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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: hvbias on September 10, 2020, 04:35:42 AM

Title: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on September 10, 2020, 04:35:42 AM
For a long time I haven't explored Haydn much outside of Mosaiques, Festetics and London Haydn Quartet. Recently I've been picking up discs from Auryn and they are usually very good.

I haven't heard much of these in older style interpretation... for me it always seemed odd to hear Haydn in this style with more vibrato but I thought lets explore. I am looking for some suggestions here for exceptional must hear performances, either complete cycles, incomplete or individual discs are fine. Last night I listened to a bunch of Pro-Arte Quartet, aside from some often make the hair on the back of your neck piloerection intonation problems the performances were rather superficial and unmemorable.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 10, 2020, 06:42:43 AM
For a long time I haven't explored Haydn much outside of Mosaiques, Festetics and London Haydn Quartet. Recently I've been picking up discs from Auryn and they are usually very good.

I haven't heard much of these in older style interpretation... for me it always seemed odd to hear Haydn in this style with more vibrato but I thought lets explore. I am looking for some suggestions here for exceptional must hear performances, either complete cycles, incomplete or individual discs are fine. Last night I listened to a bunch of Pro-Arte Quartet, aside from some often make the hair on the back of your neck piloerection intonation problems the performances were rather superficial and unmemorable.

They are all 20th Century interpretations of course, no matter what the period instrument people may claim.  But here are some of my favorite pre-HIP recordings:

First, a super bargain must be pointed out, the complete quartets with the Dekany and Fine Arts Quartets:

MP3: https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Complete-String-Quartets-VoxMegaBox/dp/B00YRDOGKQ

FLAC:

https://us.7digital.com/artist/dekany-quartet-and-fine-arts-quartet/release/haydn-complete-string-quartets-the-voxmegabox-edition-4524105

https://open.qobuz.com/album/0047163598524

The Panocha Quartet did Ops. 33, 55, and 76.

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/473537-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-c-4-6
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/206-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-op-55-c-1-3
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/1537-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-op-76-c-1-3
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/167-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-4-6

The Weller Quartet did Op. 33.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7938135--the-weller-quartet

The Juilliard Quartet did Op. 54 and Op. 20.

The Griller Quartet did Ops. 71 and 74.



The Tokyo Quartet did Op. 50 (I'm not familiar with their Op. 76).

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Preussische-Quartette-Prussian-Quartets/dp/B001KW976A

Then there are the infamous Op. 64 recordings by the Caspar da Salo Quartet.  Infamous because this is a fake name attached to very good performances in pre-HIP style by an unknown group.

The Hungarian Quartet made some wonderful LPs that are among the best of the old style of Haydn playing.

I don't know the sets by the Tatrai Quartet(probably the most recommended of the old complete recordings), the Schneider Quartet, or, more recently, the Lindsays.




Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: amw on September 10, 2020, 06:58:46 AM
The Tatrai Quartet recordings are not good. They might have interesting ideas I haven’t listened to, but they simply didn’t play in tune.

I’ve heard the Angeles and Kodaly Quartets are pretty good and have never heard any samples to contradict that. The Lindsays are decent, but again, intonation problems (not as severe as the Tatrai). I don’t know the Schneider Quartet either but I think they’re probably okay.

Other non-HIP recordings (cannot say with confidence whether all of these are “20th Century”):
Op.1 - Petersen Quartet (their only Haydn recording no idea why)
Op.2 -
Op.9 -
Op.17 -
Op.20 - Hagen Quartet, Pellegrini Quartet, Doric Quartet
Op.33 - second the Panochas, wish they’d recorded the lot; will add the Parkanyi Quartet
Op.50 - Amati Quartet, Tokyo Quartet (much praised but I don’t like it personally), Nomos Quartet
Op. 54 - second the Juilliards
Op. 55 -
Op. 64 - Doric Quartet (fairly recent release)
Op. 71 - Auryn Quartet first recording, from the 90s
Op. 74 -
Op. 76 - Takacs Quartet and second the Panochas. I should probably get the Panocha op.55 at some point as well
Op. 77 -
Random selections - the Emerson Quartet from the Deutsche Grammophon Emersoncube, where I think they recorded about 8 or 9 quartets from different opuses, all pretty good
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 10, 2020, 07:18:14 AM
Op.33 - second the Panochas, wish they’d recorded the lot

All 6 are here:

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/473537-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-c-4-6

EDIT: It says "4-6" in the title, but it's all 24 movements of Op. 33.
EDIT 2: However, I could not find the remainder of Op. 76 on their site.
EDIT 3: Found it here: https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/167-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-4-6?artistId=486
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 10, 2020, 07:50:29 AM
Adding to my list the Endellion Quartet in Ops. 54 and 74.



They also have a new Haydn disc out that I haven't heard:

Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on September 10, 2020, 08:14:45 AM
All very good information thanks. Are any of Hungarian Quartet's recordings available on digital?

I forgot about The Lindsays, I like their recording of Seven Last Words of Christ even if the intonation isn't perfect, it's got some zest.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Mandryka on September 10, 2020, 08:21:59 AM
I am looking for some suggestions here for exceptional must hear performances, either complete cycles, incomplete or individual discs are fine.

The only one I’ve every thought about is op 20 and there are quite a few I think you should hear - maybe start with London Haydn, Salomon, Ulbrich, Chiaroscuro, Tatrai and Pro Arte.

Apart from that a long long time ago I became a bit infatuated with op 77and found a lovely thing, the Vegh Quartet live on Orfeo. Pro Arte is wonderful in Op 77/1.

The most memorable quartet I’ve heard was in a concert, the Hagen doing op 33 Joke. No recording as far as I know.

There are some other odd ones which may be worth a listen, for example Lindays doing op 54/2 in the second movement. Many years ago they gave a bunch of Haydn concerts in London which I went to and really enjoyed, these have been released on CDs, but it’s so long now I can’t remember which were the high points. Op 20/4 maybe.

Op 33 has always been a bit of a problem for me - maybe I just don’t much like it. I’ll try Panocha sometime. I’ve completely lost interest in op 76, when I used to listen to it I remember enjoying Carmina Quartet, but frankly I think anyone can make this music sound OK. Op 50 is another one which I can’t listen to any more.

I’m obviously not a Haydn lover!
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 10, 2020, 08:24:24 AM
All very good information thanks. Are any of Hungarian Quartet's recordings available on digital?

I see some on the streaming sites, but I don't know where they came from.  LP rips, perhaps.  They were on Vox/Turnabout LPs.

https://www.discogs.com/HaydnHungarian-String-Quartet-String-Quartet-Op-76-No-2-Quinten-String-Quartet-Op-76-No-5/release/9507805

https://www.discogs.com/Haydn-Hungarian-Quartet-Dek%C3%A1ny-Quartet-3-String-Quartets/release/11501779
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 10, 2020, 08:33:42 AM
op.33 Cuarteto Casals/hm (a bit hyperkinetic, though)
op. 76 Carmina (Denon), Eder (only 2-4 easily available, but they recorded all of then in the 1980s for Telefunken/Teldec), Tokyo/Sony (didn't like them too much) probably Alban-Berg but I have not heard the latter. (Only an older recording of op.74/3 and 76/3; they also recorded op.77 and op.33/3)

The Auryn has done all, available separately (still expensive), well played and recorded (I have opp.17 and 33) but they are not the last word in excitement (neither are Kodaly or Angeles)
I thought, amw also liked the Leipzig's Haydn, they are even more expensive than Auryn and being already well-stocked, I have not heard any of them.

Very good anthologies: Hagen/DG (op.1/1, 64/5, 74/3) and Jerusalem/hm (64/5, 77/1, 33/3, 20/5, 76/2+5)

I have one cheapo CD by the Hungarian Qt. with 64/5 and 77/2, recording very early stereo from the late 50s or so. I think they had 2-3 LPs worth or so?
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
I think I have read that the studio recording is not quite as crazily fast as the live recording. But I think it is still faster than any other of the half dozen I have heard, incl. the pretty fast HIP Apponyi (Freiburger) Qt. It works well in some quartets but in others, e.g. the first movement of #3 "bird" which is one of my favorites, I find them too hectic and graceless.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on September 10, 2020, 09:03:22 AM
I see some on the streaming sites, but I don't know where they came from.  LP rips, perhaps.  They were on Vox/Turnabout LPs.

https://www.discogs.com/HaydnHungarian-String-Quartet-String-Quartet-Op-76-No-2-Quinten-String-Quartet-Op-76-No-5/release/9507805

https://www.discogs.com/Haydn-Hungarian-Quartet-Dek%C3%A1ny-Quartet-3-String-Quartets/release/11501779

Thanks, I have a turntable that I use seldomly so I'll keep my eye out.

The only one I’ve every thought about is op 20 and there are quite a few I think you should hear - maybe start with London Haydn, Salomon, Ulbrich, Chiaroscuro, Tatrai and Pro Arte.

Apart from that a long long time ago I became a bit infatuated with op 77and found a lovely thing, the Vegh Quartet live on Orfeo. Pro Arte is wonderful in Op 77/1.

The most memorable quartet I’ve heard was in a concert, the Hagen doing op 33 Joke. No recording as far as I know.

There are some other odd ones which may be worth a listen, for example Lindays doing op 54/2 in the second movement. Many years ago they gave a bunch of Haydn concerts in London which I went to and really enjoyed, these have been released on CDs, but it’s so long now I can’t remember which were the high points. Op 20/4 maybe.

Op 33 has always been a bit of a problem for me - maybe I just don’t much like it. I’ll try Panocha sometime. I’ve completely lost interest in op 76, when I used to listen to it I remember enjoying Carmina Quartet, but frankly I think anyone can make this music sound OK. Op 50 is another one which I can’t listen to any more.

I’m obviously not a Haydn lover!

I'm fond of the Op. 20 quartets as well, No. 3 in particular is one of my favorites. It's what I went to first when hearing Auryn Quartet, and they did not disappoint.

I plan to hear more of The Lindsays, their intonation for the most part doesn't bother me much.

op.33 Cuarteto Casals/hm (a bit hyperkinetic, though)
op. 76 Carmina (Denon), Eder (only 2-4 easily available, but they recorded all of then in the 1980s for Telefunken/Teldec), Tokyo/Sony (didn't like them too much) probably Alban-Berg but I have not heard the latter. (Only an older recording of op.74/3 and 76/3; they also recorded op.77 and op.33/3)

The Auryn has done all, available separately (still expensive), well played and recorded (I have opp.17 and 33) but they are not the last word in excitement (neither are Kodaly or Angeles)
I thought, amw also liked the Leipzig's Haydn, they are even more expensive than Auryn and being already well-stocked, I have not heard any of them.

Very good anthologies: Hagen/DG (op.1/1, 64/5, 74/3) and Jerusalem/hm (64/5, 77/1, 33/3, 20/5, 76/2+5)

I have one cheapo CD by the Hungarian Qt. with 64/5 and 77/2, recording very early stereo from the late 50s or so. I think they had 2-3 LPs worth or so?

Excitement would be low on my list of adjectives to describe Auryn Quartet. But from what I have heard (Op. 20, Op. 74) there is a real rightness to their interpretations that gives me the impression they know and have considered this music quite deeply.

Among their "large" cycles of recordings (Schubert, Beethoven and Haydn) the Haydn seems to be the most consistently excellent.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Que on September 10, 2020, 10:39:20 PM
I haven't heard much outside of HIP either, but the Panocha Qt's Haydn is very good.

Stay away from the Kodály Qt (Naxos). There is not really wrong with them, it's just very uneventful.

Q
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: amw on September 10, 2020, 11:07:34 PM
All 6 are here:

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/473537-haydn-smyccove-kvartety-c-4-6
Good to know, thanks.

I thought, amw also liked the Leipzig's Haydn, they are even more expensive than Auryn and being already well-stocked, I have not heard any of them.
The main appeal of the Leipzig Quartet is the purity of their sound and intonation, so when one member of the quartet has persistent intonation issues (the first violin) in many of the more recent volumes of the series it makes them somewhat less appealing. All of the volumes that I know of are currently on Deezer so they can be sampled if desired.

I am currently listening to versions of Op. 50 no. 1 by the Kodaly, Fine Arts & Angeles Quartets in order to comment on them and realising it'll be a useless exercise as all it has done so far is confirm to me that I really love Op. 50 no. 1, and none of these recordings are bad enough to distract me from that.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: aukhawk on September 11, 2020, 03:52:29 AM
The Dorics have recorded Op.76 as well as Ops 20, 33 (new) and 64.  If I can't get the Chiaroscuros I like the Dorics the best - modern, unaffected, post-HIP playing (although I note ther personnel changes with each recording).

Random selections - the Emerson Quartet from the Deutsche Grammophon Emersoncube, where I think they recorded about 8 or 9 quartets from different opuses, all pretty good

Under 'random' this collection of 6 assorted quartets by the Quatuor Hanson is really good

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61M1eGSM5JL._SS500_.jpg)
Quatuor Hanson; Ops 50/6, 76/2, 54/2, 33/5, 20/5, 77/2
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 12, 2020, 05:53:28 PM
Listened to the Panocha Op. 33 No. 4 and Carmina Op. 76 No. 1.  I think both should please.

Listening now to the Budapest in Op 76 No. 1.  I think I got these files of Op. 76 from Symphonyshare or Concertarchive.  They are rips from Odyssey LPs of live recordings from the LIbrary of Congress.  Decent mono; the ear adjusts, as they say.  Plenty of rubato (though nothing offensive)  for those who want to explore older styles of Haydn playing.  I also have some CDs of this set that were "unofficial" releases on "United Archives", but I haven't had a chance to compare.  I see Beethoven and Mozart CDs online, but no "official" CD release of these Haydn recordings.

(https://img.discogs.com/boVtkw272feDsClUCJnbaB7ePoQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10390955-1496525085-9173.jpeg.jpg)

(https://img.discogs.com/CPeow2ySsm8uB3W9Uwkq0ofU27U=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-12185466-1530018728-9984.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Irons on September 12, 2020, 11:43:52 PM
Reading hvbias original post the Amadeus Quartet came to mind especially in relation to vibrato. Norbert Brainin is often accused of possessing a too pronounced vibrato but in the Haydn recordings (Op. 54,55,64,71,74) I do not notice anything amiss and I do not like excessive vibrato (or none at all). The Amadeus are from another age and it shows, that is no barrier from me liking their Haydn a lot.   
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 13, 2020, 01:05:49 AM
Some of the Amadeus recordings are pretty good, e..g. op.54/55. I did find Brainin hard to bear in the "lark", though, when I did some comparing a few years ago.
They also did 7 last words op.76+77;DG finally had one big box but several earlier ones with different combinations/selections (so I don't have op.76/77 but these are probably the ones where one has the broades selection of recordings anyway).
It's still an approach that will appear somewhat dated to some of today's listeners.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: mc ukrneal on September 13, 2020, 02:27:12 AM
For every rec you get here, you will find someone who doesn't recommend it.

I like Haydn Quartet (Hyperion), Angeles, Endellion, Kodaly, Takacs, Amadeus, and I'm sure several others I've forgotten about. I can easily live without Mosaiques, Festetics, Jerusalem, and others I have likely forgotten. There are so many choices - it's the process that is fun here.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: vers la flamme on September 13, 2020, 05:46:04 AM
For every rec you get here, you will find someone who doesn't recommend it.


Right? I came in to recommend the Kodály Quartet only to see Que dismiss them as "uneventful". I think it's a great set!
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: André on September 13, 2020, 06:51:42 AM
I wrote in « Buchberger » in the search window. I got a reply saying I might have meant « beefburger » instead  ::).

So, any opinion on the Buchberger Quartet set ?
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: amw on September 13, 2020, 07:05:41 AM
Pretty good but rough intonation wise, if that’s something that bothers you. Also sometimes a little bit idiosyncratic in their interpretations but they usually still work pretty well. I have their recordings of op.54, 55, 64, 76 and though not my top choices I still listen to them reasonably often.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 13, 2020, 07:45:48 AM
I have/had the Buchbergers in op.9 and 33+42 and would also say rough but energetic. The Kodaly have a more pleasant sound and I still think that of the three (or four, but I have never heard Aeolian) cheap sets the Angeles seems the best overall.
If money is no concern, I'd go for separates, e.g. according to amw's list and fill the gaps with Kodaly (or if you are rich) Auryn.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: MusicTurner on September 13, 2020, 07:57:52 AM
The Tatrai Quartet recordings are not good. They might have interesting ideas I haven’t listened to, but they simply didn’t play in tune.

I’ve heard the Angeles and Kodaly Quartets are pretty good and have never heard any samples to contradict that. The Lindsays are decent, but again, intonation problems (not as severe as the Tatrai). I don’t know the Schneider Quartet either but I think they’re probably okay.

Other non-HIP recordings (cannot say with confidence whether all of these are “20th Century”):
Op.1 - Petersen Quartet (their only Haydn recording no idea why)
Op.2 -
Op.9 -
Op.17 -
Op.20 - Hagen Quartet, Pellegrini Quartet, Doric Quartet
Op.33 - second the Panochas, wish they’d recorded the lot; will add the Parkanyi Quartet
Op.50 - Amati Quartet, Tokyo Quartet (much praised but I don’t like it personally), Nomos Quartet
Op. 54 - second the Juilliards
Op. 55 -
Op. 64 - Doric Quartet (fairly recent release)
Op. 71 - Auryn Quartet first recording, from the 90s
Op. 74 -
Op. 76 - Takacs Quartet and second the Panochas. I should probably get the Panocha op.55 at some point as well
Op. 77 -
Random selections - the Emerson Quartet from the Deutsche Grammophon Emersoncube, where I think they recorded about 8 or 9 quartets from different opuses, all pretty good

Regarding non-HIPs: am no specialist, but the Borodin4 did a late 2CD recording of opus 33, and I regret that I sold it. In the main, I substituted the Buchberger4 complete set with the Angeles4 complete set. I also have the old Fine Arts4 set of 21 selected quartets, on LPs.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Scion7 on September 13, 2020, 08:26:54 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/s2XGKdvR/HaydnQTS.jpg)

I've been quite happy with these boxed-sets over the years.
Sure, they could have Philips or DG surfaces as an improvement.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: André on September 13, 2020, 08:48:38 AM
Thanks for the advice(s).  :)

I have a dozen discs by the Kodalys, Tatraí, L’Archibudelli and Festetics, from op 51 onwards. I’m still without at least 1/2 of the works, and without a consistent artistic POV. That’s why I am considering investing in a complete set. Slimbox if possible (space has become a real issue  ::)) and not out of reach financially. The Angeles and Buchbinder sets are tempting in that respect.

Again, thanks !
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Scion7 on September 13, 2020, 08:55:10 AM
"20th Century Style" would almost certainly be all the recordings.

The earliest recordings were by the Hungarian Léner Quartet and the Belgian Pro Arte Quartet, both founded at the beginning of the century, or thereabouts - then recorded in the Twenties.  Their members being born in 1880's or 1890's, they might have had a thread back to 19th century performance mannerisms, depending on who their teachers were and what performances they might have attended in their youths.
This is a question for the scholars to answer.

For all practical purposes, only the mind's eye can imagine what a Haydn quartet would have sounded like during his time - hopefully they followed the score and played well.  Unless we put Gurn in the DeLorean and rev him up to 88 mph to send him back to find out . . .
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 13, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
op.20 and op.33 are essential works (in fact these two sets are probably the most important ones historically whereas one could pick any set of the later ones). Fortunately these are not too hard to get separately and also in rather different approaches. For op.33 I would also mention the Weller (late 60s Vienna) and Casals (modern HIP influenced)
Choices get rather slim for separately available op.1,2,9 and 17. Again, make no mistake, op.9 and 17 are not really early pieces, only a few years before op.20 and contemporary with pieces like the "Mourning" symphony. I am not sure if all/most of the Buchberger was available as twofers. I have their op.9 and quite like it. Angeles (box only) is very good in the early pieces, I think. Kodaly is o.k. (I heard one disc of their op.17)

opp.1 and 2 are really early (probably before 1760) and have been put in a different volume in the more recent Haydn edition, separate from the "real" string quartets (seems a bit silly, but I am not a musicologist and they have of course reasons like the different form usually in five movements and that the bass was maybe a violone, not a cello or whatever). Not essential, but evertheless, they are charming works and sometimes more than merely charming (e.g. the wonderful "duet" adagio in op.1/3).
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 13, 2020, 11:32:00 AM
Thanks for the advice(s).  :)

I have a dozen discs by the Kodalys, Tatraí, L’Archibudelli and Festetics, from op 51 onwards. I’m still without at least 1/2 of the works, and without a consistent artistic POV. That’s why I am considering investing in a complete set. Slimbox if possible (space has become a real issue  ::)) and not out of reach financially. The Angeles and Buchbinder sets are tempting in that respect.

Again, thanks !

To fill in your collection, I would recommend the Vox Box that I mentioned earlier.

https://classicselectworlddigital.com/collections/vox-mega-boxes/products/haydn-complete-string-quartets-dekany-quartet-fine-arts-quartet-24-hour-digital-download

EDIT: Oops, these are MP3.  I should have known since they didn't specify.  I downloaded their "Big Haydn Symphony Box" for $0.99.  Still, cheap and lots of interesting collections.

(Haven't tried this site, but they don't require a subscription to download like Qobuz.  Amazon also has it, but not sure how to get lossless from them without subscription).

Off topic for the thread: My other go-to set is the Mosaiques, but it is not complete.   Buchberger is very good, but despite the use of modern instruments, they are quite HIP.  In fact, they sound more austere than either the Mosaiques or the warm sounding Festetics. 
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Irons on September 13, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
Right? I came in to recommend the Kodály Quartet only to see Que dismiss them as "uneventful". I think it's a great set!

They are the CD equivalent of the LP Aeolian Quartet. A safe pair of hands.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: aukhawk on September 14, 2020, 07:23:28 AM
So, any opinion on the Buchberger Quartet set ?

I love the cover art on their individual volumes, eg:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/711pmPUSt7L._SS500_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71hC6abltxL._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71rGP5gS2gL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/714jWFWakgL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: André on September 14, 2020, 08:07:57 AM
Nice covers indeed!

................................
My first ever set of Haydn SQ, almost 50 years ago was a 3 LP Vox Box of op 76 with the Fine Arts Quartet. Love at first listen ! So much so that I bought another such set, their ‘Haydn quartets’ by Mozart. They have long gone the way of the dodo, so  my appreciation is based on rather dim memories: creamy sounding playing (esp. in the Mozart works), very good sound.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Daverz on September 14, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
I wrote in « Buchberger » in the search window. I got a reply saying I might have meant « beefburger » instead  ::).

So, any opinion on the Buchberger Quartet set ?

The Buchbergers are HIP on modern instruments.  To my ears -- between them, Festetics and Mosaiques -- they use the least vibrato, or maybe it just sounds more austere on modern instruments.  They do not make any concessions for warmth of tone.  I think their tempos and interpretive decisions are generally excellent, and sonics are up to date.

If you want a complete HIP set, but with warmer tone, go with Festetics.  To me they don't sound like a HIP group at all.  This may partly be the rich recorded ambiance.

If you want HIP, but don't demand completeness, Mosaiques.  Good sound, if not as rich as the Festetics get.

If you want completeness, but not HIP, Dekany and Fine Arts Quartets.  Good analog stereo.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on September 14, 2020, 02:46:32 PM
I ended up buying all of Auryn in one go since I really liked them in Op. 20 and 74, so this will keep me occupied for some time.

Another highlight was Flonzaley Quartet in the Lark Quartet, I really like that sweetness in tone you sometimes hear in the first violinist in those really old groups.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Irons on September 17, 2020, 06:35:34 AM
The Buchbergers are HIP on modern instruments.  To my ears -- between them, Festetics and Mosaiques -- they use the least vibrato, or maybe it just sounds more austere on modern instruments.  They do not make any concessions for warmth of tone.  I think their tempos and interpretive decisions are generally excellent, and sonics are up to date.

If you want a complete HIP set, but with warmer tone, go with Festetics.  To me they don't sound like a HIP group at all.  This may partly be the rich recorded ambiance.

If you want HIP, but don't demand completeness, Mosaiques.  Good sound, if not as rich as the Festetics get.

If you want completeness, but not HIP, Dekany and Fine Arts Quartets.  Good analog stereo.

That is most interesting. I am coming from the opposite direction, many recordings of the "old school" but would like performances in a more current style of playing. Invested in the London Haydn Quartet on Hyperion which frankly I didn't like one bit. Today I have ordered the Festetics in Op. 64 & 65 which hopefully proves more agreeable.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 17, 2020, 07:47:37 AM
I still haven't heard the London Haydn Quartet although they got pretty good press. I was fairly saturated with Haydn already when these came out, so I hesitated and still do (from the examples I was also not really convinced by the slow first movements in some of op.9+17 that are usually played "moderato" with an implied allegro but not by LHQ). For me the best Haydn quartets on historically instruments I have heard are the anthology discs (I have 2 of 3) with the Schuppanzig Quartet, followed by the Quatuor Mosaiques (who did opp.20,33,51(7 last words), 64,76,77), followed by Festetics for the pieces not covered by Mosaiques.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on September 21, 2020, 03:52:56 PM
Between Mosaiques and Festetics tempo wise I find Festetics is more consistent. Mosaiques play some of the slow movements a bit too briskly for me. As a whole, entire cycle if asked for one desert island cycle I'd answer Festetics before someone could finish their sentence :)

Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 21, 2020, 10:34:52 PM
I think both Mosaiques and Festetics are sometimes not lively enough in fast movements, e.g. the outer movements of op.54/1, and especially the Festetics are usually better in slow movements. It's been a while that I did any comparing and I could only directly compare these two in op.20 and one half of op.64 but in op.20 Mosaiques was so much better that I got rid of the Festetics.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: vers la flamme on September 22, 2020, 01:26:49 AM
I have one of the London Haydn Quartet discs (I believe the most recent, op.71 and op.74) and I really enjoy it, though I have heard some people criticize it, I think the idea is that it's too Baroque and maybe too uniform an ensemble sound.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: aukhawk on September 23, 2020, 01:14:20 AM
As I hear it, they (LHQ) sound positively old-fashioned.  These recordings do nothing for me although the cover art is very pleasurable, as a set.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Jo498 on September 23, 2020, 01:39:27 AM
Of the HIP Haydn I have heard the recordings that come closest to the "fast and lean" clichée (like e.g. Bruno Weil in symphonies) are the Apponyi Quartet with op.33 (they were basically the first chairs of the Freiburg baroque orchestra) and to a lesser extend the Schuppanzigh with Anton Steck as first violin. (And the Casals op.33 is even faster and leaner but with modern instruments.)
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Mandryka on September 24, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
As I hear it, they (LHQ) sound positively old-fashioned.

Why?
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on December 04, 2020, 11:35:30 AM
This is a great disc of the Op. 71 quartets, you can get it from their website.

(https://i.imgur.com/73LGkpj.jpg)
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Herman on December 06, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
Nice covers indeed!

................................
My first ever set of Haydn SQ, almost 50 years ago was a 3 LP Vox Box of op 76 with the Fine Arts Quartet. Love at first listen !

I had a much larger Fine Arts Qt LP box, something like ten LPs. Those were happy hours. Sometimes I think those days when I used to have just one recording of any given work were so much more joyful, because I just listened to the music, not so much to the performance quality.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Herman on December 06, 2020, 11:04:41 AM
I have quite a bunch of Tatrai Haydn recordings and I can assure anyone who needs it they are not playing out of tune.

These were four musicians who had been playing for decades before they recorded these pieces, obviously there was studio staff as well. The idea that the Tatrai would play out of tune without anyone saying, "Let's go over this one more time," is just ridiculous.

I am listening to their op.50 now, a recording from 1987 (fairly late); even in the most exposed places the intonation is flawless.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Irons on December 09, 2020, 01:33:51 AM
I have quite a bunch of Tatrai Haydn recordings and I can assure anyone who needs it they are not playing out of tune.

These were four musicians who had been playing for decades before they recorded these pieces, obviously there was studio staff as well. The idea that the Tatrai would play out of tune without anyone saying, "Let's go over this one more time," is just ridiculous.

I am listening to their op.50 now, a recording from 1987 (fairly late); even in the most exposed places the intonation is flawless.

Very well said.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on December 10, 2020, 02:14:18 PM
Going to agree with amw on Takacs in Op. 76, they are quite excellent.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Brass Hole on January 09, 2021, 10:10:15 AM
I think apart from the OP's LHQ, Mosaiques and Festetics there are a few other wonderful recordings, too. Such as Kuijkens in Op 76, Esterhazy in Op 20, Salomon in Op 50, Amsterdam in Lobkowitz and Apponyi in Op 33. Chiaroscuro is very very strong yet.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Mandryka on January 09, 2021, 10:21:29 AM
I think apart from the OP's LHQ, Mosaiques and Festetics there are a few other wonderful recordings, too. Such as Kuijkens in Op 76, Esterhazy in Op 20, Salomon in Op 50, Amsterdam in Lobkowitz and Apponyi in Op 33. Chiaroscuro is very very strong yet.

What do you think of a really old fashioned one which has divided so many people here (i.e. me against the rest of the world) -- Pro Arte?
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Brass Hole on January 09, 2021, 10:32:49 AM
What do you think of a really old fashioned one which has divided so many people here (i.e. me against the rest of the world) -- Pro Arte?

I'm very partial to sound quality, too. I guess I couldn't listen to it when I was first pointed to it and I couldn't do it with the remastered high-resolution. What's the basis of the division?
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: OrchestralNut on January 09, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
Right? I came in to recommend the Kodály Quartet only to see Que dismiss them as "uneventful". I think it's a great set!

Same here, I love this set.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Brass Hole on January 09, 2021, 10:42:46 AM
Same here, I love this set.

Kodaly is my first choice as a set on MI but I believe the day I started to listen to Trio 1790's set Haydn's chamber music on modern instruments came to an end for me.
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: Mandryka on January 09, 2021, 11:12:42 AM
Kodaly is my first choice as a set on MI but I believe the day I started to listen to Trio 1790's set Haydn's chamber music on modern instruments came to an end for me.

Oh nothing interesting. I like the the way they sometimes make the music swing, others don't!
Title: Re: Haydn's String Quartets and the 20th century interpretation style
Post by: hvbias on January 09, 2021, 12:02:36 PM
Since this thread has been bumped and I said I'd write something about Schneider Quartet in the Haydn composer thread- I've listened to all but four discs in this box, these pretty much hit the spot perfectly with what my intent was when I started this thread. All of this should be read with the caveat that I love early-mid period Budapest Quartet. 

These have that "reverence" in the slow movements, and generally played with more vibrato. In my opinion they could strike a more even balance between the earthyness, reverence, humor, wit and its more present in Festetics and Auryn's cycles and why these will still be my go to big cycles for ease of listening in large amounts. Still there is very minimal stodginess in Schneider which was one of my complaints when sampling Tatrai.

Schneider are more for isolated listening, I can't see myself listening to discs on end (note this is also my bias towards more modern sensibilities/my taste), but damn is this good music making. That combination of their integrated style and the mono sound (of course I'd have preferred this to be stereo) creates an agreeable, chamber quality when hearing them.

Most of this box is up on a Schneider Quartet Youtube channel and I sampled a good amount of it there before buying. 

Music & Arts transfers don't sound like they have done anything to impact the timbre and fidelity of the instruments but there is less tape hiss than what I would expect for 1950s tape, to my ears it sounds like this was reduced only through EQ and not something like No Noise as I hear no artifacts that hideous noise reduction system leaves behind. The tape hiss is still present at active listening levels so I might be wrong, this might just be from quieter tape formulation, Decca for instance were using quite expensive tape in the 50s. Some pieces sound like they came from LPs and not tape.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ka3BV2RNL._SL1121_.jpg)