Post by: zamyrabyrd on October 06, 2007, 09:31:49 PM
Here is a good site to start:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/hildegarde.html
"...When few women were accorded respect, she was consulted by and advised bishops, popes, and kings. She used the curative powers of natural objects for healing, and wrote treatises about natural history and medicinal uses of plants, animals, trees and stones. She is the first composer whose biography is known. She founded a vibrant convent, where her musical plays were performed..."
There is a clip in the new Norton Anthology, done really well (more lively than some other recordings) of the "In Principio" from her largely plainchant "Ordo Virtutem" (the Play of the Virtues) for 27 women's voices and one man (the devil). Well, she was mainly surrounded by nuns so the preference for female voices is understandable...
ZB
Post by: Lethevich on October 06, 2007, 11:03:24 PM
My favourites are Hildegard, Alfonso X's Cantigas de Santa Maria (I believe it's unsure which are attributed to him, and many are certainly by others, so generally they are all referred to as "his" works, but he just collected and published them), Pérotin, Dunstaple (very late medieval, but he is too wonderful to decide to leave out...) and above all Machaut, who, to me, is the only medieval composer who compares to renaissance era composers in terms of large surviving output, and is one of the rare medieval composers who can be understood sort of as a person rather than an almost anonymous writer of religious music. His music ranges from challenging and spikey (motets), very deep (Messe de Nostre Dame), to highly poetic, and uniquely insightful on non-religious themes (his accompanied poems).
Edit: A perhaps surprising amount of very early composers were female - amongst the ones known by only one name, pre-1000 ad, I believe there are 3 or 4.
Post by: 71 dB on October 06, 2007, 11:51:12 PM
Is anyone here into Medieval Music?
Not really. Too simple for my taste. I like Alfonso X thou. :D
Post by: Lethevich on October 06, 2007, 11:56:54 PM
Too simple for my taste.
Perhaps try this - it's an isorhythmic motet by Machaut, and audibly technical without any need to analyse (which would no doubt reveal much more).
http://www.mediafire.com/?fxj7dwnmvnx
Post by: 71 dB on October 07, 2007, 12:07:33 AM
Perhaps try this - it's an isorhythmic motet by Machaut, and audibly technical without any need to analyse (which would no doubt reveal much more).
http://www.mediafire.com/?fxj7dwnmvnx
Thanks! That wasn't bad. Maybe I explore this Machaut.
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 12:14:23 AM
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 12:27:48 AM
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ZZT021002-2.jpg)
This,also on zig-zag, has received superb reviews and are currently on my wish list.
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ZZT050603.jpg)
Micrologus have done a series of fine recordings for Opus 111 worth seeking out.
And then you have the series of fine recordings by Gothic Voices on Hyperion, though they crosses over into early renaissance as often as not. Though I don't think that is a proble, or that the distinction is necessarily very clear-cut.
Post by: FideLeo on October 07, 2007, 12:32:42 AM
I like medieval music. Machaut is superb. And the Florentine composers, Ciconia and above all Landini, are favorites. Dunstaple as well. Where to draw the line between medieval and renaissance though? Is Dufay clearly renaissance?
Dufay's isorhythmic motets are often viewed as the last medieval works in the genre. Some of the most complex medieval music was produced sometime before Dufay at the Papal court at Avignon in the style of "Ars subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior)" For me the best medieval music recordings were made by a group called "Ensemble Gilles Binchois (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/performers/binchois.html)" (on the Cantus, Virgin Verita and Ambrosie labels) ranging from plainchants to Leonin and Perotin to Machaut's "Messe de Nostre Dame" to the chansons by Dufay and Binchois. The Austrian Unicorn Ensemble (http://www.unicorn-ensemble.at), which once recorded for Naxos, have made some affordable and fun recordings as well, in very good sound. Enthusiasts of the Cantigas and Andalusian repertories should seek out issues from the ongoing integral series by the Spanish Ensemble Eduardo Paniagua (http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/spain.htm). I like them a lot more than I do the various Jordi Savall efforts. :D
Post by: Lethevich on October 07, 2007, 12:32:55 AM
Is Dufay clearly renaissance?
He is part of the Burgundy School which is considered very early renaissance.
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 12:38:36 AM
He is part of the Burgundy School which is considered very early renaissance.Yes - but lots of his motets and chansons are stylistically much closer to Machaut than to the high renaissance. But whatever; if one likes Medieval Music one should look into early Dufay. And the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.
Post by: Lethevich on October 07, 2007, 12:42:03 AM
Yes - but lots of his motets and chansons are stylistically much closer to Machaut than to the high renaissance. But whatever; if one likes Medieval Music one should look into early Dufay. And the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.
I definitely consider Binchois's secular music similar to Machaut in spirit.
Post by: lukeottevanger on October 07, 2007, 12:51:58 AM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/21EDEGEQ6GL._AA130_.jpg)
Simply the best - fresh, vernal, stunning readings of this repertoire, including Le Greygnour Bien and also some unbelievable 'birdsong'. Mixes French and Italian repertoire. (Samples at Amazon - try tracks 2 and 3, though I'm not sure if they have included the birdsong... (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ars-Subtilior-Grimace/dp/B0000269O0/ref=sr_1_3/026-5275857-5449242?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191750129&sr=1-3)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/616VTNNF9AL._AA240_.gif)
There are also (at least) two discs by Perdo Memelsdorff's Mala Punica (Ars Subtilis Ytalica and D'Amor Ragionando, the latter pictured above) which focus on Italian music and take a much slower, more sensuous approach. Gorgeous music making too.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/21KG3PZY6ML._AA130_.jpg)
Though I have a few more discs in this repertoire - including the magnificent Perusio-only one pictured above - I haven't bought any recently (well, apart from the one I just one-clicked on!) so can't comment on some of the very seductive-looking discs I've just seen whilst image-searching!
Post by: lukeottevanger on October 07, 2007, 12:55:28 AM
...the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.
That's a very important point, and one which I've made before when expressing my interest in the Ars subtilior. Another similar point of hyper-expressive complexity is found in the empfindsamer Stil whose finest exponents, perhaps, are CPE and WF Bach (the latter more extreme, the former more consummate)
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 12:59:51 AM
That's a very important point, and one which I've made before when expressing my interest in the Ars subtilior. Another similar point of hyper-expressive complexity is found in the empfindsamer Stil whose finest exponents, perhaps, are CPE and WF Bach (the latter more extreme, the former more consummate)Yes, all major styles seems to go over the top before a new, simpler and different style emerges.
Post by: (: premont :) on October 07, 2007, 08:35:44 AM
Troubadours, Trouveres (Bernart de Ventadorn, Thibaut de Navarre, Colin Muset et.c.)
Minnesänger (Walter von der Vogelweide, Neidhart von Reuental et.c.)
Notre-Dame school (Leonin, Perotin)
Cantigas de Santa Maria (Alphonso el Sabio)
Estampies
Carmina Burana
Missa Tournai
Guillaume de Machault
Llibre Vermell
Italian Ars nova (Landini)
Ars subtilior (Anthonello de Caserta, Johannes Ciconia)
Some importatant musicians and ensembles in casual order which have recorded medieval music and whose recordings can be safely recommended:
Studio der frühen Musik, München (Teldec and EMI):
Extensive discographie including almost all kinds of medieval music.
Ensemble für frühe Musik, Augsburg (Christophorus):
Clemencic Consort (Harmonia Mundi , Oehms and Arte Nova Classics)
Mala Punica (Arcana, Erato and Harmonia Mundi)
Ferrara Ensemble (Arcana, Harmonia Mundi)
Micrologous (Op 111)
Emmanuel Bonnardot and his ensembles Alla Francesca (Op 111, Virgin, ZigZag) and Obsidienne (Calliope)
La Reverdie (Arcana)
Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Cantus and Virgin)
New London Consort / PhilipPickett (L´Oiseau Lyre and Linn)
The Dufay Collective (Avie, Chandos and Harmonia Mundi)
Ensemble Unicorn and Oni Wytars (Naxos)
Paul Hillier and his ensembles Hilliard Ensemble (ECM, EMI and Hyperion) and Theatre of voices (Harmonia Mundi)
Gothic Voices (Hyperion)
Sequentia (German Harmonia Mundi)
Ensemble Organum / Marcel Peres (Harmonia Mundi)
The early Music Consort of London / David Munrow (EMI and Archive and Decca)
Musica Reservata (Philips)
Huelgas Ensemble (Pavane and Sony)
Anonymus Four (Harmonia Mundi)
Add to this a list of groups with only a few but important recordings:
Martin Best Mediaeval Ensemble (Nimbus),
New York´s ensemble for Early Music (Lyrichord),
Theatrum Instrumentorum (Arts),
Ensemble Anonymus (Analekta),
Tonus Peregrinus (Naxos),
Boston Camerata / Joel Cohen (Erato)
Modo Antiquo (Brilliant Classics)
Diabolus in Musica (Studio SM)
Orlando Consort (Archiv and Harmonia Mundi)
I have heard almost everything these groups have made of recordings of medieval music, and I find virtually nothing, which doesn´t pay in one way or the other. It is just to get started.
A fine starter might be the Harmonia Mundi 6CD release "Les tres riches heures du Moyen Age, containing recordings by among others: Ensemble Organum, Clemencic Consort and Anonymous Four.
Also the Early Music Consort of London´s three CDset "Music of the Gothic area" on Archiv,
the Machaut Mass by Clemencic Consort on Arte Nova,
the Llibre Vermell and Cantigas de Santa Maria CDs by Theatrum Instrumentorum on Arts,
the Messe de Tournai by Ensemble Organum on Harmonia Mundi,
the "Ars subtilis Ytalica" by Mala Punica on Arcana,
the Machault Motets by Hilliard Ensemble on ECM,
the recordings of secular Machault works by Gilles Binchois Ensemble on Cantus,
the Estampie collections by the Dufay Collective on Chandos and Avie,
the Estampie collections by the New York´s Ensemble on Lyrichord (2 CDs)
the "Beaute Parfaite" by Alla Francesca on Op 111 (containing Ars subtilior-works)
and Paul Hilliers solo CD "French Troubadour songs" on Harmonia Mundi.
As I said: Just to get started.
Post by: hornteacher on October 07, 2007, 09:43:53 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Paris-1200-Kurt-Owen-Richards/dp/B00000C422/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191782569&sr=8-1
Post by: 12tone. on October 07, 2007, 12:45:25 PM
You don't like Jordi Savall, eh? ;D
Post by: (: premont :) on October 07, 2007, 01:32:51 PM
Premont,
You don't like Jordi Savall, eh? ;D
Yes I do, and I own a considerable number of his recordings. But his contribution to medieval music is relative sparse. I would also tend to recommend his Llibre Vermell and his Cantigas de Santa Maria as well as his solo viol CD with medieval dances and traditional music, but I had to set a limit somewhere.
Post by: zamyrabyrd on October 07, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
In Grout's History of Music is a quote from Toynbee about the Church being the "chrysalis from which Western culture emerged", linking this up to the proliferation of the music in which the rites were carried. But more than that, prototypes of form and harmony are already in their incipient stages in plain chant with final, dominant, plagal, intoning notes, modes, limiting the smallest interval to the half step, areas of contrasting sections, eventually using the melodies themselves as bases for longer and more complicated compositions, etc.
As I said, I plead mainly ignorance and can only defer to those more learned than me.
ZB
Post by: jochanaan on October 08, 2007, 09:12:34 PM
Be sure not to miss The Play of Daniel. (Has that been recorded since the classic New York Pro Musica recording with Noah Greenberg?)
Post by: FideLeo on October 08, 2007, 10:32:03 PM
Be sure not to miss The Play of Daniel. (Has that been recorded since the classic New York Pro Musica recording with Noah Greenberg?)
Yes. At least once in the version by Harp Consort on DHM.
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6742/516rq78193lss500po6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Post by: zamyrabyrd on October 16, 2007, 08:22:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MbDqc3x97k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pl4znn-VrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGdtll3KAqw
In general I prefer chant, plain, that is without instruments. Some of the other clips have organ, even harmonized (eeek!)
ZB
Post by: Scriptavolant on October 16, 2007, 09:39:05 AM
Sequentia, Love songs of the Middle Ages.
(http://images.mp3.pl/img/albums/njed4bj.jpg)
Post by: beer on November 09, 2007, 03:48:59 AM
Not sure if it's meant to be dark but I watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1awjmVjTLm8) and I really like this kind of music. Same with the Lachrimae of Dowland. Or Praetorius' Bransles. Well they're dance music so I guess the dark theme is my own interpretation and they're actually renaissance but you know what I mean.
I need some pointers though because I couldn't really find albums that are themed around this kind of music
Post by: Renfield on November 09, 2007, 04:21:52 AM
And if not from him, we've more than a few people who listen to this sort of music. ;)
(However, I'm not one of them. My current listening starts much later, historically. So I can't really help you, beyond pointing you to those who might.)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 09, 2007, 05:47:18 PM
Well they're dance music so I guess the dark theme is my own interpretation
Not necessarily. Mille Regretz is actually a French chanson, a polyphonic vocal genre of medieval origin which is characterized by the use of so called 'formes fixes', consisting of complex patterns of repetition of poetic verses (with refrain) fixed in different specific forms (chief among them the ballade, rondeau and virelai). Those chansons were not dance pieces, and are mostly malinconic in nature (which i believe is the word you were looking for).
The number of chansons (along with their foreign counterparts, particularly those of Italian origin) written during the middle ages (and early renaissance) is vast, but alas, not well represented in recordings, both in quantity or quality.
That said, there are still many notable exceptions out there which i think will probably be of your satisfaction.
My first recommendation is a newly released collection of chansons by Gilles Binchois performed by the Bjon Schmelzer ensemble (http://www.amazon.com/Joye-plaintes-Gilles-Bins-Binchois/dp/B000NOKA3K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194656699&sr=1-1) which i think is one of the greatest recordings made to date for this type of repertory. Binchois is probably the last truly great master of this form, though there are many other great examples from all the foremost renaissance composers.
Next, Le vray remede damour (http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Vray-Remede-damour/dp/B00008A8H3/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194656929&sr=1-10), a collection of songs composed by Guillaume de Machaut, arguably, the first master of this genre, is another seminal centerpiece for this type of music. This one employs a plethora of different instrumental combinations which results in a greater array of colors compared to the usual viol performances (albeit this was usually the instrument of choice, after the human voice of course).
Matteo da Perugia (also known as 'Perusio'), possibly the greatest of Italian representatives is also another great choice, particularly this recording performed by the great Huelgas Ensemble (http://www.amazon.com/Matteo-Perugia-Helas-Avril-Puisque/dp/B0000029VL/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194657712&sr=1-5). Da Perugia is actually a member of the so called 'Ars Subtilior', a group of chansonniers who focused on all sorts of complex rhythmical patterns and explorations, in effect making this the 'avant-garde' of medieval times.
Aside from Mille Regretz, Josquin put out a decent number of chansons, many of which can be found in this recording by the Ensemble Janequin (http://www.amazon.com/Josquin-Desprez-Adieu-amours-Chansons/dp/B00009IC6K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194658786&sr=1-3). While the performance is excellent, the ensemble made a few flawed decisions first by cutting out all the repeats and second by setting some of the songs without voice, which recent research suggests was never really the case as previously assumed (Actually, the Machaut disc i mentioned above share some of the same problems but the results work so well it actually works quit well, plus they leave plenty of space for the some of the songs to breath). It's too bad because the melodies are really beautiful, as customary with Josquin. Hopefully some of the more recent ensembles, particularly the Bjon Schmelzer will pick this up and give the music full consideration.
I think this ought to suffice as an introduction, let me know if you are interested in more recommendations.
Post by: Renfield on November 09, 2007, 07:57:45 PM
In fact, I might as well end up using that recommendation myself, should I eventually decide to expand my listening towards music of that type and era. Thanks, Josquin. :)
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 09, 2007, 08:06:07 PM
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 09, 2007, 08:24:51 PM
For actual medieval music that has a heavy sound I would recommend the 12th century composer Perotin. The ECM disc with the Hilliard Ensemble is the main one that is available
And the only disc anybody needs. Personally, i'd argue the heaviest recording of medieval music ever made is Machaut's Messe de Notre Dame as performed by the Ensemble Organum. Rough, rugged and mean as hell, as god intended. ;D
Actually, almost everything the Ensemble Organum recorded is a must have. They are just that good.
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 09, 2007, 08:45:52 PM
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus, 1413-1422
Secular Music from the Chantilly Codex
Post by: FideLeo on November 09, 2007, 11:40:55 PM
or, more exactly, consort arrangements of Renaissance polyphony. I'd say go for
single albums with music by A (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agricola-Fortuna-desperata-Flemish-Ensemble/dp/B00000JMY2/ref=sr_1_2/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194676297&sr=8-2)gricola, B (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Byrd-Consort-Music-William/dp/B000025FC0/ref=sr_1_6/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194676500&sr=1-6)yrd, C (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cabezón-Tientos-y-Glosados-Antonio/dp/B00005COXU/ref=sr_1_1/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194676723&sr=1-1)abezon...Ortiz, Willaert, etc. Or simply go for
good anthologies such as the España Antigua (http://www.amazon.co.uk/España-Antigua-Francisco-Torre/dp/B00005NY5D/ref=sr_1_3/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194678003&sr=1-3) box with performances by Jordi Savall,
Canto a mi Caballero (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canto-mi-Caballero/dp/B00004VT4M/ref=sr_1_1/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194678967&sr=1-1) by Skip Sempe, Io canterei d'amor (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chansons-Madrigals-Viol-Consort-Cipriano/dp/B0000007C7/ref=sr_1_7/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194679897&sr=1-7) by Paolo Pandolfo
or this beautiful album performed by Hille Perle, Doulce memoire (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doulce-Memoire-C-Various/dp/B00004YMIY/ref=sr_1_6/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194679387&sr=1-6).
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9307/61kbprbxielss500zd9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Talking of doulce memoire, there is an early music group that goes by exactly
this name and their album of Renaissance dance music (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Renaissance-Winds-Ensemble-Doulce-Memoire/dp/B00000INWB/ref=sr_1_1/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194680110&sr=1-1) is really worthwhile,
however they are not so much a viol consort as a woodwind band and
the music is more grandiose than dark as desired, but all in all a
perfect introductory album to this repertory in the great Dorian sound.
Most of their other albums were released on Astree or Naive label,
and equally good as well. :)
(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7200/320105yv2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7974/51yg7r6mn6lss500xa0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Post by: beer on November 11, 2007, 02:20:48 AM
However, and now I see I didnt stress this enough in my starters post, I'm looking only for instrumental music here. Not singing. I listened to sample music of the albums above I could find and they all contained song.
I love song, I love Josquin, Byrd, Morales, Willaert etc., but this time I'm looking for purely instumental, if possible string instruments only even, like in the YouTube example in my first post.
I'm just not in the mood for songs right now ;)
Post by: FideLeo on November 11, 2007, 05:13:04 AM
I love song, I love Josquin, Byrd, Morales, Willaert etc., but this time I'm looking for purely instumental, if possible string instruments only even, like in the YouTube example in my first post.
Yes the recordings of "consort" pieces I recommended above are very much instrumental music - "Doulce memoire" performed by Hille Perl, for example, has mostly one or more viols (like those you saw in the youtube video). Also sixteenth and seventeenth century English composers wrote original works for the viol consort: Byrd, Gibbons, Dowland, Jenkins, Lawes, Locke, Farrabosco, Purcell and so on so forth. Ensembles like Hesperion XX, Fretwork or Phantasm have recorded tons in the kind of music you are looking for. Check them out.
ps. Sorry about the "broken" links above; they are now fixed.
Post by: beer on November 12, 2007, 12:13:46 AM
Post by: Lethevich on November 12, 2007, 12:36:30 AM
Could you exactly pinpoint some of the instrumental pieces please. I semi-randomly tried some of the samples on the amazon site but some didnt work and the ones that did work were all song.
Most medieval/renaissance instrumental music CDs that I have heard generally feature ensemble as well as ensemble/singer works on the same disc, so it may be difficult to find any without singing. Savall has recorded a lot of Iberian instrumental music, but again, I can't think of any disc without voices included in some pieces. His music making is generally not what could be called "dark" anyway, it's joyous.
The only disc without any singing that I can recall offhand is this one (http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1173578/a/Allegri:+Le+Suites+Medicee+%2F+Gran+Consort+Li+Stromenti.htm), (and an alternate site) (http://www.amazon.com/Allegri-suites-medicee-Primo-Musiche/dp/B000009OD6). It's generic court music, not too lively sounding. I would also recommend listening to Amazon samples (if there are any) of discs performed by Fretwork, a viol consort which has been recorded many times. This disc (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dowland-Lachrimae-Consort-Music-Songs/dp/samples/B00000J2PT) may be of interest, but even this has singing on some tracks (but not most of them IIRC)...
Post by: beer on November 15, 2007, 02:48:20 AM
Unfortunately I kinda lost my interest in this music again for the time being hehe. But I will definitely remember this thread when it is revived in a few months...
Post by: Kullervo on November 17, 2007, 10:05:05 AM
What are some pieces of this period with which no one interested in this sort of music can do without?
Post by: Lethevich on November 17, 2007, 11:46:02 AM
Labels like Virgin/Veritas (twofers), Gimell (has some cheap compilations), ASV (tends to sell for relatively low amounts on Amazon Marketplace), Hyperion/Helios, Harmonia Mundi/Musique d'Abord, Naxos and others all have great ensembles and a wide range of music. It sounds like a cop-out to just say investigate the big names on these labels, but such explorative investigation discovers both masterworks and hidden gems, rather than being directed towards the warhorses (although with early music, that term applies much less, given how under-recorded some of the greatest works are). A little list of some of the more prominent composers of the era (and a few suggestions):
Palestrina - Masses (he wrote many, and the quality is quite uniform, making it not worth collecting too many initially), motets (ditto)
Byrd - Masses for 3, 4 and 5 voices (it's interesting to compare these to Palestrina's - rather different, and more spare in style)
Victoria - Requiem
Dufay - Masses (IIRC most of the motets are quite early works)
Lassus - Most of the (huge amount of surviving) sacred choral music by him seems to be fascinating
Tallis - Lamentations of Jeremiah. Many riches to be found in his Latin motets
Binchois - Chansons (there's a very nice Virgin Veritas disc of these, coupled with Lescurel)
Gesualdo - Madrigals
Josquin - His entire work is strong, including masses, motets and chansons
Ockeghem - Masses and Requiem
Deliberately looking for discs with many different composers on is also a good way to familiarise - there are many of these pick 'n' mix type CDs available. Generally the real "meat" of the genre lays in the motets (and chansons, lieder, madrigals, etc, all slightly varying forms), with masses fewer in number depending on the composers. Lassus and Palestrina have many dozens surviving, Byrd only three.
Edit: super budget collections are rare in this repertoire, but two notable ones are this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestrina-Masses-Giovanni/dp/B000058USL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195328909&sr=1-1), and this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jordi-Savall-Music-Europe-1650/dp/B00064X2YG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195328917&sr=1-1).
Post by: beer on November 17, 2007, 04:18:48 PM
Post by: Mark on November 17, 2007, 04:39:38 PM
Adorate Deum / Gregorian Chant from the Proper of the Mass 8.550711
AGRICOLA: Fortuna desperata 8.553840
A-la-mi-re Manuscripts (The): Flemish Polyphonic Treasures 8.554744
ALFONSO X: Cantigas de Santa Maria 8.553133
Ambrosian Chant 8.553502
ARIOSTI: 6 Cantatas / LOCATELLI: Trio Sonata in E minor / VIVALDI: Trio Sonata in D major 8.557573
At the Sign of the Crumhorn: Flemish Songs and Dance Music 8.554425
BANCHIERI: Il Zabaione Musicale 8.553785
BENEVOLO: Missa Azzolina / Magnificat / Dixit Dominus 8.553636
Black Madonna 8.554256
BYRD / TALLIS: Masses 8.553239
BYRD: Consort and Keyboard Music / Songs and Anthems 8.550604
BYRD: Masses for Four and Five Voices 8.550574
CABEZON: Tientos y Glosados 8.554836
CAMPION: Lute Songs 8.553380
Cancionero Musical de Palacio: Music of the Spanish Court 8.553536
Carmina Burana 8.554837
CAVALIERI: Rappresentatione di Anima e di Corpo 8.554096-97
CHARPENTIER: Motets / Litanies a la Vierge 8.554453
CHARPENTIER: Noels and Christmas Motets 8.554514
Chominciamento di gioia: Virtuoso Dance Music 8.553131
Codex Faenza: Instrumental Music of the Early 15th Century 8.553618
DALL'AQUILA / da CREMA: Ricercars / Intabulations / Dances 8.550778
DOWLAND: Consort Music and Songs 8.553326
DOWLAND: Flow My Tears and Other Lute Songs 8.553381
DUFAY: Chansons 8.553458
DUFAY: Missa L' homme arme 8.553087
Early Music (The Glory of) 8.554064
Early Venetian Lute Music 8.553694
Elizabethan Songs and Consort Music 8.554284
English Madrigals and Songs 8.553088
French Chansons 8.550880
FRESCOBALDI: Fantasie, Book 1 / Ricercari / Canzoni Francesi 8.553547-48
GABRIELI: Music for Brass, Vol. 1 8.553609
GABRIELI: Music for Brass, Vol. 2 8.553873
GESUALDO: Sacred Music for Five Voices (Complete) 8.550742
GIBBONS: Choral and Organ Music 8.553130
GIBBONS: Consort and Keyboard Music / Songs and Anthems 8.550603
Gregorian Chant for Good Friday 8.550952
HILDEGARD VON BINGEN: Heavenly Revelations 8.550998
HOLBORNE / ROBINSON: Pavans and Galliards 8.553874
HUME: Captain Humes Poeticall Musicke, Vol. 1 8.554126
HUME: Captain Humes Poeticall Musicke, Vol. 2 8.554127
Introduction to Early Music (An) 8.551203
JENKINS: All in a Garden Green 8.550687
JOHNSON: Lute Music 8.550776
JOSQUIN: Missa L'homme arme / Ave Maria / Absalon, fili mi 8.553428
LA RUE: Mass of the Seven Sorrows of the Blessed Virgin / Missa Pascale 8.554656
LA RUE: Magnificats (Complete) / 3 Salve Reginas 8.557896-97
Lamentations (Oxford Camerata) 8.550572
Lamenti Barocchi, Vol. 1 8.553318
Lamenti Barocchi, Vol. 2 8.553319
Lamenti Barocchi, Vol. 3 8.553320
LASSUS: Lagrime di San Pietro 8.553311
LASSUS: Masses for Five Voices / Infelix ego 8.550842
LAWES: Consort Music for Viols, Lutes and Theorbos 8.550601
LEONIN / PEROTIN: Sacred Music from Notre-Dame Cathedral 8.557340
Let Voices Resound: Songs from Piae Cantiones 8.553578
LOBO, D. / CARDOSO: Portuguese Requiem Masses 8.550682
MACHAUT: Messe de Nostre Dame (La) / Le Voir Dit 8.553833
Medieval Carols 8.550751
MILAN / NARVAEZ: Music for Vihuela 8.553523
MILANO: Fantasias, Ricercars and Duets 8.550774
MONTEVERDI: Ballo Delle Ingrate / Combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda 8.553322
MONTEVERDI: Canzonette 8.553316
MONTEVERDI: Madrigals, Book 1 (Il Primo Libro de Madrigali, 1587) and Secular Manuscript Works 8.555307
MONTEVERDI: Madrigals, Book 2 (Il Secondo Libri de' Madrigali, 1590) 8.555308
MONTEVERDI: Madrigals, Book 3 (Il Terzo Libro de' Madrigali, 1592) 8.555309
MONTEVERDI: Orfeo (L') 8.554094-95
MONTEVERDI: Scherzi Musicali a Tre Voci 8.553317
MONTEVERDI: Vespers of the Blessed Virgin 8.550662-63
Music of the Italian Renaissance 8.550615
Music of the Spanish Renaissance 8.550614
Music of the Troubadours 8.554257
OBRECHT: Missa Caput / Salve Regina 8.553210
OCKEGHEM: Missa L'homme arme / JOSQUIN: Memor esto verbi tui 8.554297
OCKEGHEM: Requiem / Missa Prolationum 8.554260
Oh Flanders Free: Music of the Flemish Renaissance 8.554516
On the Way to Bethlehem: Music of the Medieval Pilgrim 8.553132
PAISIBLE: 6 Setts of Aires 8.555045
PALESTRINA / LASSUS: Masses 8.550836
PALESTRINA: Missa L'homme arme / CAVAZZONI: Ricercari 8.553315
PALESTRINA: Missa Papae Marcelli 8.550573
PALESTRINA: Missa Papae Marcelli / ALLEGRI: Miserere 8.553238
PALESTRINA: Missa Sine Nomine / Missa L'Homme Arme / Motets 8.553314
Paschale Mysterium: Gregorian Chant for Easter 8.553697
PERTI: Lamentations / Liturgy for Good Friday 8.553321
PHILIPS: Cantiones Sacrae / Quinis Vocibus 8.555056
Piae Cantiones: Latin Song in Medieval Finland 8.554180
Portuguese Polyphony 8.553310
PRAETORIUS: Dances from Terpsichore 8.553865
Psaumes de la Reforme 8.553025
Renaissance Masterpieces 8.550843
Royal Songbook: Spanish Music from the Time of Columbus 8.553325
Salve Festa Dies: Gregorian Chant for Seasons of the Year 8.550712
SCHUTZ: Christmas Story / Cantiones Sacrae 8.553514
SCHUTZ: Psalmen Davids 8.553044
Sephardic Romances: Traditional Jewish Music from Spain 8.553617
TALLIS: Mass for Four Voices / Motets 8.550576
THE ITALIAN DRAMATIC LAMENT 8.557538
TOMKINS / GIBBONS / BYRD: Consort and Keyboard Music 8.553241
TOMKINS: Choral and Organ Works 8.553794
TOMKINS: Consort Music for Viols and Voices 8.550602
Tugend und Untugend: German Music from the Time of Luther 8.553352
TYE: Missa Euge Bone / MUNDY: Magnificat 8.550937
Under the Greenwood Tree 8.553442
VECCHI: Amfiparnaso (L') 8.553312
VICTORIA / LOBO / LASSUS: Masses 8.553240
VICTORIA: Masses 8.550575
WEELKES: Anthems 8.553209
WILLAERT: Missa Christus resurgens / Magnificat / Ave Maria 8.553211
World of Early Music 8.554770-71
Post by: Heather Harrison on November 17, 2007, 06:54:34 PM
The Naxos early music series, which has been mentioned, is a good inexpensive way to explore Renaissance music; there are a number of good releases out there. I haven't seen many of them in stores, but they are easy to get on the web. Check out sound samples and see what you like.
Also, I have thought of a particular CD that I find to be a great example of late Renaissance/early Baroque vocal music. Praetorius: Polyhymnia Caduceatrix & Panegyrica. La Capella Ducale; Musica Fiata. This CD is out of print, but used copies usually seem to be available. The music is gorgeous, and the performance is great. I can't figure out why this is out of print. Amazon has sound samples if you want to check it out. If this one is a pain to get, other CDs of the vocal music of Praetorius are certainly worth checking out.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/19/25/fcba793509a00dcd353f3110._AA240_.L.jpg)
If you check this out and like the style, you might also want to look for music by Giovanni Gabrieli; his music is richly complex and beautiful.
If you want to check out Renaissance/early Baroque music of a more folksy style, there is a lot of music from the British Isles that is enjoyable. One of my favorite groups that performs this style is the Baltimore Consort; they released a number of CDs for Dorian in the 1990's. This is the popular music of the day; it is fairly straightforward, and a lot of fun. Since Dorian went under, a lot of their CDs are now out of print, but used copies are readily available. Some are still in print; it seems that someone is trying to resurrect the Dorian label, so hopefully their many excellent early music CDs will return to the marketplace. Incidentally, while I was looking, I discovered CDs by the Baltimore Consort that I don't have yet, including a new one that just came out. I might just have to order them.
Heather
Post by: hornteacher on November 17, 2007, 08:21:53 PM
Post by: Lethevich on November 18, 2007, 06:04:42 AM
If you want to check out Renaissance/early Baroque music of a more folksy style, there is a lot of music from the British Isles that is enjoyable. One of my favorite groups that performs this style is the Baltimore Consort; they released a number of CDs for Dorian in the 1990's. This is the popular music of the day; it is fairly straightforward, and a lot of fun. Since Dorian went under, a lot of their CDs are now out of print, but used copies are readily available. Some are still in print; it seems that someone is trying to resurrect the Dorian label, so hopefully their many excellent early music CDs will return to the marketplace. Incidentally, while I was looking, I discovered CDs by the Baltimore Consort that I don't have yet, including a new one that just came out. I might just have to order them.
Discs like those are some of my favourites - the music is inventive and in a variety of forms, it's like a fun potpourri. A particularly cheap and decent one is this twofer:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QMN737N1L._AA180_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Streets-Theatres-London-Musicians-Swanne/dp/B0007DHQ6G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195394578&sr=1-6)
Post by: Kullervo on November 18, 2007, 06:21:35 AM
Post by: Heather Harrison on November 18, 2007, 07:45:07 AM
Discs like those are some of my favourites - the music is inventive and in a variety of forms, it's like a fun potpourri. A particularly cheap and decent one is this twofer:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QMN737N1L._AA180_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Streets-Theatres-London-Musicians-Swanne/dp/B0007DHQ6G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195394578&sr=1-6)
I have that one, and it is very good. This group (Musicians of Swanne Alley) has other good recordings too.
Heather
Post by: Que on December 30, 2007, 02:38:59 AM
This recording seems very good, are there any others to consider?
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/msiart/large/0000443/0000443590.jpg)
Q
Post by: jochanaan on January 03, 2008, 09:40:25 PM
Post by: Que on January 03, 2008, 10:02:44 PM
I can imagine it's good, Que. I know only one piece by Tomas Luis de Victoria, "O Magnum Mysterium," but that one is so beautiful I would be interested in any other music by him. :D
The main contender to the McCreesh recording seems to be David Hill (Hyperion).
He uses smaller forces and boy sopranos instead of counter-tenors/sopranists.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d2/90/74c190b809a07c5a865d6110.L.jpg)
Hope somebody would like to comment on these! :)
Q
Post by: FideLeo on January 04, 2008, 01:56:04 AM
The main contender to the McCreesh recording seems to be David Hill (Hyperion).
He uses smaller forces and boy sopranos instead of counter-tenors/sopranists.
Smaller forces? I am not sure that is true. After all, McCreesh uses only 3-5 voices
for each part apart from the plainchants. I have the Hill recording which is VERY
reverberantly recorded (the Westminster Cathedral sound!). It may sound just
perfect for the work though, so dark and sensual it almost feels unreal.
Indeed there is an overall declining and decaying atmosphere that truly befits
Victoria's Requiem, which has been argued to represent the end of the centuries-old
Franco-Flemish polyphonic tradition in church music.
I have an interesting Victoria recording "Et Jesum" featuring the outstanding Spanish
countertenor singer Carlos Mena (Harmonia mundi). Following contemporary
examples, Mena sings arrangements of Victoria motets and mass movements in which
the top line remains vocal but all other parts have been redone in a tablature style for
a vihuela solo plus, in some pieces, echoes from a most magical sounding cornetto.
The results are remarkably similar to English lute songs from around the same time
but perhaps even more hauntingly "cantabile" in character.
Angus dei from Missa O magnum mysterium (Carlos Mena, vocal; Juan Carlos Rivera, vihuela da mano) (http://www.mediafire.com/?bbxcy992m1j)
Post by: Que on January 04, 2008, 01:18:21 PM
Smaller forces? I am not sure that is true. After all, McCreesh uses only 3-5 voices
for each part apart from the plainchants.
Then one of the comments I read is erroneous - thanks for your helpful comments! :)
Quote
I have an interesting Victoria recording "Et Jesum" featuring the outstanding Spanish
countertenor singer Carlos Mena (Harmonia mundi). Following contemporary
examples, Mena sings arrangements of Victoria motets and mass movements in which
the top line remains vocal but all other parts have been redone in a tablature style for
a vihuela solo plus, in some pieces, echoes from a most magical sounding cornetto.
The results are remarkably similar to English lute songs from around the same time
but perhaps even more hauntingly "cantabile" in character.
Angus dei from Missa O magnum mysterium (Carlos Mena, vocal; Juan Carlos Rivera, vihuela da mano) (http://www.mediafire.com/?bbxcy992m1j)
And another thanks for the sample - sounds very nice indeed. :)
Q
Post by: Que on March 30, 2008, 02:42:52 AM
After Victoria and Escobar, I was wondering if this might be a good idea:
(http://www.abella.de/cover/P8424562214026_1.jpg)
Is it? Any comments on the recording, any alternatives for this recording or suggestions on other Spanish (Iberian) music from the Renaissance?
Q
Post by: FideLeo on March 30, 2008, 03:02:56 AM
Please, need some fresh input on Renaissance music!
After Victoria and Escobar, I was wondering if this might be a good idea:
(http://www.abella.de/cover/P8424562214026_1.jpg)
Is it? Any comments on the recording, any alternatives for this recording or suggestions on other Spanish (Iberian) music form the Reniassance?
Q
Sticking with sacred polyphony, there is the Portuguese also:
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hmu1543.htm
Post by: The new erato on March 30, 2008, 03:07:40 AM
Please, need some fresh input on Renaissance music!Yes it is. And the recordings of Morales by the same forces are also very recommendable. As are this:
After Victoria and Escobar, I was wondering if this might be a good idea:
(http://www.abella.de/cover/P8424562214026_1.jpg)
Is it? Any comments on the recording, any alternatives for this recording or suggestions on other Spanish (Iberian) music form the Reniassance?
Q
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/AVSA9814.jpg)
Lots of different stuff here, the Morales extracts are stunning.
Post by: Que on March 30, 2008, 08:11:03 AM
Yes it is. And the recordings of Morales by the same forces are also very recommendable. As are this:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/AVSA9814.jpg)
Lots of different stuff here, the Morales extracts are stunning.
Sticking with sacred polyphony, there is the Portuguese also:
http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hmu1543.htm
Great, thanks guys! :) That site is a valuable source of information on Early Music, though I sometimes get lost in it! :D
From the list of Portuguese Renaissance composers Manuel Cardoso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Cardoso) seems worth checking out.
And so does Christóbal Morales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristóbal_de_Morales).
Q
Post by: Lethevich on March 30, 2008, 01:07:15 PM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/270/272910.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Agenda-DeFunctorum-Vasquez/dp/B000025Q3B/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206911172&sr=1-2)
Post by: Que on April 05, 2008, 12:04:51 AM
In my quest for Early Music I wondered about Giovanni da Palestrina - any recommendations?
How is this Brilliant set?
(http://www.selections.com/images/products/picture1zoom/BX558.jpg)
Q
Post by: Lethevich on April 05, 2008, 03:04:18 AM
How is this Brilliant set?
(http://www.selections.com/images/products/picture1zoom/BX558.jpg)
Very good, although can sound a little unpolished compared to performances I tend to prefer (the type that would make most people on this forum projectile vomit), such as the disc below. The individual lines are clearer in the PCA recordings and the effect is less blended than "traditional" performances, there is also a spontaneous and involved feel to the music. Sound quality is rather good, and the booklets are almost worthless just like many Brilliant issues.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519488DE0NL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestrina-Missa-Ecca-ego-Johannes/dp/B00001QGRY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1207392504&sr=8-1)
This disc is so sumptuous and bang on perfect that I am sure it would bore many due to its lack of "notable features"/interesting performance decisions, but it sounds simply gorgeous to me. IMO going down this route with Palestrina in particular is effective due to his general lack of dissonance and already "perfected" music with nothing approaching a rough edge - accentuating that can produce amazingly beautiful results. A little aloof, yeah, but that's how I'd imagine angels to be anyway :P
(Sorry about the slightly crappy descriptions, I find it a little difficult to describe early music.)
Post by: Que on April 11, 2008, 09:00:37 PM
I think I'm into "unpolished" performances... :D
It's a pity about the lack of liner notes with Brilliant, saw the same recordings (originally on ASV) on Regis - but of corse more expensive, and even a CD less....
(http://www.selections.com/images/products/picture1zoom/C100.JPG)
Anyone else with some Palestrina recommendations? :)
Q
Post by: FideLeo on April 19, 2008, 04:00:34 AM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/79/1009079.jpg)
Got a 10/10 on ClassicstodayFrance (http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2544).
Anyone heard it? Does anyone know this ensemble? :)
Pedro Memesdorf is a very fine recorder player and Mala punica (pomergranates) is his ensemble. I don't see anything particularly "dark" in this music (Codex Faenza) though, other than the pitch black background in the cover graphic (of what looks like the gilt pinnacles of a rood screen - Italian Gothic style).
Post by: Kullervo on April 19, 2008, 04:24:42 AM
Quote from: article
It is thus all the more scandalous as more no volume of their discography is currently available, that they are the recordings published at Arcana, Erato or Harmonized Mundi, when certain poor discs but more salesmen, them, are regularly republished.
Haha
Post by: (: premont :) on April 19, 2008, 11:22:05 AM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/79/1009079.jpg)
Got a 10/10 on ClassicstodayFrance (http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2544).
Anyone heard it? Does anyone know this ensemble? :)
Inspired by que I listened to this, which was in my listening queue, to day.
Very pure and beautiful singing, the undulating diminutions from the instruments lending the relative static singing momentum and life, certainly a special effect. It is difficult to tell, where knowledge ends and conjecture or artistic freedom takes over, but the sounding result is striking and convincing, and this is what matters in this repertoire.
Post by: Que on April 26, 2008, 11:05:48 PM
A good listing of that label HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=95&es=0&so=0&n=False).
(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/16643/EN-2014_B.jpg) (http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/9194/2018_b.jpg) (http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/36666/EN-2023_B.jpg)
Q
Post by: Que on April 30, 2008, 12:50:38 AM
Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?
(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/33934.jpg)
A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).
Q
Post by: Harry on April 30, 2008, 01:01:23 AM
Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministers (http://www.capelladeministrers.com/) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=107&es=0&so=0&n=False).
Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?
(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/33934.jpg)
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.capelladeministrers.com/DOCUMENTOS_E/AGNUSDEIACDM%200615.MP3[/mp3]
A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).
Q
Looks and sounds very promising, so I will order a few of them.
Thanks for the link.
How on earth do you find such obscure places? ;D
Post by: FideLeo on May 02, 2008, 08:28:31 AM
A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).
Hmm. Just like what Rene Jacobs used to do in Monteverdi. It may sound more interesting to our ears,
but it is also true that that approach really hasn't had many new converts (among musicians) over the
years. Reason? We don't really know how these were performed in terms of instrumentation details.
BTW, McCreesh's name is a notable omission among the Brit musicians mentioned by this reviewer, for
reasons that may not be so difficult to figure out.... ;)
Post by: Que on May 02, 2008, 08:32:03 AM
Q
Post by: FideLeo on May 02, 2008, 08:38:16 AM
So... Magraner's guess is as good as anyone's? ::)
Q
When there is a dearth of hard data to back one up, I guess it's fair to say so. No? True, Magraner is a scholar in the field, but McCreesh, Parrott, etc. probably weren't making wild guesses either when they chose only to use a bass dulcian (the Spanish word is bajon I think) to double the bass voice(s).
Bear in mind that reviews were written to sell more (HIP or not) recordings. The sound snippet from the Victoria didn't really grab me either, but your mileage may vary.
Post by: Que on May 02, 2008, 08:53:06 AM
The sound snippet from the Victoria didn't really grab me either, but your mileage may vary.
Well, I would have to hear more to make a fair judgement. But I feel that McGreesh hits the right spot for me. :)
Q
Post by: bassio on May 04, 2008, 08:41:37 AM
Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministrers (http://www.capelladeministrers.com/) (CDM) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=107&es=0&so=0&n=False).
Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?
(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/33934.jpg)
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.capelladeministrers.com/DOCUMENTOS_E/AGNUSDEIACDM%200615.MP3[/mp3]
A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).
Q
Never went into this era/type of music. It sounds very ... English! :)
Post by: bassio on May 04, 2008, 08:45:16 AM
I was quite interested in hearing Jacobs' as a conductor and his accounts on Monteverdi/other music, what do you think?
hmmm, will open a new thread for this sometime later .. we don't want to hijack this thread
By the way: On my last post - I assume of course that the composer is English, correct? Pretty evident in the mp3 sample. 0:)
Post by: The new erato on May 04, 2008, 10:03:30 PM
Tomas Luis de Victoria - do you really think that sounds English? Spains perhaps greatest Renaissance composer..........
By the way: On my last post - I assume of course that the composer is English, correct? Pretty evident in the mp3 sample. 0:)
Post by: bassio on May 10, 2008, 03:20:27 AM
But really, from only listening to the sample, the 'style' gives a feel of "English" whatever that means; even the reviewer you linked to seems to agree with me ;)
By the way, which choice is more sensible to approach when someone is a beginner to the Renaissance period:
Josquin or Palestrina or Dufay or Gesualdo?
Suggestions welcome.
Post by: The new erato on May 10, 2008, 03:30:43 AM
So Victoria is Spanish then :) .. Calm down folks, its not like I have mistaken the queen [pun intended :P]Josquin is as different from Palestrina as Brahms is from late Stravinsky. The same with Dufay vs Gesualdo. So this is difficult to answer as it has lots to do with taste and listening experience/preferences.
But really, from only listening to the sample, the 'style' gives a feel of "English" whatever that means; even the reviewer you linked to seems to agree with me ;)
By the way, which choice is more sensible to approach when someone is a beginner to the Renaissance period:
Josquin or Palestrina or Dufay or Gesualdo?
Suggestions welcome.
My advice is to listen to a crosselection and explore what you like.
Dufay, Josquin and Palestrina are cornerstones of different periods and styles.
If you like Dufay, continue with Binchois, Busnois and other late 15thcentury composers
If you like Josauin, you're really spoilt with Obrecht, Isaac, de la Rue and tons of early to mid 16th century Northerners..
If you like Palestrina; Victoria, Morales, parts of Lassus etc.
Madrigals are really a subject all to itself, besides Gesualdo, explore Marenzio and Monteverdi (first)
Post by: Que on September 20, 2008, 01:10:11 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XJ5dgbXfL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6055136?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
click picture for more samples
Got this a while ago, since I was much charmed by other Iberian Renaissance music by this ensemble under Michael Noone: Guerrero's Requiem and Morales' Assumption Mass (see also previous posts). And the success story continues, as far as I'm concerned.
The music contains the Missa Super Flumina Babylonis with added plainsongs, sung by the Spanish Schola Antigua, and hymns. In early music I feel the approach of the performers as well as the way of recording is crucial. And performance and recording are drop dead gorgeous: transparent, beautifully phrased, natural. Guerrero's polyphony is show cased for everybody to admire. Naturally, in comparison with the Requiem, this music has a more lighter touch. I find Guerrero's music strikingly colourful - a major attraction.
Maybe not as essential as the Requiem, but for those who want more Guerrero after that: this is the way to go. Recommended. :)
Q
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 01:31:35 AM
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 01:41:41 AM
I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers.
No it's not, and if you had any understanding of counterpoint as you claim in another thread you wouldn't claim it to be. Their contrapunctal technique is very different (as any textbook can tell you, eg in use of small motivic cells vs use of long themes, independence between parts, canonic technique etc etc in absurdum), their attidude towards dissonance differs, cadenctial tecniques vary considerably, relationship between words and music (the way that individual words and parts of words are related to individual notes etc) are very different, etc, etc.
When you've listened to this music constantly for some decades you can pass judgement. That you feel that they SOUND similar to you (if that is what you meant) just tells me that you haven't really LISTENED to this music at all. Which is okay by me as long as you don't say that these composers are similar.
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 01:52:49 AM
No it's not, and if you had any understanding of counterpoint as you claim in another thread you wouldn't claim it to be. Their contrapunctal technique is very different (as any textbook can tell you, eg in use of small motivic cells vs use of long themes, independence between parts, canonic technique etc etc in absurdum), their attidude towards dissonance differs, cadenctial tecniques vary considerably, relationship between words and music (the way that individual words and parts of words are related to individual notes etc) are very different, etc, etc.
When you've listened to this music constantly for some decades you can pass judgement. That you feel that they SOUND similar to you (if that is what you meant) just tells me that you haven't really LISTENED to this music at all. Which is okay by me as long as you don't say that these composers are similar.
You got me wrong. Of course they have differences as you stated but they don't sound as different as the composers of later centuries. I admit I am not an expert of renaissance music. I have never claimed to be. I am more a baroque nut.
Btw, I think Obrecht sounded most interesting...
Post by: maswot on September 20, 2008, 04:29:42 AM
I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers. The church restricted artistical freedom so that's not surprising. The music is ok but not very interesting considering longer listening sessions. I wish they used instruments in church music to add color.
If you're interested in early music that stretches the ear, in terms of unexpected harmonies and intervals, then in addition to Gesualdo previously mentioned, you should check out Richafort's Requiem. There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas. These early composers were breaking new ground and figuring out what worked and what didn't, so they were not at all artistically repressed, at least not in the sense that we think of it today. The church was then, and to a certain extent always has been, a place of vastly divergent opinions on just about everything, with one faction in favor during one period and a rival faction gaining the upper hand in the next. There was a lot of creative thinking going on back then, and the mere fact that these composers were starting to be known by name is itself an indication of the rise of the individual during this period. A lot of these early composers were remarkably inventive, and in some of them you can find things that did not reappear again until Bartok. -- Marc
PS. For anyone looking for a great introduction to music from this period, check out the Tallis Scholar's recording of the Allegri Miserere.
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 04:34:32 AM
You got me wrong.Okay, I accept that. But what I want to take issue with is the expectation that these differences will be obvious for an occasional listener unaccustomed to the idiom. For someone totally unaccustomed to classical music Elgar and Racmaninov/ff might sound quite similar, too.
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 04:35:36 AM
There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas.
Paul van Nevel/Huelgas Ensemble. Very sumptuous recording, indeed.
Post by: Kullervo on September 20, 2008, 04:39:19 AM
If you're interested in early music that stretches the ear, in terms of unexpected harmonies and intervals, then in addition to Gesualdo previously mentioned, you should check out Richafort's Requiem. There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas. These early composers were breaking new ground and figuring out what worked and what didn't, so they were not at all artistically repressed, at least not in the sense that we think of it today. The church was then, and to a certain extent always has been, a place of vastly divergent opinions on just about everything, with one faction in favor during one period and a rival faction gaining the upper hand in the next. There was a lot of creative thinking going on back then, and the mere fact that these composers were starting to be known by name is itself an indication of the rise of the individual during this period. A lot of these early composers were remarkably inventive, and in some of them you can find things that did not reappear again until Bartok. -- Marc
PS. For anyone looking for a great introduction to music from this period, check out the Tallis Scholar's recording of the Allegri Miserere.
Yes, but Gesualdo et. al. came more than a hundred years after Dufay, Ockeghem, et. al. It's the same as the difference between Bach and Mendelssohn (well, that's a bit hyperbolic, but you get my point).
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 06:23:38 AM
Okay, I accept that. But what I want to take issue with is the expectation that these differences will be obvious for an occasional listener unaccustomed to the idiom. For someone totally unaccustomed to classical music Elgar and Racmaninov/ff might sound quite similar, too.
I don't listen to much renaissance music so I am somewhat unaccustomed. That's why it all sounds similar to me, okay? ::)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 06:36:50 AM
I don't listen to much renaissance music so I am somewhat unaccustomed. That's why it all sounds similar to me, okay? ::)
Just my point. That's an subjective impression and noone can argue with that. But what you actually said was that they WERE similar:
It's all very similar, not much difference between composers.
which is an objective judgment, which I found wrong. I have no problem with them SOUNDING similar to you (which they don't to me).
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 07:19:46 AM
Some cds of music of this period I have acquired recently and greatly enjoyed are:
(http://static.musicload.de/cov/m/230/5/cover/01/57/0000000000015711/0730099431026_7ec0caa5ba32e6f785796b1d82b8a5f7.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FPK57JCPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 07:23:21 AM
In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 07:29:03 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411K1AS0ABL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)Same for me.
In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.
Post by: Lethevich on September 20, 2008, 08:17:58 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FPK57JCPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I love that label, so many quality works, and they're generally available for very little on Amazon Marketplace, etc.
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 08:27:01 AM
Just my point. That's an subjective impression and noone can argue with that. But what you actually said was that they WERE similar:
which is an objective judgment, which I found wrong. I have no problem with them SOUNDING similar to you (which they don't to me).
Similar is not identical. Two things can have differencies AND similaries at the same time. Renaissance church music is based heavily on contrapuntal composing techniques. In that sense it all is "similar". The different variations of contrapuntal technique bring differencies. With renaissance music the ratio of similarities and differences is greater than that of say music of romantic period. I didn't mean my statement to be objective. When do you people learn that what I say is my subjective opinion and nothing more?
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 08:31:08 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411K1AS0ABL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.
Too bad it's expensive 5 CD box set, little overkill for someone who just wants to try out this composer... :P
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 08:32:56 AM
you should check out Richafort's Requiem.
oh, thanks for the hint
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 08:52:25 AM
Too bad it's expensive 5 CD box set, little overkill for someone who just wants to try out this composer... :P
There's a cd on Naxos with Dufay chansons. I have that as well -- maybe not quite as good as the complete set on Oiseau-Lyre, but still quite well performed and enjoyable. So if the 5 cd set is overkill for you, begin with the Naxos cd and see how you like it.
(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/553458.gif)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 09:10:46 AM
Post by: Kullervo on September 20, 2008, 09:53:44 AM
Most Early Music Recordings on Naxos (at least of the good selection I have heard) are good value. Best value of all however, were the 5 (or 6) CD selection of Ockeghem masses (not quite complete alas) on ASV that used to be cheaply available.
Is this the same thing?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61DVQTT7AFL._SS500_.jpg)
I got it when it was around $20, but now it's going for more than twice that amount. You can still download it fairly cheaply.
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 11:31:38 AM
Is this the same thing?Yes it is. About what I paid.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61DVQTT7AFL._SS500_.jpg)
I got it when it was around $20, but now it's going for more than twice that amount. You can still download it fairly cheaply.
Post by: Que on September 22, 2008, 12:07:56 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M-trswUUL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Josquin - Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae
The finest Mass out of the entire Renaissance IMO.... Finally something with real depth.
I do agree thart Josquin wrote some of the most interesting masses of the renaissance, and his compositional language is not as "strange" to us as the composers of a preceding generation in that more attention is paid to harmonic content while not sacrificing the superb counterpoint. The Sei Voci recordings are now collected in a cheap 6 CD box which I consider nearly mandatory if you have any interest in the period at all. However my favorite mass (while not in any way claiming it superior to others) is the Beate Virgine.
Found it! (Mouthwatering.... ;D) Thanks for the recommendations. :)
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0822186089064.jpg)
Josquin Desprez: Missa l'homme armé sexti toni; Missa l'homme armé supervoces musicales; Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae; Missa Gaudeamus; Messe Ave Maris Stella; Missa De Beata Virgine; Missa Pange Lingua; Deus, In Nomine Tuo Salvum Me FAC; Inviolata, Integra, Et Casta Es, Maria; Miserere Mei, Deus; Motets A La Vierge; Motets.
Martini: Perfunde Coelie Rore
Dupre: Chi A Martelo Dio Gl'Il Toglia
Q
Post by: Que on September 26, 2008, 11:45:38 PM
click picture for more samples
Out of curiosity, wanting to expand in medieval music, I recently got this and it seems I have stumbled upon a very distinctive, if not controversial recording! :)
The issue at hand will become clear just to listen to the samples. Pérès approaches this work in a special way in terms of ornamentation and pitch, with slurring notes, modulation with "micro-intervals". The effect is by some described as Orientalism, but it reminds me of Byzantine/Orthodox singing. I'm a novice in Medieval Music and Machaut but the issue (and controversy) seems very adequately described in the editorial and customer reviews on Amazon.com: HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Ensemble-Organum-Marcel/dp/B0000007AY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1222503721&sr=1-2).
In the end my feelings are that this approach maybe takes a moment to get used to - and maybe some never never will, as Corey noted earlier: opinions are much divided on this - but for me the result is convincing and rewarding. This is definitely something else... 8) Still, this work by Machaut is so beautiful and intriguing that I definitely will add another take to it, maybe by my favourite Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Cantus)? :)
Q
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 27, 2008, 07:57:27 AM
Maybe it's coming around to it again in the last month or so: have been listening to Hildegard von Bingen and have been getting acquainted with Machaut's motets. As quite a few people have mentioned, Machaut's motets are quite stunning. I have the Hilliard cd and I understand the version on the Zig-Zag label is very different, much more rough-edged and emotional. I may get that as well.
A cd of late Medieval music which is also quite interesting is this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QZ0BHM9QL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: Que on September 28, 2008, 12:12:37 AM
Click picture for more samples
A real winner here!! :)
A 3CD-set with Victoria's polyphonic settings for the Holy Week - Palm Sunday and subsequent days before Easter. The music consists of 37 pieces and includes antiphones and verses in plainchant. I'm absolutely baffled by the quality of the music and the performances the vocal ensembles La Columbina & Schola Antiqua. Strongly recommended! :)
Q
A review from Fanfare:
This is the sixth comprehensive approach to Tomás Luis de Victoria’s massive collection of music for Holy Week, published in 1585 as the composer was leaving Rome after 20 years there. The Officium Defunctorum of 1605, his final work, is the only rival work to be considered as his greatest masterpiece. But while we have had many sets of the 18 responsories for Tenebrae and almost as many sets of the nine lamentations, the most familiar elements of the Holy Week volume, the other pieces of this collection have been recorded more fitfully, and the two Passions (St. Matthew for Palm Sunday and St. John for Good Friday) have had the least attention of all.
Most recently, on Champeaux CSM 0001 (Jade C 332), recorded in 1991, Jean-Paul Gipon gave us the eight motets and a complete St. John Passion, the only set that presented the Improperia (“Popule meus”) with all the chant verses and, like Silos, added cantillation, or simple chant tones, of the 18 lessons of the second and third nocturns. This time the Improperia are not as complete as Gipon’s set (like Silos, this set includes only some of the chant verses), and both Passions are abridged. Uniquely among all these sets, we hear a chant antiphon and a versicle at the beginning of each of the nine nocturns, and a few other very familiar chant antiphons from the services. Cabré directs the polyphony, while Asensio directs the chant segments, using Roman books of 1586/87 and a 1515 book from Toledo for the two Spanish chants. Both have proved their expertise and scholarship in previous recordings of polyphony and chant, respectively.
The recording was made at San Miguel in Cuenca during three concerts of the Festival of Sacred Music in 2004. This makes it easier to understand why the two Passions, which consist of the crowd’s exclamations, set to polyphony within the traditional cantillation of the Passion narrative, were abridged. Long stretches of cantillation that are not interrupted by the crowd were ripe for omission, but what was left still showed well enough how the polyphony fit into the narration. I would have liked the complete Improperia as Gipon alone gave us, but that was not done. Still, this superb set now ranks at the top of the competition. The vocal ensemble is preferable to the solo voices on Spanish Columbia, and their singing is superior to Gipon’s group, the only other version on CD. Asensio directs the chant with attention to the variant version that was used at the time as well as to semiological interpretation, all done with an attractively unaffected style of singing. Cabré, who has sung in many early-music ensembles for years, is a capable director of the eight-voice ensemble (two of his recordings of Salazar’s music with another ensemble have just appeared).
The sound captured in the former church is ideal, warm without being overly resonant. The presentation is attractive, a slipcase containing three thin jewel boxes and a 64- page booklet that includes two notes. Do not overlook this magnificent achievement.
J. F. Weber
Post by: The new erato on September 28, 2008, 12:18:10 AM
Do not overlook this magnificent achievement.I haven't. ;D
Some of the first renaissance music to catch my attention was Victorias Lamentations for Easter, and I've since also heard some of it live. Of course I have this set.
Post by: adamdavid80 on October 06, 2008, 07:35:18 AM
What other works are highlights featuring Thornton?
Post by: Que on October 26, 2008, 02:27:47 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0794881854523.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7541635?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
This is imo a fantastic recording, but caveat emptor - it will assuredly NOT be to everyone's taste. Pérès' ensemble heavily ornaments the vocal line with Byzantine-flavored melismas and microtonal intervals. I find the results totally convincing and very exciting - this is my personal favorite recorded version of this early masterpiece.
Those were my sentiments as well. :)
Q
Post by: val on October 27, 2008, 02:18:01 AM
The recordings of the Studio der frühe Musik were also very good, dedicated to the Troubadours, Adam de la Halle, Wolkenstein, Machaut, but, with the exception of the last two, I cannot find them in CD.
The recording of Carmina Burana by the Clemencic Consort is very exciting.
The Cantigas of Santa Maria by Savall and Machaut's Messe de Notre Dame by the Hilliard are other great moments.
Post by: Drasko on December 15, 2008, 05:13:43 PM
Just heard excerpt of this on radio, and though my familiarity with the style is none I quite liked how it sounded. Went to put it in shopping basket and then noticed there are quite a few discs with Peres performing various pre-gregorian types of chant. Is anyone familiar with these discs, what would be the basic differences between them and which would be recommendable? Thanks in advance!
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMA1951604.jpg) (http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMA1951218.jpg)
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMA1951295.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411EJQNQV8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Corsican and Mozarabic chant discs seem to be out of print.
Post by: Que on January 26, 2009, 03:23:10 AM
Found it! (Mouthwatering.... ;D) Thanks for the recommendations. :)
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0822186089064.jpg)
Got this a while ago and already commented a few times on the Listening thread.
But for just the record: a truly great composer in terrific, emotionally intense and non-smooth/lively performances. REVIEW (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2007/Feb07/Desprez_a_sei_voce_E8906.htm)
Must-have IMO. Thanks again for the posters on this thread for recommending it! :)
NOW: another request. This time on Paul van Nevel and the Huelgas Ensemble.
I got hold of an old-fashioned sampler disc. :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61CCAVBSSWL._SS500_.jpg)
Very enjoyable. On hearing excerpts of several discs the outstanding recording quality was particularly striking. Musically speaking I found of the CDs covered the excerpts of these discs the most appealing:
(http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf700/f795/f79515k5s44.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G1HZGNQBL._SS500_.jpg)(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/4c/59/cf96319f8da0c714f3fd6110.L.jpg)
Any comments or additional recommendations? :) :)
Q
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 07:07:53 AM
;D
A thread to discuss Baroque music in general and that which preceded it. History, HIP, recommended recordings, composers, whatever...
(I did a quick search and could not find a thread specifically like this one. I'm sure if there is one, Que will duly rap my cyber-knuckles with his cyber-ruler.)
Yup, you are braver man than I am to start such a thread without going through our official GMG Baroque Gate Keeper, Dave, but I hope you success with this thread. And do not let him push you around with takes such as "You know Dave, we do have a Northern High Altitude Italian Baroque Music Written in The First Two Weeks of March 1660" thread. ;D
Post by: Todd on February 17, 2009, 07:12:46 AM
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 07:16:33 AM
I always considered "early" music to be pre-Baroque. And until recently I've tried very little. But the stuff I've started listening to recently is very good. John Dowland is excellent, William Byrd, too. But so far, for me, Cristobal de Morales is the best I've found in early music. Some amazing music that I need to explore more.
Thanks, Todd. I've been meaning to try some Byrd, mainly due to his association with Purcell, whom I enjoy. Dowland I haven't gotten around to yet. and Morales is a new name for me so I appreciate you dropping it here.
Any specific recordings we should look for from these composers?
Post by: Todd on February 17, 2009, 07:21:19 AM
Any specific recordings we should look for from these composers?
I've covered some in my "new" music log, except for Byrd - I'm still winding my way through his complete keyboard set on Hyperion, which is quite good. (I'm too lazy to look up the disc names on my own.)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 07:25:23 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EVXe%2BDqTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N50mNXOxL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/613ozT1BtDL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 17, 2009, 07:40:36 AM
A thread to discuss Baroque music in general and that which preceded it.
Good luck with this thread. A couple years ago I started some threads on some early composers (Schein, Schütz, Zelenka) and got only a handful of replies. (Most of those on the Schütz thread were about how to put the ü in his name)
There are still big gaps in my knowledge, but after exploring a lot of music from this time, I've come to the conclusion that the late Renaissance-Baroque period produced more good composers and interesting music than any other, except for the 20th century. And it wasn't that long ago I was rather dismissive of it. Just goes to show that you shouldn't dismiss what you don't know.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 08:03:58 AM
Another thing to think about is your favorite early music artists and groups. For instance, as you may have noticed lately, I've been going on about His Majesty's Sagbutts and Cornetts and have been acquiring their recordings regardless of composer.
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 08:08:08 AM
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 08:09:02 AM
Heinrich Scheidemann (ca. 1595 – 1663) was a German organist and composer. He was the best-known composer for the organ in north Germany in the early to mid-17th century, and was an important forerunner of Dieterich Buxtehude and J.S. Bach.
Life
He was born in Wöhrden in Holstein. His father was an organist in both Wöhrden and Hamburg, and probably Scheidemann received some early instruction from him. Scheidemann studied with Sweelinck in Amsterdam from 1611 to 1614, and evidently was one of his favorite pupils, since Sweelinck dedicated a canon to him, prior to Scheidemann's return to Germany. By 1629, and possibly earlier, Scheidemann was in Hamburg as organist at the Catharinenkirche, a position which he held for more than thirty years, until his death in Hamburg in early 1663 during an outbreak of the plague.
Music and influence
Scheidemann was renowned as an organist and composer, as evidenced by the wide distribution of his works; more organ music by Scheidemann survives than by any other composer of the time. Unlike the other early Baroque German composers, such as Praetorius, Schütz, Scheidt, and Schein, each of whom wrote in most of the current genres and styles, Scheidemann wrote almost entirely organ music. A few songs survive, as well as some harpsichord pieces, but they are dwarfed by the dozens of organ pieces, many in multiple movements.
Scheidemann's lasting contribution to the organ literature, and to Baroque music in general, was in his Lutheran chorale settings, which were of three general types: cantus firmus chorale arrangements, which were an early type of chorale prelude; "monodic" chorale arrangements, which imitated the current style of monody—a vocal solo over basso continuo—but for solo organ; and elaborate chorale fantasias, which were a new invention, founded on the keyboard style of Sweelinck but using the full resources of the developing German Baroque organ. In addition to his chorale arrangements, he also wrote important arrangements of the Magnificat, which are not only in multiple parts but are in cyclic form towards liturgical use in alternation with the choir during the socalled Vespers, a technique in multiple-movement musical construction which was not to return with vigor until the 19th century. Among his students were Johann Adam Reincken, his successor at the St. Catharine Church in Hamburg and Dieterich Buxtehude.
Post by: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 08:13:18 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-NABlFa-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 08:16:45 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans). I have this recording:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-NABlFa-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
It's posts like this that demand that you are one of the top five "hippest cats" that post here JW.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 08:16:55 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans). I have this recording:
You get points from me for mentioning early music and detective fiction in the same post. ;D
Post by: Bulldog on February 17, 2009, 08:22:42 AM
What are bird stops, Don?
Stops allow wind pressure to go through specific organ pipes. In the case of a bird stop, a fluttering sound is heard.
Hopefully, there are a few organists on the board who can provide some detail.
Post by: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 08:32:32 AM
You get points from me for mentioning early music and detective fiction in the same post. ;D
Hey for a fellow Lew Archer fan, I can do no less. Though I tend to be more into the Holmes/Nero Wolfe school than hard-boiled myself. I've loved Parker's Spenser books for years though, and have recently tried (and liked) some Michael Connelly, so go figure.
Anyway, so as not to derail such an innocent young thread, I do actually own that Lassus disc. I also occasionally like Gregorian chant, and have a few other discs of medieval music which I like (click pics for link)...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/219AMHPQ4JL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
(http://www.amazon.com/Llibre-Vermell-De-Montserrat/dp/B0000034B8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234888095&sr=1-4) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510JCN2FPNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Loves-Illusion-Music-Montpellier-Codex-Century/dp/B0000007E5/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234888233&sr=1-10)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 08:36:36 AM
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 09:17:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510JCN2FPNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Loves-Illusion-Music-Montpellier-Codex-Century/dp/B0000007E5/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234888233&sr=1-10)
I have this one on the shelf JW. The Anonymous 4 would have been incredible to see live. Plus the liner notes that come with these discs are history lesson within themselves.
Post by: The new erato on February 17, 2009, 09:44:42 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans). I have this recording:The Missa Susanne un jour is a really wonderful example of Lassus' melodiousness, and the idea of basing a mass on un chanson of that subject is really hilarious. No wonder he had to write those wonderful penitential psalms towards the end of his life. Fine disc!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-NABlFa-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Post by: Père Malfait on February 17, 2009, 11:33:00 AM
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/advocatus_diaboli/Vogelgesang.jpg)
Post by: Bulldog on February 17, 2009, 12:36:50 PM
The birdsong stop (Vogelgesang, Nacthigall, Rossingol, Usignolo, et al.) is usually formed by several small pipes suspended upside down in a container of glycerin water (see picture). This arrangement makes a chirping, warbling sound that can, in the right acoustic (e.g. 1686 Schnitger organ in Norden), sound very realistic.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/advocatus_diaboli/Vogelgesang.jpg)
Looks just like the plumbing system in my old home. ;D
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 12:39:16 PM
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 01:18:44 PM
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 05:17:51 PM
I recommend this (and any Tallis CD, for that matter.) It looks like one of those silly comp CDs, but it's all complete works, by many of the great composers of the period:
(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/8/5/0/1/l10581.jpg)
Good call.
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 17, 2009, 07:25:28 PM
Also anything by Ensemble PAN who has made several recordings of the Ars Subtilior
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 08:36:20 PM
I have this one on the shelf JW. The Anonymous 4 would have been incredible to see live. Plus the liner notes that come with these discs are history lesson within themselves.
I have this set too. Excellent singing. Whenever MDT runs sales on Harmonia Mundi again this year, I will load up on the remaining A4 recordings I do not already have ...
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
I recommend this (and any Tallis CD, for that matter.) It looks like one of those silly comp CDs, but it's all complete works, by many of the great composers of the period:
(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/8/5/0/1/l10581.jpg)
This one is also lovely:
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iKafoK3HL._SS500_.jpg)
George, I have been under the impression you do not like anything vocal/choral? ???
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 08:44:36 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SS400_.jpg)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 08:48:57 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YZE9922AL._SS400_.jpg)
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 17, 2009, 08:58:58 PM
(http://a6.vox.com/6a00c225256b2c604a00d09e5a9636be2b-320pi)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31SY0AGJTZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 17, 2009, 09:15:41 PM
I recommend this (and any Tallis CD, for that matter.) It looks like one of those silly comp CDs, but it's all complete works, by many of the great composers of the period:
(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/8/5/0/1/l10581.jpg)
Yes, that is the first disc of Renaissance music anyone should get
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 05:54:10 AM
Maybe, for purposes of this thread, we can say pre-1700. If everyone agrees.
Check out these beauties, Dave:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4123ATY7HRL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://www.bluntinstrument.org.uk/biber/discography/1983/MaierBIG-LP.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J9SWQX4TL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5102MJCZ43L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4199RVYCKXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413FNPK3HEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410THSB21VL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515XB1nqUZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
The last three are post-1700 but not too much.
Post by: The new erato on February 18, 2009, 05:58:11 AM
Caldara should be exploited in depth by the record companies, a major Viennese baroque composer (along with Conti, and Vivaldi, who ended his career, broke, in Vienna).
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 06:05:17 AM
I guess I'm an early music nut. I actuallay have ALL these disc, the Maier Rosary sonatas excepted.
Great!
Caldara should be exploited in depth by the record companies, a major Viennese baroque composer (along with Conti, and Vivaldi, who ended his career, broke, in Vienna).
Actually, he was quite cosmopolitan and Viennese only by adoption: born in Venice, he spent his life in Mantua and Barcelona before settling in Vienna. :)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 06:07:17 AM
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 06:10:41 AM
Oh, my goodness. Where to begin...? ;D
Pick any. :)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 06:21:39 AM
I noticed lots were OOP at Amazon and had hefty prices through the marketplace sellers. I assume early music discs don't stay available too long.
I'm listening to this right now, and I'd recommend it to anyone:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/superd_1114840.jpg)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 06:38:57 AM
Someone who really puts the fresco in Frescobaldi? :)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on February 18, 2009, 06:44:01 AM
I would like to add Robert Fayrfax, an excellent polyphonic composer that I discovered a few months ago: glorious music.
I would start with this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61GC7VEQQZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: The new erato on February 18, 2009, 06:56:31 AM
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php) have an early music sale.
The triple is available at 19 Euro, and the singles at 7.50. This goes for their essential Ockeghem series as well, and the superb Obrecht -Missa Sub Tuum Praesidium.
Post by: mozartsneighbor on February 18, 2009, 06:59:28 AM
Be aware there's a cheap triple of Fayrfax available, might be a better solution than to go for individuale discs.
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php)have an early music sale.
The triple is available at 19 Euro, and the singles at 7.50. This goes for their essential Ockeghem series as well, and the superb Obrecht -Missa Sub Tuum Praesidium.
Many thanks -- I already have the Fayrfax triple. Now, the Ockeghem I don't have... thanks for the tip.
Post by: (: premont :) on February 18, 2009, 07:31:31 AM
Anyone wanna suggest a good Frescobaldi keyboard CD?
Someone who really puts the fresco in Frescobaldi? :)
I would suggest one of these three harpsichord CDs, preferably containing Toccatas:
Enrico Baiano on Symphonia
Scott Ross on Virgin
Pierre Hantaï on Astreé
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 12:15:55 PM
A number of recordings contain a few of the 20 suites - Savall recorded several; there are also some on the famous old DG Archiv "Renaissance Dance Music" LP - but I have never seen a complete recording of the whole thing. Some enterprising label should undertake to bring all of this austere yet vivacious music to us in a unified package.
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 12:31:14 PM
this austere yet vivacious music
Makes me very, very curious...
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 12:37:42 PM
Makes me very, very curious...
Here's what made me curious: this quote about Schein by Stephen Schwarz, which I found at Jim Moskowitz's Unknown Composers page:
"A respectable choral composer, but a wonderful instrumental composer, pre-Bach. There's an almost Romantic depth of introspection and melancholy in the music. Try the suites for mixed instruments."
By which I assume he means Banchetto Musicale, since I don't think Schein wrote any other instrumental suites.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 03:23:12 PM
Makes me very, very curious...
Me too.
Am I right in thinking that a lot of early music is more vocal-oriented than later music?
Post by: Bulldog on February 18, 2009, 03:51:38 PM
Me too.
Am I right in thinking that a lot of early music is more vocal-oriented than later music?
It also seems that most folks prefer early music vocal to pure instrumental.
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2009, 05:28:27 PM
At the present, I probably have nearly 200 CDs that fit into this 'Medieval-Renaissance' musical period; much of this music can be divided into 'secular' and 'sacred' categories, and also into pure vocal (a cappella) vs. instrumental or a combination) - I love it all!
So, hard for me to just start out w/ recommendations, but I've reviewed the previous posts (and already have much listed); so maybe a couple of compilations may be useful to those just getting started, so will post two collections from the recordings of David Munrow and the Early Music Consort of London - these are a great intro to this music (not sure if these are now OOP?):
The Art of Courtly Love - French secular music of 1300-1475; main composers include Guillaume de Machaut, Gilles Binchois, & Guillaume Dufay - these guys are some of the GREATS from this period!
The Art of the Netherlands - obviously more Northern European works (mainly 15th & 16th centuries); multiple and important composers of the time, i.e. Josquin Desprez, Johannes Ockeghem, Jacob Obrecht, et al - again, some of the greats from that era & geography.
Now, I have many additional discs of each of these composers, so will see 'how' this thread develops - would be interesting to form some kind of 'outline' to present this vast material! Dave :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/476401381_r4rXW-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/476401388_gbxPi-S.jpg)
Post by: KevinP on February 18, 2009, 06:12:55 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J9SWQX4TL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Love that disc. Listened to it yesterday. But this one is even better:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4110KKM34PL._SS500_.jpg)
The requiem sounds almost romantic--and Savall isn't one to romanticise early composers.
The Battalia sound downright postmodern (well, one movement anyway).
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 08:08:43 PM
Post by: Coopmv on February 18, 2009, 08:11:57 PM
Me too.
Am I right in thinking that a lot of early music is more vocal-oriented than later music?
Indeed, the instrumentation is also quite sparse, if that is the right term for it.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 08:19:47 PM
Also, does anyone know any good websites on this subject?
Thank you.
Post by: Coopmv on February 18, 2009, 08:23:45 PM
I'm curious, what's some of the earliest music available on disc?
Also, does anyone know any good websites on this subject?
Thank you.
Music of Hildegard of Bingen has to be among the earliest of the early music that was recorded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 08:28:42 PM
Music of Hildegard of Bingen has to be among the earliest of the early music that was recorded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen
Of course I've heard of her but I don't know her history so I'll read that link shortly, Coop.
I was messing around on Amazon and ran across the Unicorn Ensemble on Naxos. Anyone have their discs? Comments? Thank you.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 10:34:01 PM
Indeed, the instrumentation is also quite sparse, if that is the right term for it.
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.
Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).
Post by: sul G on February 19, 2009, 01:01:36 AM
I'm curious, what's some of the earliest music available on disc?
Well, there are discs which attempt to reconstruct ancient Greek music. I only have this one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YM26S40VL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
but sticking 'ancient greek' into Amazon revealed a couple more:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519FD914XNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21C6V32FTZL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
And then there are recordings of Byzantine chant, which dates back to the 400s IIRC. Stick 'keyrouz' into amazon to find a couple:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410SAXSG7EL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (I have this one)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31exKkubeFL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (I don't have this - it might be the same disc repackaged)
I'm not sure, however, is this is precisely what you meant...
Post by: sul G on February 19, 2009, 01:23:38 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61R9MF9GKNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Beg, borrow or steal a copy! Josquin has already hinted that music of this period - the late 14th century - is well worth focusing upon. Those few decades, in fact, provide the pre-Baroque music I return to most, again and again. This is the period of the 'ars subtilior', aka the 14th century avant garde, in which musical complexity and experimentation, especially in the area of rhythm, reached a level it would not return to for hundreds of years. The furthest extreme, perhaps, is Matteo da Perugia's Le greygnour bien, which is available on this disc in possibly the best of the four versions I have of it. Others worth trying in this area are:
(http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/classical_albums/cov200/cl000/l023/l02351gga3d.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/616VTNNF9AL._SL500_AA240_.gif) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gt-IRkT3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
though if you want to hear Le greygnour in an absolutely bonkers, superfast performance evidently meant to emphasize its oddness, try this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RJ05KZ5XL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (it's three albums reissued on two discs, and though it's old - early early music, if you like - it's charming and provides a good overview of the three areas it covers: Machaut, the aforementioned 14th century music, and Dufay)
I'm sure Josquin can provide some more recommendations.
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 01:54:38 AM
Of course I've heard of her but I don't know her history so I'll read that link shortly, Coop.
I was messing around on Amazon and ran across the Unicorn Ensemble on Naxos. Anyone have their discs? Comments? Thank you.
I have the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Unicorn Ensemble use their own period instruments to recreate the instrumentation with the Cantigas. Of course, the Cantigas do not have instrumental scoring but do have (as I recall from the facsimile) miniatures of the kinds of instruments used. There are some instrumental pieces on this recording and I presume that is taken from the vocal score. Overall, reasonably accomplished but nothing to rush out for.
Post by: sul G on February 19, 2009, 02:03:50 AM
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 02:05:38 AM
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.
Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).
Do you mean specified instrumentation with a vocal score? Of course there are many printed instrumental sources that predate this for lute (from 1507 I think) and keyboard e.g. Frottole intabulate da sonare organi (Antico 1517). Even earlier there are vocal scores that unambiguously imply instrumental accompaniment e.g. Adieu ces bons vins de Lanny (Dufay ?1426) where the score starts 4 bars (modern mensuration) before the text.
The comment was made that "early" music was predominantly vocal as opposed to instrumental. Although it is true to say that what comes down to us in printed sources is vocal scoring it is best not to forget the huge importance of instrumental music during this period. There are very few sources for how instruments were taught and even fewer examples of pedagogical music but illuminated miniatures in a variety of texts (even antiphons as I recall) demonstrate (at best) or suggest (at worst) that instrumental accompaniment was integral to music of the period. The instruments could improvise over the vocal line or even take the role of tenor or contratenor in a three part vocal score.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 19, 2009, 02:27:48 AM
Do you mean specified instrumentation with a vocal score? Of course there are many printed instrumental sources that predate this for lute (from 1507 I think) and keyboard e.g. Frottole intabulate da sonare organi (Antico 1517). Even earlier there are vocal scores that unambiguously imply instrumental accompaniment e.g. Adieu ces bons vins de Lanny (Dufay ?1426) where the score starts 4 bars (modern mensuration) before the text.
I'm talking about multi-instrumental music, not vocal scores or single-instrument stuff like keyboard music.
In e.g. the instrumental compositions of composers like Schein, Scheidt, Praetorius, Gabrieli or the like, instrumentation is usually flexible. I've heard sometimes the same piece realized by all-brass ensemble, or all-viol ensemble, or a mix of different types of instruments. Composers generally didn't specify, although we can sometimes make assumptions from other known facts. For instance, it's known that the permanent ensemble of St. Mark's when Gabrieli was there consisted mainly of cornetts and sackbuts (early brass), so it's a fair assumption that Gabrieli had a brass-dominated ensemble in mind for his canzonas.
There are some pieces of that time, though, that do specify the instruments to be used. Sonata pian' e forte is one; another is Massaino's Canzona for 8 Trombones.
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 03:28:24 AM
I'm talking about multi-instrumental music, not vocal scores or single-instrument stuff like keyboard music.
In e.g. the instrumental compositions of composers like Schein, Scheidt, Praetorius, Gabrieli or the like, instrumentation is usually flexible. I've heard sometimes the same piece realized by all-brass ensemble, or all-viol ensemble, or a mix of different types of instruments. Composers generally didn't specify, although we can sometimes make assumptions from other known facts. For instance, it's known that the permanent ensemble of St. Mark's when Gabrieli was there consisted mainly of cornetts and sackbuts (early brass), so it's a fair assumption that Gabrieli had a brass-dominated ensemble in mind for his canzonas.
There are some pieces of that time, though, that do specify the instruments to be used. Sonata pian' e forte is one; another is Massaino's Canzona for 8 Trombones.
Okay, I see. I Know that "Instrumental Music Printed Before 1600" (Harvard University Press) is pretty much the standard source for this stuff but I don't have it to hand so can't comment further (not that I'm disagreeing with you but specifically lute ensembles-most notably duos-certainly predate 1597 if that counts).
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 19, 2009, 05:32:26 AM
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.
Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).
There is a Vihuela literature from the earlier
El Maestro by Luis de Milán (1536)
Los seys libros del Delphin by Luis de Narváez (1538)
Tres Libros de Música by Alonso Mudarra (1546)
Silva de sirenas by Enríquez de Valderrábano (1547)
Libro de música de Vihuela by Diego Pisador (1552)
Orphénica Lyra by Miguel de Fuenllana (1554)
El Parnasso by Estevan Daça (1576).
http://www.youtube.com/v/iYOFviCC7DA
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 06:13:50 AM
There is a Vihuela literature from the earlier
El Maestro by Luis de Milán (1536)
Los seys libros del Delphin by Luis de Narváez (1538)
Tres Libros de Música by Alonso Mudarra (1546)
Silva de sirenas by Enríquez de Valderrábano (1547)
Libro de música de Vihuela by Diego Pisador (1552)
Orphénica Lyra by Miguel de Fuenllana (1554)
El Parnasso by Estevan Daça (1576).
Co-incidentally La Cancion del Emperador (actually a rearrangement of Mille Regrets by Josquin) is a piece I'm polishing up myself at the moment. I love the Vihuela repertoire and am really fortunate in that I have access to the Pujol editions of the Milan (both volumes) and the Narvaez, among others. Pisador, however, I find a bit dry and academic.
Anyone who wants to play through some of these can probably get them online for free or the best are available in a Pujol edited anthology "Hispanae Citharae Ars Viva" that includes Pisador-Pavana muy llana, Villanesca; Valderrabano-Soneto I & II; Milan-Fantasia del quarto tono, Fantasia de consonancias y redobles; Mudarra-Gallarda, Diferencias Conde Claros, Fantsia de Ludovico; Narvaez-Cancion del Emperador, Baxa de contrapunto, Diferencias Guardame las Vacas, and Tres diferencias por otra parte.
As for recordings, well Hopkinson Smith has done quite a lot of vihuela repertoire and is really the benchmark but I'll always have a soft spot for this
http://www.youtube.com/v/Upd8HJxYeb0
Superb!!
Post by: Drasko on February 19, 2009, 03:11:15 PM
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/GLO5226.jpg)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 19, 2009, 06:45:11 PM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/GLO5226.jpg)
This might be why...Regarding that recording: "This release completes the hugely successful cycle of choral music by Gesualdo, the first project of this music to be completed in 40 years."
If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years?
I can find bits of book six compiled with others, but not a whole volume like you show. I checked for about 20 minutes at several online locations.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 19, 2009, 06:58:36 PM
When will the membership cards be sent out, Dave? There's a Renaissance fair coming to town soon and I'd ike to use the card to get 20% on afternoon jousting. ;D
Ah, Renaissance fairs, with the turkey legs, the juggling and the bad British accents. ;D
Post by: Coopmv on February 19, 2009, 07:43:33 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hASgi1mSL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NP242PFEL._SS400_.jpg)
Here are some older recordings that have been in my collection for a while.
I wonder that conductor Ratzinger may be related to Pope Benedict?
Post by: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 06:22:37 AM
This might be why...Regarding that recording: "This release completes the hugely successful cycle of choral music by Gesualdo, the first project of this music to be completed in 40 years."
If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years?
I can find bits of book six compiled with others, but not a whole volume like you show. I checked for about 20 minutes at several online locations.
I'm not the most knowledgable person here when it comes to madrigals, but I think that quote means that no one has recorded the complete cycle in last 40 years, not that it took them 40 years.
Anyhow, it really looks like that is only choice for complete 6th book (there are at least two choices per any other of books 1-5).
Glossa site claims La Venexiana is planning whole cycle, but their concert schedule for 2009 has no Gesualdo at all (Buxtehude and Monteverdi mostly) and that is usualy good hint for recording plans.
At least Les Arts Florissants/Christie Gesualdo disc with mixed selection is scheduled for re-release on Harmonia Mundi Gold series next month, was oop and fetching silly prices on amazon.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YAz6bRW4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 20, 2009, 06:26:37 AM
I'm not the most knowledgable person here when it comes to madrigals, but I think that quote means that no one has recorded the complete cycle in last 40 years, not that it took them 40 years.
Heh. That's what I meant.
"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to record another]?"
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 20, 2009, 06:34:37 AM
At least Les Arts Florissants/Christie Gesualdo disc with mixed selection is scheduled for re-release on Harmonia Mundi Gold series next month, was oop and fetching silly prices on amazon.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YAz6bRW4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Great. I hate silly prices.
Post by: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 06:34:58 AM
Heh. That's what I meant.
"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to record another]?"
Sorry. I thought you meant:
"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"
My english comprehension isn't always up to much.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 20, 2009, 06:36:58 AM
Sorry. I thought you meant:
"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"
My english comprehension isn't always up to much.
Mine neither. ;)
Post by: Que on February 21, 2009, 05:36:33 AM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?
Here is one other: by the Quintetto Vocale Italiano on Rivo Alto. Old recordings (early '60s), and judging from this comment (http://www.entsharing.com/music/classical/carlo-gesualdo-madrigals-for-5-voices-books-1-to-5-1990/) not very HIP, not worthwhile.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/e4/de/c6df729fd7a00660a74de010.L.jpg)
But note that La Venexiana is working on a cycle as well - Books IV & V issued:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209343.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209350.jpg)
I have the recording of Book V: very impressive, catches the fascinating but disturbing quality of the music admirably.
Don't know the Kassiopeia Quintet, but it can't be bad - they're Dutch! ;D ;)
Q
Post by: Coopmv on February 21, 2009, 05:52:09 AM
Sorry. I thought you meant:
"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"
My english comprehension isn't always up to much.
We should be happy that we can still find recordings of these works. After all, these recordings do not exactly win any popularity contests ...
Post by: Coopmv on February 21, 2009, 05:13:21 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uMaIq%2BExL._SS500_.jpg)
Post by: Drasko on February 22, 2009, 06:04:01 AM
Here is one other: by the Quintetto Vocale Italiano on Rivo Alto. Old recordings (early '60s), and judging from this comment (http://www.entsharing.com/music/classical/carlo-gesualdo-madrigals-for-5-voices-books-1-to-5-1990/) not very HIP, not worthwhile.
Thanks! I'll check it out anyhow.
Quote
But note that La Venexiana is working on a cycle as well - Books IV & V issued:
Working perhaps, but the progress is snail like. Wasn't their Book V recorded something like 4-5 years ago?
Quote
Don't know the Kassiopeia Quintet, but it can't be bad - they're Dutch! ;D ;)
Well, only 2/5 Dutch, but they do sound ok to my untrained ears. Maybe someone more versed in this type of music could provide better observation, since they offer few decent quality samples at their website.
http://www.kassiopeiaquintet.com/index.php?17 (http://www.kassiopeiaquintet.com/index.php?17)
Post by: Coopmv on February 22, 2009, 06:18:42 AM
Would you care to make a comment on it? :)
Q
This John Dowland Collected Works is a box set of 12 CD's which were previously released from the lately 70's through the 80's. I think the music is excellent and as always, Emma Kirkby provides some exquisite singing ...
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 22, 2009, 08:59:42 AM
Post by: canninator on February 23, 2009, 01:50:12 AM
Would you care to make a comment on it? :)
Q
For what it's worth, Rooley is an excellent player but I would place him at the bottom of the pile of the crop of Dowland lute solo cycles. In my opinion the Jacob Lindberg (now available on Brilliant) is superlative and the Nigel North (Naxos) and Paul O'Dette (Harmonia Mundi) are also worth a crack.
The Lindberg in particular has a smoother rounder tone and the bass courses are used to much greater effect. Musically, Linderberg makes much greater use of dynamic contrast between contrapuntal and florid passages to scintillating effect. This effect is weaker in the Rooley and he also has the somewhat annoying (at least for me) habit of spreading his arpeggios really wide so the pulse of the music sounds wayward even if it is not played thus.
That leaves the problem of what to choose for lute and voice. The recent collaboration between Elizabeth Kenny (please, Elizabeth, can we have a Dowland lute cycle from you) and Mark Padmore (Tenor) on Hyperion is, to my ears, the best collection of lute songs. It's only one disc so the collection is small but all his number one hits are there plus an excellent recording of Britten's Nocturnal after Dowland played by Craig Ogden.
So go with Jacob Lindberg on Brilliant and Kenny/Padmore/Ogden on Hyperion for some songs and you can't go wrong.
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 23, 2009, 05:22:19 AM
In my opinion the Jacob Lindberg (now available on Brilliant) is superlative...
Thanks. Just ordered it.
Post by: Coopmv on February 23, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
For what it's worth, Rooley is an excellent player but I would place him at the bottom of the pile of the crop of Dowland lute solo cycles.
I have to check to see if I have any recordings by Elizabeth Kenny. But the most beautiful parts of this set are the solo pieces by Emma Kirkby and I am not convinced Kenny can top her ...
Post by: canninator on February 24, 2009, 12:59:12 AM
I have to check to see if I have any recordings by Elizabeth Kenny. But the most beautiful parts of this set are the solo pieces by Emma Kirkby and I am not convinced Kenny can top her ...
I have no problem with Emma Kirby's singing although I much prefer my Dowland with tenor or countertenor. Elizabeth Kenny is Professor of Lute at the Royal Academy not a singer.
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 27, 2009, 02:32:03 PM
Yes, my tastes seem to be travelling backward through time. 8) Chopin and earlier: that's pretty much me, lately.
Dave - LOL! ;D The Middle Ages/Renaissance have fascinated me for years, including the music - bought the book below a few years ago (got a used copy - Norton is the publisher and they always want so much $$!) - if interested, try a library borrow - an excellent book on the topic - :D Dave
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R9DJ7G6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 27, 2009, 03:23:20 PM
Dave - LOL! ;D The Middle Ages/Renaissance have fascinated me for years, including the music - bought the book below a few years ago (got a used copy - Norton is the publisher and they always want so much $$!) - if interested, try a library borrow - an excellent book on the topic - :D Dave
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R9DJ7G6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
I'll look for it. Thanks much.
Post by: Coopmv on February 27, 2009, 06:13:43 PM
I have no problem with Emma Kirby's singing although I much prefer my Dowland with tenor or countertenor. Elizabeth Kenny is Professor of Lute at the Royal Academy not a singer.
Sorry, I must have confused her with Catherine Denley ... ;D
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 28, 2009, 12:28:06 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51x9QIv34JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: Coopmv on February 28, 2009, 02:37:49 PM
Ha! Wrong image. ;D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51x9QIv34JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I thought it was some Renaissance work in praise of Lucifer. But then, it would have been awfully surprising that the composer had not been burned at the stake before he would have had to chance to publish his work ... ;D
Post by: canninator on March 02, 2009, 02:03:26 AM
Dave - LOL! ;D The Middle Ages/Renaissance have fascinated me for years, including the music - bought the book below a few years ago (got a used copy - Norton is the publisher and they always want so much $$!) - if interested, try a library borrow - an excellent book on the topic - :D Dave
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R9DJ7G6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
Yes, this is an excellent book. If you can, get the anthology to go alongside with plenty of excellent musical examples.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F1B7TD45L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Also worth a look is the Howard Brown, not as heavy going
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71HVYJKX3YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.gif)
If you are looking for something to function as both the ultimate guide to renaissance music and a doorstop then you can't do better than Gustave Reese
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5109GTSWHCL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
If your particular forte is instrumental music of the period then don't expect too much from any of these books, you then need to go to specialist texts.
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 02, 2009, 04:35:26 PM
Post by: Coopmv on March 08, 2009, 05:16:58 AM
Since this is not the Listening thread, an additional comment would be welcome. :)
Q
It is serene and inspirational with excellent polyphony. It is the second CD by the group The Cardinall's Musick I have had the chance to listen to. The singing is great ...
Post by: (: premont :) on March 31, 2009, 10:59:53 AM
What's on it? Medieval stuff? :)
Q
This New York based group has made two CDs for Lyrichord, both containing medieval dance music. Together they cover almost all the surviving music (which is very little) in this category. The first contains the instrumental pieces from the so called Royal Manuscript (French, early 1300, the pieces probably a bit older), consisting of the eight monodic Estampies Royales and a few similar two-part pieces. They sound somewhat archaic. The other CD contains the Istampittas from an Italian manuscript, which is a little younger than the French, and accordingly the pieces sound a little more modern, some of them obviously influenced by Arabic music. Many of the pieces are well known, even by people who are not aware of that. The CDs in question are interesting for historical reasons, but I have heard much more engaging interpretations e.g. by the English Guillaume Dufay ensemble (first CD on Avie, second CD on Chandos).
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 31, 2009, 01:36:22 PM
A gift from my wife:
(http://208.131.143.232/i/1/0/5/1/4/5/4.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BMC9NX3BL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Bill & Que - I have that disc above (left) and also a companion CD (inserted, right) - Premont has already given some discussion in his post; I've not listened to these discs in a while but enjoy these more 'ancient' instruments; the inserted disc contains 13th century French & English Dances + 14th century Italian Dances - all instrumental music w/ a wide variety of instruments (and in various combinations), e.g. shawms, flutes, harp, dulcimer, recorder, rebec, vielles , bagpipes, drums, and others; plenty of interesting pics in the booklet notes which are quite extensive - just returned from a 'too short' vacation to FL and OFF tomorrow, so will give them a listen! Dave :)
Post by: Que on April 12, 2009, 11:10:33 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UCUEM4Q0L._SS500_.jpg)
How is it Q? Mine's on order. :D
Then you should go for the two cheap doubles by the Tallis Scholas on Gimell called Tudor Church Music 1 & 2. I find them even better than this fine Tallis set.
This is by far the best Tallis I heard for years, including the much lauded Gimell recordings, which I never much liked.
It's a very nice set. Tallis is no Desprez, but who is? :) And it's interesting for me to hear the British Renaissance School.
Performances and recordings are excellent. The set comes with a CD-ROM with full liner notes and texts on a pdf file - 75 pages! :o (conveniently in A4 format)
There is a bit of piecemeal on that set - I find that he excels in the motets more than any other area. But he is somewhat less of a rounded composer than Byrd, for example, although it doesn't help that less of his music has survived.
Still happy with the set. This particular disc (disc V) also contains Tallis' surviving organ music, played on a very pretty sounding early 17th century organ.
The music is very nice, though I guess I will not delve into choral music from the British Renaissance Music too deeply. I'm just more stirred by the Franco-Belgians, Iberians and Italians. But I will check out that other famous British Renaissance composer: William Byrd. :)
Q
Post by: The new erato on April 12, 2009, 11:29:44 PM
Post by: Que on April 12, 2009, 11:37:02 PM
The high renaissance laks the grit and dissonance that the earlier renaissance provides, and therefore in my ears often sounds plainly "too pretty". I share your preference (in general) for the earlier generations, with some exceptions (the Spanish for their wonderfully ecstatic and "mystic" sounds, Lassus for his tunefullness). I find Talllis "too smooth" as well (I have owned this sett for some time) (...)
I didn't put it as plainly as that, but I cannot say that I much disagree either... ::) 8)
Thanks for the alternative suggestions! :)
Q
Post by: Lethevich on April 12, 2009, 11:50:36 PM
Dunstaple would definitely be more of interest to one who prefers the Franco-Flemmish style - I find this disc (http://www.amazon.com/John-Dunstaple-Musician-Plantagenets-Orlando/dp/B000002K3V/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239612314&sr=1-1) to be immaculate.
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 13, 2009, 02:36:58 PM
Dunstaple would definitely be more of interest to one who prefers the Franco-Flemmish style - I find this disc (http://www.amazon.com/John-Dunstaple-Musician-Plantagenets-Orlando/dp/B000002K3V/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239612314&sr=1-1) to be immaculate.
Sara - hey, I have that disc, also - need to give it a spin, though! Dave :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MYZ4CP7CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: The new erato on April 13, 2009, 07:50:54 PM
Sara - hey, I have that disc, also - need to give it a spin, though! Dave :DI have it as well but it seems to have got AWOL in the collection somewhere, when that happens only time will tell how and where it resurfaces. Probably misfiled.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MYZ4CP7CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: Lethevich on April 13, 2009, 11:53:18 PM
A particular appeal of that disc as I recall is how clearly the lines come through. Compared to an ensemble such as the Hilliards, the acoustic hampers the music much less - in the Veni Sancte Spiritus motet it almost sounded like the two were singing different things.
Post by: The new erato on April 14, 2009, 02:01:16 AM
Post by: Coopmv on April 14, 2009, 04:06:53 PM
I found a disc of Robert Fayrfax masses which I had missed for 6 months inside a Norah Jones album recently. How is THAT for misfiling?
How do you like the Fayrfax masses? I bought the following works by Fayrfax a few weeks ago from MDT, all on the Gaudeamus label ...
Missa O quam glorifica, Ave Deo patris filia
Missa Tecum principium, Maria plena virtute
Missa Albanus, O Maria Deo grata, Eterne laudis lilium
Missa O bone Ihesu, Salve regina, Magnificat O bone Ihesu
Missa Regali ex progenie, Lauda vivi Alpha et O
Post by: The new erato on April 14, 2009, 09:47:54 PM
Post by: Que on April 22, 2009, 10:25:22 PM
I've been through this whole set, time for some conclusions. :) See for previous comments by several of us HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg298111.html#msg298111).
A fine set and beautiful music. My first encounter with British Renaissance and Tallis' music is artfully crafted, and the effect is ethereal, introvert, lush and pleasing. As mentioned before, by erato I believe, what it does not have is grit, and I would add: edge and strong "earthy" emotions. Musically I found the later choral works all the more interesting, say the last 2-3 discs of them. Spem in Alium is a true masterpiece. I personally much liked to hear the instrumental works, notably the harpsichord and organ works. All music here is idiomatically performed with dedication and performances leave little to be desired.
So. :) Do you need a complete Tallis set? ::) From a musical point of view: No. Though it's all excellent music I suppose a good 2-3 CD collection of the later choral works would do, including the Spem in Alium naturally. But at this price this quality set won't hurt either, even if you would listen to the "extras" not that often.
Q
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 23, 2009, 05:36:36 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UCUEM4Q0L._SS500_.jpg)
I've been through this whole set, time for some conclusions. :) See for previous comments by several of us HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg298111.html#msg298111).
A fine set and beautiful music.................
Q - thanks for the comments on the Tallis box - this set received a high recommendation in Fanfare at the end of last year, so has been on my 'potential to buy' list for a while; now w/ the further support of you et al, might just make a purchase, esp. @ the Brilliant price!
Just checked my Thomas Tallis collection; only 3 discs, and one w/ just 43 mins! Hmm - ;D
Post by: Coopmv on April 23, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
Q - thanks for the comments on the Tallis box - this set received a high recommendation in Fanfare at the end of last year, so has been on my 'potential to buy' list for a while; now w/ the further support of you et al, might just make a purchase, esp. @ the Brilliant price!
Just checked my Thomas Tallis collection; only 3 discs, and one w/ just 43 mins! Hmm - ;D
I have 16 CD's by Tallis. I bought over 20 CD's of works between Byrd, Ockeghem, Palestrina and Fayrfax over the past two months to significantly boost my collection of early music.
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 23, 2009, 04:20:06 PM
I have 16 CD's by Tallis. I bought over 20 CD's of works between Byrd, Ockeghem, Palestrina and Fayrfax over the past two months to significantly boost my collection of early music.
Stuart - just curious - if Brilliant is claiming that 10 CDs represents Tallis' Complete Recordings, then how can you have '16 CDs by Tallis'? I'm assuming that you have a number of discs w/ a variety of composers represented? Dave :D
Post by: Coopmv on April 23, 2009, 04:25:25 PM
Stuart - just curious - if Brilliant is claiming that 10 CDs represents Tallis' Complete Recordings, then how can you have '16 CDs by Tallis'? I'm assuming that you have a number of discs w/ a variety of composers represented? Dave :D
It is simple, here are all my Tallis' recordings. 15 CD's and a few on LP ...
Spem in alium Clerkes of Oxenford
Magnificat and Nunc dimittis Higginbottom
Messe Puer natus est Clerkes of Oxenford
Lamentations of Jeremiah ARS NOVA
Live in Oxford The Tallis Scholars/Phillips
Complete Works Gesamtwerk - L'Oeuvre Integrale
Post by: Coopmv on June 27, 2009, 08:56:45 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136MM6ZTZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61EHSEHCCBL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 28, 2009, 10:39:17 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fCciLveEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Post by: Coopmv on June 29, 2009, 03:14:32 PM
And any opinions on this release?:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fCciLveEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
We are getting silent treatment for our inquiries ... ???
Post by: canninator on June 30, 2009, 05:14:23 AM
Can someone who is familiar with either of these recordings provides some insight about the recordings?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136MM6ZTZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Sinners and Saints, long time stalwart of the Devonshire traditional heavy metal scene, deliver the goods on their ninth album "The Ultimate Medieval and Renaissance Music Collection". The recent firing of lead guitarist, ex-Toxic Love shredder Blaze Bradley, has seen the loss of the nu-metal sound that Sinners and Saints lamentably touted on their eighth album "Distorted Love Machine". In its place now are the merry stylings of Auld England that apparently Sinners and Saints were looking for all along. Says lead singer, Trey Violet, "We've always loved history and stuff and so now we've finally been able to combine our twin loves of England's rich musical heritage and kick-ass solos. Plus you've gotta see the tour because we're gonna have a Stonehenge". This reviewer says let's hope this is a sound that's here to stay because it had me whipping my neck and mutating the hexachord all through the night.
Post by: Coopmv on June 30, 2009, 04:00:17 PM
Sinners and Saints, long time stalwart of the Devonshire traditional heavy metal scene, deliver the goods on their ninth album "The Ultimate Medieval and Renaissance Music Collection". The recent firing of lead guitarist, ex-Toxic Love shredder Blaze Bradley, has seen the loss of the nu-metal sound that Sinners and Saints lamentably touted on their eighth album "Distorted Love Machine". In its place now are the merry stylings of Auld England that apparently Sinners and Saints were looking for all along. Says lead singer, Trey Violet, "We've always loved history and stuff and so now we've finally been able to combine our twin loves of England's rich musical heritage and kick-ass solos. Plus you've gotta see the tour because we're gonna have a Stonehenge". This reviewer says let's hope this is a sound that's here to stay because it had me whipping my neck and mutating the hexachord all through the night.
???
Post by: DavidW on June 30, 2009, 05:49:57 PM
Post by: The new erato on June 30, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
Sinners and Saints, long time stalwart of the Devonshire traditional heavy metal scene, deliver the goods on their ninth album "The Ultimate Medieval and Renaissance Music Collection". The recent firing of lead guitarist, ex-Toxic Love shredder Blaze Bradley, has seen the loss of the nu-metal sound that Sinners and Saints lamentably touted on their eighth album "Distorted Love Machine". In its place now are the merry stylings of Auld England that apparently Sinners and Saints were looking for all along. Says lead singer, Trey Violet, "We've always loved history and stuff and so now we've finally been able to combine our twin loves of England's rich musical heritage and kick-ass solos. Plus you've gotta see the tour because we're gonna have a Stonehenge". This reviewer says let's hope this is a sound that's here to stay because it had me whipping my neck and mutating the hexachord all through the night.Very fine post. Well suitable to the cover images as well.
Post by: Que on June 30, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
And any opinions on this release?:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fCciLveEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Haven't heard it (I admit steering away from Britsh Ensembles in the Franco-Flemish Renaissance repertoire), but still - some observations.
Is this a single disc? Because the term "the essential Desprez" is a contradictio in terminis - in my experience just about anything by Desprez is essential in the context of Renaisance music.
Also note this 6CD-set by Sei Voci as an option - great performances, great bargain. Earlier brief comment made HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg267202.html#msg267202).
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0822186089064.jpg)
Q
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 30, 2009, 10:44:39 PM
(I admit steering away from Britsh Ensembles in the Franco-Flemish Renaissance repertoire)
Why?
Quote
Is this a single disc? Because the term "the essential Desprez" is a contradictio in terminis - in my experience just about anything by Desprez is essential in the context of Renaisance music.
I think it's just one disc, but all I care about is whether the music is good or not. Buying a whole load of Josquin CDs is not on my horizon just now.
Post by: Coopmv on July 01, 2009, 04:08:47 PM
Why?
I think it's just one disc, but all I care about is whether the music is good or not. Buying a whole load of Josquin CDs is not on my horizon just now.
I still prefer Byrd and Ockeghem. I loaded up on those CD's a few months ago when MDT was running sales and the Pound was weak ...
Post by: Que on October 26, 2009, 01:55:08 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f4/33/3536a2c008a04c251067b010.L.jpg)
This is my 2nd recording of Machaut's famous masterpiece - deservedly a "must-have" for anyone interested in Medieval Music. My 1st acquaintance with this work was through the (controversial) interpretation by the Ensemble Organum under Michel Pérès. Read earlier comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg231478.html#msg231478) and HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg240820.html#msg240820). This recording is in comparison sung on smaller scale and without the "byzantine" tonal micro-intervals, making the resulting sound more transparent and ethereal in character. I have to emphasize however, that despite the ethereal blend of the sound of these fist class singers the music isn't smoothed out and all dissonant chords and other characteristics that give this music its expressiveness are showcased. Another winner from this super ensemble. Most strongly recommended! :o :)
An enthusiastic review by David Vernier on ClassicsToday HERE (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2103)
A slightly less enthusiastic review (of the earlier incarnation of this recording on Harmonic Records) on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/July02/MachautMass.htm). The reviewer takes issue with Andreas Scholl's contribution, in this instance, I do not agree. 8)
A five-star review on Goldbergweb HERE (http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/discography/1990/4184.php).
But whatever you do: DO get a recording of this marvelous music! :)
Q
Post by: Coopmv on October 26, 2009, 05:12:15 PM
Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with a recommendation of this magnificent recording:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f4/33/3536a2c008a04c251067b010.L.jpg)
This is my 2nd recording of Machaut's famous masterpiece - deservedly a "must-have" for anyone interested in Medieval Music. My 1st acquaintance with this work was through the (controversial) interpretation by the Ensemble Organum under Michel Pérès. Read earlier comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg231478.html#msg231478) and HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg240820.html#msg240820). This recording is in comparison sung on smaller scale and without the "byzantine" tonal micro-intervals, making the resulting sound more transparent and ethereal in character. I have to emphasize however, that despite the ethereal blend of the sound of these fist class singers the music isn't smoothed out and all dissonant chords and other characteristics that give this music its expressiveness are showcased. Another winner from this super ensemble. Most strongly recommended! :o :)
An enthusiastic review by David Vernier on ClassicsToday HERE (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2103)
A slightly less enthusiastic review (of the earlier incarnation of this recording on Harmonic Records) on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/July02/MachautMass.htm). The reviewer takes issue with Andreas Scholl's contribution, in this instance, I do not agree. 8)
A five-star review on Goldbergweb HERE (http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/discography/1990/4184.php).
But whatever you do: DO get a recording of this marvelous music! :)
Q
Q, You always come up with these labels that I have never heard of. In a little over a month, I went from having no Glossa CD's to 2 dozens of (mostly) early music CD's. ;D
Post by: Franco on October 26, 2009, 06:02:36 PM
Post by: Que on October 26, 2009, 10:28:14 PM
Q, You always come up with these labels that I have never heard of. In a little over a month, I went from having no Glossa CD's to 2 dozens of (mostly) early music CD's. ;D
Have a look - lots of Early Music goodies. :)
(http://www.cantus-records.com/images/logo1.gif) (http://www.cantus-records.com/Eng/e_index.htm)
click on the picture
Q
Post by: Coopmv on October 27, 2009, 05:08:13 PM
Have a look - lots of Early Music goodies. :)
(http://www.cantus-records.com/images/logo1.gif) (http://www.cantus-records.com/Eng/e_index.htm)
click on the picture
Q
When I get the chance, I will check out the Cantus catalog for sure. My next targets are some of the EMI box sets, which I have been putting off but MDT is having great sales. I have never given Amazon the kind of business I have been giving MDT ... ;D
Post by: The new erato on October 28, 2009, 09:51:35 AM
Featuring their famous and now deleted recording of the so-called "Earthquake" mass by Antoine Brumel, this 15 CDs boxset includes some of the most prestigious recordings available on the Sony Classical VIVARTE label and sheds light on this long-forgotten music that too often seems to lie in dark corners of European archives and libraries.
Paul van Nevel, choirmaster, musicologist, and cultural historian founded the Huelgas Ensemble in the early 1970's at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis. The Ensemble has emerged as one of Europe's main vocal ensembles dedicated to the performance of music from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Van Nevel has won a number of prestigious awards for his recordings with the Huelgas Ensemble. Their recording of the music of Renaissance composer Mattheus Pipelare, Pipelare: Missa "L'homme armé" , won the 1998 Cannes Classical Award for Best Choral Music, in addition to the Diapason d'or in 1996. Previous albums, including their critically acclaimed Utopia Triumphans, have accumulated similar accolades. Van Nevel has also been awarded the "Prix In Honorem" from the Académie Charles Cros in Paris.
Tracks:
CD 1 Codex Las Huelgas - Music from 13th Century Spain
CD 2 Febus Avant! ,Music at the Court of Gaston Febus (1331-1391)
CD 3 Music from the Court of King Janus at Nicosia (1374-1432)
CD 4 Utopia Triumphans - Tallis, Striggio and other renaissance choral works
CD 5 Alexander Agricola - A Secret Labyrinth
CD 6 Matthaeus - Missa "L'homme armé", Chansons, Motets
CD 7 Antoine Brumel - Missa "Et ecce terrae motus", Sequentia "Dies irae"
CD 8 Mateo Flecha el Viejo (1481-1553) - Las Ensaladas
CD 9 Costanzo Festa (c.1490-1545) - Magnificat, Mass parts, Motets, Madrigals
CD 10 Nicolas Gombert (c.1500-c.1557) - Music from the Court of Charles V
CD 11 Pierre de Manchicourt (c.1510-1564) - Missa "Veni Sancte Spiritus", Motets, Chansons
CD 12 Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594) - Lagrime di San Pietro
CD 13 Jacobus Gallus (1550-1591) - Opus musicum, Missa super "Sancta Maria"
CD 14 Cancoes, Vilancicos - e Motetes Portugueses , Séculos XVI-XVII
CD 15 Joao Lourenco Rebelo (1610-1661) Lamentations for Maundy Thursday, Vesper Psalms
Post by: Coopmv on November 01, 2009, 12:34:02 PM
Post by: The new erato on November 01, 2009, 01:10:06 PM
Post by: Que on November 17, 2009, 11:43:55 PM
I'm looking for Gesualdo recommendations. I only have his Tenebrae Responsoria (Hilliard Ensemble) and want to hear some of the madrigals. Any suggestions for whichever book? There doesn't seem to be that much out there. ???
I think you'll be satisfied with either of the recordings by La Venexiana (Glossa):
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209343.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209350.jpg)
Q
Post by: Coopmv on November 18, 2009, 07:46:55 PM
I think you'll be satisfied with either of the recordings by La Venexiana (Glossa):
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209343.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209350.jpg)
Q
Q was exactly right. I bought these 2 Glossa CD's about a month ago. Gimell also has some nice recordings ...
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 12:38:49 PM
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 12:45:46 PM
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 12:46:38 PM
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 12:48:07 PM
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 12:50:26 PM
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 12:52:29 PM
Post by: Coopmv on November 20, 2009, 06:55:12 PM
Similar odd tonal insight to Fayrfax, though textures less rich or secure, and I'm not at all sure how he does it- I thought the tonal modes weren't in use till late 16th c?
I bought all 5 volumes of FAYRFAX works by Cardinall`s Musick with Andrew Carwood on ASV Gaudeamus early this year, very inspirational music IMO ...
Post by: Sean on November 21, 2009, 11:36:40 AM
I bought all 5 volumes of FAYRFAX works by Cardinall`s Musick with Andrew Carwood on ASV Gaudeamus early this year, very inspirational music IMO ...
Absolutely; Fayrfax is one of the most interesting figures in the entire renaissance and 100 years ahead of his time- the Missa Albanus made a huge impression on me (and likely would on anyone). Ludford is his admirable sidekick.
Post by: Coopmv on November 21, 2009, 11:42:01 AM
Absolutely; Fayrfax is one of the most interesting figures in the entire renaissance and 100 years ahead of his time- the Missa Albanus made a huge impression on me (and likely would on anyone). Ludford is his admirable sidekick.
I do not have any standalone recordings of Ludford's works. This will be my next exploration ...
Post by: Sean on November 21, 2009, 11:56:07 AM
I do not have any standalone recordings of Ludford's works. This will be my next exploration ...
The same group has done a similar short survey, as you probably know.
Post by: Coopmv on November 21, 2009, 12:01:25 PM
The same group has done a similar short survey, as you probably know.
Indeed. As I already have a pretty comprehensive collection of baroque works, it is only natural to explore the early music since I cannot stand "modern" classical music ...
Post by: Que on February 13, 2010, 01:17:47 AM
Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with some comments on Franco-Flemisch early Renaissance composer Johannes Ockeghem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem)'s Requiem in the performance by Marcel Pérès and the Ensemble Organum.
Although for this budget issue the notes on composer & work have been retained, there is nothing anymore about the performance...
Those familiar with the ensemble and its conductor might know what to expect: solemn, earthy, expressive and inventive, and above all: quite intense. Unlike Britsh ensembles, the singing is focused on using chest-tones. To present Ockeghem's composition in the proper lithurgical context a Sanctus and Communia by Antonius Divitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonius_Divitis) are added, together with alternating Plain-chant Some parts (Introit, Kyrie, Graduale) are performed at lower pitch, which might raise eyebrows. But it seems to work well. This is a great disc, and in any case interesting and different - especially for those used to British style performances.
Nice discography of Johannes Ockeghem HERE (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/composers/ockeghem.html). Samples of this recording HERE (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=802678).
Would welcome any additional Ockeghem recommedations! :)
Q
Post by: Coopmv on February 13, 2010, 05:58:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t0Aaw%2BEVL._SS500_.jpg)
Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with some comments on Franco-Flemisch early Renaissance composer Johannes Ockeghem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem)'s Requiem in the performance by Marcel Pérès and the Ensemble Organum.
Although for this budget issue the notes on composer & work have been retained, there is nothing anymore about the performance...
Those familiar with the ensemble and its conductor might know what to expect: solemn, earthy, expressive and inventive, and above all: quite intense. Unlike Britsh ensembles, the singing is focused on using chest-tones. To present Ockeghem's composition in the proper lithurgical context a Sanctus and Communia by Antonius Divitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonius_Divitis) are added, together with alternating Plain-chant Some parts (Introit, Kyrie, Graduale) are performed at lower pitch, which might raise eyebrows. But it seems to work well. This is a great disc, and in any case interesting and different - especially for those used to British style performances.
Nice discography of Johannes Ockeghem HERE (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/composers/ockeghem.html). Samples of this recording HERE (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=802678).
Would welcome any additional Ockeghem recommedations! :)
Q
Q, Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...
Post by: Que on February 14, 2010, 01:29:32 AM
Q, Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...
Thanks! :) But I've decided some time ago that I do not prefer the Franco-Flemish repertoire performed in British style, with its smooth phrasing, ethereal blending of sound and continuously singing on the top of the voices. Don't get me wrong: it is a rich and wonderful tradition that fits Tallis et al like a glove! :) But for the Franco-Flemish I've taken a fancy for ensembles like the Flemish Huelgas Ensemble, or French ensembles like A Sei Voci, Ensemble Gilles Binchois, the Ensemble Organum and the Ensemble Musica Nova, that I recently discovered in Machaut's motets (Zig-Zag, should post on that soon..)
So on Ockeghem I've been considering this - anyone knows it? :)
(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/1977/BIG.JPG)
More info on the recording HERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD0753).
Q
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2010, 04:31:27 AM
Thanks! :) But I've decided some time ago that I do not prefer the Franco-Flemish repertoire performed in British style, with its smooth phrasing, ethereal blending of sound and continuously singing on the top of the voices. Don't get me wrong: it is a rich and wonderful tradition that fits Tallis et al like a glove! :) But for the Franco-Flemish I've taken a fancy for ensembles like the Flemish Huelgas Ensemble, or French ensembles like A Sei Voci, Ensemble Gilles Binchois, the Ensemble Organum and the Ensemble Musica Nova, that I recently discovered in Machaut's motets (Zig-Zag, should post on that soon..)
So on Ockeghem I've been considering this - anyone knows it? :)
(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/1977/BIG.JPG)
More info on the recording HERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD0753).
Q
I have seen this CD around but know nothing about the ensemble. I respect your opinion, which I also share when it comes to Bach choral works performed by English ensembles and have scoured the web for Okeghem's recordings but really have not come up with anything meaningful except the set by The Clerks' Group/Wickham. Please post your findings if you run across something worth taking a serious look ...
Post by: The new erato on February 14, 2010, 04:58:05 AM
So on Ockeghem I've been considering this - anyone knows it? :)
(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/1977/BIG.JPG)
Recording of the year here: http://www.medieval.org/music/early/07.html (http://www.medieval.org/music/early/07.html)
Post by: Manos on February 28, 2010, 05:08:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t0Aaw%2BEVL._SS500_.jpg)The original notes don't contain much information, either. The recording was made at l'Abbaye de Fontevraud in November 1992. If you like, I can scan the contents page with personnel listings.
Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with some comments on Franco-Flemisch early Renaissance composer Johannes Ockeghem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem)'s Requiem in the performance by Marcel Pérès and the Ensemble Organum.
Although for this budget issue the notes on composer & work have been retained, there is nothing anymore about the performance...
This is an enjoyable recording.
Post by: sonusantiqva on November 19, 2010, 12:59:52 AM
I present an interesting novelty of medieval music. This is an interesting record-book, which also counts with the collaboration of the recent Nobel laureate Mario Vargas Llosa: Tirant lo Blanch-Capella de Ministrers-Carles Magraner (http://www.diverdi.com/portal/detalle.aspx?id=43620)
(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/43620/CDM-1029_B.jpg)
Saludos.
Post by: sonusantiqva on November 22, 2010, 10:59:24 AM
While I have your favorite version of the Machaut Messe nostre dame,
I present the last recording appeared on the market:
(http://www.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/3760/3760058360934_600.jpg)
INFO in OUTHERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD_1093)
I present the last recording appeared on the market:
(http://www.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/3760/3760058360934_600.jpg)
INFO in OUTHERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD_1093)
Post by: Que on December 17, 2010, 03:39:54 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DvOSDI2qL._SS500_.jpg)
Hi! :) Delighted to see you here more often again BTW.
Please tell how that recording on Stradivarius does in comparison to A Sei Voci? :)
Q
Post by: Drasko on December 17, 2010, 08:57:59 AM
Please tell how that recording on Stradivarius does in comparison to A Sei Voci? :)
I like De Labyrintho very much. It's quite different sound from A Sei Voci, much sparser (no instrumental accompaniment, no children), less atmospheric, with sharper delineation of voices, closer to Hilliards in that regard but thankfully more full bloodied (listen how the rhythm change on Cum Sancto Spiritu kicks) and emotional than usual british style (hugely moving Qui tollis, most beautiful I heard). I also like their clarity of pronunciation, if somewhat italianate (like in in excelsis). To keep it short I've uploaded Gloria from the mass from both De Labyrintho and A Sei Voci for comparison.
Josquin - Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae - Gloria - A Sei Voci (http://www.mediafire.com/?blr0dpncc87n8h2)
Josquin - Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae - Gloria - De Labyrintho (http://www.mediafire.com/?lw1xqmd161c82cd)
I think it's definitely worth having both.
Post by: chasmaniac on March 14, 2011, 01:45:13 AM
This is stunningly good. I've heard a deal of early music that was edified, noble, lovely to sound, but had no idea it could have this much life in it.
Post by: FideLeo on March 14, 2011, 02:13:48 AM
Ensemble PAN's handful of Machaut recordings, on the other hand, have long been celebrated.
http://www.youtube.com/v/H3sT8Tla02o
Post by: val on March 15, 2011, 01:58:50 AM
Post by: chasmaniac on March 15, 2011, 03:34:46 AM
Post by: Que on March 22, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YE2FSP00L.jpg)
Drasko, how is that one? :)
An unknown ensemble to me - I had to google it. (Info at ORF (http://shop.orf.at/1/index.tmpl?shop=oe1&SEITE=artikel-detail&ARTIKEL=3048&startat=1&page=1&zeigen=t&lang=EN))
Q
Post by: Drasko on March 23, 2011, 12:45:24 PM
Drasko, how is that one? :)
An unknown ensemble to me - I had to google it. (Info at ORF (http://shop.orf.at/1/index.tmpl?shop=oe1&SEITE=artikel-detail&ARTIKEL=3048&startat=1&page=1&zeigen=t&lang=EN))
Q
It's my first encounter with both The Sound and the Fury ensemble and Gombert. The ensemble is simply fantastic, one of the finest early groups I've heard this far (check the clips at orf site). ORF recording is also first rate, would love to hear their Obrecht and de la Rue discs, but they are bit on the expensive side.
Gombert I'm finding difficult to get into. His counterpoint is very thick and the drive is relentless. I'll probably need some time to get to grips with his style.
Post by: Drasko on March 24, 2011, 05:07:00 AM
Nicolas Gombert - Ave Maria - motet for five voices - The Sound and the Fury (flac)
http://www.mediafire.com/?5bkwl38xd1hl7fk
p.s. Que, we had similar short exchange quite a while ago on De Labyrintho and A Sei Voci Josquin discs. Could you cut & paste that too? I posted some samples there, shame to go to waste buried in listening thread.
Post by: The new erato on March 24, 2011, 05:25:53 AM
Good idea, cutting this from listening thread.Yes, and I think the cover is very beatiful and most appropriate. Makes me wonder about what kind of reflexes makes people think this cover is disgusting. Impure in thought etc....(maybe)
Post by: chasmaniac on April 04, 2011, 07:11:44 AM
Post by: The new erato on April 04, 2011, 07:46:30 AM
•Franciscus Andrieu (?Magister Franciscus)
•Baralipton
•Chassa
•Bernard de Cluny
•Jehan de Villeroye [Briquet]
•Grimace
•Jehannot de l'Escurel
•Johannes (Jean) de Muris
•Guillaume de Machaut
•Pierre des Molins
•Petrus de Cruce [Pierre de la Croix]
•Jean Vaillant
•Philippe de Vitry
Post by: chasmaniac on April 04, 2011, 08:53:21 AM
http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html (http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html)
•Franciscus Andrieu (?Magister Franciscus)
•Baralipton
•Chassa
•Bernard de Cluny
•Jehan de Villeroye [Briquet]
•Grimace
•Jehannot de l'Escurel
•Johannes (Jean) de Muris
•Guillaume de Machaut
•Pierre des Molins
•Petrus de Cruce [Pierre de la Croix]
•Jean Vaillant
•Philippe de Vitry
That's a good article, thanks. It's striking how little music survives by most of these people. Having been shocked and amazed by Machaut, I was hoping to find a wealth of secular polyphony just like his. Not to be, I reckon. I have some Vitry, Landini and Ciconia on the way though. They might scratch the itch!
Post by: Que on May 23, 2011, 07:31:05 PM
Antoine BRUMEL
Mass for 12 voices, "Et Ecce Terrae Motus" (with three organs and brass accompaniment)
Dominique Visse (Conductor), Ensemble Clément Janequin, Les Sacqueboutiers de Toulouse
Harmonia Mundi
[...]
These two masses are really different, but both are great. I borrowed the Brumel from the library & hadn't heard it in 15 years. He was a Renaissance composer whose dates are c.1460 - 1515. He started his career as a choirboy at Chartres Cathedral and ended it working conducting a choir in Italy. This mass is his most significant work, and both in terms of the large forces used and the length and complexity of the work, nothing can match it from that time except Tallis' Spem in alium (a masterpiece that I haven't heard yet). Complexity is the word with this work. Some parts come across as a "wall of sound" (like the music of Brumel's teacher Josquin des Prez), but Brumel also builds things up gradually for maximum effect. Take the concluding Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) which is in three parts. The first is choir only, in the second the brass comes in, and in the third the organs. It's one of the most amazing climaxes you're likely to ever hear. It's certainly just as sophisticated (if not more) as anything I've heard from more contemporary composers. I'm actually amazed at how Brumel could get this all down on the page, all of this complexity (I mean - THREE organs!). It's simply staggering. This work was published in the 1500's & we are lucky to have a full copy of the score. This work remained popular even after Brumel's death - the great Lassus, a composer of the next generation, was to direct a number of performances of it in Germany.
[...]
I love Sid's write ups - fresh first impressions of musical dicoveries. I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him to save it here! :) And hope his enthousiasm will inspire others to explore.
Q
Post by: Que on May 28, 2011, 12:37:29 AM
Thanks very much for that also. It's good to have some members here who are really clued up about this area of early classical. I am only familiar with the names Brumel & Lasso (Lasssus) on the track listing. I'm highly impressed by the Brumel mass for 12 voices, as I have talked about previously. I haven't heard about the other pieces/composers. Are the other items on this set highly regarded parts of the repertoire of that time? Are they generally representative of the eras? Basically is this set a good introduction or kind of "launchpad" into this repertoire for newcomers like myself? I'm kind of looking less for "definitive" performances, I'm more interested in "defining" works of those times...
Sid, Van Nevel is known for seeking out music of quality which is in many cases lesser known. So, this set can work as both a perfect starter kit as well as an important addition to an existing Early Music collection. For me it worked as something in between but mainly as a huge eye opener.
No big names like Machaut, Dufay, Desprez or Victoria, but still highly significant and hugely rewarding music - I assure you! :) Van Nevel's main focus is on the Franco-Flemish repertoire, and he is in that field second to none IMO, but he also explores in this set music from the Iberian peninsula and Italy.
I'm taking the opportunity to execute an old plan: revisiting the whole set from start to finish and posting my impressions.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510jX7fro6L.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL.jpg)
The Las Huelgas Codex (Wiki on the Codex. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Las_Huelgas)) gave the ensemble its name and is appropriately place d 1st in the set. What can I say in addition to David Vernier's comment below, which is very to the point IMO, other than I was amazed how interesting and touching music that early could be. The performance is more than perfect: Van Nevel succeeds in turning old manuscripts in music of real flesh and blood, full of emotion combined with absolutely musically perfect execution - absolutely rock steady, transparant and immaculate singing.
Just how engaging, catchy, lively, and artful can 13th century Spanish music be? Very, as evidenced by this collection of motets, conductus, mass movements, and strophic songs from the legendary manuscript compiled at the 12th-century Cistercian convent at Las Huelgas. This remarkable program, highlighting only a handful of the nearly 200 works contained in the original manuscript, shows not only the beauty and inventiveness of sacred music of this period, but also how colorful and varied it could be. And just how well sung and played is it? Impressively, as shown by these five exceptional female voices and period instrumentalists from the superb Huelgas Ensemble. Instruments--recorders, fiddles, rebec, and percussion--are sparingly and effectively used, and the singers treat us to exciting yet rarely heard ornamentation, an ancient art that sounds eerily modern. [David Vernier on Amazon]
Q
Post by: Que on May 28, 2011, 10:49:25 PM
As an introduction a small blurp about the background of this music (more HERE (http://unprofitableinstruments.com/febusavant/Febus/Febus.htm) and HERE (http://unprofitableinstruments.com/febusavant/paperabstract.htm)):
At the end of the fourteenth century—amidst war, famine, and religious division—an extraordinary musical society flourished in southern France. Nurtured in the courts of wealthy lords, the music of this society reflected and contributed to the prestige of the upper-class society. In this style, now known as the Ars subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior) (the more subtle art), highly trained poet-musicians wrote and performed complex music for the entertainment of an elite, highly cultured audience. Many pieces written at this time were dedicated to specific patrons, celebrating their achievements. One of the principle patrons of this music was Gaston Febus III, count of Foix and Béarn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_III,_Count_of_Foix), two small but wealthy territories in southern France.
This 2nd disc is one of my favourites of the set, if that is possible with such a wealth of first rate recordings. :) As a personal note to the excellent review below, I must say it is absolutely fascinating music, sounding surprisingly modern in the way it feels free from convention, unusual and very expressive. If members can make me recommedations of similar recordings I would be most obliged! :)
Quote
This is a highly distinctive record, in which each piece is approached in a different way, most are approached in a novel way, and everything seems to work very well. Paul van Nevel and his musicians have attacked the bizarre music of the late fourteenth century with spirit and originality: nobody seems to know how this music should have sounded, but every performance here undeniably brings out important qualities in the music.
Van Nevel's first surprise is to use a choir of six women to sing the top line of Le Mont Aon, normally thought of as a solo song; then he performs the first stanza with just these plus a trombone on the tenor line, adding the third voice (on a vielle) only for the later stanzas. This actually keeps the ear alive through over 12 minutes of intricate music. And he brings a similar surprise for the last piece, Cuvelier's Se Galaas, where he has just his women singing on all three voices, with a hardedged and direct tone that brings out the dissonances and rhythms with a wonderful clarity: you really get the excitement of the battle-cry "Febus avant" that opens the refrain. For the songs by Trebor and Solage, he uses just three male voices, again with splendidly convincing results, I think, though some listeners may disagree: in any case, Solage's Fumeux fume is one of the strangest pieces ever written, with its weird dissonances and very low texture (treated here literally), so the sound is a little strange whatever you do to it. Again, the point here is that Van Nevel approaches it in a new way and brings new qualities out of the work. Two of the motets are performed twice through, first with only one of the upper voices sung, so that the listener can grapple with the details by stages. And the canonic Tres doux compains is done as an instrumental piece for three delicioussounding tenor recorders, bringing out many musical details that would be lost if it was sung.
I think this may be the kind of record you could give to people unfamiliar with medieval music in the confident expectation that they would enjoy it and that the performances gave a responsible account of what is in the music.
D.F [Gramophone]
Q
Post by: haydnguy on May 29, 2011, 12:26:20 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PBjKVDefL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Que on May 29, 2011, 12:42:02 AM
Que, I'm just starting back with my listening also.
Check (2nd). :)
Quote
Your more qualified to do the commentary but you might want to mention which disk in the set it is.
Oh no, not at all - please pitch in! :)
I'm sure those here are that a really in the know (a.o. premont, Josquin Desprez, Jochanaan, lethe, Drasko) will step in when necessary to correct us. :D
Q
Post by: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 01:13:38 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PWVdkcRbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 01:21:23 AM
Q, Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...
Thanks, coopmv! I've added the Tallis Scholar disk to my cart. 8)
Post by: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 01:37:53 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IBODfkfhL._SS500_.jpg)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 31, 2011, 03:40:32 AM
If members can make me recommedations of similar recordings I would be most obliged! :)
Great series of posts, please keep them coming. I've plunked for the box. Re. ars subtilior recordings, here are a few:
Ars Magis Subtiliter: Music of the Chantilly Codex (1), New Albion 21
-- Ensemble P.A.N.
Codex Chantilly: Ballades & Rondeaux (1), Harmonia Mundi 1951252
-- Marcel Pérès, Ensemble Organum
Corps Femenin: L’Avant Garde de Jean Duc de Berry (1), Arcana 355
-- Crawford Young, Ferrara Ensemble
and the Solage half of
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut (1), Avie 2089
-- Gothic Voices
Post by: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 05:13:23 AM
Moving on to Disk 9 of the set. I want to mention that these are available as individual issues but the set is such a good value that the indiviual CD's are quite expensive in comparison.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IBODfkfhL._SS500_.jpg)
Isn't this set currently unavailable on Amazon?
Post by: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 05:17:46 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513%2BEB6YlHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Que on May 31, 2011, 08:51:52 AM
Great series of posts, please keep them coming. I've plunked for the box. Re. ars subtilior recordings, here are a few:
Ars Magis Subtiliter: Music of the Chantilly Codex (1), New Albion 21
-- Ensemble P.A.N.
Codex Chantilly: Ballades & Rondeaux (1), Harmonia Mundi 1951252
-- Marcel Pérès, Ensemble Organum
Corps Femenin: L’Avant Garde de Jean Duc de Berry (1), Arcana 355
-- Crawford Young, Ferrara Ensemble
and the Solage half of
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut (1), Avie 2089
-- Gothic Voices
Thanks, and I will post on each and every one of the discs! :o :D
And much obliged for the wonderful suggestions - thank you! :)
Isn't this set currently unavailable on Amazon?
David is referring to this set, that you already have, if I'm not mistaken? :) :
Q
Post by: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 11:12:30 AM
David is referring to this set, that you already have, if I'm not mistaken? :) :
For Europeans: price at jpc is now down to €30 - click here (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/A-Secret-Labyrinth-Musik-vom-Mittelalter-zur-Renaissance/hnum/4487642)! :)
Q
Absolutely. I was among the first 2 or 3 members of this forum to get this set. But this set is still available unless David is looking for a previous incarnation of this set.
Also I noticed a different CD cover and thereby created the confusion ...
Post by: haydnguy on June 01, 2011, 12:20:41 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G1HZGNQBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 01, 2011, 03:38:20 AM
Moving on to Disk 10. This set is not going to be far away from arms length for a long time!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G1HZGNQBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
This is from a Gramophone review of disc #1 from the set.
Van Nevel is easily as eccentric as Agricola ever was, and while the singers of the Huelgas Ensemble cope admirably with even his most bizarre directions, some ideas seem to be almost beyond the pale. He claims that fully vocal performance of the instrumental music is at least plausible. In the case of the six-voice Fortuna desperata (now, with at least four recordings, a staple of the Agricola repertoire) one can hardly disagree, but to hear the soprano clambering up two-and-a-half octaves in semiquavers (Dung aultre amet) forces admiration and disbelief in equal measure... The amazing thing is that the singers’ sheer athleticism and musicality lends such dotty notions an air of plausibility. More than that, they confirm the growing perception of Agricola as a composer of the very first rank. I have no hesitation in singling out [this recording] among this year’s high points.
What do you make of this? Is it just a hangover from the old debate Christopher Page and company had about the vocalization of non-texted music? Aside from, and in my opinion more important than, the question of plausibility, how does it sound? Is it juicy? Is it sweet?
Post by: Que on June 01, 2011, 11:30:05 PM
The music on this 3rd disc of the set has an amazing background:
The French noble family De Lusignan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusignan_dynasty) came in possesion of the island of Cyprus after Guy de Lusignan, King of Jerusalem, bought it. Hence a French court on Cyprus, importing the French musical tradition and it became later a centre for the Ars Subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior) style. More on this HERE (http://www.cypnet.co.uk/ncyprus/culture/music/medieval/index.html).
Cultural life reached its heights during the reign of King Janus. Janus's daughter Anna upon her marriage to Louis of Savoy, Count of Geneva, took with her a thick manuscript, written between 1413 and 1426, The Savoys later became kings of Italy and the manuscript ended up in the collection of the National Library of Turin, Italy. It consists of 159 folios containing over two hundred polyphonic compositions both sacred and secular.
This disc with a selection from the Turin manuscript did not impres me the most, nice, but sounds a bit off. Not the WOW factor of the Febus disc, it has beautiful moments but in general comes across as languid and not really engaging.
Researching the disc, this review from Gramophone explains why:
This is the oddest record I have heard in a long time. Paul van Nevel has always been a maverick, an unpredictable figure whose approach can seem, depending on your viewpoint, either astonishingly bold or thoroughly bizarre.
For a few years now the idea has been floating round—apparently pioneered by Ephraim Segerman, a courageous figure who refuses to let subjective musical judgements cloud his pursuit of logic—that we perform all our medieval and renaissance music several times too fast. It's a theory based on surviving documents but hard to believe. Anyway, Paul van Nevel here tries it out. The ballade "Si doulcement me fait amours vrais amans lasts" over 19 minutes, when it would normally last about seven minutes; needless to say that the words are entirely lost, though some passing dissonances become wonderful, long-drawn out scrunches; it's a very strange piece anyway. Just a single stanza of the ballade Si doulchement mon ceur lasts nearly six minutes; and thank heavens he didn't record the other two stanzas, because he has also chosen to pitch it so extraordinarily low that even the formidable Harry van der Kamp cannot hold the notes steadily and even the nonpareil Marius van Altena fails to keep the line moving: the sound is to my ears thoroughly and irredeemably unpleasant.
For the motet Personet armonia he chooses an ensemble of shawm and two trombones, but with a sopranino recorder doubling the tenor at the interval of two and a half octaves. Again, the theory of the thing seems easy to see, derived from organ registration; but organs are carefully balanced and good organists judge their registration by using their ears, which nobody seems to have done here (though I say 'seems' because the producer, Wolf Erichson, is probably the most experienced man in the business, world-wide).
On the other hand, the Gloria and the Credo sound wonderful: lucid, flowing, well balanced and above all full of vital musicianship. One explanation might be that in these pieces Paul van Nevel had just slipped out for a drink and left the singers to get on with it; but, on balance, I suspect that he is reminding us that he really can produce a musical performance along more accepted lines. Strictly for die-hard enthusiasts, then, or for those intrigued by the far-out. DF
So, Van Nevel took some eccentric decisions on the matter of tempo. ::) :) I like the daring attitude and often, as will be evident in the rest of the set, it pays off. But maybe not quite so in this instance.
I definitely do like to hear more from the Cypriotic Turin manscript - Suggestions are welcome! :)
Van Nevel did another disc - see below - anyone able to comment on that? :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uA3uXQj7L._SS400_.jpg)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 01:22:54 AM
I definitely do like to hear more form the Cypriotic Turin manscript
Q
Ensemble P.A.N. is always solid and this disc is no exception:
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus 1413-22 (1), New Albion 38
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000R2Y.01_SL75_.jpg)
Post by: Que on June 02, 2011, 01:30:53 AM
Ensemble P.A.N. is always solid and this disc is no exception:
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus 1413-22 (1), New Albion 38
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000R2Y.01_SL75_.jpg)
Thanks, much appreciated! :)
This is from a Gramophone review of disc #1 from the set.
What do you make of this? Is it just a hangover from the old debate Christopher Page and company had about the vocalization of non-texted music? Aside from, and in my opinion more important than, the question of plausibility, how does it sound? Is it juicy? Is it sweet?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61u%2Bdn4Uk7L._SS500_.jpg)
The Agricola disc (which is disc 5) is one of the highlights of the set. So I agree with that review - a great disc. :) Definitely juicy, as for sweet - I generally do not associate that with the Huelgas Ensembles' style, wich is more on the clear-cut and earthy side.
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 01:34:53 AM
Post by: haydnguy on June 02, 2011, 01:59:21 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KT4GZAE6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Que on June 02, 2011, 02:03:21 AM
Correction noted. I'm really looking forward to hearing this set. Should arrive today, and if I can I'll relay its flavours myself as a supplement to your notes.
Ah, excellent! :) You won't be dissapointed, I think. :)
Q
Post by: haydnguy on June 03, 2011, 12:39:43 AM
Today I will be on Disk 12:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410P8TVPN9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 04, 2011, 01:22:36 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/15/1121915.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)
Forward, Phoebus! In performance, late medieval music all too often melts into a shapeless puddle of New Age mood. Van Nevel isn't having that. By pushing tempos and stressing accents he gives back to this complex and layered music the contours it needs to distinguish itself from mere historical colouring. The last track, Se Galaas, is a tour de force of excited, rushing polyphony. A fantastic record.
Post by: Que on June 04, 2011, 10:08:37 PM
Utopia Triumphans, The Great Polyphony of the Renaissance, Huelgas Ensemble, Paul van Nevel.
Thomas Tallis' famous Spem in Alium and other large scale multipart polyphonic works by Constanzo Porta, Josquin Desprez, Johannes Ockeghem, Pierre de Manchicourt, Giovanni Gabrieli and Alessandro Striggio.
This 4th disc of the set showcasing the heights of complex Renaissance polyphony has for a long time an hypnotic attraction for me - I listened to it over and over again for several mornings in a row. Music composed to impress and it so does! :) Amazing, amazing stuff, a jewel in the crown of this set.
Having a look at the reviews at Amazon US, I found that most of the feedback focused on the performance of Talis' Spem in Alium. Understandable since this is the piece that is best known, but it does neither justice to the rest of the music or the disc as a whole. As it happens in the Huelgas continental style the Tallis piece turns out more objective, "cooler" and darker sounding than in the ethereal style British performances. I also think the added sweetness and less earthy style of, for instance, La Chaplle du Roi under Alistair Dixon ultimately suits the piece better. But the story on this disc doesn't end there! The pieces by Porta, Josquin Desprez, Ockeghem, Manchicourt, Gabrieli and Striggio are as worthy as the Tallis piece and get the great performance they deserve. I leave you in the hands of an expert - Bruno Giordano, who knows his stuff - to tell the rest:
All praise and tribute to Paul van Nevel and the Huelgas Ensemble for this magnificent effort at recording the unrecordable! The result is inevitably a qualified triumph, a CD that is thrilling to hear and yet that doesn't consistently capture the 'greatness' of the music it contains. Six of the seven works recorded here were composed for massive forces of singers, by 16th C standards, but decidedly NOT for a large choir. The pieces by Thomas Tallis and Alessandro Striggio were composed in 40 separate polyphonic lines, to be sung by 40 separate voices, as they are performed on this occasion. All six pieces are effectively 'poly-choral' in various configurations:
Tallis/Spem in alium: eight 5-part choirs
Costanzo Porta/Sanctus & Agnus Dei: three 4-part choirs plus a detached cantus firmus
Josquin Deprez/Qui habitat: four six-part groups, not intended as separated choirs
Johannes Ockeghem/Deo gratias: four nine-part groups, not intended as separated choirs
Giovanni Gabrieli/Exaudi me domini: four 4-part choirs, distinctly separated
Striggio: ten 4-part choirs
Though one might assume that having so many more voices -- remember that the overwhelming majority of polyphonic motets and masses were composed to be sung in for-to-six lines with one or two voices per line -- would massively increase the "possibilities' of composition. Such is not the case. Given the overweening centrality of modal consonance in the 'harmonic' language of the Renaissance, the necessity of putting all those voices somewhere, of giving them a pitch to sing, seriously restricted the composers' horizontal freedom of melody-shaping and of rhythmic expression. In other words, when most chords are 'triadic', more and more voices will have to be landing on the same pitches, spread vertically. The effect can almost be predicted: monotonous grandeur! That is, to my ears, even in live performance, the effect of the famous Tallis 'Spem in alium'.
If much is lost in many-part polyphony, is anything gained? Yes, indeed, and composers of the later 16th Century -- Gabriel in particular -- became adept at exploiting the gain: space! dimension! direction! The Gabrieli "Exaudi me Domine" is easily the most successful composition qua music on this CD; it makes acoustic sense. But Gabrieli and others of his generation wrote for acoustic situations radically unlike the modern concert hall; in a symphony hall, all ears are funneled toward a focus point at the conductor's desk. In a cathedral, the normal venue for hearing polychoral polyphony, the choirs would have been stationed at the four corners of the listener's consciousness. Directionality would have been an essential element of the music. Given the laws of sound propagation, however, 'volume' and 'resonance' would also have depended on the listener's particular acoustic vantage point. And since sound travels at a sluggish speed through air, there would have been split-second-but-audible discrepancies in the perceived attacks of pitches. The greatest and most insightful composers of the era would not have ignored such matters; instead they would have, and did, make the acoustic anomalies integral parts of the music. Perhaps it's clear now why I regard this repertoire as 'unrecordable' -- in practical terms, that is, for reproduction through the two-to-five speakers, however fine, in your home theater qua living room, however grandiose.
The two motets by Ockeghem and Deprez, generations younger than Gabrieli, are nonetheless quite spectacular. Spine-tingling, hypnotic, almost psychedelic in effect, like LSD in the abandoned abbey by moonlight. Both composers chose to make the most of the monotone, the insistent tonic drone, the bell-like tolling of the canon. Ockeghem wasn't fond of canonic effects, by the way, and it seems to me very unlikely that this piece is really his work, but it's quite a fine piece, whoever wrote it.
[...] [Bruno Giordano on Amazon.com] complete review (http://www.amazon.com/Utopia-Triumphans-Huelgas-Ensemble/product-reviews/B000002APL/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RLPY9K9PU2525).
What a great and informative review! :o :)
The review in the Gramophone (http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/April%201996/107/805257/Utopia+Triumphans+Huelgas+Ensemble+I+Paul+van+Nevel.#header-logo) is less enthusiatical (despite the understated "a very enjoyable disc"), calling amongst other things in to question the Ockeghem and Josuin Desprez attributions.
Q
Post by: Que on June 04, 2011, 10:48:39 PM
A work on a yet larger scale, and long reputed to be lost, is Striggio's mass composed in 40 parts, and which included a 60-voice setting of the final Agnus Dei. The work was recently unearthed by Berkeley musicologist Davitt Moroney and identified as a parody mass, Missa sopra Ecco sì beato giorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_sopra_Ecco_s%C3%AC_beato_giorno), and received its first modern performance at the Royal Albert Hall during the London Proms on 17 July 2007 by the BBC Singers and The Tallis Scholars conducted by Moroney. This work was most likely composed in 1565/6, and carried by Striggio on a journey across Europe in late winter and spring 1567, for performances at Mantua, Munich and Paris.[3] The first commercial recording of the Mass, by the British group I Fagiolini, was released in March 2011.
Interesting to see one of the "majors" being back at the forefront in the Early Music niche.
Q
Post by: Coopmv on June 05, 2011, 04:17:15 AM
And lo and behold! :o
A work on a yet larger scale, and long reputed to be lost, is Striggio's mass composed in 40 parts, and which included a 60-voice setting of the final Agnus Dei. The work was recently unearthed by Berkeley musicologist Davitt Moroney and identified as a parody mass, Missa sopra Ecco sì beato giorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_sopra_Ecco_s%C3%AC_beato_giorno), and received its first modern performance at the Royal Albert Hall during the London Proms on 17 July 2007 by the BBC Singers and The Tallis Scholars conducted by Moroney. This work was most likely composed in 1565/6, and carried by Striggio on a journey across Europe in late winter and spring 1567, for performances at Mantua, Munich and Paris.[3] The first commercial recording of the Mass, by the British group I Fagiolini, was released in March 2011.
Interesting to see one of the "majors" being back at the forefront in the Early Music niche.
Q
Q, Thanks for the posting and this CD is now on my shopping list ... :)
Post by: kishnevi on June 05, 2011, 06:36:32 AM
Q, Thanks for the posting and this CD is now on my shopping list ... :)
I did you one better. I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale).
Post by: Que on June 05, 2011, 07:22:32 AM
Q, Thanks for the posting and this CD is now on my shopping list ... :)
I did you one better. I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale).
Guys, please let uys know how it is. :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on June 09, 2011, 05:03:44 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MrOP4Ut3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594), Lassus, was the most widely-respected composer of his age. His output ranges over a wide spectrum of styles and genres – from the demotic and downright "lowly" chansons and Lieder through both secular and sacred madrigals and court music, to highly refined masses and liturgical compositions. All these forms of Lasso's music share the quality of an almost naîve joie de vivre; yet Lassus never descended to the vulgar, or ran the risk of pomposity or undue piety. Bonjour mon Cœur is a collection of what the note which accompanies the CD calls "Entertainment music of substance" by Lassus and nearly a dozen of his contemporaries… some well known, like Adrian Willaert (1490-1562); others more obscure and unrepresented elsewhere in the current catalog, like Jean de Castro (c.1540-c.1600).
Not that the teeth are in any way drawn from this music – at least not in these spirited and at the same time authoritative interpretations of Capilla Flamenca. There is a nice mix: there are gaiety, movement and elegance. And grace: the way the ensemble conveys all the emotions of the music stops well short of punchiness. Equally, they perform each work with sensitivity and style, never in any staid way.
Many of the pieces here presented are variations, "imitations", "emulations", "parodies" or "contrafacts" of works originally conceived (or indeed perhaps themselves originally borrowed) by Lassus and his contemporaries. The music remained, but a – usually sacred – text replaced a – usually secular – one. It's still hard for a post-Romantic mind to appreciate just how acceptable, how lauded even, this practice was. The CD is in fact centered around the particularly refined chanson by Ronsard, Bonjour mon Cœur. It should also be enjoyed for the lyrical beauty of the songs, which Capilla Flamenca perform with as much gravity and gentility as wit. Indeed, this is an excellent assembly of pieces illustrating the ways in which Renaissance songs dealt with love.
The way in which Capilla Flamenca expose, rather than completely sink themselves into, the songs on the CD is never either didactic or doctrinaire. Their approach comes across as well thought-out: their decision to divide the selection into four groupings corresponding to times of day (in keeping with the spirit of Bonjour mon Cœur) should better provide the listener with a framework for reacting to love's many attendant emotions… pain, exhilaration, hope, despair etc. than would a random sequence. Love awakes in the morning, becomes "exuberant" in the afternoon, eternal in the evening (all six pieces in this section are Lassus') and sleeps at night. On the whole, there are more slower and implicitly reflective works here than there are upbeat ones.
So, it's clear that great care has gone into conceiving, performing and producing this exemplary CD. Capilla Flamenca and Dirk Snellings, its director who also sings bass, are to be congratulated. The result is both entertaining and substantial. The variety of music is stimulating, and is enhanced when you know something of this contextualization. The standard of interpretation itself is very high. Unless every composer here is familiar to you, it's likely that you'll find new favorites. And, although just half the works are by Lassus himself, Bonjour mon Cœur is a good introduction to his work and the genres at which he was so expert and which he could turn to such good account.
The acoustic is close and intimate – surely the right way to present this repertoire… the plucked, wind and stringed instruments have presence and make an appropriate contribution. The "Digipak" has notes in Flemish, French, German and English – and has the texts in their original language and in translations where necessary (the songs are variously in Flemish, French, German). There is a detailed track listing, and an image of a very stern Lassus which somehow conveys his stature, as well as a photograph of the nine-person Capilla Flamenca. This is a more than merely pleasant recital. It's informative, representative of the genres whose music it contains, very persuasively performed and makes an excellent introduction to the accompanied vocal music in the sixteenth century of which Lassus was such an accomplished, imaginative and impeccably polished exponent. Recommended.
Copyright © 2010, Mark Sealey.
Post by: haydnguy on June 09, 2011, 10:01:03 AM
I did you one better. I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale).
How was the "Mass In 40 Parts" CD? I have it on my Want List.
EDIT: Thread Duty: I'm still listening to CD 13 and am just amazed by this music. 8)
Post by: kishnevi on June 09, 2011, 12:13:23 PM
How was the "Mass In 40 Parts" CD? I have it on my Want List.
EDIT: Thread Duty: I'm still listening to CD 13 and am just amazed by this music. 8)
It arrived today, and I just finished listening to it before going online.
Overall, it's a good performance, but I would like to hear a purely vocal performance to get a better grip on the mass. The performances here are a mix of voice and instruments, which allows you to follow the musical lines better than you might in a purely vocal version, but the effect of course is different from a pure a capella performance. The overall effect to my ears is to make it sort of Gabrieli fifty years beforehand. The madrigals are good, and indicate that a full CD devoted to Striggio's secular music would be a worthwhile project--a good deal of it was apparently published in his lifetime, so the prospective Striggio singer would be tracing his way through 16th century publications and not manuscripts scattered who knows where (unlike the manuscript for the mass, which was apparently stuck in a Paris library for 350 years before Davitt Moroney noticed what it was). The final track is Tallis' Spem in alium, and the mix of instruments again makes it an interesting performance--a good alternative to the usual suspects but not probably a first choice.
Definitely bears rehearing, and I don't think you should hesitate over pulling the trigger for it.
There's a DVD with surround sound files of everything except the madrigals and a 13 minute documentary on the making of the recording, but I'll wait on that.
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2011, 12:31:31 PM
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/83/f/AAAAAnTmbsYAAAAAAIP6Jg.jpg?v=1194024525000)
However, I do not want my "early music" cds streamed in with my "e" composers, so I looked to see what letters I had not used and decided to use my letter "Q" one in a tip of my fedora to out very own ~ Que ~. :)
Post by: Coopmv on June 09, 2011, 04:58:53 PM
I did you one better. I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale).
I don't see any need to rush out to get the CD, not that it will be OOP soon ...
Post by: haydnguy on June 10, 2011, 04:28:16 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511bMbTuDrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Que on June 10, 2011, 11:36:05 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)
Next to the 5th disc that gave the set its name: A Secret Labyrinth, with works by Franco-Flemish composer Alexander Agricola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Agricola) (Ackerman) (1446-1506). Agricola was one of the leading composers of the Josquin generation, his career led him to most of the countries of Western Europe. He worked at the French royal court and Italy. A interesting blurb describing his music:
Agricola's music was first transmitted in quantity in the 1490s. His most characteristic works are his songs and secular instrumental pieces, with over 80 surviving. They are overwhelmingly in three parts, and frequently quote songs by other composers, often in oblique fashion. Agricola's series of instrumental variations on De tous biens plaine is a particularly conspicuous example of his flair for variety and ornamental figuration. Most of Agricola's motets, of which he wrote over two dozen, are in a compact and straightforward style. The succinct three-voice Si dedero was the most-copied work of its generation, as well as a popular model for other settings. Agricola's stature was consummated with Petrucci's publication of a dedicated volume of his masses in 1504, and it is in his eight mass cycles that Agricola's unusual sense for counterpoint shows most clearly. His Missa In minen sin is one of the largest cycles of the era, a virtual encyclopedia of motivic variation. Agricola did not show the concern for text championed by Josquin, nor the feel for open textures pioneered by Obrecht. His counterpoint is extremely dense, with a fantastical feeling developing upon the "irrationality" of Ockeghem's designs. Agricola's larger settings are consequently some of the most intricate and inventive of the era, combining an abundance of contrapuntal ideas with a seemingly intentional arbitrariness into a web of shifting musical connections.
This disc is my first acquaintance with this composer. I highlighted the last sentences above, since that was exactly what struck me about Agricola's music: the ingenuity and elaborateness. One of the most interesting discs in the set. Agricola's music is quite distinctive IMO. As ever I would recommend Bruno Giordano's review on Amazon US (http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Agricola-Labyrinth-Huelgas-Ensemble/product-reviews/B000026BUG/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1). I want to hear more! :)
Much on Agricola points to his masses end the Missa in myne zyn is mentioned a lot. As it happens a new recording (http://www.capilla.be/EN/In_myne_zyn__ALEXANDER_AGRICOLA-discografie-41.php) has recently been issued, mentioned by several members, like Drasko and new erato. Anyone who can give feedback on that recording yet? :) :)
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/86/1632686.jpg)
Q
Post by: The new erato on June 10, 2011, 11:45:28 PM
As it happens a new recording (http://www.capilla.be/EN/In_myne_zyn__ALEXANDER_AGRICOLA-discografie-41.php) has recently been issued, mentioned by serveral members, like Drasko and new erato. Anyone who can give feedback on that recording yet? :) :)I don't know if you want comments from others than me, but once again, this is quality on all counts.
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/86/1632686.jpg)
Q
Post by: Que on June 10, 2011, 11:48:09 PM
I don't know if you want comments from others than me, but once again, this is quality on all counts.
Thanks! :) It's on the wishlist then.
Q
Post by: Drasko on June 10, 2011, 11:49:40 PM
Post by: Bogey on June 11, 2011, 04:59:02 AM
What Erato said....buy with confidence.
Post by: Coopmv on June 11, 2011, 05:12:35 AM
Thanks! :) It's on the wishlist then.
Q
And that wishlist never gets shorter ... ;D
Post by: The new erato on June 11, 2011, 06:58:34 AM
to the new Artemisia on Glossa, and it's minblowingly goog!
Post by: Bogey on June 11, 2011, 08:05:05 AM
If Cavalli counts as early, I'm listening
to the new Artemisia on Glossa, and it's minblowingly goog!
Great question. What are the general dates (I am sure that there is PLENTY of grey area) for "early" music? Does it end post Monteverdi?
A link to that one please, Erato.
Post by: Coopmv on June 11, 2011, 08:07:00 AM
Great question. What are the general dates (I am sure that there is PLENTY of grey area) for "early" music? Does it end post Monteverdi?
A link to that one please, Erato.
For me, any works composed prior to 1600 ...
Post by: Drasko on June 11, 2011, 08:13:53 AM
Post by: Que on June 11, 2011, 11:18:06 PM
What a feast is this set! :)
CD6 with secular and sacred works by another Flemish composer from the Franco-Flemish school: Matthaeus Pipelare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthaeus_Pipelare) (c.1450-c.1515).
A short blurb: Matthaeus Pipelare was a Renaissance-era composer of vocal music in both the sacred and secular realms. He wrote no instrumental works, though he likely played several musical instruments. He is highly regarded by musicologists because of his versatile style: Pipelare was adept at writing both polyphonic and homophonic works and had a knowing grasp of complex structures. He also divulged a strong talent for melody and must be regarded as among the finest composers of his day even if, in the end, he ranks a rung or so below Josquin Desprez (1440 - 1521) and Johannes Ockeghem (1450 - 1495).[Robert Cummings]
What to say about the disc other than I absolutely love this kind of music! :) And Pipelare's music is of great quality. Despite the fact that much was lost during WWII :-\ eleven masses survived! But where are they? ??? Thanks to Van Nevel at least this composer gets the exposure he deserves, but as far as the discography on Pipelare: apart from few bits on song collections - this is it! :o
Performances are exquisite: the mass L'homme armé with its deep basses - absolutely wonderfull. This recording won the 1998 Cannes Classical Award for Best Choral Music.
Q
Post by: rickardg on June 11, 2011, 11:26:30 PM
What a feast is this set!
I just got it and I agree completely (at least for the first few discs I've heard). Only one small quibble --- no notes, and this for repertoire that isn't exactly mainstream. That's why I really enjoy your series of posts here, Que.
Post by: chasmaniac on June 12, 2011, 04:40:54 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/89/b2/3f6c828fd7a05cc148954110.L.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)
I agree, especially with regard to the basses. But there's something else here. This music's imitative aspect is made particularly clear, the voices chasing each other, locking and unlocking, in a manner that is almost (dare I say it?) sexual. Great record.
Post by: Que on June 13, 2011, 12:35:22 AM
Back to this marvelous set with a great sample of the riches of Early Music.
Now CD7 with the 12-voice "Missa Et ecce terrae motus" (the "Earthquake Mass") by Antoine Brumel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Brumel) (c.1460 - c.1520), a French member of the Franco-Flemish School and pupil of Josquin Desprez. Extensive notes by Peter Philips on the Missa are found HERE (http://www.gimell.com/recording-Antoine-Brumel---Missa-Et-ecce-terrae-motus-The-Earthquake-Mass-.aspx).
The review from Gramphone:
Brumel's 12-part Mass Et ecce terrae mains is a remarkable work, well worth reviving for modern performers and listeners. Paul van Nevel deserves a vote of thanks for recognizing its value, for restoring what was missing in the first Agnus Del and for conducting this splendid performance. It is remarkable, also, that in the sixteenth century, when it was usual to perform exclusively contemporary music, this Mass was recognized for its worth by no less a musician than Lassus. Having ordered a copy of it to be made for performance at the Bavarian Court—and that must have been some 50 years after Brumel's death—Lassus had the names of his singers, many of whom can be identified, inscribed in his massive score; and from this evidence it seems clear that he himself sang with the second tenors. It is a work of great magnificence and one can well imagine the tremendous impression it must have made during a solemn Easter liturgy in the private chapel of a princely household.
The Huelgas Ensemble are expert in sustaining the long flowing lines of the counterpoint, with their rippling rhythms rising and falling like small waves on the surface of an ocean. The extremely slow-moving harmony is carefully managed, so as rarely, if ever, to sound tedious. The dynamics are well under control, and the soft, reedy tonequality is fairly evenly matched throughout the 12 vocal parts, which is quite an achievement.
Paul van Nevel deserves a second vote of thanks for his other 'premiere', the sequence Dies irae from Brumel's Requiem Mass, and for his imaginative interpretation of the alternatim scheme: in addition to the polyphony there are slow, semimetrical chant sections, solemn brass sections and fauxbourdons. I particularly enjoyed the viol-like quality of the voices in the quiet closing phrases of the sequence. Highly recommended. Gramophone [5/1991]
Van Nevel premiered this work on disc, but the Tallis Scholars and the Ensemble Clément Janequin followed suit! :o :)
The subsequent Gramophone review of the recording of the Tallis Scholars tells us more about both recordings: [on the Tallis:] the overall effect is one of controlled, if somewhat remote, precision and perfection—the feeling of remoteness arising, perhaps, from my having heard some months ago, the "World Premier" performance of this newly-restored Mass by the Huelgas Ensemble under Paul van Nevel. There is an infectious warmth and sense of involvement in the singing of the Belgian group. [...] The Tallis Scholars sing a semitone higher than the written pitch, which is that chosen by the Huelgas Ensemble. Van Nevel cultivates a rich reedy vocal quality and the lower pitch has the advantage of encouraging deeper and darker sonorities; though the sound is more opaque, lacking the clarity of The Tallis Scholars. Where the two choirs differ most, however, is in the last movement, the Agnus Dei. The Munich source, used by both choirs, is deficient at this point and some reconstruction is needed. Van Nevel has supplied an ingenious canonic solution to the first (and third) Agnus Dei, with its "virtuosic and turbulent" progression of mensural changes. He has, moreover, replaced the missing Agnus Dei II by a section from an independent Danish source, a section rejected by Peter Phillips and Francis Knights on the grounds that it was scored for six voices only and voices using different ranges from those in the rest of the Mass. The net result is that the two choirs present what amounts to two completely different final movements.
I have the version by the Ensemble Clément Janequin and used it for direct comparison:
I'm quoting excerpts from the review in Gramophone again, since its very instructive in this case as well:
[...]Dominique Visse likes to linger over particular passages and bring Out some of the inside details. This is most welcome, because the two recordings of the cycle (Paul Van Nevel in 1990 and Peter Phillips in 1992) listed above tend to keep a steady tempo and charge past much of the lovely inner writing Visse makes more audible. Especially in the 'Benedictus' and the Agnus Dci, he reveals new glories in this enormously complicated score. His flexibility of tempo also makes it possible for the singers to give more value to the texts, which is again a welcome change. [...] Whereas Phillips had 24 voices and no instruments, and Van Nevel had four instruments, Visse has 12 voices and 12 instruments. Whether Brumel is likely to have had such forces around 1500 seems unlikely (though the jury is still out on these matters), but it does bring certain advantages: it makes it possible for Visse to pitch the whole thing fairly low (a tone below modern concert pitch) without losing clarity on the crucial bottom lines and to have men singing the top line, led of course by his own marvellously vibrant and expressive singing. The result has a slightly nasal quality that is not at all in line with what we expect here
I've highlighted the IMO important characteristics of the recording. I liked the Ensemble Clément Janequin when I bought it, though it never made the impact the Van Nevel did. It sounds quite different. And now hearing them next to each other, there is really no contest. The decision of Dominique Visse to use more (instrumental) forces really does not work and amounts to some additional fanfare that blures the choral lines and disturbes the balance between the different movements. Also the "flexibility of tempo" is a failure, causing the music to sound disjointed with a blurry effect of intensity coming and going. Instead Van Nevel slowly builds a carefully structured and balanced musical cathedral with sustaining and increasing musical and emotional intensity. The "slightly nasal quality" that is the result of men sining the top lines because of the downward pitching is rather more than "slightly" and enoyes me to no end... ::) To top it off the two partial reconstructions Van Nevel did do work very well. He is the clear winner here! :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on June 13, 2011, 02:38:54 AM
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Guillaume de Machaut (d.1377) is one of the undisputed pinnacle geniuses of Western music, and the most famous composer of the Middle Ages. Today his four-voice Mass of Notre Dame is a textbook example for medieval counterpoint, and has served sufficiently to maintain his reputation across shifts in fashion. However Machaut's work is extensive, with his French songs & poetry dominating the fourteenth century by both their quality and volume. A series of carefully prepared illuminated manuscripts, undertaken for members of the French royalty, preserve his complete artistic output. Along with these major sources, various pieces are duplicated in scattered sources throughout Europe. His life and work are thus extremely well-preserved for the period, and his position as the most distinguished composer of the century has never wavered.
Machaut was apparently born in the vicinity of Rheims in Champagne, around the year 1300. He is first known as the secretary of John of Luxembourg in 1323, and used the position to travel extensively for various battles and political events. In approximately 1340, Machaut returned to Rheims to take up the position of canon (he had previously been an absentee office-holder) together with his brother Jean. However, he continued to serve John of Luxembourg until the latter's death at Crécy in 1346, and then served his daughter Bonne, who appears in the Remède de Fortune. The remainder of the fourteenth century was an epic of wars and plagues, and one of the few periods in which the population of Europe declined, but Machaut's reputation continued to rise. He went on to serve two kings of France, and was charged with a task as important as accompanying hostages during the English war. In 1361 the Dauphine was received in Machaut's quarters, an exceptional event. By the 1370s Machaut's name was associated with Pierre de Lusignan, King of Cyprus, thus establishing his fame nearly as far as Asia.
Machaut is frequently portrayed today as an avant garde composer, especially because of his position with regard to the early Ars Nova (a new, more detailed rhythmic notation), but one must also emphasize the masterful continuity with which he employed established forms. While using the same basic formats, he made subtle changes to meter and rhyme scheme, allowing for more personal touches and a more dramatic presentation. Indeed, Machaut's poetry is one of the most impressive French outputs of the medieval era, serving as an example even for Chaucer. The theme of courtly love dominates his writing, becoming heavily symbolized in the guises of such characters as Fortune & Hope, and the personal dramas in which they act. Machaut's poetic output, and by extension the subset of texts he chose to set to music, is both personal and ritualized, lending it a timeless quality. Some of the love themes date to Ovid and beyond, from whom they had been elaborated first by the troubadours of Provence and then by the northern trouvères, and so it is truly a classical tradition to which they belong.
Machaut marks the end of the lineage of the trouvères, and with it the development of the monophonic art song in the West. This aspect of his work is found in the virelais and especially the lengthy lais. He also acted decisively to refine the emerging polyphonic song forms ballade & rondeau, and these were to become the dominant fixed forms for the following generations. What Machaut achieved so eloquently is an idiomatic and natural combination of words with music, forcefully compelling in its lyrical grace and rhythmic sophistication. His songs are immediately enjoyable, because he was able to shape the smallest melodic nuances as well as to conceive of forms on a large scale. The latter is reflected in his poetic-musical creations Le Remède de Fortune and Le Veoir Dit, as well as in his Messe de Notre Dame. One must not lose sight of Machaut's position within the sweep of medieval history, as his great "multimedia" productions had clear precedents in the Roman de la Rose and especially the Roman de Fauvel. It is Machaut's ability to unite cogent and elegant melodic thinking with the new rhythmic possibilities of the Ars Nova which ultimately makes his musical reputation.
Although he wrote music for more than one hundred of his French poems, and even for half a dozen motets in Latin, Machaut remains best-known for his Mass of Notre Dame. This mass was written as part of the commemoration of the Virgin endowed by the Machaut brothers at Rheims, and was intended for performance in a smaller setting by specialized soloists. The most striking aspect of the piece is not simply the high quality of the contrapuntal writing, but the architectural unity of the Ordinary sections as well. Machaut's mass is not the earliest surviving mass cycle (there are two which predate it), but it is the earliest by a single composer and indeed the earliest to display this degree of unity. While the chants used as cantus firmus do vary, opening gestures and motivic figures are used to confirm the cyclical nature of the work. Technique of this magnitude is frequently offered as evidence of Machaut's prescience, given the prominence of such forms a hundred or two hundred years later, but the musical quality of his cycle can be appreciated on its own terms. Indeed, the same can be said for Machaut's oeuvre as a whole. ~ Todd McComb, 4/98
Post by: chasmaniac on June 21, 2011, 02:39:20 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61kPvnwRKDL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)
As I have the box and thus lack this album's notes, I must ask whether the Desprez and Ockeghem tracks are related. Is the second based on the first? Together, they sound a diptych that could have been written yesterday.
Post by: Todd on June 27, 2011, 06:17:20 AM
Looks like Archiv will release a big ol' honkin' box of works by Victoria this summer. I'm thinking these are new recordings as Michael Noone doesn't appear to have recorded for Archiv before, though I could be wrong about that. (Perhaps it's a reissue of micro-label recordings, for instance.) Do I need ten discs of Victoria's music all at once? Hmm . . .
Post by: jlaurson on June 27, 2011, 07:08:56 AM
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4779747.jpg)
Do I need ten discs of Victoria's music all at once? Hmm . . .
No. Of course not. But is that really the question and/or issue that would/will keep you from purchasing it?
That said, Victoria is absolute top-of-the-line Renaissance music... and any musical omnivore will want at least some T.L.d.Victoria.
Post by: Todd on June 27, 2011, 07:13:42 AM
No. Of course not. But is that really the question and/or issue that would/will keep you from purchasing it?
That said, Victoria is absolute top-of-the-line Renaissance music... and any musical omnivore will want at least some T.L.d.Victoria.
Oh, I do have some, and I rather enjoy Victoria (though I enjoy Morales even more). Do I need 10 more discs, though? Well, if the price is right, I'm leaning toward 'yes' . . .
(Michael Noone and company are rather good in this arena, so that helps matters a bit.)
Post by: Que on June 27, 2011, 11:03:34 AM
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4779747.jpg)
Looks like Archiv will release a big ol' honkin' box of works by Victoria this summer. I'm thinking these are new recordings as Michael Noone doesn't appear to have recorded for Archiv before, though I could be wrong about that. (Perhaps it's a reissue of micro-label recordings, for instance.) Do I need ten discs of Victoria's music all at once? Hmm . . .
Very interesting! :) Noone and his ensemble recorded for Glossa before. As it turns out, these will not be reissues but new recordings:
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In celebration of our 10th birthday and the 400th anniversary of the death of the finest of Spain's Renaissance composers, Ensemble Plus Ultra is releasing a series of ten CDs of the works of Tomás Luis de Victoria (c. 1548—1611). With an emphasis on works composed by Victoria in Madrid, and versions of works that have never before been recorded, the project features Andrés Cea Galan playing the historic organs of Lerma and Tordesillas, and collaborations with Spanish plainsong specialists Schola Antiqua (dir. Juan Carlos Asensio) and the specialist historical wind players of His Majesty Sagbutts & Cornetts (dir. Jeremy West).
The series of recordings is a project of the Fundación Caja Madrid, and the CDs will appear on the DGG Archiv label.
MORE HERE (http://www.ensembleplusultra.com/victoria.htm)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on June 28, 2011, 01:25:44 AM
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Post by: Que on June 28, 2011, 07:42:18 AM
As I have the box and thus lack this album's notes, I must ask whether the Desprez and Ockeghem tracks are related. Is the second based on the first? Together, they sound a diptych that could have been written yesterday.
I can't tell. The authorship of either piece is allegedly doubtfull. I'm not very familair with Ockeghem, but on the Desprez I'm inclined to go along wit that.
Still, whoever composed them did a great job IMO. :)
Fine set of madrigals here. Less moaning and exclaiming than sometimes in this repertory, solid 5-part music.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410XF496K7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
He seems to be interesting Italian based (Franco-)Flemish composer! :) (Wiki on Giaches de Wert (1535 – 1596) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giaches_de_Wert)) And quite productive too.
Q
Post by: Drasko on June 28, 2011, 08:37:05 AM
As I have the box and thus lack this album's notes, I must ask whether the Desprez and Ockeghem tracks are related. Is the second based on the first? Together, they sound a diptych that could have been written yesterday.
Booklet doesn't mention any particular relation between the two pieces.
Post by: Que on July 02, 2011, 11:07:40 PM
A terrific disc that should have been included in the Secret Labyrinth set. Besides the performances, the value and significance of this disc is first and foremost due to the music and its composer. Matteo da Pergia aka Mattheus de Perusio wrote as an Italian composer in late Ars Nova/ Ars Subtilior style. (An interesting read about the use of Ars Nova in Italy HERE (http://www.hoasm.org/IIIA/ArsNovaItaly.html))
An introduction on the composer:
Italian composer from the beginning of the 15th century, deceased problably in the first days of January 1418. Very little is known of his life. Surely, a native from Perugia, he seems to have made most of his career at the service of Pietro Filargos Candia (1340-1410), archbishop of Milan since 1402 and promoted to cardinal in 1405. Pietro had studied in Paris, before teaching theology at the Sorbonne; he was an enthusiastic francophile, something which in part explains the predominance of french style in Matteo's music. In 1406, Matteo accompanies Pietro to Pistoia and Bologne, to be elected anti-pope: Alexander V. He remains in Milan to the service of Pietro's successor, John XXIII, returning to Milan after the deposition of the later in 1414. Matteo becomes then the first magister capellæ — chapel master — of the Milan Cathedral, by the time still under construction.
Matteo bequeathed us a significant number of works, all contained in the Modena manuscript, which presumably was written under his guidance. His works are both religious and profanes. He is a composer midway between the italian and french tradition, employing techniques from both. His music crosses not only geographical borders, but also temporal borders: some works are written in a style reminiscent of the 14th century; other incorporate the stylistic innovations of the 15th century, such as the greater attention given to the intelligibility of the text being sung, and a more harmonic conception of the polyphonic texture.
I'm very much into the quixotic Ars Subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior) and revelled in Van Nevel "Febus Avant!" disc (included in the box set and previously discussed HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg520221.html#msg520221) and HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg522924.html#msg522924).) My impression of Matteo da Perugia is that he was a brilliant composer who went is own way and was one of a kind. His music has a free, willful feel to it with unusual treatment of melody using rhythmic imperfections and quite edgy harmonies. A true original. Van Nevel, an idiosyncratic himself, is perfect for the job. :) My only regret is that thee is so little of Perugia's 30 surviving works available on record - the blooming Early Music bussiness has its work cut out! :o 8)
The disc has been OP for a while, but I noticed that there are still a few copies floating around. And perhaps Sony (France) will decide to do a reissue? ::)
The review from Gramophone:
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Matteo da Perugia is one of the oddly neglected composers of the years around 1400. Though evidently Italian, he wrote largely in the French manner, even when setting Italian texts; so neither national tradition adopts him today. Until recently his music was known only from one manuscript and a related tiny fragment, so he was considered to have had no impact, though the discovery of two new manuscripts containing his work may call for a revision of that view. Most seriously, after the initial flurry of excitement when Willi Apel first published Perugia's astonishingly complicated music in 1950, scholars began to say there was nothing innovative about his music (though without being able to date any of it). But his known output of over 30 pieces is extraordinarily varied in style and inspiration: he seems to have tried everything, often with stunning success.
Paul Van Nevel's collection of nine pieces does ample justice to the variety of his output: French songs, Mass movements, motets and an Italian song; from the most chromatic and angular to the most harmonious; from the energetic to the gentle. As usual, he is occasionally headstrong in his choice of scoring, from the use of a female chorus in He/as April to transposing the middle stanza (only) of Puisque la mart up a fourth. But everything is done to serve the music, and everything is with an eye to revealing the wayward beauty of this fascinating composer. He helps you to hear inside the music. The sound is good and clear; the singers are excellent; and he contributes a characteristically challenging booklet-note that explains his approach. DF
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Post by: haydnguy on July 03, 2011, 01:10:56 AM
Post by: Coopmv on July 03, 2011, 05:22:01 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the Huelgas Ensemble/Van Nevel disk. I'll put it on my "to buy" list. 8)
Pretty soon, half the GMG members and their cousins will have this set ... ;D
Post by: Que on July 10, 2011, 12:33:55 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iEakE5nvL._SS500_.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/CiprianoDeRore.jpg)
And another absolutely great disc one as well. Flemish Cipriano de Rore (1515-1565) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipriano_de_Rore) was another composer from the Low Countries that ended up in Italy, influencing the development of the Italian Renaissance and early Baroque. In this case de Rore's influence was crucial to the later Italian madrigal tradition of Gesualdo and Monteverdi. The disc here focuses on a selection of motets and madrigal, including de Rore's masterpiece Missa Praeter rerum seriem. But I agree with Brun Giordano below, that all pieces have a similar style that reminds of the later madrigal tradition, although especially in the Missa de Rore's Franco-Flemish roots are very clear.
Characterizing de Rore as a composer I would say his combine a very highly developed technical style with a serious, sober undertone and a strong emotionally expressive - text orientated - yet intimate feel. Quite intense - an aspect Gesualdo later would take one step (or even two steps) further - not for casual listening. Yet de Rore balances this out with touching, very "human" moments - the opening love song for 8 voices Mon petit cueur is a good example.
De Rore was already during his life time an acclaimed composer and many of his works were published and preserved for prosperity. But like with Perusio: were are the recordings!? :o We need books and books of madrigals of this guy! Seems like a good project for La Venexia when they're done with Gesualdo. :)
An excerpt from Bruno Giordano's raving Amazon review (http://www.amazon.com/Rore-Missa-Praeter-Rerum-Seriem/product-reviews/B00006O8P7/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R3T2HJULJ4SJGK):
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Whatever 'faint praise' or carping criticism I may have heaped on an occasional non-favorite from The Huelgas Ensemble must be totally discounted in listening to this recording of music by Cipriano de Rore (1516-1565). The Missa Praeter rerum seriem is a major monument of late Renaissance polyphony; the more often I listen to it, the more musically profound it seems to me. This performance of it by The Huelgas Ensemble is likewise a monument of choral singing in our times, easily surpassing its competition from The Tallis Scholars.
You'll have to take my word for that, because my interest here is to comment on the seven shorter pieces by Cipriano recorded here - one French chanson, two Latin motets, two Italian motets, and "Calami sonum ferentes", listed as a madrigal but in Latin. In musical point of fact, all seven pieces are fully 'madrigalesque' and shockingly, radically 'modern' for music written before Gesualdo or Monteverdi were born! If anyone ever tells you that 'modern' music began with Cipriano, don't argue! He/she may be right.
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As we usually experience with a perfectly matched ensemble of viols, the mixed voices of Paul Van Nevel's Huelgas-Ensemble roll out Cipriano de Rore's eight-part chanson Mon petit cueur like a plush, richly colored, deep-textured sonic carpet, one with no seams or flaws. This skillfully woven musical cloth offers the ear one sumptuous harmonic delight after another, as would a prized tapestry present similarly dazzling delights to the eye. This Flemish composer who spent most of his professional life in Italy (he died in 1565 at the age of 49) is yet another Renaissance figure of major importance whose work has remained largely unknown. Not only is he revered as a significant influence on composers such as Monteverdi (whose madrigals Alfred Einstein claims were "inconceivable without him"), but he is credited with successfully bringing together music and emotional expression in a way no one had done before.
If you wonder just what this means, listen to Mon petit cueur, or to the motet Plange quasi virgo, or the madrigal Mia benigna fortuna. All demonstrate the vital connection between human feeling and musical manifestation, where elements of sound--both of the words themselves and of various combinations of harmonies and textures--join with inflection and dynamic changes to create an overall mood far more compelling and deeply involving than a mere momentary sensation. In other words, there are no gimmicks or obvious, theatrical tricks at play. Rore's manner relies primarily on subtle and skillfully structured effects that grow from long melodic lines and underlying, rolling waves of harmony. Occasionally, as at the end of Mon petit cueur, a totally surprising chord gives our expectations a serious yet delightful jolt--and although this happens with some regularity throughout these pieces, we're never quite prepared for it.
The mass is a masterpiece, a stunning example of perfect proportion (overall and within movements), outstanding vocal writing, and ingenious use of varied textures and rhythmic shifts to control momentum and mood. The Huelgas-Ensemble has never been in better form, the voices vibrant and colorful, expressive in every context, from delicate and subtle (the madrigal Schiet'arbuscel) to profoundly meditative (the Agnus Dei of the mass) to more overtly dramatic (the madrigal Mia benigna fortuna). The music is uniformly excellent, and the ardent performances and ideal sonics pay it full and worthy tribute. Don't miss this--one of the year's more unusual and pleasant surprises. [4/5/2003] --David Vernier, ClassicsToday.com
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Post by: chasmaniac on July 25, 2011, 08:18:36 AM
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Post by: The new erato on July 25, 2011, 09:37:53 PM
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TÓMAS LUIS DE VICTORIA
Sacred Works
Ensemble Plus Ultra
Michael Noone
CD1 Missa pro Victoria (1600); Missa pro Defunctis (1583); Psalms and Responsories
CD2 Lamentations of Jeremiah
CD3 MIssa Gaudeamus; Magnificat Octavi toni; Missa Ave maris stella
CD4 Missa de Beata Virgine; Motets: Vide speciosam, Gaude Maria virgo, Quam pulchra sunt
CD5 Missa Alma redemptoris Mater, Magnificat primi toni; Alma redemptoris Mater etc .
CD6 Missa O quam gloriosum, Christe redemptore omnium, Doctor bonus, Tibi Christe, etc.
CD7 Music for the Easter Liturgy in Habsburg Madrid
CD8 Missa Ave Regina, motets and music for Vespers
CD9 Missa Salve and motets
CD 10 Motets and Hymns for the liturgical year
Universal Spain have, over recent years, been releasing new recordings of works by the Spanish Renaissance composer Tomás Luis de Victoria (1548–1611), who stands alongside Palestrina and Lassus as one of the greatest composers of his age.
The recordings were made by highly-regarded British Early Music group Ensemble Plus Ultra under Michael Noone (“a crack squad” –Early Music Today), who won critical acclaim for CDs of Morales and other Spanish composers on the Glossa label (“breathtakingly beautiful” – BBC Radio 3, CD Review).
Altogether, 10 CDs of Victoria’s works have been released (the final two as recently as May 2011). Now we have seized the opportunity, in the year when we commemorate the 400th anniversary of Victoria’s death (27 August), to bring all of these recordings together in a single box that forms a remarkable wide-ranging compendium of works mainly from the Madrid period of his life (1586–1611).
It is undoubtedly the largest collection available of Victoria’s music, with over 90 works on the 10 CDs, including three masses and six Magnificats never previously recorded – as well as many of the favourite motets and masses of the Victoria canon.
These recordings have never before been available outside Spain.
Deutsche Grammophon 10cds 4779747
Post by: Que on July 25, 2011, 09:56:45 PM
This new issue seems a must-have:
(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/4779747.jpg)
TÓMAS LUIS DE VICTORIA
Sacred Works
Ensemble Plus Ultra
Michael Noone
Indeed! :) Todd also spotted it a while ago (one page back).
What is new for me is that the recordings were issued in Spain before - how could I have missed that! :o
I have slight reservations about English ensembles in continental repertoire, but Noone and his ensemble seem to be the exception - their Guerrero Requiem is outstanding, as is their Morales "Assumption Mass". And a lot of Spanish performers involved in the project as well. Historic Spanish organs - sounds yummy. 8)
Some additional info from the Ensemble Plus Ultra (http://www.ensembleplusultra.com/victoria.htm) site:
Our series of ten CDs brings together a total of 42 musicians from more than five countries in recordings of more than 90 works by the greatest of the Spanish polyphonists. With the support of a team that included three recording producers and engineers, we spent more than 60 days in 2008 and 2009 recording more than 12 hours of music in such acoustically superb environments as the colegial church in Lerma, the iglesia de San Pedro in Tordesillas, and St Judes-on-the-hill in London.
In this exciting venture, we are joined by the specialist instrumentalists of His Majestys Sagbutts & Cornetts (dir. Jeremy West), Spanish plainsong specialists Schola Antiqua (dir. Juan Carlos Asensio) and renowned organist Andrés Cea Galan who plays the historic organs of Tordesillas and Lerma. The series of recordings is a project of the Fundación Caja Madrid, and the CDs will appear on the DGG Archiv label. The entire project was directed by Michael Noone.
Though we are more accustomed to associating Victoria with his native Ávila or his adopted Rome, he is in fact the composer who can be most closely be associated with Madrid. During the more than a quarter of a century that he lived in the Spanish capital, he published almost one half of his entire compositional output. For this reason, we have recorded almost all of the works that Victoria published in his landmark publication of 1600, the Missae, Magnificat, motecta, psalmi et alia quam plurima published by the royal printer, Juan de Flandes. In addition, we have recorded many works—or previously unedited versions of works—by Victoria that are found only in manuscripts, that have been specially edited from those manuscripts for this project, and that have never before been recorded. Highlights in this category include the nine lamentations that are preserved in a Sistine Chapel manuscript and the 12 works (including three masses and six magnificats) from a manuscript choirbook at Toledo cathedral. Other previously unrecorded masterworks include Bovicelli’s extraordinary virtuosic arrangement of Victoria’s Vadam et circuibo and a large number of ‘alternatim’ works featuring verses for organ, plainsong and wind instruments.
Q
Post by: Coopmv on July 26, 2011, 03:33:11 PM
This new issue seems a must-have:
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Just bookmarked the set on Amazon ...
Post by: chasmaniac on August 31, 2011, 04:39:45 AM
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Edited to add:
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The vocal ensemble Cantus Colln led by Konrad Junghänel is one of the most famous European ensembles of its kind with over 30 CD recordings. Cantus Colln has won numerous international awards and is noted for including compelling performances of musical rarities as well as groundbreaking interpretations of the "classics" of the baroque repertoire.
The set from Deutsche Harmonia Mundi features 10 compact discs that were formerly unavailable, these collectible titles are now available at a low price in high quality packaging with the original cover art.
1. Rosenmüller: Sacri Concerti
2. Knüpfer, Schelle, Kuhnau: Thomaskantoren vor Bach
3. Monteverdi: Madrigali Amorosi
4. Pachelbel, J.C. Bach, J.M. Bach: Motetten
5. Monteverdi: Vespro della beata vergine - part 1
6. Monteverdi: Vespro della beata vergine - part 2
7. Lasso: Prophetiae Sibyllarum
8. Schütz: Psalmen, Motetten und Konzerte - part 1
9. Schütz: Psalmen, Motetten und Konzerte - part 2
10. Lechner: Sprüche von Leben und Tod
Post by: kishnevi on September 07, 2011, 05:32:45 PM
Post by: chasmaniac on September 08, 2011, 03:50:27 AM
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0007OQBWK.01_SL75_.jpg)
The first track, Salve flos Tusce gentis, might be my favourite recording of anything ever. And that after maybe a hundred listens.
Post by: Que on September 10, 2011, 11:28:41 PM
(http://img.amazon.ca/images/I/51MAH0H452L._SS500_.jpg)
I think it helps to get musical bearings on this probably little known Spanish Renaissance composer by mentioning his connection to a well known reference point for Early Music lovers (or it should be! :)) in Early Iberian music: the musical collection of Misteri d'Elx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misteri_d'Elx). A collection to which Ginés Peréz de la Parra as choir master of the cathedral in Valencia contributed.
The music of the Office of the Dead consists in the complete collection of five vesper psalms with its own "Magnificat" and verse "Requiescant in pace", besides the first lesson "Parce mihi Domine" and two funeral motets by Peréz. All this music is preserved in the Valencia’s Cathedral, and also in other archives, having been published in 1896 by Felip Pedrell. In addition, inserted between the psalms have been included two funeral motets of Ambrosio Cotes (1550?-1603) – successor of Pérez in the Valencia’s cathedral - and Joan Baptista Comes (1582?-1643) – probable pupil and later chapel master of the Cathedral - and also a "Tiento de falsas" of Sebastián Aguilera de Heredia (1561-1627), a contemporary of Pérez.
Victoria Musicae led by Josep Ramón Gil-Tàrrega is a Spanish early music group based in Valencia. The group's primary area of activity is the performance of Spanish and in particular Valencian composers. José de Nebra (1702-1768), Ginés Pérez de la Parra (1548-1600), Joan Baptista Comes (1582-1643) and Ambrosio Cotes (c.1550-1603), and chapel masters of the Real Colegio del Corpus Christi in Valencia during the 17th Century.[6]
For me this is a very nice find: Peréz' style is simple and straight-forward yet artfully and intelligently crafted and balanced. What strikes me is the gentle, touching feel to the music. It is not by far as severe as can be expected from music from that period. Gil-Tàrrega and his ensemble do a nice job - it definitely has an unforced air of authenticity over it. The recording is OK, Vernier below rates it with an 7 - I have less issue with it. Recommended for those who want to explore the Spanish Renaissance further and like a different flavour.
This recording was previoudly issued on Ars Harmonica, now a subsidiary label of La Mà de Guido (http://www.lamadeguido.com/). David Vernier's review (8/7) on Classicstoday (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=3660):
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For a variety of reasons--some purely musical, others related to circumstances of history--many perfectly fine composers of the Renaissance period have remained in virtual obscurity. One such is 16th-century Spanish composer Ginés Pérez, who achieved a certain stature in his home territory of Valencia but, as the liner notes point out, due to local inadequacies of music printing and the fact that he didn't travel beyond the region, his music was not widely disseminated. As this recording shows--these works have never before been recorded--Pérez was a highly competent master of contemporary liturgical form and style, setting texts such as the Salve Regina in easily flowing lines and sonorous harmonies.
In the music for the Office for the Dead, the major "work" on this program, Pérez employs varieties of vocal and instrumental combinations and builds his vocal textures with liberal use of homophonic structures. What's most striking is the solidity, the seeming inevitability of the harmonic progressions and the skilled voicing that imbues these works with bright, richly resonant sound. Psalm 120 and the Parce mihi, Domine in the Office of the Dead are excellent examples of this, but other instances abound, not least of which occur in the several purely instrumental sections (performed on shawm, sackbut, flute, cornett, organ). In its straightforward simplicity Pérez's Magnificat is as powerful and moving a setting as many I can think of that bear far more famous authorship.
The choir, part of the Spanish early-music group Victoria Musicae, has a refined ensemble technique and its well-balanced sound is captured in a slightly too bright, resonant acoustic that lets voices and instruments ring. These singers and their excellent instrumental partners are effective advocates and make a strong case for more attention to this unknown composer's work. All is not perfect: both singing and playing at times suffer from sagging intonation, and phrase endings aren't always ideally, uniformly shaped. But these are small lapses in otherwise strongly recommendable performances.
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on September 14, 2011, 03:40:58 AM
Words fail me.
Post by: Que on September 14, 2011, 08:17:25 AM
Words fail me.
That good? :) What pieces are on it?
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on September 14, 2011, 08:31:42 AM
That good? :) What pieces are on it?
Q
All of Dufay's isorhythmic motets:
O sancte Sebastiane
Vasilissa ergo gaude/Concupivit rex decorum tuum
Rite maiorem Jacobi
Ecclesie militantis
Basalmus et munda cera
Supremum est mortalibus bonum
Nuper rosarum flores
Salve flos Tusce gentis
Fulgens iubar ecclesiae dei
Moribus et genere
O gemma lux
Apostolo glorioso
Magnanime gentis laudes
Classicstoday review:
Quote
Modern ears have been subjected to a sound world so complex and chaotic--and just plain noisy--that it's impossible for us now to really appreciate the original contextual significance of works such as these 15th century motets of Guillaume Dufay. We can enjoy them on many levels and we can intellectually understand their importance, but when we hear these very complex rhythms, and harmonies that often have a strange, vacant quality, we can't erase from our memory the fact that we've heard Brahms and Ives and Stravinsky. But I picked those three composers because each owes something to Dufay and to others who wrote in ancient forms and styles, in this case the isorhythmic motet. Much like Bach's works were at the same time a summation and epitomization of the Baroque, so were these motets of Dufay in their way a final, ultimate statement regarding one of the more sophisticated musical forms of the Middle Ages. Simply put, the isorhythmic motet begins with a particular rhythmic formula or pattern that's applied to a melody in one or more voices and repeated several times throughout the piece. The structure can get quite complicated, especially if different rhythmic formulas are used for different voices, making for irregular patterns of repetition. Dufay was a master of this compositional technique and as you listen you can see why later composers looking for interesting new ideas would have found very fertile ground among pieces like these. Conductor Paul Van Nevel organizes the program chronologically so the careful listener can follow the gradual stylistic changes Dufay employed from first motet to last--a range of approximately 20 years. His singers and instrumentalists, the always intriguing, musically polished, and stylistically informed Huelgas Ensemble, just seem to revel in the music--somehow reaching back to that motorless, unplugged time where no sound was amplified or transmitted except by means of natural acoustics, where voices and instruments were commonly heard resonating from stone and wood. And we get that too, thanks to Harmonia Mundi's skillful miking in the suitably ancient, resonant space of l'Abbaye-aux-Dames.
--David Vernier
Post by: Opus106 on September 23, 2011, 08:18:42 AM
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To celebrate 10 years of The Sixteen’s lively and successful record label, CORO, and to mark the launch of our new downloads site www.thesixteendigital.com we are delighted to offer you a FREE download of one of our most popular CDs - Venetian Treasures - featuring glorious Italian choral music.
http://the-sixteen.org.uk/page/3230
Post by: Que on October 12, 2011, 10:22:19 PM
(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/9/7/4/3760020170479.jpg)
How do you like this CD? I bought the CD early in the year ...
I know! :) I think it makes interesting comparison with the ensemble's earlier recordings in the 1980's for Harmonic Records, later reissued on Cantus. There is fortunatley little overlap. This new effort won a Grand prix du disc and got a 10/10 at Classicstoday France. A decidedly less favourable review in BBC Magazine.
I think my sentiments are best summed up by Todd McComb on medieval.org, who named the recording Recording of the year 2004:
Dominique Vellard and Ensemble Gilles Binchois established a standard for Notre Dame polyphony with their two previous recordings from the 1980s & 1990s. Returning to this repertory in the 2000s, including a re-recording of Beata viscera, they continue to set standards.
The current recording adopts a more aggressive articulatory stance, and firmer diction. There is still an elegance to the phrasing & overall shaping, but any tentativeness is increasingly stripped away. The program itself is a good one, including some variety in form, starting with Perotin's massive Sederunt principes. Overall, including the programs, I cannot rate this disc as dramatically better than the earlier two, but it does represent a notable development of style. This remains pivotal repertory for Western music.
I think the new recording is harder to get into than the earlier recordings, which I still love and are not surpassed by the new one. But the new recording has less emphasis on the longer lines and more emphasis on details and nuances of articulation and phrasing. Beautifully sung. The effect is less shock and awe, more intimate but needs as a consequence more attentiveness when listening. A touch slower, less pressed as well. Could sound tiresome and/or underwhelming to some ears.
It's all a matter of taste. But it's clear in what direction Vellard is going: less "high cathedrals" more monastic IMO.
For a first acquintance with the Notre Dame School, I would still recommend the earlier recording:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A2HkUAVwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Q
Post by: Que on October 15, 2011, 12:05:33 AM
A disc that I picked up due to Amazon's Bruno Giordano's mentioning the German group Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/ensemble_stimmwerck.php?lingua=en) as one of his favourite ensembles (together with A Sei Voci, Cinquecento, Sound & Fury and others).
A blurb on Heinrich Finck:
(b Bamberg, 1444 or 1445; d Vienna, 9 June 1527). German composer. After training as a choirboy in Poland he travelled widely in search of an appointment. Between 1498 and c 1510 he served in the chapel of Prince Alexander of Lithuania, first in Vilnius, then (when Alexander became King of Poland in 1501) in Kraków. He was subsequently ‘Singemeister’ of the ducal Kapelle in Stuttgart (1510-14), a household musician to Cardinal M. Lang in Mühldorf (1516-19) and after 1519 composer to the Salzburg Cathedral chapter. Much of his music is lost but several masses, motets and motet cycles, hymns, songs and instrumental pieces survive. His creative life spans three generations: his early style, with its difficult melismatic lines, is rooted in the first flowering of German polyphony but his later works, with their full textures, show him to have assimilated the ‘modern’ styles of music written after 1500 by Isaac, Josquin and others.
His great-nephew, Hermann (1527-58), an organist in Wittenberg, wrote Practica musica (1556), a treatise on rudiments that gives examples from over 80 works by leading composers.
This is my first acquaintance with Early German repertoire. It is very pretty. Obviously influenced by the Franco-Flemish School, but with a local flavour. Heinrich Finck clearly holds his own. On the disc is the Missa Domenicalis from Finck's later years and a number of secular songs. Bruno was right about this ensemble - their singing is expressive and their voices fit extremely well together and sound ravishing. They have a superb countertenor in their midst, Franz Vitzthum. A very gifted ensemble, which is crucial for the music to succeed in Early Music.
This disc got the full five stars in the now sadly defunct magazine Goldberg, the review doesn't seem to be on the web anymore. Hoverer, here is a on Musicweb International (http://). The disc sis hard to find but seems still available at the Stimmwerck website (http://www.stimmwerck.de/shop.php?lingua=en&shop_id=2).
Stimmwerck did this disc and another with music by Adam von Fulda on Cavalli Records, and then switched to Aeolus. Their disc with music from the Codex St. Emmeran, a collaboration with organist Leon Berben, is next on my shopping list!
Q
Post by: The new erato on October 15, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
Post by: jlaurson on October 15, 2011, 01:19:59 AM
Que; waiting for that disc to drop into my mailbox any minute now. Re early German repoertoire; you dont know Senfl and Isaac? There's a fine Isaac disc on Bongiovanni with the Missa La Spagna.
...and this is one of the finest Senfl discs there is!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gp877wX%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
L. Senfl
Missa L'homme Arme
Suspicious Cheese Lords
SCL 002 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CAFRJ2/goodmusicguide-20)
Post by: Que on October 15, 2011, 02:10:20 AM
Que; waiting for that disc to drop into my mailbox any minute now.
Good! :) Hope you are doing well after your operation, BTW.
Quote
Re early German repoertoire; you dont know Senfl and Isaac? There's a fine Isaac disc on Bongiovanni with the Missa La Spagna.
Totally uncharted territory! :o So, any tips are welcome. :)
Thanks Jens, for mentioning that disc by the American ensemble with the hilarious name.
Q
Post by: The new erato on October 15, 2011, 02:24:33 AM
Good! :) Hope you are doing well after your operation, BTW.
Thanks, wondrously well in fact, have even given up on the painkillers, music is a far better drug!
Totally uncharted territory! :o So, any tips are welcome. :)Seem you have some work to do....the Im Maien disc on HM by Fretwork is a good introduction to the secular Senfll.
Post by: Willoughby earl of Itacarius on October 15, 2011, 02:40:17 AM
I wish I would like the approach of van Nevel, for he tackles a lot of music I would like to have, unfortunately I cannot get used to his idiosyncratic directing. It irks me very much.
Post by: Que on October 28, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
CD4 Missa de Beata Virgine; Motets: Vide speciosam, Gaude Maria virgo, Quam pulchra sunt
What are your impressions sofar BTW?
I haven't purchased the set yet, but found Bruno Giordano's ongoing review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Q3QSZBOYJNPI/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0050F6JQE&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=) fascinating.
According to him my Colombina set of the complete vespers for the Holy Week (Glossa) will not be redundant. ::)
Q
Post by: The new erato on October 28, 2011, 11:42:17 PM
What are your impressions sofar BTW?I have them both.
I haven't purchased the set yet, but found Bruno Giordano's ongoing review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Q3QSZBOYJNPI/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0050F6JQE&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=) fascinating.
According to him my Colombina set of the complete vespers for the Holy Week (Glossa) will not be redundant. ::)
Q
Cool and calm singing on this set, though still with more warmth than the typical English cathedral choir. I prefer this way of doing things, and of course Victoria is THE great late renaissance master in the Roman style (superceeding Palestrina in my view); so what's not to like?
Post by: Que on November 25, 2011, 01:01:47 PM
And is this as good as I have seen somebody think?
You must be referring to Bruno Giordano's raving review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Vocal-Works-Paminger/product-reviews/B0046M150C/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)? :)
My initial response is: maybe not...
This is a superlative performance in which the ensemble Stimmwerck sings possibly even more perfect than on their Heinrich Finck disc (Cavalli) and the recording engineers at Christophorus did an amazing job. The issue is the music itself. I cannot claim to be anything near as knowledgeable as Giordano in Early Music matters, but I think he might got carried way in his (justified) enthusiasm for the performance. To my ears Leonhard Paminger's music is intimate, pretty and well constructed, but maybe not so adventurous. I do miss that extra touch of individuality that gives me the WOW factor. On the other hand in Early Music the music is also very much what the performers make of it, and here that is impressive indeed.
Maybe first impressions are deceiving and will getting deeper into the music reveal more riches, but there it is...for now... I will report back if there is more to tell. :)
EDIT:
This morning I took the time to listen more attentively. My impressions are confirmed: a superb performance that elevates to a high level the music of an unknown composer of the period that is good and deserves to be heard, but is not essential repertoire. Why Giordano emphasises the polyphonic qualities of this music, is not entirely clear to me. The polyphony is on the contrary rather sober, probably purposely done so By Paminger to keep the texts clear to the listener - an musical ideal inspired by the influence of Lutheranism. One would get this recording when interested in a new composer in the German Early Music repertoire and/or because of the sheer excellence of the performance. I came across some reviews the more align with my impression than Giordano's take:
Quote
Leonhard Paminger (1495–1567) is one of many Renaissance composers whose names have slipped through the cracks of time and fallen into obscurity, awaiting rediscovery. [...] Born in Aschach on the Danube, Paminger studied in Vienna from 1513 to 1516, and then moved to Passau, where he spent the rest of his life as first a teacher and then headmaster of the Augustinian Choir School of St. Nikola. He composed more than 700 works and sired at least three sons—Balthasar, Sigismund, and Sophronius—who were also composers. Sophronius in particular sought to perpetuate his father’s memory, but of a planned posthumous edition of Leonhard’s works in 10 volumes only four were published. Aside from his musical activities, Paminger was also involved in the religious controversies of the era; several short polemical works by him on behalf of Lutheranism were published in the year of his death. Some evidence suggests that he may have been forced to relinquish his position in 1558 due to his confessional convictions.
This album presents a mixture of motets and psalm settings, all well crafted and worthy of revival. Despite his Protestant sympathies, virtually all of Paminger’s works set Latin rather than German texts—a practice not uncommon in areas that followed Lutheran rather than Reformed doctrine. The initial primary musical influences on Paminger appear to have been Heinrich Isaac and Josquin Desprez. However, in line with the Protestant principle that primacy should be given to intelligibility of the text, there is a good deal more homophony and less polyphony than this lineage might suggest. In particular, the psalm settings frequently feature an alternating pattern in which an initial is sung in unison and a responsory verse in harmony or relatively simple polyphony. As an appendix, a German hymn in four-part chordal harmony (with occasional antiphonal imitation) by Paminger’s son Sigismund (1539–71) is also presented.
Stimmwerck is a vocal trio, consisting of countertenor Franz Vitzhum, tenor Gerhard Hölze, and bass Marcus Schmidl, joined here by guest countertenor David Erler. As one might infer with such a small ensemble, intimacy and clarity are primary vocal virtues; the singing and interpretations throughout are highly polished. A minor caveat is that the ensemble members are miked a bit too closely for my tastes and can almost sound as if they are singing directly in one’s ear. Texts are provided in Latin, English, German, and French; curiously, though, the booklet note on Stimmwerck itself is given only in German. This disc is warmly recommended both on its own merits and for bringing a neglected and virtually forgotten figure back to our attention.
FANFARE: James A. Altena
And the review by the esteemed Johan van Veen HERE (http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Christophorus_CHR77331.html).
Q
Post by: Coopmv on November 25, 2011, 01:38:00 PM
What are your impressions sofar BTW?
I haven't purchased the set yet, but found Bruno Giordano's ongoing review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Q3QSZBOYJNPI/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0050F6JQE&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=) fascinating.
According to him my Colombina set of the complete vespers for the Holy Week (Glossa) will not be redundant. ::)
Q
I am still sitting on the fence on this set. I expect to order another batch of early music CD's before the end of the year.
Post by: Que on November 25, 2011, 03:52:18 PM
I am still sitting on the fence on this set. I expect to order another batch of early music CD's before the end of the year.
I'm planning to get that Victoria set. I've had some good experiences with Noone and his ensemble.
It get the thumbs up by Harry! :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on November 30, 2011, 05:06:02 AM
Post by: kishnevi on December 02, 2011, 08:00:04 PM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19634.new.html#new
Post by: Coopmv on December 03, 2011, 04:05:35 PM
The only one of this band's albums I don't own is being rereleased on Helios in January. Very much looking forward to it.
I surely will not miss this release.
Post by: Que on January 13, 2012, 09:42:33 AM
What piqued my interest was this glowing review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/ciconia_RIC316.htm) on MusicWeb. And the two Amazon reviews - one by Bruno Giordano - seem all the more reason to consider it seriously!
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on January 13, 2012, 10:57:57 AM
Has anyone tried this new issue yet? :)
What piqued my interest was this glowing review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/ciconia_RIC316.htm) on MusicWeb. And the two Amazon reviews - one by Bruno Giordano - seem all the more reason to consider it seriously!
Q
That looks good. I've arranged to pick it up this weekend, so I'll relay my impressions then. The PAN release (Homage to...) that Bruno refers to is one I like. I was less than impressed by Mala Punica's Sidus Preclarum, but don't remember why.
Post by: Que on January 13, 2012, 12:34:07 PM
The PAN release (Homage to...) that Bruno refers to is one I like.
I'm not surprised, since it is by the Huelgas Ensemble and Van Nevel. Recorded in 1984, later reissued on CD (Pavane), now OOP and vanished... :-\
But on the bright side - this new issue looks very appealing as well. :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on January 13, 2012, 01:07:16 PM
I'm not surprised, since it is by the Huelgas Ensemble and Van Nevel. Recorded in 1984, later reissued on CD (Pavane), now OOP and vanished... :-\
But on the bright side - this new issue looks very appealing as well. :)
Q
Well, he mentions the Huelgas too, but his "PAN" refers to this album by Ensemble Project Ars Nova:
Post by: Que on January 14, 2012, 12:03:05 AM
Well, he mentions the Huelgas too, but his "PAN" refers to this album by Ensemble Project Ars Nova:
Got you! :) what happened to them anyway? There seems to be only a handful of discs...
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on January 15, 2012, 05:56:30 AM
The Ricercar set is very good. The second disc, by Diabolus in Musica, with lower voices in play, rises to fabulous. Recommended.
Post by: Que on January 16, 2012, 01:02:14 AM
The Ricercar set is very good. The second disc, by Diabolus in Musica, with lower voices in play, rises to fabulous. Recommended.
Great! :)
If some of you are in the know, I'd like to discuss the Anglo-German vocal ensemble The Sound and the Fury. And I promised Drasko a write up on their De la Rue disc. :)
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/9004629314716.jpg)
I had a good listen this morning and well, I have my reservations.
This is a live recording is, as I understand are all their recordings. The Sound and the Fury's style is a rather relaxed and flowing one. All good and fine, but with complex polyphonic music singing needs to be knit quite tightly otherwise the music will loose its clarity. The first three parts of the Missa Ave Sanctissima Maria were disappointing: sloppy singing and intonations problems - at time just plainly off! :-\ But the subsequent parts were rather pretty, as is the Missa O Salutaris Hostia. Another observation: I don't think the voices blend that well - I have in particular the tenor and one of the basses in mind.
If I take a step back and just think of the vocal ensemble Stimmwerck - with their simply drop-dead gorgeous diction, perfect timing and ethereal blending of voices - and my preference is clear. On those points the members of The Sound and The Fury, who are excellent on their best moments, fall short of the "magic" I'm looking for in this music.
Browsing on the net, I accidentally came across Johan van Veen's comments on their recordings of works by Guillaume Faugues, that concur with my impressions of the De la Rue recording:
The performances certainly have their merits, but on balance I am not that enthusiastic. These are recordings of live performances. Sometimes those circumstances can give a performance a special quality, but that is not the case here. There are some irregularities and uncertainties, and these are clearly audible because the microphones have been pretty close to the singers. The church seems to have enough reverberation for this repertoire, but that isn't really taken advantage of. It also results in a very detailed picture: every single line can be heard - which in itself is nice, although probably not really intended by the composer -, but at the cost of the complete picture. Moreover it emphasizes that the voices don't blend that well and that tenor Klaus Wenk regularly reaches the limit of his upper range. I don't know - and the liner-notes don't tell - whether these masses have been transposed, but his part doesn't always sit very comfortably for his voice. This music needs to be sung legato, and in these performances this isn't always as fluent as one would wish (Full review HERE (http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/ORF_3025_3115.html
Guillaume FAUGUES))
Q
Post by: The new erato on January 16, 2012, 01:11:49 AM
de la Rue is underrepresented on record.
Post by: Que on January 16, 2012, 01:22:04 AM
Does anybody have any experience with these 3 discs?:
de la Rue is underrepresented on record.
I spotted that new release as well! :) All I know is that the three individual discs have been favourably reviewed before and awarded: Diapason d'Or, Caeciliaprize of the Belgian Music press, Repertoire 10, ***** Goldberg magazine, Prix Choc de Monde de la Musique.
Description of the individual discs:
http://www.capilla.be/EN/Pierre_de_La_Rue__Missa_de_septem_doloribus-discografie-15.php
http://www.capilla.be/EN/Pierre_de_La_Rue__Missa_Ave_Maria_en_Vespera-discografie-7.php
http://www.capilla.be/EN/Pierre_de_La_Rue__Missa_Alleluia_Muziek_aan_het_Bourgondsiche_Hof-discografie-30.php
Q
Post by: Que on January 17, 2012, 01:39:59 AM
As promised to Drasko a little writeup. [In the meantime this recording has been reissued again.]
Anyway, what a gorgeous disc! :o the Franco-Flemish composer Jean Richafort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Richafort) was an unknown quantity to me. He is of the first post-Josquin Deprez generation. He was widely known and respected during his life time, hence a lot of his works have been preserved for prosperity. Paradoxally little is known about his life - another short but more elaborate bio HERE (http://). So, why is this the sole recording? ::) The discontent for this neglect is clear in Van Nevel's liner notes, where he fulminates against certain musicologists that have dismissed Richafort on the basis of the scores as "uninteresting". He argues that the qualities of Richafort only truly become apparent when listened to.
And listening I did... :) In some comments on Richafort the similarity with Desprez is emphasised. Nonsense. Technically Richafort built on Desprez' heritage, but the experience is entirely different. What he presents us is sensuous, introverted music that is expansive with long drawn smooth lines that are continuously blending, with a lot of complex stuff going on below the surface. I suspect the sound blending is typically something that does not very visible in the score. Far from "uninteresting" - unique, engaging and achingly beautiful! :) Van Nevel and his ensemble do a superlative job with music that seems very hard to pull off in a proper way. The six-part Requiem in Desprez' memory is a daunting masterpiece, so are the motets included here - the Salve Regina in particular. It seems the only nag for some listeners are the church acoustics, that are spacious with a noticeable delay yet definitely clear. I think taking issue with this aspect is a mistake - this is exactly what the music was written for and actually needs! As long as this is taken in in the performance, which is here the case - Van Nevel takes a steady but unhurried pace as to prevent blurring of the musical texture.
I'm quoting below David Vernier's comments to which I fully concur:
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Who knows what creative force drove 16th-century French composer Jean Richafort (c.1480-c.1547) to write music of such sublime power and soothing sensuality. But the fact is, the Requiem and several of the motets leave you wondering not only why this composer isn’t better known (he was highly respected in his time and many of his works have survived) but also just a little emotionally drained. The opening eight or ten minutes of the Requiem move with the majesty of the spheres, harmonies unfolding upon harmony, lines building on line, and by the time we reach a true cadence we’re looking upward for the certain appearance of some heavenly host or other. A little “over the top”, you say? Well, I suggest you reserve judgment until you’ve heard a few minutes of this marvelous music. The mood is interrupted--or some might say, relieved--by a faster-moving, more rhythmically complex section midway through the Gradual, nearly 12 minutes into the Requiem. The textural and temporal intensity picks up further in the following Offertory, a lengthy (eight and a half minutes) yet continually engaging setting. By now you’ve noticed that Richafort loves to interject an occasional startling, clashing harmony into the mix, just enough to grab our attention but not enough to become a mere tiresome gimmick.
The Huelgas Ensemble’s performances give us far more than a taste of Richafort’s genius; by disc’s end we feel immersed, baptized, and perhaps saturated, a little dazzled by all the color and walls of sound created by the various voices and voicings--and the singers’ near-perfect intonation. Among the motets, the five-part Salve Regina is touted as a masterpiece--and it is, but its musical impact still gives way to that of the Requiem’s opening sections. And just what is a drinking song doing in the middle of all of this--a chanson called “Tru tru trut avant” for three male voices? Who cares--when you hear this catchy little gem, you’ll just want to hear it again, and if you sing in a group you’ll be wishing for your own copy of the score. The only thing that keeps this disc from a top rating is the sound--a bit too much resonance overwhelms the most densely textured sections and obscures some of those lovely lines we just want to hear more clearly. But this is a relatively minor complaint, one that my professional duty requires me to make, but that itself is quickly subsumed with each resounding cadence (or with each replay of “Tru tru trut avant”).
--David Vernier, ClassicsToday.com
Note also the elaborate Amazon reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Richafort-Requiem-memoriam-Josquin-Ensemble/product-reviews/B0000634VR).
More recordings of Jean Richafort's music please!! :)
Q
Post by: Willoughby earl of Itacarius on January 17, 2012, 01:42:18 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/36/1195136.jpg)
It seems I got myself another OOP disc - my apologies for bringing it up... :-\ Still, as promised to Drasko a little writeup - maybe this recording will resurface again.
Anyway, what a gorgeous disc! :o the Franco-Flemish composer Jean Richafort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Richafort) was an unknown quantity to me. He is of the first post-Josquin Deprez generation. He was widely known and respected during his life time, hence a lot of his works have been preserved for prosperity. Paradoxally little is known about his life - another short but more elaborate bio HERE (http://). So, why is this the sole recording? ::) The discontent for this neglect is clear in Van Nevel's liner notes, where he fulminates against certain musicologists that have dismissed Richafort on the basis of the scores as "uninteresting". He argues that the qualities of Richafort only truly become apparent when listened to.
And listening I did... :) In some comments on Richafort the similarity with Desprez is emphasised. Nonsense. Technically Richafort built on Desprez' heritage, but the experience is entirely different. What he presents us is sensuous, introverted music that is expansive with long drawn smooth lines that are continuously blending, with a lot of complex stuff going on below the surface. I suspect the sound blending is typically something that does not very visible in the score. Far from "uninteresting" - unique, engaging and achingly beautiful! :) Van Nevel and his ensemble do a superlative job with music that seems very hard to pull off in a proper way. The six-part Requiem in Desprez' memory is a daunting masterpiece, so are the motets included here - the Salve Regina in particular. It seems the only nag for some listeners are the church acoustics, that are spacious with a noticeable delay yet definitely clear. I think taking issue with this aspect is a mistake - this is exactly what the music was written for and actually needs! As long as this is taken in in the performance, which is here the case - Van Nevel takes a steady but unhurried pace as to prevent blurring of the musical texture.
I'm quoting below David Vernier's comments to which I fully concur:
Note also the elaborate Amazon reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Richafort-Requiem-memoriam-Josquin-Ensemble/product-reviews/B0000634VR).
More recordings of Jean Richafort's music please!! :)
Q
Of course its OOP, as I discovered when I tried to order it. :(
Post by: Que on January 17, 2012, 01:57:28 AM
Of course its OOP, as I discovered when I tried to order it. :(
I know, I know... :-[ It was issued in 2002, which is not that long ago (or maybe I'm getting old 8)).
Harmonia Mundi should include it in their new pretty Hm Gold series. Don't you have any connections with them? :)
Q
Post by: The new erato on January 17, 2012, 02:58:21 AM
Post by: Willoughby earl of Itacarius on January 17, 2012, 03:51:23 AM
I know, I know... :-[ It was issued in 2002, which is not that long ago (or maybe I'm getting old 8)).
Harmonia Mundi should include it in their new pretty Hm Gold series. Don't you have any connections with them? :)
Q
No, alas I have not :(
Post by: Coopmv on January 17, 2012, 07:36:04 PM
I know, I know... :-[ It was issued in 2002, which is not that long ago (or maybe I'm getting old 8)).
Harmonia Mundi should include it in their new pretty Hm Gold series. Don't you have any connections with them? :)
Q
I wonder what kind of lousy sale a recording has to generate to be put on the OOP list only eight years after it has been released? There are classical recordings that stay in the catalog for 20 or 30 years and perhaps longer ...
Post by: The new erato on January 17, 2012, 10:53:11 PM
There are classical recordings that stay in the catalog for 20 or 30 years and perhaps longer ...Yes, but usually of pretty mainstream repertoire of interest to the non-special listener.
Post by: Drasko on January 18, 2012, 09:18:19 AM
If some of you are in the know, I'd like to discuss the Anglo-German vocal ensemble The Sound and the Fury. And I promised Drasko a write up on their De la Rue disc. :)
That was super prompt, thanks! And most interesting, since my impressions after Gombert disc were different (save for relative lack of blend and preference for dry and detailed rather than wet, reverberant acoustics, but those seem to me more like differences in taste) and much more positive. Haven't noticed any lack of tightness and sloppiness, but it might be due the fact that TSatF don't sing always in same line up - for instance aforementioned tenor doesn't sing on Gombert disc. Will have to give another spin to Gombert, and Que would you give a shot to their Gombert motet I've uploaded few pages ago, I'm curious would you have same reservations on that one.
Thanks also for Richafort writeup, haven't heard anything from him yet.
Post by: bumtz on January 28, 2012, 04:53:22 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/36/1195136.jpg)
It seems I got myself another OOP disc - my apologies for bringing it up... :-\ Still, as promised to Drasko a little writeup - maybe this recording will resurface again.
Of course its OOP, as I discovered when I tried to order it. :(
No need to despair, it is still available as a part of a 3-CD Huelgas Ensemble Renaissance set: http://www.amazon.fr/Renaissance-Compilation/dp/B000H4VXMS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1327755005&sr=8-4
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yc84C9ODL._SS400_.jpg)
Post by: Coopmv on January 28, 2012, 06:34:34 AM
No need to despair, it is still available as a part of a 3-CD Huelgas Ensemble Renaissance set: http://www.amazon.fr/Renaissance-Compilation/dp/B000H4VXMS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1327755005&sr=8-4
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yc84C9ODL._SS400_.jpg)
Thanks for the link and I just bookmarked it. I have never ordered anything from Amazon France but may do it this time since this set is not available on other Amazon sites at a reasonable price ...
Post by: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 05:13:42 AM
First up is Philippe de Vitry and the Ars Nova by the Orlando Consort:
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De Vitry is best known (and only to musicologists) as the mastermind of the new musical notation which made ars nova polyphony possible, and which led to the development of modern notation. The evidence of his role is provisional, and the attribution of the motets on this CD to him is quite speculative, but if it's correct, then he was one of the greatest musical innovators of all time. Now the virtuosity of the Orlando Consort has brought this crucial repertory to life in a performance of such beauty and subtlety that the listener can forget about scholarship and just bask in sound. The art of this music is chiefly in the complex polyrhythmic development of relatively transparent harmonic progressions. As usual, the Orlando's control of phrasing and tuning is phenomenal. I have one huge gripe, however. There are no texts! These motets, most of them poly-textual, are of great literary interest. They are not just the usual love-stuff; they include mordant satire of 14th C society and of the church, as well as witty self-reflections. Still, the musical values are so strong that I have to rate the CD as five stars... or let's say as seven stars, minus two for the lack of texts.
--Giordano Bruno on amazon
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'The flower and jewel of singers', 'the finest figure in the entire musical world', 'the outstanding prince of musicians, heir to Orpheus, whose name will live forever'… such contemporary views of Philippe de Vitry rightly suggest that his music (not so well known as it might be) is worthy of listening to. Born in 1291, probably in Champagne, he spent most of his life in the service of the royal administration and as Bishop of Meaux dying an accomplished poet, philosopher, cleric and mathematician to boot in 1361. Conjecture has it that this combination of skills and attendant predispositions towards both rigor and innovation, combined with drive and repute, enabled Vitry to play certainly a leading role, maybe a decisive one, in the changes that occurred in French music in the ten years or so before 1325; these changes were in three significant areas:
1.the systems of notation were thoroughly revised
2.a new form and technique of building the motet was arrived at
3.a new language of harmony and counterpoint was developed for the motet
These developments resulted in the classic isorhythmic motet, which sets a pair of texts simultaneously in its two upper voices; the repeated rhythmic patterns of the tenor do not necessarily accord with melodic ones. Other strict 'regulations' of repetition (coincidence at prominent or significant textual junctures, for example) made for a rigorously-organized structure, following which was an intentional intellectual challenge. That Vitry was able to utilize this set of self-imposed restrictions to such effect and specifically to create music which also sounds so well is remarkable. But here is the evidence; it's plain that, for all the mathematics, the text comes first and the music is unforced and never distorted by the format. What's more, textual cross-referencing, allusions, symbols and thematic subtleties are packed into each short motet (most last a mere three minutes and none much longer than seven on this disc) more densely than in almost any other mediaeval form. This means that careful listening is a requirement if you want to get the most from the whole. Nothing arid or crossword puzzle-like here, though: this tight, colorful weave is one on which Machaut gazed, which he understood and then unpicked for himself.
Philippe de Vitry and the Ars Nova is a wonderful CD with almost an hour's worth of 19 motets from the first quarter of the fourteenth century reflecting the changes through which the genre passed. In fact, it's unclear exactly which of the works were composed by Vitry himself and which by members of his circle. The earliest group of four motets dates from right at the beginning of this period of change; they illustrate Le Roman Fauvel, which satirizes religious and political corruption and, from specific references, can be dated fairly certainly to shortly after 1315. The rest are from the 1320s: they concentrate on courtly life, abuse, fawning dependency at court and (other) such deviants as writers who compose incoherent texts (In virtute/Decens, tr.12; the two texts, separated by the oblique, are that pair set in the isorhythmic motet, described above) as well as personal attacks. The lovely Tuba/In arboris, Vos/Gratissima, Impudenter/Virtutibus, Flos/Celsa, Almifonis/Rosa and Apta/Flos are strictly religious, particularly Marian, motets, the latter being probably of a later date and certainly of the 'ars subtilior' (more subtle style) which characterized the second phase of the 'ars nova'. The theme of courtly love, otherwise ubiquitous at this time, is represented here by only one motet, Douce/Garison ; while one other 'frivolous' piece, Se je chant, has been included because it is so close to the Vitry school or style.
The Orlando Consort consists of a countertenor, two tenors and a baritone: their singing is near impeccable. This is music which they know well and sing from the soul. Where a certain 'spring' is needed, the Orlando Consort has it; where reticence, a tender pause; and where humor is called for, just the right, light touch of emphasis. Relaxed yet meticulously-articulated, their performance of each motet is a study in paying perfect attention to the individual line; this greatly helps the listener to follow the dual texts. Each singer's part nevertheless melds into a deeply musical ensemble. There seem times (in Tribum que non abhorruit/Quoniam secta latronum, for instance) when Robert Harre-Jones' countertenor is a little too closely miked compared with the other singers. Their performance is intimate, focused and ultimately very satisfying. Although the accompanying booklet has clear notes on the historical and musical background, the motets' texts are not included: a pity. Amazingly, there is no other CD in the current catalog devoted exclusively to Vitry, so if you want to know more about this important and interesting period of French musical development, this excellent CD is a must. Buy it with confidence.
Copyright © 2007, Mark Sealey
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 09, 2012, 05:17:12 AM
I find my self enamoured of ars nova and the Burgundian school, Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia, Dufay, Binchois et al. I'll offer up favourite recordings and some background in the hope that others will find the matter worthy of comment.Will follow with interest.
First up is Philippe de Vitry and the Ars Nova by the Orlando Consort:
Post by: Lethevich on February 09, 2012, 05:50:27 AM
The singing is impeccable, but it's also not obscured by the acoustic as in some - just gorgeous-sounding.
Post by: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 05:59:42 AM
Glad to see the Orlando Consort mentioned - they recorded one of my favourite early music discs - desperately in need of reissue:
The singing is impeccable, but it's also not obscured by the acoustic as in some - just gorgeous-sounding.
That looks like one for the high-and-low search list. I quite agree with you about acoustics. I like a sound dry enough to hear the parts clearly. Here's Bruno again on the Dunstaple:
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In terms of influence and recognition elsewhere, yes! English singers and composers (the two were usually the same) had been working in France and 'Italy' long before Dunstaple's time of fame, but they had assimilated continental styles. Dunstaple's music introduced English harmony, based on fa-burden, emphasizing perfect thirds, to the generation of Dufay, and the effect was huge. Possibly the marked shift in tuning of instruments, from Pythagorean to "mean" reflected Dunstaple's influence; it's a chicken/egg question.
Influence aside, Dunstaple was a glorious composer, the musical ancestor of Ockeghem in his freely polyphonic, horizontally extended, rhythmically uninhibited lines. Sung well, both Dunstaple and Ockeghem sound like passionate improvisation in all four parts, which nonetheless reaches cadences with sublime harmonic assurance. No consort or choir has come close to singing this music as perfectly as the Orlandos, not even the wonderful Hilliard Ensemble. And since four voices are easier to record than twelve or twenty (a chamber chorus), the sound quality on this CD is excellent. Why, it sounds like four beautiful men's voices in the same room! And singing with incredible precision of pitch and attack! And inflecting every line as if the language had meaning! This is the best recording of Dunstaple ever made. Buy it while you can.
That last sentence is telling.
Post by: Leon on February 09, 2012, 08:32:55 AM
After seeing this thread I created a playlist in my iTunes library and am enjoying hearing this music again.
So far I've heard selections from these:
:)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 09:01:58 AM
Guillaume Dufay, O gemma lux: Complete Isorhythmic Motets by the Huelgas Ensemble
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Modern ears have been subjected to a sound world so complex and chaotic--and just plain noisy--that it's impossible for us now to really appreciate the original contextual significance of works such as these 15th century motets of Guillaume Dufay. We can enjoy them on many levels and we can intellectually understand their importance, but when we hear these very complex rhythms, and harmonies that often have a strange, vacant quality, we can't erase from our memory the fact that we've heard Brahms and Ives and Stravinsky. But I picked those three composers because each owes something to Dufay and to others who wrote in ancient forms and styles, in this case the isorhythmic motet. Much like Bach's works were at the same time a summation and epitomization of the Baroque, so were these motets of Dufay in their way a final, ultimate statement regarding one of the more sophisticated musical forms of the Middle Ages. Simply put, the isorhythmic motet begins with a particular rhythmic formula or pattern that's applied to a melody in one or more voices and repeated several times throughout the piece. The structure can get quite complicated, especially if different rhythmic formulas are used for different voices, making for irregular patterns of repetition. Dufay was a master of this compositional technique and as you listen you can see why later composers looking for interesting new ideas would have found very fertile ground among pieces like these. Conductor Paul Van Nevel organizes the program chronologically so the careful listener can follow the gradual stylistic changes Dufay employed from first motet to last--a range of approximately 20 years. His singers and instrumentalists, the always intriguing, musically polished, and stylistically informed Huelgas Ensemble, just seem to revel in the music--somehow reaching back to that motorless, unplugged time where no sound was amplified or transmitted except by means of natural acoustics, where voices and instruments were commonly heard resonating from stone and wood. And we get that too, thanks to Harmonia Mundi's skillful miking in the suitably ancient, resonant space of l'Abbaye-aux-Dames.
--David Vernier, ClassicsToday.com
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Music appreciation textbooks and timelines in magazines often name Guillaume Dufay as the first great composer of the European Renaissance, but one might equally call him the last great composer of the Middle Ages. This disc presents all 13 of Dufay's isorhythmic motets--the final masterpieces of a very medieval-minded genre. During the Middle Ages, music was considered a science (just like mathematics), and isorhythmic motets are constructed according to strict arithmetical principles. In addition, each voice generally has a different text, while the fundamental voice (called the tenor) usually has no text at all and is often (as here) performed by instruments. As this description might indicate, isorhythmic motets are among the most intellectualized and least emotive works in the entire pre-20th century repertory--yet Paul van Nevel and the Huelgas Ensemble achieve an impressive range of expression from such seemingly poker-faced music. Apostolo glorioso (composed for the consecration of a church) and Ecclesie militantis (written for the coronation of a Pope), performed by choir and (antique) brass, are ornate and imposing, while Magnanime gentes laudes, done by one soprano, one tenor, and one trombone doubled by recorder, is intimate and delicate. The director's excellent program notes explain how isorhythmic motets are constructed and what to listen for. Van Nevel also offers wise advice: Don't listen to this disc straight through--rather, listen carefully to one or two motets several times until you recognize the structural markers, then move on to other motets later. Following that advice will make this CD somewhat more work than most, but the listener's effort will be richly repaid by these splendid performances.
--Matthew Westphal
Post by: val on February 10, 2012, 02:11:09 AM
Missa "Ecce ancilla Domini" (Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
Missa "Se la face ay pale" (Early Music Consort, Munrow)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 10, 2012, 03:24:32 AM
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Machaut's elegant and glorious Notre (or, more properly, Nostre) Dame Mass is still emblematic of events 40 years ago in the 'early' music field. It was one of the first works to which attention turned during the great resurgence of interest and explosion of expertise in performing medieval music in the 1960s. Perhaps because this is the first complete polyphonic mass known to have been the work of one composer and preserved in its entirety. Perhaps because two or three generations ago it sounded so splendid, new – exotic, almost. Certainly striking. There are currently fewer than a dozen recordings in the catalog; these do not include the one by Noah Greenberg and the New York Pro Musica, an iconic recording central to the early music revival. Like any modern symphony or chamber work, Machaut's hour-long work admits of almost as many interpretations as there are interpreters.
On this CD we get a robust and highly convincing interpretation from the ever enterprising eight-person (all male) French group, Diabolus in Musica, under their director Antoine Guerber. 'Diabolus in Musica', by the way, implies the E-B (or the modern F-B) tritone, or augmented fourth, used throughout Western music to establish dissonance – the devil, to be kept out of music at all costs. The group's is a direct, intimate and penetrating approach. Although the textures which the ensemble consistently achieves are sonorous, they are neither fanciful, nor over-rich. The tempi are refreshingly slow, unhurried and allow exposition of the importance, weight and impact of every syllable; for the words are of the utmost importance.
Machaut (c.1300-1377) was a contemporary of Chaucer. It's tempting to see parallels between Chaucer's wry adaptability to the succession of disasters of the century (plague, famine, war, social instability) and the almost sanguine response to such suffering of Machaut, who was canon at Reims cathedral from 1337 until his death 40 years later. It's to what was surely Machaut's inner strength, his faith, certainty of the rightness of a devoted life and later salvation, that Guerber and Diabolus in Musica respond in this excellent performance.
It's just as important to bear in mind how much of a change in liturgical life this mass represents. This may be surprising: Machaut was following on the tradition established during the composer's first years in his post at Reims of singing a plainchant votive Marian mass; yet polyphony was discouraged. In 1352 Pope Clement VI funded the Chapter at Reims with twelve cantors of sufficient skill and experience to provide Machaut with executors of his more ambitious and resplendent music. It did, though, take him another dozen years or so before the Messe de Nostre Dame was written. But can there be no connection?
By refusing to overplay their hands, by judicious restraint, and by meticulous articulation of every note in undemonstrative yet highly expressive phrasing Diabolus in Musica seems to have captured not only the rigor and joy which Machaut employed in this task. But these wise musicians are also at one with the novelty and innovative impact which the mass must have made when first sung. The recording – which is crisp and atmospheric – was made in a low-ceilinged location at the Abbey of Fontevraud. This acoustic enhances the music-making. Ultimately, it's the perspicacity and skill of Guerber and his singers that makes this recording so successful and satisfying. Listen to the lines and varying intensities of the Gloria [tr.3], for example. As much gentle and yet lavish breath as unselfconscious poise. Yet without drawing any teeth: the singers in Diabolus in Musica are real individuals performing as such. No attempt to submerge or efface their vocal personalities. Nor yet to impose wayward, unnecessary color. The music comes first and last – and is somehow interpreted for what it is: a liturgy in which to be involved. Yet as much as an object of beauty and wonder as a rather austere – No, restrained – service.
Plainchant is interspersed with polyphony. The flow is never interrupted and onto the whole work is conferred a unity under the direction of Guerber that makes attentive listening particularly rewarding. Perhaps this is due in part to the pronunciation adopted… the Latin pronounced as was the 'Middle French' – for it is now thought that clerics in a setting like Machaut's at Reims used the vernacular. Note, too, that there are two motets: Rex Karole by the contemporary Philippe Royllart [tr.8], and the anonymous Zolomina/Nazarea/Ave Maria [tr.15] interspersed with the mass.
The booklet that comes with this CD is up to the usual standards with introductory essays in French and English; the text of the mass is in Latin, modern French and English. So here's a recording that can be unequivocally recommended both for anyone who has yet to discover the glorious intensity and transparent beauty of this music; and who may have one or more other recordings in their collection (that by Oxford Camerata under Jeremy Summerly on Naxos 8.553833 is otherwise a good first stop) but wants to get to know multiple perspectives. Don't wait!
--Copyright © 2008, Mark Sealey
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Biographical note from medieval.org:
Guillaume de Machaut (d.1377) is one of the undisputed pinnacle geniuses of Western music, and the most famous composer of the Middle Ages. Today his four-voice Mass of Notre Dame is a textbook example for medieval counterpoint, and has served sufficiently to maintain his reputation across shifts in fashion. However Machaut's work is extensive, with his French songs & poetry dominating the fourteenth century by both their quality and volume. A series of carefully prepared illuminated manuscripts, undertaken for members of the French royalty, preserve his complete artistic output. Along with these major sources, various pieces are duplicated in scattered sources throughout Europe. His life and work are thus extremely well-preserved for the period, and his position as the most distinguished composer of the century has never wavered.
Machaut was apparently born in the vicinity of Rheims in Champagne, around the year 1300. He is first known as the secretary of John of Luxembourg in 1323, and used the position to travel extensively for various battles and political events. In approximately 1340, Machaut returned to Rheims to take up the position of canon (he had previously been an absentee office-holder) together with his brother Jean. However, he continued to serve John of Luxembourg until the latter's death at Crécy in 1346, and then served his daughter Bonne, who appears in the Remède de Fortune. The remainder of the fourteenth century was an epic of wars and plagues, and one of the few periods in which the population of Europe declined, but Machaut's reputation continued to rise. He went on to serve two kings of France, and was charged with a task as important as accompanying hostages during the English war. In 1361 the Dauphine was received in Machaut's quarters, an exceptional event. By the 1370s Machaut's name was associated with Pierre de Lusignan, King of Cyprus, thus establishing his fame nearly as far as Asia.
Machaut is frequently portrayed today as an avant garde composer, especially because of his position with regard to the early Ars Nova (a new, more detailed rhythmic notation), but one must also emphasize the masterful continuity with which he employed established forms. While using the same basic formats, he made subtle changes to meter and rhyme scheme, allowing for more personal touches and a more dramatic presentation. Indeed, Machaut's poetry is one of the most impressive French outputs of the medieval era, serving as an example even for Chaucer. The theme of courtly love dominates his writing, becoming heavily symbolized in the guises of such characters as Fortune & Love, and the personal dramas in which they act. Machaut's poetic output, and by extension the subset of texts he chose to set to music, is both personal and ritualized, lending it a timeless quality. Some of the love themes date to Ovid and beyond, from whom they had been elaborated first by the troubadours of Provence and then by the northern trouvères, and so it is truly a classical tradition to which Machaut belongs.
Machaut marks the end of the lineage of the trouvères, and with it the development of the monophonic art song in the West. This aspect of his work is found in the virelais and especially the lengthy lais. He also acted decisively to refine the emerging polyphonic song forms ballade & rondeau, and these were to become the dominant fixed forms for the following generations. What Machaut achieved so eloquently is an idiomatic and natural combination of words with music, forcefully compelling in its lyrical grace and rhythmic sophistication. His songs are immediately enjoyable, because he was able to shape the smallest melodic nuances as well as to conceive forms on a larger scale. The latter is reflected especially in his poetic-musical creations Le Remède de Fortune and Le Voir Dit, as well as in his Messe de Notre Dame. One must not lose sight of Machaut's position within the sweep of medieval history, as his great "multimedia" productions had clear precedents in the Roman de la Rose and especially the Roman de Fauvel. It is Machaut's ability to unite cogent and elegant melodic thinking with the new rhythmic possibilities of the Ars Nova which ultimately makes his musical reputation.
Although he wrote music for more than one hundred of his French poems, and even for half a dozen motets in Latin, Machaut remains best-known for his Mass of Notre Dame. This mass was written as part of the commemoration of the Virgin endowed by the Machaut brothers at Rheims, and was intended for performance in a smaller setting by specialized soloists. The most striking aspect of the piece is not simply the high quality of the contrapuntal writing, but the architectural unity of the Ordinary sections as well. Machaut's mass is not the earliest surviving mass cycle (there are two which predate it), but it is the earliest by a single composer and indeed the earliest to display this degree of unity. While the chants used as cantus firmus do vary, opening gestures and motivic figures are used to confirm the cyclical nature of the work. Technique of this magnitude is frequently offered as evidence of Machaut's prescience, given the prominence of such forms a hundred or two hundred years later, but the musical quality of his cycle can be appreciated on its own terms. Of course, the same can be said for Machaut's oeuvre as a whole.
--Todd McComb, 4/98
Post by: chasmaniac on February 13, 2012, 03:29:39 AM
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Gothic Voices is a durable British ensemble that has performed medieval secular music mostly in vocal a cappella style. You may or may not like that approach, but if you'd like to give it a try, this disc contains repertory in which unaccompanied singing works well. The group sings some of the fixed-form chansons of Machaut -- and not the usual ones -- but then seizes on the inherent complexity of Machaut's music and looks forward in time to one of his successors, the mysterious Solage. Nothing, not even a first name, is known of this composer, but he was active at the end of the fourteenth century, and his music, lumped at the time under the label of ars subtilior or "subtle art,"seems to have been intellectual and at times freakish. Many discs contain one or two of his pieces, but this one offers a more generous sampling of this music. For a taste of what you're getting into, sample his best-known piece, Fumeux fume par fumee (track 6), whose opening lines are here translated as "Out of dreams the dreamer dreams up dreamy speculation." Elsewhere the pieces have been thought to refer to smoke, or perhaps even to drug use -- a logical supposition in view of the thoroughly cosmic text. This was apparently music made for small groups of aficionados, and the rather claustrophobic atmosphere induced by the small groups of voices singing medieval intervals actually helps put across the weirdly arcane mood of Solage's music. Other songs involve acrostics in their texts, comment on political affairs (S'aincy estoit, track 10), or even argue in favor of jackets as opposed to robes or cloaks (Pluseurs gens, track 11). The Gothic Voices achieve variety by assigning pieces to high or low ranges and deploying shifting groups of singers. This album is worth anyone's time for the ride through Solage's music, and it's a must for those already enamored of the Gothic Voices style.
--allmusic
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Gothic Voices explore songs by two 14th-century French composers. Machaut, well known to lovers of early music, represents the first half of the century; Solage, almost unknown today, represents the second half, the evolution of Ars Subtilior from Ars Nova. We can only surmise that he wrote for princely and ducal courts by names hinted at in his songs.
The opening song, Solage's ballade Le Basile, is sung at a brisk tempo by a soloist over a busy "di-di-di-di" accompaniment. Many of the ballades have a similar accompaniment, sometimes with a soprano soloist, more often a male voice. The singers manage with perfect ease the long vocalisations and rhythmic complexity of some of the ballades, for example S'aincy estoit: their performance flows as naturally as a gentle stream. Several of Machaut's virelais are particularly interesting, especially the passionate Mors sui se je ne vous voy, where two solo male voices respond to each other melodically.
Perhaps most intriguing of all is Solage's rondeau Fumeux fume par fumee. Gothic Voices take this strange song at face value and perform it at pitch with a group of the lowest male voices. They seem to suggest that these rFhe effect is astoundingly modern, entailing chromaticism and exotic modulations' singers sink into a boozy haze. But what do we know about performance practice in the 14th century? Precious little. The truth is that Solage is actually describing an existing group of poets, bent on trying to uncover the very essence of poetic imagination and creation. We hear several series of short phrases, sung sequentially, six or seven in a row, reaching the very bottom of the vocal range. The effect is astoundingly modern, entailing chromaticism and exotic modulations. It would take another 200 years before a Gesualdo might attempt anything equally exotic.
--Mary Berry, Gramophone
Post by: chasmaniac on February 14, 2012, 07:05:52 AM
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Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594), Lassus, was the most widely-respected composer of his age. His output ranges over a wide spectrum of styles and genres – from the demotic and downright "lowly" chansons and Lieder through both secular and sacred madrigals and court music, to highly refined masses and liturgical compositions. All these forms of Lasso's music share the quality of an almost naîve joie de vivre; yet Lassus never descended to the vulgar, or ran the risk of pomposity or undue piety. Bonjour mon Cœur is a collection of what the note which accompanies the CD calls "Entertainment music of substance" by Lassus and nearly a dozen of his contemporaries… some well known, like Adrian Willaert (1490-1562); others more obscure and unrepresented elsewhere in the current catalog, like Jean de Castro (c.1540-c.1600).
Not that the teeth are in any way drawn from this music – at least not in these spirited and at the same time authoritative interpretations of Capilla Flamenca. There is a nice mix: there are gaiety, movement and elegance. And grace: the way the ensemble conveys all the emotions of the music stops well short of punchiness. Equally, they perform each work with sensitivity and style, never in any staid way.
Many of the pieces here presented are variations, "imitations", "emulations", "parodies" or "contrafacts" of works originally conceived (or indeed perhaps themselves originally borrowed) by Lassus and his contemporaries. The music remained, but a – usually sacred – text replaced a – usually secular – one. It's still hard for a post-Romantic mind to appreciate just how acceptable, how lauded even, this practice was. The CD is in fact centered around the particularly refined chanson by Ronsard, Bonjour mon Cœur. It should also be enjoyed for the lyrical beauty of the songs, which Capilla Flamenca perform with as much gravity and gentility as wit. Indeed, this is an excellent assembly of pieces illustrating the ways in which Renaissance songs dealt with love.
The way in which Capilla Flamenca expose, rather than completely sink themselves into, the songs on the CD is never either didactic or doctrinaire. Their approach comes across as well thought-out: their decision to divide the selection into four groupings corresponding to times of day (in keeping with the spirit of Bonjour mon Cœur) should better provide the listener with a framework for reacting to love's many attendant emotions… pain, exhilaration, hope, despair etc. than would a random sequence. Love awakes in the morning, becomes "exuberant" in the afternoon, eternal in the evening (all six pieces in this section are Lassus') and sleeps at night. On the whole, there are more slower and implicitly reflective works here than there are upbeat ones.
So, it's clear that great care has gone into conceiving, performing and producing this exemplary CD. Capilla Flamenca and Dirk Snellings, its director who also sings bass, are to be congratulated. The result is both entertaining and substantial. The variety of music is stimulating, and is enhanced when you know something of this contextualization. The standard of interpretation itself is very high. Unless every composer here is familiar to you, it's likely that you'll find new favorites. And, although just half the works are by Lassus himself, Bonjour mon Cœur is a good introduction to his work and the genres at which he was so expert and which he could turn to such good account.
The acoustic is close and intimate – surely the right way to present this repertoire… the plucked, wind and stringed instruments have presence and make an appropriate contribution. The "Digipak" has notes in Flemish, French, German and English – and has the texts in their original language and in translations where necessary (the songs are variously in Flemish, French, German). There is a detailed track listing, and an image of a very stern Lassus which somehow conveys his stature, as well as a photograph of the nine-person Capilla Flamenca. This is a more than merely pleasant recital. It's informative, representative of the genres whose music it contains, very persuasively performed and makes an excellent introduction to the accompanied vocal music in the sixteenth century of which Lassus was such an accomplished, imaginative and impeccably polished exponent. Recommended.
Copyright © 2010, Mark Sealey.
Post by: kishnevi on February 14, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
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While some of the music is found in the Secret Labyrinth box, the performances are all relatively recent, recorded in concert, and there's no actual duplications from the Sony set.
Post by: chasmaniac on February 15, 2012, 06:56:27 AM
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When this was first issued (15:4), we had been getting Ars Subtilior music on records with some frequency. This period between Machaut and Dufay (about 1380 to 1420) had always been characterized by the fiendishly difficult notation of the sources. It seemed that notation, which had until that time been used to record musical sounds, was becoming the starting point for a composer, who began with notation on the page and left it to performers to execute what they read. It seemed possible that notation could even indicate what the voice could not execute, at least until a new level of performing mastery was achieved. Page, however, avoided this paradox by starting with the music rather than the notation, settling on Romanticism as the characteristic ideal that defines the efforts of any composers to expand their resources. To clarify his point, he widens the time period to 1340–1440, incorporating late Machaut and early Dufay for contrast. He is also frank about the ongoing issues of text underlay and use of instruments that had exercised performers and scholars for over a decade before that. He explains his approach clearly and convincingly, rejecting accompaniment and the texting of untexted vocal lines in favor of vocalizing them. Page’s notes have been slightly abbreviated and shorn of footnotes.
Solage is underrepresented here with only one piece, Joieux de cuer, as is Jacob de Senleches with En ce gracieux temps joli, but covering the principal Ars Subtilior composers was not the main focus here. Margaret Philpot’s solo Comment qu’a moy of Machaut is ideal, still unsurpassed today. J. de Porta’s Alma polis religio/Axe poli cum artica, probably a first recording, is still the best, since duplicated only by La Reverdie (17:5) and Obsidienne (on Calliope), which both use instruments. Gilet Velut, one of the more obscure composers of the lot, is represented by Je voel servir, not recorded elsewhere, although three other pieces are found on four other discs, two of them duplicated. Johannes de Lymburgia is better known than that, for his Salve virgo is on four recordings, two of them with an additional piece, and another motet like this one is on a later Gothic Voices disc.
This is a significant disc, although it is hard not to say that about most of the score of recordings that the group made for Hyperion before Page went to Academe. The program unfolds intelligently, the music is entrancing at best (as the Machaut virelai), and the singing is ravishing. New collectors who were not around for the initial release of the series will have the benefit of the lower price when most (if not all) have been reissued. Those of us who have the originals will be satisfied that we heard them when they first blazed a new trail of performance practice. Go for it.
FANFARE: J. F. Weber
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There is a famous book which interprets the fourteenth century as the time when the Middle Ages finally went to seed like the crops in Autumn. Another describes it as ‘the calamitous fourteenth century’. Small wonder, therefore, if the music composed in France during the century of Guillaume de Machaut (d1377) has often been described as ‘mannerist’ and ‘precious’: terms that suggest decadence and escapism.
The performances recorded here spring from a different view of French music during the fourteenth century, for we believe that French song of the later Ars Nova can be described by a term that is both positive and evocative: Romantic. To be sure, these songs have been called Romantic before, but it may still seem rash to speak of ‘The Medieval Romantics’. Devotees of nineteenth-century music will object that there was no cult of genius in the fourteenth century, no passion for the wildness of Nature and no such nationalism as we associate with the 1800s. And yet if Romanticism implies a taste for beauty touched by strangeness, and if it is associated with a desire to expand the resources of musical language (and especially of harmony) with sheer profligacy of invention, then the second half of the fourteenth century in France was truly a period of Romantic composition.
This is not to say that every composer of the period was a Romantic artist. Most of the polyphonic songs produced in France between c1340 and c1400 are light and melodious, being neither ‘wayward’ (a term often used of this repertory) nor Romantic. The virelai Mais qu’il vous viengne a plaisance is a representative example of this style at its best. Nonetheless, in addition to these plainer songs we find others, many of them attributed to named composers, which reveal different priorities.
With the Romanticism of the fourteenth century—as with that of the nineteenth—a major priority is the sheer scale of what is attempted. To hear a thirteenth-century motet such as Quant voi le douz tans/En Mai/[Immo]LATUS, followed immediately by the four-part motet Alma polis religio/Axe poli/Tenor/Contratenor of the next century, is to sense that there has been a great expansion in the musical territory colonized for composition. The later work is longer, its harmonic language more studied but also more diversified, and its compass much wider (reaching two octaves, the limit of the human voice according to contemporary theorists). With its complex isorhythmic scheme, it is altogether a more grandiose and intellectually ambitious work than its thirteenth-century counterpart.
In the chanson repertoire of rondeaux, virelais and ballades, where the Romanticism of the later Ars Nova is principally to be found, the desire for expansive musical conceptions was closely allied (as it was to be five hundred years later) to an enlarged conception of melody. As early as the twelfth century, of course, some monophonic songs of the trouvères (not to mention some Latin songs) had been supplied with expansive, melismatic melodies, but the desire to stretch a long, measured melody over a large polyphonic frame was new in the fourteenth century. Among French composers of the Ars Nova this produced compositions going far beyond what could be accomplished in a thirteenth-century piece such as the motet just mentioned, Quant voi le douz tans/En Mai/[Immo]LATUS. In that piece, as it is performed on this recording, we hear first a monophonic song with its roots in the trouvère tradition, and then the same song as it was given mensural rhythm and placed above a vocalized tenor to make a motet, perhaps around 1240. As far as we can discern—for the origins of the polyphonic chanson in the fourteenth century are still obscure—this is one of the textures which passed to the fourteenth century and which helped to form the basis of chansons such as Guillaume de Machaut’s Tant doucement me sens emprisonnes, here performed as a duet comprising the Cantus and (vocalized) Tenor to display the mastery of Machaut’s two-part technique. The comparison with the thirteenth-century motet shows that the musical scope of Machaut’s piece is much greater than the Triplum–Tenor duet of the motet, largely because Machaut’s Cantus is so vast and needs so little support from the text. The thirteenth-century composer works syllable by syllable, but Machaut’s melismatic melody is directed, in particular, by a rhythmic elasticity which is entirely new to the fourteenth century and which merits comparison with some of the freedoms that were also ‘new’ in the nineteenth.
We hear this freedom again in the highly flexible melodic line of the anonymous virelai Je languis d’amere mort, or in the Cantus of Paolo da Firenze’s Sofrir m’estuet et plus non puis durer. Paolo’s piece demonstrates that the supposedly wayward rhythms of fourteenth-century song can be lyrical, even lilting, in their effect upon the ear, however strange they may look to the eye. In a similar way, the phrase-lengths in the Cantus of Quiconques veut d’amors joïr, a superb piece by an anonymous master, are so supple that they resist ‘the tyranny of the bar line’ at every turn.
There were many experiments with harmony among the medieval Romantics. As we leave the thirteenth century and enter the fourteenth century we become more confident that unusual harmonic effects may be tokens of a colouristic interest in harmony rather than the by-products of a compositional method. That kind of interest in harmony could coexist with the cerebral and calculating tendencies of all medieval composing, and indeed it could be advanced by them. The composer of Alma polis religio/Axe poli/Tenor/Contratenor, for example, is fascinated by a chord of Bb–G–D–G, and he exploits his isorhythmic scheme in such a way that the top three notes sound alone—so that the ear processes a simple chord of G—and then the low B flat enters in the Contratenor to tint the sonority in a most unexpected way. Many other examples could be cited from the pieces recorded here, but the master in this art is Solage, a composer who has left only ten securely attributed works, all of them experimental in various ways, and a high proportion of them in four parts (relatively rare in the chanson repertoire of the Ars Nova). His virelai Joieux de cuer en seumellant estoye, in four parts, is perhaps the summit of fourteenth-century Romanticism. The Cantus—the only part bearing the text—is a vast melody both in terms of its length and its width; it regularly spans a tenth or an eleventh within a few measures, a distance acknowledged by fourteenth-century theorists such as Jacques de Liège to represent the workable (if not the absolute) limit of the human voice. The other three parts are highly vocal in character, or in contemporary terminology, dicibilis (literally ‘pronouncable’). It is the essence of Solage’s achievement in this piece that the textless parts seem to strain towards the beauty and sufficiency of Cantus-style melody.
What signs are there that medieval composers recognized that the later fourteenth century had produced composers of profligate inventiveness—musicians who had lent a touch of strangeness to beauty? The surest indication that composers of the fifteenth century recognized that something very striking had happened in the recent past is to be found in the kinds of pieces that they chose to produce themselves. The highly controlled scale and harmonic language of chansons such as Dufay’s Je requier a tous amoureux, the same composer’s Las, que feray? Ne que je devenray? or Gilet Velut’s Je voel servir plus c’onques mais, are characteristic of much early fifteenth-century secular music and may be interpreted as a reaction against the luxuriance of later fourteenth-century composers such as Solage. When we turn to a mature composition of the mid-1430s, Johannes de Lymburgia’s Tota pulcra es, amica mea, we find a four-part technique completely unlike that of Solage. Lymburgia’s harmony is rigorously controlled so that almost every vertical sonority is a consonance, thirds and sixths are crucial building blocks of the music and fleeting rests are inserted in the texture to avoid dissonant colours that the ‘Medieval Romantics’ would have prized.
Christopher Page © 1991
Post by: chasmaniac on February 17, 2012, 03:26:25 AM
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This recording completes a three-part series featuring the songs and motets of the French Ars Nova, initiated by The Medieval Romantics (Helios CDH55293), and continued by Lancaster and Valois (Helios CDH55294). The title of this third recording is the most pertinent of all, for the poets and composers of fourteenth-century France did indeed regard love as a study. Our cover illustration is a reminder that the narrative poets of the period often present themselves as retiring individuals who have learned all they know of love from books. When the poet of La grant biauté speaks of ‘Nature’, for example, he uses a personification enriched by several centuries of thought and imagination in both Latin and vernacular (Chaucer’s Parlement of Fowles provides a fine example in Middle English), while figures such as ‘Envie’, ‘Desir’ and ‘Amours’, ubiquitous in these poems, evoke the tradition of the narrative romances whose authors were expected to share their knowledge of Biblical and classical story with their readers. If the scholar shown on our cover were not St Jerome, one might imagine him to be a poet checking his knowledge of Marticius (for Marticius qui fu), the basilisk (for Le basile), Euclid and Pygmalion (for Fist on, dame) or the labyrinth that Daedalus made for Minos (for En la maison Dedalus).
The musical resources displayed in these pieces are extensive. Puis que l’aloe ne fine has the kind of sinuous melody, with musical phrases of unpredictable length and momentary flashes of musica ficta colour, that French composers of the Ars Nova always loved; we find similar qualities in La grant biauté, Combien que j’aye and Renouveler me feïst, this last being one of the earliest ‘New Year’ songs in the repertory. Several pieces in four parts, particularly the anonymous Jour a jour (a popular work to judge by the number of surviving copies) and Le basile, by Solage, reveal the desire for sweet and consonant harmony, occasionally embittered by moments of dissonance, which characterizes a good deal of fourteenth-century French writing in four parts. Particularly striking, perhaps, are the two pieces in the ‘B flat’ tonality (that is to say with a double flat signature) that was especially favoured by composers in the decades around 1400. Of these two songs, Marticius qui fu and Fist on, dame, the first owes something to the mature style of Machaut in the rhythmic gestures of its texted voice. Both are robust compositions with almost swaggering melodies.
Guillaume de Machaut is featured on all three recordings of this series. Trop plus / Biauté paree / Je ne suis is a three-part motet that welcomes a very sprightly performance. Many years ago, David Munrow recorded the piece at a very slow tempo; this brings out the dissonances but may sometimes deprive the cross-rhythms and fragmented musical phrases of their excitement. Dame, je vueil endurer and Se mesdisans are drawn from Machaut’s collection of monophonic virelais, a variety of music which only Machaut chose to produce and notate in the fourteenth century and which invariably, as here, reveals his distinctive musical voice. In a similar way, Tres bonne et belle could not be the work of any other Ars Nova composer; its palette of dissonant colours, with prominent fourths and sevenths, seems distinctively Mascaudian.
Il me convient guerpir is one of the latest pieces. Probably dating from the early fifteenth century, it is a distinguished member of a small group of songs composed for two equal voices. Finally, there is the Gloria by Pycard. It belongs here in that Pycard was apparently a Frenchman, although his music is only known from the English Old Hall Manuscript, and his rhythmic intricacies recall the French Ars subtilior. In rhythmic terms, this Gloria is one of the most complex mass compositions in the entire medieval repertory; at times, the upper voices travel so far away from the basic tactus or ‘beat’, and the lower voices, holding sustained notes, do so little to assert it, that all sense of metrical organization is lost. I hope that the pieces by Pycard recorded for this series will help to establish the reputation of this extraordinary artist as one of the leading composers of his generation.
Christopher Page © 1992
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2012, 06:11:10 PM
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Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2012, 08:29:21 PM
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Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2012, 09:10:11 PM
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Post by: Que on February 18, 2012, 12:44:15 AM
Guillaume de Machaut, Messe de Nostre Dame, by Diabolus in Musica
Anyone able to make a brief comparison between this and the recordings that I have, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Harmonic/Cantus) and Ensemble Organum (HM)? :) And then there is the new recording by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)- there are too many! :o :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on February 18, 2012, 04:22:45 AM
Anyone able to make a brief comparison between this and the recordings that I have, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Harmonic/Cantus) and Ensemble Organum (HM)? :) And then there is the new recording by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)- there are too many! :o :)
Q
I wish I could say something useful here, Que, but I don't think I can. The Organum recording I don't know, but there are 5 I do know.
Vellard and Diabolus provide a musical/liturgical context. The Hilliards, Musica Nova and the Orlandos do not, but present it as is. Even for its time, the Messe is a strange, dark work. I think it benefits, then, from clearer, more muscular treatments. Vellard, the Orlandos and Diabolus come closest to this. The Hilliards, as usual, are too measured and reverberant, and I'm afraid Musica Nova follows that path. The Orlandos disc has the great benefit of juxtaposing Machaut with modern work by O'Regan and Bryar here:
Post by: Coopmv on February 18, 2012, 02:34:25 PM
Anyone able to make a brief comparison between this and the recordings that I have, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Harmonic/Cantus) and Ensemble Organum (HM)? :) And then there is the new recording by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)- there are too many! :o :)
Q
Q, Unfortunately, we have opened this Pandora's box called early music ... :o
Post by: Bogey on February 21, 2012, 03:29:24 AM
Starting the day with gorgeous voices.
Post by: chasmaniac on February 21, 2012, 03:53:25 AM
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Students and others who set themselves to the task of understanding the initially elusive musical language of the Renaissance often learn about Dufay and the cantus firmus -- the preexisting chant or song around which a mass was built -- and about his mathematically dizzying isorhythmic motet Nuper rosarum flores. The more intimate sacred motet, directly expressive of its text, seems to be more the province of Josquin Desprez, two generations later; Dufay's motets, many of which address Mary, are rather tough going for the newcomer. They are not closely tied to the text like the motets of Josquin, and even those that have a cantus firmus don't feature it as an obvious unifying device the way Dufay's masses do.
This superb French disc is the one that clarifies what Dufay's motets are all about. This may not knock Beethoven and Andrea Bocelli off the top of the classical charts, but anyone with an interest in the rather arcane musical language of the early Flemish-Italian Renaissance, or even in the art of the period, should add this disc to his or her library. The Ensemble Musica Nova strives for absolute clarity of texture. It sings a cappella (as Dufay himself is thought to have preferred), with text added to the untexted lower parts for greater intelligibility. The group sings precisely but in a relaxed fashion that gets across the crucial sense of when a line of the polyphony is being ornamented by the composer -- the sense of expression in Dufay's music is very much bound up with ornament and rhythm, which most performances don't communicate very well. The "flowers" referred to in the texts -- Mary, the city of Florence -- seem almost to burst from the music, which may seem remarkable to anyone who has sat through a lot of dull Dufay performances, but sample the first or the third track. (English text translations in the booklet do not, unfortunately, run parallel with the Latin and French, but follow them at the end.) The booklet notes are rather dense, not always smoothly translated ("to sing of death enabled musicians and poets to suggest a filiation"?) and confusingly divided into two separate essays, one dealing with the allusive quality of Dufay's texts and the other delving into musical structure and into what Dufay's audiences would have listened for in the two types of motets represented here, the motet with cantus firmus and the freely composed "song motet." The notes may be a hard slog for those without some previous knowledge of the subject, but effort expended in understanding them will bring these pieces alive and deepen the listener's perception of Dufay as the composer, perhaps more than any other, who lay right at the emergence of the idea of individual musical expression that is taken for granted today. The disc can also be appreciated for its sensuous surfaces alone, and Mornant church where the music was recorded could not have been more appropriate to the performers' aims. An essential choice for libraries -- the disc really furnishes enough material for an upper-level or graduate class all by itself -- or for Renaissance collections.
--allmusic
Post by: chasmaniac on February 22, 2012, 07:03:42 AM
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Dufay, writing in fifteenth century, is a figure of greater variety (and much greater profundity, for that matter) than is often realized. Attracting an enormous following and widespread admiration in Europe throughout his long lifetime, he wrote primarily for the church: Dufay was an ordained priest. But he used many forms – from elaborate and florid polyphonic masses to simple songs. And secular songs at that: over 80 survive which may in part or whole be safely attributed to the composer. If it is possible to generalize, one would say that Dufay's earlier songs were more extrovert, happier, upbeat, than those composed before the trials his life brought him; the later works tend to be reflective, morose even.
These songs generally date from two distinct periods in Dufay's life… from his late teens in 1414, 1415 on his leaving Cambrai to travel to various European courts, where he would have heard a variety of styles from England and Italy as well as France; this lasted until 1439, when Dufay returned to Cambrai. Duties at the Burgundian court and the cathedral virtually precluded any but liturgical compositions – until after Dufay's move, after 1451, to the court of Duke Louis and Duchess Anne of Savoy, whom we know to have been lively patrons of also the kind of secular music, the chansons by Dufay, some of which form the substance of this atmospheric, well-performed and appropriately-contextualized CD from Diabolus in Musica.
The majority of Dufay's output of this kind is rondeaux (with some ballades) for three (some for four) voices. The rest mostly follow such established structures as the ballade, bergerette/virelai and the like. Two tenors take the parts of the fundamental voice part (tenor), superius with the main text line; and a high voice the contratenor for additional color. These are taken by Raphaël Boulay (tenor), Frédéric Betous and Andrès Rojas-Urrego (altos) and Aïno Lund-Lavoipierre (soprano). They sing with unfussed enthusiasm, sweetness and an accurate and expressive articulation that seems to come from within the music's spirit, rather than gliding along the top of the melody as has happened with some recent Dufay recordings. This is highly effective. Nor – whatever your reservations about accompaniment – are the clavicytherium (an early spinet with as much hammer noise as sweet key sounds), gittern (plucked strings) and vièle (medieval fiddle) intrusive or superfluous. Their euphonic, low key adds a mellow tinge to the singing. It's worth noting that Guerber, the author of the essay in the accompanying booklet, disputes the work of recent musicologists and suggests that there is little or no evidence for an a cappella (unaccompanied) performing tradition, and cites Patterns in Play (by Graeme Boone) in support of what will be a somewhat controversial conclusion.
Technically what Dufay does to develop the achievements of the earlier and by now defunct Ars Subtilior is remarkable. Not only because of the inventiveness of theme, texture and melody; but also in terms of contrapuntal rhythm, the beauty of the effects and the fitness of music to words.
Those texts were almost all in the French of his day (only a handful were in Italian); although there are settings of Petrarch, Le Rousselet and Perinet etc, it is probable that Dufay wrote much of his own poetry.
The recording is a nice, close and intimate one with perfect balance between singers and the four instrumentalists playing here. The text of all the songs is printed in French and English in a useful, glossy booklet in the Alpha 'digipak' with candid photographs of the performances and performers. Guerber makes some interesting speculations on just who would have performed such songs as these and suggests that those retained for sacred music were unlikely also to have worked on the songs we hear on this CD. Less because of any distinction between the sobriety of the one and the freer and easier often dance-inspired ways of the other, than between the type of skills and traditions on which each broad genre was based.
So, if this is repertoire which in any way interests you, here is a first class introduction. If you're already persuaded of Dufay's greatness, you'll want to extend your exposure to his secular music. If medieval song performed exquisitely and idiomatically in unpretentious and direct manner, then do not hesitate to buy this CD. Thoroughly recommended.
Copyright © 2008, Mark Sealey
And this from the inimitable Bruno:
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Without a moment's doubt, I can say that this is the best-performed CD of Dufay's secular chansons that I've ever heard, with 19 of those supremely sophisticated miniature masterpieces assembled in a concert progress from love-sickness to joie-de-vivre. This recording is a perfect companion to Diabolus in Musica's CD of Dufay's most memorable mass, Missa Se La Face Ay Pale (which I've reviewed previously. Wonder of wonders, the chanson Se La Face Ay Pale is included on this disk, in an elaborated "keyboard" setting from a tablature manuscript, played on an instrument that worked somewhat like a harpsichord and sounds rather like a harp on energy drinks. The singers have to share glory in this performance with some extraordinarily skillful playing of late Medieval instruments: vielle (fiddle) and Burgundian harp especially. But there's plenty of glory to be shared.
The name of this ensemble - Diabolus in Musica - would probably get this CD banned from certain libraries in Alaska, but actually the term refers to the interval of the tritone (the augmented fourth) which either in chords or in scale passages caused innumerable headaches for polyphonists, always sounding "wrong' to their ears. The solution involved something called "musica ficta", the addition of a sharp or a flat to avoid the tritone. Such ficta were seldom notated; the performer was expected to recognize the need and to know the rules. Rest assured that Ensemble Diabolus in Musica is totally avoidant of devilish dissonances.
The secular chanson repertoire, from Machaut to Dufay, is the prime glory of Medieval music, as pre-eminent as the madrigal in the late Renaissance or the polka at a Minnesota family reunion.
Post by: The new erato on February 22, 2012, 07:12:22 AM
Post by: chasmaniac on February 22, 2012, 07:17:22 AM
I need Bruno to recommend me some polka CDs.
:D
Post by: chasmaniac on February 22, 2012, 07:35:27 AM
Ich rühm dich Heidelberg, I Ciarlatani
Post by: Coopmv on February 22, 2012, 06:08:26 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MJ6S6RRTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Starting the day with gorgeous voices.
Bill, I have this CD in my collection. It is excellent IMO ...
Post by: Bogey on February 23, 2012, 10:17:51 PM
Bill, I have this CD in my collection. It is excellent IMO ...
The A4 cds are some of my favorite, Stuart.
Post by: chasmaniac on February 24, 2012, 08:52:45 AM
The Mirror of Narcissus: Songs by Guillaume de Machaut, Gothic Voices
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2012, 09:00:06 AM
An oldie, but a goodie.
Post by: Coopmv on March 03, 2012, 07:04:23 PM
Now listening:
An oldie, but a goodie.
Any works by David Munrow on this twofer? I bought the following twofer a few weeks ago and it is wonderful ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QfzjobidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: kishnevi on March 03, 2012, 07:31:58 PM
Any works by David Munrow on this twofer? I bought the following twofer a few weeks ago and it is wonderful ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QfzjobidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Two different groups, two different time periods. There's about (speaking very roughly) a three hundred year gap between the music on the Munrow disc and the music on the Tallis Scholars disc. [ETA: the Philips duo is composed solely of performances by the Tallis Scholars, including their nearly divine performance of Spem in Alium. SiA and most of the other performances have been issued again (and sometimes again and again) on their own label, Gimell.]
The Tallis Scholars recording was both my introduction to Renassiance music and the start of my infatuation with the Tallis Scholars.
The Munrow recording is also another classic performance, although I rarely listen to it, as music from that era appeals to me much less than music from the later Middle Ages/Renaissance.
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2012, 07:50:30 PM
The Tallis Scholars recording was both my introduction to Renassiance music and the start of my infatuation with the Tallis Scholars.
Thanks for fielding that one. This twofer was my intro as well.
I have a ripping headache right now, but still wanted to listen to music. Going with this, which seems to be countering it a bit....very beautiful:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GQ3E7ZRQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Que on March 04, 2012, 12:59:08 AM
A beauty! :) Some brief comments: Nicholas Ludford was a new name to me, he was a contemporary of John Taverner. This seems very worthy music - what makes Ludford stand out in comparison with the English tradition of ethereal, long-spun movements, is the variation in settings and rhythmic treatment, which makes everything very expressive. But we still get the "heavenly" smooth sound, here including boys' voice, which is a big plus in this repertoire IMO. The 1st recording to do so, according to the booklet. Performance could occasionally a bit more tightly knit, but the recording was made at a festival so it comes with the territory. The recording got a Gramophone award in 2008. Here is the review:
Quote
Its a long while since David Fallows welcomed The Cardinall's Musick's recording debut with superlatives (ASV, 7/93). Ludford's six-voice festal Mass cycle on 1/Idete miraculum was followed by three other volumes, but these seemed not to quite fulfil the promise of the first; so the chance to hear again his other sixvoice settings is most welcome. Though not as showy as Taverner, his more understated idiom is every bit as persuasive. Repeated listening reveals great subtlety in the handling of texture, an exhilarating sense of confidence in formal planning, and real melodic inspiration. The opening of each movement is identical, and excludes the trebles, whose subsequent appearance in a different context is nicely managed. From the point of view of repertoire this is a major issue.
I've long admired New College's trebles, and here they show how much young singers can achieve in the way of cohesiveness, coherence and sheer persuasiveness of melodic shape. That speaks volumes, considering that, of all the
English choral repertory written for trebles, this is perhaps the most difficult for today's youngsters to master. I'd invite listeners to compare them to the recent recording by their near-neighbours Christ Church College of that cornerstone of this repertory, Taverner's Musa Glori tibi trinitas (Avie, 10/07), in which the trebles seemed to me to lack this sense of line, of unanimity of purpose. Here it's difficult to argue that adult female singers are demonstrably better equipped than boys: the advantage of bigger lungs is offset by the careful choice and placement of breaths. For the rest, I've always held that the tone of these particular trebles is anyway expressive in itself. More, please.
Review from AllMusic by James Mannheim:
Quote
Nicholas Ludford was a British contemporary of John Taverner, active during the first half of the sixteenth century. His music has only recently been unearthed, and based on this recording one can say it was not only worth the trouble but might even cause some rewriting in the history books. The main attraction is the six-voice Missa Benedicta et Venerabilis, which (like other English Renaissance masses) lacks a Kyrie and is sung with appropriate office chants between the polyphonic choral movements. What is most startling is the sheer expressivity of a good deal of the music. The Incarnatus, Crucifixus, and the almost abrupt, exuberant Et Resurrexit and conclusion of the Credo (track 6) are good places to start. Ludford reduces the texture to three or four voices and seems to focus on specific passages of text in a way that brings to mind no one as much as Josquin; this in a compositional world thought to be dominated by monumental, abstract polyphony. The music employs rhythmic shifts and some striking vertical sonorities, all again seemingly linked with the text, and the text-setting has some really outlandish details: Ludford likes, for instance, to kick off a cadential drive with the last syllable of the penultimate phrase of text rather than with the final phrase or "Amen." Oddly enough, the two votive anthems surrounding the mass are more conventional in style. The venerable New College Choir Oxford (men and boys), which was around when this music was composed, delivers a strong reading, with the boy trebles getting into the meaty spirit of the work and more than making up for occasional slips to the flat side of the tone in what is certainly quite difficult music to sing, and the recording ambiance of a church in the northeastern French town of Sarrebourg is ideal. An important find for devotees of English religious music or the Renaissance mass.
This is one Ludford's "festal masses" A complete set under Carwood and the Cardinall's Musick, consisting of 4 discs was issued by ASV, but is now OP. I looked into it, but read a comment that subsequent volumes didn't live up to the promises of the 1s volume... So I leave it be for now - maybe other members can comment on that set? :)
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/98/202798.jpg)
Q
Post by: Leon on March 04, 2012, 04:02:35 AM
Two different groups, two different time periods. ... music from that era appeals to me much less than music from the later Middle Ages/Renaissance.
I was just turning this idea over in my mind last night as I was listening to some music from the late 16th-17th C. I find it hard to keep the composers set in their time, and the spans for Medieval and Renaissance and the stylistic differences are so large they are almost meaningless. E.g., I find I tend to think of Dufay (early 1400s, usually included in Renassaince) having more in common with Machaut (~ 100 years prior) than say, Gesualdo (~ 100 years later), or composers from the late Renaissance.
I like so much from Machaut and the troubadours and even earlier that I don't think I can say definitively that music from the Renaissance is more liked than from the Medieval, but I think I know what you mean. There seems to be more variety with the Renaissance. And it may be that I like the principles of composition of the Middle Ages so much, e.g. isorhythm, and my judgment is not based entirely on the sound of the music.
It is all such wonderful music that I refuse to say which period is more pleasing to me than the other.
:)
Post by: Bogey on March 04, 2012, 04:42:05 AM
It is all such wonderful music that I refuse to say which period is more pleasing to me than the other.
:)
Quote of the year. :)
Post by: KeithW on March 05, 2012, 01:01:15 PM
This is one Ludford's "festal masses" A complete set under Carwood and the Cardinall's Musick, consisting of 4 discs was issued by ASV, but is now OP. I looked into it, but read a comment that subsequent volumes didn't live up to the promises of the 1s volume... So I leave it be for now - maybe other members can comment on that set? :)
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/98/202798.jpg)
Q
I was fortunate to obtain this set a few years ago - I would need to go back and listen again, but recall that the whole set was a joy - as with almost everything Cardinall's Musick has produced.
Post by: Coopmv on March 06, 2012, 05:51:43 PM
Two different groups, two different time periods. There's about (speaking very roughly) a three hundred year gap between the music on the Munrow disc and the music on the Tallis Scholars disc. [ETA: the Philips duo is composed solely of performances by the Tallis Scholars, including their nearly divine performance of Spem in Alium. SiA and most of the other performances have been issued again (and sometimes again and again) on their own label, Gimell.]
The Tallis Scholars recording was both my introduction to Renassiance music and the start of my infatuation with the Tallis Scholars.
The Munrow recording is also another classic performance, although I rarely listen to it, as music from that era appeals to me much less than music from the later Middle Ages/Renaissance.
I pretty much have purchased all the recordings by the Tallis Scholars on the Gimell label ...
Post by: Bogey on March 07, 2012, 06:11:16 PM
Just landed and spinning as I type. If you dig Spanish Renaissance, then snag this one for under 10 bones. I would like to tell you more about the selections, but the liner notes are nonexistent. However, purchase with confidence.
Post by: Josquin des Prez on March 11, 2012, 03:10:42 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Secular-Vocal-Works-Sweelinck/dp/B00284G2SA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1331507208&sr=8-7
For those of low moral fiber, or for those who are simply too strapped on cash, the series is being currently being posted at Axahome.
According to the Sweelinck's biography i've read, his best vocal works are supposed to be the Psalms of David, but those have always received less attention then the Cantiones Sacrae, which are supposed to be less complex harmonically. This series should take care of that once and for all.
Post by: Que on March 18, 2012, 12:50:09 AM
I was fortunate to obtain this set a few years ago - I would need to go back and listen again, but recall that the whole set was a joy - as with almost everything Cardinall's Musick has produced.
Thanks! :)
Now a short note on this disc:
Hans Leo Hassler (http://www.allmusic.com/artist/hans-leo-hassler-q2716/biography) is new to me. Key factor here is that Hassler studied in Venice and was influenced by Giovanni & Andrea Gabrieli as well as Roland de Lassus, and was instrumental in the influence of the Italian choral tradition on German music. Schutz built on that heritage.
Well, my conclusion upon hearing is: if you like Schutz, you'll like Hassler. Very pretty, in the sober Lutheran style akin the Schutz' works, though Hassler is a bit mellower, sweeter. Perhasp that is enhanced by Herreweghe's approach, which is as sensuous as ever. Read up on Bruno Giordano's excellent review on Amazon HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Hassler-Missa-Ensemble-Europeen-Herreweghe/product-reviews/B00015OOI8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)! :) He finds Herreweghe in this recording, despite this repertoire being outside his usual field of expertise, in top-form. The only small caveat is that Herreweghe uses bigger forces (not one-to-part) than necessary or preferable for this repertoire. I fully agree - though maybe not a must for everone, this recording is heartily recommended. Superb stuff. 8)
Recordings of Hassler's music are extremely thin on the ground, but there is this newly reissued 2CDset on Etcetera, previously available on Eufoda:
Q
Post by: Bogey on March 18, 2012, 04:54:32 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfmOpN5xnfln0rdmf_L0f4xpNr23LHrJ65Of5tVx0CnrKLRK4C)
Different, but very enjoyable. There was a "sacred" set from Hyperion that I want to look into. Anyone here have any cds from that set?
Another that I have been spinning that is top-shelf is:
Post by: Bogey on March 18, 2012, 05:41:16 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q4oCBi-iL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: coffee on March 21, 2012, 08:50:46 AM
I pretty much have purchased all the recordings by the Tallis Scholars on the Gimell label ...
What are your 10 or so favorite?
Post by: Coopmv on March 24, 2012, 03:31:48 PM
Not a more beautiful voice than Kirkby's to end the evening:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q4oCBi-iL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Yeah, here is another fan of Emma - have been a fan for over 20 years ... ;D
Post by: Coopmv on March 24, 2012, 04:05:45 PM
What are your 10 or so favorite?
I enjoyed all the works by Tallis, Byrd and Tomkins in no particular order ...
Post by: chasmaniac on March 25, 2012, 03:47:57 PM
Quote
Guillaume Dufay's Missa se la face ay pale is one of the earliest examples of a Mass being thematically based on the melody of a secular song. All who perform this masterpiece are indebted somewhat to David Munrow, whose ground-breaking 1973 EMI (now Virgin) recording with the Early Music Consort of London remains the standard by which all are judged. In the notes, Diabolus in Musica (The Devil in Music) director Antoine Guerber dedicates this performance to Munrow's memory (he committed suicide in 1976) and describes first listening to Munrow's performance 20 years ago both as a revelation and as a key factor that inspired his love of medieval music. That humble acknowledgment aside, Guerber and colleagues also pay homage to Munrow's legacy in the most important of ways--by offering arguably the best performance of this work since that of his mentor.
Unlike Munrow, who in his recording offered Dufay's original chanson and only the five primary sections of the Mass, occasionally augmented with instrumentation, Guerber takes a more purist, authentic approach. He not only eschews instrumentation, but also for a more complete presentation reconstructs the piece as was customary during the period, adding other sacred elements (in this case the Proper for Trinity Sunday). Other performers have completed their versions in similar fashion, but in comparison to Diabolus in Musica, the harmonics and textural balances suffer because of the often unorthodox ensemble sizes. For example, the four otherwise vocally outstanding members of the Hilliard Ensemble sound insufficiently thin and austere. Binkley's full choral arrangement (Focus) impresses, though it goes to the other extreme by sounding equally disproportionate. In Guerber's version the balances and clarity are absolutely perfect. There are many moments--though especially in the Credo and Sanctus--where the ensemble's sensuous expression of Dufay's complex polyphony can only be described as a religious experience.
Alpha's sound is gorgeous--richly detailed yet not at the expense of a naturally illusionistic acoustic setting. Guerber's notes are a joy to read, and as usual, Alpha's presentation is first class. Given the caliber of these performances, perhaps Guerber will inspire others to play and listen to this repertoire much as Munrow did before him.
--John Greene, ClassicsToday.com
Post by: Leon on March 26, 2012, 10:16:09 AM
:)
Post by: Que on March 26, 2012, 10:27:20 PM
This
:)
Looked for more info on the composer and found a helpful biography (http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/vitry.php).
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 02:23:17 AM
Looked for more info on the composer and found a helpful biography (http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/vitry.php).
Q
See upthread, reply #369.
Post by: Leon on March 27, 2012, 02:47:42 AM
See upthread, reply #369.
He is under represented in the catalog, in my opinion.
:)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 03:00:08 AM
He is under represented in the catalog, in my opinion.:)
I'd like to agree. The album you cite is gorgeous. But there seems to be a problem securely ascribing works to Vitry.
Post by: Leon on March 27, 2012, 03:41:44 AM
I'd like to agree. The album you cite is gorgeous. But there seems to be a problem securely ascribing works to Vitry.
True, but there is more evidence for him than most of the period. Here's part (there's considerably more, I just grabbed the first two graphs) of the Grove entry about his works and detective work on making attributions.
Apart from the special case of Machaut, most 14th-century music survives anonymously. Only two works are attributed in any musical source to Vitry. One of these (Impudenter circuivi/Virtutibus) was in F-Sm 222 (burned in 1871), the other (O canenda/Rex quem) is in a fragment (CH-Fcu Z 260) whose authority may be somewhat undermined in that its other piece is misattributed to Machaut. In Vitry we encounter a well-known public figure of formidable learning and authority whose general culture and musical composition are attested in a wide range of extra-musical sources, encouraging the enterprise of identifying his music among anonymously transmitted pieces. Vitry’s stature not only as a theorist but as a composer was first revived by Besseler, the first to attribute (eight) anonymous motets to him. Schrade extended this list to the 14 (plus one without music) in his edition.
The evidence on which modern scholars have proposed such identifications includes internal evidence from the poetic texts, such as the authorial ‘hec concino Philippus’ of Cum statua/Hugo, and the possibly self-referential ‘concinat Gallus’ in Tribum/Quoniam. The vituperative style that seems to be characteristic of Vitry may be reflected in vocabulary. Citations in treatises and literary sources are also taken as evidence for his authorship: motet titles are cited in three chapters of Ars nova, one on variations between perfect and imperfect modus and tempus, one on the use of red notes. Now that this treatise’s connection to Vitry has been loosened, an earlier notion, itself questionable, that such self-citation guaranteed his authorship of a group of works including some of the Fauvel motets, fades further, while not disqualifying their attribution on other grounds. Douce/Garison is mentioned by Gaces de la Bugne as a work of Vitry’s, naming him also as Bishop of Meaux (thus dating the mention after 1351); Kügle interpreted this reference as indicating an early work. Cum statua/Hugo and Vos/Gratissima are attributed to Vitry in the Quatuor principalia. The manuscript F-Pn lat.3343 contains the ballade De terre en grec Gaulle appellee, and also presents the texts of Phi millies Deus pulcherrime/O Creator, for which no music survives, and the triplum text of Petre clemens/Lugentium with the ascription ‘hunc motetum fecit Philippus de Vitriaco pro papa Clemente’, an ascription now corroborated by Wathey (1993) with a precise dating. Transmission of motet texts without music but with attribution to Vitry has also been taken as evidence of his authorship of these motets. The implication that he wrote his own texts is corroborated by parallel passages in motets, and in books from his library with those passages marked or annotated by him. Tribum/Quoniam has now been more firmly linked with Vitry in this way (Wathey, 1998). It must now be asked whether such separate survival is sufficiently strong evidence for the attribution of other motet texts preserved in this way, since the same group also includes some motets ascribed to him on independent grounds (notably Flos/Celsa but also the still questionable Quid scire/Dantur); some of these are mentioned in treatises. Attributions are also based on style and construction as well as on links between pieces (see especially Leech-Wilkinson, Kügle, Coplestone-Crow).
[Margaret Bent and Andrew Wathey. "Vitry, Philippe de." Grove Music Online. Oxford Music Online (http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/subscriber/article/grove/music/29535). 27 Mar. 2012.]
Post by: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 04:22:34 AM
I am myself frustrated by the relative paucity of Ars Nova works in the catalogue, even including, as I do, the Ars Subtilior among them. Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia and Anonymous -- that's it! for substantial recorded oeuvres at least. :-\ Then you've reached Binchois and Dufay and the music has a different character altogether.
If you've discovered more 14c beauties than I have, do tell!
Edited to add: I failed to mention the marvellous Solage. But what does his stuff amount to, half a disc? Alas!
Post by: Leon on March 27, 2012, 09:57:54 AM
I don't have access to the Grove. Good to see the academics are hard at work! :)
I am myself frustrated by the relative paucity of Ars Nova works in the catalogue, even including, as I do, the Ars Subtilior among them. Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia and Anonymous -- that's it! for substantial recorded oeuvres at least. :-\ Then you've reached Binchois and Dufay and the music has a different character altogether.
If you've discovered more 14c beauties than I have, do tell!
Edited to add: I failed to mention the marvellous Solage. But what does his stuff amount to, half a disc? Alas!
Jacopo da Bologna: Italian Madrigals of the 14th Century
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b3rD-m4EL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Monch von Salzburg
There is a workable list of composers from the 14th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medieval_composers) (and earlier) at Wikipedia. In many cases some of their work can be found on Amazon, either on a disc devoted to them on among a compilation of 14th C. music.
:)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 28, 2012, 06:18:34 AM
Ars Nova: Il Trecento, Ensemble Real, Arion 68462
Bestiarium: Animals and Nature in Medieval Music, La Reverdie, Cantus 9601
Vous ou la mort: Canciones flamencas de amor cortés en el siglo XV, Concerto Palatino, Cantus 9607
Medée Fu: Música francesa e italiana de finales del siglo XIV, Ensemble Tritonus XIV, Verso 2005
Post by: chasmaniac on March 29, 2012, 04:45:40 AM
One doesn't hear a clavisimbalum every day, by gum. 'Tis gossamer, gossamer, I tells ya! The notes form a fine essay, by the way. Can't find a review, so here's a blurb:
Quote
Late fourteenth-century instrumental music that forms the core of the present release comes from the two most important surviving sources of this repertoire: the London and the Faenza codices. While the performance medium repeatedly employed in recordings of both monophonic and polyphonic instrumental music of the Late Middle Ages has been a band of various instruments, the present recital demonstrates, that all it takes to bring this exquisite music back to life is a single, persuasive performer. Corina Marti sets out “in search of the delightful flowers” (Jacopo da Bologna) hidden in those two distinct universes of Late Medieval music, the monophonic and the polyphonic. In this, her solo debut, she achieves a remarkable variety by juxtaposing the sound of recorders (including the double recorder so frequently seen in the fourteenth-century Italian iconography) and of a clavisimbalum – a reconstruction of the earliest form of a harpsichord.
Post by: kishnevi on March 29, 2012, 07:49:15 AM
A whole list of delectable goodies, but this one jumps out! :) Since the discovery of this important Striggio mass, only one other recording has been issued, and that was not quite what I was looking for: (very) large forces and in British choral style. I was waiting for a more appropriate approach and Niquet might be the ticket. Please keep me posted on that one. :)
Q
Not sure about it. I was going to say it makes the music sound like Gabrieli a generation too early, but then I realized I was thinking mostly of the Benevoli pieces, which date well after Gabrieli, not to mention Striggio.
There is one singer per part, but many of the vocal lines are doubled by instruments, so it's not pure a cappella. Since Striggio himself is documented to have used instruments at least some of the time in performing the mass, it's not unHIP. But Tallis Scholars style performance it isn't.
I do suggest getting it--the non Striggio pieces are at least as interesting and well performed, and presumably not well represented by recordings. They include Orazio Benevoli (Laetatus sum, Miserere, Magnificat) and mass propers by Francesco Corteccia; the recording is sequenced to represent a Mass of St. John the Baptist as sung in the Duomo of Florence during Striggio's lifetime (Corteccia was then the music master of the cathedral), but with the Benevoli motets anachronistically included.
Post by: Que on March 29, 2012, 10:35:49 PM
Q
Post by: bumtz on April 05, 2012, 11:22:34 PM
Post by: Leon on April 06, 2012, 03:44:27 AM
I dilettosi fiori: 14th Century Music for Clavisimbalum and Flutes, Corina Marti
One doesn't hear a clavisimbalum every day, by gum. 'Tis gossamer, gossamer, I tells ya! The notes form a fine essay, by the way. Can't find a review, so here's a blurb:
I found this disc on Spotify and am listening to it now. Very nice; reminds me of a cimbalum.
Post by: chasmaniac on April 06, 2012, 04:44:02 AM
Just got this one yesterday, and listened to it three times in a row. Ferrara Ensemble is excellent as always.
I'll have to spin this. Haven't heard it in a while.
Post by: Bogey on April 09, 2012, 04:13:30 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: KeithW on April 09, 2012, 04:30:46 PM
Well, after all the positive reviews here and a $25 gift card from my sister, I grabbed this still in the shrink wrap for 10 bones:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Well done! I paid more than that, but still thought I got a bargain given the quality.
Post by: Bogey on April 09, 2012, 04:49:01 PM
Well done! I paid more than that, but still thought I got a bargain given the quality.
It is quickly becoming a standard here. :D
Post by: Mr. Stevens Senior on April 11, 2012, 06:42:02 PM
Mine. Mine Mine. Mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine!
I have to point out, however, that the first one's available at Presto (where I got it), for a little more than half the amazon seller's price.
Post by: Que on May 06, 2012, 12:17:16 AM
As you can tell from the Vermeer on the cover and the name of the owner of the virginal book performed here, the music on this disc is from the Netherlands.
How does Dutch Renaissance keyboard music sound like? Well, it's stylistically closest to the English tradition, but with influences from France and Italy. This is not highbrow music from the period, but a very cute disc indeed. Performed are adaptations of psalm settings, dances and songs. They are interspersed by flute music by Jacob van Eyk, performed by Patrick Denecker. Not an indispensable disc per se, but with unusual repertoire, beautifully performed. As said: a cute disc for those into this kind of stuff! :)
Also note the use of a type of a typically Flemish double virginal (this might be of interest to Dave (Sonic)!) called "mother and child" (moeder en kind) - a smaller, higher tuned, virginal is inside the "mother" virginal and can be played separately. See also the explanation by Johan van Veen in the review quoted below. Unfortunately of this particular instrument, a copy after Ruckers, I couldn't find a suitable picture. But here is a very similar looking one: (the "child" is placed left inside the "mother")
(http://www.hubharp.com/images/FIweb300/VirgMus275web.jpg)
Johan van Veen tells you everything else you need to know about this recording:
It is a well-known collection of pieces for many keyboard players, the so-called Susanne van Soldt-manuscript, or - as it is called here - Virginal Book. The latter name reflects what Guy Penson thinks this music was intended for, the virginals. That isn't a matter of bold speculation: the manuscript reflects the music practice in the Netherlands, and the virginals were arguably the most widespread keyboard instrument among the upper class in the Low Countries. Antwerp was a centre of keyboard building, and a famous builder like Ruckers built many virginals, some of which have been preserved.
The question musicologists have tried to answer is who this Susanne van Soldt might have been. One of them is Alan Curtis, who edited the modern edition of this manuscript, published in 1961. It seems almost certain that Susanne van Soldt was the daughter of a wealthy Protestant merchant from Antwerp, who fled to London after the siege of the city by the Spanish in 1585. The archives of the Dutch Reformed Church in London record a baptism of a Susanne, daughter of Hans van Soldt, on 20 May 1586. As Susanne put her name and the year 1599 on the fly leaf of the manuscript, one may conclude that it contained material for her keyboard lessons, which would fit with her age of 13.
The manuscript contains pieces which were very popular in the Low Countries. Most of them are dances and songs, the kind of pieces frequently published by printers in Paris and Antwerp. Some are based on French, others on Italian models. They contain moderate ornamentation, also a argument for the assumption this was material for educational purposes. In addition some slightly ornamented harmonisations of Psalm settings are in the manuscript. The melodies are from the Genevan Psalter, used by the French Huguenots and the Calvinists in the Netherlands. This is additional evidence that Susanne van Soldt belonged to a Protestant family.
Guy Penson uses two different kind of virginals, both copied after historical originals by Jef Van Boven in Ekeren. The first is a typical Ruckers instrument, called a mother and child virginal. "The name 'mother and child'coms from a peculiarity in the instrument's construction: insid the instrument is another smaller virginal that can be removed, like a baby leaving its mother's womb. This smaller virginal sounds an octave higher and can be played separately as well as being coupled to the main keyboard. After having removed the jack rail from the main instrument, the smaller instrument is placed on top of the larger; thanks to a clever mechanism, the jacks of the larger instrument also push those of the smaller instrument and the two arrays of strings thus play simultaneously" (Jérôme Lejeune in the booklet). The other instrument is a 'normal' instrument, also modelled after an original Ruckers instrument; it is what was called a muselaer in the Low Countries.
Pieces from this collection are regularly performed and recorded, but this is the first recording of the complete manuscript. This was a splendid idea as it not only gives a very good impression of music life in the Low Countries around 1600, but also contains very good and enoyable music. Guy Penson has ordered the pieces in such a way that there is a large amount of variety in form and character between the pieces. He also has ordered them in groups, which are played almost without interruption. This ensures this is more than a sequence of very short pieces - most last less than 2 minutes. In addition Patrick Denecker plays some pieces by Jacob van Eyck, th famous Dutch recorder player of the 17th century. He is historically quite a bit later than the time this manuscript was compiled, but stylistically he is pretty close to what this collection contains. Denecker also joins Guy Penson in some pieces from the Susanne van Soldt-manuscript, and Penson on his turn joins Denecker in one of Van Eyck's pieces.
This is a very interesting and musically enthralling recording. Many of the melodies will be familiar to people who regularly listen to 'early music'. Both artists give splendid performances, lively, imaginative and with rhythmic flexibility. The instruments have been excellently recorded and the booklet gives all the information one needs. In short, an exemplary production.
Johan van Veen (© 2009)
Q
Post by: Coopmv on May 06, 2012, 10:35:06 AM
Well, after all the positive reviews here and a $25 gift card from my sister, I grabbed this still in the shrink wrap for 10 bones:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Welcome to the club, Bill. This set has been in my collection for close to 2 years ...
Post by: Que on May 10, 2012, 08:45:48 PM
I do seriously wonder if not Lassus Pentitential Psalms is the greatest late renaissance music ever written.
I'm just getting into it, but it's absolutely gorgeous! :) Lassus is IMO definitely one of the big ones in Early music.
I'm very happy with this recording - the combination Lassus & Herreweghe has worked for me splendedly so far! Do you have the same? :)
Q
Post by: The new erato on May 10, 2012, 11:08:33 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61oodvg0aJL.jpg)Yes I do and I agree. I also have the Hyperion set (not as good). But I do absolutely love the old Bruno Turner/Pro Cantione Antiqua recordings of some of these psalms on Archiv, even though they are not as technically accomplished as modern ensembles they have an almost frightening intensity. I feel as if those guys really were repenting.
I'm just getting into it, but it's absolutely gorgeous! :) Lassus is IMO definitely one of the big ones in Early music.
I'm very happy with this recording - the combination Lassus & Herreweghe has worked for me splendedly so far! Do you have the same? :)
Q
Compared to the breadth of his catalogue and his reputation, Lassus is probably the most seriously underrecorded composer of all.
Post by: Que on May 11, 2012, 10:51:30 PM
Yes I do and I agree.
Next on my list will be this Lassus recording by Herreweghe, which is fortunately still available: :) :)
Judging from this review from Allmusic, it's must be worthwhile! :)
As Orlande Lassus' production in the motet genre is of such enormity, the numerous published collections that appeared before his sons pulled them all apart to construct the Magnum Opus Musicum of 1604 are extremely useful in grasping their chronology and the context in which Lassus himself may have considered these things. Lassus' established valedictory work is the seven-voice madrigal collection Lagrime di San Pietro, which appeared one year after he died in 1594. However, in 1594 itself he also published in Graz a six-voice collection entitled Cantiones sacrae that is more or less in the same vein as the Lagrime -- mournful, masterful, and as summary for what was for Lassus a long and productive career. The Lagrime have been recorded entirely a number of times, even once by the expert group featured here, Collegium Vocale Ghent led by Philippe Herreweghe. However, the Cantiones sacrae doesn't seem to have been recorded by anyone before, not even part of it, though that is not 100% surprising as so much of Lassus' work remains untouched by recording artists. Therefore, Herreweghe has the scoop; however, it is not just of an interesting sidelight to the repertoire that only needed attention and might have well been forgotten without his advocacy. Cantiones sacrae is a major work, featuring Lassus at his best and in his most fully developed motet idiom. The singing, too, is flexible and fluid, superbly balanced and resolutely in tune; a key ingredient for success here, as the morphology of Lassus' vocal textures can be so rapid and disorienting, keeping the pitch centered can be a major job in itself. There are many highlights; a marvelous descending passage in Qui timet Deum; a dense web of polyphony spreading out from a single pitch as in Deficiat in dolore vita mea; a rolling, free-wheeling sense of imitation in Quam bonus Israel Deus. For those in tune with Renaissance polyphony, Philippe Herreweghe and Collegium Vocale's Cantiones sacrae is going to be essential listening and should not be missed, and one would think this little-known work's propinquity to Lagrime di San Pietro -- the last, great blast of Renaissance vocal music -- would be enough of a motivator in itself to bring out the tribe Uncle Dave Lewis (Allmusic)
Another work by Lassus that intrigues me, is the motet collection Prophetiae Sibyllarum (http://www.answers.com/topic/prophetiae-sibyllarum-chromatico-more-singulari-confectae-motet-collection-for-4-voices). Could anyone comment on the available options? :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51aSHuKGTML.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-eug6RcKL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5184GX2JXFL.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jYVN3HVpL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu3Iq0edL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kiECqhk8L.jpg)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 01:40:47 AM
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 02:31:56 AM
Prophetiae Sibyllarum: I have the Cantus Colln. It is very precise and quick (I'm given to understand), and the recording relatively dry. Other folks seem to find them cold, but I think this a typically fine effort from a wonderful group.The music itself is quite notey, more thrilling than atmospheric. Good stuff.
Instinctively I also eyed the Cantus Cölln recording. Then I read on Amzon that Bruno Giordano, whose opinion I value, changed his allegiances from that recording to the newer one by the ensemble Daedalus under Roberto Festa (Alpha). So I'm seriously considering that one - the fact that the Cantus Cölln is OOP also weighs in to it. :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 02:40:44 AM
Instinctively I also eyed the Cantus Cölln recording. Then I read on Amzon that Bruno Giordano, whose opinion I value, changed his allegiances from that recording to the newer one by the ensemble Daedalus under Roberto Festa (Alpha). So I'm seriously considering that one - the fact that the Cantus Cölln is OOP also weighs in to it. :)
Q
It is included in the super bargain box - someting to consider.
Post by: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 02:58:41 AM
It is included in the super bargain box - someting to consider.Good thing I didn't order it then, as I have this box, and didn't know. Strange how Lassus isn't mentioned on the front, despite having a complete disc to himself!
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 03:08:03 AM
It is included in the super bargain box - someting to consider.
Absolutely, thanks! :)
Q
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 03:27:06 AM
Absolutely, thanks! :)
Q
Good thing I didn't order it then, as I have this box, and didn't know. Strange how Lassus isn't mentioned on the front, despite having a complete disc to himself!
Happy to be of service!
Post by: Drasko on May 12, 2012, 03:29:29 AM
Brand new from Hilliards, Gesualdo 5th book of Madrigals. I managed to get my grubby paws on few tracks from that and thought why not put up not-so-blind comparison for the hordes of madrigal lovers of this forum (all three of you). So here are the same two madrigals (in flac) by Hilliards, La Venexiana and Concerto Italiano. Feel free to share your thoughts with the rest of us, or not.
Gioite voi col canto
The Hilliard Ensemble (http://www.mediafire.com/?fbvvtchui4et03s)
La Venexiana (http://www.mediafire.com/?jb8ap5uhfyhyn7b)
Concerto Italiano (http://www.mediafire.com/?ipge18ltn3iw8yr)
S'io non miro non moro
The Hilliard Ensemble (http://www.mediafire.com/?4qb888fcjpq88g7)
La Venexiana (http://www.mediafire.com/?o38pra3hjrx4wrt)
Concerto Italiano (http://www.mediafire.com/?mlh428yycp87ija)
Enjoy.
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 03:56:41 AM
1. Salve flos Tusce gentis
(Guillaume Dufay, Ensemble Musica Nova)
2. Inclita stella maris
(Guillaume Dufay, Ensemble Musica Nova)
3. Quel fronte signorille in paradiso
(Guillaume Dufay, Gothic Voices)
4. Le ray au soleyl
(Johannes Ciconia, Ensemble P.A.N.)
5. Se congié prens
(Josquin Desprez, Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
6. Cueurs desolez
(Josquin Desprez, Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
7. Tres morillas m’enamoran en Jaén
(anonymous, Ensemble Accentus)
8. Ther is no rose of swych virtu
(anonymous, Gothic Voices)
9. Gloria
(Pycard, Gothic Voices)
10. The Agincourt Carol
(anonymous, Gothic Voices)
11. Dame, a vous sans retollir
(Guillaume de Machaut, Ensemble P.A.N.)
12. Nove cantum melodie
(Gilles Binchois, The Binchois Consort)
13. De Fortune me doi plaindre
(Guillaume de Machaut, Ensemble Musica Nova)
14. Son cuer men vois
(Guillaume de Machaut, Ensemble Musica Nova)
15. Helas! je voy mon cuer
(Solage, Gothic Voices)
Post by: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 03:59:00 AM
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 04:03:24 AM
How I would love to get references to what albums these tracks were originally on!
I'll get back to you on that. No time just now.
Post by: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 04:15:19 AM
I'll get back to you on that. No time just now.Nice and helpful if you could do it, but don't feel obliged!
Post by: Coopmv on May 12, 2012, 06:04:03 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61oodvg0aJL.jpg)
I'm just getting into it, but it's absolutely gorgeous! :) Lassus is IMO definitely one of the big ones in Early music.
I'm very happy with this recording - the combination Lassus & Herreweghe has worked for me splendedly so far! Do you have the same? :)
Q
I only have 6 individual recordings dedicated entirely to his works and expect to add a few new titles to my collection this year. He is just one of the many early music composers in my ever growing early music collection ...
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 09:04:32 AM
How I would love to get references to what albums these tracks were originally on!
1-2. Flos Florum: Motets, Hymnes, Antiennes, Ensemble Musica Nova, Zig Zag 50301
3. A Song for Francesca: Music in Italy, 1330-1430, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21286
4. Homage to Johannes Ciconia, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 48
5-6. Chansons de la Renaissance (2), Ensemble Gilles Binchois, Virgin Veritas 07623
7. Cancionero Musical de Palacio: Music at the Spanish Court, 1505-1520, Ensemble Accentus, Naxos 8553536
8-10. The Service of Venus and Mars: Music for the Knights of the Garter, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21238
11. Remède de Fortune, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 068
12. Mass for St. Anthony Abbot et al., The Binchois Consort, Helios 67474
13-14. Ballades, Ensemble Musica Nova, Aeon 0982
15. The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut, Gothic Voices, Avie 2089
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 10:28:46 AM
Q
Post by: jlaurson on May 22, 2012, 01:07:27 PM
K.Bezuidenhout then proceeded to play the heck out of one of them.
Notes from the 2012 Dresden Music Festival ( 1 )
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G3kIvbiVq_E/T7wIRK9Cu0I/AAAAAAAACAU/GdkIKqbRONE/s1600/notes-from-the-dresden-music_festival.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qLKjHZOHkWw/T7vMWDQDFOI/AAAAAAAACAE/w-XobW9Jqrg/s1600/Palais_im_Garten2.jpg)
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/05/notes-from-2012-dresden-music-festival.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/05/notes-from-2012-dresden-music-festival.html)
Post by: The new erato on May 22, 2012, 08:47:03 PM
1-2. Flos Florum: Motets, Hymnes, Antiennes, Ensemble Musica Nova, Zig Zag 50301Yes great; Thank you!
3. A Song for Francesca: Music in Italy, 1330-1430, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21286
4. Homage to Johannes Ciconia, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 48
5-6. Chansons de la Renaissance (2), Ensemble Gilles Binchois, Virgin Veritas 07623
7. Cancionero Musical de Palacio: Music at the Spanish Court, 1505-1520, Ensemble Accentus, Naxos 8553536
8-10. The Service of Venus and Mars: Music for the Knights of the Garter, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21238
11. Remède de Fortune, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 068
12. Mass for St. Anthony Abbot et al., The Binchois Consort, Helios 67474
13-14. Ballades, Ensemble Musica Nova, Aeon 0982
15. The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut, Gothic Voices, Avie 2089
Post by: kishnevi on May 25, 2012, 03:09:01 PM
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/733487.jpg)
19 CDs--in essence, it's the complete (I think) box of the Capella Augustana recordings
ATM, Arkivmusic is offering a somewhat lower price than Amazon.
Post by: Coopmv on July 09, 2012, 08:56:16 AM
US release date May 29
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/733487.jpg)
19 CDs--in essence, it's the complete (I think) box of the Capella Augustana recordings
ATM, Arkivmusic is offering a somewhat lower price than Amazon.
Amazon rarely has the best price for anything unless it offers some teaser price for some new release when 9 out of 10 buyers will get an order cancellation after weeks of waiting ... ::)
Post by: Drasko on July 15, 2012, 01:21:27 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HXK4ihupL.jpg)
Hyperion website offers Kyrie as free download, nice touch for sampling purposes.
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959&vw=dc
Also, few The Clerk's Group Ockeghem disc are coming back in print. Any opinions on these?
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau186.jpg)(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau189.jpg)
Missa Caput et al Missa Cuiusvis Toni, Missa Quinti Toni, Celeste Beneficium
Post by: DaveF on July 18, 2012, 12:23:52 PM
Also, few The Clerk's Group Ockeghem disc are coming back in print. Any opinions on these?
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau186.jpg)(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau189.jpg)
Missa Caput et al Missa Cuiusvis Toni, Missa Quinti Toni, Celeste Beneficium
That's good news - thanks for the alert. And at mid-price, too. The three I have (the three currently still in the catalogue) are wonderful, especially the Requiem and Missa Au travail suis. I hope this means that the other missing ones are also scheduled for re-release.
DF
Post by: Coopmv on July 22, 2012, 12:57:58 PM
Promising new release:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HXK4ihupL.jpg)
Hyperion website offers Kyrie as free download, nice touch for sampling purposes.
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959&vw=dc
Also, few The Clerk's Group Ockeghem disc are coming back in print. Any opinions on these?
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau186.jpg)(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau189.jpg)
Missa Caput et al Missa Cuiusvis Toni, Missa Quinti Toni, Celeste Beneficium
They are all excellent. IIRC, I only have one "volume" I do not have ...
Post by: Coopmv on July 22, 2012, 12:59:21 PM
Post by: Coopmv on August 26, 2012, 09:35:53 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61zkNfbiz3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: petrarch on August 27, 2012, 01:19:19 PM
Here's a 7-min video about the occasion:
http://vimeo.com/38214031 (http://vimeo.com/38214031)
Post by: Coopmv on August 28, 2012, 01:53:34 PM
On the topic of Ockeghem, there is also this coming soon, from the great Diabolus in Musica/Antoine Guerber, on occasion of their 20-year celebration. I have all of their releases from 2002 onwards, and each one of them is special; can't wait to get this one.
Here's a 7-min video about the occasion:
http://vimeo.com/38214031 (http://vimeo.com/38214031)
Have to check this one out ...
Post by: petrarch on October 01, 2012, 12:54:43 PM
Post by: (: premont :) on October 09, 2012, 09:36:06 AM
Just got half a dozen CDs on Arcana by La Reverdie (http://www.lareverdie.com/eng/index.php). Enjoying every single one of them thoroughly!
Just get the rest of their recordings, outstanding stuff.
Post by: StLukesguildOhio on November 22, 2012, 08:41:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hZA6I%2BhGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Que on December 31, 2012, 12:57:12 AM
I am interested in that Vaet series, Que. My only points of reference for him are a couple recordings by Cinquencento, on Hyperion:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WdASJqP-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61O7deSwMkL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
only part of the first of which is Vaet's music.
I was hypnotized by MISSA EGO FLOS CAMPI in particular, but I haven't moved any further.
I think exploring Jacobus Vaet further would be very worthwhile. Found him a real find - an original style with sobriety and complex density at the same time. Despite the fact that he often used material of other composers as a base - more a sign of unselfish admiration - very much his own man. I find him more engaging than Gombert, for instance. And he has some of the sweetness of Lassus but remains closer to the roots of the Franco-Flemish School IMO.
I don't own the Cinquecento disc, but they sound upon sampling extremely accomplished, mandatory.
None of the discs by the Dufay Ensemble duplicates the Missa Ego Flos Campi, so that is fortunate. I've found their performances very satisfactory, maybe a bit less polish/brilliance than Cinquecento but nicely balanced performances of great integrity.
Anyway, I'm sure the online samples that plenty availble will tell you more than I can! :)
Q
Post by: Bogey on January 04, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qByvlFINL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Not many cds that feature ONLY him, but right now I am playing this and am absolutely mesmerized:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51klE56OW9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I also have this one from the Secret Labyrinth box set from Sony, but that is about it.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Bogey on January 05, 2013, 08:29:43 AM
Pulling this one out of the box set for a first listen.
Post by: Que on January 06, 2013, 01:03:27 AM
I think exploring Jacobus Vaet further would be very worthwhile. Found him a real find - an original style with sobriety and complex density at the same time. Despite the fact that he often used material of other composers as a base - more a sign of unselfish admiration - very much his own man. I find him more engaging than Gombert, for instance. And he has some of the sweetness of Lassus but remains closer to the roots of the Franco-Flemish School IMO.
I don't own the Cinquecento disc, but they sound upon sampling extremely accomplished, mandatory.
None of the discs by the Dufay Ensemble duplicates the Missa Ego Flos Campi, so that is fortunate. I've found their performances very satisfactory, maybe a bit less polish/brilliance than Cinquecento but nicely balanced performances of great integrity.
Anyway, I'm sure the online samples that plenty availble will tell you more than I can! :)
Q
I found some on line review of these Vaet discs at Classicalnet: Volume 1 (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/arm32403a.php) Volume 2 (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/arm32392a.php) Volume 3 (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/arm32403a.php)
Some excerpts:
Quote
The singing is of very high quality: unassuming, gentle, fluid and circumspect, without being either cautious or introspective as such. It's a style of singing that breathes respect and admiration for the gentle and delicate lines of melody which Vaet spins.
On the other hand, this is not whispered or in any way "under-performed" music. The Ensemble's articulation is clear and expressive. Each syllable is audible and comprehensible, wherever the polyphonic line so intends.
In the Dufay Ensemble's conception this emphasis on sonic impact is not a priority. Rather, the delicacy and pointedness of the texts. Every word is clear in the half dozen pieces which they perform here – even though the Te Deum and Magnificat are typically large scale, demonstrative, works. As you finish listening to this CD with its resonant acoustic, you will be left with a great sense of satisfaction. The Dufay Ensemble has emphasized expressivity and resolution over effect; and done Vaet a great service as a result.
[...] it's harder than ever to understand why Vaet should have been eclipsed when Lassus and Palestrina shone.
There's no comparable selection available. If there were, it would be hard to imagine its making the simple yet memorable impact that does the justifiably acclaimed Dufay Ensemble.
Q
Post by: Que on January 06, 2013, 01:07:43 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Pulling this one out of the box set for a first listen.
Bill, that is one of the best disc in the set - your admiration for Agricola is entirely justified! :) I was very impressed (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg525990.html#msg525990) myself.
Q
Post by: KeithW on January 06, 2013, 12:03:22 PM
Not many cds that feature ONLY him, but right now I am playing this and am absolutely mesmerized:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51klE56OW9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
That is a fantastic disc - one of my best buys last year.
Post by: Coopmv on January 06, 2013, 12:15:28 PM
Started the day with:
I think exploring Jacobus Vaet further would be very worthwhile. Found him a real find - an original style with sobriety and complex density at the same time. Despite the fact that he often used material of other composers as a base - more a sign of unselfish admiration - very much his own man. I find him more engaging than Gombert, for instance. And he has some of the sweetness of Lassus but remains closer to the roots of the Franco-Flemish School IMO.
I don't own the Cinquecento disc, but they sound upon sampling extremely accomplished, mandatory.
None of the discs by the Dufay Ensemble duplicates the Missa Ego Flos Campi, so that is fortunate. I've found their performances very satisfactory, maybe a bit less polish/brilliance than Cinquecento but nicely balanced performances of great integrity.
Anyway, I'm sure the online samples that plenty availble will tell you more than I can! :)
Q
Dufay Ensemble is a new name to me ...
Post by: bumtz on January 06, 2013, 04:08:42 PM
That is a fantastic disc - one of my best buys last year.
I like the Ferrara Ensemble CD on Deutsche Grammophon even more. It should be available for small amount of € at European amazons.
Post by: bumtz on February 02, 2013, 05:34:03 AM
Post by: Que on February 02, 2013, 04:39:32 PM
Huelgas Ensemble recording of Richafort's Requiem reissued on Harmonia Mundi and available cheap at UK amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A2CL6SQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i04
I noticed! It now has to compete with Cinquecento's new recording:
 |  |
Anyway, the music itself is selfrecommending! :)
Q
Post by: Octave on February 05, 2013, 06:44:07 AM
Was this recording also issued in some other edition that might not be showing in my searches? I am not even sure it's the best recording to search for, but samples sounded great.
Post by: Que on February 05, 2013, 07:41:59 AM
I am interested in getting another recording of Lassus' LAGRIME DI SAN PIETRO (the only one I have is the one included in the Huelgas/Nevel SECRET LABYRINTH box, a gift that keeps giving). Any recommendations for recordings would be appreciated, though I think I am most interested in the Herreweghe and unfortunately it seems to be OOP. I see two HM editions, 1994 and 2001:
I have the Herreweghe (as well as the Van Nevel) and it is superb! :) I'm sorry to say, considering the availability...
Anyway, that Diapason d'Or was well deserved
What might help is this other ASIN, with more affordable copies available:
Also, I noticed that HM has started a reissue of Early Music, though who knows when this recording might be up?
Q
Post by: Octave on February 21, 2013, 04:50:32 AM
I am interested in purchasing some stuff from the Cantus label. Apparently they were out of production for a while but are back in business, though I have had a hard time finding a few titles at Amazon, so it might be necessary for me to buy directly from them. If this ends up being the case, I might as well minimize my number of order with them. Does anyone know of some essential or truly excellent Cantus titles that they highly recommended? I am interested in the Handel DUETTI ITALIANI (La Venexiana et al) and the Machaut box set by Vellard et al (which can be had cheaper from Brilliant Classics, but apparently the Cantus package is much nicer and seems to include a ~290-page book (maybe all of this is included on the CDR of the Brilliant package anyway?).
Post by: Que on February 24, 2013, 05:24:01 AM
I never thanked Que for his Lassus assistance above; cheers for that, Que!
I am interested in purchasing some stuff from the Cantus label. Apparently they were out of production for a while but are back in business, though I have had a hard time finding a few titles at Amazon, so it might be necessary for me to buy directly from them. If this ends up being the case, I might as well minimize my number of order with them. Does anyone know of some essential or truly excellent Cantus titles that they highly recommended? I am interested in the Handel DUETTI ITALIANI (La Venexiana et al) and the Machaut box set by Vellard et al (which can be had cheaper from Brilliant Classics, but apparently the Cantus package is much nicer and seems to include a ~290-page book (maybe all of this is included on the CDR of the Brilliant package anyway?).
Don't have the Händel, but it looks enticing. Concerning the Mauchat/Velard items - I did get the Cantus box set and it is just a cardboard slipcase around all three individual issues, each with eleborate booklet. Very nice indeed and the recordings are strongly recommended. The Brilliant issue has a CDR with documentation, but that's all I know about it.
If you would decide to go down the original issues road, I would urge you not to make the same mistake as I did - well, I was half way - and consider this haul:
(http://images.ecwid.com/images/1265135/46621830.jpg) (http://www.cantus-records.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/C-9901-07_cours_back.jpg)
As you can see (click to enlarge) it contains all the three Machaut items + a 2CD with music from the Notre Dame School (Perotin et all), which I later found to be indispensable + a disc with Gregorian chants, which is not so much my thing, but I found this disc superb - if you ever get just one, this might be it + a disc with various repertoire called "Les Escoliers de Paris".
This can all be had for €40 + p&p straight from Cantus (http://www.cantus-records.com/store/?lang=en#!/~/product/category=2883694&id=14333214) which seems like very attractive price to me, considering that most is not to be found anywhere else anyway... The box with just the Machaut items is €20.
Over to you...
Happy hunting! :D
Q
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 05:56:27 AM
Post by: Que on February 24, 2013, 06:12:21 AM
I wonder if anyone out there can help me. I'm listening a bit now to Machaut's Lay de la fonteinne, but the only text I have is in 14th century french, which i can't read. Can anyone locate a text inmodern French or Enblish for me? My initial attempts with google have come up with nothing.
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66358
Q
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 06:40:52 AM
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66358
Q
Wonderful! Thanks.
I need to remember that Hyperion site -- it helped me out before with Couperin's Lecons.
Post by: Coopmv on February 24, 2013, 06:41:37 AM
A Spotify member, Jesse Brinkerhof, has created a playlist of music from Medieval and Renaissance periods. The list has nearly 9,000 tracks. I am listening right now to:
Requiems by Lassos and Ockeghem performed by the Laudantes Consort, led by Guy Janssens, from the excellent series History of Requiem
This is Vol. 1, there are four altogether.
Q, Can you help sort things out? Does the above CD include some excerpts from the one I have as shown below?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61R2X-e5MZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 06:45:06 AM
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66358
Q
Ahhhhh . . . It's about the trinity!!! I had no idea it was religious. I thought it was entirely secular.
Now I know why you have three voices singing sometimes on my record -- the one by Studio der frühen Musik.
Post by: Que on March 02, 2013, 04:30:22 AM
I noticed! It now has to compete with Cinquecento's new recording:
Anyway, the music itself is selfrecommending! :)
Q
I guess when it rains, it pours! :o
And this recent interesting Ockeghem recording by Musica Nova completely flew under my radar - anyone heard it yet? :)
Q
Post by: Mandryka on March 12, 2013, 09:30:43 AM
My question is this, what are the issues, vis à vis authenticity surrounding these recordings? They all feel quite different from each other. Oh, if anyone has a strong bond or the opposite w.r.t one of them, that would be fun to hear about too.
Post by: HIPster on April 09, 2013, 06:42:34 PM
I am now up to 10 CD's which would be considered Early Music in my collection and this one is in heavy rotation. . .
This is one of my favorite threads on GMG. Thank you to all who have posted recommendations and thoughts here.
Post by: HIPster on April 20, 2013, 11:19:12 AM
Is this group still active? I have 3 of their discs and they are fantastic.
Post by: petrarch on April 20, 2013, 11:49:13 AM
Is this group still active? I have 3 of their discs and they are fantastic.
Indeed, they are generally exceedingly good.
They are still active. Can't wait to get their latest:
Post by: HIPster on April 20, 2013, 12:01:52 PM
Indeed, they are generally exceedingly good.
They are still active. Can't wait to get their latest:
Excellent! Thank you, Petrarch!
Thanks are also in order to you for your mention of this group earlier in the thread. . .
I'm also interested in their Dark-Light disc and have it wishlisted on amazon.
Cheers!
Post by: petrarch on April 20, 2013, 12:45:42 PM
I'm also interested in their Dark-Light disc and have it wishlisted on amazon.
If I had to choose 3 of their releases, that one would be on that list, along with Sponsa Regis and Historia Sancta Eadmundi.
Post by: Octave on April 20, 2013, 08:29:46 PM
If I had to choose 3 of their releases, that one [NOX-LUX] would be on that list, along with Sponsa Regis and Historia Sancta Eadmundi.
Damn, it looks like I missed SPONSA REGIS. >:( [EDIT: ah, maybe not...] I really dug their Dufay ITALIE disc; I can't believe I haven't checked any other items from their discography.
Post by: chasmaniac on June 04, 2013, 06:42:57 AM
Post by: Que on June 23, 2013, 08:08:35 AM
In my search for discs by Van Nevel and his Huelgas Ensemble I stumbled upon this disc by Alfonso Ferrabosco the Elder (http://www.allmusic.com/artist/alfonso-ferrabosco-mn0001491104)(Il Padre). An Italian composer who spent most of his productive life in England. Now, there is a lot "cloak & dagger" stuff surrounding his life... 8) See the the link to Wiki.
Musically Ferrabosco was important in bringing to Britain the Italian Madrigal tradition, that was then still in its early stages with roots in the tradition that the Franco-Flemish composers brought to Italy. He seems to have been a major influence on William Byrd. What I hear is what I described: highly accomplished polyphonic music in the early Italian Madrigal tradition, similar to the music on the disc by Cipriano de Rore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipriano_de_Rore) that I bought before, also by Van Nevel. I previously discussed that disc HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg534609.html#msg534609). If you're into that kind of repertoire, this Ferrabosco disc is heartily recommended! :)
Review at Musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Dec05/Ferrabosco_HMC901874.htm) and Review at Classicstoday (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11914/)
The disc above led me to order this viol music disc from jpc:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/071/MI0001071084.jpg) (http://www.allmusic.com/album/alfonso-ferrabosco-consort-music-mw0001846196)
(Picture linked to samples, Amazon US (http://www.amazon.com/Consort-Music-A-Ferrabosco/dp/B00008WD62).
This disc contains actually music by father and son, the latter being a viol player at the English court.
Review at Musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Jan05/Ferrabosco_consort.htm)
Highly technical accomplished viol consort music that sounds very much in the English tradition, both by father and son. Tranquil and introspective in mood with lots of elaborate counterpoint, though not innovation or ground breaking likes Lawes or Jenkins. I like the performance by the Rose Consort of Viols - very idiomatic, more mellow in approach than their colleagues from Fretwork and Phantasm. A nice disc that would get a deserved place in any viol music collection IMO. :)
BTW: Jordi Savall did a disc with viol music just by Alfonso Ferrabosco The Younger.
Q
EDIT: fixed the linked to the Musicweb review of the 1st disc! :)
Post by: Octave on June 23, 2013, 06:09:39 PM
Post by: Que on June 23, 2013, 08:55:23 PM
Thanks very much for the Ferrabosco input, Que. Those will be at the top of my to-buy queue.
Just I forget: the 1st disc by the Huelgas Ensemble would be my 1st priority, the 2nd, viol music disc, is in the "nice to have" category. :)
Q
Post by: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 09:53:35 PM
(http://c379899.r99.cf1.rackcdn.com/9780521036085.jpg)
Post by: chasmaniac on July 03, 2013, 09:14:48 AM
Post by: North Star on July 03, 2013, 12:26:56 PM
It's been mentioned before, but the requiem on this disc is stunning.Have you heard Cinquecento's OOVP recording? I only know that one, but it is exquisite.
Post by: Que on August 16, 2013, 10:26:12 PM
| (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/036/MI0001036618.jpg) |  |
Back to this one more time. Though a very enjoyable disc, with perfectly deliverance of the music by Van Nevel and his ensemble, I am not immediately wowed. In the timeframe between the towering geniusses of Lassus and Schütz there seem to be more notables, such as Hans Leo Hassler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Leo_Hassler) and Michael Praetorius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Praetorius). Demantius is obviously a very able but quite conservative composer. It is all pretty low key. Perhaps there is a different side to his art an do I need to hear more? :)
Q
Gramophone review:
Quote
Well-prepared and spontaneous performances of religious music by Demantius, an original voice that is rarely heard.
Christophorus Demantius was born and died in exactly the same years as Monteverdi, but there the similarities stop. A Bohemian craftsman who spent most of his professional life in Freiberg in Saxony, he is revealed in this disc of Whitsun Vespers to be a confident individualist, combining the polyphonic fluency of the great 16th-century masters with the strong harmonic kernel derived from the clear phrasing of the early German Lied.
The Huelgas Ensemble are about as convincing advocates of this sonorous repertoire as one could imagine, supported as they are by Paul van Nevel's luminous textural palette — a palette varied by such pleasing instrumental contributions. His ear for detail and the sense of meticulous preparation is immediately noticeable, though he also lets his singers sail into the intensely worked flourishes of the hymn, Veni Creator, with radiant abandon. Previously, we see Demantius — `an inconsiderate man and a turbulent genius', as one contemporary put it — conduct an impressive journey of church modes, and their variants, in 28 different Psalm verses. It makes for a slightly exhausting voyage, despite the imaginative way the composer traverses the rigid, alternating sections with rich five- and six-part sonority in the best of German traditions.
The solo singing is altogether less memorable than the fragrant coloration (which is central to van Nevel's approach) of the integral ensemble. The vespers, which were published in Nuremberg in 1602, also contain a variable Magnificat and an all-too-short, brilliant Benedicamus Domino a 6, confirming Demantius's natural grasp of decorated homophony. This is music of great dignity and an unassailable momentum. The disc ends with two extended chorale settings from Threnodiae, an extensive litany for the dead, from 1620; a touching melodic intimacy abounds, with correspondingly sensitive instrumental additions.
One feels a bit short-changed by just 47 minutes of music, but only because the Huelgas Ensemble bring a distinctive vitality to their music-making which calls for at least an hour. Demantius was prolific enough!
-- Jonathan Freeman-Attwood, Gramophone [12/2000]
Post by: Drasko on August 18, 2013, 03:23:43 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61jLG0iK5pL.jpg)
Antoine Busnois - Missa L'homme arme
Probably the earliest of the masses based on eponymous chanson, and for me still the best. Superb performance as well. Some might not like the ensemble's attempt at pronouncing Latin closest possible to medieval French manner.
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4456672.jpg)
Antoine Busnois - Missa L'homme arme
I just listened to that too. I have to say that I couldn't stop myself thinjing that this is some of the most interesting music I've ever heard. It was in the credo that I started to think that.
There is a great moment toward the end of Credo when all of a sudden everything gets very frantic. The moment where I went 'wow!' is in Gloria, that amazing upward bass surge on deprecationem nostram. It was totally the moment of ecstatic truth for me (to quote Werner Herzog). The whole piece is extraordinary, the expressiveness of it, almost flamboyance when compared to lets say Dufay, who is stylistically the closest, is what completely took me back in the beginning. I've been listening to it a lot last couple of months.
Post by: Que on August 18, 2013, 03:43:06 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61jLG0iK5pL.jpg)
Antoine Busnois - Missa L'homme arme
Probably the earliest of the masses based on eponymous chanson, and for me still the best. Superb performance as well. Some might not like the ensemble's attempt at pronouncing Latin closest possible to medieval French manner.
I've steered away from British ensembles to avoid a "Englis cathedral style" or bias in the choral singing, which is IMO not suited for the Franco-Flemish School, smooth and in many cases with parts of the music transposed upwards. Despite the abundance of avaible recordings. Perhaps this is not in all cases justified. How does the Binchois Consort in that respect?
Q
Post by: Drasko on August 18, 2013, 03:53:28 AM
I've steered away from British ensembles to avoid a "Englis cathedral style" or bias in the choral singing, which is IMO not suited for the Franco-Flemish School, smooth and in many cases with parts of the music transposed upwards. Despite the abundance of avaible recordings. Perhaps this is not in all cases justified. How does the Binchois Consort in that respect?
Q
Nowhere near cathedral style, it's all male, two per part ensemble. Hear for yourself, here's Gloria (passage I was referring to earlier is at 3:50-4:00)
http://www.youtube.com/v/zntX1k7bCAA
Post by: HIPster on August 18, 2013, 05:56:05 AM
From amazon:
Editorial Reviews
Filia Sion is the first ECM New Series disc devoted entirely to the Estonian vocal group Vox Clamantis. From the beginning of its history, Vox Clamantis has focussed on Gregorian chant as the foundation of European music, but has also maintained strong connections to contemporary composers including Arvo Pärt, Helena Tulve and Erkki-Sven Tüür (members of the ensemble previously appeared on Tüür s Oxymoron album, singing his composition Salve Regina ). Their interpretation of medieval music is never purely historical. While always remaining true to the spirit of this repertoire, the approach to the work and the selection of pieces is contemporary, with sound and texture and the blending of voices as a focus.
As leader Jaan-Eik Tulve explains, Gregorian chant is monophonic music which remarkably emphasizes the blend of voices. Working on sound and colour of voices has been one of the constant priorities of our ensemble. This emphasis is the thread that connects its repertoire through the centuries: I started with Gregorian chant and later moved on to the contemporary music for multiple reasons: firstly, my personal interest in certain contemporary music that draws attention to the sound and is centred on the horizontal musical phrase and melody in its deeper sense. On the other hand, our ensemble has been lucky and several Estonian composers have composed pieces for us, as they have appreciated our approach to the sound, phrase and to the entire musical expression...
On the present album, drawing upon the rich tradition in music history on the theme of Filia Sion , Vox Clamantis sings medieval music from Gregorian chant to works by Perotin, Hildegard von Bingen and Petrus Wilhelmi de Grudencz. In the Old Testament, Filia Sion the Daughter of Zion refers to both the holy city of Jerusalem and the Jewish people who built the Temple on Mount Zion. In medieval Christian tradition, Holy Mary became the incarnation of the Daughter of Zion as the personification of the church.
Jaan-Eik Tulve: The repertoire for the CD emerged naturally from our concert activity. We are specially focussing on the theme of Virgin Mary, who is for me personally a very important figure, who is equally honoured in medieval music. We have had different collaborations with various musicians from a number of traditions. The last piece on the CD Ma Navu derives from a program around Jewish traditional music. Most of our arrangements are born in the rehearsals while improvising. For instance, when a couple of our singers started to explore overtone-singing, we tried to incorporate it into our repertoire and the pedal-notes in Perotin, on this recording, seemed for us an appropriate use.
From the liner notes by Klára Jirsová: The Gospels do not reveal all of Mary s feelings to us; the mystery of the Incarnation is only briefly presented. Relying on a few phrases and returning endlessly to the sacred words and setting them in different contexts, the musical tradition shows their inexhaustible richness. Medieval compositions meditate on the mystery of the Incarnation in all its aspects. They display different shades of joy: explosive, superabundant joy which wells up like a source, as well as the shimmer of peaceful, meditative wonder before the miracle never seen, the joy never known .
Filia Sion was recorded in the Dome Church of St Nicholas, Haapsalu, with Helena Tulve as recording supervisor.
Post by: DaveF on August 20, 2013, 12:50:30 PM
Anyone read this? Care to comment on how accessible it is to someone with little formal training in musical analysis?
(http://c379899.r99.cf1.rackcdn.com/9780521036085.jpg)
There's a fairly generous preview on Google Books. Lots of solid historical information (and speculation) but not much musical analysis at all that I could see - and what there is seems to be related to the historical situation.
DF
Post by: Mandryka on August 21, 2013, 12:51:39 AM
There's a fairly generous preview on Google Books. Lots of solid historical information (and speculation) but not much musical analysis at all that I could see - and what there is seems to be related to the historical situation.
DF
Thanks. All that stuff about mysticism looks quite interesting. I've never been to Reims.
Post by: The new erato on August 21, 2013, 02:34:37 AM
Thanks. All that stuff about mysticism looks quite interesting. I've never been to Reims.As a Champagne nut I've been there twice, but never knew Machaut worked there.
Post by: DaveF on November 18, 2013, 06:23:36 AM
I'd seen a few so-so reviews and so hung back, but needn't have. Belder may not be first choice for Byrd - I think Hogwood or Moroney will remain hard to beat - but it's very civilized and thoughtful playing. For many of the other pieces he's the only option, and none of it disappoints and is often delightful. Looking forward to more volumes.
DF
Post by: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 09:54:19 AM
Belder may not be first choice for Byrd - I think Hogwood or Moroney will remain hard to beat
Glenn Gould did a very good job, too.
(runs away as fast as can)
Quote
- but it's very civilized and thoughtful playing. For many of the other pieces he's the only option, and none of it disappoints and is often delightful.
Nice.
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 21, 2013, 09:58:15 AM
Glenn Gould did a very good job, too.
(runs away as fast as can)
No need to run - Gould's "Consort of Musicke" is one of my favorite keyboard albums.
Post by: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 09:59:33 AM
No need to run - Gould's "Consort of Musicke" is one of my favorite keyboard albums.
8)
Post by: Que on February 09, 2014, 02:27:31 AM
I thought Id dedicate this weekend to Elizabethan music - I think this era has some really beautiful music.
Today it was some William Byrd and tomorrow maybe more or selections from the John Dowland box.
The pictures below represent just about my entire Elizabethan collection (theres not much so I will post them all:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41av%2BC2L5qL.__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71bcZjzJQ0L._SL1200_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NhTFDTDgL._SX450__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511HBbtORVL._SY450_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bscAwY1IL._SX450_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GF9CNS4BL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M9HFdpwbL._SY450__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K%2BXJjv9gL._SX450_.jpg)
Im always looking for recommendations so if anyone knows a recording(s) from this era they think I might like I am all ears :)
Edit: all the stuff I posted may not be strictly Elizabethan but I hope it will give other members an idea of the type of music I mean
I'm not so well advanced into the English Renaissance music to give you an elaborate answer, but I'm sure others will! :)
The set by Davitt Moroney of the complete Byrd keyboardworks (Hyperion) seems a good addition. I also see no Thomas Tallis - though not his whole choral œuvre is essential listening, a fair portion of it is. I derived much pleasure from the set pictured (originally recorded by Signum)
 |  |
Q
Post by: Gordo on February 09, 2014, 05:37:27 PM
I'm not so well advanced into the English Renaissance music to give you an elaborate answer, but I'm sure others will! :)
Q
Me neither, but I'm reckless enough to do it anyway. ;D
I have recommended these two wonderful disks several times; but, apparently, I haven't had any success:
:)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 06:20:45 PM
I just want to join this thread and say hi. I am presently reading John Gardiner's book on Bach, and listening to lots from various early music boxes from Harmonia Mundi, Vivarte, Archiv, and Erato. I've always liked Bach, but am presently enjoying earlier stuff much more, especially polyphonic vocal music and early small group ensemble music by people like Muffat and Biber (just to randomly select a couple of names from the last CD I listened to). It's amazing that virtually every disc I randomly play I end up really liking, and am moved by its thoughtfulness and integrity. Odd that when I sample more recent music my feelings are often almost diametrically opposite...
Post by: Ken B on February 23, 2014, 07:45:33 PM
Very quiet over here :)
I just want to join this thread and say hi. I am presently reading John Gardiner's book on Bach, and listening to lots from various early music boxes from Harmonia Mundi, Vivarte, Archiv, and Erato. I've always liked Bach, but am presently enjoying earlier stuff much more, especially polyphonic vocal music and early small group ensemble music by people like Muffat and Biber (just to randomly select a couple of names from the last CD I listened to). It's amazing that virtually every disc I randomly play I end up really liking, and am moved by its thoughtfulness and integrity. Odd that when I sample more recent music my feelings are often almost diametrically opposite...
We'll get you eventually Baklavaboy. Dufay and Muffat are gateway drugs, but Josquin and Schutz are pure crack.
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 08:10:06 PM
We'll get you eventually Baklavaboy. Dufay and Muffat are gateway drugs, but Josquin and Schutz are pure crack.You're everywhere, Ken :)
Josquin I've played and liked, but Schutz is just a name...
Post by: kishnevi on February 23, 2014, 08:25:30 PM
You're everywhere, Ken :)Allow me to make the formal introduction.
Josquin I've played and liked, but Schutz is just a name...
Herr Schutz, may I introduce Baklavaboy?
Baklavaboy, may I introduce Herr Schutz?
Mind you, at 19 CDs that Brilliant box is far from complete.
Post by: Ken B on February 23, 2014, 08:26:36 PM
You're everywhere, Ken :)I work for the NSA.
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 08:44:47 PM
thank you gentlemen! My shop has a lot of those HM boxes, at very reasonable prices, but I still have about 150 discs to listen to from other recent early music boxes (including some Schutz, actually). Somebody here at GMG forced me into a "cease and desist new purchases" pact. The sadistic s o b....
Post by: kishnevi on February 23, 2014, 08:49:46 PM
;D ;D
thank you gentlemen! My shop has a lot of those HM boxes, at very reasonable prices, but I still have about 150 discs to listen to from other recent early music boxes (including some Schutz, actually). Somebody here at GMG forced me into a "cease and desist new purchases" pact. The sadistic s o b....
It's only for two weeks. You can use the time to plan out a really really big order.
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 09:07:04 PM
It's only for two weeks. You can use the time to plan out a really really big order.
:laugh:
Actually, the postman brought me the EMI Eminence and Erato boxes this morning...and Amazon UK just sent a notice that the new Colin Davis box has shipped, and last night I started burning some of the 7K discs I have on my Hard drive to CD, so I am probably OK for new purchases...except for HM early music boxes ::)
Post by: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 07:37:41 AM
so I am probably OK for new purchases...except for HM early music boxes ::)
Oh but those are the best ones!
>:D >:D :laugh: :laugh: :P >:D
Post by: HIPster on February 24, 2014, 08:17:08 AM
You're everywhere, Ken :)
Josquin I've played and liked, but Schutz is just a name...
This 2 CD set has been in very heavy rotation since I purchased it in late 2013:
There are also earlier editions available, so poke around for the best price. . .
Dig these pretty great reviews, including one by Amazon early music maven 'Giordano Bruno'~
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 24, 2014, 05:19:43 PM
This 2 CD set has been in very heavy rotation since I purchased it in late 2013
There are also earlier editions available, so poke around for the best price. . .
Dig these pretty great reviews, including one by Amazon early music maven 'Giordano Bruno'~
thanks for the heads up! I am on a spending freeze until the middle of next month, but will have an eye out for these. I might poke around on the net and see if I can have a digital copy delivered to my door ;)
Post by: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 07:49:58 PM
This 2 CD set has been in very heavy rotation since I purchased it in late 2013:I second the praise for the set.
There are also earlier editions available, so poke around for the best price. . .
Dig these pretty great reviews, including one by Amazon early music maven 'Giordano Bruno'~
Lots of good stuff in the boxes too. The brilliant box is a little uneven, but it's bigger!
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 24, 2014, 08:06:30 PM
I second the praise for the set.
Lots of good stuff in the boxes too. The brilliant box is a little uneven, but it's bigger!
Some guy over at Amazon named Ken Braithwaite only gave the Brilliant 3 stars, but gave the HM 5. Something about the guys name makes me suspect he might be a little shady >:D, so not sure whether to believe him or not.
I knew I had some Schutze somewhere and finally found I have two discs of the Psalms in the Vivarte box. So far I have been crazy about everything I've played from that box, so have high hopes. Playing Charpentier right now...
Post by: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 08:23:24 PM
Some guy over at Amazon named Ken Braithwaite only gave the Brilliant 3 stars, but gave the HM 5. Something about the guys name makes me suspect he might be a little shady >:D, so not sure whether to believe him or not.I don't know, I find his reviews pretty good. But he always reviews stuff I already have.
I knew I had some Schutze somewhere and finally found I have two discs of the Psalms in the Vivarte box. So far I have been crazy about everything I've played from that box, so have high hopes. Playing Charpentier right now...
:-\
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 24, 2014, 11:11:24 PM
I don't know, I find his reviews pretty good. But he always reviews stuff I already have.:laugh: :laugh:
:-\
I've heard a lot of enthusiasm directed towards Herreweghe. Is he pretty well thought of over here?
I actually have a fair amount of older stuff from Deller. What I've heard sounds good to me, but I have no real standard of reference. Is he generally considered solid, or dated?
Post by: Ken B on February 25, 2014, 08:46:36 AM
:laugh: :laugh:Herreweghe is indeed highly thought of, at least by me and that Braithwaite fellow.
I've heard a lot of enthusiasm directed towards Herreweghe. Is he pretty well thought of over here?
I actually have a fair amount of older stuff from Deller. What I've heard sounds good to me, but I have no real standard of reference. Is he generally considered solid, or dated?
(Alfred) Deller is somewhat dated, and there are now a lot of counter tenors with much better voices. But he was a superb musician, which still comes through, and a great pioneer. In the HM 50 box is a splendid King Arthur by the Deller Consort. I also love hsi folk song recording there but some will find it a tough slog.
Post by: HIPster on February 25, 2014, 02:04:15 PM
I've heard a lot of enthusiasm directed towards Herreweghe. Is he pretty well thought of over here?
Yes, he is highly regarded from my perspective.
This recording is absolutely wonderful:
This one too:
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 25, 2014, 08:37:18 PM
Post by: Moonfish on March 01, 2014, 03:12:39 PM
:laugh:
Actually, the postman brought me the EMI Eminence and Erato boxes this morning...and Amazon UK just sent a notice that the new Colin Davis box has shipped, and last night I started burning some of the 7K discs I have on my Hard drive to CD, so I am probably OK for new purchases...except for HM early music boxes ::)
This sounds like a very familiar scenario.... Last time I went to the post office the staff members looked at me inquisitively and said "Oh, you are the one that is getting all those boxes!! Huh! Are you running a business? *sigh*" . It made me crack up! :laugh:
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 05:49:46 PM
This sounds like a very familiar scenario.... Last time I went to the post office the staff members looked at me inquisitively and said "Oh, you are the one that is getting all those boxes!! Huh! Are you running a business? *sigh*" . It made me crack up! :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh:
It's a glorious time to be a classical music fan!
BTW, I just got to this baby in my Archiv box:
Wow. I haven't heard anything like this before. It doesn't sound like early music or baroque, exactly. It reminds me of Shakespeare's English, constantly fresh and surprising, but not breaking any rules because it comes before the rules have hardened into place...
Post by: Ken B on March 01, 2014, 06:30:52 PM
:laugh: :laugh:
It's a glorious time to be a classical music fan!
BTW, I just got to this baby in my Archiv box:
Wow. I haven't heard anything like this before. It doesn't sound like early music or baroque, exactly. It reminds me of Shakespeare's English, constantly fresh and surprising, but not breaking any rules because it comes before the rules have hardened into place...
Pssssst, fellow EMers, we have a live one.
I think you'll like the Lumieres box. You delve much into the DHM 50 ?
You will eventually want the Music in Versailles box ...
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 06:45:16 PM
I think you'll like the Lumieres box. You delve much into the DHM 50 ?
You will eventually want the Music in Versailles box ...
I got the Lumiere's box last week and like it a lot. Have the DHM 50, 30, Centuries, and sacred. Working on all and sundry, but only so many hours per day.
Never heard of the Versailles box. Will research ASAP :)
Post by: Ken B on March 01, 2014, 06:59:51 PM
I got the Lumiere's box last week and like it a lot. Have the DHM 50, 30, Centuries, and sacred. Working on all and sundry, but only so many hours per day.
Never heard of the Versailles box. Will research ASAP :)
Down boy
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 07:16:47 PM
Down boy
No troubles. I have a Russian friend helping me acquire a loaner copy even as we speak.
Post by: HIPster on March 01, 2014, 07:50:56 PM
BTW, I just got to this baby in my Archiv box:
Wow. I haven't heard anything like this before. It doesn't sound like early music or baroque, exactly. It reminds me of Shakespeare's English, constantly fresh and surprising, but not breaking any rules because it comes before the rules have hardened into place...
Nice! I am a big fan of this one too. 8)
Many forum members seem to be fans as well (but not all ;D). . .
Thread duty:
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 08:02:27 PM
Nice! I am a big fan of this one too. 8)
Many forum members seem to be fans as well (but not all ;D). . .
Thanks again! I don't need a crystal ball to see that one is not going to be to everyone's liking!
And on that note, I can share this ::)
As I type (3/2/2014) this is the number 2 viral video on Youtube. Two guys playing Cellos...
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ViralVideoChart/~3/JxOKBNR1ZMY/youtube (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ViralVideoChart/~3/JxOKBNR1ZMY/youtube)
Post by: San Antone on March 05, 2014, 01:10:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/v2PZFB-27hM
Jordi Savall, et al.
Post by: Que on March 08, 2014, 02:51:53 AM
Alonso Lobo (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alonso_Lobo) was actually close colleague of Victoria. This recording is my first acquintance with his music. I like it very much. If it is true that Victoria valued Lobo as an equal, that is wel deserved. The musical feel is however quite different. Lobo is incoporating more Italian influences and the result is a more, airy, transparent contrapunctual style. I do not quite get the Amazon review (though the reviewer in question knows his Early Music well). The voices DO blend well together, but not into a smooth ethereal sound British choir style. I haven't heard the Tallis in Lobo, but I bet that is what they offer. Music Ficta's sound is intimate, personal and sober. I guess it depends what you are looking for. :)
My only quible is that this disc is with 56 minutes rather short measured...... But definitely recommended if you are into Spanish Renaissance - or rather: not to be missed.
Q
Post by: Moonfish on March 08, 2014, 07:03:05 PM
Thanks for that antidote! :)
Alonso Lobo (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alonso_Lobo) was actually close colleague of Victoria. This recording is my first acquintance with his music. I like it very much. If it is true that Victoria valued Lobo as an equal, that is wel deserved. The musical feel is however quite different. Lobo is incoporating more Italian influences and the result is a more, airy, transparent contrapunctual style. I do not quite get the Amazon review (though the reviewer in question knows his Early Music well). The voices DO blend well together, but not into a smooth ethereal sound British choir style. I haven't heard the Tallis in Lobo, but I bet that is what they offer. Music Ficta's sound is intimate, personal and sober. I guess it depends what you are looking for. :)
My only quible is that this disc is with 56 minutes rather short measured...... But definitely recommended if you are into Spanish Renaissance - or rather: not to be missed.
Q
The samples are beautiful! The Spanish Renaissance has so many neglected gems yet to be discovered. Thanks for recommending it!!! It is genre of music that I keep returning to as the vocal harmonies certainly are mesmerizing.
Post by: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 04:22:38 PM
From amazon:
The critically-acclaimed ensemble Mala Punica came into the limelight in the mid-1990's with a trilogy of illustrious, multi-award-winning discs on Arcana, which revolutionized the world of medieval music and performance practice: Ars subtilis Ytaliaca (A21), D'Amor ragionando (A22) and En attendant (A23). For the first time, all these milestone recordings are united in one set.
Any thoughts? Thanks. :)
Post by: petrarch on April 25, 2014, 03:01:20 AM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
Any thoughts? Thanks. :)
Excellent performances and recording quality. I already had the D'amor ragionando CD, but the chance to get all three of their releases on Arcana was too good to pass.
Post by: Que on April 25, 2014, 07:43:13 AM
The critically-acclaimed ensemble Mala Punica came into the limelight in the mid-1990's with a trilogy of illustrious, multi-award-winning discs on Arcana, which revolutionized the world of medieval music and performance practice: Ars subtilis Ytaliaca (A21), D'Amor ragionando (A22) and En attendant (A23). For the first time, all these milestone recordings are united in one set.
Any thoughts? Thanks. :)
Very happy that you posted this - thanks! :)
Comments on these recordings in the past always have been very favourable - I've put it on the wish list right away…. 8)
Q
Post by: Mandryka on April 25, 2014, 09:10:59 AM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
From amazon:
The critically-acclaimed ensemble Mala Punica came into the limelight in the mid-1990's with a trilogy of illustrious, multi-award-winning discs on Arcana, which revolutionized the world of medieval music and performance practice: Ars subtilis Ytaliaca (A21), D'Amor ragionando (A22) and En attendant (A23). For the first time, all these milestone recordings are united in one set.
Any thoughts? Thanks. :)
These are on spotify and they sound very dramatic and atmospheric, I'm looking forward to getting to know them. Thanks for posting.
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 10:08:56 PM
Any thoughts on this collection of polyphony from Ricercar?
Content:
http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret (http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91l21DR6E%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 10:18:36 PM
Any thoughts on these recordings?
Post by: The new erato on May 07, 2014, 11:15:37 PM
I am also pondering Ciconia's Opera Omnia. Wonderful samples on Spotify. I am mesmerized.......They are state of the art.
Any thoughts on these recordings?
Post by: Mookalafalas on May 08, 2014, 12:12:04 AM
They are state of the art.
I don't really feel you mean it that way, but that sounds more like a thumbs down than thumbs up:
"So, how is this album?"
"Well, the recording quality is very good...." :-\
Post by: The new erato on May 08, 2014, 12:39:48 AM
I don't really feel you mean it that way, but that sounds more like a thumbs down than thumbs up:They are state of the art in every way. They have collected dozens of prices and recommendations too.
"So, how is this album?"
"Well, the recording quality is very good...." :-\
Post by: North Star on May 08, 2014, 02:43:55 AM
I don't really feel you mean it that way, but that sounds more like a thumbs down than thumbs up:Diabolus in Musica is one of the best early music groups out there.
"So, how is this album?"
"Well, the recording quality is very good...." :-\
Post by: petrarch on May 08, 2014, 04:17:34 PM
Diabolus in Musica is one of the best early music groups out there.
+1. That Ciconia box is excellent.
Ricercar and the other Outhere labels (Alpha, Ramée, ZZT, Arcana, Aeon, ...) consistently have excellent releases, with outstanding performers and pristine recording quality.
Post by: petrarch on May 08, 2014, 04:22:09 PM
I could not find any entry for this collection at GMG (but it has to be here somewhere...).
Any thoughts on this collection of polyphony from Ricercar?
Content:
http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret (http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret)
It's a very worthwhile box with plenty of material to dig through (both in music and in text). Recommended if you enjoy or would like to explore the music of the period. I also have (and recommend) the other 4 boxes they have released in a similar format.
Post by: Moonfish on May 08, 2014, 05:48:05 PM
It's a very worthwhile box with plenty of material to dig through (both in music and in text). Recommended if you enjoy or would like to explore the music of the period. I also have (and recommend) the other 4 boxes they have released in a similar format.
Ahhh, I was looking at those. It seems like one is surrounded by musical temptations here at GMG. I presume they won't go OOP in the near future? Do you have the set that examines ancient instruments as well? If so, would you recommend it?
Is the Flemish polyphony set structured as an "educational" anthology, i.e. bits and pieces with unifying themes elucidated by the accompanying book?
Post by: North Star on May 08, 2014, 11:31:55 PM
Ahhh, I was looking at those. It seems like one is surrounded by musical temptations here at GMG. I presume they won't go OOP in the near future? Do you have the set that examines ancient instruments as well? If so, would you recommend it?The first customer review has a complete tracklist for the entire thing. No bits in these sets.
Is the Flemish polyphony set structured as an "educational" anthology, i.e. bits and pieces with unifying themes elucidated by the accompanying book?
Post by: (: premont :) on May 08, 2014, 11:59:06 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
Any thoughts? Thanks. :)
The Ars Subtilior is a distinctive style, which may demand some acclimatization, but which in the end may be very addictive.
When these CDs were released, some reviewers called the realisations a bit too inventive, and maybe a few of the works are made too long, but the sounding result is IMO splendid, and the musicians and singers are first class. I have lived happily with these CDs for almost 15 years.
Post by: (: premont :) on May 09, 2014, 12:08:38 AM
They are state of the art.
It is difficult to talk about "state of the art", when we know so little about the performance practice of these pieces.
But I agree that the CD by Diabolus in Musica is a fine contribution to the relative sparse Ciconia discography. I am more reserved as to the CD by La Morra, i do not think they always find the right pure and intimate mood for these pieces, but I may be biased by other Ciconia recordings, by Studio der Frühe Musik and Paul van Nevel e.g.
Post by: The new erato on May 09, 2014, 12:14:24 AM
It is difficult to talk about "state of the art", when we know so little about the performance practice of these pieces.Studio der Frühe Musik made me discover this music. I was an Andrea von Ramm groupie in a former life.
But I agree that the CD by Diabolus in Musica is a fine contribution to the relative sparse Ciconia discography. I am more reserved as to the CD by La Morra, i do not think they always find the right pure and intimate mood for these pieces, but I may be biased by other Ciconia recordings, by Studio der Frühe Musik and Paul van Nevel e.g.
Post by: petrarch on May 09, 2014, 03:44:08 PM
Do you have the set that examines ancient instruments as well? If so, would you recommend it?
Yes and yes.
Is the Flemish polyphony set structured as an "educational" anthology, i.e. bits and pieces with unifying themes elucidated by the accompanying book?
Yes, within the constraints of what is possible in a small book (the text is repeated in 3 or 4 languages), but it is still a good overview. You can check the track listing and the performers here: http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret (http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret)
Post by: Moonfish on May 28, 2014, 01:57:23 PM
Fantastic! Quite a surprise! A very innovative and creative web of music from the middle ages. Millenarium was much more engaging than I expected. The soundscape is intriguing. So my understanding so far is that these pieces are fragments of music from this time that then are improvised upon? Is that a proper interpretation?
from
Post by: Octave on June 14, 2014, 11:04:38 PM
Any thoughts on this collection of polyphony from Ricercar?
You asked about this over a month ago, so I imagine by now you own it ;)
but I think it's great and I find the packaging quite attractive with thick booklet/book in a kind of chocolate-box slipcase.
One thing about it, if you go bonkers for this music by these groups, you might end up with the full releases (several labels) from which the contents of the box is drawn. I think you have seen the Amazon review which helpfully lists some or all of those original releases. For example, I just got that Pierre de la Rue 3cd set ~40 minutes of which is on the Ricercar anthology.
I have been even more enthralled with the Ciconia.
Have you (or anyone here) listened all of the Millenarium box? Is the whole thing recommended? When you are finished with it, some more comment would be most welcome.
Post by: Moonfish on June 18, 2014, 05:46:57 PM
Re: FLEMISH POLYPHONY box (Ricercar label):
You asked about this over a month ago, so I imagine by now you own it ;)
but I think it's great and I find the packaging quite attractive with thick booklet/book in a kind of chocolate-box slipcase.
One thing about it, if you go bonkers for this music by these groups, you might end up with the full releases (several labels) from which the contents of the box is drawn. I think you have seen the Amazon review which helpfully lists some or all of those original releases. For example, I just got that Pierre de la Rue 3cd set ~40 minutes of which is on the Ricercar anthology.
I have been even more enthralled with the Ciconia.
Have you (or anyone here) listened all of the Millenarium box? Is the whole thing recommended? When you are finished with it, some more comment would be most welcome.
Yep, it is on my shelf right now. I have mixed feelings about the booklet (books). Even though they contain a lot of information it feels redundant to have it in so many different languages. I would rather have more information in one selected language (perhaps complemented by translations online). Regardless, a unique approach to be explored.
In regards to the Millenarium set I am still working myself through it and enjoying it immensely. Millenarium has a rich fresh spectrum of music and creativity that they bring to their recordings. I felt surprised by the immediacy and vivid presence of the music. They remind me a bit of Savall and his numerous recordings with Hesperion XX. So far I view these recordings as gems that I will treasure. Definitely worth digging into as far as I am concerned. :)
Post by: Que on June 27, 2014, 10:53:38 PM
Re: FLEMISH POLYPHONY box (Ricercar label):
You asked about this over a month ago, so I imagine by now you own it ;)
but I think it's great and I find the packaging quite attractive with thick booklet/book in a kind of chocolate-box slipcase.
One thing about it, if you go bonkers for this music by these groups, you might end up with the full releases (several labels) from which the contents of the box is drawn.
Apart from the inconvenient format and hesitations on whether the documentation goes all that deep considering the many translations, it is the hotch-potch nature of the musical content that keeps me back from those - admittedly wonderful looking - "music books" by Ricercar and Hesperion….
Q
Post by: Que on June 27, 2014, 11:11:27 PM
With a-one-voice-per-part (OVPP) approach, this is very expressive and intensely engaging. Lassus is showcasing his Despres lineage via Gombert and the ensemble give us a full picture with all the rhythmic details. Sounded even much better on a 2nd hearing- all the detailing requires a fresh ear! :)
Actually, there is very little to add to Amazon's Giordano Bruno's review:
Quote
Five Choir Boys and a Lovely Lass
No disrespect intended! That's how Singer Pur identifies its members. How this plays out between rehearsals is none of our business. The ensemble is twenty years old this year and extremely successful in Europe, with assorted prizes, performances at all the major festivals, twenty or more CDs on the market, and an ongoing program of workshops in vocal technique in their hometown of Regensburg. They are one of the premiere "a capella" vocal ensembles in the world and one of the few that perform with equal artistry both Renaissance polyphony and more modern genres. HIPPsters, don't be disdainful of this sextet for producing Christmas albums and excursions into Pop and Kitsch! When an ensemble sings the motets of Orlando di Lasso as superbly as Singer Pur on this CD, any "misadventure" may be forgiven.
Singer Pur performs Renaissance polyphony one-voice-per-part. In many cases, the 'superius' is sung by high tenor Klaus Wenk. You'll hear the all-male quintet on several of the nine Lasso motets included on this CD. When the superius is sung by soprano Hedwig Westhof-Düppmann, the balance and match-up of timbres remains PUR gold. Singer Pur never sacrifices the expressiveness of its tenor and bass voices in favor of a bright top-loaded imbalance. Hedwig is certainly lovely, but vocally she's one of the boys.
Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594) was unquestionably the best-known, most influential, and most prolific composer of his era. The earliest "complete" edition of works reached forty volumes. His early career left him time for experimentation in secular genres -- partsongs in Italian, French, German, and Flemish -- but the bulk of his work consists of sacred vocal music in Latin. The "market" for such music was insatiable; even today previously unknown motets by Lasso are found whenever an old castle or cathedral cabinet is pried open. Lasso was the heir of all the great "Franco-Flemish" polyphonists, but especially of Nikolas Gombert (149s-1560). The central opus of this CD, Lasso's Missa Tous Les Regretz, not only recycles material from the Gombert French chanson of the same title but also expands and polishes the innovative harmonic 'language' that distinguished Gombert from his predecessors. Gombert's chanson, by the way, is sung as the last track on this CD. It's a work that still seems harmonically bold even after later works from Gesualdo to Schoenberg to Szysmanowski. This entire performance stirs with thrilling but entirely logical 'dissonances' and chromaticisms. Modern ears are hard to surprise, of course, but this performance will overcome any complacency you might feel about "Early" Music.
Lasso's musical imagination is most obvious in his variety of rhythms and phrases. None of the nine motets on this CD sound boringly like any other. Singer Pur is masterful (and mistressful) in extracting Lasso's rhythmic subtleties and in shaping the emotional rhetoric of his phrases. That's a good part of what distinguishes this performance from performances by lesser ensembles such as Pro Cantione Antiqua or The Tallis Scholars. Let's be blunt: this is as fine a performance of Lasso as any I've ever heard.
Singer Pur also did part 2 of the Lassus series by Musique en Wallonie (http://www.musiwall.ulg.ac.be/spip.php?page=accueil) (sorry, they don not seem to speak any English):
Now, that might be next on my shopping list. :)
Q
Post by: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 04:16:40 AM
Orlando Lassus by the German ensemble Singer Pur. What an amazing performance! :)
With a-one-voice-per-part (OVPP) approach, this is very expressive and intensely engaging. Lassus is showcasing his Despres lineage via Gombert and the ensemble give us a full picture with all the rhythmic details. Sounded even much better on a 2nd hearing- all the detailing requires a fresh ear! :)
So far I haven't been able to really connect with Lassus. Actually with majority of late Renaissance (Spain excepted), too smooth. Maybe ovpp could really work for me. Where did you get the disc? Looks out of print.
Post by: Que on June 28, 2014, 04:45:06 AM
So far I haven't beB006RD8VT6
n able to really connect with Lassus. Actually with majority of late Renaissance (Spain excepted), too smooth. Maybe ovpp could really work for me. Where did you get the disc? Looks out of print.
I think you're right in your assumption and would defintely try OVVP. :)
This disc is still on sale at jpc: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Orlando-di-Lasso-Lassus-1532-1594-Missa-Tous-les-regrets/hnum/3866757
Also note that this disc is under two asin nrs on Amazon: B001S86JAS and the one that is OOP: B006RD8VT6
Q
Post by: HIPster on June 28, 2014, 06:59:36 AM
Orlando Lassus by the German ensemble Singer Pur. What an amazing performance! :)
With a-one-voice-per-part (OVPP) approach, this is very expressive and intensely engaging. Lassus is showcasing his Despres lineage via Gombert and the ensemble give us a full picture with all the rhythmic details. Sounded even much better on a 2nd hearing- all the detailing requires a fresh ear! :)
Actually, there is very little to add to Amazon's Giordano Bruno's review:
Q
Well, I've just ordered this. . . Thanks, Q. Looks incredible!
I'm not sure who is "worse" at helping me to lighten my load financially: Q (here), or 'Giordano Bruno' (amazon). . . Collusion? ::) :laugh: :)
There are many GMGers who have helped my music collection to grow - and my appreciation of the music - over the last year; thank you!
OVPP is/was the ticket for me to get into choral works in general. Have yet to hear OVPP~Lassus, so very much looking forward to the arrival of this release.
Thanks again, Q! ;)
Post by: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 10:38:23 AM
I think you're right in your assumption and would defintely try OVVP. :)
This disc is still on sale at jpc: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Orlando-di-Lasso-Lassus-1532-1594-Missa-Tous-les-regrets/hnum/3866757
Also note that this disc is under two asin nrs on Amazon: B001S86JAS and the one that is OOP: B006RD8VT6
Q
Ah, jpc ... 5 euros for the CD and then the rest of my monthly income for shipping. ::)
I'll check the amazons. Thanks!
And finally a reissue of something I've been waiting for long time. Not technically early music but sounding magnificently primordial to me.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZdjfvkMaL._SL1476_.jpg)
... and taster for those who might be interested:
http://www.youtube.com/v/EXR75n7OH7o
Post by: Que on July 12, 2014, 11:59:39 PM
And finally a reissue of something I've been waiting for long time. Not technically early music but sounding magnificently primordial to me.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZdjfvkMaL._SL1476_.jpg)
Thanks for mentioning it! :) I'lll definitely check it out - despite the fact that (unlike the "Gold" series), presentation and documentation in this particular series is not up to scratch...... :(
Q
Post by: Que on July 13, 2014, 12:45:49 AM
The set focuses on Desprez' contemporaries connected to the Sistine Chapel and includes, besides a selection from Josquin Desprez's oeuvre, premiere recordings of works by Gaspar van Weerbeke, Bertrandus Vequeras and Marbrianus de Orto.
The American ensemble Cut Circle sings two-voice-per-part.A very fine group IMO. Perhaps they fall just a tiny bit short of being in the top league that IMO includes Cinquecento, Stimmwerck and Singer Pur - just to mention a few "newer" ensembles. But they come close and will soon join those IMO.
I will keep it brief, since the review linked below by Johan van Veen will tell much more. One of the main attractions of this set is the inclusion of the music by Mabrianus de Orto. The 2nd disc focuses on the song L'homme arme and puts the masses on this theme by Marbrianus and Desprez next to each other. It is a pity that Jesse Rodin and his group were not bold enough to do a full Marbrianus de Orto set, the Desprez material on the 1st disc are only excerpts and all that material is already availble on other recordings. Not that it is not nice to hear the different composers next to each other, but obviously that effect will wear off with repeated listening.
To summarize: plenty of attractions for the more seasoned Early Music collector in terms of quality of the performance by a new ensemble and unfamiliar repertoire. And the perfect presentation and documentation - a hard cover booklet with the discs front and back - is a joy in itself. Not a first priority for others.
Review from Musicweb, which featured this set a "Recording of the month":
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/May13/DeOrto_Josquin_MEW12651266.htm
Q
Post by: Moonfish on July 13, 2014, 04:42:05 AM
Ah, jpc ... 5 euros for the CD and then the rest of my monthly income for shipping. ::)
I'll check the amazons. Thanks!
And finally a reissue of something I've been waiting for long time. Not technically early music but sounding magnificently primordial to me.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZdjfvkMaL._SL1476_.jpg)
... and taster for those who might be interested:
http://www.youtube.com/v/EXR75n7OH7o
Fantastic! The Corsican chant is definitely unique!
Post by: Drasko on July 14, 2014, 08:10:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/YmO952zqquA
Post by: The new erato on September 09, 2014, 07:26:20 AM
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/o.asp?o=1016&vw=dc (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/o.asp?o=1016&vw=dc)
Unfortunately I already have most of it.
Post by: clavichorder on October 11, 2014, 07:34:37 AM
Post by: Que on October 11, 2014, 11:21:45 PM
Is this thread about Medieval music mostly, or does it also accommodate music into the high renaissance and early baroque?
Medieval and Renaissance, but indeed, there is always the question where Renaissance ended and Baroque began. :) There are inevitablycomposers that are somewhere in betweeen.
Q
Post by: clavichorder on October 12, 2014, 09:19:33 AM
Medieval and Renaissance, but indeed, there is always the question where Renaissance ended and Baroque began. :) There are inevitablycomposers that are somewhere in betweeen.
Q
Cool. I tend to think of my favorite music from the high renaissance as being more related aurally to baroque music, but if this is a thread for it, I will post some of my favorites.
I love this disc of English Renaissance keyboard music:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/010/MI0001010036.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
And this is my preferred performance/recording of Gibbons viol consort music:
(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/BKD486.gif)
And this is a fantastic selection of John Bull keyboard works, performed by Hantai very energetically:
(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/E8838.gif)
And last(for now), the recording I have of Weelkes vocal music:
(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/OBSID-CD708.gif)
Post by: king ubu on October 14, 2014, 03:11:21 AM
Re: Gibbons, clavier musicke, I enjoy this one quite some:
Post by: Brian on October 22, 2014, 05:16:37 PM
(http://images.cdbaby.name/h/a/harmoniousblacksmith1.jpg)
$16,500 raised on Kickstarter led to this recording of Spanish Renaissance and Baroque dances. Composers include Santiago Murcia, Gaspar Sanz, Jacob van Eyck, and Jose Marin, but also huge amounts of improvisation by the ensemble, including a concluding group improv based on an original theme, and a whole new song credited to the percussionist.
Justin Godoy, recorder
Joseph Gasho, harpsichord and organ
William Simms, theorbo and baroque guitar
Andrew Arceci, viola da gamba, bass, and colascione
Glen Velez, percussion
Three tracks in, this is an absolute peach. Total treat. Good job, Kickstarter!!
CD on CDBaby (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/harmoniousblacksmith1)
Post by: DaveF on October 30, 2014, 10:04:24 AM
And this is my preferred performance/recording of Gibbons viol consort music:
(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/BKD486.gif)
Definitely, even though it probably also belongs in the "Worst CD Cover" thread. Wendy Gillespie has every reason to look worried. But those 6-part fantasias... and the second 5-part In Nomine... Couldn't get better than that.
Post by: Mookalafalas on November 04, 2014, 03:36:42 AM
Post by: DaveF on November 25, 2014, 04:12:01 AM
Vol.3 of Pieter-Jan Belder's Fitzwilliam Book is just out from Brilliant which, if it's as good as the first two, will be worth having. Track listings are hard to find and even then (such as on Brilliant's own site) not quite right - the first track on Disc 1 is not the Pavana Pagget but another one (no.85 in the FVB); the third on Disc 2 is correctly listed as the Pagget one. So not the same piece twice. But basically it's mostly Peter Phillips with a bit of Sweelinck.
Post by: Florestan on December 09, 2014, 01:44:03 PM
Post by: Que on December 09, 2014, 03:09:33 PM
I don´t know if it´s been discussed before, but the complete set of Cantigas de Santa Maria by the Musica Antigua ensemble conducted by Eduardo Paniagua is mind-blowing. A must for every Early Music afficionado.
I can't recall that it has been mentioned before.Is this it?
Q
Post by: torut on December 21, 2014, 08:35:32 PM
(http://www.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.cam.ac.uk/files/styles/content-580x288/public/news/news/varellicrop.jpg?itok=XMdBAGNp)
The inscription is believed to date back to the start of the 10th century and is the setting of a short chant dedicated to Boniface, patron Saint of Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/v/F5vqAU_EqG4
Isn't this Organum from Musica enchiriadis (late 9th century) the earliest notation of polyphony?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Musica_enchiriadis_Rex_celi.png/440px-Musica_enchiriadis_Rex_celi.png)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musica_enchiriadis
Post by: torut on December 21, 2014, 08:41:04 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:Thanks everyone who recommended this set. It is extremely beautiful. I will check out other recordings mentioned here.
Post by: Florestan on December 22, 2014, 05:36:20 AM
I can't recall that it has been mentioned before.Is this it?
Q
Sorry for the belated reply, I've been rather busy in other threads. :D
That's only a small part of it. You can find an incomplete discography here: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm (http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm).
For complete discography, with complete previews of each cd, see here: https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas (https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas).
Hope it helps.
Post by: Que on December 22, 2014, 11:54:41 PM
Sorry for the belated reply, I've been rather busy in other threads. :D
That's only a small part of it. You can find an incomplete discography here: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm (http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm).
For complete discography, with complete previews of each cd, see here: https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas (https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas).
Hope it helps.
Thanks! :)
Q
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2014, 05:41:25 AM
Postman brought this today. I got it second hand from Japan for a really good price (although more than the ultra-bargains some of you apparently got). I'm so glad I managed to wrangle a copy (seems to be harder and harder to track down). Anticipating a lot of profound musical enjoyment.
Great pick up. I will have to dust mine off this week. I have not listened to it in some time.
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2014, 09:38:12 AM
http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/catalog/ac%3A179363
Post by: petrarch on December 29, 2014, 12:37:52 PM
Extremely intesting book review about the reception history of medieval music here
http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/catalog/ac%3A179363
Yes, very interesting indeed! Thanks for sharing.
Post by: Artem on February 22, 2015, 02:09:07 PM
Post by: San Antone on February 24, 2015, 11:36:36 AM
Has all my favorites.
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 26, 2015, 03:09:14 AM
Has all my favorites.
I can't agree with this statement, but I do heartily endorse your opinion of the overall worth of the box. Although the quality of each disc is high, I feel there is a sort of homogeneity of performance style that leads me to play this in limited doses. I like to play it before I go to sleep, and upon awaking, but my wife isn't a fan, unfortunately, and those are the times when we listen together :-[ I think I will rip this to my hard-drive, and make a big mixed playlist with this, early harpsichord music, and Jordi Savall stuff. I feel like a chef who has just had a brilliant insight into the ingredients to the perfect dish ;D
Post by: DaveF on February 26, 2015, 01:49:35 PM
I'm assuming this box has been mentioned, but if not - it is a good one. I was reminded of it by a post of a different recording of the Ockeghem Requiem in the New Purchases Thread -
Has all my favorites.
And, oh dear, it can be got for about £15 or $20. Thanks, I think.
Picked up this today in a charity shop for £1:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gregorian-Chants-Magnificat/dp/B000025YAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424986969&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gregorian-Chants-Magnificat/dp/B000025YAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424986969&sr=8-1)
which at first sight looks like one of those ghastly "Gregorian Moods" discs complete with disco beat, but is in fact by the group Magnificat (Edward Wickham et al) and contains over 2 hours of superb chant singing, including the Missa pro defunctis, a Mass ordinary and lots of antiphons.
Post by: Que on February 27, 2015, 12:09:40 AM
I'm assuming this box has been mentioned, but if not - it is a good one. I was reminded of it by a post of a different recording of the Ockeghem Requiem in the New Purchases Thread -
Has all my favorites.
It's great deal. But stylistically outdated IMO. For me personally the British choral style and Franco-Flemish composers simply does not compute... ::)
These days there are plenty of preferable alternatives by other ensembles. :)
Q
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 02:45:41 AM
It's great deal. But stylistically outdated IMO. For me personally the British choral style and Franco-Flemish composers simply does not compute... ::)
These days there are plenty of preferable alternatives by other ensembles. :)
Q
Interesting. I haven't kept up with the newer recordings, but some of the ones recommended here I've been sampling. All very nice. I used to listen to early music much more than in the last decade or more, but I find myself drifting back.
:)
Post by: The new erato on February 27, 2015, 03:56:27 AM
. For me personally the British choral style and Franco-Flemish composers simply does not compute... ::)I totally agree. They sound to cold and clinical (to generalize absurdly).
These days there are plenty of preferable alternatives by other ensembles. :)
Q
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 06:55:01 AM
:-\
Post by: The new erato on February 27, 2015, 08:25:47 AM
I admit compared to most of you I am a dabbler in this repertory. But I have listened to a lot of it over a long stretch of time. I find it a little odd that your opinions of the Hilliard group's recording of Ockeghem is so negative. Apparently the very things I love about their performance, you dislike, e.g. "cold and clinical", which I would describe as clean, restrained and entirely suited to the music.I like it gritty, as in sung by real people, not angels. Which is also an effect of using a smaller number of voices in an more intimate acoustic. A personal preference and view I've come to after listening to this music for 40 years. Which doesn't mean you have to agree. But after hearing this music sung by Singer Pur, Capella Pratensis, The Sound and Fury, Cinquecento etc the traditional English choral style just seems mostly dull to me in this strictly polyphonic music, beautiful, but lacking sentiment. And it also blurs the sense of the polyphonic lines so important in this music.
:-\
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 08:35:07 AM
I like it gritty, as in sung by real people, not angels. Which is also an effect of using a smaller number of voices in an more intimate acoustic. A personal preference and view I've come to after listening to this music for 40 years. Which doesn't mean you have to agree. But after hearing this music sung by Singer Pur, Capella Pratensis, The Sound and Fury, Cinquecento etc the traditional English choral style just seems mostly dull to me in this strictly polyphonic music, beautiful, but lacking sentiment. And it also blurs the sense of the polyphonic lines so important in this music.
Understood. Of the groups you mention, only The Sound and Fury are unknown to me, and do not seem to be on Spotify. Singer Pur is the the most recent new group I've listened to. Can't say I'm overwhelmed yet. But, I prefer all male groups. I also have an ongoing interest in the Hilliard Ensemble because of their performance outside of the Early Music repertory.
Thanks for your comments, I do consider myself while not an outright novice regarding music from these periods, at least not anywhere near as expert as you and Que, and others who contribute to this topic.
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 08:41:15 AM
I like it gritty, as in sung by real people, not angels. Which is also an effect of using a smaller number of voices in an more intimate acoustic. A personal preference and view I've come to after listening to this music for 40 years. Which doesn't mean you have to agree. But after hearing this music sung by Singer Pur, Capella Pratensis, The Sound and Fury, Cinquecento etc the traditional English choral style just seems mostly dull to me in this strictly polyphonic music, beautiful, but lacking sentiment. And it also blurs the sense of the polyphonic lines so important in this music.Agreed, but I'm not sure 'gritty' is the right word. The sound of one voice per part ensembles (or the odd great ones with two voices) is more direct of course, with the ensemble being more together and not making every dynamic change gradual.
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 08:47:38 AM
;D
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 08:55:06 AM
Actually, I guess The Sound an Fury are on Spotify, but from the CD covers I thought they were different band with the same name; a punk rock band.:laugh:
;D
Yeah, those covers are really something.
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 09:19:29 AM
Agreed, but I'm not sure 'gritty' is the right word. The sound of one voice per part ensembles (or the odd great ones with two voices) is more direct of course, with the ensemble being more together and not making every dynamic change gradual.
If I am not mistaken, The Hilliard do utilize OVPP for most of their early recordings, and I am pretty sure their recording of the Ockeghem Requiem is OVPP. The recording was made in a church, and quite reverberant, this can undermine the clarify of each voice, but does enhance the ensemble blend.
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 09:36:52 AM
If I am not mistaken, The Hilliard do utilize OVPP for most of their early recordings, and I am pretty sure their recording of the Ockeghem Requiem is OVPP. The recording was made in a church, and quite reverberant, this can undermine the clarify of each voice, but does enhance the ensemble blend.'Ensemble blend' - apart from timing - isn't necessarily a good thing though, if it means that the individual lines can't be followed. In any case, I wasn't commenting on the Hilliard recording, and instead took what Erato said on a more general level.
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 09:42:09 AM
To the extent an ensemble wishes to make the music "gritty", it probably will not appeal to me.
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 10:06:50 AM
I suppose it comes down to what we are looking for in the performance of this music. For me, I prefer a meditative and ephemeral sound that serves to quiet the mind - I am seeking the music to be an inducement to the spiritual, which is how I understand the music to have been written.I'm sure that's a part of why I listen to early music as well.
Quote
To the extent an ensemble wishes to make the music "gritty", it probably will not appeal to me.'Gritty' is not something I look for either.
Post by: Que on February 28, 2015, 01:30:28 AM
I suppose it comes down to what we are looking for in the performance of this music. For me, I prefer a meditative and ephemeral sound that serves to quiet the mind - I am seeking the music to be an inducement to the spiritual, which is how I understand the music to have been written.
To the extent an ensemble wishes to make the music "gritty", it probably will not appeal to me.
I would say earthy or more human than angelic. There is more to the issue about some of British ensembles than just OVPP. It is about the choral/ ensemble sound, particularly the male voices - both low and high, it is about phrasing, diction. Music is usually transposed upwards to accomadate the taste for a higher , more "angelic" sound of choirs with larger propotions of female voices and male altos. (Just listen to the grumbling basses in the Huelgas ensemble in comparison) It is simply not always idiomatic or authentic....
Please don't mind me and enjoy nonetheless, I am simply pointing out that there is more out there and it might be of interest to you. :)
Ockeghem by the French Ensemble Musica Nova or Ensemble Organum, or De la Rue by the Flemish ensemble Capilla Flamenca can be a very satisfying experience.
Q
Post by: San Antone on February 28, 2015, 05:08:24 PM
I would say earthy or more human than angelic. There is more to the issue about some of British ensembles than just OVPP. It is about the choral/ ensemble sound, particularly the male voices - both low and high, it is about phrasing, diction. Music is usually transposed upwards to accomadate the taste for a higher , more "angelic" sound of choirs with larger propotions of female voices and male altos. (Just listen to the grumbling basses in the Huelgas ensemble in comparison) It is simply not always idiomatic or authentic....
Please don't mind me and enjoy nonetheless, I am simply pointing out that there is more out there and it might be of interest to you. :)
Ockeghem by the French Ensemble Musica Nova or Ensemble Organum, or De la Rue by the Flemish ensemble Capilla Flamenca can be a very satisfying experience.
Q
I only have heard Dufay by Ensemble Musica Nova (like it a lot), but I heard a fairly significant mount from Ensemble Organum, which I also enjoy. I have heard Capilla Flamenca on this compilation set:
I was not trying to argue for the Hilliard Ensemble as much as trying to gain an insight as to your and other's reasons for being negative.
Thanks for your post.
Post by: Que on March 01, 2015, 12:41:40 AM
I was not trying to argue for the Hilliard Ensemble as much as trying to gain an insight as to your and other's reasons for being negative.
Thanks for your post.
You are welcome. :)
The British deserve a lot of credit for being pioneers in the Early Music scene and had a great tradition to build on. But practices and perceptions have shifted since those days. Some ensembles have adapted their ways when performing certain repertoire, singing in smaller forces, using more authenic diction and refrain from transposing the music upwards. But its seems to be complicated to deciphere what is what. Keep an eye on the reviews by Giordano Bruno on Amazon, he is well informed. :)
Q
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2015, 01:18:04 AM
Post by: San Antone on March 01, 2015, 12:56:08 PM
Post by: San Antone on March 03, 2015, 11:17:07 AM
Doulce Memoire
Post by: aligreto on March 03, 2015, 02:57:33 PM
Post by: Que on March 03, 2015, 04:00:18 PM
I like this a lot - curious about other views
I do not have that Ciconia disc, but I love that ensemble on the basis of this special disc by them (appropriately containing (Italian) Ars Nova):
Q
Post by: Que on March 03, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
De Fevin : Requiem d'Anne De Bretagne
Doulce Memoire
I am jealous! ??? :) That has on my shopping list forever.... ::)
Just in case you don't already have, it a recommendation of a set with two of their other reocrdings:
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 03, 2015, 04:52:04 PM
Thanks for the other recommendations; both recordings are on Spotify, as well as this one of Landini:
:)
Post by: HIPster on March 03, 2015, 05:38:56 PM
Been getting a lot of plays here as of late~
Post by: San Antone on March 03, 2015, 07:01:09 PM
I am relatively new to this board and I am delighted to have discovered this thread. I like Early Music but I really do not know a lot about it relative to other eras. I therefore look forward to spending some time reading this thread in order to enlighten myself and further educate myself in the beauties of this sound world.
There are members who contribute to this thread who are more knowledgeable than I, but the most representative and reasonably priced introduction to early music I can think of is this box from Naxos:
While it mainly has movements from larger works it will expose you to a large selection composers and ensembles so that through it you can find ones you may wish to study in more depth. Generally good performances.
Post by: Que on March 03, 2015, 10:38:31 PM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)
Q
Post by: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 12:07:34 AM
I am jealous! ??? :) That has on my shopping list forever.... ::)
Just in case you don't already have, it a recommendation of a set with two of their other reocrdings:
Q
That looks really interesting Q! Thanks for posting it!! [the one click purchase button is an evil invention!]
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 03:42:41 AM
I wish the Huelgas Ensemble's Labyrinth box set was still available, that would have been my primary recommendation... ::)
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)
Q
You're right; I have this but don't think of it; for some reason thinking their recordings only as the individuals. I did not know it was hard to find.
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 06:32:05 AM
Music from Andalusian Spain sung in Arabic. (http://www.welove-music.org/2012/11/ensemble-akrami-al-hadiqat-al-adaia.html) (posted for the description not the download, which won't work anyway)
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 07:57:24 AM
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 08:17:03 AM
Post by: North Star on March 04, 2015, 08:35:54 AM
Guillaume De Machaut : Sacred & Secular Music, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois - excellent boxset very reasonably priced.I'll second that recommendation.
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 09:08:12 AM
There are members who contribute to this thread who are more knowledgeable than I, but the most representative and reasonably priced introduction to early music I can think of is this box from Naxos:
While it mainly has movements from larger works it will expose you to a large selection composers and ensembles so that through it you can find ones you may wish to study in more depth. Generally good performances.
Thank you for your help and recommendation; I will investigate that box set on the Naxos website.
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 09:13:23 AM
I wish the Huelgas Ensemble's Labyrinth box set was still available, that would have been my primary recommendation... ::)
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)
Q
I have just checked this one out on Amazon UK and it is availabel new; the price ranges from £279.99 to £349.99 :o
Some of you guys are sitting on a nice one there ;)
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 09:17:39 AM
Guillaume De Machaut : Sacred & Secular Music, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois - excellent boxset very reasonably priced.
That one looks interesting.
Post by: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 09:20:07 AM
That one looks interesting.
+1
It is excellent! :)
Post by: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 09:51:15 AM
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 12:31:36 PM
When L'oiseau Lyre/Decca released their Baroque compilation last year I remember reading that they were planning to make two additional sets: one focused on Early Music and one on the Renaissance. Does anybody know anything about the progress of these projects?
I would love to find it but I can't. However, I forgot about this one, which I bought a long time ago (must have been in the '70s) and still enjoy:
The Art of Courtly Love
David Munrow | The Early Music Consort of London
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 12:40:00 PM
The Art of Courtly Love
David Munrow | The Early Music Consort of London
I had great admiration for Munrow and have a few of his recordings; I may have that one on vinyl but not too sure.
Post by: aligreto on March 05, 2015, 01:09:51 PM
(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/5f34d6079be90f8c757aa1edd5b5ab21/4035691.jpg)
Post by: San Antone on March 08, 2015, 06:43:23 AM
Excellent recording.
Giaches de Wert (also Jacques/Jaches de Wert, Giaches de Vuert; 1535 – 6 May 1596) was a Franco-Flemish composer of the late Renaissance, active in Italy. Intimately connected with the progressive musical center of Ferrara, he was one of the leaders in developing the style of the late Renaissance madrigal. He was one of the most influential of late sixteenth-century madrigal composers, particularly on Claudio Monteverdi, and his later music was formative on the development of music of the early Baroque era.
Post by: San Antone on March 09, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
Seems to be a very good survey of this period.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HzeTpYiuL._SS280.jpg)
Post by: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 02:50:12 PM
Masters from Flanders: Polyphony from the 15th & 16th century a ten volume series featuring Capella Sancti Michaelis and Currende Consort (Erik van Nevel). It appears to be available only in digital formatting, and on most streaming services (I found all ten volumes on Spotify).
Seems to be a very good survey of this period.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HzeTpYiuL._SS280.jpg)
It seems like used copies exist in the MP.
Contents:
CD I: Adriaan Willaert and Italy
Cypriano De Rore
Giaches De Wert
Giovanni De Macque
CD 2: Philippe Rogier And Spain
Georges De La Hèle
Gerard Van Turnhout
Pierre De Manchicourt
Mateo Romero
CD 3: Orlandus Lassus
Ivo De Vento
Johannes De Fossa
Balduin Hoyoul
CD 4: 16th Century Songs and Dances from Flanders
Tielman Susato
Anonymous
Jheronimus Venders
Pierre de la Rue
Clemens Non Papa
Pierre Phalèse
Nicolas Liégois
Heinrich Isaac
Cornelis Boscoop
Ludovicus Episcopius
CD 5: Philippus De Monte and the Habsburgers
Jacobus Vaet
Alexander Utendal
Jacob Regnart
Arnold Von Bruck
Carolus Luython
Lambert De Sayve
CD 6: Nicolaas Gombert and the Court of Charles V
Clemens Non Papa
Thomas Crequillon
CD 7: Isaac, Obrecht, de la Rue
CD 8: Josquin des Prez
CD 9: Johannes Ockeghem and France
Loyset Compère
Antonius Divitis
Johannes Prioris
Antoine De Févin
CD 10: Guillaume Dufay and Burgundy
Antoine Busnois
Gilles Binchois
Alexander Agricola
Post by: HIPster on March 09, 2015, 04:52:18 PM
Masters from Flanders: Polyphony from the 15th & 16th century a ten volume series featuring Capella Sancti Michaelis and Currende Consort (Erik van Nevel). It appears to be available only in digital formatting, and on most streaming services (I found all ten volumes on Spotify).Looks amazing. Thanks for posting it sanantonio. Shout-out to Moonfish too, for listing the contents. ;)
Seems to be a very good survey of this period.
I'm now playing a new purchase:
Vox Cosmica
Hirundo Maris
Stunningly beautiful recording of music composed by Hildegard of Bingen. The group also performs several instrumental 'meditations' inspired by Hildegard's spiritual visions. Powerful music! A riveting performance - sounds like a true musical offering.
I'd say urgently recommended for those with an interest in the music of Hildegard. :)
Post by: San Antone on March 09, 2015, 05:25:43 PM
I'm now playing a new purchase:
Vox Cosmica
Hirundo Maris
Stunningly beautiful recording of music composed by Hildegard of Bingen. The group also performs several instrumental 'meditations' inspired by Hildegard's spiritual visions. Powerful music! A riveting performance - sounds like a true musical offering.
I'd say urgently recommended for those with an interest in the music of Hildegard. :)
Looks really interesting.
Post by: San Antone on March 09, 2015, 05:56:04 PM
Dowland - The Collected Works
The Consort of Musicke, Rooley
Post by: The new erato on March 09, 2015, 10:14:18 PM
Phenomenal box setwhich will probably be included in a coming Renaissance box set from L'Oiseau-Lyre.....
Dowland - The Collected Works
The Consort of Musicke, Rooley
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 06:33:40 AM
which will probably be included in a coming Renaissance box set from L'Oiseau-Lyre.....
Which is a set of interest to me. Any idea when it will be available?
I've found the Kassiopeia Quintet's complete Gesualdo madrigals recordings on Spotify:
Anyone else familiar with them?
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 11:30:12 AM
... compare with this one by Cinquecento?
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 11:59:53 AM
I like this a lot - curious about other views
Yes I think it's tremendous. I started a thread on amazon about Ars Subtilior which you might find interesting, I tried here but there were no contributions
http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_search_res_ti?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx3HCWWJYD19UN2#Mx17QK1DW0H29TO
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 12:13:54 PM
Yes I think it's tremendous. I started a thread on amazon about Ars Subtilior which you might find interesting, I tried here but there were no contributions
http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_search_res_ti?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx3HCWWJYD19UN2#Mx17QK1DW0H29TO
Interesting thread, thanks for linking it. I found several of the suggested recordings on Spotify. BTW, is your avatar Oswald van Wolkenstein?
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 12:30:13 PM
Interesting thread, thanks for linking it. I found several of the suggested recordings on Spotify. BTW, is your avatar Oswald van Wolkenstein?
Yes. The big one which isn't on spotify is 'Saracen & the Dove' It's growing on me, you should try to hear it I think. Same for Tetraktis.
Yes I am Oswald van Wolkenstein. I like his wink more than his music.
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
Yes. The big one which isn't on spotify is 'Saracen & the Dove' It's growing on me, you should try to hear it I think. Same for Tetraktis.
Yes I am Oswald van Wolkenstein. I like his wink more than his music.
Saracen & the Dove is on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/0PwdTl838sZmGZg2LjLkBJ).
I agree regarding Oswald.
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 10, 2015, 02:03:43 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/Andrea_Mantegna_-_The_Dead_Christ.jpg)
Andrea Mantegna - one of my favorite artists from the period - The Lamentation over the Dead Christ (tempera on canvas) done in 1490 - such realism & perspective; located at the Pinacoteca di Brera, Milan (Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Mantegna)) - wife and I were on a trip to northern Italy in April 1996, mainly Milan & Bologna - saw the painting then. Dave :)
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 03:34:45 PM
I am struck at how contemporary it sounds; almost jazz like in places. This is incredibly vibrant music and music-making.
Very highly recommended!
Post by: Drasko on March 10, 2015, 04:58:15 PM
I've found the Kassiopeia Quintet's complete Gesualdo madrigals recordings on Spotify:
Anyone else familiar with them?
I remember asking the same question few years ago, and someone replying that they are ok but bland compared to Concerto Italiano and La Venexiana.
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 10:39:54 PM
Saracen & the Dove is on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/0PwdTl838sZmGZg2LjLkBJ).
I agree regarding Oswald.
I listened to Saracen and Dove again. It's some of the strangest, most difficult, music I know. The Orlando Consort remind me of Ensemble Organum in their Chantilly Codex CD, in that they underplay the sensuality, and highlight the avant garde aspect.
Post by: Que on March 10, 2015, 10:56:17 PM
I remember asking the same question few years ago, and someone replying that they are ok but bland compared to Concerto Italiano and La Venexiana.
We indeed discussed this before, the performances seem to have had very little exposure.
I'll try to look it up. It's a Dutch ensemble BTW.
Q
Post by: Que on March 10, 2015, 11:07:18 PM
How does this Huelgas recording ...
... compare with this one by Cinquecento?
Most of us seem to have one or the other, and both parties seem to be very happy... 8) Though I believe the few that have both prefer the Cinquecento. I touched on the topic briefly before, mentioning some reviews:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg738941/topicseen.html#msg738941
It seems these are both excellent yet distinctly different performances? :)
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 01:42:13 AM
Most of us seem to have one or the other, and both parties seem to be very happy... 8) Though I believe the few that have both prefer the Cinquecento. I touched on the topic briefly before, mentioning some reviews:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg738941/topicseen.html#msg738941
It seems these are both excellent yet distinctly different performances? :)
Q
Thanks. The Huelgas is on Spotify, nothing by Cinquecento is, so I am probably going to purchase that or another of their recordings just to hear them. I like what I've read.
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 01:54:08 AM
I listened to Saracen and Dove again. It's some of the strangest, most difficult, music I know. The Orlando Consort remind me of Ensemble Organum in their Chantilly Codex CD, in that they underplay the sensuality, and highlight the avant garde aspect.
I went back to Reese and read about the trecento (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Trecento), or Italian Ars Nova, a somewhat related style, e.g. Ciconia is included in the discussion. There are several recordings of interest on Spotify featuring the composers from Italy from 1325-1425, which is how Reese dates this period. The music primarily comes from the Squarcialupi Codex and Rossi Codex.
Stylems, Music from the Italian Trecento (https://play.spotify.com/album/6MBieZ3u5sK2f2cXEEsE5O) (Spotify link)
Post by: Mandryka on March 11, 2015, 08:20:47 AM
I went back to Reese and read about the trecento (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Trecento), or Italian Ars Nova, a somewhat related style, e.g. Ciconia is included in the discussion. There are several recordings of interest on Spotify featuring the composers from Italy from 1325-1425, which is how Reese dates this period. The music primarily comes from the Squarcialupi Codex and Rossi Codex.
Stylems, Music from the Italian Trecento (https://play.spotify.com/album/6MBieZ3u5sK2f2cXEEsE5O) (Spotify link)
I'm convinced that appreciating Ars Subtilior can demmand a new order of listening skills, and this is why Orlando Consort and others can be so disorienting. Others force the music into a more conventional pattern of harmony, rhythm, voicing, tones, etc. I do feel that the austere approach is rewarding, but requires more effort than the relaxing, easy listening style of ensembles like Tetrakis, or Hesperion 20. IMO the Codex Chantilly is Brian Ferneyhough avant la lettre.
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 08:41:51 AM
I'm convinced that appreciating Ars Subtilior can demmand a new order of listening skills, and this is why Orlando Consort and others can be so disorienting. Others force the music into a more conventional pattern of harmony, rhythm, voicing, tones, etc. I do feel that the austere approach is rewarding, but requires more effort than the relaxing, easy listening style of ensembles like Tetrakis, or Hesperion 20. IMO the Codex Chantilly is Brian Ferneyhough avant la lettre.
Richard Taruskin has a lengthier section regarding this style in his book on this period and points out that the term "Ars Subtilior" is of rather recent vintage, ~ 1960s. The main stylistic trait appears to have been rhythmic (even polymetric) experimentation by composers such as Philippus de Caserta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippus_de_Caserta).
Two collections (that may not be new to you) which contain some of this music are
Or on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/5beNxR4ovxBZVYUO9mBE8N)
Or on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/5ry8MCJbxL4mEP0UA7kLVy)
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 10:25:39 AM
SPOTIFY (https://play.spotify.com/track/4rnMebI7C4Fav6cep66ASS)
Some info posted by an Amazon reviewer: "Tracks 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11 & 15 are by anonymous composers, all either in Occitan (Old Provencal) or Old French. Track 3 is by Aubertin d'Airaines. Tracks 4 & 9 by Thibaut De Champagne. 12 by Jaque de Cambrai. 13 by Adam de la Halle. 14 by Guillaume de Bethune."
Post by: (: premont :) on March 11, 2015, 10:33:48 AM
Yes I think it's tremendous. I started a thread on amazon about Ars Subtilior which you might find interesting, I tried here but there were no contributions
I began listening to the Ars Subtilior CDs I own, but then you led my interests in other directions. At the moment I listen to Frescobaldi Canzoni, trying to produce some sensible recommendations.
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 04:47:36 PM
Masses by Byrd, Plummer and Tallis with movements by living composers interpolated.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71-p5aqkTVL._SL500_.jpg)
"You may not think the world yearns for another Byrd 4-part Mass recording - that is, until you hear these four male voices sing it. Sure, you've heard the Tallis Scholars' reference version, but have you ever heard it performed by just four voices, ideally matched, of uniquely compatible timbre, combined into such a richly resonant sound? ... The sound on this SACD recording, from a Swedish church, is consistent with BIS's usual high standard. Recommended with the assurance that you will listen to this disc often.: --ClassicsToday.com, David Vernier, September 2013
Post by: San Antone on March 12, 2015, 10:50:08 AM
Instead the earlier 4-part Requiem written in 1593 is included.
Here's a recording done by a group specializing in Spanish Renaissance, Musica Ficta (not to be confused with other ensembles using the same name), led by Raúl Mallavibarrena:
Post by: Que on March 12, 2015, 11:00:49 AM
Here's a recording done by a group specializing in Spanish Renaissance, Musica Ficta (not to be confused with other ensembles using the same name), led by Raúl Mallavibarrena:
I happened to have ordered that a while ago and just found it in my letter box! :)
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 12, 2015, 11:05:16 AM
I happened to have ordered that a while ago and just found it in my letter box! :)
Q
I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I am listening on Spotify. Aside from the reverberant acoustic, I am enjoying it. Although it would not be how Victoria would have done it, I would love to hear a OVPP version.
Post by: aligreto on March 15, 2015, 03:14:16 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JKb0nSl7L.jpg)
Post by: San Antone on March 16, 2015, 07:27:15 AM
Trefoil is a trio long active in early music, with experience in such ensembles as Concert Royal, Les Arts Florissants, New York's Ensemble for Early Music, Pomerium, Clarion Music society, Piffaro, My Lord Chamberlain's Consort, and other groups. The trio debuted in New York and Philadelphia early in 2000 with a program of 14th-century French ars subtilior song. The Philadelphia Inquirer tagged the performers as "a hearty trio of medieval music specialists" and their work as "an intricate, enigmatic vocal art."
Their latest CD, Fleur de Valeur: A Medieval Bouquet, features music by Guillaume Dufay, Gilles Binchois, and others. "Medieval songwriters invoked the imagery and natural magic of flowers in the service of ideal, feminine beauty. In many poems, the most revered flower was the Rose, or fleur de valeur. As a symbol of Mary the Virgin this flower stood for virtue, but also for the more sensual desires of the flesh, where it became an object of masculine desire." (from concert notes)
Anyone else familiar with them?
Post by: San Antone on March 16, 2015, 12:05:46 PM
Le Codex de Saint Emmeram
Stimmwerck
Some info provided by Giordano Bruno from his review on Amazon:
It's the vocal artistry of Stimmwerck, however, that deserves the highest praise. Stimmwerck consists of four young Germans -- countertenor Franz Vitzthum, tenors Klaus Wenk and Gerhard Hölzle, and bass Marcus Schmidt, plus guests on some compositions -- all devoted to the performance of the repertoire of Middle Europe in the medieval and early renaissance period. Their goal is extreme authenticity and their musicological scholarship is impressive, but it's their magnificent SINGING that matters most. This is music that must be sung one-on-a-part to be heard at its most expressive. The strictures of tuning such music to the Pythagorian and later 'mean tone' intervals of the period must be mastered. The rhetorical freedom of Dufay's and Dunstable's polyphony, with each vocal line emerging independently, must be understood. Stimmwerck is not just a first-rate vocal ensemble; it's specifically a first-rate 15th C vocal ensemble, as authentic as our current historical knowledge can render. Founded in 2001, Stimmwerck has released five or six CDs, including a very fine performance of the music of Ludwig Senfl. Some of those CDs have already become rare; my advice is to grab them while you can. The market for such music is fragile. Nevertheless, several extraordinary ensembles have matured in recent years: Cinquecento, Camerata Trajectina, Capilla Flamenca, The Sound and the Fury, to name some of the best, most of them German or Dutch. The good news is that the 'venerated' Orlando Consort is no longer all alone in the field.
Post by: Que on March 16, 2015, 12:18:04 PM
New ensemble for me, but a good one. Listening now.
Le Codex de Saint Emmeram
Stimmwerck
Great ensemble, great disc! :)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg820674/topicseen.html#msg820674
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg568496/topicseen.html#msg568496
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg579916/topicseen.html#msg579916
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 16, 2015, 12:31:18 PM
Great ensemble, great disc! :)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg820674/topicseen.html#msg820674
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg568496/topicseen.html#msg568496
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg579916/topicseen.html#msg579916
Q
Thanks for the info on other recordings, and for the link to their website. I knew I was on to something but also figured that it was old news for this thread.
:)
Post by: San Antone on March 17, 2015, 06:50:00 AM
(http://www.ifagiolini.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/chan-0749-sm.jpg)
Quote
At regular intervals (30:6; 32:1), Robert Hollingworth offers a well-filled disc programming a selection of Monteverdi's madrigals. His intellectual approach is rewarding beyond the usual presentation of complete published books, for he finds relations between the pieces that can only be brought out by astute selection. No one has ever linked the two settings of Zefiro torna on record, the one a Petrarch poem that Monteverdi included in Book 5, the other poem Rinuccini's homage to his renowned predecessor that was published in Monteverdi's setting in 1632. Except for this juxtaposition, these madrigals from Books 5 to 8 are sung in chronological order, but only after Hollingworth decided that this made better sense than his original conception. This places at the end a half-hour work that was published in 1638, although it was first performed (at the Gonzaga/Savoy wedding) 20 years earlier. Here Hollingworth chooses to edit the published version of Ballo delle ingrate to match the unrevised text that Rinuccini originally published (its references to the Mantua wedding were obliterated for a publication dedicated to the emperor). Hollingworth also points out that most performances of some of these madrigals fill in the continuo with harmonies matching the vocal lines. Hollingworth compares this to a woman in a print dress standing in a flower garden. Instead, he employs a chordal harmony that howls against the dissonant upper voices. This gives his interpretations a unique appeal, a worthy alternative to other versions.
Clearly, Hollingworth's programs are complementary to any collection of recorded complete books, whether the various ensembles that have recorded them are mixed or matched. His usual ensemble is augmented by a Norwegian string quintet. To be sure, this is an English approach to Monteverdi, in contrast to a group such as La Venexiana, but we have been making this comparison for many years now (recall the Consort of Musicke), and we can hear complementary qualities. Hollingworth brings a unique perspective to Monteverdi. -- Fanfare, J. F. Weber, Nov/Dec 2009
Listening now; haven't an opinion yet.
Post by: San Antone on March 17, 2015, 03:45:26 PM
There's at least one more I intend to purchase soon:
When I returned to Early Music, after not listening intently for over a decade or more, I naturally went back to the groups I had known from the past, Hilliard, Tallis, and others. But now that I have been exposed to some of the groups like Sound/Fury, Blue Heron, Cinquecento, Stimmwerck, A Sei Voci, Orlando Consort (I feel like I'm forgetting some), I am now totally convinced of the superiority of their approach.
It has been a fascinating (short) journey so far and one I will continue with excitement.
:)
Post by: Moonfish on March 17, 2015, 10:07:24 PM
I am now considering their recording of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum (http://www.amazon.com/Ockeghem-Prolationum-Ensemble-Musica-Nova/dp/B0093N4DXU)
Post by: EigenUser on March 18, 2015, 12:17:21 AM
I am now considering their recording of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum (http://www.amazon.com/Ockeghem-Prolationum-Ensemble-Musica-Nova/dp/B0093N4DXU)Their recording of the Ockeghem is my favorite version. I've heard a few others, but none as good as that.
Post by: North Star on March 18, 2015, 12:20:48 AM
Their recording of the Ockeghem is my favorite version. I've heard a few others, but none as good as that.Not that there is much competition from the current generation ensembles.
Post by: Que on March 18, 2015, 02:17:42 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed de Mauchaut's Ballades this evening in the able hands(/voices) of Ensemble Musica Nova. These performances are serene in every aspect combining instruments and voices into mesmerizing patterns that permeate the mind. Great stuff! Giordano Bruno (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1E9AHC4390WDW/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002P9KAE0&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=5174&store=music) seemingly liked it quite a bit.. ;)
I am now considering their recording of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum (http://www.amazon.com/Ockeghem-Prolationum-Ensemble-Musica-Nova/dp/B0093N4DXU)
Ensemble Musica Nova is definitely on my shortlist as well. :)
Another great Machaut issue is their recording of the Motets:
Mind that this is a reissue of the same recordings issued on Zig Zag:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61CsxeRA67L.jpg)
Q
Post by: Moonfish on March 18, 2015, 03:18:19 PM
Their recording of the Ockeghem is my favorite version. I've heard a few others, but none as good as that.
Tempting..... ;)
Post by: San Antone on March 18, 2015, 04:02:35 PM
But their recorded catalog also contains some dreadful crossover recordings. Seems odd. Nevertheless, this one is very good.
Post by: Que on March 18, 2015, 10:13:24 PM
When I returned to Early Music, after not listening intently for over a decade or more, I naturally went back to the groups I had known from the past, Hilliard, Tallis, and others. But now that I have been exposed to some of the groups like Sound/Fury, Blue Heron, Cinquecento, Stimmwerck, A Sei Voci, Orlando Consort (I feel like I'm forgetting some), I am now totally convinced of the superiority of their approach.
It has been a fascinating (short) journey so far and one I will continue with excitement.
:)
Great! :)
I would like to add to that shortlist in any case (there are some more): Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon), Diabolus in Musica (Alpha), Singer Pur (Oehms), Dufay Ensemble (Freiburg) (Ars Musici), Orlando di Lasso Ensemble (Hannover) (Thorofon), Labyrintho (Stradivarius), Ludus Modalis (Ramée), Concerto Vocale Amsterdam (Glossa, CPO)
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 19, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
Great! :)
I would like to add to that shortlist in any case (there are some more): Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon), Diabolus in Musica (Alpha), Singer Pur (Oehms), Dufay Ensemble (Freiburg) (Ars Musici), Orlando di Lasso Ensemble (Hannover) (Thorofon), Labyrintho (Stradivarius), Ludus Modalis (Ramée), Concerto Vocale Amsterdam (Glossa, CPO)
Q
Thanks for the suggestions. However, as my listening experience deepens, I am sure to refine my favorites to all-male, OVPP groups. I've already lost one group from my list, A Sei Voci who ceased activity in 2011, which is unfortunate. And I still enjoy The Hilliard Ensemble.
;)
Post by: San Antone on March 19, 2015, 06:53:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/IWgUATjdw_w
Post by: aligreto on March 19, 2015, 12:02:09 PM
For anyone wishing to get a taste of Stimmwerk, here's YouTube clip:
https://www.youtube.com/v/IWgUATjdw_w
Delightful sound with wonderful clarity of lines.
Post by: Que on March 22, 2015, 01:56:35 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. However, as my listening experience deepens, I am sure to refine my favorites to all-male, OVPP groups. I've already lost one group from my list, A Sei Voci who ceased activity in 2011, which is unfortunate. And I still enjoy The Hilliard Ensemble.
;)
Uuhhmmm, I have to admit that I didn't see that one coming... ???
Is that because you think that is historically correct or just a personal preference?
You would be denying yourself so much wonderful stuff! :)
BTW a reissue of a Gesualdo recording by Sei Voci (love their recordings of the Desprez masses, despite the participation of women ;)) has just come out:
Q
Post by: Que on March 22, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
Quote
RICERCAR now celebrates its 35th anniversary with a homage to the greatest Flemish composer of the Renaissance. The works of Cipriano de Rore (1515/16 1565) remained extremely popular until well after his death.Several of his madrigals later appeared in dozens of ornamented versions and continued to do so until the beginning of the 17th century; this was an extraordinary success for the time.Ricercar's leading ensembles of singers and instrumentalists have each made their own original contribution to this recording, providing a complete overview of de Rore's sacred and secular works. The madrigal Ancor che col partire binds the entire recording together, firstly through the original setting with its erotically charged text and secondly through many instrumental versions that were soon made from it.
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 22, 2015, 04:16:14 AM
Uuhhmmm, I have to admit that I didn't see that one coming... ???
Is that because you think that is historically correct or just a personal preference?
You would be denying yourself so much wonderful stuff! :)
Mostly a personal preference. Seems the female voices have a tendancy to become too bright and the overall blend is top heavy. But I am not doctrinaire, and will certainly listen to music made by mixed ensembles as long as the voices are not dominanted by the high voices.
BTW a reissue of a Gesualdo recording by Sei Voci (love their recordings of the Desprez masses, despite the participation of women ;)) has just come out:
Q
Thanks, will look for it.
Post by: San Antone on March 22, 2015, 04:17:00 AM
This new issue should be fun:
Q
Listening on Spotify.
Post by: Mandryka on March 22, 2015, 09:20:22 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. However, as my listening experience deepens, I am sure to refine my favorites to all-male, OVPP groups. I've already lost one group from my list, A Sei Voci who ceased activity in 2011, which is unfortunate. And I still enjoy The Hilliard Ensemble.
;)
Have you explored Ensemble Organum yet?
Post by: San Antone on March 22, 2015, 10:01:37 AM
Have you explored Ensemble Organum yet?
Yes; I like them quite a bit but their choice in repertory is rather limited. A couple of groups I'm focusing on currently are The Suspicious Cheese Lords (http://suspiciouscheeselords.com/) (a pun on the phrase Suscipe Quæso Domine), a male ensemble based in Washington, DC. They are not OVPP but 2VPP is okay as well. Also the Cappella Pratensis (http://www.cappellapratensis.nl/en/) who specializes in the music of Josquin Desprez and other polyphonists from the 15th and 16th centuries.
Post by: Mandryka on March 22, 2015, 10:15:03 AM
Yes; I like them quite a bit but their choice in repertory is rather limited. A couple of groups I'm focusing on currently are The Suspicious Cheese Lords (http://suspiciouscheeselords.com/) (a pun on the phrase Suscipe Quæso Domine), a male ensemble based in Washington, DC. They are not OVPP but 2VPP is okay as well. Also the Cappella Pratensis (http://www.cappellapratensis.nl/en/) who specializes in the music of Josquin Desprez and other polyphonists from the 15th and 16th centuries.
And of course there is that Orlando Consort Ars subtilior CD which is where I came in a couple of weeks ago. It really does grow on me with repeated listening. I checked out their recording of Le voir dit a few weeks ago, though ended up preferring Oxford Camerata because of what I felt was more sensitivity to the words in the big lay. I could be wrong about that.
Post by: Artem on March 22, 2015, 04:24:15 PM
Post by: San Antone on March 24, 2015, 03:15:05 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Bgcu3pxlL._SX355_.jpg)
May
Post by: San Antone on March 24, 2015, 04:23:29 PM
Wonderful recording from Orlando Consort
Post by: San Antone on March 24, 2015, 04:52:35 PM
La Main Harmonique - Frédéric Bétous
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41D-trdgMoL._SS280.jpg)
La Main Harmonique is a French group specializing in lesser known composers from the late 15th and 16th centuries. Their first recording featured Ockeghem and Compere. The personnel appears to be include men and one woman, similar to Singer Pur, and also some members are instrumentalists. They are also active in performing newly composed music.
Here's some info from their website:
Frédéric Bétous and the musicians and singers of La Main Harmonique were driven together and have been working since then around a common idea: to share and revive the delicate and clever beauty of Renaissance music whilst opening new ways towards it in today’s listening habits. In order to reach this ideal, La Main Harmonique stand firmly in present times by regularly commissioning and performing new compositions with period instruments together with pieces from the Early music repertoire – thus earning international acclaim for the quality of their programmes and the excellence of their interpretations (Diapason, Classica etc).
The ensemble’s name refers to the « guidonian hand », a medieval mnemonic device to assist singers in learning to sight-sing. This dates back to Brother Guido d’Arezzo, the 11th-century music theorist who designed it: each portion of the hand represents a specific note within the hexachord system. In teaching, an instructor would indicate a series of notes by pointing to them with their right index on their left hand, and the students would sing them. The guidonian hand was still in use during Renaissance times for teaching solmisation (sung solfège).
Frédéric Bétous has been in demand for years as a countertenor and performed with a number of prestigious ensemble such as Les Éléments, Ensemble Jacques Moderne (Joël Suhubiette), Le Concert Spirituel (Hervé Niquet), Solistes XXI (Rachid Saphir), Diabolus in Musica (Anthoine Guerber), Huelgas Ensemble (Paul Van Nevel), etc.
To him La Main Harmonique is the key to his passion for polyphony and the rediscovery of European Renaissance masterpieces. In the summer of 2011 he launched “Musique en chemin”, a festival whose venues are spread along the Saint James’ Way (Chemin de Compostelle) in the Gers department in the southwest of France.
The recording pictured above is on Spotify and I am listening, and can tell that this is a group i will follow.
Post by: Que on March 25, 2015, 12:07:31 AM
I for one was not aware of the fact that Diabolus in Musica also recorded for another label, Bayard Musique.
And the ensembles La Main Harmonique, Ensemble Cantilena Antiqua, Tenebrae Consort and the Suspicious Cheese Lords are all new to me.
Here are some recently posted items quoted for our convenience:
Vivat Rex! Sacred Choral Music of Jean Mouton is the Cheese Lords (http://suspiciouscheeselords.com/about/)' third CD and their third world premiere recording. It was produced by Tina Chancey of Hesperus.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61O1KEjb%2BOL._SY455_.jpg)
Jean Mouton (c. 1459 – October 30, 1522) was a French composer of the Renaissance. He was famous both for his motets, which are among the most refined of the time, and for being the teacher of Adrian Willaert, one of the founders of the Venetian School. Mouton was hugely influential both as a composer and as a teacher. Of his music, 9 Magnificat settings, 15 masses, 20 chansons, and over 100 motets survive; since he was a court composer for a king, the survival rate of his music is relatively high for the period, it being widely distributed, copied, and archived. In addition, the famous publisher Ottaviano Petrucci printed an entire volume of Mouton's masses (early in the history of music printing, most publications contained works by multiple composers).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dm5HibWHL._SS480.jpg)
Ensemble Clement Janequin, an excellent French group specializing in music from the Renaissance. This recording is of motets by Claudin de Sermisy (c. 1490 – 13 October 1562) a French composer of the Renaissance. Along with Clément Janequin he was one of the most renowned composers of French chansons in the early 16th century; in addition he was a significant composer of sacred music. His music was both influential on, and influenced by, contemporary Italian styles.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/613P2rt6tWL._SX455_.jpg)
Diabolus in Musica (founded Paris, 1992) is a French medieval music ensemble directed by Antoine Guerber.
This recording was released in October 2014 and contains French music from the 12th century; most are by "anonymous" with one work apiece attributed to Léonin and Pérotin. The individual pieces celebrate different saints. If you generally enjoy music from this period (as I do), this is a very good recording by a male group, OVPP, with occasional instrumental accompaniment on medieval harp.
Palol: Joys Amors Et Chants
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61dEt8Apw6L._SX425_.jpg)
For those who enjoy Medieval music, troubadours and troveres, especially, this is a fascinating recording.
From the notes,
Berenguer de Palol was born in Catalonia, the land of the Count of Rossillon. We know very
little about his life; the only date regarding his life that can be established with certainty is 1164,
the year in which his patron Jaufre III died. Berenguer s artistic activity has reached us through
a series of passionate compositions of rare musical and poetic beauty. His poetry shows an
evident research of the supreme love, or joy; a way paved with suffering for love joined to the
cult of feminine beauty. The main subject is woman, seen partly as an abstract goal in the
search of love, and partly real.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511-8%2BcFrpL._SS380.jpg)
Post by: San Antone on March 25, 2015, 01:25:38 AM
Post by: Que on March 25, 2015, 11:43:39 PM
Cross posted from the New Releases thread - Mouton: 1515 - Sacred Works
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Bgcu3pxlL._SX355_.jpg)
May
I just browsed trough the Bayard Musique catalogue and there are some nice recordings by Diabolus in Musica to consider: http://www.adf-bayardmusique.com/artiste1871-ensemble-diabolus-in-musica
Q
Post by: San Antone on March 27, 2015, 12:40:34 PM
Ensemble Venance Fortunat
I think all of this music comes from the Ivrea Codex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivrea_Codex), a parchment manuscript containing a significant body of 14th century French polyphonic music.
Ensemble Venance Fortunat is a French group new to me, but I am impressed and will try to find more from them.
Post by: Moonfish on March 28, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
Ferrara Ensemble/Crawford Young
Just listened to the Ferrara Ensemble from the set below. I picked it up after San Antonio recommended it on this list. Thank you SA! Excellent recording! Full of harmony and allure that makes me want to dig deeper into early music. I am certainly looking forward to the other recordings in this box. Seemingly the originals are OOP so I am pleased that Arcana decided to reissue them.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZHmX10CvL.jpg)
from
Post by: San Antone on March 28, 2015, 05:15:36 PM
Balades a III chans de Johan Robert "Trebor", Baude Cordier, Matteo da Perugia, Antonio da Cividale, Magister Grimace, & al.
Ferrara Ensemble/Crawford Young
Just listened to the Ferrara Ensemble from the set below. I picked it up after San Antonio recommended it on this list. Thank you SA! Excellent recording! Full of harmony and allure that makes me want to dig deeper into early music. I am certainly looking forward to the other recordings in this box. Seemingly the originals are OOP so I am pleased that Arcana decided to reissue them.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZHmX10CvL.jpg)
from
I am glad you enjoyed it. That group of recordings is very fine, IMO.
Post by: San Antone on March 29, 2015, 03:08:19 AM
Formed in 1999 by Schmelzer and based in Antwerp in Belgium, the collective works with material as diverse as Ockeghem’s polyphony, the plainte, machicotage, Mediterranean practices, late scholastic dynamics and kinematics, the affective body, gesture and image culture... What is preoccupying Graindelavoix in early music is the bond between notation and what eludes it: the higher consciousness and savoir-faire that the performer brings to a piece (ornamentation, improvisation, gestures...). Schmelzer works with singers and instrumentalists who embrace diversity, heterogeneity, ornamentation and improvisation in their music-making. In many ways, an ethno-musicological approach to early music.
Very fine.
Post by: aligreto on March 29, 2015, 03:55:33 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/013/MI0001013671.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Post by: Artem on March 29, 2015, 06:44:45 PM
Does anyone have a favorite Gombert CD?
Post by: San Antone on March 31, 2015, 12:22:10 AM
They must be an amateur group since I cannot find much beyond their CD Baby page, but this recording is nice.
(http://images.cdbaby.name/o/l/oldcathedralvoices.jpg)
In sampling several recordings of Byrd masses on Spotify, finding OVPP recordings is not easy. Of course I would prefer a male group, but with the dearth of choices, this will do.
:)
Post by: San Antone on March 31, 2015, 11:32:59 AM
Remede de Fortune Import
Mon chant vous envoy
On Mon Chant Vous Envoy, the team formed in 2005 by Pierre Hamon around the exceptional baritone Marc Mauillon continues to explore the work of the great French musician-poet of the 14th century, Guillaume de Machaut. The album's collection of songs, virelais, ballads and roundels of Guillaume de Machaut exemplify the composer's understanding of the poetic art of courtly love, whose melodies are part of our memory and our psyche. Mauillon is an exceptional talent even in the current environment of medieval music and these melodies 700 years on still maintain an impact. Marc Mauillon is accompanied by his sister Angelique Mauillon on harp, violinist VivaBiancaLuna Biffi, and group leader Pierre Hamon on flute.
Post by: Moonfish on April 01, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
Led here by San Antonio's "ravings"! ;) A new ensemble for me and, indeed, a very pleasant experience. This is an anthology of music with quite varied pieces from the realm of the German Renaissance. Worthwhile! Plenty of music at 74 min and the disc also includes a quicktime video of the making of the recording (also on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJ_YqBcNy0) - see below).
The ensemble seems very vibrant in their music making. Some of the pieces are less appealing to me, but the overall experience was very positive. If you are interested the disk is available at Daedelus Books & Music (http://www.daedalusbooks.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductID=111941&Media=Music) for a song. They also have a large number of early music recordings at affordable prices. Worth checking out if you are a frequent visitor of this thread! :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AKDqjtlnL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51v0hAngvlL.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/v/6HJ_YqBcNy0
Post by: San Antone on April 01, 2015, 12:28:04 PM
Gyri Gyri Gaga - German Renaissance Songs of Lust & Life Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/index.php)
Led here by San Antonio's "ravings"! ;) A new ensemble for me and, indeed, a very pleasant experience. This is an anthology of music with quite varied pieces from the realm of the German Renaissance. Worthwhile! Plenty of music at 74 min and the disc also includes a quicktime video of the making of the recording (also on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJ_YqBcNy0) - see below).
The ensemble seems very vibrant in their music making. Some of the pieces are less appealing to me, but the overall experience was very positive. If you are interested the disk is available at Daedelus Books & Music (http://www.daedalusbooks.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductID=111941&Media=Music) for a song. They also have a large number of early music recordings at affordable prices. Worth checking out if you are a frequent visitor of this thread! :)
Excellent. I haven't heard this recording, but their Pamenter disc is one of the best I have.
Post by: Florestan on April 01, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
Gyri Gyri Gaga - German Renaissance Songs of Lust & Life Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/index.php)
Haven´t heard this one, but it looks delicious. Wishlisted.
In the same vein this disc is a must:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/980/MI0000980025.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Allmusic review by James Leonard -
What is music coming to? With a song called "I'm Called Mister Erection," lyrics including the deathless line "it's a piece of dog sh*t," melodies so primitive that they're infantile, and harmonies so primitive that they barely exist, it's hard to imagine ever calling this stuff music. But not only was this stuff written by Orlande de Lassus, one of the greatest of the late-Renaissance composers, he even saw fit to publish most of it. Apparently, despite his transcendent motets and his exquisite madrigals, Lassus had a sense of humor and all listeners can do is to take it or leave it. But if they decide to take it, they have to take it with a grain of salt and a sense of humor.
Rinaldo Alessandrini and the Concerto Italiano clearly decided to take it with a great sense of humor because this is one of the funniest discs of so-called serious music ever released. That this is the same rarified vocal ensemble that has released so many emotionally nuanced recordings of Monteverdi's madrigals is hard to believe, but clearly the singers are enjoying their work and their enjoyment is infectious. Although the singers still sing with wonderful expressivity and tremendous flexibility, the Concerto Italiano is not shy about making the sound of its voices match the crude, rude, and lewd music. The result is a terrific disc, but certainly not for listeners with delicate sensitivities.
Post by: aligreto on April 01, 2015, 02:03:26 PM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/979/MI0000979609.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
....beautifully sung.
Post by: Moonfish on April 01, 2015, 02:14:45 PM
Haven´t heard this one, but it looks delicious. Wishlisted.
In the same vein this disc is a must:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/980/MI0000980025.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Allmusic review by James Leonard -
What is music coming to? With a song called "I'm Called Mister Erection," lyrics including the deathless line "it's a piece of dog sh*t," melodies so primitive that they're infantile, and harmonies so primitive that they barely exist, it's hard to imagine ever calling this stuff music. But not only was this stuff written by Orlande de Lassus, one of the greatest of the late-Renaissance composers, he even saw fit to publish most of it. Apparently, despite his transcendent motets and his exquisite madrigals, Lassus had a sense of humor and all listeners can do is to take it or leave it. But if they decide to take it, they have to take it with a grain of salt and a sense of humor.
Rinaldo Alessandrini and the Concerto Italiano clearly decided to take it with a great sense of humor because this is one of the funniest discs of so-called serious music ever released. That this is the same rarified vocal ensemble that has released so many emotionally nuanced recordings of Monteverdi's madrigals is hard to believe, but clearly the singers are enjoying their work and their enjoyment is infectious. Although the singers still sing with wonderful expressivity and tremendous flexibility, the Concerto Italiano is not shy about making the sound of its voices match the crude, rude, and lewd music. The result is a terrific disc, but certainly not for listeners with delicate sensitivities.
Leonard's review certainly makes it look like an intriguing (and lewd) recording! :) No wonder one needs the booklets with the texts. 0:)
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 01:32:14 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/196/MI0001196109.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/046/MI0001046994.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 02:15:49 AM
:(
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 02:23:59 AM
Itis unfortunate, since they make a lot of records, but I am not a fan of Anonymous 4. Nothing worse for my ears than an all female group.
:(
You mysoginistic, sexist, patriarchalistic male suprematist! Missing sublime music and musicmaking will be your punishment! ;D :P
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 02:25:47 AM
You mysoginistic, sexist, patriarchalistic male suprematist! Missing sublime music and musicmaking will be your punishment! ;D :P
;D
Post by: Gordo on April 02, 2015, 03:30:46 AM
Nothing worse for my ears than an all female group.
:(
For historical reasons, all-male ensembles faced the lacking of natural treble voices through special training or, more brutally, surgical interventions (castrati). But, apparently, it also had some successful all-women ensembles, with women competently doing bass voices. The documentary "Vivaldi's Women" is very interesting to watch in this aspect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153WVp8QJQ0
:)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 02, 2015, 03:47:49 AM
For historical reasons, all-male ensembles faced the lacking of natural treble voices through special training or, more brutally, surgical interventions (castrati).
There were also boy trebles, of course.
Post by: Gordo on April 02, 2015, 04:01:08 AM
There were also boy trebles, of course.
... of course. :)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 04:40:27 AM
For historical reasons, all-male ensembles faced the lacking of natural treble voices through special training or, more brutally, surgical interventions (castrati). But, apparently, it also had some successful all-women ensembles, with women competently doing bass voices. The documentary "Vivaldi's Women" is very interesting to watch in this aspect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153WVp8QJQ0
:)
My preference is not based on historical reasons, but because of the sound of women's voices. And for mixed groups, if the balance is top heavy it is not to my taste. Male groups who actuate the high tessitura (transposing up), can fall into this category as well.
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 04:43:39 AM
My preference is not based on historical reasons, but because of the sound of women's voices.
Your wife / girlfriend must have a hard time talking to you then. :P
Seriously now, what's wrong with the sound of women's voices?
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 04:45:58 AM
Your wife / girlfriend must have a hard time talking to you then. :P
Seriously now, what's wrong with the sound of women's voices?
I just prefer the sound of men singing this repertory.
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 04:47:19 AM
I just prefer the sound men singing this repertory.
I see. I suppose you're not into opera either. :)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 02, 2015, 04:48:02 AM
My preference is not based on historical reasons, but because of the sound of women's voices. And for mixed groups, if the balance is top heavy it is not to my taste.
Boy trebles have less "heft" in the balance, so that is another advantage.
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 04:50:08 AM
I see. I suppose you're not into opera either. :)
Not a problem (depending on the work), nor is lieder, or female soloists. Pie Jesu from the Durufle Requiem is beautiful, especially sung by Janet Baker. The preference I am speaking of is limited to very early up to Medieval music. Monteverdi madrigals are already too late to figure in. Anonymous 4 has made a specialty of early chant, which is exactly the music I prefer to hear sung by men.
Post by: aligreto on April 02, 2015, 08:04:22 AM
(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/0c8386894b6c68554a45206f9128975d/1687867.jpg)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 07:18:24 PM
Antoine Guerber (Conductor), Diabolus in Musica
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71jXHhMphwL._SX355_.jpg)
Very fine.
Post by: Gordo on April 03, 2015, 06:40:46 PM
The preference I am speaking of is limited to very early up to Medieval music. Monteverdi madrigals are already too late to figure in.
Even so, in regards to Monteverdi, IIRC, you're one of the very few people here that have expressed a very good opinion of Delitiae Musicae which I certainly share. :)
Post by: EigenUser on April 05, 2015, 02:40:09 PM
Post by: San Antone on April 05, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
Even so, in regards to Monteverdi, IIRC, you're one of the very few people here that have expressed a very good opinion of Delitiae Musicae which I certainly share. :)
Is it the Naxos series for Monteverdi and Gesualdo that you are thinking of? I do consider them very worthwhile recordings.
Post by: The new erato on April 05, 2015, 11:19:56 PM
Even so, in regards to Monteverdi, IIRC, you're one of the very few people here that have expressed a very good opinion of Delitiae Musicae which I certainly share. :)Well, I like them too, and said so some years ago.
Post by: San Antone on April 06, 2015, 05:53:36 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yc4Pfc8YL._SS480.jpg)
Troubadours Art Ensemble
Zuchetto, Gerard - Conductor
Post by: Gordo on April 06, 2015, 08:54:35 AM
Well, I like them too, and said so some years ago.
Of course! You're among the very few. :D
Post by: Gordo on April 06, 2015, 08:59:28 AM
Is it the Naxos series for Monteverdi and Gesualdo that you are thinking of? I do consider them very worthwhile recordings.
Yes, but just Monteverdi, I bought the complete collection. On the other hand, I never liked Gesualdo. It's probably too much experimental for my usual tastes. ;D
Post by: San Antone on April 06, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
Yes, but just Monteverdi, I bought the complete collection. On the other hand, I never liked Gesualdo. It's probably too much experimental for my usual tastes. ;D
Ah, the Prince of Venosa and Count of Conza is too much for you! :o
Post by: Mandryka on April 06, 2015, 09:46:26 PM
Two fantastic recordings by Pierre Hamon, Marc Mauillon, and others performing music of Guillaume de Machaut.
Remede de Fortune Import
Mon chant vous envoy
On Mon Chant Vous Envoy, the team formed in 2005 by Pierre Hamon around the exceptional baritone Marc Mauillon continues to explore the work of the great French musician-poet of the 14th century, Guillaume de Machaut. The album's collection of songs, virelais, ballads and roundels of Guillaume de Machaut exemplify the composer's understanding of the poetic art of courtly love, whose melodies are part of our memory and our psyche. Mauillon is an exceptional talent even in the current environment of medieval music and these melodies 700 years on still maintain an impact. Marc Mauillon is accompanied by his sister Angelique Mauillon on harp, violinist VivaBiancaLuna Biffi, and group leader Pierre Hamon on flute.
One outstanding Marc Mauillon disc is called L'amoureus tourment. I play it a lot.
Post by: EigenUser on April 06, 2015, 11:13:11 PM
A while ago I read that the fourth movement of Messiaen's Et Exspecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum was based off of a Gregorian Easter chant. Would anyone happen to know what exactly this chant is? I'd like to hear it in its original setting. Here is the fourth movement of the Messiaen, in case it helps (which it probably won't because I'm sure it has been mangled beyond recognition :laugh:).Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NbjEA7WCYs
Post by: DaveF on April 06, 2015, 11:56:22 PM
Of course! You're among the very few [to express a liking for Delitiæ Musicæ]. :D
Me too - my favourite group for the Monteverdi madrigals. An 8th book from them would be good - although it's been a long time since they recorded Book 7.
Post by: San Antone on April 07, 2015, 02:54:28 AM
Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?
The theme Messiaen uses in the beginning sounds similar to the Introit chant for Easter day. Here's one recording with the chants for Easter Mass
https://www.youtube.com/v/oPLRZGaqA3A
Post by: EigenUser on April 07, 2015, 05:42:32 AM
The theme Messiaen uses in the beginning sounds similar to the Introit chant for Easter day. Here's one recording with the chants for Easter MassThat is definitely it. It must be. Thanks for the help!
https://www.youtube.com/v/oPLRZGaqA3A
I've had the Messiaen-ized version stuck in my head all day today so far.
Post by: Ken B on April 07, 2015, 02:42:47 PM
The theme Messiaen uses in the beginning sounds similar to the Introit chant for Easter day. Here's one recording with the chants for Easter Mass
https://www.youtube.com/v/oPLRZGaqA3A
Nice catch!
Post by: San Antone on April 16, 2015, 04:25:55 AM
Worth a listen.
Post by: San Antone on April 23, 2015, 07:30:09 AM
Focus : Early Music (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/focus-early-music/)
Comments always welcome!
:)
Post by: bluemooze on April 23, 2015, 02:38:30 PM
Post by: San Antone on April 23, 2015, 03:54:45 PM
Well done! :)
Thanks for reading.
Post by: Artem on April 26, 2015, 06:10:35 PM
Post by: San Antone on April 27, 2015, 03:41:01 AM
Enjoyed that blogpost very much, sanantonio.
Thanks!
Post by: Artem on April 27, 2015, 04:20:56 PM
Post by: San Antone on April 27, 2015, 04:46:02 PM
By the way, has there ever been a reissue of the Byrd cd mentioned in your post?
The one that I link to in the post is this one
a bit pricey, yes, but I am not sure if there is another one available.
Post by: San Antone on May 03, 2015, 02:41:38 PM
Livre dou Voir Dit (‘Book of the True Tale’) is Machaut’s masterpiece. By its very title, the tale purports to be autobiographical: it relates a supposedly recent episode in the ageing poet-composer’s life, his love affair with a lady some forty years his junior.
(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571177274.png)
(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571280080.png)
Post by: San Antone on May 21, 2015, 03:50:46 AM
I've heard these two recordings:
Which I think are very fine.
Post by: San Antone on May 26, 2015, 03:31:45 PM
Heinrich Laufenberg (1390-1460) is not well known, and there is a good, albeit unfortunate, reason why. The building where he kept all of his music, the municipal library of Strasbourg, France, was destroyed during the Franco-Prussian war. However, scholars had taken notes of his scores, including almost a complete set of his songs. Although the texts survived, most of the music did not. This album is an attempt to reconstruct some of these songs. The ensemble Dragma utilized the scholarly notes from the 19th century and created music in idiomatic fashion. Interspersed between the reconstructions are instrumental pieces from the period when Laufenberg lived.
Despite the rather speculative nature of the recording, the music is well worth your time.
Post by: Artem on May 27, 2015, 05:37:26 PM
Post by: San Antone on May 27, 2015, 05:56:50 PM
I have recently bought that CD after seeing it receive Diapason D'Or award. I also think it is rather nice.
I agree.
Post by: aligreto on May 30, 2015, 02:29:50 AM
(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/faec239febce556486f60123ff22cb7c/4305489.jpg)
Post by: (: premont :) on May 30, 2015, 03:54:14 AM
Guillaume De Machaut according to Munrow....
(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/faec239febce556486f60123ff22cb7c/4305489.jpg)
What does this release contain?
Post by: Jo498 on May 30, 2015, 04:16:54 AM
Post by: aligreto on May 30, 2015, 04:37:26 AM
What does this release contain?
My version above is the original vinyl LP but here is a link (http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/various_artists_f2/guillaume_de_machaut_and_his_age__the_early_music_consort_of_london___david_munrow__dir__/) with the track listing. It may well indeed be incorporated in the set listed by Jo498.
Post by: (: premont :) on May 31, 2015, 03:47:05 AM
My version above is the original vinyl LP but here is a link (http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/various_artists_f2/guillaume_de_machaut_and_his_age__the_early_music_consort_of_london___david_munrow__dir__/) with the track listing. It may well indeed be incorporated in the set listed by Jo498.
Thanks. As I supposed Jo is right in his post above.
I asked, because I used to own the original LP release (box with 3 LPs - gave them away, when I got the CD release), but the cover picture was different.
Post by: aligreto on May 31, 2015, 04:57:11 AM
Post by: San Antone on May 31, 2015, 05:07:53 AM
These duties positioned and provided Machaut with the skill set and resources to preserve his music to a degree unavailable for most of his contemporaries. As a result we have no problem of attribution, and at least two complete books of his works which were if not completely made by Machaut under his close supervision. The ordering of the works in these volumes is especially important, and something Machaut no doubt controlled.
RTRH (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/guillaume-de-machaut-the-best-known-composerpoet-of-the-14th-century/)
Post by: aligreto on May 31, 2015, 08:40:52 AM
Guillaume de Machaut (ca. 1300-1377) is the most well-known composer of the 14th century. I can make this statement with complete confidence of its veracity. Machaut had a day job, he worked for John of Luxembourg, King of Bohemia, from ‘around twelve years’ before 1330 until at least 1333 (and probably until 1346) (Leach, Elizabeth Eva. “Guillaume de Machaut, royal almoner: Honte, paour (B25) and Donnez, signeurs (B26) in context.” Early Music 38.1 (2010): 21-42.)
These duties positioned and provided Machaut with the skill set and resources to preserve his music to a degree unavailable for most of his contemporaries. As a result we have no problem of attribution, and at least two complete books of his works which were if not completely made by Machaut under his close supervision. The ordering of the works in these volumes is especially important, and something Machaut no doubt controlled.
RTRH (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/guillaume-de-machaut-the-best-known-composerpoet-of-the-14th-century/)
Thank you for that and especially for the link, which I will follow up later.
Post by: Que on June 06, 2015, 12:53:09 AM