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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 06:10:48 AM

Title: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 06:10:48 AM
I was enjoying the Star Trek: The Motion Picture soundtrack last night and thought that, yes, Goldsmith should have his own thread here (moreso than Willaims *sniff*). Other top notch stuff: Planet of the Apes and Alien. I haven't heard CDs of his other works (I've heard the music at the movies) but I'm a'gonna.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Brahmsian on December 22, 2009, 06:15:24 AM
I was enjoying the Star Trek: The Motion Picture soundtrack last night and thought that, yes, Goldsmith should have his own thread here (moreso than Willaims *sniff*). Other top notch stuff: Planet of the Apes and Alien. I haven't heard CDs of his other works (I've heard the music at the movies) but I'm a'gonna.

Have you heard The Omen - 1976 soundtrack?  Excellent!
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 06:16:08 AM
Have you heard The Omen - 1976 soundtrack?  Excellent!

Of course I have my eye on that one.  >:D
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on December 22, 2009, 06:40:54 AM
If I grabbed just one off the shelf in a burning house, the three you mentioned Dave would be hard to pass.  However, I would grab his Alien score.  In short, the three you mentioned are my favorites. 

Another worth your time is Patton....great stuff.  But try to get a download of the vinyl album if you can. 

Wait 'til Benji jumps on board this thread! ;D
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 06:42:52 AM
Thank you, sir. Patton! Yes, I'd like that.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on December 22, 2009, 06:45:02 AM
Another, that it sounds like we both need (I only have a couple excerpts) is Total Recall.  Cool film as well, IMO.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 06:47:03 AM
Another, that it sounds like we both need (I only have a couple excerpts) is Total Recall.  Cool film as well, IMO.

Yes, there's much to explore. I sort of needed a new music vein to mine and this might be it.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on December 22, 2009, 06:49:40 AM
Yes, there's much to explore. I sort of needed a new music vein to mine and this might be it.

With Herrmann in the conversation, Goldsmith is in my mind the best ever for scores.  His adaptability is unmatched, IMO.  His music will take you down many different avenues while many film composers keep you on the same street. 
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 06:51:49 AM
With Herrmann in the conversation, Goldsmith is in my mind the best ever for scores.  His adaptability is unmatched, IMO.  His music will take you down many different avenues while many film composers keep you on the same street.

I agree with this totally. Williams and Elfman seem to play the same tunes repeatedly in slight variations from movie to movie.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on December 22, 2009, 07:00:51 AM
I agree with this totally. Williams and Elfman seem to play the same tunes repeatedly in slight variations from movie to movie.

I feel your pain, though I enjoy Johnny's music, even Raiders and Superman.  Williams can have his moments though, breaking away from his war horses.  A couple that you may want to try from him are Catch Me If You Can and Minority Report (my all time favorite from him).  For an Elfman difference maker, try A Simple Plan....absolutely brilliant!
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 07:02:11 AM
I feel your pain, though I enjoy Johnny's music, even Raiders and Superman.  Williams can have his moments though, breaking away from his war horses.  A couple that you may want to try from him are Catch Me If You Can and Minority Report (my all time favorite from him).  For an Elfman difference maker, try A Simple Plan....absolutely brilliant!

Hm. Maybe after I collect more Goldsmith.  ;)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on December 22, 2009, 07:04:43 AM
Hm. Maybe after I collect more Goldsmith.  ;)

 ;D

And make sure you give his Western scores a sniff.  Also very good stuff.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: karlhenning on December 22, 2009, 07:13:02 AM
Just saw The Boys from Brazil, with (IIRC) a score by Goldsmith.  Sort of 'period-piece' waltzes, well done, served the movie nicely.
 
Of course, the film-scorer you want for waltzes is Sergei Sergeyevich . . . .
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 11:07:38 AM
;D

And make sure you give his Western scores a sniff.  Also very good stuff.

I might though I don't like most Western music. Yet I enjoy Westerns. Go figure.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: snyprrr on December 22, 2009, 11:56:49 AM
Honestly Dave, have you heard the rich vein of Spaghetti Westerns beyond the obvious? I remember my friend had a few boxes of just dynamite stuff from the '60s-'70s. oh oh, I feel a Morricone Thread coming on...
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 12:10:24 PM
Honestly Dave, have you heard the rich vein of Spaghetti Westerns beyond the obvious? I remember my friend had a few boxes of just dynamite stuff from the '60s-'70s. oh oh, I feel a Morricone Thread coming on...

That stuff I like. I was thinking more mainstream big Western music. You know, like Copland.  ;D
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Brian on December 22, 2009, 01:20:43 PM
Thank you, sir. Patton! Yes, I'd like that.

Man, Patton has one of THE great soundtracks!

One of Jerry Goldsmith's very first scores was for a western movie called Lonely Are the Brave, which star Kirk Douglas says is the best movie he ever made.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 22, 2009, 03:57:09 PM
Thanks for your input, Brian.

Just picked up The Omen and Total Recall.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2009, 02:38:07 AM
I like his music a lot. The opening titles of 'Tora, Tora, Tora' are highlights for me. Also the scores for 'Patton', the 'Black Mass' from 'Damien, Omen 2', 'Planet of the Apes', 'Alien', 'Capricorn One' and 'Total Recall' - as you see, I have high brow tastes in cinema  ;D
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: karlhenning on December 23, 2009, 05:44:31 AM
Bogey's table-pounding had me re-visiting Minority Report.  It is a good score, perhaps Williams's best.  Sure wish he had scored the harp concerto which was recently premiered at Symphony as well (as imaginatively, as intelligently) as he scored his music accompanying this film.  But then, I suppose Spielberg paid him more.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on December 23, 2009, 06:20:07 AM
...as you see, I have high brow good tastes in cinema  ;D

 0:)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2009, 12:38:05 PM
0:)

 :D
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: jowcol on December 24, 2009, 08:18:57 AM
Just for the record, I ADORE the Alien soundtrack-- at least the more lyrical parts.  I remember seeing it when I was just getting into 20th century symphonic music, and it pulled me in so deep that watching the movie (in, I confess, an inebriated state in front of the largest theater screen in the Washington DC area), became an overwhelming experience.  The opening and "landing" parts really seized me because the music was so much like the Scriabin, Hanson, and other stuff I was so excited about at the time.   I sprained my ankle when the captain bought it-- I jumped when I was in the wrong position.

A couple funny things about that sound track.  First, as many of you know, the quote from Hanson's second at the end.  If I recall, that was not Jerry Goldsmith's idea.  Supposedly Ridley Scott and the editor had serious disagreements about the use of music in the film, and the final version has many cues from ANOTHER soundtrack Goldsmith had written, as well as the Hanson quote. Goldsmith was angry about what happened for the rest of his life.  (The Goldsmith ending is an apotheosis of opening and landing themes, and is very powerful in its own right). 

I must admit that some of teh more dissonant parts of the score worked better for the movie than standalone listening. On my mp3 player, I keep an 18 minute edit of the score that focuses on it's strengths, and It seems that I have a hard time passing it by whenever I'm looking up 20th Century American composers...
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: snyprrr on September 13, 2010, 07:36:49 PM
Did he do Planet of the Apes? Great primitive stuff!
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Mirror Image on September 13, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
Did he do Planet of the Apes? Great primitive stuff!

Yes, Goldsmith wrote the music to Planet of the Apes.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: lescamil on September 13, 2010, 08:16:00 PM
Anyone here familiar with Goldsmith's concert works? His Music for Orchestra is a twelve tone serialist work, but don't let that deter you. It is thoroughly engaging and has a tangible sense of drama, despite the musical language. He has a few other concert works, such as Christus Apollo and Fireworks, but I haven't gotten to those yet.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 14, 2010, 05:54:25 AM
I was enjoying the Star Trek: The Motion Picture soundtrack last night

You might like Goldsmith's The 13th Warrior. The track "Old Baghdad" sounds like the Klingons sailing up the Tigris in the Red October  :D  The film is weird though: an Arab teams up with a group of Vikings to save a Caucausian village from stone-age, headhunting cannibals. I didn't make that up  ;D  Great music, though, with a sensational horn-led heroic theme.


Sarge
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MN Dave on September 14, 2010, 06:13:18 AM
You might like Goldsmith's The 13th Warrior. The track "Old Baghdad" sounds like the Klingons sailing up the Tigris in the Red October  :D  The film is weird though: an Arab teams up with a group of Vikings to save a Caucausian village from stone-age, headhunting cannibals. I didn't make that up  ;D  Great music, though, with a sensational horn-led heroic theme.


Sarge

Thanks for the tip, Sarge.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Cato on September 14, 2010, 06:14:57 AM
You might like Goldsmith's The 13th Warrior. The track "Old Baghdad" sounds like the Klingons sailing up the Tigris in the Red October  :D  The film is weird though: an Arab teams up with a group of Vikings to save a Caucausian village from stone-age, headhunting cannibals. I didn't make that up  ;D  Great music, though, with a sensational horn-led heroic theme.


Sarge

The movie is based on a Michael Crichton novel from the 1970's called Eaters of the Dead, in which it is posited that a surviving group of Neanderthals might have terrorized a group of Vikings in the early Middle Ages.

The journal of Ahmad ibn Fadlan is the basis for Crichton's expanded fantasy.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: bwv 1080 on September 14, 2010, 07:16:25 AM
Speaking of Patton and Goldsmith

http://www.youtube.com/v/lp0-kG269FM
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: vandermolen on September 14, 2010, 07:22:49 AM
The opening (and closing) theme for 'Capricorn One' and the 'Alien' and 'Planet of the Apes' music remain my favourites. 'Total Recall' is a good score too.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Benji on September 14, 2010, 07:43:46 AM
The opening (and closing) theme for 'Capricorn One' and the 'Alien' and 'Planet of the Apes' music remain my favourites. 'Total Recall' is a good score too.

All of my favourite Goldsmith is the sci-fi work - the ones mentioned above very much (Total Recall is awesome and works extremely well in the film - one of my all-time favourite tongue-in-cheek sci-fi action flicks!), but also Outlander and Star Trek TMP (and to a lesser extent the other Trek scores).

Perhaps my favourite of all time is The Twilight Zone Movie score. The music he wrote for the 2nd episode of the film, with the boy who has the power to have anything he wants come true and traps a fake 'family', has some of the most touching music i've heard for film. And the Goldsmith-meets-Saint-Saens' Danse Macabre-esque ending is super-fun too, scoring John Lithgow's hilarious hammy over-acting in the gremin-on-the-wing segment.

(Is there an award for most hyphenating in a post?)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: karlhenning on September 14, 2010, 07:47:25 AM
Gosh, I need to revisit The Twilight Zone movie.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Cato on September 14, 2010, 09:50:55 AM
As part of the anti-child mania found in the cinematic milieu of the late '60's and '70's (Rosemary's Baby, The Exorcist, Carrie, etc.) a movie came out with Gregory Peck of all people about the Anti-Christ called The Omen.

The score by Jerry Goldsmith is fantastic, including a Hymn to Satan   >:D   in Latin (Ave, Satane!)   >:D

The movie is a potboiler, but has some interesting touches: a demonic dog pants the words "Versus Christus" (i.e. Anti-Christ) as he prowls around in search of Gregory Peck.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: karlhenning on September 14, 2010, 10:44:25 AM
I've been meaning to watch The Omen, particularly knowing that Gregory Peck was in it . . . .
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Brahmsian on September 14, 2010, 11:39:31 AM
I've been meaning to watch The Omen, particularly knowing that Gregory Peck was in it . . . .

It is a great movie.  And the score to the film is outstanding!  :)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: vandermolen on September 14, 2010, 12:52:01 PM
It is a great movie.  And the score to the film is outstanding!  :)

Omen 2 has a great 'Black Mass' score by Jerry Goldsmith.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: snyprrr on September 14, 2010, 12:58:01 PM
I've been meaning to watch The Omen,

ummm,...it's 2010! ::)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 15, 2010, 03:08:26 AM
ummm,...it's 2010! ::)

Karl exists in a very different temporal dimension  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: karlhenning on September 15, 2010, 04:36:35 AM
Karl exists in a very different temporal dimension  ;D

Sarge

And . . . loving it!
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: MDL on September 15, 2010, 01:02:39 PM
Goldsmith's score for Ridley Scott's Alien is extraordinary. Huge amounts of his music was cut and rewritten for the final cut of the film, but much of his original material was issued on LP and as an alternative soundtrack on the first region 2 DVD release of the film.

However, even in its cut form, I'm always amazed by the haunting melodic material and astounding delicacy of the (often electronically modified) orchestral texture.

Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: eyeresist on September 15, 2010, 05:52:09 PM
Outlander is one of my favourite film discs. Very atmospheric, and not as generic as some of his later scores (he did write a LOT of music).

And recently I have been investigating horror film soundtracks, and have been surprised how much the genre still owes to Goldsmith, especially in the use of various "advanced" techniques. I think the only real development from his time, in orchestral terms, is the technique of running a stick or rubber ball over the gong to produce an eerie moan.


...But I found The Omen, as a film, pretty dull. Absolutely no suspense. Is this child the son of Satan? Yes, he is. Now continue watching for another two hours.
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: snyprrr on September 15, 2010, 07:02:13 PM
Outlander is one of my favourite film discs. Very atmospheric, and not as generic as some of his later scores (he did write a LOT of music).

And recently I have been investigating horror film soundtracks, and have been surprised how much the genre still owes to Goldsmith, especially in the use of various "advanced" techniques. I think the only real development from his time, in orchestral terms, is the technique of running a stick or rubber ball over the gong to produce an eerie moan.

I would love if you might have some deep insights into this horror movie research. It might help in the Ritual Music Thread for ideas on my Grand Opus Tenebrum blah blah, but seriously, I'd love to hear if you've been checkin out lots of stuff. Honestly, now that I think about it, I've so totally taken horror movie music for granted my whole life. Bum Bum.....t-t-tadaaah!

But seriously, my first absolutely necessary ingredient is the creepy children's song that goes slightly carouselish (relish!). la-la-la-la-la

.
..they want to play with you Tommy...
[/i]
...play with you Tommy...
[/i]
...they want to plaaay...
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: eyeresist on September 16, 2010, 04:33:38 PM
Erm, when I say I've been "checking out horror soundtracks", I mean I've been listening to samples on Amazon, so my judgements are necessarily limited. That said, the ones that have caught my ear so far are:

Hellraiser I & II / Christopher Young
Soul Survivors / Daniel Licht
The Uninvited / Christopher Young
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (remake), and TCM: The Beginning / Steve Jablonsky
The Unborn / Ramin Djawadi
The Killing Room / Brian Tyler
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Benji on September 17, 2010, 04:05:37 AM
Erm, when I say I've been "checking out horror soundtracks", I mean I've been listening to samples on Amazon, so my judgements are necessarily limited. That said, the ones that have caught my ear so far are:

Hellraiser I & II / Christopher Young
Soul Survivors / Daniel Licht
The Uninvited / Christopher Young
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (remake), and TCM: The Beginning / Steve Jablonsky
The Unborn / Ramin Djawadi
The Killing Room / Brian Tyler

Check out Alien 3 by Elliot Goldenthal, i'd count that as horror. Very tense avante garde sci-fi scoring, similar to the more modernist parts of the Goldsmith Alien score but more extreme (and entirely in Goldenthal's unique voice).
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Moldyoldie on September 17, 2010, 07:32:04 AM
My favorite Goldsmith soundtrack, bar none, has to be for the fine '60s WWI drama The Blue Max, probably best heard in its film context since a recording of the original soundtrack of suitable fidelity is difficult to come by these days.  Patton is certainly up there, not to mention the theme from Room 222.  ;)

In fact, I'm somewhat surprised The Blue Max hasn't been mentioned. :o
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on September 17, 2010, 01:15:42 PM
Top 3, at this time:

Alien
Planet of the Apes
Star Trek

Honorable Mentions:

Mulan (where he scored it)
Papillon (a sleeper)


I will seek out the Blue Max mentioned above, as I will want it on vinyl. :)
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: eyeresist on September 17, 2010, 07:11:54 PM
Bogey, do you have Outlander?
Title: Re: Jerry Goldsmith
Post by: Bogey on September 17, 2010, 07:17:47 PM
Bogey, do you have Outlander?

No, eyeresist, but I shold eventually snag it as I have added "buy any Goldsmith" vinyl to my shopping list (along with jazz soundtracks and hot rod album covers), as I am yet to be disappointed by any of his efforts.  I have a couple western films by him as well and would like more of those to "boot", so to speak.