GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Michel on May 31, 2007, 01:14:26 PM

Title: Erik Satie
Post by: Michel on May 31, 2007, 01:14:26 PM
Isn't he great!

I've been listening to nothing else for days as i haven't heard him before.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on May 31, 2007, 01:25:26 PM
He is great, indeed, though more for what he opened up (not just to Debussy, Ravel, Poulenc and the Arceuil school but also, even, to John Cage, who he influenced deeply), than for his music. There are, probably, only a few really, truly strong pieces (Socrate, the Nocturnes, Sports et Divertissements, Pieces en forme de poire, and actually the famous earlier pieces too - Gymnopedies, Gnossiennes, Sarabandes). However, I wouldn't willingly exchange these ones for anything.

He's a fascinating figure, much misunderstood, and admirable on a personal level in so many ways (witness his going back to the conservatoire in all humility at a late age; in general witness the strength of character that enabled him to live the life he did, isolated in Arceuil). Also among the most anecdote-ridden of composers! Get hold of Rollo Myers' old biography. It's the only one I've read, it may be superceded by later ones, but it comes from very close to the source and feels genuine and passionate.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mark on May 31, 2007, 01:29:59 PM
Didn't he get seven suits of clothes made, all in yellow, so he could wear one every day of the week?

I agree, btw, great music.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Choo Choo on May 31, 2007, 01:30:47 PM
What of his have you been listening to, Michel?

There's an ultracheap VoxBox with not-bad performances of most of the "name" works - including my nomination for what has to be about the cheeriest piece of music extant: La belle excentrique (a music-hall dance suite).
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Solitary Wanderer on May 31, 2007, 01:38:18 PM
Yep, count me as a fan too.

I only have one disc being a comp performed by Ronan O'Hora.

I usually spin this disk on a sunday afternoon as its very relaxing  :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: SimonGodders on May 31, 2007, 01:48:13 PM
The most gorgeously played Gymnopedie No. 1 is to be found on this fantastic disc (amongst other delights):

http://www.amazon.com/Naida-Cole-Emmanuel-Chabrier/dp/B000058TAN/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-5908801-4745533?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1180652284&sr=8-2
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: karlhenning on May 31, 2007, 02:26:53 PM
Socrate!
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on June 01, 2007, 03:45:36 AM
Socrate!
dude...

(http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/Albion/Annotations/Albion4/billandted.jpg)

I find it hard to read Karl's pithy exclamation without being reminded of this seminal work of modern cinema
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 01, 2007, 04:29:31 AM
I am another big fan of Satie. I love everything I have heard from him.

Queffelec, Roge are great interpreters.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Hector on June 01, 2007, 05:04:01 AM
The most gorgeously played Gymnopedie No. 1 is to be found on this fantastic disc (amongst other delights):

http://www.amazon.com/Naida-Cole-Emmanuel-Chabrier/dp/B000058TAN/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-5908801-4745533?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1180652284&sr=8-2

One piece of Satie. :'(

However, I cannot wait to hear Gospard de le nuit. Is it the gospard according to Gaspard, do you know?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2007, 05:05:18 AM
Quefflec

Looks like a slangy Canadian indelicacy  8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 14, 2007, 02:04:57 PM
Need to bump up this thread.
 :-*
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 14, 2007, 02:53:04 PM
Need to bump up this thread.
 :-*

 8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Kullervo on June 14, 2007, 06:13:36 PM
Need to bump up this thread.
 :-*

Why?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Symphonien on June 14, 2007, 10:43:51 PM
Why?

Because no-one else seems to like Satie.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Hector on June 15, 2007, 03:29:33 AM
Because no-one else seems to like Satie.

Perhaps he should have changed his name to Bruckner, there would be pages and pages, by now!
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Kullervo on June 15, 2007, 04:25:46 AM
This thread is pretty similar to a piece by Satie -- it's very short and nothing important is being said.  >:D
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 15, 2007, 04:28:07 AM
This thread is pretty similar to a piece by Satie -- it's very short and nothing important is being said.  >:D

Satie's pieces may be short, but every second seems like a year when listening to them.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Hector on June 15, 2007, 04:40:17 AM
Satie's pieces may be short, but every second seems like a year when listening to them.

Unlike Wagner, of course, where every minute seems like a millenium (I know he would approve, though).
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 15, 2007, 04:42:57 AM
Unlike Wagner, of course, where every minute seems like a millenium (I know he would approve, though).

Especially if Reginald Goodall is conducting. Then it becomes interminable.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 05:27:58 AM
Later, at a different time, which is not this time, I shall upload some Satie for you all.

So you can bask. Bask in the glory.

Also, why not pump up this thread. It isn't as if this forum is a madhouse of posting.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2007, 05:52:44 AM
Satie's pieces may be short, but every second seems like a year when listening...

Unlike Wagner, of course, where every minute seems like a millenium...

Here's the millenium Satie:

http://rapidshare.com/files/37361553/Gnossiennes1.mp3.html

Reinbert De Leeuw is the Celibidache of the keyboard.

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 05:59:43 AM
Here's the millenium Satie:

http://rapidshare.com/files/37361553/Gnossiennes1.mp3.html

Reinbert De Leeuw is the Celibidache of the keyboard.

Sarge

I'll surely download that tonight.
Thanks.
 :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2007, 06:06:26 AM
I'll surely download that tonight.
Thanks.
 :)

It is really slow but I think it's absolutely gorgeous.

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 06:07:53 AM
It is really slow but I think it's absolutely gorgeous.

Sarge

I'm sure to enjoy it.

One piece of Satie that is always played to slow, and I think detracts from the work, is Vexations. Played at its proper speed it is even more maddening, if you can imagine that.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2007, 06:16:14 AM
I'm sure to enjoy it.

One piece of Satie that is always played to slow, and I think detracts from the work, is Vexations. Played at its proper speed it is even more maddening, if you can imagine that.

I've only one version, Ciccolini. How does his speed compare?

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 06:17:07 AM
I've only one version, Ciccolini. How does his speed compare?

Sarge

I believe that he is still slow.
Isn't he around 1 minute 30 seconds?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 15, 2007, 06:36:10 AM
Here's the millenium Satie:

http://rapidshare.com/files/37361553/Gnossiennes1.mp3.html

Reinbert De Leeuw is the Celibidache of the keyboard.

Sarge

He sure is a taffy puller alright.

Sounds the the work of a Heroin addict about to nod.  ::)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2007, 06:47:03 AM
He sure is a taffy puller alright.

Sounds the the work of a Heroin addict about to nod.  ::)

I don't hear it that way but I understand you. I'd never recommend this CD to anyone as a first choice but it's a valid and interesting alternative view of the music, I think. I like it anyway  :)

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2007, 06:53:06 AM
I believe that he is still slow.
Isn't he around 1 minute 30 seconds?

1:19

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 15, 2007, 06:54:53 AM
I don't hear it that way but I understand you. I'd never recommend this CD to anyone as a first choice but it's a valid and interesting alternative view of the music, I think. I like it anyway  :)

Sarge

Sorry, I though we were dissing him. I need to listen again later with fresh ears. I just missed those playful rhythms at his tempo. That was my main concern.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 06:56:01 AM
1:19

Sarge

Quicker than most, but still 19 seconds too slow.

Below is a link to my topic on the old forum. It has some great links within.
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2996.0.html

 :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 15, 2007, 07:01:22 AM
Quicker than most, but still 19 seconds too slow.

Below is a link to my topic on the old forum. It has some great links within.
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2996.0.html

 :)

Philo, are you Watt or Whoroscope?  :-\
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 07:15:44 AM
Philo, are you Watt or Whoroscope?  :-\

Both.

Also, The Chairs, Arcanum, and I am sure some other screen names that I cannot recall at this moment.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: BachQ on June 15, 2007, 07:18:57 AM
My thirst for Satie is ......... inSatieable .........
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2007, 07:40:12 AM
Sorry, I though we were dissing him. I need to listen again later with fresh ears. I just missed those playful rhythms at his tempo. That was my main concern.

Oh sorry about that, George. No, I wasn't dissing Leeuw. I like Celibidache so if I say someone is like him it's a good thing to me. I should have realized, though, it's going to have negative connotations for a lot of people. Should have clarified what I meant. But really, it's okay if don't like it. You can even hate it. You have my permission  :)

Actually, now that I think about it, your drug reference fits pretty well. It does have an exaggerated, trippy quality to it. Time artificially altered.

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 15, 2007, 07:49:25 AM
Oh sorry about that, George. No, I wasn't dissing Leeuw. I like Celibidache so if I say someone is like him it's a good thing to me. I should have realized, though, it's going to have negative connotations for a lot of people. Should have clarified what I meant. But really, it's okay if don't like it. You can even hate it. You have my permission  :)

Thanks.  :)  I think I just realized that it can sometimes be just as easy to like something as it is to not like on it, simly based on whatever preconceptions one brings to the table.

Quote
Actually, now that I think about it, your drug reference fits pretty well. It does have an exaggerated, trippy quality to it. Time artificially altered.

Sarge

(http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/cotoplo_emoticon.gif)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 08:15:46 AM
Thanks.  :)  I think I just realized that it can sometimes be just as easy to like something as it is to not like on it, simly based on whatever preconceptions one brings to the table.

(http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/cotoplo_emoticon.gif)

Quite so, but as you may know, or not, I nearly almost always tend towards the more intereting recordings, this is in general, not just specific to Satie.

Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 15, 2007, 09:01:54 AM
Quite so, but as you may know, or not, I nearly almost always tend towards the more intereting recordings, this is in general, not just specific to Satie.



You'll love Maria Yudina, then. Have you heard her?  :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 15, 2007, 10:03:49 AM
You'll love Maria Yudina, then. Have you heard her?  :)

Of course. I love her. Have her in some Bach and Beethoven.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 15, 2007, 12:25:33 PM
Of course. I love her. Have her in some Bach and Beethoven.

Me too.  8)

Just got Ciccolini's early 2CD set of Satie today on sale.  :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 18, 2007, 07:15:43 AM
Me too.  8)

Just got Ciccolini's early 2CD set of Satie today on sale.  :)

Splendid, though at times I find his apprach a bit too percussive.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on June 18, 2007, 10:04:35 AM
Splendid, though at times I find his apprach a bit too percussive.

IIRC, you have the later recordings, right?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on June 18, 2007, 10:16:00 AM
IIRC, you have the later recordings, right?

No idea of the date.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mark on September 17, 2007, 12:09:32 PM
Been listening to some Satie this evening.

Laying aside his famous Gnossiennes and Gymnopedies, I found his output bewildering. I couldn't decide if, through his music, he was laughing at his listeners, or genuinely engaged in loving acts of artistic creation. 'Was he mad?', I asked myself?

I couldn't answer ... so I'm asking you lot instead.

Satie. What do you make of him?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Catison on September 17, 2007, 12:47:19 PM
In a word, I think he was John Cage before John Cage.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mark on September 17, 2007, 12:48:16 PM
In a word, I think he was John Cage before John Cage.

That's nine words. You're as bad as Satie.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: orbital on September 17, 2007, 12:54:11 PM
There is lots of humor in his piano works, but the only piece of joke I've encountered with him is Socrate. Perhaps I have to listen to it a few hundred times in order to laugh with him, but for now I don't get the joke  ::)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Catison on September 17, 2007, 01:26:44 PM
That's nine words. You're as bad as Satie.

Oh come on, can't I use some Britishisms.  It depends what the meaning of 'a' is.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mark on September 17, 2007, 01:59:30 PM
Oh come on, can't I use some Britishisms.  It depends what the meaning of 'a' is.

Feel free to use all the English turns of phrase you wish, my friend. :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Don on September 17, 2007, 02:30:37 PM
I find Satie's music very interesting in an off-the-wall manner.  I have about 30 Satie recordings; just one would not be sufficient.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: BachQ on September 17, 2007, 02:33:42 PM
I find some of Satie's music to be vexatious ........
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 17, 2007, 02:36:19 PM
I find Satie enormously fascinating and one of the most rewarding and to-my-mind aesthetically sound of composers - 'la musique pauvre': a tenet which I wish more composers would follow, personally. He's one of those composer I have a peculiar penchant for - full of musical imperfections, to extreme degrees in his case - but so humble and human. The jokes and eccentricities are important, but are surface manifestations of something more profound, which is what Cage sensed in him.

There is lots of humor in his piano works, but the only piece of joke I've encountered with him is Socrate. Perhaps I have to listen to it a few hundred times in order to laugh with him, but for now I don't get the joke  ::)

I really couldn't disagree more with this statement. Socrate is, by far, Satie's most serious work, generally and rightly held o be his masterpiece. I see no humour in it, just utterly original (and obviously, still shocking) music of great and refined beauty. On another thread I see that Mark has put Satie down as a 'you only need one CD' composer. I'd respectfully disagree - the essential Satie, as I see it, comprises at the very least

Gymnopedies (and not in Debussy's travesty of an orchestration)
Gnossiennes
Sarabandes
Trois Morceaux en forme de poire
Messe des Pauvres
Sports et divertissements
Airs a faire fuir + Danses de travers
Parade (though it's not really for me)

and above all

Nocturnes
Socrate.

That is more than a disc's worth, by my reckoning!
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Holden on September 17, 2007, 11:20:55 PM
Satie was both 'mad' and a humorist IMO and I love his piano music. He had a tendency to take the piss out of the more pompous side of classical piano music while producing some telling works of his own.

Probably the most revealing comments I've ever heard about Satie came from a 12 year old boy at one of the schools I taught at. Chris, who was definitely autistic spectrum disorder affected, just loved Satie. He became emotionally animated about something intangible when we discussed Satie's music. Apart from that his (probably Aspergers) psyche ruled. Erik Satie's music spoke directly to this boy and considering Satie's life this is no surprise.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Scriptavolant on September 18, 2007, 08:31:14 AM
There are artists which I tend to admire beyond their artistical achievements (not despite their artistical achievements). Satie is one of those, along with Debussy, Cage, Malipiero and others; each artist who has the guts to challenge fruitfully, of course, the Academy and the conception of Art as a blessed Sacrament that can't be enjoyed but with stately seriousness deserves all my appreciation.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: orbital on September 18, 2007, 11:19:23 AM

I really couldn't disagree more with this statement. Socrate is, by far, Satie's most serious work, generally and rightly held o be his masterpiece. I see no humour in it, just utterly original (and obviously, still shocking) music of great and refined beauty.

That's the premiseon which  I got the recording pretty recently. All the comments pointed this piece to be his best. It failed to impress me yet, but I may need to listen to it more. It is very different from his piano music, perhaps that's why I could not connect.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 18, 2007, 01:04:44 PM
That's the premiseon which  I got the recording pretty recently. All the comments pointed this piece to be his best. It failed to impress me yet, but I may need to listen to it more. It is very different from his piano music, perhaps that's why I could not connect.

It isn't that different from his piano Nocturnes, though, which are contemporaneous with it (both Socrate and the Nocturnes are practically Satie's last music). The Nocturnes are generally thought to be among Satie's very finest pieces too - absolute serious, totally abstract music, with a straightforward title and no textual allusions, mystical or comical. The new thing for Satie, in these pieces, is the coolness of the harmony - lots of parallel fourths etc, harking back to his interest in Medieval music, and few of the sensuous sevenths etc. which characterise the Sarabandes, Gymnopedies, Gnossiennes and other early piano pieces, nor the seemingly random streams of harmony which make up some of his Rose+Croix works. The gestural language, though, is similar in some respects to the earlier pieces. In both Socrate and the Nocturnes there is this very appealing distancing - the music floats by, undemonstrative but never less than beautiful. In Socrate, even the most dramatic moments are narrated gently, not pointed up at all, and that, of course, makes them all the more touching.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2008, 04:48:49 AM
The much misunderstood and underestimated Satie is one of my very favourite composers, even if only for a very small number of works. But I'd never seen this (http://www.ubu.com/film/clair_entracte.html) before - it's at Ubuweb, but there is no link from their Satie folder to this one, or I'd missed it if there was, so I'd hadn't seen this until yesterday.

The link takes you to a page where you can view or download Entr'acte, the Rene Clair film which formed part of the ballet Relache, for which Satie wrote the music. At the beginning of the film (not part of Entr'acte itself, actually) you can see Satie and Picabia bouncing around the roof of the theatre and firing a cannon.... ;D
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: karlhenning on September 04, 2008, 05:29:31 AM
You don't see many composers these days with such bounce.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2008, 05:43:48 AM
Not so much Gymnopedist as gymnast, obviously.

The rest of the film contains quite a few visual treats, too. Worth sticking around for, maybe.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: karlhenning on September 04, 2008, 06:32:42 AM
I'm going to watch it again (i.e., properly) from home . . . possibly this weekend . . . .
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Kullervo on September 04, 2008, 06:37:18 AM
I must admit that when I read the thread title I thought you were referring to this (http://www.grotrian.de/spiel/e/info.html), but the film is even better. Thanks!
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 04, 2008, 12:12:49 PM
The much misunderstood and underestimated Satie is one of my very favourite composers...

Mine too -- now. 4-5 years ago I would deride him for some of those down-and-out feelings his music engenders (I'm slowly learning to stop doing this, by the way  ::) ). It wasn't until the very beginning of this year that I started to appreciate his music, to realise that it had a lot of depth of feeling and wasn't just something simple and maudlin, and I came to grips with it in large part thanks to a very beautiful film which uses several of his piano pieces: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwYNiRaeJEA

Ubuweb is great huh? There are some very special videos on that site. This particular film I saw a few months ago during Tate Modern's Duchamp, Man Ray, Picabia exhibit which gave me a new and very rewarding appreciation of Duchamp's early career as a painter -- some marvelous work, quite breathtaking, and as the exhibit progressed I felt strongly that I was looking at a genius going through life as it should be lived. The exhibition ended with an inspiring (or I suppose depressing for some) quote by him: ‘Each second, each breath is a work which is inscribed nowhere.’ Anyway I mention this only because all 3 appear within the film.

I've never heard any of Satie's music outside of the piano. Does it carry a similar lugubrious/despondent feeling? I suppose there's more to Satie's piano music than just that, but that's what I listen to it for.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2008, 12:22:53 PM
This exquisite disc, containing his masterpiece Socrate and some of his songs, including three very early ones which share a lot with those early 'sets of three' piano pieces in which all three are very similar (Gymnopedies, Gnossiennes, Airs a fair fuir, Pieces froides etc. etc). But IMO these songs are more unearthly than any of those, incredible though it may seem.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516xsOowRUL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

But hang on a while before clicking on 'buy'

have you checked out the Ubuweb Satie page? The piano pieces arranged for guitar (http://www.ubu.com/sound/satie_guitare.html) there are so, so much better than one would think - not pretty hotel lounge muzak but steely, intense and very human playing.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 04, 2008, 12:34:42 PM
Thanks for that Luke. Both CD and page are new to me, I will play through the guitar music this evening. Cheers
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2008, 12:35:51 PM
I love what Kyle Gann has to say here (http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2006/11/willing_one_thing.html) too. It includes a link to mp3s of the songs he discusses.

I'll try to have something available for you to listen to later tonight...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 06, 2008, 03:22:42 AM
Forgot this one, Tony:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mbGWJ0%2BHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

For the type of Satie you describe, I can't imagine better. De Leeuw gives us more than 2 discs worth of Satie's early piano music - that means that among other thing it is missing the late Nocturnes, contemporaneous with Socrate and probably his finest piano music. But everything that is there is a gem. It's no 'best of Satie' collection, but essentially it ismost of the Satie which doesn't require knowledge of the composer's sardonic little asides and stories (no dried-out embryos here, no sports and divertisments, even though the latter certainly count among his very best music). You're left with the Satie that you describe loving - not just the obvious pieces but lesser-known ones too, all available elsewhere but rarely in such spellbinding performances as de Leeuw gives here. And that's really the point - this music is easy to play, easy to make an effect with, but it takes a special recording to go the extra distance, and de Leeuw's sensitive and slower-than-usual readings certainly manage to do so. The third disc is mostly made up of Satie's songs, which contain some wondrous little gems and are performed as sensitively as one can imagine here. There's a free bonus disc too, a DVD of a film imagining a meeting between Satie and Suzanne Valadon 17 years after their affair ended. A strange thing, full of acrobats doing controtions around a Paris bar - but certainly atmospheric..
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 06, 2008, 08:35:40 AM
slower than usual :) Okay okay, no need to send me into a drooling stupor Luke, I'm convinced :) I will buy this for sure. The popular Ciccolini recordings on EMI are often recommended, apparently he recorded them twice, I don't really know either one but what I've heard on Youtube isn't so appealing. The Satie piano music I know so far I prefer to hear played slowly, in a way almost mechanically with a rather strict beat. I haven't quite warmed to the free-fllowing approach, as in the (very nice) video below, thoug I may in time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGbYRAfQYF8
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 06, 2008, 08:40:10 AM
slower than usual :) Okay okay, no need to send me into a drooling stupor Luke, I'm convinced :) I will buy this for sure. The popular Ciccolini recordings on EMI are often recommended, apparently he recorded them twice, I don't really know either one but what I've heard on Youtube isn't so appealing. The Satie piano music I know so far I prefer to hear played slowly, in a way almost mechanically with a rather strict beat. I haven't quite warmed to the free-fllowing approach, as in the (very nice) video below, thoug I may in time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGbYRAfQYF8

Hmm, the de Leeuw is slow, as I said, but he does take a pretty free approach to the beat very often. There's a huge rubato at times - most notably, perhaps, in the Gnossiennes, which open the first disc. This might not suit you - but you won't know till you've tried!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 06, 2008, 08:50:37 AM
I suspect I'll like it, that's usually the sort of thing I want to hear in piano interpretation, I think you've nailed it. I'm just not familiar with it yet with Satie, so I suppose it's a unique interpretation of this music?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Drasko on September 06, 2008, 11:20:07 AM
slower than usual :) Okay okay, no need to send me into a drooling stupor Luke, I'm convinced :) I will buy this for sure. The popular Ciccolini recordings on EMI are often recommended, apparently he recorded them twice, I don't really know either one but what I've heard on Youtube isn't so appealing.

Cicollini's first traversal is the the fastest around, de Leeuw is the other extreme, everybody else is somewhere in between (including Ciccolini's digital cycle).

What would be recommendable orchestral version of Socrate? There are some impressive names available, like Jean-Paul Fouchecourt or Suzanne Danco with Milhaud conducting, no less.

http://classique.abeillemusique.com/produit.php?cle=12118

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000009KK8


Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 06, 2008, 11:31:19 AM
I have three orchestral Socrates, and two with piano. Of the orchestral ones:

One is an early recording - Leibowitz in 1952. It's very much of its time, vocally - I like it enormously, but I don't return to it as much as the other two, which are:

A recording cond. Dervaux in 1972. The soloists here (including Mady Mesple) are somewhat easier on the ear - this is a great, idiomatic performance all round, but it's marred by faulty indexing on my CD. As it was my first disc of Socrate, I initially thought (with some disbelief!) that the piece started with the perky little march that begins the track - but soon realised (and track times confirmed) that the march is actually the end of the previous item, Les aventures de Mercure.

The last orchestral recording I have at present is fairly modern - Music Projects London/Bernas, sopranos Eileen Hulse, Susan Bickley and Patricia Rosario. It's the main work on the first disc I recommended above. This is my favourite at the moment - light voices just as Satie requires, good sonics, sensitive orchestral playing. All round, that's a very fine disc - first issued on Factory Classical (http://cerysmaticfactory.info/fac356.html), of all places.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Drasko on September 06, 2008, 12:35:37 PM

The last orchestral recording I have at present is fairly modern - Music Projects London/Bernas, sopranos Eileen Hulse, Susan Bickley and Patricia Rosario. It's the main work on the first disc I recommended above. This is my favourite at the moment - light voices just as Satie requires, good sonics, sensitive orchestral playing. All round, that's a very fine disc - first issued on Factory Classical (http://cerysmaticfactory.info/fac356.html), of all places.


Aha, I somehow initailly managed to misread that to be piano accompanied version. Ok then, that'll be the one, thanks! 
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 07, 2008, 08:21:50 AM
the de Leeuw is slow

holy shit what is he doing??? haha
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 07, 2008, 08:22:54 AM
You see what I mean!  ;D An acquired taste - have you acquired it?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 07, 2008, 08:27:50 AM
I just turned it on Luke  :o I will have to see how it goes down with a shot of something or other before I make a decision  ;D It's certainly unique. Does the score allow for such breadth and, uh, creativity?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: lukeottevanger on September 07, 2008, 08:36:11 AM
I just turned it on Luke  :o I will have to see how it goes down with a shot of something or other before I make a decision  ;D It's certainly unique. Does the score allow for such breadth and, uh, creativity?

To put it briefly, yes, it does.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: ezodisy on September 07, 2008, 08:40:09 AM
Thanks. Not that I would mind at all if it didn't, as I think a lot of the readings I like are often labelled as "overly creative", so to speak. It's certainly very sensitive. The music for me is all bound up with Le Feu Follet so I'll have to get adjusted to it without the visuals...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on July 04, 2010, 02:51:49 AM
(http://jazzymas.com/oscommerce/images/satie.erik.0028947362029.jpg)

Really good stuff, here. Maybe even better than my favorite for Satie, Roge.

Anyone else heard this?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 04, 2010, 03:13:10 AM
holy shit what is he doing??? haha

Playing the music just for me   ;D ;)

(http://jazzymas.com/oscommerce/images/satie.erik.0028947362029.jpg)
Anyone else heard this?

I haven't. My Satie collection consists basically of the alpha and omega of Satie interpretation: Ciccolini and Leeuw. Also have one disc each from John McCabe and Anne Queffélec.

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on July 05, 2010, 05:39:04 AM
Historically, Satie was very important and a big influence on other French composers of the day, but his music isn't remotely interesting at least to me.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on July 05, 2010, 09:05:03 AM
For the piano music one cannot over recommend Jean-Joel Barbier.

Have you heard both of these issues?

En Blanc et Noir (Jean-Joël Barbier) [2005]

Œuvres pour Piano (Jean-Joël Barbier) [1985]

I am curious if one sounds any better than the other. They have the same tracklisting.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Drasko on July 05, 2010, 09:53:51 AM
It is not - I repeat, it is not - with the Capitole Toulouse that Markevitch recorded Parade, however. It is with the Kolner Rundfunk Sinfonieorchester: a most un-satiesque of name, if you want the honest to goodness truth on the matter.

Markevitch's studio recording of Parade is with Philharmonia (acceptably satiesque name for an orchestra in my opinion) for EMI, now on Testament. Koln recording is just one of many live Markevitch recordings of the piece from various radio archives, where German radios seem most diligent -  there are also recordings with Berlin Radio Orchestra on Urania, NDR Sinfonieorchester Hamburg on EMI ...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on July 05, 2010, 09:55:50 AM
What I have are the 4cd box released by Accord/Universal in 2002, and volume one of the earlier Accord series, released in 1990. One cannot compare the two as the box set was recorded between 1969 and 1971, while the white covered Accord CD was recorded in 1963. I prefer the earlier recording.

Thanks.

I haven't seen the 1963 recording anywhere. Can you tell which works are on the CD?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on July 05, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
I've had to go to the other side of the world to find where to copy and paste the listings:

 
 1 - Prélude De La Porte Héroïque Du Ciel 
 2 - Poudre D'or 
 3 - Aperçus Désagréablex 
 4 - En Habit De Cheval 
 5 - Heures Séculaires Et Instantanées 
 6 - Cinq Nocturnes 
 7 - Premier Menuet 
 8 - Fête Donnée Par Des Chevaliers Normands 
 9 - Passacaille 10 - Songe Creux
 10 - Songe creux 
 11 - Prélude En Tapisserie 
 12 - Nouvelles Pièces Froides 13 - Deux Rêveries Nocturnes
 13 - Deux rêveries nocturnes 
 14 - Préludes Flasques "pour Un Chien" 

(volume 4, not 1)

Thanks very much.  :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: The new erato on July 05, 2010, 12:19:04 PM
Not very illuminating, but just to make you envious; I visited Satie's birthplace and home in Honfleur this summer!  :D
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: jowcol on July 06, 2010, 01:16:29 AM
Historically, Satie was very important and a big influence on other French composers of the day, but his music isn't remotely interesting at least to me.

I don't think Satie knocked them out of the park as consistently as a Debussy or a Ravel, and I've had trouble getting through all of the "complete piano music", but there are some works of his (mostly solo piano) that I love to distraction. As a personality and mentor, I find him fascinating.

But, as they say, YMMV.  (Your mileage my vary...)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 16, 2010, 08:07:04 AM
Well might as well bring this thread TTT!  :D

Several days ago, I received the 5-CD box of Jean-Yves Thibaudet's performances of Satie's Piano Music - this morning listening to the final discs; in the past I've had only single & double-CDs of many of the older (and some newer) performances of these works, so wanted to give a more recent and complete set a try.  My past experience w/ Thibaudet was his single-disc release of some of Satie's more popular works which I've enjoyed for years; now I've culled out many past CDs in my collection, and just have the 2-disc set below w/ Reinbert de Leeuw, an interpretation that stands alone (and one that I do like).

Satie's piano music is quirky, varied, and with a scale of listening patience that has a wide range for me at least; many of the works are calm and beautiful, and others more raucous, angular, and dynamic, so I can take him in both large and small doses (reflecting the thoughts from the previous post here).  Overall, this is quite a good set offered at a bargain (at least on the Amazon MP), well packaged (5 discs in a 2-CD jewel box), and with decent liner notes.  For a rather fun review, see the attached 2004 comments of Jerry Dubins which appeared in Fanfare - so looking forward to some updated posts to this thread -  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/SatieThibaudet/1127666019_UiZrh-O.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/SatieLeeuw/937489428_eqB2Y-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 16, 2010, 02:02:10 PM
For a rather fun review, see the attached 2004 comments of Jerry Dubins which appeared in Fanfare - so looking forward to some updated posts to this thread -  :D

Thanks for Dubins review, Dave.

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Brian on April 08, 2011, 04:56:14 AM
From stand-up comedian Patton Oswalt's Twitter account:
"Satie playing in this cafe. I've got stuff to do but now I want to sit with my coffee & look tragic."
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on September 06, 2011, 03:36:18 PM
I'm not sure this is the proper thread for this, but does anyone have any recommendations for Satie's solo piano music? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Luke on September 08, 2011, 08:44:10 AM
I'm not sure this is the proper thread for this, but does anyone have any recommendations for Satie's solo piano music? Thanks in advance.

Sorry if this is a late response, I haven't read on and seen if anyone else has answered this yet, and maybe you are already satisfied, but I have to say this:

de Leeuw, de Leeuw, de Leeuw. His discs of the early piano music are one of my favourite recordings of anything ever (and don't worry about missing the later stuff, with the exception of the wonderful Nocturnes it works better in the flesh than on CD). De Leeuw is slow, hypnotically, flagrantly and fragrantly slow, with the most incredible inner poise and pace I have ever heard, anywhere. It's an extreme recording, highly atmospherc, not to all tastes, but even though I have lots of Satie recordings and play all the music myself too, I never listen to anyone else. If possible get the 3 disc + free DVD edition which includes a ravishing disc of Satie songs (also by far the best recording I've heard of them, and I have a few). The Three Early Songs, hardly recorded, only recently added to IMSLP (thank goodness - http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a1/IMSLP92029-PMLP189356-Satie_-_3_M__lodies_de_1886__voice_and_piano_.pdf) are exquisite, wonderful gems in the Gymnopedie/Gnossienne line, and to me it is as if they crystalise the one whole facet of the French melodie tradition (Faure, Debussy, Ravel etc) in three wondrous miniatures.

(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/260/260147_1_f.jpg)
To me, that set is one of the central treasures in my collection.

Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sandra on September 11, 2011, 09:19:02 AM
The Three Early Songs, hardly recorded, only recently added to IMSLP (thank goodness - http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a1/IMSLP92029-PMLP189356-Satie_-_3_M__lodies_de_1886__voice_and_piano_.pdf) are exquisite, wonderful gems in the Gymnopedie/Gnossienne line, and to me it is as if they crystalise the one whole facet of the French melodie tradition (Faure, Debussy, Ravel etc) in three wondrous miniatures.


Wow! I listened to these and watched the score several times. They are really beautiful! Easy to sing (even I could sing them with my extremely modest French) but very elegant and pretty. The piano accompaniment couldn't be any simpler. It just harps out chords. So anyone singing these could easily accompany herself.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Muzition on September 11, 2011, 09:57:37 AM
I find an odd thing about Satie and Debussy.  People tend to like either one composer or the other, but not both.  People tend to be a "Satie person" or a "Debussy person."

Does anyone else seem to see this, or is it just my imagination?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: karlhenning on September 11, 2011, 01:20:59 PM
Satie's music is so peculiar, once you have absorbed it the music of others becomes too foreign for your nervous system to absorb.

Oh, I doubt very much that this is the case.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on February 01, 2012, 08:12:24 AM
why am I bumping?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on February 01, 2012, 08:30:30 AM
just something besides the Brian Thread,... ahhhhhhhh ???
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on May 14, 2012, 04:57:42 AM
why am I bumping?

... I keep asking myself...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on May 14, 2012, 04:58:17 AM
Who likes de Leeuw here? Is he really really slow and meditative?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 14, 2012, 05:30:09 AM
Who likes de Leeuw here? Is he really really slow and meditative?

Sorry if this is a late response, I haven't read on and seen if anyone else has answered this yet, and maybe you are already satisfied, but I have to say this:

de Leeuw, de Leeuw, de Leeuw. His discs of the early piano music are one of my favourite recordings of anything ever (and don't worry about missing the later stuff, with the exception of the wonderful Nocturnes it works better in the flesh than on CD). De Leeuw is slow, hypnotically, flagrantly and fragrantly slow, with the most incredible inner poise and pace I have ever heard, anywhere. It's an extreme recording, highly atmospherc, not to all tastes, but even though I have lots of Satie recordings and play all the music myself too, I never listen to anyone else. If possible get the 3 disc + free DVD edition which includes a ravishing disc of Satie songs (also by far the best recording I've heard of them, and I have a few). The Three Early Songs, hardly recorded, only recently added to IMSLP (thank goodness - http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a1/IMSLP92029-PMLP189356-Satie_-_3_M__lodies_de_1886__voice_and_piano_.pdf) are exquisite, wonderful gems in the Gymnopedie/Gnossienne line, and to me it is as if they crystalise the one whole facet of the French melodie tradition (Faure, Debussy, Ravel etc) in three wondrous miniatures.

(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/260/260147_1_f.jpg)
To me, that set is one of the central treasures in my collection.

(I like de Leeuw, too, only Luke is far more eloquent here.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on May 14, 2012, 05:33:56 AM
(I like de Leeuw, too, only Luke is far more eloquent here.

drooling :P
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 14, 2012, 05:55:04 AM
(I like de Leeuw, too, only Luke is far more eloquent here.

Ditto

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: DieNacht on May 14, 2012, 06:08:02 AM
Same here; De Leeuw is unique and great in Satie. Nobody plays the works like him, an ultra-personal performance style probably very far from Satie´s own days, but extremely interesting and thoughtful.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Ten thumbs on May 14, 2012, 11:43:20 AM
I find an odd thing about Satie and Debussy.  People tend to like either one composer or the other, but not both.  People tend to be a "Satie person" or a "Debussy person."

Does anyone else seem to see this, or is it just my imagination?

Not sure about that. I like and play both, but then I'm also a Rebikov person.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on May 15, 2012, 12:11:27 PM
What about Takahashi on Denon? I know de Leeuw is unique, but Takahashi has an enormously packed 2cd set (with the awful cover) that also includes the 5 Nocturnes. Anyone have both?
Title: Satie "Vexations" worldwide
Post by: Brewski on June 20, 2012, 09:22:47 AM
Satie-lovers, tomorrow (June 21) his Vexations (1883) will be performed by vibraphonists around the world, starting in Australia and ending in the western United States. Info here:

http://www.worldwidevexations.com/

(I hope to catch some of the 12 hours in New York, but the temperature is supposed to be close to 100°F, or 37°C.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 20, 2012, 09:47:00 AM
Vexatious Vibraphones . . . they had to go there, didn't they?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on June 21, 2012, 06:05:31 AM
Vexatious Vibraphones . . . they had to go there, didn't they?

really!!


I just got de Leeuw, haven't listened. I'm going to need a hyperbaric chamber for this one, huh?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: DieNacht on June 21, 2012, 07:03:54 AM
Perhaps inform your neighbours, in case you fall in a long-lasting trance  :).
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on June 21, 2012, 06:46:58 PM
Perhaps inform your neighbours, in case you fall in a long-lasting trance  :).

Seriously... that's what I'm afraid of.

Valium. Check.

Bed. Check.

Ahhh,... I need a vacation, haha!! ;) 8)

I never usually leave new cds in the wrapper for longer than 20secs. I've had this a week, and I just haven't had the special time open up. I might have to leave it for an emergency. I can practically FEEL it coming through the wrapper,... it's The Spice! :o
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on November 07, 2013, 06:36:30 PM
(I like de Leeuw, too, only Luke is far more eloquent here.

karl (and fans of de Leeuw) - which Satie recordings do you own (and enjoy) by de Leeuw? I understand he recorded Satie twice, in analog in 1977 and in digital in 1992 (in the box set posted directly above.) 
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 08, 2013, 12:40:04 PM
karl (and fans of de Leeuw) - which Satie recordings do you own (and enjoy) by de Leeuw? I understand he recorded Satie twice, in analog in 1977 and in digital in 1992 (in the box set posted directly above.)

I bought the single disc (digital) first and then bought the box (same performances) later when I decided I needed more de Leeuw. The Pièces froides in the box is from 1977.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/june2010/satiegnogymleeuw.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/june2010/SatieLeeuwbox.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on November 08, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
Thanks, Sarge!
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: KevinP on February 05, 2014, 04:31:26 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nBeD8uORL.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Fj8CyyCLL.jpg)

Help me decide?

Saw the discussion a couple pages back about preferred orchestral Socrate, but for a general intro to his orchestral works, anyone want to recommend one over the other?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on February 26, 2014, 12:03:51 PM
Entr' acte

https://www.youtube.com/v/UnXdYxvBHf8

Entr'acte is a 1924 French short film directed by René Clair, which premiered as an entr'acte for the Ballets Suédois production Relâche at the Théâtre des Champs-Élysées in Paris. Relâche is based on a book and with settings by Francis Picabia, produced by Rolf de Maré, and with choreography by Jean Börlin. The music for both the ballet and the film was composed by Erik Satie.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 12:14:46 PM
He is great, indeed, though more for what he opened up (not just to Debussy, Ravel, Poulenc and the Arceuil school but also, even, to John Cage, who he influenced deeply), than for his music. There are, probably, only a few really, truly strong pieces (Socrate, the Nocturnes, Sports et Divertissements, Pieces en forme de poire, and actually the famous earlier pieces too - Gymnopedies, Gnossiennes, Sarabandes). However, I wouldn't willingly exchange these ones for anything.

He's a fascinating figure, much misunderstood, and admirable on a personal level in so many ways (witness his going back to the conservatoire in all humility at a late age; in general witness the strength of character that enabled him to live the life he did, isolated in Arceuil). Also among the most anecdote-ridden of composers! Get hold of Rollo Myers' old biography. It's the only one I've read, it may be superceded by later ones, but it comes from very close to the source and feels genuine and passionate.

The Sarabandes (his first serious works) I think are really fantastic and unfortunately are mostly overshadowed by the Gymnopedies and/or Gnossiennes.

I am another fan of de Leeuw.   I used to only listen to Ciccolini until I went back after hearing all of the recordings by de Leeuw and couldn't accept Ciccolini any more.
Title: Re: Erik Satie Peeks Through the Window
Post by: snyprrr on October 17, 2017, 12:41:30 PM
I have arrived at Orchestral Satie, somewhere I believe I've never gone due to my idea that it was the furthest thing from my beloved 'Gymnopedie'. Well, I'm at the station now, and need a lift into town...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Christo on October 17, 2017, 12:56:39 PM
Talking about orchestral Satie: this weekend I bought this great 13-cd box at JPC.de for just under 10 euros, with vintage recordings of Satie and around, with Parade, Relâche and a handful of orchestral versions of the Gymnopedies:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZHnYyi-KL._SL600_.jpg)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Monsieur Croche on October 20, 2017, 04:16:00 AM
Some of the best and most musically intelligent performances (which renders them more, not less, attractive) of the orchestral music can be found here -- a vintage recording (with find sound) priced from very little money to rather ridiculous money.

Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on October 23, 2017, 07:30:12 AM
Some of the best and most musically intelligent performances (which renders them more, not less, attractive) of the orchestral music can be found here -- a vintage recording (with find sound) priced from very little money to rather ridiculous money.

bump


I forgot I was embarking on a Satie WorldTour2017...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: milk on November 15, 2017, 07:01:34 PM
(https://is3-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/99/14/ce/mzi.dzogcdle.jpg/1200x600bf.jpg)
Using an anachronistic piano (or not? I think it's supposed to be like the one Satie had in his apartment). I've liked this for a long time though.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Gurn Blanston on November 15, 2017, 07:40:41 PM
Been a while since I heard this, playing through a couple of disks now, then some Ciccolini. That's my full shelf of Satie, but I don't feel deprived. :)

8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: kishnevi on November 15, 2017, 07:58:57 PM
Been a while since I heard this, playing through a couple of disks now, then some Ciccolini. That's my full shelf of Satie, but I don't feel deprived. :)

8)

I should think you and Satie would get along very well. He had as well developed a sense of humor as a certain 18th century composer had...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on November 15, 2017, 08:38:27 PM
Been a while since I heard this, playing through a couple of disks now, then some Ciccolini. That's my full shelf of Satie, but I don't feel deprived. :)

8)

That Thibaudet is the Satie set I would bring to the proverbial desert island. Superb sound and performance.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: milk on November 16, 2017, 01:14:54 AM
Been a while since I heard this, playing through a couple of disks now, then some Ciccolini. That's my full shelf of Satie, but I don't feel deprived. :)

8)
I just got this. I hadn't known this much Satie existed.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Gurn Blanston on November 16, 2017, 05:23:38 AM
I should think you and Satie would get along very well. He had as well developed a sense of humor as a certain 18th century composer had...

No one was more surprised than me when I listened to my first Satie disk. I liked it right from the start and ever since. :)

That Thibaudet is the Satie set I would bring to the proverbial desert island. Superb sound and performance.

Been a while since I heard it, but that's what I remember, the SQ was excellent, and the playing was what I thought was very fine, although I'm no expert on the style overall, it was what I liked. :)

I just got this. I hadn't known this much Satie existed.

Me neither, but someone mentioned his very early Sarabandes above, and Thibodet leads off with them here, they are certainly not his later works, but they get you in the mood for them. :)

8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: milk on November 16, 2017, 04:43:30 PM
I have to admit that while I love the “pop” Satie, I find the “other” Satie pretty challenging. I think I will persist a little and see if I can get it. To me, late Satie is not as accessible as, say, Debussy - even the more “difficult” parts of Debussy’s output. Does Satie play a lot of chords? And his music has a lot of spaces. Gaps. That seems to get me stuck. It sounds like chord noodling at first. I’m sure there’s something much deeper here.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Turner on March 16, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
With the arrival of the "Satie & Friends" CD Box, I don´t plan to buy any more of him within the foreseeable future.

This is what I´ve accumulated, in the main - the usual mixture of LPs and CDs, a couple of books. Some of the CDs I also have as LPs, but only Entremont´s LP of orchestral works is included here; there´s also the De Leeuw 3LP box of piano works, some Ciccolini LPs, an LP with Jan Kaspersen boringly playing piano music, from the Olufsen label, etc.
I skipped the Austbø 2CD set of piano works, it just wasn´t particularly different from the others I had.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Turner on March 16, 2018, 11:17:10 PM
and ...

so far, when listening to the Satie & Friends box, it´s been a rather mixed experience; some of the stuff is good, some of less interest, or quality.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Turner on March 16, 2018, 11:17:51 PM
and finally:

At his best, there´s a timeless, hieratic, non-sentimental freshness to his music, I think. But he can have a rhapsodic, impromptu brevity, that is refreshing too, of course.

France Clidat´s box set of piano works (5 LPs, Forlane label) has been criticized for her perhaps somewhat free interpretation of the scores, but I like her very emotional, often rather Romantic approach, as a contrast to the more discrete, less contrastful versions by some of the other pianists.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Turner on March 17, 2018, 12:12:53 AM
Some further, related literature from my collections:
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on March 19, 2018, 07:45:10 AM
I was surprised recently that I didn't enjoy ANY of Satie's Orchestral Works. huh
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on March 19, 2018, 07:59:24 PM
Need to revisit the Piano Music but have not a note in the Library. Ciccolini was my first love here,... what's going on now?

I'm in the 'Enjoyed' Leeuw camp, btw..., buuut,...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on March 20, 2018, 06:28:45 AM
Need to revisit the Piano Music but have not a note in the Library. Ciccolini was my first love here,... what's going on now?

I'm in the 'Enjoyed' Leeuw camp, btw..., buuut,...

Which of Leeuw's Satie recordings have you heard? His later recordings, from 1992 and 1995, while still slower than most, work much better for me than his 1977 recordings. For example, his Gymnopedie is 6:06 on the 1977 and 4:50 on the 1992 recording. It seems the pianist had a change of heart over the years. (Thibaudet's is 3:39 and Ciccolini's is 3:08)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on March 20, 2018, 08:16:24 PM
I just can't stand any recording by JYT......
Been a while since I heard this, playing through a couple of disks now, then some Ciccolini. That's my full shelf of Satie, but I don't feel deprived. :)

8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on March 22, 2018, 07:22:24 AM
Which of Leeuw's Satie recordings have you heard? His later recordings, from 1992 and 1995, while still slower than most, work much better for me than his 1977 recordings. For example, his Gymnopedie is 6:06 on the 1977 and 4:50 on the 1992 recording. It seems the pianist had a change of heart over the years. (Thibaudet's is 3:39 and Ciccolini's is 3:08)

I didn't know there were two... I've heard the Philips 2CD 'Early Works'... even though it does tug at the seams of the piece... one would also want an alternative...


I base EVERYTHING Satie on Ciccolini's 'Le Sailing'!!! No one else seems to get it like he does...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on March 22, 2018, 08:35:00 AM
I just can't stand any recording by JYT......

Well then it's good that you appear to be sitting down.
Title: Re: Erik Satie: CICCOLINI 1971, OR 1986??????
Post by: snyprrr on March 23, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
Which of Leeuw's Satie recordings have you heard? His later recordings, from 1992 and 1995, while still slower than most, work much better for me than his 1977 recordings. For example, his Gymnopedie is 6:06 on the 1977 and 4:50 on the 1992 recording. It seems the pianist had a change of heart over the years. (Thibaudet's is 3:39 and Ciccolini's is 3:08)

The earlier one...

Now, I didn't know Ciccolini had TWO Cycles, both for EMI, the first 1967-71, the second, 1983-86. Oy, what'sthe consensus here?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 23, 2018, 08:20:10 PM
I was surprised recently that I didn't enjoy ANY of Satie's Orchestral Works. huh

I hear ya. I don’t enjoy Satie’s orchestral works much either. His piano music is quite good, though. I’m about to make my acquaintance with his mélodies thanks to this disc:

(http://www.clicmusique.com/covers/large/0025091023424.jpg)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on March 24, 2018, 08:01:36 AM
Tharaud's Satie is IT!!!! ...just my opinion, but WOW on sound quality and delicacy! A Whole Cycle Please!!!

I think I've figured out how to divide Satie:

No.1: get either the Complete Ciccolini (which version?) AND/or Thibaudet

No.2: get Leeuw for the contrast in the Early Works

No.3: get Vol.3 of Ciccolini'80s, 'Fantastic Works' to have all the quirky stuff in one place.
No.3a: get Vol.4 of Ciccolini'80s, 'Etudes' for all the small diamonds no one ever gets to.

Actually, I found I could bypass Ciccolini Vols. 1-2/5, since, for the most part, the whole 'Early' period is strewn over three albums, with, then, a smattering of random bits and pieces out-of-context (Vol.1's 'First & Last Pieces', for which I only want the Nocturnes).

FRANKLY-

Sarabandes
Ogives
Gymnopedies
Gnoissonesss
Nocturnes
Rose+Croix (incl.- Priere, Porte Ciel, 4 Preludes...)
Pieces Froides

should be able to be found just about anywhere in great performances,... uh, one would assume. I just wish Tharaud woud have played the pieces I wanted him to play :(



I hear there's "rumbling" in Leeuw's 2nd recording, and 'After the Rain',... of course, SOUND is half the battle with Satie(I hope you all concur)...

I like a lot about Th :(ibaudet, but he's also a little bolder in places I didn't expect; obversely, the Bjorn guy has something I don't like, but sometimes astonishes with delicacy :(...


WHY ISN'T SAT :(IE MORE POPULAR WITH THE CREAM OF PIANISTS??





Ah, Satie, my 3rd discovery after DSCH and the Mendlssohn(?) VC.



Please, let me just wallow in this Post, since it takes soooo long to get there...



Floating...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on March 24, 2018, 08:51:40 AM
Tharaud's Satie is IT!!!! ...just my opinion, but WOW on sound quality and delicacy! A Whole Cycle Please!!!

Seek out his Poulenc on Arion CD.
Title: Re: Erik Satie: Schleiermacher, Gorisek, VanVeen, Austbo,...
Post by: snyprrr on March 27, 2018, 06:26:16 AM
Pianists known more for their AvantGarde are the ones I seem to be most interested in hearing...


It does seem as if no Pianist trying to tackle most all of Satie has managed to squelch all criticism,... Satie Lovers a picky bunch, eh?!!


After spending a few days with my old chum, I'm convinced that the 5 NOCTURNES are Satie's Piano Masterpieces, and I can't see any real argument against that assumption. I mean, seriously, the "rare air" that seems to have been following Satie's whole career flowers in these pieces with such delicacy and mystery as to ... gulp... transcend Faure!?!!? Who has lovelier Piano Works than these? (I forget which one I melt to)



Schleiermacher pairs the Gymnopedies with LISZT!! Are there any other recitals that contain the Gymnopedie(s) in a Composer-varied recital?

Gorisek has a very particularly delectable Piano Image, but it scares me for some reason...

Anyone hip on the Austbo?- heard some nice examples...




1899-19(09)

The 'Academic' Period... the Chorals, the Exercises, the Fugues, the bits and pieces... for me, there are A COUPLE of nuggets here, but, just listening, yes, they do simply sound a lot like "my first exercise"... ha, maybe I'll finally try a hand at it!! :laugh:





GETTING SATIESFACTION!! 8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 27, 2018, 07:59:46 PM
I bought this De Leeuw recording the other day and quite looking forward to it:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FVcENuUZL._SL1400_.jpg)

I listened a sampled a bit of this recording via YT and was quite impressed. Yes, De Leeuw plays slowly, but the result is gorgeous as if time has been suspended. Proto-minimalism perhaps?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on March 29, 2018, 12:15:31 PM
I bought this De Leeuw recording the other day and quite looking forward to it:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FVcENuUZL._SL1400_.jpg)

I listened a sampled a bit of this recording via YT and was quite impressed. Yes, De Leeuw plays slowly, but the result is gorgeous as if time has been suspended. Proto-minimalism perhaps?


I think you were supposed to get the Philips 2CD instead of that remake, which I hear might have a boomy bass frequency thingy...

I actually went with Vol.5 of Schleiermacher's semi-Cycle, which contain my beloved '5 Nocturnes'  and the 'Reverie de la Enfance de Pantagruel'...



Here's my new Satie "Cycle"


1) Early Works: Leeuw to start with, and then either Schleiermacher or Ciccolini's Vol.2 'Mystical Works'. The Ciccolini has the most amount of pieces

2) 1899-1909: this is the 'Etude' period, along with the uppity bits like 'Jack in the Box' and 'Le Piccadilly'. I'm not all that  attached to the '12 Petite Chorals', 'Mystical Pages', or '6 Pieces from the Period', much less the 20 pieces of bits under the 'Carnet...'title. Either Ciccolini Vol.3(?) or Schleiermacher Vol.4 take care of this period, but itreally is thin stuff

3) 1913-1915: the "humorous" pieces. Ciccolini has ALL of them in his volume.


4) "Late" Pieces- 'Reverie/Pantagruel', 5 Nocturnes, Premiere Menuet: I went out on a limb with Schleiermacher for the Nocturnes,... we'll see... otherwise, the Ciccolini 'Greatest Hits' of Satie has the Nocturnes...


Thibaudet is reminding me of Aimaird: sounds fine until compared with someone with balls...


Ultimately, Ciccolini is the go-to,... oy!, there's sooooooo many others I'm itching to hear, such as Queffellec(?),... I likea lot of Gorisek, though the piano image is almost too strong and good and clear...



pfffffffffffffffffffffft(letting some air out)
Title: Re: Erik Satie ANY 2 PIANO DUO STANDOUTS??
Post by: snyprrr on March 29, 2018, 12:28:58 PM
Anyone have an idea about who to go for in the 2Pianos Music? Roge/Collard have a few extra pieces, but I'm not sure if I like them the best... looking...looking...

I kinda would like the 2Piano Music separate from the rest
Title: Re: Erik Satie Schleiermacher: HAAATED IT!!!
Post by: snyprrr on April 01, 2018, 06:08:17 AM
Schleiermacher Vol.5 (MDG)


I had an idea that Schleiermacher might get it right, and the Review seemed to indicate this. Along with what must be that typical MDG sound, how could I go wrong? Well, maybe herion, because that's what SS sounds like he's on playing this music. I'm fine with him playing AvantGarde, but this was the first I'd heard him playing... "music"... and, oy, my lay-friend thought it was the worst MUSIC ever, boring drab and dull. Well, I compared SS's 'Les Pantins Dansent' with Ciccolini, and.... NIGHT&DAY!!...

whew...

I wanted to throw the CD against the wall. >:D


Schleiermacher clanged his way through my beloved 5 Nocturnes... oh, he does do the 6th as well (though, I could probably live without it)... I just couldn't believe how he was handling the material... I had to rush to Ciccolini, Roge, and Thibaudet just to figure out what was going on.

It's shocking, I tell you!!!



This whole "slow Satie" thing.... I'll give it to Leeuw for being first, but Schleiermacher is playing Cage, not Satie, imo.


$10... how can I get it back????
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 01, 2018, 06:09:25 AM
I do love the piano sound given to Gorisek... and he plays pretty straight
Title: Re: Erik Satie THE UPPITY SATIE
Post by: snyprrr on April 02, 2018, 05:35:55 AM
Satie's 'Early Years' Mystical Phase seems to abruptly switch over into Dancehall Music around 1899. I believe 'Jack in the Box' is the first Piano Music deLeeuw wouldn't record for his posterity!

I have never seen a recital entitled 'The Dancehall Satie', and I'm not sure I'd go for it myself, but, if Joplin, why not Satie? Here's the bulk of the pieces I'm thinking about. What's your opinion?


Danse de Travers
Caresse
Reverie du Pauvre
Verset...

2 Reveries Nocturnes
Preludes Flasques
Vertitables Preludes Flasques

These are the holdovers from the previous style, or...;.....

Pages Mystiques
Musiques Intimes et Secret
6 Pieces de la Period
12 Petite Chorals
Carnet...

...and these are the collections of exercises and such, which mostly have a dour character. Truly, I only like 'Nostalgie', 'Agrousmnr Disagreables(?)', and 'Song-Creux' (my absolute fav little bit ever!!!). I have agonized over these pieces for decades now and my conclusion is that the are Satie's most expendable inspirations(?). Most truly are no better than a textbook example, his melodies being so much "wallpaper".


Je te veux
Poudre d'Or
The Dreamy Fish
The Angora Ox?
Le Piccadilly
Petite Overture de Danser
Petite Musique pour Clown Triste

(Allegro)
(Valse Ballet)
(Fantasie Valse)

3 Pieces in the Form of A Pear
Apercus Disagreables
En Habit en Cherval... (all the 2Pianos music from the era)

Le Belle Eccentrique
Parade
(Cinema)

Les Pantins Dansent




How would you go about arranging a Dancehall Satie recital? I suppose you'd fit maybe one Gymnopedie and a couple of Gnossienes in there, but it would mostly be "uppity".






I've also been looking into the pieces and works that have come to light since, say, the "Complete" Ciccolini. Pieces like the "monsuieur mouche(?)' and the little 40sec. pieces that seem to INFEST Satie's legacy....

I'D ALMOST RATHER BE FOR A PRUNING OR CULLING instead of this madness to enshrine e.v.e.r.y. s.i.n.g.l.e. n.o.t.e. For every dubious gem, there seems to be a lot of mundane routine (yessss ::), I know it's all soooo ironic and cutting edge and bla bla... shut up!!!!).

'Les fils des eoiles'
'Uspud'

What do you think?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 08, 2018, 07:25:40 PM
Can’t spend all night deciphering snyprrr’s messages, so....to lighten things up a bit, I’ve been enjoying this Erato set immensely:

(https://img.discogs.com/hI4epXAMvlqNeTc7JYbU7Z5aA-g=/fit-in/600x601/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9536040-1482278528-9748.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 09, 2018, 01:54:02 AM
Can’t spend all night deciphering snyprrr’s messages [...]

Anyway, even if you did, just mightn’t be worth the effort, you know.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 09, 2018, 08:36:48 AM
Anyway, even if you did, just mightn’t be worth the effort, you know.

There’s probably a lot of truth in that for sure. :)

On a side note, it turns out my Tout Satie! set is corrupted as I’m finding a lot of distortion, especially in the Ciccolini performances, so I returned it for a refund. Oh well it’s okay as I have plenty of Satie recordings on the way. 8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 09, 2018, 08:41:26 AM
On a side note, it turns out my Tout Satie! set is corrupted as I’m finding a lot of distortion, especially in the Ciccolini performances, so I returned it for a refund. Oh well it’s okay as I have plenty of Satie recordings on the way. 8)

Ugh.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 09, 2018, 01:11:14 PM
I have to say that the Trois Sarabandes have slipped into my subconscious and have been driving out everything else that’s currently in my mind. Thanks a lot, Satie! ::) ‘The Velvet Gentleman’? I think not! :D
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 09, 2018, 03:26:53 PM
There’s probably a lot of truth in that for sure. :)

On a side note, it turns out my Tout Satie! set is corrupted as I’m finding a lot of distortion, especially in the Ciccolini performances, so I returned it for a refund. Oh well it’s okay as I have plenty of Satie recordings on the way. 8)

What's on the way? So far, this is my 87% Complete Edition (from early-to-late):

1) deLeeuw 2CD 'Early Works' (could be supplemented with J.White and/or R.Shimada)

2)Thibaudet 'The Magic of Satie': surprisingly has a number of ultra rare and unique pieces, and side-steps any of the bad on the JYT Cycle.

3)Legrand (Erato) for some Middle Period Works

4) Ciccolini Vol.3 'Fantasist Works': ALL the "humorous works on one album... BAM!! (I don't think anyone else duplicates this feat)

5) Gorisek Vol.7-8: contains all the Piano Music after the Ciccolini, in sweeeeet sound.

6)Roge Vol.3

7)Tharaud


I think it's a good start!

I have to say that the Trois Sarabandes have slipped into my subconscious and have been driving out everything else that’s currently in my mind. Thanks a lot, Satie! ::) ‘The Velvet Gentleman’? I think not! :D

Who has the best Sarabandes IS the question. DeLeeuw thankfully doesn't bang the piano,... Thibaudet SUUUCKS!!!,... Roge mia,... Austbo very very good,... Entremont ok,...  Gorisek is great/in your face,...

WHO ELSE???
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 10, 2018, 01:59:53 AM
The more I listen to Satie, the more I become addicted to his music. One of the great things, for me, about his music is how beautifully sparse it is. He can say so much (esp. in his piano music) in five measures than some composers can with an entire thirty minute piece.

One of the most enigmatic figures in 20th Century music and one of endless fascination for me, but we shouldn’t allow his innovations and eccentricities outweigh the musical substance of his music. I find myself in a complete trance when I hear works like the Nocturnes or Sarabandes. My discovery of Satie happened many, many years ago when I was watching an interview with guitarist Will Ackerman and he mentioned how Satie’s music was a huge inspiration for him. In fact, let me see if I can dig it up here:

https://www.youtube.com/v/TwQrOpEr7Hg

He talks about Satie around 3:20.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2018, 06:14:30 AM
Thibaudet SUUUCKS!!!

Don't hold back, snypsss, tell us what you really think.
Title: Re: Erik Satie: Schleiermacher, Gorisek, VanVeen, Austbo,...
Post by: DaveF on April 10, 2018, 11:08:28 AM
Gorisek has a very particularly delectable Piano Image, but it scares me for some reason...

Perhaps because the man himself looks like someone you wouldn't mess with: http://www.bojangorisek.com/ (http://www.bojangorisek.com/)

I must say that, speaking for myself, I find both Gorišek's piano sound and his playing painful in a way that nothing else in my collection can touch.  He can only do two dynamics: ffffffffffffffffffffff and pppppppppppppppppp, he plays a truly horrible piano with a sort of wow-wow-wow to the bass strings like a very cheap electronic keyboard, and with a brittleness to the sound that really physically makes my teeth ache, and so closely recorded that it sounds not only as though the microphone was inside the piano, but that the speakers are inside your head as well.  I bought his whole 10-disc box - luckily only in a charity shop for £8 - and would long ago have thrown it all at the wall, or perhaps just donated it back, were it not for the couple of discs with Jane Manning on them, who alone is worth the money.
Title: Re: Erik Satie: Schleiermacher, Gorisek, VanVeen, Austbo,...
Post by: Mirror Image on April 10, 2018, 07:41:34 PM
Perhaps because the man himself looks like someone you wouldn't mess with: http://www.bojangorisek.com/ (http://www.bojangorisek.com/)

I must say that, speaking for myself, I find both Gorišek's piano sound and his playing painful in a way that nothing else in my collection can touch.  He can only do two dynamics: ffffffffffffffffffffff and pppppppppppppppppp, he plays a truly horrible piano with a sort of wow-wow-wow to the bass strings like a very cheap electronic keyboard, and with a brittleness to the sound that really physically makes my teeth ache, and so closely recorded that it sounds not only as though the microphone was inside the piano, but that the speakers are inside your head as well.  I bought his whole 10-disc box - luckily only in a charity shop for £8 - and would long ago have thrown it all at the wall, or perhaps just donated it back, were it not for the couple of discs with Jane Manning on them, who alone is worth the money.

I sampled some of Gorišek’s Satie amidst my shopping frenzy and found him to quite disappointing for very much the same reasons you gave. The piano is just too ‘in your face’ and I’m not a fan of that at all. So far, Ciccolini, Tharaud, and Thibaudet have impressed me the most.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 10, 2018, 07:46:48 PM
What's on the way? So far, this is my 87% Complete Edition (from early-to-late):

1) deLeeuw 2CD 'Early Works' (could be supplemented with J.White and/or R.Shimada)

2)Thibaudet 'The Magic of Satie': surprisingly has a number of ultra rare and unique pieces, and side-steps any of the bad on the JYT Cycle.

3)Legrand (Erato) for some Middle Period Works

4) Ciccolini Vol.3 'Fantasist Works': ALL the "humorous works on one album... BAM!! (I don't think anyone else duplicates this feat)

5) Gorisek Vol.7-8: contains all the Piano Music after the Ciccolini, in sweeeeet sound.

6)Roge Vol.3

7)Tharaud


I think it's a good start!

Who has the best Sarabandes IS the question. DeLeeuw thankfully doesn't bang the piano,... Thibaudet SUUUCKS!!!,... Roge mia,... Austbo very very good,... Entremont ok,...  Gorisek is great/in your face,...

WHO ELSE???

On the way, so far, are the Ciccolini (first cycle 60s-70s) and Thibaudet sets. I also bought both of Ogawa’s recordings on BIS which sounded fantastic. I also bought Plasson’s recording of the misc. ballets and orchestral works, which sounded great to these ears (I was rather harsh in my earlier assessment of these works) and that Marius Constant recording of Musique d'ameublement and Vexations on Apex (coupled with an unusual Hindemith work that was discussed on the ‘Purchases’ and ‘Listening’ threads).
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: snyprrr on April 11, 2018, 09:12:48 AM
Don't hold back, snypsss, tell us what you really think.

I'll elaborate. The piano sound is to my liking, in spite of the criticisms (I believe one should have both an 'atmospheric' Satie, and a 'dry' one). On some piece, JYT seems to blaze ahead to TopRecommendation- well, I mean, some of the pieces appear to be unique to his Cycle, but,- besides that, I thought he did a few of the single mouvement very well, I thought I heard him having fun.

But, then, woooe, there are the Sarabandes, and the 'Prelude...Ciel', and a few other things I heard that seemed to indicate what one Reviewer decried as sloppy sight reading. The madness is one has to acquire the entire Cycle,... except for the frankly brilliant single disc, 'The Magic of Satie', which contains a good portion of his unique pieces (I think there's also a Japanese version with a few other things).

However, I think most of these pieces are just Songs-without-Words, substantial in duration as some of them are. I'm actually being drawn to pieces such as 'Je te veuw', 'Poudre d'Or', 'The Dreamy Fish, and the more lounge lizard type stuff, JYT notwithstanding in some instances. I think those pieces make great compares between JYT, Roge, Queffelec, Ciccolini, - and , frankly, I think the honoures are more evenly divided than anyone will give credit.

Perhaps because the man himself looks like someone you wouldn't mess with: http://www.bojangorisek.com/ (http://www.bojangorisek.com/)

I must say that, speaking for myself, I find both Gorišek's piano sound and his playing painful in a way that nothing else in my collection can touch.  He can only do two dynamics: ffffffffffffffffffffff and pppppppppppppppppp, he plays a truly horrible piano with a sort of wow-wow-wow to the bass strings like a very cheap electronic keyboard, and with a brittleness to the sound that really physically makes my teeth ache, and so closely recorded that it sounds not only as though the microphone was inside the piano, but that the speakers are inside your head as well.  I bought his whole 10-disc box - luckily only in a charity shop for £8 - and would long ago have thrown it all at the wall, or perhaps just donated it back, were it not for the couple of discs with Jane Manning on them, who alone is worth the money.

I mean, yes, I did say there was something inexplicable about it, scary, but,,... I guess it doesn't sound "cheap" to me,- I hear little tiny metal bubbles (yes, the acoustic is proctologist(?)worthy))))))- BUT, I'm not hearing any harshness, I hear a full, bubbly tone, bright as fuck yes, but I just don't hear any glare or other PenguinGuide words. I like the "rounded" bass :)

I mean, if it IS cheap, maybe Satie should be played on a stand up, LOLOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



ok...Performance

 I found his 'Sonatine Beaurocratique' scintillating. His Nocturnes right on, perhaps a touch reticent (here I do miss some Roge ambience, though, I still want a "dry" Satie also). But I found the 2Piano works the most sparkling. And Vol.8 has 'Mercure', 'Relache', 'Cinema',...

I mean, I'm mostly talking Vols.7-8 (Gorisek's dividing of discs is maddening), but, honestly, I'd love to get the disc of the Humorist Pieces (Vol.6).

I'LL AGREE WITH YOU that I don't want my 'Mystical' Satie in such a dry space. Here, Gorisek's sound loses me.





He's not my first choice,....but he's consistent and MOR (for the most part)... the recording is certainly "boutique"...

OK, Bojan, I did my part. 8)


On the way, so far, are the Ciccolini (first cycle 60s-70s) and Thibaudet sets. I also bought both of Ogawa’s recordings on BIS which sounded fantastic. I also bought Plasson’s recording of the misc. ballets and orchestral works, which sounded great to these ears (I was rather harsh in my earlier assessment of these works) and that Marius Constant recording of Musique d'ameublement and Vexations on Apex (coupled with an unusual Hindemith work that was discussed on the ‘Purchases’ and ‘Listening’ threads).

I'm surprised you got the earlier Ciccolini. Isn't the sound not optimal for Satie, or is there a ReMastering Miracle here? I'm sure, though, as you compare the steadier Ciccolini to the more wayward (and many times humorless) JYT,

(well, I know better than to ruin your box-opening-day) ;)

I'd be more interested in that Ogawa...

I wonder if deLeeuw played his fortes somewhat mildly because he was trying to evoke the spirit of the Erard?

Title: Re: Erik Satie QUEFFELEC'S SOUND????
Post by: snyprrr on April 11, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
Can anyone confirm or deny the Virgin sound issue on Queffelec's set?From what I hear, it's that somewhat hard and dry Virgin sound particular to the era, and it seems to make her performances sound a little hard or aggressive (in the recording sense). Others have noted it; still others say the recording is excellently dry and crisp and clean.

ANYONE>?
Title: Re: Erik Satie PIANO DUETS
Post by: snyprrr on April 11, 2018, 09:34:29 AM
I think Satie's literature for Piano 4Hands is quite profound in context. He certainly has some of the more interesting works amongst the milieu
Title: Re: Erik Satie QUEFFELEC'S SOUND????
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 11, 2018, 11:32:54 AM
Can anyone confirm or deny the Virgin sound issue on Queffelec's set?From what I hear, it's that somewhat hard and dry Virgin sound particular to the era, and it seems to make her performances sound a little hard or aggressive (in the recording sense). Others have noted it; still others say the recording is excellently dry and crisp and clean.

ANYONE>?

I have this:

(https://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/berlin/SatieQuef.jpg)

The piano sound is not pleasing. Too metallic in a weird acoustic. Hard on the ears. A pity because I like her performances.

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 11, 2018, 11:41:50 AM
Listening to Queffélec's Gnossiennes now: horrible sound. The piano sounds like a zither! Bizarre  :o

Sarge
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Baron Scarpia on April 11, 2018, 11:50:33 AM
The piano sounds like a zither! Bizarre  :o

A zither! :)

I have her Ravel on another Virgin release and don't recall it sounding so bad, but that's based on a very superficial sampling.
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: Mirror Image on April 11, 2018, 06:16:38 PM
I'm surprised you got the earlier Ciccolini. Isn't the sound not optimal for Satie, or is there a ReMastering Miracle here? I'm sure, though, as you compare the steadier Ciccolini to the more wayward (and many times humorless) JYT,

(well, I know better than to ruin your box-opening-day) ;)

I'd be more interested in that Ogawa...

I wonder if deLeeuw played his fortes somewhat mildly because he was trying to evoke the spirit of the Erard?

From the reviews I’ve read, it seems that many favor Ciccolini’s earlier cycle. There’s a good review of the set here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Apr02/satie_cicc.htm). I couldn’t disagree with you more about Thibaudet. His performances, from what I’ve heard so far, have been scintillating and a nice contrast to Ciccolini.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 11, 2018, 06:19:11 PM
Listening to Queffélec's Gnossiennes now: horrible sound. The piano sounds like a zither! Bizarre  :o

Sarge

That’s a shame as she’s such a good pianist. I bought her Ravel set, so I hope I don’t run into the same problems you have had with her Satie.
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: snyprrr on April 12, 2018, 10:33:47 AM
From the reviews I’ve read, it seems that many favor Ciccolini’s earlier cycle. There’s a good review of the set here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Apr02/satie_cicc.htm). I couldn’t disagree with you more about Thibaudet. His performances, from what I’ve heard so far, have been scintillating and a nice contrast to Ciccolini.

I will hold off on Cicci until I hear your report. ;)

I have this:

(https://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/berlin/SatieQuef.jpg)

The piano sound is not pleasing. Too metallic in a weird acoustic. Hard on the ears. A pity because I like her performances.

Sarge

Thaaat's what I'm talkin' 'bout...

Ivan Hewitt says it's still his TopRecommends,... very few are speaking of the metallic Virgin sound. I agree, Sarge, her performances are a great masculine foil to Roge's more feminine approach. I was gonna get both, but one can hear the Virgin sound issues right on YT,... it reeeally is bothersome to me and I'm glad you confirm.

I am starting to warm to Roge's femininity,...

Have your heard France Clidat's early '80s 3CD set on Forlane/others? She can be quick, and the sound, though good, strikes me in a strange way, but, she's worth hearing. In the Glazer range, perhaps,...

John White's recital on the super cheapee label is very well recorded...



Thanks again for the Queffelec ;)... such a shame...
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: George on April 12, 2018, 04:37:03 PM
I couldn’t disagree with you more about Thibaudet. His performances, from what I’ve heard so far, have been scintillating and a nice contrast to Ciccolini.

Ciccolini's Satie doesn't work for me, but Thibaudet moved to the top of my Satie pianist list a few years back and has remained there. Roge formerly held that spot.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on April 12, 2018, 04:44:55 PM
Ciccolini's Satie doesn't work for me, but Thibaudet moved to the top of my Satie pianist list a few years back and has remained there. Roge formerly held that spot.

I feel similar to you.  Ciccolini was my first exposure to Satie's piano works and was, for a long time, the only recording I knew.  But after de Leeuw, Ciccolini sounded rough and almost crude.  Leeuw, Roge and Thibaudet are the ones I listen to the most nowadays.
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: Mirror Image on April 12, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
Ciccolini's Satie doesn't work for me, but Thibaudet moved to the top of my Satie pianist list a few years back and has remained there. Roge formerly held that spot.

What is it about Ciccolini that you don’t like?
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: George on April 13, 2018, 02:15:35 AM
What is it about Ciccolini that you don’t like?

I think it was the fast tempos. I don't like his Beethoven either.
Title: Re: Erik Satie What of FRANCE CLIDAT???? it's ok.........
Post by: snyprrr on April 13, 2018, 04:10:58 AM
Ciccolini's Satie doesn't work for me, but Thibaudet moved to the top of my Satie pianist list a few years back and has remained there. Roge formerly held that spot.


So JYT's 10min. 'Prelude...Porte...Ciel' doesn't bother you? Or the 3.5min. 'Prelude en tapisserie'?

I like half of his Cycle, but I do get that "I'm sight reading this" feeling sometimes...


I just believe you have to collect Satie piecemeal. I just can't see deLeeuw playing a convincing 'Je te veux', 'Poudre d'Or', 'The Dreamy Fisch', 'Le Piccadilly', and so forth,...




as per Ccolini- I think he is unsurpassed in the Humorist Works, basically, his volume from the '80s with all the 1912-1915 stuff.
Title: Re: Erik Satie THE SUPER SLOW PERFORMERS
Post by: snyprrr on April 13, 2018, 04:17:04 AM
deLeeuw
Van Veen
Simonetto?
the new lady...
Schleiermacher
Horvath??
JYT's 'Prelude...Ciel'


Right now, only deLeeuw holds a place forme with this approach to Satie. Schleiermacher I just shook my head at. JYT plays that Prelude at almost 2/3 speed, three times slower than the fastest...


There is either ego, drugs, serious-research-gone-awry, or something... the '60s??... LSD?...either way, Satie has been somewhat hijacked imo.

I'd like to hear a bluegrass version of Gymnopede?!?!?!

Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 05:21:47 AM
I think it was the fast tempos. I don't like his Beethoven either.

Oh, well I like Ciccolini’s incisiveness and his overall clarity of the musical line. The fast tempi don’t bother me.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 07:31:38 AM
I hate to admit that I agree with snyprrr, but I do feel that Thibaudet’s Satie lacks that sparkle I like. His performances feel so lethargic to me, especially compared to Ciccolini, Tharaud, and Queffélec.
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: George on April 13, 2018, 08:10:05 AM
I hate to admit that I agree with snyprrr, but I do feel that Thibaudet’s Satie lacks that sparkle I like. His performances feel so lethargic to me, especially compared to Ciccolini, Tharaud, and Queffélec.

A lot changed in just two days:

From the reviews I’ve read, it seems that many favor Ciccolini’s earlier cycle. There’s a good review of the set here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Apr02/satie_cicc.htm). I couldn’t disagree with you more about Thibaudet. His performances, from what I’ve heard so far, have been scintillating and a nice contrast to Ciccolini.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Spineur on April 13, 2018, 08:58:28 AM
I hate to admit that I agree with snyprrr, but I do feel that Thibaudet’s Satie lacks that sparkle I like. His performances feel so lethargic to me, especially compared to Ciccolini, Tharaud, and Queffélec.
Yes these are my favorite Satie Performers on the piano.  I find that I agree more and more with you MI !  I would add this CD



Not the most performed Satie, but brilliant under Lubimov fingers.
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 09:21:12 AM
A lot changed in just two days:

Indeed and I thought Thibaudet was going to be ‘my thing’ whenever I was listening to the few performances of his featured in the Tout Satie! Erato set (which, btw, was all corrupted --- thanks again, Erato). But further exploration, revealed a pianist with very little to say and who doesn’t really project the spirt of Satie too well IMHO.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 09:22:07 AM
Yes these are my favorite Satie Performers on the piano.  I find that I agree more and more with you MI !  I would add this CD



Not the most performed Satie, but brilliant under Lubimov fingers.

Excellent, Spineur. That does look like a tasty disc indeed. Lubimov is such a fantastic pianist. Thanks for the recommendation.
Title: Re: Erik Satie BUT IT SAAAYS AUDIOPHILE ON THE COVER!!! :-D
Post by: snyprrr on April 13, 2018, 01:25:42 PM
Indeed and I thought Thibaudet was going to be ‘my thing’ whenever I was listening to the few performances of his featured in the Tout Satie! Erato set (which, btw, was all corrupted --- thanks again, Erato). But further exploration, revealed a pianist with very little to say and who doesn’t really project the spirt of Satie too well IMHO.

I think he does best in the "cafe" stuff,... I mean, there's still an upside here! At least now you have what appears to be the most comprehensive 'Complete' set,... I mean, I can rattle off what he doesn't do, but, on the basic side.

So, there's that. At least now you can hear all the little trifles and make up your mind...

though...

I would have gone with the 2nd Ciccolini Cycle :-[ ::) :-X :-* I'm starting to warm more and more to Roge- at least he's charming! lol

As I was saying, I believe you have to collect Satie piecemeal.


I gotta go, but there is nothing I'd like better than to continue discussing Satie and Debussy for the foreseeable future! ;)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 13, 2018, 01:26:22 PM
Oh, and how was the "early" Ciccolini re-master sound?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
I’ve been listening to Ciccolini’s first piano cycle on EMI and absolutely love it so far. Now this is the sound I like in Satie: precise, articulate, brisk, but poetically ’straight’ performances. Not the dreary, near comatose twaddle like you get with Thibaudet (and De Leeuw for that matter). Satie isn’t all about some kind of dreamy sound-world. He can be downright sardonic and this is missing in Thibaudet and De Leeuw.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 02:44:05 PM
Does anyone know where one can get the full video for this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/xkAoXy7C6dk

Looks really far out and cool. 8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 07:20:09 PM
Oh, and how was the "early" Ciccolini re-master sound?

I’m afraid I don’t understand the question. Do you mean early as in Ciccolini’s first cycle? I wasn’t aware it had been remastered. I do rather like the audio quality of this first cycle (the late 60s/early 70s recordings). The playing from Ciccolini is just my glass of cognac.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 14, 2018, 05:43:10 AM
I’ve been listening to Ciccolini’s first piano cycle on EMI and absolutely love it so far. Now this is the sound I like in Satie: precise, articulate, brisk, but poetically ’straight’ performances. Not the dreary, near comatose twaddle like you get with Thibaudet (and De Leeuw for that matter). Satie isn’t all about some kind of dreamy sound-world. He can be downright sardonic and this is missing in Thibaudet and De Leeuw.

I was listening ysome to the 2nd Ciccolini Cycle. Here are some criticisms:

1) The sound is good, buuut, there IS a hint of that digital type hardness- in fortes, the piano(s) can be a little "hard",... this is mid-80s EMI sound, after all,...so, sound-wise, I am rating Ciccolini's 80s Cycle "middle-of-the-road".

2) Breathing and paper rustling in the Gymnopedes...

3) The 2Piano works, when going fff, tend to be a bit aggressive. '3 Pieces in the Form of A Pear' is just a little painful at times.


I just can't really find any interpretive qualms, but I wouldn't want his Gymnopede to be the only one. SO, EXCEPT FOR RESEARCH, I MIGHT RECOMMEND THE WHOLE CYCLE,,, again, Satie seems to want to be collected piecemeal.
Title: Re: Erik Satie: SIMONETTO- Fastest Gymnopede Ever!?!?!?
Post by: snyprrr on April 14, 2018, 05:46:00 AM
That tempting set of 'Early & Esoteric Works' by Simonetto caught my attention, but then I heard his 2:50 Gymnopede and was literally shocked!!! It's just so breezy...wtf...

And then he plays the little 'Verset laique...' and like triple slow,... the inmates are running the asylum!!!!
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 14, 2018, 05:48:37 AM
I’ve been listening to Ciccolini’s first piano cycle on EMI and absolutely love it so far. Now this is the sound I like in Satie: precise, articulate, brisk, but poetically ’straight’ performances. Not the dreary, near comatose twaddle like you get with Thibaudet (and De Leeuw for that matter). Satie isn’t all about some kind of dreamy sound-world. He can be downright sardonic and this is missing in Thibaudet and De Leeuw.

1) I'm looking into Pontinen on BIS. There just aren't that many recordings of the Nocturnes...

2) Kormendi sounds like a Germanized version of Satie. Some things good, some things not...

Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 14, 2018, 06:06:38 AM
I admit I've gotten myself into a Satie pickle here... so much has happened since the early 90s...
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 14, 2018, 09:00:53 AM
I was listening ysome to the 2nd Ciccolini Cycle. Here are some criticisms:

1) The sound is good, buuut, there IS a hint of that digital type hardness- in fortes, the piano(s) can be a little "hard",... this is mid-80s EMI sound, after all,...so, sound-wise, I am rating Ciccolini's 80s Cycle "middle-of-the-road".

2) Breathing and paper rustling in the Gymnopedes...

3) The 2Piano works, when going fff, tend to be a bit aggressive. '3 Pieces in the Form of A Pear' is just a little painful at times.


I just can't really find any interpretive qualms, but I wouldn't want his Gymnopede to be the only one. SO, EXCEPT FOR RESEARCH, I MIGHT RECOMMEND THE WHOLE CYCLE,,, again, Satie seems to want to be collected piecemeal.

Thanks for the feedback. Well, I haven’t heard any of Ciccolini’s second cycle (unless this was what was in that corrupted Tout Satie! Erato set), but I can certainly get onboard with saying that Ciccolini’s first cycle of Satie is the ‘bee’s knees’. Looking forward to getting the Ogawa recordings as some of her performances I listened to sounded quite delectable via YouTube.

In other Satiean news, I received the documentary DVD Satiesfictions today, so I’m looking forward to watching this tonight (probably after dinner).
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: aukhawk on April 16, 2018, 12:51:44 AM
I admit I've gotten myself into a Satie pickle here... so much has happened since the early 90s...

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZoB1JncfL.jpg)

Sumptuous.
Title: Re: Erik Satie SATIECRACK!!!
Post by: snyprrr on April 16, 2018, 02:24:04 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZoB1JncfL.jpg)

Sumptuous.

I'm on Page 37 of over 1000 "Satie" Pages on Amazon. I haaave noticed some ... a lot ... of interesting guitar-Satie discs, including that one and a somewhat famous one on EMI.

Thanks for the feedback. Well, I haven’t heard any of Ciccolini’s second cycle (unless this was what was in that corrupted Tout Satie! Erato set), but I can certainly get onboard with saying that Ciccolini’s first cycle of Satie is the ‘bee’s knees’. Looking forward to getting the Ogawa recordings as some of her performances I listened to sounded quite delectable via YouTube.

In other Satiean news, I received the documentary DVD Satiesfictions today, so I’m looking forward to watching this tonight (probably after dinner).

Hangin out at the mailbox the last few days... it's all comin down now!! oh, titters!!


First takeaway: Michel Legrand's Erato recital has, imo, incredible piano sound- it sounds like if Aimaird had some bigger balls, with great DG type sound. And his interpretations are fresh as a daisy, masculine, quick AND slow... he pulls the 1st Gymnopede, at 4mins. even, at juuust the right amount, to give that  deLeeuw effect, without the 6min. duration. Frankly, Legrand gives the most "dolorous" sounding performance, perfectly tugging just enough for the effect. The other two are more normal. Throughout,Legrand, and the sweeet piano sound, make one crave a whole Cycle. It's so good I can barely quail over the 50min. running time. No matter.

MI- I know you cave sweet piano sound. I'd rank this "around" the Philips/Kocsis ideal, maybe better? (in that Erato way when they hit it)

AND-

JYT "The Magic of Satie" arrived, will be interested to hear a few things, not the least the 'Gnossiene No.7'!! lol

And have pulled trigger on all three Roge discs...


AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD

I found a hitherto UNHEARD OF release from a few years back... look up Eve Egoyan/Satie... verrry interesting, will get back...

Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 17, 2018, 05:59:23 PM
Hangin out at the mailbox the last few days... it's all comin down now!! oh, titters!!


First takeaway: Michel Legrand's Erato recital has, imo, incredible piano sound- it sounds like if Aimaird had some bigger balls, with great DG type sound. And his interpretations are fresh as a daisy, masculine, quick AND slow... he pulls the 1st Gymnopede, at 4mins. even, at juuust the right amount, to give that  deLeeuw effect, without the 6min. duration. Frankly, Legrand gives the most "dolorous" sounding performance, perfectly tugging just enough for the effect. The other two are more normal. Throughout,Legrand, and the sweeet piano sound, make one crave a whole Cycle. It's so good I can barely quail over the 50min. running time. No matter.

MI- I know you cave sweet piano sound. I'd rank this "around" the Philips/Kocsis ideal, maybe better? (in that Erato way when they hit it)

AND-

JYT "The Magic of Satie" arrived, will be interested to hear a few things, not the least the 'Gnossiene No.7'!! lol

And have pulled trigger on all three Roge discs...


AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD

I found a hitherto UNHEARD OF release from a few years back... look up Eve Egoyan/Satie... verrry interesting, will get back...

Cool. Yeah, I read that Legrand was quite good, but, honestly, at this point I’m good with Satie as a little of his music goes a long way IMHO. Not saying it’s bad of course, it’s just that you generally get the idea of his methods relatively quickly and this isn’t a slight against the composer of course as there’s always surprises to be had in his music like the ‘drama symphonique’ Socrate. Do you know this work? It’s exquisite. Of course, there’s so much of his piano music that I do love, but probably if I was backed into a corner and forced to pick one piano work it would be Trois Nocturnes. This work has a hypnotic effect on me --- almost like I’m entering into some kind of trance or something. I also really dig his mélodies (w/ piano). One thing I do wish he composed more of is chamber music. For some reason, I think he’d create some gorgeous string quartet music and not to mention sonatas for wind and string instruments. He does have that one ‘violin sonata’-like work, Choses vues à droite et à gauche (sans lunettes), but it’s over before it begins! Also, there’s Musique d’ameublement for a chamber ensemble, but this work is over before you know it as well and it’s really not meant to be listened to attentively as it’s more for ‘background’ or, at least, that’s what the title implies ‘furnishing music’. Did Satie create the first elevator music with this particular work? He very well could have. :)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 18, 2018, 05:39:42 AM
Cool. Yeah, I read that Legrand was quite good, but, honestly, at this point I’m good with Satie as a little of his music goes a long way IMHO. Not saying it’s bad of course, it’s just that you generally get the idea of his methods relatively quickly and this isn’t a slight against the composer of course as there’s always surprises to be had in his music like the ‘drama symphonique’ Socrate. Do you know this work? It’s exquisite. Of course, there’s so much of his piano music that I do love, but probably if I was backed into a corner and forced to pick one piano work it would be Trois Nocturnes. This work has a hypnotic effect on me --- almost like I’m entering into some kind of trance or something. I also really dig his mélodies (w/ piano). One thing I do wish he composed more of is chamber music. For some reason, I think he’d create some gorgeous string quartet music and not to mention sonatas for wind and string instruments. He does have that one ‘violin sonata’-like work, Choses vues à droite et à gauche (sans lunettes), but it’s over before it begins! Also, there’s Musique d’ameublement for a chamber ensemble, but this work is over before you know it as well and it’s really not meant to be listened to attentively as it’s more for ‘background’ or, at least, that’s what the title implies ‘furnishing music’. Did Satie create the first elevator music with this particular work? He very well could have. :)

I hear ya...

I, however, have gotten myself into quite a tizzy here,... I can't believe I'm basically listening to a lot of cafe music,...lol,... I guess the bon bon stuff is fun enough to listen to...eh...


per JYT- I've been listening to his single disc 'The Magic of Satie', with a lot of rare stuff, and, I gotta say, if this is all he had put out, this would maybe be a classic album! I find his MOR Gyms and Gnosses just right for daily consumption. Maybe they just put everything on here where he actually sounds like he's having some fun. And, I'm quite enjoying the piano sound. He actually takes Gnossiene4 slower than deLeeuw, and, here I really liked it- Gnossiene5 also I enjoyed him. But there's still a lot of misfires in the Box itself...

So, for anyone else who's curious- JYT in a small dose... try 'The Magic of Satie'

I still find Roge more enjoyable.... btw, just got his Vol.3 (Sports et Div), and, yea, this album has a LOT of cool rare stuff...


I'M NOT EVEN SURE I'VE EVER EVER PAYED ATTENTION TO GNOSSIENE4 UNTIL YESTERDAY!! My, yes,... wow,... and Gnossiene6, what an enigmatic piece!!

See, I'm STILL discovering Satie, lol

...getting hooked on 'Petite Oeuveurature de danser' ...


pant pant


goin to work...

pant pant
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 19, 2018, 06:25:31 PM
I hear ya...

I, however, have gotten myself into quite a tizzy here,... I can't believe I'm basically listening to a lot of cafe music,...lol,... I guess the bon bon stuff is fun enough to listen to...eh...


per JYT- I've been listening to his single disc 'The Magic of Satie', with a lot of rare stuff, and, I gotta say, if this is all he had put out, this would maybe be a classic album! I find his MOR Gyms and Gnosses just right for daily consumption. Maybe they just put everything on here where he actually sounds like he's having some fun. And, I'm quite enjoying the piano sound. He actually takes Gnossiene4 slower than deLeeuw, and, here I really liked it- Gnossiene5 also I enjoyed him. But there's still a lot of misfires in the Box itself...

So, for anyone else who's curious- JYT in a small dose... try 'The Magic of Satie'

I still find Roge more enjoyable.... btw, just got his Vol.3 (Sports et Div), and, yea, this album has a LOT of cool rare stuff...


I'M NOT EVEN SURE I'VE EVER EVER PAYED ATTENTION TO GNOSSIENE4 UNTIL YESTERDAY!! My, yes,... wow,... and Gnossiene6, what an enigmatic piece!!

See, I'm STILL discovering Satie, lol

...getting hooked on 'Petite Oeuveurature de danser' ...


pant pant


goin to work...

pant pant

Check out Ogawa’s Satie. ‘Nuff said. 8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 20, 2018, 12:53:53 PM
So, here's what SatieMania hath wrought. I'd only really been familiar with the 2nd Ciccolini set, and I'd had the deLeeuw once, which I promptly repurchased. Here they are:

1) deLeeuw (Philips 2CD): not daily listening, but essential

1a)John White (Arte Nova): non-slow "early" works with crystal clear "col legno" sound

1b)Riri Shimada (SONY): "early" works,... both of these are adjuncts to deLeeuw


2) Legrand (Erato): this recital starts with the stylistic break of 'Caresse', thus separating it
                               from the previous grouping of CDs. This issue has crackerjack Satie playing
                               in vivid DG/Erato type great sound. This may be my favorite record here

Roge Vols. 1-3 Decca): out of JYT, Queffelec, Ciccolini, and perhaps a few other contenders, I      decided
                          to go with Roge, polite as he can be at times. He just has a feminine charm I
                          like, and the Decca sound, recessed as it is, has its own charm. The 3rd volume,
                          however, is a marvel of programming in its own right, hitting a lot of rare stops
                          along the way.

JYT 'The Magic of Satie (Decca): this single disc survey of JYT's Cycle hits lots of rare stops,
                                                     making it somewhat essential for the casual collector. I would
                                                     stay away from his set, but this disc is a winner in my book


These three CDs cover the 1899-1912 period quite well. If anything were missing, Ciccolini's 'Etudes' volume could shore up the missing pieces.


3) Ciccolini Vol.3 'Fantasist Works (EMI): this is the most complete album of the works
                                                                  1912-1915, minus '...Meduse', and '...Pantins...'. Also,
                                                                  AC isn't to be beat in interpretation. Sound is alright


'Late Works'


I'm having greater trouble finding adequate representatives for the works starting with 'Parade'.

4) Gorisek Vols.7-8 (Audiophile): these two volumes are the most complete for the works after
                                                     1917, excluding only the 2Piano version of 'Socrate' (rare
                                                     enough as that is). The main draw of V8 is the inclusion of
                                                     'Mercure' and 'Relache'. I kind of like Gorisek, though others
                                                     are having problems with the... uh... "audiophile" sound. lol,
                                                     it's not for daily consumption, but, for 'Complete's' sake, they
                                                     fill a need. Sure, I'd like to find replacements...

Egoyan (CBC): Eve Egoyan's recital has crystal clear sound, and she plays incredibly sensitively.
                         Her disc contains some of the finest recordings of the 6 Nocturnes, anywhere

Schleiermacher Vol.5 (MDG): this album of woefully slow performances contains the 6 Nocturnes,
                                                the 'Pantagruel' reverie, and the Premiere Menuet, the latter played
                       life what                          so slow as to rob it of any   soever...
                                                 SS epitomizes what's wrong with a lot of Satie interpretation, making
                                                 one literally shake one's head in disbelief at his willfulness

Ciccolini Vol.1 '1st & Last Works': his 'Pantagruel' is still the best I've heard, as is also his
                                                      2:00 Premiere Menuet. The 5 Nocturnes are fine, but one does
                                                      crave a better overall sound, good as it is



I am missing a really great 2Piano disc, and a few select pieces (such as 'Musiques intimes et secretes'), and the whole of 'Les fils...', but, generally, I have been able to replace most of Ciccolini, which might have been my point in the first place, though, his 80sCycle might be my final nail in the coffin.

So, there is my 'Complete' Satie,...
Title: Re: Erik Satie NOCTURNE No.7 ???????
Post by: snyprrr on April 27, 2018, 05:17:28 AM
Check out Ogawa’s Satie. ‘Nuff said. 8)

Huh,... I did not like Ogawa at all,... partially it may have been the Erard HIPness... but I wasn'tso keen on her interpreting of Satie either... the 'Enfantins' just had none of the proper charm that Ciccolini effortlessly conjures in those pieces.

I must say I do not like the Erard sound anytime I've heard it recently... Horvath also... the Legrand Steinway sound just explodes me... even the JYT sound is just pure piano dream tone...

I'm thinking deLeeuw played a Steinway LIKE an Erard (not going so heavy on the fortes of the Sarabandes, for instance), which I enjoy (and yes, "slowSatie" is wearing thin with other performers,- I AM giving deLeeuw a pass as being the first, and best, in this category).



I must admit that I'm giving Satie a whole lot more credit right now, and focusing on his 1917-1923 influence, when he was touted as an AvantGardist- which seems odd seeing as his 'Parade' music is still quite "normal"... I know, it's mostly the attitude and the company one keeps...

I don't get 'Socrate' yet...




BUT WHAT ABOUT THAT GORGEOUS EARLY SONG 'ELEGIE'?? WOW!!!! What of the rest of his 'Melodies'? Are they more cafe?



No Satie/Stravinsky connection? Paris? Early 20s? Neo-Classicism?



Just can't get enough of the Nocturnes... WHAT OF THIS NOCTURNE 77777777???????? I LIKE IT!!! Is it spurious?
Title: Jumping the Shark with Satie
Post by: snyprrr on April 29, 2018, 06:41:42 AM
Well, I've done it. My Complete Satie has now run to 17 discs! And of course I'm still missing some trifles,... but,...


I almost feel embarrassed that I have yet to tire of the Gymnopedes,... and I have barely tread into the deLeeuw set,... so much timelessness to deal with...


The Michel Legrand disc is by far my favourite recital in terms of both sound and performance. Alas, it is but a mere 50mins. Regardless of how fluffy Roge may be at times, I still find him the most femininely charming- as opposed to the more masculine Queffelec.

Anyhow, gotta jump ship... I know, I'm just blabbering,... novocaine wearing off...
Title: Re: Erik Satie, SuperGenius
Post by: snyprrr on May 20, 2018, 02:32:04 PM
LOL, I just rediscovered Gnossienne No.2!! Along with No.6,... and, (what are we to make of an "official"?) 'No.7', they represent some early forays into the bizarre, moreso bizarre than the rest of the Gnossiennes, at least, which mostly leave the intricacies to the melody. Here, we have much harmonic interest, and less so in the purely melodic.

Also, the Nocturne Nos. 5-6,... but, has anyone heard this 'Nocturne No.7'? There's a YT video, and it sounds great, but, of course, I'm wondering if it's real.

Anyone?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on May 21, 2018, 07:25:05 AM
Satie, like Cage, is one of those composers I admire more for their musical philosophies rather than the music itself. Satie did compose some cool works, but I can’t really say I’ve heard any masterpieces from him.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mahlerian on May 21, 2018, 07:31:56 AM
Satie, like Cage, is one of those composers I admire more for their musical philosophies rather than the music itself. Satie did compose some cool works, but I can’t really say I’ve heard any masterpieces from him.

Both of them spurned the very idea of musical masterpieces, though, so this is entirely in line with their philosophies.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on May 21, 2018, 07:44:49 AM
Both of them spurned the very idea of musical masterpieces, though, so this is entirely in line with their philosophies.

Be that as it may, I still haven’t heard a work from either composer that made me think “Gosh, now that’s an incredible piece of music."
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 21, 2018, 07:53:48 AM
[...] that made me think “Gosh, now that’s an incredible piece of music."

Socrate.

And, yes, even the overworked Gymnopédie № 1.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Baron Scarpia on May 21, 2018, 08:05:54 AM
And, yes, even the overworked Gymnopédie № 1.

Lucky me, I must have heard the work, but can't call to mind anything about it. Ripe for discovery! (Mental note, Toch gets pushed incrementally back.)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on May 21, 2018, 11:25:55 AM
Socrate.

And, yes, even the overworked Gymnopédie № 1.

Socrate is pretty good, but I never came away from it thinking “OMG! I absolutely loved that!” Gymnopédie № 1 is a lovely work, too.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mahlerian on May 21, 2018, 11:40:01 AM
Socrate is pretty good, but I never came away from it thinking “OMG! I absolutely loved that!” Gymnopédie № 1 is a lovely work, too.

It strikes me that Satie and Cage were also probably the only two composers considered among the most important who had significant deficits in traditional technique (harmony, counterpoint, etc.).

Which actually makes their accomplishments all the more impressive, because they found original voices in spite of their difficulties.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on May 21, 2018, 01:17:19 PM
It strikes me that Satie and Cage were also probably the only two composers considered among the most important who had significant deficits in traditional technique (harmony, counterpoint, etc.).

Which actually makes their accomplishments all the more impressive, because they found original voices in spite of their difficulties.

It has not been my impression from reading about both composers that they had a deficit in harmony or counterpoint.  Both had formal studies, Cage studied two years with Schoenberg (known for his rigorous harmony and counterpoint classes).  They chose to explore other aspects of composition; e.g. Cage rejected Schoenberg's insistence on harmonic movement (and Schoenberg predicted Cage would not amount to much of a composer). 

But, I agree they did both have original voices.  That is what I value more than a composer exhibiting a perfect command of academic techniques.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mahlerian on May 21, 2018, 02:11:09 PM
It has not been my impression from reading about both composers that they had a deficit in harmony or counterpoint.  Both had formal studies, Cage studied two years with Schoenberg (known for his rigorous harmony and counterpoint classes).

Yes, and he is supposed to have done quite poorly at them.  According to writers I've read, this was why he focused on percussion music for the next several years.

They chose to explore other aspects of composition; e.g. Cage rejected Schoenberg's insistence on harmonic movement (and Schoenberg predicted Cage would not amount to much of a composer). 

But, I agree they did both have original voices.  That is what I value more than a composer exhibiting a perfect command of academic techniques.

Academicism is a separate issue.  Surely there wasn't an academic bone in Debussy's body (unlike, say, Rimsky-Korsakov), but he showed mastery of traditional technique in a way that Satie, for example, never did.

Anyway, Satie's music shows command of neither functional harmony nor counterpoint, but as you imply, this is irrelevant to what he actually does, so it's not an issue in itself.  It does make him somewhat unique compared to other well-regarded composers.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on May 21, 2018, 02:30:16 PM
Yes, and he is supposed to have done quite poorly at them.  According to writers I've read, this was why he focused on percussion music for the next several years.

Cage was not interested in functional harmony, and someone might confuse that with "doing poorly".  But Cage focused on percussion because he had no access to ensembles, since he would have to pay out of pocket for the musicians.  This is why he created the prepared piano.  He could not even afford to pay for percussionists and thought of using the piano as a percussion ensemble "in a box".

I also think it is unfair to say that Satie did not have command of counterpoint and functional harmony.  Satie's entire orientation was to deflate the importance of those two traditional techniques.  You appear to think that because he did not use them in his composing, he was unable to. 

I am not convinced this is evidence of a inability.  But am grateful for what he did accomplish.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on May 21, 2018, 03:00:57 PM
Cage was not interested in functional harmony, and someone might confuse that with "doing poorly".  But Cage focused on percussion because he had no access to ensembles, since he would have to pay out of pocket for the musicians.  This is why he created the prepared piano.  He could not even afford to pay for percussionists and thought of using the piano as a percussion ensemble "in a box".

I also think it is unfair to say that Satie did not have command of counterpoint and functional harmony.  Satie's entire orientation was to deflate the importance of those two traditional techniques.  You appear to think that because he did not use them in his composing, he was unable to. 

I am not convinced this is evidence of a inability.  But am grateful for what he did accomplish.

People often forget also that Satie committed himself to taking rigorous musical studies with Vincent d’Indy at the Schola Cantorum de Paris while in his late 30s. He had the ability to write the most technically-assured piece one could write, but he chose to follow his own muse, which is admirable. But, the reasoning for him entering academia again was that he felt he needed the formal training.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mahlerian on May 22, 2018, 06:33:34 AM
People often forget also that Satie committed himself to taking rigorous musical studies with Vincent d’Indy at the Schola Cantorum de Paris while in his late 30s. He had the ability to write the most technically-assured piece one could write, but he chose to follow his own muse, which is admirable. But, the reasoning for him entering academia again was that he felt he needed the formal training.

And, once again, he passed, but he struggled at it.  His exercises were filled with the proverbial red ink.

It's probably true that a huge host of talented conservatory students out there today could write counterpoint and traditional harmony better than Satie or Cage.  It's not true that they could write the works that Satie or Cage wrote, which takes imagination, not merely technique.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2018, 06:36:52 AM
And, once again, he passed, but he struggled at it.  His exercises were filled with the proverbial red ink.

It's probably true that a huge host of talented conservatory students out there today could write counterpoint and traditional harmony better than Satie or Cage.  It's not true that they could write the works that Satie or Cage wrote, which takes imagination, not merely technique.

To the bolded text: where in anything I previously wrote did I say that Satie or Cage weren’t individual composers with unique styles that were their own? My point was I don’t think much of either composers' music regardless if it was loaded with dumbfounding technique nor had no technique at all. As I will say, again, I admire them more for their musical concepts than their actual music.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mahlerian on May 22, 2018, 06:41:55 AM
To the bolded text: where in anything I previously wrote did I say that Satie or Cage weren’t individual composers with unique style that were their own?

Nowhere, nor am I responding to such a notion.  In my eyes, this is a discussion, not an argument.  I am stressing the fact that I do not think of Satie's or Cage's deficits in technique as fatal flaws in their work.  If anything, those deficits probably helped them develop the talents they had in unique directions.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2018, 06:44:42 AM
Nowhere, nor am I responding to such a notion.  In my eyes, this is a discussion, not an argument.  I am stressing the fact that I do not think of Satie's or Cage's deficits in technique as fatal flaws in their work.  If anything, those deficits probably helped them develop the talents they had in unique directions.

Okay.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on May 22, 2018, 06:56:45 AM
I am stressing the fact that I do not think of Satie's or Cage's deficits in technique as fatal flaws in their work. 

I suppose that since I have no interest in learning to play the bassoon or violin, one could say that I have deficits in bassoon and violin performance technique.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: kyjo on May 22, 2018, 07:02:40 AM
I find his two waltzes for piano, Poudre d'or and Je te veux, to be really catchy and charming. Don't know much else of his music besides these and the Gymnopédies.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Baron Scarpia on May 22, 2018, 07:53:06 AM
Nowhere, nor am I responding to such a notion.  In my eyes, this is a discussion, not an argument.  I am stressing the fact that I do not think of Satie's or Cage's deficits in technique as fatal flaws in their work.  If anything, those deficits probably helped them develop the talents they had in unique directions.

To speak of an artist's deficits is condescending and contemptuous. Albert Einstein's first advisor rejected all of his dissertation submissions. Einstein had to find a new advisor to be granted his PhD. We don't speak of Albert Einstein having success despite his deficits in physics. We speak of Albert Einstein having insights into physics that his stuffy old professors could not comprehend. If anything, Schoenberg had a deficit as a teacher, to the extent that he could not understand that Cage had a genius that transcended pedantic rules of counterpoint and harmony. The same for Satie and d'Indy. (Or Berlioz and Cherubini, for that matter.)

Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mahlerian on May 22, 2018, 08:58:25 AM
To speak of an artist's deficits is condescending and contemptuous.

I disagree.  I think that most observers would agree that even the greatest composers had weaknesses in one area or another, which they turned into sources of inspiration.  Stravinsky had difficulty with development, so he mined a vein that stressed juxtaposition.  Wagner struggled to write convincing instrumental music, but his stage works kindled a fire in him that burned brightly indeed.  Takemitsu said that the Japanese had no sense of allegro time, and he made an entire career out of intricate works of a meditative pace.

Albert Einstein's first advisor rejected all of his dissertation submissions. Einstein had to find a new advisor to be granted his PhD. We don't speak of Albert Einstein having success despite his deficits in physics. We speak of Albert Einstein having insights into physics that his stuffy old professors could not comprehend.

This is not analogous.  If later musicians found that Cage and Satie actually excelled in counterpoint and traditional harmony, but their teachers failed to understand this because of the novelty of their ideas, we could make a comparison, but their strengths were elsewhere, and they developed them accordingly.

If anything, Schoenberg had a deficit as a teacher, to the extent that he could not understand that Cage had a genius that transcended pedantic rules of counterpoint and harmony. The same for Satie and d'Indy. (Or Berlioz and Cherubini, for that matter.)

Schoenberg's teaching didn't stress rules at all (Cherubini's, I believe, did, which is why the iconoclastic Berlioz had a difficult time fitting in).  Reading his Theory of Harmony or his text on counterpoint, both of which grew out of his teaching experience, we see that above all he emphasizes the contextual nature of any guidelines and the fact that when an artist reaches maturity even these lose their initial relevance.  The point of proficiency in traditional technique is not to provide a set of strict rules to follow, but rather to allow a composer to gain fluency in handling materials that can be transferred into a variety of idioms.

It's similar to the utility of draftsmanship in the visual arts.  Are there artists who have painted meaningful works, even masterpieces, without a thorough command of perspective?  Sure.  It's not a necessary condition.  Does that mean we should not bother to teach it?  I don't think so.

I think we can say both that learning these idioms is useful to composers and also that a few have managed successful and meaningful careers without being particularly adept at them.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on May 22, 2018, 09:51:06 AM
Mahlerian,

You apparently have a severe misunderstanding of these composers.  Why are you talking about counterpoint and functional harmony with regard to John Cage or Erik Satie?  Those techniques were of no use to them for the kind of music they wished to compose.  Hence those techniques are not evident in their music.  I am sure that, had they wished, they could have mastered these techniques to your satisfaction.

Can you not see the irrelevance of your comments?


Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Florestan on May 22, 2018, 09:55:31 AM
Can you not see the irrelevance of your comments?

Can you not see the irrelevance of arguing with Mahlerian?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: San Antone on May 22, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
Can you not see the irrelevance of arguing with Mahlerian?

 :D

I admit, you have a point.

 8)
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: snyprrr on May 23, 2018, 11:42:35 AM
People often forget also that Satie committed himself to taking rigorous musical studies with Vincent d’Indy at the Schola Cantorum de Paris while in his late 30s. He had the ability to write the most technically-assured piece one could write, but he chose to follow his own muse, which is admirable. But, the reasoning for him entering academia again was that he felt he needed the formal training.

... which mostly manifest themselves in the works of that period, say, 1899-1912. One begins to find some really intricate counterpoint ('Song-Creux' my fav). However, a lot of these pieces ARE just formal exercises that anyone of us would more than likely write if we were in the same position.

(I think I took a class with a regional, and fairly well know, Composer. The first thing we had to do was to write a fugue, or a counterpoint, or something I found very very very very very very boring (and HARD!!) and I dumped that class)

However, I agree that Cage is lazy...



 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


And, I'm sorry that your don't find the Nocturnes to be Masterpieces :'( :'( :'(

Fra :'(nkly... all that early stuff is Mastermiecestopieces... the THREE Gymnopedes,... the CONCEPT married to a Perfect Melody... Pure Genius...


LOL, I'm still awaiting my last Satie disc,... from that slow overstock UK... so I still have a final compendium listening of newish works, including the 2Piano version of 'Socrate'. (speaking of Cage)


I JUST got back to the 3 Sarabandes,... soooo many people bang out those 'fortes' too much for my taste, even '80s Ciccolini. DeLeeuw is quite mild. Roge is very nice in (only) No.3. I really haven't found my Sarabandes yet...


I dunno,... I am becoming pleased with ALL Satie (maybe not some of the academic leaves that maybe should have been left off the canon.

Title: Dreary Satie Cultists
Post by: snyprrr on May 23, 2018, 11:49:16 AM
What's really irked me in this SatieMania2018 is the crop of players that "do things" to Satie's works, most notably in the 'Mystical' works. Horvath I find absolutely horrid, and his instrument and recording venue choice is highly unflattering. Others take the deLeeuw road, but without, at least, his purposeful pulse (slow as it may be- some of these others just seem to be wallowing in their own (perceived?) importance.

I think the time is ripe to STOP all further Satie recordings until we can get a grasp of what we've lost.
Title: Re: Erik Satie IT'S PERFECTLY OBVIOUS
Post by: snyprrr on July 09, 2018, 07:51:50 AM
It seems quite obvious to me that Satie's inspiration for one of the 'Gnossienes' (I forget which one, but you'll hear it) comes directly from Chopin's Nocturne,... and, I think it's 15/2,... if not, it may be 9/2, but I think it's 15/2. If you don't hear it as obviously as I do, maybe it's one of the adjacent ones...


Also, that Debussy's 'Hommage a Rameau' is directly influenced by Satie's 'Mystical' works seems a little more than obvious to me...


there u have it.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: milk on July 22, 2018, 04:53:56 PM
I bought this De Leeuw recording the other day and quite looking forward to it:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FVcENuUZL._SL1400_.jpg)

I listened a sampled a bit of this recording via YT and was quite impressed. Yes, De Leeuw plays slowly, but the result is gorgeous as if time has been suspended. Proto-minimalism perhaps?
De Leeuw is amazing. He really shows something wholly different about this music. I didn’t think Satie could be expressed in this way. There is nothing quite like this. I’d like to know of other performers who take a similar approach to a given composer.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Draško on July 23, 2018, 02:40:33 AM
I’d like to know of other performers who take a similar approach to a given composer.

Afanassiev, Batagov, Celibidache (Munich years).
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: milk on July 23, 2018, 03:35:26 AM
Afanassiev, Batagov, Celibidache (Munich years).
Afanassiev, huh. Never heard of him. I see he has some Bach. I wonder how it is. Batagov I know. Celibidache Again I don’t know.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: George on August 02, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/28946423721.jpg?1464798337)

Haven't heard this in a long time, as I own a ton of Satie by other pianists and this one always rubs me the wrong way when I put it on. Today I perservered and ended up enjoying it more than ever. It made me think about something. Should Satie sound more like Debussy or like Poulenc? I find many pianists play him more like Debussy, while Barbier plays him more like Poulenc, more playful, less dreamy.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 02, 2019, 05:45:27 PM
Good to know the Satie thread is surviving yet!!! lately was my first official encounter with his rather weird music. Weird in a mesmerizing way. His is the typical story about a mad scientific with skins of perceptive owls and satire gallore!

It was a special highlight the hypnotic minimalistic worlds of Gnossiennes (or Gnosiennes), I almost forget it. I was really moved by this. Lovely music in the end.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: vers la flamme on August 07, 2019, 01:35:00 AM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/28946423721.jpg?1464798337)
Should Satie sound more like Debussy or like Poulenc?

Neither. Satie is his own animal and has nothing to do with either Debussy or Poulenc, outside of having been a formative influence to both. The great players of Satie, I think, emphasize this originality. Two of my favorites are Reinbert de Leeuw and Frank Glazer, both wildly different, but neither of them tries to make Satie sound like Debussy.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mandryka on April 15, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
Anyone heard Schleiermacher?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: vers la flamme on April 16, 2020, 01:55:59 AM
Anyone heard Schleiermacher?

No, but I want to. I have some of Schleiermacher's Cage (volume 7, I believe) and I want to investigate more of the links between Satie and Cage. I would imagine Schleiermacher, a Cage devotee, would be interested in bringing that out.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mandryka on April 16, 2020, 02:31:33 AM
No, but I want to. I have some of Schleiermacher's Cage (volume 7, I believe) and I want to investigate more of the links between Satie and Cage. I would imagine Schleiermacher, a Cage devotee, would be interested in bringing that out.

Well I downloaded Vol 2, which has the mystical music, from iTunes. Much to my regret, not because of the performances, on the contrary, the performances are everything I expected.  But because I just read a review which says that Schleimacher wrote a booklet essay which is "intellectual claptrap", and what reviewers perceive as intellectual claptrap is normally the sort of thing I love. Unfortunately the booklet doesn't come with the download.

Can anyone let me have a scan?
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mandryka on April 16, 2020, 10:52:50 PM
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1409755494_10.jpg)

Another very Cage inspired glimpse of Satie’s esoteric music. Phillip Corner looks as though he’s going to be an interesting musician to explore - former Fluxus. I think this is an exceptional CD.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on May 13, 2020, 04:47:12 PM
Maybe the most interesting Satie recording:

Satsuki Shibano's 1984 "wave notation": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8buDQtwWOY
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Mandryka on May 13, 2020, 06:20:56 PM
Maybe the most interesting Satie recording:

Satsuki Shibano's 1984 "wave notation": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8buDQtwWOY

Excellent and new to me, thanks.
Title: Re: Erik Satie
Post by: Philoctetes on May 13, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
Excellent and new to me, thanks.

You are most welcome.  :)