GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Irons on November 23, 2018, 12:40:48 AM

Title: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 23, 2018, 12:40:48 AM
This may have been tried in the past and sunk without trace.

Is there any enthusiasm with forum members for a thread on not only the LP record but the music of the era they were produced? A platform to express all views, even if you cannot stand them (an understandable view).

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 23, 2018, 08:25:22 AM
Not quite sure I understand your question.

We've had some LP-related threads, as well as any number of threads about mid-20th century music, which would be the LP era. Are you proposing to combine them in some specific way?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 24, 2018, 02:02:34 AM
Not quite sure I understand your question.

We've had some LP-related threads, as well as any number of threads about mid-20th century music, which would be the LP era. Are you proposing to combine them in some specific way?

Not sure I understand it myself. :)

There is a train-spotting element to collecting vinyl, masses of minutia concerning  labels, sound engineers, recording locations and playback, which only a vinyl-head would find of interest and frankly would bore GMG members. That aside, no matter what, the music always comes first and that is why I mentioned it. Recently there was a fascinating thread on GMG "Pianists on LP" I am unable to recall the exact title. Every era, 78's, LP, CD and now Downloads, produces "stars" and artists from past generations fade from view. It has always been thus.

I did not think such a thread in all honesty was a goer. Thanks for your response.


 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 24, 2018, 02:23:10 AM
I am something of a vinyl collector in a small way but my knowledge of such things is quite limited. I do find them interesting though. There are a number of members here who have good knowledge and memory of the vinyl age. Therefore, may I suggest that you kick things off and see what type of response you get. I will contribute in whatever way that I can and the worst that can happen to me is that I might actually learn something.  Others might find suitable topics for discussion as they arise.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Andante on November 24, 2018, 08:29:55 PM
I still have some vinyl from the 50s some good jazz of that era Kenton, MJQ etc but I seldom play them as I have a small collection of remastered CDs which do get an airing now and again.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on November 24, 2018, 08:50:41 PM
Not sure I understand it myself. :)

There is a train-spotting element to collecting vinyl, masses of minutia concerning  labels, sound engineers, recording locations and playback, which only a vinyl-head would find of interest and frankly would bore GMG members. That aside, no matter what, the music always comes first and that is why I mentioned it. Recently there was a fascinating thread on GMG "Pianists on LP" I am unable to recall the exact title. Every era, 78's, LP, CD and now Downloads, produces "stars" and artists from past generations fade from view. It has always been thus.

I did not think such a thread in all honesty was a goer. Thanks for your response.

I don't think awareness of recording minutia such as sound engineers, producers, locations, microphone configurations, etc, requires vinyl. I'm a big fan of some of the producers from the golden age of stereo and it is great to hear their work as they heard it when they listened to the playback of their master tapes.

I had a brief vinyl infatuation, but it faded fast. The only thing that tempts me back to vinyl are all of the monaural Mercury records that never made it to CD or SACD. But whenever I have found one on vinyl, it has sounded terrible.

Here's a great one that languished.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oznel1WBTyo/maxresdefault.jpg)

This is another that blew my mind when I found the very elaborate LP set from 1949. Then I found a CD transfer.

(https://img.discogs.com/gfSXTzPFF3NhQLeW9JJ1DSGEdJg=/fit-in/600x528/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7845786-1450032471-5869.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 25, 2018, 01:17:59 AM
I am something of a vinyl collector in a small way but my knowledge of such things is quite limited. I do find them interesting though. There are a number of members here who have good knowledge and memory of the vinyl age. Therefore, may I suggest that you kick things off and see what type of response you get. I will contribute in whatever way that I can and the worst that can happen to me is that I might actually learn something.  Others might find suitable topics for discussion as they arise.

I will do as you advise. Thanks.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 25, 2018, 02:04:57 AM


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oznel1WBTyo/maxresdefault.jpg)

This is another that blew my mind when I found the very elaborate LP set from 1949. Then I found a CD transfer.

(https://img.discogs.com/gfSXTzPFF3NhQLeW9JJ1DSGEdJg=/fit-in/600x528/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7845786-1450032471-5869.jpeg.jpg)

Another aspect here that I quite often admire is the older cover art work which can be quite attractive. [There is also the opposite end of that scale as well, however.] A different marketing age then of course.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 25, 2018, 02:31:21 AM
I don't think awareness of recording minutia such as sound engineers, producers, locations, microphone configurations, etc, requires vinyl. I'm a big fan of some of the producers from the golden age of stereo and it is great to hear their work as they heard it when they listened to the playback of their master tapes.

I had a brief vinyl infatuation, but it faded fast. The only thing that tempts me back to vinyl are all of the monaural Mercury records that never made it to CD or SACD. But whenever I have found one on vinyl, it has sounded terrible.

Here's a great one that languished.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oznel1WBTyo/maxresdefault.jpg)

This is another that blew my mind when I found the very elaborate LP set from 1949. Then I found a CD transfer.

(https://img.discogs.com/gfSXTzPFF3NhQLeW9JJ1DSGEdJg=/fit-in/600x528/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7845786-1450032471-5869.jpeg.jpg)

CD is a great resource of historical recordings.

Analogue and digital are different animals as are the LP record and CD. A CD is a replica, the first to the thousandth, and country of manufacture, they are the same. A first edition LP pressing is far more dynamic then pressings further down the line. In the case of Decca, a Dutch pressing has a different sound signature to the same recording from the UK. It is easy on hearing a piece to distinguish from a Philips or EMI recording. There are far more variables with LP.

You make a good point that you are just as able to appreciate the efforts of sound engineers, venues etc on CD. In the age of the CD this does not appear to me to be so important with digital recording and transfers. I may be wrong there.

The CD v LP debate bores me and I feel no missionary zeal to promote vinyl. I just enjoy listening to records.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 25, 2018, 03:23:14 AM
CD is a great resource of historical recordings.

Analogue and digital are different animals as are the LP record and CD. A CD is a replica, the first to the thousandth, and country of manufacture, they are the same. A first edition LP pressing is far more dynamic then pressings further down the line. In the case of Decca, a Dutch pressing has a different sound signature to the same recording from the UK. It is easy on hearing a piece to distinguish from a Philips or EMI recording. There are far more variables with LP.

You make a good point that you are just as able to appreciate the efforts of sound engineers, venues etc on CD. In the age of the CD this does not appear to me to be so important with digital recording and transfers. I may be wrong there.

The CD v LP debate bores me and I feel no missionary zeal to promote vinyl. I just enjoy listening to records.

I also agree with this but I do also like handling and taking care of my vinyl. Weird, yes, but hey.... ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 25, 2018, 06:22:30 AM
I also agree with this but I do also like handling and taking care of my vinyl. Weird, yes, but hey.... ;D

Oh yes. Weirdness is a prerequisite as my moniker gives a hint. Not a good day yesterday. :(
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 26, 2018, 01:32:32 AM
I was given a heads up on Supraphon issues of chamber music many years ago and collected them ever since. The Czech label Supraphon ordered from the United States state of the art Fairchild recording equipment. They took delivery just as the "Iron Curtain" took effect which effectively stopped all trade with the West. This gave Supraphon a massive advantage over other recording companies in the Eastern Block.
With the advent of stereo Supraphon designated red labels for stereo and blue for mono. After a short period red labels were dropped and nearly all, stereo and mono, were blue labels. It is said that the early red label issues were recorded with the all valve (tube) Fairchild equipment and the later blue labels with in-house modern transistor based equipment. I take the premise that all red label issues are recorded with valve equipment with a pinch of salt. It makes for a good story but too neat and tidy and that is one thing recording companies never are.
I do not set out to collect the earlier and supposedly better sounding red labels. It is a fact though that the Supraphon on my shelves with the best sound does happen to have a red label.

  (https://i.imgur.com/XtfRnRL.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/pWY6knP.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2018, 01:54:39 AM
I have kept some of my most treasured vinyls (Boult's EMI Vaughan Williams symphonies box for example) and occasionally buy an LP which meant a lot to me (Karajan's DGG recording of Honegger's 'Liturgique' Symphony for example). However, I need a new turntable as my daughter purloined my old one.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 26, 2018, 02:41:04 AM
I was given a heads up on Supraphon issues of chamber music many years ago and collected them ever since. The Czech label Supraphon ordered from the United States state of the art Fairchild recording equipment. They took delivery just as the "Iron Curtain" took effect which effectively stopped all trade with the West. This gave Supraphon a massive advantage over other recording companies in the Eastern Block.
With the advent of stereo Supraphon designated red labels for stereo and blue for mono. After a short period red labels were dropped and nearly all, stereo and mono, were blue labels. It is said that the early red label issues were recorded with the all valve (tube) Fairchild equipment and the later blue labels with in-house modern transistor based equipment. I take the premise that all red label issues are recorded with valve equipment with a pinch of salt. It makes for a good story but too neat and tidy and that is one thing recording companies never are.
I do not set out to collect the earlier and supposedly better sounding red labels. It is a fact though that the Supraphon on my shelves with the best sound does happen to have a red label.

  (https://i.imgur.com/XtfRnRL.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/pWY6knP.jpg)

There you go; you have just imparted your first piece of knowledge to me in this thread. I have many Supraphon LPs on my shelf, including the one above, and I did not know any of the information above. Success!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 26, 2018, 02:42:17 AM
I have kept some of my most treasured vinyls (Boult's EMI Vaughan Williams symphonies box for example) and occasionally buy an LP which meant a lot to me (Karajan's DGG recording of Honegger's 'Liturgique' Symphony for example). However, I need a new turntable as my daughter purloined my old one.

Good for her  ;D
I hope that she uses it and listens regularly.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 26, 2018, 07:14:23 AM
I have kept some of my most treasured vinyls (Boult's EMI Vaughan Williams symphonies box for example) and occasionally buy an LP which meant a lot to me (Karajan's DGG recording of Honegger's 'Liturgique' Symphony for example). However, I need a new turntable as my daughter purloined my old one.

Chatting to the chap at a second-hand LP/CD shop I visit, he said a surprising amount of customers purchase LPs and do not own a turntable.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on November 26, 2018, 07:15:22 AM
Chatting to the chap at a second-hand LP/CD shop I visit, he said a surprising amount of customers purchase LPs and do not own a turntable.

Makes perfect sense to me. The cover is the best part! :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 26, 2018, 07:54:19 AM
Makes perfect sense to me. The cover is the best part! :)

It is very much an important part. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5084782-classique
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 26, 2018, 08:23:35 AM
Makes perfect sense to me. The cover is the best part! :)

 :laugh:

Also, ageing eyes like mine do not require an electron microscope when reading LP cover and booklet notes as is the case with many CDs for me.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on November 26, 2018, 09:00:35 AM
Mercury has a special place in my heart. My father had the famous Mercury Living Presence recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture by Dorati (the stereo one). The LP had a peculiar sound that in not quite duplicated in the CD release. Probably the characteristics of the LP cutter and related electronics. But of course the CD brings more detail, and was prepared by the original record producer.

For years I only knew what was written in the CD notes about the production technique, three omni directional microphones suspended over the orchestra, fed directly into a 3 channel tape deck. No modification of the recording rig or tinkering with the volume settings in the course of a performance. But in those days the dynamic range of the LP, and of the tape deck, was not sufficient to capture the dynamic range of an orchestra. Other labels, such as Decca, resorted to gain-riding. I recently came across an article by Richard Fine's son (I forget where) in which he describes more of the Mercury way. Apparently they worked with the conductor to create a performance that would conform the the limitations of the recording. If there was a quiet passage they would take care not to make it so quiet that it would be inaudible on the LP. They way they could get the recording on tape without engineering interference. You can say this is an interference with the conductor's art, but it seems more honest to me and I prefer it to the engineering solution of adjusting the recording volume to get the signal that they need.

So maybe I've come up with something for your thread after all, and no vinyl was harmed in the creation of this post. :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 26, 2018, 02:05:37 PM
This may have been tried in the past and sunk without trace.

Is there any enthusiasm with forum members for a thread on not only the LP record but the music of the era they were produced? A platform to express all views, even if you cannot stand them (an understandable view).

Great idea Irons!  And thank you very much for sharing your Supraphon knowledge and comments tool 

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 26, 2018, 02:07:21 PM
I have kept some of my most treasured vinyls (Boult's EMI Vaughan Williams symphonies box for example) and occasionally buy an LP which meant a lot to me (Karajan's DGG recording of Honegger's 'Liturgique' Symphony for example). However, I need a new turntable as my daughter purloined my old one.

I'm guessing that you're (secretly?) proud of her?   ;)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on November 27, 2018, 02:07:42 AM
I'm guessing that you're (secretly?) proud of her?   ;)

PD

Yes, I am although not necessarily for removing my turntable.
 8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 27, 2018, 02:30:09 AM
Mercury has a special place in my heart. My father had the famous Mercury Living Presence recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture by Dorati (the stereo one). The LP had a peculiar sound that in not quite duplicated in the CD release. Probably the characteristics of the LP cutter and related electronics. But of course the CD brings more detail, and was prepared by the original record producer.

For years I only knew what was written in the CD notes about the production technique, three omni directional microphones suspended over the orchestra, fed directly into a 3 channel tape deck. No modification of the recording rig or tinkering with the volume settings in the course of a performance. But in those days the dynamic range of the LP, and of the tape deck, was not sufficient to capture the dynamic range of an orchestra. Other labels, such as Decca, resorted to gain-riding. I recently came across an article by Richard Fine's son (I forget where) in which he describes more of the Mercury way. Apparently they worked with the conductor to create a performance that would conform the the limitations of the recording. If there was a quiet passage they would take care not to make it so quiet that it would be inaudible on the LP. They way they could get the recording on tape without engineering interference. You can say this is an interference with the conductor's art, but it seems more honest to me and I prefer it to the engineering solution of adjusting the recording volume to get the signal that they need.

So maybe I've come up with something for your thread after all, and no vinyl was harmed in the creation of this post. :)

All your comments are gratefully received. Hopefully we vinyl-heads don't come over as a precious lot. Funnily enough it was Mercury that weaned me off CD and back to vinyl, but that is another story.

I read your post with interest and knowing that all Mercury LPs have recording details on back cover I pulled one at random. I quote -
The present recording was made on December 21st 1957 in the University of Minnesota's Northrop Memorial Auditorium. Mercury's classical staff and special recording truck were sent to Minneapolis for the sessions. The stage of three Omni-directional microphones of the highest sensitivity were suspended at the aural focal points of the hall, the points at which all orchestral choirs were perfectly balanced, instrumental timbres accurately reproduced, clarity of inner voices effectively projected, and maximum 'presence' obtained. After a level check was conducted, control of dynamics and nuance was strictly in the hands of the conductor; no monitoring or compression of any kind was done during the session or at any step in the processing from tape to disc ............ 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 27, 2018, 06:40:07 AM
I read recently where a music critic made the comment that modern chamber recordings are invariably made with excessive reverberation. This struck a chord as I often read that older recordings are dry and boxy. I agree that a dry acoustic for orchestral recordings is not a good thing but for chamber, I do not mind at all, in some cases I prefer it.

The label Lyrita started out with the owner, Richard Itter, making piano and duo recordings in his living room with a simple single mike mono setup. They are dry, similar as it would sound if the artists were actually performing in my listening room. The ear does adjust and it could be argued this is a more realistic sound picture in a "chamber" setting.

(https://img.discogs.com/vhLBHgAuq4d9f2-XumyeWHhzniM=/fit-in/487x485/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7890677-1451045801-4780.mpo.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on November 27, 2018, 07:28:05 AM
Here's a nice write-up of Mercury

https://www.stereophile.com/content/fine-art-mercury-living-presence-recordings
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 27, 2018, 08:55:49 AM
Here's a nice write-up of Mercury

https://www.stereophile.com/content/fine-art-mercury-living-presence-recordings

I was not aware there was a son when Wilma Cozart-Fine passed away. I thought eventually the rich Mercury legacy would follow. It is pleasing to learn that Tom Fine will not allow that to happen. Thanks for link.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: david johnson on November 28, 2018, 01:20:51 AM
The lp brands I enjoyed back then (and now, occasionally) were London, Angel, DGG, some Mercury.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 28, 2018, 07:54:11 AM
The lp brands I enjoyed back then (and now, occasionally) were London, Angel, DGG, some Mercury.

I'm guessing you are based in the US. London/Decca; are they the same quality (both pressed at the Decca factory at New Malden) argument has been going on for decades. Pretty obvious to me they are. American collectors are very critical of Angel, the US arm of EMI. I have not listened to an Angel pressing so cannot comment. In the 1990's thanks to TAS there was a massive surge of interest in Mercury "Living Presence" and RCA "Living Stereo" I got caught up in this myself. Not only US, but UK too,  Reiner, Dorati and other conductors on their roster were superstars. After the death of Harry Pearson, interest waned. I still retain a great affection for both labels.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 28, 2018, 08:34:59 AM
I'm guessing you are based in the US. London/Decca; are they the same quality (both pressed at the Decca factory at New Malden) argument has been going on for decades. Pretty obvious to me they are.

I agree with that - I was always happy with the London pressings.

Quote
American collectors are very critical of Angel, the US arm of EMI. I have not listened to an Angel pressing so cannot comment.

I've had many of them. They were variable - could be anywhere from awful to superb. I think Philips probably had the most reliable pressings overall.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on November 28, 2018, 10:53:32 AM
I'm guessing you are based in the US. London/Decca; are they the same quality (both pressed at the Decca factory at New Malden) argument has been going on for decades. Pretty obvious to me they are. American collectors are very critical of Angel, the US arm of EMI. I have not listened to an Angel pressing so cannot comment. In the 1990's thanks to TAS there was a massive surge of interest in Mercury "Living Presence" and RCA "Living Stereo" I got caught up in this myself. Not only US, but UK too,  Reiner, Dorati and other conductors on their roster were superstars. After the death of Harry Pearson, interest waned. I still retain a great affection for both labels.

You are not aware of the STS apocalypse. I don't know if it had the same name in the UK, but old Decca releases were sold in the US as "Stereo Treasury Series." They had covers on white background (a bit like Naxos art work) and they seemed to be the original Decca pressings, rebranded as bargain releases. They sounded fine, although they were probably a little dull because the pressing masters were so old. But around 1978 "London" started manufacturing them in the US, and the US pressings were horrible.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 29, 2018, 01:06:01 AM
You are not aware of the STS apocalypse. I don't know if it had the same name in the UK, but old Decca releases were sold in the US as "Stereo Treasury Series." They had covers on white background (a bit like Naxos art work) and they seemed to be the original Decca pressings, rebranded as bargain releases. They sounded fine, although they were probably a little dull because the pressing masters were so old. But around 1978 "London" started manufacturing them in the US, and the US pressings were horrible.

Thanks. I didn't know that. As I mentioned earlier any history of a record company is a tangled mess that defies logic. What I know of the US market is sketchy at best. By your description STS could be the US version of "Ace of Diamonds"  I would not describe them as dull though. In some cases the "Ace of Diamonds" reissues are better sonically then the SXL originals. One thing I have heard loud and clear across the Atlantic is that gold label Decca pressings are horrible. American Decca had no connection (historically they did) with the UK company and due to naming rights Decca were called "London" in the US.  1978 sounds about the time that the Decca factory in New Malden on the outskirts of London closed down. Production for the UK was switched to Holland.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on November 29, 2018, 09:38:38 AM
Thanks. I didn't know that. As I mentioned earlier any history of a record company is a tangled mess that defies logic. What I know of the US market is sketchy at best. By your description STS could be the US version of "Ace of Diamonds"  I would not describe them as dull though. In some cases the "Ace of Diamonds" reissues are better sonically then the SXL originals. One thing I have heard loud and clear across the Atlantic is that gold label Decca pressings are horrible. American Decca had no connection (historically they did) with the UK company and due to naming rights Decca were called "London" in the US.  1978 sounds about the time that the Decca factory in New Malden on the outskirts of London closed down. Production for the UK was switched to Holland.

Quite so, and they are called Decca here now that whoever owns American Decca was bought by whoever owns British Decca.

Typical cover art:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91f6ZmFzK2L._SX466_.jpg)

A lot of Ansermet in that series.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Daverz on November 29, 2018, 01:33:54 PM
You are not aware of the STS apocalypse. I don't know if it had the same name in the UK, but old Decca releases were sold in the US as "Stereo Treasury Series." They had covers on white background (a bit like Naxos art work) and they seemed to be the original Decca pressings, rebranded as bargain releases. They sounded fine, although they were probably a little dull because the pressing masters were so old. But around 1978 "London" started manufacturing them in the US, and the US pressings were horrible.

They had yellow labels and were thinner, so are easy to avoid.

The orange label London STS are usually a bargain because they sell for less than Decca pressings on the used market.

Glad to not have to worry about that sort of thing anymore.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 29, 2018, 01:46:44 PM
Cross post from the Listening Thread in relation to Angel versions:


Sibelius: Symphony No. 2 [von Karajan]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fO0AAOSwg55Zc24k/s-l1600.jpg)


This is by far my favourite version of this work. It is a strong, sweeping reading that is full of strength, drama, drive and huge intensity; compelling listening.



I have two versions of this vinyl LP, the HMV issue above and the Angel Records below. To my ear the Angel Records version has a greater presence in terms of presentation.


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/8NcAAOSwyWZZPCZi/s-l1600.jpg)


I like that portrait of the maestro.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 30, 2018, 12:50:32 AM


Glad to not have to worry about that sort of thing anymore.

 :D If I didn't worry about that I would soon find something else to worry about.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 30, 2018, 12:39:43 PM
I am one of the resident LP enthusiasts, and the author of the pianists on vinyl thread you reference. Briefly, I started collecting them in 1990 when everyone was getting rid of them. In the late 80s, I actually jumped on the CD bandwagon like everyone else. However, one day upon playing an old LP we had in the house, I found I preferred the sound of LPs in many ways--to say nothing of the tactile pleasures of the disk itself and the covers, liner notes, etc.

Back then I was an undergrad and worked on Saturdays at a book/record store, not so much for the money, but to get my hands on the vinyl everyone was bringing in and selling. However, in nearly 30 years of collecting, my collection remains relatively small and manageable at about 1200 LPs (and about as many CDs). This is largely because I have been picky about condition, and to a lesser extent, some of the minutiae you reference (I avoid pressings from certain labels in certain time intervals)

Obviously, there are many great performances from the LP era (roughly 1950 - 1990), but the sound quality is another issue for me. The debate about CD vs LP quality has been hashed over endlessly, and to the extent people disagree with me, I say GREAT--more for me!  :laugh: Clearly, there are advantages with CDs over LPs, and advancing technology (to a certain extent independent of format itself) has yielded important advances over the years--stereo, increased dynamic range, increased frequency response, etc., etc. AND YET, to my ears, there is something special about vinyl--an immediacy, a warmth (call it distortion if you want, don't really even care), and other qualities that are hard to describe. One such quality is the presentation of the acoustic envelope around the instruments--so many CDs to my ears are quite dry and sound as if the the musicians were recorded separately and overdubbed--harmonically dead!

I have extraordinarily sensitive hearing (my ENT, who has practiced for decades was floored by it when he tested me), and I have also invested a fair amount of money over the years in playback equipment--turntable, tonearm, etc. And yet, I don't really consider myself a "golden ears" audiophile. I care about the music first and foremost, and don't have unlimited funds or patience to endlessly futz around with equipment.

I have become interested in certain labels over the years, partly because of their sonic attributes. I am fascinated with the Westminster label, especially from the 1950s. Also Period, Columbia, etc from that same era. Despite all of our advances in recording/playback since then, the sound from this era is very compelling to me and other collectors I know. These were especially compelling for small ensemble, chamber, piano, voice, but not so much for organ or orchestral, for which I do often prefer more modern recordings, or even CD. As a pipe organ enthusiast, I do think this is one case in which I prefer CD, generally.

Vinyl has been coming back in a big way over the last decade or so, and it cannot be entirely due to teh much-maligned hipsters. Vinyl enthsiasts are a very diverse bunch, from classical and jazz lovers like me, to 19 year-old kids who like indie rock and don't even own a turntable (some buy the disk and download the MP3). It will never be what it once was in terms of volume, but it is certainly interesting to visit a brick and mortar record store these days. It is as if time is running in reverse ad the LPs are eating up more and more space once allocated to CDs.

Nevertheless, as a busy person, I often don't want to mess with the LPs themselves, which is why I digitize them on a regular basis (about one a week) and listen mostly on my computer or headphones, or larger system. THe special LP qualities still seem to come through on digital (although I use a higher sampling than 44.1, etc)

As for collecting, I have too much music to listen to if anything, especially on CD, where I have many large sets with many disks I have not even heard yet. I enjoy augmenting my LP collection by picking up a disk or two here and there from eBay or a brick and mortar store. But, it is a luxury, not a necessity. I like to compare it to my watch fascination--sure I could buy a $20 Timex quartz that would keep better time than my mechanical pieces, but it is just not the same!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 01, 2018, 02:49:49 AM
Thank you! A most interesting post and eloquently written.

My road to Damascus is very similar to your own. I embraced CD with a passion and sold my LP collection for a pittance. After a whole string of CD players I arrived at a state of the art Meridian player. The quest for "perfect sound for ever" did not stop there, connected to the Meridian was an all valve (tube) DAC made by Audio Note, which was not one of my best purchases; I phoned the wife from work to switch it on so as the valves were fully warmed up! The sound of CD is much improved, a big improvement from what it was. Back then, I was forever buying more and more of the silver discs seeking musical satisfaction which was proving to be elusive.
 I was an avid reader of the US hi-fi magazine TAS. Harry Pearson the owner, promoted Mercury and RCA with an infectious enthusiasm. Each recording was poured over by the minutest detail. In the early 90's Wilma Cozart began to remaster the Mercury catalogue to CD. I loved them, buying every CD on release. Mercury, Everest and RCA were my musical nirvana back then. I started to think if I like analogue recordings from the 1950's so much more then digital recordings then it may be a sensible idea to listen to them on the equipment they were intended for. It took a few more years before I actually took the plunge - or more accurately a back somersault - when vinyl re-entered my life.
No argument, LP and what it is played on is a faff. But I enjoy the hobby side of it.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 01, 2018, 03:09:37 AM
Two well written posts, guys, with many sentiments echoing my own experiences; selling off the vinyl collection and equipment, investing in the new technology and ultimately reverting back many years later. I also still inhabit both media worlds and I only know of one friend who operates exclusively in vinyl. 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 01, 2018, 07:57:39 AM
Two well written posts, guys, with many sentiments echoing my own experiences; selling off the vinyl collection and equipment, investing in the new technology and ultimately reverting back many years later. I also still inhabit both media worlds and I only know of one friend who operates exclusively in vinyl.

I didn't own a CD player until quite recently. The reason I got one is I felt I was missing out on music and artists of the last thirty odd years. As I said I have no wish to score points on either as to which is best. Two things struck me though, music itself, or rather the way it is played, has changed. The HIP movement has had a noticeable positive affect in the intervening years. CD sound has improved, the one thing that bothers me with the medium is ironically, background noise! The music emerges from a blackness, my wife has noticed the same thing. Excessive surface noise from vinyl is usually a sign of a poorly setup or matched system. Get that right, and train your brain to ignore the odd pop and click, and then a LP record produces a natural organic sound.   
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 01, 2018, 10:42:41 AM
I didn't own a CD player until quite recently. The reason I got one is I felt I was missing out on music and artists of the last thirty odd years. As I said I have no wish to score points on either as to which is best. Two things struck me though, music itself, or rather the way it is played, has changed. The HIP movement has had a noticeable positive affect in the intervening years. CD sound has improved, the one thing that bothers me with the medium is ironically, background noise! The music emerges from a blackness, my wife has noticed the same thing. Excessive surface noise from vinyl is usually a sign of a poorly setup or matched system. Get that right, and train your brain to ignore the odd pop and click, and then a LP record produces a natural organic sound.

Two very valid points highlighted above with which I heartily agree. The friend that I referred to above has minimal interest in Classical Music so for him it is not an issue. I would not want to be without my CD collection either.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 02, 2018, 04:12:23 AM
I don't think I have heard a Philips recording with better sound. Fascinating to hear Bach (both) filtered through Mozart.

(https://img.discogs.com/ibPu6uTsfmeNVlVio0cNY6rxYKg=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7795301-1448922863-4724.gif.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 02, 2018, 07:48:04 AM
Cross post from the Listening Thread:


Quote
Handel: Messiah [Beecham]


(https://img.discogs.com/ZRd-OUVQmYqNzNh9SEzXl-COaOs=/fit-in/600x744/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12052537-1527344884-8535.jpeg.jpg)   (https://img.discogs.com/i4-lSy7JPWmUvEiPt2a89rZLhko=/fit-in/600x638/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12052537-1527346200-3365.jpeg.jpg)


This is an interesting historical performance. There is no booklet with the set unfortunately so I do not know the year of the performance. It is an enjoyable performance, one of its time, but obviously quite different in presentation from today’s period performances. We are also treated to an interesting introduction [spoken by Beecham himself] which discusses the balance required between choral and orchestral forces in this work which is interesting in itself for that time.


This is among the oldest vinyl that I have in my collection. The set of 4 LPs are housed in 4 sturdy cardboard pages that are hinged to a metal bar inside giving a book effect; a legacy of the old 78 presentations.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 03, 2018, 12:32:52 AM
Cross post from the Listening Thread:



This is among the oldest vinyl that I have in my collection. The set of 4 LPs are housed in 4 sturdy cardboard pages that are hinged to a metal bar inside giving a book effect; a legacy of the old 78 presentations.

My first reaction was they were a set of 78's but then read the small print. Must be very early. Going by the date helpfully given, could it be possible it was simultaneous release on 78 and 33 1/3 ? Which would explain the unusual packaging.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 03, 2018, 12:42:23 AM
One of the greatest recordings ever made in any era, in any medium, is Janos Starker's early 50s recording of the Kodaly sonata for unaccompanied Cello Op. 8, originally recorded on the Period label. It was reissued a number of times on this label, but I have the first one--which was an extremely lucky find. The sound quality is astounding; I have seen people's jaws drop upon hearing this played on my system. The ability of certain early 50s recording engineers to capture the gestalt and timbral accuracy, and immediacy of certain instruments was really phenomenal. (Compare to the sounds you hear in a modern movie theater, which to my ears are horrifically distorted and ugly)

The idea about music coming out of blackness is an interesting one; the medium of vinyl itself has a certain sonic texture of its own, as does canvas as a medium for painting, celluloid for movies, and even stone or wood for three dimensional objects. New vinyl pressings can be extremely quiet, but I actually find the little bit of noise to be a natural and comforting background. In Photoshop, there is actually a feature to add grain to an image, as some people like the texture imparted by the film itself; and indeed in digital image editing, noise reduction and sharpness are always at odds. I am also very drawn to the sound of the rain, which is very much like some vinyl sounds. When I was a kid I used to like to turn the TV to snow and listen.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 03, 2018, 12:52:52 AM
One of the greatest recordings ever made in any era, in any medium, is Janos Starker's early 50s recording of the Kodaly sonata for unaccompanied Cello Op. 8, originally recorded on the Period label. It was reissued a number of times on this label, but I have the first one--which was an extremely lucky find. The sound quality is astounding; I have seen people's jaws drop upon hearing this played on my system. The ability of certain early 50s recording engineers to capture the gestalt and timbral accuracy, and immediacy of certain instruments was really phenomenal. (Compare to the sounds you hear in a modern movie theater, which to my ears are horrifically distorted and ugly)

The idea about music coming out of blackness is an interesting one; the medium of vinyl itself has a certain sonic texture of its own, as does canvas as a medium for painting, celluloid for movies, and even stone or wood for three dimensional objects. New vinyl pressings can be extremely quiet, but I actually find the little bit of noise to be a natural and comforting background. In Photoshop, there is actually a feature to add grain to an image, as some people like the texture imparted by the film itself; and indeed in digital image editing, noise reduction and sharpness are always at odds. I am also very drawn to the sound of the rain, which is very much like some vinyl sounds. When I was a kid I used to like to turn the TV to snow and listen.

I think one of the reissues was on Saga who also reissued Starker's two LP's he made for Period of the Bach solo cello suites.

I am pleased you at least made some sense of my "blackness" comment. Perhaps "deadness" is more accurate.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 03, 2018, 01:10:53 AM
You may find this book of interest. I am interested too, but I have so many other things to read, I doubt I will get to it. Also, I am not completely sold on all the arguments; I am a professional photo/electron micrographer and amateur landscape photographer, and I very much doubt I will ever go back to film.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61fE-QEXQdL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Revenge-Analog-Real-Things-Matter/dp/1610398211/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543828081&sr=8-1&keywords=revenge+of+analog
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 03, 2018, 01:19:35 AM
Milos Sadlo is not the most of famous cellists. It was a hard slog for him to achieve what he did. An artist living under the Soviet yoke was not easy unless you were fortunate enough to be an appointed one. As a young cellist he had a big break, his label Supraphon chose him to be soloist in the greatest of all Czech works for cello, Dvorak's concerto. Vaclav Talich was to conduct the Czech Phil. After many hours of rehearsal they were ready to record. At the same time another young, but more famous cellist, happened to be in Prague. Perhaps ordered by Moscow, Supraphon kicked Sadlo out and made a famous recording with Rostropovich. Later, Sadlo did make a recording of Dvorak but Talich was long gone.

Listening to Sadlo playing Bach this story comes to mind. There is a humility in his playing, he is not playing for himself, or even  the listener but for Bach. I looked to see if this set enjoyed a release on CD, I cannot find anything. Can't say I'm surprised.

(http://classicrecords.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1111701.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 03, 2018, 01:25:04 AM
You may find this book of interest. I am interested too, but I have so many other things to read, I doubt I will get to it. Also, I am not completely sold on all the arguments; I am a professional photo/electron micrographer and amateur landscape photographer, and I very much doubt I will ever go back to film.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61fE-QEXQdL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Revenge-Analog-Real-Things-Matter/dp/1610398211/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543828081&sr=8-1&keywords=revenge+of+analog

Thanks. I listened to an interview on the radio recently with David Bailey and he said he would never use a digital camera.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on December 03, 2018, 02:03:47 PM
I don't think I have heard a Philips recording with better sound. Fascinating to hear Bach (both) filtered through Mozart.

(https://img.discogs.com/ibPu6uTsfmeNVlVio0cNY6rxYKg=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7795301-1448922863-4724.gif.jpg)

Nostalgia rush!

I had that LP, and I have the CD, which was mastered a bit over-bright and doesn't have quite the silkiness of the LP (as I remember it, anyway). In the end, I don't think the performance is the best available. The same forces were more at home in the Mozart recordings, I think (trio, Quintets with friends).

Here's one I wish I had back (well, no turntable).

(https://img.discogs.com/7aWiN3DooWU0NiLNe6Jlx12OHQ0=/fit-in/600x603/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9466366-1482942381-6778.png.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 04, 2018, 01:01:46 AM
Nostalgia rush!


Here's one I wish I had back (well, no turntable).

(https://img.discogs.com/7aWiN3DooWU0NiLNe6Jlx12OHQ0=/fit-in/600x603/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9466366-1482942381-6778.png.jpg)

I have the box set which sold like hot cakes! No.4 and No.5 seem to be the most popular, I like No.1 very much. Could be argued Mozart's greatest chamber works.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on December 04, 2018, 01:33:04 AM
Here's a record which I am sure is better on LP than CD.

(https://img.discogs.com/0doewYXMhm_1Tm8Z64TatQj1L-M=/fit-in/600x608/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6134247-1432159966-5424.jpeg.jpg)

I won't comment on why.  :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 04, 2018, 05:00:38 AM
Very nice, and the music is not bad either!

One big advantage of LP over CD is cover art. Nothing could possibly compare with this one!

(https://i.imgur.com/U6s715P.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 04, 2018, 08:35:16 AM

(https://img.discogs.com/ZRd-OUVQmYqNzNh9SEzXl-COaOs=/fit-in/600x744/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12052537-1527344884-8535.jpeg.jpg)   (https://img.discogs.com/i4-lSy7JPWmUvEiPt2a89rZLhko=/fit-in/600x638/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12052537-1527346200-3365.jpeg.jpg)

 
My first reaction was they were a set of 78's but then read the small print. Must be very early. Going by the date helpfully given, could it be possible it was simultaneous release on 78 and 33 1/3 ? Which would explain the unusual packaging.

Good point; I did not think of that.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on December 04, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
Good point; I did not think of that.

It's been released on CD.

https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Messiah-Elsie-Suddaby/dp/B00000FDCF/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1543944291&sr=8-5&keywords=handel+beecham+messiah+royal+philharmonic

One of the comments describes it as a 1947 recording. That would put it before the first LP was marketed, in 1949 and the transfer is described as done from 78 rpm discs.

By that time analog tape recorders existed, but it may be that the original recordings were cut into discs rather than put on tape. Although the LP became commercial in 1949 vinyl discs running at 33 1/3 were in common use for radio transcription and other professional sound production purposes as early as the 1930s.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 04, 2018, 09:48:45 AM
It's been released on CD.

https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Messiah-Elsie-Suddaby/dp/B00000FDCF/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1543944291&sr=8-5&keywords=handel+beecham+messiah+royal+philharmonic

One of the comments describes it as a 1947 recording. That would put it before the first LP was marketed, in 1949 and the transfer is described as done from 78 rpm discs.

By that time analog tape recorders existed, but it may be that the original recordings were cut into discs rather than put on tape. Although the LP became commercial in 1949 vinyl discs running at 33 1/3 were in common use for radio transcription and other professional sound production purposes as early as the 1930s.

Thank you very much for the additional information which is very interesting. Perhaps it explains why it is a 4 X LP set which I did not previously mention.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on December 04, 2018, 10:00:21 AM
Thank you very much for the additional information which is very interesting. Perhaps it explains why it is a 4 X LP set which I did not previously mention.

I remember reading somewhere that since they did not have sound "editing" in those days and disc cutting could not be interrupted they would master an 20 minutes LP from 3 minute shellac discs by having an array phonographs cued up.  When as each shellac disc ended they would switch over to the next disc.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 04, 2018, 11:10:01 AM
I remember reading somewhere that since they did not have sound "editing" in those days and disc cutting could not be interrupted they would master an 20 minutes LP from 3 minute shellac discs by having an array phonographs cued up.  When as each shellac disc ended they would switch over to the next disc.

Thank you once again for the interesting information. It was, obviously, a different world back then but they still managed to achieve wonderful things.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on December 04, 2018, 02:53:39 PM
This may have been tried in the past and sunk without trace.

Is there any enthusiasm with forum members for a thread on not only the LP record but the music of the era they were produced? A platform to express all views, even if you cannot stand them (an understandable view).

You might be interested in this thread I started years ago - it's about LPs that were never reissued, or are hard to find:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22613.msg765709.html#msg765709
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 05, 2018, 01:36:57 AM
You might be interested in this thread I started years ago - it's about LPs that were never reissued, or are hard to find:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22613.msg765709.html#msg765709

What goes around, comes around! The sadly defunct magazine "Classical Record Collector" made up a list of recordings of note that never made it to CD. If I can find that issue (out of 81 and no index) I will post. Reading through the thread; I have the Barber/Schuman recording and agree it being very good. I'm alerted to the Dezso Ranki Haydn piano sonatas sets. Will definitely look for those. It is common knowledge that the Decca engineers were not overly impressed with the RCA Dynagroove process. Although RCA recordings pressed by Decca for the UK sport the Dynagroove logo the pressings are not.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 07, 2018, 01:48:11 AM
Recorded at Abbey Road studios 25-27 March 1956. Producer: Walter Legge.

(https://i.imgur.com/MEhW5MO.jpg)

Beethoven's Grosse Fuge and Klemperer conducting the Philharmonia strings are made for each other. A monumental performance of a monumental work.
On paper the couplings are odd, but actually Walter Legge was shrewd. Considering the Grosse Fuge in the original form for string quartet was unintelligible to audiences at its first performances and Mozart wrote Adagio and Fugue K. 546 forty years before Beethoven's work, then Mozart's Adagio and Fugue is not far off being as revolutionary. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik it is not.
To have these works similar in scope and form following each other would be too much. Sandwiched between them is a very fine Serenta Notturna which is a complete contrast. The Philharmonia of the 1950's is my favourite orchestra and enjoying especially the contribution in SN of Manoug Parikian (1st violin) David Wise (2nd violin) Herbert Downes (viola) and James Merrett (double bass).
The image on the front cover is of Otto Klemperer's hands resting on the score of Grosse Fuge.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 09, 2018, 01:34:16 AM
Seeing aligreto's post of the Brahms Double Concerto on "What are you listening to now" thread I was reminded of a long held belief that with CD you are able to pick and choose the way a collection of music takes shape. Vinyl isn't like that, in a way it chooses you, not you choose it. The Double Concerto is a fine work but an overload to have on the shelves -

Bruno Walter with Francescatti/Fournier.
George Szell with Oistrakh/Rostropovich.
Paul Kletzki with Ferras/Tortelier  (two copies, EMI and WRC).
Ferenc Fricsay with Schneiderhan/Starker.
Bernard Haitink with Szeryng/Starker.
Karel Ancerl with Suk/Navarra.

The closest work to the Brahms, Beethoven's Triple Concerto, I do not own a single copy!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 09, 2018, 03:35:16 AM
Seeing aligreto's post of the Brahms Double Concerto on "What are you listening to now" thread I was reminded of a long held belief that with CD you are able to pick and choose the way a collection of music takes shape. Vinyl isn't like that, in a way it chooses you, not you choose it. The Double Concerto is a fine work but an overload to have on the shelves -

Bruno Walter with Francescatti/Fournier.
George Szell with Oistrakh/Rostropovich.
Paul Kletzki with Ferras/Tortelier  (two copies, EMI and WRC).
Ferenc Fricsay with Schneiderhan/Starker.
Bernard Haitink with Szeryng/Starker.
Karel Ancerl with Suk/Navarra.

The closest work to the Brahms, Beethoven's Triple Concerto, I do not own a single copy!

I think that there is a large element of truth in that. Even to this day, and after all of my collecting, I am still very likely to get a WOW factor if I spot an LP that excites me. I would not have the same reaction with a CD even though I would buy it. Funny that. 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 09, 2018, 08:06:27 AM
I love it! Flipping through a stack of records and coming across something interesting. Terry O'Sullivan of Loricraft Audio said to me once "I can't stop buying them"! Sadly nor can I.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 12, 2018, 08:29:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ifzfFZE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/u6JutC2.jpg)

Big boxes featuring a single instrumentalist or conductor became popular with CD. Not so common on LP which is a pity. There were a few which mostly featured pianists, people like Richter and Kempff amongst others. I have always admired Clara Haskil and Philips have done her proud with this set of nine LPs. Setting out on a Haskil odyssey I started with disc1, one of the greatest piano sonatas, Schubert D.960. When an artist such as Haskil plays such an important work, for a layman to even attempt to analyse is ridiculous. Just sit back and enjoy which is what I did. She is well known for her Mozart, I am looking forward to Schumann and Scarlatti played by Clara Haskil.   
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 12, 2018, 09:00:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ifzfFZE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/u6JutC2.jpg)

Big boxes featuring a single instrumentalist or conductor became popular with CD. Not so common on LP which is a pity. There were a few which mostly featured pianists, people like Richter and Kempff amongst others. I have always admired Clara Haskil and Philips have done her proud with this set of nine LPs. Setting out on a Haskil odyssey I started with disc1, one of the greatest piano sonatas, Schubert D.960. When an artist such as Haskil plays such an important work, for a layman to even attempt to analyse is ridiculous. Just sit back and enjoy which is what I did. She is well known for her Mozart, I am looking forward to Schumann and Scarlatti played by Clara Haskil.

That looks like a very nice set indeed.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on December 12, 2018, 09:11:10 AM
Big boxes featuring a single instrumentalist or conductor became popular with CD. Not so common on LP which is a pity.

The reason seems obvious to me. CDs are cheap, LPs were expensive. I don't mind buying a CD set for which I am only interested in half the content. No one in those days wanted to pay for a duplicate LP or an LP that they were not interested listening to.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 13, 2018, 12:30:44 AM
The reason seems obvious to me. CDs are cheap, LPs were expensive. I don't mind buying a CD set for which I am only interested in half the content. No one in those days wanted to pay for a duplicate LP or an LP that they were not interested listening to.

Good point.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 22, 2018, 05:55:19 AM
I must confess that one aspect of the vinyl world that I have never liked is the Auto-Coupling back in the days of record changers and the sequence of play necessitated by that. I just want to moan about this as I have recently listened to three older LP box sets presented in this way.


(https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2016/8/10/7/2/f/72f6189e-5f07-11e6-833a-9b3fcf600810.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 24, 2018, 07:40:19 AM
I must confess that one aspect of the vinyl world that I have never liked is the Auto-Coupling back in the days of record changers and the sequence of play necessitated by that. I just want to moan about this as I have recently listened to three older LP box sets presented in this way.


(https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2016/8/10/7/2/f/72f6189e-5f07-11e6-833a-9b3fcf600810.jpg)

A pain. Perhaps not quite as bad, but for me off-putting is box sets with a single work on two separate LPs. For example first two movements on second side and movements three and four on the first side of the following LP of the set.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 24, 2018, 08:01:43 AM
A pain. Perhaps not quite as bad, but for me off-putting is box sets with a single work on two separate LPs. For example first two movements on second side and movements three and four on the first side of the following LP of the set.

That one is not such a bad one for me.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 24, 2018, 08:09:15 AM
That one is not such a bad one for me.
And you are right. What is the difference of turning a disc over or reaching for a second one? But I passed on a box set only last week for this very reason.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: JBS on December 24, 2018, 08:15:21 AM
And you are right. What is the difference of turning a disc over or reaching for a second one? But I passed on a box set only last week for this very reason.

Some automatic record changers might have been able to flip over the LP, but most did not.  Hence the sequencing over separate LPs.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 24, 2018, 08:47:58 AM
And you are right. What is the difference of turning a disc over or reaching for a second one? But I passed on a box set only last week for this very reason.

That is a shame but that is what it is.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 27, 2018, 04:23:43 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Km6972pS_48/WqFjoyU2hbI/AAAAAAAAAco/UNgo4Cqz8b0Xa5sDzwx3rCb_6N9wLePJwCHMYCw/HMV-CLP-1765-sleeve-front_thumb1?imgmax=800)

Pougnet, Riddle and Pini made some excellent string trio recordings for Westminster in Vienna during the early 1950's. EMI waited over ten years to release them under licence in the UK, and then only for a short period. They are well worth looking out for and when they turn up I do not hesitate. A Mozart Divertimento K. 563 is outstanding. Jean Pougnet, who's father was a conductor, was a top violinist of his time and also appeared as a soloist. His RVW "The Lark Ascending" is my favourite recording. There is a lot of competition for the Mozart K. 563 but less for the early Beethoven trios and it is these recordings I treasure the most.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 29, 2018, 05:14:44 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Km6972pS_48/WqFjoyU2hbI/AAAAAAAAAco/UNgo4Cqz8b0Xa5sDzwx3rCb_6N9wLePJwCHMYCw/HMV-CLP-1765-sleeve-front_thumb1?imgmax=800)

Pougnet, Riddle and Pini made some excellent string trio recordings for Westminster in Vienna during the early 1950's. EMI waited over ten years to release them under licence in the UK, and then only for a short period. They are well worth looking out for and when they turn up I do not hesitate. A Mozart Divertimento K. 563 is outstanding. Jean Pougnet, who's father was a conductor, was a top violinist of his time and also appeared as a soloist. His RVW "The Lark Ascending" is my favourite recording. There is a lot of competition for the Mozart K. 563 but less for the early Beethoven trios and it is these recordings I treasure the most.

Noted and thank you.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 02, 2019, 05:54:22 AM
Thanks. I didn't know that. As I mentioned earlier any history of a record company is a tangled mess that defies logic. What I know of the US market is sketchy at best. By your description STS could be the US version of "Ace of Diamonds"  I would not describe them as dull though. In some cases the "Ace of Diamonds" reissues are better sonically then the SXL originals. One thing I have heard loud and clear across the Atlantic is that gold label Decca pressings are horrible. American Decca had no connection (historically they did) with the UK company and due to naming rights Decca were called "London" in the US.  1978 sounds about the time that the Decca factory in New Malden on the outskirts of London closed down. Production for the UK was switched to Holland.

I made the mistake about 10(?) years ago buying a label Decca record (one with Casals) with a pretty pink and gold cover.  Well, it didn't do it any favors that it needed cleaning and was before I had purchased an RCM, but even after that, it was so horribly noisy!  I later read on another forum about the gold label's reputation and avoid them.  When looking around at used records, I am quite happy when I see the London ones--but pressed in the UK.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 02, 2019, 06:14:56 AM
The reason seems obvious to me. CDs are cheap, LPs were expensive. I don't mind buying a CD set for which I am only interested in half the content. No one in those days wanted to pay for a duplicate LP or an LP that they were not interested listening to.

I remember a friend (who is a bit older) telling me that when she started buying LPs that it cost her a week's salary to purchase one of Wagner's operas.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on January 02, 2019, 07:19:29 AM
I remember a friend (who is a bit older) telling me that when she started buying LPs that it cost her a week's salary to purchase one of Wagner's operas.

PD

When I started buying LPs in 1968/69 a full-price disc cost £2-3s-9d, a bargain price Music for Pleasure disc cost 10/9d. In the summer of 1969 I earned £9-12-0 per week working as a storeman. At the time the exchange rate was $2.40 to the pound. No idea what these prices translate into nowadays.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 06, 2019, 04:14:58 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/ji334PltJcIYvhmrNo4HhykNamM=/fit-in/600x605/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5484123-1394554453-4101.jpeg.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61x%2BKaIBFoL._SY355_.jpg)

Aligreto featured a post of a LP from the Contour label. Serious collectors of vinyl turn their collective nose up at these reissues which is brilliant news for aligreto and myself. They are plentiful and inexpensive, on average about £2 but are a treasure-trove of great music from the top artists of the day at DG, Philips and Decca. Each back-cover has prominently printed "This record has been specially pressed to classical record standards". I actually think they are! Both pressings and transfers are top quality, the only criticism is that the vinyl is thin, I do not put as much importance to weight of vinyl as some other collectors do.
An interesting side issue is the famous Ansermet Decca recording of Scheherzade which is coupled with Borodin's Polovtsian Dances of which a good early pressing you would expect to pay £50. The same recording on Contour is superior for the simple reason Polovtsian Dances is omitted allowing for wider groove spacing for Scheherzade, and costs a fraction of the Decca original. I have both and prefer the sound of the Contour pressing.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on January 06, 2019, 06:02:47 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/ji334PltJcIYvhmrNo4HhykNamM=/fit-in/600x605/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5484123-1394554453-4101.jpeg.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61x%2BKaIBFoL._SY355_.jpg)

Aligreto featured a post of a LP from the Contour label. Serious collectors of vinyl turn their collective nose up at these reissues which is brilliant news for aligreto and myself. They are plentiful and inexpensive, on average about £2 but are a treasure-trove of great music from the top artists of the day at DG, Philips and Decca. Each back-cover has prominently printed "This record has been specially pressed to classical record standards". I actually think they are! Both pressings and transfers are top quality, the only criticism is that the vinyl is thin, I do not put as much importance to weight of vinyl as some other collectors do.
An interesting side issue is the famous Ansermet Decca recording of Scheherzade which is coupled with Borodin's Polovtsian Dances of which a good early pressing you would expect to pay £50. The same recording on Contour is superior for the simple reason Polovtsian Dances is omitted allowing for wider groove spacing for Scheherzade, and costs a fraction of the Decca original. I have both and prefer the sound of the Contour pressing.

Yes, I have around twenty or so Contour LPs and enjoy them all. Despite the fact that they appear flimsy due to their being so thin I have never had an issue with any of them quality wise. However, let us keep this a secret between ourselves  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 07, 2019, 07:45:06 AM
Yes, I have around twenty or so Contour LPs and enjoy them all. Despite the fact that they appear flimsy due to their being so thin I have never had an issue with any of them quality wise. However, let us keep this a secret between ourselves  ;D
[/b]

...or to the three of us?   ;)  Thanks for the info gents though I probably won't run across many of the LPs where I live (but will file it away in the dusty and cobweb-filled back corners of my brain should I perhaps run across one of them).

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 07, 2019, 08:27:19 AM
[/b]

...or to the three of us?   ;)  Thanks for the info gents though I probably won't run across many of the LPs where I live (but will file it away in the dusty and cobweb-filled back corners of my brain should I perhaps run across one of them).

PD

A sister label in the US, Quintessence.

Contour Classics list https://www.discogs.com/label/89072-Contour-Red-Label
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 08, 2019, 10:17:16 AM
A sister label in the US, Quintessence.

Contour Classics list https://www.discogs.com/label/89072-Contour-Red-Label

Thank you for the tip.  I wonder how the pressings compare?  I believe that I have picked up a few of the Quintessence ones from one or more charity shops.  I know that I've at least seen them....is anyone else here familiar with their pressings?  When I have a chance, I'll dig amongst my LPs a bit...trying to recall what I might have purchased and brought home with me!   :-[
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on January 08, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
Thank you for the tip.  I wonder how the pressings compare?  I believe that I have picked up a few of the Quintessence ones from one or more charity shops.  I know that I've at least seen them....is anyone else here familiar with their pressings?  When I have a chance, I'll dig amongst my LPs a bit...trying to recall what I might have purchased and brought home with me!   :-[

No need for embarrassment here, we all do that. That is why we are here  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 11, 2019, 08:35:02 AM
I have not listened to Hi-res (not even sure what it is) but a view from someone who has. https://youtu.be/z4OJo8RVueA
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 11, 2019, 10:32:09 AM
Thank you for the tip.  I wonder how the pressings compare?  I believe that I have picked up a few of the Quintessence ones from one or more charity shops.  I know that I've at least seen them....is anyone else here familiar with their pressings?

I've had a few Quintessences - I think their main biz was US licensing of European labels. I had some that were originally on Supraphon, but the only one I have now is Leonhardt's 3rd and final Goldbergs, originally on DHM. Pressing sounds great to me, no problems at all.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 13, 2019, 03:08:58 AM
I've had a few Quintessences - I think their main biz was US licensing of European labels. I had some that were originally on Supraphon, but the only one I have now is Leonhardt's 3rd and final Goldbergs, originally on DHM. Pressing sounds great to me, no problems at all.

Interestingly, Quintessence was a source for the Readers Digest boxes. I was always under the impression that RCA were the sole provider of recordings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintessence_Records

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 15, 2019, 08:36:09 AM
Thank you Archaic Torso of Apollo for your feedback.

Interesting, Irons, I didn't know that!

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 15, 2019, 07:28:26 PM
I recently finished digitizing/FLAC-ing the Ginette Doyen Songs Without Words cycle on 1950s Westminster (a wonderful complete set obtained last year on eBay). The set is a real joy, played with great sensitivity (but not sentimentality), a great beauty of tone, and the wonderful mono Westminster sonics I have always appreciated.

(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Fimg.discogs.com%2FuZYVN2CuvDKV5fn_U263qDTHGwo%3D%2Ffit-in%2F600x600%2Ffilters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)%2Fdiscogs-images%2FR-9240196-1477185525-8313.jpeg.jpg&sp=8cf0e2d49b9844f78ee4b6ff97b59786)

NOTE: The track listings on the back cover (but not the record label) are horribly inaccurate.

Vol 2 not online! I had to photograph it myself--green cover. Have not post-processed it yet!

(https://img.discogs.com/blJ9tXsldRhwh40Znfb7PkPCAi0=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9478672-1481293984-1157.jpeg.jpg)

She did not record very much, but the Faure violin sonatas, Handel violin Sonatas with Jean Fournier (her husband), and a disc of CHabrier 10 Pieces Pittoresques are on my list of future eBay purchases.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 16, 2019, 12:48:40 AM
I recently finished digitizing/FLAC-ing the Ginette Doyen Songs Without Words cycle on 1950s Westminster (a wonderful complete set obtained last year on eBay). The set is a real joy, played with great sensitivity (but not sentimentality), a great beauty of tone, and the wonderful mono Westminster sonics I have always appreciated.

(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Fimg.discogs.com%2FuZYVN2CuvDKV5fn_U263qDTHGwo%3D%2Ffit-in%2F600x600%2Ffilters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)%2Fdiscogs-images%2FR-9240196-1477185525-8313.jpeg.jpg&sp=8cf0e2d49b9844f78ee4b6ff97b59786)

NOTE: The track listings on the back cover (but not the record label) are horribly inaccurate.

Vol 2 not online! I had to photograph it myself--green cover. Have not post-processed it yet!

(https://img.discogs.com/blJ9tXsldRhwh40Znfb7PkPCAi0=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9478672-1481293984-1157.jpeg.jpg)

She did not record very much, but the Faure violin sonatas, Handel violin Sonatas with Jean Fournier (her husband), and a disc of CHabrier 10 Pieces Pittoresques are on my list of future eBay purchases.

Very nice indeed! Were your eBay purchases clean pressings? I realise that you are able to smooth out the sound in the digital domain but understand to do this successfully requires some skill and patience. I am told clean-up programs have a detrimental effect on the sound. Which method do you use and how do you find the results?

I know of Ginette Doyen. Although I have many recordings by her husband, both as a violinist and conductor, sadly none by her. I see she has also made a Debussy recording.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81CMA640MlL._SX679_.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 16, 2019, 06:40:26 AM
I hadn't heard of Ginette Doyen before now.  Did she record much?  I'll have to keep an eye out for her albums.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 17, 2019, 11:54:05 PM
Hi,

Ginette Doyen did not record a whole lot, but including records as an accompanist, there seem to be about a dozen doyen.  :laugh:

I do not use any noise reduction software in digitizing LPs. Surface noise does not bother me as long as it is not excessive. And of course, the older the disc is, the more there will be in general. The Doyen Mendelssohn records are from the early 50s (With few exceptions, I always prefer first pressings) and there is more noise than what you'd get with something newer. It is part of the charm. I would not try to make an LP sound like a CD; it would trash the sonics. Some noise is just a part of the medium, like grain with film and imperfections in old movie reels, sediment in fine red wine, grain in wood, etc. Some of the best and most interesting things in life have some sort of surface texture and imperfections... 

I clean all of my records on a Keith Monks or Clearaudio machine and I am quite picky about condition to begin with. Still, one cannot see all defects, and occasionally, if there is a loud pop, I can edit that out quite easily in Audacity--zoom way in, and the amount of time I end up deleting is well under a second--barely noticeable. I do this more to save my speakers than anything else...
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: (: premont :) on January 18, 2019, 12:29:48 AM

I do not use any noise reduction software in digitizing LPs. Surface noise does not bother me as long as it is not excessive. And of course, the older the disc is, the more there will be in general. The Doyen Mendelssohn records are from the early 50s (With few exceptions, I always prefer first pressings) and there is more noise than what you'd get with something newer. It is part of the charm. I would not try to make an LP sound like a CD; it would trash the sonics. Some noise is just a part of the medium, like grain with film and imperfections in old movie reels, sediment in fine red wine, grain in wood, etc. Some of the best and most interesting things in life have some sort of surface texture and imperfections... 

I agree very much with this. When digitizing all my LPs (and cassette tapes) some twenty years ago. I aimed particularly at retaining the "air" of the LPs, so neither did I use noise reduction - having (of course) secured that the surface of the LP was clean. Often an antistatic pistol was all what was needed.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 18, 2019, 05:54:52 AM
Thank you for the further info (and for the bad/good play on words too!).  I haven't tried digitizing any LPs before (save a few 78's done years ago onto a cassette--a parent's special Christmas LPs), but do have a RCM which I've used to clean up some LPs when needed.   :)

Enjoy your douzaine of the doyenne Doyen!

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 20, 2019, 06:37:47 AM
Hi,

Ginette Doyen did not record a whole lot, but including records as an accompanist, there seem to be about a dozen doyen.  :laugh:

I do not use any noise reduction software in digitizing LPs. Surface noise does not bother me as long as it is not excessive. And of course, the older the disc is, the more there will be in general. The Doyen Mendelssohn records are from the early 50s (With few exceptions, I always prefer first pressings) and there is more noise than what you'd get with something newer. It is part of the charm. I would not try to make an LP sound like a CD; it would trash the sonics. Some noise is just a part of the medium, like grain with film and imperfections in old movie reels, sediment in fine red wine, grain in wood, etc. Some of the best and most interesting things in life have some sort of surface texture and imperfections... 

I clean all of my records on a Keith Monks or Clearaudio machine and I am quite picky about condition to begin with. Still, one cannot see all defects, and occasionally, if there is a loud pop, I can edit that out quite easily in Audacity--zoom way in, and the amount of time I end up deleting is well under a second--barely noticeable. I do this more to save my speakers than anything else...

So refreshing to read your post. Surface noise is system dependent but as you point out it is not such a big deal anyway. There are extraneous noises at a live concert which our brain filters out. Sit down alone in a crowded pub and beam in on a person across the room, you will hear their conservation above all the other noise. I am seldom aware of surface noise playing vinyl, as pressings are clean, my system does not highlight it and most importantly I concentrate on the music. 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on January 20, 2019, 09:29:06 AM
Vinyl hygiene is very important to help eliminate excessive surface noise as we all know. I believe that the attention to detail in terms of storage, handling and cleaning is one of the major factors in precluding some from re-entering this market. I am constantly surprised at the condition of many of the LPs that I pick up second hand. They are not scratched or damaged [I would not buy them otherwise] but some of them can be quite dirty. However, they generally clean up very well. I can never understand how they can be let get into that condition by previous owners.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 20, 2019, 06:00:19 PM
Typically, spindle tracks on the label (laziness and/or insufficient light  ::) ) and ring wear on the cover are warning signs the LP may have been abused. Also, generally, I've noted the more obscure the music, the more likely the LP will be in good condition. Everyone 50 years ago probably had a Beethoven 5, whereas people in that time period with Schubert songs, Bach cantatas, Second Viennese School, etc. would have had to hunt to find those items and, they were generally not cheap (generally pretty expensive in inflation adjusted terms).

Anyway, this is today's digitization. Hollywood SQ playing Tchaikovsky and Borodin. The sonics on these Capitol LPs were always quite good (later stereos were stunning in some cases), very little inner groove distortion and they were able to pack in 50+ mins of music with no compression. The Hollywood SQ had a lean, muscular, analytic sound, and they always played with great enthusiasm and energy. They do not have the lush, dark sound I prefer in some SQ repertiore as with the Budapest, Baryilli, Paganini (with Henri Temianka) Curtis SQs for example. But, their recordings are always worth collecting, and their approach I find refreshing, especially in more modern repertoire (their Villa-Lobos is incredible). A very nice LP that had been sitting around neglected for 25+ years on my shelves.

(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Fimg.discogs.com%2FwIQ21BUnGNNd6whFiIU9_NgylUo%3D%2Ffit-in%2F600x603%2Ffilters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)%2Fdiscogs-images%2FR-9912346-1488411358-1521.jpeg.jpg&sp=c6a43fdba8b4eec7eae799da1a3f8500)

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 22, 2019, 01:19:34 AM
Over years of collecting I believe you develop a six sense with regards of condition. Beside the tell-tale signs already mentioned I look for a crease in the front cover which is a sign of repeated removal of LP. If a collector is serious then a RCM is maybe not obligatory, but not far off. I use a Loricraft, which after cleaning I replace the inner sleeve. Never full proof though, a few weeks ago I purchased a pristine copy of  William Wordsworth string quartets on CRD, a label which produced fine clean pressings. On examination under a strong light the vinyl appeared unplayed. Much to my disappointment the music was drowned out by surface noise! Another one will come along, they always do.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 28, 2019, 02:16:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qoKov3N.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 28, 2019, 07:02:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qoKov3N.jpg)

 :laugh:  :)

PD

p.s.  Probably a good thing that I didn't see your cartoon just before I went to a record store on Saturday (see Recent Purchases from that day).
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 28, 2019, 09:16:40 AM
:laugh:  :)

PD

p.s.  Probably a good thing that I didn't see your cartoon just before I went to a record store on Saturday (see Recent Purchases from that day).

PD, I was sent the cartoon by our mutual friend, Lee. :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 28, 2019, 03:05:40 PM
PD, I was sent the cartoon by our mutual friend, Lee. :)
Me thinks Lee was trying to (gently) provoke you!   ;)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 28, 2019, 06:36:28 PM
:laugh:  :)

PD

p.s.  Probably a good thing that I didn't see your cartoon just before I went to a record store on Saturday (see Recent Purchases from that day).

Post 'em here! Don't throw pearls to swine in that other thread...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 28, 2019, 06:38:54 PM
Expense and inconvenience are two things I seem to enjoy. Sometimes I think my Ph.D. is in doing things the hard way (rather than biology). Mechanical watches are another one. Some of these old, exotic movements are like owning an old Italian or English sports car--more time in the shop than on my wrist...
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 29, 2019, 01:10:44 AM
Expense and inconvenience are two things I seem to enjoy. Sometimes I think my Ph.D. is in doing things the hard way (rather than biology). Mechanical watches are another one. Some of these old, exotic movements are like owning an old Italian or English sports car--more time in the shop than on my wrist...

You and me both! The wife is forever telling me "why do you always do things the hard way!"

I inherited two watches. The one I wear daily is circa 1954 which incredibly doesn't play up and keeps good time.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 29, 2019, 01:47:56 AM
Post 'em here! Don't throw pearls to swine in that other thread...  :laugh:

You are right.

Visited my favourite vinyl emporium on Saturday and returned with a stack. As will be evident I am heavily influenced on my purchases by what I read on this forum by posters more knowledgeable then myself.

Elgar/Vaughan Williams: Violin Sonatas. The Menuhins. EMI.
Moeran: Symphony. Dilkes, English Sinfonia. EMI.
Bruci: Simfonia lesta/Maskal. Belgrade/Zegrab Orchestras, Zdravkovic/Horat. Philips.
R-K/Miaskovsky: Symphony 2/21. Chicago SO, Morton Gould. RCA.
Granados: Goyescas/Escenas Poeticas/Libro De Horas. Thomas Rajna CRD. (Double)
Granados: VOL 2 Thomas Rajna. CRD
Granados: VOL 3  ditto
Granados: VOL 4  ditto
Granados: VOL 7  ditto
Dvorak: PC. Kvapil Brno Jilek. Supraphon.
Gluzounov: The Seasons. MRO Khaikin. Melodiya/EMI.
Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage, Second Year. Farnadi. HMV.
Rameau: Works for Harpsichord, George Malcolm. Argo. (Box)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2019, 10:53:17 AM
Post 'em here! Don't throw pearls to swine in that other thread...  :laugh:

Hello Valkyrie,

Here's a copy of the LP portion of my posting under Recent Purchases:

Went with a friend to see my audio guy at the fine audio store where he works today [Nice guy, he helped me to box up and lift my rather heavy amp into his car and drove us to bring my amp in for a bit of work!].  While we were there, I also suggested that we go to a record store nearby (sells used CDs and LPs).  Did some digging around and came back with these classical LPs (and two CDs):

Nicolai Gedda "Berühmte Italienische Arien" on Odeon
A couple of Gérard Souzay LPs (I was excited to run across!) - GS Sings Operatic Arias on Philips - mono though (also available in stereo), so hope that I'll adjust well to the sound.  It and the next one were promotional copies.
GS - A Century of French Stong, Philips, mono
An unopened copy of Eugene Ormandy and Philly playing Sibelius' Symphony No. 2 on Columbia's Odyssey
Beethoven's Rasumovsky Quartet with the Vlach Quartet on Parliament
Igor Stravinsky's Petrouchka with the L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande and Ansermet - London
and a double-LP of Domingo called "Bravissimo, Domingo" of arias and duets on RCA Red Seal

and a few pop albums which I might post elsewhere when I have a moment.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2019, 12:23:06 PM
You and me both! The wife is forever telling me "why do you always do things the hard way!"

I inherited two watches. The one I wear daily is circa 1954 which incredibly doesn't play up and keeps good time.

Mine's in the shop!  Thank you for reminding me.  I should be hearing from them soon.  To be fair, the watch has been quite faithful to me.  I've had it for probably a bit less than 20 years (bought new).  One day, it just stopped working; I figured that it must just need a new battery--nope!  In for, hopefully, a relatively inexpensive overhaul (the jewelers had to send it out to a specialist).

In the meantime, when I feel like I really need to keep track of the time, I wind up my grandfather's old pocket watch!  :-)

By the way, I emailed a screen shot of that comic to 'my guy' at the audio shop.  Hope that he appreciates it!   :-\
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on January 29, 2019, 12:39:16 PM
Mine's in the shop!  Thank you for reminding me.  I should be hearing from them soon.  To be fair, the watch has been quite faithful to me.  I've had it for probably a bit less than 20 years (bought new).  One day, it just stopped working; I figured that it must just need a new battery--nope!  In for, hopefully, a relatively inexpensive overhaul (the jewelers had to send it out to a specialist).

In the meantime, when I feel like I really need to keep track of the time, I wind up my grandfather's old pocket watch!  :-)

By the way, I emailed a screen shot of that comic to 'my guy' at the audio shop.  Hope that he appreciates it!   :-\

I used to wear one, on a chain, in a waistcoat pocket of a three piece suit when I was a young man. It just stopped working on me. I never got it fixed.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 29, 2019, 05:15:02 PM
I used to wear one, on a chain, in a waistcoat pocket of a three piece suit when I was a young man. It just stopped working on me. I never got it fixed.
Oh, sweet!   :) Do you still own it?  And is it worth getting it fixed?  I've tucked mine into my purse (though I do have the original chain).  I doubt if it's worth much, but it's rather special as it does also  have his initials engraved into it and was given to me by my father.  I do also have an inexpensive Timex on which I could have had the battery just replaced, but gravitated towards the family piece instead.

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 30, 2019, 01:08:04 AM
Hello Valkyrie,

Here's a copy of the LP portion of my posting under Recent Purchases:

Went with a friend to see my audio guy at the fine audio store where he works today [Nice guy, he helped me to box up and lift my rather heavy amp into his car and drove us to bring my amp in for a bit of work!].  While we were there, I also suggested that we go to a record store nearby (sells used CDs and LPs).  Did some digging around and came back with these classical LPs (and two CDs):

Nicolai Gedda "Berühmte Italienische Arien" on Odeon
A couple of Gérard Souzay LPs (I was excited to run across!) - GS Sings Operatic Arias on Philips - mono though (also available in stereo), so hope that I'll adjust well to the sound.  It and the next one were promotional copies.
GS - A Century of French Stong, Philips, mono
An unopened copy of Eugene Ormandy and Philly playing Sibelius' Symphony No. 2 on Columbia's Odyssey
Beethoven's Rasumovsky Quartet with the Vlach Quartet on Parliament
Igor Stravinsky's Petrouchka with the L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande and Ansermet - London
and a double-LP of Domingo called "Bravissimo, Domingo" of arias and duets on RCA Red Seal

and a few pop albums which I might post elsewhere when I have a moment.

Which Rasumovsky Quartet, P ?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 30, 2019, 01:21:17 AM


By the way, I emailed a screen shot of that comic to 'my guy' at the audio shop.  Hope that he appreciates it!   :-\

It's going viral! ;D The best cartoons have an element of truth.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 30, 2019, 06:02:00 AM
Which Rasumovsky Quartet, P ?

My goof!  It was No. 7 in F. (Op. 59, No. 1).  I wonder how their recordings of the other two are (guessing that the Vlach Quartet also recorded them?  Or no?).  Do you have any of their Beethoven String Quartet recordings Irons?

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 30, 2019, 06:03:49 AM
It's going viral! ;D The best cartoons have an element of truth.

Haven't heard back from him yet; hopefully he also found it to be amusing!

Any idea where Lee found it?

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 30, 2019, 07:11:28 AM
My goof!  It was No. 7 in F. (Op. 59, No. 1).  I wonder how their recordings of the other two are (guessing that the Vlach Quartet also recorded them?  Or no?).  Do you have any of their Beethoven String Quartet recordings Irons?

PD

I do have that recording, P. The Vlach Quartet are first port of call for the Op.18 set. Josef Vlach made some fine recordings as a conductor.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QM8AAOSwgn5XE98w/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on January 30, 2019, 07:19:12 AM
Haven't heard back from him yet; hopefully he also found it to be amusing!

Any idea where Lee found it?

PD

No I don't. Apparently Alex Gregory is cartoonist for "New Yorker". Recognise the feller on the left?

(https://kenchawkin.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/stages-of-communication-through-technology-by-alex-gregory-tnycartoons.png?w=450)












Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 30, 2019, 08:56:25 AM
No I don't. Apparently Alex Gregory is cartoonist for "New Yorker". Recognise the feller on the left?

(https://kenchawkin.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/stages-of-communication-through-technology-by-alex-gregory-tnycartoons.png?w=450)

No, I don't Irons.

I do love/appreciate many of the cartoons that I've seen in the New Yorker magazine though!  :-)  Are you familiar with this cartoonist's work/style?  I'll bet that you are!   ;)https://condenaststore.com/featured/new-yorker-cover-june-5-1989-ronald-searle.html (https://condenaststore.com/featured/new-yorker-cover-june-5-1989-ronald-searle.html)

PD

p.s.  I'd love to get one of his original cartoons!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on January 30, 2019, 09:07:33 AM
Oh, sweet!   :) Do you still own it?  And is it worth getting it fixed?  I've tucked mine into my purse (though I do have the original chain).  I doubt if it's worth much, but it's rather special as it does also  have his initials engraved into it and was given to me by my father.  I do also have an inexpensive Timex on which I could have had the battery just replaced, but gravitated towards the family piece instead.

Best,

PD

I never gave it away so I do have it somewhere. Like yours it is not worth getting fixed I think as the value is only sentimental.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 31, 2019, 04:33:33 PM
I never gave it away so I do have it somewhere. Like yours it is not worth getting fixed I think as the value is only sentimental.
Sorry, but I think that you confused my postings a bit as my grandfather's watch (the pocket watch) works; it was my wristwatch that needed fixing (they also cleaned it, etc.).  Perhaps you might want to rethink getting it fixed?  Maybe if you brought it to a reputable  repairer they might give you an idea what it might cost to fix it (for a modest sum)?  Wristwatch is back now and fixed I'm pleased to report.

Good luck!

PD

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on January 31, 2019, 07:17:29 PM
Funny, some of us are into mechanical watches too. Speaking of that

I just got my "problem child" 1950s hand-wound Movado back in the mail today after trying this watchmaker near our vacation spot on the CA Central Coast. Seems to be working ok, but after lots of money spent on this watch with various watchmakers (bought for too much money online from a supposedly reputable dealer  >:( ), he told me that it had been screwed around with by innumerable half-assed watchmakers over the years and was in pretty bad shape overall. He serviced it as best he could, but told me not to expect much, and not to wear it as an everyday watch (had no plans to do that anyway). When it dies, we agreed, it's not worth the outlay to fix again. It will sit here in my museum of non-working watches.  :( Sad too, because it is a gorgeous, understated watch. OTOH, I have an old Longines Admiral and Doxa Antimagnetic (gorgeous NOS watch at 39 mm) that are quite trouble free and fairly accurate. In the world of watches, finding an honest, knowledgeable, experienced watchmaker and dealer is EVERYTHING. An old mechanical watch is not a Toyota Corolla, and you will likely have to expend a lot of effort to find someone worthy of servicing it.

Sometime, if you really want to feel like a poor, non-Davos vulture capitalist job creator, try shopping for watches in Berlin or Dresden--cheapest Lange in the window = 50,000 Euros!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 01, 2019, 01:42:34 AM
Funny, some of us are into mechanical watches too. Speaking of that

I just got my "problem child" 1950s hand-wound Movado back in the mail today after trying this watchmaker near our vacation spot on the CA Central Coast. Seems to be working ok, but after lots of money spent on this watch with various watchmakers (bought for too much money online from a supposedly reputable dealer  >:( ), he told me that it had been screwed around with by innumerable half-assed watchmakers over the years and was in pretty bad shape overall. He serviced it as best he could, but told me not to expect much, and not to wear it as an everyday watch (had no plans to do that anyway). When it dies, we agreed, it's not worth the outlay to fix again. It will sit here in my museum of non-working watches.  :( Sad too, because it is a gorgeous, understated watch. OTOH, I have an old Longines Admiral and Doxa Antimagnetic (gorgeous NOS watch at 39 mm) that are quite trouble free and fairly accurate. In the world of watches, finding an honest, knowledgeable, experienced watchmaker and dealer is EVERYTHING. An old mechanical watch is not a Toyota Corolla, and you will likely have to expend a lot of effort to find someone worthy of servicing it.

Sometime, if you really want to feel like a poor, non-Davos vulture capitalist job creator, try shopping for watches in Berlin or Dresden--cheapest Lange in the window = 50,000 Euros!

You are right about servicing being a problem. The watch I wear daily is a Zenith Sporto, the only work done is a new winder as the old one was worn. The other, an Omega Seamaster 600, I thought a good idea to send away for a full service. The watch is now very stiff to wind up - I think it may be a self-winder. The service cost just over £100 which in retrospect a proper service would cost much more then that. I actually think this service a waste of time. I inherited both from my father-in-law when he passed away. I have not a clue what they are worth.
 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 01, 2019, 01:46:44 AM
Back to cartoons. $:)

I can only think of one cartoon style LP cover. But it is a good un -

(https://i.imgur.com/0BPva33.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 01, 2019, 07:59:28 AM
Funny, some of us are into mechanical watches too. Speaking of that

I just got my "problem child" 1950s hand-wound Movado back in the mail today after trying this watchmaker near our vacation spot on the CA Central Coast. Seems to be working ok, but after lots of money spent on this watch with various watchmakers (bought for too much money online from a supposedly reputable dealer  >:( ), he told me that it had been screwed around with by innumerable half-assed watchmakers over the years and was in pretty bad shape overall. He serviced it as best he could, but told me not to expect much, and not to wear it as an everyday watch (had no plans to do that anyway). When it dies, we agreed, it's not worth the outlay to fix again. It will sit here in my museum of non-working watches.  :( Sad too, because it is a gorgeous, understated watch. OTOH, I have an old Longines Admiral and Doxa Antimagnetic (gorgeous NOS watch at 39 mm) that are quite trouble free and fairly accurate. In the world of watches, finding an honest, knowledgeable, experienced watchmaker and dealer is EVERYTHING. An old mechanical watch is not a Toyota Corolla, and you will likely have to expend a lot of effort to find someone worthy of servicing it.

Sometime, if you really want to feel like a poor, non-Davos vulture capitalist job creator, try shopping for watches in Berlin or Dresden--cheapest Lange in the window = 50,000 Euros!

Interesting, mine is a Movado--though much more recent than yours; it's back after a 'cleaning' and a replacement of a 'spring' (so I was told).  After reading your posting, I'm praying that the supposedly 'authorized' watch person was/is good! 

Best wishes (for both you and your collection),

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 01, 2019, 08:02:51 AM
Back to cartoons. $:)

I can only think of one cartoon style LP cover. But it is a good un -

(https://i.imgur.com/0BPva33.jpg)
Some very unhappy looking musicians there Irons!!  :(
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 02, 2019, 12:28:00 AM
Some very unhappy looking musicians there Irons!!  :(

Reiner was not known for spreading joy, P.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 02, 2019, 06:34:33 AM
Reiner was not known for spreading joy, P.
That's my understanding....though I try not to focus nor like to read about things like that...just here to enjoy the music!   ;)

By the way, I spoke to my audio guy and asked what he thought of the cartoon; he hadn't check his email recently!  Alas, he hasn't had a chance yet to look at my amp.   :(  He'll get there eventually.

PD

p.s.  Spent a chunk of time yesterday trying to sort through and also move some LPs...which required temporarily boxing up some books, etc.  What a mess!  I'm hoping that a friend of mine might help me by building some more shelving for me.  Also, need to get rid of some of my books:  too much music and too many books!  Help!   ::)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 02, 2019, 01:36:04 PM
Interesting, mine is a Movado--though much more recent than yours; it's back after a 'cleaning' and a replacement of a 'spring' (so I was told).  After reading your posting, I'm praying that the supposedly 'authorized' watch person was/is good! 

Best wishes (for both you and your collection),

PD

Thanks, same to you. The Movado is actually running quite well although I have not actually worn it yet. My new watchmaker told me that the movement was not Movado's best, and they had the "clever" idea of using some metal clamps (?) where they should have used screws--hence, it was a compromised movement to begin with 15 jewels or not. PM me if you need the details of this watchmaker, I'll send you the info.

Too many books and music--a problem for many of us.  I have recently become tired of always buying new books and music and rushing to listen to them and read them so I can go on to the next thing. I almost feel as I'm overstuffing myself at some all-you-can-eat buffet. I have way too much to listen to, so I've really scaled back my buying. As for books, I've also purposely not bought anything new for a bit--time to go back and explore some old favorites, which I am greatly enjoying. Currently re-reading Colin Thubron's wonderful travel book on Siberia. 

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 04, 2019, 07:48:25 AM
Thanks, same to you. The Movado is actually running quite well although I have not actually worn it yet. My new watchmaker told me that the movement was not Movado's best, and they had the "clever" idea of using some metal clamps (?) where they should have used screws--hence, it was a compromised movement to begin with 15 jewels or not. PM me if you need the details of this watchmaker, I'll send you the info.

Too many books and music--a problem for many of us.  I have recently become tired of always buying new books and music and rushing to listen to them and read them so I can go on to the next thing. I almost feel as I'm overstuffing myself at some all-you-can-eat buffet. I have way too much to listen to, so I've really scaled back my buying. As for books, I've also purposely not bought anything new for a bit--time to go back and explore some old favorites, which I am greatly enjoying. Currently re-reading Colin Thubron's wonderful travel book on Siberia.
Good for you (re consumption)!  One project for this winter--well, two actually--going through books (what to keep, what to donate, and what to sell) and also music!

Watch is working well (knock on wood).   8)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 07, 2019, 01:36:40 AM
HMV lives on!  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/05/doug-putman-vinyl-hmv-sunrise-records
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on February 07, 2019, 02:04:34 AM
HMV lives on!  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/05/doug-putman-vinyl-hmv-sunrise-records

I don't want any business to go bust but the loss of HMV wouldn't affect me at all, it ceased to be a serious seller of classical music years ago. Good luck to Mr Putnam in his efforts.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 07, 2019, 05:31:53 AM
Yesterday, I cleaned off and played an old Stephen Bishop album that someone had given me.  It was of Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto with Colin Davis and the BBCSO on Philips.  I enjoyed the performance but was surprised at how bad the recording was!  It was from I believe 1972?  Looking at the LP jacket, I noticed that it was manufactured by Columbia House (and New York address).  Did some further digging, and it seems that Columbia had a record club and did pressings at a number of different plants.  This didn't say anything about it being a CRC recording, but I'm guessing that this was the case?

Wondering whether anyone here is familiar with this recording and if so, how do you find it to be?  Also, whether or not anyone has heard either the British pressing or the Dutch ones.  Sadly, I found the sound stage to feel quite distant and rather lacking in focus.  It also was faintly crackly/hissy -- that might have been more due to my cleaning efforts (on a RCM) but I did rinse it well with that fancy 'pure' water. 

This is an image of the Dutch pressing (mine looks the same.  Only difference that I can tell is on the back at the bottom as to who manufactured mine).  (https://img.discogs.com/iA9e2WsvWicQS6jT8KYvzekhzJc=/fit-in/600x616/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6079298-1410525146-9465.jpeg.jpg)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on February 07, 2019, 06:53:58 AM
Yesterday, I cleaned off and played an old Stephen Bishop album that someone had given me.  It was of Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto with Colin Davis and the BBCSO on Philips.  I enjoyed the performance but was surprised at how bad the recording was!  It was from I believe 1972?  Looking at the LP jacket, I noticed that it was manufactured by Columbia House (and New York address).  Did some further digging, and it seems that Columbia had a record club and did pressings at a number of different plants.  This didn't say anything about it being a CRC recording, but I'm guessing that this was the case?

Wondering whether anyone here is familiar with this recording and if so, how do you find it to be?  Also, whether or not anyone has heard either the British pressing or the Dutch ones.  Sadly, I found the sound stage to feel quite distant and rather lacking in focus.  It also was faintly crackly/hissy -- that might have been more due to my cleaning efforts (on a RCM) but I did rinse it well with that fancy 'pure' water. 

This is an image of the Dutch pressing (mine looks the same.  Only difference that I can tell is on the back at the bottom as to who manufactured mine).  (https://img.discogs.com/iA9e2WsvWicQS6jT8KYvzekhzJc=/fit-in/600x616/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6079298-1410525146-9465.jpeg.jpg)

PD

I have this disc as part of a box set of the piano concertos; it was manufactured in Holland by Philips. It sounds fine to me though typical of its time. The piano is rather forward but well-recorded. The orchestra does sound slightly recessed when playing tuttis but I wouldn't describe it as distant. The slow movement where the piano predominates sounds the best. I can't detect any hiss but that is probably down to my ageing ears.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 07, 2019, 07:10:38 AM
I have this disc as part of a box set of the piano concertos; it was manufactured in Holland by Philips. It sounds fine to me though typical of its time. The piano is rather forward but well-recorded. The orchestra does sound slightly recessed when playing tuttis but I wouldn't describe it as distant. The slow movement where the piano predominates sounds the best. I can't detect any hiss but that is probably down to my ageing ears.
Hi Biffo,

Thank you for taking the time to give it a listen and sharing your thoughts with me.  I agree with you about the piano being recorded well.  To me, it (the orchestra) sounded...how to describe it rather homogenized than being able to hear distinct sections or instruments and being able to pinpoint them space-wise?  Whereas today I had a totally different experience; I cleaned off and played Tchaikovsky's Pathétique Symphony with Reiner and the CSO on a RCA Living Stereo album.  I probably should give it another run through before I send it off to a charity shop (currently, it's residing in that pile).  Perhaps the CD transfer is much better in this case?

Am curious here as to whether anyone else here has heard/had experience with the Columbia House pressings and how they find them to be.

Thank you again,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 07, 2019, 08:17:12 AM
Yesterday, I cleaned off and played an old Stephen Bishop album that someone had given me.  It was of Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto with Colin Davis and the BBCSO on Philips.  I enjoyed the performance but was surprised at how bad the recording was!  It was from I believe 1972?  Looking at the LP jacket, I noticed that it was manufactured by Columbia House (and New York address).  Did some further digging, and it seems that Columbia had a record club and did pressings at a number of different plants.  This didn't say anything about it being a CRC recording, but I'm guessing that this was the case?

Wondering whether anyone here is familiar with this recording and if so, how do you find it to be?  Also, whether or not anyone has heard either the British pressing or the Dutch ones.  Sadly, I found the sound stage to feel quite distant and rather lacking in focus.  It also was faintly crackly/hissy -- that might have been more due to my cleaning efforts (on a RCM) but I did rinse it well with that fancy 'pure' water. 

This is an image of the Dutch pressing (mine looks the same.  Only difference that I can tell is on the back at the bottom as to who manufactured mine).  (https://img.discogs.com/iA9e2WsvWicQS6jT8KYvzekhzJc=/fit-in/600x616/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6079298-1410525146-9465.jpeg.jpg)

PD

Interesting, P. In a way you have perfectly described the house sound of Philips. A label (this is a vinyl thread) brilliant for chamber music with Haydn piano trios, Beethoven quartets and lots more they are the absolute best. For larger forces, I think the best way to describe Philips is conservative. Which is not bad in itself, but you are not going to hear the impact of Mercury and RCA or the realism of Decca. UK and Dutch Philips pressings do sound different, so I guess CBS will too, but I think it is more likely the recording you are not warming to.
I do not own that particular record, but have Bishop/Davis on Philips with Mozart PC K.467 & K.503. I will give it a spin tonight and report back.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on February 07, 2019, 08:26:31 AM
Interesting, P. In a way you have perfectly described the house sound of Philips. A label (this is a vinyl thread) brilliant for chamber music with Haydn piano trios, Beethoven quartets and lots more they are the absolute best. For larger forces, I think the best way to describe Philips is conservative. Which is not bad in itself, but you are not going to hear the impact of Mercury and RCA or the realism of Decca. UK and Dutch Philips pressings do sound different, so I guess CBS will too, but I think it is more likely the recording you are not warming to.
I do not own that particular record, but have Bishop/Davis on Philips with Mozart PC K.467 & K.503. I will give it a spin tonight and report back.

That is one of my all-time favourite Mozart records, I still have the LP. I look forward to hearing what you think of it.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 07, 2019, 08:32:26 AM
I do not own that particular record, but have Bishop/Davis on Philips with Mozart PC K.467 & K.503. I will give it a spin tonight and report back.

That was literally the third classical LP that I ever purchased. I still consider it one of the finest recordings I have owned (I have it on CD now, which doesn't seem to have the same silky smoothness as my memory of the LP.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 07, 2019, 08:39:24 AM
Thanks Irons.

Speaking of Decca, I cleaned and put on an Ansermet recording of Debussy and Ravel (Nocturnes and Rapsodie Espagnole)...sublime!  One sad thing, and I don't know whether or not you can comment on this from afar, but after cleaning, I did notice a small gouge on the Debussy side.  I went ahead and played it, I could hear a slight thud(?) for about 8 times as the needle went over it.  It didn't make a REALLY loud sound, but it certainly was quite noticeable.  Wondering how much damage this does to a needle?  The performances are so lovely and the sound is great (record made in England)...would love to find another copy of it.  Currently enjoying the R.E. on the flip side.   :)

Speaking of Philips, some time ago, I remember someone mentioning about how the Dutch ended up restricting the dynamics when they did pressings (as compared to the British ones).  Have you (or anyone else here) noticed that?  It does seem that way to me...though I don't believe that I've heard any British pressings of Philips.

PD

p.s.  Will look to see if I perhaps have that Mozart/Bishop one (doubt it, but you never know!).
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 07, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
Thanks Irons.

Speaking of Decca, I cleaned and put on an Ansermet recording of Debussy and Ravel (Nocturnes and Rapsodie Espagnole)...sublime!  One sad thing, and I don't know whether or not you can comment on this from afar, but after cleaning, I did notice a small gouge on the Debussy side.  I went ahead and played it, I could hear a slight thud(?) for about 8 times as the needle went over it.  It didn't make a REALLY loud sound, but it certainly was quite noticeable.  Wondering how much damage this does to a needle?  The performances are so lovely and the sound is great (record made in England)...would love to find another copy of it.  Currently enjoying the R.E. on the flip side.   :)


Speaking of Philips, some time ago, I remember someone mentioning about how the Dutch ended up restricting the dynamics when they did pressings (as compared to the British ones).  Have you (or anyone else here) noticed that?  It does seem that way to me...though I don't believe that I've heard any British pressings of Philips.

PD

p.s.  Will look to see if I perhaps have that Mozart/Bishop one (doubt it, but you never know!).

P, have you examined the "gouge" under a strong light? The reason I ask is the noise you describe, a repeated thud, is often a piece of crud affixed to the grooves. Under a spot-light I carefully work on the blob with a finger nail until removal. This happens quite a lot, in fact only last week. If you do it carefully no harm comes to the record itself.

Ansermet is my favourite conductor in this music. The earlier mono Nocturnes is outstanding too.

UK pressings are as you say more dynamic but Dutch are CD quite. I worry less now regarding pressings.
 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 07, 2019, 01:19:25 PM
P, have you examined the "gouge" under a strong light? The reason I ask is the noise you describe, a repeated thud, is often a piece of crud affixed to the grooves. Under a spot-light I carefully work on the blob with a finger nail until removal. This happens quite a lot, in fact only last week. If you do it carefully no harm comes to the record itself.

Ansermet is my favourite conductor in this music. The earlier mono Nocturnes is outstanding too.

UK pressings are as you say more dynamic but Dutch are CD quite. I worry less now regarding pressings.

Irons,

No, it's definitely not any sort of crud alas.  The depression is about (off the top of my head) 1/4 to a 1/3 of an inch wide?  I'll try and take a picture for you later.  This afternoon, I was doing several hours of crawling around on the ground and digging through boxes trying to organize (and move) my LPs (and get rid of some too)...hard getting up after that!   ::)  I did find some to toss and some to donate...trying to get more rigorous in examine those that I gave into purchasing in a moment of weakness that really have seen better days.  Some of them I'll clean first and give them a go on the record player and decide from there.  Almost done going through some that were giving to me--found some that had water damage and were moldy (Bye, bye!)....a set of Beethoven symphonies by a conductor that I already own (donate), etc.  One nice thing (potentially deadly), a friend came up with an idea for shelving and offered to build me some if I wanted!   8) ??? :-\  What to do?! 

The Nocturnes that I listened to were in mono (but still sounded SOOO good!).

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 08, 2019, 02:02:01 AM


The Nocturnes that I listened to were in mono (but still sounded SOOO good!).


I can say it now. ;) Ansermet was in his prime when your Nocturnes was recorded. I much prefer the performance to his later stereo remake. When Decca rereleased the mono Nocturnes on Ace of Clubs they paired it with La Mer.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 08, 2019, 02:29:36 AM
That is one of my all-time favourite Mozart records, I still have the LP. I look forward to hearing what you think of it.

Not bad is it. ;D Definitely no problems of balance on this recording. The slightly soft-focused Philips orchestral sound in this case works to the music's advantage (lost in digital transfer?). Nothing soft-focused in the piano sound, the engineers did a magnificent job. Stephen Bishop's playing is stunning, the "Elvira Madigan" movement is one of those rare moments listening to recorded music where time seems to stop still. 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on February 08, 2019, 02:43:30 AM
Not bad is it. ;D Defiantly no problems of balance on this recording. The slightly soft-focused Philips orchestral sound in this case works to the music's advantage (lost in digital transfer?). Nothing soft-focused in the piano sound, the engineers did a magnificent job. Stephen Bishop's playing is stunning, the "Elvira Madigan" movement is one of those rare moments listening to recorded music where time seems to stop still.

Glad you enjoyed it. K503 is probably my favourite Mozart Piano Concerto though I love K467 as well (for me, free of any filmic associations).
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 08, 2019, 02:50:14 PM
Not bad is it. ;D Definitely no problems of balance on this recording. The slightly soft-focused Philips orchestral sound in this case works to the music's advantage (lost in digital transfer?). Nothing soft-focused in the piano sound, the engineers did a magnificent job. Stephen Bishop's playing is stunning, the "Elvira Madigan" movement is one of those rare moments listening to recorded music where time seems to stop still.
Will keep an eye out for it..but on Philips proper.  Not certain what you mean about 'lost in digital transfer'?.  The one that I had was recorded in either 1972 or '74?  Or were you referring to the Mozart recordings?  If so, when were they recorded?  I did (as I mentioned earlier) enjoy the performance on my Columbia album.  Took a close look at it again and saw more damage than I had first noticed.  In any event, I'd like to get a copy of that SBK album but on Philips.  'Soft-focused' is probably a nice way to describe the orchestral-part of the miking/recording/mixing/engineering.   :)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 09, 2019, 03:45:34 PM
Some new LP finds today (see New Purchases thread if you're interested).

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 10, 2019, 02:11:13 AM
That was literally the third classical LP that I ever purchased. I still consider it one of the finest recordings I have owned (I have it on CD now, which doesn't seem to have the same silky smoothness as my memory of the LP.

PD. I was addressing the above with "lost in digital transfer".
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 10, 2019, 03:49:50 AM
Some new LP finds today (see New Purchases thread if you're interested).

Best,

PD

You are on a roll!

Tatrai are self recommendable. They recorded all Haydn Quartets. Op. 77 No.1 is one of my favourites.

I do not own that one but collect all Marriner's Argo recordings when I find them.

Do own the Decca Curzon Beethoven/Schubert. Which is a bit of a "collectable". ;)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 10, 2019, 05:31:19 AM

PD. I was addressing the above with "lost in digital transfer".
Ah, thanks for the clarification! :-)

P
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 10, 2019, 05:41:37 AM
You are on a roll!

Tatrai are self recommendable. They recorded all Haydn Quartets. Op. 77 No.1 is one of my favourites.

I do not own that one but collect all Marriner's Argo recordings when I find them.

Do own the Decca Curzon Beethoven/Schubert. Which is a bit of a "collectable". ;)
;D  I do have a bunch of their Haydn recordings on CD which I enjoy, but I didn't have that one so am looking forward to listening to it.

You mean that I actually managed to find an Argo LP that *The Great Irons doesn't own?!

*meant with affection and great admiration of course.

The friend that I went with yesterday to do a few errands (and also have some fun poking around in the stores/shops) wants to go to yet ANOTHER one today!  Help!!! ;)  I might pass though as I have a bunch of things which I would like to do today.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 10, 2019, 08:15:32 AM
Talking of Argo, I have been after this recording for some time.

(https://img.discogs.com/g8S4756tPnqeRqRDPYAW7QXlmho=/fit-in/549x551/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7014144-1431701249-4736.jpeg.jpg)

A copy purchased through eBay is on its way. A second try, the first (not eBay) an excessive noisy copy. I did expect to pay more which although listed as "near mint" I am worried that this is too good to be true. An "oval" Argo label so fairly old. I have used the seller before a few times and he let me down once with a poor copy not described as such. Very much fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 11, 2019, 05:13:07 AM
Talking of Argo, I have been after this recording for some time.

(https://img.discogs.com/g8S4756tPnqeRqRDPYAW7QXlmho=/fit-in/549x551/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7014144-1431701249-4736.jpeg.jpg)

A copy purchased through eBay is on its way. A second try, the first (not eBay) an excessive noisy copy. I did expect to pay more which although listed as "near mint" I am worried that this is too good to be true. An "oval" Argo label so fairly old. I have used the seller before a few times and he let me down once with a poor copy not described as such. Very much fingers crossed.
Let us know how it comes out Irons.  By the way, do you happen to know whether or not the seller listens to any of the recordings (or samples) first?  Or just by eyesight?  Good luck! :)

By the way, I did succumb to the (short) road trip with my friend.  Turns out the store was closed!  Just as well....another day.  I did play the Debussy side for him (of that Ansermet album mentioned earlier); he enjoyed it!

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 11, 2019, 08:25:49 AM


By the way, I did succumb to the (short) road trip with my friend.  Turns out the store was closed!  Just as well....another day.  I did play the Debussy side for him (of that Ansermet album mentioned earlier); he enjoyed it!


A fine recording. I like the cover of the reissue which makes me feel nostalgic. The cover of Boult's stereo "Wand of Youth" on EMI has the same effect.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/134/30850710873_c2104c1a7c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 12, 2019, 03:22:30 PM
A fine recording. I like the cover of the reissue which makes me feel nostalgic. The cover of Boult's stereo "Wand of Youth" on EMI has the same effect.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/134/30850710873_c2104c1a7c_b.jpg)
Nice photo!  :-)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 13, 2019, 10:50:26 PM
[CAUTION: Non-classical content]

Locally, found a Frank Sinatra (Where are You?) Capitol, late 50s, stereo. Capitol stereos (And monos for that matter) from this era sounded incredible! Some very nice songs here, but not his famous stuff (which I already have). I'm not a Sinatra fanatic, but I do greatly appreciate his artistry. I was not specifically looking for his records, but something in good condition of his from this era has a ton of warmth and character. Speaking of warmth and character... 

Also found a 10" George Shearing (When Lights Are Low) MGM, early 50s. Cute as hell.

I need to find another one or two classical pieces before I take my next batch of LPs up to my audio dealer for cleaning. I have been perusing eBay, but am not really all that fired up about anything. May buy a Ginette Doyen playing Chabrier, or possibly Faure sonatas with Jean Fournier. Soviet-era Melodiyas of Sofronitsky and Gilels are also tempting...
 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 14, 2019, 05:09:15 AM
[CAUTION: Non-classical content]

Locally, found a Frank Sinatra (Where are You?) Capitol, late 50s, stereo. Capitol stereos (And monos for that matter) from this era sounded incredible! Some very nice songs here, but not his famous stuff (which I already have). I'm not a Sinatra fanatic, but I do greatly appreciate his artistry. I was not specifically looking for his records, but something in good condition of his from this era has a ton of warmth and character. Speaking of warmth and character... 

Also found a 10" George Shearing (When Lights Are Low) MGM, early 50s. Cute as hell.

I need to find another one or two classical pieces before I take my next batch of LPs up to my audio dealer for cleaning. I have been perusing eBay, but am not really all that fired up about anything. May buy a Ginette Doyen playing Chabrier, or possibly Faure sonatas with Jean Fournier. Soviet-era Melodiyas of Sofronitsky and Gilels are also tempting...

Congrats!   :)  A few years back, I had found an old Sinatra LP...wonderful singing...sound, but alas, it was too damaged so I ended up throwing it out--sadly.   :'(

Re:  cleaning...good for you!  Alas, I'm stuck with doing the dirty work myself (use an Okki Nokki).

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 14, 2019, 07:48:53 AM
More of a Dean Martin man myself. Hic.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 14, 2019, 01:14:16 PM
Congrats!   :)  A few years back, I had found an old Sinatra LP...wonderful singing...sound, but alas, it was too damaged so I ended up throwing it out--sadly.   :'(

Re:  cleaning...good for you!  Alas, I'm stuck with doing the dirty work myself (use an Okki Nokki).

Best,

PD

Hi,

The greatest Sinatra ever IMO is the one on Reprise with Antonio Carlos Jobim. Be sure to get the stereo. The record is not rare, and you should be able to get a near mint copy for $10 or so.

(https://img.discogs.com/P9HHE_tSpjRzybf4LV-cFeNFbqE=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2768209-1391825081-8732.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 14, 2019, 01:18:42 PM
More of a Dean Martin man myself. Hic.

Haven't listened to much Dean Martin, but I think Tony Bennett is at least as great as Sinatra. I recently digitized one of his LPs with Bill Evans, and I think some of these songs and his interpretations transcend pop and jazz idiom to rise to the level of high art.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 14, 2019, 02:45:33 PM
Hi,

The greatest Sinatra ever IMO is the one on Reprise with Antonio Carlos Jobim. Be sure to get the stereo. The record is not rare, and you should be able to get a near mint copy for $10 or so.

(https://img.discogs.com/P9HHE_tSpjRzybf4LV-cFeNFbqE=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2768209-1391825081-8732.jpeg.jpg)
Thank you for the suggestion and the accompanying photo; I'll keep an eye out for it.  Speaking of Tony Bennett, I ran across a double-CD of his recordings at a charity shop (in fine shape) for $1.99.  Looking forward to listening to it.

You gents might appreciate this:  some time ago, I ran across a 10" LP of Benny Goodman and Rosemary Clooney which I cleaned and was in fairly decent shape considering everything.  Fun to listen to.  It's this one:  (https://img.discogs.com/P-RMcuZWYIVkieZwbGeTuCZwE9U=/fit-in/360x360/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5374092-1391802203-7119.jpeg.jpg)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 14, 2019, 04:14:50 PM
A question for all of you vinyl lovers:  Today, I cleaned and played an old Columbia Entré record with Aleco Galliera conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra in Debussy's La Mer, Faune, and Ravel's Intro and Allegro for Harp.  I'm sure looking at who all is playing on this LP that surely it must have been recorded in the UK?  Haven't been able to find a listing though.  I would have thought that Columbia must have licensed the rights from someone?  Is it from a combo of albums too?  Was disappointed that the LP was too damaged--for me anyway.   :(

Anyone know here the story behind it?  Here's an image of the one that I have (and which will be leaving my possession):  (https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEBUSSY-LA-MER-PRELUDE-RAVEL-ALCEO-GALLIERA-INTRO-ALLEGRO-FOR-HARP-ENTRE-RL3055/292761565915?hash=item4429f2fadb:g:fvMAAOSw61dbrpfo:rk:1:pf:0)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 14, 2019, 04:28:01 PM
A question for all of you vinyl lovers:  Today, I cleaned and played an old Columbia Entré record with Aleco Galliera conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra in Debussy's La Mer, Faune, and Ravel's Intro and Allegro for Harp.  I'm sure looking at who all is playing on this LP that surely it must have been recorded in the UK?  Haven't been able to find a listing though.  I would have thought that Columbia must have licensed the rights from someone?  Is it from a combo of albums too?  Was disappointed that the LP was too damaged--for me anyway.   :(

Anyone know here the story behind it?  Here's an image of the one that I have (and which will be leaving my possession):  (https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEBUSSY-LA-MER-PRELUDE-RAVEL-ALCEO-GALLIERA-INTRO-ALLEGRO-FOR-HARP-ENTRE-RL3055/292761565915?hash=item4429f2fadb:g:fvMAAOSw61dbrpfo:rk:1:pf:0)

Best,

PD

EMI released records in the UK under the name Columbia until the early 70's. (They couldn't use that name in the US because the Columbia trademark was owned by another label in the US at the time.) The parallel U.S. release (if there was one) would have been manufactured in the UK and branded Angel.

Is it mono? Galliera recorded some of the program which was originally release on a 78 rpm shellac disc.

https://www.discogs.com/The-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Alceo-Galliera-Prelude-A-Lapres-Midi-Dun-Faune/release/10312369
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 14, 2019, 10:03:54 PM
Thank you for the suggestion and the accompanying photo; I'll keep an eye out for it.  Speaking of Tony Bennett, I ran across a double-CD of his recordings at a charity shop (in fine shape) for $1.99.  Looking forward to listening to it.

You gents might appreciate this:  some time ago, I ran across a 10" LP of Benny Goodman and Rosemary Clooney which I cleaned and was in fairly decent shape considering everything.  Fun to listen to.  It's this one:  (https://img.discogs.com/P-RMcuZWYIVkieZwbGeTuCZwE9U=/fit-in/360x360/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5374092-1391802203-7119.jpeg.jpg)

PD

An interesting find. Thanks for sharing. The 10" format did not seem to last for long--late 40s-mid 50s. Interestingly, due to nostalgia (or something), I see many new LPs on the 10" format...

If you like jazz and vinyl, you must, must, must get this two LP set...Heaven.

(https://img.discogs.com/1x09IMZAT36jKNly7vkAL5-0MKw=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7872093-1460987772-1345.jpeg.jpg)

https://www.discogs.com/Chet-Baker-Bill-Evans-The-Complete-Recordings/release/7872093

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 15, 2019, 01:21:40 AM
EMI released records in the UK under the name Columbia until the early 70's. (They couldn't use that name in the US because the Columbia trademark was owned by another label in the US at the time.) The parallel U.S. release (if there was one) would have been manufactured in the UK and branded Angel.

Is it mono? Galliera recorded some of the program which was originally release on a 78 rpm shellac disc.

https://www.discogs.com/The-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Alceo-Galliera-Prelude-A-Lapres-Midi-Dun-Faune/release/10312369

For Debussy you are correct Faune (1947) and Le Mer (1950) were both recorded by American Columbia and released on 78s. Subsequently on LP RL 3055.
Ravel starts to get complicated as this was recorded by UK Columbia which is a different company. This recording in the Kingsway Hall - It is my guess that the Debussy recordings took place there too - in 1957. Recorded in both mono and stereo (33CX 1663 & SAX 2303). Later released with other works by Classics for Pleasure. I have the CFP LP on my shelves and it is excellent.

(https://img.discogs.com/HlryPCsFWbTlCoC1w4FoDCk45cQ=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8866330-1471073985-8760.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 15, 2019, 11:51:22 AM
For Debussy you are correct Faune (1947) and Le Mer (1950) were both recorded by American Columbia and released on 78s. Subsequently on LP RL 3055.
Ravel starts to get complicated as this was recorded by UK Columbia which is a different company. This recording in the Kingsway Hall - It is my guess that the Debussy recordings took place there too - in 1957. Recorded in both mono and stereo (33CX 1663 & SAX 2303). Later released with other works by Classics for Pleasure. I have the CFP LP on my shelves and it is excellent.

I think it is the other way around. The Columba 78 was labeled "Made in England" and the Philharmonia was British Columbia's house orchestra.

For instance here is the same recording issued in England as "Columbia" and in the U.S. as "Seraphim." I got it in the "Complete EMI recordings" box. EMI was formed by a merger of several US and UK companies in the 1930's, but didn't start putting the EMI trademark on record labels until 1973.

(https://img.discogs.com/O6LMa03fBd5PxfzraMBpogHgT6c=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-3544440-1334662672.jpeg.jpg)

(https://img.discogs.com/YtHjA4nmxZs9jw2S5jBsvtYLEto=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-9147717-1475604218-1619.jpeg.jpg)

It is all very confusing, EMI, DGG, American Columbia, RCA Victor all are to some extent the same company that kept getting split up, merging, buying itself, splitting again, etc. Every time this comes up I go down the same rabbit hole of Wikipedia pages.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 15, 2019, 01:55:34 PM
I think it is the other way around. The Columba 78 was labeled "Made in England" and the Philharmonia was British Columbia's house orchestra.

For instance here is the same recording issued in England as "Columbia" and in the U.S. as "Seraphim." I got it in the "Complete EMI recordings" box. EMI was formed by a merger of several US and UK companies in the 1930's, but didn't start putting the EMI trademark on record labels until 1973.


It is all very confusing, EMI, DGG, American Columbia, RCA Victor all are to some extent the same company that kept getting split up, merging, buying itself, splitting again, etc. Every time this comes up I go down the same rabbit hole of Wikipedia pages.

You could very well be right, directly after posting I had doubts. I was basing the first part on John Hunt's discography "Makers of the Philharmonia". He lists Faune as follows: February 1947= 78: Columbia DX 1381. LP: Columbia (USA) RL 3055.
Le Mer: October 1950= 78: Columbia DX 1726-1728/ DX 8369-8371. LP: Columbia (USA) RL 3055.

It is most unusual that Hunt hasn't listed a UK release in what is essentially a British discography. I think you are right though. I do have a comprehensive British Columbia discography, the only drawback is many Galliera entry's without index. If I have a spare hour or two ??? I will see if I can find a UK release for the two Debussy works. This reference is more comprehensive then the Philharmonia book.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 15, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
You could very well be right, directly after posting I had doubts. I was basing the first part on John Hunt's discography "Makers of the Philharmonia". He lists Faune as follows: February 1947= 78: Columbia DX 1381. LP: Columbia (USA) RL 3055.
Le Mer: October 1950= 78: Columbia DX 1726-1728/ DX 8369-8371. LP: Columbia (USA) RL 3055.

It is most unusual that Hunt hasn't listed a UK release in what is essentially a British discography. I think you are right though. I do have a comprehensive British Columbia discography, the only drawback is many Galliera entry's without index. If I have a spare hour or two ??? I will see if I can find a UK release for the two Debussy works. This reference is more comprehensive then the Philharmonia book.

The 78 rpm disc (DX 1381) is a UK release and evidently the original.

(https://img.discogs.com/DdIKA0l4c7MN2dN_-vie7scuTuA=/fit-in/600x612/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10312369-1495132491-2490.jpeg.jpg)

It is marked "Made in England" and branded "The Columbia Gramophone Company."

The LP RL 3055 is "Columbia Records," i.e. US Columbia and is recognizable from the photo as a US pressing.

My suspicion is that for a new release a UK Columbia recording would have been cross-released in the US as Angel or Seraphim, but that the "Columbia Entre" LP you had was part of some sort of cross-licensing deal for old recordings, probably at budget price. Who knows really? I have not found anything on the web that would say what the "Entre" series from US Columbia was.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 16, 2019, 01:36:52 AM
The 78 rpm disc (DX 1381) is a UK release and evidently the original.

(https://img.discogs.com/DdIKA0l4c7MN2dN_-vie7scuTuA=/fit-in/600x612/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10312369-1495132491-2490.jpeg.jpg)

It is marked "Made in England" and branded "The Columbia Gramophone Company."

The LP RL 3055 is "Columbia Records," i.e. US Columbia and is recognizable from the photo as a US pressing.

My suspicion is that for a new release a UK Columbia recording would have been cross-released in the US as Angel or Seraphim, but that the "Columbia Entre" LP you had was part of some sort of cross-licensing deal for old recordings, probably at budget price. Who knows really? I have not found anything on the web that would say what the "Entre" series from US Columbia was.

I did see the link you posted. It was what made me think that you are right. That as to yet I have not found a UK release puzzles me.
I should have made clear my reference only deals with Columbia 33CX LP issues. This is one of those "what comes first the chicken or egg" puzzles. If UK Columbia recorded the pieces then I'm sure they would be released in the UK. I will send a message to PD to ask for the issue number of her LP. That may help.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 16, 2019, 06:17:05 AM
Since the death of Harry Pearson the TAS list does not hold quite the sway it used to. It is interesting and in some cases surprising of some of the recordings that receive that particular honour. Kudos to TAS for looking far and wide, and not just the obvious.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2018-tas-super-lp-list/
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 16, 2019, 07:15:23 AM
Amazing how obscure and tangled the relationships of the record labels are, even in the age of googling.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 16, 2019, 07:38:42 PM
In response to the queries and responses (thanks to all!), The Columbia Entré LP is RL 3055 and is mono and says "Made in USA" on it (the LP label itself).  The matrix numbers are:  CXLP 12738-1B for La Mer and CXLP 12739-1C for Debussy's Faune and Ravel's Intro and Allegro for Harp.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 17, 2019, 01:55:09 AM
In response to the queries and responses (thanks to all!), The Columbia Entré LP is RL 3055 and is mono and says "Made in USA" on it (the LP label itself).  The matrix numbers are:  CXLP 12738-1B for La Mer and CXLP 12739-1C for Debussy's Faune and Ravel's Intro and Allegro for Harp.

PD

Many thanks, P. Senior moment on my part - not sure how I mixed Ravel's Daphnis with Intro and Allegro. :o

https://www.popsike.com/pix/20120127/120850823708.jpg

Not bad, $41! Jean Pougnet is a brilliant violinist. He made quite a few recordings for Westminster.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 17, 2019, 03:54:29 AM
Many thanks, P. Senior moment on my part - not sure how I mixed Ravel's Daphnis with Intro and Allegro. :o

https://www.popsike.com/pix/20120127/120850823708.jpg

Not bad, $41! Jean Pougnet is a brilliant violinist. He made quite a few recordings for Westminster.

I think that you might have missed (or forgotten) the part in which I had said that it was too damaged for me and that I was sending it bye bye so to speak?  :( Can't remember where I posted it....think that I did anyway?? Early morning here.  Would love to find a good copy of it...someday. 

I do remember you mentioning Pougnet before though, so was pleased when I saw his name on there.  Forgive me for asking this, but did anyone do a decent transfer to CD of it?  Just in case another copy never comes my way!

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 17, 2019, 05:36:11 PM
Many thanks, P. Senior moment on my part - not sure how I mixed Ravel's Daphnis with Intro and Allegro. :o

https://www.popsike.com/pix/20120127/120850823708.jpg

Not bad, $41! Jean Pougnet is a brilliant violinist. He made quite a few recordings for Westminster.

I love the old red-label Westminsters from the early 50s. Any thoughts on Jean Fournier--brother of Pierre, husband of Ginette Doyen?? I am looking at acquiring some of the J. Fournier-Doyen recordings-Faure and Handel Sonatas...on LP of course!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 18, 2019, 01:28:03 AM
I love the old red-label Westminsters from the early 50s. Any thoughts on Jean Fournier--brother of Pierre, husband of Ginette Doyen?? I am looking at acquiring some of the J. Fournier-Doyen recordings-Faure and Handel Sonatas...on LP of course!

Doyen is difficult to find and expensive. The French piano school, of which Ginette Doyen a leading light, is highly collectable on LP. I like the series of Westminster recordings released on licence by EMI. They replicate the Westminster covers, see image below, and I note the Fournier/Doyen Fauré record shares the same style cover. I think this is where I would look.

(https://i.imgur.com/s9aUPm9.jpg)

Another French pianist, Jacqueline Eymar, is also legendary . She recorded Fauré chamber music in three volumes released in the UK by Turnabout. They are plentiful and inexpensive. A bargain!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 18, 2019, 05:31:57 AM
Doyen is difficult to find and expensive. The French piano school, of which Ginette Doyen a leading light, is highly collectable on LP. I like the series of Westminster recordings released on licence by EMI. They replicate the Westminster covers, see image below, and I note the Fournier/Doyen Fauré record shares the same style cover. I think this is where I would look.

(https://i.imgur.com/s9aUPm9.jpg)

Another French pianist, Jacqueline Eymar, is also legendary . She recorded Fauré chamber music in three volumes released in the UK by Turnabout. They are plentiful and inexpensive. A bargain!

You're a fountain of knowledge Irons!   :)  Was Eymar also released on Westminster?  I'll certainly keep an extra eye out for them; I have been anyway for that label...alas, normally they aren't in very good condition. 

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 18, 2019, 08:24:37 AM
You're a fountain of knowledge Irons!   :)  Was Eymar also released on Westminster?  I'll certainly keep an extra eye out for them; I have been anyway for that label...alas, normally they aren't in very good condition. 

PD

Think Vox, P. Possibly a box set. If you happen to..... do not hesitate!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 19, 2019, 01:00:49 AM

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/312243097844-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

On a visit to a charity shop yesterday came across Janacek's Sinfonietta. I had no idea Szell had recorded the work. After a clean and brush-up, gave it a spin. The opening brass fanfare did not bode well, I found it slow and laborious with little sense of excitement . After a silent gap - every recording I have heard has the various sections joined up creating a continues whole. Szell treats sections as movements, which I found okay but a bit odd. As the main body of the work began, to say I was impressed with the precision of the Cleveland Orchestra is an understatement. They turn on a sixpence and back again with ease. By the time of the coda they were in the groove and the fanfare was far better executed then the opening. Not perfect, a couple of quibbles with a dull opening, and to borrow a phrase from London Underground "mind the gap". The recording in typical CBS fashion has a wide stereo spread and lacks depth but this approach suits the music. All that fades into insignificance with George Szell and his Cleveland Orchestra who are superb.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on February 19, 2019, 01:30:28 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/312243097844-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

On a visit to a charity shop yesterday came across Janacek's Sinfonietta. I had no idea Szell had recorded the work. After a clean and brush-up, gave it a spin. The opening brass fanfare did not bode well, I found it slow and laborious with little sense of excitement . After a silent gap - every recording I have heard has the various sections joined up creating a continues whole. Szell treats sections as movements, which I found okay but a bit odd. As the main body of the work began, to say I was impressed with the precision of the Cleveland Orchestra is an understatement. They turn on a sixpence and back again with ease. By the time of the coda they were in the groove and the fanfare was far better executed then the opening. Not perfect, a couple of quibbles with a dull opening, and to borrow a phrase from London Underground "mind the gap". The recording in typical CBS fashion has a wide stereo spread and lacks depth but this approach suits the music. All that fades into insignificance with George Szell and his Cleveland Orchestra who are superb.

Interesting, I didn't know Szell had recorded the Sinfonietta. The first recording of the Sinfonietta I bought was from Abbado and the LSO and it has the same Hindemith coupling, I still have the LP though I haven't listened to it for years. Abbado also gets off to a ponderous start and for years I wasn't aware of it as it was the only version I owned.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 19, 2019, 07:14:08 AM
An interesting find. Thanks for sharing. The 10" format did not seem to last for long--late 40s-mid 50s. Interestingly, due to nostalgia (or something), I see many new LPs on the 10" format...

If you like jazz and vinyl, you must, must, must get this two LP set...Heaven.

(https://img.discogs.com/1x09IMZAT36jKNly7vkAL5-0MKw=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7872093-1460987772-1345.jpeg.jpg)

https://www.discogs.com/Chet-Baker-Bill-Evans-The-Complete-Recordings/release/7872093

Apologies for the delay in responding to you.  I had been meaning to thank you for you Bill Evans/Chet Baker recommendation.  When I went to a local record store the other day, I inquired about it.  The sales person who looked it up was surprised to hear about it as it was new to him and he said that he was a big Bill Evans fan!  It seems that it's available on both CD and vinyl with, of course, more tracks on the CD issue.  Tempting!   :)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 19, 2019, 08:37:10 AM
Interesting, I didn't know Szell had recorded the Sinfonietta. The first recording of the Sinfonietta I bought was from Abbado and the LSO and it has the same Hindemith coupling, I still have the LP though I haven't listened to it for years. Abbado also gets off to a ponderous start and for years I wasn't aware of it as it was the only version I owned.

I like the recordings Abbado made for Decca with the LSO. Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet is outstanding and Mendelssohn "Scottish" Symphony is excellent, but I dislike Abbado's Sinfonietta with a passion despite the fact it was top choice in the 1975 Penguin Guide. I owned a wide band copy of which I was delighted to find a buyer for. Ancerl with the Czech Philharmonic is the benchmark for Sinfonietta, the work is part of the conductor and orchestra's DNA. I also have Kubelik on DG which I have not warmed to without working out why.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 19, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Amazing how obscure and tangled the relationships of the record labels are, even in the age of googling.

I used to know a lot more about the histories of the different labels, but it has been years since I cared to research that info--I have less use for that info these days. Some of if is actually quite interesting. In my early days of collecting (early 90s) I had one or two "mentors" in the record collecting world, both of whom had enormous collections and were extremely knowledgeable. One book I found very helpful and intersting is The Fabulous Phonograph by Roland Gelatt: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5094978-the-fabulous-phonograph-1877-1977

I have the paperback: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15096330-the-fabulous-phonograph-1877-1977
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 20, 2019, 11:39:34 AM
Interesting, I didn't know Szell had recorded the Sinfonietta. The first recording of the Sinfonietta I bought was from Abbado and the LSO and it has the same Hindemith coupling, I still have the LP though I haven't listened to it for years. Abbado also gets off to a ponderous start and for years I wasn't aware of it as it was the only version I owned.

Biffo,

Have you heard Ancerl's recording before (on Supraphon)?  I have it on CD (part of their 'Gold Edition' series)...wonderful!  I remember the first time that I heard it...not certain of the year, but it was on the BBC Proms...trying to remember who conducted it?  I tried for several years to see if I could find a release of it, but no luck.  Think that my jaw must have hit the floor; I had never heard it before, but wow!  Ah, found it--it was with Boulez in 2008 (see Prom 40) here:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/archive/search/performers/3bce590b-479f-42ca-b9e0-82883e0db9a2/3
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 20, 2019, 11:41:41 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/312243097844-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

On a visit to a charity shop yesterday came across Janacek's Sinfonietta. I had no idea Szell had recorded the work. After a clean and brush-up, gave it a spin. The opening brass fanfare did not bode well, I found it slow and laborious with little sense of excitement . After a silent gap - every recording I have heard has the various sections joined up creating a continues whole. Szell treats sections as movements, which I found okay but a bit odd. As the main body of the work began, to say I was impressed with the precision of the Cleveland Orchestra is an understatement. They turn on a sixpence and back again with ease. By the time of the coda they were in the groove and the fanfare was far better executed then the opening. Not perfect, a couple of quibbles with a dull opening, and to borrow a phrase from London Underground "mind the gap". The recording in typical CBS fashion has a wide stereo spread and lacks depth but this approach suits the music. All that fades into insignificance with George Szell and his Cleveland Orchestra who are superb.
Thank you very much for your review Irons!  I haven't heard this recording either.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 20, 2019, 11:42:35 AM
I used to know a lot more about the histories of the different labels, but it has been years since I cared to research that info--I have less use for that info these days. Some of if is actually quite interesting. In my early days of collecting (early 90s) I had one or two "mentors" in the record collecting world, both of whom had enormous collections and were extremely knowledgeable. One book I found very helpful and intersting is The Fabulous Phonograph by Roland Gelatt: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5094978-the-fabulous-phonograph-1877-1977

I have the paperback: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15096330-the-fabulous-phonograph-1877-1977

Thank you for bringing up this book.  I'll put it on my wish list and keep an eye out for it.   :)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 20, 2019, 11:50:18 AM
I was doing some filing (and rearranging--yet again!  ::)) of my record collection and ran across an LP that I forgot that I had purchased.  Hopefully, I'll listen to at least some of it this afternoon.  Sheesh!  I just looked at the prices they're asking for it on Discogs!

(https://img.discogs.com/C1pizsZGR2klz3vG6Qo770mV3QU=/fit-in/580x577/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7520975-1457974124-8760.png.jpg)

The thing that caught my eye:  I hadn't realized that Serge Koussevitzky was also a composer.  Reading about him (liner notes), I see that he was an accomplished double bass player (virtuoso according to Denis Townsley who wrote the liner notes).  Looking forward to listening to his works in particular.   :)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 20, 2019, 11:51:57 AM
Thank you very much for your review Irons!  I haven't heard this recording either.

PD

I have it!



Sarge recommends it highly. I haven't gotten to it yet.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 20, 2019, 07:14:09 PM
Szell is great--probably my favorite Brahms symphonies, although the Columbia LPs from that era (esp the 'six eyes') suffered from excessive high-midrange and tape hiss. I would think the Sony reissues have cleared some of that up.

As for Koussevitsky, I have an old RCA LCT ("Long-playing Classical Treasury" LP reissues of 78 rpm recordings) of him playing the double bass and conducting Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet on the other side. 

EDIT:

Just picked up the Bach Sonatas and Partitas played by Oscar Shumsky on eBay:

(https://img.discogs.com/vll79xmruz9fG3fX_vWWJWb1ink=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9576315-1483032721-7587.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 21, 2019, 12:47:52 AM


EDIT:

Just picked up the Bach Sonatas and Partitas played by Oscar Shumsky on eBay:

(https://img.discogs.com/vll79xmruz9fG3fX_vWWJWb1ink=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9576315-1483032721-7587.jpeg.jpg)

Aligreto - trust he is OK, miss his contributions - featured that recording quite recently. I am fairly sure it was on ASV.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 21, 2019, 01:09:56 AM
I was doing some filing (and rearranging--yet again!  ::)) of my record collection and ran across an LP that I forgot that I had purchased.  Hopefully, I'll listen to at least some of it this afternoon.  Sheesh!  I just looked at the prices they're asking for it on Discogs!

(https://img.discogs.com/C1pizsZGR2klz3vG6Qo770mV3QU=/fit-in/580x577/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7520975-1457974124-8760.png.jpg)

The thing that caught my eye:  I hadn't realized that Serge Koussevitzky was also a composer.  Reading about him (liner notes), I see that he was an accomplished double bass player (virtuoso according to Denis Townsley who wrote the liner notes).  Looking forward to listening to his works in particular.   :)

The Eccles is interesting too, P. His name does not turn up very often!

Perhaps Russian conductors have an urge to compose double bass concertos. Another famous conductor, Kostantin Ivanov composed the two on this recording. It took a couple of listens before the penny dropped I wasn't listening to a cello! Is the soloist in your recording Russian?

(https://i.imgur.com/HyGrkYo.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 21, 2019, 01:53:18 AM
I very rarely buy LPs especially as I don't currently own a functioning record deck. However this really intrigued me, featuring two of my favourite symphonies, and I've snapped it up:
(http://)
Maybe I'll see if I can play it on the microwave turntable.
 ::)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 21, 2019, 04:38:58 AM
Szell is great--probably my favorite Brahms symphonies, although the Columbia LPs from that era (esp the 'six eyes') suffered from excessive high-midrange and tape hiss. I would think the Sony reissues have cleared some of that up.

As for Koussevitsky, I have an old RCA LCT ("Long-playing Classical Treasury" LP reissues of 78 rpm recordings) of him playing the double bass and conducting Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet on the other side. 

EDIT:

Just picked up the Bach Sonatas and Partitas played by Oscar Shumsky on eBay:

(https://img.discogs.com/vll79xmruz9fG3fX_vWWJWb1ink=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9576315-1483032721-7587.jpeg.jpg)
Oh, nice!  Will be interested in seeing how you find Szell's Janacek.  The name of Shumsky rings a bell...vaguely...don't know anything about him however.  I listened to the concerto by him last night...enjoyable.  Will have to give it another go maybe today.  The performer (according to some googling) was/is Romanian.

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 21, 2019, 04:41:51 AM
I very rarely buy LPs especially as I don't currently own a functioning record deck. However this really intrigued me, featuring two of my favourite symphonies, and I've snapped it up:
(http://)
Maybe I'll see if I can play it on the microwave turntable.
 ::)
Perhaps your daughter will lend you 'hers'?   ;)  Or now a good excuse to go out and buy a new one?

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 22, 2019, 08:13:33 AM
Perhaps your daughter will lend you 'hers'?   ;)  Or now a good excuse to go out and buy a new one?

Best,

PD
Definitely!
Thanks.
 :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 24, 2019, 01:17:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YX7z2g0.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/YELsuWq.jpg)

Reiner conducting the Vienna Philharminic in their prime is one of the wonders of the time machine of recorded music. The LSO of the period were no slouch either. I cannot pretend to have heard a long list of DSCH 1st, but Martinon is so good I don't feel I need to. Although stereo is available for both recordings, from this vintage I prefer mono. I have a stereo facsimile of Shostakovich from "Classic Records" but never play that LP. Two very good examples from the superb RCA catalogue of the era.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on February 24, 2019, 06:40:22 PM
Today's LP digitization (FLACulence):

Edith Peinemann playing Dvorak and Ravel--another one I've had sitting around unheard for a couple decades. Wonderful performance and sound quality!

(https://img.discogs.com/ILP5DTOeBLQK2d8_PWUc0OhoEi4=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1925550-1397556954-7973.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: JBS on February 24, 2019, 06:49:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YX7z2g0.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/YELsuWq.jpg)

Reiner conducting the Vienna Philharminic in their prime is one of the wonders of the time machine of recorded music. The LSO of the period were no slouch either. I cannot pretend to have heard a long list of DSCH 1st, but Martinon is so good I don't feel I need to. Although stereo is available for both recordings, from this vintage I prefer mono. I have a stereo facsimile of Shostakovich from "Classic Records" but never play that LP. Two very good examples from the superb RCA catalogue of the era.

Interesting cover art on those two.  Death and Transfiguration gets barely a nod on the Strauss LP....while the DSCH cover reflects the plotline (such as it is) of Age of Gold rather well (heroic Soviet soccer team becomes target of capitalist villiany when it plays a tournament un the decadent West).
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on February 24, 2019, 07:22:16 PM
I like the recordings Abbado made for Decca with the LSO. Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet is outstanding and Mendelssohn "Scottish" Symphony is excellent, but I dislike Abbado's Sinfonietta with a passion despite the fact it was top choice in the 1975 Penguin Guide. I owned a wide band copy of which I was delighted to find a buyer for. Ancerl with the Czech Philharmonic is the benchmark for Sinfonietta, the work is part of the conductor and orchestra's DNA. I also have Kubelik on DG which I have not warmed to without working out why.
There are many wonderful recordings of this work but for me Ancerl just hits a gram slam with this one. Just unbelievable playing from the Czech brass and so vividly recorded you almost cannot believe the age of the recording.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: JBS on February 24, 2019, 07:31:57 PM
There are many wonderful recordings of this work but for me Ancerl just hits a gram slam with this one. Just unbelievable playing from the Czech brass and so vividly recorded you almost cannot believe the age of the recording.

Is this it? If so I agree wholeheartedly.


Although I have it only on CD, and got it for the Martinu, not the Janacek
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on February 25, 2019, 06:02:50 AM
Is this it? If so I agree wholeheartedly.


Although I have it only on CD, and got it for the Martinu, not the Janacek
Yes that is the one. Ancerl is usually more restrained in his readings but here he just lets it rip.

I am surprised that a few fellow GMG'ers have not heard the Szell recording. I don't think the cd is all that rare. You mean you have not heard the LP version?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 26, 2019, 07:43:54 AM
(https://images.eil.com/large_image/MORTON_GOULD_FALL%2BRIVER%2BLEGEND%2BBALLET%2BSUITE%2B%26%2BSPIRITUALS-540316.jpg) (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aggAAOSwB4BaKBl2/s-l300.jpg)

Mercury is not a one size fits all label but the recorded legacy would be all the poorer without the brilliance of C. R. Fine and his team. From day one Mercury was an audiophile label, the only one I have encountered which divulges microphone make, type and placement. "Living Presence" is not a slogan but an accurate description of the presentation of recordings by them, the listener feels he or she can reach out and touch the performers. The downside - there has to be one, as every other label would go down the same route -  Mercury recordings are dry and can be boxy. This presentation would not suit Beethoven and Brahms for example, but for 20th century dynamic music, I love Mercury.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on February 26, 2019, 08:03:06 AM
Yes that is the one. Ancerl is usually more restrained in his readings but here he just lets it rip.

I am surprised that a few fellow GMG'ers have not heard the Szell recording. I don't think the cd is all that rare. You mean you have not heard the LP version?

I have Abbado, Ancerl, Kubelik (x2), Rattle, Mackerras, Belohlavek (x2), Gardiner, Netopil and Neumann but not Szell, never even knew it existed until these recent postings.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 27, 2019, 09:04:45 AM
The main difference between a collector of CDs and LPs is that the former chooses his/her additions and the latter the additions chooses the collector. I do enjoy the lucky-dip element of which treasure is going to turn up next, but it is a haphazard way of building a collection of music. A typical motley crew purchase today from the good people at Classical Exchange.

Haydn: String Quartets Op.76 No.2 & No.5. The Hungarian SQ.

Haydn: String Quartets Op.76 No.5 & No.6. Amadeus SQ.

Bartok/Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.1 & No.4. Rudolf Serkin, Ormandy and The Philadelphia.

Dvorak/Suk: String Serenades. Vlach, Czech Chamber Orchestra.

Anton Rubinstein: 5th Symphony. Zverev USSR Radio Orchestra.

Prokofiev: 1st & 7th Symphonies. Weller and LSO.

Prokofiev: The Prodigal Son. Rozhdestvensky MRSO.

Rimsky/Glazounov: "Antar" Symphony & Scénes de Ballet. Ivanov/Rozhdestvensky, MRSO.

Beethoven" Diabelli Variations. Stephen Bishop.

Kodaly: Galanta/Marosszék/Concerto for Orchestra/Theatre Overture. Dorati with PH.

Kodaly: Peacock Variations/Ballet-Music/Summer Evening/ Rondo. Dorati with PH.

Gabrial Pierné: Images/Paysages/Les Cathédrales. Dervaux with Orchestre Philharmonique des Pays de Loire.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 05, 2019, 08:07:18 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ff8SqQlpL._SL1024_.jpg)

I picked this up mainly because the cheesy cover perversely appealed. Cleaned, filed away and promptly forgot all about it. After at least six months I got around to actually playing, and repeated the experience many times since as it is very good! The 3 movements from "Mother Goose" are exquisitely played by Smith and Sellick. Debussy is superb, this pair have a real feel for the French pianistic idiom. Brahms is another world, but they are great here too. Excellent!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 08, 2019, 08:01:59 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LYn1rc7ZL._SX466_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uYujF8qYL.jpg)

LP cover art is a subject in itself. A heavy tome published in 2008 "Classique Cover Art for Classical Music" features 777 covers from a LP collection owned by a certain Dr. Horst Scerg Sandhausen.
I have zero knowledge of modern art but that is no barrier in appreciation. I like the covers put out by Supraphon. Some are in-house but others by Czech artists.
The one on the left "Musical Stil-Life" (1928) is by Emil Filla and the other, "Fugue in Two Colours" (1920)  by Frantisek Kupka. Both are housed in the National Gallery, Prague.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 14, 2019, 08:19:03 AM
The main difference between a collector of CDs and LPs is that the former chooses his/her additions and the latter the additions chooses the collector. I do enjoy the lucky-dip element of which treasure is going to turn up next, but it is a haphazard way of building a collection of music. A typical motley crew purchase today from the good people at Classical Exchange.

Haydn: String Quartets Op.76 No.2 & No.5. The Hungarian SQ.

Haydn: String Quartets Op.76 No.5 & No.6. Amadeus SQ.

Bartok/Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.1 & No.4. Rudolf Serkin, Ormandy and The Philadelphia.

Dvorak/Suk: String Serenades. Vlach, Czech Chamber Orchestra.

Anton Rubinstein: 5th Symphony. Zverev USSR Radio Orchestra.

Prokofiev: 1st & 7th Symphonies. Weller and LSO.

Prokofiev: The Prodigal Son. Rozhdestvensky MRSO.

Rimsky/Glazounov: "Antar" Symphony & Scénes de Ballet. Ivanov/Rozhdestvensky, MRSO.

Beethoven" Diabelli Variations. Stephen Bishop.

Kodaly: Galanta/Marosszék/Concerto for Orchestra/Theatre Overture. Dorati with PH.

Kodaly: Peacock Variations/Ballet-Music/Summer Evening/ Rondo. Dorati with PH.

Gabrial Pierné: Images/Paysages/Les Cathédrales. Dervaux with Orchestre Philharmonique des Pays de Loire.
Quite a nice haul there Irons!   :)

I thought about your comments regarding the differences in terms of CD vs. LP collectors and at first I agreed, but then I thought about it some more and didn't agree quite so much.  I haven't been buying new CDs as much lately--more relying on chance luck whilst digging through used CDs (either at a real record/CD store or at charity shops).  I'll add my 'new' (used) ones to the list of recent acquisitions when I get a chance.

Regarding LPs, I ran across a LP of Fournier playing I believe Nos. 5 & 6 of Bach's Suites for Solo Cello in great shape at a record store whilst browsing with a friend.  I balked at the price though on it partly as I wasn't in the best of moods (thinking that I had lost several things).  My friend, feeling badly for me, went back the next day and bought it for me and surprised me with it the next time that we got together!  And in the end, I was able to locate the items that I had lost.   :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 14, 2019, 08:20:51 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LYn1rc7ZL._SX466_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uYujF8qYL.jpg)

LP cover art is a subject in itself. A heavy tome published in 2008 "Classique Cover Art for Classical Music" features 777 covers from a LP collection owned by a certain Dr. Horst Scerg Sandhausen.
I have zero knowledge of modern art but that is no barrier in appreciation. I like the covers put out by Supraphon. Some are in-house but others by Czech artists.
The one on the left "Musical Stil-Life" (1928) is by Emil Filla and the other, "Fugue in Two Colours" (1920)  by Frantisek Kupka. Both are housed in the National Gallery, Prague.

And yet more great finds for you!  Envious of the Gertler finds; were you able to get them for a decent price Irons?

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 15, 2019, 12:14:45 AM
Quite a nice haul there Irons!   :)

I thought about your comments regarding the differences in terms of CD vs. LP collectors and at first I agreed, but then I thought about it some more and didn't agree quite so much.  I haven't been buying new CDs as much lately--more relying on chance luck whilst digging through used CDs (either at a real record/CD store or at charity shops).  I'll add my 'new' (used) ones to the list of recent acquisitions when I get a chance.

Regarding LPs, I ran across a LP of Fournier playing I believe Nos. 5 & 6 of Bach's Suites for Solo Cello in great shape at a record store whilst browsing with a friend.  I balked at the price though on it partly as I wasn't in the best of moods (thinking that I had lost several things).  My friend, feeling badly for me, went back the next day and bought it for me and surprised me with it the next time that we got together!  And in the end, I was able to locate the items that I had lost.   :)



That is what you call a friend, P. :) After reading your post I played 5. I do like the Milos Sadlo set but without doubt Fournier is the top recommendation available on LP. A gentle hint would not be amiss for Vol. 1&2. ;)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 15, 2019, 06:18:22 AM
That is what you call a friend, P. :) After reading your post I played 5. I do like the Milos Sadlo set but without doubt Fournier is the top recommendation available on LP. A gentle hint would not be amiss for Vol. 1&2. ;)
I'll keep that in mind!   ;D ;)

By the way,  do you (or anyone else here who reads this) know how to quote multiple people in making a reply?  I haven't been able to figure that one out...  ::)

PD

p.s.  The store that had the record was asking $20 for that LP (which seemed quite pricey to me).  Have you seen any copies of any of those LPs for less Irons?  I found this on e-Bay (It's the same edition that he purchased for me but Nos. 1 & 2).  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bach-Pierre-Fournier-Suites-for-Solo-Cello-1-2-Archiv-198-186-LP-/173835011173
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 15, 2019, 06:39:38 AM
I'll keep that in mind!   ;D ;)

By the way,  do you (or anyone else here who reads this) know how to quote multiple people in making a reply?  I haven't been able to figure that one out...  ::)

PD

When you've started a post you will see that you are at the top of a page where previous posts are arrayed below. Each has an "Insert Quote" link, which inserts a quote wherever your cursor happens to be.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 15, 2019, 07:20:46 AM
When you've started a post you will see that you are at the top of a page where previous posts are arrayed below. Each has an "Insert Quote" link, which inserts a quote wherever your cursor happens to be.
Hmmm.....(giving it a try)....like this?


By the way,  do you (or anyone else here who reads this) know how to quote multiple people in making a reply?  I haven't been able to figure that one out...  ::)

PD



EDIT:  Hey, it worked!  Thank you Ghost!   :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 15, 2019, 07:33:05 AM


p.s.  The store that had the record was asking $20 for that LP (which seemed quite pricey to me).  Have you seen any copies of any of those LPs for less Irons?  I found this on e-Bay (It's the same edition that he purchased for me but Nos. 1 & 2).  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bach-Pierre-Fournier-Suites-for-Solo-Cello-1-2-Archiv-198-186-LP-/173835011173

That is about right. Solo string Bach has a premium - if the artist is female, a further premium! The Archive cream covers in stereo sell for silly money  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIERRE-FOURNIER-BACH-Cello-suites-N-1-4-ARCHIV-RED-TAG-GERMANY-2LP-ORG-press/163576172364?hash=item2615e64f4c:g:wRgAAOSw5cJaoEcD I prefer your issue, as extremely difficult to remove LP from the cream cover without tearing and/or leaving finger marks on the record groove.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 15, 2019, 10:02:10 AM
That is about right. Solo string Bach has a premium - if the artist is female, a further premium! The Archive cream covers in stereo sell for silly money  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIERRE-FOURNIER-BACH-Cello-suites-N-1-4-ARCHIV-RED-TAG-GERMANY-2LP-ORG-press/163576172364?hash=item2615e64f4c:g:wRgAAOSw5cJaoEcD I prefer your issue, as extremely difficult to remove LP from the cream cover without tearing and/or leaving finger marks on the record groove.
Boy, well, then it might take me a while to acquire the other two then.   :(  I will take a good look through that record shop next time I go back there (which could be in the very near future)....perhaps they purchased them from the same person but hadn't yet gotten around to putting them out?  One can hope anyway.  I double-checked through my CDs, but alas, I don't have the Bach recordings of Fournier.  I do have two sets:  that EMI Icon set and also DG's The Originals of his recordings...plus a few single CDs too.  I know that I have at least one other LP with Fournier (on DG)...trying to remember what was on that album.  If I'm recalling correctly, the LP was in good shape; the cover, lousy.

Which female cellists' recordings do you particularly enjoy (re Bach) Irons?

Oooh!  No more music listening to me for a bit; Roger is about ready to step onto the court (vs. a 22 year-old and talented Hungarian tennis player at Indian Wells in the quarters)!   ;D

Best,

PD

EDIT:  My goof; the other player is from Poland!   :-[

EDIT 2:  I see that DG reissued the LPs in 2017 (probably sold out.  I see that they're listed as being on back order on Arkivmusic's website though).  https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/us/cat/4796963
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 15, 2019, 02:41:34 PM
Had an enjoyable day out yesterday. Spent 1.5 hrs cleaning 15 LPs at my audio dealer, followed by lunch. My usual place, which has Ayinger Doppelbock on tap, along with delicious waffles, served until 4PM (you won't see me out of bed before 10) are locally famous. However, the place was closed yesterday due to some nearby construction. Hence, I made it to our local Italian place for a pescatore with tomato base, pinot noir, and dark chocolate/sea salt dessert with cappucino.

Highlights of the classical LPs

- Albert Spalding plays Tartini sonatas on Remington
- Alfred Cortot plays Chopin etudes on Pathé
- Herman Abendroth conducts Tchaikovsky Symphony No 4 on Urania
- Oscar Shumsky plays Bach Sonatas and Partitas on MHS 3 LP (recent eBay find)
- Hollywood SQ plays quartets by Smetana ("From my life") and Glazunov Novelettes
- Paul Paray conducts Mendelssohn Reformation Symphony etc., on Mercury Living Presence Stereo

That, plus a few others and a bunch of jazz will keep me busy for another few months (FLAC one a week)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 16, 2019, 01:43:35 AM
PD, I cannot think of female cellists playing Bach but there are some fine specialist Bach pianists, including Tatiana Nikolaeva and Rosalyn Tureck. But I did say string players so my vote would go to the delectable Johanna Martzy. I see her recording of Bach is sold out and I very much doubt there will be a re-press so my kids may make a few bob out of that one day. ::)

(http://www.coupdarchet.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/19007b.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/0ZewNJ82wRgzC_n5o1-_ErQtKss=/fit-in/600x609/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6499446-1445618933-4310.jpeg.jpg)

Her recordings are extremely rare for the simple reason she didn't make many. There is a "me too" reason why, a fascinating but tragic story (if true).
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: (: premont :) on March 16, 2019, 07:16:25 AM
PD, I cannot think of female cellists playing Bach but there are some fine specialist Bach pianists, including Tatiana Nikolaeva and Rosalyn Tureck. But I did say string players so my vote would go to the delectable Johanna Martzy. I see her recording of Bach is sold out and I very much doubt there will be a re-press so my kids may make a few bob out of that one day. ::)

There are very many female cellists who play Bach, and do it splendidly.

Martzy's Bach S&P are not sold out. They are f.i. contained in this box, but of course it is CD:

https://www.amazon.fr/Bach-Sonates-Partitas-violoncelle-Coffret/dp/B000V1Z0CG/ref=sr_1_10?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=johanna+martzy+bach&qid=1552749137&s=music&sr=1-10
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 17, 2019, 01:42:08 AM
There are very many female cellists who play Bach, and do it splendidly.

Martzy's Bach S&P are not sold out. They are f.i. contained in this box, but of course it is CD:

https://www.amazon.fr/Bach-Sonates-Partitas-violoncelle-Coffret/dp/B000V1Z0CG/ref=sr_1_10?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=johanna+martzy+bach&qid=1552749137&s=music&sr=1-10

I'm sure there are.

Thirty three and a third.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 21, 2019, 01:37:38 AM
Michael Fremer, a contributor to "Stereophile",  is well known in the vinyl world. Talks with authority on all things LP, particularly on what it is played on. I would think he would be the first to admit that his knowledge of classical music is not great but should that bar him from talking about the subject? His YT talk on the best Beethoven set of symphonies has caused quiet a stir on a vinyl based forum. One side of the argument most vitriol in their view that he should not give a lecture on a subject he knows nothing about. The other is that is being elitist, why not chip in even if you are not an "expert". To be fair to Fremer he does not pretend to be one.
My own view is listening to Fremer I'm not going to learn anything about Beethoven but am entertained. So fine, talk away. It made me feel slightly queasy that he was mocked for not pronouncing names such as "Rubinstein" correctly. That lost the argument for me.

https://youtu.be/0V82SMCcuPU
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 22, 2019, 06:05:30 AM
Had an enjoyable day out yesterday. Spent 1.5 hrs cleaning 15 LPs at my audio dealer, followed by lunch. My usual place, which has Ayinger Doppelbock on tap, along with delicious waffles, served until 4PM (you won't see me out of bed before 10) are locally famous. However, the place was closed yesterday due to some nearby construction. Hence, I made it to our local Italian place for a pescatore with tomato base, pinot noir, and dark chocolate/sea salt dessert with cappucino.

Highlights of the classical LPs

- Albert Spalding plays Tartini sonatas on Remington
- Alfred Cortot plays Chopin etudes on Pathé
- Herman Abendroth conducts Tchaikovsky Symphony No 4 on Urania
- Oscar Shumsky plays Bach Sonatas and Partitas on MHS 3 LP (recent eBay find)
- Hollywood SQ plays quartets by Smetana ("From my life") and Glazunov Novelettes
- Paul Paray conducts Mendelssohn Reformation Symphony etc., on Mercury Living Presence Stereo

That, plus a few others and a bunch of jazz will keep me busy for another few months (FLAC one a week)

Both your meal and your LPs sound lovely!  Are the albums new to you or are those some of the ones that you cleaned and are now listening to?  By the way, what kind of record cleaning machine does your dealer have?

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 22, 2019, 07:17:24 AM
His YT talk on the best Beethoven set of symphonies has caused quiet a stir on a vinyl based forum[...]
My own view is listening to Fremer I'm not going to learn anything about Beethoven but am entertained.... https://youtu.be/0V82SMCcuPU

I was entertained too. Thanks for the link. Interestingly, his first two recommendations (Karajan and Bernstein) are box sets I too own.

Sarge
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 22, 2019, 07:57:33 AM
I was entertained too. Thanks for the link. Interestingly, his first two recommendations (Karajan and Bernstein) are box sets I too own.

Sarge

I laughed at his description of a German and English interpretation of a Beethoven symphony.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 22, 2019, 09:04:42 PM
Both your meal and your LPs sound lovely!  Are the albums new to you or are those some of the ones that you cleaned and are now listening to?  By the way, what kind of record cleaning machine does your dealer have?

Best wishes,

PD

Hello PD,

Every few months or so I take 12-15 LPs to my dealer to clean--at a rate of one digitization a week, it works out well for me. I'll just go ahead and give them a little plug here (I have zero financial interest in their business). Their owner is the son of the late Brooks Berdan, known as one of the best turntable guys in the world. I bought several pieces from Brooks, including my Oracle, back in the 1990s. https://audio-element.com

A couple years ago, I had them tune the suspension on my Oracle Delphi, install a new cartridge and overhaul my Audible Illusions tube pre-amp with all new tubes. They also have a deal whereby, if you buy cleaning fluid, you can come in and use the machines any time you want. Nice deal. It's also good business, as it keeps people coming back in. I flat out do not need any more equipment now, but every time I visit, I try to buy something, even if it's just an LP.

Anyway, they have a few machines. I have used the Keith Monks machine a few times before, but now I prefer the ClearAudio (don't know the model). Both retail for about $6000, which is waaaaaaaaaay more than I'd ever pay for something like this. Nevertheless, it is great to be able to use them for free. If I had to buy a machine, I'd just go for the basic VPI--absolutely bullet-proof and very functional at about a tenth of the price. There really is no need for such a deluxe maching unless you're cleaning thousands of records a year--or you are filthy rich with money to burn.

ANyway, every time I visit, my records I'm cleaning are a combination of about half new ones I've bought in local shops or online, and half old ones I've had sitting on my shelves, sadly neglected for 2+ decades! Nice to dust them off for a listen!

The neighborhood there is very nice as well, with lots of good restaurants and some very interesting architecture and museums. (Norton Simon, one of the BEST art museums in the world!)

Do you have access to a cleaning machine? Any interesting new finds?  :)

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 07, 2019, 05:08:09 AM
Hello PD,

Do you have access to a cleaning machine? Any interesting new finds?  :)

Hello,

Apologies for the long delay in replying.

Sounds like a neat shop!  Really nice that you can clean your LPs there--and using such nice RCMs too.  A few years ago, I purchased an Okki Nokki.  https://www.okkinokki.com  If you scroll down the page, you'll see a photo of two metal RCMs; I have the black one.  Reminds me that I need to contact my guy at the audio store to order some new pads for the brushes.  I just have the arm that is designed to clean 33 1/3 LPs.  They also make ones designed to clean different sized records too.  Works pretty nicely.   :)

Yesterday I went with a friend to a record store and purchased a few LPs.  This is what I came back with:

A Chandos LP of Rachmaninov's Sonata for Cello and Piano Op. 19 and Myaskovsky's Sonata No. 2 for Cello and Piano Op. 81 with Yuli Turovsky and Luba Edlina

A Virgin Classics LP of Finzi's Dies Natalis, Clarinet Concerto and Farewell to Arms with Martyn Hill, Michael Collins, City of London Sinfonia with Richard Hickox

On Supraphon - Janacek's String Quartets with the Smetana Quartet

Linda Ronstadt's "Simple Dreams"

And, lastly, The Eurythmic's "Be Yourself Tonight"

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 16, 2019, 11:34:53 PM
CRD is a fairly recent discovery. Leaving the core repertoire to the majors and concentrating on instrumental and chamber I am most impressed by this label. Through the 1970's in analogue, the production values are first class (all sleeves gatefold). Mostly recorded in churches scattered around the London area all I have so far collected are by Bob Auger as sound engineer. As often the case in both the Britten and Fauré below I already own recordings made by main-stream labels but prefer for both sound and performance the same work from CRD. My focus is analogue, so although I understand they are currently in business I cannot comment how CRD perform today. 

(https://plade-klassikeren.dk/78410-large_default/faure-cello-sonatas-nos-1-2-thomas-igloi-clifford-benson-1-lp-crd.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/iTKnJqxNkkfJIHCEP1vIF67PK_U=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7087216-1433419729-6220.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 17, 2019, 02:37:31 AM
CRD is a fairly recent discovery. Leaving the core repertoire to the majors and concentrating on instrumental and chamber I am most impressed by this label. Through the 1970's in analogue, the production values are first class (all sleeves gatefold). Mostly recorded in churches scattered around the London area all I have so far collected are by Bob Auger as sound engineer. As often the case in both the Britten and Fauré below I already own recordings made by main-stream labels but prefer for both sound and performance the same work from CRD. My focus is analogue, so although I understand they are currently in business I cannot comment how CRD perform today. 

(https://plade-klassikeren.dk/78410-large_default/faure-cello-sonatas-nos-1-2-thomas-igloi-clifford-benson-1-lp-crd.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/iTKnJqxNkkfJIHCEP1vIF67PK_U=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7087216-1433419729-6220.jpeg.jpg)

Hi Irons,

I believe that I have one or two of CRD's CDs (will have a go through them later) but don't recall having any of their LPs.  Will certainly keep an eye out for the LPs!  Any duds?  Or particular favorites that you've run across?

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 17, 2019, 05:36:14 AM
Hello, P. Where have you been hiding!

In a flurry of excitement I purchased in one go four LPs which are a part of the complete piano music of Granados by Thomas Rajna on CRD. I normally love Spanish music but for some reason this set (or music) does not work for me.

I recall you are an admirer of The Nash Ensemble so this would be perfect for you. The Trio is my favourite Fauré work.

(http://assets.rootsvinylguide.com/pictures/1982-uk-nrm-crd-1089-stereo-faure-la-bonne-chanson-trio-in-d-minor-the-nash-ens_44267331)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 17, 2019, 09:38:55 AM
CRD is a fairly recent discovery. Leaving the core repertoire to the majors and concentrating on instrumental and chamber I am most impressed by this label. Through the 1970's in analogue, the production values are first class (all sleeves gatefold). Mostly recorded in churches scattered around the London area all I have so far collected are by Bob Auger as sound engineer. As often the case in both the Britten and Fauré below I already own recordings made by main-stream labels but prefer for both sound and performance the same work from CRD. My focus is analogue, so although I understand they are currently in business I cannot comment how CRD perform today. 

(https://plade-klassikeren.dk/78410-large_default/faure-cello-sonatas-nos-1-2-thomas-igloi-clifford-benson-1-lp-crd.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/iTKnJqxNkkfJIHCEP1vIF67PK_U=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7087216-1433419729-6220.jpeg.jpg)

I have a small number of those gatefold CRD albums and I have always liked their content and presentation.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 17, 2019, 11:06:18 PM
I have a small number of those gatefold CRD albums and I have always liked their content and presentation.

Yes, only a small company so there are not masses of LPs (or CDs) out there, but you have to admire the single mindedness of the label in content and presentation.

The CD catalogue can be found here   http://www.crdrecords.com/about.htm

I notice there are some omissions from the LP era. The most glaring I will post on "Listening now thread".
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 18, 2019, 04:22:14 AM
Hello, P. Where have you been hiding!

In a flurry of excitement I purchased in one go four LPs which are a part of the complete piano music of Granados by Thomas Rajna on CRD. I normally love Spanish music but for some reason this set (or music) does not work for me.

I recall you are an admirer of The Nash Ensemble so this would be perfect for you. The Trio is my favourite Fauré work.

(http://assets.rootsvinylguide.com/pictures/1982-uk-nrm-crd-1089-stereo-faure-la-bonne-chanson-trio-in-d-minor-the-nash-ens_44267331)

Hello Irons.  :-)  Not trying to hide...just awfully busy lately and am currently trying to get over a cold ...so goes life!   ;)  I hadn't heard of Thomas Rajna before now and googled him.  Perhaps it's his interpretations/performances of the music that are 'off' with you?  Have you heard Alicia de Larrocha's recordings of Granados's music before Irons?  I quite enjoy them and they've received rave reviews.  Don't have any of them on LP myself, but they are available.  Perhaps try this sample and see how you find it?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5aCv4t4peU

And, yes, you did rightly recall; I am indeed an admirer of the Nash Ensemble.  And I do also love Fauré!   :)

Best,

PD


I have a small number of those gatefold CRD albums and I have always liked their content and presentation.
Which ones do you own Aligreto?

PD
Yes, only a small company so there are not masses of LPs (or CDs) out there, but you have to admire the single mindedness of the label in content and presentation.


The CD catalogue can be found here   http://www.crdrecords.com/about.htm

I notice there are some omissions from the LP era. The most glaring I will post on "Listening now thread".
And thanks Irons for that link.  I'll check it out later today.

PD

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 18, 2019, 06:16:57 AM
Blimey, P, you are adept at this double quoting. I have not worked it out myself. :(
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 18, 2019, 06:24:04 AM
Blimey, P, you are adept at this double quoting. I have not worked it out myself. :(

Hey, I had to make a correction to mine after I had posted it, so don't feel badly!  A kind poster here told me how to do it; you go to the second posting of a person whose posting you wish to quote and click on the quote button for that one.  Note:  make sure that before you do that, you have your cursor in the place where you wish the second quote to go in your new posting.  You can then delete any irrelevant parts of the quote.  After doing that, again, move your cursor down past the end of the second quote to type your reply.

Give it a try Irons.   :)

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 18, 2019, 07:33:06 AM

Which ones do you own Aligreto?


I will have to check my vinyl collection but Fauré does come to mind immediately along with Ravel.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 18, 2019, 10:29:19 PM
Blimey, P, you are adept at this double quoting. I have not worked it out myself. :(

I will have to check my vinyl collection but Fauré does come to mind immediately along with Ravel.
 
Thanks, Aligreto.


Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 19, 2019, 03:25:11 AM
 
Thanks, Aligreto.

Bravo sir!  Well done! ;D

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 25, 2019, 11:01:04 PM
Found another Doyen/Fournier LP on eBay--Handel sonatas on Vega. I hope to find some of her LPs while in France this summer.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/R8QAAOSweuNcwSy-/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 27, 2019, 01:46:01 AM
A gorgeous gallery of Gallant Inventions [The City Waites]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MtAAAOSwXDVcq4Rk/s-l1600.jpg)


This is something just a little bit different.
This is a novel, wonderful and sometimes quirky offering. The vocals and indeed the vocal harmonies are very engaging. The textures of the instruments add to the atmosphere and the recording is great.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 27, 2019, 11:08:04 AM
Also couldn't resist picking up a Jorg Demus--Bach French Suite No 5 and Partita No. 1 on Remington. A wonderful performance, and this is an interesting old label despite the surface noise. You can hear it on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMM-YPjgerk

(https://img.discogs.com/NlMflo-NlsBdXrgMqtc0b_pORwc=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10880963-1505855714-9068.jpeg.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 28, 2019, 12:56:05 AM
Also couldn't resist picking up a Jorg Demus--Bach French Suite No 5 and Partita No. 1 on Remington. A wonderful performance, and this is an interesting old label despite the surface noise. You can hear it on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMM-YPjgerk

(https://img.discogs.com/NlMflo-NlsBdXrgMqtc0b_pORwc=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10880963-1505855714-9068.jpeg.jpg)

I am listening to it now. Nice. Thank you for the link.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 28, 2019, 04:03:33 AM
CRD is a fairly recent discovery. Leaving the core repertoire to the majors and concentrating on instrumental and chamber I am most impressed by this label. Through the 1970's in analogue, the production values are first class (all sleeves gatefold). Mostly recorded in churches scattered around the London area all I have so far collected are by Bob Auger as sound engineer. As often the case in both the Britten and Fauré below I already own recordings made by main-stream labels but prefer for both sound and performance the same work from CRD. My focus is analogue, so although I understand they are currently in business I cannot comment how CRD perform today. 

(https://plade-klassikeren.dk/78410-large_default/faure-cello-sonatas-nos-1-2-thomas-igloi-clifford-benson-1-lp-crd.jpg)

To my great disappointment my only other LP, other than the one shown above, that I own in this series is the following


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/619w90D7fiL._SX679_.jpg)


This is most disappointing as I was convinced that I owned at least one more, if not two more of these.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 28, 2019, 12:53:38 PM
To my great disappointment my only other LP, other than the one shown above, that I own in this series is the following


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/619w90D7fiL._SX679_.jpg)


This is most disappointing as I was convinced that I owned at least one more, if not two more of these.

That is on my "to get" list. If you like the Britten string quartets I do recommend CRD 1095. Plentiful on eBay and all CRD LPs are inexpensive.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 30, 2019, 07:40:40 AM

If you like the Britten string quartets I do recommend CRD 1095. Plentiful on eBay and all CRD LPs are inexpensive.

Thank you for that recommendation.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 01, 2019, 07:45:50 PM
I am listening to it now. Nice. Thank you for the link.

Glad you like it; i think his playing of both pieces is gorgeous. I hate to say it, but I think I even prefer it to the Dinu Lipatti.

And also...

Just don't play your Crossley (or anything!) on a Crosley!!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on May 02, 2019, 06:52:05 AM
Glad you like it; i think his playing of both pieces is gorgeous. I hate to say it, but I think I even prefer it to the Dinu Lipatti.

And also...

Just don't play your Crossley (or anything!) on a Crosley!!  :laugh:

What was interesting for me here was that I generally prefer to listen to JS Bach on a harpsichord and this was not difficult on my ears; a tribute to his playing.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 07, 2019, 11:20:03 AM
Sadly, the Demus Bach LP on arrived CRACKED. As in, totally cracked (extending from label to edge). Fortunately, the eBay seller refunded my money instantly and did not even ask for me to send it back (hate to waste the better part of an hour going to the post office--really not worth it for a $20 item!!)

No one else had this one on eBay so I just ordered a different one.

Now, a question: Is there any chance of fixing a cracked record like this--i.e., so that it will be playable? Applying the right adhesive (?) with a little bit of gentle pressure? I am very skeptical it would work, that the grooves would line up correctly, and there would not be a tick, tick, tick, tick throughout the entire record. Probably not worth the bother--more of a curiosity thing than anything else.




Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on May 07, 2019, 11:46:18 PM
Sadly, the Demus Bach LP on arrived CRACKED. As in, totally cracked (extending from label to edge). Fortunately, the eBay seller refunded my money instantly and did not even ask for me to send it back (hate to waste the better part of an hour going to the post office--really not worth it for a $20 item!!)

No one else had this one on eBay so I just ordered a different one.

Now, a question: Is there any chance of fixing a cracked record like this--i.e., so that it will be playable? Applying the right adhesive (?) with a little bit of gentle pressure? I am very skeptical it would work, that the grooves would line up correctly, and there would not be a tick, tick, tick, tick throughout the entire record. Probably not worth the bother--more of a curiosity thing than anything else.

Sadly not a chance. If such a thing could be attempted I dread to think of the damage sustained to your stylus.

Good to hear you were treated fairly by the seller of the recording. As protection for buyers positive/negative feedback works on eBay.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on May 08, 2019, 06:54:30 AM
Sadly, the Demus Bach LP on arrived CRACKED. As in, totally cracked (extending from label to edge). Fortunately, the eBay seller refunded my money instantly and did not even ask for me to send it back (hate to waste the better part of an hour going to the post office--really not worth it for a $20 item!!)

Now, a question: Is there any chance of fixing a cracked record like this--i.e., so that it will be playable? Applying the right adhesive (?) with a little bit of gentle pressure? I am very skeptical it would work, that the grooves would line up correctly, and there would not be a tick, tick, tick, tick throughout the entire record. Probably not worth the bother--more of a curiosity thing than anything else.

Sadly not a chance. If such a thing could be attempted I dread to think of the damage sustained to your stylus.

Good to hear you were treated fairly by the seller of the recording. As protection for buyers positive/negative feedback works on eBay.


Agreed, the damage to your stylus would be the issue here.

Thankfully this has only happened to me one and, like you, I received a full refund. I then threw the two halves of the LP into the bin.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 08, 2019, 09:10:02 AM
Sadly, the Demus Bach LP on arrived CRACKED. As in, totally cracked (extending from label to edge). Fortunately, the eBay seller refunded my money instantly and did not even ask for me to send it back (hate to waste the better part of an hour going to the post office--really not worth it for a $20 item!!)

No one else had this one on eBay so I just ordered a different one.

Now, a question: Is there any chance of fixing a cracked record like this--i.e., so that it will be playable? Applying the right adhesive (?) with a little bit of gentle pressure? I am very skeptical it would work, that the grooves would line up correctly, and there would not be a tick, tick, tick, tick throughout the entire record. Probably not worth the bother--more of a curiosity thing than anything else.

Did it once with a 78 rpm shellac disc (utterly replaceable and only played it once to make a copy on tape). Only worked for one side, tape was used on the other side to hold it together. But an LP has much finer grooves and I think it would be virtually impossible to align them.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on May 09, 2019, 05:39:38 AM
In May 2018 SME surprisingly took ownership to the rights of Garrard Turntables. I wondered at the time where they would go with this. Soon to be announced a replica of the legendary Garrard 301 turntable at a cool £12,500! :o

(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59893552_10218115448979173_2066051626413588480_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=84607090c0b2f35d4856edf196050a4e&oe=5D6A7AB4)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on May 09, 2019, 08:46:24 AM
In May 2018 SME surprisingly took ownership to the rights of Garrard Turntables. I wondered at the time where they would go with this. Soon to be announced a replica of the legendary Garrard 301 turntable at a cool £12,500! :o

(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59893552_10218115448979173_2066051626413588480_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=84607090c0b2f35d4856edf196050a4e&oe=5D6A7AB4)

Garrard is another nostalgia trip but I don't think I'll be splashing out £12,500 on one. More likely a £45 retro turntable from HMV.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 09, 2019, 09:08:50 AM
I had a low-level consumer grade Garrard turntable when I was a kid. I didn't know they made anything remotely "audiophile."
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on May 09, 2019, 11:42:35 PM
In May 2018 SME surprisingly took ownership to the rights of Garrard Turntables. I wondered at the time where they would go with this. Soon to be announced a replica of the legendary Garrard 301 turntable at a cool £12,500! :o

(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59893552_10218115448979173_2066051626413588480_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=84607090c0b2f35d4856edf196050a4e&oe=5D6A7AB4)

That is interesting on both counts [I did not know that SME took ownership to the rights of Garrard Turntables]. The names of both SME and Garrard have a good provenance.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on May 10, 2019, 06:32:58 AM
I had a low-level consumer grade Garrard turntable when I was a kid. I didn't know they made anything remotely "audiophile."

Both the 301 and 401 (which I use daily) are excellent.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 13, 2019, 06:59:43 PM
My efforts to buy a Jorg Demus Bach LP on eBay are apparently an affront to the laws of God and nature. The second attempt resulted not in a cracked LP (like the first one), but rather, the delivery of a 50s mono recording of the Nutcracker Suite conducted by Anatole Fistoulari on Decca. (you can stop laughing now) Seller refunded my money, and thinks there is hope of my ultimately receiving the correct article, as soon as he can figure out who he may have shipped to.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on May 14, 2019, 11:47:24 AM
My efforts to buy a Jorg Demus Bach LP on eBay are apparently an affront to the laws of God and nature. The second attempt resulted not in a cracked LP (like the first one), but rather, the delivery of a 50s mono recording of the Nutcracker Suite conducted by Anatole Fistoulari on Decca. (you can stop laughing now) Seller refunded my money, and thinks there is hope of my ultimately receiving the correct article, as soon as he can figure out who he may have shipped to.

Apparently doomed at every turn!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on May 15, 2019, 11:38:52 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/5020926112125.jpg?1542303922)

Discussing a CD on a vinyl thread may be odd but relevant, I think. The above performances - Overture "Conflict" is a cracking piece - were recorded from BBC radio broadcasts using "state-of-the-art" tape recorders by Richard Itter. The overture and 1st Symphony are both in mono which I have no issue with. "Conflict" lives up to it's name, but the quieter passages of the symphony I was struck by a high degree of background hiss. This surprised me as the LP record is not known for silent backgrounds. Many releases from Mercury on LP are very hissy which I do not find bothersome at all, in fact I look at it as part of the Mercury package. I do not have an axe to grind as far as CD as a music carrier is concerned but surprised that in the digital domain I am unable to subconsciously filter background hiss out, but listening in analogue I can.

I am grateful to hear music otherwise unavailable but at full price I do not think this release represents good value due to issues of sound. Perfect as a supplement to the BBC MM. The other Wordsworth Lyrita CD of Symphonies 2 & 3, a regular recording, is superb and a far better representation of the art of William Wordsworth IMO.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on May 26, 2019, 11:57:41 PM
It doesn't seem possible that it is coming up forty years that Hogwood and The Academy of Ancient Music recorded a complete set of Mozart Symphonies for L'Oiseau-Lyre. I have always admired the performances and slowly collected them over the years. Due to the Decca New Malden vinyl pressing plant closing down in 1980 and all production moved to Holland it follows, or so I thought, the whole series are in Dutch pressings. I had a double take when last week I happened across volume 3 in New Malden pressings. A lot is said on the differences of sound between Dutch and English pressed Decca issues, something I do not concern myself with as much as I once did, but the difference in presentation here is much larger then I would have imagined. The orchestra is more close-up, more immediate and at the same time seems smaller in number. The A of AM has a distant perspective and the sound reverberant and less clear in the Dutch pressing. I surmise that volume 3 was the first (1979) volume from Hogwood and one of the last to be pressed at New Malden, subsequent pressings of the same set were Dutch. An early pressing run will always result in better sound anyway. Recording venue and production team remained the same for the whole series.

 (https://i.imgur.com/elCe7Fh.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/04Lb3HX.jpg)

Edit: Both sets were made up with the same size orchestra, 9 first violins, 8 second violins, 4 violas, 3 cellos, 2 double basses, 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 3 bassoons, 2 trumpets, 4 horns and timpani.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 27, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
Leaving for France in a couple weeks. Do any of the cognoscenti here know of any good record shops in Paris (St. Malo? Vannes? Dinan? Carnac?)??  8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Mandryka on May 27, 2019, 07:20:23 PM
Leaving for France in a couple weeks. Do any of the cognoscenti here know of any good record shops in Paris (St. Malo? Vannes? Dinan? Carnac?)??  8)

Paris has the best second hand CD shop I know, Melomania on Boulevard St Germain. If I were you I’d go in there and ask them.

Every Sunday morning there’s a very big flea market close to the Vanves metro station, it’s always full of LPs.

Gibert Jeune in the 5th arrondissement may be worth trying, it’s very close to Melomania in fact.  Again they’re a big academic second hand book shop and I’ve seen CDs there I’m sure - if they don’t have LPs they’ll put you on to good places.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on May 28, 2019, 01:15:32 AM
Leaving for France in a couple weeks. Do any of the cognoscenti here know of any good record shops in Paris (St. Malo? Vannes? Dinan? Carnac?)??  8)

Classical CDs are generally very expensive in France. I have no information on Paris but the situation in Brittany is now pretty bleak. There used to be harmonia mundi shops in Rennes and Quimper but the whole chain has now closed down. In the past some people have found fnac to be good but I find they now have a pretty feeble selection of compilations, popular classics etc. There is a fnac in the shopping complex just outside Vannes but personally I wouldn't make a special visit.

The specialist shops mentioned by Mandryka are more likely to be worth a visit but otherwise it is probably better just to buy stuff online. The days when most towns and cities had a record shop and browsing was fun are long gone.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 28, 2019, 07:01:04 PM
Thanks Mandryka and Biffo, very interesting. If either of you are in the neighborhood (Paris, Brittany) in June, let me know if you want to meet for drinks or lunch.

I am actually mainly looking for LPs. I certainly do not need any, but if I find any, great! LPs by Yvonne Lefebure and some other hard-to-find French artists are at the top of my list.

We will likely end up buying a lot of books, and may have to ship back to the U.S so as not to be overweight in our luggage. LPs will likely have to go in luggage, so I am not looking to buy too many!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on May 29, 2019, 07:49:24 AM
It doesn't seem possible that it is coming up forty years that Hogwood and The Academy of Ancient Music recorded a complete set of Mozart Symphonies for L'Oiseau-Lyre. I have always admired the performances and slowly collected them over the years. Due to the Decca New Malden vinyl pressing plant closing down in 1980 and all production moved to Holland it follows, or so I thought, the whole series are in Dutch pressings. I had a double take when last week I happened across volume 3 in New Malden pressings. A lot is said on the differences of sound between Dutch and English pressed Decca issues, something I do not concern myself with as much as I once did, but the difference in presentation here is much larger then I would have imagined. The orchestra is more close-up, more immediate and at the same time seems smaller in number. The A of AM has a distant perspective and the sound reverberant and less clear in the Dutch pressing. I surmise that volume 3 was the first (1979) volume from Hogwood and one of the last to be pressed at New Malden, subsequent pressings of the same set were Dutch. An early pressing run will always result in better sound anyway. Recording venue and production team remained the same for the whole series.

 (https://i.imgur.com/elCe7Fh.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/04Lb3HX.jpg)

Edit: Both sets were made up with the same size orchestra, 9 first violins, 8 second violins, 4 violas, 3 cellos, 2 double basses, 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 3 bassoons, 2 trumpets, 4 horns and timpani.

Most interesting. I have six of those seven box sets in my collection and five of them are Dutch pressings. Coincidentally, the English pressing is Vol. 3.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 29, 2019, 08:06:21 AM
It doesn't seem possible that it is coming up forty years that Hogwood and The Academy of Ancient Music recorded a complete set of Mozart Symphonies for L'Oiseau-Lyre. I have always admired the performances and slowly collected them over the years. Due to the Decca New Malden vinyl pressing plant closing down in 1980 and all production moved to Holland it follows, or so I thought, the whole series are in Dutch pressings. I had a double take when last week I happened across volume 3 in New Malden pressings. A lot is said on the differences of sound between Dutch and English pressed Decca issues, something I do not concern myself with as much as I once did, but the difference in presentation here is much larger then I would have imagined. The orchestra is more close-up, more immediate and at the same time seems smaller in number. The A of AM has a distant perspective and the sound reverberant and less clear in the Dutch pressing. I surmise that volume 3 was the first (1979) volume from Hogwood and one of the last to be pressed at New Malden, subsequent pressings of the same set were Dutch. An early pressing run will always result in better sound anyway. Recording venue and production team remained the same for the whole series.

Hard for me to imagine that changing the pressing plant would alter the apparent recording perspective and make the recording more reverberant. I suspect that those early recordings were just engineered a bit differently.

I have the who series on CD in a big box set and I must say it is the least interesting Mozart series I own. Way to distant and reverberant, fussy playing with weak dynamic contrasts. I can't think of any Mozart I like less. I never heard any of it when it was on LP, however.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: ritter on May 29, 2019, 11:58:07 AM
Paris has the best second hand CD shop I know, Melomania on Boulevard St Germain. If I were you I’d go in there and ask them.

Every Sunday morning there’s a very big flea market close to the Vanves metro station, it’s always full of LPs.

Gibert Jeune in the 5th arrondissement may be worth trying, it’s very close to Melomania in fact.  Again they’re a big academic second hand book shop and I’ve seen CDs there I’m sure - if they don’t have LPs they’ll put you on to good places.
I’ve  never been to Melomania, but it’s been rated very highly by friends of mine.

The FNAC in the Rue de Ternes in the 17ème has an excellent classical section.

Also interesting is La Dame Blanche, 47 Rue de la Montagne Sainte Geneviève, in the 5ème.

I haven’t bought CDs at Gibert Jeune in Paris, but in Lyon they had a good selection of secondhand classical CDs. For books, of course, Gibert Jeune is a must. And then, the Librairie Gallimard on the Blvd. Raspail is a temple for French literature.

Have a good trip!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on May 29, 2019, 12:42:36 PM
Hard for me to imagine that changing the pressing plant would alter the apparent recording perspective and make the recording more reverberant. I suspect that those early recordings were just engineered a bit differently.

I have the who series on CD in a big box set and I must say it is the least interesting Mozart series I own. Way to distant and reverberant, fussy playing with weak dynamic contrasts. I can't think of any Mozart I like less. I never heard any of it when it was on LP, however.

I'm getting the impression you are not keen then.😛

Seriously, up to a point I agree with you.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on June 13, 2019, 02:06:40 AM
Eye watering!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAX-2394-B-S-SAMSON-FRANCOIS-ANDRE-CLUYTENS-RAVEL-PIANO-CONCERTOS-UK-LP-TOP-NM/153522396239?hash=item23bea5dc4f:g:viwAAOSwo5dc~sJa

The seller, Glenn Armstrong is proprietor of the Coup D'Archet record label.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on June 14, 2019, 07:56:05 AM
Eye watering!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAX-2394-B-S-SAMSON-FRANCOIS-ANDRE-CLUYTENS-RAVEL-PIANO-CONCERTOS-UK-LP-TOP-NM/153522396239?hash=item23bea5dc4f:g:viwAAOSwo5dc~sJa

The seller, Glenn Armstrong is proprietor of the Coup D'Archet record label.

WOW!!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on June 17, 2019, 06:38:59 AM
I am told that Yuja Wang is a major artist of the present generation. DG are scheduling this release on vinyl in July.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81By34DOhUL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 03, 2019, 08:34:11 PM
Back from France and found a single LP I wanted in Paris, at Boulinier in the 6th Arr. The prized find is Paul Badura-Skoda playing Beethoven Sonata No. 32, Op. 111 on Opus/Harmonia Mundia 10". I likely could have found additional items if I looked longer, but didn't want to take up too much time record hunting, nor did I want to add more weight to the luggage (incl. books bought over there) we hauled endlessly between planes, trains, buses, rental cars, and up decrepit, narrow, wooden, spiral staircases constructed three centuries ago. Also, at CDG, if your luggage is overweight, the airlines will extract their pound of flesh, and not only in money (fortunately, we avoided the worst of this)!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on July 05, 2019, 11:45:05 PM
Scratching my head a bit with this one. In the 1970's EMI wrongly thinking that quadraphonic sound would be the next big thing released a whole swathe of recordings in this format. Thankfully for them the records were stereo compatible although pressed with four channels. When EMI realized the buying public were not keen on the idea of extra expense of a SQ decoder and two extra speakers EMI quietly reverted back to stereo.

Fremaux's "Le Cid" has long been a demonstration recording par excellence due to vivid sound. It sold well and although plentiful today commands a decent price. Many copies have passed through my hands but I have never seen a quadraphonic issue - until last week! It is my understanding that a four track cannot be applied retrospectively, the process takes place as early as the recording itself and pressing of the "mother". I can only think EMI were pressing records in four channels as early as 1971 or earlier although the records were titled and sold as stereo. 

(https://i.imgur.com/i58GDZ3.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/MzSnfA8.jpg)

   
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on August 18, 2019, 12:06:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lPH2IIV.jpg)

Jokes along the lines of best place for them not allowed. 8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on August 18, 2019, 01:05:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lPH2IIV.jpg)

Jokes along the lines of best place for them not allowed. 8)

We are in the process of decorating at the moment. I wonder what my good lady wife would say if I recommended that as an option. On the other hand......perhaps I will keep my recommendations to myself.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on August 18, 2019, 10:28:45 PM
We are in the process of decorating at the moment. I wonder what my good lady wife would say if I recommended that as an option. On the other hand......perhaps I will keep my recommendations to myself.

Maybe best. ;) There is also the worry that sitting up in bed enjoying a cuppa you find yourself stuck to the headboard by static!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on August 20, 2019, 11:52:52 AM
Maybe best. ;) There is also the worry that sitting up in bed enjoying a cuppa you find yourself stuck to the headboard by static!

Oh no, they would be cleaned every day with a carbon fibre brush and washed once a week on my record cleaning machine  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on September 18, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
Brahms: Violin Concerto.

(https://www.popsike.com/pix/20150921/301746969029.jpg)

During the 1990's Testament released every quarter a facsimile of a recording from the "golden age" through the classical music magazine ICRC as it was called then. All issues are 100% analogue, cut on to lacquer at EMI's Abbey Road and hand pressed on 180 virgin vinyl at the original EMI Hayes pressing plant. At the time they went for £14.95 inclusive of postage.

I collected them all avidly which since has proved a very good investment. Most, although not all are violin concerto recordings. Best in my view is the Kogan Brahms VC which I listened yesterday. An original would cost a small fortune and beyond reach of most (sensible) collectors. The Testament issue sounds superb with a CD-quiet pressing.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on September 19, 2019, 07:21:58 AM
Brahms: Violin Concerto.

(https://www.popsike.com/pix/20150921/301746969029.jpg)

During the 1990's Testament released every quarter a facsimile of a recording from the "golden age" through the classical music magazine ICRC as it was called then. All issues are 100% analogue, cut on to lacquer at EMI's Abbey Road and hand pressed on 180 virgin vinyl at the original EMI Hayes pressing plant. At the time they went for £14.95 inclusive of postage.

I collected them all avidly which since has proved a very good investment. Most, although not all are violin concerto recordings. Best in my view is the Kogan Brahms VC which I listened yesterday. An original would cost a small fortune and beyond reach of most (sensible) collectors. The Testament issue sounds superb with a CD-quiet pressing.

What a nice pension pot for you  8)

Seriously, it is very nice to own something of a unique collection like that.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on September 19, 2019, 10:41:22 PM
What a nice pension pot for you  8)

Seriously, it is very nice to own something of a unique collection like that.

The kids will get any financial gain. The problem, and I'm sure it is for you too, is that any vinyl collection is a pyramid of which the tip is worth serious money the rest in monetary terms is pretty much worthless. When I go to the great listening room in the sky how will my family know which have value? I shudder when I think my record collection could end in landfill.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on September 20, 2019, 07:13:58 AM
The kids will get any financial gain. The problem, and I'm sure it is for you too, is that any vinyl collection is a pyramid of which the tip is worth serious money the rest in monetary terms is pretty much worthless. When I go to the great listening room in the sky how will my family know which have value? I shudder when I think my record collection could end in landfill.

I actually have had this discussion with my daughter. Obviously she is aware of eBay and I am currently logging my collection onto Discogs for her to give her another option. That way I am listing the vast bulk of my collection for her and she can add that tool for the then current value of any item.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on September 20, 2019, 09:11:56 AM
I actually have had this discussion with my daughter. Obviously she is aware of eBay and I am currently logging my collection onto Discogs for her to give her another option. That way I am listing the vast bulk of my collection for her and she can add that tool for the then current value of any item.

You are way ahead of me! I am aware of Discogs, of course, but how can a collection be listed there? Sounds a plan.  8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on September 20, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
You are way ahead of me! I am aware of Discogs, of course, but how can a collection be listed there? Sounds a plan.  8)

Register with Discogs and simply start logging your collection.
If you have any problems or questions do not hesitate to PM me.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on September 20, 2019, 12:27:40 PM
Register with Discogs and simply start logging your collection.
If you have any problems or questions do not hesitate to PM me.

I had no idea.......I will be away for a bit, on return will begin the process. Excellent idea, thanks.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on September 20, 2019, 01:36:41 PM
I had no idea.......I will be away for a bit, on return will begin the process. Excellent idea, thanks.

Cheers and enjoy your trip.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on October 29, 2019, 02:33:27 AM
I have just posted this version of Mozart's Bastien and Bastienne in the Listening Thread


(https://img.discogs.com/CDDQuFbam4nnesohHpHNrOrsxzw=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7651802-1445971040-2353.jpeg.jpg)


The interesting thing is that there is a label misprint with both labels displaying Part 2


(https://img.discogs.com/6T1a_4ZHMaeHzWBlrjGeLne5qO4=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7651802-1445971040-5073.jpeg.jpg)   (https://img.discogs.com/dx23uXxOaCOTktPegkMxYItxYck=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7651802-1445971039-2261.jpeg.jpg)


I wonder if, and at what part of the production process this error was noticed and if it was, was a conscious decision taken to let it go on the basis of cost.

Any other examples of label errors?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Florestan on October 29, 2019, 02:35:10 AM
I have just posted this version of Mozart's Bastien and Bastienne in the Listening Thread


(https://img.discogs.com/CDDQuFbam4nnesohHpHNrOrsxzw=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7651802-1445971040-2353.jpeg.jpg)


The interesting thing is that there is a label misprint with both labels displaying Part 2


(https://img.discogs.com/6T1a_4ZHMaeHzWBlrjGeLne5qO4=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7651802-1445971040-5073.jpeg.jpg)   (https://img.discogs.com/dx23uXxOaCOTktPegkMxYItxYck=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7651802-1445971039-2261.jpeg.jpg)


I wonder if, and at what part of the production process this error was noticed and if it was, was a conscious decision taken to let it go on the basis of cost.

Any other examples of label errors?

The most conspicuous misprint is actually on the cover.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on October 29, 2019, 02:47:36 AM
The most conspicuous misprint is actually on the cover.  :laugh:

I presume that you refer to the and/und issue?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Florestan on October 29, 2019, 02:53:00 AM
I presume that you refer to the and/und issue?

Precisely. And to compound the confusion, they have it right on the labels.  :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: pjme on October 29, 2019, 03:43:39 AM
And Toni Blankenheim is first a bass (baritone) and then a tenor.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on October 29, 2019, 03:53:01 AM
Precisely. And to compound the confusion, they have it right on the labels.  :)

Good spot. I did not notice that one myself.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on October 29, 2019, 03:55:34 AM
And Toni Blankenheim is first a bass (baritone) and then a tenor.

A multi-talented guy  ;D

Wow, more wrong with this one that I had at first thought.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Florestan on October 29, 2019, 03:56:39 AM
And Toni Blankenheim is first a bass (baritone) and then a tenor.

Hah! Well spotted too.

Maybe we should start a thread, "Most Misprinted Artworks and Labels".  :D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on October 30, 2019, 12:57:45 AM
Released by the DG subsidiary Polydor I am fairly certain a Philips UK pressing. Very sloppy.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2019, 03:34:34 AM
I just received this.
I don't even have a functioning turntable  ::)
First LP I've bought in a long time:
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on October 30, 2019, 04:15:28 AM
I just received this.


(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28678.0;attach=60649;image)


I don't even have a functioning turntable  ::)
First LP I've bought in a long time:


There is just a little nagging voice in the back of my mind telling me that just might present a minor problem when you attempt to listen to it Jeffrey  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2019, 03:53:18 AM
There is just a little nagging voice in the back of my mind telling me that just might present a minor problem when you attempt to listen to it Jeffrey  ;D

Thanks Fergus. I've tried playing it on the microwave oven's turntable but without success so far.
 8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on October 31, 2019, 05:25:41 AM
Thanks Fergus. I've tried playing it on the microwave oven's turntable but without success so far.
 8)

Did you try switching on the microwave? Wait, no, don't do that.....  :o

Seriously, though, nice purchase. I would buy it too if I saw it on my continuing searches.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2019, 05:49:57 AM
Did you try switching on the microwave? Wait, no, don't do that.....  :o

Seriously, though, nice purchase. I would buy it too if I saw it on my continuing searches.
:)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on October 31, 2019, 07:59:21 AM
Thanks Fergus. I've tried playing it on the microwave oven's turntable but without success so far.
 8)

Try this Jeffrey. If the cat approves it must be good.

(https://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/UrbanOutfitters/52398849_005_b?$xlarge$&hei=900&qlt=80&fit=constrain)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 01, 2019, 04:02:10 AM
Try this Jeffrey. If the cat approves it must be good.

(https://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/UrbanOutfitters/52398849_005_b?$xlarge$&hei=900&qlt=80&fit=constrain)

Brings scratchy vinyl to a new high low level  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 01, 2019, 08:02:15 AM
Brings scratchy vinyl to a new high low level  ;D

 ;D

It must be said cats (and dusters) with expensive cartridges are not a marriage made in heaven. :o
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 01, 2019, 11:25:14 AM
;D

It must be said cats (and dusters) with expensive cartridges are not a marriage made in heaven. :o

I know of one case where a stylus got snared in the sleeve of a cardigan thereby destroying an expensive cartridge.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on November 02, 2019, 06:59:38 AM
Try this Jeffrey. If the cat approves it must be good.

(https://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/UrbanOutfitters/52398849_005_b?$xlarge$&hei=900&qlt=80&fit=constrain)

I remember when I lived at home with my parents our cat jumped on my turntable whilst a record was playing and went round with it.  :o
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 03, 2019, 01:40:31 AM
I remember when I lived at home with my parents our cat jumped on my turntable whilst a record was playing and went round with it.  :o

I trust you switched to 78 rpm. >:D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 03, 2019, 03:44:16 AM
I trust you switched to 78 rpm. >:D

Evil indeed  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on November 03, 2019, 11:58:26 PM
I trust you switched to 78 rpm. >:D
What a terrible thought - you should be ashamed of yourself Lol!
 8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 09, 2019, 01:15:36 AM
Optional protective clothing for second-hand record collectors.

(https://www.audioasylum.com/usr/5/59400/screen_shot_2019-09-19_at_11.12.21_am.png)
Thanks to Waxxy
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on November 21, 2019, 10:54:30 AM
Optional protective clothing for second-hand record collectors.

(https://www.audioasylum.com/usr/5/59400/screen_shot_2019-09-19_at_11.12.21_am.png)
Thanks to Waxxy
V funny.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on November 24, 2019, 08:27:14 AM
“Still playing LPs? You’re either a clubtastic DJ, an urban hipster or a sweet old duffer.” This is the opening paragraph of an article written by Bryan Appleyard in this week’s Culture magazine with the Sunday Times (page 22) titled Can the Classics Ride the Digital Stream? I asked the wife which she thought I was, she replied “you are not sweet!”. On a more serious note the article makes a case that streaming music could result in the demise of Classical music. The piece rather loses credibility when Appleyard says, I quote “if somebody asks for a Mahler quartet, the algorithm may not know if they want a music group or a track.” I lost interest after this and didn’t bother to read the (long) rest. Think I will keep to LPs and CDs with or without a Mahler quartet.  ???

Edit: A Google search does unearth an early unfinished Piano Quartet from Mahler.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 24, 2019, 08:31:51 AM
Most likely it is a function of ageing eyes in my case but I find certain LP labels difficult to read. I find them dark and fussy. It can sometimes be difficult for me to even determine which is Side 1. Other labels on the other hand are clear as a bell and present their information easily and readily.

I offer two recent examples by way of demonstration and explanation.


(https://img.discogs.com/nqXGMCn9Z5ChcMcy_GhqUhTvc98=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1409377-1396190623-4517.jpeg.jpg)   (https://img.discogs.com/IW6f5qnTQ_wv0R4febNdGSkqg5o=/fit-in/400x424/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4135555-1460245102-9617.jpeg.jpg)


I find the CBS label "fussy" whereas the CfP label is very clear for me. This is obviously a function of the colour contrast.

Do any other vinyl heads have this issue [yet]?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Baron Scarpia on November 24, 2019, 09:10:28 AM
Most likely it is a function of ageing eyes in my case but I find certain LP labels difficult to read. I find them dark and fussy.

I own no vinyl but have the same issue on many CD booklets. Small type in "stylish" combinations of colors with low contrast. Stupid.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on November 24, 2019, 09:24:43 AM
I own no vinyl but have the same issue on many CD booklets. Small type in "stylish" combinations of colors with low contrast. Stupid.

Don't get me started on current CD booklets!!! One almost requires an electron microscope to read some them  >:D   ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 01, 2019, 03:50:46 AM
Collecting vinyl is fun but can be frustrating. A LP can appear pristine and sound like a bowl of rice crispies. Over time with experience a collector learns how to spot clues, and there are many, whether a LP is pre-loved or just second-hand. A sure fire method is collections. If a pre-owned LP has been carefully looked after and played on equipment not causing damage to the vulnerable record groove then there is more then a good chance the rest of the collection would be of similar condition.

    (https://i.imgur.com/Gl8WlDc.jpg)

On a visit to an Oxfam shop I came across a LP with a cover in mint condition. I noticed the previous owner in a neat hand had listed in the inner sleeve not only details of the recording but where and when it was purchased and at what cost. Looking through the rack there were others with the same information. The records did not require any cleaning and play whisper quite. They are literarily "as new". I returned with haste and checked for more with the same inscriptions. I guess a dozen or so including a box set of Martinu symphonies. I commend the previous owner for the fastidious way he has kept his record collection and for what ever reason they arrived at a charity shop - I very much hope it is not the usual reason - he/she can rest assured these records are still giving great pleasure and being looked after the way they are accustomed.   
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 01, 2019, 04:54:14 AM
Collecting vinyl is fun but can be frustrating. A LP can appear pristine and sound like a bowl of rice crispies. Over time with experience a collector learns how to spot clues, and there are many, whether a LP is pre-loved or just second-hand. A sure fire method is collections. If a pre-owned LP has been carefully looked after and played on equipment not causing damage to the vulnerable record groove then there is more then a good chance the rest of the collection would be of similar condition.

    (https://i.imgur.com/Gl8WlDc.jpg)

On a visit to an Oxfam shop I came across a LP with a cover in mint condition. I noticed the previous owner in a neat hand had listed in the inner sleeve not only details of the recording but where and when it was purchased and at what cost. Looking through the rack there were others with the same information. The records did not require any cleaning and play whisper quite. They are literarily "as new". I returned with haste and checked for more with the same inscriptions. I guess a dozen or so including a box set of Martinu symphonies. I commend the previous owner for the fastidious way he has kept his record collection and for what ever reason they arrived at a charity shop - I very much hope it is not the usual reason - he/she can rest assured these records are still giving great pleasure and being looked after the way they are accustomed.

Some years ago I bought a somewhat modest collection of around 500 LPs and many of them were preserved and presented in the way that you describe above. Unfortunately, for me anyway, this is the exception rather than the rule.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 05, 2019, 08:31:14 AM
I cannot believe this announcement from SME! The world has gone mad and Alastair Robertson-Aikman must be turning in his grave!

Unbelievable, and very sad -  https://sme.co.uk/2019/12/03/sme-product-announcement/
 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 05, 2019, 09:23:12 AM
I cannot believe this announcement from SME! The world has gone mad and Alastair Robertson-Aikman must be turning in his grave!

Unbelievable, and very sad -  https://sme.co.uk/2019/12/03/sme-product-announcement/

WOW!! Amazing decision.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 06, 2019, 01:06:03 AM
WOW!! Amazing decision.

Aligreto, I just can't get my head around it! ???
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on December 08, 2019, 07:07:44 AM
Aligreto, I just can't get my head around it! ???

I agree, even for business reasons.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 10, 2019, 07:02:38 AM
Classics on Vinyl on YT worth a look/listen. Lyrita, Bax 5 on outstanding vinyl playback.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoOiV11be6CgesXPN40EPKQ
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 10, 2019, 11:36:58 PM
FLAC-ing my way through this exquisite 4 LP EMI reissue set of Maggie Teyte that has, inexplicably, been sitting on my shelves for many years. I'm sure it's on CD, but I love the beautiful booklet (sized just right for human usage!) that is included in this set. She is one of my favorite singers of all time.

(https://img.discogs.com/PLTRMbRyYkos6Foh08Qn7Ii-PVw=/fit-in/600x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13008371-1552504325-3532.jpeg.jpg)

(not my photo BTW)



Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 11, 2019, 12:56:39 AM
I agree, even for business reasons.

Already started - Music Direct are selling SME 309 I,000$ over list price!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on December 11, 2019, 02:46:49 PM
Classics on Vinyl on YT worth a look/listen. Lyrita, Bax 5 on outstanding vinyl playback.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoOiV11be6CgesXPN40EPKQ

Yes, it's a terrific playback. Thanks for alerting us to it.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 11, 2019, 04:34:10 PM
Aligreto, I just can't get my head around it! ???
It could be that other tonearm manufactures are saturating the market with products equal to or better than the SME examples. Take for instance VPI’s ‘JMW” 10.5 3d printed arm. Walks all over everything SME has to offer. Not that SME is making anything that’s rubbish it’s just that advances in this ancient technology are leaping ahead.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on December 15, 2019, 03:56:49 AM
Yes, it's a terrific playback. Thanks for alerting us to it.

Pleased you enjoyed it, Jeffrey. I did think it rather good and worth posting.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 12, 2020, 06:37:52 AM
Has anyone else here purchased any new LPs lately?  If so, any special finds?   :)

Recent(ish) finds for me:

Martinu Sonatas Nos. 1-3 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91ICqJo4y1L._SL1500_.jpg)
Liszt Sonata in B minor and Schumann Fantasia in C Major with Alicia de Larrocha on London (English pressing)
Hindemith Die 7 Kammermusiken
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91Q53C45BKL._SL1500_.jpg)
Hermann Prey singt Lieder von Carl Maria von Weber on Odeon
Stravinsky Pulcinella and Apollon Musagète
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91roiLCoKKL._SL1500_.jpg)
Stravinsky Le Sacre du Printemps for piano 2 hands on BIS with Dag Achatz
and also his Le Rossignol conducted by him on CBS

What have the rest of you been up to?   :)

Best,

PD

EDIT:  Now if I could just figure out how/where to find images that aren't so huge!   ???

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Papy Oli on February 12, 2020, 07:24:22 AM

EDIT:  Now if I could just figure out how/where to find images that aren't so huge!   ???

You would need to edit the first img tag of each image address to img width=250 between the [ ] or any number to suit. usually 250 or 300 works fine.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91ICqJo4y1L._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 12, 2020, 08:15:10 AM
You would need to edit the first img tag of each image address to img width=250 between the [ ] or any number to suit. usually 250 or 300 works fine.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91ICqJo4y1L._SL1500_.jpg)

Thank you!   ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 12, 2020, 08:27:26 AM
Has anyone else here purchased any new LPs lately?  If so, any special finds?   :)

Recent(ish) finds for me:

Martinu Sonatas Nos. 1-3 (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91ICqJo4y1L._SL1500_.jpg)
Liszt Sonata in B minor and Schumann Fantasia in C Major with Alicia de Larrocha on London (English pressing)
Hindemith Die 7 Kammermusiken
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91Q53C45BKL._SL1500_.jpg)
Hermann Prey singt Lieder von Carl Maria von Weber on Odeon
Stravinsky Pulcinella and Apollon Musagète
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91roiLCoKKL._SL1500_.jpg)
Stravinsky Le Sacre du Printemps for piano 2 hands on BIS with Dag Achatz
and also his Le Rossignol conducted by him on CBS

What have the rest of you been up to?   :)

Best,

PD

EDIT:  Now if I could just figure out how/where to find images that aren't so huge!   ???

Yes, I got a cheapo LP player for Christmas:


(http://)
[/img]
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 12, 2020, 08:33:26 AM
Also these:
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on February 12, 2020, 08:53:54 AM
I know very little of Korngold's music but a fellow member here introduced me extracts from "Die Tote Stadt". I immediately fell in love with the sound world and ordered this set


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vhMAAOSwNXpckNid/s-l1600.jpg)


I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on February 12, 2020, 08:55:51 AM

(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28678.0;attach=62575;image)

That was one of my earliest introductions to Scandanavian Music. Enjoy  8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 12, 2020, 09:49:19 AM
Yes, I got a cheapo LP player for Christmas:



I'm rather envious of your possession of a nice VW album Vandermolen!

What kind of LP player did you get?  Your image didn't take.  And perhaps you could swap it with your daughter (as I hear that she owns a nice one?   ;)

You've been busy buying too!

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 12, 2020, 09:52:55 AM
I know very little of Korngold's music but a fellow member here introduced me extracts from "Die Tote Stadt". I immediately fell in love with the sound world and ordered this set


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vhMAAOSwNXpckNid/s-l1600.jpg)


I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

I haven't listened to any Korngold in ages...must revisit!  By the way, is your avatar's image your lunch or your dinner platter?  Sorry, I couldn't resist!   :D

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 12, 2020, 10:26:10 AM
That was one of my earliest introductions to Scandanavian Music. Enjoy  8)
Thanks Fergus. It's a fabulous disc (both works). Oddly enough I have never been aware that this LP existed. It features two of my favourite 20th Century symphonies in classic recordings. I do own a similar looking LP featuring Rosenberg's fine Symphony No. 6 'Semplice' with Blomdahl's 'Facetter' Symphony - a happy discovery from my early twenties, purchased in Notting Hill Gate in London:
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 12, 2020, 10:28:19 AM
I'm rather envious of your possession of a nice VW album Vandermolen!

What kind of LP player did you get?  Your image didn't take.  And perhaps you could swap it with your daughter (as I hear that she owns a nice one?   ;)

You've been busy buying too!

PD
Yes, my daughter has a very nice German Dual turntable (unused as far as I'm aware). I'm embarrassed to admit, in this company, that my new one is an 'ION' but I have to admit that it's better than expected and I'm having great fun playing LPs after a 30 year or so gap:
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on February 12, 2020, 10:49:10 AM

By the way, is your avatar's image your lunch or your dinner platter?  Sorry, I couldn't resist!   :D

Best wishes,

PD

Both but only at weekends  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on February 12, 2020, 10:53:06 AM
Yes, my daughter has a very nice German Dual turntable (unused as far as I'm aware). I'm embarrassed to admit, in this company, that my new one is an 'ION' but I have to admit that it's better than expected and I'm having great fun playing LPs after a 30 year or so gap:
(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28678.0;attach=62579;image)

Nice to be back handling and playing the Black Stuff I am sure Jeffrey  8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 12, 2020, 02:17:31 PM
Nice to be back handling and playing the Black Stuff I am sure Jeffrey  8)
Very much so Fergus. There is a tactile aspect of retrieving the LP from the inner sleeve and having to turn it over half-way through that I have missed. It's a bit like going back in time.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 13, 2020, 06:23:18 AM
Very much so Fergus. There is a tactile aspect of retrieving the LP from the inner sleeve and having to turn it over half-way through that I have missed. It's a bit like going back in time.
Does yours have an auto-return?  Must admit, that's the one thing that I miss with mine at times!  Pleased to hear that you're using it and enjoying it.   :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Wanderer on February 13, 2020, 06:24:34 AM
I know very little of Korngold's music but a fellow member here introduced me extracts from "Die Tote Stadt". I immediately fell in love with the sound world and ordered this set


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vhMAAOSwNXpckNid/s-l1600.jpg)


I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

You're in for such a treat.  0:)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 13, 2020, 10:24:00 AM
Does yours have an auto-return?  Must admit, that's the one thing that I miss with mine at times!  Pleased to hear that you're using it and enjoying it.   :)

Thank you. No auto-return. You have to lift the needle off with a small lever and manually return it to its resting place. When I was still living at home with my parents my cat once jumped onto the turntable while it was in operation and went whizzing round with the record. I don't think that the LP ever recovered.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on February 13, 2020, 11:38:52 AM
Thank you. No auto-return. You have to lift the needle off with a small lever and manually return it to its resting place. When I was still living at home with my parents my cat once jumped onto the turntable while it was in operation and went whizzing round with the record. I don't think that the LP ever recovered.

Did the cat?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 13, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
Did the cat?
The cat was fine although she looked rather startled - she was very dopey but affectionate. I recently bought a 'toy clockwork mouse' to entertain my present cat. However, when I received it looked more like a large black bubonic-plague rat. When I  first got it going my cat was terrified and flew straight out of the cat flap. My wife was terrified of the 'clockwork mouse' as well.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on February 13, 2020, 12:12:00 PM
The cat was fine although she looked rather startled - she was very dopey but affectionate. I recently bought a 'toy clockwork mouse' to entertain my present cat. However, when I received it looked more like a large black bubonic-plague rat. When I  first got it going my cat was terrified and flew straight out of the cat flap. My wife was terrified of the 'clockwork mouse' as well.

I suspect that she was wondering "What strange animal is that which spins around and around and around?"  Glad that cat was o.k.; a bummer about the LP though....hope that it wasn't a favorite of yours?  Or too soon to have even have been able to figure that out as your beloved launched herself onto it shortly after you had lowered the needle?

And the lengths that we will go to to entertain our 'babies'!   ;D

Best wishes,

PD

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on February 13, 2020, 11:11:14 PM
I suspect that she was wondering "What strange animal is that which spins around and around and around?"  Glad that cat was o.k.; a bummer about the LP though....hope that it wasn't a favorite of yours?  Or too soon to have even have been able to figure that out as your beloved launched herself onto it shortly after you had lowered the needle?

And the lengths that we will go to to entertain our 'babies'!   ;D

Best wishes,

PD

PD
:)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 10, 2020, 07:54:50 AM
I subscribe to the theory that eventually they will always turn up but Lyrita SRCS. 126 has tested this to the limit. Not prepared to pay £50+ on eBay but it has taken a long time coming - over 10 years! At last stumbled across a copy, not cheap or silly money either. The one Lyrita desired above all others and the rarest I believe, so delighted.

(https://i.imgur.com/7SSEebK.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 10, 2020, 09:35:27 AM
I subscribe to the theory that eventually they will always turn up but Lyrita SRCS. 126 has tested this to the limit. Not prepared to pay £50+ on eBay but it has taken a long time coming - over 10 years! At last stumbled across a copy, not cheap or silly money either. The one Lyrita desired above all others and the rarest I believe, so delighted.

(https://i.imgur.com/7SSEebK.jpg)
Congratulations Irons!   :)  Did you find it in a shop or online?  Hope that it's in mint condition and most of all that you enjoy the music!

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 10, 2020, 12:33:11 PM
My replacement turntable turned up today (no pun intended) and this one seems to play at the right speed, also I've noticed that the sound is better quality through headphones. Nice to be playing some LPs again. This evening it was Rawsthorne's Piano Concerto No.2
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 10, 2020, 02:38:59 PM
My replacement turntable turned up today (no pun intended) and this one seems to play at the right speed, also I've noticed that the sound is better quality through headphones. Nice to be playing some LPs again. This evening it was Rawsthorne's Piano Concerto No.2
(http://)
Yeah!  Scary that the first one died so quickly though.  How many months had you had it for?  Hope that this one is sturdier and will be a faithful servant unto you and your LPs.   :)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 10, 2020, 11:26:32 PM
Yeah!  Scary that the first one died so quickly though.  How many months had you had it for?  Hope that this one is sturdier and will be a faithful servant unto you and your LPs.   :)

PD
Thanks PD. Only had it since Christmas but it is a cheap turntable so I'm not expecting Bang and Olufsen. Amazon replaced it immediately and thanks for the good wishes.
Latest acquisition and ancient 10" LP of Robert Simpson's First Symphony:
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 11, 2020, 12:38:28 AM
My replacement turntable turned up today (no pun intended) and this one seems to play at the right speed, also I've noticed that the sound is better quality through headphones. Nice to be playing some LPs again. This evening it was Rawsthorne's Piano Concerto No.2
(http://)

After you said you were ordering I gave the LP a spin. I preferred Lympany's recording of the first concerto.

I have never heard vinyl through headphones.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 11, 2020, 12:53:20 AM
Congratulations Irons!   :)  Did you find it in a shop or online?  Hope that it's in mint condition and most of all that you enjoy the music!

Best wishes,

PD

At an Oxfam store, P. The trouble with Google is everyone has it and they did their homework. But still a bargain and I would willingly have paid more for it.

The condition for both cover and record is as new, plays superbly.

Walter Leigh is not a great loss to music through war as Butterworth was. His music is light and enjoyable if not distinguished. The Harpsichord Concerto is a fine piece though.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 11, 2020, 08:58:18 AM
I subscribe to the theory that eventually they will always turn up but Lyrita SRCS. 126 has tested this to the limit. Not prepared to pay £50+ on eBay but it has taken a long time coming - over 10 years! At last stumbled across a copy, not cheap or silly money either. The one Lyrita desired above all others and the rarest I believe, so delighted.

(https://i.imgur.com/7SSEebK.jpg)

Good for you. It is wonderful when a collector finally tracks down something that they have been hunting for a long time.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 11, 2020, 11:41:13 AM
Good for you. It is wonderful when a collector finally tracks down something that they have been hunting for a long time.
I agree. I also find that Harpsichord Concerto, especially it's slow movement, rather touching. I prefer the Neville Dilkes recording.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 11, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
I agree. I also find that Harpsichord Concerto, especially it's slow movement, rather touching. I prefer the Neville Dilkes recording.

Jeffrey, impressive that Dilkes himself plays the harpsichord part.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 11, 2020, 01:12:28 PM
Jeffrey, impressive that Dilkes himself plays the harpsichord part.
Oh yes, I'd forgotten that Lol. I'm sorry that we don't hear more of Neville Dilkes. His Moeran Symphony is my favourite recording of that great score.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Baron Scarpia on March 11, 2020, 04:26:00 PM
Is this a thread for laments? There is only one piece of vinyl I can think of that I love, and that has never been on CD.

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

I rashly donated it, thinking I had a digital transfer of it on my hard disc. Now I can't find the digital transfer! Gone forever.  :'(

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 11, 2020, 10:20:32 PM
Is this a thread for laments? There is only one piece of vinyl I can think of that I love, and that has never been on CD.

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

I rashly donated it, thinking I had a digital transfer of it on my hard disc. Now I can't find the digital transfer! Gone forever.  :'(

I just misread the title as 'Coronavirus Wien'  :o
My paranoia I suspect.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 12:32:21 AM
I just misread the title as 'Coronavirus Wien'  :o
My paranoia I suspect.

I'm praying that football grounds are closed this weekend. My son is working and I have promised my grandson I will take him. I don't want to go!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 12:37:40 AM
Is this a thread for laments? There is only one piece of vinyl I can think of that I love, and that has never been on CD.

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

I rashly donated it, thinking I had a digital transfer of it on my hard disc. Now I can't find the digital transfer! Gone forever.  :'(

What about all the stuff you haven't heard because it has never been on CD but would love if you did - if you follow my drift  ::)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: (: premont :) on March 12, 2020, 01:58:52 AM

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

This picture is precisely (I can name most of the musicians) how I saw them perform among others Bach's first orchestral suite (two oboes, bassoon, strings and continuo) in 1964. Very nostalgic. Thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: (: premont :) on March 12, 2020, 02:05:13 AM
Most likely it is a function of ageing eyes in my case but I find certain LP labels difficult to read. I find them dark and fussy. It can sometimes be difficult for me to even determine which is Side 1. Other labels on the other hand are clear as a bell and present their information easily and readily.

Not a vinylhead, but I have problems with some CDs for the same reason and particularly problems with the booklets. The letters on the rear side of the LP covers were usually readable.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 03:29:50 AM
Is this a thread for laments? There is only one piece of vinyl I can think of that I love, and that has never been on CD.

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

I rashly donated it, thinking I had a digital transfer of it on my hard disc. Now I can't find the digital transfer! Gone forever.  :'(
Oh, no!  Perhaps you could find a good but inexpensive copy online?  :(

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 03:42:48 AM
I'm praying that football grounds are closed this weekend. My son is working and I have promised my grandson I will take him. I don't want to go!
More and more things/events are being cancelled here in the States Irons; I think that it would be more than fair (particularly knowing how much you love your football--not to mention your grandson) to have a talk with his parents.

Pres. Trump has now even issued a travel ban!   ???

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 04:32:09 AM
Is this a thread for laments? There is only one piece of vinyl I can think of that I love, and that has never been on CD.

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

I rashly donated it, thinking I had a digital transfer of it on my hard disc. Now I can't find the digital transfer! Gone forever.  :'(
I believe that I found the same recording, but different cover here:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/BACH-Concerto-Movements-from-Cantatas-HARNONCOURT-Telefunken-6-41970-LP-NM/121225190858?hash=item1c39959dca:g:blgAAOxyzi9SmIAy

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 12, 2020, 07:41:47 AM
I'm praying that football grounds are closed this weekend. My son is working and I have promised my grandson I will take him. I don't want to go!
My brother, now in his 70s, went to Chelsea v Liverpool about a week ago!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 07:56:22 AM
My brother, now in his 70s, went to Chelsea v Liverpool about a week ago!
I just read that the ATP (men's tennis for those who don't know) has shut things down 'til April 27th.  I expect that the WTA will announce something similar.   :(  I'm sure that it's for the best.  Will be hardest, I think, for the lower ranked players in terms of income.  How they decide rankings and points, let alone whether or not they'll be able to reschedule the events, will be interesting to see!

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 08:14:10 AM
Wimbledon is looking vulnerable this year, P.

I have learnt a painful lesson never clean a cartridge with anything liquid, water or alcohol based.

The good people at Expert Stylus recommended this. Cheap and lasts a lifetime.
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/BERGEON-Bergeon-Professional-Cleaning-Rodico/dp/B008YMGYBU
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 12, 2020, 08:26:16 AM

I have learnt a painful lesson never clean a cartridge with anything liquid, water or alcohol based.

The good people at Expert Stylus recommended this. Cheap and lasts a lifetime.
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/BERGEON-Bergeon-Professional-Cleaning-Rodico/dp/B008YMGYBU

I have not used it but I am considering this stylus cleaning method


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/713EuAL9gzL._SL1500_.jpg)


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004VEORZ0/?coliid=I2QPUCYR8T4O1W&colid=21QG0KG8MTO9O&psc=1
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 08:37:01 AM
Wimbledon is looking vulnerable this year, P.

I have learnt a painful lesson never clean a cartridge with anything liquid, water or alcohol based.

The good people at Expert Stylus recommended this. Cheap and lasts a lifetime.
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/BERGEON-Bergeon-Professional-Cleaning-Rodico/dp/B008YMGYBU
:o :(  I hope that doesn't come to pass.  I did find this article after reading your comment though.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8102009/The-England-Club-cancel-Wimbledon-stage-iconic-event-without-spectators.html

I wonder whether or not that stuff that you use is the same thing that a certain MW from days gone by also used(es)?  I seem to recall him mentioning something along those lines?  How do you use it Irons?  I have some stuff that I've never used but was recommended by my audio guy.  It's by a company called Last...https://thelastfactory.com/product/last-stylus-cleaner/  So far, anyway, I've just used that little black brush that came with my cartridge.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 08:42:20 AM
I have not used it but I am considering this stylus cleaning method


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/713EuAL9gzL._SL1500_.jpg)


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004VEORZ0/?coliid=I2QPUCYR8T4O1W&colid=21QG0KG8MTO9O&psc=1
Interesting, I hadn't heard of that before now.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 12, 2020, 09:35:49 AM
Interesting, I hadn't heard of that before now.

A friend of mine, who has 14,000+ LPs has recommended it to me. I reckon that if it is good enough for him........... ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 10:17:53 AM
A friend of mine, who has 14,000+ LPs has recommended it to me. I reckon that if it is good enough for him........... ;D
14,000+ LPs!!! :o

I suspect that he listens to a number of different types of music?

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 12, 2020, 10:41:32 AM
14,000+ LPs!!! :o

I suspect that he listens to a number of different types of music?

PD

You have no idea!!  ;D

One track from some obscure album was a recording of some guy smashing up plate glass.

He listens to regular stuff also  ;)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 01:47:40 PM
I have not used it but I am considering this stylus cleaning method


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/713EuAL9gzL._SL1500_.jpg)


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004VEORZ0/?coliid=I2QPUCYR8T4O1W&colid=21QG0KG8MTO9O&psc=1

Seems safe which is the main thing. I had the stylus fall of the cantilever of my mono cartridge through using a alcohol based liquid.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
:o :(  I hope that doesn't come to pass.  I did find this article after reading your comment though.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8102009/The-England-Club-cancel-Wimbledon-stage-iconic-event-without-spectators.html

I wonder whether or not that stuff that you use is the same thing that a certain MW from days gone by also used(es)?  I seem to recall him mentioning something along those lines?  How do you use it Irons?  I have some stuff that I've never used but was recommended by my audio guy.  It's by a company called Last...https://thelastfactory.com/ ŷproduct/last-stylus-cleaner/  So far, anyway, I've just used that little black brush that came with my cartridge.

I think it was me who put MW on to it, P.
The Bergeon is used as a blob about the size of a pea. After every side with amplifier on gently move the blob to the stylus until hearing a click through speakers and that’s it done. I have the blob stuck to the handle of one of those small stylus brushes.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 12, 2020, 04:55:37 PM

The Bergeon is used as a blob about the size of a pea. After every side with amplifier on gently move the blob to the stylus until hearing a click through speakers and that’s it done. I have the blob stuck to the handle of one of those small stylus brushes.
Oh, neat!  No concerns re speakers though?  My thinking:  turn the volume off and run it through the 'stuff'.  And how do you keep it stuck to the handle and also not have the stylus hit the plastic of the handle?  A bit confused here....And do you use a brush to dust off any remnants from the 'stuff'?

Is the Last product that I mentioned in line with products that you've had problems with in the past?  Not certain what the  base component is of it. 

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 13, 2020, 01:31:01 AM
Oh, neat!  No concerns re speakers though?  My thinking:  turn the volume off and run it through the 'stuff'.  And how do you keep it stuck to the handle and also not have the stylus hit the plastic of the handle?  A bit confused here....And do you use a brush to dust off any remnants from the 'stuff'?

Is the Last product that I mentioned in line with products that you've had problems with in the past?  Not certain what the  base component is of it. 

Best,

PD

No, speakers and system must be on at normal level. Without that you may go in too hard and damage the stylus. Easier to do then explain. There is no residue, that is the beauty of the stuff and it collects dust like a magnet. Watch repairers use it for cleaning the workings of watches. Has a consistency of blutack so stays where you place it.

Last has been around for years but not used it. Is it a liquid? If so I would not let it near any cartridge I own.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 13, 2020, 05:22:26 AM
No, speakers and system must be on at normal level. Without that you may go in too hard and damage the stylus. Easier to do then explain. There is no residue, that is the beauty of the stuff and it collects dust like a magnet. Watch repairers use it for cleaning the workings of watches. Has a consistency of blutack so stays where you place it.

Last has been around for years but not used it. Is it a liquid? If so I would not let it near any cartridge I own.
Yes, it's a liquid which comes with its own brush.  I provided a link to it a few postings ago.  Thank you for the photo and info!

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 14, 2020, 07:01:37 PM
Can one of the cognoscenti tell me the difference between these two boxes (Jorg Demus playing WTC on Intercord) ??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/F059-Demus-Bach-The-well-tempered-Clavier-Vol-2-Intercord-3-x-LP-Stereo/293052897874?_trkparms=aid%3D555021%26algo%3DPL.SIMRVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D1f3069c8c49e42a3b1cc1aa784f66fa2%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D301711604037%26itm%3D293052897874%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplRVIAMLv5WebWithPLRVIOnTopCombiner&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rsQAAOSwR55Zl~YT/s-l1600.jpg)


https://www.ebay.com/itm/F034-Demus-Bach-Vol-2-The-well-tempered-Clavier-3-x-LP-Intercord-Stereo/293052196806?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D9efe56c490424512aa773cd8a212c675%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D293052897874%26itm%3D293052196806%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV1Filter&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iTYAAOSwbElZblsR/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 15, 2020, 01:20:45 AM
Can one of the cognoscenti tell me the difference between these two boxes (Jorg Demus playing WTC on Intercord) ??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/F059-Demus-Bach-The-well-tempered-Clavier-Vol-2-Intercord-3-x-LP-Stereo/293052897874?_trkparms=aid%3D555021%26algo%3DPL.SIMRVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D1f3069c8c49e42a3b1cc1aa784f66fa2%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D301711604037%26itm%3D293052897874%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplRVIAMLv5WebWithPLRVIOnTopCombiner&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rsQAAOSwR55Zl~YT/s-l1600.jpg)


https://www.ebay.com/itm/F034-Demus-Bach-Vol-2-The-well-tempered-Clavier-3-x-LP-Intercord-Stereo/293052196806?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D9efe56c490424512aa773cd8a212c675%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D293052897874%26itm%3D293052196806%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV1Filter&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iTYAAOSwbElZblsR/s-l1600.jpg)

Unable to offer much advice but I would certainly plump for the cheaper set. I have a few Intercord issues and the German pressings are very good indeed. I don't think you can go wrong here.

They are licensed from Westminster   https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Demus.htm
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 19, 2020, 01:49:05 AM
Found this over in Vinyl Asylum. The well known makers of turntables, Project have started to produce  LP records, a most surprising development. Difficult to navigate, and as for price and availability little information forthcoming, but this does look tempting.   https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/wiener-philharmoniker-herbert-von-karajan-richard-strauss/
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 19, 2020, 05:07:20 AM
Found this over in Vinyl Asylum. The well known makers of turntables, Project have started to produce  LP records, a most surprising development. Difficult to navigate, and as for price and availability little information forthcoming, but this does look tempting.   https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/wiener-philharmoniker-herbert-von-karajan-richard-strauss/
Neat!  One question that does come to mind:  what kind of condition are the original tapes in these days?

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 19, 2020, 05:50:05 AM
Found this over in Vinyl Asylum. The well known makers of turntables, Project have started to produce  LP records, a most surprising development. Difficult to navigate, and as for price and availability little information forthcoming, but this does look tempting.   https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/wiener-philharmoniker-herbert-von-karajan-richard-strauss/

Very interesting as a life long advocate of the relationship between von Karajan and the music of Strauss.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 19, 2020, 07:58:17 AM
Very interesting as a life long advocate of the relationship between von Karajan and the music of Strauss.

 Karajan, Strauss and Decca is a heady mix. There is another issue of a double LP of Muti conducting Mozart symphonies. I do fancy the Karajan though.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 19, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Unable to offer much advice but I would certainly plump for the cheaper set. I have a few Intercord issues and the German pressings are very good indeed. I don't think you can go wrong here.

They are licensed from Westminster   https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Demus.htm

Thanks for your thoughts. My interest in buying any kind of goodies has kind of evaporated with the events of the last week or so. WE are OK on money for the time being (although my wife's place of employment is shuttered for the time being), but I am being very careful because obviously everything is up in the air at this point. Also cancelled our upcoming week's vacation to SF Bay Area and Central Coast--sucks, but these are first world problems in the grand scheme of things. ANd, I have a ton of unheard disks (CDs, LPs) lying around the house.

I hope all you other vinyl lovers are doing OK!!

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 25, 2020, 12:37:36 AM
Don't see many around these days but some good stuff released on the EMI Greensleeve mid-price label. Pretty labels too.

(https://i.imgur.com/V8ELcRE.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 25, 2020, 04:01:00 AM
Don't see many around these days but some good stuff released on the EMI Greensleeve mid-price label. Pretty labels too.

(https://i.imgur.com/V8ELcRE.jpg)
Cool artwork!  ;D  Thank you for sharing that Irons!

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2020, 07:43:22 AM
Don't see many around these days but some good stuff released on the EMI Greensleeve mid-price label. Pretty labels too.

(https://i.imgur.com/V8ELcRE.jpg)
I remember that fine old LP!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 25, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Where does HMV Greensleeve fit into the HMV pantheon?

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 26, 2020, 12:53:35 AM
Where does HMV Greensleeve fit into the HMV pantheon?

Trust you are keeping well, P.

A mid-price label I would guess the vinyl equivalent of the "British Composers" series EMI released on CD. A mixture of new releases and re-issues made up the catalogue. I have noticed the prices hold up well, for example the Haendel VC of Britten/Walton is just as desirable on Greensleeves as full price EMI. Does not delve into the repertoire as Lyrita but masses of good recordings can be had. The series lasted a long time, right up to the "Large dog" period on the cusp of CD, see below.

 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on March 26, 2020, 01:55:44 AM
Trust you are keeping well, P.

A mid-price label I would guess the vinyl equivalent of the "British Composers" series EMI released on CD. A mixture of new releases and re-issues made up the catalogue. I have noticed the prices hold up well, for example the Haendel VC of Britten/Walton is just as desirable on Greensleeves as full price EMI. Does not delve into the repertoire as Lyrita but masses of good recordings can be had. The series lasted a long time, right up to the "Large dog" period on the cusp of CD, see below.

 

Thanks for that info - the posting had me wondering. I have Boult's 1968 recording of RVW's A Sea Symphony on a HMV Greensleeves (subtitles English Heritage Series ) LP. The date on the record label is 1981 so it is a reissue. Off hand, it is the only HMVG  disc I think I have.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 26, 2020, 06:00:37 AM
Thank you for the info Irons.   :)

Trying hard to hang onto my sanity--like everyone else these days.   ::)  Walks (often) and looking for 'my hawk' help.

All the best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 26, 2020, 07:49:18 AM
Thanks for that info - the posting had me wondering. I have Boult's 1968 recording of RVW's A Sea Symphony on a HMV Greensleeves (subtitles English Heritage Series ) LP. The date on the record label is 1981 so it is a reissue. Off hand, it is the only HMVG  disc I think I have.

That follows English Heritage Series used for later issues (your Sea Symphony and my Delius). The earlier issues had a green band running along the top of cover. Interesting you have RVW 1st on Greensleeves, I do not recall ever seeing any other of his symphonies on the label.   
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Biffo on March 26, 2020, 08:58:31 AM
That follows English Heritage Series used for later issues (your Sea Symphony and my Delius). The earlier issues had a green band running along the top of cover. Interesting you have RVW 1st on Greensleeves, I do not recall ever seeing any other of his symphonies on the label.

The others of that Boult cycle I have (Nos 2, 5, 6 & 7) I bought as full-priced LPs. I don't recall seeing many HMV Greensleeves issues at all.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 26, 2020, 11:20:34 AM
The others of that Boult cycle I have (Nos 2, 5, 6 & 7) I bought as full-priced LPs. I don't recall seeing many HMV Greensleeves issues at all.

Recordings of great authority. Putting my neck on the block, 6 and 9 are indispensable.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 27, 2020, 03:31:04 AM
Recordings of great authority. Putting my neck on the block, 6 and 9 are indispensable.
I wouldn't dispute that.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 28, 2020, 08:03:21 AM
I have just posted this box set in the Listening Thread but I feel that it is one that is appropriate for here also....


(https://img.discogs.com/vNkxGCbfw45V_fWqKpRKTR6lM5Q=/fit-in/600x589/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9922613-1488618039-4235.jpeg.jpg)


I like it because it is a big, hinged box containing 8 LP's. What I like about it most is the very tactile nature of it. It is a cloth woven, thick cardboard box, very nice to feel and to touch. It also contains an excellent cycle.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Que on March 28, 2020, 11:30:35 AM
Is this a thread for laments? There is only one piece of vinyl I can think of that I love, and that has never been on CD.

(https://www.fineday.co.jp/goodsimage/l/06/l06030004.jpg)

I rashly donated it, thinking I had a digital transfer of it on my hard disc. Now I can't find the digital transfer! Gone forever.  :'(

https://www.discogs.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Nikolaus-Harnoncourt-Concentus-Musicus-Wien-Sinfonia/release/6992790

Last reissue in 1983:
https://www.discogs.com/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Nikolaus-Harnoncourt-Concentus-Musicus-Wien-Sinfonia/release/7051024



Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 29, 2020, 02:31:14 AM
Currently Playing:
(http://)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 29, 2020, 02:41:02 AM
Currently Playing:
(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28678.0;attach=63434;image)

Small coincidence as I am [slowly] making my way through a set from the same edition


(https://www.popsike.com/pix/20110412/400209241585.jpg)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 29, 2020, 03:14:05 AM
Small coincidence as I am [slowly] making my way through a set from the same edition


(https://www.popsike.com/pix/20110412/400209241585.jpg)
Interesting indeed Fergus.

Now playing:
(http://)
I'm pleased to report that my replacement turntable plays at the right speed!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 29, 2020, 03:40:33 AM

I'm pleased to report that my replacement turntable plays at the right speed!

Yes, I definitely find that helps a lot  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 29, 2020, 07:00:41 AM
I'm pleased to report that my replacement turntable plays at the right speed!

Hurrah!   ;D
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: vandermolen on March 29, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
Yes, I definitely find that helps a lot  ;)  ;D

Yes, makes a big difference  ;D
And thanks to PD too  :)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 29, 2020, 06:33:42 PM
Flac-ed this today, a very beautiful recording in superb Westminster sound quality.

(http://trmsolutions.co.kr/music/westminster/w-images/xwn18398s.jpg)


I only have three clean LPs left in my stack. My audio dealer--whose Keith Monks machine I use--is closed for obvious reasons, so I am contemplating buying the entry-level VPI. At 600$, these are supposedly bullet-proof and will last forever. (I had a Nitty Gritty ages, ages ago, but it was kind of a POS and stopped working after a couple years.)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on March 29, 2020, 11:39:27 PM
Flac-ed this today, a very beautiful recording in superb Westminster sound quality.

(http://trmsolutions.co.kr/music/westminster/w-images/xwn18398s.jpg)


I only have three clean LPs left in my stack. My audio dealer--whose Keith Monks machine I use--is closed for obvious reasons, so I am contemplating buying the entry-level VPI. At 600$, these are supposedly bullet-proof and will last forever. (I had a Nitty Gritty ages, ages ago, but it was kind of a POS and stopped working after a couple years.)

This may be worth checking out  https://www.whathifi.com/news/pro-ject-launches-two-new-record-cleaners-to-keep-your-vinyl-healthy
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 30, 2020, 05:34:08 AM
Flac-ed this today, a very beautiful recording in superb Westminster sound quality.

(http://trmsolutions.co.kr/music/westminster/w-images/xwn18398s.jpg)


I only have three clean LPs left in my stack. My audio dealer--whose Keith Monks machine I use--is closed for obvious reasons, so I am contemplating buying the entry-level VPI. At 600$, these are supposedly bullet-proof and will last forever. (I had a Nitty Gritty ages, ages ago, but it was kind of a POS and stopped working after a couple years.)
I couldn't see your image on your original post, but I was able to copy the link and see it there (interesting?!).  Bet that it's a neat recording!  I love the Dumky.   :)

I have an Okki Nokki cleaner which I really like.  Looking at their website, I see that they have a couple of new versions.  This is the one that I own.  It's very sturdily built (=heavy to move) but does a quite decent job.  https://www.tonepublications.com/review/the-okki-nokki-record-cleaner/
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on March 31, 2020, 02:04:36 AM
I also have had an Okki Nokki RCM for some years now and find it quite effective.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 31, 2020, 12:02:11 PM
I also have had an Okki Nokki RCM for some years now and find it quite effective.
Do you, like me, also wear ear protection when you use it?  I grab the same heavy-duty ear protection headset that I wear when I do things like using my weed whacker! 

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 31, 2020, 08:46:57 PM
Thanks folks for the record cleaning machine rec's. Both the Project and Okki Nokki look really good being more compact and cheaper than the VPI (now $800 not 600!!). I just wonder about long-term reliability/longevity, as people I know with the VPIs have had them for nearly 30 years, and they are apparently bulletproof.

I am still holding off for now, but will keep in mind if things don't return to some semblance of normal in a few months. 
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on March 31, 2020, 08:50:17 PM
...neat...

You sound like a member of my generation (born in the 70s!)

Do the phrases "Now you're cookin' with gas!" and/or "Lookie-Loo" mean anything to you?  8)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 01, 2020, 04:03:38 AM
You sound like a member of my generation (born in the 70s!)

Do the phrases "Now you're cookin' with gas!" and/or "Lookie-Loo" mean anything to you?  8)
:-[ ;)
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: aligreto on April 01, 2020, 04:49:27 AM
Do you, like me, also wear ear protection when you use it?  I grab the same heavy-duty ear protection headset that I wear when I do things like using my weed whacker! 

PD

Its not too bad but I don't really use it that often. I clean in batches rather than continuously and a lot of mine are done now..
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 03, 2020, 12:00:29 AM
Recordings from behind the old "Iron Curtain" are a treasure trove for collectors of vinyl and surprisingly they are readily available in the West. Possibly over-production by pressing plants led to dumping in the West.

Hungarian, Hungaroton/Qualiton with their distinctive yellow labels - I have never seen any other colour - are excellent pressings. This label served the rich legacy of the music of Hungary well. Hungaroton released every scrap of music composed by Bartok on LP for example.

(https://i.imgur.com/cslbfga.jpg)

 Kodaly too is well served and typically not only the popular works. I am particularly impressed by Dances of Marosszék a rondo of fire-cracker and contemplative dances shaped into a whole.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 03, 2020, 05:57:36 AM
Recordings from behind the old "Iron Curtain" are a treasure trove for collectors of vinyl and surprisingly they are readily available in the West. Possibly over-production by pressing plants led to dumping in the West.

Hungarian, Hungaroton/Qualiton with their distinctive yellow labels - I have never seen any other colour - are excellent pressings. This label served the rich legacy of the music of Hungary well. Hungaroton released every scrap of music composed by Bartok on LP for example.

(https://i.imgur.com/cslbfga.jpg)

 Kodaly too is well served and typically not only the popular works. I am particularly impressed by Dances of Marosszék a rondo of fire-cracker and contemplative dances shaped into a whole.
I envy your access to Hungaroton!  I snap them up (either CD or LP) when I come across them.  I know that Qualiton was their importer here in the States, but did they also have their own label?

Any favorites of theirs Irons?  And any ones that you would consider not-that-thrilled-with/'duds' in terms of either the music and/or the performances?

Best wishes from her living room,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 04, 2020, 12:40:17 AM
I envy your access to Hungaroton!  I snap them up (either CD or LP) when I come across them.  I know that Qualiton was their importer here in the States, but did they also have their own label?

Any favorites of theirs Irons?  And any ones that you would consider not-that-thrilled-with/'duds' in terms of either the music and/or the performances?

Best wishes from her living room,

PD

And best wishes from mine to yours, P.

Information on labels from the Soviet bloc is hard to come by (with the exception of Supraphon). You do pick up snippets and get some idea collecting them over the years but most is (educated) guess work. I am of the view that Qualiton and Hungaroton are the same. During the late 1970's or early 80's the Qualiton name was dropped. All the labels in the bloc were state owned and run, of course.

My rule of thumb is that the results of the recording of large-scale orchestras on all labels are variable (with one exception which will post later). I have puzzled for years how can it be that some are excellent and others are poor. Where Hungaroton come into their own is chamber and instrumental.

(https://i.imgur.com/5DpA1eL.jpg)

Many years ago I read an article which is so true. The Soviets allowed only a tiny proportion of a vast pool of gifted artists exposure in the West. Just because the names are unknown to us does not reflect how good they are. Hearing Mihaly Bacher  playing Beethoven Op.32 came as a revelation, a recording I treasure.

Stay safe.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 04, 2020, 05:20:29 AM
And best wishes from mine to yours, P.

Information on labels from the Soviet bloc is hard to come by (with the exception of Supraphon). You do pick up snippets and get some idea collecting them over the years but most is (educated) guess work. I am of the view that Qualiton and Hungaroton are the same. During the late 1970's or early 80's the Qualiton name was dropped. All the labels in the bloc were state owned and run, of course.

My rule of thumb is that the results of the recording of large-scale orchestras on all labels are variable (with one exception which will post later). I have puzzled for years how can it be that some are excellent and others are poor. Where Hungaroton come into their own is chamber and instrumental.

(https://i.imgur.com/5DpA1eL.jpg)

Many years ago I read an article which is so true. The Soviets allowed only a tiny proportion of a vast pool of gifted artists exposure in the West. Just because the names are unknown to us does not reflect how good they are. Hearing Mihaly Bacher  playing Beethoven Op.32 came as a revelation, a recording I treasure.

Stay safe.
Hi Irons,

I found this on Hungaroton's website:

"About the Publisher


Hungarian Record Productions (MHV), the predecessor of Hungaroton Records, was founded in 1951 by the Hungarian state. It followed private-owned publishers previously owned by Hungarian, later by international companies, as a monopoly. From that time on almost only socialist countries brands (first of all Melodia, Supraphon and Eterna) meant competition for the Hungarian company for almost four decades long in Hungary. As a result of MHV’s market position the whole Hungarian classical and pop music, even the best actors made their records at MHV. The archive counted a valuable set of ten thousand records.


Export started to grow stronger from the mid-60s, the brand name Qualiton was changed to Hungaroton. Qualiton remained the brand name for Hungarian music, Gipsy music and operetta. Later from the 1970s in terms of some internal commercialization individual pop music brands (Pepita, Bravó, Krém) were set up within the company. The 1970s and 1980s meant the Golden Age. The most popular pop singers and pop groups easily reached the then awarded Gold Record after one hundred records were sold. Classical records were sold all over the world in large numbers thanks to their excellent art and technical qualities and their relatively low price. Although pop music made more money, convertible currency coming from classical music exportations covered the price of imported raw materials.


Liberalization of the national market in 1988 put a halt to this. Western pop music records and talents of classical music that used to be almost inaccessible became available overnight. The turnover of Hungaroton started to decrease and on top of that repayment of the bank loans got for the construction of the record factory and warehouse in Dorog. These two pressures did almost shatter Hungaroton Hungarian Record Productions. Just before the company holding this name ceased its operations via liquidations, publishing activities were continued in different new companies. From 1992 pop music under the name of Hungaroton Gong, classical and folk music, literature, tale and other genres from 1993 under the name of Hungaroton in two separate limited liability companies.


Following long arrangements Hungaroton Records were privatized in 1995. The state required golden share in the privatized company in order to be able to control the archive, so it set up Hungaroton Music Rt. that had a share in the limited liability companies. The public limited company was privatized when the two limited companies results were going up. Hungaroton became a member of the Fotex Group and being in Hungarian ownership spared it from peculiar difficulties of multinational companies.


Classic and Gong were merged in 1998 and became Hungaroton Records Publishing Kft. The company is merged into Fotexnet Kft. on 1st January 2013 holding naturally both its publishing activity and its brand name. Its catalogue being present on the market includes a total of more than two thousand five hundred recordings of classical and pop music. Records earlier only available on Bakelite or cassette are being digitalized. These albums are available at Hungaroton Music Store an on iTunes.


Hungaroton’s classical music artist team includes names of the past along with today’s illustrious and future’s promising talents, i.e. pianists: Annie Fischer, Tamás Vásáry, Péter Frankl, Ilona Prunyi, Zoltán Kocsis, Dezső Ránki, András Schiff, Gergely Bogányi, Alex Szilasi and Tihamér Hlavacsek; conductors: János Ferencsik, Tamás Vásáry, Iván Fischer, János Kovács, Zoltán Kocsis, György Vashegyi; violinists: Dénes Kovács, György Pauk, Vilmos Szabadi, Barnabás Kelemen, Antal Szalai; string-quartets: Tátrai, Bartók, Takács and Auer Quartets; chamber orchestras Liszt Ferenc, Erkel and Erdődy. A few prestigious artists who had been working abroad with exclusive contracts have recently started new records at Hungaroton (Kocsis, Schiff and Vásáry).


Hungaroton excels in world premiere publications and has a strong early music profile sealed with such names as Malcolm Bilson, Miklós Spányi, Anikó Horváth, Anneke Boeke, Benedek Csalog, Ildikó Kertész, Balázs Máté, Pál Németh, Róbert Mandel and several Hungarian and foreign colleagues. World famous Amadinda Percussion Group, a Cantemus and Pro Musica Girls’Choirs, the Hungarian National Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir make their records at Hungaroton.


The publisher’s classical music profile includes never before recorded repertoire and outstanding works of Hungarian music. Just because of the aforementioned, Hungaroton Records uses the pitch "publisher of revelations". The "Bartók New Series", the second edition set of the composer has been experiencing significant success (the first edition was published by Hungaroton, too). Hungaroton’s set of Kodály has been started as well. Furthermore, sets concentrating on a given genre have been published selecting from the work of Jenő Hubay, László Lajtha and Leó Weiner.


In pop music life’s work of everlasting Hungarian stars is concentrated at Hungaroton as follows Zsuzsa Koncz, György Korda, Péter Máté, Pál Szécsi, Bikini, Illés, Omega, Neoton Família, Benkó Dixieland Band. In the genre of cabaret and pop music Géza Hofi represents the flagship. Children’s favourite is Judit Halász either she sings, tells a story or guides them through the world of operas. When talking about folk music Márta Sebestyén and Kati Szvorák singers and Jánosi, Muzsikás and Vujicsics Group have to be highlighted. The best of the bests are queued here in the genre of Hungarian song, Gipsy music as well, e.g. Lakatos, Sánta and Kállai Kiss dynasties, the Budapest Gypsy Symphony Orchestra, Rajkó Band (Gipsy Orchestra) and dulcimer players such as Oszkár Ökrös, Apollónia Kovács, Erzsébet Talabér, Margit Bangó, Károly Solti and singing Ferenc Bessenyei who leads us to actors of literature discs: Zoltán Latinovits, László Mensáros, Imre Sinkovits, Irén Psota, Éva Ruttkay, Klári Tolnay and relics quarding own poetry recitals of poets.


Classical music recordings of the publisher have regularly received prizes at international competitions. In addition to awards by Diapason, Goldberg, Le Monde de la Musique, Pizzicato and other classical music journals, other awards are worth special mention, such as the three MIDEM-awards for the Dohnányi violin concertos (1999), the Bartók Complete Works (2002) and the first SACD of the Bartók New Series (The Wooden Prince, Kossuth – symphonic poem), as well as the Classical Internet Awards prize (2004) for an SACD conducted by Zoltán Kocsis. The most recent CD of the Bartók New Series comprising the violin sonatas performed by Barnabás Kelemen and Zoltán Kocsis won the „Recording of the Year” prize in the 2013 competition of Gramophone Awards in the chamber music category. Hungaroton released Beethoven’s complete piano concertos in 2015 performed by Dénes Várjon and Concerto Budapest conducted by András Keller; the recording won the Gramofon Prize a year later in the category “Best Hungarian Classical Music CD”. Another album entitled “Bartók the pianist” was also picked as “Best Historical Recording of theYear” and at the International Classical Music Awards (ICMA) voting in 2017; it was among the three top choices in the historical category. The Hungaroton label has produced several nominees during the past three years for ICMA, and two of its collections (Bartók the Pianist, 2017, - Best Historical Collection of the Year” category and The Great Book of Flute Sonatas, 2019 - „Best Collection” category) have made it to the final three nominees."

It's here:  https://hungarotonmusic.com/cegtortenet.html

A bit confusing to read (perhaps something lost in translation?).  They don't explain where/how/why Qualiton came into existence? It sounds like it might have initially been used as the label name for exports?

In any event, thank you for your thoughts and insight and I'll keep an eye out for Bacher!   :) :)

Must get in a walk today to keep my sanity.  Busy at the allotment?

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 04, 2020, 07:21:47 AM
That is most interesting P, and many thanks for taking the trouble to post. It is a fact that all record companies, and not only from that part of the world, do not follow a logical course. The article's answer to the Hungaroton/Qualiton conundrum sort of makes sense as the Tatrai Quartet recorded the complete Haydn SQ's and some boxes are on H and some on Q. I also notice that the Bartok Quartet have their early SQ set on Qualiton and middle SQ's on Hungaroton but the article states that Qualiton was for Hungarian music only, which Beethoven is plainly not. On the other hand, the names could have switched between the two sets, so yes, you probably have come up with the answer.
The US importer used the name Qualiton for recordings from Hungary but that is different and not to do with above.

Without the allotment I would be climbing up the wall by now! A beautiful sunny day which is the last thing the Government wants.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 04, 2020, 08:14:19 AM
Hi Irons,

I found this on Hungaroton's website:

"About the Publisher


Hungarian Record Productions (MHV), the predecessor of Hungaroton Records, was founded in 1951 by the Hungarian state. It followed private-owned publishers previously owned by Hungarian, later by international companies, as a monopoly. From that time on almost only socialist countries brands (first of all Melodia, Supraphon and Eterna) meant competition for the Hungarian company for almost four decades long in Hungary. As a result of MHV’s market position the whole Hungarian classical and pop music, even the best actors made their records at MHV. The archive counted a valuable set of ten thousand records.


Export started to grow stronger from the mid-60s, the brand name Qualiton was changed to Hungaroton. Qualiton remained the brand name for Hungarian music, Gipsy music and operetta. Later from the 1970s in terms of some internal commercialization individual pop music brands (Pepita, Bravó, Krém) were set up within the company. The 1970s and 1980s meant the Golden Age. The most popular pop singers and pop groups easily reached the then awarded Gold Record after one hundred records were sold. Classical records were sold all over the world in large numbers thanks to their excellent art and technical qualities and their relatively low price. Although pop music made more money, convertible currency coming from classical music exportations covered the price of imported raw materials.


Liberalization of the national market in 1988 put a halt to this. Western pop music records and talents of classical music that used to be almost inaccessible became available overnight. The turnover of Hungaroton started to decrease and on top of that repayment of the bank loans got for the construction of the record factory and warehouse in Dorog. These two pressures did almost shatter Hungaroton Hungarian Record Productions. Just before the company holding this name ceased its operations via liquidations, publishing activities were continued in different new companies. From 1992 pop music under the name of Hungaroton Gong, classical and folk music, literature, tale and other genres from 1993 under the name of Hungaroton in two separate limited liability companies.


Following long arrangements Hungaroton Records were privatized in 1995. The state required golden share in the privatized company in order to be able to control the archive, so it set up Hungaroton Music Rt. that had a share in the limited liability companies. The public limited company was privatized when the two limited companies results were going up. Hungaroton became a member of the Fotex Group and being in Hungarian ownership spared it from peculiar difficulties of multinational companies.


Classic and Gong were merged in 1998 and became Hungaroton Records Publishing Kft. The company is merged into Fotexnet Kft. on 1st January 2013 holding naturally both its publishing activity and its brand name. Its catalogue being present on the market includes a total of more than two thousand five hundred recordings of classical and pop music. Records earlier only available on Bakelite or cassette are being digitalized. These albums are available at Hungaroton Music Store an on iTunes.


Hungaroton’s classical music artist team includes names of the past along with today’s illustrious and future’s promising talents, i.e. pianists: Annie Fischer, Tamás Vásáry, Péter Frankl, Ilona Prunyi, Zoltán Kocsis, Dezső Ránki, András Schiff, Gergely Bogányi, Alex Szilasi and Tihamér Hlavacsek; conductors: János Ferencsik, Tamás Vásáry, Iván Fischer, János Kovács, Zoltán Kocsis, György Vashegyi; violinists: Dénes Kovács, György Pauk, Vilmos Szabadi, Barnabás Kelemen, Antal Szalai; string-quartets: Tátrai, Bartók, Takács and Auer Quartets; chamber orchestras Liszt Ferenc, Erkel and Erdődy. A few prestigious artists who had been working abroad with exclusive contracts have recently started new records at Hungaroton (Kocsis, Schiff and Vásáry).


Hungaroton excels in world premiere publications and has a strong early music profile sealed with such names as Malcolm Bilson, Miklós Spányi, Anikó Horváth, Anneke Boeke, Benedek Csalog, Ildikó Kertész, Balázs Máté, Pál Németh, Róbert Mandel and several Hungarian and foreign colleagues. World famous Amadinda Percussion Group, a Cantemus and Pro Musica Girls’Choirs, the Hungarian National Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir make their records at Hungaroton.


The publisher’s classical music profile includes never before recorded repertoire and outstanding works of Hungarian music. Just because of the aforementioned, Hungaroton Records uses the pitch "publisher of revelations". The "Bartók New Series", the second edition set of the composer has been experiencing significant success (the first edition was published by Hungaroton, too). Hungaroton’s set of Kodály has been started as well. Furthermore, sets concentrating on a given genre have been published selecting from the work of Jenő Hubay, László Lajtha and Leó Weiner.


In pop music life’s work of everlasting Hungarian stars is concentrated at Hungaroton as follows Zsuzsa Koncz, György Korda, Péter Máté, Pál Szécsi, Bikini, Illés, Omega, Neoton Família, Benkó Dixieland Band. In the genre of cabaret and pop music Géza Hofi represents the flagship. Children’s favourite is Judit Halász either she sings, tells a story or guides them through the world of operas. When talking about folk music Márta Sebestyén and Kati Szvorák singers and Jánosi, Muzsikás and Vujicsics Group have to be highlighted. The best of the bests are queued here in the genre of Hungarian song, Gipsy music as well, e.g. Lakatos, Sánta and Kállai Kiss dynasties, the Budapest Gypsy Symphony Orchestra, Rajkó Band (Gipsy Orchestra) and dulcimer players such as Oszkár Ökrös, Apollónia Kovács, Erzsébet Talabér, Margit Bangó, Károly Solti and singing Ferenc Bessenyei who leads us to actors of literature discs: Zoltán Latinovits, László Mensáros, Imre Sinkovits, Irén Psota, Éva Ruttkay, Klári Tolnay and relics quarding own poetry recitals of poets.


Classical music recordings of the publisher have regularly received prizes at international competitions. In addition to awards by Diapason, Goldberg, Le Monde de la Musique, Pizzicato and other classical music journals, other awards are worth special mention, such as the three MIDEM-awards for the Dohnányi violin concertos (1999), the Bartók Complete Works (2002) and the first SACD of the Bartók New Series (The Wooden Prince, Kossuth – symphonic poem), as well as the Classical Internet Awards prize (2004) for an SACD conducted by Zoltán Kocsis. The most recent CD of the Bartók New Series comprising the violin sonatas performed by Barnabás Kelemen and Zoltán Kocsis won the „Recording of the Year” prize in the 2013 competition of Gramophone Awards in the chamber music category. Hungaroton released Beethoven’s complete piano concertos in 2015 performed by Dénes Várjon and Concerto Budapest conducted by András Keller; the recording won the Gramofon Prize a year later in the category “Best Hungarian Classical Music CD”. Another album entitled “Bartók the pianist” was also picked as “Best Historical Recording of theYear” and at the International Classical Music Awards (ICMA) voting in 2017; it was among the three top choices in the historical category. The Hungaroton label has produced several nominees during the past three years for ICMA, and two of its collections (Bartók the Pianist, 2017, - Best Historical Collection of the Year” category and The Great Book of Flute Sonatas, 2019 - „Best Collection” category) have made it to the final three nominees."

It's here:  https://hungarotonmusic.com/cegtortenet.html

A bit confusing to read (perhaps something lost in translation?).  They don't explain where/how/why Qualiton came into existence? It sounds like it might have initially been used as the label name for exports?

In any event, thank you for your thoughts and insight and I'll keep an eye out for Bacher!   :) :)

Must get in a walk today to keep my sanity.  Busy at the allotment?

Best wishes,

PD

Irons,

I also found this on Discogs:  https://www.discogs.com/label/57574-Qualiton  and https://www.discogs.com/label/882260-Tonalit

To add a bit more confusion.  Have you ever run across any of the Tonalit records?  I see that they were 10 inch shellacs.  Do you have the capacity chez vous to be able to play those?

I should probably work outside a bit today.  Am debating on whether or not to bring trash to the local transfer station:  people?   :-\  Has your country started suggestion that one wear masks?
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 05, 2020, 05:15:03 AM
Irons,

I also found this on Discogs:  https://www.discogs.com/label/57574-Qualiton  and https://www.discogs.com/label/882260-Tonalit

To add a bit more confusion.  Have you ever run across any of the Tonalit records?  I see that they were 10 inch shellacs.  Do you have the capacity chez vous to be able to play those?

I should probably work outside a bit today.  Am debating on whether or not to bring trash to the local transfer station:  people?   :-\  Has your country started suggestion that one wear masks?

A huge discography and as you say features a fair bit of Hungarian folk music. Tonalit, I have not heard of, and yes my TT does play 78's but has not played one, or a 45 either come to that.

The Hungaroton Bartok edition is pretty amazing. They recorded literally everything he wrote, published or not. All issues included detailed notes in a a gatefold/book format.

If I could get my hands on a mask I would wear one, P. I am sad to say with the fabulous weather this weekend the British public are flagrantly ignoring lock-down instructions. 

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: ritter on April 05, 2020, 05:35:24 AM
...
The Hungaroton Bartok edition is pretty amazing. They recorded literally everything he wrote, published or not. All issues included detailed notes in a a gatefold/book format.
...
Yes! I had several of those issues decades ago (they were my first exposure to Bartók’s music, along with the Boulez recordings on Columbia) and they were very beautifully produced.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 05, 2020, 06:30:28 AM
I do have one from that edition.  It has "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta"; "The Miraculous Mandarin (concert suite)" with György Lehel and the Budapest SO.  Looks like it's Vol. 8 of the Orchestral Works.  Can't find a cover of it.

I did see on Amazon that the CD set of it is going for big bucks!   :(  Didn't catch how many CDs were in it.  I noticed on the back of the LP that I have, they posted a "Draft Program of the Complete Edition" including some posthumous works.  Under that at the bottom "These four records which contain the posthumous works will be followed by others depending on the publication of other compositions written during his youth or unpublished as yet.

Think that I might try and make a list of ones to have on hand should I run across any more of them...or maybe just of the one that I do have?

How many of them do you own Irons?

Ritter, do you recall which ones you had and how you liked them?

Will have to look later and see who all is playing violin and also who plays the piano in his concertos.

Best,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 05, 2020, 11:08:35 PM
I have noticed quite a mix of participants in the series. Both labels also issued many Bartok records outside of the Complete Edition.

P, I do own the VC recording - my favourite Bartok work - with Kovacs Dénes (violin) and Budapest SO conducted by Lukacs Ervin. This is coupled with the two Rhapsodies for Violin and Orchestra.

 PC3 from the edition is missing from my shelves. PC 1&2 is Zoltan Kocsis and same orchestra with Gyorgy Lehel.

It would not surprise me if the above works are repeated in the series with other artists.

Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 05, 2020, 11:25:03 PM
Yes! I had several of those issues decades ago (they were my first exposure to Bartók’s music, along with the Boulez recordings on Columbia) and they were very beautifully produced.

Some of the sets have the dates published in small print which is unusual for East European labels (Melodiya excepted). The earliest I have is 1967 - bound to be many before then - and stretches through the 1970's.
As you say they are beautifully turned out with details of works and artists in English translation along with many photos. I was interested to read from PD that the edition had a CD release but for big money. I didn't know that.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 06, 2020, 04:18:12 AM
The violin concerto, etc. LP looks quite tempting (though I don't know anything about the musicians nor conductors involved).

Here's a link to the complete set on CD on Amazon.com:  https://www.amazon.com/Hungarotons-Bartok-B/dp/B00004YLIJ/ref=sr_1_22?crid=3PFYM6N10E611&dchild=1&keywords=bartok+complete+edition&qid=1586178902&sprefix=complete+bartok+ed%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-22

Ouch!

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 06, 2020, 05:42:55 AM
The violin concerto, etc. LP looks quite tempting (though I don't know anything about the musicians nor conductors involved).

Here's a link to the complete set on CD on Amazon.com:  https://www.amazon.com/Hungarotons-Bartok-B/dp/B00004YLIJ/ref=sr_1_22?crid=3PFYM6N10E611&dchild=1&keywords=bartok+complete+edition&qid=1586178902&sprefix=complete+bartok+ed%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-22

Ouch!

Best wishes,

PD

Gordon Bennett!

Stay safe, P.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 06, 2020, 06:07:21 AM
Gordon Bennett!

Stay safe, P.
Will do my best!  And you too.  Will hit the garden soon.  Sunny out, so it should be nice.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: ritter on April 06, 2020, 07:09:49 AM

Ritter, do you recall which ones you had and how you liked them?

Sorry for the late reply, PD. One of them definitely was The Wooden Prince Irons pictured above. Also IIRC, an LP with the Piano Concerto No. 3, and then another with Duke Bluebeard’s Castle. I remember enjoying them at the time, but it’s been more than 30 years since I’m separated from them.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 06, 2020, 08:22:11 AM
Thanks Ritter!   :)

By the way Irons, I had to look up what Gordon Bennett meant (though I had a hunch what you meant)!  ;)

PD
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 06, 2020, 08:56:32 AM
Thanks Ritter!   :)

By the way Irons, I had to look up what Gordon Bennett meant (though I had a hunch what you meant)!  ;)

PD

It is odd that a well known and used cockney (which I am) term is derived from a fellow countryman of yours, P.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 07, 2020, 03:33:49 AM
It is odd that a well known and used cockney (which I am) term is derived from a fellow countryman of yours, P.
:laugh: Too true! :)

And you're certainly not a 'used cockney'!!
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Irons on April 07, 2020, 11:13:05 PM
Thought I would make Bulgaria next port of call wandering around the Soviet Bloc. Nice beaches and good vinyl pressing plants too which go under the name Balkanton.

(https://i.imgur.com/z8inUvs.jpg)

The liner notes contain a most ridiculous statement "There is very much in common between the early preludes and Shostakovich's last completed composition ". In my opinion the transcription by Strahov of the Preludes for piano to viola and piano devalues the pieces and comparing them to the viola sonata is like comparing blancmange with marmite.

Listening to the Adagio finale of the sonata is slightly uncomfortable as if eavesdropping on a composer's thoughts at the realisation of a lifetime's work is about to end. Both the recording and performance are excellent. Again it is chamber and instrumental where East European engineers excel.
Title: Re: Thirty three and a third.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 08, 2020, 06:25:55 AM
Thought I would make Bulgaria next port of call wandering around the Soviet Bloc. Nice beaches and good vinyl pressing plants too which go under the name Balkanton.

(https://i.imgur.com/z8inUvs.jpg)

The liner notes contain a most ridiculous statement "There is very much in common between the early preludes and Shostakovich's last completed composition ". In my opinion the transcription by Strahov of the Preludes for piano to viola and piano devalues the pieces and comparing them to the viola sonata is like comparing blancmange with marmite.

Listening to the Adagio finale of the sonata is slightly uncomfortable as if eavesdropping on a composer's thoughts at the realisation of a lifetime's work is about to end. Both the recording and performance are excellent. Again it is chamber and instrumental where East European engineers excel.
I don't think that I've run across any of their records before Irons, but will now keep an eye out for sure!

Best,

PD