GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Shrunk on October 10, 2007, 04:19:46 AM

Title: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Shrunk on October 10, 2007, 04:19:46 AM
Any recommendations?  I'd like a complete set, but I won't mind recommendations on recitals of selected works as well.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 10, 2007, 04:23:29 AM
In my ears the best set you can buy, in sound and performance. Reviews are raving.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 10, 2007, 05:22:07 AM
Agree with Harry. As I have written earlier: If you are going to acquire just one set, this should be the one. But the competition among second sets is strong.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: val on October 10, 2007, 11:15:05 PM
To me, the best part of Buxtehude organ works are the Preludes and Fugues, the Passacaglia and the two Chacones.

Michel Chapuis (VALOIS) was very good. The old anthology of Helmut Walcha (ARCHIV) is also remarkable.

Koopman is recording a new version, but I haven't listened to it yet.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 11, 2007, 02:39:30 AM
Any recommendations?  I'd like a complete set, but I won't mind recommendations on recitals of selected works as well.  Thanks in advance.

I think the Naxos discs are excellent (and cheap). I have nothing to complain.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 11, 2007, 02:46:55 AM
I think the Naxos discs are excellent (and cheap). I have nothing to complain.

They are certainly good Poju, but honestly no match for Vogel. :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 11, 2007, 02:54:27 AM
They are certainly good Poju, but honestly no match for Vogel. :)

Well, unfortunately I bought 4 of those Naxos discs before even knowing about the Vogel set. Anyway, those Naxos discs have been getting 10/10 ratings in CT so I'll survive. Someday there will be a new set that makes Vogel 2nd best so what can you do? That's life.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 11, 2007, 04:54:59 AM
Someday there will be a new set that makes Vogel 2nd best....

Oh but Vogel will continue to reign in Bux-land for quite a while...  :D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on October 11, 2007, 07:02:21 AM
Well, unfortunately I bought 4 of those Naxos discs before even knowing about the Vogel set. Anyway, those Naxos discs have been getting 10/10 ratings in CT so I'll survive.

CT hands out 10/10 ratings at an alarming rate.  I also have all the Naxos/Buxtehude organ discs, and not one of them deserves a 10.  Vogel is a significant improvement - so are Bryndorf on Dacapo and Saorgin on Harmonia Mundi.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 11, 2007, 08:11:06 AM
CT hands out 10/10 ratings at an alarming rate.  I also have all the Naxos/Buxtehude organ discs, and not one of them deserves a 10.  Vogel is a significant improvement - so are Bryndorf on Dacapo and Saorgin on Harmonia Mundi.

In my opinion the Naxos discs do deserve 10/10 rating. The other I have not heard so I don't comment.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: head-case on October 11, 2007, 08:54:20 AM
No opinion of the Walter Kraft set on Vox?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 11, 2007, 11:43:59 AM
No opinion of the Walter Kraft set on Vox?

Walter Kraft´s interpretations are grandiose with an almost gothic air and also a tad romantic, but with great authority and expression and often reaching ecstatic effects. He plays the reconstructed Totentanz-organ (Karl Kemper) in Marienkirche, Lübeck. His registrations are full and sometimes a bit heavy. Recordings were made 1957 in early stereo, good for the time but sometimes with some distortion, and always with much reverberation (due to the great church). I don´t think his set is well suited for the first acquaintance with the works, and would rather recommend Vogel (see above) or Foccroulle.

I have attended several of the late Walter Kraft´s organ recitals (playing among others Buxtehude), and he was even better in the real life than on recordings, his playing always exuding marvellous concentration. He perished in a hotel fire in Amsterdam in 1977.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on October 11, 2007, 12:09:27 PM
In my opinion the Naxos discs do deserve 10/10 rating. The other I have not heard so I don't comment.

How can you have any idea what rating the Naxos discs deserve if you haven't heard the competition?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 12, 2007, 04:02:22 AM
How can you have any idea what rating the Naxos discs deserve if you haven't heard the competition?

Because I have nothing to complain. I am an unemployed person, I can't invest money on all the competition just to find out how crappy some of my CDs are. That would be plain stupid. Naxos is good enough, hands down.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 12, 2007, 04:58:53 AM
And actually the level of the Naxos set is very good. Especially true of the volumes played by Wolfgang Rübsam and his pupil Julia Brown.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on October 12, 2007, 11:52:40 AM
And actually the level of the Naxos set is very good. Especially true of the volumes played by Wolfgang Rübsam and his pupil Julia Brown.

I was a little disappointed with Rubsam's volume.  With his sharply etched and exciting Bach organ recordings in mind, I didn't get what I expected with his Buxtehude disc.  What I did get was rather mainstream interpretations.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 12, 2007, 01:22:52 PM
I was a little disappointed with Rubsam's volume.  With his sharply etched and exciting Bach organ recordings in mind, I didn't get what I expected with his Buxtehude disc.  What I did get was rather mainstream interpretations.

Yes, less extravagant than his Naxos Bach cycle, but mainstream? If you feel this to be mainstream, the reason might be, that his complete Buxtehude cycle from the mid 1980es has set the norm.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 12, 2007, 01:34:56 PM
Yes, less extravagant than his Naxos Bach cycle, but mainstream? If you feel this to be mainstream, the reason might be, that his complete Buxtehude cycle from the mid 1980es has set the norm.

Don may be referring to Rubsam's earlier Bach recordings for Philips (deemed very desirable by many) and
not to his much later Naxos.  I stopped buying his Naxos series after just two disappointments.  Did Rubsam
also record his 80s Bux cycle for Philips? 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 12, 2007, 02:13:00 PM
Don may be referring to Rubsam's earlier Bach recordings for Philips (deemed very desirable by many) and not to his much later Naxos. 

You are right, I didn´t think of that.

Did Rubsam also record his 80s Bux cycle for Philips? 

It was at least released on vinyl by Philips in the mid-1980es. Later it was released on CD by a small German company, whose name always escapes me, Bella Musica, I think, but I can find out, since I own two of the volumes. They were practically unavailable in Denmark, and when the possibility of Internet-trade came by, they vere OOP. I got JPCs last items of the two volumes I own.

Actually I like Rübsam´s meditative, reflective style in his later Bach recording for Naxos very much. Only his Art of Fugue I find too romantic.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 12, 2007, 09:27:51 PM
Actually I like R?sam? meditative, reflective style in his later Bach recording for Naxos very much. Only his Art of Fugue I find too romantic.

Exactly the Art of Fugue were the two disappointing discs I got before quitting altogether on him and Naxos. BTW Rubsam now lives both in Germany and in Indiana US, where he works sometimes as a barber (http://www.wolfsbarbershop.com/)!  ;D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 13, 2007, 03:47:13 AM
Exactly the Art of Fugue were the two disappointing discs I got before quitting altogether on him and Naxos. BTW Rubsam now lives both in Germany and in Indiana US, where he works sometimes as a barber (http://www.wolfsbarbershop.com/)!  ;D

I think it is hasty to reject Rübsams Naxos set on the basis of the AoF, especially as this part of it is the least successful. You might try his Triosonates or Clavierübung III to get a better idea of the set. His two cycles are as different as day and night. I prefer the extrovert brilliant Philips cycle even if the Metzler organ he chosed for it is rather pale. But the slow reflective Naxos cycle has got its points too, and the two cycles complement each other in a most thought-provoking way.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 13, 2007, 03:54:11 AM
Exactly!
The Naxos recordings are beautifully recorded, with a nice and fitting instrument, there is nothing wrong with what I hear.
Bought them anyway, despite that I had the Vogel's already. I love his slow paced attitude, and his careful handling of all the tiny details. A good and cheap alternative to the more expensive sets.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 13, 2007, 04:49:49 AM
I think it is hasty to reject Rübsams Naxos set on the basis of the AoF, especially as this part of it is the least successful. You might try his Triosonates or Clavierübung III to get a better idea of the set. His two cycles are as different as day and night. I prefer the extrovert brilliant Philips cycle even if the Metzler organ he chosed for it is rather pale. But the slow reflective Naxos cycle has got its points too, and the two cycles complement each other in a most thought-provoking way.

Well those who like uniformly slow Bach are more than welcomed to it but for that I already have Walcha.   ;D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 13, 2007, 05:07:22 AM
Exactly!
The Naxos recordings are beautifully recorded, with a nice and fitting instrument, there is nothing wrong with what I hear.
Bought them anyway, despite that I had the Vogel's already. I love his slow paced attitude, and his careful handling of all the tiny details. A good and cheap alternative to the more expensive sets.


Quite frankly the Vogel set can be had for about the same as the whole Naxos lot if one has to buy them individually.  Vogel's extensive notes about the music, instruments used, registration charts and tuning systems etc. those of course one doesn't get with the Naxos. 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 13, 2007, 05:12:01 AM
Also true, I forgot the MDG box is in budgetprice now. :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 05:15:39 AM
Why does some people have so much need to belittle Naxos recordings? That label is not a crappy budget-label. It has become the most important label over the years with many releases with rave reviews. Frankly, I am so happy with my Buxtehude discs the Vogel box must be "out-of this-world" good if it renders Naxos obsolete!  :o

Walcha? I bet those old noisy recordings don't have even stereo sound!  :P
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 13, 2007, 05:18:15 AM
Also true, I forgot the MDG box is in budgetprice now. :)

That MdG doesn't skimp on packaging or the original booklet notes in a budget-priced set is something to be grateful for I think.  They know Vogel's integral Buxtehude is a masterpiece so they treat it accordingly.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 13, 2007, 05:19:28 AM
Why does some people have so much need to belittle Naxos recordings? That label is not a crappy budget-label. It has become the most important label over the years with many releases with rave reviews. Frankly, I am so happy with my Buxtehude discs the Vogel box must be "out-of this-world" good if it renders Naxos obsolete!  :o

Walcha? I bet those old noisy recordings don't have even stereo sound!  :P

Poju, listen my friend, I am glad you like your Naxos recordings, and no one in his right mind will belittle Naxos as a label
And secondly, yes the Naxos recording is no match for Vogel, on all counts.
It is out of this world indeed. :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 13, 2007, 05:20:24 AM

Walcha? I bet those old noisy recordings don't have even stereo sound!  :P


There are two Walcha Bach sets so which one are you talking about?   ;)

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on October 13, 2007, 05:34:46 AM
Why does some people have so much need to belittle Naxos recordings? That label is not a crappy budget-label.

You seem to have the same attitude about Naxos that you do concerning Elgar. 

Although I feel that Naxos is an excellent label, that doesn't mean that I feel the need to praise every Naxos offering.  The same applies to other fine labels I acquire such as Chandos and Hyperion.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 05:44:51 AM
Although I feel that Naxos is an excellent label, that doesn't mean that I feel the need to praise every Naxos offering.  The same applies to other fine labels I acquire such as Chandos and Hyperion.

Yes, Naxos has weak releases (usually the older) too but those Buxtehude discs are good. Some Naxos disc receive "not so good" reviews like 6/7 in CT but Buxtehude is 10/10 meaning enjoyable discs even is Vogel is even better.

You guys are just trying to make me feel bad I don't have Vogel.  :P
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 13, 2007, 05:45:52 AM
There are two Walcha Bach sets so which one are you talking about?   ;)

Which one? Both!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 13, 2007, 06:20:49 AM
Which one? Both!

You lost your bet then.  ;D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on October 13, 2007, 08:10:15 AM
Yes, Naxos has weak releases (usually the older) too but those Buxtehude discs are good. Some Naxos disc receive "not so good" reviews like 6/7 in CT but Buxtehude is 10/10 meaning enjoyable discs even is Vogel is even better.

You guys are just trying to make me feel bad I don't have Vogel.  :P

You know, there are review sources of merit beyond the exaggerated ratings of CT.  A 10/10 from CT doesn't automatically mean anything.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 13, 2007, 09:03:18 AM
Well those who like uniformly slow Bach are more than welcomed to it but for that I already have Walcha.   ;D

The stereo cycle I suppose, even if I haven´t compared the timings. But still very fast compared to Rübsam II.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 13, 2007, 12:48:25 PM
The stereo cycle I suppose, even if I haven´t compared the timings. But still very fast compared to Rübsam II.

I actually have the mono set (10 CDs), but of course you are right - Walcha's tempi really seem just moderate compared to the gasp! s-l-o-w Rübsam II.  I sampled a Naxos Pachelbel recording from Rübsam as well, which surprisingly isn't as extreme.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 13, 2007, 01:27:15 PM
I actually have the mono set (10 CDs), but of course you are right - Walcha's tempi really seem just moderate compared to the gasp! s-l-o-w Rübsam II.  I sampled a Naxos Pachelbel recording from Rübsam as well, which surprisingly isn't as extreme.

Walchas stereo cycle is (concerning the recordings made in Alkmaar) generally somewhat slower than his mono cycle, but even then faster than Rübsam II.

As to Rübsams Pachelbel recording (Vol I - released a long time ago, Vol II has never seen the light of the day) I think the stylus phantasticus agogics, which he applies to Pachelbel, allows for some new-thinking, making the music very dramatic, instead of the regular perfect flow we are used to in this repertoire (especially Pachelbel), and which makes the music almost "harmless".
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 14, 2007, 12:40:52 AM
Oh, Walcha has a stereo set. It's old anyway.

I sampled a Naxos Pachelbel recording from Rübsam as well, which surprisingly isn't as extreme.

I have that disc. Otherwise good but Pachelbel is no match to such masters as Weckmann, Buxtehude and Bruhns.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 14, 2007, 01:59:45 AM
Oh, Walcha has a stereo set. It's old anyway.

It's all old music played on old instruments! ;D

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 14, 2007, 02:55:08 AM
It's all old music played on old instruments! ;D

Yes, but that's not a problem. Crappy sound is.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 14, 2007, 09:59:03 PM
Yes, but that's not a problem. Crappy sound is.

Maybe you should actually listen to either Walcha box before claiming
how "crappy" the sound is.  The mono box in the Original Masters series
has beautiful remastered sound, for example. 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 15, 2007, 12:37:31 AM
Maybe you should actually listen to either Walcha box before claiming
how "crappy" the sound is.  The mono box in the Original Masters series
has beautiful remastered sound, for example. 

Yes, and even the Membran release of the mono set has got a very serviceable sound for about 11 Euros for the whole set (10 CDs).

Link:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6348063?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 15, 2007, 01:25:07 AM
Yes, and even the Membran release of the mono set has got a very serviceable sound for about 11 Euros for the whole set (10 CDs).

Link:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6348063?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist

Is the Membran release identical to the DG Archiv one? (i.e. same remastering)  ???
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 15, 2007, 04:14:54 AM
Maybe you should actually listen to either Walcha box before claiming
how "crappy" the sound is.  The mono box in the Original Masters series
has beautiful remastered sound, for example. 

Yeah, I should but mono sound does not serve the spacious church acoustics.  :P
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 15, 2007, 04:42:43 AM
Yeah, I should but mono sound does not serve the spacious church acoustics.  :P

So you think.  The acoustics was captured alright, believe it or not.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 15, 2007, 05:17:44 AM
So you think.  The acoustics was captured alright, believe it or not.

I believe it's good in monophonic sense. 2D picture can be good in 2D sense but it's not the same as 3D picture. Acoustics is much more than just the reverberation time.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 15, 2007, 06:47:10 AM
I believe it's good in monophonic sense. 2D picture can be good in 2D sense but it's not the same as 3D picture. Acoustics is much more than just the reverberation time.

So it is not crappy as you alleged - what now?   ::)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 15, 2007, 07:17:17 AM
So it is not crappy as you alleged - what now?   ::)

I don't care what it is. My Buxtehude and Bach discs are not played by Walcha.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 15, 2007, 04:18:28 PM
My Buxtehude and Bach discs are not played by Walcha.

Like we didn't know that...  ::)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 16, 2007, 05:55:19 AM
Is the Membran release identical to the DG Archiv one? (i.e. same remastering)  ???

It isn´t stated anywhere on the sleeves, that the Membran release is licenced from DG, and I think Membran had to use the original LPs as source material. However these old LPs had got very good sound - I own some of them - , and Membran´s release has accordingly got a rather decent sound. The main difference (compared to the Archiv CD release) is, that the Membran release  -as far as I can hear - has a very discrete added ambience, and this is not that bad, since the original recordings were very "dry" , especially the Cappel recordings, which were recorded on a relative big organ with close miking in a small church almost without reverberence. In this way both releases have got their virtues, but if you ask me, I prefer the Archiv release. But the Membran release is certainly good value for money.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 16, 2007, 06:16:14 AM
Thank you, dear Premont, for answering my questions based on actual experiences.   Walcha's Bach is not to everybody's liking for sure, but it certainly is unique.  The Schnitger organ in Cappel is less than a perfect match but it appears that the instrument was orginally implemented and housed in a larger space elsewhere before moved to Cappel. The DG Archiv set even includes some demonstrative passages played by Walcha.  Andreas Holschneider's notes on Walcha's Bach recordings (http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Walcha/walchaorg-e.htm)

On a separate note, Lorenzo Ghielmi, whose recording of Bach and Brahms I just obtained, made a (complete) Nikolaus Bruhns album also.  Since I adore his Bach performances (haven't heard the Brahms yet), I may well pick it up if I see a lower price advertised.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 16, 2007, 01:17:29 PM
The DG Archiv set even includes some demonstrative passages played by Walcha.  Andreas Holschneider's notes on Walcha's Bach recordings (http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Walcha/walchaorg-e.htm)

Yes, this was originally released by Archiv on a 45RPM EP.  The speaker is Walchas wife Ursula.


On a separate note, Lorenzo Ghielmi, whose recording of Bach and Brahms I just obtained, made a (complete) Nikolaus Bruhns album also.  Since I adore his Bach performances (haven't heard the Brahms yet), I may well pick it up if I see a lower price advertised.

Even I am a fan of Lorenzo Ghielmis Bach. Don´t know the Bach/Brahms CD, but he made a few Bach-recordings for DHM and and Ars Musici. His Bruhns CD didn´t impress me much at first hearing. I shall listen to it again soon. I contains as a filler the beautiful but seldom recorded Præludium in e-minor by Brunckhorst. Ghielmi also made an interesting CD of Bachs harpsichord/viola da gamba sonatas for Ars Musici with his brother Vittorio Ghielmi, Lorenzo Ghielmi playing the fortepiano. And we should not forget the (midprice)rerelease by DHM of his recording of Fiori Musicali by Frescobaldi.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 16, 2007, 01:40:41 PM
And we should not forget the (midprice)rerelease by DHM of his recording of Fiori Musicali by Frescobaldi.

The above words marked - Ghielmi seems to have made his fame first as a Frescobaldi specialist.  :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 19, 2007, 05:32:39 PM
Concerning the Naxos set of Buxtehudes organ works:

I just listened to the recently released Vol VI played by Julia Brown. She is a pupil of Wolfgang Rübsam, and she has now adopted his playing style even more than in the earlier volumes, and the result is rather impressive. The modern American organ is very much built in Northern German baroque style, and the recording and producing (by Rübsam) is first class. For the first time I don´t miss Rübsam himself at the keyboard in this series.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 19, 2007, 05:34:27 PM
The above words marked - Ghielmi seems to have made his fame first as a Frescobaldi specialist.  :)
Yes, warmly recommended for purchase, if you don´t own it already.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 30, 2007, 05:17:53 AM
On the German quality label NCA the complete organ works on for only 7 euro's.
A bargain.......

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3907704
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on October 30, 2007, 06:36:04 AM
Insane bargain!  :o :o

Thanks for the tip Harry!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 30, 2007, 06:44:41 AM
Your welcome my friend.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 30, 2007, 08:15:42 AM
On the German quality label NCA the complete organ works on for only 7 euro's.
A bargain.......

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3907704

Having owned this recording since its first release more than ten years ago, I can only recommend it. It deserves to get better known. Yhe organist Ulrik Spang-Hanssen is a great virtuoso, and the interpretation is brilliant extrovert when needed and reflective when needed. He uses some restored baroque organs and some modern organs. 

I wrote this about the set in the "recordings you are considering" thread:

For the matter of partial completeness we must mention the likewise Danish Ulrik Spang-Hanssen whose integral from the 1990es have been rereleased by Membran (bargain ca. 10 Euro for 6 CDs). He presents an authoritative and passionate interpretation upon different organs (Schnitger/Nordbrook and Norden,Raphaelis/Roskilde,some Aubertin-organs) and is IMO very well recorded.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 31, 2007, 09:30:31 AM
Its a surprise for me, that so little people are interested in such a great bargain.
Blimey 7 euro's for 5 cd's, Buxtehude...........
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: karlhenning on October 31, 2007, 09:35:37 AM
Well, I haven't yet looked into a stateside source for this. But I am interested in principle  :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on October 31, 2007, 09:37:55 AM
Having owned this recording since its first release more than ten years ago, I can only recommend it. It deserves to get better known. Yhe organist Ulrik Spang-Hanssen is a great virtuoso, and the interpretation is brilliant extrovert when needed and reflective when needed. He uses some restored baroque organs and some modern organs. 

Premont (and Harry), would you prefer it to Vogel (MDG)?

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 31, 2007, 09:59:37 AM
Premont (and Harry), would you prefer it to Vogel (MDG)?

Q

I see it as a added bonus Que, for a ridiculous price.
I could live with this one, if Vogel was not on the market.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Novi on October 31, 2007, 12:14:36 PM
Its a surprise for me, that so little people are interested in such a great bargain.
Blimey 7 euro's for 5 cd's, Buxtehude...........

Hey Harry, I'm interested :). Thanks for the tip. It's in my jpc basket now. I usually wait until I've accumulated a few disks before I order because of their flat rate delivery charge. I don't know these works, so am looking forward to them.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on October 31, 2007, 01:45:39 PM
Hey Harry, I'm interested :). Thanks for the tip. It's in my jpc basket now. I usually wait until I've accumulated a few disks before I order because of their flat rate delivery charge. I don't know these works, so am looking forward to them.

I assure you, it will not disappoint you...
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 31, 2007, 02:24:14 PM
Premont (and Harry), would you prefer it to Vogel (MDG)?

Q

No, the choice between Vogel and Spang-Hanssen would turn out in Vogels favour. But this is true of any other Buxtehude cycle, I have heard so far. I would recommend Spang-Hanssen as one of the most attractive supplementary choices for collectors of multiple recordings. And if Vogel was unavailable, Spang-Hanssen might easily become my first choice, - and regarding its cost indeed irresistible.

In short: get it, you will not regret.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on October 31, 2007, 06:45:48 PM
I see it as a added bonus Que, for a ridiculous price.
I could live with this one, if Vogel was not on the market.

No, the choice between Vogel and Spang-Hanssen would turn out in Vogels favour. But this is true of any other Buxtehude cycle, I have heard so far. I would recommend Spang-Hanssen as one of the most attractive supplementary choices for collectors of multiple recordings. And if Vogel was unavailable, Spang-Hanssen might easily become my first choice, - and regarding its cost indeed irresistible.

In short: get it, you will not regret.

Thank you both! :) I'll stick with Vogel first then - I have too little shelf space already.  :-\
Even if it is 7 euros..

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on October 31, 2007, 10:20:45 PM
Even if it is 7 euros..

Late W. A. Grieve-Smith also said "save your shekels for Vogel" here (http://www.lafolia.com/archive/grieve/grieve200108organ1.html).  Naturally just another opinion, but nevertheless one from a very experienced organ-and-choir recording listener and collector, like our premont
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on November 01, 2007, 02:32:29 AM
Input data:

+ 5 CDs for 7 euros is a bargain
+ Buxtehude rules
- I don't have shelf space
- I don't have too much money
- I have 4 volumes of Buxtehude organ works on Naxos
- I might want to try Vogel one day

=> Result after prosessing the input data: Do nothing.

 :-\
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Cato on November 01, 2007, 03:45:57 AM
So, when do we get a deal like this for e.g. the complete Langgard symphonies?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on November 01, 2007, 03:53:55 AM
So, when do we get a deal like this for e.g. the complete Langgard symphonies?

Sigh...... ;D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: BachQ on November 01, 2007, 02:34:53 PM
Input data:

+ 5 CDs for 7 euros is a bargain
+ Buxtehude rules
- I don't have shelf space
- I don't have too much money
- I have 4 volumes of Buxtehude organ works on Naxos
- I might want to try Vogel one day

=> Result after prosessing the input data: Do nothing.

 :-\

You don't need shelf space.  Rip the CD's to your computer and then store the CD's in the closet.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on November 02, 2007, 03:15:47 AM
You don't need shelf space.  Rip the CD's to your computer and then store the CD's in the closet.

Who said I have closet space? I don't use my computer to listen to music at home (many technical reasons).
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 09, 2008, 11:42:31 PM
Decided to take the discussion here. :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51w3bqwqqcL._SS500_.jpg)

Disc 5  (Still not done with this , Harry... 8) )

This is an excellent set, stylish and well condidered playing - though sometimes a touch on the "academic" side. Might supplement this with an organist that really goes "wild" with some Buxtehude.  ;D
Gorgeous instruments, beautifully recorded.

Q

Most HIP Buxtehude integrals are a tad on the academical side. Ulrik Spang-Hanssen and Olivier Vernet offer a bir more Sturm und Drang than Vogel, but I am not sure, that you will find the difference big enough. But two older non-HIP integrals offer at least sometimes a more expressive, extatic and less academical playing. These are Walter Kraft and Michel Chapuis. Kraft has got dated sound and much reverberation, and Chapuis is variable and often rather mechanical. Taken as a whole (considering cost, style, sound) I think the dirt cheap Spang-Hanssen integral is the best buy (as complementation to Vogel). The newly rereleased Saorgin integral is imposing and relative cheap, but he is also rather much on the academical side. Rübsam, Rogg and Ablitzer are OOP, and I do not think, they would meet your demands. Foccroulle and Stender never go wild, Bryndorf only rarely. The Naxos integral with Julia Brown and others is reliable but no match for Vogel. I don´t know how the ongoing Koopman integral will turn out. We have to hope, that artists like Matthias Eisenberg and Martin Sander make an integral some day or maybe Andre Isoir.

Premont, thanks so much for your extensive and extremely helpful comments!  :)
I sampled Fouccrolle before buying the Vogel, and the reissued Saorgin set only yesterday - it indeed doesn't offer something more or different than Vogel. I'm still satisfied with my choice for Vogel, but will look further. Jean-Charles Ablitzer, well I like him very much in Couperin and in Bach as well, so that might be an option - if I can find it. And Ton Koopman, now there is a thought! :D He probably will do a complete series, but can sometimes take things over the top and sounding too fussy with over-ornamentation. Still, on moments that the stars are rightly aligned - I absolutetly love him, his Bach series on Novalis for instance (now also on Brilliant).

Matthias Eisenberg and Martin Sander are new names to me - I'll keep them in mind.  :)
(Or maybe Kay Johannsen or Martin Lücker?)

Q

EDIT: PS - Ablitzer seems to rock. 8) (Samples (http://www.micmacmusic.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&keywords=ablitzer+buxtehude&x=0&y=0))
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 10, 2008, 06:23:27 AM
Three pages into this thread and nobody has mentioned Rene Saorgin yet? The hell...
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 10, 2008, 08:13:14 AM
So, what is your opinion on the Saorgin?

I just think his interpretation is one of the most satisfying among those i heard. He accentuates all the dramatic passages with a deep, bellowing volume but has enough sense to play around with dynamic levels to create a bit of tonal variation. He has enough control under his finger not to let any loose edges slip and the polyphony is always maintained clear through a uniform, plastic tone. The only downside is that his finales don't have a lot of fire and he actually becomes metronomic at times (but not always!), and he keeps everything under such a firm grip the music lacks a bit of spontaneity.

Walter Kraft shares many of the same qualities except his playing has a lot more freedom, but his set looses a lot in terms of sound quality. 

Harald Voge is often very nimble and dynamic but he's too projected, he never let's the music rest at any point. Other times, he becomes worst then Saorgin. His tone is too thin (and sometimes flat), as well. His set is the only one that is "truly" complete though, but that's assuming you really need every scrap of music Buxtehude has ever written (plus much of omitted material was intended for harpsichord and works better that way too).

Michel Chapuis is way too fast and he brushes off a lot of things. Didn't like him much. Ulrik Spang-Hanssen also gave me a bad impression but i forgot why. It's been a long time since i listened to his recording.

Actually, now that i think about it i haven't listened to this music for a while so perhaps i'm ready for a fresh re-evaluation.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on January 10, 2008, 04:06:55 PM
I believe it's good in monophonic sense. 2D picture can be good in 2D sense but it's not the same as 3D picture. Acoustics is much more than just the reverberation time.

It amazes me that so many folks put as much priority on DDD sound as they do on the quality of the music and performances.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on January 10, 2008, 04:08:55 PM
Three pages into this thread and nobody has mentioned Rene Saorgin yet? The hell...

I've had Saorgin's cycle for many years and consider it essential.  As far as SACD's go, I opt for the Bryndorf cycle in progress - her celebratory style suits me perfectly.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 10, 2008, 04:17:37 PM
I just think his interpretation is one of the most satisfying among those i heard.....

Much appreciated, JdP!  :)
I'll keep your comments on Vogel in mind, while evaluating his set.

I've had Saorgin's cycle for many years and consider it essential.  As far as SACD's go, I opt for the Bryndorf cycle in progress - her celebratory style suits me perfectly.

And I'll have listen to Bryndorf as well, thanks Don.

When sampling, I liked Jean-Charles Ablitzer (Harmonic Records) a lot - is there anyone that can comment on those?

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on January 10, 2008, 04:18:46 PM
It amazes me that so many folks put as much priority on DDD sound as they do on the quality of the music and performances.

It amazes me that so many folks don't care about sound quality. Why listen to pre-historical, noisy and distorted mono sound when just as good performances are available in crystal clean stereo DDD sound or even multichannel SACD sound?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 10, 2008, 06:17:41 PM
It amazes me that so many folks don't care about sound quality. Why listen to pre-historical, noisy and distorted mono sound when just as good performances are available in crystal clean stereo DDD sound or even multichannel SACD sound?

Because sometimes the performances in those "pre-historical" recordings are superior to those in modern sound.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on January 10, 2008, 10:15:50 PM
Because sometimes the performances in those "pre-historical" recordings are superior to those in modern sound.

Also, it's very interesting to compare performance styles from one era to another.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 11, 2008, 04:01:57 AM
Any thoughts on Vernet?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418fXHnuocL._AA240_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on January 11, 2008, 05:23:29 AM
Because sometimes the performances in those "pre-historical" recordings are superior to those in modern sound.

I don't believe this. The whole "this performance is superior to this performance" does not make much sense. It's a matter of personal references. Let's assume we have five "good/excellent" performances of a certain work. Let the recording years be 1947, 1955, 1969, 1983 and 1997. Now, if someone buys this work in 1975 he/she has three options to choose from. Let's assume 1955 is best performance of these even if 1969 recording has better sound. What happens is this 1955 becames the reference performance of the work for this person, the way it must be played. By now this person has tried the 1983 and 1997 versions too but he/she does not like them because they are different from 1955 version. This person is stuck in history.

Performers didn't lose their ability to play well the day digital recording started.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on January 11, 2008, 05:23:54 AM
Any thoughts on Vernet?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418fXHnuocL._AA240_.jpg)

Q

I haven't heard this set for a while now (and do not have it with me) but don't
think it's up to his integral Bach in terms of recorded sound (an important factor
to me as far as everything goes... but especially organ music).   The interpretations
don't seem to sparkle as much also.  I will not put down on the Vogel just based on
some other people's preferences, though.  His set has the right instruments which
Buxtehude knew and probably played, and Vogel apparently knows them well also,
considering the fact that he has studied them for decades and is often a "curator"
at their restoration.  In a word, Vogel is a specialist on what came down to us as
the most important physical evidence of seventeenth-century Northern German
organ music. 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 11, 2008, 06:04:18 AM
I haven't heard this set for a while now (and do not have it with me) but don't
think it's up to his integral Bach in terms of recorded sound (an important factor
to me as far as everything goes... but especially organ music).   The interpretations
don't seem to sparkle as much also.

Thanks for your comment. His Bach was rather nice BTW, but I remember it as a bit uneven interpretations that hadn't quite "settled" yet.

I had an interesting morning listening to Buxtehude's organ music.
First I re-listened to some of Vogel's set, sampled the Saorgin again, as well as Ablitzer and Bryndorf.
And Vogel came out of this pretty strong. I recognised in the Saorgin the style I knew from his Bach, it feels very reverential and it is undercharacterised and rather toned down for my taste. Bryndorf sounds energetic and quite nice. The Ablizter recordings still sound very attractive - I just like his style: strongly characterised and expressive but he can be very stilled and poetic as well. He certainly "has a sparkle". The latter goes less so for Koopman (Channel Classics), which is also strongly characterised, but with his customary "drive" and ornamentations. I rather liked it anyway.
What I like about Vogel is his balanced profundity in conceptualising a piece, but still combined with sufficient expression by the contrasts in rhythm and in the sound picture he provides. And he uses beautiful instruments in just-right recordings.

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on January 11, 2008, 06:14:31 AM
I had an interesting morning listening to Buxtehude's organ music.
First I re-listened to some of Vogel's set, sampled the Saorgin again, as well as Ablitzer and Bryndorf.
And Vogel came out of this pretty strong. I recognised in the Saorgin the style I knew from his Bach, it feels very reverential and it is undercharacterised and rather toned down for my taste. Bryndorf sounds energetic but rather "big", the detailing doesn't always agree with me. The Ablizter recordings still sound very attractive - I just like his style: strongly characterised and expressive but he can be very stilled and poetic as well. He certainly "has a sparkle". The latter goes less so for Koopman (Channel Classics), which is also strongly characterised and expressive, but with his customary "drive" and ornamentations. I rather liked it anyway.
What I like about Vogel is his balanced profundity in conceptualising a piece, while still combined with sufficient characterisation/expression by the contrasts in rhythm and in the sound picture he provides. And he uses beautiful instruments in just-right recordings.

Q
That is rather conceptual characteristic to hear, and I am intrinsically happy about that! ;D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 11, 2008, 06:17:35 AM
That is rather conceptual characteristic to hear, and I am intrinsically happy about that! ;D

Organ music is deeeep stuff, Harry! ;D

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Harry on January 11, 2008, 06:25:40 AM
Organ music is deeeep stuff, Harry! ;D

Q

O, tell me, I am in Pomerania right now....... :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 11, 2008, 07:43:37 AM
It's a matter of personal references.

Says who?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on January 11, 2008, 08:12:44 AM
Says who?

There is not always complete consensus over which performance is the best.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 11, 2008, 09:30:46 AM
There is not always complete consensus over which performance is the best.

That's because people have no taste.  :P
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on January 11, 2008, 11:26:00 AM
That's because people have no taste.  :P

Oh right, only you have!  ::)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 11, 2008, 02:09:47 PM
Oh right, only you have!  ::)

It's not my fault if people aren't free-thinking enough.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on January 11, 2008, 02:18:25 PM
It's not my fault if people aren't free-thinking enough.

That's a big "if" though.  ;)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Don on January 11, 2008, 02:28:44 PM
There is not always complete consensus over which performance is the best.

I can't think of any reason why there would be complete consensus.  We're not a bunch of clones.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Sarastro on January 11, 2008, 08:09:38 PM
In my ears the best set you can buy, in sound and performance. Reviews are raving.

I didn't listen to the whole set, but the one CD from there was my last week discovery. After that I did a little step into organ music, really amazing!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on January 13, 2008, 01:27:20 PM
His Bach was rather nice BTW, but I remember it as a bit uneven interpretations that hadn't quite "settled" yet.

After the extremely architetonic Walcha I actually prefer Bach organ music that doesn't sound "quite settled" - Bach wrote most of his organ music in his youth years, so it can't be all settled in perfection and maturity - and imo the stylus phantasticus can be interpreted as something uneven, the more so the better.  ;)   That said, I think the strongest point of Vernet's set (14 discs which I got for under $18!) is the recorded sound - consistently through the set it's ideally balanced so nothing sounds blurry or dry.  Considering over 10 instruments in various locations were used that's quite a feat.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 13, 2008, 01:36:04 PM
.. the stylus phantasticus can be interpreted as something uneven, the more so the better.  ;)

But not at this side - I actually like my Bach a bit "rough".  ;D


Quote
That said, I think the strongest point of Vernet's set (14 discs which I got for under $18!) is the recorded sound - consistently through the set it's ideally balanced so nothing sounds blurry or dry.  Considering over 10 instruments in various locations were used that's quite a feat.

Now, where do you find all those wonderful bargains?!  :o  :D

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on January 13, 2008, 01:49:03 PM
But not at this side - I actually like my Bach a bit "rough".  ;D

"This side"?  Anyway, why should seventeenth-century baroque music sound 'rough'?  It should sound fluid, ever changing and a bit skewed where a taste for "fantasie" requires it.

Quote

Now, where do you find all those wonderful bargains?!  :o  :D


Thanks to a mis-pricing from Barnes and Noble, but that was quite a few years ago....
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on January 13, 2008, 02:56:02 PM
After the extremely architetonic Walcha I actually prefer Bach organ music that doesn't sound "quite settled" - Bach wrote most of his organ music in his youth years, so it can't be all settled in perfection and maturity - and imo the stylus phantasticus can be interpreted as something uneven, the more so the better.  ;) 

I think that's a silly line of reasoning. It's irrelevant whether the bulk of his organ music consists of youthful works (which is a gross exaggeration to begin with). His reputation lies in his mature pieces, by which point he had already moved beyond the "stylus phantasticus". Trying to pigeonhole his entire opus to some stylistic fashion which was already going out of style by the time Bach came around seems like a disservice to his legacy.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: jlaurson on December 24, 2008, 04:44:12 AM
Exactly the Art of Fugue were the two disappointing discs I got before quitting altogether on him and Naxos. BTW Rubsam now lives both in Germany and in Indiana US, where he works sometimes as a barber (http://www.wolfsbarbershop.com/)!  ;D

Apparently he only gives one kind of cut. :-)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on May 03, 2009, 12:05:19 AM
Right now I'm listening to the Praeludium in d-moll, BuxWV 140, played by Sietze de Vries. De Vries is an organist who can play almost anything: from pre-baroque until modern. But he's most known for his improvisations (mainly on psalms and hymns). On this disc, among other pieces by his own, he's playing the liturgical works Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern and Te Deum laudamus, resp. BuxWV 223 & 218. The verses are alternated with choral singing by a girl's choir (youth ensemble Focaliber).

Hush. They just start to sing.

OMG, it's pure heaven on this Sunday!

(http://www.badongo.com/t/250/5861298.jpg)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on May 09, 2009, 05:42:38 AM
Apparently he only gives one kind of cut. :-)

You mean a crew cut ...   ;D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on May 09, 2009, 05:57:00 AM
Trying to pigeonhole his entire opus to some stylistic fashion which was already going out of style by the time Bach came around seems like a disservice to his legacy.

Good point.  William Boyce, an English baroque composer, was often criticized for composing music that was out of style since he lived till 1779, some twenty years after Handel's death, the year many have considered to be the end of the baroque era.  I personally find many of Boyce's works quite delightful.   
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on May 10, 2009, 03:55:40 AM
"This side"?  Anyway, why should seventeenth-century baroque music sound 'rough'?  It should sound fluid, ever changing and a bit skewed where a taste for "fantasie" requires it.

Agreed, and I think Que owes us to elaborate a little more upon the word "rough". Maybe it is just me, but I do not quite understand the word in this context.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on May 10, 2009, 05:10:57 AM
Whatever happened to the label Bellaphon?  I started collecting the Buxtehude's organ works on Bellaphon by Rubsam in the late 80's to early 90's (I have a few of these CD's) then all of a sudden the label disappeared ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51elYFvu8BL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on May 10, 2009, 05:18:51 AM
Whatever happened to the label Bellaphon?  I started collecting the Buxtehude's organ works on Bellaphon by Rubsam in the late 80's to early 90's (I have a few of these CD's) then all of a sudden the label disappeared ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51elYFvu8BL._SS400_.jpg)
The label has probably gone out of business ages ago. This is the first time I hear about this label.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on May 10, 2009, 05:33:19 AM
The label has probably gone out of business ages ago. This is the first time I hear about this label.

I think Bellaphone might be related to Supraphon and Hungaroton.   
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on May 10, 2009, 06:25:02 AM
I think Bellaphone might be related to Supraphon and Hungaroton.   

Perhaps, but Supraphon and Hungaroton are "obscure" to me too. I have one Supraphon CD and that's it.  :P
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on May 10, 2009, 08:13:27 AM
I think Bellaphone might be related to Supraphon and Hungaroton.   

I think it was related to Bayer Records. The Buxtehude/Rübsam set from the 1980es was also released on LP by Philips and was still available on Bellaphon CD´s at JPC about five years ago. I found out too late, and did not manage to purchase other than two volumes. Though, if the two volumes I own are representative for the set, I do not regret seriously that I did not get the rest. If you want to know more about this, you may email Rübsam on his website (Wolfs barbershop).
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: FideLeo on May 10, 2009, 08:17:38 AM
Agreed, and I think Que owes us to elaborate a little more upon the word "rough". Maybe it is just me, but I do not quite understand the word in this context.

Perhaps he meant "rough" = "impassioned."  That would more closely connect "stylus phantasticus" to, for example, Monteverdi's stile concitato.  But still I think the "stylised" aspect of this term should would have been the focus rather than the emotional one.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on December 10, 2009, 12:22:30 AM
I've been raving about Jean-Charles Ablitzer's Buxtehude series on many occassions before. Finest Buxtehude complete cycle that I know - though I haven't engaged in Koopman's new cycle (yet).  :)

For anyone interested: jpc is offering these as a bargain for 6 euros! And if it tastes like more: it is a complete series though volume 6 was never issued because Harmonic Records went out of business. Now it has been resurrected but is dormant, yet any previous issue can be ordered at Harmonic Classics (http://www.harmonicclassics.com/) as a CD-R issue with a colour copied booklet, including that "missing" volume 6. Same concept as Arkiv offers - sounds and looks fine to me.

Samples and downloads available HERE (http://www.micmacmusic.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&keywords=ablitzer+buxtehude&x=0&y=0)!

(Pictures are linked to jpc)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3428440871801.jpg)  (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Dieterich-Buxtehude-Orgelwerke-Vol-1/hnum/5064146) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3428440882609.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Dieterich-Buxtehude-Orgelwerke-Vol-2/hnum/3897071)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3428440883002.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Dieterich-Buxtehude-Orgelwerke-Vol-3/hnum/3897081) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3428440893407.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Dieterich-Buxtehude-Orgelwerke-Vol-5/hnum/3897106)

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 11, 2009, 01:19:42 AM
I've been raving about Jean-Charles Ablitzer's Buxtehude series on many occassions before. Finest Buxtehude complete cycle that I know - though I haven't engaged in Koopman's new cycle (yet).  :)

For anyone interested: jpc is offering these as a bargain for 6 euros! And if it tastes like more: it is a complete series though volume 6 was never issued because Harmonic Records went out of business. Now it has been resurrected but is dormant, yet any previous issue can be ordered at Harmonic Classics (http://www.harmonicclassics.com/) as a CD-R issue with a colour copied booklet, including that "missing" volume 6. Same concept as Arkiv offers - sounds and looks fine to me.

Que, on behalf of all the organ lovers (he wrote self-confident) thanks for the research and the information!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on December 11, 2009, 07:58:44 PM
I have had this set for some times ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rNXNYkewL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 12, 2009, 12:45:05 AM
I have had this set for some times ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rNXNYkewL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

One of the best in ny opinion.

Available for 8 Euros from JPC in a Membran/Doc release which has got even better SQ than the original Danish release.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Dieterich-Buxtehude-Orgelwerke-Documents-Wallet-Box/hnum/5573281
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on December 12, 2009, 06:55:35 AM
One of the best in ny opinion.

Available for 8 Euros from JPC in a Membran/Doc release which has got even better SQ than the original Danish release.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Dieterich-Buxtehude-Orgelwerke-Documents-Wallet-Box/hnum/5573281

Some people on this forum have fingered Document as a pirate label?  But I seriously doubt that charge.  What are your thoughts, premont?  I do have a number of sets by Document and think their SQ has been excellent.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 12, 2009, 09:07:45 AM
Some people on this forum have fingered Document as a pirate label?  But I seriously doubt that charge.  What are your thoughts, premont?  I do have a number of sets by Document and think their SQ has been excellent.

The Buxtehude set is licenced from the Danish producer, so no piracy there.

As to other sets (f.i.) the Bach / Walcha mono set, comparative listening makes me think, that they used the LP releases as source, so no piracy there either.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on December 12, 2009, 09:11:15 AM
The Buxtehude set is licenced from the Danish producer, so no piracy there.

As to other sets (f.i.) the Bach / Walcha mono set, comparative listening makes me think, that they used the LP releases as source, so no piracy there either.

I bought all my Document sets from reputable e-tailers, not fly-by-night types and seriously doubt they want their reputations tarnished by offering up pirated music ...
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 12, 2009, 12:28:14 PM
....and seriously doubt they want their reputations tarnished by offering up pirated music ...

I wish, it was that well.

Amazon.co.uk lists (e.g.) releases from a notorious pirat label: Concerto Royale

Link: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dclassical&field-keywords=concerto+royale&x=14&y=22
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: listener on December 12, 2009, 06:03:12 PM
Buxtehude biography re-issued
http://www.gothic-catalog.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BK-Buxtehude%2FSnyder
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on December 13, 2009, 02:44:04 AM
I have had this set for some times ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rNXNYkewL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Ugly cover art! Very repulsive.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 13, 2009, 03:13:25 AM
Ugly cover art! Very repulsive.

The repulsive cover is the cover of the Danish Classico release.

The better German Doc release has got a more neutral cover.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: The new erato on December 13, 2009, 03:24:22 AM
The repulsive cover is the cover of the Danish Classico release.

The better German Doc release has got a more neutral cover.
I've got this bookmarked for purchase. Thank you guys.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on December 13, 2009, 04:27:08 AM
The better German Doc release has got a more neutral cover.

Yes, much better indeed.  ;) I wonder how this set compares with Naxos releases I have (except volume 7 which is to be purchased in the near future).
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 13, 2009, 06:00:56 AM
Yes, much better indeed.  ;) I wonder how this set compares with Naxos releases I have (except volume 7 which is to be purchased in the near future).

If you do not intend to to investigate Buxtehudes organ works that much, I think you are well served with the Naxos release. But I think Spang-Hanssen is marginally more interesting (more infectious stylus fantasticus playing and more interesting organs) and his set is really a bargain and value for money.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on December 13, 2009, 08:32:32 AM
If you do not intend to to investigate Buxtehudes organ works that much, I think you are well served with the Naxos release. But I think Spang-Hanssen is marginally more interesting (more infectious stylus fantasticus playing and more interesting organs) and his set is really a bargain and value for money.

Ok, sounds good. Bargain this set really is, would Yoda say!  ;)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Coopmv on December 13, 2009, 08:51:37 AM
Ok, sounds good. Bargain this set really is, would Yoda say!  ;)

I stumbled upon the original release during my web-surfing a number of years ago ...
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Leo K. on January 27, 2012, 11:34:31 AM
In my ears the best set you can buy, in sound and performance. Reviews are raving.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51w3bqwqqcL._SS500_.jpg)

Wow, an amazing sounding set! After the first disk I'm hooked  8)

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Geo Dude on February 18, 2012, 08:03:15 PM
Wow, an amazing sounding set! After the first disk I'm hooked  8)

I've also been hooked by the first disc.  Tempos tend to be slow, but the sound is great and Vogel certainly manages to be quite profound.  It will be interesting to compare it to the Spang-Hanssen recording once I've had a chance to make it through the set.  Simone Stella (recorded the complete works of Buxtehude on harpsichord) has also recorded a set.  I'm sure that will be wonderful when he eventually finds a record label for it.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Leo K. on February 19, 2012, 07:04:48 AM
I've also been hooked by the first disc.  Tempos tend to be slow, but the sound is great and Vogel certainly manages to be quite profound.  It will be interesting to compare it to the Spang-Hanssen recording once I've had a chance to make it through the set.  Simone Stella (recorded the complete works of Buxtehude on harpsichord) has also recorded a set.  I'm sure that will be wonderful when he eventually finds a record label for it.

I agree Vogel projects profoundity in his tone, and this is such a great introduction to Buxtehude's keyboard work. I have Simone Stella's harpsichord set and it's stunning, highly recommended for performance and great sound quality.


Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 01, 2012, 08:55:56 AM
 Quote from: Leo K on February 19, 2012, 11:04:48 AM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=3769.msg602913#msg602913)
I agree Vogel projects profoundity in his tone, and this is such a great introduction to Buxtehude's keyboard work. I have Simone Stella's harpsichord set and it's stunning, highly recommended for performance and great sound quality.
 
Just landed here; I shall listen in a bit.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Leo K. on March 01, 2012, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: Leo K on February 19, 2012, 11:04:48 AM (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=3769.msg602913#msg602913)
I agree Vogel projects profoundity in his tone, and this is such a great introduction to Buxtehude's keyboard work. I have Simone Stella's harpsichord set and it's stunning, highly recommended for performance and great sound quality.
 
Just landed here; I shall listen in a bit.

Look forward to your thoughts!

 8)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 07, 2012, 10:56:04 AM
What do you think of Focroulle's Buxtehude, premont?

I've been listening fairly randomly on spotify and I like what I hear in Buxwv 150 and 142. Restrained, a nice sounding instrument in both cases I think, and in Buxwv 150 especially, quite contemplative and intimate.

Do the earlier buxwv numbers mean that the piece is an earlier work?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on March 11, 2012, 05:43:49 AM
What do you think of Focroulle's Buxtehude, premont?

I got this set a couple of years ago and listened to it twice. My feelings were somewhat mixed. So I decided to relisten to the entire set once more before answering you.

For some reason I still get the impression that Foccroulle is a relative newcomer to most of Buxtehudes organ works. As if he has not quite digested them. Much like the impression one gets of Marie-Claire Alains complete set on Danish organs from ca. 1970. While the most accessible part of the works (the chorale bound works) is beautifully done, I think the chorale free works fare less well. In these Foccroulle seems to aim more at diversity than at coherence, and even if diversity with sudden and unexpected change of affects is a central part of the stylus phantasticus, the coherence of a given work is just as important. The interpreter must give the impression that the different parts of a given work do not come in casual sequence but that they obey some inner unspoken logic. I think Foccroulle fails here, and this is in short why I find listening to him somewhat frustrating in this repertoire. 

BTW He plays some interesting organs, none of them equally tuned, so for organological reasons the set is very interesting.

Quote from: Mandryka
Do the earlier buxwv numbers mean that the piece is an earlier work?

No, the works are numbered according to the kind of work (e.g. Præludium, Choralfantasy)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on March 11, 2012, 03:04:13 PM
I took the time to explore some new Buxtehude recordings, but i think i still like Saorgin best.

I wish more ensembles would take up on his cantatas, don't really like Koopman. :(
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 12, 2012, 11:14:47 AM
I got this set a couple of years ago and listened to it twice. My feelings were somewhat mixed. So I decided to relisten to the entire set once more before answering you.

For some reason I still get the impression that Foccroulle is a relative newcomer to most of Buxtehudes organ works. As if he has not quite digested them. Much like the impression one gets of Marie-Claire Alains complete set on Danish organs from ca. 1970. While the most accessible part of the works (the chorale bound works) is beautifully done, I think the chorale free works fare less well. In these Foccroulle seems to aim more at diversity than at coherence, and even if diversity with sudden and unexpected change of affects is a central part of the stylus phantasticus, the coherence of a given work is just as important. The interpreter must give the impression that the different parts of a given work do not come in casual sequence but that they obey some inner unspoken logic. I think Foccroulle fails here, and this is in short why I find listening to him somewhat frustrating in this repertoire. 

BTW He plays some interesting organs, none of them equally tuned, so for organological reasons the set is very interesting.

No, the works are numbered according to the kind of work (e.g. Præludium, Choralfantasy)


First off, thanks so much for listening again to the records. I’ve hardly listened to any of the cycle, as I said I’ve just dipped randomly here and there.

But your post did inspire me to listen again to Buxwv 150, from Foccroulle and from others. I think what I liked most about Focroulle’s recording is the dark, rapt and almost sombre way he plays the opining prelude and the first fugue. And I also like the way that the registration changes are so subtle. It’s quite a contrast from Harald Vogel’s record, which has marvellous sweep and unity, coherence. Vogel is so bright by comparison, and his registration change for the first fugue is so dramatic (inorganic?) I like what Vogel does in the first half of Bwv 150, but I like  the inwardness of Foccroulle at least as much.

Another recording of it which I loved was Bryndorf’s. The little non-fugal passage  which comes straight after the first fugue, and which acts rather like a prelude to what follows, is just glorious, magical, in Bryndorf’s hands. And the fugues which follow it have a real brio and éclat which I find totally irresistible. That’s one thing I really miss from Foccroulle’s, who by comparison is a bit drab in the final fugues, I think.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 13, 2012, 01:13:50 PM
I took the time to explore some new Buxtehude recordings, but i think i still like Saorgin best.

I wish more ensembles would take up on his cantatas, don't really like Koopman. :(

Thanks for mentioning Saorgin. I just sampled Buxwv 150 and I'm really positive. I like the slow and noble pace of the first fugue, the dramatic way he plays the transition from the first to the second, and the spontaneity of the final fugue. This is interesting music making and I'm looking forward to delving a bit further.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on March 13, 2012, 01:49:28 PM
Foccroulle plays Buxtehude BuxWV 155 Toccata in d-moll.
This Schnitger organ of Norden is a beauty!

Btw: watch the 'genuine HIP' ;) coupling action at 6:18 (shove-coupler)!

http://www.youtube.com/v/gjHkzqSOxnw
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on April 12, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
I've got a handful of questions about Buxtehude which I thought I'd just post, just in case someone can come up with answers.

First, where can I get a list of works by date of composition? For example, I notice that the BuxWV numbering just groups pieces by genre, and them alphabetically. I want to get a grip on his musical development.

I was thinking of buying Kerala Snyder's book on Buxtehude, but it's quite expensive. Is that the best one just for finding out about his life, philosophical ideas and reception history? I'm not a musicologist and I'm not really interested in analysis.

And finally, one little piece that really has gotten under my skin is Vogel's performance of BuxWV 146, a wonderful prelude which Vogel plays so delicately and spiritually, on a bright but gorgeous and intimate organ in Langwarden. If anyone knows any more performances like this, or other records on the Langwarden organ, let me know please!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on April 13, 2012, 03:34:40 AM
Considering the chronology of the organ works: I do not know of a list by date of composition. But I do know that none of these works were printed during Buxtehude's life, and that many copies were made after his death. This means it's very difficult to make such a list.

Considering Snyder's monography: it's about 500 to 600 pages, isn't it? My guess is you will find lots of interesting information .... and a lot of analysis. Just buy it, go to the beach upcoming summer and read it! ;D

Considering Langwarden: very rarely recorded, I think. There is a vinyl series called Das Orgelportrait - Frisische Orgelpracht - Historische Orgeln in Friesland und Oldenburg with organist Wilhelm Krumbach, but I doubt if it's ever been re-issued on cd.
In most cases, discs like these are issued in small amounts by local or regional foundations for ancient monuments and/or organs (mostly to raise some money for restorations and such) and after they are sold out .... it's all over.

EDIT: here's a disc with a.o. the Langwarden organ. Johannes Kaußler plays some pieces from the Susanne van Soldt manuscript, late 16th century.

http://www.amazon.de/CD-Orgellandschaften-Vol-N%C3%B6rdlichen-Oldenburger/dp/B00630LOLU/
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 13, 2012, 03:53:51 AM
Considering the chronology of the organ works: I do not know of a list by date of composition. But I do know that none of these works were printed during Buxtehude's life, and that many copies were made after his death. This means it's very difficult to make such a list.

Thanks for this, Marc . . . I was rather imagining a case (or a life) where dating the oeuvre would be problematic.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Josquin des Prez on April 13, 2012, 06:25:34 AM
The only works of Buxtehude i know that can be dated with any certainty are his last masses, of which none survives. And that's that i guess. However, considering the music Bach wrote while under the influence of the late Buxtehude its probably safe to assume his style hadn't changed much.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on April 13, 2012, 07:00:07 AM
I've read somewhere (I just can't remember where) that the D minor Pasacaglia and the Prelude BuxWV 153   are late works -- I think that was what made me start thinking that I need to understand something about his musical evolution.

I guess you're suggesting that that's dubious.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on April 13, 2012, 07:38:06 AM
I've read somewhere (I just can't remember where) that the D minor Pasacaglia and the Prelude BuxWV 153   are late works -- I think that was what made me start thinking that I need to understand something about his musical evolution.

I guess you're suggesting that that's dubious.

I can't suggest anything really, not even something dubious. ;)
I think you'd have to check Snyder's 'Buxtehude Bible'.
There is a chapter called Toward a chronology of Buxtehude's Music.

I hope these links will work for you. They might be helpful.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Dieterich_Buxtehude.html?id=qSXGOoambNcC

http://books.google.com/books?id=qSXGOoambNcC&printsec=frontcover&hl=en
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: 71 dB on April 13, 2012, 08:55:56 AM
I wish more ensembles would take up on his cantatas, don't really like Koopman. :(

6 Cantatas - Orchestra Anima Eterna/Collegium Vocale/Jos van Immerseel - Channel Classics is my favorite Buxtehude cantata disc.



Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on April 13, 2012, 10:28:45 AM
6 Cantatas - Orchestra Anima Eterna/Collegium Vocale/Jos van Immerseel - Channel Classics is my favorite Buxtehude cantata disc.



Good choice indeed.

Other possibilities (we're getting more off-topic, plz don't punish me), though I dunno all of them: Naxos discs by Holloway, Kirkby et al (Vocal Music, Vols 1-2), Naxos disc with cantatas by the Aradia Ensemble, Cantatas by the Ricercar Consort, Cantatas by Cantus Cölln and Scandinavian Cantatas by the Theatre of Voices with Paul Hillier. The latter with some organ works played by Bine Katrine Bryndorf!

Ha! Back to topic! ;D

(http://i39.tinypic.com/am2wpv.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Scandinavian-Cantatas-Buxtehude/dp/B00442M0QW/
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on April 13, 2012, 10:29:41 AM
I can't suggest anything really, not even something dubious. ;)
I think you'd have to check Snyder's 'Buxtehude Bible'.
There is a chapter called Toward a chronology of Buxtehude's Music.

I hope these links will work for you. They might be helpful.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Dieterich_Buxtehude.html?id=qSXGOoambNcC

http://books.google.com/books?id=qSXGOoambNcC&printsec=frontcover&hl=en

Ordered (I found a cheap copy on ebay.) I'll post if there's anything revealing in it.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on April 13, 2012, 10:30:49 AM
Ordered (I found a cheap copy on ebay.) I'll post if there's anything revealing in it.

Congrats! :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 13, 2012, 10:44:20 AM
6 Cantatas - Orchestra Anima Eterna/Collegium Vocale/Jos van Immerseel - Channel Classics is my favorite Buxtehude cantata disc.


Well done, Poju!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on April 15, 2012, 05:40:42 AM
I've been  listening to performances of Buxwv 188, a big chorale (Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ.)

Anyway one interesting record is Walter Kraft's, because of the sweep of it. It's as if he bites off the whole chorale in one piece. There are no seams. In this respect, he reminds me of Walter Gieseking  -- Gieseking can do that sometimes, in Ravel's Pavene and the pre-war Gaspard de la Nuit  for example.

Another place where I was struck by this sweep quality of Kraft's art is in the Bach chorale  BWV 676.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on April 17, 2012, 07:28:00 AM
In Gilles Cantagrel’s  book on Buxtehude, there’s this chronology of organ music

First period (up to 1673): BuxWV 143, 144, 150, 152, 158, 156, 204.

Second period (before 1683): BuxWV 137, 138, 148, 157, 212, 213, 

Final  period:  BuxWV 139, 140, 141, 142, 145, 146, 149, 151, 155, 156, 203, 159, 160

The dates are deduced partly from what we know about the temperaments of the organs he used – changes in temperament led to changes to his music.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on April 25, 2012, 10:34:06 AM
In Gilles Cantagrel’s  book on Buxtehude, there’s this chronology of organ music

The dates are deduced partly from what we know about the temperaments of the organs he used – changes in temperament led to changes to his music.

I am not sure that this is a valid consideration, or at least it can not stand alone. Remember the many chromatic pieces by some baroque composers before Buxtehude, meant to be played on meantone tuned organs, using the unequal tuning for expressive purposes. I favour the theory, that Buxtehude´s music from a formal point of view, not necessary from a tonal point of view, became more complicated with time.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on April 25, 2012, 10:55:38 AM
Anyway one interesting record is Walter Kraft's, because of the sweep of it. It's as if he bites off the whole chorale in one piece. There are no seams. In this respect, he reminds me of Walter Gieseking  -- Gieseking can do that sometimes, in Ravel's Pavene and the pre-war Gaspard de la Nuit  for example.

Another place where I was struck by this sweep quality of Kraft's art is in the Bach chorale  BWV 676.

This "sweep" is IMO a good description of a central component of the "Kraft-effect", which made his playing so vital and impressive. I may BTW be biased, as some of the first Buxtehude I ever heard was at some Kraft-recitals in Copenhagen, f.i. BuxWV 150 (g-minor prelude) and BuxWV 155 (d-minor toccata). Even if I did not know the pieces beforehand I still remember this "sweep" and many details of the performances.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Antoine Marchand on April 25, 2012, 07:24:08 PM
Good choice indeed.

Other possibilities (we're getting more off-topic, plz don't punish me), though I dunno all of them: Naxos discs by Holloway, Kirkby et al (Vocal Music, Vols 1-2), Naxos disc with cantatas by the Aradia Ensemble, Cantatas by the Ricercar Consort, Cantatas by Cantus Cölln and Scandinavian Cantatas by the Theatre of Voices with Paul Hillier. The latter with some organ works played by Bine Katrine Bryndorf!

Ha! Back to topic! ;D

(http://i39.tinypic.com/am2wpv.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Scandinavian-Cantatas-Buxtehude/dp/B00442M0QW/

I guess you're not very fond of Koopman, Marc, but I think he should be considered too. Actually, he has recorded what I believe it's the larger amount of Buxtehude's cantatas in existence. Quantity considerations aside, I have been listening to some vocal music directed by Koopman (via NML) and it sounds very enticing, indeed. I even ordered from Amazon Italy all the five volumes of vocal music recorded on Challenge so far, IMO the best part of his recordings devoted to Buxtehude. 

:)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on April 26, 2012, 11:32:19 AM
I guess you're not very fond of Koopman, Marc, but I think he should be considered too. Actually, he has recorded what I believe it's the larger amount of Buxtehude's cantatas in existence. Quantity considerations aside, I have been listening to some vocal music directed by Koopman (via NML) and it sounds very enticing, indeed. [....]

I wasn't judging about mr. Marchand ;), just reacting to a post from someone else who did not really like Koopman and seemed to be searching for something else:

[....]
I wish more ensembles would take up on his cantatas, don't really like Koopman. :(

I dunno much myself about Koopman's efforts in Bux; I only have one disc with organ works from his Novalis period and I think it's all right, although he's probably not my first choice.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/dp8u86.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Buxtehude-Organ-Works-Dietrich/dp/B000001MPP

Combined with my 'knowledge' about organist/harpsichordist Koopman in Bach, I would say that I sometimes feel that he's almost too 'fantastic' in the 'stile fantastico'.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on April 26, 2012, 11:47:09 AM
Here's a couple of CD's I found on spotify which I've been playing a bit

(http://cdn.classicsonline.com/images/cds/others/ES2011.gif) (http://image.allmusic.com/00/acg/cov200/cm800/m873/m87343b4an2.jpg)

The Uwe Druzella record has a Magnificat primi toni, BuxWV 203 which I like a lot (I'm trying to explore the Chorale Fantasies, and this BuxWV 203 seems to stand out from the crowd a bit); I'm less sure that I can really single out anything special from the Suzuki CD, but it's not unpleasant and quite distinctive, and it's early days yet for me to draw any conclusions about it. But I'd say both are worth a listen, especially if you have spotify .

Vernet's Buxtehude records are also on spotify, and some of the performances there have caught my attention as being interesting -- BuxWV 210 for example, which is kind of rapt and hushed. I also liked his BuxWV 194 (They're all  chorale fantasies.)

Unfortnately Rubsam's Naxos CD isn't on spotify but it's well worth hearing I think, not least for the Te Deum Laudamus.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Antoine Marchand on April 27, 2012, 04:33:04 PM
I wasn't judging about mr. Marchand ;), just reacting to a post from someone else who did not really like Koopman and seemed to be searching for something else:

I dunno much myself about Koopman's efforts in Bux; I only have one disc with organ works from his Novalis period and I think it's all right, although he's probably not my first choice.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/dp8u86.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Buxtehude-Organ-Works-Dietrich/dp/B000001MPP

Combined with my 'knowledge' about organist/harpsichordist Koopman in Bach, I would say that I sometimes feel that he's almost too 'fantastic' in the 'stile fantastico'.

Sorry, I didn't read the JdP's post before reading your post.  :)

I'm not specially interested in the solo or instrumental music part of Koopman's series. Frequently, I have  experienced his organ and harpsichord recordings as too much "imaginative" to my taste (with remarkable exceptions as his Leipzig chorales or his French Suites). But, on the contrary, I generally enjoy his attempts on vocal music. Actually, these days I have started his recordings of Buxtehude's vocal music, with the vol. 1 Das jüngste Gericht, BuxWV Anh 3 "Wacht! Euch zum Streit gefasset macht", an oratorio of dubious authenticity, but highly enjoyable in this recordings. All the voices and instrumentalists are excellent and my only criticism could be regarding certain "extroverted" character of the performances that I don't  always relate easily to Buxtehude. Maybe (but just maybe) it would be desirable some accent on the intimacy of the performances and some cut in the number of the members of the chorus, to eliminate some fat.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on June 06, 2012, 09:31:46 AM
(Posted this also a few minutes ago in the 'what are you listening to' thread):

Now listening to:

Buxtehude: Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin BuxWV 76.

Version for soprano, bass & organ.
In most cases only played on the organ, which is already a treat.
The contributions of soprano Anna Jobrandt and bass Jan Börjesson are certainly adding to the 'Nunc dimittis' atmosphere.

Tracks can be found on disc 7 of Hans Davidsson's integral of Buxtehude's organ works.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/ev5m6e.jpg)

Some info about this interesting project:

http://www.gothic-catalog.com/Buxtehude_Organ_Works_The_Complete_Collection_p/box-buxtehude.htm
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Sammy on June 06, 2012, 10:34:57 AM
Unfortnately Rubsam's Naxos CD isn't on spotify but it's well worth hearing I think, not least for the Te Deum Laudamus.

Based on my view of Rubsam's Bach organ series as being wonderfully strong and severe, I was greatly looking forward to his Buxtehude disc when it first came out a few years ago.  Unfortunately, although a fine disc, I didn't find it distinctive in comparison with other Buxtehude organ discs I know.  So yes, well worth hearing, but not a must IMHO.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on June 06, 2012, 12:08:06 PM
Now listening to:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/ev5m6e.jpg)

I acquired vol. one some months ago, and despite the interesting organ project I found Davisson´s playing a bit lethargic and lacking in musical tension, which is so vital for the choral-free works. So I have not acquired vol. two nor three. A second listening is planned.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on June 06, 2012, 07:04:23 PM
Yes, so far Davidsson is not interfering in my favourite Bux organ integrals faves (Vogel [severe] and Spang-Hanssen [flexible HIP-py]). But I do consider him a solid interpreter. And the Göteborg organ is a nice sounding modern baroque instrument. So, in the end, I'm very happy with this purchase. :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on October 30, 2012, 12:07:57 PM
Now listening to this live recital from 1982 ....

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2qvf2p0.jpg)

.... and getting very nervous. If I'm not mistaken, Lena Jacobson was/is considered quite authorative when baroque rhetorics are concerned, but her style of playing is utterly confusing to me. She's almost making me believe that Buxtehude suffered from schizophrenia and was not able to complete even just one musical thought.

:(

The Huss/Schnitger organ (of the Sankt Cosmae Kirche in Stade) is a beautiful instrument though.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 30, 2012, 12:59:58 PM
Now listening to this live recital from 1982 ....

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2qvf2p0.jpg)

.... and getting very nervous. If I'm not mistaken, Lena Jacobson was/is considered quite authorative when baroque rhetorics are concerned, but her style of playing is utterly confusing to me. She's almost making me believe that Buxtehude suffered from schizophrenia and was not able to complete even just one musical thought.

Lena Jacobson is still very active:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lena+jacobson&oq=lena+jacobson&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12..0.2749.6450.0.11863.13.10.0.3.3.0.181.1219.3j7.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.3gdzsagobno

Well, I think this recording reveals some interesting ideas about agogics on her part, even if she overstates the point. Her added conclusion to the g-minor prelude is shocking effective, whether you like it or not.
Wolfgang Rübsam´s  Buxtehude recordings from the early 1980es are in between "marred" with some similar agogics, if a little less exaggerated, e.g. in the Choral fantasia Nun freut euch, lieben Christen g´mein.

I suppose you have read Rodrigo de Sá ´s review at Amazon.com:

"Lena Jacobson does not play Buxtehude - she uses his scores as a bases for an improvisation.

The scores are used as if they were rhythmically blank - like the Preludes Non Mesures of the harpsichord French School. In one of the g minor preludes she adds an ending, when I think it is completely spurious: the final chords and pedal upward movement are final and anything added just spoils the music.

I am not exaggerating one bit: the notes are there, the rhythm is not, and the rubato is so exaggerated as to transform a crotchet into a medieval brevis. All the rest comes afterwards, regardless of note values, as small note values.

It is almost unbelievable.

If you want to listen to Jacobson rather than Buxtehude, this is your chance."
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on October 30, 2012, 01:02:38 PM
The scores are used as if they were rhythmically blank - like the Preludes Non Mesures of the harpsichord French School. In one of the g minor preludes she adds an ending, when I think it is completely spurious: the final chords and pedal upward movement are final and anything added just spoils the music.

I am not exaggerating one bit: the notes are there, the rhythm is not, and the rubato is so exaggerated as to transform a crotchet into a medieval brevis. All the rest comes afterwards, regardless of note values, as small note values.

It is almost unbelievable.

If you want to listen to Jacobson rather than Buxtehude, this is your chance."[/i]

RUN! :o :o
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on October 30, 2012, 01:12:06 PM
RUN! :o :o

Well, I do not agree completely with the review I quoted. Listen to some of her playing on you tube and judge for yourself.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on October 30, 2012, 08:01:01 PM
Lena Jacobson is still very active:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lena+jacobson&oq=lena+jacobson&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12..0.2749.6450.0.11863.13.10.0.3.3.0.181.1219.3j7.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.3gdzsagobno

Well, I think this recording reveals some interesting ideas about agogics on her part, even if she overstates the point. Her added conclusion to the g-minor prelude is shocking effective, whether you like it or not.
Wolfgang Rübsam´s  Buxtehude recordings from the early 1980es are in between "marred" with some similar agogics, if a little less exaggerated, e.g. in the Choral fantasia Nun freut euch, lieben Christen g´mein.

I suppose you have read Rodrigo de Sá ´s review at Amazon.com:

"Lena Jacobson does not play Buxtehude - she uses his scores as a bases for an improvisation.

The scores are used as if they were rhythmically blank - like the Preludes Non Mesures of the harpsichord French School. In one of the g minor preludes she adds an ending, when I think it is completely spurious: the final chords and pedal upward movement are final and anything added just spoils the music.

I am not exaggerating one bit: the notes are there, the rhythm is not, and the rubato is so exaggerated as to transform a crotchet into a medieval brevis. All the rest comes afterwards, regardless of note values, as small note values.

It is almost unbelievable.

If you want to listen to Jacobson rather than Buxtehude, this is your chance."


Rodrigo .... that's a familiar name. ;)

Well, I certainly understand his opinion, but I don't agree about the improvisation part. IMO, Jacobson's playing is far too 'studied' and not sounding as spontaneous as improvisations should be.

Of course, it's interesting to take notice of these interpretations, but, whilst listening, I lost each and every view of the architecture of the pieces. You mentioned Rübsam's early Buxtehude recordings, which I do not know, but indeed I thought about him because of some similarities with his Bach Naxos cycle, but, compared to Jacobson, Rübsam doesn't really ruin the continuity that much. I learned to appreciate his (Naxos) Bach, yet I doubt if I will be able to do so with Jacobson's Buxtehude.

But let's not give up hope yet. :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 09, 2013, 11:50:51 AM
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/22/227229.JPG)

Lena Jacobson recorded a toccata and a couple of canzonas on this CD. The performances really made me style -- there's comedy there. The jumpy breathless staccato in one of the voices  in 167, and the irreverential energy of 164. I especially like the contrasting articulation of the opening subject and the other voices in 167.  Is that what she was about d you think? Buxtehude party style. This makes me even keener to read her paper on Buxtehude's rhetoric, but I can't get hold of it.

Why did Buxtehude compose this music?  I mean, when would it have been used?

By the way, I'm listening on spotify where they attribute a CPE Bach sonata to her. That's a mistake, right? Sure doesn't sound like her, my guess is it must be Hans Fagius.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Richard on January 12, 2016, 05:10:28 AM
Does anyone have experience with Bryndorf's traversal through the Buxtehude Organ catalogue?

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2016, 05:29:33 AM
Does anyone have experience with Bryndorf's traversal through the Buxtehude Organ catalogue?



Rather odd that Amazon files this thus:

Quote
CDs & Vinyl  ›  New Age  ›  Instrumental
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: kishnevi on January 13, 2016, 05:52:52 PM
This was posted on the "Considering" thread, without response, by Richard.
I am also curious about it.  Anyone ready to give an opinion?

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: kishnevi on January 15, 2016, 04:58:42 PM
Does anyone have experience with Bryndorf's traversal through the Buxtehude Organ catalogue?



Bump.
Anyone out there?  (I too am interested in this one.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 16, 2016, 01:40:40 PM
Bump.
Anyone out there?  (I too am interested in this one.)

She is reliable, solid but not stodgy, a bit safe in the approach. Interesting organs. Recorded sound very good.

Not my first choice though but maybe no. 4 (after Vogel, Kraft and Spang-Hanssen).
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Gordo on January 16, 2016, 02:52:25 PM
She is reliable, solid but not stodgy, a bit safe in the approach. Interesting organs. Recorded sound very good.

Not my first choice though but maybe no. 4 (after Vogel, Kraft and Spang-Hanssen).

Exactly my mental order of these recordings, although sometimes Spang-Hanssen is tied to Kraft. I have considered the Vernet's integral several times, but it's still pending.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 16, 2016, 04:25:16 PM
Exactly my mental order of these recordings, although sometimes Spang-Hanssen is tied to Kraft. I have considered the Vernet's integral several times, but it's still pending.

The same with me, incidentally (Kraft/Spang-Hanssen).

Unless you are a hardcore Vernet completist (yes - I agree, that his Bach integral asks for more), I would consider at least Saorgin, Herrick, Davidsson, Ablitzer and Bryndorf (this time the order is casual) before Vernet.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Gordo on January 16, 2016, 08:40:54 PM
Unless you are a hardcore Vernet completist (yes - I agree, that his Bach integral asks for more), I would consider at least Saorgin, Herrick, Davidsson, Ablitzer and Bryndorf (this time the order is casual) before Vernet.

It's good to know. For some reason those disks devoted to Buxtehude aren't available through streaming or via YouTube; but on the basis of his other disks (particularly his Bach, Mendelssohn and Schumann), I thought they could be interesting...

Random question: I have seen a single disk by Stockmeier, do you know  how much Buxtehude he recorded?
 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Sammy on January 16, 2016, 08:57:27 PM
She is reliable, solid but not stodgy, a bit safe in the approach. Interesting organs. Recorded sound very good.

I'll just add that Bryndorf's performances are quite majestic and celebratory; those who prefer a solemn approach to the chorales are advised to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 17, 2016, 12:08:42 AM
I'll just add that Bryndorf's performances are quite majestic and celebratory; those who prefer a solemn approach to the chorales are advised to look elsewhere.

I prefer a more solemn approach to the preludes too! Gordo mentioned Davidsson's a couple of weeks ago and I've been really enjoying all of it.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 04:24:35 AM
Random question: I have seen a single disk by Stockmeier, do you know  how much Buxtehude he recorded?

A propos Wolfgang Stockmeier, he died 11.12.2015, aged 83.

RIP.

Where did you see the BuxtehudeCD? I have never come across a BuxtehudeCD by him, and it is not mentioned in this obituary;

http://www.godsjukebox.com/Rest_In_Peace/wolfgang-stockmeier-organ-buxtehude-prelude-and-fugue-in-e-minor-buxwv-142/

But there is on YouTube this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oayTmmL9xJc
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Gordo on January 17, 2016, 05:25:56 AM
A propos Wolfgang Stockmeier, he died 11.12.2015, aged 83.

RIP.

Where did you see the BuxtehudeCD? I have never come across a BuxtehudeCD by him, and it is not mentioned in this obituary;

http://www.godsjukebox.com/Rest_In_Peace/wolfgang-stockmeier-organ-buxtehude-prelude-and-fugue-in-e-minor-buxwv-142/

But there is on YouTube this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oayTmmL9xJc

2015 had still saved a sad news. He is/was one of the less self-centred organists that I have listened to play Bach music. May his soul rest in peace.

About Buxtehude: it was just a mistake of mine. Seeing that utterly clean interpretation on YouTube, I thought it came from a commercial recording.   
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Jo498 on January 17, 2016, 05:49:56 AM
I have 3 separate discs (supposedly Volumes 1,3,5) of Buxtehude organ music with Jean Ablitzer. Was that series ever completed? Amazon does list 5 Vols. but most are unavaiblable (and all are expensive).
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 06:11:12 AM
I have 3 separate discs (supposedly Volumes 1,3,5) of Buxtehude organ music with Jean Ablitzer. Was that series ever completed? Amazon does list 5 Vols. but most are unavaiblable (and all are expensive).

Yes, it was completed, and the final (sixth) CD was, as far as I know, never released, but it can be acquired (downloaded) here:

http://harmonicclassics.com/album/H_CD_9036/
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Madiel on January 17, 2016, 06:12:23 AM
 
I have 3 separate discs (supposedly Volumes 1,3,5) of Buxtehude organ music with Jean Ablitzer. Was that series ever completed? Amazon does list 5 Vols. but most are unavaiblable (and all are expensive).

This shows volume 6, plus what appears to be a separate piece, plus something that looks like it's the complete set.

http://harmonicclassics.com/albums/ORGUE/
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 06:18:19 AM
About Buxtehude: it was just a mistake of mine. Seeing that utterly clean interpretation on YouTube, I thought it came from a commercial recording.

And it is indeed a clean interpretation, reminding me a bit of Walter Kraft, but less passionate and a bit dragging in the concluding fugue.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Jo498 on January 17, 2016, 06:29:01 AM
thanks, I actually remember now that when I bought those discs maybe 5 years ago the series was going oop and someone pointed out to the download option for the last disc. Back then I was not so fond of organ music so 3 discs seemed sufficient for an overview. (I had the Spang-Hansen on my list forever without ever getting around to buy it, despite it usually being cheap...)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Gordo on January 17, 2016, 06:32:20 AM
And it is indeed a clean interpretation, reminding me a bit of Walter Kraft, but less passionate and a bit dragging in the concluding fugue.

Yes, they share certain, I'd say, friendly asceticism, if this means something; very uplifting and more friendly in Stockmeier than in Kraft.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Gordo on January 17, 2016, 06:37:48 AM
thanks, I actually remember now that when I bought those discs maybe 5 years ago the series was going oop and someone pointed out to the download option for the last disc.

I recall Que, a big Ablitzer's fan, avidly searching for the last volume of this series some years ago...
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 07:11:14 AM
Yes, they share certain, I'd say, friendly asceticism, if this means something; very uplifting and more friendly in Stockmeier than in Kraft.

Surely, but I find Kraft the more Buxtehude-idiomatic of the two.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Madiel on January 17, 2016, 07:13:51 AM
I'm mildly Buxtehude-curious now, simply because I stumbled across his church in Helsingør. They had CDs for sale at the church, not surprisingly, but I didn't purchase one at the time.

I was really there to visit Hamlet's castle...
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on January 17, 2016, 08:08:39 AM
I have 3 separate discs (supposedly Volumes 1,3,5) of Buxtehude organ music with Jean Ablitzer. Was that series ever completed? Amazon does list 5 Vols. but most are unavaiblable (and all are expensive).


This shows volume 6, plus what appears to be a separate piece, plus something that looks like it's the complete set.

http://harmonicclassics.com/albums/ORGUE/

I recall Que, a big Ablitzer's fan, avidly searching for the last volume of this series some years ago...

I am definitely an Ablitzer fan, his Buxtehude is some of the best he did. Still my first choice, pity that it is not available as a set.
Volume 6, which completes the series, was recorded but never issued. I ordered my copy per email from the website premont mentioned as a CD-R with a colour printed booklet.

So have been a happy camper witb a complete Ablitzer cycle for many years now.  :)

Has Koopman any fans, I wonder? ::)

Q

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 17, 2016, 09:53:01 AM


Has Koopman any fans, I wonder? ::)

Q

Yes for the two volumes of harpsichord music, esp v2. Playful and flashy, twinkle in the eye. If you like Koopman's  Sweelink you'll appreciate his harpsichord Buxtehude.

And there's one of the organ volumes which collects together earlier pieces by Bux, before he was 50.  The organ is fabulous, and the style seemed just right, straightforward and virtuosic. Maybe not the greatest music (though the famous Passacaglia is in there.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 10:35:03 AM
Yes for the two volumes of harpsichord music, esp v2. Playful and flashy, twinkle in the eye. If you like Koopman's  Sweelink you'll appreciate his harpsichord Buxtehude.

Koopman does considerably more for me in the harpsichord works than in the organ works. Could it be because the competition is less strong?

Quote from: Mandryka
And there's one of the organ volumes which collects together earlier pieces by Bux, before he was 50.  The organ is fabulous, and the style seemed just right, straightforward and virtuosic. Maybe not the greatest music (though the famous Passacaglia is in there.)

Vol.2 ? Or do you think of the single Novalis recording on the Norden organ?

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 17, 2016, 10:53:51 AM


Vol.2 ?

Yes Vol 2 on the wonderful Wilde/Schnitger, Lüdingworth
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 17, 2016, 01:05:10 PM
[

[/quote]

Koopman does considerably more for me in the harpsichord works than in the organ works. Could it be because the competition is less strong?



I think that if I had to choose between Alessandrini and Koopman, I'd probably choose Alessandrini, just because I like expressive rapt music making.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 02:51:59 PM
I think that if I had to choose between Alessandrini and Koopman, I'd probably choose Alessandrini, just because I like expressive rapt music making.

I too, and I would also generally choose Stella before Koopman.

My statement that Koopman does more for me in the harpsichord works, was ment to reflex how little he does for me in the organ works, except maybe in vol. 2, which I do not recall separately now. Well, a relisten is needed.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 02:59:37 PM
I'm mildly Buxtehude-curious now, simply because I stumbled across his church in Helsingør. They had CDs for sale at the church, not surprisingly, but I didn't purchase one at the time.

I was really there to visit Hamlet's castle...

The organ of Mariakirken, Helsingør has been used for several recordings, first and foremost for music by Buxtehude of course.

This thread contains many recommendations concerning his organ music. My suggestions for a relative newcomer to Buxtehude are Ulrik Spang-Hanssen's set of 6 CDs. They can be had very cheap.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: kishnevi on January 17, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
The organ of Mariakirken, Helsingør has been used for several recordings, first and foremost for music by Buxtehude of course.

This thread contains many recommendations concerning his organ music. My suggestions for a relative newcomer to Buxtehude are Ulrik Spang-Hanssen's set of 6 CDs. They can be had very cheap.

Yes, thanks, that is who I will probably get.
But I intend to let the current pile of unheard CDs diminish a bit more.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 17, 2016, 03:13:39 PM
I have the Spang-Hanssen, and can vouch for it, as well.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Richard on January 17, 2016, 03:41:18 PM
She is reliable, solid but not stodgy, a bit safe in the approach. Interesting organs. Recorded sound very good.


I'll just add that Bryndorf's performances are quite majestic and celebratory; those who prefer a solemn approach to the chorales are advised to look elsewhere.


Thanks for all the feedback. I found the box in store for a pretty remarkable price. I'm currently listening to Disc 1.

"Solid" and "Majestic" are, I think, good descriptions.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 03:46:57 PM
But I intend to let the current pile of unheard CDs diminish a bit more.

Wise decision.

I wish I possessed your degree of self-control.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: kishnevi on January 17, 2016, 05:36:19 PM
Wise decision.

I wish I possessed your degree of self-control.

I do this now because I had no self control in early December.   I have five box sets unheard, each with 50-60 CDs,  five more with 20-30 CDs, and a small bevy of smaller box sets. Not to mention the box of Boulez's Erato recordings currently on its way to me.

Hmm, in fact, a 6 CD set would barely be noticed.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 18, 2016, 09:23:09 AM
What's the point of Buxtehude's preludes?

I've just been listening to Davidsson play Buxwv 146, the G minor, with this commentary by Davidsson, in mind

Quote from: Hans Davidsson in "Buxtehude and Bach in Lübeck 1705: A Discussion on Registration ..."  http://www.gothic-catalog.com/articles.asp?id=134
However, this experiment inspired me to explore this key further and to develop the inventio into a Lamento, and I had a particular program in mind: Christ’s Maundy Thursday drama. The whole work is characterized by the ambivalent fluctuation between melancholy and despair, and it is only in the last part, after the recitative, that the Affekt gradually changes and approaches a sense of balance or perhaps even moderate joy. It musically renders the spiritual drama and conflict that Our Savior encountered in Gethsemane. The final chord of the recitative – a long and harsh c-sharp minor–represents the point of change, when Jesus fully understands the will of His Father and accepts the suffering ahead of him, and the final chord of the piece, the f-sharp major chord renders the peace brought to his mind, and to our world, when he confirms his consent to his sacrifice.

The "I" is referring to Bux.

Davidsson's performance does seem to reflect this programme, I'd be interested to know whether others do, or whether others are based on a different attitude towards the music.

By the way I also listened to Kraft playing it and was struck by the force-of-nature quality of it.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 18, 2016, 11:12:32 AM
What's the point of Buxtehude's preludes?

I've just been listening to Davidsson play Buxwv 146, the G minor, with this commentary by Davidsson, in mind

The "I" is referring to Bux.

Davidsson's performance does seem to reflect this programme, I'd be interested to know whether others do, or whether others are based on a different attitude towards the music.

By the way I also listened to Kraft playing it and was struck by the force-of-nature quality of it.

I much prefer Kraft's version of this piece to Davidsson's.

And I think Davidsson's "exegesis" drives the point a bit too far. I respect him for his playing, but as with Pickett's "exegesis" of the Brandenburg concertos, these speculative conjectural pseudoelucidations do not increase the musical experience for me.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 18, 2016, 01:12:14 PM
Here's another one

Quote
I developed this idea for Epiphany [in Buxwv 151] with arpeggios in recitative style and sequential patterns with rotating figures to illustrate the powerful and guiding light of the Bethlehem star, and the imitation sections to illustrate the wise men’s walk toward the star and the child in the manger.

Cortot used to tell  stories like that about Chopin nocturnes, and there's a famous article in the same vein by Maria Yudina on late Brahms. I just find it interesting that informed musicians should seem to be playing a (prima facie) similar game for music which doesn't seem to be associated with a text. Not just Davidsson here, but also Egarr in the English Suites, Cera in the French Suites, Harnoncourt for Mozart symphonies.

At least I can hear (I think) Davidsson's story about the G minor prelude in the performance, I can't here Pickett's ideas in Brandenburg 6 at all. The disconcerting thing is that Davidsson's a real scholar; I don't think Pickett was.

( Kraft once again impressive in Buxwv 151, great sweep. I don't care for Davidsson at all in that one.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 18, 2016, 02:50:28 PM

I can't here Pickett's ideas in Brandenburg 6 at all. The disconcerting thing is that Davidsson's a real scholar; I don't think Pickett was.


I hope Pickett is even if he may not be a scholar. But unfortunately his recording career has been cut short.

Quote from Wiki :

On 10 February 2015 Pickett was found guilty of two rapes and two indecent assaults carried out in soundproof rooms at the Guildhall School between 1979 and 1983. After his conviction, Pickett’s defence team tried to delay sentencing to accommodate Pickett’s commitment to arrange three music festivals.[4] Judge Charles Wide sentenced Pickett on 20 February 2015 to a total of 11 years,[1] and ordered that two further indictments in relation to allegations by two women dating back to the 1970s lie on file. Pickett was cleared of six further counts of indecent assault.[4][6]
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 19, 2016, 10:17:07 AM
Oh yes, I forgot he was tarnished by the Jimmy Savile affair. What a terrible business that was.

I must say I'm finding Davidsson's notes on the Gothic website really inspiring, and it's helped me to listen to the music more attentively than ever before. I feel as though I'm really appreciating the music for the first time.

How can anyone resist this? I certainly can't - I mean the dancing snake!!!

Quote
It is possible that Buxtehude’s musical imagination [in Buxwv 149] portrays the fall of mankind and in this sense the biblical story of the creation. The bass theme of the opening ostinato section is incomplete, open-ended (does not end on the tonic) and does not appear seven but six times, as many times as there were days in the creation. In place of a seventh statement, the theme is developed in four parts fugally, artfully and in full harmony over the whole compass of the keyboard, but ends with an organ point in the treble using dissonant suspensions but without a final cadence. Dissonant modulations express the temptation and finally the tasting of the apple. The Allegro section with the running and jumping bass expresses the joy and the dance of the snake, and the following and elaborate fuga patetica (falling and expanding intervals – third, tritone and minor sixth – literally depict “the fall”) the regret and despair of the world waiting for the final resolution and salvation. The piece ends without a real dominant-tonic cadence in root position, and the ostinato in C minor creates a strong plagal character because of its length and an expectation of continuation. The final chord with the major third in the treble also contributes to this impression. It is the only chord of this kind in any of the preludes. The ostinato of the end and of the beginning adds a cyclical dimension to the work, although with its open-ended character it gives the impression of having no beginning and no end. The fall of mankind charged the creation with sin and the Affekt of suffering and Buxtehude’s Praeludium may be heard as a musical rendering of this condition, and its demand for resolution and continued creation toward completion. There are no indications for the use of the pedal in the Lindeman tablature. I chose to play the whole Allegro section (measures 55-77) with pedal although this may represent more of an eighteenth-century approach (Agricola in his copy suggested pedal for measures 68-77), but it also gives a quite effective and exciting rendering of the snake’s triumphant dance.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 20, 2016, 09:53:31 AM
Oh yes, I forgot he was tarnished by the Jimmy Savile affair. What a terrible business that was.

I must say I'm finding Davidsson's notes on the Gothic website really inspiring, and it's helped me to listen to the music more attentively than ever before. I feel as though I'm really appreciating the music for the first time.

How can anyone resist this? I certainly can't - I mean the dancing snake!!!

So Davidsson thinks the BuxWV 149 depicts the fall of man and makes it kind of pendant to Kuhnau´s biblical sonatas. A charming exegesis, which can be enjoyed as such, but as I wrote above: It does not increase my listening experience with this work.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 20, 2016, 10:38:33 AM
So Davidsson thinks the BuxWV 149 depicts the fall of man and makes it kind of pendant to Kuhnau´s biblical sonatas. A charming exegesis, which can be enjoyed as such, but as I wrote above: It does not increase my listening experience with this work.

One of the things he says about the Kuhnau sonatas is that they were a manual of affekts, and that has made me curious to hear them with a commentary in French or English that I can understand.

Oh, by the way, I heard a fabulous Buxwv 149 today from Ablitzer, and an interesting Buxwv 156 from Spang Hanssen, who seems to blend the voices more than I'm used to in baroque music, but the effect was not unattractive and the performance is spirited. Davidsson says 156 is a bunch of shepherds piping, and then there's a thunderstorm. Presumably he was inspired to make a thunderstorm by what was available on his organ.

The other thing I want to say is this: whatever you think of Davidsson's tempos and his stories, the organ is fab. He says somewhere that mean-tone makes a big difference to affekt and I bet he's right.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 21, 2016, 04:00:26 AM
One of the things he says about the Kuhnau sonatas is that they were a manual of affekts, and that has made me curious to hear them with a commentary in French or English that I can understand.

Does any exist?

Quote from: Mandryka
Oh, by the way, I heard a fabulous Buxwv 149 today from Ablitzer, and an interesting Buxwv 156 from Spang Hanssen, who seems to blend the voices more than I'm used to in baroque music, but the effect was not unattractive and the performance is spirited. Davidsson says 156 is a bunch of shepherds piping, and then there's a thunderstorm. Presumably he was inspired to make a thunderstorm by what was available on his organ.

The great F-major toccata? Never thought about it in that way.

Quote from: Mandryka
The other thing I want to say is this: whatever you think of Davidsson's tempos and his stories, the organ is fab. He says somewhere that mean-tone makes a big difference to affekt and I bet he's right.

The mean-tone (1/4 comma) is essential IMO, even if Buxtehude in his later years is said (K.Snyder) to prefer more "usable" modifications,
But equal tuning is lethal to the music.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2016, 08:55:48 AM
Does any exist?



No idea, I doubt it!

Does any exist?

The mean-tone (1/4 comma) is essential IMO, even if Buxtehude in his later years is said (K.Snyder) to prefer more "usable" modifications,
But equal tuning is lethal to the music.

It would be good to assemble a list of mean-tone performances.

I played Glen Wilson's Buxtehude CD last night, not the big set of variations but all the other pieces. For once he's sweet! And such lovely music. In the booklet he  says he thinks that Buxtehude's harpsichord music is second only to Froberger's (maybe he meant before Bach!),  and listening last night I could understand his enthusiasm.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 11, 2016, 02:22:07 AM

It would be good to assemble a list of mean-tone performances [of Buxtehude's organ music]



I wish you would do this for me! Last night I listened to vol 2 of Vogel and well . . . I missed meantone tuning. Maybe Davidsson's the only one apart from Koopman@Lüdingworth (which, as you know, I also like.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on March 11, 2016, 12:44:18 PM
I wish you would do this for me! Last night I listened to vol 2 of Vogel and well . . . I missed meantone tuning. Maybe Davidsson's the only one apart from Koopman@Lüdingworth (which, as you know, I also like.)

Maybe I am a bit too strict to ask for pure meantone tuning in Buxtehudes later Works. In 1683 he got the tuning of the two organs in the Marienkirche, Lübeck even more modified, so it became possible to play modes with more flat's or sharp's.

Organs tuned in pure meantone are seldom used for recordings of Buxtehudes organ works.

Some important restored baroque organs, which to day are tuned in meantone are:

The Stellwagen organ in Stralsund,
used by Martin Rost here:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Die-Norddeutsche-Orgelkunst-Vol-1-L%FCbeck/hnum/2658574

The Schnitger organ in Lüdingworth

used by Ton Koopman, Buxtehude cpt. organ works vol.2 (Challenge)
and Jean-Charles Ablitzer, Buxtehude cpt.organ works vol.1 (Harmonic records)
and for about 1/4th of Masaaki Suzuki's Buxtehude CD for BIS.

The Herbst organ in Basedow
used by Ton Koopman, Buxtehude cpt. organ Works vol.4 (Challenge)
and by Harald Vogel, cpt. organ works vol. 5 (MDG) but only for some of the CD, which however also features two other organs in meantone tuning (Hantelmann organ, Gross Eichen and B Hus organ, Langwarden).

The Scherer organ in Tangermünde
no Buxtehude to my knowledge

The by Grönlund reconstructed Düben organ in the German church, Stockholm
used by Bernard Foccroulle, cpt. organ works vol. 4 (CD D Ricercar)
and by Bine Bryndorf, cpt. organ works vol. 4 (Da Capo)

For vol. 5, 6 and 7 of the Naxos cpt. Buxtehude organ works series Julia Brown uses the Martin Pasi organ, Saint Cecilia Cathedral, Omaha.
It is constructed with double ranks for many of the stops, enabling the organist to play in mean tone tuning with the extra ranks. How much she uses that option, I can not tell for sure, since I haven´t listened to the CDs recently.

You know the organ Davidsson uses for his Buxtehude set.

Most historical organs used for Buxtehudes organ music are tuned in rather modified meantone (Werkmeister, Kirnberger et.c.) and some even in equal tuning (Schnitger organ, Alkmaar e.g.).

The booklet to the LP release of Walter Kraft's Buxtehude set states, that the organ he uses (the Totentanz-organ in the Marienkirche, Lübeck - reconstructed by Karl Kemper after WW II, later dismantled) is tuned in mean tone. I is evidently not tuned in equal temperature, but I think it even here is about a modified variety, as I do not think it sounds like pure meantone.



Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 11, 2016, 02:08:49 PM
Thank you premont, it's very kind and helpful of you to go to so much trouble. I have ordered Ablizer's CD, because I really enjoyed the Buxtehude in L'école du Nord.  I've also been listening to v5 of Vogel.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 11, 2016, 11:56:33 PM
Maybe I am a bit too strict to ask for pure meantone tuning in Buxtehudes later Works. In 1683 he got the tuning of the two organs in the Marienkirche, Lübeck even more modified, so it became possible to play modes with more flat's or sharp's.


Davidsson has something to say about this

Quote
Buxtehude’s organ landscape was in quarter-comma mean tone. Modification of mean tone, either systematical or of practical nature with compromise notes, was, if and when applied, an exception to the general practice. Because of the sustained nature of the organ sound and the expectation of stark contrast between consonance and dissonance, the mean-tone temperament with pure major thirds was preferred. It was a prerequisite for pure harmonic intonation in ensemble music, in which the large organs were frequently used as continuo instruments, and, despite contemporary theoretical discussions to the contrary, it was time-consuming and cost-prohibitive to apply these new temperaments to organs. Thus, it is clear that Buxtehude’s musical language developed within the realm of mean-tone temperament and that this temperament was standard when he played the organs. Nevertheless, it is a fact that a few of Buxtehude’s free organ works (BuxWV 141; BuxWV 142; BuxWV 149; BuxWV 151) are hardly playable in the keys in which they are preserved. Indeed, the free works of E minor, A minor, and G minor clearly benefit from the access to a d-sharp or a-flat instead of an e-flat or g-sharp (or instead of subsemitones, compromise notes for e-flat and g-sharp). There are several ways for the performer to diminish the harshness of impure harmony and/or dissonance, for example to shorten the length of dissonant notes or to add ornaments that hide them, or to adjust the registration from fuller registrations, for example Pleno, to solely Principal sound. However, the discrepancy between the temperament and a portion of the preserved works presents a problem that seems to be hard to solve. The notated versions may have been considered merely music for the eyes, or perhaps played on stringed keyboard instruments that more easily could be retuned. It was also foreign to the baroque era that a work of music existed as an absolute work in a completed form and carried with it the expectation that all notes should be possible to render exactly the way they are notated. The fact is that no organ works are preserved in autographs, and many compositions appear in somewhat different versions in different manuscripts. It is even documented that pieces surviving in keys like F-sharp minor were given to students to practice transposition.

We probably ought to take the baroque approach to this question: that the notated versions represent different versions of a work as a concept in evolution, and that it was perhaps never meant to be completed and final in a modern sense, but rather continuously developing and open for adjustments generated by the context and practical conditions.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Que on March 11, 2016, 11:59:07 PM
Thank you premont, it's very kind and helpful of you to go to so much trouble. I have ordered Ablizer's CD, because I really enjoyed the Buxtehude in L'école du Nord.  I've also been listening to v5 of Vogel.

You might like Ablitzer! 8)

Q
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 12, 2016, 05:55:22 AM
You might like Ablitzer! 8)

Q

I expect I will.

I must say, que,  my appreciation of Buxtehude on organ has come on tremendously over the past few months, you can see that through the discussion above,  really due to my discovery of meantone. It's so much less bland harmonically.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on March 12, 2016, 09:44:03 AM
My source for the tuning of the Marienkirche organs was Kerala Snyder, who proposed that the retuning in 1683 served the purpose, I mentioned above, but in a revision of her book (Dietrich Buxtehude, organist in Lübeck) she has abandoned this idea because of lacking evidence. So Davidsson may well be right. 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 12, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
The booklet to the LP release of Walter Kraft's Buxtehude set states, that the organ he uses (the Totentanz-organ in the Marienkirche, Lübeck - reconstructed by Karl Kemper after WW II, later dismantled) is tuned in mean tone. I is evidently not tuned in equal temperature

Yes, evidently.

but I think it even here is about a modified variety, as I do not think it sounds like pure meantone.

You must have the best pair of ears on the world wide web (assuming you're right)! I just don't know what to listen for.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on March 12, 2016, 02:16:41 PM
You must have the best pair of ears on the world wide web (assuming you're right)! I just don't know what to listen for.

I listen to the major thirds, how much they are in tune or out of tune.

In pure meantone tuning the major thirds of the commonly used modes (e.g. C major, F major) are pure, while the thirds of less used modes (e.g. F-Sharp major) are considerably out of tune - so much, that these modes can not be used. There was a reason, why they were rarely used.

The different modifications of the meantone tuning, particularly made in the late 16th Century and the early 17th Century (Werkmeister, Valotti, Kirnberger), served the purpose to make the major thirds of the less used modes more in tune, so that these modes could be used more, allowing for more free modulation. But this took place at the expense of the in-tuneness of the major thirds of the commonly used modes, so every tuning system can be regarded as a kind of compromise, depending on ones taste.

And then there is the ultimative compromise, where all major thirds are out of tune in equal measure - and too much (some think).

It is easy to detect the pure meantone and also the equal tuning, but I admit, that it is difficult to hear all the details of all these meantone modifications, but the crucial point is the major thirds. Our ear is very sensitive to variations of the major third, but for some reason it is not equally sensitive to small variations in tuneness of the fifths and minor thirds.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 13, 2016, 06:09:48 AM

and by Harald Vogel, cpt. organ works vol. 5 (MDG) but only for some of the CD, which however also features two other organs in meantone tuning (Hantelmann organ, Gross Eichen and B Hus organ, Langwarden).



One absolutely charming thing on that CD is Buxwv 245, "Courante zimble" - it's the only performance of it on organ I can find.

Added. Found  Julia Brown (v.7) and Hans Davidsson (Schnitger) Enjoyed neither as much as Vogel for his lightness and pulse. Also very much enjoyed Mortenssen do it, probably  most of all because of the variety of textures - arpeggiation etc.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on August 18, 2016, 08:48:36 PM
I got this rather disappointing message from Lena Jaconsen today:

Quote
Hello

Many thanks for your message.  I'd have been pleased to upload my paper on rhetoric in Buxtehude but unfortunately I can't locate the relevant  analogue Organ Yearbook volume in my own library.  However, Oxford University Press may offer you a possibility of downloading a PDF version of the paper. I'm sorry that I can't be of any more assistance here but I'm sure there must be a digital downloadable version lying around somewhere.  Many thanks for your interest in my work.

Best regards, Lena

As far as I know you can't get it from OUP and there is no downloadable version elsewhere.
Title: Re: Buxtehude's Box
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 17, 2016, 05:10:34 PM
Classical CD Of The Week: Super-Added Goldberg Variations
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/11/Forbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_CAPRICCIO_Bach_Goldberg-Variations_Buxtehude-Capricciosa_Schornsheim_Laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg?width=960)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-super-added-goldberg-variations/#def2993547e1 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-super-added-goldberg-variations/)

Whoo!! The Buxtehude is the real deal, here, almost... that's how good it is.

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: MickeyBoy on December 30, 2016, 05:10:43 PM
Mr Reilly,

Considering the most recent posts about tuning, could you tell us if the Buxtehude piece was played on an instrument with some variety of mean-tone tuning?

By the by, just got a copy of the 2nd ed of your book.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 30, 2016, 05:42:55 PM
I am currently listening to the Harald Vogel set. I'm only on CD2 of 7 so far, but am greatly enjoying the music, most of which is new to me. Favorite so far: Passacaglia in D (BuxWV 161), which to my ear sounds surprisingly modern--possibly even romantic in a sense.

Have any of you read Kerala Snyder's new(ish) biography of Buxtehude?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on December 31, 2016, 04:35:17 AM
Classical CD Of The Week: Super-Added Goldberg Variations
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/11/Forbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_CAPRICCIO_Bach_Goldberg-Variations_Buxtehude-Capricciosa_Schornsheim_Laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg?width=960)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-super-added-goldberg-variations/#def2993547e1 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-super-added-goldberg-variations/)

Whoo!! The Buxtehude is the real deal, here, almost... that's how good it is.


Mr Reilly,

Considering the most recent posts about tuning, could you tell us if the Buxtehude piece was played on an instrument with some variety of mean-tone tuning?

By the by, just got a copy of the 2nd ed of your book.

Hey Mickey,

first of all: excellent, flattering news about you having gotten a copy of SBB-II. I hope you'll enjoy the journey of discovery. Also: Behind this account isn't Mr. Reilly but just the contributing author.
To your Buxtehude Question: the tuning that C.Schornsheim uses for the Capricciosa is Mitteltönig. (The temperement in the Bach is in Kirnberger III.)

All the best,

Jens
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Jo498 on January 18, 2017, 11:30:20 AM
To get a cheap complete recording (I already have a few single discs with Ablitzer, Vogel, Oster...) would you guys recommend Stella or Spang-Hanssen?
And what about Stella's harpsichord set? (Far less options for these pieces than for the organ, it seems.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on January 18, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
To get a cheap complete recording (I already have a few single discs with Ablitzer, Vogel, Oster...) would you guys recommend Stella or Spang-Hanssen?
And what about Stella's harpsichord set? (Far less options for these pieces than for the organ, it seems.)

My own view is that there's a lot of pleasure to be had from Wilson and Alessandrini and Mortensen in the harpsichord music, and from Koopman and Stella too. Particularly from Wilson. But you can't go too wrong.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on January 18, 2017, 12:13:08 PM
To get a cheap complete recording (I already have a few single discs with Ablitzer, Vogel, Oster...) would you guys recommend Stella or Spang-Hanssen?
And what about Stella's harpsichord set? (Far less options for these pieces than for the organ, it seems.)

Spang-Hanssen for the organ works. Stella for the harpsichord works, if you want a complete set.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on January 18, 2017, 09:08:13 PM
Spang-Hanssen for the organ works. Stella for the harpsichord works, if you want a complete set.

Agree 100% with Spang-Hanssen on organ, as a cheap set - his Chaconne in c minor was what made me start loving Buxtehude and organ music in general.

Vogel (I don't have the complete set) is more interesting for the selection of organs than his playing, which is convincing, but won't blow me away.

Koopman is of course polarizing with his trademark high tempos, but great fun to listen to (although the sound of the 18th-century Stade organ in the last organ disc sticks out like a sore thumb among those of the other 17th century organs).

Foccroulle is very nice to listen to, but don't have performances that stand out for me.

Ablitzer is avaliable nowhere but on iTunes, and while the selection of organs is interesting, the playing isn't (at least judging from the few samples - a great shame, because I love his Praetorius CD).

But for harpsichord, I would pick Koopman over Stella, who impresses me more with his immense productivity than his playing. But I think Buxtehude's harpsichord music is just crying out for a sympathetic performer, as even Koopman has his shortcomings.

Some really nice "singles" are Alessandrini on harpsichord, Koito's anthology, and Piet Kee's 3 recordings!
Title: Re: Buxtehude's Box
Post by: Mandryka on February 09, 2017, 10:45:32 PM
Classical CD Of The Week: Super-Added Goldberg Variations
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/11/Forbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_CAPRICCIO_Bach_Goldberg-Variations_Buxtehude-Capricciosa_Schornsheim_Laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg?width=960)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-super-added-goldberg-variations/#def2993547e1 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/16/classical-cd-of-the-week-super-added-goldberg-variations/)

Whoo!! The Buxtehude is the real deal, here, almost... that's how good it is.

I enjoyed hearing her La Capricciosa too: cheerful and light and colourful and straight ahead.  I like Wilson and Mortensen too.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 31, 2017, 11:20:45 AM
Here's a toccata played on clavichord by Dick Verwolf

https://www.youtube.com/v/zkxNL1W9Od0

Someone on youtube there makes this comment

Quote
hmm... This interpretation sounds as if one used the pure Romantic phrase, as described by Hugo Riemann and other 19th century German theoreticians.
All these rubati are very beautiful but they remind me of the early 20th century reception of the works by Buxtehude (Straube and others).

;)

Does the phrasing really damage the structure of the music? I don't hear that.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mr. Minnow on December 13, 2017, 05:31:16 PM
Does anyone know if there are any differences between this:

(https://img.cdandlp.com/2014/05/imgL/116671152.jpg)

and this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61%2BRS6SRXJL._SX355_.jpg)

I was wondering if one edition has better sound quality than the other, or if the contents are identical. 


Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 13, 2017, 09:10:26 PM
Does anyone know if there are any differences between this:

(https://img.cdandlp.com/2014/05/imgL/116671152.jpg)

and this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61%2BRS6SRXJL._SX355_.jpg)

I was wondering if one edition has better sound quality than the other, or if the contents are identical.

These are both Membran releases, so I would expect them to be similar. I own one of them (the upper one) and can say, that the sound is surprisingly better on this Membran release than on the original Danish releases (Paula  and Danish Classico). I can also say, that the Membran release is legally licensed from Danish Classico. The recordings have also been released on NCA, which is a sub-label for Membran.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 13, 2017, 09:50:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/zkxNL1W9Od0

Does the phrasing really damage the structure of the music? I don't hear that.

The dynamic shadings remind me more of Romantic practice than the phrasing.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mr. Minnow on December 14, 2017, 04:04:08 AM
These are both Membran releases, so I would expect them to be similar. I own one of them (the upper one) and can say, that the sound is surprisingly better on this Membran release than on the original Danish releases (Paula  and Danish Classico). I can also say, that the Membran release is legally licensed from Danish Classico. The recordings have also been released on NCA, which is a sub-label for Membran.

Thanks for that. The lower one was apparently released in 2014, so I assume it's a straight reissue of the upper one, which was released in 2011. Does your copy of the upper one include a booklet? Amazon reviews of the lower one say it doesn't have one. 
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2017, 04:25:53 AM
I listened to a tremendous thing by Bux this week, BuxWV 207, a choral fantasy, in this CD by Winsemius which I  am enjoying a lot.

(https://www.boeijengamusic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x650/c02b730cab454942d65375f640b056d1/t/r/tr99017_v_1.jpg)

Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 14, 2017, 05:55:48 AM
Thanks for that. The lower one was apparently released in 2014, so I assume it's a straight reissue of the upper one, which was released in 2011. Does your copy of the upper one include a booklet? Amazon reviews of the lower one say it doesn't have one.

There is no booklet in the Membran release. But booklets were included in the Paula release and the Danish Classico release, which I also own.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 14, 2017, 06:11:18 AM
I listened to a tremendous thing by Bux this week, BuxWV 207, a choral fantasy, in this CD by Winsemius which I  am enjoying a lot.

(https://www.boeijengamusic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x650/c02b730cab454942d65375f640b056d1/t/r/tr99017_v_1.jpg)

Yes, a nice recording, not the least because of the magnificent organ in Nieuwe Kerk, Amsterdam. And
including Weckmann's Magnificat.

BTW BuxWV is not a choral phantasy but a sequence of four choral preludes.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mr. Minnow on December 14, 2017, 06:21:09 AM
There is no booklet in the Membran release. But booklets were included in the Paula release and the Danish Classico release, which I also own.

Thanks. It would seem both versions of the Membran release are the same, as they have the same numbers on the back covers - "order no. 224050, PC: 383, LC12281". Since neither has a booklet and the contents are presumably sonically identical I'll get whichever is cheaper.

Edit: not the same numbers according to some sites. I'd still assume they are sonically the same though.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2017, 01:47:54 PM
Yes, a nice recording, not the least because of the magnificent organ in Nieuwe Kerk, Amsterdam. And
including Weckmann's Magnificat.

BTW BuxWV is not a choral phantasy but a sequence of four choral preludes.

Winsemius's way of making one phrase link into the next is special, when I hear him play I imagine someone with very supple joints in his limbs, someone relaxed and happy to be making music. I like what he does when he plays fast and when he plays slow.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 14, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
Winsemius's [...] someone relaxed and happy to be making music. [...]

Exactly my impression, too.
Heard him live once, in August 2014: one hour+ of musical joy, which lasted in my head for at least a week. :)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 15, 2017, 10:30:13 AM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 15, 2017, 11:06:23 AM
Just to enjoy Winsemius's enjoyment in making music: playing (a.o.) Buxtehude's Praeludium in G minor BuxWV 163, Schonat/Duyschot/Hagerbeer organ of the Nieuwe Kerk, Amsterdam, NL. Audience recording, during Festival Hemelse Klanken, summer 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzNmXAJIuc
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2017, 11:16:42 AM
Just to enjoy Winsemius's enjoyment in making music: playing (a.o.) Buxtehude's Praeludium in G minor BuxWV 163, Schonat/Duyschot/Hagerbeer organ of the Nieuwe Kerk, Amsterdam, NL. Audience recording, during Festival Hemelse Klanken, summer 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzNmXAJIuc

Fabulous, thrilling in the Bux. He can somehow play fast without making it just bravura, -- like Schoonbroodt but I find myself more moved by Winsemius, for some reason I can't explain. Winsemius and Asperen on NM were the two people who made me hear the greatness of Sweelinck for the first time. he must work at Amsterdam New Church I suppose, I need to keep a look out for concerts by him, I fancy a trip to Amsterdam. I assume I've missed this one, I can't see a date

http://www.bachagenda.nl/Bach-orgelconcert_Bernard_Winsemius_in_de_Martinikerk_in_Groningen/default/6590
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2017, 09:22:26 AM
Fabulous, thrilling in the Bux. He can somehow play fast without making it just bravura, -- like Schoonbroodt but I find myself more moved by Winsemius, for some reason I can't explain. Winsemius and Asperen on NM were the two people who made me hear the greatness of Sweelinck for the first time. he must work at Amsterdam New Church I suppose, I need to keep a look out for concerts by him, I fancy a trip to Amsterdam. I assume I've missed this one, I can't see a date

http://www.bachagenda.nl/Bach-orgelconcert_Bernard_Winsemius_in_de_Martinikerk_in_Groningen/default/6590

It's most probably referring to this concert (august 2014):

http://www.avondmuziek.nl/recital?recid=810

Here are 2 concerts by (a.o.) Winsemius in the next 2 weeks, in the Nieuwe Kerk of Amsterdam:

https://www.nieuwekerk.nl/orgelconcerten/
https://www.nieuwekerk.nl/en/organconcerts/
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2017, 09:43:32 AM
[...]
Wolfgang Rübsam´s  Buxtehude recordings from the early 1980es [...]

(https://images2.imgbox.com/4c/59/3erti1w1_o.jpg)

https://www.wolfgangrubsam.com/buxtehude

Maybe this has been asked before somewhere, but does anyone know if this downloadable Buxtehude by Rübsam is his 1980s cycle (originally issued by Bellaphon)?
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on December 20, 2017, 10:02:38 AM
(https://images2.imgbox.com/4c/59/3erti1w1_o.jpg)

https://www.wolfgangrubsam.com/buxtehude

Maybe this has been asked before somewhere, but does anyone know if this downloadable Buxtehude by Rübsam is his 1980s cycle (originally issued by Bellaphon)?

This is just the Belaphon.

It's most probably referring to this concert (august 2014):

http://www.avondmuziek.nl/recital?recid=810

Here are 2 concerts by (a.o.) Winsemius in the next 2 weeks, in the Nieuwe Kerk of Amsterdam:

https://www.nieuwekerk.nl/orgelconcerten/
https://www.nieuwekerk.nl/en/organconcerts/

Well much as I'd like to be in Amsterdam for Christmas, it's not going to happen. (I used to have a "tradition" of going to Amsterdam for New Year, years ago, staying in some really cheap but safe youth hostels in the centre, you can imagine, great fun when you're 20.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 20, 2017, 11:18:52 AM
(https://images2.imgbox.com/4c/59/3erti1w1_o.jpg)

https://www.wolfgangrubsam.com/buxtehude

Maybe this has been asked before somewhere, but does anyone know if this downloadable Buxtehude by Rübsam is his 1980s cycle (originally issued by Bellaphon)?

As Mandryka points out, these recordings are the Bellaphone set. I understand from Rübsam, that he grouped the recordings in this way to save space (the Bellaphon set takes 9 CDs with short playing time). There was no talking about remastering.
The interpretations make a rather "modern" impression making use of a number of medium sized neo-baroque Metzler organs tuned in equal temperament. The interest rests upon his forward-looking phrasing and agogics. One of my great wishes is, that he re-records the Buxtehude set on historical instruments.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2017, 11:23:31 AM
Thanks both! :)

And, Mandryka, don't stop having fun now that you're 80! :P
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 20, 2017, 11:33:09 AM
Thanks both! :)

At your service!

Quote from: Marc
And, Mandryka, don't stop having fun now that you're 80! :P

I do not believe you.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2017, 11:40:58 AM
At your service!

I do not believe you.

I must be confused. ;)

Anyway: I have the Bellaphon recordings, so there's no reason for another purchase.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on December 20, 2017, 11:43:51 AM
I must be confused. ;)

Anyway: I have the Bellaphon recordings, so there's no reason for another purchase.

Plenty of 80 year olds have fun, as far as I can see. It's 90 when I think the fun starts to stop - maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2017, 11:49:41 AM
Plenty of 80 year olds have fun, as far as I can see. It's 90 when I think the fun starts to stop - maybe I'm wrong.

I'm still planning to hit the dancefloor on some good baroque move on my 100th birthday.
Though Rübsam might cause that rare condition called irregular hips. ;)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 20, 2017, 11:54:18 AM
I'm still planning to hit the dancefloor on some good baroque move on my 100th birthday.
Though Rübsam might cause that rare condition called irregular hips. ;)

Ooh! Irregular HIP's??  ;)

HIP, HIP, hurrah.  :D
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2017, 12:11:43 PM
Ooh! Irregular HIP's??  ;)

HIP, HIP, hurrah.  :D

Yeah.

And Merry Christmas!

Der Tag, der ist so freudenreich.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPa8YSWz-OY
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: (: premont :) on December 21, 2017, 04:21:23 AM
Yeah.

And Merry Christmas!

Der Tag, der ist so freudenreich.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPa8YSWz-OY

Thanks. Merry X-mas to you too.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmeYCRgXvHs
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 21, 2018, 12:51:36 PM
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/3pvgr.scms9/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1094-96-2.jpg?1503692466)


Ah, now I'm beginning to understand BuxWV 210 better. It's chorale based, with each section corresponding to a verse in the chorale. So what appeared in other performances to be sudden mood changes is revealed here to be a dialogue between singer and organist, because he has a choir boy, a very talented choir boy, singing. Very valuable achievement here from Davidsson IMO.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Marc on March 21, 2018, 10:51:04 PM
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/3pvgr.scms9/v/vspfiles/photos/LRCD-1094-96-2.jpg?1503692466)

Ah, now I'm beginning to understand BuxWV 210 better. It's chorale based, with each section corresponding to a verse in the chorale. So what appeared in other performances to be sudden mood changes is revealed here to be a dialogue between singer and organist, because he has a choir boy, a very talented choir boy, singing. Very valuable achievement here from Davidsson IMO.

I think this is the very talented choir boy:

(https://images2.imgbox.com/67/2e/gG9rem4U_o.jpg)

(Soprano Anna Jobrant; singing coach was/is Emma Kirkby.)
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: Mandryka on March 21, 2018, 10:56:59 PM
I was wondering that as I typed the post. Thanks.

Quote
Anna Jobrant is a singer devoted to Early Music, which suits her voice and appeals to her soul. The Academy of Music and Drama at the University of Gothenburg was the venue for her training; she has a degree in Music Education and then completed the Postgraduate Diploma Programme. While participating in the Diploma Programme, she was lucky to cross paths with the flautist Manuela Wiesler and the fantastic singer Emma Kirkby. Both of these accomplished musicians have in different, and decidedly important, ways inspired and guided Anna as an artist.

Most of Anna’s performances involve solos in oratorios, or solo concerts, but she also have a passion for vocal ensembles, which has led her to sing with ensembles such as Göteborg Baroque and Swedish Harmony of Voices among others.
Title: Re: Buxtehude organ works
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on November 16, 2019, 02:22:23 AM
The dynamic shadings remind me more of Romantic practice than the phrasing.
’They do indeed.  I find myself wondering how such obvious dynamic shadings were accomplished on that instrument. Close microphoning, an atypical instrument or both?
I’m also amazed the dynamics survived Youtube’s usual compression.