazon) - this is a 2-CD collection of 'keyboard' works of English Renaissance composers, mainly William Byrd & Peter Philips; instruments used include harpsichord, clavichord, organ, and virginal.

I have these works on a LP performed by Christopher Hogwood, who uses the full compliment of instruments; a virginal from 1642 made by Thomas White, London.

I agree they are delightful.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: DavidW on September 07, 2009, 03:29:14 PM
That's a very petite instrument Dave! :)

Which reminds me, sometime I would like to hear some of Bach's keyboard works on one of those little clavichords that he liked to play on. :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on October 04, 2009, 06:34:15 AM
The last few days, I've been playing the Felix Mendelssohn CD below - Piano Trio & Sextet played on 'period' instruments, including a restored Conrad Graf (Vienna, 1835) fortepiano (Penelope Crawford, keyboardist) - an Antoine recommendation which is on the Musica Omnia label. 

The instrument was restored by Edward Swenson (http://www.mozartpiano.com/en/) - check the link for some interesting 'before & after' appearances of these various types of pianos.  The CD booklet is excellent (about 18 pages, English only) and includes a couple of pages by Swenson on the restoration of the fortepiano; the piano is in the Opus 2148 line w/ triple-strung strings and a 6 1/2 octave range - four pedals are present and the hammers can be shifted to strike 1, 2, or 3 strings.

Below are several additional pics of Crawford and her restored fortepiano - I've already ordered another disc of this group's Mendelssohn, i.e. the other Piano Trio by Felix and the one by his sister, Fanny - well also the 200th year of his birth (not to mention that of Darwin & Lincoln; and the death of Haydn - momentous!).  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/668544417_TWyFH-O.jpg)

(http://www.gothic-catalog.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/penelope%20crawfordl.jpg)  (http://www.gothic-catalog.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/graf%20piano.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: DavidW on October 04, 2009, 06:47:43 AM
Mendelssohn played on a fortepiano!? :o  When was the modern piano invented anyway?  I've heard that the piano unlike some of the other instruments, was really finalized in the 19th century but still saw improvements throughout the 20th century.  Still that's so ridiculous!  Romantic music on a fortepiano! :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on October 04, 2009, 07:09:59 AM
Mendelssohn played on a fortepiano!? :o  When was the modern piano invented anyway?  I've heard that the piano unlike some of the other instruments, was really finalized in the 19th century but still saw improvements throughout the 20th century.  Still that's so ridiculous!  Romantic music on a fortepiano! :D

Well, although many innovations were involved w/ the evolution of the 'modern' piano, I usually think of the latter as being constructed w/ a metal frame, particularly a single-forged one - these did not start appearing until the mid-19th century and were adopted and perfected after that time (below is a short quote from a Wiki Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano)); of course, Mendelssohn died in 1847, so he would of been brought up using the keyboard instruments of the early 19th century based on wood frames, and certainly would have composed for those instruments; hopefully, some of our more 'piano-oriented' members might provide more detailed discussion - Dave  :)


Quote
The single piece cast iron frame was patented in 1825 in Boston by Alpheus Babcock, combining the metal hitch pin plate (1821, claimed by Broadwood on behalf of Samuel Hervé) and resisting bars (Thom and Allen, 1820, but also claimed by Broadwood and Érard). Babcock later worked for the Chickering & Mackays firm who patented the first full iron frame for grand pianos in 1843. Composite forged metal frames were preferred by many European makers until the American system was fully adopted by the early 20th century.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on October 04, 2009, 08:58:42 AM
The last few days, I've been playing the Felix Mendelssohn CD below - Piano Trio & Sextet played on 'period' instruments, including a restored Conrad Graf (Vienna, 1835) fortepiano (Penelope Crawford, keyboardist) - an Antoine recommendation which is on the Musica Omnia label. 

The instrument was restored by Edward Swenson (http://www.mozartpiano.com/en/) - check the link for some interesting 'before & after' appearances of these various types of pianos.  The CD booklet is excellent (about 18 pages, English only) and includes a couple of pages by Swenson on the restoration of the fortepiano; the piano is in the Opus 2148 line w/ triple-strung strings and a 6 1/2 octave range - four pedals are present and the hammers can be shifted to strike 1, 2, or 3 strings.

Penelope Crawford is a charming fortepianist. I even like her resounding and evocative name.  :D

I have her Schubert's Winterreise in the same label, with Max van Egmond, and it is a recording to die for,  IMO superior to van Egmond/Immerseel on Channel Classics and by far superior to Mammel/Schoonderwoerd on Alpha, just to mention two another HIP versions. For the first time I have felt the keyboard -the same Conrad Graf’s grand piano Opus 2148- as an equal emotional partner of the singer, full of shades, different timbres and colors.

 :)



well also the 200th year of his birth (not to mention that of Darwin & Lincoln; and the death of Haydn - momentous!).  :D

And the next year is the 200th anniversary of Robert Schumann, who was born in 1810.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 10, 2009, 02:25:38 PM
Haydn, Joseph - Keyboard Sonatas et al performed by Derek Adlam on the clavichord, an instrument he built in 1982; description quoted below from HERE (http://www.guildmusic.com/catalog/gui7260z.htm); includes the full liner notes!

I own little clavichord music but love the sound of the instrument when recorded well - this disc (a Gurn recommendation IIRC) is a good representative -  :)

Quote
The clavichord was made by Derek Adlam in 1982. It is a copy of an instrument of 1763 by Johann Adolph Hass, Hamburg, Russell Collection, Edinburgh. Strung throughout in brass, the clavichord has a five-octave compass of FF to f3, unfretted, with an additional 4 foot string in the bass. The pitch is a1 = 405Hz, an approximation of mid-18th century Hamburg pitch. It is tuned in a sixth-comma system (Young 2), allowing free modulation but retaining a sense of key and chord colour.


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnAdlamClav/737226656_Xufhk-O.jpg)  (http://www.guildmusic.com/jpg/clavic1.jpg) 

(http://www.guildmusic.com/jpg/clavic2.jpg)  (http://www.guildmusic.com/jpg/clavic3.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on December 10, 2009, 06:56:36 PM
Rebuilding An Instrument By Leonardo's Design (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121298993) (NPR story) 8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 19, 2009, 10:12:41 AM
Below is a part of my OP to this thread on old instruments and modern reproductions; well I just obtained the second volume of Jakob Lindberg playing the lute music of Silvius Weiss (1687-1750); on the first volume an old/restored Rauwolf lute was used which has 11-courses of strings (all of which can be fretted); for the second volume, a modern reproduction lute was used (Michael Lowe, 1982) which has 13-courses w/ a number of the bass strings extended from the fretboard, i.e. a Baroque lute - Weiss wrote music throughout his career for both of these instruments from different eras, so Lindberg's decision to use the lute w/ more strings was largely dependent on the compositions chosen for the performances.

Of course, the interesting part are the differences in sound, and I've been listening to these two discs back-to-back; the Rauwolf lute does have a 'lighter and less vibrant' sound, likely related to many factors, including the lack of the additional bass strings; the Lowe reproduction sounds 'deeper and brighter' - Lindberg as usual is superb on both of these instruments and both discs are worth owning not only for having some music by Weiss in your lute collection (the guy was the MOST prolific lute composer of all time!) but also to hear the differences between these two instruments; some more information HERE (http://www.bis.se/album_info.php?aID=BIS-CD-1534) on the BIS website!  :D


Quote
But, I'll make a first discussion post on the lute, an ancient instrument likely introduced into Europe by the Iberian invasion of the Moors, and modified for many centuries peaking in popularity in the 16th & early 17th centuries; I own a lot of stringed instrument music, including many recordings on the lute, but just received the one below in the mail:

Jakob Lindberg playing Weiss lute compositions on the 'Sixtus Rauwolf lute', an instrument dating from 1590 and beautifully restored - an abbreviated description (more details in the CD booklet) of the lute is quoted below from Lindberg's website -

Quote
In 1991 I bought a very rare original lute at Sotheby's in London by Sixtus Rauwolf, a prolific luthier who lived and worked in Augsburg. Only three other lutes by him have survived; one is in the Metropolitan Museum in New York, one in the Claudius Collection in Copenhagen and one in a private collection in England. My instrument is from c 1590 and was originally a 7 or 8 course lute. Inside there is a repair label by Leonard Mausiel, dated Nuremberg 1715 and the present neck, which allows for ten or eleven courses, is probably made by him. Dendochronology confirms that the soundboard is original and dates it 1423-1560. This instrument is thus to my knowledge the oldest lute in playing condition with its original soundboard.

(http://www.musicamano.com/discography/samples/bis1524.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/WeissLindbergII/744688258_ZN8Lj-S.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 19, 2009, 02:05:02 PM
Quote
Beethoven, LV - Cello Works w/ Lambert Orkis on a Steinway piano and 3 different fortepianos (that span the eras that these works were written) & David Hardy on a Carlo Testore 1694 cello strung w/ steel & with gut strings; a recommendation of Brian (thanks, buddy!) - on the Dorian label.

Four (4) discs in a fold-out wallet w/ a 24 page booklet; the cello/keyboard works played both on modern instruments and on period ones - I'm playing the discs of the different instruments back-to-back; now on the second set - will deserve a longer post in the 'old instrument' thread, but really a unique approach to the issue of works played on modern vs. period instruments - enjoying!  :D  P.S. - $25 from Dorian!

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BeethovenOrkisHardy/744688227_bNJKd-O.jpg)

Above is a post that I just left in the 'listening thread' that warrants further discussion here for those who may be interested not only in Beethoven's Cello Works but also in the question of period vs. modern instrument performances; this is a unique offering by Dorian of two experienced performers on their respective instruments, i.e. keyboard & cello playing these compositions w/ both a modern and period approach, hence the need for 4 discs (at really a bargain price!).

The cello used in these recordings was made by Carlo Giuseppe Testore in 1694 out of Milan, Italy; the instrument was strung w/ steel strings for the modern interpretations, and w/ gut strings for the period recordings; the gut strings were made by Damian Dlugolecki (Website HERE (http://www.damianstrings.com/index.shtml)).  Not sure if different bows and/or bowing techniques were used?

The pianos varied; a Steinway Model C recently manufactured in Hamburg, Germany was used for the modern recordings, while three (3) different fortepianos were played for the period performances; these 'matched' the time periods of the compositions of the pieces and included a Wolf-Dulcken, Wolf-Streicher, & a Regier 'Grafendorfer'; the liner notes go into considerable detail on the features and differences of these various fortepianos, and the reasons that Orkis chose one over the other in the period performances; he also discussed the advantages and limitations (and the interaction w/ the cello) of the various selection of instruments.  A listing of the works on Dorian HERE (http://www.dorian.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=5996) -  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 26, 2009, 10:23:35 AM
Well, since my earlier post today on the Glass (H)Armonica, I was curious whether other recordings might be available - certainly the link provided previously showed a handful of offerings - my searching found another WEBSITE HERE (http://www.glassarmonica.com/index.php), and a performer named William Zeitler - check out the 'Video' section of the home menu for a bunch of YouTube performances!

Plus, he has recorded a number of CDs (some of original music for the instrument!) - just two are shown below - anyone know these offerings?  Both received 5* ratings on Amazon:



Last week, a local musician who plays the glass harmonica came to our school to demonstrate her instrument and kindly spent the entire day with us playing and talking about it to our students. The kids were impressed with the presentation, especially after I told them that this was an instrument most people will never see and hear (let alone touch) in person during their lifetimes. Her website is here:

www.myspace.com/verameyer (http://www.myspace.com/verameyer)

It was interesting that some of the kids reported some discomfort from the notes being played. I'm sure there are overtones produced that can only be heard by young ears, and this effect may be party responsible for the 18th century belief that the glass harmonica caused insanity. (Possibly the lead absorbed by the player's fingers from the leaded glass would be a more plausible explanation.)

Coincidentally, a high school buddy of mine worked for the company that produces glass harmonicas (Finkenbeiner Inc., of Waltham, Massachusetts) and probably helped make the one brought to the demonstration before he left to start his own firm after the company founder, Gerhard B. Finkenbeiner, mysteriously disappeared in his airplane.

(If you know where he is, you can get a $10,000 reward:  http://www.finkenbeiner.com/reward.htm (http://www.finkenbeiner.com/reward.htm)   )

These are two recordings I have and enjoy:


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CmQeHo%2B9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(http://www.philamuseumstore.org/istarimages/mp/30061-996_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 26, 2009, 03:43:26 PM
Last week, a local musician who plays the glass harmonica came to our school to demonstrate her instrument and kindly spent the entire day with us playing and talking about it to our students. The kids were impressed with the presentation, especially after I told them that this was an instrument most people will never see and hear (let alone touch) in person during their lifetimes............................

Tony - thanks for that great story about the glass harmonica - kids must have loved the experience - I was planning to purchase some more discs of this instrument, but was side-tracked, I guess -  :-\

I'm still quite interested in the CDs asked about on my earlier post and the performer mentioned, but will certainly take a look at those of your visiting musician and your other links - seems to be more available recordings than I had imagined!  Dave  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 26, 2009, 04:54:21 PM
I'm still quite interested in the CDs asked about on my earlier post and the performer mentioned, but will certainly take a look at those of your visiting musician and your other links - seems to be more available recordings than I had imagined!  Dave  :D

Yes, there is a surprising amount. There is a CD link at this Finkenbeiner site, also:

http://www.finkenbeiner.com/GLASSHARMONICA.htm (http://www.finkenbeiner.com/GLASSHARMONICA.htm)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on December 30, 2009, 06:59:28 PM

Sigiswald Kuijken plays Suite nr BWV1007 prelude on the viola da spalla:


http://www.youtube.com/v/VFZ0HHMIMn0


Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on December 30, 2009, 07:29:23 PM
Above is a post that I just left in the 'listening thread' that warrants further discussion here for those who may be interested not only in Beethoven's Cello Works but also in the question of period vs. modern instrument performances; this is a unique offering by Dorian of two experienced performers on their respective instruments, i.e. keyboard & cello playing these compositions w/ both a modern and period approach, hence the need for 4 discs (at really a bargain price!).

The cello used in these recordings was made by Carlo Giuseppe Testore in 1694 out of Milan, Italy; the instrument was strung w/ steel strings for the modern interpretations, and w/ gut strings for the period recordings; the gut strings were made by Damian Dlugolecki (Website HERE (http://www.damianstrings.com/index.shtml)).  Not sure if different bows and/or bowing techniques were used?

The pianos varied; a Steinway Model C recently manufactured in Hamburg, Germany was used for the modern recordings, while three (3) different fortepianos were played for the period performances; these 'matched' the time periods of the compositions of the pieces and included a Wolf-Dulcken, Wolf-Streicher, & a Regier 'Grafendorfer'; the liner notes go into considerable detail on the features and differences of these various fortepianos, and the reasons that Orkis chose one over the other in the period performances; he also discussed the advantages and limitations (and the interaction w/ the cello) of the various selection of instruments.  A listing of the works on Dorian HERE (http://www.dorian.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=5996) -  :)

So, Dave, what did you think of it? Is it worth to augment my 5 cycles of these works with 2 more? I am intrigued by the concept, but the only comparison I have right now is the unfortunate Diabelli Variations disk(s) on Naxos, where the differences in the instruments too a back seat to the pianist, who wasn't... Kempff or Serkin. :-\

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Floregium - RV 107 Concerto in g for Flute, Oboe, Violin & Bassoon 2nd mvmt - Largo
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 31, 2009, 03:02:35 PM
So, Dave, what did you think of it? Is it worth to augment my 5 cycles of these works with 2 more? I am intrigued by the concept, but the only comparison I have right now is the unfortunate Diabelli Variations disk(s) on Naxos, where the differences in the instruments too a back seat to the pianist, who wasn't... Kempff or Serkin. :-\


Hello, Gurn - I've probably gone through a half dozen recordings of these works over the years; now down to two 'modern' ones + the addition of the 4-disc set discussed, so guess that I currently have 4 different interpretations.  Not sure if you have a 'period' version, but if not, certainly a consideration for your collection - can always 'cull out' a set or two that may not be getting much play time?

I've listened to that new set three times now and must say that the period instrument interpretations are my preference - the cello is just much more mellow and the foretepianos used complement the string performance beautifully.  In addition, the 4 discs are reasonably priced on the Dorian website.  I don't believe that these recordings would disappoint you at all (if not the opposite!) - but do you need 7 sets for these works?   ;) :D  Dave
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on January 03, 2010, 02:54:25 PM
Posted yesterday in the listening thread, with a clamorous reception  :), I think this is the natural place for this information:

Le Salon de Musique de Marie-Antoinette
Sandrine Chatron (harp)
Isabelle Poulenard (soprano)
Jean-François Lombard (tenor)
Stéphanie Paulet (violin)
Amélie Michel (flute)
rec. Musée de la Musique, Cité de la Musique, Paris, June 2008. DDD
AMBROISIE AM179 [77:33]

Delightful examples of ‘musique du intérieur’, intimate salon repertory not intended for concert hall –like the great “neoclassical” tragédie lyrique of Gluck or the opéra comique of Gréty or Monsigny-, but the music that Marie-Antoinette played daily on the harp or the harpsichord, or even sang.

The real protagonist of this recording is the marvelous Érard harp, Paris, 1799, played by Sandrine Chatron.

History:
It is a single-action instrument with a “fork” mechanism (á fourchettes). Its flutted forepillar is surmounted by a Doric capital decorated with rams’ heads. The whole instrument is painted in the style of harpsichord soundboards, with polychrome trophies, medallions, bouquets and foliage. The instrument entered the collection of the Musée de la Musique in 1981 as part of the bequest of Madame Antoinette Marotte de Quiviéres.

Characteristics of the instrument:
Forty-one gut strings (the five lowest strings with wire-covered silk). Compass: five octaves and five notes (F’-d’’’’). Text engraved on the metal part of the neck: Érard frères par Brevet d’invention , á Paris, 1799; N°7. Single action operadted by seven steel pedals located in the base. Each of these pedals, when depressed, shortens all the strings of the same note-name (C, D, etc.) by a length corresponding to a semitone. Eight pedal which opens and closes five shutters placed at the back of the soundbox. The instrument has been tuned and maintained by Beat Wolf (maker and restorer of harps). Pitch: a’=430 Hz. 

The recording covers a beautiful, intimate repertory by different composers, including a nice romance for sopran & harp called "C'est mon ami" (1773), composed by Marie-Antoinette herself (I found this one as example on You Tube). 

Francesco PETRINI (1744-1819)
Les Folies d’Espagne, and 12 variations for harp
Christophe Willibald GLUCK (1714-1787)
‘J’ai perdu mon Eurydice’ for tenor and harp
Jean-Baptiste KRUMPHOLTZ (1742-1790)
‘L’amante abandonée’ for soprano, violin and harp
‘La nuit profonde’ for tenor and harp
Sonata in F major for harp and violin
Jean-Baptiste CARDON (1760-1803)
Sonata in E flat for harp
Antoine DAUVERGNE (1713-1797)
‘Tircis et Cloris s’absentent chaque jour de leur troupeau’ for soprano, tenor, violin and harp
‘La beauté pour qui je brûle’ for tenor, violin and harp
‘C’est une folie d’avoir tant d’appâts’ for tenor, violin and harp
Joseph-Boulogne de SAINT-GEORGES (1745-1799)
Sonata in E flat for harp and flute
Marie-Antoinette (1755-1793)
‘C’est mon ami’ for soprano and harp
Wolfgang Amadeus MOZART (1756-1791)
‘Oiseaux, si tous les ans’ for soprano and harp
Adagio for glass harmonica
Jan Ladislav DUSIK (1760-1812)
Sonatine for harp
Giovanni PAISIELLO (1740-1816)
Entr’acte for harp from Il Re Teodoro in Venezia
André-Ernest-Modest GRÉTRY (1741-1813)
‘Malgré la fortune cruelle’ from La Caravane du Caire
Jean-Paul-Égide MARTINI (1741-1816)
‘Plaisir d’amour’ for soprano, tenor, violin and harp
 

http://www.youtube.com/v/mlxOr6qjaMM


Here two reviews: MUSICWEB-INTERNATIONAL (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Oct09/Salon_am179.htm) and the TELEGRAPH (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/6082041/Le-Salon-de-Musique-de-Marie-Antoinette-classical-CD-of-the-week.html)

 :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 03, 2010, 03:17:48 PM
Posted yesterday in the listening thread, with a clamorous reception  :), I think this is the natural place for this information:

Le Salon de Musique de Marie-Antoinette..................

rec. Musée de la Musique, Cité de la Musique, Paris, June 2008. DDD
AMBROISIE AM179 [77:33]

Delightful examples of ‘musique du intérieur’, intimate salon repertory not intended for concert hall –like the great “neoclassical” tragédie lyrique of Gluck or the opéra comique of Gréty or Monsigny-, but the music that Marie-Antoinette played daily on the harp or the harpsichord, or even sang.....................................

Antoine - thanks for repeating your post here & the wonderful description of the 'restored' harp - read both links & plan to add this disc to my 'wish list' - Susan & I are harp enthusiasts - she is also a soprano singer who plays on a number of Celtic harps, so should be an enjoyable disc for us, and for many reasons!  Dave  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on January 03, 2010, 03:49:45 PM
Antoine - thanks for repeating your post here & the wonderful description of the 'restored' harp - read both links & plan to add this disc to my 'wish list' - Susan & I are harp enthusiasts - she is also a soprano singer who plays on a number of Celtic harps, so should be an enjoyable disc for us, and for many reasons!  Dave  :D

I know it, Dave. I recalled that Susan (aka Harpo) is a harpist and a soprano singer. It was the mean reason to decide to repost this information here: so she will probably sing that Marie-Antoinette’s song.  :)

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 08, 2010, 05:56:40 PM
Pedal Harpsichord - another 'new' discovery for me!  :D

Basically, two harpsichords combined, one on top (played w/ the hands) and the other on the bottom (played w/ the feet) - my introduction is the 2-CD set of the Bach WTC, Bk. 1 played by Peter Watchorn, an Australian keyboardist w/ his own label, Musica Omnia (http://www.musicaomnia.org/index2.htm) -  :)

Below pics of the cover art for the WTC recordings & one of Watchorn; below that, Watchorn himself playing the 'pedal harpsichord' - noticed that he had only socks on his feet (not sure 'what' Papa Bach would have worn?); further below are some more pics of this instrument - these are all 'modern' reconstructions based on historic data.

The sound of this instrument is just wonderful - fuller & deeper, more resonant tones from the 'foot' strings - I will definitely plan to purchased the WTC, Bk. 2, when released!  :D


Back on the third page (post #40) of this thread (beginning above w/o the pics - but please backup and take a look if not done already); Peter Watchorn's release of Bach's WTC II has just been mailed - extended out to 3 full discs in a fold out package slightly thicker than a standard jewel box.  I'm really enjoying these recordings - reviews may take a number of months to appear, but if interested in the 'pedal harpsichord', then a nice combination of Books I & II.

Pertinent to this thread, I just wanted to mention the instruments used; two of course, an upper dual manual one shown below (right); the lower 'pedal' instrument not demonstrated.  The liner notes for this release are just excellent, much written by Watchorn.  The upper harpsichord is a large German-style instrument by A. R. McAllister (1999)  derived from one by the Saxon builder, Johann Harrass (1662-1714).  The pedal harpsichord was built by Hubbard & Broekman in 1990 after a design by the shop's director; none of the latter have survived to the present, so designs are based on historic records/designs.  Great stuff!  ;D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachWTCIIWatchornA/758744700_Cj5Ky-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachWTCIIWatchornB/758744411_3GciN-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 30, 2010, 03:16:49 PM
Bach, JS - Orchestral Suites - new recording (2007) w/ Monica Huggett & Ensemble Sonnerie, plus Gonzalo X. Ruiz on oboe (including his reconstruction of Suite No. 2 for oboe rather than flute or violin) - revisionist original reconstructions of these 'collective' suites which were likely from Bach's earlier years.  So, why put this disc here?  First, period instrument performance including Ruiz on a Baroque oboe (in addition, he is a recognized expert in 'reed construction' of the era - even has multiple examples in the Met in NYC!); and second, an attempt to reconstruct these suites from their original combinations of a much smaller group on instruments w/ fewer strings and more balanced emphasis on the winds.

I'm really enjoying this disc at the moment, and want to compare to my older recordings of these works which do have a 'heavy' emphasis on the strings - this might 'open one's eyes' - for the better?  Don't know unless one gives the recording a listen -  :D



(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BachOrchSuitesHuggett/776859905_XaJBq-O.jpg)  (http://www.voicesofmusic.org/Images/GonzaloRuiz-March2009.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 10, 2010, 10:24:03 AM
I know it, Dave. I recalled that Susan (aka Harpo) is a harpist and a soprano singer. It was the mean reason to decide to repost this information here: so she will probably sing that Marie-Antoinette’s song.  :)

Well, I received the disc described by Antoine - different cover art but same music; compilation of 'chamber' or 'salon' pieces from the late 18th century.  Of course, one of the major attractions is the restored Erard harp from 1799 w/ gut strings - the sound is just beautiful, kind of between a modern concert harp and the Celtic ones that Susan plays @ home.  There are pictures in the liner notes that I'll scan later and add to this post -  :)

P.S. - added an image scanned from the liner notes of the actual instrument - beautiful!

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/MarieAntoinette/782266458_jtAwd-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HarpErard/785592442_ButYU-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 10, 2010, 10:47:42 AM
Tangent Piano - I now have at least two discs w/ Miklos Spanyi playing this fascinating 'early' piano which was somewhat popular in the 18th century, and likely played by many of the keyboard composers of the era.  Spanyi seems to be specializing in this instrument - his HUGE project is recording the CPE Bach keyboard solo and orchestral works using the tangent piano - I've not yet 'bought into' these recordings, mainly because there are just too many (3 dozen or so?) and each is not cheap on the BIS label - maybe a 'box set' in the future, but when?

A brief description and history can be found in a Wiki article HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangent_piano) - the name obviously derives from the tangent (or vertical) action of striking the strings (other similar instruments would include the clavichord, fortepiano, and modern piano); however, the tangent piano uses slips of wood (possibly covered w/ thin leather) to hit the strings, along w/ a variety of other options to modify the sound.  An interesting description of an even early tangent instrument is described by CJ Barlow HERE (http://barlowharps.com/tangentweb.html).

I'm really enjoying the sound of this instrument which may of course relate to Spanyi's playing and his instrument (a later one for the period, reconstructed from one after Baldassare Pastori, 1799) - could find only a 'small' image (inserted below).  I would love to acquire some other recordings played on this historic piano precursor -  :D



(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AbelOpus2/614218352_mgQJm-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/EdelmannSpanyi/784905064_zg28f-O.jpg)  (http://d2umcibyw4ztss.cloudfront.net/img/51515/51515-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 17, 2010, 03:19:32 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/03/!BltWL3QBWk~$(KGrHqEH-D8EtW,EFpJ5BLcwKH,OCw~~_35.JPG)

Unfortunately, I don't have 20 million dollars in spare change available to bid on these two beauties, although I did recently buy a nice Guarneri copy from a local dealer I know who I fortuitously bumped into one morning at Dunkin' Donuts.  He asked me to stop by to take a look at the violin, which I immediately bought for a much more affordable price. It only needed a new nut, bridge, tailgut, and strings, and in about an hour I had it back in playing condition. The background information for these two genuine instruments is fascinating:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GUARNERI-DEL-GESUS-1720-TWO-FINE-ITALIAN-VIOLINS_W0QQitemZ290400903583QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439d3e219f (http://cgi.ebay.com/GUARNERI-DEL-GESUS-1720-TWO-FINE-ITALIAN-VIOLINS_W0QQitemZ290400903583QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439d3e219f)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 17, 2010, 04:44:05 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/03/!BltWL3QBWk~$(KGrHqEH-D8EtW,EFpJ5BLcwKH,OCw~~_35.JPG)

Unfortunately, I don't have 20 million dollars in spare change available to bid on these two beauties, although I did recently buy a nice Guarneri copy from a local dealer I know who I fortuitously bumped into one morning at Dunkin' Donuts.  He asked me to stop by to take a look at the violin, which I immediately bought for a much more affordable price. It only needed a new nut, bridge, tailgut, and strings, and in about an hour I had it back in playing condition. The background information for these two genuine instruments is fascinating:

Tony - fascinating story as suggested!  But, I believe that I'll pass on the bidding at 20 Mils - however, quite generous of seller to offer 'free shipping' -  ;) ;D   Dave
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 28, 2010, 02:35:01 PM
Istanbul w/ Jordi Savall, Hesperion XXI, and many guests on different near eastern/Turkish musical instruments, including the oud (below, right) - the instruments listed include the ney, tanbur, santur, viele, kanun, variety of percussions, and others - there are plenty of pics in the liner notes showing these wooden beauties! 

In the booklet, a personage named Dimitrie Cantemir (1673-1723) is discussed; from Moldavia (eastern Europe, now part of Romania, Ukraine, etc.) - he was a fleeting prince of the country, a polyglot, writer, diplomat, musician, and likely other roles!  Put together a book on the 'Science of Music' and the 'Musical Traditions of the Sepharades and Armeniennes' - I'm assuming that much of the material on this disc is gather from these writings.

The music is haunting and wonderfully performed; it is exotic to my western ears but thoroughly intriguing and enjoyable - recommended by Brian not too long ago - if your into mixed-culture near eastern musical genres dating back to the Ottoman Empire, then this may just be the CD for you!  :D


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BW0AxtK3YO4/SxPXw3W4pbI/AAAAAAAAAFI/O0s10jIXUhk/s1600/cover.jpg)  (http://static.zoovy.com/img/andreasinc/-/O/oud4_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 28, 2010, 02:28:42 PM
Well just posted in the 'listening thread' on a new acquisition that seems appropriate here:

Giustini, Lodovico (1685-1743) - Fortepiano Sonatas performed by Adrea Coen on a copy of a 1726 original instrument made by Bartolomeo Cristofori, the inventor of the 'piano' - the copy was made by Kerstin Schwarz; a picture of the keyboard is shown below from her husband's (Tony Chinnery) website HERE (http://www.gb.early-keyboard.com/Piano.htm) -  :D

These Fortepiano Sonatas were first published in 1732 (of course the year of Haydn's birth!) and were written specifically for Cristofori's instrument; so quite a 'confluence of the stars' here - a copy of an early piano by the inventor, himself, plus presumably the first keyboard works specifically composed for the instrument!

Now, how does this 'foretepiano' sound - well quite good!  Not as full or resonant as some of the works later in the century recorded by many fortepianists, but quite enjoyable, well performed by Coen, and obviously of great historic value to those interested in the early development of this instrument -  :)


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/GiustiniSonatasCoen/850959348_cpUJD-O.jpg)  (http://www.gb.early-keyboard.com/images/piano/front.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: petrarch on April 28, 2010, 04:38:51 PM
This is quite good, and the recordings are excellent:

http://www.outhere-music.com/store-RIC_100-en (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-RIC_100-en)

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/2100/BIG.JPG)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 28, 2010, 04:50:33 PM
This is quite good, and the recordings are excellent:

http://www.outhere-music.com/store-RIC_100-en (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-RIC_100-en)

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/2100/BIG.JPG)

Hello petrArch - that set looks fascinating - offered on Amazon USA for just over $50 - my only question is how is the English version - does it exist?  That would be my main decision for a purchase, i.e. something that I can read or watch - thanks for any inputs?  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 29, 2010, 03:39:59 AM
Tangent Piano - I now have at least two discs w/ Miklos Spanyi playing this fascinating 'early' piano which was somewhat popular in the 18th century, and likely played by many of the keyboard composers of the era.  Spanyi seems to be specializing in this instrument - his HUGE project is recording the CPE Bach keyboard solo and orchestral works using the tangent piano - I've not yet 'bought into' these recordings, mainly because there are just too many (3 dozen or so?) and each is not cheap on the BIS label - maybe a 'box set' in the future, but when?

A brief description and history can be found in a Wiki article HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangent_piano) - the name obviously derives from the tangent (or vertical) action of striking the strings (other similar instruments would include the clavichord, fortepiano, and modern piano); however, the tangent piano uses slips of wood (possibly covered w/ thin leather) to hit the strings, along w/ a variety of other options to modify the sound.  An interesting description of an even early tangent instrument is described by CJ Barlow HERE (http://barlowharps.com/tangentweb.html).

I'm really enjoying the sound of this instrument which may of course relate to Spanyi's playing and his instrument (a later one for the period, reconstructed from one after Baldassare Pastori, 1799) - could find only a 'small' image (inserted below).  I would love to acquire some other recordings played on this historic piano precursor -  :D



(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AbelOpus2/614218352_mgQJm-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/EdelmannSpanyi/784905064_zg28f-O.jpg)  (http://d2umcibyw4ztss.cloudfront.net/img/51515/51515-1.jpg)

Now, these look interesting. I have a couple disks of tangentenflügel too; one is Guy Penson playing some Mozart and the other is Spanyi, can't remember who it is (  :-[ ) but neither is these here. I have some of Edelmann's solo sonatas (on harpsichord) and rather enjoy his music, I'll dial in that quartets disk for sure. ANd Abel is always interesting. Thanks for pointing these out, Dave!

On your other topic, the Cristofori piano, that's a "gotta have" for anyone interested in the development of the piano. Thanks for the review. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on April 29, 2010, 04:25:48 AM
I have a couple disks of tangentenflügel too; one is Guy Penson playing some Mozart...

Excellent disc, although it just includes a few piano pieces on tangentenflügel, if it is the same that I own. Do you have that disc on "Ricercar", Gurn? Because I have the version reissued by Brilliant into the Mozart Edition; but, unfortunately, are not provided details about the instruments.  :(
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 29, 2010, 04:36:33 AM
Excellent disc, although it just includes a few piano pieces on tangentenflügel, if it is the same that I own. Do you have that disc on "Ricercar", Gurn? Because I have the version reissued by Brilliant into the Mozart Edition; but, unfortunately, are not provided details about the instruments.  :(

No, no, mine is the Brilliant too. I suppose that with all that music for next to nothing, getting information too would have been a push... :D

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 29, 2010, 07:50:40 AM
Now, these look interesting. I have a couple disks of tangentenflügel too; one is Guy Penson playing some Mozart and the other is Spanyi, can't remember who it is (  :-[ ) but neither is these here. I have some of Edelmann's solo sonatas (on harpsichord) and rather enjoy his music, I'll dial in that quartets disk for sure. ANd Abel is always interesting. Thanks for pointing these out, Dave!

On your other topic, the Cristofori piano, that's a "gotta have" for anyone interested in the development of the piano. Thanks for the review. :)

Hello Gurn - yes, loving that tangent piano; I have another Spanyi disc on the way (Gamba Sonatas) -  :D

I listened to all 3 discs of that Guistini set - that copied fortepiano does have a 'lighter' sound than those played by Brautigam or Staier, but was quite enjoyable, esp. considering the 'historic' interest of that set - Dave  :)


(http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Spanyi-H01%5BBIS%5D.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 29, 2010, 08:35:31 AM
Dave & Antoine:

I just this minute bought this (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=390586) disk, we'll have a go at it. Looks quite interesting even though finding any info on it isn't easy. I'll report back. :)

8)

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/AMG/covers/full/129/1295278.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on April 29, 2010, 10:44:33 AM
Yup, that's a beauty! Hope it shows up over here soon. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: petrarch on April 30, 2010, 04:49:03 PM
Hello petrArch - that set looks fascinating - offered on Amazon USA for just over $50 - my only question is how is the English version - does it exist?  That would be my main decision for a purchase, i.e. something that I can read or watch - thanks for any inputs?  Dave  :)

The book is in french, english and german, so I guess you would be able to read it :).
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 01, 2010, 10:51:35 AM
The book is in french, english and german, so I guess you would be able to read it :).

Thanks - I was reading a lengthy review on Amazon USA which explained the organization w/ the 3 languages presented kind of simultaneously - I do English, so no problem - about $55 on the Marketplace for those who may be interested - placed on my wish list -   :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 05, 2010, 02:45:48 PM
Ellen M. Egger Quartet of Instruments - now listening to the Beethoven String Quartets performed by the Alexander SQ using this set of commissioned 'string instruments' made by Francis Kuttner in 1987 in honor of Egger.  The instruments are usually 'on loan' individually but are re-united for special performances or groups; in this instance, the recordings were made on this set of strings in 2008 (being held by the members of the ASQ in the pic below).

A small booklet came w/ the SQ set, so just quoting from the brief notes:  "the two violins were made on a 1705 Stradivari P form"; "the viola is made on a personal model"; and "the violoncello was constructed on a modified B form of Antonio Stradivari in 1709" - Kuttner spent much time in Cremona studying violin making and has received many awards; he divides his time between workshops in Cremona and San Francisco.  More information HERE (http://www.sfcv.org/main/mainarchives/main_5_4_99.php), for those interested!  :)

 


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BeethovenSQAlexanders/855957869_9tMK3-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 05, 2010, 03:28:56 PM
Dave & Antoine:

I just this minute bought this (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=390586) disk, we'll have a go at it. Looks quite interesting even though finding any info on it isn't easy. I'll report back. :)

8)

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/AMG/covers/full/129/1295278.jpg)

Well, just peeled the wrapper off this one and am well into the first work (starts with K 7). The tangent piano is a 1786 Walter, not a reproduction. It sounds really cool, sort of halfway between a harpsichord and a fortepiano. My tangent piano works on Brilliant didn't come with any liner notes, so I didn't know too much about this little beast, but this disk has decent notes (no picture though) and good notes about the 2 violins used too. Particularly interesting since one is a Stainer replica and the other is a genuine 1764 Carcassi that was never "updated" so that it still has the high-arched top. origin of all the beautiful tones and overtones that a Baroque / Classical violin produces. In any case, this is a highly commendable disk, Dave, both for the music (which we all have several times over, I think) but especially for the wonderful instruments used, which are nonpareil! :)

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Th. Leininger (Klav.); I. Schau (Viol.) - Sonate D-Dur, KV7 - 3. Menuett I & II
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 13, 2010, 04:11:25 AM
Yesterday, I left a post in the listening thread about a recording & composer new to me; the viola d' amore performer has a great website that explains the 3 discs in this series encompassing the 21 sonatas by Ariosti, which were preserved by a Swedish student working in London who copied each one - these manuscripts were stored in Stockholm, hence the name.

Another 'linked' site from Georgi's website was to the American Viola d'Amore Society of America (http://www.violadamoresocietyofamerica.org) - there are just dozens of CDs listed there; now, I have only a 'handful' of discs w/ this instrument, but for those who may look at the recordings on this site and already own a substantial collection, please leave some comments and/or recommendations!  I'm sure that many are now OOP -  :D


Quote
Ariosti, Attilio (1666-1729) - Stockholm Sonatas II w/ Thomas Georgi on viola d'amore (by Thomas Eberle, Naples, 1783) - 6 gut playing strings + 6 sympathetic strings; plus, Lucas Harris on archlute or Baroque guitar & Mime Brinkmann on violoncello - lot of information on Georgi's website HERE (http://violadamore.com/); picture below of some Eberle instruments w/ the 6/6 stringed-one likely similar to the one in this recording; excellent liner notes by Georgi; second of a 3-disc set on BIS -  :D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/AriostiStockholmII/863144595_ssyhJ-O.jpg)  (http://www.classical-music-review.org/reviews/Georgi.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 18, 2010, 07:47:14 AM
Yesterday, I left a post in the listening thread on the disc shown below - an 18th century Spanish composer, overlapping D. Scarlatti & Boccherini - the music is a lot of fun w/ the guitar added; but of interest for this thread are the instruments used:

Justo - violin by D. Badiarov, Brussels, 2003 - based on 18th century instrument-making principles.

Joglar - violoncello by Benoit Fleury, Paris, 1758.

Zonderman - guitars (2) - five course guitar by R. Salvador, Housse, 1996 after 17th century Italian model; and six string instrument by the same maker after Petijean l'Aine, Paris, c. 1800 -  :)

Quote
Juan de Ledesma (c. 1713-1781) - Sonatas Violin y Bajo w/ Justo (violin), Joglar (violoncello), and Zonderman (guitar) - Spanish violin/viola player & composer; taught by the brother of Geminiani - Italian type compositions w/ Spanish influences (like Boccherini & Scarlatti); played on 'period' instruments - Fanfare recommendation reprinted HERE (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Juan-De-Ledesma/Composer/191471-1) -  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/LedesmaBajo/863144724_Y5oyr-O.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/deLedesmaViolinGuitar/869863995_upUMv-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on June 06, 2010, 04:49:36 AM
Another 'listening thread' transfer from this morning - Christine Schornsheim on fortepiano, a copy of an 1815 instrument - story below and at the builder's website; recording from 1990 - a wonderful disc but not sure about the oboe's origins?   :)

Quote
Devienne, Francois (1759-1803) - Oboe Sonatas w/ Burkhard Glaetzner (oboe), Christinie Schornsheim (fortepiano), & Siegfried Pank (violoncello) - Schornsheim is playing on a reproduction instrument by J.C. Neupert after an original by Louis Dulcken,  c. 1815 - Neupert's Website HERE (http://www.jc-neupert.de/e/instr_2/dulcken.htm) describes and pictures the fortepiano copy (shown below, right); curiously, there is nothing in the liner notes about the oboe or cello!

The short-lived Devienne was a French woodwind virtuoso, and the first Professor of Flute at the newly established Paris Conservatory in the 1790s; he wrote hundreds of compositions, largely woodwind chamber music - I own just two other recordings of bassoon sonatas & concertos - need to at least obtain some flute works - any recommendations?   ;D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/DevienneOboeSonatas/890435594_JedEg-O.jpg)  (http://www.jc-neupert.de/e/instr_3/dulcken-gr.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on October 27, 2010, 03:19:28 PM
Well has been a while since I've visited this thread and I made the last posts -  :o

Recently, I purchased several discs from BRO of Hummel's Piano Works performed by John Khoury on a restored fortepiano by Jacob Pfister (c. 1820) - I was curious about the instrument, wrote the company (i.e. Music and Arts), and quickly received an e-mail response from Khoury himself; this also led to my purchase of his 3-CD set of the Anton Eberl Piano Sonatas et al in which 2 foretpianos were used; one was the restored Pfister fortepiano and the other a modern reconstruction of a pedal fortepiano (pics of the CD set & pedal instrument immediately below):

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/EberlKhouri1/1065568128_BQ5iZ-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/EberlKhouri2/1065568417_4MG4N-O.jpg)

I ordered the 3-CD Eberl set from Khouri on the Amazon Marketplace - he included a couple of pics of the Pfister piano before and after restoration, and via our e-mails a description of his acquisition of the piano which is quoted below w/ the actual photos at the bottom; really amazing how this fortepiano was resurrected and then brought back into playing form - John's own notes in the Eberl offering are superb and describe the composer's life, the works individually, and also the pianos used.  If you are interested in this late classical-early romantic piano genre and the instruments used at that time, this set might be a consideration -  :)

Quote
The Pfister was quite a wreck when I first encounted it in a garage in Palo Alto in 1993.  It had lost it's legs many years ago so had always been on it's side & that's why noone had bought it.  Eventually someone did & they had some very poor legs made.  But the buyer tried to restore the piano but gave up in disgust as it needed so much work. That's when he decided to sell it & I was very lucky to see it right after it went up for sale.I bought it for a ridiculously low price. However, the piano needed a huge amount of work as the action was smashed up & broken with missing hammers, rotten cloth & decaying hammer  coverings. The sound board was split in several places & completely black with 150 years of filth & the bottom of the piano also had split open. It took about 6  months of hard work to get it back into good playing order.  But it is a really wonderful piano & probably the best made of my 6 other grands. It is heard at it's best on my 3-cd set of the complete Sonatas of Anton Eberl which was released in 2008.  The piano was restored by Bjarne Dahl & I have a restoration report with photos as work progressed on it.  The action was restored by Janine Johnson.....

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/EberlKhouri3/1065568681_JD4Fy-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/EberlKhouri4/1065568792_oKAzs-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: canninator on October 28, 2010, 12:22:27 AM
Yesterday, I left a post in the listening thread on the disc shown below - an 18th century Spanish composer, overlapping D. Scarlatti & Boccherini - the music is a lot of fun w/ the guitar added; but of interest for this thread are the instruments used:

Zonderman - guitars (2) - five course guitar by R. Salvador, Housse, 1996 after 17th century Italian model; and six string instrument by the same maker after Petijean l'Aine, Paris, c. 1800 -  :)

Interesting, that is the six string in the picture and my first thought when I saw it was that it was no way near contemporary with the composer. I don't know when the pieces were published but most single strung guitars from this period were coming from Italy and France, Spanish guitars were still double strung. A description of the tuning from the original book/manuscript would probably inform us of the instrument the music was written for. Well, I'm guessing they must have done their homework  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on October 28, 2010, 05:49:28 AM
Interesting, that is the six string in the picture and my first thought when I saw it was that it was no way near contemporary with the composer. I don't know when the pieces were published but most single strung guitars from this period were coming from Italy and France, Spanish guitars were still double strung. A description of the tuning from the original book/manuscript would probably inform us of the instrument the music was written for. Well, I'm guessing they must have done their homework  :)

Reviewed the liner notes again since my post was 5 months ago - as to the time of publication, the works were in a book of violin & bass sonatas published around 1760; these were listed as just violin & bass works, but I imagine that other continuo support could be added and in Spain a guitar would seem reasonable?

The performers decided to add a guitar to these sonatas - the Baroque guitar was used in Sonatas I & IV; the pre-Romatic guitar (their terms) in Sonatas III & V; no guitar in Sonata II.

The guitarist, Bernard Zonderman, did additional studies in 2005 and obtained a Masters' Degree in lute, theorbo, and baroque guitar from the Lemmens Institute in Leuven, so is well aware of the string history before, during and after the times of these compositions - as to the Spanish guitars that existed and were used in the mid-18th century, I cannot answer that question w/o doing some research -  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 18, 2010, 06:04:53 PM
Well has been a few months since a post to this thread, so lets come TTT!  ;D

Galuppi, Baldassarre (1706-1785) - Keyboard Sonatas w/ Luca Guglielmi performed on 5 different period type instruments - all are pictured in the liner notes but in B&W small images, so I'll just described the instruments used:

Harpsichord copy by Tony Chinnery, 1995 after a Michael Mietke, Berlin, 1710.

Harpsichord copy by Kerstin Schwarz, 2009 after a Cristofori, Florence, 1698.

Fortepiano copy by Kerstin Schwarz, 1997 after Cristofori, Florence, 1726.

Clavichord copy by Kerstin Schwarz, 1999 after  Schiedmayer, Germany, 1782.

Organ restored by Marco Renolfi, 2006 after Battista & Conconne, 1752.

Wonderful recording spanning the period of these keyboard innovations and changes - the Accent recording is superb - worth a listen (or a purchase) if interested in these times -  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/GaluppiKBSonatas/1126841152_hFiqN-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 19, 2011, 11:01:58 AM
I picked up this recording yesterday while rummaging through a local Goodwill shop -- Haydn Concerti for Lira.
 
(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/010/084/0001008423_350.jpg)
 
I mentioned it on the Purchases Today thread and Antoine Marchand was able to give some interesting background information about it.
 
Congratulations! That Haydn disc catched my eye because it was a pioneer recording. AFAIK, Hugo Ruf was a gifted harpsichordist and a pioneer himself of the revival of the Early Music. I think his complete recording of the concerti for lira organizzata (played on the proper instrument, not the usual transcriptions by Haydn himself) were unique for more than 30 years and, even now, nobody has recorded the complete set again on that weird instrument.  :)

I've just finished listening to it and the music is delightful. The lira organizatta blends beautifully with the traditional strings and viola da gamba used on the recording, sometimes sounding like a recorder and at other times like a glass armonica or pipe organ depending upon the stop and range used. I suspect that had another means of powering the instrument been available at the time, it would have been more popularly utilized. The player had to crank the instrument with one hand while playing the notes on the keyboard with the other. These pieces were written for two liras (liri?), but Hugo Ruf plays both parts on a lira that is electrically powered, allowing him to use both hands.
 
Not much info on this instrument is available on the web, and searching can get confusing since it is sometimes referred to as an "organ hurdy gurdy" although it is drastically dissimilar to a real hurdy gurdy.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 19, 2011, 11:10:59 AM
Here is a photo of the lira organizzata used for the recording from the back of the album cover. Much bigger than those held by the women on the front cover illustration.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 19, 2011, 11:14:41 AM
I picked up this recording yesterday while rummaging through a local Goodwill shop -- Haydn Concerti for Lira.
 
(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/010/084/0001008423_350.jpg)
 
I mentioned it on the Purchases Today thread and Antoine Marchand was able to give some interesting background information about it.
 
I've just finished listening to it and the music is delightful. The lira organizatta blends beautifully with the traditional strings and viola da gamba used on the recording, sometimes sounding like a recorder and at other times like a glass armonica or pipe organ depending upon the stop and range used. I suspect that had another means of powering the instrument been available at the time, it would have been more popularly utilized. The player had to crank the instrument with one hand while playing the notes on the keyboard with the other. These pieces were written for two liras (liri?), but Hugo Ruf plays both parts on a lira that is electrically powered, allowing him to use both hands.
 
Not much info on this instrument is available on the web, and searching can get confusing since it is sometimes referred to as an "organ hurdy gurdy" although it is drastically dissimilar to a real hurdy gurdy.

I've been hearing about that record for years. AFAIK, it hasn't ever been converted to CD. I would be thrilled to have it. I have a couple of the concerti and one of the notturnos on actual lira, but that's all there is. My favorite recording of the notturnos is not even on PI, it is by Consortium Classicum, where the lira parts are played on a tiny barrel organ, IIRC. It sounds very cool, but still can't compare to the real deal. :'(

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Scottish National Orchestra / Neeme Jarvi - Rimsky Korsakov  'Christmas Eve'  - 'Christmas Night' - 'Ballet of the Stars' - 'Witches Sabbath' - Polonaise - 'Vakula and the Slippers'
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 19, 2011, 11:31:19 AM
I've been hearing about that record for years. AFAIK, it hasn't ever been converted to CD. I would be thrilled to have it. I have a couple of the concerti and one of the notturnos on actual lira, but that's all there is. My favorite recording of the notturnos is not even on PI, it is by Consortium Classicum, where the lira parts are played on a tiny barrel organ, IIRC. It sounds very cool, but still can't compare to the real deal. :'(

8)

Well, I'll be dogged! I had that disk all along and didn't even know it!  The Vox version (with just 3 concerti) has never been available to me, but it seems that Brilliant bought the rights and put it in the Big Box!! It would have been cool if the packaging was a little more informative that way.  :)

8)


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Now playing:
Scottish National Orchestra / Neeme Jarvi - Rimsky-Korsakov Orchestral Suite from 'Le Coq d'Or'  pt 1 - Introduction and Dodon's sleep
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 19, 2011, 03:16:48 PM
Well, I'll be dogged! I had that disk all along and didn't even know it!  The Vox version (with just 3 concerti) has never been available to me, but it seems that Brilliant bought the rights and put it in the Big Box!! It would have been cool if the packaging was a little more informative that way.  :)


Gurn - thought that I had a number of those works on the disc below, but NO just one of the lira concertos (Hob VIIh:1) & 2 lira on a Notturno (Hob II:32), along w/ another notturno & several divertimenti.  Now Amazon is offering the Ruf CD as a MP3 download for $9 w/ track listings of Hob VIIh:1 to 5 - I've not yet checked other download sites, but I may go that route & just burn the files to a CD-R; however, and as usual I'd love to have the liner notes!  Dave  :)   

P.S. Thanks Tony for putting this Ruf recording in the musical instrument thread!

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLireOrganizzate/687125418_XGMiA-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 19, 2011, 03:24:03 PM
Gurn - thought that I had a number of those works on the disc below, but NO just one of the lira concertos (Hob VIIh:1) & 2 lira on a Notturno (Hob II:32), along w/ another notturno & several divertimenti.  Now Amazon is offering the Ruf CD as a MP3 download for $9 w/ track listings of Hob VIIh:1 to 5 - I've not yet checked other download sites, but I may go that route & just burn the files to a CD-R; however, and as usual I'd love to have the liner notes!  Dave  :)   

P.S. Thanks Tony for putting this Ruf recording in the musical instrument thread!

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLireOrganizzate/687125418_XGMiA-O.jpg)

Yeah, that's what I had too, Dave. And IIRC, they had one concerto in the Naples version and another in the London version (flute & oboe). Here is another time when not getting the Big Box comes back to haunt you...   ;D   

However, there are no liner notes to speak of, so nothing missed there. I would bet that the back of Tony's LP has more info than all 3 CD's put together... :-\

8)


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Now playing:
Haydn, Franz Joseph - Hob 08 06 Marcia in Eb
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 19, 2011, 04:27:51 PM

However, there are no liner notes to speak of, so nothing missed there. I would bet that the back of Tony's LP has more info than all 3 CD's put together... :-\

8)

Yes, there's lots of information there. When I originally scanned the photo from the back of the album, I tried to include more of the description but the forum software wouldn't allow me to post it because the file was too big. I had to go back and crop and shrink the photo so it would go through. If you know of any way around this, I'd be happy to post an image of the album liner notes. With my limited typing skills, it would probably take me forever to rewrite them manually.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 19, 2011, 04:59:21 PM
Yes, there's lots of information there. When I originally scanned the photo from the back of the album, I tried to include more of the description but the forum software wouldn't allow me to post it because the file was too big. I had to go back and crop and shrink the photo so it would go through. If you know of any way around this, I'd be happy to post an image of the album liner notes. With my limited typing skills, it would probably take me forever to rewrite them manually.

Tony,
I don't know if you use a photo hosting service or not. I use photobucket.com which is free. If you upload the photo to one of those then you can post a link to it here and it will show a small version in your post, but if someone clicks on it then it goes to full size and can be read. Or alternatively, I can download and 'play' with it to make it smaller file size but still quite readable. Big scans can be a real handful to deal with, as I've learned!   :)

8)

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Now playing:
Orchestra of the Mariinsky Theater / Gergiev  Gautier Capuçon  (Cello) - Tchaikovsky Op 33 Variations in A on a Rococo Theme for Cello & Orchestra pt 6 - Variation V: Allegro moderato
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 19, 2011, 05:34:31 PM
Yes, there's lots of information there. When I originally scanned the photo from the back of the album, I tried to include more of the description but the forum software wouldn't allow me to post it because the file was too big. I had to go back and crop and shrink the photo so it would go through. If you know of any way around this, I'd be happy to post an image of the album liner notes. With my limited typing skills, it would probably take me forever to rewrite them manually.

Tony - if you have that entire back cover of the LP scanned into a large image (not sure the size but likely large), I can PM you my Yahoo e-mail address and you can send it to me (and/or Gurn) - I'm sure that I could produce an acceptable 'smaller' format or a text file that could be uploaded for those interested (including myself) - I'm about to do a MP3 download of that CD - thanks!  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 19, 2011, 07:09:36 PM
Well, I'll be dogged! I had that disk all along and didn't even know it!  The Vox version (with just 3 concerti) has never been available to me, but it seems that Brilliant bought the rights and put it in the Big Box!! It would have been cool if the packaging was a little more informative that way.  :)

 8)

And in my humble defense from Antoine's unrelenting attack, ( ;D )  I will paste in here a screenshot from the PDF "liner notes" to the Big Box:

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/BigBoxlinernoteonLiraOrg.jpg)

I read that as soon as I got the box, and never explored the disk to find that the writer was totally in error. I wonder if they originally intended to have a different version before they found these. :)

8)


----------------
Now playing:
Susanne Heinrich - Abel WKO 187 Piece for Solo Viola da Gamba - Adagio
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 19, 2011, 07:21:55 PM
Tony - if you have that entire back cover of the LP scanned into a large image (not sure the size but likely large), I can PM you my Yahoo e-mail address and you can send it to me (and/or Gurn) - I'm sure that I could produce an acceptable 'smaller' format or a text file that could be uploaded for those interested (including myself) - I'm about to do a MP3 download of that CD - thanks!  Dave  :)

Great  -- I'll scan it tomorrow. -- T.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 19, 2011, 07:35:54 PM
Tony - if you have that entire back cover of the LP scanned into a large image (not sure the size but likely large), I can PM you my Yahoo e-mail address and you can send it to me (and/or Gurn) - I'm sure that I could produce an acceptable 'smaller' format or a text file that could be uploaded for those interested (including myself) - I'm about to do a MP3 download of that CD - thanks!  Dave  :)

Well, in this thread Tony posted an album (LP vs. CD?) below left of Haydn works played on a kind of string-like 'hurdy-gurdy' of Haydn's time (couple of added pics below) - well I had one other CD featuring this instrument and was curious; however, a CD was just not available (probably OOP) - but tonight I downloaded the MP3 recording from Amazon (about $9) - transferred to my iPod and then burned to a CD-R - just takes minutes once you've done the process a few times - technology can be wonderful (or a PITA!) -  ;)

Well, at the moment, I'm listening to the CD-R on my den stereo system and the experience is wonderful - really! This instrument is called a lira organizzata - BOY, I'd love to attend a live performance just to see how it is played; but the sound of the instrument is unique and blends quite well w/ the strings - just a superb acquisition for little cost - recommended to Haydn fans & to the music composed for instruments now considered obsolete -  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tF3CKu%2BIL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)  (http://matthias.loibner.net/lira/paris050202.jpg)  (http://matthias.loibner.net/lira/lira.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 20, 2011, 10:24:25 AM
Haydn - Lira Concerti LP album notes - thanks to Tony - he sent me 2 TIFF files, which were large but allowed me to zoom and then using the 'snipping tool' of VISTA do 5 'screen captures' - I've uploaded then to my photo sharing site and the links are provided below - the files were of sufficient size that the 500 KB limit on attachments would have necessitated 3 posts; the order of reading these will be explained below w/ each link.  NOTE - that the LP contains 3 of the 5 concerti; all are present on the MP3 download discussed previously and also in the BIG Haydn box (probably w/o notes?).

LiraNotes -1 (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLira1/1193056680_BesW2-O.jpg) - start here!

LiraNotes - 2 (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLira2/1193056698_YK5h6-O.jpg) - continues from above.

LiraNotes - 3 (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLira3/1193056709_yno2D-XL.jpg) - title & performers.

LiraNotes - 4 (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLira4/1193056719_4AbcS-O.jpg) - start w/ left column; then go to notes #5.

LiraNotes - 5 (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnLira5/1193056738_VKHnX-O.jpg) - need to go between 4 & 5.

Let me know if these come up for you - P.S. there is a little overlap in the # 4/5 notes - enjoy - Dave  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 20, 2011, 11:10:24 AM
Thanks for these, Tony & Dave. Dave, that post of mine a couple op from here, if you click on it will get big enough to read. That is the sum total of the liner notes, and as you see, it even says that the version on there is NOT the lira version! :o  ::)  So this is good!

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Costantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 25 #1 Sonata in C 1st mvmt - Allegro di molto
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 20, 2011, 11:19:14 AM
Nice job, Dave. Thanks for doing that. Those turnabout VOX recordings sure aimed at giving you your money's worth, both in background information and in total music. At the same time I got the Haydn Lira recording, I got Haydn - Four Flute Quartets, Op. 5 (total play time: 57 mins.) and Soler - 6 Concerti for 2 Keyboard Instruments (total play time: 65 mins). That's a lot of music for single album vinyl issues!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 20, 2011, 02:54:10 PM
Is the instrument that Ruf uses an authentic lira organizzati, or a small organ?  I was expecting to hear a sound from strings as well as pipes.

It is a lira organizzata. The string(s) are played sympathetically, I believe from that turning wheel, so the sound isn't readily recognizable as strings in any way that I am familiar with. I can personally only hear it from time to time. Since you have a couple of fiddles, 2 violas, and cello and a viola d'gamba all in there as well as a pair of horns, it is difficult, at least for me, to pick out and identify each individual sound... :-\   I'll get better though. :)

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Costantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 25 #2 Sonata in G 1st mvmt - Allegro con brio
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 20, 2011, 03:44:41 PM
Is the instrument that Ruf uses an authentic lira organizzati, or a small organ?  I was expecting to hear a sound from strings as well as pipes.

Hi Leon - I'm not sure that 'authentic' is applicable for the variety of this type of instrument and the variations that existed in the late 18th century when these works were composed.  Take a look a this Brief Explanation (http://www.weichselbaumer.cc/english/lira_text.html) of the instrument that might 'fit' the ones used in this recording; from my understanding these are not original but re-built instruments based on extant examples in museums.

The 'hurdy-gurdy' was based on a bowing wheel that would apply pressure to the strings depending on the key(s) depressed - like an automatic violin player w/ keys for the left hand; the addition of wind pipes further made the instrument more complex - I suspect that the modern reproductions of these instruments were a combination of these two mechanisms as described in the link?

However, without more specifics about this recording and the instruments used or being actually present at the recordings, I have difficulty in really answering your question - i.e. I'm w/ Gurn - the pipes are easily appreciated in this recording but the strings likely just blend in w/ the other instruments (BUT, Haydn likely would have easily known this and accomplished his mission successfully).

But, the bottom line for you after downloading this recording from Amazon - do you like it?  Dave  ;D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 21, 2011, 12:53:14 PM
I have more information on the pedal harpsichord discussed in detail earlier in this thread. I had a nagging feeling I overlooked something during my last visit to the Goodwill store, so I went back this morning and found:

the forgotten
PEDAL HARPSICHORD
only recording of the Bach instrument
 Bruce Prince-Joseph
Cook laboratories - 11312

This is a 1953 recording coupled with A Baedeker for Concert Choir by the Hufstader Singers on the "B" side. Unfortunately, I can't find an illustration of the cover and the white reverse print on orangey-brown won't scan well.

It's not a very good recording. Although the vinyl is pristine, the recording quality leaves much to be desired and the clunking of the harpsichord pedals can be quite distracting. Still, an interesting listening experience. I wonder if the claim of "only recording of the Bach instrument" still holds after 58 years.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 21, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
The pedal harpsichord photo is inscribed "the only Pedal Harpsichord in the Western Hemisphere".
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on February 21, 2011, 02:11:49 PM
My apologies if this has been posted before.



Mozart am Stein vis-a-vis

I'll not attempt to describe the instrument in such august company, only to say that it's a combination harpsichord and fortepiano. A selection of Mozart's music for 4 hands gets some rousing interpretations by two of my favorite musicians - Andreas Staier and Christine Schornsheim.

Here's a sample:
http://www.youtube.com/v/HuCRTiJoD8Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 10, 2011, 09:11:23 AM
Thanks Guys for the additional posts - amazing statement about the pedal harpsichord from the old LP - I probably now own at least a half dozen recordings w/ that instrument (modern reproductions) - a comeback!  :D

Keyed Trumpet - Haydn & Hummel 'Trumpet Concertos' - my only recording of works played on this 'short-lived' transitional trumpet that flourished briefly in the late 18th & early 19th centuries until replaced by the 'valved trumpet.'  The Viennese court trumpeter, Anton Weidinger, is considered the impetus (possibly inventor?) behind development of the keyed trumpet which permitted playing the chromatic scale over several octaves (according to the liner notes).

In 1796, Haydn wrote his Trumpet Concerto for Weidinger; and around 1803, Hummel composed his concerto for the same performer.  By 1815, Weidinger was at the height of his success and his instrument was apparently quite popular w/ numerous other works composed and concerts given highlighting the trumpet.  During the 1820s (and by the early 1840s), the keyed trumpet had been replaced by the valved instrument.

Concerning the recording, Reinhold Friedrich is just excellent and the trumpet is played beautifully w/ a sound that hearkens back to the days of the 'valveless' instrument - not sure 'how many' other recordings exist w/ this older instrument, but I'll do some searching.  A little more information can be found in this Wiki Article HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyed_trumpet) -  :D

P.S. Picture of an older Friedrich w/ another style trumpet, added below, right -  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/HaydnHummelFriedrich/1211879818_Z9WTh-O.jpg)  (http://www.reinhold-friedrich.de/typo3temp/pics/Reinhold_Friedrich01_442d18ebeb.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on March 11, 2011, 06:55:58 AM
Thanks Guys for the additional posts - amazing statement about the pedal harpsichord from the old LP - I probably now own at least a half dozen recordings w/ that instrument (modern reproductions) - a comeback!  :D

... maybe you are considering Watchorn's WTC like five recordings, Dave? If not, I would appreciate some additional recommendations. I just have that Watchorn's Bach and some disc by Isolde Ahlgrimm (also Bach).  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 11, 2011, 07:17:44 AM
... maybe you are considering Watchorn's WTC like five recordings, Dave? If not, I would appreciate some additional recommendations. I just have that Watchorn's Bach and some disc by Isolde Ahlgrimm (also Bach).  :)

Antoine - you're right, I was counting discs as recordings, but thought that I had several other pedal harpsichord recordings (may be another w/ Watchorn or Farr) - all I could find are many lute harpsichord CDs, so I guess that I was overly exciting about a comeback!  ;) :D

So, if you or others come up w/ some 'new' pedal harpsichord works, please post - the only other item that 'pops up' on Amazon USA using 'pedal harpsichord' (i.e. besides Watchorn) is the one below - Dave  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51cFcMpZO-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on March 11, 2011, 07:30:40 AM
Antoine - you're right, I was counting discs as recordings, but thought that I had several other pedal harpsichord recordings (may be another w/ Watchorn or Farr) - all I could find are many lute harpsichord CDs, so I guess that I was overly exciting about a comeback!  ;) :D

So, if you or others come up w/ some 'new' pedal harpsichord works, please post - the only item that 'pops up' on Amazon USA using 'pedal harpsichord' is the one below - Dave  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51cFcMpZO-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Yes, recordings on pedal-harpsichord, pedal-clavichord and pedal-piano are thin on the ground.

Anyway, this link provides information about some old recordings on pedal harpsichord (samples included): http://www.baroquecds.com/759Web.html

Additionally, considering your recent survey by the trio sonatas, this Power Biggs' disc played on pedal-harsichord is a classic:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418FiHzDYGL._SS350_.jpg)

Very cheap on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Trio-Sonatas-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B0000062DK

 :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Antoine Marchand on March 11, 2011, 07:36:42 AM
I forgot this excellent CD, recommended by Q some time ago:

(http://img2.wantitall.co.za/images/ShowImage.aspx?ImageId=Rechsteiner-Yves-Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Fantasia-Cromatica-sonates-amp-transcriptions%7C5160RUtL5fL.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 11, 2011, 07:58:25 AM
Yes, recordings on pedal-harpsichord, pedal-clavichord and pedal-piano are thin on the ground.

Anyway, this link provides information about some old recordings on pedal harpsichord (samples included): http://www.baroquecds.com/759Web.html

Additionally, considering your recent survey by the trio sonatas, this Power Biggs' disc played on pedal-harsichord is a classic:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418FiHzDYGL._SS350_.jpg)

Antoine - thanks for the recommendation above - just placed into my Amazon basket!  Dave  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on June 11, 2011, 05:16:30 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p0BcjAxaoMo/TVXNjVysuII/AAAAAAAAEZo/OoODyk4qGFo/s1600/ARS38011.jpg)

I don't know if this made it into this forum yet. I'm enjoying this recording.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on November 12, 2011, 06:54:57 AM
I dropped in on a wine tasting last night and there was a violin, viola da gamba, and lute trio playing. While the idea was commendable, it wasn't very well thought out. The acoustics in the beautiful old hall were so bad and the visitors so loud, you could barely hear the music even when standing next to the players. Clearly, venues in an earlier day had to have been much smaller and quieter.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 12, 2011, 07:56:16 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p0BcjAxaoMo/TVXNjVysuII/AAAAAAAAEZo/OoODyk4qGFo/s1600/ARS38011.jpg)

I don't know if this made it into this forum yet. I'm enjoying this recording.

Hi Milk - actually I downloaded that recording (not sure 'where' the recommendation came from?) and is now on iPod - listened to it the other day - need to play the recording on my den speakers just to pick out those pedal notes! Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 12, 2011, 08:01:21 AM
I dropped in on a wine tasting last night and there was a violin, viola da gamba, and lute trio playing. While the idea was commendable, it wasn't very well thought out. The acoustics in the beautiful old hall were so bad and the visitors so loud, you could barely hear the music even when standing next to the players. Clearly, venues in an earlier day had to have been much smaller and quieter.

Hey Tony - hope the wine was good, too! :)

That trio would certainly be a nice combination in a different atmosphere - sounds like a Sackbut Ensemble may have provided a greater impact!   ;D   Dave

(http://wiki-images.enotes.com/thumb/f/fd/Sackbutt.jpg/300px-Sackbutt.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on November 12, 2011, 08:28:07 AM
That trio would certainly be a nice combination in a different atmosphere - sounds like a Sackbut Ensemble may have provided a greater impact!   ;D   Dave

 :)  Absolutely.  And this would have been the perfect accompaniment --

(http://files.myopera.com/Zaphira/albums/758119/Dry%20Sack%20Spain.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on November 18, 2011, 06:32:19 AM
Hi Milk - actually I downloaded that recording (not sure 'where' the recommendation came from?) and is now on iPod - listened to it the other day - need to play the recording on my den speakers just to pick out those pedal notes! Dave :)

Seems like it's the only recording of its kind.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 05, 2012, 08:51:42 AM
Just obtain the recording below - Johann Quantz (1697-1773) Flute Sonatas w/ Mary Oleskiewicz on a period reproduction flute; the original was made by Quantz himself for his boss, Frederick the Great, and is now in the Dayton C. Miller Flute Collection in the Library of Congress - picture of the original instrument below and described of the website HERE (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=dcmflute&fileName=0900/0916/dcmflute0916browse.db&action=browse&title2=DCM+0916:+++Johann+Joachim+Quantz+/+Flute+in+C&displayType=3&recNum=0&itemLink=D?dcm:1:./temp/~ammem_QeYk::) as:  Johann Joachim Quantz / Flute in C - full view of Frederick the Great's flute with extra joints on each side.

Olesiewicz has an impressive curriculum vitae (her website HERE (http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/oleskiewicz_m/index.html)) - she received a Ph.D. in musicology from Duke University in 1998; her 700+ page dissertation is entitled: Quantz and the Flute at Dresden: His Instruments, His Repertory, and Their Significance for the Versuch and the Bach Circle, which can be ordered, for those interested!  At present, she is an Associate Professor of Music, University of Massachusetts in Boston - don't know if Karl visits this thread but would suspect that he knows her?  :)
 

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-ZKVHmfn/0/O/QuantzFluteSonatas.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-tDsbFRr/0/O/QuantzFlute2.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 05, 2012, 08:55:20 AM
Just obtain the recording below - Johann Quantz (1697-1773) Flute Sonatas w/ Mary Oleskiewicz on a period reproduction flute; the original was made by Quantz himself for his boss, Frederick the Great, and is now in the Dayton C. Miller Flute Collection in the Library of Congress - picture of the original instrument below and described of the website HERE (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=dcmflute&fileName=0900/0916/dcmflute0916browse.db&action=browse&title2=DCM+0916:+++Johann+Joachim+Quantz+/+Flute+in+C&displayType=3&recNum=0&itemLink=D?dcm:1:./temp/~ammem_QeYk::) as:  Johann Joachim Quantz / Flute in C - full view of Frederick the Great's flute with extra joints on each side.

Olesiewicz has an impressive curriculum vitae (her website HERE (http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/oleskiewicz_m/index.html)) - she received a Ph.D. in musicology from Duke University in 1998; her 700+ page dissertation is entitled: Quantz and the Flute at Dresden: His Instruments, His Repertory, and Their Significance for the Versuch and the Bach Circle, which can be ordered, for those interested!  At present, she is an Associate Professor of Music, University of Massachusetts in Boston - don't know if Karl visits this thread but would suspect that he knows her?  :)
 

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-ZKVHmfn/0/O/QuantzFluteSonatas.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-tDsbFRr/0/O/QuantzFlute2.jpg)

Added the recording to my wish list, Dave.  Reminds me of this adventure:

(http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2000/24/images/crystalflute.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 05, 2012, 09:24:04 AM
Added the recording to my wish list, Dave.  Reminds me of this adventure:

(http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2000/24/images/crystalflute.jpg)

Hi Bill - yes, that Quantz disc is special w/ the history of the flute (i.e. reproduction) used.

The Crystal Flute, another fascinating story - made a reference myself on the first page of this thread (and after looking back, the original posts were on the old forum, so has been a while) - wonder if anyone picked up this CD?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 05, 2012, 09:29:13 AM
On two side notes:

1. Have you noticed that many of the discs that you have posted are "import" discs.  Just something I noticed.

2. Did you ever purchase Vols. 1 and 3 of the Attilio ariosti efforts?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 05, 2012, 10:32:03 AM
On two side notes:

1. Have you noticed that many of the discs that you have posted are "import" discs.  Just something I noticed.

2. Did you ever purchase Vols. 1 and 3 of the Attilio ariosti efforts?

In regards to the first question, undoubtedly!  I guess that for the music I like, an interest in historic performances, and a preference for 'modern' recordings (e.g. I have almost nothing pre-1960-70), I have gravitated more to the European labels; some of my favorites being Hyperion, CPO, MDG, Accent, Tactus, and certainly others.  I've purchased a LOT of discs through BRO and will often search those labels specifically, so the desire for a bargain plays a role - e.g. right now there are 2 Accent discs, each $8, w/ the group Il Gardellino - check HERE (http://broinc.com/search.php?row=0&text=&filter=all&Label=ACCENT&genre=&RPP=25&pprice=&submit=Search), if interested; bought both myself there.

Concerning Attilio Ariosti, I still just have the Vol. 2 disc shown below - I was aware of the others but the BIS prices on the Amazon MP are a little steep for me once that $3 S/H fee is added; need to check 'across the pond' - the composer kind of escape my attention after that initial posting probably a couple of years ago; however, I'd be curious - I do enjoy that one disc!  :)  Dave

Addendum: Bill, all 3 Ariosti volumes are available from MDT HERE (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/pages/search/searchresults.asp?sGeneralSearch=ariosti&sGeneralSearchSection=General&x=0&y=0&startfrom=1&sCatalogueNumber=&submitflag=true&sMSLSort=Filter2Date+DESC%2C+ProductView+DESC%2C+SaleView+DESC&bSortBy=DESC&serial=12020567059243966) w/ special offer at $12 each (shipping is not too bad if you put in an order for a half dozen or so items) - I was actually looking for the Buxtehude harpsichord box on Brilliant which is not going to be release on Amazon USA until the end of the month - available there now for just $13; so I may just go ahead and get those other 2 volumes - great review of all three volumes on MusicWeb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/June09/Ariosti_biscd_v13.htm) - thanks for the reminder!  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61%2BMh965pdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 05, 2012, 10:57:04 AM
Thanks, Dave.  I have started to limit myself to one cd per week purchase (at least for a while).  I have enough music that I rarely get to as it is, so I am going to be a bit more picky.  However, I like the looks of many on this thread, so possibly I will pick these up at a gradual rate unless a bargain hits.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 15, 2012, 08:02:19 PM
A new arrival for me in the mail today!  Appropriate for this thread on 'older' musical instruments:

Vivaldi, Antonio (1678-1741) - Cello Sonatas w/ the great Anner Bylsma on a Baroque cello (Matteo Goffriller, 1693); the other performers are on violin, cello, harpsichord/organ, and archlute (Ivano Zanenghi); the latter is the 'old' instrument of interest (scanned in a second pic from the booklet to show this unusual multi-string instrument, far left - not much in the notes -  :-\).

Fabulous recording and this music does sound 'old' (and wonderful) on these deep melodious instruments - so, any comments from 'experts' out there on Baroque cellos (shapes, types of strings, bows, & playing techniques) & on this interesting looking lute variant?  Thanks all -  :)


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/493580981_HeNNv-M.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/493581099_r6874-M.jpg)


As you may have seen in the purchase thread Dave, my wife gave me this disc on Valentines Day.  I was surprised by the two cellos playing together.  Does this happen very often?  However, more to the thread:  What caught my eye was also the Archlute.  Cool instrument there.  Does it have a double fret boad?  Either way, it sounds wonderful and seems too to come from the 17 century via Germany.  (Was this the original instrument of choice in Vivaldi's score?....I have not scoured the nootes yet.)  A very warm sounding cd with those cellos taking the lead, but that lute comes forward ever now and then to give us that "Vivaldi sound". :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 16, 2012, 08:05:30 AM

As you may have seen in the purchase thread Dave, my wife gave me this disc on Valentines Day.  I was surprised by the two cellos playing together.  Does this happen very often?  However, more to the thread:  What caught my eye was also the Archlute.  Cool instrument there.  Does it have a double fret boad?  Either way, it sounds wonderful and seems too to come from the 17 century via Germany.  (Was this the original instrument of choice in Vivaldi's score?....I have not scoured the nootes yet.)  A very warm sounding cd with those cellos taking the lead, but that lute comes forward ever now and then to give us that "Vivaldi sound". :D

Hi Bill - well, as you know in 'chamber works', Boccherini was the champ in using 2 cellos in his quintets; Vivaldi of course predominately used the violin(s); I was just reviewing the latter's RV catalog HERE (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/vivaldi/viva.html#Oeuvre); of the nearly 600 compositions listed, the first 80+ are 'sonatas' - w/i that group only the ones below include the cello in their title - the 6 works included on the Bylsma disc are w/i that listing; now whether Vivaldi indicated the use of 2 cellos in these works, I'm not sure, but obviously this was a very minimal part of his output.

RV 38   Sonate, en ré mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue
RV 39   Sonate, en mi bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue      
RV 40   Sonate, en mi mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 41   Sonate, en fa majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 42   Sonate, en sol mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 43   Sonate, en la mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 44   Sonate, en la mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 45   Sonate, en si bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 46   Sonate, en si bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 47   Sonate, en si bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue


Concerning the archlute, if you look at the larger picture in the booklet (i.e. the 2nd one that I posted but in a smaller version), the instrument is 'typical' of many of these early & transitional string ones of the times.  There are two pegboards, one is fretted and the other is not; there appears to be about a dozen strings (which are doubled looking at the number of pegs present); the upper set of strings are not fretted and would provide the lower base notes.  The archlute used in this recording was made by Stephen Murphy after a mid-17th century German instrument - Murphy's website is HERE (http://www.murphylutes.com/recent-instruments) if you want to see a variety of beautiful instruments of many types; I could not find much in the booklet about the archlute used, so my comments are based on just looking at the picture mentioned.  Hope this helps - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 16, 2012, 09:03:31 AM
Just a quick second to stick my nose in, Dave & Bill; in that listing, all the sonatas marked 'Cello & BC' can very easily be sonatas for 2 cellos. You have a big handful of instruments to choose from on the BC part, cello being 1 of them (very commonly).  :)

Back to work....

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2012, 08:29:32 PM
Just obtain the recording below - Johann Quantz (1697-1773) Flute Sonatas w/ Mary Oleskiewicz on a period reproduction flute; the original was made by Quantz himself for his boss, Frederick the Great, and is now in the Dayton C. Miller Flute Collection in the Library of Congress - picture of the original instrument below and described of the website HERE (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=dcmflute&fileName=0900/0916/dcmflute0916browse.db&action=browse&title2=DCM+0916:+++Johann+Joachim+Quantz+/+Flute+in+C&displayType=3&recNum=0&itemLink=D?dcm:1:./temp/~ammem_QeYk::) as:  Johann Joachim Quantz / Flute in C - full view of Frederick the Great's flute with extra joints on each side.

Olesiewicz has an impressive curriculum vitae (her website HERE (http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/oleskiewicz_m/index.html)) - she received a Ph.D. in musicology from Duke University in 1998; her 700+ page dissertation is entitled: Quantz and the Flute at Dresden: His Instruments, His Repertory, and Their Significance for the Versuch and the Bach Circle, which can be ordered, for those interested!  At present, she is an Associate Professor of Music, University of Massachusetts in Boston - don't know if Karl visits this thread but would suspect that he knows her?  :)
 

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-ZKVHmfn/0/O/QuantzFluteSonatas.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-tDsbFRr/0/O/QuantzFlute2.jpg)

Just ordered.  Enjoyed the samples.  My copy looks a bit different, but has to be the same recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZwTxfZRIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

It may turn out that down the road it would be nice to follow this one up with:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BnvZ8CgmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2012, 07:00:05 AM
Just ordered.  Enjoyed the samples.  My copy looks a bit different, but has to be the same recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZwTxfZRIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BnvZ8CgmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Hey Bill - hope that my previous post on the Vivaldi & the archlute were helpful?

Concerning the Quantz flute works, the guy wrote SO MUCH for that instrument that recordings are confusing, i.e. the CD that you ordered are some 'Flute Quartets' (in fact, on my wish list) - I have some 'Flute Sonatas', so two different discs; now, the Naxos disc you picture above are also 'Flute Sonatas' by the same performers, but I just compared the track listings and the opus numbers are completely different!  I really like her on the period reproduction - thus, will add that to my Quantz list!

BTW - received and am now listening to Vol. I & III of the Attilio Ariosti Stockholm Sonatas - as wonderful as that middle disc I discussed a while back; so if you like instruments, such as the viola d'amore, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar, & viola da gamba, then all 3 of these recordings are highly recommended!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 18, 2012, 12:55:51 PM
Hey Bill - hope that my previous post on the Vivaldi & the archlute were helpful?

Concerning the Quantz flute works, the guy wrote SO MUCH for that instrument that recordings are confusing, i.e. the CD that you ordered are some 'Flute Quartets' (in fact, on my wish list) - I have some 'Flute Sonatas', so two different discs; now, the Naxos disc you picture above are also 'Flute Sonatas' by the same performers, but I just compared the track listings and the opus numbers are completely different!  I really like her on the period reproduction - thus, will add that to my Quantz list!

BTW - received and am now listening to Vol. I & III of the Attilio Ariosti Stockholm Sonatas - as wonderful as that middle disc I discussed a while back; so if you like instruments, such as the viola d'amore, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar, & viola da gamba, then all 3 of these recordings are highly recommended!  Dave :)

Good to know they are different, Dave.  Based on the samples, I, like yourself, can easily see owning all three at some point.  Flute in small ensembles has become a favorite of mine over the last few years and these seem like ones to have on the shelf.  I was just going to ask about the Attilio Ariosti discs and if they arrived yet.  Great to hear that they hold par with Vol. 2.  I will probably snag them next month from MDT if they are still on sale.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
Good to know they are different, Dave.  Based on the samples, I, like yourself, can easily see owning all three at some point.  Flute in small ensembles has become a favorite of mine over the last few years and these seem like ones to have on the shelf.  I was just going to ask about the Attilio Ariosti discs and if they arrived yet.  Great to hear that they hold par with Vol. 2.  I will probably snag them next month from MDT if they are still on sale.

Bill - listened to the Ariosti 'new' discs this morning - pretty much the same excellence of my Vol. 2 - a nice set of works; all are quite similar, so if you like one the others will be just as enjoyable!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 19, 2012, 09:08:00 PM
Well, Bill and I seem to be carrying the conversation on the Attilio Ariosti Stockholm Sonatas - I've now acquired all 3 CDs of these works which are just wonderful performances, especially regarding the instruments used - a more detailed post HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2376.msg602410.html#msg602410) (post #105), which I left recently!

But in this thread, just wanted to show and expand on the Viola d'Amore instruments used by Thomas Georgi in these performances; BOY, I love this early 18th century adventure into the evolution of these instruments! 

Below is an image from the booklet of the first volume; these seem to be original instruments (not sure of the restorations?):

Top:  Thomas Eberle, Naples 1772, seven playing strings, seven sympathetic strings.
Middle: Labelled Mathias Thir, Vienna 1721, six playing strings.
Bottom: Thomas Eberle, Naples 1783, six playing strings, six sympathetic strings.

You know, our modern period of FIX string instruments seems rather uninteresting compared to this past era of string evolution - just a thought - : )

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Gvtvd6H/0/O/ArisotiViolas.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 20, 2012, 05:34:31 AM
Below is an image from the booklet of the first volume; these seem to be original instruments (not sure of the restorations?):

Beautiful instruments! The middle one appears to have a more modern tailpiece, and of course the fine-tuners have been added. The bridges all seem new, and the tailpiece guts have all probably been replaced. Other than that, I'm sure they're as they were back in the 18th century.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on February 20, 2012, 06:35:20 AM
I do not ever remember seeing carved heads like those....are they common, or was it a fad that had its time?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 20, 2012, 07:21:32 AM
I do not ever remember seeing carved heads like those....are they common, or was it a fad that had its time?

Carved heads on these instruments seemed fairly common in those days but not sure how often and on which instruments in the string family the heads were used.  Many of the pictures of barytons that I've seen had carved heads - just a few shown below; the more detailed picture is interesting because the back sympathetic strings are seen which could be plucked w/ the player's left thumb - :)

(http://www.orpheon.org/oldsite/Fotos/Fotos-Instr/baryton-hdhalf3.TIFb.jpg)  (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llks7acd2Y1qc9z47o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 20, 2012, 09:57:21 AM
I do not ever remember seeing carved heads like those....are they common, or was it a fad that had its time?

Yes, common then and they occasionally pop up now. A recent student of mine had a violin with a beautiful lion's head scroll that he bought new. This viola is currently listed on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-CARVED-VIOLA-W-CARVED-ANGEL-HEAD-PURFLING-Bobelock-Adj-case-/180824172388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a19f5e764 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-CARVED-VIOLA-W-CARVED-ANGEL-HEAD-PURFLING-Bobelock-Adj-case-/180824172388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a19f5e764)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 20, 2012, 10:20:26 AM
The viola above and these necks with carved scrolls sold to luthiers are all produced in China where more and more quality instruments are being made. When you see instruments now advertised as "German engineered", etc. , chances are good they come from a factory in China where a European company has sent personnel to oversee the production.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 20, 2012, 03:03:50 PM
Hi Tony - thanks for your recent posts and insights into these old wood instruments - I really enjoyed your earlier comments at the beginning of this thread regarding repairing/restoring string instruments - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 20, 2012, 03:09:35 PM
Hi Tony - thanks for your recent posts and insights into these old wood instruments - I really enjoyed your earlier comments at the beginning of this thread regarding repairing/restoring string instruments - Dave :)

Thanks, Dave! This is a thread I keep tabs on, although I'm not always able to chime in. It's a fascinating subject.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 24, 2012, 05:20:36 AM
On the same theme, I purchased this album yesterday with carved scrolls featured on the cover. I'm not quite sure how the images relate to Shostakovich because even the pegs on the instruments are Baroque style. Perhaps they're meant to represent the Janacek Quartet players, hovering above the piano keyboard that completes the quintet. At any rate, it's a good example of interesting low-budget artwork.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on February 26, 2012, 03:43:44 PM
I just finished listening to this recording -- Jean-Philippe Rameau Pièces de Clavecin en Concerts performed by The Boston Museum Trio. My copy is a vinyl LP I picked up some time ago containing the 5 suites (Trio Sonatas?) on the local Cambridge, MA "Titanic Records" label. There is a CD available from "Centaur Records" at Arkiv with a couple of added tracks that appears to be the same recording.

When I removed the record from the cover, I discovered a nice surprise. The album sleeve was actually pages from a 1979 Boston Globe Magazine with a nice article about the performers.

The instruments used are from Boston's Museum of Fine Arts Instruments Collection: A 1680 Johannes Couchet harpsichord, 1778 Augustin Chappuy violin, and a 1708 Claude Pierray bass, seven-stringed Viola da gamba.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 27, 2012, 09:10:33 AM
I just finished listening to this recording -- Jean-Philippe Rameau Pièces de Clavecin en Concerts performed by The Boston Museum Trio. .......................

The instruments used are from Boston's Museum of Fine Arts Instruments Collection: A 1680 Johannes Couchet harpsichord, 1778 Augustin Chappuy violin, and a 1708 Claude Pierray bass, seven-stringed Viola da gamba.

Hi Tony - well, those instruments peaked my interest; 2 of my favorite museums in the USA are the MFA in Boston & the Met in NYC - just love to visit their 'Musical Instrument' collections (the Library of Congress in D.C. also has a great collection!),  So I went to the MFA website; their instrument collection can be viewed and photos enlarged - found the 3 instruments you mention above & have attached some pics!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 04, 2012, 09:31:55 AM
Zuccari, Francesco (1694-1788) - Cello Sonatas researched and performed by Mvsica Perdvta (google the name for their website which is in Italian - I just used page translation).  A variety of historic instruments used, mostly copies but some restored.

The instruments include Baroque Cello after Stradivarius, Baroque five-string cello (pic below from their website), G-Violin, Baroque Double Bass, Organ, Flemish Harpsichord after Ruckers, & Theorbo - outstanding recording for sound & performance - these works are probably from the mid-18th century w/ the instruments used harking back to the Baroque - highly recommended - :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ckJMyEFqL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)  (http://www.musicaperduta.com/siti/musicaperduta/risorse/immagini/DSC_7900.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on March 04, 2012, 07:17:43 PM
(http://www.musicaperduta.com/siti/musicaperduta/risorse/immagini/DSC_7900.jpg)

This is a beautiful instrument. I hope the picture was photo-shopped. I shudder to think what those stones could do to the varnish!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 07, 2012, 10:00:53 AM
Baroque Bassoon & Sergio Azzolini - just obtained the Graupner recording of bassoon concertos played by one of the best Baroque bassoonists (or fagottist) around!  Azzolini is using a copy of a bassoon of the period made by Peter de Koningh in 2007 after an original by J.H. Eichentopf, ca. 1720; the added pic is another performer (the younger guy) playing a Baroque copy made by the same individual  also after one by Eichentopf, ca. 1732 - assume Sergio's is similar!

If you are into late Baroque wind music and love the period bassoon, then this is a MUST recommendation; also, if you like Vivaldi's bassoon works and Azzolini, then the added CDs at the bottom are another strong consideration - :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-VnNxQzM/0/O/GraupnerBassoon.jpg)  (http://www.publicpolicy.co.nz/Misc%20pages/Bassoons%20are%20fun_files/image004.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-QTdBJ8M/0/S/VivaldiBassoonAzzolini-S.jpg)  (http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/014/209/0001420946_350.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on May 26, 2012, 02:36:22 AM
I guess you can't get any older than these!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18196349# (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18196349#)

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on August 11, 2012, 05:37:15 AM
Well, you may find this story interesting to listen to.  (Looks as if this is fairly close to you, JW.)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2012/08/05/157991138/gathering-of-the-viols-the-50th-annual-viola-da-gamba-conclave

(http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/08/03/6_sq.jpg?t=1344048497&s=1)

On the link, if you scroll down a bit, there is a 4 pic slide show of other carved heads!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on August 11, 2012, 04:29:52 PM
Recently discovered this instrument/recording...

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on August 15, 2012, 03:01:45 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GZ%2BAstzcL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I wonder if a reference to this recording has made it onto this thread yet. 
This is my first purchase of a recording featuring this instrument:
(http://www.historicbrass.org/Portals/0/Images/Interviews%202006/Dongois.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 15, 2012, 04:39:52 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GZ%2BAstzcL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)  (http://www.historicbrass.org/Portals/0/Images/Interviews%202006/Dongois.jpg)

Hi Milk - not sure that we have a post here dedicated to the cornetto ('little horn'), a popular Renaissance instrument; now I have a LOT of music from this era and the cornetto (or a family of different sizes) is often featured, so if you like then sound the best to explore that period of music or look into modern HIP performances, such as the one you now own.

Also, checkout the Cornetto Website (http://www.cornetto.org.uk/cornetto.html) for more information; in addition, there are plenty of pictures of the instrument (in numerous forms & sizes) on the web - one shown below.  Thanks for bringing up this topic - Dave :)


(http://www.jeremywest.co.uk/cmi/images/resinsmain.JPG)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on August 15, 2012, 05:18:07 AM
Thanks SonicMan! I'll see how this one grows on me. I liked the samples so I went for it. I don't have much
Renaissance music as of yet except for William Byrd and other virginalists. Thanks!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Que on September 14, 2012, 11:05:46 AM
Well, in this thread Tony posted an album (LP vs. CD?) below left of Haydn works played on a kind of string-like 'hurdy-gurdy' of Haydn's time (couple of added pics below) - well I had one other CD featuring this instrument and was curious; however, a CD was just not available (probably OOP) - but tonight I downloaded the MP3 recording from Amazon (about $9) - transferred to my iPod and then burned to a CD-R - just takes minutes once you've done the process a few times - technology can be wonderful (or a PITA!) -  ;)

Well, at the moment, I'm listening to the CD-R on my den stereo system and the experience is wonderful - really! This instrument is called a lira organizzata - BOY, I'd love to attend a live performance just to see how it is played; but the sound of the instrument is unique and blends quite well w/ the strings - just a superb acquisition for little cost - recommended to Haydn fans & to the music composed for instruments now considered obsolete -  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tF3CKu%2BIL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)  (http://matthias.loibner.net/lira/paris050202.jpg)  (http://matthias.loibner.net/lira/lira.jpg)


Fort hose interested in the lira arganizzata - this issue is coming up soon:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0810473010020.jpg)

Haydn: Notturni H2 nr. 25 & 26;Konzert G-Dur H7h nr. 3 für 2 Lira organizzate
Mozart: Konzert F-Dur für 2 Lira organizzate & Orchester
Oritano: Sinfonia nr. 3 D-Dur
Pleyel: Notturno C-Dur


Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on September 14, 2012, 11:16:31 AM

Fort hose interested in the lira arganizzata - this issue is coming up soon:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0810473010020.jpg)

Haydn: Notturni H2 nr. 25 & 26;Konzert G-Dur H7h nr. 3 für 2 Lira organizzate
Mozart: Konzert F-Dur für 2 Lira organizzate & Orchester
Oritano: Sinfonia nr. 3 D-Dur
Pleyel: Notturno C-Dur


Q

Que,
I am at work, and thus bereft of reference; are those 2 Haydn works different than the ones on 'Delirium'?  If so, this will be a must have. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Que on September 14, 2012, 12:46:58 PM
Que,
I am at work, and thus bereft of reference; are those 2 Haydn works different than the ones on 'Delirium'?  If so, this will be a must have. :)

8)

This is what is on the Delirium disc:

Concerto No. 1 for 2 lire organizzate in C major, H. 7h/1
Divertimento a 8, for baryton, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass & 2 horns in A minor/A major, H. 10/3
Notturno for 2 lire organizzate, 2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 violas & bass in G major, H. 2/27
Divertimento a 8, for baryton, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass & 2 horns in G major, H. 10/12
Notturno for 2 lire organizzate, 2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 violas & bass in C major, H. 2/32


So I guess there is no doubling! 8)

Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on September 14, 2012, 02:04:04 PM
This is what is on the Delerium disc:

Concerto No. 1 for 2 lire organizzate in C major, H. 7h/1
Divertimento a 8, for baryton, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass & 2 horns in A minor/A major, H. 10/3
Notturno for 2 lire organizzate, 2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 violas & bass in G major, H. 2/27
Divertimento a 8, for baryton, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass & 2 horns in G major, H. 10/12
Notturno for 2 lire organizzate, 2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 violas & bass in C major, H. 2/32


So I guess there is no doubling! 8)

Q

Wunderbar! That's a must have then. Especially since Concerto #3 in G is the original basis for the Military Symphony #100. It's all good. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on October 07, 2012, 08:25:01 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513EX843NSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This one on anyone's shelf?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on October 07, 2012, 02:15:02 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513EX843NSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This one on anyone's shelf?

Hi Bill - check my OP for this thread (back in the spring of 2009) - started this whole discussion off after acquiring that CD - small world!  :) Dave
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on October 07, 2012, 02:26:32 PM
I almost scrolled through the thread, Dave, but did not have time when I found this disc so just posted.  I will take a look. :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 15, 2012, 12:13:52 PM
At the bottom is quoted a post that I just left in the listening thread which prompted a return here after reading about the harpsichords (both reproductions) used on these 2 recordings (Soly has 7 volumes out @ the moment of Graupner's keyboard works!).  Both instruments were built by Hubbard & Broekman (http://www.hubharp.com/) (1998 & 2002) and are described as 'small' (V.1) & 'large' (V.2) Hamburg-style double manual harpsichords after the designs & practices of H.A. Hass, ca. 1730s.

Details of these fabulous instruments more fully described  on the link above; prices are $30,000 & $34,000, respectively for those interested -  ;D  BTW, this company also sells kits - did not check the cost, but I'm sure a little more challenging than the dulcimer kits I put together for Susan years ago!  Pictures of both instruments immediately below - enjoy.  Dave

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-HD6sXqX/0/O/HubbardSmall1.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-DGZcJg6/0/O/HubbardLarge1.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-XnbsWc7/0/O/HubbardSmall2.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-4M8Nrxh/0/O/HubbardLarge2.jpg)

Quote
Graupner, Christoph (1683-1760) - Harpsichord Works w/ Genevieve Soly on two different harpsichords made by Hubbard & Broekman - Hamburg style double-manual instruments after the designs & practices of H.A. Hass, ca. 1730s. :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-9KcJcdq/0/O/GraupnerSolyV1.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-GjTjxqF/0/O/GraupnerSolyV2.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Brian on December 09, 2012, 09:53:33 AM
You probably don't track new releases from the Grand Piano label looking for HIP stuff, since its name is Grand Piano. But their two-CD set of Daniel Turk's sonatas -



- utilizes five (!) different instruments from about 1780-1820, including spinet, harpsichord, clavichord, fortepiano, and tangent piano. It's a show-off album for the University of South Dakota's rather impressive historical instrument collection - the harpsichord is a special rarity as it was built in 1798.

Daniel Turk himself was a piano teacher and pedagogue; his sonatas are being prepared for a new performing edition by the pianist Michael Tsalka.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on December 10, 2012, 02:29:52 AM
You probably don't track new releases from the Grand Piano label looking for HIP stuff, since its name is Grand Piano. But their two-CD set of Daniel Turk's sonatas -



- utilizes five (!) different instruments from about 1780-1820, including spinet, harpsichord, clavichord, fortepiano, and tangent piano. It's a show-off album for the University of South Dakota's rather impressive historical instrument collection - the harpsichord is a special rarity as it was built in 1798.

Daniel Turk himself was a piano teacher and pedagogue; his sonatas are being prepared for a new performing edition by the pianist Michael Tsalka.
From the samples, the instruments sound great. Although, at the moment, someone is having a little fun with this composer's wikipedia page. A reviewer on amazon likens his best pieces to the works of C.P.E. Bach and early Haydn. Do you concur? I'm tempted to buy this just on the basis of the sound of these instruments. However, I seem to spend too much money on stuff I end up not listening to very much. 
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 14, 2012, 05:02:14 PM
Last night I had the pleasure of experiencing Bach’s Christmas Oratorio (Cantatas I, II, and VI) performed by the Handel and Haydn Society's Period Instrument Orchestra and Chorus at Boston's Jordan Hall. Rather than post about it elsewhere where the HIP subject can get contentious, I thought I'd mention my observations here since they deal mainly with the instruments of the Baroque era.

While I have many recordings using period instruments, this was my first time hearing and seeing them in action live, and the impact was colossal.

(http://www.handelandhaydn.org/sites/default/files/pageheaders/messiah.jpg?1340734271)

The difference in string sound as compared to modern instruments was striking. The shorter neck, higher arching, and gut strings of the violins produced a much mellower sound with a distinct timbre that isn't always evident in recordings. Sans chinrests, and with bow grips up the stick much like that of fiddlers, the players demonstrated an exuberant playing style that was fascinating to watch. All but one seemed able to limit their use of vibrato.

The single bass player used a German style bow with an enormous arch. Although his instrument had mechanical tuners, it was clear these were retrofitted to the scroll that had peg holes clearly visible.

(http://www.handelandhaydn.org/sites/all/themes/handel_and_haydn_society/images/hosted/natural-horn.jpg)

Most impressive to me were the trio of natural trumpet players. The passages they were able to produce
were incredible. Had I not been watching, I would have assumed they were using valved instruments.

(http://www.handelandhaydn.org/sites/all/themes/handel_and_haydn_society/images/oboes.jpg)

The sound of the open-holded Baroque flutes was what surprised me most. Played in the transverse manner as are modern flutes, the timbre was much more similar to that of a recorder. I found this intriguing as my belief was that the construction material would have far less effect on the sound than the manner used to put the air column into motion.

Here is a review of the concert printed today in the Boston Globe:

http://bostonclassicalreview.com/2012/12/handel-and-haydn-serves-up-a-joyous-performance-of-bachs-christmas-oratorio/ (http://bostonclassicalreview.com/2012/12/handel-and-haydn-serves-up-a-joyous-performance-of-bachs-christmas-oratorio/)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 15, 2012, 06:53:18 AM
Hi Tony - 'sounds' like a wonderful experience - love going to live concerts & watching the musicians play their instruments - thanks for sharing!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on December 18, 2012, 07:02:25 PM
How were they seated, Szykneij?  I've seen some 18th-century engravings that depict orchestras, and the orchestral seating arrangement is much different than for modern orchestras...
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 19, 2012, 01:48:12 PM
How were they seated, Szykneij?  I've seen some 18th-century engravings that depict orchestras, and the orchestral seating arrangement is much different than for modern orchestras...

This was a small ensemble, so its size probably had a lot to do with the seating arrangement.

The six violins, two (I think) violas and single cellist were in a semi-circle in front of the conductor. The bassist and organist were behind the cellist (stage left).

The woodwinds were in the second row in the center of the stage. The instrumentation of this group changed drastically between the three oratorios.

The three trumpets were behind the first violins (stage right), but were absent for the middle oratorio (II). The timpani player was to their left.

The chorus of 16 sat in two rows behind the orchestra on risers, with the soloists walking to the front of the stage when their turn came about.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on December 21, 2012, 10:20:54 AM
This was a small ensemble, so its size probably had a lot to do with the seating arrangement.

The six violins, two (I think) violas and single cellist were in a semi-circle in front of the conductor. The bassist and organist were behind the cellist (stage left).

The woodwinds were in the second row in the center of the stage. The instrumentation of this group changed drastically between the three oratorios.

The three trumpets were behind the first violins (stage right), but were absent for the middle oratorio (II). The timpani player was to their left.

The chorus of 16 sat in two rows behind the orchestra on risers, with the soloists walking to the front of the stage when their turn came about.
Pretty modern seating, in other words; probably because there was a visible conductor.  In actual 18th-century music, generally there was "divided leadership;" the keyboardist kept the rhythm going and the first violinist cued the ensemble--much like in modern jazz bands.  And Heaven help the orchestra if those two worthies didn't see eye to eye! :o

One of the images I've seen, supposedly of Bach leading a mixed group, seem to show the instrumentalists in a sort of random cluster.  Another one (of a Haydn opera, if I remember correctly) showed the continuo (harpsichord or fortepiano, one cello and one bass) clustered on audience left and the rest of the orchestra in two lines facing each other, winds in one line, strings in the other.  I have never heard of a HIP group that even attempts to duplicate such seating arrangements...
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 21, 2012, 10:37:11 AM
Pretty modern seating, in other words; probably because there was a visible conductor.  In actual 18th-century music, generally there was "divided leadership;" the keyboardist kept the rhythm going and the first violinist cued the ensemble--much like in modern jazz bands.  And Heaven help the orchestra if those two worthies didn't see eye to eye! :o

One of the images I've seen, supposedly of Bach leading a mixed group, seem to show the instrumentalists in a sort of random cluster.  Another one (of a Haydn opera, if I remember correctly) showed the continuo (harpsichord or fortepiano, one cello and one bass) clustered on audience left and the rest of the orchestra in two lines facing each other, winds in one line, strings in the other.  I have never heard of a HIP group that even attempts to duplicate such seating arrangements...

Yes, this group operated as a modern orchestra does. The first violinist led the tuning of the ensemble, but after that, the conductor was in charge.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: S.Blake on December 23, 2012, 01:12:13 AM
Nothing beats the original but then again the old musical instruments need a little improvement so I also like the new ones. :)

- Blake
Download Isochronic Tones (http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/isochronic-tones/id496874615)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 23, 2012, 03:53:51 PM
While out Christmas shopping today, I made a stop into the Goodwill store and came away with another nice vinyl find -- Music for Glass Harmonica by Bruno Hoffmann. Although the music has no Christmas themes, the sound of the instrument has a real Yuletide aura to it and is providing some pleasant listening after a somewhat stressful day.

Hoffmann is described in the liner notes as someone "who has done more than any man living to revive the fascinating eighteenth-century art of 'glass music'". I'm not sure of the issue date of this recording, but Hoffmann passed away in 1991.

The pieces are:
Mozart - Adagio and Rondo in C Minor, K.617
Mozart - Adagio in C, K.617a
J.F. Reichardt - Rondeau for Glass Harmonica, String Quartet and Double-Bass in B-flat Major
Karl Leopold Rollig - Quintet for Glass Harmonica and String Quartet in C minor
Johan Abraham Peter Schulz - Largo in C minor
Johann Gottlieb Naumann - Quartet for Glass Harmonica, Flute, Viola, and Cello in C Major


I particularly like the Reichardt and Naumann selections. The instrumentation seems to provide the best blend for the unusual timbre of the glass.

While these pieces were composed for the glass harmonica, it says Hoffmann plays a glass harp of his own design, so I'm not sure how authentic the performances are. The attacks of the notes seem to be a bit cleaner than what you get with the traditional instrument.

I tried to find out more about Hoffman's version, but the best I could do is this not-too-enlightening picture.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: OrchestralNut on December 23, 2012, 04:23:44 PM
Oh mercy me!  When, WHEN will thou createth a version of Mahler's Resurrection symphony, for small chamber ensemble, gut string instruments, plunky pianoforte and harpsichord continuo!

Please deliver before 11:59 PM, December 24th!  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on January 19, 2013, 07:20:16 AM
I don't recall this being posted before (apologies if it has). I saw a video of Kujiken playing a viola da spalla/shoulder-cello...

http://www.youtube.com/v/VFZ0HHMIMn0

...and found out there's a recording too.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 19, 2013, 07:30:35 AM
I don't recall this being posted before (apologies if it has). I saw a video of Kujiken playing a viola da spalla/shoulder-cello...

http://www.youtube.com/v/VFZ0HHMIMn0

...and found out there's a recording too.



Hi Stingo - check back on pages 3/4 of this thread HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11638.40.html) - plenty of discussion on Kujiken, the instrument, and that disc, but cannot recall if a youtube link was offered, so thanks!  I probably should pull out that recording this weekend for a listen -  :D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on January 19, 2013, 07:37:14 AM
Hi Stingo - check back on pages 3/4 of this thread HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11638.40.html) - plenty of discussion on Kujiken, the instrument, and that disc, but cannot recall if a youtube link was offered, so thanks!  I probably should pull out that recording this weekend for a listen -  :D

Thanks SonicMan. At 10+ pages I wasn't sure if I'd have time to sift through the thread. Thanks for info though - will check it out.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on January 20, 2013, 04:39:32 AM
I don't recall this being posted before (apologies if it has). I saw a video of Kujiken playing a viola da spalla/shoulder-cello...

http://www.youtube.com/v/VFZ0HHMIMn0

...and found out there's a recording too.


I put this up in the "youtube video library." Nice to see it here. I sldo posted a video of Bezuidenhout and Padmore doing Schumann lieder on the same TV show. That also displays the use of a period instrument - an Erard - to stay on topic.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 20, 2013, 07:08:44 AM
For those interested in the Bach Cello Suites on the 'Shoulder Cello', there is also a recording by Dmitry Badiarov (website HERE (http://dmitrybadiarov.com/Dmitry_Badiarov/Biography_Dmitry-Badiarov.html)) - in addition to performing these works, he also built his own instrument, and studied w/ Kuijken - :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-fCFvsWD/0/O/Bach_Cello_Badiarov.jpg)  (http://www.preludeklassiekemuziek.nl/actueel_0910/dmitry_badiarov_spalla.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on January 23, 2013, 02:38:46 PM
There is a video of Kujiken playing the shoulder-cello in Reply #79 on this thread.

When I went to research the Weiss/Lindberg recording on BIS' website, I saw this recording (http://bis.se/index.php?op=album&aID=BIS-2013) for nyckelharpa on the front page. The music seems to be a mix of the performer's (Emilia Amper) own compositions for the instrument as well as traditional music. Anyone familiar with the instrument or recording?

Nyckelharpa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyckelharpa) on wikipedia.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on January 29, 2013, 05:52:04 PM
Just wanted to say I've been enjoying the following disc this week. I am considering ordering the Naxos/Bloch disc mentioned toward the beginning of this thread as it seems that the composers are duplicated between the two discs (the Naxos is a superset of the Vox composers), but I am not sure if the works are duplicated.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 29, 2013, 06:36:41 PM
Just wanted to say I've been enjoying the following disc this week. I am considering ordering the Naxos/Bloch disc mentioned toward the beginning of this thread as it seems that the composers are duplicated between the two discs (the Naxos is a superset of the Vox composers), but I am not sure if the works are duplicated.

Hi again Stingo - we've had a little discussion on Ben's invention, i.e. the glass harmonica - check some previous posts HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11638.msg297880.html#msg297880) - thanks for the additional suggestions - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 11, 2013, 12:07:05 PM
Well, Susan's (a.k.a. Harpo here) chalumeau arrived a few days ago (pic below - bought the natural wood one) - purchased from California HERE (http://www.lazarsearlymusic.com/), but we had to wait a number of months, i.e. Lazar was out of the one we wanted until a 'new' shipment arrived from eastern Europe (believe made in the Czech Republic).

Fingering chart is like a soprano recorder, which Susan can play; so she'll have to learn how to make that single reed vibrate!  I gave it a quick try and made some 'peeps & squeaks' that sound more like a 20th century string quartet!  ;D

The reeds are standard Eb clarinet ones - she has some printed out instructions & links to several videos - :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-cWNpQR3/0/M/ChalumeauxBuy3-M.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-LTN8Tzk/0/M/ChalumeauxBuy2-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on March 11, 2013, 12:25:25 PM
Well, Susan's (a.k.a. Harpo here) chalumeau arrived a few days ago (pic below - bought the natural wood one) - purchased from California HERE (http://www.lazarsearlymusic.com/), but we had to wait a number of months, i.e. Lazar was out of the one we wanted until a 'new' shipment arrived from eastern Europe (believe made in the Czech Republic).

Fingering chart is like a soprano recorder, which Susan can play; so she'll have to learn how to make that single reed vibrate!  I gave it a quick try and made some 'peeps & squeaks' that sound more like a 20th century string quartet!  ;D

The reeds are standard Eb clarinet ones - she has some printed out instructions & links to several videos - :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-cWNpQR3/0/M/ChalumeauxBuy3-M.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-LTN8Tzk/0/M/ChalumeauxBuy2-M.jpg)

Holy crap, Dave, that's cool!  I have a couple of Vivaldi disks that use them, but they are in among a nest of other instruments and so it is challenging to pick them out. Hope Susan gets good quick; I want to hear something great by June.... :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 11, 2013, 02:12:13 PM
Holy crap, Dave, that's cool!  I have a couple of Vivaldi disks that use them, but they are in among a nest of other instruments and so it is challenging to pick them out. Hope Susan gets good quick; I want to hear something great by June.... :)

Hi Gurn - actually, a beautifully made instrument - took a couple pics this afternoon (below) which show the wood in better light - pic of the reed which is well secured w/ the screw latch; again just standard Eb clarinet reeds that she can obtain at one of our local music stores - also, came w/ a nice carrying case - NOW, I'm going to still try to blow the thing but getting that reed to vibrate is tricky - we may have to fly to Boston to have Karl give her lessons (if he knows the fingering, bet he could easily play the instrument) - Dave :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-7QBGQTB/0/O/ChalumeauOwn1.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-WvSkwgX/0/O/ChalumeauOwn2.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on March 14, 2013, 06:59:54 PM
...NOW, I'm going to still try to blow the thing but getting that reed to vibrate is tricky - we may have to fly to Boston to have Karl give her lessons (if he knows the fingering, bet he could easily play the instrument)
A few years ago I added "clarinet" to the instruments I can play, after oboe, flute and recorder.  But it took a while, even though I had learned the basics of all instruments in college. :o My quick suggestions: It'll take more air pressure than the recorder--quite a bit more pressure.  But be careful not to squeeze too hard with your lower jaw, and to pull in the corners of your mouth.  And be sure all those holes are completely covered!  If there's even the slightest leak around your fingers, the thing won't play.  Oh, and breathe deep, way down into your belly, as if you were a yogi master.  Tonal power and endurance come from your belly muscles. 8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
A few years ago I added "clarinet" to the instruments I can play, after oboe, flute and recorder.  But it took a while, even though I had learned the basics of all instruments in college. :o.................

Hi Jo..... - thanks for your comments - I'll past them on to Susan, but I agree (not as an expert or performer) that it is much easier to get notes out of her recorders - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2013, 01:28:32 PM
A few years ago I added "clarinet" to the instruments I can play, after oboe, flute and recorder.  But it took a while, even though I had learned the basics of all instruments in college. :o...........

Hi Jo..... - thanks for your comments - I'll past them on to Susan, but I agree (not as an expert or performer) that it is much easier to get notes out of her recorders - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 20, 2013, 01:15:24 PM
The heatwave here motivated my wife and I to spend the day at Boston's Museum of Fine Art for a long overdue visit. I got to chat a bit with Karl, visit the museum's excellent musical instrument collection, and take a ton of pictures.

My favorite:

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7942.jpg)

The "Small Violin" (violino piccolo) by Antonio Stradiveri. It's debated if this instrument was designed to be played by a child or for playing in a range higher than a normal sized violin.


(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7997.jpg)

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7999.jpg)

This "Square Piano" was built by Benjamin Crehore of Milton, Massachusetts around 1800 in the rectangular shape preferred for American homes of the time.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 20, 2013, 01:33:26 PM
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7835.jpg)

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7836.jpg)

These are Italian "chitarra battente" guitars with metal strings and ornate sound holes.




(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7814.jpg)

Larson Brothers Harp Guitar from around 1920.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 20, 2013, 01:45:54 PM
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7827.jpg)

Musical glasses by Francis Hopkinson Smith of Baltimore from around 1823.


(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7823.jpg)

1823 double bass from Deerfield, New Hampshire and French tenor trombone from around 1830 with the dragon's head design popular with French military bands.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 20, 2013, 02:07:06 PM
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7829.jpg)

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7832.jpg)

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7826.jpg)

Keyboards.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 20, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7834.jpg)

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7831.jpg)

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7822.jpg)

More strings.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 20, 2013, 02:17:46 PM
Finally, thanks to a nifty reflection, I am one with the Buddha!

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7974.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 21, 2013, 05:45:10 AM
Hi Tony - thanks for all of the great pictures of historic musical instruments from the MFA in Boston - probably nearly 10 years since my last visit there; not as long to the fine collection at the Met in NYC or the Library of Congress.  Now, I do have the MFA book of their collection on my iPad (less than 200 pages and obviously does not include many of the instruments you posted) - a free download (link provided by Karl) which I'm not sure is still available?  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Geo Dude on July 21, 2013, 08:35:45 AM

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i340/Szyk/IMG_7814.jpg)

Larson Brothers Harp Guitar from around 1920.

I'm pretty sure that made an appearance in This Is Spinal Tap. :P

Great pictures!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 21, 2013, 09:46:02 AM
Nice to see you again, at long last, Tony!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 21, 2013, 12:14:21 PM
Thanks, Karl! Good to see you, too. We'll have to get together for food and drink before the summer ends.

Glad you enjoyed the pictures, Dave. I do wish the instruments were displayed in a bigger area. The exhibit is one of the first you come to upon entering the museum and the room gets very crowded.

I'm pretty sure that made an appearance in This Is Spinal Tap. :P

Great pictures!

LOL!

(http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/tele-technical/80861d1303416208t-spinal-tap-knobs-oldtagger-jpg&sa=X&ei=BE7sUcnHBK3D4AOvzIHgAQ&ved=0CAwQ8wc4Iw&usg=AFQjCNEfq6FOX-RNA3D2Xq1WnCHnuJajSw)

Unfortunately, the instruments in the exhibit are like Nigel's guitar -- kept safely under glass. I'd love to hear what they actually sound like.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on July 22, 2013, 04:50:22 AM
Hi Jo..... - thanks for your comments - I'll past them on to Susan, but I agree (not as an expert or performer) that it is much easier to get notes out of her recorders - Dave :)
How's the learning process coming for, uh, "Harpo"? :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 22, 2013, 05:59:29 AM
How's the learning process coming for, uh, "Harpo"? :)

Hi Jo - well w/ difficulty; at the moment, she is trying to improve her guitar skills, both by taking regular lessons & also joining a local guitar group that meet and play together - all prompted by a vacation to Memphis, TN a few years back - at the Gibson Guitar store, I bought her a Masterbilt Epiphone steel string instrument (below) to complement her 'classical' guitar - she is improving but leaves little time to do much else (including playing her several harps - ;) ) - thanks for asking - Dave

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-K3dFPh9/0/O/EpiphoneDR500M.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pat B on July 22, 2013, 07:25:49 AM
Unfortunately, the instruments in the exhibit are like Nigel's guitar -- kept safely under glass. I'd love to hear what they actually sound like.

Hmm. I know that some of the Smithsonian's instruments were used for recordings in the '80s-'90s by Smithson Quartet, Castle Trio, and some by Archibudelli. Is that normal or do most museums keep them encased always? I would think that the owners -- whether the museum or not -- would want them to be occasionally played (but not toured).

Anyway, thanks for the pictures.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 22, 2013, 08:13:40 AM
The MFA Musical Instruments Curator does indeed arrange events for performers to demostrate the instruments in the collection.
 
(Tony, would you like me to have you added to his mailing list?)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on July 22, 2013, 12:55:48 PM
Hi Jo - well w/ difficulty; at the moment, she is trying to improve her guitar skills, both by taking regular lessons & also joining a local guitar group that meet and play together - all prompted by a vacation to Memphis, TN a few years back - at the Gibson Guitar store, I bought her a Masterbilt Epiphone steel string instrument (below) to complement her 'classical' guitar - she is improving but leaves little time to do much else (including playing her several harps - ;) ) - thanks for asking - Dave
Well, learning any instrument takes great discipline, especially if she wants to do more than just "play around" on it.  I wish her well!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on July 22, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
The MFA Musical Instruments Curator does indeed arrange events for performers to demostrate the instruments in the collection.
 
(Tony, would you like me to have you added to his mailing list?)

That would be great, Karl. I'll pm you my info.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Geo Dude on July 22, 2013, 04:18:01 PM
It seems to me that it would be of some benefit to a museum to record performances on their instruments and sell the CDs.  Glad to know that they do perform on them once in a while, even though I'm too far away to receive any benefit.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on July 22, 2013, 05:47:27 PM
It seems to me that it would be of some benefit to a museum to record performances on their instruments and sell the CDs.  Glad to know that they do perform on them once in a while, even though I'm too far away to receive any benefit.
Been done.  One of the ancient LPs in my collection is of a Beethoven quartet, Opus 130, performed on instruments in the Smithsonian collection. 8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 23, 2013, 03:01:13 AM
It seems to me that it would be of some benefit to a museum to record performances on their instruments and sell the CDs.  Glad to know that they do perform on them once in a while, even though I'm too far away to receive any benefit.

The curator also produced an e-book with recordings and video (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21929.msg724209.html#msg724209), although at present it's only accessible to subjects of the Evil Empire Apple users.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 23, 2013, 03:02:54 AM
Also, the Boston Museum Trio (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_srch_drd_B0046LB37I?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=The%20Boston%20Museum%20Trio&index=digital-music&search-type=ss) has recorded a fair amount, playing instruments from the MFA collection.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Harpo on July 24, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
Well, learning any instrument takes great discipline, especially if she wants to do more than just "play around" on it.  I wish her well!

Thanks! I taught myself to play many years ago in college but "plateaued" very early. I'm really glad I finally decided to take lessons; the feedback  from a real person is essential. My teacher is literally 40 years younger than I am, an enjoyable intergenerational relationship. I'm still singing and playing piano but the harps, dulcimers and recorders will have to wait.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on November 17, 2013, 11:28:48 AM
Has anyone heard (of) this?

Viola Organista (http://artdaily.com/news/66242/Italian-Renaissance-master-Leonardo-da-Vinci-s-extremely-rare-Viola-Organista--the-sound-of-genius#.UokYE_kSmSr)

http://www.youtube.com/v/xS9c76V4RDE
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 17, 2013, 04:23:24 PM
Has anyone heard (of) this?

Viola Organista (http://artdaily.com/news/66242/Italian-Renaissance-master-Leonardo-da-Vinci-s-extremely-rare-Viola-Organista--the-sound-of-genius#.UokYE_kSmSr)

Thanks Stingo for the links to the Viola Organista - da Vinci was pretty remarkable w/ his ideas (and potential inventions) - liked the sound of that instrument - I'm sure a CD will be released - any information about the latter from anyone?  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: stingo on November 18, 2013, 03:14:57 PM
Thanks Stingo for the links to the Viola Organista - da Vinci was pretty remarkable w/ his ideas (and potential inventions) - liked the sound of that instrument - I'm sure a CD will be released - any information about the latter from anyone?  Dave :)

While I love a CD, I think you have to see the instrument played for the best impact. I know when I watched the video, I saw him playing a keyboard instrument yet it sounded like a string instrument. Mind blown. lol
Title: DaVinci's Viola Organista
Post by: Cato on November 18, 2013, 04:22:25 PM
Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/v/sv3py3Ap8_Y

See also:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2509546/Musician-replicates-Da-Vincis-viola-organista-piano-makes-sound-cello.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2509546/Musician-replicates-Da-Vincis-viola-organista-piano-makes-sound-cello.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 19, 2013, 08:56:12 AM
Just left a post in the listening thread (quoted below) that deserves a place here - just added the lower pictures of these two instruments from the link (there is a PDF file that goes into much detail for those curious).  Dave :)

Quote
Graupner, Christoph (1683-1760) - Partitas, V.1 & V.2 w/ Geneviéve Soly - she has now recorded 7 volumes of Graupner's keyboard works - I've not yet bought other volumes of these works but may?

She plays two different but similar harpsichords (pics below) by Hubbard & Broekman, both dual manuals and after the designs & practices of H.A. Hass (ca. 1730s); reproductions made in 1998 & 2002, respectively - more information HERE (http://www.hubharp.com/kits/germdbl.htm), if interested - Dave :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Xmp6JL2/0/O/Graupner_SolyV1.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-5Gwh2zW/0/O/Graupner_SolyV2.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-bN59HGs/0/O/Harps_Soly_V1.png)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-TPWBsfG/0/O/Harps_Soly_V2.png)

(http://www.hubharp.com/images/FIweb300/SHass275web.jpg)  (http://www.hubharp.com/images/FIweb300/LHass250web.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on December 20, 2013, 07:35:14 AM
While I love a CD, I think you have to see the instrument played for the best impact. I know when I watched the video, I saw him playing a keyboard instrument yet it sounded like a string instrument. Mind blown. lol
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61NLNRbfvML._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on December 28, 2013, 12:10:38 PM
Dave,
I've never seen this place linked here, and I don't have any particular thing I wanted to point out, but it seems like just the sort of place you antique lovers would like   0:)

Orpheon Foundation (http://www.orpheon.org/OldSite/Seiten/Abra/vazquezcoll.htm)

This particular collection (The Vasquez) is amazing on its own, but I see references to others here too. Worth exploring!

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 28, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Dave,
I've never seen this place linked here, and I don't have any particular thing I wanted to point out, but it seems like just the sort of place you antique lovers would like   0:)

Orpheon Foundation (http://www.orpheon.org/OldSite/Seiten/Abra/vazquezcoll.htm)

This particular collection (The Vasquez) is amazing on its own, but I see references to others here too. Worth exploring....

Hi Gurn - thanks for the link - I've not been to that site but plenty of beautiful old wooden instruments, including some nice pics of barytons; also articles on the instruments which are played by members of the Orpheon Consort who seemed to have made some recordings - will need to check on Amazon or on the links at the site.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 30, 2013, 05:35:08 PM
Sorting through my lps while searching for albums related to the vinyl thread, I rediscovered this 3-record box set from Telefunken that provided some enjoyable afternoon listening today.

Canadian-born Bradford Tracey performs on instruments from the Fritz Neumeyer Collection of Historical Keyboard Instruments housed in Bad Krozingen Castle, constructed in 1579.

The recordings include pieces by Johann Kaspar Kerll (1627-1693), Johann Pachelbel (Ciacona in C, not Canon in D), Johann Joseph Flux (1660-1741), Georg Christoph Wagenseil (1715-1777), Giles Farnaby (1565-1640?), and harpsichord suites by Henry Purcell.

The photos in the enclosed booklet are somewhat lacking, but there is a wealth of background information on the instruments, the composers and the compositions. I've been unable to find these recordings in CD form so I don't know if they're available digitally.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on December 30, 2013, 06:31:53 PM
Hi Gurn - thanks for the link - I've not been to that site but plenty of beautiful old wooden instruments, including some nice pics of barytons; also articles on the instruments which are played by members of the Orpheon Consort who seemed to have made some recordings - will need to check on Amazon or on the links at the site.  Dave :)

Dave, glad you liked it. Yes, it was the baryton pics that led me there. I am writing a couple of essays abut barytons right now and was randomly hunting for nice pix... :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on December 30, 2013, 06:37:56 PM
Sorting through my lps while searching for albums related to the vinyl thread, I rediscovered this 3-record box set from Telefunken that provided some enjoyable afternoon listening today.

Canadian-born Bradford Tracey performs on instruments from the Fritz Neumeyer Collection of Historical Keyboard Instruments housed in Bad Krozingen Castle, constructed in 1579.

The recordings include pieces by Johann Kaspar Kerll (1627-1693), Johann Pachelbel (Ciacona in C, not Canon in D), Johann Joseph Flux (1660-1741), Georg Christoph Wagenseil (1715-1777), Giles Farnaby (1565-1640?), and harpsichord suites by Henry Purcell.

The photos in the enclosed booklet are somewhat lacking, but there is a wealth of background information on the instruments, the composers and the compositions. I've been unable to find these recordings in CD form so I don't know if they're available digitally.

Tony,
No, it is F-U-X I'm afraid, although one can avoid saying it like the naughty version by saying 'Fuchs' (fyooks rhymes with kooks). Anyway, Bradford Tracey. I haven't seen those LP's digitized yet, more's the pity, but I do have him playing some Haydn very nicely, some songs with tenor James Griffiths on an appropriate fortepiano. He is seemingly a very talented keyboardist. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 31, 2013, 05:45:20 AM
Tony,
No, it is F-U-X I'm afraid, although one can avoid saying it like the naughty version by saying 'Fuchs' (fyooks rhymes with kooks). Anyway, Bradford Tracey. I haven't seen those LP's digitized yet, more's the pity, but I do have him playing some Haydn very nicely, some songs with tenor James Griffiths on an appropriate fortepiano. He is seemingly a very talented keyboardist. :)

8)

 :-[

Oops. Sorry for the typo. We all know Johann Joseph Flux was the man who invented the electronic capacitor necessary for time travel many years later.

 :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on December 31, 2013, 06:06:11 AM
:-[

Oops. Sorry for the typo. We all know Johann Joseph Flux was the man who invented the electronic capacitor necessary for time travel many years later.

 :)

Indeed, the master of the useless tube!   :)

FWIW, I really didn't know that about Fux/Fuchs until I was reading an old journal from the Esterházy archives the other day and one of the singers names was Fux, but they put Fuchs in parentheses after it, this from 1765. So, live and learn, for me. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 31, 2013, 08:15:00 AM
:-[

Oops. Sorry for the typo. We all know Johann Joseph Flux was the man who invented the electronic capacitor necessary for time travel many years later.

 :)

OH - thought he invented the product below - still have some in the basement from the days I did a wee little copper pipe soldering - now we have a great plumbing service!  Dave  ;D

(http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/0h/sweating-pipe-4-0407.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 31, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
Canadian-born Bradford Tracey performs on instruments from the Fritz Neumeyer Collection of Historical Keyboard Instruments housed in Bad Krozingen Castle, constructed in 1579.

The recordings include pieces by Johann Kaspar Kerll (1627-1693), Johann Pachelbel (Ciacona in C, not Canon in D), Johann Joseph Flux (1660-1741), Georg Christoph Wagenseil (1715-1777), Giles Farnaby (1565-1640?), and harpsichord suites by Henry Purcell.

The photos in the enclosed booklet are somewhat lacking, but there is a wealth of background information on the instruments, the composers and the compositions. I've been unable to find these recordings in CD form so I don't know if they're available digitally.

Hi Tony - thanks for the above information; Bradford Tracey (1951-1987) - short bio HERE (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Tracey-Bradford.htm) (cause of his early death not stated?); boy, he would have been a performer I'd like to be collecting - just checked Amazon USA w/ vinyl and some CD listings, such as the one below ($20 used on the MP) - Dave :)

P.S. just check the back cover of that CD - nearly all the same composers - could this be transfer?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AIA-T%2BjZL._SX300_.jpg)  (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/29/cf/73bf90b809a0a97014455110.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on December 31, 2013, 09:19:07 AM
Hi Tony - thanks for the above information; Bradford Tracey (1951-1987) - short bio HERE (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Tracey-Bradford.htm) (cause of his early death not stated?); boy, he would have been a performer I'd like to be collecting - just checked Amazon USA w/ vinyl and some CD listings, such as the one below ($20 used on the MP) - Dave :)

P.S. just check the back cover of that CD - nearly all the same composers - could this be transfer?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AIA-T%2BjZL._SX300_.jpg)  (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/29/cf/73bf90b809a0a97014455110.L.jpg)

Surely it is, Dave. I need to check that out. FSM is such a fine label for obscurities like that. I have maybe 3 or 4 of their disks and they are all gems, as this one promises to be. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 31, 2013, 09:22:17 AM
Hi Tony - thanks for the above information; Bradford Tracey (1951-1987) - short bio HERE (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Tracey-Bradford.htm) (cause of his early death not stated?); boy, he would have been a performer I'd like to be collecting - just checked Amazon USA w/ vinyl and some CD listings, such as the one below ($20 used on the MP) - Dave :)

P.S. just check the back cover of that CD - nearly all the same composers - could this be transfer?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AIA-T%2BjZL._SX300_.jpg)  (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/29/cf/73bf90b809a0a97014455110.L.jpg)


Yes -- Those are the tracks of the first record of the 3 LP set.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on December 31, 2013, 09:45:42 AM
Hi Tony - thanks for the above information; Bradford Tracey (1951-1987) - short bio HERE (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Tracey-Bradford.htm) (cause of his early death not stated?);

There's a more detailed bio here, Dave, but still no cause of death given.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/en/article/bradford-tracey-emc/ (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/en/article/bradford-tracey-emc/)

EDIT: Then again, it could be the same bio in a bigger font.   :-[
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 31, 2013, 12:41:53 PM
Thanks Guys - I went ahead and ordered the 'used' copy from the Amazon MP - may have been the last one there?

Also thanks for the link, I had found that one too but again no cause of death; well @ 36 y/o in 1987, my educated guess would be an accident, suicide, or AIDS?  But who knows - Dave :)

Surely it is, Dave. I need to check that out. FSM is such a fine label for obscurities like that. I have maybe 3 or 4 of their disks and they are all gems, as this one promises to be. :)

There's a more detailed bio here, Dave, but still no cause of death given.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/en/article/bradford-tracey-emc/ (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/en/article/bradford-tracey-emc/)

EDIT: Then again, it could be the same bio in a bigger font.   :-[
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Bogey on March 28, 2014, 12:45:32 PM
Per Dave:

Just got finished with this recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pCxSkDQrL._SY300_.jpg)

Always fun to read the notes on the history of both pieces.  I have to say that this Water Music definitely has a different sound than my Pinnock recording.  One reason why many of us enjoy multiple efforts on this board.  As I was looking through the notes on the period instrumentation (which they did a cruddy job of listing the musicians' weapons of choice), I noted for the Fireworks an instrument known as the "serpent" played by Douglas Yeo.  Pretty cool:

(http://www.berliozhistoricalbrass.org/yeo%20lander%20web.jpg)


(http://www.berliozhistoricalbrass.org/5x7%20serpent%20trio%20-%20small.jpg)
The American Serpent Players
Douglas Yeo, Craig Kridel, and Steven Silverstein

(http://www.berliozhistoricalbrass.org/images/monk-keyless-2259-100.jpg)

This one is known as the Anaconda!
(http://www.blackdiamondbrass.com/tbahist/dougyeoanaconda.jpg)

Got to get Dave's (Sonic's) take on this bad boy....though I am sure he has already addressed it in another thread. ;D  Not sure which made it onto this recording, but Yeo wrote a whole book on it and has a great page on the instrument!

(http://necmusic.edu/sites/default/files/images/DouglasYeoSerpentDVD170px.jpg)

http://www.yeodoug.com/serpent.html
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 28, 2014, 04:02:08 PM
Thanks Bill - yet more additions to the wide variety of instruments from bygone years!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on March 29, 2014, 01:57:06 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61i6TTbeFWL._AA160_.jpg)

This afternoon, my wife and I attended an informal presentation by the above artist and other musicians in a small newly-opened venue not too far from our home -- a fascinating demonstration of a mid-20th century Baldwin grand piano, early 19th century  Broadwood and Sons square piano, and a double-manual harpsichord based on the popular 18th century Flemish style.
  Seated in arm's reach to the harpsichord, I was able to enjoy all the subtle nuances of sound that don't seem to be captured in even the best recordings. There was a lot of interesting discussion regarding the various tunings of the instruments and how those tunings related to the styles of music composed for each. Unfortunately, we had to leave before audience members were allowed to play them, but at least I was able to pick up a copy of the above CD before we exited.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 14, 2014, 10:18:23 AM
Renaissance Guitar - likely developed in Spain in the late 15th century although the vihuela remained a dominant instrument; this pre-Baroque guitar became popular elsewhere, particularly in France where an abundant amount of music was transposed/composed for the instrument.  Although variations existed, a common arrangement was 4 courses of strings w/ 3 duplicated and one single, thus a total of 7 strings - below is a pic of a Renaissance guitar w/ 7 strings and their grouping; apparently moveable gut frets were used (SOURCE (http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/aboutLute/RenaissanceGuitar.html)). 

Based on a recommendation from Que in the listening thread, I just received the CD below - Michael Craddock performing on a Renaissance guitar (reproduction built by Larence K. Brown, 1989) - the other image shows Craddock w/ his instrument which is rather small and has a much lighter sound that a standard guitar (or vihuela); the music is a compilation of three French composers w/ works from the 16th century.

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-9kMqvX2/0/O/RenGuitar.jpg)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-jG3kqBQ/0/O/Craddock_RenGuitar.jpg)  (http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/old/Cleveland2008/RenaissanceGuitar/DemonstrationJH.JPG)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Que on April 14, 2014, 11:51:31 AM
Now I see the pictures - indeed, it is small! :) But with a delicate sound, I think. Cute. :D

Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 14, 2014, 05:18:07 PM
Now I see the pictures - indeed, it is small! :) But with a delicate sound, I think. Cute. :

Hi Que - that 'cute' comment got me thinking when looking at the pic of Michael Craddock - kind of reminded me of a long ago American entertainer named Arthur Godfrey who played a 4-string ukulele - size of the instrument is similar, plus their appearances are kind of the same - LOL!  Dave :)

(http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/images/300U/300U-2735_front.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on April 15, 2014, 12:06:43 PM

 apparently moveable gut frets were used


These were often set slightly "flat" to compensate for any pitch distortion created by the stretching of the gut string over the fret.



Hi Que - that 'cute' comment got me thinking when looking at the pic of Michael Craddock - kind of reminded me of a long ago American entertainer named Arthur Godfrey who played a 4-string ukulele - size of the instrument is similar, plus their appearances are kind of the same - LOL!  Dave :)


My mother was a big fan of Arthur Godfrey and a regular viewer of his TV show during the 1950s. There is a picture of me somewhere as a very young boy strumming an "official" Arthur Godfrey ukelele. I wish I still had it!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 15, 2014, 05:24:58 PM
These were often set slightly "flat" to compensate for any pitch distortion created by the stretching of the gut string over the fret.

My mother was a big fan of Arthur Godfrey and a regular viewer of his TV show during the 1950s. There is a picture of me somewhere as a very young boy strumming an "official" Arthur Godfrey ukelele. I wish I still had it!

Hi Tony - thanks for the comments; I use to watch the Godfrey show w/ my parents who were fans - Arthur even had red hair kind of like Craddock in the color image.

I know there is a pic of Susan as a teen strumming a ukelele on my home computer but we're on a short vacation now (northern AL & TN, i.e. Florence & Nashville - will visit Muscle Shoals & the new, or moved, Country Music Hall of Fame; plus a 'side trip' tomorrow to the Shiloh Battlefield to satisfy my Civil War buff habit!) - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Moonfish on May 31, 2014, 01:54:18 PM
Thanks for the pointer Dave! This does indeed seem to be a wonderful topic (and, yes, I very much enjoy the sound of older instruments). I will make sure to peruse this thread later on tonight. Thanks for starting it!  :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 31, 2014, 03:06:54 PM
Thanks for the pointer Dave! This does indeed seem to be a wonderful topic (and, yes, I very much enjoy the sound of older instruments). I will make sure to peruse this thread later on tonight. Thanks for starting it!  :)

Hi Peter - welcome to the Old Instrument thread - I'm sure that you'll enjoy - plenty of great information & pics here - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 31, 2014, 03:43:24 PM
I posted this disk in my Mass (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20620.msg805406.html#msg805406) thread the other day, since there aren't enough Reutter disks around to discuss collecting his music!

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/CD%20Covers/ReutterPortusFelicitatis_zpsaee5378c.jpg)

Eight of the eleven works on this disk were originally written for an instrument called the 'pantaleon', named after the inventor, Pantaleon Hebenstreit. It was a huge hammered dulcimer, for all intents and purposes, but the hammers were keyed, and thus it was a keyboard instrument and is considered a predecessor of the piano.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantalon
Compositions
Compositions made for Hellman include three by Caldara, eight by Johann Georg Reutter and an aria by Johann Joseph Fux in the Festa teatrale Giunone placata (1725).[1] Ramee has released CDs of the Caldara (RAM0405) and Reutter (RAM1302) (the present disk)

What surprised me in the liner notes of this disk was my discovery that there is no single extant specimen of a pantaleon, nor even a structural drawing! Thus one cannot be reconstructed like tangent pianos have been, for example. I really wanted to see one in action, but alas.

The works on this disk are played (beautifully) on a saltiero, a type of Italian or Iberian dulcimer. One of the works has an obbligato duet for saltiero and archlute! The lutenist in this group also plays a theorbo continuo. Anyway, since no one can say exactly what a pantaleon sounded like, it must be extrapolated from similar instruments, and this bunch has done a great job of it. This is a very reasonably priced CD (I paid $12 new at importcd's) and will give you some interesting sonorities making up some pretty good music. Reutter didn't get to be the Top of the Heap in Vienna for 30 years without having a little bit of talent!  :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 31, 2014, 04:49:17 PM
I posted this disk in my Mass (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20620.msg805406.html#msg805406) thread the other day, since there aren't enough Reutter disks around to discuss collecting his music!

(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/CD%20Covers/ReutterPortusFelicitatis_zpsaee5378c.jpg)

Eight of the eleven works on this disk were originally written for an instrument called the 'pantaleon', named after the inventor, Pantaleon Hebenstreit. It was a huge hammered dulcimer, for all intents and purposes, but the hammers were keyed, and thus it was a keyboard instrument and is considered a predecessor of the piano.

What surprised me in the liner notes of this disk was my discovery that there is no single extant specimen of a pantaleon, nor even a structural drawing! Thus one cannot be reconstructed like tangent pianos have been, for example. I really wanted to see one in action, but alas.

The works on this disk are played (beautifully) on a saltiero, a type of Italian or Iberian dulcimer. One of the works has an obbligato duet for saltiero and archlute! The lutenist in this group also plays a theorbo continuo. Anyway, since no one can say exactly what a pantaleon sounded like, it must be extrapolated from similar instruments, and this bunch has done a great job of it. This is a very reasonably priced CD (I paid $12 new at importcd's) and will give you some interesting sonorities making up some pretty good music. Reutter didn't get to be the Top of the Heap in Vienna for 30 years without having a little bit of talent!  :)

BOY - I've not really heard of this composer (or at my age may have forgotten?) - but the instrumentation sounds quite interesting - price for the CD is a little steep @ Amazon but the MP3 DL would be acceptable - is this worth the price?  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 31, 2014, 05:43:45 PM
BOY - I've not really heard of this composer (or at my age may have forgotten?) - but the instrumentation sounds quite interesting - price for the CD is a little steep @ Amazon but the MP3 DL would be acceptable - is this worth the price?  Dave :)

I bought from importcd's on the AMP. I never buy CD's from Amazon itself! What's the MP3's, $8.95?  If so, yes, that's a fair price. It is a specialized sort of music, mostly church music but it sounds like a typically Austrian small ensemble, with an organ continuo. It is easy to see plugging any of the motets into a contemporary Mass Ordinary, with maybe an organ concerto to go with it and some solo organ pieces. Really quite wonderful, the sound of the saltiero is really unique for this type of music, although dulcimer music of different styles would inform you of what it would sound like. Doesn't Susan play one? I thought you had mentioned that one time.

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 31, 2014, 05:46:42 PM
Here is the Ramée web site, Dave. Their catalog is very small but also very interesting. I have 2 or 3 on my wish list. :)

Ramée (http://www.ramee.org/cataloguegb.html)

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Moonfish on December 14, 2014, 11:50:38 AM
Repost:

Check this out:
Elisabetta Lanzoni - harpsichord painter!!!   :)
These are some beautiful instruments (at least visually)!

http://www.elisabettalanzoni.com/index.htm (http://www.elisabettalanzoni.com/index.htm)

Lots of examples. Here are two:
[I WANT one of these! I would spend the rest of my life playing the harpsichord....]

(http://www.elisabettalanzoni.com/immagini/1290_124kb.jpg)

or

(http://www.elisabettalanzoni.com/immagini/3146_ritagliata_158kb.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 15, 2014, 06:45:54 AM
Thanks Moonfish for reposting the harpsichord pics and the links - I went to the website and looked at the many painted instruments - was impressed w/ the artist's skills and curious about the prices (usually these keyboard replications, of course depending on the maker & the intricacy of the finishing, run in multiples of $10K). I particularly liked Riccardo Muti's harpsichord (shown below).  Dave :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-c6ScdVQ/0/O/RicardoMuti_1.png)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-SsWCnwK/0/O/RicardoMuti_2.png)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Cosi bel do on December 15, 2014, 06:58:46 AM
One of the most beautiful modern harpsichords I've seen is Skip Sempé's Bruce Kennedy.

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XjQWzlENCVg/hqdefault.jpg) (http://www.paradizo.org/assets/Discography/_resampled/SetWidth250-PA0007-A-French-Collection.jpg)

The figurative paintings on many copies seem really fake when you see them in reality, but this one doesn't, it's really perfect (and the instrument is wonderful too).

And apart from that, my favourite harpsichord visually and one of my favourites musically is the harpsichord of the Château d'Assas (builder unknown). Scott Ross's (and it sounds wonderful on more recent recordings, the Duphly/Joyé for instance.

(http://www.tourisme-picsaintloup.fr/sites/otgpsl.pycna.com/files/scott%20ross.JPG)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 22, 2015, 08:01:24 PM
I don't think the mid-19th century is 'old' in this context, but I have always been curious about this instrument, and here is a chance to see and hear one. Freaking amazing, actually. :)

The Octobass (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12X-i9YHzmE)

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 23, 2015, 10:28:42 AM
I don't think the mid-19th century is 'old' in this context, but I have always been curious about this instrument, and here is a chance to see and hear one. Freaking amazing, actually. :)

The Octobass (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12X-i9YHzmE)

Hi Gurn - watched the video - amazing instrument w/ notes below the lower human threshold of hearing (i.e. 20 Hz) (pic below) - might have been a great instrument to use in those old '50s sci-fi films that I love - kind of like the theremin which produce some eerie sounds in those movies.  Dave :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-G2fKLwM/0/O/Octobass%2C_MIM_PHX_%284554573624%29.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-qB92DGR/0/O/theremin.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 23, 2015, 11:46:07 AM
Almost as scary as the OctoMom!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 23, 2015, 07:05:43 PM
Almost as scary as the OctoMom!

Hey Tony - post a picture! ;)  Dave
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 23, 2015, 07:13:33 PM
Almost as scary as the OctoMom!

Yes, I suppose it would be to someone who plays just one of those tiny little 'fiddle' things... :D  :D

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pat B on January 24, 2015, 05:14:59 PM
Now that that floodgate has been opened ;) :
Titanic Tuba (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK1GDkvFdL4)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on January 27, 2015, 09:08:42 AM
Berlioz mentions the octobass in his Treatise on Instrumentation. 8)

Pat, I wonder if an instrument like that tuba was what Edgard Varese was thinking of when he included a "contrabass" tuba part in Arcana... ;D
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Fagotterdämmerung on January 27, 2015, 10:53:06 AM
  I have a strong preference for earlier pianos. Not the very early pianos of the late baroque, which sound sort of like harpsichord-cimbaloms, but the piano of about Mozart to Chopin. What I really notice in these is the larger variety of color: I find modern piano town a bit colorless and too even across the range, the early pianos sound intriguingly steely-reedy in tone in the lowest notes and very bright and crystalline up top, sounding the most like the modern piano in the mid ranges.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 27, 2015, 11:56:23 AM
  I have a strong preference for earlier pianos. Not the very early pianos of the late baroque, which sound sort of like harpsichord-cimbaloms, but the piano of about Mozart to Chopin. What I really notice in these is the larger variety of color: I find modern piano town a bit colorless and too even across the range, the early pianos sound intriguingly steely-reedy in tone in the lowest notes and very bright and crystalline up top, sounding the most like the modern piano in the mid ranges.

I like even the earlier ones than those (although I agree 100% on those). One of my favorite instruments is the Tangent Piano (Tangentenflügel) which you can hear to good effect in Spanyi's CPE Bach disks, for example. Not to mention, of course, the clavichord... :)

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Brian on May 28, 2015, 12:05:57 PM
Interview with fortepianist Penelope Crawford (http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/May/Crawford_interview.htm) (by me)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 28, 2015, 12:23:11 PM
Interview with fortepianist Penelope Crawford (http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/May/Crawford_interview.htm) (by me)

Good interview, congrats, amigo!

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on May 29, 2015, 04:55:35 AM
Interview with fortepianist Penelope Crawford (http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/May/Crawford_interview.htm) (by me)

Hi Brian - thanks for posting a link to your interview w/ Penelope Crawford - loved her instrumental & woodworking projects - could use her in my workshop!  Excellent job, as expected!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 04, 2015, 07:57:52 AM
Quantz, Johann (1697-1773) - Mary Oleskiewicz on various Baroque flutes - my two newest acquisitions of Quantz's music below.

Earlier in this thread, Bill (a.k.a. Bogey) and I exchanged some posts about the flute music of this composer and also the flutist - well, after 2-3 years, I just added the two CDs below to my collection.  Mary Oleskiewicz is not only a Baroque flutist but an Associate Professor of Music at the U of Mass in Boston (her Credentials (https://www.umb.edu/academics/cla/faculty/mary_oleskiewicz)); she obtained her PhD in music in my 'neck of the roads', i.e. Duke University in Durham, N.C.  As a teacher (her specialization is the music of Quantz and the Bach family) and writer, she composed the liner notes for the discs below - second set of images shows her & Quantz - the final image, some Baroque flutes.  On the quartet recording, she plays a copy of a Quantz flute which is in the Library of Congress (LOC), Dayton C. Miller Collection (tuned to a pitch, a' = 385 Hz); on the concerto disc, she plays a two-keyed Baroque flutes (not sure if the same?) after Quantz (who was a flute designer/maker, also) made for Frederick the Great, now also in the LOC, and built by Jean-Francois Beaudin; tuned the same.

Johann Quantz was a virtuoso flute player, composer, flute maker who also wrote an important 18th century treatise on the flute.  His benefactor and 'pupil' for which he composed much of his flute works was the Prussian king, Frederick the Great (who also composed & was apparently an excellent performer on the instrument).  Quartz composed about 200 solo sonatas, 40 trio sonatas, & 300 concertos for the flute; the quartets were recently found and received their premiere performances by Dr. Oleskiewicz (recording from 2003).  Dave :)

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-HZ5Vfbg/0/O/Quantz_FQts_MaryO_Hung286.jpg)  (https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-GpNT9RV/0/O/Quantz_FConcs_MaryO_Naxos120.jpg) 

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-pNSrtLb/0/O/Quantz_MaryOleskiewicz.jpg)  (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mUzk9_i6l1M/hqdefault.jpg)

Below some Martin Doyle Baroque Flutes (http://www.martindoyleflutes.com):

(http://www.martindoyleflutes.com/images/slider/slides/slider-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 09, 2015, 10:59:06 AM
Just left a post quoted below in the 'Listening Thread' on a new acquisition, i.e. a 3-CD set of [g]Vivaldi[/b] Oboe Concertos played on a reproduction instrument made in 2008 by Pau Orriols after a 1720 original - likely similar to the one at the bottom of the quote (click on the image for an enlargement, if interested).

Additional pics immediately below of the instrument maker (on the left) and a portion of the period instrument group L'Arte dell'Arco - really enjoying the sound of this wooden oboe!  Dave :)

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-PC6L7xX/0/O/Pau_Orriols.png)

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-tndckJV/0/O/LArte_dellArco.png)

Quote
Vivaldi, Antonio - Oboe Concertos w/ Pier Luigi Fabretti on oboe & L'Arte dell'Arco - period instrument group; this set contains 3-CDs - I had just one CD of the 'Red Priest's' oboe concertos (all duplicated in the Brilliant set). 

Fabretti's oboe was made by Pau Orriols, Villanova i la Geltrú, 2008 after Thomas Standby Junior, c.1720 - found the pic below on the web, probably the same oboe but not sure who owns that one.  Dave :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71ulihjW0rL._SL1000_.jpg)

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-rQz9Gwc/0/O/Oboe_Orriols.png)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on November 13, 2015, 10:19:12 AM
Looks like the oboe is made of boxwood, a dense, heavy wood but not nearly so much as grenadilla, the wood most modern oboes are made of.

I nearly bought a Baroque oboe once, but it was pitched at A415 and thus I would have only been able to play it with period-instrument groups.  Now I wish I had gotten it. :(
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 13, 2015, 12:35:42 PM
Looks like the oboe is made of boxwood, a dense, heavy wood but not nearly so much as grenadilla, the wood most modern oboes are made of.

I nearly bought a Baroque oboe once, but it was pitched at A415 and thus I would have only been able to play it with period-instrument groups.  Now I wish I had gotten it. :(

Below a pic of some Maracaibo Boxwood oboes from HERE (http://www.lazarsearlymusic.com/Moeck-Historical-Woodwinds/moeck_historical_woodwinds.htm) - same place that I bought a chalumeau back in the spring of 2013 (a few posts in this thread dating to March of that year; those shown are made from pearwood - there are some Baroque flutes on the website made from grenadilla (African blackwood, I believe) - not sure if our chalumeau is pearwood or boxwood?

Susan has not done much w/ the instrument to date - been concentrating on her piano & guitar playing - taking guitar lessons at the moment.  I've tried to blow that chalumeau w/ little success - there must be a trick to getting that reed to vibrate - any suggestions, links, etc.?  Dave :)

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-cgj532t/0/O/Screen%20Shot%202015-11-13%20at%202.59.04%20PM.png)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: jochanaan on November 13, 2015, 05:20:27 PM
...I've tried to blow that chalumeau w/ little success - there must be a trick to getting that reed to vibrate - any suggestions, links, etc.?  Dave :)
Try soaking the reed in water for about five minutes before you play.  I do that, and it helps.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 13, 2015, 10:16:36 PM
Try soaking the reed in water for about five minutes before you play.  I do that, and it helps.

Thanks - will give it a try!  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 21, 2016, 07:18:25 AM
Well, this is a special sort of reproduction, of an instrument which was designed but never built. The designer was Da Vinci. It has the most amazing sound for a totally acoustic instrument that you ever heard, I must say. Check it out.

http://tinyurl.com/hhn8xz2

(http://images.smh.com.au/2013/11/18/4932718/NG_Vinciwide4-20131118132723799848-620x349.jpg)

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Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Que on February 21, 2016, 10:14:09 AM
Amazing!  :) 

And on CD....   :D

http://www.violaorganista.com/en/cd-recording/

Q
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 21, 2016, 11:20:04 AM
Thanks Gurn for posting - believe that I've seen pics of da Vinci's drawings of this instrument but was unaware of this performance - I was looking @ the website and found some information of the time involved quoted below - WOW, like 200 days!  Just made a walnut spice rack for a friend which took me maybe 15 hours total over about a week.

Que's link to the CD is shown below - certainly a 'novelty' disc in a classical collection - wish listed or not?  :)  Dave

Quote
"I have no idea what Leonardo da Vinci might think of the instrument I’ve made, but I’d hope he’d be pleased,’’ said Zubrzycki, who spend three years and 5000 hours bringing da Vinci’s creation to life."

(https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-K5bVHbj/0/O/ViolaOrganista1.png)  (https://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-VjB5gCX/0/O/ViolaOrganista2.png)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 21, 2016, 11:26:14 AM
Just a follow-up, I was searching Amazon USA using 'viola organista' in the CD section and the disc below 'popped up' - I own some CDs by this group but the barely legible writing on the top back states "A Concert of Renaissance Music played on instruments designed by Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519)" - not sure what that means w/o seeing the liner notes?

ADDENDUM: found this LINK (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.musicaantigua.com/la-viola-organista-de-leonardo-da-vinci/&prev=search) which should do a Google translation from Spanish to English - also just checked Spotify and the disc is available for listening, so will do later today.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51cssg-vVTL.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rOYpoIdrL.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 21, 2016, 11:26:38 AM
It certainly is an amazing thing. That Da Vinci guy musta been a GEEN-yus! I was delighted with the sound of the thing, I must say. Given the description of the depth of the project, including selecting and arranging proper music for it, 5000 hours seems just about right, I would say. Undoubtedly the project of this guy's life!

Novelty CD? Possibly, but if I was seriously into music of that time and space, I wouldn't let the choice of instrument put me off. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2016, 07:37:41 AM
There's gotta be at least one GMGer who will fall in love with this VERY eccentric HIP album!

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/RIC362.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 23, 2016, 07:42:29 AM
No workaday ophicleide out there?...
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 23, 2016, 09:09:11 AM
There's gotta be at least one GMGer who will fall in love with this VERY eccentric HIP album!

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/RIC362.jpg)  (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Ophicleides.JPG)

Hi Brian - I've heard of this instrument (pre-tuba?), but did not know much - so below just a few paragraphs from this Wiki Article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophicleide) w/ the pic added above of the 'family of ophicleides' from the same source.  Dave :)

Quote
The ophicleide was invented in 1817 and patented in 1821 by French instrument maker Jean Hilaire Asté (also known as Halary or Haleri) as an extension to the keyed bugle or Royal Kent bugle family. It was the structural cornerstone of the brass section of the Romantic orchestra, often replacing the serpent, a Renaissance instrument which was thought to be outdated. Its long tubing bends back on itself, and it is played with a cupped mouthpiece similar to modern trombone and euphonium mouthpieces. It originally had nine keys, later expanded to as many as twelve keys, covering the large tone holes. Examples exist in E♭, C, B♭, and A♭ (soprano), F and E♭ (alto or quinticlave), B♭ and C (bass), and F or E♭ (contrabass). The most common members are the bass ophicleides pitched in B♭ or C. Soprano and contrabass instruments are very rare. Adolphe Sax and the modern maker Robb Stewart have built examples of soprano ophicleides an octave above the bass. Currently, only five contrabass ophicleides are known to exist. Three are in museums, and two are privately owned: one in Cooperstown, New York and one in Petaluma, California. Those in private hands were both made by Robb Stewart and are the only playable examples.

The ophicleide was eventually succeeded by the tuba, although it remained popular in Italy until the early twentieth century. The euphonium can also be called a successor instrument. One of the last great ophicleide players was the English musician Sam Hughes. There have been claims that the instrument was a direct ancestor of the saxophone: supposedly Adolphe Sax, while repairing an ophicleide, put a woodwind mouthpiece on the instrument and liked the sound, allegedly leading Sax to design and create a purpose-built instrument. However, this story is not considered plausible, since the developmental history of the saxophone is well documented and the ophicleide and saxophone are only superficially similar to each other in that both have a wide conical bore and large tone holes.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2016, 01:31:18 PM
It may be because I played the euphonium for 4 years in High School Band, but I have always found the ophicleide to be quite fascinating. I used to have a VHS (really!) tape of Gardiner/Orchestra Revolutionary and Romantic doing Berlioz' Symphony Fantastic, and the ophicleides and serpents in there were the hit of the show. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 23, 2016, 02:28:58 PM
It may be because I played the euphonium for 4 years in High School Band, but I have always found the ophicleide to be quite fascinating. I used to have a VHS (really!) tape of Gardiner/Orchestra Revolutionary and Romantic doing Berlioz' Symphony Fantastic, and the ophicleides and serpents in there were the hit of the show. :)

BOY - bought my first DVD player in the late 1990s, probably when their price in the USA fell below $500 (can't remember the exact year or the price) - went 'cold turkey' w/ VHS, donated the machine locally and got rid of all of my tapes (not a large number compared to my optical video discs collection now own).  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 22, 2016, 08:10:47 AM
Old Viennese Guitar & Relationship to the CF Martin Guitar Company!

Now listening to the Diabelli Solo Guitar Sonatas w/ Anthony Glise on a period guitar by Johann Georg Stauf(f)er (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Georg_Stauffer) (1778-1853), Vienna, ca. 1828 - the guitar has gut strings and is tuned a half-step lower than used now, but apparently matched the concert pitch in early 19th century Vienna.

The guitar used on this recording was built in the Viennese shop of J.G. Staufer (link above) and is named l'Antonella, and is apparently quite ornate and may have been played by Diabelli?  I could not find a decent pic of that particular guitar but the one below is of another Staufer guitar from this same time.  Also, Christian Frederick Martin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._F._Martin_%26_Company) (1796-1873) trained in Vienna w/ Staufer before moving to the United States where he founded the C.F. Martin Guitar Company in 1833 - below an early American C.F. Martin guitar.  Dave :)
.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Cs4LXRX/0/O/Diabelli_Guitar_Glise.jpg)  (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-bphLpN2/0/O/AnthonyGlise.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-87rdgxh/0/O/StaufferGuitar28.jpg)  (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-j6K4LF2/0/O/CFMartinGuitar1834.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on September 05, 2018, 11:08:49 PM
(https://www.propermusic.com/cache/images/6/e/2/6e226f949bc269b6f269f0760394ad9a.jpg)
This is a pretty horrible recording of what seems like quality music. But I couldn't find an image of an album called The Art of the Vihuela de Arco by the same artist, Fernando Marin. I don't know anything about the Vihuela de Arco. Some kind of relative of the Gamba?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on November 28, 2019, 03:14:30 AM
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/08/imgL/119270527-2.jpg)
I'm enjoying this a lot.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Mandryka on November 28, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
(https://www.propermusic.com/cache/images/6/e/2/6e226f949bc269b6f269f0760394ad9a.jpg)
This is a pretty horrible recording of what seems like quality music. But I couldn't find an image of an album called The Art of the Vihuela de Arco by the same artist, Fernando Marin. I don't know anything about the Vihuela de Arco. Some kind of relative of the Gamba?

I'm not so negative about that recording, the sound of the bow on the string is well captured, almost visceral and sensual for me.  Marin has made several recordings with Nadine Balbeisi which I very much like.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: milk on December 01, 2019, 03:10:27 AM
I'm not so negative about that recording, the sound of the bow on the string is well captured, almost visceral and sensual for me.  Marin has made several recordings with Nadine Balbeisi which I very much like.
i might try that again.  How about that psalterion recording?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 13, 2021, 07:15:46 AM
I have no idea why this thread presented as 'Locked'. I am unlocking it, have a go at it!

Gurn  8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 13, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
Eric Hoeprich - clarinet virtuoso on period instruments, teacher, maker of his own period instruments, and author - brief beginning bio quoted below (see link for more) - astounding career.  I recently purchased the two Crusell CDs shown below (although I own other discs w/ him) - he plays his own personally made period reproduction clarinets on these recordings. Also, wrote the book The Clarinet (Yale University Press, 2008) but is listed at a ridiculous price on Amazon - will do some searching - likely a good read from the comments on Amazon!

SO, if you're into classical clarinet music, especially played on period instruments (restored ones or reproductions), then Hoeprich is worth exploring.  Dave :)

Quote
Eric Hoeprich is one of the world's leading exponents of the historical clarinet. He was born in Baltimore, MD, and has an honors degree in philosophy from Harvard. He teaches at the Paris Conservatoire, Indiana University’s Early Music Institute, and the Royal Conservatory in The Hague. For the past thirty years he has specialized in performing on the historical clarinet. His expertise as a musician, scholar, and instrument maker allows for a unique approach to the solo clarinet repertoire of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. (Source (https://smithsonianchambermusic.org/about/artists/eric-hoeprich))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81PWqVUBjUL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51v6d469vOL.jpg)

(https://rogovoyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Eric-Hoeprich-1857-440x550.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51aiWpvFULL._SX344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 15, 2021, 01:56:46 PM
(https://rogovoyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Eric-Hoeprich-1857-440x550.jpg)

I know nothing about historical clarinets, what's the funny looking clarinet (?) he's holding?
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 15, 2021, 02:15:30 PM
I know nothing about historical clarinets, what's the funny looking clarinet (?) he's holding?

It's a basset clarinet. It was invented in 1788 by Lotz, the premier clarinet maker of his time. It has 2 more (lower) tones than a regular clarinet. Not to be confused with a basset horn. There have been many shapes and sizes since that first one, but they all are the same instrument it terms of range and tone.

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 15, 2021, 02:26:41 PM
I know nothing about historical clarinets, what's the funny looking clarinet (?) he's holding?

Well, that is a form of a basset clarinet (see quote below and check link for a more thorough explanation); basically, plays some lower notes - the classical clarinet player, Anton Stadler inspired Mozart to write some beautiful pieces for the instrument, including his Clarinet Concerto & Quintet - check back in this thread - I'm sure there is further discussion and likely some CD recommendations; but if you are interested in obtaining some recordings of 'historic' basset clarinet playing (as held by Hoeprich), then just ask.  Dave :)

Quote
The basset clarinet is a clarinet similar to the usual soprano clarinet but longer and with additional keys to enable playing several additional lower notes. Typically a basset clarinet has keywork going to a low (written) C or B,[1][2] as opposed to the standard clarinet's E or E♭. The basset clarinet is most commonly a transposing instrument in A, although basset clarinets in C and B♭ and very seldom in G also exist.[3] The similarly named basset horn is also a clarinet with extended lower range, but is in a lower pitch (typically F); the basset horn predates, and undoubtedly inspired, the basset clarinet. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basset_clarinet))
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 15, 2021, 04:22:52 PM
Well, that is a form of a basset clarinet (see quote below and check link for a more thorough explanation); basically, plays some lower notes - the classical clarinet player, Anton Stadler inspired Mozart to write some beautiful pieces for the instrument, including his Clarinet Concerto & Quintet - check back in this thread - I'm sure there is further discussion and likely some CD recommendations; but if you are interested in obtaining some recordings of 'historic' basset clarinet playing (as held by Hoeprich), then just ask.  Dave :)

It's a basset clarinet. It was invented in 1788 by Lotz, the premier clarinet maker of his time. It has 2 more (lower) tones than a regular clarinet. Not to be confused with a basset horn. There have been many shapes and sizes since that first one, but they all are the same instrument it terms of range and tone.

8)

Thank you both!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 16, 2021, 05:48:39 AM
Thanks to Gurn for reopening this thread. Re-reading the entire thing brought back some forgotten memories. Now that I have more time in my retirement, I can focus on some neglected interests. Below is a candidate for my next restoration project with background music provided by zither and cimbalom.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 16, 2021, 05:53:13 AM
I posted this in the "Music and Mail" thread, but I think it deserves a place here.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 16, 2021, 07:39:18 AM
Thanks to Gurn for reopening this thread. Re-reading the entire thing brought back some forgotten memories. Now that I have more time in my retirement, I can focus on some neglected interests. Below is a candidate for my next restoration project with background music provided by zither and cimbalom.

Hi Tony - first, enjoy your entirement!  :)  Second, glad to see some activity in this thread again.  Should be a fun project - good luck!  Dave
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 16, 2021, 02:04:09 PM
Sorry, I'm having trouble finding the post, but to the poster wanting to find a copy of Eric Hoeprich's book on the clarinet, I would suggest contacting Yale University Press directly and asking them whether or not they have more plans on printing more copies of his book.  Also, for example, I wanted to and managed to get a copy of an Oxford University Press book by Michael Kennedy on Vaughan Williams.  It turned out that they have a kind of print-on-demand.  It was a paperback copy for I think $35?

I did see the (Horribly high) amounts asked for online; even if they don't currently have a print-on-demand possibility, I suspect that if they heard more from people interested in this book that they might consider it.  Just a suggestion.

PD

p.s.  The original hard cover copy is listed at $50 and out-of-stock on their website as of now.

Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 16, 2021, 02:25:25 PM
Sorry, I'm having trouble finding the post, but to the poster wanting to find a copy of Eric Hoeprich's book on the clarinet, I would suggest contacting Yale University Press directly and asking them whether or not they have more plans on printing more copies of his book.  Also, for example, I wanted to and managed to get a copy of an Oxford University Press book by Michael Kennedy on Vaughan Williams.  It turned out that they have a kind of print-on-demand.  It was a paperback copy for I think $35?

I did see the (Horribly high) amounts asked for online; even if they don't currently have a print-on-demand possibility, I suspect that if they heard more from people interested in this book that they might consider it.  Just a suggestion.

PD

p.s.  The original hard cover copy is listed at $50 and out-of-stock on their website as of now.

Thanks PD for your comments - I was the one who posted about the book on the clarinet.  I've been to the Yale University Press website and saw the OOP notification and the $50 price - did not leave an email but will do; also Eric Hoeprich has an email address at Indiana University (where he teaches - assume periodically) which I might get his input if he replies?  My wife has gotten me a number of borrowed books in North Carolina by using the inter-library loan options - she's working on it now - we have a lot of musical university programs here and many likely have the book.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 17, 2021, 03:44:50 AM
Thanks PD for your comments - I was the one who posted about the book on the clarinet.  I've been to the Yale University Press website and saw the OOP notification and the $50 price - did not leave an email but will do; also Eric Hoeprich has an email address at Indiana University (where he teaches - assume periodically) which I might get his input if he replies?  My wife has gotten me a number of borrowed books in North Carolina by using the inter-library loan options - she's working on it now - we have a lot of musical university programs here and many likely have the book.  Dave :)
You're welcome!  And let us know how your quest turns out.  :)

PD

p.s.  And isn't inter-library loan great!  And a big hand to all of the librarians working hard to fulfill all of our book/dvd/cd, etc. needs (and a lot of them just being 'wants') during a pandemic!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 29, 2021, 04:39:18 AM
https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-looted-art-dispute-over-guarneri-violin/a-56360977 (https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-looted-art-dispute-over-guarneri-violin/a-56360977)

I saw this article this morning. If only these old instruments could speak, I'm sure they would have some incredible stories to tell (like in the film "The Red Violin")

My violin of choice is a Guarneri model, based on one of his 1727 creations. During my violin restoration phase when I was attempting to find copies of all the major makers, I bumped into someone I knew in a coffee shop. He dealt in antiques and mentioned he had just acquired an instrument I might be interested in. He was right, and it's the one I've played ever since.

I'm glad the violin in the article will continue to be played by young musicians, whatever the outcome. It's a sin that so many excellent instruments go unused, locked away or hung on walls. A former student of mine used to babysit for a family because they had a beautiful grand piano she could practice on when they were gone. (No one in that family played it.)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2021, 05:09:59 AM
https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-looted-art-dispute-over-guarneri-violin/a-56360977 (https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-looted-art-dispute-over-guarneri-violin/a-56360977)

I saw this article this morning. If only these old instruments could speak, I'm sure they would have some incredible stories to tell (like in the film "The Red Violin")

My violin of choice is a Guarneri model, based on one of his 1727 creations. During my violin restoration phase when I was attempting to find copies of all the major makers, I bumped into someone I knew in a coffee shop. He dealt in antiques and mentioned he had just acquired an instrument I might be interested in. He was right, and it's the one I've played ever since.

I'm glad the violin in the article will continue to be played by young musicians, whatever the outcome. It's a sin that so many excellent instruments go unused, locked away or hung on walls. A former student of mine used to babysit for a family because they had a beautiful grand piano she could practice on when they were gone. (No one in that family played it.)
Neat!  Do you know who made the repro and when?  And any sense as to how close in sound it is to the original?  And thank you for the link to that article.  Another heartbreaking story from the Nazi era.

I hope that they are able to settle things soon. I wonder from whom they are trying to get the money to pay the grandchildren?  An insurance company?

Do you do violin repairs as a side-business?

PD
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 29, 2021, 05:34:43 AM
Neat!  Do you know who made the repro and when?  And any sense as to how close in sound it is to the original?  And thank you for the link to that article.  Another heartbreaking story from the Nazi era.

I hope that they are able to settle things soon. I wonder from whom they are trying to get the money to pay the grandchildren?  An insurance company?

Do you do violin repairs as a side-business?

PD

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about my Guarneri repro other than it sounds great. As far as how the originals sounded, we can only imagine.

Regarding the article, I believe they are trying to get the money through donations.

When I was teaching, the school system had a fleet of string instruments for the kids to use. When those that were too severely damaged to make the cost of repair worth it, they were put out of commission. I decide that, since they were never going to be used again otherwise, I'd try to repair them. I did research, learned a lot by trial and error, and eventually took some actual repair workshops.

For a time, I purchased damaged instruments and repaired them for students who couldn't afford new ones. Unfortunately, I'm not skilled enough to be considered an actual luthier.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2021, 05:41:50 AM
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about my Guarneri repro other than it sounds great. As far as how the originals sounded, we can only imagine.

Regarding the article, I believe they are trying to get the money through donations.

When I was teaching, the school system had a fleet of string instruments for the kids to use. When those that were too severely damaged to make the cost of repair worth it, they were put out of commission. I decide that, since they were never going to be used again otherwise, I'd try to repair them. I did research, learned a lot by trial and error, and eventually took some actual repair workshops.

For a time, I purchased damaged instruments and repaired them for students who couldn't afford new ones. Unfortunately, I'm not skilled enough to be considered an actual luthier.
I don't know much about the reproduction market.  Any sense of how many copies have been made say of certain well-loved/popular violins there are out there?

That was very generous of you to try and learn how to repair instruments and for helping out your students like that!  :)  I've heard (for years) about the decline in offerings for music classes and many schools struggling to buy instruments for their students.  :(

PD
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 29, 2021, 06:08:18 AM
I don't know much about the reproduction market.  Any sense of how many copies have been made say of certain well-loved/popular violins there are out there?

That was very generous of you to try and learn how to repair instruments and for helping out your students like that!  :)  I've heard (for years) about the decline in offerings for music classes and many schools struggling to buy instruments for their students.  :(

PD

The vast majority of student violins being made now and over the years (certainly numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not greater) are Stradivarius copies. It's not unusual for an unaware individual to find one in an attic or antique shop with a label that says "Stradivarius" and think they have discovered a valuable treasure!
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2021, 06:17:15 AM
The vast majority of student violins being made now and over the years (certainly numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not greater) are Stradivarius copies. It's not unusual for an unaware individual to find one in an attic or antique shop with a label that says "Stradivarius" and think they have discovered a valuable treasure!
Unless they had a relative who was a very famous violinist, probably not!  ;)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: (: premont :) on January 29, 2021, 06:48:52 AM
The vast majority of student violins being made now and over the years (certainly numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not greater) are Stradivarius copies.

But I suppose they are not true historically informed baroque copies.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Szykneij on January 29, 2021, 07:21:58 AM
But I suppose they are not true historically informed baroque copies.

Correct. For one thing, the necks of the originals were different than those required for more modern playing techniques. At some point during the 19th century, grafts were used to increase the neck length and angle of older instruments. I believe every genuine Strad in existence underwent that process at some point.
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Gurn Blanston on January 29, 2021, 07:23:51 AM
But I suppose they are not true historically informed baroque copies.

No, certainly they are merely fiddle-shaped pieces of wood with modern conformation. Of course, this is not a new phenomenon, I have my grandfather's old violin which was built in the 19th century and it also proudly displays a Strad label. It is modern in every significant way. :)

8)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 29, 2021, 08:22:54 AM
Thanks Tony for the discussion and the link - Dave :)
Title: Re: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2021, 12:08:44 PM
Correct. For one thing, the necks of the originals were different than those required for more modern playing techniques. At some point during the 19th century, grafts were used to increase the neck length and angle of older instruments. I believe every genuine Strad in existence underwent that process at some point.
Oh, interesting!  I found this blog about some of the changes made.  http://blog.feinviolins.com/2015/06/your-violin-neck-used-to-be-shorter.html

PD