GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Sean on July 08, 2009, 08:03:47 AM

Title: Mosolov
Post by: Sean on July 08, 2009, 08:03:47 AM
I just borrowed the CD with Four Pieces for bassoon and piano, Four Pieces for oboe and piano, String quartet No.2, Four Newspaper announcements, Three Children’s scenes (and the Cello concerto arrangement). Somewhere between Popov and Shostakovich in his lighter moods...
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2009, 09:03:02 AM
I just borrowed the CD with Four Pieces for bassoon and piano, Four Pieces for oboe and piano, String quartet No.2, Four Newspaper announcements, Three Children’s scenes (and the Cello concerto arrangement). Somewhere between Popov and Shostakovich in his lighter moods...


The Iron Foundary is good Socialist Realist propaganda and the Cello Concerto is pleasant.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: snyprrr on July 08, 2009, 09:46:48 AM
Yea, I heard Mossolov was "brought into line" at some point. Perhaps the cd you have (I've seen it) is all the "happy" stuff.

However...hrhmmm... SQ No.1 is the most...mmm... unnerving SQ I've ever heard. This is right in the middle of his experimental stuff, and this thing is just... perplexing. It's highly ugly to me, totally "grey to black", it almost reminds me of an eastern european snuff film. In a way, it reminds me of the abbatoir feeling I get from Schubert's D887, like there is a really sick mind behind it all, except with Mossolov I feel that it's all calculated that way.

Someone said it sounded like silent horror movie music. Yes, and no. It's not literal, but it will give you that creepy 8mm snuff feeling, like there are horrors lurking just out of frame. I don't know, but to me it's quite a disturbing piece... it's just so... so... ugly. Kind of like really creepy children's music interspersed with child killer music.

Perhaps this is what heroin sickness "sounds" like. It definitely "sounds" like a terrible hangover... verrry dreary... fragmented...without the delirious "joy" of Berg.

I just put it on, but it's a sunny day out... I'm taking it off!!! Definitely dead of winter stuff.

The "worst" I've ever heard... I like it!
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Sean on July 08, 2009, 07:04:44 PM
Yes, the SQ is pretty mushy and dull, almost like he had other reasons for writing it- there's a lack of counterpoint, a bit bizarre if you're going to write for quartet. Interesting perspective you have- I like your evaluations by the way, I think you see some things just as I do.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Sean on July 09, 2009, 04:43:04 AM
Listened again several times today- the banality isn't all banal, more of the clever intentional Russian kind, the best example of which I think being in Shos 14, that song with the simple but menacing theme and drum repetitions, if you know it.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 09, 2009, 05:02:29 AM
Not particularly on topic, but can I make a recommendation? Change the thread name to Mosolov's Cocktail. >:D
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Drasko on July 09, 2009, 05:13:43 AM
Somewhere between Popov and Shostakovich in his lighter moods...


http://www.myaskovsky.ru/?id=47

Depends on the chronology. As with many soviet composers of that era (including Popov) Mosolov's music pre gulag and post gulag isn't the same. To judge Mosolov's achievements you need to hear his pre-1929 music: Piano Sonatas, 1st String Quartet, Piano Concerto....

http://www.siue.edu/~aho/musov/discrev/moschron.html

4 Newspaper Advertisements are in my opinion superb example of dada in music, because they are exactly what they say they are - four newspaper adds set to music and turned into song cycle.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: snyprrr on July 09, 2009, 09:02:54 AM
Not particularly on topic, but can I make a recommendation? Change the thread name to Mosolov's Cocktail. >:D

yes, yes!!!... and 2 "s"s would be nice (snyprrr's graphic design LLC.)
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Drasko on July 09, 2009, 09:39:29 AM
The Iron Foundry is good Socialist Realist propaganda

That is the usual tag which seems to accompany Iron Foundry but I fail to see it. During 1920s so called 'machine music' was very popular idea across the Europe and I can't hear any fundamental difference between Mosolov's piece and Prokofiev's Le Pas d'acier, Antheil's Ballet mécanique or works of Italians like Casavola or Aldo Giuntini (like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhdvtbjzrUo)) and yet only Mosolov gets inherently negative tag of being propaganda, propagating what? Industrial machine age? That's progress, not socialist realism.

for those unfamiliar here's the piece in question:
http://www.mediafire.com/?usyzwfg7b8t
Mosolov - Iron Foundry
LA Philharmonic/Esa-Pekka Salonen (live, broadcast)   
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Sean on July 09, 2009, 12:17:40 PM
Drasko, you're obviously as mad a listener as the rest of us with such fringe repertory; the newspaper suite indeed is short and bizarre- this guy must've had a few contradictions, or maybe just rocks, going round his head. Will listen to the music link also- thanks for that.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Drasko on July 10, 2009, 12:41:30 AM
this guy must've had a few contradictions, or maybe just rocks, going round his head.

No, he was just very talented composer with unique voice and something to say.......and then The Party broke him (same with Popov, same with Roslavets).
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: snyprrr on July 10, 2009, 11:42:53 AM
I'll just reiterate that SQ No.1 is one of the most unique SQs ever.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2009, 12:56:03 PM
A riveting (no pun intended) performance of Mossolov's 'Iron Foundry' (1933, Turin) can be found on this fascinating Naxos Historical CD. The transfers are excellent and I really like the Glazunov piece as well. I have seen the performance of Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony described as the best ever.

Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Sean on July 11, 2009, 11:00:49 PM
There's a little known short piece in this connection I recommend- With gigantic boots by the Austrian Kurt Schwertsik, similar clever stomping rhythms plus some humour.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Drasko on May 13, 2011, 12:52:48 PM
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/northernflowersnfpma9978.jpg)

I find this painful to listen to. It's musically thin, yet tediously overlong second rate film score of a symphony (Symphony in E (1944)) having very little to do with bold, terribly bleak but unique soundworld of Mossolov of the 1920s. Unfortunately The Party did get to him, big time.
Companion on disc is Second Cello Concerto, contemporaneous with the Symphony, haven't listened to it, probably will, at some point.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on May 14, 2011, 02:28:40 AM
That is the usual tag which seems to accompany Iron Foundry but I fail to see it. During 1920s so called 'machine music' was very popular idea across the Europe and I can't hear any fundamental difference between Mosolov's piece and Prokofiev's Le Pas d'acier, Antheil's Ballet mécanique or works of Italians like Casavola or Aldo Giuntini (like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhdvtbjzrUo)) and yet only Mosolov gets inherently negative tag of being propaganda, propagating what? Industrial machine age? That's progress, not socialist realism.

for those unfamiliar here's the piece in question:
http://www.mediafire.com/?usyzwfg7b8t
Mosolov - Iron Foundry
LA Philharmonic/Esa-Pekka Salonen (live, broadcast)   

Fair enough - I take your point.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: eyeresist on May 15, 2011, 07:17:18 PM
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/northernflowersnfpma9978.jpg)

I find this painful to listen to. It's musically thin, yet tediously overlong second rate film score of a symphony (Symphony in E (1944)) having very little to do with bold, terribly bleak but unique soundworld of Mossolov of the 1920s. Unfortunately The Party did get to him, big time.
Companion on disc is Second Cello Concerto, contemporaneous with the Symphony, haven't listened to it, probably will, at some point.

From listening only to Amazon samples, I disagree with this. There is no terrible difference between Mosolov's first and second symphonies (nor the cello concertos). It is possible that, after his enfant terrible pieces, he simply grew up.
 
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Drasko on May 16, 2011, 05:44:29 AM
From listening only to Amazon samples, I disagree with this. There is no terrible difference between Mosolov's first and second symphonies (nor the cello concertos). It is possible that, after his enfant terrible pieces, he simply grew up.

Are we talking about the same person? Could you point me toward those amazon samples, because I'm unaware that his second symphony has ever been recorded, or any of his other symphonies, except for the one I mentioned above.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: eyeresist on May 16, 2011, 05:38:59 PM
Stupid Amazon lied to me - I was looking at Weinberg's 1st symphony on the Northern Flowers label. I guess it shows they were writing in a not dissimilar language?

It is unfortunate that Mosolov's later work is known only by (poor) reputation. According to the List of compositions by Alexander Mosolov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Alexander_Mosolov) on Wikipedia, he wrote NOTHING after 1936!

This site (http://www.siue.edu/~aho/musov/discrev/moschron.html) gives some idea of what he was up to after his 37th birthday:

1937-38 - Prison
1939 - Harp Concerto 
1940 - M I Kalinin oratorio 
1940-2 - Masquerade opera 
1941 - The Signal opera (lost) 
1942 - Second String Quartet 
1943 - The Ukraine vocal-orchestral poem 
1944 - Symphony (without number) in E major
1946 - Second Symphony in C major ; Cello Concerto ; Cello Sonatina 
1947 - Glory to the Red Army oratorio 
1948 - Criticised by Khrennikov 
1949-50 - Song-Symphony in B major, Symphonic Pictures from the Life of the Kuban Cossack Collective Farmers 
1956 - Russian Overture for orchestra 
1958-9 - Symphony (without number) in C major ; Third Symphony in A minor, Four Poems about Virgin Lands
1960 - Hello, New Harvest cantata 
1960 - Fifth Symphony in E minor
1967 - Glory to Moscow oratorio 
1970 - People's Oratorio about Kotovsky 
1973 - Dies 11 July in Moscow
 

EDIT: I listened to the first movement of the Mosolov symphony and quite liked it. (Didn't listen to the rest because I don't want to be FIRED.) I enjoyed the way it was mostly quiet and brooding, a bit like the first movement of Shostakovich 11. The upbeat peak in the middle admittedly sounds like it might be appropriate for a Soviet documentary on hydroelectric power, but shows the influence of his research on folk music, and has some interesting writing for the flutes. I'd like to hear the rest of the work.

His Poeme Elegiaque (1961), OTOH, is a not bad but ultimately faceless cello concertante work in the Romantic style.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Popov on May 17, 2011, 03:27:48 PM
I too like the Symphony in E Major, I find it very enjoyable. It's certainly less appealing than his 1920s music, though. Mosolov's story is really sad...

Personally my favorite works are the 1st Piano Concerto (my favorite PC!) and the haunting 1st String Quartet.



Title: Re: Mosolov Leads Me to Sergei Protopopov
Post by: Cato on May 17, 2011, 05:16:03 PM
This topic about Mosolov has reminded me of the incredible Sergei Protopopov: there are some YouTube people who have posted performances of his 3 piano sonatas and the scores, although the latter tend to be blurred.

http://www.youtube.com/v/p89_A6p2HrE

See the Petrucci Music Library for the scores, which can be downloaded free: Protopopov apparently followed in the steps of Scriabin,  and went beyond him.

See:  http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Protopopov,_Sergei (http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Protopopov,_Sergei)

Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: SymphonicAddict on April 20, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/845221052410.jpg?1440067039)

Yesterday I stumbled upon some works of this rarely mentioned composer (Tractor's arrival at the Kolkhoz, The Iron Foundry and the Piano Concerto No. 1). I didn't listen to the rest of the works on the CD. The Iron Foundry is his most known composition, I see it like an industrial counterpart to Honegger's Pacific 231. Tractor's arrival at the Kolkhoz shares similar features with The Iron Foundry, although its beginning is rather slow and mysterious, and it becomes more animated as it progresses. Worth listening too. And last but not least, the Piano Concerto No. 1. It's undoubtedly the strong dish on the CD, and when I say strong dish is because it has all the merits to be named like that! Don't expect soft and tender music here. I hadn't listened to a piano concerto that was so impressive, original, riotous, frenzied like this for a long time. There are even some jazz echoes that make this piece greater. In short, this work is a must hear! It can easily go to the PTHBYAR thread.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on April 20, 2019, 10:23:52 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/845221052410.jpg?1440067039)

Yesterday I stumbled upon some works of this rarely mentioned composer (Tractor's arrival at the Kolkhoz, The Iron Foundry and the Piano Concerto No. 1). I didn't listen to the rest of the works on the CD. The Iron Foundry is his most known composition, I see it like an industrial counterpart to Honegger's Pacific 231. Tractor's arrival at the Kolkhoz shares similar features with The Iron Foundry, although its beginning is rather slow and mysterious, and it becomes more animated as it progresses. Worth listening too. And last but not least, the Piano Concerto No. 1. It's undoubtedly the strong dish on the CD, and when I say strong dish is because it has all the merits to be named like that! Don't expect soft and tender music here. I hadn't listened to a piano concerto that was so impressive, original, riotous, frenzied like this for a long time. There are even some jazz echoes that make this piece greater. In short, this work is a must hear! It can easily go to the PTHBYAR thread.
Oh dear, now you are getting revenge for my tempting you with Steinberg's 'Turksib' Fourth Symphony.  This looks like a must, expecially in view of your comments about PC No.1 and an earlier post describing it as Mossolov's (Mosolov's) finest work. Also 'Tractors arrival at the Kolkhoz' sounds like a must have. Thanks for alerting us to this Cesar. :)
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Jo498 on April 21, 2019, 10:40:58 AM
The piano concerto is a more daring and original composition than any of Shostakovich's concertos. Nothing else of the few works of Mosolov I have heard comes close (closest probably some of the piano solo) but the concerto is a hint of what more might have been if he had not fallen afoul with the Soviet authorities and basically been broken in the Gulag.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on April 21, 2019, 01:31:41 PM
The piano concerto is a more daring and original composition than any of Shostakovich's concertos. Nothing else of the few works of Mosolov I have heard comes close (closest probably some of the piano solo) but the concerto is a hint of what more might have been if he had not fallen afoul with the Soviet authorities and basically been broken in the Gulag.

Have already ordered it  ::)

Kabalevsky's First Piano Concerto is also one that I greatly enjoy.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: SymphonicAddict on April 22, 2019, 05:50:25 PM
Oh dear, now you are getting revenge for my tempting you with Steinberg's 'Turksib' Fourth Symphony.  This looks like a must, expecially in view of your comments about PC No.1 and an earlier post describing it as Mossolov's (Mosolov's) finest work. Also 'Tractors arrival at the Kolkhoz' sounds like a must have. Thanks for alerting us to this Cesar. :)

Haha, well, it wasn't my initial intention, but if you say so...  :laugh:  ;)

The piano concerto is a more daring and original composition than any of Shostakovich's concertos. Nothing else of the few works of Mosolov I have heard comes close (closest probably some of the piano solo) but the concerto is a hint of what more might have been if he had not fallen afoul with the Soviet authorities and basically been broken in the Gulag.

I agree with this, the Concerto is just spectacular. It was a real shame that Mosolov has suffered both neglect and such unfair punishment.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on May 03, 2019, 12:16:20 PM
Cesar is right, that Mosolov CD is quite extraordinary. Mosolov seems to have been quite a character. He was denounced by the soviet authorities like Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Popov, Miaskovsky and Shebalin but, unlike them, he was charged with 'hooliganism' as a result of having taken part in a 'drunken brawl'. He also wrote to Stalin asking for permission to move abroad where his music would be better appreciated. Unsurprisingly he ended up in a gulag. Miaskovsky and Gliere intervened to get him released early. The 'Iron Foundry' is very special and if you like that you should like 'Tractors arrival at the Kolkhoz' also derived from the ballet 'Steel'. The 'Piano Concerto 1' is quite extraordinary - a kind of chaotic, modernist experiment which reminded me of something composed in the German Bauhaus Art School. Roslavets was another composer who came to mind in the Legend and Piano Sonata. Great stuff!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mosolov

(http://)

Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 03, 2019, 03:52:16 PM
Cesar is right, that Mosolov CD is quite extraordinary. Mosolov seems to have been quite a character. He was denounced by the soviet authorities like Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Popov, Miaskovsky and Shebalin but, unlike them, he was charged with 'hooliganism' as a result of having taken part in a 'drunken brawl'. He also wrote to Stalin asking for permission to move abroad where his music would be better appreciated. Unsurprisingly he ended up in a gulag. Miaskovsky and Gliere intervened to get him released early. The 'Iron Foundry' is very special and if you like that you should like 'Tractors arrival at the Kolkhoz' also derived from the ballet 'Steel'. The 'Piano Concerto 1' is quite extraordinary - a kind of chaotic, modernist experiment which reminded me of something composed in the German Bauhaus Art School. Roslavets was another composer who came to mind in the Legend and Piano Sonata. Great stuff!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mosolov

(http://)

Glad you liked the content of the CD! Interesting connection with the Bauhaus Art. Just the PC 1 is worth the whole CD, simply outstanding in all respects. I'll need to listen to the rest of the works.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Roy Bland on December 18, 2020, 07:46:56 PM
Conductor Arthur Arnold has found music score of Mosolov's symphonies 3-4 and planned a cd for Naxos.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on December 18, 2020, 11:54:12 PM
Conductor Arthur Arnold has found music score of Mosolov's symphonies 3-4 and planned a cd for Naxos.
Excellent news!
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: deprofundis on December 19, 2020, 12:26:28 AM
Excellent news!

Hello wonderful kind buddy Vandermolen, I really like Mosolov , as a pianist he is really piano forte  and confrontation, brutal in a way, I sure love what I heard of Mosolov intense  panorama,, hard driven piano , thus said and meaning he has claws of steel .


Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: relm1 on December 19, 2020, 07:42:45 AM
Cesar is right, that Mosolov CD is quite extraordinary. Mosolov seems to have been quite a character. He was denounced by the soviet authorities like Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Popov, Miaskovsky and Shebalin but, unlike them, he was charged with 'hooliganism' as a result of having taken part in a 'drunken brawl'. He also wrote to Stalin asking for permission to move abroad where his music would be better appreciated. Unsurprisingly he ended up in a gulag. Miaskovsky and Gliere intervened to get him released early. The 'Iron Foundry' is very special and if you like that you should like 'Tractors arrival at the Kolkhoz' also derived from the ballet 'Steel'. The 'Piano Concerto 1' is quite extraordinary - a kind of chaotic, modernist experiment which reminded me of something composed in the German Bauhaus Art School. Roslavets was another composer who came to mind in the Legend and Piano Sonata. Great stuff!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mosolov

(http://)

Ehehe, sounds like my kind of guy.  I would love to read his ill advised letter to Stalin asking to move abroad...no doubt written while he was drunk.

"Dear Excellency,

You, I mean Pravda, have given too many poor reviews of my works.  I therefore am seeking permission to move to a country that is better equipped to appreciate the talent I naturally am.

Yours sincerely,
Alexander

PS: The bath water is too cold, can the minister of comfort turn up the water heat please?"
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on December 19, 2020, 02:03:13 PM
Ehehe, sounds like my kind of guy.  I would love to read his ill advised letter to Stalin asking to move abroad...no doubt written while he was drunk.

"Dear Excellency,

You, I mean Pravda, have given too many poor reviews of my works.  I therefore am seeking permission to move to a country that is better equipped to appreciate the talent I naturally am.

Yours sincerely,
Alexander

PS: The bath water is too cold, can the minister of comfort turn up the water heat please?"
Haha - that's very funny. I'd like to see the letter as well.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: vandermolen on December 19, 2020, 02:04:41 PM
Hello wonderful kind buddy Vandermolen, I really like Mosolov , as a pianist he is really piano forte  and confrontation, brutal in a way, I sure love what I heard of Mosolov intense  panorama,, hard driven piano , thus said and meaning he has claws of steel .
Good to know DP! I've just ordered the Naxos CD featuring Symphony No.5 and the Harp Concerto and will report back in due course.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 19, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
His Symphony in E major on the Northern Flowers disc was rather disappointing. Too bland to be honest. I expected more propulsion but it went too slight regarding thematic material and cogent development.

According to that, I'll be reading your reaction for that new disc, Jeffrey. Thus far, the Piano Concerto No. 1 remains my very favorite work by him. A spectacular work.
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: relm1 on December 19, 2020, 04:42:30 PM
His Symphony in E major on the Northern Flowers disc was rather disappointing. Too bland to be honest. I expected more propulsion but it went too slight regarding thematic material and cogent development.

According to that, I'll be reading your reaction for that new disc, Jeffrey. Thus far, the Piano Concerto No. 1 remains my very favorite work by him. A spectacular work.

How many Piano Concerto's did he compose and how are the others? 
Title: Re: Mosolov
Post by: pjme on December 20, 2020, 05:27:11 AM
There are 2 concerti. Of the second (written 1932) only one movement remains.

https://www.youtube.com/v/jENaIC9VV8Y

But let's hope that new research (cfr. symphonies 3 & 4) may bring new discoveries.