I'm shocked to see that every threads dedicated to Chopin are dead... and short!
He's my favorite piano composer, maybe even my favorite composer, no matter the discipline; his music just speaks to me. I want all of his music played by his "best" interpreters, starting with his Preludes. Witch pianist should i check out for these particular works?
NOTE: I prefer emotional interpretations over "technical fantasy"; the more faithful to the scores, the better.
To continue a discussion begun on the previous board:
Off the top of my head:
Preludes: Argerich for a white-hot, extrovert performance. Moravec for a more poetic, subdued take. Both are emotional, though here (and below) I don't know about which is truer to the score.
Nocturnes: Rubinstein's second set, comes on two CD's with a great recording of the Scherzos. Or Moravec, again for his gorgeous tone and better sonics. Or Arrau, who I enjoy most of all for his deep, expressive readings.
Ballades: I really like Perahia here in all four. I like Rubinstein for a more extrovert approach.
Mazurkas: Luisada is great, very romantic with tons of rubato. Rubinstein is good too.
Etudes: Richter's my favorite here, but he didn't record them all. Ashkenazy has more refinement, but still is intense. Perahia is a bit less intense, but very poetic.
Waltzes: I recently got Lipatti here and enjoy his playing. For better sound and great performance and value, Ashkenazy is excellent. His set includes the Preludes and the Schuerzos. This 2 CD set is a great intro to his Chopin, which I find solid, consistent and impressive. Haven't heard Rubinstein, but I know that the issue on RCA red seal is a better, clearer transfer than the one that appeared in the AR Collection.
Scherzos: Rubinstein, either coupled with his Nocturnes or his later version coupled with the Ballades. Richter has these recorded with many but not all of the Preludes on Regis.
Polonaises: Ashkenazy is the only one I have heard, but they are so good I haven't looked elsewhere.
Sonatas: For all three, I really love Andsnes. His are avail cheap too. Also, Ashkenazy's are coupled with his superb Etudes. Many other pianists have recorded individual sonatas, but I think its better to start with all three, especially since #1 is neglected.
Concertos: Argerich/Dutoit great performance and sonics.
No love for Cortot? :( ;)
Polonaises: Rubinstein, Ashkenazy
How does Ashkenazy's Polonaises (Decca?) compare with Rubinstein? Do you refer to Rubinstein's classic 2nd mono set (Vol. 28) on RCA?
Antone know if the Ultima release of Moravec's Nocturnes has better sound than the Electra Nonesuch?
Also, any idea where or if the Ultima is available? :-\
No, and no. Sorry George!
Also, any idea where or if the Ultima is available? :-\
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6192701/rk/classic/rsk/hitlist (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6192701/rk/classic/rsk/hitlist)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chopin-Noctunes-Fryderyk-Franciszek/dp/B000027ETF (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chopin-Noctunes-Fryderyk-Franciszek/dp/B000027ETF)
Sidoze was selling a copy way back, don't know if he sold it
How does Ashkenazy's Polonaises (Decca?) compare with Rubinstein? Do you refer to Rubinstein's classic 2nd mono set (Vol. 28) on RCA?
Great Chopin recs...here's one to add to the list:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00000HY8B.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SS500_.jpg)
Etudes: Richter's my favorite here, but he didn't record them all. Ashkenazy has more refinement, but still is intense. Perahia is a bit less intense, but very poetic.
Which discs would you recommend with Richter's Etudes?
I agree, Simon. With that you get the stellar Debussy preludes as well!
However, the Praga etudes are spectacular, better than any other recording he's made of them IMO. :)
The Praga - do you mean the one with the Scriabin? I always found the Chopin on there to be a little sloppy....
That's the one. In spots, but the Op.25/11, my goodness...worth the price of the disc alone.
That's the one. In spots, but the Op.25/11, my goodness...worth the price of the disc alone.
But a toss-up between Richter and Cziffra for the top I think...
So you prefer the BBC disc perf to the Praga? :-\
I thought that's what we were discussing.
The Op.25/11 isn't on the BBC Disc, I was just comparing the Richter/Praga Op.25/11 with all the other Op.25/11's I have... :-\
Thank you for this discussion. I ordered the Praga disc as they tend to go OOP. And if the Richter 25/11 is as good as Cziffra's I really look forward to receiving this disc! :)
Got that one!I thought your avatar was Cherkassy :D
I need to revisit...
Impromptus: Rubinstein...
Waltzes: Rubinstein...
I thought your avatar was Cherkassy :D
I just listened to Casadesus' studio recording of the Chopin Ballades from 1950, and I liked them a lot!
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00002EPNJ.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Sweet! I got these last night! :)
No, It's Moravec. :P
Moravec's Nocturne is my best choice~!
You have a really good picture. :)
My favorite piece of Chopin is Prelude op.28
Sokolov, Pollini, Cortot, Francois, Kissin - Great performances.
I've heard Stephen Vladar's playing recently, that was not bad.
How do you like the Francois set, if you have it?
Cortot is a 'MASTER', isn't it?
Funny, I bought a Pearl Casadesus CD recently, but it wasn't that one. Mine has Beethoven, Haydn and Scarlatti. I haven't opened yet.I have no Casadesus CD's but I will be watching this :
Can anyone report on his Chopin?
How do you like the Francois set, if you have it?
I have no Casadesus CD's but I will be watching this :
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Casadesus_First_Family_of_the_Piano/70023990?trkid=90529
DVD next week. I will report back if you are interested.
So what is the best recording of "Introduction and Polonaise brillante for cello & piano in C major, Op. 3"? I have just heard Argerich/Rostropovich which was really good. Any other alternatives?I must say I never heard that piece. But for other Chopin Chamber pieces (the Sonata, the trio and the Grand Duo) my first choice is this one from Hungaroton:
For anyone who actually wants to know about Chopin, I would suggest speaking to Herman, who no longers posts here, for he is an expert.
Sidoze may also be able to help, as he is great too.
I wonder what do you think about the Ballades played by Cortot? Should I sample them? And if so, which recording/CD?
If they came out on Naxos, that's where I'd get them from. MDT online has some Cortot on Naxos, last I checked. I own the Preludes and the Waltzes, but would need to hear them again before giving an informed opinion on them.
BTW, who else do you have in the Ballades?
So far, I have Perahia, Cziffra, Casadesus and Moiseiwitsch (Appian) + different individual recordings spreaded around. I definately like the Perahia recording best, but some aspects of the Cziffra and Casadesus are also exciting. I see that they have the below 1929 set of the Ballades at MDT, but I know he re-recorded them in 1933 (so I wonder which is the best).
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/8111245.jpg)
How much of the Chopin ouevre did Cziffra record?
How much of the Chopin ouevre did Cziffra record?
Yes
YesDo you know how it compares to the Pearl set?
ok :D
I found out that I already have the Sirota, but I haven't listened to it yet.
Does the Michelangeli performance on that DVD exist on CD?
Turin 1962 - Cetra CDE 1021, Classic Editions CO 3538, Ermitage ERM 122, Music and Arts CD-924
Simon can you link to Leschenko disc, I couldn't find it
My pleasure:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009ILC1/202-4351466-9240634
A storming recital, can see why Argerich likes her, bit of a 'chip off the old block' ;)
No worries.
Here's The Gramophone's take on her debut CD:
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/gramofilereview.asp?reviewID=200213457&mediaID=210913&issue=Reviewed%3A+Gramophone+11%2F2004
Shame you missed her...
Haven't heard her before and unfortunately missed her playing Chopin's E minor here few weeks ago.Shame on you $:)
Shame on you $:)
I'm completely innocent Mr. Policeman 0:) it's classic case of a bad mojo;D
Over last few seasons I missed Berezovsky, Lugansky, Leschenko and couple local boys & gals playing them.
Nowdays when I see a Chopin Concerto on program I don't even have to check, I know I'll have to be somewhere else that evening.
Has anybody here heard this disc? It seems very tempting. Are the Chopin Ballades here from 1928-1930?
http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Casadesus-Chopin-Schumann-S%C3%A9verac/dp/B00002EPNJ/ref=sr_1_1/103-6086389-5715826?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176150600&sr=1-1
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00002EPNJ.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Since recordings of the mazurkas came up in another thread ( ;)) I'd like to mention a set of 2 discs:
(http://www.polskienagrania.com.pl/okladki/184.jpg) (http://www.polskienagrania.com.pl/okladki/801.jpg)
These contain the best performances of mazurkas from the Chopin Piano Competition, divided chronologically into 2 volumes (1927-1955 and 1960-1985). Featured pianists are: Sztompka, Uninski, ?ak, Czerny-Stefa?ska, Fou Tsong, Irina Zaritzkaya, Martha Argerich, Garrick Ohlsson, Krystian Zimerman, Dang Thai Son, Ewa Pob?ocka, Marc Laforet. Very cheap too - about 15 PLN (5 USD, 4 EUR) per disc. I don't have these particular discs but have most of the recordings in other couplings (Polskie Nagrania have an irritating way of re-releasing the same stuff over and over again in countless guises).
Good question, George! Except for the site of the label itself (http://www.polskienagrania.com.pl/pl.php?o=big&big=801) I can't seem to find the second volume anywhere - and you wouldn't want to order from the directly because there's no way any rational being could ever fathom their ordering procedure. All I've come up with is 2 different places where you can get volume number 1:
http://www.gigant.pl/html/produkt.asp?p=qqmjghqfcqwedmpjllha (http://www.gigant.pl/html/produkt.asp?p=qqmjghqfcqwedmpjllha)
http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,36664.html (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,36664.html)
(at least you can listen to samples on the second of these sites)
I'll look around a little more and let you know if I find anything... If you want to do a search yourself, the catalog numbers are PNCD 006 and PNCD 007.
A well-intentioned person gave me a cd of Chopin pieces played by Paderewski. They're from his 1906 Welte-Mignon rolls. What should I expect?
A well-intentioned person gave me a cd of Chopin pieces played by Paderewski. They're from his 1906 Welte-Mignon rolls. What should I expect?
I listened to the Paderewski recording - twice.
Secondly, the most striking aspect of his playing is the incredibly heavy use of rubato. I'm not a pianist, but what I hear is a systematic doubling of a note, being sounded on the left hand first, followed by the right hand, almost a 2-note arpeggio. If someone can come to my rescue and describe it adequately, I would appreciate.
I think you're referring to desynchronisation, when the right hand comes in just a fraction after the left? It was a common way of playing up until about the 30s, as you say.
(http://cover.deutschegrammophon.com/s300x300/4776592.jpg)
op.28 & op.62
It could also be very short. Most versions of the Op 28 Preludes range around the 45 minute mark. Add in Op 62 and you've still got about 25 minutes of CD left to fill. These would have to be exceptional for me to buy them.
Could be interesting
how about this for novel Chopin: 51 mazurkas for solo guitar? http://cdbaby.com/cd/stephenaron4IT's out of stock ::)
IT's out of stock ::)
I am not against these novelties as long as they are made in good taste
A least you can get Scarlatti on accordion until they re-stock Chopin on guitarI have my eyes on this one:
http://www.amazon.com/felice-Accordion-Music-Domenico-Scarlatti/dp/B0000525L7 (http://www.amazon.com/felice-Accordion-Music-Domenico-Scarlatti/dp/B0000525L7)
I'd welcome comments on Krystian Zimerman's old DG disc of the 4 Ballades, Barcarolle and f minor Fantasy. Thanks! :)
Thanks. I happen to find the Ballades and Barcarolle some of Chopin's most important compositions. I've heard the disc, but can't make up my mind about Ballades 1 and 2.
I see that I don't have a set of the Scherzos yet, and I'm thinking about one of Rubinstein's set. So should I go for the 1932, 1949 or the 1959 set? This 1959 set looks mighty tempting:between the 1932 and 1959, I'd say definitely 1939.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/611PBM4Z1WL._AA240_.jpg)
between the 1932 and 1959, I'd say definitely 1939.
But I prefer Pogo as well.
Did you mean 1959?No sorry, I mean 1932
I would reach for Pogo before Rube, but reach for Demidenko before either.
We'll have to part ways on this. Demidenko is one of my favourite pianists and he's a very caring and thoughtful man, but I just don't find his Chopin convincing, nor natural-sounding for that matter. It's always interesting, but that's a different matter (Mustonen is always interesting too...). Do you like any of his other Chopin recordings? He's just released a Chopin disc on AGPL which I haven't heard yet and probably won't in fact as it's made up of some early works (Rondos) and a few others I'm not desperate to hear right now.
Actually here's the tracklisting.
Rondo in C minor Op 1
Rondo in E flat major Op 16
Rondo in C major Op 73
Barcarolle in F sharp Op 60
Polonaise No 1 in D minor Op 71
Andante Spianato & Grande Polonaise Brillante in E flat major Op 22
AGPL / 1-010
Rubinstein's Chopin EMI set is now on deep discount at Amazon at $29.00
http://www.amazon.com/Arthur-Rubinstein-plays-Chopin-Box/dp/B000002S59/ref=sr_1_13/102-0015196-3925745?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188930993&sr=1-13
But the thing is that the transfers of the same recordings on RCA's Rubinstein Edition are far better!Never heard the EMI myself, everythhing Rubinstein I have is on RCA. But I thought the price point could be a good incentive particularly since these are the 30s recordings. But if similar prices are available with better transfers then no need to bother of course.
And many of these are also available on Naxos - also in better transfers than on EMI.
Q
But if similar prices are available with better transfers then no need to bother of course.
Rubinstein's Chopin EMI set is now on deep discount at Amazon at $29.00
http://www.amazon.com/Arthur-Rubinstein-plays-Chopin-Box/dp/B000002S59/ref=sr_1_13/102-0015196-3925745?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188930993&sr=1-13
the Naxos transfers should be avoided as well. sources weren't good enough
Never heard the EMI myself, everythhing Rubinstein I have is on RCA. But I thought the price point could be a good incentive particularly since these are the 30s recordings. But if similar prices are available with better transfers then no need to bother of course.
I think that a number of you will be interested in this:
http://www.vaimusic.com/CD/1002.htm (http://www.vaimusic.com/CD/1002.htm)
8)
I think that a number of you will be interested in this:
http://www.vaimusic.com/CD/1002.htm (http://www.vaimusic.com/CD/1002.htm)
8)
Rubinstein's Chopin EMI set is now on deep discount at Amazon at $29.00Why would you bother with that (http://www.amazon.com/Arthur-Rubinstein-plays-Chopin-Box/dp/B000002S59/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1202057540&sr=1-5) when you could get this (http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Collection-Fryderyk/dp/B000026OW3/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1202057540&sr=1-3)? I'm in the market for great Chopin performances which are as cheap as possible, so comments appreciated. :)
http://www.amazon.com/Arthur-Rubinstein-plays-Chopin-Box/dp/B000002S59/ref=sr_1_13/102-0015196-3925745?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188930993&sr=1-13
Why would you bother with that (http://www.amazon.com/Arthur-Rubinstein-plays-Chopin-Box/dp/B000002S59/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1202057540&sr=1-5) when you could get this (http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Collection-Fryderyk/dp/B000026OW3/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1202057540&sr=1-3)? I'm in the market for great Chopin performances which are as cheap as possible, so comments appreciated. :)
Some like "that" which are earlier performances, better than "this," his stereo late recordings.Aha. Would I be particularly disadvantaged if I bought "this" instead of "that"?
Aha. Would I be particularly disadvantaged if I bought "this" instead of "that"?
I can't say. I only have this, so I can't even say for myself. I suggest you sample this and that and decide which suits you.Okay. Thanks :) I presume you enjoy this?
Okay. Thanks :) I presume you enjoy this?
Also,thisis getting rather silly. :D
Oh dear, your post count is 4999, go spend your 5000th post on something cooler. 8)
BTW, I do love the later set, It's an incredible value and has very good sound. I only suggested that you hear his early set first, to be sure you get what you will like. Personally, I like other pianists more in almost every work, it has taken me a very long to appreciate Rubinstein's pianism. I would sample Ashkenazy's set as well. I like him more and the sound is better. I can upload some samples if you want for comparison. PM me. :)Well, price is the primary consideration for me, and at $30 for 11 discs Rubinstein's Chopin seems like a terrific way to "dip my toes in the water" or whichever cliche applies best to the situation. :) Throw in the fact that many people love his performances very much and I think as a "starter" set it will do well.
Nothing is cooler than helping a friend. 8):)
Well, price is the primary consideration for me, and at $30 for 11 discs Rubinstein's Chopin seems like a terrific way to "dip my toes in the water" or whichever cliche applies best to the situation. :) Throw in the fact that many people love his performances very much and I think as a "starter" set it will do well.
I have not heard Ashkenazy (except in some ok Beethoven), but do love the Chopin of Ivan Moravec, Claudio Arrau and Kemal Gekic (hat-tip to sidoze!) - a pity Moravec isn't given leeway by some adventurous label to just record as much as possible of whatever the hell he wants!
:)
(http://www.ursine.com.au/Images/2BearsHug.gif)
Hell, I'm willing to chip in! :DIxnay on atthay, I just found a $63 paycheck from the school newspaper on my desk under a stack of all the papers I wrote last semester. ;D *checks Amazon* So now there is a decision to be made 8)
This made my day. :)(http://www.eternitylabradors.com/images/cat_kitten_hug.gif)
Ixnay on atthay, I just found a $63 paycheck from the school newspaper on my desk under a stack of all the papers I wrote last semester. ;D *checks Amazon* So now there is a decision to be made 8)
(http://www.eternitylabradors.com/images/cat_kitten_hug.gif)
;D
Someone needs to rethink his avatar caption.;)
BTW, anyone know if the performances on the new Sokolov Chopin 2 CD set on Naive are the ones that appeared previously on the same label?
;)
Going by the description at MDT, I'ld say yes:
'These two CDs feature live performances by the legendary Russian pianist Grigory Sokolov of some of Chopin’ s most enduring masterpieces, the 24 preludes, the opus 25 études, and the great 2nd sonata. Originally available as two separate full price CDs, here released as a set. They were recorded in Paris at three concerts during 1990 and 1992.'
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//OP30456.htm
BTW, anyone know if the performances on the new Sokolov Chopin 2 CD set on Naive are the ones that appeared previously on the same label?
Same ones, though mdt info is incorrect about some of the dates and places. Etudes are from 13th June 1985 St.Petersburg (not even 1995 as their own backcover says)
(http://www.alapage.com/resize.php?&ref=958564&type=2&r=0&s=0&m=v)
I said I liked him.
Just in case, Stefan Askenase ≠ Vladimir Ashkenazy.
Fiorentino Plays Chopin 1959 (http://rapidshare.com/files/88629595/fiorchop.rar)
8)
Are you sure that this is Fiorentino?
I am still looking for sonata n2, besides argerich, i have it by Michelangeli and i know Rubistein, i'll probably have it on the Horowitz Sony dics of the 1960s-1970s soonTry Ivan Moravec's newish Vox disc; comes with a beautiful Fourth Ballade and a clutch of mazurkas, too. Extraordinary live performance. :)
The more i listen to Chopin, the more i need to try different recordings. So far i am still stuck with the classics.
Arrau in nocturnes, (do i really need Moravec?)
The more i listen to Chopin, the more i need to try different recordings. So far i am still stuck with the classics.I am not a big advocate of Arrau in nocturnes, actually next to Pires his is the only set that makes me cringe. There is slow nocturnes (Arrau) and then there is slow nocturnes (Moravec). If you like the tempo on the slower side, then I'd definitely go with Moravec. There are so many interpretations that although I don't have a favorite set there are a few that comes close. The one set that I can recommend without any hesitation is Tipo. She has grown to be my favorite overall. However, after having listened to Wasowski the last couple of days, her reign may be in jeopardy. Wasowski tends to go both ways. He has his own ideas on which noted and phrases to accentuate, and more often than not it just works for me. With the exception of op 37 g minor, his interpretations might be what I have been looking for after all.
Arrau in nocturnes, (do i really need Moravec?)
I am not a big advocate of Arrau in nocturnes, actually next to Pires his is the only set that makes me cringe. There is slow nocturnes (Arrau) and then there is slow nocturnes (Moravec). If you like the tempo on the slower side, then I'd definitely go with Moravec. There are so many interpretations that although I don't have a favorite set there are a few that comes close. The one set that I can recommend without any hesitation is Tipo. She has grown to be my favorite overall. However, after having listened to Wasowski the last couple of days, her reign may be in jeopardy. Wasowski tends to go both ways. He has his own ideas on which noted and phrases to accentuate, and more often than not it just works for me. With the exception of op 37 g minor, his interpretations might be what I have been looking for after all.
I am not a big advocate of Arrau in nocturnes, actually next to Pires his is the only set that makes me cringe. There is slow nocturnes (Arrau) and then there is slow nocturnes (Moravec). If you like the tempo on the slower side, then I'd definitely go with Moravec. There are so many interpretations that although I don't have a favorite set there are a few that comes close. The one set that I can recommend without any hesitation is Tipo. She has grown to be my favorite overall. However, after having listened to Wasowski the last couple of days, her reign may be in jeopardy. Wasowski tends to go both ways. He has his own ideas on which noted and phrases to accentuate, and more often than not it just works for me. With the exception of op 37 g minor, his interpretations might be what I have been looking for after all.
This subject of tempo in the nocturnes is interesting to me. How are they marked to be played? Who is playing them "properly?"I don't know if Chopin put metronome markings on them, I don't think so though. But they have tempi indications on all of them AFAIK, like Andante Cantabile. Lento, etc.... So I'd say that the interpretation choices are pretty wide. I wouldn't know of a proper way of playing the Nocturnes (or any Chopin for that matter). It is purely personal taste IMO, some interpretations work for me, and others simply don't. I'd say, however, that the most distinguishing element of playing the nocturnes lies in the overall tempo and the amount of rubato employed. Since they are technically easy pieces for any pianist to play, the choice of these elements make a valid (or not) performance as far as I'm concerned. Then there are phrasings, accentuation, etc.. but they are only momentary and if the whole thing does not hold together there is little value on how a certain ornament is carried out.
I love the Arrau nocturnes. Why do they make you cringe?
I recently read a great review of Pollini's Nocturnes: "this is a rose bush with the flowers cut off." 8)He puts out the candle with a fire extinguisher I guess ;D *
But they have tempi indications on all of them...
Too bad they don't indicate these when you buy a recording. Though I'm sure they're easy enough to find online. Thanks.Here you go, this is from the Ciccolini rip:
Here you go, this is from the Ciccolini rip:
Are you sure that this is Fiorentino?
I was lucky enough to find a used copy of Wasowski Nocturnes today. Gave the first CD a spin. Simply wonderful, every bit as good as his Mazurkas. The phrasing is just perfectly tuned so that it is neither overly sentimental nor detached. I have to go through the whole set to have a more definite opinion which should be within the week.
I just listened to the 1st piano concerto performed by Gulda/Boult/LPO. For me this is a very good recording of this Chopin piano music accompanied by orchestra. I have not heard too many versions yet, though.
Argerich, Zimerman?
In your opinion:
The first Zimerman or the second Zimerman?
Also, which Argerich?
... Argerich with Dutoit. The piano playing remains consistently fine, but this time each are afforded exemplary sound.
There are many wonderful recordings of these works, though your options of course will be severely narrowed if you only go for modern sound quality and popular names.
Is Samson Francois a better proposition here? :)
sorry but no matter how good they are, Zimerman and Argerich are popular names too, and the limitation here is gigantic. At one point I owned several dozen recordings of each work and I can only cringe that these two names get mentioned over and over again. In fact it's exactly the same as mentioning 'Li & Lang', the only difference is that these 2 in comparison are more of the journalist's darlings.
The wish for good sound is something that listeners eventually grow out of, thank goodness. I'm happy to point to George as the perfect example here (good to see you recommend the E. Fischer WTC before).
And the Dutoit conducting is dead limp, BTW.
I second this recommendation.
I'd also check out a chamber version of this work, bassio, at the moment it is my preferred way to hear these works.
Hey George, you read my mind, indeed I am certainly waiting for this experience, so recommendations are welcome. :)
Although I know that these recordings are still not available as other famed recordings and are thus more difficult to obtain.
It's a female asian pianist and it's dirt cheap on eclassical. I forget the name, sorry.Fumiko Shiraga. And it is indeed a beautiful performance. It actually prompted me to get the other two available chamber versions neither of which are as successful. Fialkowska who was Rubinstein's favorite pupil (and possibly more) and Drewnowski. If you want to experience the concerti in a new light (i.e. even more focus on the piano >:D ) Shiraga on BIS is the one to go for.
Fumiko Shiraga. And it is indeed a beautiful performance. It actually prompted me to get the other two available chamber versions neither of which are as successful. Fialkowska who was Rubinstein's favorite pupil (and possibly more) and Drewnowski. If you want to experience the concerti in a new light (i.e. even more focus on the piano >:D ) Shiraga on BIS is the one to go for.
Is anyone familiar with Eldar Nebolsin recording of Chopin's first concerto (Deutsche-Symphonie Orchester/Ashkenazy - Decca)? Just saw it at second hand shop but didn't pick it up, no particular reason. Worth checking?
A ha, that's the chap with those Rachmaninoff Preludes on Naxos which are considered so good by some over at RMCR (apparently very personal readings).
Could not care less for the other two.This, coming from someone who loves the nocturnes? :o
I have recently been listening to a lot of Sonata 3 recordings and have found some great ones.
But mostly I find Rubinstein a bit too urbane and civilised. I like my Chopin to be full of Polish fire.
I have recently been listening to a lot of Sonata 3 recordings and have found some great ones.
I have really enjoyed Pogorelich on DVD -- even though the slow movement is very slow, there's such a powerful forward momentum in the playing that it is irresistible to me. And he's such a master of piano colour. (I'm a bit of a Pofgorelich fan -- be warned!)
I also enjoyed an old CD of Cherkassky playing it in the 80s -- it is probably unavailable now (I picked it up second hand.) It's a really turbulent performance.
And then there's Pletnev -- I don't know what to make of this. When I first played it I hated it. So slow. Every little point underlined and emphasised.
But it's starting to grow on me. I like the piano colours. I like its impressionistic flavour. It's certainly the most oddball performance I know.
I would like to hear the Cherkassky some time.
Anyway, I also enjoy Pogorelich... BUT...
I enjoy Cziffra, Ohlsson, and Lipatti even more! And Rubinstein is no slouch here, either!
I have recently been listening to a lot of Sonata 3 recordings and have found some great ones.
I enjoy Cziffra
Gilels is actually pretty convincing
I'd also recommend the live Igor Zhukov recording which Peter Lemken on RMCR recorded in the '90s. It is very dark, pretty much manic-depressive, with a really intense Largo. I'm sure he won't mind if I share it with you, you can download it here (in flac):
It has taken me a very long time to warm to Rubinstein.
It's hard to like BOTH Richter AND Rubinstein!
Gilels is actually pretty convincing in this piece, too (an unexpected choice, perhaps?).
Well I like Cziffra in Mozart and Beethoven -- in fact in everything except Chopin and Liszt (I've only heard the studio recordings though) He just seems too hard driven in the 3rd for me.
It's hard to like BOTH Richter AND Rubinstein!
, and just recently got live Firkusny which sounds interesting on first listen, possibly bit swift for some tastes.
Not at all, especially if you consider that Chopin was not really Richter's forte, while Rubinstein is, obviously a great Chopin interpret.
Moravec remains for me what Rubinstein is to many others.
and yes, I consider Richter a fine Chopin performer
But I must admit... Moravec + Chopin = very special place in my heart...
I like the heavy, dark-hued ones [3rd sonata] but Gilels seemed to be plodding along...
I usually don't prefer Rubinstein for any of the Chopin works (except the bercuese and maybe a few others)
Moravec remains for me what Rubinstein is to many others.
What do you guys think of Horowitz's Chopin?Granted I have not heard his Chopin much, what I have heard (a few nocturnes, mazurkas, a butchered up g minor ballade and a few others) doesn't not warrant looking for more. His kind of idiosyncrasy does not go well with Chopin IMO
I know he was variable, so which are the essential Horowitz Chopin performances to know?
I'll take Moravec, Rubinstein, and Richter! No need to deprive myself of any of these fine Chopin performers (and yes, I consider Richter a fine Chopin performer)!
But I must admit... Moravec + Chopin = very special place in my heart...
Speaking of heavy 3rds, or at least heavy-ish, you might find Katchen's from 1955 interesting. There's a darkish element to his playing too though I'd call him more 'grey' with finely etched contrasts.
But he's not at all plodding. In fact, his agility is what's most impressive, though it's hard not to be swept up in his many flights of poetry. In the end everything hangs together for an impressive showing.
There is also Bolet's fantastic live Preludes
You like it a bit lighter Drasko? Cziffra's rhythmic sense really comes alive in Chopin and I also like his 3rd, same with the early DG Argerich (haven't heard the EMI one)
For high poetry, beauty of tone, and the most exhilarating accents, Moravec is king.
How is Cortot in these sonatas?
Do you know is somewhere available some 80s broadcast in decent sound?
for most exilarating accents Gekic or Cziffra come to my mind
There are some, yeah, though I don't know where to get them from right now. I used to have a live recording from Carnegie Hall around '90, not sure if I sent that one to you (the one that ended with Islamey as an encore).
Gekic, Cziffra and Natan Brand
If you mean Chopin's 3rd, than definitely no, you haven't sent it. There is poor sounding '83 recording from Japanese TV on youtube, so I thought it could have been a radio broadcast as well.
Don't know which are those but in 1931 3rd I have he is superb, typical Cotrot in his effortless rightness in spite of not so perfect tehnique.
For high poetry, beauty of tone, and the most exhilarating accents, Moravec is king.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413JMG7WVXL._SS400_.jpg)
The Naxos Historical one is from 1933. Is the 1931 3rd in the EMI box set?
That is correct. The Naxos is a better transfer for all 5 volumes, with clearer sound.
Which performance do you prefer Cortot's Chopin Sonatas 2 and 3? Is the best performance included in the Naxos volumes?
Which performance do you prefer Cortot's Chopin Sonatas 2 and 3? Is the best performance included in the Naxos volumes?
Incidentally, (George)
I haven't forgotten about posting my view on Naxos vs. EMI Cortot remasterings, I've just not had the time to unertake the enterprise. ;)
And as for Rubinstein vs. Richter in Chopin, the obvious answer is "Cortot".
Although I love the way he accents (or is it accentuates?) 4th Ballade, for most exilarating accents Gekic or Cziffra come to my mind before Moravec.
Gekic, Cziffra and Natan Brand. There was only one time I associated the word exhilarating with Moravec and that was after hearing his live Prokofiev PC 1 which is utterly diabolical (in a good way).
Is there really no-one who will keep me company in a Horowitz-Chopin fan club?
I think I must be alone in my admiration for Horowitz's chopin.
Is there really no-one who will keep me company in a Horowitz-Chopin fan club?
Is there really no-one who will keep me company in a Horowitz-Chopin fan club?
But generally I vastly prefer him in Scriabin, Rachmaninov or Schumann, somehow I get the feeling he really enjoyed playing with Chopin, but as usual with playing, quite often dolls lose their heads in the process.
but as usual with playing, quite often dolls lose their heads in the process.
Did anyone ever do a favorite Chopin recordings by type (nocturnes, ballades, etc.) thread before? I'd like to see all this information neatly compiled in single posts.
LOL
You could just ask the question here, as there are already a number of people subscribed to this thread.
Consider it asked.
Ok. I need some time to do some comparing as I have multiple favorites for each. Can we give something like 3 picks for each category? I think it would be nice if we said a bit about why we chose are favorites as well.
Josef Hoffman is King of the Berceuse, in my opinion.
Though I think you'd have a hard time nodding off to sleep with him playing it.
So which recording of the Hoffman Berceuse do you refer to. Any of the Marston volumes?
(http://www.guruoffilm.com/images/sledge1.jpg)
(http://www.guruoffilm.com/images/sledge1.jpg)
I asked ezodisy about Hoffman recordings a while ago and he completely ignored me... :'(
sorry mate, I have no excuse for it. I do it a lot and indiscriminately ::)
Other Chopin disc I would recommend is this one (okay it's not Hofmann). One of the very very best IMO
The Hofmann Ballade 1 is on YT, listened to it again just now, pretty amazing IMOI think there are two versions in there right? One is slower than the other IIRC.
The Hofmann Ballade 1 is on YT, listened to it again just now, pretty amazing IMO
Other Chopin disc I would recommend is this one (okay it's not Hofmann). One of the very very best IMO
http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2590632
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/25/9/0/632.jpg)
It might be just a semantics thing. In the context of "high poetry" and "beauty of tone" I meant 'exhilarating' to mean simply 'moving'. Perhaps "shimmering" accents might have been more appropriate. At least for the disc in question.
....and the one from the Vatican in 1986 which I can not find anywhere on the net - my copy is on a cheapo label. Tony, what's on the one you've posted?
I think there are two versions in there right? One is slower than the other IIRC.
So which recording of the Hoffman Berceuse do you refer to. Any of the Marston volumes?
The Hofman Berceuse I like is on this
I wouldn't like anyone to think I was an oddball, but I confess to having a soft spot for the Chopin on this CD -- just because it is so strange.
I always wear a leather gimp's mask when I play it.
I wouldn't like anyone to think I was an oddball, but I confess to having a soft spot for the Chopin on this CD -- just because it is so strange.
I always wear a leather gimp's mask when I play it.
What a pianist! I have his opera paraphrases on VAI, an absolutely thunderous tone!
Which recording date is it?
As for the Berceuse yes, Hofman is exceptional but you need to hear Solomon play this.
By the way Mandryka, put on your gimp mask mate and have a listen to this: http://www.mediafire.com/?tw2zonz2y5y
lol! Yeah Nyiregyhazi is one in the world, I haven't heard that disc (the remastering was not well received on rmcr) but I knew the recordings from online sources and particularly liked the long introspective solo Rachmaninoff PC 2 central movement. Nyiregyhazi's Hungarian, so of course he's interesting.
Different disc?:
Different disc?:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21NM7V8VB1L._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
No Rach on here, Ward-Marston did transfers and seem OK to me...
Great! Thanks a lot! I had never heard that. Oh my God, what an extraordinary performance -- you've made me laugh out loud ( a mixture of astonishment, pleasure and nervousness).
I'm with you on this. I think Drasko and I had more in mind the wild and flying sort of accents when you mentioned that word.
I don't know the Vatican recording, '86 is quite late in his career.
The Diapson disc from '67 contains the Fm Fantasie, op45 Prelude, Sonata 2 (I think his best performance of it, along with the one from Prague), 4 mazurkas, Ballade 1 and Andante Spianato.....
I uploaded 2 of the pieces to YT:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bmDJ857s4Xs
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cNxYr-qU2w4
oh god what an embarrassment. lol! You owe me a pint
You know your coach is mad when Robbie Keane doesn't even make the bench
Don't be silly, it was(is) a great post, you must have had far too much time on your hands back then...
But you're right, I do owe you a pint!
;D
Don't want to talk about football....
lol! Sorry. Some of it is good and useful, I think so, but the bottom is embarrassing and pretty much despicable. Not only is it horribly arrogant, but it sounds like a bad imitation of Dan Koren :'( :'( :'(
I must have written that before hearing Kemal Gekic (who'd go in the Greatest list)
Momo Kodama – Japanese pianist. Studied with Schiff, Nikolaeva, Perahia and Gornostaeva. Her immensely characterful and beautiful Chopin playing can hardly be attributed to her teachers. The disc on Exton contains an astonishing third scherzo, third sonata and fluid impromptus. In her late 20s, she has a great career ahead of her.
Not a pianist I'm familiar with, is this the disc you were originally referring to?:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chopin-Piano-Sonata-No-Scherzo/dp/B0013GBD9W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1232921419&sr=1-1
Anyway it's not really important. All these different readings means there's a lot to enjoy
A great repost so please don't delete it.
Yes, I would add Gekich to the list and I suppose that you'll have to write up Blechaz as well.
There is one notable, but not surprising omission in your survey (you may differ, of course). His recorded Chopin output just fills up one CD yet this is some of the best Chopin playing I've ever heard. I'm talking about Solomon Cutner, better known for his perusal of the classical period repertoire. I'm not sure if you've heard this but can I strongly suggest that you do. It was you, Tony, that put me onto Sokolov and one or two others so I'm trying to return the favour.
Maria Tipo – her complete nocturnes (EMI) are very beautiful indeed – slow, dark yet colourful, very moving. As are her complete ballades live on Aura. Very highly recommended.
I certainly agree about the Nocturnes. As for the Balllades, this release on Aura, I assume it's her 1979 performance? I have her live Ballades on Ermitage and was wondering if they are the same. The ballades are paired with the LvB Op 109 and a Mozart sonata.
Yeah dude it's the same one. Ermitage/Aura recordings are usually the same (I think Aura took over the rights later, something like that). The Ballades are very good but the Nocturnes are special. Some guy on YT uploaded a recording of her playing an excerpt of Schumann's Sym Etudes, I can't find it anywhere, so if you see that recording please let me know. Cheers
yeah that's the one, they re-released it and it's quite easy to get now. Her Messiaen Vingt Regards are pretty amazing too in perfect sound, one of the best recordings IMO. I have the Chopin CD and will copy it, awesome scherzo 3 IMO. Will take a week or two for me to get the disc though.
I've been told that Gekic will have 2 new CDs this summer, one of French music and one of the Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff PC 2s. I suspect the French disc would include Ravel's Gaspard which he played during his last tour of Japan
Hi
Can any of you guys give me some advice about Shura Cherkassky?
I own two Chopin CDs of his -- the Etudes and the two sonatas. I love all the Etudes and the Second sonata, and I want to hear more.
But people tell me that he was very variable -- sometimes he doesn't pull it off.
Are there any other Cherkassky recordings which you can recommend?
Hi Mandryka!
I listened to this one this week and loved it. . .
Interesting. I'll get that CD.
I guess you haven't tried this one in the same series.
Hi
Can any of you guys give me some advice about Shura Cherkassky?
Are there any other Cherkassky recordings which you can recommend?
any idea if the GPOC has the identical live recording of the Preludes as on the Orefo (Slazburg Aug 3, 1968)? In that case the former is rather more attractive.
The Orfeo is a 2cd, too, and the other pieces are Bach's BWV 830 e minor partita; Brahms Sonata op 5; Liszt 2nd Polonaise and a piece by the (then) contemporary composer Bennett.
The Chopin Preludes are wonderful. They are about the polar opposite of Arrau's Prague Spring interpretation: light instead of dark, but quite good.
What is the Arrau Prague Spring interpretation? I can only see one live concert CD of the Preludes, but an amazon review suggests it's from Salzburg.
http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Preludes-Schumann-Symphonic-Etudes/dp/B00005B6AK
any idea if the GPOC has the identical live recording of the Preludes as on the Orefo (Slazburg Aug 3, 1968)? In that case the former is rather more attractive.
George you're a big Rudolf Serkin fan. Did you ever hear his recording of Chopin's Preludes? I think Distler reviewed & raved about them. I haven't heard them, just curious
I'm listening to them right now and they don't sound live. No audience noise or rustling between movements. And if there's applause at the end it's been lopped off. They do sound perfectly spontaneous and they've been well recorded. If that helps.
No, I haven't. If you get more info, let me know?
Outside of Beethoven, Serkin hasn't really wowed me actually, but I am open to hearing his Chopin.
I think the disc is available commercially (or it was released as part of a biography on him, can't remember which or if both). Either way i can't imagine him as a Chopin pianist which is why I asked. Distler seemed quite impressed though. I'll try to track it down
I think the disc is available commercially (or it was released as part of a biography on him, can't remember which or if both). Either way i can't imagine him as a Chopin pianist which is why I asked. Distler seemed quite impressed though. I'll try to track it down
I am noticing how my tastes have evolved compared to when I last answered to a query like this.
Ballades: Ashkenazy, Barere.
Etudes: Ciani, Gavrilov, Cortot, Sokolov(op25)
Impromptus: Rubinstein, Sokolov
Mazurkas: Luisada Complete set, Sofronitsky, Kapell
Nocturnes: Tipo, Rubinstein, Moravec, Ciani
Barcarolle: Arrau, Cherkassy, Freire
Fantasie op 49 : Arrau, Cherkassy,
PS 2: Brand, Ashkenazy, Sokolov
PS 3: Sokolov, Chekassy
Preludes: Zhukov, Ashkenazy, Bolet, Pletnev, Sofronitsky
Waltzes: Rubinstein, Ashkenazy, Cortot
PC's: too many to name :P
I'm curious, are picks still the same almost 2 years later?I was pondering on the question... then I saw this on top of the page and had a Zen awakening 0:)
I was pondering on the question... then I saw this on top of the page and had a Zen awakening 0:)
Yeah, I agree that Chopin is not a composer that I think Serkin would excel in. The preludes were rerl;eased in that mid-priced "Art of Interpretation" series on Sony, now OOP. Amazon has a few copies: http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B0002F4C84/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
There's a long review in there too.
I don't think I'd ever buy it for that price, but if I find it in the bins I'll give it a try. However, I am not always in agreement with Distler's impressions.
Didn't realize it was so rare! I'll give it a spin in the next day or two.
If anybody is truly interested in hearing it, shoot me a PM.
In the Orfeo there is a moment, toward the end of the 2nd prelude that it becomes a duet for piano and piano stool. Same thing at the beginning of the 7th. And nr 9 is rather shaky.
Mikhail Pletnev – a worthwile Chopin disc on DG exists, and in the past he has played a selection of Chopin mazurkas in recital. Best of all, however, is almost certainly the radio broadcast of his op. 28 Preludes – exceptional performance, showing him at his most imaginative best.
I see that there are a couple of those Universal trios with Vasary's Chopin -- any opinions?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/216159VW2AL._SL500_AA180_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510GYFS5H1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I don't need to rely on my memory for this because at that time Tony used to have the whole world of music downloads at his fingertips and he sent me a cdr of this broadcast.
Vasary's interpretations seem rather middle of the road, but beautifully played -- quite enjoyable, although certainly no match for Rubinstein, Moravec, or Arrau.
Pletnev's next Amsterdam recital, if I recall, was all Chopin, and it was unbearable. Every note was funny, strange and twisted out of shape, and so was I after one-and-a-half hour of squirming in my seat. I made a vow never to go to a Pletnev recital again.
Does enyone know this Michelangeli recording -- Turin 1962?
Here's my favourite Gilels disc.
No one does the...Chopin better -- in my opinion.
Mandryka, for the second sonata there are severeal outstanding performances.
Natan Brand on Palexa
Ginzburg on Euromusica (100th anniversary, the one Rubio just bought)
Michelangeli either in Prague (Praga) or Prato (Diapason)
Fiorentino on APR
Rachmaninoff (of course)
The Gilels is a good one though, and of course there are other ones
I've pondered those trios a number of times, J, but never bought one. I have also owned that single CD you mentioned before as well, so I know what you mean about his playing.
David Dubal on Vasary (and his Chopin) - "he is a poet-pianist, a dreamy bard. For him music must first be beautiful. It must also be Romantic and emotional...Chopin is never far from his field. His multicolored imagination depicts this artful literature with all kinds of felicitous lingerings. He can also become over-refined; Vasary can suspend a not for so long that one wonders if the phrase will continue. In his quest for free improvised art, he occasionally gets caught up in detail and hovers dangerously at the brink of arrhythmic action, where formlessness lurks."
I have both and they are quite delightful ...
Good middle-of-the-road Chopin. I'd look for more interesting performances.
The most obvious comprehensive recommendation would be Rubinstein.
If you're interested in a particular genre, sonatas, mazurkas, nocturnes, scherzi, the picture gets more detailed.
Didya know there are two Testament cd's with pre-Decca recordings by Ashkenazy?
For some ideas and suggestions about Chopin recordings you could also cherrypick the old Fighting over Chopin thread.
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,38.0.html
Hilariously you can just google the words "Fighting over Chopin" and it's right there.
I guess no one has ever fought over Chopin before.
So besides the Rubinstein's set, which other set is worth collecting?
Being someone who likes to collect by buying sets, in the case of Chopin I don't think it is wise to collect Chopin in this manner.
That said, I enjoy much of Ashkenazy's Decca set.
I wish Moravec recorded everthing, that would be sweet.
Hi,
Who does the best Revolutionary Etude?
So besides the Rubinstein's set, which other set is worth collecting?
I believe the Decca set you have includes the 3 double-decker sets issued individually. No?
Rubinstein is the exception, but even then, as fine as his recordings are (and there are plenty!), there is so much more out there.
ezodisey's long-winded
Another boxset I will also mention is the Cziffra on EMI and whilst it's not a comprehensive set of Chopin of recordings, it has some stellar playing that many find irresistible, myself included. Askenase has a box on DG that has quite a full selection - nicely played, he certainly had a natural feel for the composer, but personally find it a bit lightweight and prissy, although kept the waltzes as enjoyed them a fair bit.
So besides the Rubinstein's set, which other set is worth collecting?
Hi,
Who does the best Revolutionary Etude?
Good advice! I would say that Rubinstein's Chopin was very good, but I still do not find him to be my favorite for any of the Chopin works, except for maybe bercuese.
I think it may be easy to almost dismiss Rubinstein, or take him for granted (and I'm not suggesting you are BTW), prolific as he was with Chopin. The more recordings I buy however, the more I realise what a great interpreter he was, whichever of the three 'phases' of his recordings you care to pull recordings from.
Speaking of Rubinstein, I'd say the core of his Chopin are the Mazurkas, and I'm very sorry but you need at least two incarnations of his Mazurkas.
I recall a rather different reading from Malcuzynski which is on a live Aura disc. Does anyone have that? I'd like to hear it again
The beauty is the middle set won't make the stereo mazurkas superfluous; you'll listen to both.
Funny you should ask. My wife and I did a listening test of various recordings of this piece a few months ago (it's her favorite etude). Of the dozen or so recordings that we have, we both ended up favoring Cziffra here (from the 1962 recordings of the complete Opp. 10 and 25, not his less magical 1981 take... the 1962 is available on the 5-CD set others have been mentioning).
When you say complete 1962 Etudes, would you be referring to the (in)famous 1962 Philips set? (Which can be found on GPOTC).
And how does the early set stack up to the two later ones?
I'm going to disagree (Fighting over Chopin) with all the knockers of box sets for Chopin. Either the Ashkenazy or Rubinstein set would be an excellent place to start for beginners. Sure, there are probably better performances out there but both sets are consistently good. I'd never get rid of any of my Rubinstein.
And how does the early set stack up to the two later ones?
I frankly advocate getting more of Rubinstein’s Chopin than is available in the 11 cd box.
I would take Leo Sirota's Chopin recording to the Desert Island -- for me, it's close to perfection.
The Sirota's wonderful, but the good news is, there are no desert islands!
Does anyone out there have tapes, or is there anyone who can point me in the right direction?
I don’t listen to those much, but other people do. Some clearly prefer the 78s Mazurkas. You'd have to listen for yourself. They're available on a Naxos 2cd.
I agree about the Rubinstein. People who say “I’d only keep the Rubinstein Berceuse” suffer from sophisticitis, and I frankly advocate getting more of Rubinstein’s Chopin than is available in the 11 cd box.
Can I ask what you mean by "sophisticitis?"
Oh, I wasn't meaning to be unkind. I just think it's a little funny to say of a monumental Chopin pianist "I'd keep the Berceuse" in the hypothetical desert island situation. Maybe because I'd at least want the entire Mazurkas and Nocturnes.
Even another volume with Tiegerman, scheduled as upcoming for quite some time, still hasn't come out.
It's nice we all seem to be agreed about Sirota
I'm scared of Tiegerman
I fear that the sound quality is so poor I'll just listen to it a couple of times and then it'll get relegated to the top shelf and will sit there for twenty years.
If you own it, tell me if I am right to be cautious.
I love Natan Brand's Chopin.
But I've started to think I must have bad taste -- someone just put me on to a review of this concert he gave in New York in 1983.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801E0D6163BF937A35751C0A965948260
I love Natan Brand's Chopin.
But I've started to think I must have bad taste -- someone just put me on to a review of this concert he gave in New York in 1983.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801E0D6163BF937A35751C0A965948260
Brand's overrated anyway
Agreed! Beautiful disc.
Now I have it too and can agree with you all. 0:)
Thank you!
Mine can't get here quick enough. :-[
I know you will not approve, but I downloaded mine. ;D
;D
I actually downloaded one track to check it out myself.
With something that old, you probably aren't missing much in terms of SQ anyway.
Hope it arrives soon!
Thanks.
I have, um, quite a few CDs in the cellophane anyway to keep me occupied. 8)
Tsk.
;)
What can I say, I'm a Hungry Ghost. :D
Very nice to see so many people enjoying that Sirota disc. Old school rules 8)
LOL, that was my first experience of 'old school' Chopin, and I thought, what on earth is he doing with with those treble chords in the main theme :D.
ETA: very scatty today. The above refers to op. 52 :-[ :P.
Per Tony's desire (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10923.msg273608.html#msg273608), another round of guess the pianist
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/Mazurka%20Op.24%20No.4.mp3[/mp3]
Mazurka 24/4
Per Tony's desire (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10923.msg273608.html#msg273608), another round of guess the pianist
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/Mazurka%20Op.24%20No.4.mp3[/mp3]
Mazurka 24/4
well that's a trip down memory lane, haven't heard it in ages, maybe years (and yes the more time the better)
I'll go with Malcuzynski ::)
Brendel
Piano roll?
lol! That far off huh? Well, I never really liked Malcuzynski's mazurkas. I'll give it another listen tonight. In fairness to myself I did not go past 30 seconds before guessing ::)
Am I reading this correctly? ;D
No.
Has Brendel ever recorded Chopin?
lol! That far off huh? Well, I never really liked Malcuzynski's mazurkas. I'll give it another listen tonight. In fairness to myself I did not go past 30 seconds before guessing ::)
My serious answer - Afanassiev?!!!.....Cherkassky, possibly?
Per Tony's desire (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10923.msg273608.html#msg273608), another round of guess the pianist
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/Mazurka%20Op.24%20No.4.mp3[/mp3]
Mazurka 24/4
Ok, I'll give you a big hint. Pianist in question was Malcuzynski's student, but new and improved ears you still are in dire need of.
Well, going by the piano used and the hint - Olejniczak?
(http://lads.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/thumbsup.jpg)
lol! Who the hell is that?
Polish pianist who among other things played Chopin in Zulawski's La Note Bleue. I'm sure Maciek knows more about his pianism than I, he records extensively for polish labels.
Thanks for that. Jesus Zulawski made a film about Chopin? :o That's gonna be insane. Have you seen it? I'm about to download his Boris Godunov after I finish downloading films by Wojciech Has
I've enjoyed this, and I'm thinking of buying Gekic's two sonata CDs.
Have anny of you guys tried them? Are they recommended?
the early one that you bought has Sonata 3 (the disc with Ballade 1)
There's also one with sonata 2: http://www.amazon.com/Kemal-Gekic-in-Concert/dp/B00000I7H4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234703294&sr=1-7
I like the disc with 3 more than 2
I don't know but I don't like it (http://operawebclub.com/papageno/style_emoticons/default/good.gif)
Happen to know the pianist (you should really delete tags before uploading).
Don't particularly like it either, fast and slick. Happen to know the pianist (you should really delete tags before uploading). Here is one to counterweight, shouldn't be difficult.
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/Waltz%2064-1.mp3 [/mp3]
Don't particularly like it either, fast and slick. Happen to know the pianist (you should really delete tags before uploading). Here is one to counterweight, shouldn't be difficult.
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/7/24/2018019/Waltz%2064-1.mp3 [/mp3]
Sorry, new to this, hadn't realised I'ld left them!
Gieseking, for those that didn't know...
Hofmann! — Love the thirds!
3. (Like the Hofmann, there are slight liberties taken at some point... would be the giveaway if you know it)
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/17/1357385/3.mp3[/mp3]
Thanks, I hadn't heard it before. No Chopin skill evidently ;D
By the way, which cD is that from?
3. (Like the Hofmann, there are slight liberties taken at some point... would be the giveaway if you know it)
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/17/1357385/3.mp3[/mp3]
I kept it from one of those Andante historical Chopin sets, voulme 1 IIRC. I kinda' of like the sweep of it...
2.
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/17/1357385/2.mp3[/mp3]
Aah, now you talking business 8) That is Rachmaninoff second recording, my favorite minute waltz by couple of very longshots.
I kept it from one of those Andante historical Chopin sets, voulme 1 IIRC. I kinda' of like the sweep of it...
Sorry, new to this, hadn't realised I'ld left them!
Gieseking, for those that didn't know...
[No. 3] is Rachmaninoff second recording, my favorite minute waltz by couple of very longshots.
[No. 2] could be Cziffra.
well there are all sorts of enjoyable readings
who's the first one?
The first two I didn't like much. On one of them, don't remember which, the term all-fingers comes to mind. Not sure who played any of these
I have an interesting g sharp minor prelude that I want to put up for your guesses, but it is not with me at the mom ;D
Nevertheless, I have a guess. ;D:D No, but one clue is that it will not be easily guessable (not because the pianist is not well known, but because the playing is quite out of her/his style)
Weissenberg?
Nevertheless, I have a guess. ;D
Weissenberg?
lol!
Did W record much Chopin? The piano concerti, and I used to have a rare live disc from Italy of him playing PC 2 (I think) and other rarely played Chopin works with orchestra. And he recorded Nocturnes, and the two sonatas. I don't remember much else now. Don't think he tried any preludes.
I have an interesting g sharp minor prelude that I want to put up for your guesses, but it is not with me at the mom ;DOK, here it is.
The ending is chopped off to discourage cheating $:)
First thought was Cherkassky, but since you said it's someone playing outside usual self, no idea.The playing reminded you of Cherkassy's general style? You may be right there. The "outside usual self" thing may merely be my interpretation of the pianist in question though. I am sure there are many who find her/his general approach warmer (big hint here :P ) than I do.
I don't know it but I'll go with PerahiaNo. Why him?
I'm gonna go with Richter... I have no idea if he ever recorded this prelude, but you mentioned that this performance is out of character, and I've heard some of Richter's Chopin. Doesn't sound anything like this! (I suppose I could say the same for pretty much anybody! :D)Not Richter either. This pianist -unlike Richter- is a superb Chopin player (docks down to dodge the bullets about to arrive from George) $:)
Not Richter either. This pianist -unlike Richter- is a superb Chopin player (docks down to dodge the bullets about to arrive from George) $:)
Ah, right, François. I thought this prelude was a mess, so that makes sense.
Ah, right, François. I thought this prelude was a mess, so that makes sense.Really? I am quite fond of his Chopin. I find him a little more distant than the music generally requires, but at times he brings a personal touch such as the case here.
That Sirota disc might be the most deeply beautiful playing I've ever heard. I don't know why but there feels something very profound about it (but without any affectation or conceit). Anyway I once asked Allan Evans if there'd be another Sirota release and I think he said they were planning one. Obviously nothing has happened. Even another volume with Tiegerman, scheduled as upcoming for quite some time, still hasn't come out. You do have a couple other options for more Sirota. I bought this set from Japan:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1080712
and unfortunately it wasn't very good. Sound is awful, really really bad, and the Chopin performances didn't seem all that good (it includes an earlier Ballade 4 which I didn't find as convincing). I was thinking that he'd give an interesting performance of Schumann's Sym Etudes but they were all uniformly slow without any contrast and for me it didn't work at all. I wouldn't recommend buying this.
The other option is this which I've never found:
http://www.amazon.com/Sirota-plays-Chopin-Schumann-Others/dp/B00000G2ID/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234095107&sr=1-8
Recently finished listening to Maria Tipo's recordings of the Nocturnes. Nicely done, an effortless, poetic sound, very satisfying.Agreed. It is one of my favorite nocturnes sets. None of that sticky, plaintive mood but still sounding very touching.
Argerich playing a Chopin mazurka earlier this month: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkzoPYhqRfU&fmt=18
This guy's so cool in the third sonata - he's become my favourite performer (apart from Bolet maybe)
Natan Brand – essential listening. Israeli-American pianist. Studied with Nadia Reisenberg (Hofmann pupil) and Dorothy Taubman. He was a truly imaginative virtuoso who followed in the line of Anton Rubinstein--both in artistic beliefs and lineage.
This guy's so cool in the third sonata - he's become my favourite performer (apart from Bolet maybe)
Listened to it a couple of times -- but can't say I enjoyed it.
I've never much enjoyed her playing though -- maybe it's a blind spot.
This guy's so cool in the third sonata - he's become my favourite performer (apart from Bolet maybe)
Listened to it a couple of times -- but can't say I enjoyed it.
I've never much enjoyed her playing though -- maybe it's a blind spot.
Any opinions on Nadia Reisenberg's Chopin? I see that Bridge has issued a 4 CD set of her Chopin. The set was mastered by Seth Winner.
can you link that please? Until now I don't think there's been much of a chance to hear her Chopin
Thanks, not a set I intend to buy but I like the repertoire with 1 big work (sonata 3)
With apologies if it's been brought up before, I'm quite intrigued by this set:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Afzmic4aL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I recall Wanderer purchasing it of late, but since these are apparently older recordings gathered in one box, I thought I'd ask for opinions from the entire resident Chopin collective. ;)
I got a copy of that set last week, actually, and am slowly working my way through it. I've listened to the Preludes and about half the Nocturnes so far, and was quite impressed by both on first hearing. Ohlsson takes a slow, rather ruminative approach in places, and while at times the tempo teeters close to collapse it never quite does, and indeed he does a fine job of never losing sight of the rhythm. It's not all about slowness, though, and at times he can also burst out with ferocious technique and speed. He's not doing a simpleminded "play the slow movements REALLY slow and the fast movements REALLY fast" kind of thing either; I dare say he has a very personal approach, at least in the few pieces I've heard so far. I'm really looking forward to hearing the rest of the set. Beautifully recorded too.
I also have the EMI recordings of the Preludes & Nocturnes that he did in the 1970s, and these are totally different -- you'd never know it's the same pianist, particularly in the Nocturnes. His EMI Nocturnes are good, but very straight-laced if not to say clinical, with tempi so regular one wonders at points if he's literally using a metronome. The Nocturnes from the complete set, OTOH, remind me a lot of Arrau or Moravec -- much freer in approach, each phrase carefully molded, the whole thing slower and quieter but even more powerful because of that.
I think next I'll see what he makes of the Etudes...
I haven't heard Fiorentino's 3rd, but love his 2nd.
Fiorentino is one of my favourite pianists period! Like Novi, I have him in the 2nd but haven't heard his 3rd. I'd be very interested in hearing his performance of it as well as the D960.
That Fiorentino disc is for sure tempting.
a couple of years ago i picked up a really cheap CD of Chopin nocturnes/etudes/fantasie-op49 played by an obscure pianist called Dubravka Tomsic and i was quite impressed. it may be bargain bucket, but i think this pianist's Chopin is really good and bears comparison with more famous names.
Please post your comments on this performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUiHBjQku0o
I also wonder if any of you have heard Rosita Renard. This VAI recording is quite tempting.
http://www.amazon.com/Rosita-Renard-at-Carnegie-Hall/dp/B000003LJ1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236282735&sr=1-1
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21ZRT3633AL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
a couple of years ago i picked up a really cheap CD of Chopin nocturnes/etudes/fantasie-op49 played by an obscure pianist called Dubravka Tomsic and i was quite impressed. it may be bargain bucket, but i think this pianist's Chopin is really good and bears comparison with more famous names.
I don't see much mention of William Kapell in this thread. How would you characterize his Chopin, and which CD's are highly recommendable?I have been listening to his Mazurkas CD (the first CD of the Kapell Edition set) with pleasure for a couple of years now. It is not a complete set by any means, but there is a pretty good selection from almost each published op. The sound quality is more than adequate.
I have been listening to his Mazurkas CD (the first CD of the Kapell Edition set) with pleasure for a couple of years now. It is not a complete set by any means, but there is a pretty good selection from almost each published op. The sound quality is more than adequate.
Kapell's playing of these pieces may indeed be my favorite along with Luisada. His approach is more dance than melancholy. I find them indispensable.
Thank you for the comment, orbital. Dance approach sounds appetizing to me, so I will proceed.You're very welcome. If you are fine with 256kbps mp3's, I think Amazon offers the CD download.
great disc, she had an amazing style for Chopin. I think George has that.
I do, but I have only heard it once, I need another listen to have anything to say about the 2 CD set.
I also wonder if any of you have heard Rosita Renard. This VAI recording is quite tempting.
http://www.amazon.com/Rosita-Renard-at-Carnegie-Hall/dp/B000003LJ1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236282735&sr=1-1
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21ZRT3633AL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
Presuming it's not selling for an outrageous price, buy the set. Don't get it for the Chopin especially. Just get it. It has essentially everything you'll likely ever find by Rosita Renard, and it acts as both a memento of special talent and a frustrating hint of what we as listeners might have enjoyed, had Ms. Renard received the kind of support she deserved (re touring and recording) at the beginning of her adult career.
More and more, I have begun to notice what a special label VAI is.
So you would recommend Pires' Preludes over say, Arrau or Bolet? Or would you recommend them as set nr 6?She is the kind of Chopin player I can't take (especially in large doses). Her nocturnes set was a big disappointment for me, and I don't think I played them past a couple of times. There is not reason to extra-romanticise the nocturnes like Pires does, because then they become those soggy tearjerkers which they are not.
Pires' Nocturnes didn't impress me too much. Except for the Op 15 ones I thought they were pretty much m.o.r.
She is the kind of Chopin player I can't take (especially in large doses). Her nocturnes set was a big disappointment for me, and I don't think I played them past a couple of times. There is not reason to extra-romanticise the nocturnes like Pires does, because then they become those soggy tearjerkers which they are not.
Her nocturnes set is generally well received IIRC -that's the reason I got them in the first place, so there is a good chance that you might like them. I can send you a couple of them to try out if you want.
Mandryka, if you want to hear a great performance of op. 25/11, you could try Ginzburg's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWgUAhTveSY
Someone has uploaded a video of Ginzburg playing waltz 64/2 which I guess is from that DVD released in Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkG4LEne_0U
There are a couple videos of Goldenweiser playing Chopin too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDUKntUFU9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtVuaws8so
I'm not saying they're great or anything
While we're on old school videos here's one of H. Neuhaus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Colki_YMhw8&
... I love in Winter Winds. And Richter too -- we must never forget Richter.
... in Winter winds I think he's very good indeed.
I agree. Are you referring the Prague version?
After hearing her preludes, I decided to seek out a copy of the Nocturnes.
When I first started listening to classical music, I had a narrow definition of pianists/composers/works that I enjoy. As a result of coming here, I was encouraged to expand my definition of what I found to be acceptable and ultimately enjoyable. As a result, I have enjoyed many pianists/composers/works that I probably never would have given a second thought. I expected that the pendulum would swing back and I would begin to narrow my focus again, to a more reasonable degree. For some reason, this never really happened. I haven't (perhaps yet?) found a specific taste for certain composers/works. Who knows? Perhaps it will change in the future. Sure would save me a lot of money. ;D Until that day (if it comes), I will enjoy the journey.
Re my interest in Fiorentino, I just noticed that someone has posted him playing the complete Chopin Etudes -- opus 10 and opus 25 -- on youtube.
They sound excellent to me.
There must have been a recording of him doing this -- does anyone know if it is available anywhere?
Yes, probably on LP and possibly by Saga on CD but both are well oop. APR have plans to release them (along with other Chopin works).
The SF discography site set up by Lumpe is down at the moment. In it he lists all the recordings of SF and also warns of ones, from the Concert Artists label (Barrington-Coupe), that are suspicious. From memory I believe that the Etudes are genuine.
Where on Youtube is this?
Here's a link to Opus 10 No 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q971rlKk_x0
I plan on taking the set off with this rather marvelous tool:
http://www.listentoyoutube.com/index.php
I sent a message to the guy who uploaded them thanking him and asking for info about the recording.
By the way do you know about the Fiorentino Schubert disc? Not the D960 but this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Sonatas-Nos-13-Impromptus/dp/B000094PWQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236718363&sr=8-2
Gekic is my favorite living pianist.I have not heard enough to form a definitiv opinion yet. He certainly has a great technique and touch.
I have not heard enough to form a definitiv opinion yet. He certainly has a great technique and touch.
First and foremost, his ability to bring out voices that have generally been left in the dark by most other pianists. I have never heard a sonata no3 that sounds this contapuntal.
But the end result (not only for the first movement alone, but the whole piece) is too scholarly and is almost as it was played alongside a metronome.
I think my favorite b minor sonata is that of Virsaladze's on her Russian Piano school CD.
Gekic is my favorite living pianist.
Thanks for that - enjoying them now!
I have that Schubert disc it is excellent, but then again most of what SF does is.
I think he's good -- those Chopin Etudes are outstanding as is the second of the Scherzos on that CD.
I can't stand the way he plays the third scherzo from that recital. I think it sounds awful, no taste, all disjointed and flashy. The first is one of the greatest Chopin performances ever IMO though
well you might not agree of course+ Bolet. + Rubinstein (early on Naxos) + Moiseiwitch. I need to check Richter -- can't remember, but I expect it was a great performance since it suits his extroversion.
some great performances of the first scherzo - Gekic, Brand, Pogorelich, Sirota and others I'm sure
I'm curious, are picks still the same almost 2 years later?George, I owe you an apology for being so late in coming back to this :-[ :-[ :-[
To continue a discussion begun on the previous board:
Off the top of my head:
Preludes: Argerich for a white-hot, extrovert performance. Moravec for a more poetic, subdued take. Both are emotional, though here (and below) I don't know about which is truer to the score.
Nocturnes: Rubinstein's second set, comes on two CD's with a great recording of the Scherzos. Or Moravec, again for his gorgeous tone and better sonics. Or Arrau, who I enjoy most of all for his deep, expressive readings.
Ballades: I really like Perahia here in all four. I like Rubinstein for a more extrovert approach.
Mazurkas: Luisada is great, very romantic with tons of rubato. Rubinstein is good too.
Etudes: Richter's my favorite here, but he didn't record them all. Ashkenazy has more refinement, but still is intense. Perahia is a bit less intense, but very poetic.
Waltzes: I recently got Lipatti here and enjoy his playing. For better sound and great performance and value, Ashkenazy is excellent. His set includes the Preludes and the Schuerzos. This 2 CD set is a great intro to his Chopin, which I find solid, consistent and impressive. Haven't heard Rubinstein, but I know that the issue on RCA red seal is a better, clearer transfer than the one that appeared in the AR Collection.
Scherzos: Rubinstein, either coupled with his Nocturnes or his later version coupled with the Ballades. Richter has these recorded with many but not all of the Preludes on Regis.
Polonaises: Ashkenazy is the only one I have heard, but they are so good I haven't looked elsewhere.
Sonatas: For all three, I really love Andsnes. His are avail cheap too. Also, Ashkenazy's are coupled with his superb Etudes. Many other pianists have recorded individual sonatas, but I think its better to start with all three, especially since #1 is neglected.
Concertos: Argerich/Dutoit great performance and sonics.
George, I owe you an apology for being so late in coming back to this :-[ :-[ :-[
Ballades: Barere's truncated 4th still rules for me. As for the complete set Ashkenazy is replaced by Gavrilov. I've heard many wonderful 1st ballades in the meantime though. Gekic's revelatory performance comes to mind of course. and that one by Zafariants, too)
Etudes: Ciani, Gavrilov, Cortot, Sokolov(op25) - no essential change here.
Impromptus: Rubinstein, Sokolov (Francois can be added now)
Mazurkas: Luisada Complete set, Sofronitsky, Kapell - no change here either.
Nocturnes: Tipo, Rubinstein, Moravec, Ciani (I have not samples any new complete sets since... maybe Ciccolini might be after, but he is too solemn for my taste)
Preludes: Zhukov, Ashkenazy, Bolet, Pletnev, Sofronitsky (I don't know what I was thinking putting Sofronitsky in there. The more I listened to his set, the more dull it started to sound. So it is nowhere near top choice for me anymore. Take him out and add Pogorelich)
Please don't forget Lipatti's teacher Alfred Cortot. :)
Besides the pianists you mentioned, in 1999 I attended Lasar Berman's concert in Hong Kong. His Chopin and Liszt were so great but it's quite difficult to find his CDs.
...I have all three Rubinstein [Nocturnes] now and I think I like the first one best.
I have them as well, but I'm still undecided. The stereo was my first and only Nocturnes for a while (other than excerpts from Vasary), so I guess I imprinted on it. I've been listening to mostly 50's Rubinstein for Chopin for a couple of weeks now, and it's definitely growing on me, but the stereo Nocturnes (and Mazurkas, and Ballades & Scherzi) are awfully darn good.
Re:Gavrilov... I think the CD was coupled with the 2nd sonata. Very good performances (as far as the set goes) IMO. My opinion of Gavrilov is quite high despite his peculiarities of late >:D His GPOC set has the Rachmaninov MM's, so I'll try and get that one soon.
This is one of the reasons I asked for your list, I didn't even know that Gavrilov recorded them. No love for Tipo or Moravec, huh? Gulda's are very interesting IMO.
I've heard all but the Ciani, is he your fave?Close to being my fave. The good part is they are live, so there is so much raw energy and tension throughout. I love it.
Here and elsewhere, which Rubinstein do you mean?Good question ;D I like his earlier (30s) mazurkas for sure. As for the nocturnes, his 50s recording. The same for the ballades (except that critical mistake in the 4th!) and scherzi.
Will get to Sofronitsky soon, as you know I love the Luisada ones. I also love Maryla Jonas's.I would recommend Kapell as well. I haven't had the chance to try out Jonas' beyond a couple.
I have all three Rubinstein now and I think I like the first one best. Tipo is great of course, as is Moravec.I don't think I've heard the middle one (Rubi).
I need to hear that Pletnev again. Yes Pogo is great, as is Cortot's 1926? recording on Naxos. Haven't heard Zhukov, is he your fave?Preludes are a special treat when they are live. This one is, so is Bolet's (plus there is the revered Arrau live which I still didn't hear... I think ::)) I have a recording of Zhukov coupled with Scriabin's op11 preludes. Very forceful approach. Here is the sample of the all important no.12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ2KQ9Oh0lY
Preludes: Zhukov, Ashkenazy, Bolet, Pletnev, Sofronitsky (I don't know what I was thinking putting Sofronitsky in there. The more I listened to his set, the more dull it started to sound. So it is nowhere near top choice for me anymore. Take him out and add Pogorelich)
I have a recording of Zhukov coupled with Scriabin's op11 preludes. Very forceful approach. Here is the sample of the all important no.12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ2KQ9Oh0lY
I world love to have that recording. Is it the complete preludes, or just a selection?Complete Op28, but the Op11 Scriabins are incomplete.
I like Zhukov very much and I have heard his Preludes on youtube and like them a lot.Sonatas, op8 and op11 [and his Chopinesque PC] are probably my favorite Scriabin piano pieces. They are like nothing else. I recommend you give Softonitsky's op.11 a listen if you haven't had the chance to. A complete set may or may not be in existence. I do have a complete set, but sonics suggest they are collected from different recordings.
I know Zhukov's Scriabin Op.11, and I agree that they are good -- but to be honest I don't much like the music.
Re Mazurkas, I find it hard to enjoy complete sets -- mazurka after mazurka after mazurka after mazurka . . . ; they don't seem to fit together too well either. So I tend to go for selections -- I think I like Jonas most, and Michelangeli.I don't listen to whole sets in one sitting myself although there have been occasions when I've done that. They can get tiring, of course. Michelangeli recorded very few of them right? I like those that I've heard. The precious few that Moravec recorded are also worth checking out.
Zhukov -
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=8517fa91b1f0f3714012e8015643d9c8e8f422d5efe75ddd
These are all live recordings. Some cracking stuff in there IMO
Zhukov -
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=8517fa91b1f0f3714012e8015643d9c8e8f422d5efe75ddd
These are all live recordings. Some cracking stuff in there IMO
Michelangeli recorded very few of them right? I like those that I've heard. The precious few that Moravec recorded are also worth checking out.
Zhukov -
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=8517fa91b1f0f3714012e8015643d9c8e8f422d5efe75ddd
These are all live recordings. Some cracking stuff in there IMO
Thanks Simon! :)
Thankyou. I've been looking for that for ages.
Much obliged, very curious to hear his Preludes :)
Etudes: Ciani. . .
Ballades: Barere's truncated 4th still rules for me.
I've heard people mention this guy over the years, but I have never heard him play.
Well -- your comment made me curious again so I checked him out on youtube -- there's a nocturne: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqoCR2R6eL8
It seems very interesting to me. I'm curious about what other people think of this pianist as the only way to hear his etudes seems to involve a non - trivial investment in a 6 CD box!
I like that too. But I think I prefer Moiseiwitsch.
I've heard people mention this guy over the years, but I have never heard him play.He also has a live nocturnes set. It may be one of the very few instances where listening to their recording may beat actually being there :D
Well -- your comment made me curious again so I checked him out on youtube -- there's a nocturne: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqoCR2R6eL8
It seems very interesting to me. I'm curious about what other people think of this pianist as the only way to hear his etudes seems to involve a non - trivial investment in a 6 CD box!
He also has a live nocturnes set. It may be one of the very few instances where listening to their recording may beat actually being there :D
Why is that?21 nocturnes in a row is not the ideal Chopin program IMO. Too one dimensional... put a scherzi in there between every 4 or so op. $:)
21 nocturnes in a row is not the ideal Chopin program IMO. Too one dimensional... put a scherzi in there between every 4 or so op. $:)
I just brushed the dust off this CD -- hadn't heard it for years.
And yes, it is very very good (at least in the Etudes . Haven't played the Waltzes yet.)
There's a great pulse and verve to the Etudes. Tempos seem always just right. He makes a really clear clean sound from the piano. All the voices are really nicely layered. You get a good sense of the structure to the longer Etudes. Technically he's pretty damn good. He can play the fast etudes fast. The singing passages flow. And there's never too much cloying melancholy -- I think he's really at his best in the Etudes which sparkle -- The Revolutionary etude was very nice, as was the Butterfly (I like those nicknames!)
I think I prefer him to Cherkassky, and I think I like him more than Ginsberg in the Opus 10s.
If I may ask: when Simon plays the "complete" Waltzes, how many are we looking at? Fourteen or more?
Ginsberg recorded Op 10?
No worries, hope you enjoy what you hear :)
You get 19 waltzes. I think that's the whole shooting match, except for one which is of disputed authenticity, and, of course, the lost waltzes.
In that case I'll tentatively go one step further than I did in the original post -- Abbey Simon's CD is the best non historical (i.e. not Cortot or Moiseiwitsch ) Opus 10 performance I know (there are big lacunas to what I've heard though -- I haven't heard Cziffra, for example)
I really don't need to hear more than one or two wlatzes in a recital, but the thing all recordings I have are 1 - 14 and maybe I'd like to have the post-posthumous ones, too.
BTW I seem to recall there was a discussion on the old forum in which a surprizing number of people agreed that the Lipatti Waltzes is rather overrated. The recording may be a self-perpetuating legend.
The two studio recordings also differ from each other with one of them being what I call 'effeminate' in its approach.
I was one of those but have slightly revised my opinion since hearing the almost complete set from the Besancon recital. These are actually quite passable but would still not rate in my top 3. (Ashkenazy, Anievas and Cziffra).
Which Cziffra—early '60s (14 waltzes) or late '70s (19 waltzes)?
I think my favorite b minor sonata is that of Virsaladze's on her Russian Piano school CD.
I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
Listenting to it now, and it makes quite an impact.
Thanks for putting me on to it.
I've decided that I like Weissenberg's Chopin -- a lot.
I haven't heard the concertos, but in the solo music it's marvelous the way he takes away all the fuzzy romantic mist -- and you can hear so clearly the harmonies, the different voices.
It's as if he finds the counterpoint -- but I think it still sings.
I have heard some people say his Chopin is monochromatic, mechanical, angry. Well -- not what I have heard.
He's not perfect like Michelangeli. But he does something with the music that I find really interesting and expressive. And although it may fly in the face of performance traditions and (for all I know) the score itself, I think it is so authentically and poetically done that I am happy to hear it.
Anyway -- I thought I'd just see if there were any other Weissenberg fans around.
Anyway -- I thought I'd just see if there were any other Weissenberg fans around.(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:rJJtiCWdwa4kKM:http://www.filmreference.com/images/sjff_01_img0485.jpg)
Thanks for your description, I am now curious to hear some of his Chopin, especially the Ballades or Scherzos. His Rachmaninov preludes were not quite my cup of tea so I am cautious...I am not sure if I've heard his Ballades ::) I have to check. But his nocturnes and sonatas are not very interesting. If you want to hear something, I'd recommend you start with the concerti (but you don't like them much, right?)
I am not sure if I've heard his Ballades ::) I have to check. But his nocturnes and sonatas are not very interesting. If you want to hear something, I'd recommend you start with the concerti (but you don't like them much, right?)
I like his Rachmaninov. If you want something you are not going to like for sure, try his Debussy >:D
I But his nocturnes and sonatas are not very interesting.
Well -- what I'm saying is -- what I have become fascinated by is that he brings out the counterpoint.There is counterpoint. We had a long and very educating discussion about cp in Chopin a while ago. Some insights by Luke in that thread have opened my ears to a very different Chopin, in fact. And after hearing Gekic play the g minor ballade, there is no doubt in my mind that Chopin did not only include cp in his music but he had mastered it.
You may say it's counterpoint which doesn't really exist -- but I'm not so sure. He emphasises the way all the different tunes all twist and dance around each other.
Also there's a cleanness about his piano tone which I like -- there's a place for the romantic soft focus of someone like Pletnev or Moravec, but I think it's refreshing to hear it played all sharp.Yes, I can understand that. THat's why I mentioned Francois. Maybe he is not as sharp but his anti-romantic approach in general satisfies my thirst for such Chopin.
And I think that's very interesting. Especially in the nocturnes which can suffer from being over romanticised. You know what I mean -- played too plaintively.God, I've grown to hate that. I can't bring myself to listen to the likes of Pires or Arrau in Nocturnes. Stop with the whining and play already ;D
I can imagine his Debussy may be a bit forceful -- a bit too much sf. But I'm happy to give it a try.It is forceful, yes. It would not be my first choice, but it is almost a guilty pleasure to hear some Debussy that is not dreamy.
Well -- what I'm saying is -- what I have become fascinated by is that he brings out the counterpoint.
You may say it's counterpoint which doesn't really exist -- but I'm not so sure. He emphasises the way all the different tunes all twist and dance around each other.
. This is not the same BTW as putting the bottom on top, so to speak.
THat's why I mentioned Francois.
it is almost a guilty pleasure to hear some Debussy that is not dreamy.
I must say I am gobsmacked by Michelangeli's Debussy.
Me too, buddy! :)
What are some of the best Michelangeli's recordings? I think I have some on DG LP but have to search for it ...
...manfully handled by Janusz Olejiczak...
the pianist I have not been able to name that plays the Tausig re-orchestrated version is very good,
If you're interested in other achievements of Mr.Setrak (that is usually how's he billed) he recorded complete Bizet piano music on HM (had no idea Bizet composed for piano, let alone two disc worth).
There is counterpoint. We had a long and very educating discussion about cp in Chopin a while ago. Some insights by Luke in that thread have opened my ears to a very different Chopin, in fact. And after hearing Gekic play the g minor ballade, there is no doubt in my mind that Chopin did not only include cp in his music but he had mastered it.
Yes, I can understand that. THat's why I mentioned Francois. Maybe he is not as sharp but his anti-romantic approach in general satisfies my thirst for such Chopin.
Chopin and Weissenberg, for me, is like clash of the titans. But Chopin wins :-*
God, I've grown to hate that. I can't bring myself to listen to the likes of Pires or Arrau in Nocturnes. Stop with the whining and play already ;D
It is forceful, yes. It would not be my first choice, but it is almost a guilty pleasure to hear some Debussy that is not dreamy.
His Scarlatti recordings are a must too, if you have not heard them yet. Can you imagine him in K87?
How about this EMI 3-LP set? I have owned this pristine set for 20 years - played probably only once ...
And how was it?
It was probably at least 10 years since I last played it. The piano playing was excellent from what I can remember ...
Ten years between playings? No wonder I don't bother with vinyl anymore! It's just too perishable. I don't suppose that was ever released on cd, or was it? No matter, it would be oop by now, anyway. Pity!
Ten years between playings? No wonder I don't bother with vinyl anymore! It's just too perishable. I don't suppose that was ever released on cd, or was it? No matter, it would be oop by now, anyway. Pity!
I think I used to buy weed from that dude in high school. ;D
Seriously, though - it looks like sidoze was also interested in this pianist's work as well (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.recordings/browse_frm/thread/1becc18273f965c/eeb43266eb38e0b1?lnk=gst&q=Amoyel+Nocturnes+Chopin+#eeb43266eb38e0b1) Perhaps if he returns he have something to say about the CDs.
Quoting your link:It is an 1836 piano, original parts. The samples are accurate. I looooooove that Boegner disc ... one of my favorites, almost the only nocturnes I listen to these days 8)
I've read a couple that cite his complete Chopin Nocturnes as a reference recording.
Reference Recording? That doesn't happen often, but then again that's from French critics writing about a French pianist. If I can't find it available here for a reasonable price, I may just buy it at Itunes. The samples sound very, very good as opposed to samples of Michèle Boegner's Nocturnes Integrale which sound awful! The samples I heard make the piano sound as if it has a warped, or in some other way damaged soundboard. I only hope that those samples do not actually reflect the sound of the album accurately. If the piano does have a bad soundboard, which is entirely possible with a piano from 1836, then they shouldn't be using it except as a curiousity, certainly not for an intégrale.
It is an 1836 piano, original parts. The samples are accurate. I looooooove that Boegner disc ... one of my favorites, almost the only nocturnes I listen to these days 8)
It is an 1836 piano, original parts. The samples are accurate. I looooooove that Boegner disc ... one of my favorites, almost the only nocturnes I listen to these days 8)
Late last night I was going through Itunes on my Ipod Touch looking for a new recording of Chopin's Nocturnes and came across the recording shown below. Further "research" came up with a 10/10 review at ClassicsToday France by Christophe Huss. It's also available as a download from Amazon, but there's no sign of it ever having been released as a cd in the USA -- no listing at ArkivMusic.com and nothing at BRO either. Has anyone heard this, or heard about it? I hesitate because it's a pain ordering from the EC nowadays because of the constantly fluctuating currencies, and the nasty fees being charged by the credit cards for the currency exchange services, so I really want to make sure that it's going to be worth every penny I would be shelling out. Btw, the samples at Itunes and Amazon sound really nice. Note: the cover shown at Amazon download store is for a different album; Itunes shows the correct cover.
Chopin Nocturnes (Intégrale) - Pascal Amoyel
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SS400_.jpg)
How many sets do you own?Arrau, Pires, Rubenstein, Boegner. Not too many.
Arrau, Pires, Rubenstein, Boegner. Not too many.
Arrau, Pires, Rubinstein, Boegner. Not too many.
You might want to check out Moravec's Nocturnes.
You might want to check out Moravec's Nocturnes.
At the end of last year a Diapason d'Or was awarded to Nelson Goerner's recordings from the Chopin HIP series I mentioned once (a long time ago on the other thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4659.msg134111.html#msg134111)). Has anyone heard those? Could anyone comment?
That's the series I was asking about half a year ago.
I always wanted to hear this but didn't get around to it. Review it if you download it please
Just found this great Chopin link (http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/chopinwaltzes.html) :)
I think I used to buy weed from that dude in high school. ;D
;D
B flat minor sonata -- Alfred Cortot -- Naxos (Obert-Thorn) -- rec. 1953Shoot! I thought about ordering that earlier this year when it was on sale for $5 at MDT, but didn't. :( :(
This combines the drama of Natan Brand with the intensity and singing legato of Michelangeli.
The sound is very good -- it's like having Cortot playing in your living room.
It's mindbogglingly great.
What I now need to do is reappraise his earlier recordings in the light of what I now know about the piano tone he made.
And what sonority!-- so dramatic, at times percussive even, at times hallucinatory.
Shoot! I thought about ordering that earlier this year when it was on sale for $5 at MDT, but didn't. :( :(
I got a ton of those Naxos CDs on my wishlist. I am sure another sale will come along. :)
The only problem is the same MDT deals on Naxos Historical that were offered back in March will not be quite as good since the exchange rate has gone from the 1.40's to almost 1.70's.
True, but those Naxos are a steal even at their current price IMO.
I imagine that Chopin Piano Sonata performance is also in the multi-volume Cortot Chopin series on Naxos? Can you tell me the date of that recording, Mandryka?
1953
You gotta get it George -- it is a real revelation.
Sure -- it's a bit of a fast interpretation.
And maybe there are slips -- but they don't bother me at all.
What is amazing is you can actually hear what St Alfred Cortot sounded like in this sonata -- the piano sound is like, hi fi quality.
And that gives you a completely fresh perspective on those earlier recordings.
I'll add to my bulging, 16+ page wishlist. ;D
At the end of last year a Diapason d'Or was awarded to Nelson Goerner's recordings from the Chopin HIP series I mentioned once (a long time ago on the other thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4659.msg134111.html#msg134111)). Has anyone heard those? Could anyone comment?
I have the Maryla Jonas cd and it's pretty cool.
Askenase has a box on DG that has quite a full selection - nicely played, he certainly had a natural feel for the composer, but personally find it a bit lightweight and prissy, although kept the waltzes as enjoyed them a fair bit.
I have a cold (hope it's not flu.)
I am going to listen again to all Pletnev's Chopin this weekend.
Does anyone have any bootlegs? -- I have the Amsterdam Preludes and I am looking forward to revisiting them
Me to, bro. I am dosing every three hours with The Wellness Formula. (http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1345/)
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/archipelrecordsarpcd0422.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RSNY39S6L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Recently, Archipel published some 1950's recordings by Stefan Askenase - a 2CD mix with various Chopin, the Kinderszenen and 2 Mozart concerti.
We don't hear much about this polish pianist. He was probably best Known as a prestigious teacher in Brussels (one of his students was Martha Argerich) but he performed and recorded quietly, mostly Chopin, in the 1950-70’s. The 2004 DG Original Masters set may help a new generation to (re)discover him.
This is the kind of pianist who could not have a glittering career at the concert stage. His way is not fast, dazzling nor brilliant. But when you take the time to listen there is, at least for me, a subtle, imaginative and very individual handling of the musical phrasing. Somehow I find myself enjoying his individual mixture of slow tempi, a very crystalline tone and a tasteful but very free use of rubato and dynamics. Old school sensibility perhaps but the musical artistry was certainly there.
Carlos
Not a recording, but this performance is getting discussion elsewhere, so I thought I'd post a link here:
http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/ev/fiche.php?eve_id=255000185
It's Alexei Volodine playing Chopin's Barcarolle and the complete Preludes live. (Streaming)
The Barcarolle was very ordinary indeed and while there were some nice moments in the Preludes this is very middle of the road Chopin. The best description I can come up with of the playing is monochromatic.
I'm guessing this for Moravec?
http://www.ivanmoravec.net/albums/al-4569102.html (http://www.ivanmoravec.net/albums/al-4569102.html)
If it's getting rave reviews then the reviewers haven't heard the likes of: Cortot, Argerich, Fiorentino, Sokolov, Bolet, Arrau, Orozco, Pollini etc.
A couple of days ago I listened / watched the Volodin in Nantes recital, too, and was severely unimpressed, particularly as it was presented by some people as the Second Coming. What struck me most was how uninteresting Volodin's rhythms are. Especially in preludes with an 'accompanying' left hand this was a big problem. No fluid motion whatsoever, just strict observation of the beat. I suspect it's not easy to perform the Opus 28 in its entirety (although I see no other way in this day and age), and Volodin seems primarily focused on making it to the end without mishaps, even though he seems amply gifted techically. On the other hand, the Baracarolle wasn't sensational either.
I have Samson François in the Ballades, Scherzos, Preludes, Mazurkas and Études. I find his tone a bit 'clear', but he finds a narrative tread in everything he plays. His Chopin is never blocky or rythmically dull.
I don't know a better modern reading of the Mazurkas.
How do you like the rest of Samson's EMI Chopin set? I have resisted buying it for quite awhile.
Today DG released a CD that those rascals conveniently left out of the solo box that was released last year. It's from the very beginning of her career and is all Chopin. Samples sound great!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lDLeU9djL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Argerich-Plays-Chopin-Martha/dp/B002KL3G1C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266338760&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Argerich-Plays-Chopin-Martha/dp/B002KL3G1C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266338760&sr=1-1)
George, any plan to buy this one?
Yes, the samples sound excellent.
I find it hard to believe this recording has never been released before ...
Samson François in the 24 Études. To my ears this sounds better (sonically) than some of his other recordings. Fanciful and dramatic, more interesting than most.
I'm pissed that it wasn't included in the solo DG box that was released last year. >:(
EMI France should be coming out with set of his complete recordings, 30 something CDs I'm told, later this year.
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/4553572.jpg)
I just listened to his Ballades 1 and 2 at lunch for the first time. At first, I thought it sounded a bit crude, a bit rushed, but as I continued to listen, I liked it a lot more. I love his intensity.
Those are some of the oldest recordings in the set and the technical quality of the recordings is an obstacle for me. The Sonatas are more recent stereo recordings and have impressive intensity.
What do you think of his way with the Second Sonata?
To me, it lacked any sort of repose -- and I felt that was a real shortcoming.
Really? They just released a box with his complete Chopin recordings (10 CDs) are they doing a second box with all EMI recordings?
I am hard pressed to imagine where one would be reposing in that Sonata.
I have the feeling this whole François craze here is just a fatigue symptom. If you want to keep making new Chopin interp discoveries, at some point you wind up with guys like Samson 'Steel Fingers' François.
Years ago I would have gotten this EMI box and checked it out one more time, but I won't. Perhaps it's my loss, but I haven't been losing any sleep over it.
IMO repose is a better word than relax. You can repose and retain intensity. And I think a certain degree of repose is a necessity.
I think he smoked and drank to much in later life -- hence the deterioration.
Just listened to Francois' recordings of a few of the Polonaises.
Samson François in the 24 Études. To my ears this sounds better (sonically) than some of his other recordings. Fanciful and dramatic, more interesting than most.
The problem is that no pianist has really come forward to take their place. We've been in a state of hiatus for a number of years now with no clear candidate emerging.
Hi Holden,
I agree with your statement above, with three exceptions: Pogorelich (though he hasn't recorded any Chopin as of late), Wasowski (I love his Nocturnes and his Mazurkas) and Gekic (I love everything this guy does and his Chopin is no exception.)
Since I am off topic, I moved my answer to this thread.
Tharaud?
Not IMO. I didn't like his preludes at all.
His waltzes are better. At least he tries to be interesting
His waltzes are better. At least he tries to be interesting
Interesting is good, I agree. Like any interpretation though, it either connects or it doesn't. I know others enjoy Tharaud's Chopin, which is a good thing.
I've been slowly getting to know the old masters myself - Rosenthal, Pachmann, Bolet, Fiorentino, Godowsky, Koczalski, Saperton (etudes) and Hofmann.
What of Vasary's set of recordings on DG, from the 60's I think and available on a pair of those "trio" releases. I have some Vasary recordings, Debussy, which I enjoy. Is his Chopin noteworthy?
Don't forget Friedman. Get his Mazurkas on Naxos. The transfers are great.
What of Vasary's set of recordings on DG, from the 60's I think and available on a pair of those "trio" releases. I have some Vasary recordings, Debussy, which I enjoy. Is his Chopin noteworthy?
Tharaud?
Don't forget Friedman. Get his Mazurkas on Naxos.
In fact, for me there's much to be said for post-78 era Chopin playing on disc:
Not IMO.
If you are after an inexpensive Chopin set, I suggest the budget Rubinstein box on RCA
You forgot four of the best: Pletnev and Virsladze and Pollini and Weissenberg.
If you are after an inexpensive Chopin set, I suggest the budget Rubinstein box on RCA or the somewhat more expensive set by Ashkenazy on Decca.
I've never really cared for Pollini's Chopin -
Me neither. Except for his Etudes, which are impressive IMO.
I still need to hear his earlier EMI Chopin CD, as I have heard that it's good.
I hate them. He plays them like they are peasant dances.
Not recommended by me -- he's lost the magic touch by then I think.
Who do you like in the Mazurkas, then? Chopin himself played them with extremely bent time. Have you heard Kapell?
Someone mentioned Zoltan Koscics set of Chopin Waltzes earlier
Katsaris really makes the music his own -- when I listen I am often surprised by his nuances, by melodies which he brings out which I hadn't noticed before. Speeds are inclined to be slow.
Has anyone here heard any other Chopin from him? (I haven't)
Me neither. Except for his Etudes, which are impressive IMO.
Dang, I just recently let go of his Etudes...oh well, too late for another go-round... :(
After hearing Ashy (who is regarded by many as being one of the very best in the Chopin etudes, as I am sure you know) one hears how Pollini has this in the palm of his hand.
The only problem with Pollini's DG Etudes and Preludes is there is no music there.
No matter, it's mostly his technical prowess that is impressive.
a habit of keeping the quotes brief.
I know what you're saying, but my post was only three lines long. Editing it, in this case, misrepresented my point.
In all fairness, he never said he explicitly disagreed with you, or interpreted your comment to begin with. :)
It appears that he does disagree, based on the fact that he only quoted part of my post.
You lost me, here.
but perhaps nothing derisive was intended by lopping off part of his post.
The only problem with Pollini's DG Etudes and Preludes is there is no music there.
As I'm writing this the 10/1 link you posted is playing, and it is completely bereft of any nuance. This piece can be played in such a way that it becomes a beautiful opening of a enchanting narrative. Pollini's just playing a ton of notes, with perfect control, indeed, but that's just typing.
No matter, it's mostly his technical prowess that is impressive. Like here, where he's crystal clear and clean - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHgeDPhkts
Check out Ashkenazy for a comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo
After hearing Ashy (who is regarded by many as being one of the very best in the Chopin etudes, as I am sure you know) one hears how Pollini has this in the palm of his hand.
Ashkenazy sounds to me as though he has an anger management problem -- but I can see there are nice things in it.
For nuance, Richter is outstanding. Just listen to that sadness which pervades the interpretation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKTG3ptpyU
And Cziffra plays it relatively monochromatic and uncharismatic. But this isn't aggressive and he makes it sound like real exciting music -- adventurous like a Liszt TE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTwRyYIPmj4
I agree. As an example of pure bravura it is stunning but Gavrilov is even more impressive.
I'll have to listen to Gavrilov (and Anievas) again. To me, this prelude is mostly bravura, so I prefer an interpretation along those lines.
I am tempted to give Vlado Perlemuter a try, though I know you are not too crazy about his Chopin playing ...
I agree. As an example of pure bravura it is stunning but Gavrilov is even more impressive.
But if you want nuance in Op 10/1 combined with stunning technique it's hard to go past Anievas.
I don't know a better modern reading of the Mazurkas...
I'm into those Mazurkas big time.
Speaking of Katsaris, there is this video of him playing the 3d sonata.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYUaHm1fak
it's not just that the interpretation strikes me as overly fussy, I don't get the video either, with CK making faces at the camera and casting glances towards the audience, and weird camera pans. It's almost as if this is some kind of vanity video, with the audience pasted in, later.
Ditto, completely agree. A friend of mine a while ago suggested I see this "fantastic pianist". After viewing the above, I was definitely turned off. I searched out the Lipatti recording just to clean out my ears.
ZB
Speaking of Katsaris, there is this video of him playing the 3d sonata.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYUaHm1fak
it's not just that the interpretation strikes me as overly fussy, I don't get the video either, with CK making faces at the camera and casting glances towards the audience, and weird camera pans. It's almost as if this is some kind of vanity video, with the audience pasted in, later.
I agree. Side by side, it's no contest. Gavrilov sounds big, bold and confident. And more musical than Pollini. He makes this prelude sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude.
I just listened to him for the second time and I can't say I like it. It's weird because I love his Rachmaninoff preludes, so I assumed that I'd love his Chopin.
I've always found Katsaris a very interesting and unique pianist. I have a Sony disc of him playing the Op. 28 Preludes that's out of this world - a must have as far as I'm concerned.
now I've never heard his Rachmaninov - can you upload samples of Op 23/5 and op 32/10 for me so I can listen? After Richter it's very hard to listen to someone else play Rachmaninov.
I've always found Katsaris a very interesting and unique pianist. I have a Sony disc of him playing the Op. 28 Preludes that's out of this world - a must have as far as I'm concerned.
If this is not a parody I don't get it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYY47zdi8So&feature=related
He is an odd, quirky guy. I don't see how that excludes him being a talented pianist.
I agree. Side by side, it's no contest. Gavrilov sounds big, bold and confident. And more musical than Pollini. He makes this prelude sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude.
That's a bit confusing. Do you think Gavrilov or Pollini "makes it sound like a Rachmaninoff prelude"?
To me, I'd rather not have a pianist make a Chopin prelude come out like a Rachmaninoff prelude. I want to hear Chopin. If I wanted to hear a Rachmaninoff prelude, I'd put on Rachmaninoff preludes. And vice versa, of course. (To make it clear, I'm not being negative about R., only being negative about playing music by other composers as if it was music by R.)
If this is not a parody I don't get it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYY47zdi8So&feature=related
Perhaps if I just heard the audio it would be different.
Cocktail Chopin
for starters:
Arrau - live in Prague 1960
Bolet - Carnegie Hall recital
Fiorentino
I would add Anda and Cherkassky (live in Salzburg).
I've seen an Anda on DG. Is that the one you mean?
I suspect it is. Mine is in the Brilliant box. According to the credits it was recorded in 1959 in the Jesus Kirche in Berlin.
It is a studio recording and it doesn't have the high drama of a sink-or-swim live performance (neither does the Moiseiwitch), but I like it a lot.
handles the slower preludes with great depth and poetry AND brings great fire and intensity to the faster preludes?
Indeed, the Anda is not what you're looking for at this moment. I think that's Arrau, except that you already have that one, and it doesn't click with you?
(See I can write like a woman talks?)
Speaking of Katsaris, there is this video of him playing the 3d sonata.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYUaHm1fak
it's not just that the interpretation strikes me as overly fussy, I don't get the video either, with CK making faces at the camera and casting glances towards the audience, and weird camera pans. It's almost as if this is some kind of vanity video, with the audience pasted in, later.
So that's my 10 cents worth and thanks for the interesting thread material George.
George, you should have had brackets and made it a March Madness play-off.
I don't have most of the versions you list--just four (Rubinstein, Pollini, Argerich, and Arrau (studio). But I do have one you don't mention, the relatively recent one by Blechacz. Is he one you've simply not heard, or one you've listened to and found wanting?
And thanks very much for your post, Holden.
I have no idea why, but the live Bolet and live Arrau never completely clicked for me. I enjoy them both, but I don't consider them a top choice. I can't say exactly why, only that the performances just don't "speak" to me as a number of others do.
I agree with your point that these works are part of a whole and should be played that way (though Richter would perhaps argue the contrary) but it was impractical for me to compare 27 sets of preludes in this manner. My plan is to listen to the 6 top choices as a set over the next few weeks and see how they come across that way. At any rate, I like a slow 2nd prelude and a big, epic final prelude. These two preferences eliminate a lot of performances right off the bat, though I try my best to be open minded.
...and that's the thing about the Chopin Preludes. They are an enigma in themselves because Chopin never stated why he wrote them. it's interesting that numbers 4 and 6 were played at his funeral.
Why where they composed? Was there meant to be a fugue with each one like Bach's WTC? Is this why you get so many widely varying yet acceptable performances of this work. It is one of my favourite all time compositions
I just haven't heard it yet. I think I assumed that he plays in that modern style that I am not fond of. Am I wrong?
2. Moravec (Supraphon)- I had previously thought the much rarer, OOP VAI preludes were better than these, but after comparing them side by side, these are the clear winner. The piano tone is clearer and the playing is alternately more beautiful and more exciting.
Mmmm--not quite sure what you mean by modern.
It's too late tonight, but guess what I'll be listening to tomorrow after I come home from work?
Right on!
Moravec = Chopin heaven.
I think it's the exoticism of his playing that enthralls. Rich and colorful with a daring that illuminates each bar.
More like Pollini, less like Arrau.
I am in the process of downloading that Blechacz and plan to listen to it this weekend. 8)
Only his Ballades have disappointed me. I have tried a few times, but can't seem to follow him. :-\
How interesting. I think I'll give his Ballads a spin again soon and see how they measure up.
Who do you like in the Ballads, btw?
George, you should have had brackets and made it a March Madness play-off.
I don't have most of the versions you list--just four (Rubinstein, Pollini, Argerich, and Arrau (studio). But I do have one you don't mention, the relatively recent one by Blechacz. Is he one you've simply not heard, or one you've listened to and found wanting?
Some recitals over at Symphonyshare from Nantes 2010. Not pianists I'm familiar with, but have seen praise for them both over at RMCR -
Anne Queffélec
Also, which are your favorite performances of these two works?
Rubinstein's first set and the few Sokolov performances of individual Nocturnes I have listened to. If only Zimerman or Sokolov were to record a set..
I LOVE Zimerman's Concerti with the Polish Orchestra. Best I have heard of these two works.
Zimerman's Ballades on DVD are also great (not the same recording as the CD, although I think it was recorded the same year); I also love many of his early Chopin recordings
I have always loved the post. c# minor Nocturne by Chopin. I discovered tonight that I have 11 recordings of it - Arrau, Ashkenazy, Vasary, Wasowski, Ciccolini, Tipo, Pires, Simon, Freire, Boegner and Ricardo Castro.
I compared them and found Wasowski to be my favorite. His has the slowest tempo of all the versions I compared and this helps to create a dark, mysterious mood that works well with this work. Arrau was a close second, with a gorgeous tone and great sound. I also enjoyed Abbey Simon and Ricardo Castro's reading of this work.
I enjoy her Satie, so I should check that recital out, Thanks!
Just came by this one:
(http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1361957-1226018903.jpeg)
Deluxe Philips boxed set, 13 CDs issued in 1992. Treasure or Turkey?
There's also this set, only available on German Eloquence, if I'm not mistaken.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EjHljBwGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I thought Eloquence was issued as an Australian label. No?
Chopin BalladesInteresting.
I have been working on a survey of pianists who have recorded all four of Chopin’s lovely Ballades . . .
Interesting.
You listened to some I haven't heard.
And I’m curious about what put you off Moiseiwitsch and Richter.
And I hope you used Cortot 1933 .
I didn't. Just the Naxos (1929.) Why?
You need to be a bit neurotic, a bit mad, to play this music, I think. I'm not sure that Tipo was mad enough.
I don't get the connection. If you were talking about Scriabin or Schumann, I'd be inclined to agree, but mad to play Chopin? Can you explain this?
Yes I can have a go.
In Chopin things are sometimes not quite clear emotionally. Positive feelings don't last long or are tinged with darkness
If you don't feel this you get the sort of playing that Rubinstein often comes up with. Architecturally strong, lyrical, entertaining, in your face, straightforward. But not so much psychhological depth. Or better, ambiguity.
If you do feel it you get Cortot. All those wierd little bass rumbles and funny little glissandi Cortot makes you hear, like stabs of anxiety.
Sometimes Richter too -- in that Praga 3rd Ballade, for example.
The clearest example of the general point I want to make is in the nocturnes. If you have them, listen to Rubinstein and Cortot side by side in the nocturne Op 55/1 or 27/1
It’s a question of little details. I prefer Cortot's later one because of little things, like some amazing little trills leading up to the coda of the second ballade. But the 1929 one is fine -- just not as good IMO.
You need to be a bit neurotic, a bit mad, to play this music, I think.
Does this mean that you are a big fan of Horowitz's Chopin?
Listening to the Waltzes by Nikita Magaloff. Not the deepest music that Chopin wrote, but much refinement and melodic invention. Magaloff makes the music sound wonderful, and Philips gives him excellent sound.
I recently purchased that one but haven't given it a good listen yet. Glad you like it.
I see. I didn't know they were in current release. I came upon the old Philips complete edition that was released years ago (mid 90's). This is not the sort of music that changes your life, but I think you won't be disappointed.
Released on Connoisseur Society LP in 1974. Never on CD. Does anyone know if LP rips could be found?
Really enjoying Garrick Ohlsson in the Opus 28 Préludes, e tutti i Mazurkas.
Can you type out the specifics? I am at work and can't access youtube.
Chopin The Four Scherzi - Antonio Barbosa - 1974 Connoisseur Society CSQ 2071
Shall I assume that you've checked Demonoid and the public torrents already?
I'm not a member at Demonoid, few google searches I tried came up with nothing.
Chopin The Four Scherzi - Antonio Barbosa - 1974 Connoisseur Society CSQ 2071
Really enjoying Garrick Ohlsson in the Opus 28 Préludes, e tutti i Mazurkas.
The funny thing is I dug out the Ohlsson Mazurkae recently, too, the Arabesque cds. Previously I thought Ohlssohn was a bitten too wooden, rigid, for this music, but this time around there were a few I rather enjoyed. Virtually no one is persuasive in every single Mazurka.
Really enjoying Garrick Ohlsson in the Opus 28 Préludes, e tutti i Mazurkas.
Ptui, mistake. Meant the Etudes . . . I don't have Ohlsson in the Préludes, Don.
EDIT: Who comes closest to being persuasive in every mazurka? They may yet become my favorite genre of Chopin works.
Ptui, mistake. Meant the Etudes . . . I don't have Ohlsson in the Préludes, Don.
EDIT: Who comes closest to being persuasive in every mazurka? They may yet become my favorite genre of Chopin works.
Drasko, would you recommend that set over the later, stereo remakes? I only ask because I already own the stereo set and just have not listened to it yet.
I was listening to those Ohlsson Etudes last night, too! Loved the lighter touch he had in so many of them - they weren't heavy-handed exercises; there was poetry to be heard. Jolly good stuff. :)
I really like Luisadas set on DG. Wasowski and the second Rubinstein are great too. Unfortunately, all three sets are hard to find.
George, did Luisada record all Mazurkas? The Luisada set - or part of it - is available as mp3s in the DG webshop:
http://www2.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/result?sort=newest_rec&PRODUCT_NR=4630542&SearchString=&SEARCH_OPTIONS=&javascript=1&IN_XXSERIES=&IN_XXPQ=&per_page=50&COMP_ID=&ALBUM_TYPE=&IN_SERIES=&ART_ID=LUIJE&IN_XXAWARDS=&start=0&MOZART_22=0&GENRE=&presentation=list&ADD_DECCA=0
Well, I am starting to feel smug about picking up the Ohlsson Chopin cycle during the wild sale at the french web site. :D I have to find time to listen to it, though.
Well, I am starting to feel smug about picking up the Ohlsson Chopin cycle during the wild sale at the french web site. :D I have to find time to listen to it, though.
Drasko, would you recommend that set over the later, stereo remakes? I only ask because I already own the stereo set and just have not listened to it yet.
Did he rerecord the whole output of Chopin for that set? I know he already had recorded a lot for EMI then for Arabesque.
The recordings in the Hyperion set are from Arabesque.
Released on Connoisseur Society LP in 1974. Never on CD. Does anyone know if LP rips could be found?
If you ever track these down, please let me know? Those are GREAT performances. :o
PRELUDES- I guess Argerich ( I believe i would like them, though haven't heard them),
2nd- Pogorelich, RachmaninovAgreed about Rachmaninov for the second. I would add Michelangeli.
3rd- Lipatti, Janne Mertanen (Finnish pianist)
BALLADES1st Cortot
1st- Michelangeli
2nd- Pogorelich
3rd- Rachmaninov (kind of eccentric but ingenious)
4th- Rubinstein
SCHERZI- I guess Pollini of all of them but individual;1st -- Sofronitsky
2nd- Michelangeli
4th- Horowitz
POLONAISES- Rubinstein of them all (the ones with opus number), individual;I have mixed feelings about the 1968 Op 44 -- it is a bit brash!
op.44- Pogorelich, Horowitz
BARCAROLLE- Cortot, Rubinstein, PolliniMoiseiewitsch 1939. Richter live from Sazburg. Sofroniotsky (1949)
MAZURKAS- Rubinstein of them all, the 30s (definately that one!)Maybe the 30s one -- it is one of my favourites. Michelangeli and Richter and (some) Moravec for me too.
WALTZES- Lipatti
NOCTURNES- Rubinstein of them all, individual
e-minor from late 1820s- Horowitz
BERCEUSE- Cortot, RubinsteinSolomon, Hofmann
ETUDES
opp.10&25 definately Cortot; a classic
the set of three- Rubinstein
PRELUDES- I guess Argerich ( I believe i would like them, though haven't heard them), Cortot, of the individual;I like 1955 live Cortot. And Sofronitsky 1949 is sombre and tragic.
g-minor, Bflat major,d-minor- Pogorelich (like them very much)
Are Moravec's Chopin Nocturnes so superior that literally all the people on Amazon (40 pax) put 5 stars on the Amazon site? How does Arrau & Rubinstein fare vis-a-vis Moravec please? Thanks.
For me, Arrau wins out against both. I find him more expressive, not to mention better recorded.
George - well, I'm not sure, Moarvec was culled to my favorite version of these works - I picked up the Earl Wild recordings and enjoyed - BTW, I've you hard his interpretations?
I guess that my 'bottom line' is that Moravec is pretty damn good - for us 'mortals' not into the most finite differences, would not Moravec please in these performances for much of us? Just a thought - you don't need the perfect interpretation (if possible), but one of the tops will likely satisfy most of us, I would suspect - Dave :)
Are Moravec's Chopin Nocturnes so superior that literally all the people on Amazon (40 pax) put 5 stars on the Amazon site? How does Arrau & Rubinstein fare vis-a-vis Moravec please? Thanks.
Well, I have heard only that B-flat prelude (the only slow one) and yeahm I did like it :) Though he's sound is little "straight forward" & kind of narrow...but everything else- the phrasing, the tempo- I like. It is from LP I once heard containing the 2nd Ballade, the E flat Nocturne (op.55) these few preludes and something else that I forgot. great recording. And he's 2nd sonata is in my opinnion the ideal performance; the SCENT OF DEATH
Do you even like Progorelich in the slow preludes?
For me, Arrau wins out against both. I find him more expressive, not to mention better recorded.
Arrau was more than just a pianist. He was an exceptional musician so I can understand why people really like his nocturne interpretations. I have his Liszt TE's and for many they don't have the bravura approach that we expect of this fine set of Etudes. The likes of Gekic, Cziffra and Ovchinikov have produced outstanding recordings of this ouevre with all the flash and crash required. But when I listen to Arrau's 'Harmonies du Soir' I know that he plumbed the musical depths that little bit further than any of them. Maybe this is what others hear in his Chopin Nocturne set.
So, to conclude, in the Preludes you like Argerich, whoxe recording you haven't heard, and Pogorelich, of whom you have heard only some excerpts, and Cortot - but not all of them.(Thank's for your sympathetic comments.......)
Why don't you try to get hold of some really good recordings and listen to Op 28 in its entirety? You could even start with Argerich (whom I don't like), or Cortot (who's great), or Arrau.
There's a 6-cd set from EMI of Chopin's piano works (performers like Ohlssohn, Gavrilov, Arrau etc) that's going pretty cheap. Is it worth getting? I know little of Chopin's output and am trying to remedy that situation. Thanks in advance.
There's a 6-cd set from EMI of Chopin's piano works (performers like Ohlssohn, Gavrilov, Arrau etc) that's going pretty cheap. Is it worth getting? I know little of Chopin's output and am trying to remedy that situation. Thanks in advance.
There's a 6-cd set from EMI of Chopin's piano works (performers like Ohlssohn, Gavrilov, Arrau etc) that's going pretty cheap. Is it worth getting? I know little of Chopin's output and am trying to remedy that situation. Thanks in advance.
There's a 6-cd set from EMI of Chopin's piano works (performers like Ohlssohn, Gavrilov, Arrau etc) that's going pretty cheap. Is it worth getting? I know little of Chopin's output and am trying to remedy that situation. Thanks in advance.
POLONAISE-FANTAISIE- don't know a completely satisfactory one: (
Anyone heard this?
http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Frédéric-François/dp/B002XDFOHG
Yes, I didn't much like it.
Prompted by your remark I listened to a few today. Richter (“Authorised”) and Rubinstein (50s mono) were both pretty good.. But the performance I enjoyed the most was from Alexis Weissenberg (EMI)
This piece is full of contrasts – there are melting soft passages and more rhythmically incisive bits. I thought that sometimes Weissenberg played with the most touching humanity and with beautiful colours. And at other times he was harder toned, more monochromatic. Despite this variety, he bites the whole piece off at once. It’s a unified, integrated performance
And he moves the music forward really well – it never flounders.
Anyway, FWIW I like AW in this. More than Richter and Rubinstein this time round.
POLONAISE-FANTAISIE- don't know a completely satisfactory one: (
I have to check that Weissenberg. Well, it is an complicated and elusive work. I love Rubinstein but sometimes he's little "sloppy" intrepetationally. I only have this feeling (funny) with works that I myself study (actually that's not so funny- i mean it's quite natural). Like the Barcarolle for instance; I feel that sometimes Cortot just "hits" it, he had a profound understanding of that work ( but the sound quality - an inferior recording thechnique or something- isn't so good so the listening experience just suffer's from that a little).
I had completely forgotten that Cortot had recorded it.No problem :) I listened the Richter POLONAISE- FANTAISIE on YouTube and few other; Neuhaus, Roberto Poli and Cortot, couldn't find the Weissenberg... I liked the Richter less, Cortot and Neuhaus most. Both had some very good passges but still fell short in some respects ::) Here few point's in regards on intrepetation;
Thanks for reminding me about it.
Advice & comments! Reading the current issue of Fanfare (May-June 2010) and the recording below was of great interest:
Chopin - Ballades et al w/ Nelson Goerner on a period piano (Pleyel instrument built in Paris in 1848) - recorded on the Polish Fryderyk Chopin Institute label (apparently being devoted to recording all of his works) - I've not heard of this pianist nor the label - any comments, recommendations, etc? Thanks all - :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31mirAfPnrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Put the quoted post below in another Chopin thread which apparently does not get much action, so repeated here for comments - thanks:
You can listen online to every single track in full from all of their discs at Fryderyk Chopin Institute website, so you can decide for yourself whether you like it or not. Here is Goerner's Ballades (click on title of track, in red on right side of screen):
http://en.chopin.nifc.pl/institute/publications/musics/id/303
You can listen online to every single track in full from all of their discs at Fryderyk Chopin Institute website, so you can decide for yourself whether you like it or not. Here is Goerner's Ballades (click on title of track, in red on right side of screen):
http://en.chopin.nifc.pl/institute/publications/musics/id/303
I would like to check out this disc:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8505/chopinr.jpg)
About this release:
- In celebration of the Chopin-year 2010
- The young Chopin, a child prodigy if ever there was one, soon found his surroundings in his native Warsaw too narrow, and visited the cultural capital Vienna during the years 1829-1831. Here he met the local piano manufacturer Conrad Graf and was seduced by his instruments, with their light action and delicate, pliant sound. His triumphal concerts in Vienna were played on Graf's pianos, and the young Fryderick was presented one as a gift by Graf himself.
- This disc presents works of Chopin written in his Vienna period, and here they are played on exactly such an instrument, as is still preserved in the Italian Palazzo Contucci in Montepulciano.
- The extensive booklet supplies historical background, pictures, illustrations and photos.
- Costantino already recorded extensively for Brilliant Classics: the complete keyboard music of Clementi, highly praised by international critics.
Tracklisting
1. Polonaise in A Flat Major (dedicated to Zywny) (1821) 04:07
2. Rondò in C minor, Op. 1 (1825) 09:15
3. Mazurka in G major (1825-26) 01:05
4. Mazurka in B Flat Major, (1825-26) 01:33
5. Polonaise in B Flat Minor (1826) 06:19
6. Rondò à la Mazur in F major, Op. 5 (1826) 10:31
7. Polonaise in D Minor, Op. 71 (1827-29) 06:28
8. Polonaise in F Minor, Op. 71 (1827-29) 10:09
9. Polonaise in B Flat Major, Op. 71 (1827-29) 07:03
10. Polonaise in G Flat Major (1829) 08:19
11. Variations in A major “Souvenir de Paganini” (1829) 03:52
12. “Casta Diva” from V. Bellini's “Norma” (transcription for P. Viardot) 03:04
I would like to check out this disc:
I would like to check out this disc:Now THAT'S an interesting disc!!! (never heard the casta diva transcription- only that he made one).
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8505/chopinr.jpg)
About this release:
- In celebration of the Chopin-year 2010
- The young Chopin, a child prodigy if ever there was one, soon found his surroundings in his native Warsaw too narrow, and visited the cultural capital Vienna during the years 1829-1831. Here he met the local piano manufacturer Conrad Graf and was seduced by his instruments, with their light action and delicate, pliant sound. His triumphal concerts in Vienna were played on Graf's pianos, and the young Fryderick was presented one as a gift by Graf himself.
- This disc presents works of Chopin written in his Vienna period, and here they are played on exactly such an instrument, as is still preserved in the Italian Palazzo Contucci in Montepulciano.
- The extensive booklet supplies historical background, pictures, illustrations and photos.
- Costantino Mastroprimiano already recorded extensively for Brilliant Classics: the complete keyboard music of Clementi, highly praised by international critics.
Tracklisting:
1. Polonaise in A Flat Major (dedicated to Zywny) (1821) 04:07
2. Rondò in C minor, Op. 1 (1825) 09:15
3. Mazurka in G major (1825-26) 01:05
4. Mazurka in B Flat Major, (1825-26) 01:33
5. Polonaise in B Flat Minor (1826) 06:19
6. Rondò à la Mazur in F major, Op. 5 (1826) 10:31
7. Polonaise in D Minor, Op. 71 (1827-29) 06:28
8. Polonaise in F Minor, Op. 71 (1827-29) 10:09
9. Polonaise in B Flat Major, Op. 71 (1827-29) 07:03
10. Polonaise in G Flat Major (1829) 08:19
11. Variations in A major “Souvenir de Paganini” (1829) 03:52
12. “Casta Diva” from V. Bellini's “Norma” (transcription for P. Viardot) 03:04
You can listen online to every single track in full from all of their discs at Fryderyk Chopin Institute website, so you can decide for yourself whether you like it or not. Here is Goerner's Ballades (click on title of track, in red on right side of screen):
http://en.chopin.nifc.pl/institute/publications/musics/id/303
I can't recommend this recording too enthusiastically.
It comes from a period when Sofronitsky's Chopin style was rather austere. But the drama of the music making is unbelievable.
The mazurka set seems to me to be a real summit of Chopin playing. Same for the Waltzes.
Sound quality is excellent by anyones's standards.
Mandryka, can you give details please? Which label?
Sorry (I made the post early in the morning.)
It's on Classound -- here
Sorry (I made the post early in the morning.)
It's on Classound -- here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOFRONITSKY-Chopin-Polon-Waltzes-Mazurkas-CD-RUS-NEW-/350360652997?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Music_CDs&hash=item51931f4cc5
I can't recommend this recording too enthusiastically.Being a long time fan of Sofronitsky and collecting most of his recordings, I still remember how difficult it was to get them outside Russia. Nowadays, Sofronitsky is widely regarded as one of the major piano interpreters of the last century and we are fortunate to have many of his recordings more easily available. But with the profusion of editions and deficient information on the recording sources it is also more challenging to avoid overlaps.
It comes from a period when Sofronitsky's Chopin style was rather austere. But the drama of the music making is unbelievable.
The mazurka set seems to me to be a real summit of Chopin playing. Same for the Waltzes.
Sound quality is excellent by anyones's standards.
Where did you get the idea that it's from 1961? (Did I say that somewhere?!) I think it is from 1960.
I investigated a bit before I bought the CD and as far as I can see the Mazurkas and Waltzes are no where else. The Barcarole may well be.
The booklet which comes with the CD isn't helpful to me as it's in Russian.
The possibility of a different source for the Classound Mazurkas is referred in the "Mazurka project" site. http://mazurka.org.uk/info/discography/ (http://mazurka.org.uk/info/discography/). But the 1961 date must be wrong !
I didn’t had the time to do a comparative track by track audition but the Classound programme, particularly with the same Mazurkas selection, is most probably from the January-February 1960 studio recordings. Assuming the 1960 source all this pieces were already included in other Sofronitsky editions, particularly in the Philips GPOC (in the GPOC the Chopin disc has exactly the same programme as the Classound). Most of the pieces from the 1960 sessions were also already included in the Denon (83673-4) and the Arlecchino (ARL41) series.
(http://cdn.tower.jp/zz/m/0289/028945697024.jpg)
What do you think of the Barcarolle on Classound? Do you prefer it to the 1949 live Barcarolle?
In my view, the studio 1960 has much better sound and is a more polished reading, with magnificent phrasing, colors and many wonderful details. But in the 1949 recital the sheer drive is astonishing - don't mind the sound, forget the notes and just let you be carried in an almost hallucinatory dream.
Do you know Moiseiwitsch’s 1939 Barcarolle? If not, do try it. It’s very good. Rather better than his well known 41 one.
http://www.mediafire.com/?3wghznzdmk0
Do you know Moiseiwitsch’s 1939 Barcarolle? If not, do try it. It’s very good. Rather better than his well known 41 one.The Naxos "Moiseiwitsch edition" - vol 13 - includes the 1939 and 1941 Barcarolle. And I think I may understand your preference. For me the 1939 is much more intimate, more poised, with exquisite details of the phrasing and colors. Benno gives the Barcarolle an extraordinary "inner" tension, without the more usual "outer" effects on volume or dynamics. And apart from the studio 1939 and 1941, there is also a very good (studio 1958 ?) GPOC Barcarolle.
... there is also a very good (studio 1958 ?) GPOC Barcarolle.
19th February 1956. Moiseiwitsch GPOC volume is messy with dates.
Sorry (I made the post early in the morning.)
It's on Classound -- here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOFRONITSKY-Chopin-Polon-Waltzes-Mazurkas-CD-RUS-NEW-/350360652997?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Music_CDs&hash=item51931f4cc5
Thanks very much for this recommendation. My copy arrived yesterday and I am enjoying it! :)
I'm pleased because I know that you haven't enjoyed VVS so much before.
I suspect that the Brilliant box, Scriabin apart, doesn't show him at his best.
If you find yourself getting interested in him, try his Symphonic Etudes.
I haven't got the set, but I know three people, all quite sophisticated listeners, who say"I have the Brilliant VVS set and I don't like VVS".
I also saw that my favourite recordings -- the Symphonic Etudes, Schubert Impromptus, Beethoven 111 and Pastoral, 1949 Chopin Op 28, 1951 Schumann Op 17, Beethoven Op 57 from 1952 . . . aren't included.
The late mazurkas in the set -- are they the ones from 1949? If so, I think he surpassed himself in the studio recordings of Chopin mazurkas on Russian Piano School, and the ones on the Classound recording we have been discussing.
The op. 28, however, included in the brilliant set and dated 1951 is the same as in the vista vera release, dated 1949, and the Classound release (001-024, MVT032) with the yellow and gray cover. I only have the Denon Scriabin, unfortunately, so I cannot compare its Chopin "legendary" '49 Preludes with the others (must order it from Japan soon). I would guess the '49 Denon Chopin Preludes is the same also, and someone got the date wrong.
In any case, I think the Brilliant set is fairly representative, although not the be-all and end-all. Still, probably best to get the individual Denon Scriabin and Chopin Releases and the classound Schumann.
Looking at my Sofronitsky’s recordings of the Chopin Preludes, the live set (Op.28 Preludes No. 1-24) from the 21 Nov 1949 Chopin recital (Great Hall of The Moscow Conservatory – on Chopin’s death centenary) is more easy to date.
There are other recordings of the Op.28 Preludes but these are much more difficult to confirm and date precisely:
- No. 1-23 - studio 1950 / 1953 (?) - Arlecchino (ARL95)
- No.2 & No13 – 1946 (?); No.1 – 1950 (?); No.12- 1951 (?) - Denon (83672)
On comparative timings and listening the Brilliant “edition” , Vista Vera (00118), Denon (83968) and Classound (032) they all included the same live 1949 set. If sound is an issue I would prefer the Denon and would reject the Classound (for me the sound is too filtered and compacted).
I also relistened my Arlecchino CD and the sound is quite good, suggesting it could indeed be a studio recording. The timings for each prelude are different from the 1949 set and comparing the C minor prelude on all my “editions” the Arlecchino and the “alternative” Denon 1946(?) are indeed different from the 1949. Contrary to what we may expect the Arlecchino (studio?) is quite interesting and probably with a more free rubato compared to the live 1949.
Cross-posting: I will always, always associate the nocturne in C sharp minor (my favorite of all the nocturnes) with Wladyslaw Szpilman, aka "The Pianist"; it was the work which quite literally saved his life in the Warsaw Ghetto when he played it to a German officer who had discovered his hiding place.
Anybody know these two women and their Chopin?
First Jeanne-Marie Darre and her set of preludes. I have seen it highly praised somewhere (by quite reliable Amazon reviewer Hiram Gomez Pardo).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21T7KXQ9ZJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Anybody know these two women and their Chopin?
First Jeanne-Marie Darre and her set of preludes. I have seen it highly praised somewhere (by quite reliable Amazon reviewer Hiram Gomez Pardo).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21T7KXQ9ZJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I had picked this one up, but hadn't heard it yet. So I popped it in and will report back.
Looking forward to hear your comments, George! And thank you for the feeback, Bulldog.
I agree with Bulldog. Not one of the best preludes, but one of the better ones. Worth the $3.99 that mine cost me.
Thanks!
For the Preludes, I'd say get the Sokolov, download the Fiorentino (google is your friend) check out Barto and of course grab one of the earlier Cortot's, the 1926 or the 1933.
In fact, since I had a binge of listening to Op 28s earlier this year, I've come to appreciate Gilels’s preludes considerably more than Sokolov’s or even Fiorentino’s
I’m enjoying Gilels in Chopin a lot right now. most of all in the 3rd sonata. All the recordings I have heard of this music from him are excellent. Maybe the one I enjoy the most is from a 1977 recital, at the Moscow Conservatoire.
And then there are the Op 28 Preludes. Fiorentino’s. recording is astounding in some of the preludes (I’m still astonished by how he takes Op 28/2 for example.) But Gilels is, for me, more satisfying I think. The reasons: the unforced naturelness of the music making, the intensity of the concentration, the seriousness, the authentic candour of the expression, the huge glowing sonority.
Sokolov is not for me.
What is wrong with Sokolov?
Still waiting impatiently for Marston's Chopin release too. :-[
Chopin Ballades 1 & 2. Masterful interpretations by Gavrilov, in warm, pearly sound (unlike the fuzzy sonics given poor Pollini on the same label).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JDvkpzsIL.jpg)
I wonder how those compare to the ones he did for EMI? (hint, hint) :)
I figured I'd answer you here George since the mods might move our discussion anyway. :)
This DG recording comes later in Gavrilov's career but I couldn't say how it compares to his earlier EMI Ballades disc since I haven't heard it.
Although I DO have Gavrilov's EMI disc of the Etudes and based on that I figured I'd pull the trigger on this DG disc, seeing as he has the requisite poetry I admire in the Etudes, though not forgetting the necessary fire and angularity that catapults Chopin into the visionary and out of the salon.
The Ballades however are of a completely different temperament than the Etudes and I wondered if Gavrilov would adjust to meet the music's requirements, but as it stands, he does. Admirably.
The poetry just oozes off the page in his renditions but not of the sappy, sentimental kind. It's a poetry drawn straight from the inner fantasy that Chopin concocts so meticulously in his music and practically demands be entered into and navigated to the fullest else the music suffers.
Gavrilov jumps right in and makes the most of what he encounters and I had a MOST enjoyable time listening to these renditions.
Sadly this disc is long OOP (probably only IN print for a mere five seconds) but to my ears fully deserves NEVER to have been allowed to go out of print at all.
First of all, as I mentioned, the sonics on this disc deserve the highest acclaim, being rich, pearly, and warm. Sadly, as I compared this disc to the Pollini disc of Ballades I nearly fainted as a disc recorded seven years later than the Gavrilov suffered from scratchy, fuzzy sonics and did zero justice to what sounds to me like committed performances by Pollini.
But as Gavrilov's playing is of the visionary kind AND has committed sonics I see no reason whatsoever to bury this disc in DG's OOP vault. Criminal.
This DG recording comes later in Gavrilov's career but I couldn't say how it compares to his earlier EMI Ballades disc since I haven't heard it.
The EMI has the exact same program. Maybe they are the same recordings? Mine was from 1985 and is marked DDD.
Here's the timings on my EMI CD -
Piano Sonata
6:45
6:19
8:43
1:05
Ballades
8:47
7:08
6:52
10:16
Nope, the DG timings are different enough to suggest that they are different.
Sonata
6:57
6:32
9:13
1:08
Ballades
9:06
6:35
7:08
10:36
http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/single?PRODUCT_NR=4356222
They're different but why Gavrilov would re-record the exact same works separated by only six years is a mystery to me.
(http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/blogs/playlist/money%20large.jpg?1239964072)
Thanks. Bought! 8) (amazon marketplace is a good thing ::))
Hope it works out for you...I'll report back once I have the CD..
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uEhlimfKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Just listened to the Ballades from this set. His technique is impressive and he plays with a fair amount of poetry. This is solid Chopin playing, characterized by a minimum of rubato and wide dynamic range. The climaxes are big and bold, with plenty of fireworks, though not over the top. The EMI sound is very good for its age, producing a full piano sound.
OOP?
Archival recording of the recital of Raul Koczalski which took place on February 21, 1948 in the Pompeian Room of the Belvedere on the occasion of the 138th anniversary of Fryderyk Chopin's birthday.
Raul Koczalski was the student of Chopin's pupil Karol Mikuli. He devoted his entire artistic life to Fryderyk Chopin and considered himself an heir to the Chopin tradition, handed down to him by Mikuli. He left many recordings of Chopin, Bach, Mozart, Liszt, Paderewski, Schumann and his own.
The recordings are unique due to sound of "Chopin" Pleyel piano from 1847.
New release from Chopin Institute looks interesting
Clips can be auditioned at jpc. It seems there is announcement for each piece, which sounds annoying, but the opening of op.7/1 mazurka (track 3) is really nice.
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Frederic-Chopin-Klavierwerke/hnum/3479408
I like Koczalski as well, at least judging by the Chopin disc on Pearl which is the only thing I have. Polish label Selene released seven or eight volumes devoted to Kozcalski, though only three are in print according to their website. Tony had bunch of them, I never heard any.
http://selenemusic.com/eng/?id=cd&go=lista&kat=1
actually one of those three volumes supposedly in print has the same recital as the Chopin Institute disc.
http://selenemusic.com/eng/?id=cd&go=pokaz&ad=21
And I think you can listen to those Chopin Institute recordings on their website.
Cortot deeper, whatever that means (Very well transferred on APR by the way.) So much is no surprise.
But the pianist who made me go slightly damp eyed was Elissio Wirssaladze in Op 69/1. And that is a surprise for me, because I had always slightly sidelined her Chopin, But I was wrong to do that I think, certainly judging by this little waltz. Michelangeli had that quality too. ABM is achingly beautiful if ever so slightly sentimental. But what he lacked, and what Wirssaldaze had, was spontaneity.
Cortot on APR? Tell me more. Oh - those late recordings?
Mandryka, on which CD does she play this Waltz?
Mandryka, on which CD does she play this Waltz?
Thanks! Have you heard the whole CD? If so, do you like it?
You've got her complete Etudes?
You've got her complete Etudes?
Yes and I think that they are very well done. I'd forgotten about them, actually.
There are actually two recordings of the Etudes by her. A Melodyia version and a Live Classics version. I have the former, I like it, though the Etudes are not my favorite Chopin.
There are actually two recordings of the Etudes by her. A Melodyia version and a Live Classics version. I have the former, I like it, though the Etudes are not my favorite Chopin.
I'm at work so can't access the Etudes so I'm not sure which version I've got? I suspect it's the Live Classics.
Michelangeli plays the Mazurka Op 68/4 differently from most people, in that he includes a few bars which you don't often hear. The bit I mean is about 2 minutes into this extract (not the best performance -- for that you need to go to the Brown Aura box)Yeah, it's a nice passage---I think some may not even know of it becouse major edeitions like Henle Urtext and Paderewski omit it and follw an old reconstruction either by Julian Fontana or August Franchomme. But did you konow that Rubinstein did play it!
http://www.youtube.com/v/xbQ5ly-BPOU
Who else plays this extra bit -- which I think really enhances the music. I've checked Ciani, Fliere, Koroliov,
Barbosa, François, Wasowsky and Malcusynsky. The all leave it out. I wonder why more pianists don't play it?
By the way it turns out that the manuscript is problematic -- difficult to decipher.
Michelangeli plays the Mazurka Op 68/4 differently from most people, in that he includes a few bars which you don't often hear.
By the way it turns out that the manuscript is problematic -- difficult to decipher.
Yeah, it's a nice passage---I think some may not even know of it becouse major edeitions like Henle Urtext and Paderewski omit it and follw an old reconstruction either by Julian Fontana or August Franchomme. But did you konow that Rubinstein did play it!
-- maybe not as emotional as Michelangeli.
There's a phrase you don't read everyday. :D
Because people think of ABM as cold ?
I have recently been listening to one of the best new recordings of Chopin I have heard in years---41 Mazurkas by Jean-Marc Luisada on RCA. The Mazurkas are my favorite Chopin and the playing and recording on this two CD set is simply wonderful. Anyone else heard this yet?
I have recently been listening to one of the best new recordings of Chopin I have heard in years---41 Mazurkas by Jean-Marc Luisada on RCA. The Mazurkas are my favorite Chopin and the playing and recording on this two CD set is simply wonderful. Anyone else heard this yet?
Yeah, the Luisada set could be my favourite set of mazurkas. And these pices are close to being my favourite Chopin. Some of them even sound a bit Norwegian. :)
You like them more than the DG set?
I have Sofronitsky in 27/2, but not in 27/1.
What's the provenance of yours, if I may ask?
This one Herman:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frederic-Chopin-Preludes-Nocturnes-Sofronitsky/dp/B000RH86HK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1289666639&sr=8-2
Can you post the dates for those recordings, please?
1960 -- January or February. :-*
Listening to the playlist of Op 27/1s it became clear to me that Moravec's, Cortot's and Sofronitsky's (1960) recordings dwarfed all the others.
I wonder why Wasowski is not much well known. I also really like his Nocturnes and Mazurkas.
Indeed, Wasowski is great.
Yesterday I listened to Sofronitsky's Chopin Scherzo from that Russian Piano School set. My goodness!! I love the way he plays the dramatic parts intensely and the relaxed parts (often right alongside the intense parts) with great depth and beauty. I don't even like the Scherzos that much, but Sofronitsky has sure sold me on them.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lKoKyzWxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Picked this one up today for $6.99 in near mint condition. I almost didn't buy it, but judging from the price on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Mazurkas-Waltzes-Frederic/dp/B00004SRG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290973486&sr=8-1), I am sure glad I did. :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lKoKyzWxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Picked this one up today for $6.99 in near mint condition. I almost didn't buy it, but judging from the price on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Mazurkas-Waltzes-Frederic/dp/B00004SRG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290973486&sr=8-1), I am sure glad I did. :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lKoKyzWxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Picked this one up today for $6.99 in near mint condition. I almost didn't buy it, but judging from the price on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Mazurkas-Waltzes-Frederic/dp/B00004SRG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290973486&sr=8-1), I am sure glad I did. :)
This is IMO the greatest thing he ever did. Not Chopin -- Scriabin. But can't resist posting it here. The gentleness and humanity of it is awesome
http://www.youtube.com/v/KIv2KmBOeTQ
Interesting that he retains his popularity -- I'm a fan myself, even in Chopin. He's an extreme point of view though -- just like Moravec is an extreme.
Surely there are some conservatives and romantics here -- we can't have a Weissenberg love in. A fight would be more interesting.
This is IMO the greatest thing he ever did. Not Chopin -- Scriabin. But can't resist posting it here. The gentleness and humanity of it is awesome
Where does this one fall as far as performance is concerned?
(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/large/AEMI_370__41562__01152009120559-5698.jpg)
Even those who are critical of his later Chopin recordings (myself included) are fond of these recordings.
On the other hand, for sound and performance, this one is the absolute best that I have heard (you get both concertos, too):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YA0hh19%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZGJD3EKEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Even those who are critical of his later Chopin recordings (myself included) are fond of these recordings.
On the other hand, for sound and performance, this one is the absolute best that I have heard (you get both concertos, too):
Hey George - I've owned the much earlier Zimerman recordings of these works and really have enjoyed over the years; I was thinking of purchasing the 'newer' release but have not - have you heard both, and if so any thoughts? Thanks - Dave :)
I have not heard both, I bought the later one and love it so much that I have no desire to get any more recordings of these works. That's how much I love it. :)
Well, I guess my feeling w/ that earlier recording which I've had for many years - the only 'new' addition of these works after reading some superlative reviews to my collection is the one below; so, I'll probably just stay happy w/ those - :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qPhqn7T4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
... but you don't have an interpretation on period instruments, dear Dave. Too bad! :P ;D
(http://rsindex.pictures-hosting.com/2009-12-03/000fa8d2_medium.jpeg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b0I6xoMbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Well, I was waiting for a good price on the 21-CD box (above, right) - assume that it includes those PI concertos? Currently at $82 on the Amazon MP - should I 'pull the trigger' or wait a little longer? Dave ;D
I am thinking tax refund fun, Dave....but there is my birthday in March. ;D
(http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/3b8e48f5a9e2d4ee460813c8c57d23ed/2423131.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZVgRNtKrL._SS300_.jpg)I'm seriously thinking of these. You may talk me over :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZHR8fL7RL._SS300_.jpg)
8)
for sound and performance, this one is the absolute best that I have heard (you get both concertos, too):IMO these performance- no matter how polished- are seriously flawed as far as intrepetation is concerned.
Hey George - I've owned the much earlier Zimerman recordings of these works and really have enjoyed over the years; I was thinking of purchasing the 'newer' release but have not - have you heard both, and if so any thoughts? Thanks - Dave :)
Dave, in his early days Zimerman actually recorded the 1st concerto twice: once with Giulini and once with Kondrashin. Anyway, I can hardly think of two recordings made by one pianist which would differ from one another more than Zimerman's "early" and "more recent" Chopin PCs. ................................
Hi Maciek - thanks for the excellent comments in your post on the Zimerman performances; sounds like a 'night & day' difference? - though, I was surprised to see these works put on 2 CDs in the newer recording - will probably need to hear these discs! Dave :D
I was surprised to see these works put on 2 CDs in the newer recording
- unlike the older Giulini set, they wouldn't fit on one disc! :o
From Dang Thai-Son's recent nocturne album in the Real Chopin series:
Played on an original Erard fortepiano.
(http://cdn.tower.jp/zc/o/14/zc1646614.jpg)
The Planes' sample however, I liked much better - it actually sounds like someone he knows what to do with a period instrument! :) I need to hear more.
Surprisingly, this pussyfooting, snoozing approach does not sound like "real" Chopin to me at all... 8)
Me, too. And the piano surely has nice looks! :)
(http://homepage.mac.com/tupichan/cosmos/Nocturnes-Boegner.jpg)
Thanks for posting the clips from the Real Chopin series. I just love listening to Chopin on pianos from his era. In fact, I just sprung for the w