GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 11:26:56 AM

Title: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 11:26:56 AM
I figured that, as we had a thread similar to this on the old forum (it was restricted to the 20th century, but I'm throwing this one wide open), we ought to have one here. So feel free to discuss works and recordings by and of:

Alwyn
Arne
Arnold
Bainton
Bantock
Bax
Bliss
Boughton
Bridge
Britten
Byrd
Clark
Delius
Dunstable
Elgar
Field (we'll admit this one)
Finzi
Handel (we'll admit this one, too)
Gurney
Harty
Holst
Howells
Ireland
Litolff
MacMillan
Moeran
Mundy
Nyman (yes, he counts ;D)
Parry
Purcell
Quilter
Rawsthorne
Rodney Bennett
Rubbra
Somervell
Stanford
Sullivan
Tallis
Tavener (the long-haired one)
Taverner (the long-dead one)
Tippett
Tye
Vaughan Williams
Walton

... and Warlock (to name but a few from my own shelves*). :)




* Yes, I'm well aware this list isn't exhaustive. ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 25, 2007, 11:28:34 AM
Will this encompass expatriate Britons, such as Ivan Moody (http://www.ivanmoody.co.uk/)?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 11:29:46 AM
Will this encompass expatriate Britons, such as Ivan Moody (http://www.ivanmoody.co.uk/)?

If he's British and composes serious music, then he's in. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 25, 2007, 11:30:49 AM
...So, Vaughan Williams: best 20th century British composer?

(Whoo, this could start an argument :D)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
...So, Vaughan Williams: best 20th century British composer?

(Whoo, this could start an argument :D)

I'll see your Vaughan Williams (whose work I adore) and raise you Britten. :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 25, 2007, 11:34:16 AM
...So, Vaughan Williams: best 20th century British composer?

(Whoo, this could start an argument :D)

Not really . . . but he's got his own Veranda  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 25, 2007, 11:34:31 AM
If he's British and composes serious music, then he's in. ;)

Beauty!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 11:36:35 AM
Not really . . . but he's got his own Veranda  8)

I'm aware some British composers already have dedicated and well-served threads. That's cool. I just saw how I (and others) started messing up the Moeran thread with talk of other British composers, so it made sense to create this generic thread and make it as wide-reaching as possible.


And before anyone says anything, I know I missed off Dowland. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 25, 2007, 11:41:46 AM
I'll see your Vaughan Williams (whose work I adore) and raise you Britten. :D

Ahh it's hard :( An obviously veerrry scientific way to do it ;):

Symphonies:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 5/5

Orchestral:
- Britten: 3.5/5
- RVW: 4/5

Concerti:
- Britten: 3.5/5
- RVW: 3.5/5

Opera:
- Britten: 5/5
- RVW: 2/5

String quartets:
- Britten: 4/5
- RVW: 2.5/5

Misc. chamber:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 2/5

Choral:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 5/5

Songs:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 4/5

Total:
- Britten: 28/40
- RVW: 28/40

...Damn...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Don on October 25, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
Ahh it's hard :( An obviously veerrry scientific way to do it ;):

Symphonies:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 5/5

Orchestral:
- Britten: 3.5/5
- RVW: 4/5

Concerti:
- Britten: 3.5/5
- RVW: 3.5/5

Opera:
- Britten: 5/5
- RVW: 2/5

String quartets:
- Britten: 4/5
- RVW: 2.5/5

Misc. chamber:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 2/5

Choral:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 5/5

Songs:
- Britten: 3/5
- RVW: 4/5

Total:
- Britten: 28/40
- RVW: 28/40

...Damn...

There wouldn't be any "Damn" if didn't count chamber music twice.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 25, 2007, 11:47:08 AM
There wouldn't be any "Damn" if didn't count chamber music twice.

Well, technically I counted orchestral three times :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: marvinbrown on October 25, 2007, 12:16:51 PM
I figured that, as we had a thread similar to this on the old forum (it was restricted to the 20th century, but I'm throwing this one wide open), we ought to have one here. So feel free to discuss works and recordings by and of Alwyn, Arne, Arnold, Bainton, Bantock, Bax, Bliss, Boughton, Bridge, Britten, Byrd, Clark, Delius, Dunstable, Elgar, Field (we'll admit this one) Finzi, Handel (we'll admit this one, too), Gurney, Harty, Holst, Howells, Ireland, Litolff, MacMillan, Moeran, Mundy, Nyman (yes, he counts ;D), Parry, Purcell, Quilter, Rawsthorne, Rodney Bennett, Rubbra, Somervell, Stanford, Sullivan, Tallis, Tavener (the long-haired one), Taverner (the long-dead one), Tippett, Tye, Vaughan Williams, Walton and Warlock ... to name but a few from my own shelves*. :)


* Yes, I'm well aware this list isn't exhaustive. ;D

  Mark, I am so ashamed of myself.  Reading this thread made me think hard about my collection.  I went looking through my CDs and there are only two English Composers in my whole Collection  :o : Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance and a handfull of works by Handel (We'll have to admit Handel  ;) otherwise I'd have nothing to report). Then I thought OK maybe its not that bad, lets see what English speaking composers I have in my collection (English, American, Irish, Australian etc.) the net result: Elgar and Handel  ::). You know I have even neglected Britten's operas $:)!

  I think this issue needs to be addressed during future purchases  $:)!!

 
  marvin
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Brewski on October 25, 2007, 12:22:02 PM
You know I have even neglected Britten's operas $:)!

[look of horror]  :o

Emergency, emergency!  Must address right away!

 ;D  ;D  ;D

--Bruce
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 25, 2007, 12:32:53 PM
[look of horror]  :o

Emergency, emergency!  Must address right away!

 ;D  ;D  ;D

--Bruce

Traditional-costumed staging of Peter Grimes, stat...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RQQQ4T1QL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Grimes-Royal-Opera-Chorus/dp/B0000C24EX)

:P
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 25, 2007, 12:33:44 PM
I'll join Marvin's shaming line-up ( :-[ )  as i only have 3 CDs off the composers' list that Mark made :

- Byrd : Masses for 4/5 voices (listening to those now thanks to this thread) 
- Holst : Planets
- Tallis : Spem in Alium

(gotta love Naxos !  ;D )

I haven't heard anything of the others yet except Elgar's Enigma variations but that wasn't to my taste, so i'll check this thread out regularly for recs  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 25, 2007, 12:37:08 PM
I'll join Marvin's shaming line-up ( :-[ )  as i only have 3 CDs off the composers' list that Mark made :

- Byrd : Masses for 4/5 voices (listening to those now thanks to this thread)
- Holst : Planets
- Tallis : Spem in Alium

You picked the strongest era :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 25, 2007, 12:38:45 PM
...So, Vaughan Williams: best 20th century British composer?

I listened to Vaughan Williams today (Tallis Fantasia etc on Naxos). I don't know what I am missing in his music but I find it boring. Nothing seems to happen. It's all white snow to me.

 ???
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Don on October 25, 2007, 12:41:12 PM
I listened to Vaughan Williams today (Tallis Fantasia etc on Naxos). I don't know what I am missing in his music but I find it boring. Nothing seems to happen. It's all white snow to me.

 ???

Isn't all snow white as it comes down?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 25, 2007, 12:46:41 PM
I listened to Vaughan Williams today (Tallis Fantasia etc on Naxos). I don't know what I am missing in his music but I find it boring. Nothing seems to happen. It's all white snow to me.

Yeah, but we need to take into account that you dislike several other composers who people rank even higher than RVW - I guess his style just isn't your kind of thing :)

The Tallis Fantasia does use its material with economy, but to most it is highly effective. The symphonies are more in line with traditional expectations (the no.1 symphony is a fully choral one - almost to the point of being an oratorio - and somewhat influenced by Elgar), but I don't think it likely that you will enjoy his symphonies very much either. If you were to try any, perhaps the 9th, as even the 6th, which is commonly recommended as another side for people who are used to RVW's "happy" style, could probably be considered as "simplistic" by you. I would consider the orchestration more "to the point" than simplistic, and bursting with melody.

Edit: I guess my point is, don't try too hard to like him, he may be a "blind spot" in your interests, or if you do make an effort to enjoy his music, perhaps make sure that your expectations are ones that he can meet, rather than getting disappointed at him not being something else.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Peregrine on October 25, 2007, 12:47:56 PM
I'll go Delius, VW, Britten, Bridge and Butterworth. In that order...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Peregrine on October 25, 2007, 12:50:27 PM
I listened to Vaughan Williams today (Tallis Fantasia etc on Naxos). I don't know what I am missing in his music but I find it boring. Nothing seems to happen. It's all white snow to me.

 ???

Try and get hold of the Barbirolli/English String music disc, then you'll know what you've been missing... ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Keemun on October 25, 2007, 12:50:57 PM
I went looking through my CDs and there are only two English Composers in my whole Collection  :o :

Gee, I don't feel so bad now. :D  I have music by Bantock, Bax, Elgar, Handel, Holst and Vaughan Williams.  I might even include those on the Stile Antico - Music for Compline (http://www.amazon.com/Music-Compline-Thomas-Tallis/dp/B000LPRNSG/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3796432-6744828?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193348749&sr=8-1) album. 

Isn't all snow white as it comes down?

Generally, yes, but once it's been on the ground for a while it could turn yellow.  :-X
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 01:04:21 PM
I'll go Delius, VW, Britten, Bridge and Butterworth. In that order...

Knew I'd missed someone on my shelves. ;D

I also missed off Thomas Morley.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 01:05:48 PM
Keemun, thanks. I missed Sheppard, too.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 01:13:04 PM
No mention of Havergal Brian so far. symphonies 1,3,6,8,10 are all masterpieces of sorts.Look out for the Lyrita reissue of nos 6 and 16 in Feb 2008.

Patrick Hadley's "The Trees so High" is one of my favourite works by a British composer (Lyrita and Chandos). It should be much better known. I have seen it (incorrectly) described as "Vaughan Williams with water"...infact it is a much more personal work than anything Vaughan Williams wrote (with the possible exception of Symphony 9). Vaughan Williams's music, for all its great beauty has a strangely impersonal quality to it.

Also, Phillip Sainton's "Nadir" (a masterpiece in 13 minutes), The  Island and Moby Dick film score are all favourites as are Lennox Berkeley's First Symphony and double piano concerto.  Arthur Benjamin's Symphony is like the VW No 6 (Benjamin was actually an Australian). Cyril Scott is having something of a CD revivival. John Gardner's 1st Symphony on Naxos is also worthwhile as is Edgar Bainton's movingly valedictory Third Symphony (Dutton).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 01:18:34 PM
No mention of Havergal Brian so far. symphonies 1,3,6,8,10 are all masterpieces of sorts.Look out for the Lyrita reissue of nos 6 and 16 in Feb 2008.

Patrick Hadley's "The Trees so High" is one of my favourite works by a British composer (Lyrita and Chandos). It should be much better known. I have seen it (incorrectly) described as "Vaughan Williams with water"...infact it is a much more personal work than anything Vaughan Williams wrote (with the possible exception of Symphony 9). Vaughan Williams's music, for all its great beauty has a strangely impersonal quality to it.

Also, Phillip Sainton's "Nadir" (a masterpiece in 13 minutes), The  Island and Moby Dick film score are all favourites as are Lennox Berkeley's First Symphony and double piano concerto.  Arthur Benjamin's Symphony is like the VW No 6 (Benjamin was actually an Australian). Cyril Scott is having something of a CD revivival. John Gardner's 1st Symphony on Naxos is also worthwhile as is Edgar Bainton's movingly valedictory Third Symphony (Dutton).

Knew you'd show up soon with a list of composers (save Berkeley and Scott) whom I hadn't even considered. ;D

And of course, we shouldn't neglect Ferneyhough, Birtwistle, Turnage, Ades and Maxwell Davis. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 01:28:05 PM
You picked the strongest era :)

See, I said in the GMG associations thread that you're a renaissance girl, and I was right. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 01:32:43 PM
I listened to Vaughan Williams today (Tallis Fantasia etc on Naxos). I don't know what I am missing in his music but I find it boring. Nothing seems to happen.

Just heart-breaking. :'(

Firstly, you're starting off with a good but not excellent recording of the Tallis Fantasia (or, to give it its full name, Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis ;)), and second, to conclude that nothing seems to happen strikes me as incredible, using that word literally. Were you not moved at all by it? That piece is in my very veins since I first heard it ten years ago (on the day Diana, Princess of Wales died, actually). It's so tragically beautiful, and so very, very English. If you love Elgar, then I fail to understand why this piece in particular doesn't speak to you.

Like I said, heart-breaking. :'(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 01:33:36 PM
Knew you'd show up soon with a list of composers (save Berkeley and Scott) whom I hadn't even considered. ;D

And of course, we shouldn't neglect Ferneyhough, Birtwistle, Turnage, Ades and Maxwell Davis. ;)

Can't get on with Maxwell Davies and don't know much of Ades, Ferneyhough and the others. I think that I am more conservative in my taste but will investigate. I have time for Fricker and really like the First Symphony by the Scotsman Robin Orr (EMI British Composers). If you are into the British pastoral school, give yourself a treat and get hold of Hadley's The Trees So High; a heartbreakingly sad and deeply moving work. I forgot to mention Howells's "Hymnus Paradisi" one of the most moving works I have ever heard.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 01:35:55 PM
Can't get on with Maxwell Davies and don't know much of Ades, Ferneyhough and the others. I think that I am more conservative in my taste but will investigate. I have time for Fricker and really like the First Symphony by the Scotsman Robin Orr (EMI British Composers). If you are into the British pastoral school, give yourself a treat and get hold of Hadley's The Trees So High; a heartbreakingly sad and deeply moving work. I forgot to mention Howells's "Hymnus Paradisi" one of the most moving works I have ever heard.

Thanks for the recommendation. :)

Have you tried Howells' chamber works? Or those of Bliss, for that matter? Check them out on Naxos - thoroughly recommended. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 01:54:17 PM
Thanks for the recommendation. :)

Have you tried Howells' chamber works? Or those of Bliss, for that matter? Check them out on Naxos - thoroughly recommended. ;)

The Oboe Quintet by Bliss is a wonderful score.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:00:22 PM
The Oboe Quintet by Bliss is a wonderful score.

Agreed. Which leads me to strongly recommend this:

Bax, Bliss & Britten - Oboe Quintets (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=7538)

Worth it for Britten's Phantasy Quartet alone.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: marvinbrown on October 25, 2007, 02:02:43 PM
Traditional-costumed staging of Peter Grimes, stat...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RQQQ4T1QL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Grimes-Royal-Opera-Chorus/dp/B0000C24EX)

:P

  Thanks Lethe for the recommendation and Bruce for insisting that the lack of any Britten operas needs to be  addressed immediately.  I think thats where I will go to next -> Britten's operas as I have been buying opera DVDs at an alarming fast rate (3 per week)  ;D. I'll also have to pick up Holst's' Planets- I can't believe I don't have that  $:)!!  

  marvin  
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2007, 02:08:52 PM
Supplemental consolidated 20th century list-

Richard Arnell
Sir Lennox Berkeley
York Bowen
Havergal Brian
Alan Bush
Geoffrey Bush
Arnold Cooke
Frederick Cowen
Benjamin Frankel
Peter Racine Fricker
John Gardner
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs
Patrick Hadley
Iain Hamilton
Alun Hoddinott
Joseph Holbrooke
Gordon Jacob
Daniel Jones
George Lloyd
William Mathias
Colin Matthews
David Matthews
John McCabe
Anthony Milner
Cyril Rootham
Cyril Scott
Humphrey Searle
Robert Simpson
Bernard Stevens
Robert Still
Egon Wellesz(all his symphonies were written in Britain)
Hugh Wood
William Wordsworth

apologies to those still missing!!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:10:27 PM
I'll also have to pick up Holst's' Planets- I can't believe I don't have that  $:)!!  

PM Greta - she has over 50 recordings and can almost certainly recommend one (or 12) to get you started. ;D

Just don't make this your first:

(http://www.whitelabelproductions.co.uk/cms/assets/project/images/3593822_01.jpg)

It's good, but it's not great.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Peregrine on October 25, 2007, 02:12:00 PM
PM Greta - she has over 50 recordings and can almost certainly recommend one (or 12) to get you started. ;D


Bloody hell! OCD alert!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:12:55 PM
Supplemental consolidated 20th century list-

Richard Arnell
Sir Lennox Berkeley
York Bowen
Havergal Brian
Alan Bush
Geoffrey Bush
Arnold Cooke
Frederick Cowen
Benjamin Frankel
Peter Racine Fricker
John Gardner
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs
Patrick Hadley
Iain Hamilton
Alun Hoddinott
Joseph Holbrooke
Gordon Jacob
Daniel Jones
George Lloyd
William Mathias
Colin Matthews
David Matthews
John McCabe
Anthony Milner
Cyril Rootham
Cyril Scott
Humphrey Searle
Robert Simpson
Bernard Stevens
Robert Still
Egon Wellesz(all his symphonies were written in Britain)
Hugh Wood
William Wordsworth

apologies to those still missing!!

Impressive, sir. :)

I'm embarrassed to have missed off Bowen and (Colin) Matthews.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:14:20 PM
Bloody hell! OCD alert!

No different to me and my 22 recordings of Rachmaninov's All-night Vigil (aka Vespers). But let's not wreck the integrity of this thread by getting into that. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 25, 2007, 02:33:22 PM
Try and get hold of the Barbirolli/English String music disc, then you'll know what you've been missing... ;)


No, no, Poju will never twig Vaughan Williams.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2007, 02:42:36 PM
......and-

Frederic Austin
Arthur Butterworth
George Butterworth
Frederic Cliffe
Samuel Coleridge-Taylor
Cecil Coles
Gordon Crosse
Sir George Dyson
Ernest Farrar
Howard Ferguson
John Foulds
Sir Edward German
Sir Euge Goossens
Edward Gregson
Constant Lambert
Walter Leigh
Kenneth Leighton
Dame Elizabeth Lutyens
Dame Elizabeth Maconchy
Hamish McCunn
Sir John McEwan
Thomas Pitfield
Gerard Schurmann
Dame Ethel Smuth
Sir Donald Tovey
Harold Truscott
Sir Henry Walford Davies
William Wallace
Graham Whettam
Grace Williams

from my own(pretty conservative) collection.

That's enough from me!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:43:12 PM
Currently listening to an exclusive preview (online) of Ades' Violin Concerto which will be released by EMI as a download-only album in November. I like what I hear ...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2007, 02:43:40 PM
Sir Eugene Goossens that is!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: jurajjak on October 25, 2007, 02:44:18 PM
Agreed. Which leads me to strongly recommend this:

Bax, Bliss & Britten - Oboe Quintets (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=7538)

Worth it for Britten's Phantasy Quartet alone.

I'd be very interested in a further discussion of Bliss.  Since I first heard it about 3 years ago, I've been obsessed with Morning Heroes, probably his greatest work.  Does he have any other works that are equally good?  I know Rout, the Color Symphony, some of the film scores (i.e., Things to Come), Checkmate, the oboe quintent, and a couple other pieces, and while much of it is excellent, I haven't found another Bliss masterpiece on the level of Morning Heroes.  Does anyone know his opera The Olympians?  Apparently there is one obscure (live) recording.


andrew
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:51:40 PM
How could I forget Tovey (wonderful Cello Concerto), and Coleridge-Taylor! :o
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2007, 02:52:55 PM
I'd be very interested in a further discussion of Bliss.  Since I first heard it about 3 years ago, I've been obsessed with Morning Heroes, probably his greatest work.  Does he have any other works that are equally good?  I know Rout, the Color Symphony, some of the film scores (i.e., Things to Come), Checkmate, the oboe quintent, and a couple other pieces, and while much of it is excellent, I haven't found another Bliss masterpiece on the level of Morning Heroes.  Does anyone know his opera The Olympians?  Apparently there is one obscure (live) recording.


andrew


As far as choral music is concerned, very little Bliss has been recorded. I wish that I could tell you that his big Cantatas "The Beatitudes"(1962), "Mary of Magdala"(1963) or "The Golden Cantata"(1964) were masterpieces but I have never heard any of them and, inexplicably, none has been recorded. "The Beatitudes" was written for the same rededication of Coventry Cathedral as Britten's War Requiem and was forgotten in all the publicity the Britten received.

I have a soft spot for his orchestral Meditations on a Theme of John Blow(1955) and the very late Metamorphic Variations for orchestra(1975)-both are sound works lacking that last final touch of inspiration.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:58:20 PM
I like small-scale Bliss best - his Conversations for Flute, Oboe, Violin, Viola and Cello are fascinating works, as is his A Major String Quartet. The Piano Quartet also deserves to be heard more often.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: jurajjak on October 25, 2007, 03:33:48 PM
I like small-scale Bliss best - his Conversations for Flute, Oboe, Violin, Viola and Cello are fascinating works, as is his A Major String Quartet. The Piano Quartet also deserves to be heard more often.

Thanks for the replies...I'll need to check out the quartets.  It was the first movement of Morning Heroes--a wonderful, terribly moving piece of melodrama--that first started my interest in Bliss.  I'm trying to hunt down the one recording of The Olympians.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: some guy on October 25, 2007, 06:38:08 PM
I second Searle.

And add Harvey and Harrison and Cardew and Hobbs and Hodgkinson and Bailey and Rowe and Cutler.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 26, 2007, 02:04:46 AM
  Thanks Lethe for the recommendation and Bruce for insisting that the lack of any Britten operas needs to be  addressed immediately.  I think thats where I will go to next -> Britten's operas as I have been buying opera DVDs at an alarming fast rate (3 per week)  ;D.

:) I am planning on buying pretty much every Britten DVD (that isn't region 1 - no region-free player atm) eventually, so will be able to direct you away from any stinkers :P At the moment the Peter Grimes that I linked is my favourite, with the film Turn of the Screw (Opus Arte) a strong contender. The NVC Arts/Warner Midsummer Night's Dream looks potentially amazing, but my copy doesn't work :-X I still need to return it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 26, 2007, 02:48:33 AM
Yeah, but we need to take into account that you dislike several other composers who people rank even higher than RVW - I guess his style just isn't your kind of thing :)

The Tallis Fantasia does use its material with economy, but to most it is highly effective. The symphonies are more in line with traditional expectations (the no.1 symphony is a fully choral one - almost to the point of being an oratorio - and somewhat influenced by Elgar), but I don't think it likely that you will enjoy his symphonies very much either. If you were to try any, perhaps the 9th, as even the 6th, which is commonly recommended as another side for people who are used to RVW's "happy" style, could probably be considered as "simplistic" by you. I would consider the orchestration more "to the point" than simplistic, and bursting with melody.

Edit: I guess my point is, don't try too hard to like him, he may be a "blind spot" in your interests, or if you do make an effort to enjoy his music, perhaps make sure that your expectations are ones that he can meet, rather than getting disappointed at him not being something else.

That's some nice advice Lethe! Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 26, 2007, 02:50:18 AM
Try and get hold of the Barbirolli/English String music disc, then you'll know what you've been missing... ;)


 ;D I suppose that dics defines good English music to many.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Grazioso on October 26, 2007, 02:55:21 AM
;D I suppose that dics defines good English music to many.

To me, this defines good English music:

(http://www.classical-composers.org/img/bax2.jpg)

:)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 26, 2007, 03:17:27 AM
Just heart-breaking. :'(

Firstly, you're starting off with a good but not excellent recording of the Tallis Fantasia (or, to give it its full name, Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis ;)), and second, to conclude that nothing seems to happen strikes me as incredible, using that word literally. Were you not moved at all by it? That piece is in my very veins since I first heard it ten years ago (on the day Diana, Princess of Wales died, actually). It's so tragically beautiful, and so very, very English. If you love Elgar, then I fail to understand why this piece in particular doesn't speak to you.

Like I said, heart-breaking. :'(

I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 26, 2007, 03:21:17 AM
Obvious error here corrected:

Quote
VW sounds shockingly refreshingly different to Elgar.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JoshLilly on October 26, 2007, 04:21:31 AM
Coleridge-Taylor wrote two of my favourite works for violin and orchestra. From the Hyperion 'The Romantic Violin Concerto' series, volume 5 contains his Violin Concerto in G minor, Op. 80, paired up with Violin Concerto of Arthur Somervell. Coleridge-Taylor's Romance in G for Violin and Orchestra is really exquisite. There's at least one recording of his Symphony out there, and I was wondering what that was like.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 26, 2007, 05:07:02 AM
Coleridge-Taylor wrote two of my favourite works for violin and orchestra. From the Hyperion 'The Romantic Violin Concerto' series, volume 5 contains his Violin Concerto in G minor, Op. 80, paired up with Violin Concerto of Arthur Somervell. Coleridge-Taylor's Romance in G for Violin and Orchestra is really exquisite. There's at least one recording of his Symphony out there, and I was wondering what that was like.

It is an amiable enough work in the received Dvorak tradition of the time, having been composed in 1896 when C-T was a 21 year old student of Stanford.
Worth hearing but not as fine a work as the Violin Concerto.

It is coupled on a Classico CD with Cowen's Symphony No.6 "Idyllic". Cowen's Symphony No.3 "The Scandinavian" is available on Marco Polo and I believe that there are plans(Cameo Clasics) to record his Symphony No.4 "The Welsh".
Cameo Classics-apparently-have plans to record Holbrooke's Dramartic Choral Symphony No.1, "The Bells" and "Queen Mab" and Havergal Brian's Symphony No.5 "Wine of Summer"!!

This will sound sour but I have two problems with this sort of enterprise, fantastic though it is in so many ways. Firstly, the apparent current vogue for resurrecting late 19th and early 20th century British music does uncover a good deal of pretty humdrum stuff in a style which is well-schooled and pleasant enough but could almost have been written by Mendelssohn, let alone Brahms or Dvorak, and secondly(and more importantly) if the less well-known music of the past is to be restored to circulation it must be performed with conviction(which, to be fair, it usually is) and by an orchestra which can actually cope with its demands. The tragedy is that unless-for example-Havergal Brian's music is given ample rehearsal time and a good orchestra the music does not really have its fair chance. What this music needs is a conductor of genius-like a Beecham-to bring it back properly to life as the composer intended. Otherwise we get only a partial insight and, potentially, a misleading impression of its real quality.

Anyway, I knew that would sound an ungrateful note and that is the last thing I would want to send to those small companies which are currently doing such sterling work in this field. I have just received my new copies of Dunhill's Symphony and Chisholm's 2nd Symphony and I know that I can trust Dutton, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra and Martin Yates to have done a good job!!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on October 26, 2007, 05:27:18 AM
Dundonnell - I also have problems with the recording priorities of some British record labels. I could go without ANY turn of the century academic stuff, but it could at least be kept to a minimum for a while - there is a lot of hardly recorded repertoire from the middle of the century (and later) which has passion to knock that stuff dead... But it does seem that the better music requires playing that is above routine - and routine playing suits the academics just fine, so they get recorded :P

As OK as composers like Stanford are, I just can't see the point in recording MORE of his chamber music at the expense of an inspired genius such as Finzi, or somebody, who don't even have their whole output recorded :-\
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 26, 2007, 05:43:53 AM
I have a soft spot for his orchestral Meditations on a Theme of John Blow(1955) and the very late Metamorphic Variations for orchestra(1975)-both are sound works lacking that last final touch of inspiration.

Me too (now there's a surprise!). The best recording of the Meditations on a Theme by Blow (so much better than the "aimiable, rambling piece" I have seen it described as) was by Hugo Rignold on Lyrita. It is due out in November 2007.

Have just ordered the Symphony by Dunhill on Dutton with Arnell's "Lord Byron Portrait" should be an interesting disc.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 26, 2007, 05:46:26 AM
Agreed. Which leads me to strongly recommend this:

Bax, Bliss & Britten - Oboe Quintets (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=7538)

Worth it for Britten's Phantasy Quartet alone.

This is a great CD too:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bliss-Quintet-Britten-Phantasy-Quartet/dp/B000J10JY2/ref=sr_1_2/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193409871&sr=1-2
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 26, 2007, 06:21:43 AM
Dundonnell - I also have problems with the recording priorities of some British record labels. I could go without ANY turn of the century academic stuff, but it could at least be kept to a minimum for a while - there is a lot of hardly recorded repertoire from the middle of the century (and later) which has passion to knock that stuff dead... But it does seem that the better music requires playing that is above routine - and routine playing suits the academics just fine, so they get recorded :P

As OK as composers like Stanford are, I just can't see the point in recording MORE of his chamber music at the expense of an inspired genius such as Finzi, or somebody, who don't even have their whole output recorded :-\

Could not agree more! Frankly, I would rather that we could access more of the music-for example-of Havergal Brian, Alan Bush, Arnold Cooke, Peter Racine Fricker, Iain Hamilton, Alun Hoddinott, Daniel Jones, John McCabe and William Wordsworth, to mention some of the more demanding but still accessible  20th century British composers than amiable but essentially romantic offcuts like York Bowen(for whom there is an apparent vogue at the moment!).

The additional info' that the works I mentioned earlier planned by Cameo Classics are to be recorded in Belarus does not give me much confidence. That may be-and I hope it is-totally unfair! However....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 26, 2007, 07:21:01 AM
I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.

You leave me speechless, Poju, utterly speechless ...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: BachQ on October 26, 2007, 07:30:46 AM
You leave me speechless, Poju, utterly speechless ...

Welcome to Poju's World
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Grazioso on October 26, 2007, 08:03:13 AM
I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.

Have you listened to the RVW symphonies? The Wasps overture (very clear structure), the Phantasy Quintet? You mention the Lark Ascending, which is one of the most quintessentially English pieces of music I've heard. A gorgeous dreamy, pastoral piece. I always liked the Tallis Fantasia, but what really hammered home its emotional impact was its use as an elegy in the excellent film Master and Commander (which very deftly employs classical music throughout).

At this point, though, I'd rather listen to Bax than either Elgar or RVW :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 26, 2007, 08:29:39 AM
Have just ordered the CD below, containing music by Chisholm, Hold and Fogg.  Looks intriguing!

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7196
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 26, 2007, 09:09:14 AM
You leave me speechless, Poju, utterly speechless ...

I'm an antiverbalist, I make people speechless...  :P

Personally I am shocked how low Elgar's status is among fans of classical music.

Have you listened to the RVW symphonies? The Wasps overture (very clear structure), the Phantasy Quintet? You mention the Lark Ascending, which is one of the most quintessentially English pieces of music I've heard. A gorgeous dreamy, pastoral piece. I always liked the Tallis Fantasia, but what really hammered home its emotional impact was its use as an elegy in the excellent film Master and Commander (which very deftly employs classical music throughout).

I haven't really listened to RVW symphonies. I haven't seen Master and Commander either.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Brewski on October 26, 2007, 09:18:31 AM
Have you listened to the RVW symphonies? The Wasps overture (very clear structure), the Phantasy Quintet? You mention the Lark Ascending, which is one of the most quintessentially English pieces of music I've heard. A gorgeous dreamy, pastoral piece. I always liked the Tallis Fantasia, but what really hammered home its emotional impact was its use as an elegy in the excellent film Master and Commander (which very deftly employs classical music throughout).

At this point, though, I'd rather listen to Bax than either Elgar or RVW :)


Oh Grazioso, thanks for reminding me of the Overture to The Wasps, which I love and haven't heard in a very long time.  Another immensely likeable work that doesn't seem to show up in the concert hall very much.

--Bruce
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 26, 2007, 09:21:23 AM
Have just ordered the CD below, containing music by Chisholm, Hold and Fogg.  Looks intriguing!

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7196

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dutton is a label I need to explore. Ditto, Lyrita.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 26, 2007, 09:29:40 AM
Personally I am shocked how low Elgar's status is among fans of classical music.

Personally, you are steadily depressing his status further.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 26, 2007, 09:30:18 AM
Quote
I haven't really listened to RVW symphonies.

Ladies and gentleman of the jury, your honor:  we have no further questions.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 26, 2007, 09:35:28 AM
Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Rawsthorne)? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BK2WRJF8L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 26, 2007, 09:43:23 AM
Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Rawsthorne)? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'.

Interesting, Mark;  a great friend sent me a disc of chamber music, to which I have not yet gotten around to listening.

PS, as you are such a fan (and rightly so) of the Rakhmaninov Vespers, I hope you will seek out some of Ivan Moody's sacred choral music to give an ear to.  He has a most intimate and subtle familiarity with traditional Eastern Orthodox styles.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 26, 2007, 09:50:37 AM
Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Rawsthorne)? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BK2WRJF8L._SS500_.jpg)


Most definitely yes. Symphonic Studies is his masterpece but both piano concertos are fine and the symphonies (all on one Naxos disc) are well worth exploring.  I love the Chandos disc of Rawsthorne's film music. The short score for "The Cruel Sea" is as good an evocation of the swll of the ocean as I know in music.

At first he studied to be a dentist!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rawsthorne-Film-Music-Alan/dp/B00004RDVO/ref=sr_1_1/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193424677&sr=1-1
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Don on October 26, 2007, 01:25:39 PM
Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Rawsthorne)? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BK2WRJF8L._SS500_.jpg)

I'm a big fan of Rawsthorne's music and have all the Naxos and Lyrita discs along with an ASV of string quartets.  He takes some time to assimilate, but the effort is certainly worth it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 26, 2007, 01:45:32 PM
Knowing how our tastes can often be aligned, Don, I'm not surprised you're a fan of Rawsthorne. You're right about his work needing due time and listening to fully assimilate, and that it's worth the effort. I grabbed a handful of his recordings on Naxos straight after hearing the disc I've promoted in this thread, so convinced was I of his artistic worth.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 26, 2007, 01:47:50 PM
PS, as you are such a fan (and rightly so) of the Rakhmaninov Vespers, I hope you will seek out some of Ivan Moody's sacred choral music to give an ear to.  He has a most intimate and subtle familiarity with traditional Eastern Orthodox styles.

Thanks for this, Karl. I trust Moody's work is easily enough sourced on CD?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Nunc Dimittis on October 26, 2007, 03:29:07 PM
I know Mark you value Vaughan Williams even higher than Elgar but I have always left cold by VW's music.

What I mean by saying nothing happens is I don't sense movement/changes in the music. VW's music sounds very similar all the time. It never does anything crazy/anarchist/unexpected to surprise the listener. There is no contrasts. That's why I talk about snow. You walk and walk but all you see around yourself is the same white snow and it makes you eventually blind. I also do not sense much musical structures. Harmony, rhythm, melody, tempi and other musical dimension don't seem to connect to each other. They live their own independent life. That makes the music "flat" for me (just like ground covered with show). VW sounds shockingly different from Elgar. There seems to be nothing in common. Even Sibelius who I don't care much either sounds more Elgar than VW.

It seems I need a snow shovel to remove the snow and see the colourful ground under it. Or, I need to look up to the sky and see the lark ascending.

Huh?  Have you listened to Symphonies 4, 6, 8 & 9 and the Piano Concerto? There is structure there.  It may not be what you are used to and expecting. Also, there are crazy/anarchist/unexpected moments in the above mentioned pieces.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 26, 2007, 05:30:46 PM
Any fans here of Alan Rawsthorne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Rawsthorne)? He was sold to me as 'the British Prokofiev'. Not sure I'd go quite that far, but I do hear similarities. This disc will make an excellent introduction for anyone interested - the Concertante Pastorale being particularly special:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BK2WRJF8L._SS500_.jpg)

Rawsthorne always strikes me as more of an English Hindemith, I have to say. His music is skillfull and fastidious but lacks a certain element of warmth-as if he was just a little wary of letting emotion come too near the surface of the music. That said, the symphonies and concerti are all worth listening to and persevering with. The 1st symphony is particularly vigorous, the 2nd (with soprano solo) is warmer than most Rawsthorne, and the 3rd, though a little more 'difficult' has a very fine central slow movement.
It is often forgotten that Rawsthorne too(like Bliss) composed some big choral pieces-the Medieval Diptych for baritone and orchestra(1962), 'Carmen Vitale' for soprano, chorus and orchestra(1963) and the Cantata "The God in the Cave"(1967) but the 1960s was not a good decade for the more traditional British composers as rampant modernism swept concert halls and the BBC. These choral works are not available on CD yet.

A composer whose music I respect but would not go so far as to say love.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: edward on October 26, 2007, 06:04:01 PM
Huh?  Have you listened to Symphonies 4, 6, 8 & 9 and the Piano Concerto? There is structure there.  It may not be what you are used to and expecting. Also, there are crazy/anarchist/unexpected moments in the above mentioned pieces.
I'm glad someone mentioned RVW's piano concerto: to my mind a ridiculously neglected piece that combines some of his most ferocious writing with a drop-dead gorgeous slow movement. I wish some big-name pianist would champion it, though I'm told the work has the disadvantage of sounding much less difficult than it actually is to play.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 26, 2007, 08:37:36 PM
Some members posted they don't really know/have much music by English composers. Some members know their Rawsthornes and Baxes. Very dividing! My own interest of British composers has been limited mainly to Elgar, Finzi, Händel and Purcel.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: 71 dB on October 26, 2007, 08:43:20 PM
Huh?  Have you listened to Symphonies 4, 6, 8 & 9 and the Piano Concerto? There is structure there.  It may not be what you are used to and expecting. Also, there are crazy/anarchist/unexpected moments in the above mentioned pieces.

No, I haven't explored the Symphonies nor the Piano Concerto because what I have heard from RVW isn't promising. However, I'll keep in mind what you said.  ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 26, 2007, 11:28:09 PM
Rawsthorne always strikes me as more of an English Hindemith, I have to say. His music is skillfull and fastidious but lacks a certain element of warmth-as if he was just a little wary of letting emotion come too near the surface of the music. That said, the symphonies and concerti are all worth listening to and persevering with. The 1st symphony is particularly vigorous, the 2nd (with soprano solo) is warmer than most Rawsthorne, and the 3rd, though a little more 'difficult' has a very fine central slow movement.
It is often forgotten that Rawsthorne too(like Bliss) composed some big choral pieces-the Medieval Diptych for baritone and orchestra(1962), 'Carmen Vitale' for soprano, chorus and orchestra(1963) and the Cantata "The God in the Cave"(1967) but the 1960s was not a good decade for the more traditional British composers as rampant modernism swept concert halls and the BBC. These choral works are not available on CD yet.

A composer whose music I respect but would not go so far as to say love.

An apt summary. I'm unfamiliar with Hindemith, but I can concur with the remainder of your post.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 27, 2007, 12:58:11 AM
This is a classic/historic CD of British music, conducted by Constant Lambert (there is a companion disc with Lambert's own music featured).  The CD below features an excellent (historic) performance of "Symphonic Studies" by Rawsthorne which is, perhaps, his greatest work.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Constant-Lambert-Conductor-Peter-Warlock/dp/B00000JWM4/ref=sr_1_2/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193478872&sr=1-2

"The Curlew" by Peter Warlock is a hauntingly poetic and melancholy song cycle by an interesting composer who eventually committed suicide

There is a good modern recording of Symphonic Studies on Naxos.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 01:33:25 AM
What was Warlock's real name? I always forget.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 27, 2007, 02:32:22 AM
What was Warlock's real name? I always forget.

Philip Heseltine(as in the former Deputy Prime Minister, Michael, but not related-as far as I know!)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 03:12:04 AM
Just read some exciting news in this month's Gramophone: the Lyrita label has joined the fold over at eMusic. Terrific news for those of us who regularly download from that site. For me, it means I can 'risk' a purchase of the Ma recording of Finzi's Cello Concerto without risking very much at all. :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on October 27, 2007, 04:15:29 AM
Great - except I looked on emusic and can't find a way in (to see what they've got) without signing up/registering which I'm reluctant to do until I know what I'm registering into.  Do you happen to know how I can get to their catalogue?

Thanks.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 05:24:43 AM
Great - except I looked on emusic and can't find a way in (to see what they've got) without signing up/registering which I'm reluctant to do until I know what I'm registering into.  Do you happen to know how I can get to their catalogue?

Thanks.

Try this link: http://www.emusic.com/genre/279.html
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on October 27, 2007, 06:11:51 AM
Many thanks for that.  Looks an easy site to use. 

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
Many thanks for that.  Looks an easy site to use. 



It's superb. I've got the Connoisseur 100 subscription, meaning I can (and do) download 100 tracks each month for just £19.99. That's insanely good value for downloads, and results in hauling in anywhere up to 14 albums every 30 days. :D In the last 12 months, I've grabbed around 180 CDs worth of music, I reckon.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 01:58:19 PM
Thought I'd link to this from the old forum:

Early 20th Century English Composers (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4392.0.html)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 27, 2007, 02:31:05 PM
Thought I'd link to this from the old forum:

Early 20th Century English Composers (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4392.0.html)

Fascinating reading! Although I have only just started reading the posts on the old thread I have read the contributions regarding the Havergal Brian symphonies.

As I think that I said before, I was at school with and was/am a close friend of Malcolm MacDonald, THE authority on Brian and the author of the splendid three volume set on Brian's symphonies. As teenagers we were fascinated by Brian(ok, maybe we were slightly odd teenagers!!) and talked endlessly about his music. I still have a copy of Malcolm's first list of all Brian's works, compiled when he was about 17. My own(incredibly modest) contribution was to have a letter published in 'The Scotsman' newspaper at around the same age demanding that Brian be performed in Edinburgh by the (then) SNO....as if!!!

While a young schoolteacher I often bemused my classes by recording radio broadcasts of obscure classical music on a reel-to-reel taperecorder
at the back of the classroom while the pupils were working! In that way I managed to acquire tapes of most of Brian's symphonies as they were broadcast by the BBC in the 1970s(through the inspired commitment and dedicated support of the composer Robert Simpson who worked for the BBC until he quit in disgust!).

OH for a machine which would allow me to resurrect these tapes-stored in my attic!!!

I certainly have favourites amongst the symphonies- Nos.1-4, 6, 7-10, 16 for example, but I also rather liked No.14(which Malcolm always considered one of the weakest, if not the weakest, Brian symphony). Yes, it is popmpous but I happen to like pompous music :)

Marco Polo...WHY did you stop?? Why don't you re-start the series? After all, the label-or at least its 'cheaper sister' Naxos-has gone on to record VERY obscure repertoire since then! How many 19th century violin concertos do they intend to record?? If they can start a Luis Freitas Branco series(Portugese symphonist pre Joly Braga Santos) then SURELY they can return to HB??

Sorry.....I could ramble away about Havergal Brian for hours as I did when I was 17/18 :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 02:38:24 PM
As I think that I said before, I was at school with and was/am a close friend of Malcolm MacDonald ...

The guy who reviews for BBC Music magazine as Calum MacDonald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_MacDonald_%28music_critic%29)? Tell him from me that when he likes a CD, so do I. I'm no fan of reviewers in general, but I've come to trust his even-handed judgement and good musical sense. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on October 27, 2007, 02:38:29 PM
I'd be very interested in a further discussion of Bliss.  Since I first heard it about 3 years ago, I've been obsessed with Morning Heroes, probably his greatest work.  Does he have any other works that are equally good?  I know Rout, the Color Symphony, some of the film scores (i.e., Things to Come), Checkmate, the oboe quintent, and a couple other pieces, and while much of it is excellent, I haven't found another Bliss masterpiece on the level of Morning Heroes.  Does anyone know his opera The Olympians?  Apparently there is one obscure (live) recording.

andrew


I adore Bliss music, and perhaps my three favourite orchestral works are contained on this CD:

http://www.amazon.com/Bliss-Cello-Concerto-Music-Strings/dp/B00000147T/ref=sr_1_2/002-1405439-7612854?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193527543&sr=8-2

My review is the 'Finzi and Barber fan' one. Hard to believe I wrote that two years ago!

Here's what I said about the Bliss cello concerto on another thread from the old forum

http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,10655.msg318310.html#msg318310
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on October 27, 2007, 02:59:05 PM
It's superb. I've got the Connoisseur 100 subscription, meaning I can (and do) download 100 tracks each month for just £19.99. That's insanely good value for downloads, and results in hauling in anywhere up to 14 albums every 30 days. :D In the last 12 months, I've grabbed around 180 CDs worth of music, I reckon.

So this looks almost too good to be true.  Do I read it correctly that for a subscription of, as a starter, £8.99 I can download 30 albums (ie clicking the tab beneath the list that says "download all") or do I just get 30 tracks?   

Thank you for drawing this too my attention.   It looks good.  Some interesting modern/avant garde work there. 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 03:06:40 PM
So this looks almost too good to be true.  Do I read it correctly that for a subscription of, as a starter, £8.99 I can download 30 albums (ie clicking the tab beneath the list that says "download all") or do I just get 30 tracks?  

Thank you for drawing this too my attention.   It looks good.  Some interesting modern/avant garde work there. 

For £8.99, it's 30 tracks. Don't forget to use this link (http://www.emusic.com/promo/25freeuk/index.html?fref=700384&refsrc=google&gclid=CNz9vPKksI8CFRMXQgodgkDdTA) when you sign up, not the one I gave you earlier. This way, you'll get a 14-day free trial with 25 free tracks which are yours to keep even if you cancel at the end of the trial period (but believe me, you won't want to do that ;D). So what you'll get are 55 downloads in your first month, just for signing up for the £8.99 a month package. Cool, huh? And guess what? You can cancel at any time - though think carefully about this: by sticking with your subscription plan, you can re-download any purchased tracks repeatedly for free. Handy if your PC fails. ;) Cancel, and you lose this option (though your original purchases remain unaffected).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 27, 2007, 03:18:14 PM
The guy who reviews for BBC Music magazine as Calum MacDonald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_MacDonald_%28music_critic%29)? Tell him from me that when he likes a CD, so do I. I'm no fan of reviewers in general, but I've come to trust his even-handed judgement and good musical sense. :)

The very same.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on October 27, 2007, 03:18:35 PM
Do the artists get the same amount of royalties?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 03:26:23 PM
Do the artists get the same amount of royalties?

You talking about eMusic? Yes: it's a well-established, legitimate business that doesn't leave copyright holders out of pocket, AFAIK. Of course, that means the record labels do okay out of it ... ::)

The very same.

Kudos. 8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on October 27, 2007, 11:59:10 PM
You talking about eMusic? Yes: it's a well-established, legitimate business that doesn't leave copyright holders out of pocket, AFAIK. Of course, that means the record labels do okay out of it ... ::)

I doubt Richard Itter and Wyastone/Nimbus would enter something that denies them their money back.  I'm not sure who is going to underwrite the Lyrita reissues that flop, probably Mr Itter.   But the contract with Wyastone did include "...In order to satisfy international demand for the label Wyastone and Lyrita have agreed to introduce simultaneously, physical product which will be widely distributed, available directly and via the Internet, and a downloading facility." (from an email reply to me about certain reissues).  So...good on them.

Edit....I'll probably sign up once the next batch of Lyritas comes out.  I have two CDs on pre-order at the moment (Baines and Frank Bridge) and want to support MDT and their low prices...and the hope they'll continue to distribute this label until the catalogue is complete.  Strange that MDT don't do Dutton though....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 28, 2007, 12:37:12 AM
Fascinating reading! Although I have only just started reading the posts on the old thread I have read the contributions regarding the Havergal Brian symphonies.

As I think that I said before, I was at school with and was/am a close friend of Malcolm MacDonald, THE authority on Brian and the author of the splendid three volume set on Brian's symphonies. As teenagers we were fascinated by Brian(ok, maybe we were slightly odd teenagers!!) and talked endlessly about his music. I still have a copy of Malcolm's first list of all Brian's works, compiled when he was about 17. My own(incredibly modest) contribution was to have a letter published in 'The Scotsman' newspaper at around the same age demanding that Brian be performed in Edinburgh by the (then) SNO....as if!!!

While a young schoolteacher I often bemused my classes by recording radio broadcasts of obscure classical music on a reel-to-reel taperecorder
at the back of the classroom while the pupils were working! In that way I managed to acquire tapes of most of Brian's symphonies as they were broadcast by the BBC in the 1970s(through the inspired commitment and dedicated support of the composer Robert Simpson who worked for the BBC until he quit in disgust!).

OH for a machine which would allow me to resurrect these tapes-stored in my attic!!!

I certainly have favourites amongst the symphonies- Nos.1-4, 6, 7-10, 16 for example, but I also rather liked No.14(which Malcolm always considered one of the weakest, if not the weakest, Brian symphony). Yes, it is popmpous but I happen to like pompous music :)

Marco Polo...WHY did you stop?? Why don't you re-start the series? After all, the label-or at least its 'cheaper sister' Naxos-has gone on to record VERY obscure repertoire since then! How many 19th century violin concertos do they intend to record?? If they can start a Luis Freitas Branco series(Portugese symphonist pre Joly Braga Santos) then SURELY they can return to HB??

Sorry.....I could ramble away about Havergal Brian for hours as I did when I was 17/18 :)


Interesting post. Totally agree about Marco Polo/Naxos Havergal Brian Series. The Ivanovs series on Campion has also evidently run into the sands. My favourite Brian symphonies (of the ones I know) Nos 1,3,6-10, 16,22.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 28, 2007, 06:48:58 PM
Just received my copies of two recent Dutton releases-the Symphony in A minor by Thomas F. Dunhill coupled with Richard Arnell's "Lord Byron-a symphonic study" and Erik Chisholm's 2nd Symphony "Ossian" coupled with a song cycle "The Unreturning Spring" by Trevor Hold and two short pieces by Eric Fogg "Sea Sheen" and "Merok".

Not quite sure what I make of the Dunhill yet except that it does sound like an attempt to write a serious symphony by someone who was more used to writing light music. The Arnell, on the other hand, is bracing music, as we are now discovering, by a master orchestrator.

The other CD really is an odd collection. Chisholm's symphony dates from 1939 and is quite a grim work in the style of that time, reflecting the tensions of the thirties, flecked by tragedy-a little Baxian perhaps?. The Hold song-cycle was written between 1961-1963 and is much more modern sounding music, influenced perhaps by late Britten and certainly by Messiaen. Finally, the two pieces by Eric Fogg return the listener to much lighter music from 1919 and 1929 respectively. Fogg-who died when he fell in front of a tube train at London's Waterloo Station on the day before his intended second marriage(!)-wrote "Sea Sheen" when he was in his teens. The work was published when he was 17 in 1920(although the CD booklet says that it was first performed in Bournemouth on 24 March 1919 when he would have only just been 16!).  I am not sure that putting these three works together quite works and I certainly will not play the CD right through again-the contrasts seem to jar!

If anyone else buys these two CDs I would be interested to learn of different reactions to the music!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2007, 03:46:15 AM
Just received my copies of two recent Dutton releases-the Symphony in A minor by Thomas F. Dunhill coupled with Richard Arnell's "Lord Byron-a symphonic study" and Erik Chisholm's 2nd Symphony "Ossian" coupled with a song cycle "The Unreturning Spring" by Trevor Hold and two short pieces by Eric Fogg "Sea Sheen" and "Merok".

Not quite sure what I make of the Dunhill yet except that it does sound like an attempt to write a serious symphony by someone who was more used to writing light music. The Arnell, on the other hand, is bracing music, as we are now discovering, by a master orchestrator.

The other CD really is an odd collection. Chisholm's symphony dates from 1939 and is quite a grim work in the style of that time, reflecting the tensions of the thirties, flecked by tragedy-a little Baxian perhaps?. The Hold song-cycle was written between 1961-1963 and is much more modern sounding music, influenced perhaps by late Britten and certainly by Messiaen. Finally, the two pieces by Eric Fogg return the listener to much lighter music from 1919 and 1929 respectively. Fogg-who died when he fell in front of a tube train at London's Waterloo Station on the day before his intended second marriage(!)-wrote "Sea Sheen" when he was in his teens. The work was published when he was 17 in 1920(although the CD booklet says that it was first performed in Bournemouth on 24 March 1919 when he would have only just been 16!).  I am not sure that putting these three works together quite works and I certainly will not play the CD right through again-the contrasts seem to jar!

If anyone else buys these two CDs I would be interested to learn of different reactions to the music!

My identical package arrived this morning (surprise surprise!). I'll let you know what I think in due course.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on October 29, 2007, 07:00:47 AM
Did anyone mention John Foulds?

Eugen d'Albert, och aye?

Georges Onslow's father was English.

Beethoven had links to England and was given a Broadwood.

Berlioz married an Irish actress when Ireland was part of the UK.

Dame Ethel Smyth?

Balfe?

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 29, 2007, 07:02:26 AM
Georges Onslow's father was English.

Old Eleven-Waters, eh? (Onze-l'eau . . . .)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 29, 2007, 09:34:26 AM
Did anyone mention John Foulds?

Not heard much Foulds, but liked what little I have.

Which reminds me, tune in to Radio 3 on November 11th at 6:30pm for the first performance in over 80 years of Fould's massive, A World Requiem. I'll capture it on my PVR and (eventually, along with several BBC Proms concerts from the 2007 season) post it up here for download. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 29, 2007, 01:19:52 PM
Not heard much Foulds, but liked what little I have.

Which reminds me, tune in to Radio 3 on November 11th at 6:30pm for the first performance in over 80 years of Fould's massive, A World Requiem. I'll capture it on my PVR and (eventually, along with several BBC Proms concerts from the 2007 season) post it up here for download. ;)

I understand that Chandos are recording the concert for future CD release.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 29, 2007, 02:08:58 PM
I understand that Chandos are recording the concert for future CD release.

Great. In the meantime, let's have it for free. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on October 30, 2007, 05:04:02 AM
Not heard much Foulds, but liked what little I have.

Which reminds me, tune in to Radio 3 on November 11th at 6:30pm for the first performance in over 80 years of Fould's massive, A World Requiem. I'll capture it on my PVR and (eventually, along with several BBC Proms concerts from the 2007 season) post it up here for download. ;)

That's a Sunday. I'll do the same.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on October 30, 2007, 05:07:14 AM
Old Eleven-Waters, eh? (Onze-l'eau . . . .)

He should have been Surlent, surely (surlently?). His career might have lasted longer.

Listening to his 4th Symphony the other evening and the theme of the last movement was left, pleasingly, in my memory.

Happy soul, Georges (who wouldn't be with his money?).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 30, 2007, 08:34:47 AM
That's a Sunday. I'll do the same.

Good man. Then at least one of us will have it covered. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on October 30, 2007, 09:14:29 AM
Thanks for this, Karl. I trust Moody's work is easily enough sourced on CD?

The recording I should most warmly recommend is Cappella Romana singing the Akáthistos Hymn on a two-for-one-priced Gothic recording (http://www.gothic-catalog.com/product_p/g-49210.htm).

One brief work is available on each of two discs by the superb vocal group, Tapestry (the Telarc recordings The Fourth River and Come Into My Garden), and I think similarly there is a fleeting Moody presence on a brace of Trio Mediaeval discs.

Red Byrd and Capella Amsterdam do a fine job of Ivan's Passion and Resurrection; only be cautioned that it is a full-price Hyperion disc.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 30, 2007, 09:22:05 AM
The recording I should most warmly recommend is Cappella Romana singing the Akáthistos Hymn on a two-for-one-priced Gothic recording (http://www.gothic-catalog.com/product_p/g-49210.htm).

One brief work is available on each of two discs by the superb vocal group, Tapestry (the Telarc recordings The Fourth River and Come Into My Garden), and I think similarly there is a fleeting Moody presence on a brace of Trio Mediaeval discs.

Red Byrd and Capella Amsterdam do a fine job of Ivan's Passion and Resurrection; only be cautioned that it is a full-price Hyperion disc.

Much appreciated, Karl. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 30, 2007, 02:05:23 PM

Interesting post. Totally agree about Marco Polo/Naxos Havergal Brian Series. The Ivanovs series on Campion has also evidently run into the sands. My favourite Brian symphonies (of the ones I know) Nos 1,3,6-10, 16,22.

Good to see two other Brian enthusiasts. Funny that Dundonnell remembers being a very strange teenager, obsessed by Brian. He was not alone. In the absence of any music I read Malcolm MacDonald's description of Symphony no. 16 aloud to my friends... I'm talking about the early 'eighties here, and Amsterdam (I'm Dutch). Later on we did get hold of the Lyrita 6 & 16, and what a revelation that was!

Brian symphonies that really stand out for me are 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 19, 22, 24, 27, 28, 30, 31. I like the tone-poem Elegy very much, and Brian's songs are often haunting. And anyone who has heard the comic opera The Tigers, won't forget that work either.

Apart from Brian, I love Delius (Requiem, Idyll, Cynara, Sea-Drift, Songs of Sunset et cetera), Bax, (symphonies and tone-poems) RVW (symphonies 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9 and other pieces, like The lark ascending and the Tallis Fantasia), Moeran (symphony, concerti) and Elgar (symphonies, concerti).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2007, 03:10:40 AM
That's a Sunday. I'll do the same.

I'm going to the concert; will let you know what it's like.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on October 31, 2007, 04:59:02 AM
I'm going to the concert; will let you know what it's like.

Get a PVR and Freeview. You can record the whole thing!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 31, 2007, 05:31:27 AM
Good to see two other Brian enthusiasts. Funny that Dundonnell remembers being a very strange teenager, obsessed by Brian. He was not alone. In the absence of any music I read Malcolm MacDonald's description of Symphony no. 16 aloud to my friends... I'm talking about the early 'eighties here, and Amsterdam (I'm Dutch). Later on we did get hold of the Lyrita 6 & 16, and what a revelation that was!

Brian symphonies that really stand out for me are 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 19, 22, 24, 27, 28, 30, 31. I like the tone-poem Elegy very much, and Brian's songs are often haunting. And anyone who has heard the comic opera The Tigers, won't forget that work either.

Apart from Brian, I love Delius (Requiem, Idyll, Cynara, Sea-Drift, Songs of Sunset et cetera), Bax, (symphonies and tone-poems) RVW (symphonies 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9 and other pieces, like The lark ascending and the Tallis Fantasia), Moeran (symphony, concerti) and Elgar (symphonies, concerti).

No, I don't remember being a very strange teenager! It is only in retrospect that I think we might have been! At the time everyone else was strange! :)

It is nice to hear that you read extracts aloud from Malcolm's book in the 1980s. He and I discussed compositions which-like you at that time-we had not actually heard but which just sounded so amazing that he determined that he would do his best to find out more...which of course he has!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on October 31, 2007, 02:34:24 PM
Get a PVR and Freeview. You can record the whole thing!

;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on November 04, 2007, 04:05:50 PM
For those who haven't yet heard this, please do consider the following Lyrita reissue:

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/27/986227.jpg)

Not the greatest interpretation of the Cello Concerto (I've yet to hear the Clarinet Concerto), but a vast improvement on Wallfisch's outing with Handley on Chandos.

Unreservedly recommended. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: drogulus on November 04, 2007, 04:54:15 PM
I listened to Vaughan Williams today (Tallis Fantasia etc on Naxos). I don't know what I am missing in his music but I find it boring. Nothing seems to happen. It's all white snow to me.

 ???

     It's a fantasia, which tells you not to expect a lot of development of the symphonic kind. You're right, not much happens, but it doesn't happen beautifully, which is all that matters. You could liken it to Elgar's Elegy or Sospiri, two of Elgar's loveliest works for strings, though on a larger scale.


     
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on November 04, 2007, 10:58:45 PM
You're right, not much happens, but it doesn't happen beautifully, which is all that matters.

And that's beautifully put. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on November 07, 2007, 06:34:59 AM
R3 has started to advertise Foulds' 'War Requiem,' unperformed since its first performance, today.

Sunday, be there or be...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on November 07, 2007, 06:36:57 AM
R3 has started to advertise Foulds' 'War Requiem,' unperformed since its first performance, today.

Sunday, be there or be...

Thanks for the reminder. ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 08, 2007, 02:27:54 AM
The "Independent" (UK) had a big article about Foulds yesterday (Wednesday). I'm looking forward to the concert.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 08, 2007, 02:52:20 AM
Found the Foulds article. Thanks for the hint! (The writer, Jessica Duchen, has also written an excellent book on Korngold, btw)

http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article3136021.ece
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Grazioso on November 08, 2007, 04:36:28 AM
Here's one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/613YW0VPGXL._AA240_.jpg)

A mid-Victorian woman symphonist (odd in itself) who actually got her works performed and applauded in her lifetime. Good stuff.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on November 08, 2007, 04:59:58 AM
Oh, it would have been applauded, surely. The Victorians were nothing if not polite  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on November 08, 2007, 05:35:36 AM
Found the Foulds article. Thanks for the hint! (The writer, Jessica Duchen, has also written an excellent book on Korngold, btw)

http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article3136021.ece

Sorry, it is a 'World Requiem' and not a 'War Requiem.'

My error.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on November 08, 2007, 06:29:42 AM
'World Requiem', death of the world?

Bummer.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on November 08, 2007, 06:49:03 AM
'World Requiem', death of the world?

Bummer.

And for him, it was. :(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 08, 2007, 07:04:24 AM
A World War deserves a World Requiem.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JoshLilly on November 08, 2007, 07:35:44 AM
Oh, it would have been applauded, surely. The Victorians were nothing if not polite  8)


Actually, I have the Alice Mary Smith CD, and I really like the music. I applaud it on its own merits, not because I'm polite - which I'm not anyway! I've got a number - hundreds - of CDs that get one or two listens and hit a shelf to practically collect dust, but this is not among them.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Grazioso on November 09, 2007, 04:43:30 AM
Oh, it would have been applauded, surely. The Victorians were nothing if not polite  8)

I was of course using "applauded" in the broader, figurative sense of "receiving praise," though I'm sure the audiences did indeed clap politely, too :) It's some really good music. She's a composer I'd very much like to hear more of.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Hector on November 09, 2007, 07:03:11 AM
A World War deserves a World Requiem.

Absolutely.

We'll all know whether Foulds was up to the task on Sunday, or some of us will!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: drogulus on November 09, 2007, 02:33:33 PM
     Thank you. :) And may the British Composers thread continue to prosper. 0:)

      Edit: My, this post looks funny sitting here all by its lonesome.  ???
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on November 10, 2007, 02:44:40 AM
     Thank you. :) And may the British Composers thread continue to prosper. 0:)

And thank you.

I wasn't sure how much folks would use this thread when I began it, but it does appear to have become a home for we Anglo-composer-philes. ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Thom on November 10, 2007, 03:53:28 AM
I wonder what you (we!) 'Anglo-composer-philes' (if i may quote Mark)  think of Havergal Brial. I am asking because at the moment I am listening to his 3d symphony, which pleases me greatly. I don't feel much about his Gothic, but the 3d is impressive, on a large scale (almost one hour) and with a huge orchestra, but that may be Brian's trademark more or less, judging from his Gothic Symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on November 10, 2007, 04:08:43 AM
I wonder what you (we!) 'Anglo-composer-philes' (if i may quote Mark)  think of Havergal Brial. I am asking because at the moment I am listening to his 3d symphony, which pleases me greatly. I don't feel much about his Gothic, but the 3d is impressive, on a large scale (almost one hour) and with a huge orchestra, but that may be Brian's trademark more or less, judging from his Gothic Symphony.

If you meant 'Brian' I see that Naxos has recently released his 2nd Symphony.  Listening to the extracts tempts me to buy it.  Can't go wrong at that price.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Thom on November 10, 2007, 04:11:35 AM
If you meant 'Brian'   

Yes I did, slip of the pen, sorry.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 10, 2007, 04:24:26 AM
As a confirmed Brianite I'd like to recommend the twofer from EMI, with symphonies 7, 8, 9 and 31. Great performances, glorious sound. You can't go wrong with those. And Lyrita will be re-issuing 6 and 16 in the near future - another CD to watch out for.

@ XXXPawn: what is it you don't like about the Gothic? The first three, purely instrumental, movements are surely in the same league as the Third?!

@ Anancho: I personally don't care much for the Naxos Second (the Finale comes off best, I think), but I do care about the Second. I heard a radio performance under Sir Charles Mackerras which was much more persuasive and much better played... But as a means of getting to know the work at all, and at that price, I woudn't say no to the Naxos either!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on November 10, 2007, 06:26:24 AM
You're probably right - the extracts are rarely of serious listening quality and I couldn't be bothered to connect the PC to the amp.  But it's something I might explore.   I'll try to borrow it in view of what you say.   
I have a radio recording of the Gothic from around 1980, on tapes and I transferred it to CD (the orchestra wasn't noted but I suspect it's the BBCSO + a few choirs and extras).  It does have something that the Marco Polo doesn't - at least, the sound doesn't feel so constricted.     
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on November 10, 2007, 06:33:23 AM
I see that the Lyrita November releases have appeared at last.   They seem a little late.   I was hoping for more adventurous fare than the December lot.   I await the Bax 2 and 5 and the Robert Still Symphonies.   Never mind.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 10, 2007, 06:39:03 AM
I have a radio recording of the Gothic from around 1980, on tapes and I transferred it to CD (the orchestra wasn't noted but I suspect it's the BBCSO + a few choirs and extras).  It does have something that the Marco Polo doesn't - at least, the sound doesn't feel so constricted.     

That has to be the Ole Schmidt performance. More about this (if you're interested) here:

http://www.havergalbrian.org/choirworks.htm
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: drogulus on November 10, 2007, 06:45:06 AM


     Re Brian recordings:

     Isn't there a Boult recording of the Gothic somewhere? Perhaps unreleased....or was it a radio performance? This would have been the late '60s, I think.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 10, 2007, 06:49:47 AM
There was a pirated (Aries) recording of the 1966 Boult performance. I still regard that as the best there is.

I have it on cassette, but found it (as flac files) on Usenet a few months ago...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Thom on November 10, 2007, 07:53:31 AM

@ XXXPawn: what is it you don't like about the Gothic? The first three, purely instrumental, movements are surely in the same league as the Third?!


Yes you're absolutely right. I forgot. I was probably preoccupied by the immense choraL/vocal remainder of this work.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on November 10, 2007, 03:44:52 PM
Just a reminder to anyone who plans to record the John Foulds 'A World Requiem' performance on Radio 3 from 6:30pm to 8pm on Sunday, November 11th: don't forget to set your PVR's timer. ;)

Oh, and those who have freeview may not have noticed but Radios 1-4 have moved frequency, so you'll first need to re-scan for channels (TV and radio - can't do any harm), then delete any links to the old frequencies for each station - supposing your PVR holds on to such information. I had a panic earlier, when I switched on to discover Radio 3 wasn't working! :o It is now, because I remembered that there was announcement recently explaining in more detail what I've just outlined above. ;)

Enjoy. :)


Oh, and vandermolen: we expect a report from the event itself, seeing as you'll be there.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on November 10, 2007, 06:01:54 PM
I see that the Lyrita November releases have appeared at last.   They seem a little late.   I was hoping for more adventurous fare than the December lot.   I await the Bax 2 and 5 and the Robert Still Symphonies.   Never mind.   

There are not that many of the original Lyrita LPs still awaiting release on CD.

The current schedule (courtesy of vandermolen) appears to be-

January 2008: Bax Symphony No.2 and Symphony No.5

February 2008: Brian Symphony No.6, Symphony No.16 and Arnold Cooke Symphony No.3

March 2008: David Morgan Violin Concerto + Peter Racine Fricker Violin Concerto
                 Elgar Enigma Variations + Falstaff

April or May 2008: Moeran Cello Concerto

May 2008: Still Symphony No.3 and Symphony No.4

There are also the first two Searle symphonies to be released plus some chamber and instrumental music. One wonders whether there are any more works which were never released on LP. That would certainly be good news!

It will be kind of sad when the releases stop! All these years of waiting!!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: tjguitar on November 10, 2007, 09:26:28 PM
Has anyone picked up the William Busch Piano & Cello Concertos from Lyrita?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on November 11, 2007, 12:57:53 AM
Noticed it.   I'm probably joining this emusic service so I'll try it though that.   

I'm waiting for the Robert Still, Symphonies 3 & 4 (I have a CD transcript of the LP at the mo) and the Ian Parrott/Harries Quartets - absent from my LP source though I had something taped of Parrott's.   Lyrita must have pushed those to the very end.  They told me that they were looking for a filler for the Still disc so I'm hoping they go for the Decca Elegie and Concerto for String Orchestra (SXL 6281).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on November 12, 2007, 06:10:13 AM
Has anyone picked up the William Busch Piano & Cello Concertos from Lyrita?

Just received my copy of this CD. Will let you know what I think!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on November 14, 2007, 06:37:24 AM
I have now listened to the William Busch Piano and Cello Concertos referred to above. Interesting works! The Cello Concerto is slow to give up its secrets and I shall have to listen to it more often. There is a gentle, pastoral melancholy which does, at times, remind of some of the music of Gerald Finzi. It is, however, the Piano Concerto which impresses me more. After what seems a somewhat inconsequential beginning the work grows in force and impact to a quite splendid final movement of real power and drama. I am struggling for influences-certainly not Stravinsky(as the late Hugh Ottaway claimed), clearly Alan Bush(Busch's teacher-that must have been confusing! Apparently they even dressed similarly!!). Tentatively, I might suggest some Prokofiev, some Busoni, certainly a bravura cascade of piano writing against a powerful orchestral accompaniment.

I would definitely say that the Piano Concerto at least is well worth reviving and stands comparison with the other fine British Piano Concertos written in the 1930s-Alwyn 1st(1930), Ireland(1930), Vaughan Williams(1931), Alan Bush(1937), and the Bliss and Britten(both 1938). (The 1930s also had Bax 'Winter Legends'(1930) and Rubbra's Sinfonia Concertante(1934) plus Rubbra's withdrawn Piano Concerto of 1930).

It would be interesting to hear other opinions??
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2007, 04:49:45 AM
EMI British Composers series has some interesting issues, connected with Armistice Day, this month. Bliss's "Morning Heroes" conducted by Charles Groves (his greatest recording I think) makes a long awaited return. It is a great performance of a fine work, narrated here by the late John Westbrook, who is, by far, the best of the narrators in the three vesrions I have heard. It is couled with Simon Rattle's version of Britten's War Requiem. Also issued is a lovely CD of choral and orchestral music by Cyril Rootham (whose fine 1st Symphony was recently issued on Lyrita). Frank Bridge's haunting, troubled and deeply moving "Oration" (Isserlis/Hickox) is back with Britten's Cello Symphony as is Michael Berkeley's oratorio "Or Shall We Die" with choral music from Paul Patterson. An interesting selection of reissues.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on November 18, 2007, 07:31:44 AM
Just a reminder to anyone who plans to record the John Foulds 'A World Requiem' performance on Radio 3 from 6:30pm to 8pm on Sunday, November 11th: don't forget to set your PVR's timer. ;)

Oh, and those who have freeview may not have noticed but Radios 1-4 have moved frequency, so you'll first need to re-scan for channels (TV and radio - can't do any harm), then delete any links to the old frequencies for each station - supposing your PVR holds on to such information. I had a panic earlier, when I switched on to discover Radio 3 wasn't working! :o It is now, because I remembered that there was announcement recently explaining in more detail what I've just outlined above. ;)

Enjoy. :)


Oh, and vandermolen: we expect a report from the event itself, seeing as you'll be there.

So.....what about the Foulds 'World Requiem' then? Not having been able to listen to the radio broadcast I am anxious to know what the work was actually like! Chandos appears to be rushing out the CD of the performance in January!

Oh and any one else got any comments on the Busch concerti CD from Lyrita?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Thom on November 18, 2007, 07:35:25 AM
So.....what about the Foulds 'World Requiem' then? Not having been able to listen to the radio broadcast I am anxious to know what the work was actually like! Chandos appears to be rushing out the CD of the performance in January!

Oh and any one else got any comments on the Busch concerti CD from Lyrita?

If you care you can dowload the concert. I uploaded it to mediafire and rapidshare. Look
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3505.msg108244.html#msg108244 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3505.msg108244.html#msg108244)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on November 18, 2007, 07:55:53 AM
Thanks for that info'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2007, 03:21:09 PM
So.....what about the Foulds 'World Requiem' then? Not having been able to listen to the radio broadcast I am anxious to know what the work was actually like! Chandos appears to be rushing out the CD of the performance in January!

Oh and any one else got any comments on the Busch concerti CD from Lyrita?

There's a separate thread for the Foulds "World Requiem" under General Classical Music Discussion.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on November 18, 2007, 04:14:49 PM
There's a separate thread for the Foulds "World Requiem" under General Classical Music Discussion.

...scurries off to the General Classical Music Discussion section where he should have been looking a week ago :-[
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on November 27, 2007, 07:15:51 AM
Has anyone picked up the William Busch Piano & Cello Concertos from Lyrita?

Yes! I just recieved today. An absolutely fantastic disc. The cello concerto is the closest in style to the Finzi concerto that I have ever heard - so anyone who likes that masterpiece should certainly get this CD (even if the piece doesn't quite live up to the mastery of the Finzi). The writing is just beautiful throughout - That Florence hootn had a knack of premiering superb works! (She also premiered the Bridge Oration, his orchestral greatest masterpiece).

The piano concerto is equally beguiling, a little lighter in tone, but another major conribution to the English piano concerto repertoire.

The music is suffused with that typical yearning melancholy that is so attractive in English music. I have no idea why the liner notes keep referring to his music as sparse and craggy.

The recordings are absolutely first class, with both soloists at their best. I have expressed reservation about some of Wallfisch's previous recordings but I can say that he is at his best here.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JoshLilly on November 27, 2007, 09:48:30 AM
I'm certainly glad that I got my latest CD! It just arrived last week, and I've spent more than a little time with it. It is in the Hyperion "Romantic Violin Concerto" series, and contains the violin concerti of English composers Samuel Coleridge-Taylor and Arthur Somervell.

Coleridge-Taylor's Violin Concerto is definitely worth more than a single runthrough. Now, listening to two pieces of his and liking both, makes me interested in finding something else, such as Hiawatha, which I've never even heard. This violin concerto doesn't rank among my very favourites, but it's definitely something I'll come back to in the future. Coleridge-Taylor had a real gift for flowing, lyrical music, at least as far as I can gather from 2 pieces.
 
I don't like the Somervell nearly as much, but I do like it. I'm amazed and pleasantly surprised that this was written in the 1930s! I only wish more 20th century orchestral music sounded like this. This is probably the most chronologically recent concerto that I've found that I can tolerate, at least so far. It has its moments that I find unpleasant, but I suppose I'm not surprised. The first movement is a little overlong to me. But all told, it's a nice, enjoyable work. Would be delighted to find more in a similar vein.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on November 27, 2007, 09:52:50 AM
I only wish more 20th century orchestral music sounded like this.

Oh, dear.

I mean, I think I understand the sentiment.

But . . . oh, dear.  That is all.  0:)
Title: Ivan Moody [The British Composers Thread]
Post by: karlhenning on March 04, 2008, 09:46:51 AM
Mark, you had asked after opportunities to hear Ivan's work.

I am delighted to say that there are a couple of videos on youtube, sharing between them a performance of his Passione populare:

Part I

http://www.youtube.com/v/74Pdhe9YT9A

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/v/ldIHm4rPFLU&NR
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark on March 04, 2008, 10:18:47 AM
Splendid, Karl. Thank you! :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on March 05, 2008, 06:09:45 AM
I really liked these;  and it turned out that I know the conductor who coached the singers.  Who in turn did not realize that Ivan and I know one another  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on March 21, 2008, 09:49:51 AM
I notice a few interesting Lyrita reissues due in the near future.

The one that grabbed my interest was SRCD265:
Elisabeth Lutyens: Quincunx and "Suddenly it's Evening"
c/w
David Bedford: Music for Albion Moonlight.

I know these works well but was surprised that Lyrita took them up.  They don't seem in keeping with the rest of the Lyrita catalogue, all exploratory though I find the David Bedford somewhat beautiful if chilling. 

I'll be getting this and the Havergal Brian / Arnold Cooke (SRCD295)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 21, 2008, 09:56:17 AM
I'll be getting this and the Havergal Brian / Arnold Cooke (SRCD295)

Sensible, very sensible.

But why do you 'find the David Bedford somewhat beautiful if chilling'? That's a very intriguing characterization!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on March 21, 2008, 03:51:10 PM
The release that appeals to me is SRCD335 coupling the recently deceased Alun Hoddinott's Horn Concerto, the Don Banks Horn Concerto, Humphrey Searle's Aubade for Horn and Strings(all with Barry Tuckwell as soloist) and the Nicholas Maw Sonata for Strings and Two Horns(with Alan Civil and Ian Harper as soloists). Challenging works perhaps(though probably not as much as the Lutyens!).

Lyrita are also releasing this month the recording of Moeran's Cello Concerto played by his widow Peers Coetmore. There are many who think that her recording is a 'dud' and 'unlistenable'(not everyone agrees with this damning verdict). I think that I shall stick with the Chandos version with Raphael Wallfisch.

Lyrita are fast running out of music to release from their original LP stock. I reckon that only SRCS 46-the Robert Still Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2, SRCS 52-chamber music by Parrott, Harries and Wynne, SRCS 72-the Humphrey Searle Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2 and SRCS 77-the Elgar Falstaff and Enigma Variations(Andrew Davis) still remain to be reissued.

I know that the Still symphonies are being coupled with that composer's Concerto for Strings and Elegie for baritone, chorus and small orchestra(from the Decca LP SXL 6281). Interestingly, Still-who had independent financial means-paid for the cost of all of the recordings of his own music! The performance of his 3rd symphony was the last recording made by Sir Eugene Goossens before his death.

There is an excellent website devoted to Robert Still-www.grahammusto.btinternet.co.uk/RStill.htm

I hope that Lyrita can find space on the Searle CD when it is released for the two other works on the original LP release of the 1st symphony-Matyas Seiber's Elegy for Viola and Small Orchestra and the hugely impressive and extremely chilling(yes that word again, Jezetha!) Chamber Cantata 'Three Fragments from "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" '.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 21, 2008, 04:01:09 PM
I never knew there was so much 'chilling' (British) music around!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on March 21, 2008, 04:13:31 PM
I never knew there was so much 'chilling' (British) music around!
Well I can tell you that it is absolutely freezing in Scotland just now! Snow on the way, apparently!

Seriously, the Seiber Cantata is as 'chilling' as you can get, an absolutely masterly use of that passage which I can't resist quoting in full-

"..the last day had come. The doomsday was at hand. The stars of heaven were falling upon the earth like the figs cast by the fig tree which the wind has shaken. The sun, the great luminary of the universe had become as sackcloth of hair. The moon was blood red. The firmament was as a scroll rolled away. The archangel Michael, the prince of the heavenly host appeared glorious and terrible against the sky. With one foot in the sea and one foot on the land he blew from the archangelic trumpet the brazen death of time. The three blasts filled all the universe. Time is, time was, but time shall be no more".

As spoken by Peter Pears in the old LP recording that passage always froze me to the marrow!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 21, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
It's been some time since I last read Joyce's 'Portrait', but I think the passage is part of a 'fire and brimstone' sermon a priest preaches to put the fear of God into his pupils.

And we're getting the weather you are having with only a few hours' delay...

I'm turning in. It's late.

Johan
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: lukeottevanger on March 22, 2008, 03:42:49 AM
...The sun, the great luminary of the universe...

Also, of course, the source of the eponymous Hoddinott piece.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on March 23, 2008, 01:28:16 PM
It would be a shame if, while Lyrita are reissuing old Argo recordings, they can't do the Lutyens "O Saisons O Chateaux" (with the Benjamin Britten Prelude and Fugue), RPO/Del Mar.  ZRG754.   

The Lutyens seems a pleasant enough work - far from the challenge of Quincunx.  Hasn't been re-recorded since as far as I know.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2008, 04:00:24 PM
It would be a shame if, while Lyrita are reissuing old Argo recordings, they can't do the Lutyens "O Saisons O Chateaux" (with the Benjamin Britten Prelude and Fugue), RPO/Del Mar.  ZRG754.   

The Lutyens seems a pleasant enough work - far from the challenge of Quincunx.  Hasn't been re-recorded since as far as I know.

Elizabeth Lutyens was a VERY odd woman! Reference the waspish mini-biography http://www.musicweb-international.com/lutyens/index.htm
by David Wright on Musicweb.

I have always resented her dislike of 'the cowpat school of British music' by which she meant composers like Vaughan Williams. Still, I suppose that Benjamin Britten was not exactly a fan of VW either so one must not be prejudiced against her music because of that!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Montpellier on March 26, 2008, 03:32:08 AM
Elizabeth Lutyens was a VERY odd woman! Reference the waspish mini-biography http://www.musicweb-international.com/lutyens/index.htm
by David Wright on Musicweb.
Which no doubt accounts for her unusual music, oddly beautiful at times such as Elegy to the Flowers and O Saisons O Chateaux (about which I was wrong up there - it appeared on record on Red Leaves by the Brunel Ensemble).  One of few "original" voices in british 20c music. 

Quote
I have always resented her dislike of 'the cowpat school of British music' by which she meant composers like Vaughan Williams. Still, I suppose that Benjamin Britten was not exactly a fan of VW either so one must not be prejudiced against her music because of that!
I suspect like many of her ilk she disliked the establishment rather than Vaughan Williams, possibly bracketing him with the many symphonists still working with keys and diatonicism and, as far as she could see, going nowhere.  She didn't have a happy time, as the article in your link shows, and may have felt resentful of composers more at ease and comfortably off. 
I see her point of view while not agreeing with it. 

Certainly an interesting character and one almost forgotten.   However, a respectable number of years has passed since her demise so one might expect another attempt at revival soon.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Szykneij on April 05, 2008, 03:51:02 PM
I just came across a Musical Heritage Society recording of Six Concerti for Strings, Op. 2 composed by the English cellist John Hebden (1712-1765). These are delightful pieces, worthy of more recognition than they currently possess. Unfortunately for Hebden, Italy or Germany was the place to be for composing fame and fortune during his day, so he worked long hours as an orchestral player to earn his keep. While he composed many pieces performed by professional chamber players around York, he only published two works: the string concerti and "Six Solos for German Flute". Is anyone familiar with either of these?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on September 21, 2008, 04:41:18 PM
Is anyone familiar with Rebecca Clarke's music? I just heard her Viola Sonata and I am just bowled over by the brilliance of this work. Utterly fantastic - by turns lyrical, passionate, vibrant and nostalgic this must surely rank amng the best viola sonatas out there... I have just seen that there is a cello verson too. Must get onto that and also the Rhapsody for cello and piano...

Morpheus for viola and piano is a beautiful celtic/impressionistic sounding lament. I also have heard the lovely Passacaglia on a an old English Theme for cello and piano.

I cannot recommend these piece enough - I love making discoveries like this!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 04, 2008, 09:22:41 AM
I'd always considered Dame Ethel Smyth (1858-1944) to be something of a joke figure in British music. However, I listened to an interesting radio programme about her the other day and hearing some extracts from her beautiful and moving Concerto for Violin, Horn and Orchesta suggests that I may have seriously misjudged her.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2008, 10:00:55 AM
Sir Adrian Boult to Dame Ethel when she turned up uninvited to a rehearsal of some of her music-

"Good morning, Dame Ethel, and what are your tempi for today?"
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 10:25:23 AM
Sir Adrian Boult to Dame Ethel when she turned up ininvited to a rehearsal of some of her music-

"Good morning, Dame Ethel, and what are your tempi for today?"

 ;D

[I didn't know Sir Adrian could be witty. This sounds more like Sir Thomas...]
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2008, 10:58:46 AM
;D

[I didn't know Sir Adrian could be witty. This sounds more like Sir Thomas...]

Oh yes, Sir Adrian had a dry sense of humour :)

The EMI version of VW's 'Pilgrim's Progress' has a rehearsal session on the second disc and there are some very funny moments :)
The principal trumpet asks if the trumpet players can go away because they have nothing to play but Sir Adrian pretends that he doesn't understand to the orchestra's amusement. The pages of Sir Adrian's score 'crackle' as he turns the pages, the producer complains, so Sir Adrian bangs the score to 'larn' it how to behave, which of course causes the producer to ask what the noise is and Sir Adrian has to confess it was him ;D

He was not a humorist in the Beecham class but he was a much, much nicer human being.

Incidentally, Boult detested Beecham and-for him-used some very strong language to describe how much he did so- "Somehow I used to find him absolutely repulsive both as a man and as a musician, and his treatment of people I knew...so absolutely beastly that his complete neglect of me didn't seem to matter a bit"(1987/89).

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 11:16:18 AM
Interesting, Colin. I wonder - was there, in Boult, perhaps a bit of jalousie de métier, too? Or perhaps even resentment (Beecham was rich)? Don't get me wrong - I admire Boult very much! (And Beecham, too, if only for his championship of Delius...) I am interested in such 'interpersonal dynamics'...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2008, 01:22:36 PM
Huge subject worth a a magazine article at least!

Boult was appointed principal conductor of the BBC Symphony Orchestra in 1930 when the orchestra was established on a full-time basis. He was 41 years old but had already built a very considerable reputation in the 1920s as the principal conductor of the City of Birmingham Orchestra but also as the champion of contemporary British music-especially Elgar, Vaughan Williams and Holst. These were composers in whom Beecham had shown little real interest or sympathy.

Beecham was ten years older and already had a great reputation as a pre-war conductor and musical impresario of great genius. He had almost single-handedly established a flourishing operatic scene in Britain before the war. His sympathies in British music were more with composers like Delius and Bax(of whose somewhat 'liberal' lifestyles Boult disapproved). His outlook on music was however not exactly forward-looking regarding broadcast music and expressed open contempt for much of what the BBC was trying to do at the time.

Unlike Beecham, who almost entirely conducted composers for whose music he had sympathy, Boult regarded his duty at the BBC to conduct as much and as varied a programme as possible to the very best of his abilities. Thus Boult was to conduct Schoenberg, Mahler, Bartok with the BBC Symphony Orchestra.

It is a strange paradox therefore that this upright, Edwardian gentleman, whom Beecham regarded as symbolical of the English musical establishment and as a member of an upper middle-class clique(presumably including VW!) should be so much more adventurous in his musical programming than the independently very wealthy Beecham! Beecham's antipathy to Boult was demonstrated by his total refusal to entertain any notion that Boult should conduct opera. Since Beecham appeared to have effectively controlled Covent Garden in this period Boult was barred from conducting there!

I acknowledge the huge contribution Beecham made to music in Britain for 60 years, in particular to opera before 1914. I recognise the debt which Delians owe to Beecham for his pioneering and wonderful interpretations of that composer's music. Beecham could inspire an orchestra to a magical performance in those composers/pieces he loved-Mozart, Berlioz, Franck, Sibelius etc.

I do believe however that Boult's legacy with the BBC and in recorded music will last longer, and, though, dinner with Sir Thomas might have been more amusing, I would much rather have known Sir Adrian :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 01:30:51 PM
Great post, Colin! Yes, Boult was adventurous and a real professional, his range is greater than Beecham's. Whether Boult's legacy will be more enduring than Beecham's? Perhaps it's still too early to tell.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: drogulus on October 04, 2008, 01:40:04 PM


     Michael Kennedy, in his book about the Hallé Orchestra, says Barbirolli wouldn't let Beecham conduct in Manchester. It sounds like both personal and professional objections were involved.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Kuhlau on October 04, 2008, 02:14:08 PM
Is anyone familiar with Rebecca Clarke's music? I just heard her Viola Sonata and I am just bowled over by the brilliance of this work. Utterly fantastic - by turns lyrical, passionate, vibrant and nostalgic this must surely rank amng the best viola sonatas out there... I have just seen that there is a cello verson too. Must get onto that and also the Rhapsody for cello and piano...

Morpheus for viola and piano is a beautiful celtic/impressionistic sounding lament. I also have heard the lovely Passacaglia on a an old English Theme for cello and piano.

I cannot recommend these piece enough - I love making discoveries like this!

For those interested, this is the CD to which Guido is referring:

(http://www.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/109/977/10997736/600x600.jpg)

FK
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2008, 02:20:54 PM
Ah, Barbirolli...another magnificent conductor of British music :) (And not just British music, of course :))

The three 'B': Beecham, Boult and Barbirolli. Where are their equals today :(

Btw I shuld have added to my post above that Boult was, of course, a very fine interpreter of the Bax tone poems he recorded-whatever he thought of Bax as a man. I don't think however that I have ever heard Boult in Delius ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 02:29:13 PM
Ah, Barbirolli...another magnificent conductor of British music :) (And not just British music, of course :))

The three 'B': Beecham, Boult and Barbirolli. Where are their equals today :(

Btw I shuld have added to my post above that Boult was, of course, a very fine interpreter of the Bax tone poems he recorded-whatever he thought of Bax as a man. I don't think however that I have ever heard Boult in Delius ;D

Delius was Beecham's territory. If Boult disliked Beecham so much, perhaps he also disliked the English composer whose music Beecham loved so much... Just speculation, of course.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 02:30:08 PM
For those interested, this is the CD to which Guido is referring:

(http://www.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/109/977/10997736/600x600.jpg)

FK

Thank you, Kuhlau, and welcome!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2008, 02:43:57 PM
Delius was Beecham's territory. If Boult disliked Beecham so much, perhaps he also disliked the English composer whose music Beecham loved so much... Just speculation, of course.

Just for the record.....Boult conducted the first performance of the Delius Violin Concerto in 1919 with Albert Sammons as soloist :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 03:11:47 PM
Just for the record.....Boult conducted the first performance of the Delius Violin Concerto in 1919 with Albert Sammons as soloist :)

Good man!

And now I am going to bed... Goodnight, Colin!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on October 04, 2008, 04:16:32 PM
Very interesting stuff. Thanks, Colin (and Johan for prodding all that interesting stuff from him :D).

Personally I'm more a Boult than a Beecham man. Of course sonics may have something to contribute in this impression - Sir Adrian was fortunate in having both an 'Indian Summer' as a conductor and fiinding great orchestras and sound engineers to work with at the time. When it comes to the British repertoire I've always found Boult's music-making so utterly natural in phrasing, pacing and expression as to sound totally 'English': loath to "make an impression", but equally loath to be found anything less than commanding, 'in charge' and open to a work's inner sensitivity.

Barbirolli is something else: his range seems to have been just as wide as Boult's but more "éclaté". So the results were much less predictable, but more spectacular (both as successes or failures).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2008, 04:28:03 PM
I love the story Barbirolli used to tell of when his father reached Great Britain, having emigrated from Italy, and on arriving at the station in London was greeted by a newspaper billboard which read "ENGLAND COLLAPSES".

The horrified man was pondering whether he had better return to Italy as soon as possible before he was told that the horrific notice referred to the English cricket team's performance in a test match against Australia :)

Barbirolli was himself a huge cricket fan :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 04, 2008, 11:14:38 PM
Great story!  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 04, 2008, 11:25:53 PM
Very interesting discussion although I'm not too sure what happened to Dame Ethel in the process  ;D Barbirolli is perhaps my favourite of the three (Boult/Beecham/Barbirolli) for the warmth which he brings to so many recordings (EMI version of Vaughan Williams's Symphony No 5 for example) but Boult is unrivalled overall in Vaughan Williams I think and I have recently been listening to his wonderful Lyrita recording of Rubbra's 7th Symphony. I did not realise that Beecham was so unpleasant. His Sibelius Symphony No 4 is unrivalled in my view. Beecham was quite dismissive of Vaughan Williams's music, commenting after giving a (presumably rare) performance of A Pastoral Symphony "It's the city life for me". There are no recordings of Beecham conducting any Vaughan Williams symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Kuhlau on October 05, 2008, 04:29:57 AM
Thank you, Kuhlau, and welcome!

Thank you. :)

This really is an excellent CD of music - I can fully understand why Guido is so enthusiastic about it. Mind you, when you have players of the calibre of Dukes, Plane and particularly, Hope, on a recording, it couldn't be otherwise.

My only complaint about it is the recorded sound: good, but not superb. Perhaps a smidgen too close, and without the bloom that might show off these works to best effect. At least, that's how I remember it the last time I spun the disc.

FK
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 05, 2008, 08:55:57 AM
Very interesting discussion although I'm not too sure what happened to Dame Ethel in the process  ;D Barbirolli is perhaps my favourite of the three (Boult/Beecham/Barbirolli) for the warmth which he brings to so many recordings (EMI version of Vaughan Williams's Symphony No 5 for example) but Boult is unrivalled overall in Vaughan Williams I think and I have recently been listening to his wonderful Lyrita recording of Rubbra's 7th Symphony. I did not realise that Beecham was so unpleasant. His Sibelius Symphony No 4 is unrivalled in my view. Beecham was quite dismissive of Vaughan Williams's music, commenting after giving a (presumably rare) performance of A Pastoral Symphony "It's the city life for me". There are no recordings of Beecham conducting any Vaughan Williams symphony.

My apologies to Dame Ethel :)

Agree about her Concerto for violin and horn.

Her most interesting work might well be the Mass in D from 1891. Mark Morris wrote that the Mass is "...an advanced work in the British context of its time and the finest of all British 19th century choral works-big, richly textured, Germanic and late Romantic. In some ways it looks back to the grandeur of Berlioz, but the magnificent Credo, with its dramatic changes of mood, complex and often luminous interweaving of voices, and undercurrent of gigantic power, looks forwards to Mahler's Symphony No.8".

I have to say that this seems an over-estimation of the work :) It is perhaps that the EMI performance is under-powered-a bigger and better orchestra than the Orchestra of the Plymouth Music Series might have done the work more justice!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: lukeottevanger on October 05, 2008, 08:58:21 AM
What? There could be a finer band than the Orchestra of PMS?  :o I'll take your word for it...  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark G. Simon on October 05, 2008, 01:15:48 PM
What? There could be a finer band than the Orchestra of PMS?  :o I'll take your word for it...  ;D

They all play on period instruments, you see.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 05, 2008, 01:21:19 PM
They all play on period instruments, you see.

Very good!  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 06, 2008, 04:05:16 AM
They all play on period instruments, you see.

You know I looked at this post last night for quite some time and thought to myself-"no they don't, surely.......?".

Looked at it again this morning and instantly........ :) :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mark G. Simon on October 06, 2008, 06:28:21 AM
There's also a sister organization, the PMS Consort, which specializes in early music, especially music in menstrual notation from manuscripts like the Ivrea Kotex.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 06, 2008, 07:27:17 AM
There's also a sister organization, the PMS Consort, which specializes in early music, especially music in menstrual notation from manuscripts like the Ivrea Kotex.

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: lukeottevanger on October 06, 2008, 07:45:45 AM
Dame Ethel would not be amused. Though I'm now having terrible thoughts about that famous story of her conducting with a toothbrush...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on October 06, 2008, 07:48:20 AM
There's also a sister organization, the PMS Consort, which specializes in early music, especially music in menstrual notation from manuscripts like the Ivrea Kotex.

Don't understand :-\   Don't want to understand ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 06, 2008, 01:25:24 PM
Dame Ethel would not be amused. Though I'm now having terrible thoughts about that famous story of her conducting with a toothbrush...

Quote from the spirit of Dame Ethel  0:)

"We are not amused"

 ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 11, 2008, 07:55:15 AM
BBC Music Magazine has a nice CD of "Visions of England" this month featuring Delius's Brigg Fair, VW's On Wenlock Edge, Butterworth's Six Songs from A Shropshire Lad and Finzi's Let Us Garlands Bring.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 23, 2008, 12:53:40 AM
Is anyone familiar with Rebecca Clarke's music? I just heard her Viola Sonata and I am just bowled over by the brilliance of this work. Utterly fantastic - by turns lyrical, passionate, vibrant and nostalgic this must surely rank amng the best viola sonatas out there... I have just seen that there is a cello verson too. Must get onto that and also the Rhapsody for cello and piano...

Morpheus for viola and piano is a beautiful celtic/impressionistic sounding lament. I also have heard the lovely Passacaglia on a an old English Theme for cello and piano.

I cannot recommend these piece enough - I love making discoveries like this!

On 11th November I went to an Armistice day recital of war-poetry/prose and music given at a local arts centre. In fact I only went as the violinist of the trio performing is a friend of my wife. However, I enjoyed what turned out to be a very moving evening which ended with 'The Last Post' played beautifully on a solo cello. There was some interesting music including the last movement of Shostakovich's Piano Quintet, the slow movement of Stanford's Piano Trio No 3 and an especially beautiful piece by Rebecca Clarke-the slow movement of her Piano Trio (1921). I liked this so much that I dashed out (as one does) to buy the recording of this work on ASV. Very strongly recommended.

I have just noticed that it is snowing here  :o
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: drogulus on November 23, 2008, 12:40:10 PM


     At a Spectrum Singers concert last night I heard the Hymn for St. Cecelia by Herbert Howells from a poem by Ursula Vaughan Williams. It was extraordinarily beautiful with more than a little resemblance to something RVW might have written himself. I also heard the Hymn to St. Cecelia by Britten with an Auden text, and works by American composers Daniel Pinkham and Norman Della Joio, along with interludes consisting of Gabrieli and carols from various composers. It was altogether a pretty satisfying and substantial night of highly varied music, worth going out in the cold to hear.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Kuhlau on November 27, 2008, 04:57:17 AM
BBC Music Magazine has a nice CD of "Visions of England" this month featuring Delius's Brigg Fair, VW's On Wenlock Edge, Butterworth's Six Songs from A Shropshire Lad and Finzi's Let Us Garlands Bring.

Very much enjoyed that disc. Not the best interpretation of On Wenlock Edge, but the Butterworth songs are rather moving.

FK
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 29, 2008, 01:50:13 PM
Very much enjoyed that disc. Not the best interpretation of On Wenlock Edge, but the Butterworth songs are rather moving.

FK

Yes, I agree. It was an enjoyable disc.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: schweitzeralan on January 26, 2009, 10:06:49 AM
I figured that, as we had a thread similar to this on the old forum (it was restricted to the 20th century, but I'm throwing this one wide open), we ought to have one here. So feel free to discuss works and recordings by and of:

Alwyn
Arne
Arnold
Bainton
Bantock
Bax
Bliss
Boughton
Bridge
Britten
Byrd
Clark
Delius
Dunstable
Elgar
Field (we'll admit this one)
Finzi
Handel (we'll admit this one, too)
Gurney
Harty
Holst
Howells
Ireland
Litolff
MacMillan
Moeran
Mundy
Nyman (yes, he counts ;D)
Parry
Purcell
Quilter
Rawsthorne
Rodney Bennett
Rubbra
Somervell
Stanford
Sullivan
Tallis
Tavener (the long-haired one)
Taverner (the long-dead one)
Tippett
Tye
Vaughan Williams
Walton

... and Warlock (to name but a few from my own shelves*). :)




* Yes, I'm well aware this list isn't exhaustive. ;D

So many fine British composers, so much available on  litanies of recordings. I owe it initially to Chandos (plus a few other companies, to be sure) which exposed me to all the symphonies of Bax way back in the sixties. For years I could never communicate with friends or colleagues on the value and seriousness of so many British composers.  Obviously there's interest out there who many not necessarily be conservatory graduates.  Thank the gods for classical music on CD's.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on January 26, 2009, 10:51:45 AM
I like Boyce and Blow, to mention two lacking from the initial list. Blows Venus and Adonis is a delightful little masterpiece.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maciek on January 26, 2009, 12:06:59 PM
Blows Venus and Adonis

Omitting that apostrophe seems wrong somehow.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on January 26, 2009, 12:11:12 PM
Omitting that apostrophe seems wrong somehow.
Good one,  ;D - though it would be worse if it were Blows Adonis and Venus, not to mention Suks version.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 26, 2009, 01:32:32 PM
Naughty Erato...  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on January 26, 2009, 02:15:05 PM
Shame on you all ::)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 26, 2009, 02:24:06 PM
Shame on you all ::)

 :-[

But I was planning to call Erato Erota.  0:)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maciek on January 26, 2009, 02:46:34 PM
Ah, you showed admirable self-restraint then! ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 29, 2009, 06:48:29 AM
Three cheers for Frederick Delius and Havergal Brian (it's their birthday)!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on January 29, 2009, 07:34:31 PM
:-[

But I was planning to call Erato Erota.  0:)

Reminds me of a line in Thomas Mann's Zauberberg: Maroussia, one of the characters of the novel refers to Beethoven's "erotische sinfonie"  >:D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 30, 2009, 03:36:42 AM
Reminds me of a line in Thomas Mann's Zauberberg: Maroussia, one of the characters of the novel refers to Beethoven's "erotische sinfonie"  >:D

 ;D

"Sinfonia Erotica"
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on January 30, 2009, 06:27:34 PM
I never read it in the original German. Is that how it was written? There's so much humour in that humongous novel, and it comes in very unexpected touches. This one's a little gem.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 31, 2009, 01:38:34 AM
I never read it in the original German. Is that how it was written? There's so much humour in that humongous novel, and it comes in very unexpected touches. This one's a little gem.

I haven't read it either, André. I just thought that would be the *right* wrong title!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on February 01, 2009, 08:13:24 AM
Quite probable, actually ! This jeu de mots is much more plausible that way. 'Hero' translates as 'helden' in German, so there's no way a german speaker would mistake 'eroica' with its german equivalent. Anyone here knows the answer?  :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 01, 2009, 11:03:15 AM
Quite probable, actually ! This jeu de mots is much more plausible that way. 'Hero' translates as 'helden' in German, so there's no way a german speaker would mistake 'eroica' with its german equivalent. Anyone here knows the answer?  :D

Yes, I do... The Germans use the word 'heroisch', too. And between 'heroisch' and 'erotisch' there isn't that much difference, apart from an obtrusive t.  0:)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on February 01, 2009, 02:23:17 PM
Quote
The Germans use the word 'heroisch', too.
I didn't know that! So, the plot thickens !!  :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 02, 2009, 06:32:38 AM
I found the passage in German! It's in Chapter Six, a section called 'Schnee' (Snow):

Frau Stöhr weinte begeistert im Anblick der Form des ehemaligen Joachim. »Ein Held! Ein Held!« rief sie mehrfach und verlangte, daß an seinem Grabe die »Erotika« von Beethoven gespielt werden müsse.

So - it's a Frau Stöhr who says she wants Beethoven's Erotica to be played at Joachim's (? Joseph, the violinist? haven't read the novel) grave...

 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on February 03, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Ha! Fantastische! Joachim Ziemssen is Hans Castorp's cousin. The story starts when Castorp goes to the Davos sanatorium to visit his cousin.

Although it has nothing to do in this thread, may I just conclude by adding that Zauberberg is one of 20th century's most fascinating, seminal and important novels. A classic for the ages. Excellent Wiki article. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Mountain). BTW music plays an important role throughout the novel.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on April 25, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Richard Arnell's death reduces still further the number of established British composers of symphonies.

Those who remain include-

John Linton Gardner(born 1917)-3
Arthur Butterworth(born 1923)-6
Sir Peter Maxwell Davies(born 1934)-8
Sir Richard Rodney Bennett(born 1936)-3
John McCabe(born 1939)-5
David Matthews(born 1943)-6
James Macmillan(born 1959)-3

I find this rather depressing :(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 25, 2009, 03:18:05 PM
Richard Arnell's death reduces still further the number of established British composers of symphonies.

Those who remain include-

John Linton Gardner(born 1917)-3
Arthur Butterworth(born 1923)-6
Sir Peter Maxwell Davies(born 1934)-8
Sir Richard Rodney Bennett(born 1936)-3
John McCabe(born 1939)-5
David Matthews(born 1943)-6
James Macmillan(born 1959)-3

I find this rather depressing :(

You forgot

John Pickard (born 1963)-4,

Colin...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on April 25, 2009, 03:37:12 PM
Thank you, Johan :)

And Pickard(like Macmillan) is younger than me.....so there is some hope after all ;D


.....But would someone please record Pickard's 2nd and 3rd!!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 25, 2009, 11:42:41 PM
Don't forget David Bedford's First Symphony (1985), which I have actually heard live - it is good fun.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dax on April 26, 2009, 01:05:34 AM
John White has written 25 symphonies, but many of them are electronic. But there is one for solo piano (dedicated to the memory of Alkan) and another for organ and 6 tubas.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on April 26, 2009, 01:12:24 AM
Not everything has to be a Symphony! Nor does everyone have to write them to be worthwhile composers! (see Ades!)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: sul G on April 26, 2009, 01:52:49 AM
No, Guido, I agree. However, if you guys want to club together and organise a commission to ensure the survival of the British Symphony (in the shape of Ottevanger's #1) then I won't stand in your way.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on April 26, 2009, 03:26:23 AM
No, Guido, I agree. However, if you guys want to club together and organise a commission to ensure the survival of the British Symphony (in the shape of Ottevanger's #1) then I won't stand in your way.  ;D ;D

Didn't know you had it in you! What would a 21st century symphony look like?

As to the commissioning - maybe when I have more money/power/influence!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Grazioso on April 26, 2009, 03:30:18 AM
Not everything has to be a Symphony! Nor does everyone have to write them to be worthwhile composers! (see Ades!)

Heresy!  $:) Actually, while I've been exploring symphonies over the past few years (see this thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12000.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12000.0.html)), I've been a bit surprised to see just how few significant composers from the Classical era onward didn't write at least one. Of the major canonical figures, only a few didn't: Chopin, Puccini, Verdi... And countless second-tier composers wrote them. And while Britain has her fine non-symphonists like Delius, Finzi, etc., most of its important figures have also been symphonists. If you're going to write classical music, you may as well go for the gold :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on April 26, 2009, 03:53:04 AM
Heresy!  $:) Actually, while I've been exploring symphonies over the past few years (see this thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12000.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12000.0.html)), I've been a bit surprised to see just how few significant composers from the Classical era onward didn't write at least one. Of the major canonical figures, only a few didn't: Chopin, Puccini, Verdi... And countless second-tier composers wrote them. And while Britain has her fine non-symphonists like Delius, Finzi, etc., most of its important figures have also been symphonists. If you're going to write classical music, you may as well go for the gold :)

Well it was the standard large scale medium for orchestra, so it's not that surprising... We need to define what we mean by 'symphonist' here - does writing one symphony make one a symphonist? Is Moeran a symphonist with his one (very fine) symphony? Does any piece with the word symphony in the title mean that it is symphonic in thought?  I would argue that Britten wasn't a symphonist either - his 3 works bearing the title fit more easily into other categories. And of course as I said, there are many major writers for orchestral forces that never wrote a symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on April 26, 2009, 11:53:21 AM
Of course I agree with you that "not everything has to be a symphony" :) Why, I like concertos as well...and big choral works too ;D

The list of composers who never wrote a symphony is indeed extensive. Grazioso mentioned Chopin, Puccini and Verdi, Delius and Finzi.
But you can add to those composers like Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, Faure, Falla, Busoni, Bridge, Petrassi, Dallapiccola, Orff, Ginastera, Howells, Ireland, Poulenc, Reger, Mussorgsky, Rodrigo, Satie....just off the top of my head. There are great names in that list :)
Does Janacek's Sinfonietta make him a symphonist?

But, I have always regarded the symphony as the apex of orchestral composition and if I think back to the period in British music when composers like Alwyn, Arnell, Arnold, Berkeley, Brian, Alan Bush, Cooke, Frankel, Fricker, Hamilton, Hoddinott, Jones, Lloyd, Mathias, Rawsthorne, Rubbra, Searle, Simpson, Tippett, Walton and Wordsworth were active symphonists whose symphonies were being played and/or recorded and compare it to today.......... :(

But, remember, I am of an older generation. It is kind of inevitable that I will be drawn into the "things are not as good now as they once were" mindset :) If the future lies with different musical forms then so be it :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: sul G on April 26, 2009, 01:22:57 PM
Does Janacek's Sinfonietta make him a symphonist?

Not IMO
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lilas Pastia on April 26, 2009, 02:16:28 PM
Thanks to Vandermolen's ardent and generous advocacy  :-* I listened to Arnell' symphonies 3 - 5 these last few weeks. I started with 3, and felt as if I had hit a stumbling block. Therefore I dutifully gave it a couple more listenings before attempting to forge an opinion.

I had trouble with this work. It seemed to me to be anything but a classical symphony. Not a fault in itself, but a perception that forced me to figure out for myself the structure of the work. Although nominally in 6 movements, it's really more like 5 (# 5 is a very brief introduction to # 6) . The first two movements have so much material and so little connecting tissue they might have been part of a ballet suite. None the worse for that, as english composers of the time were particularly adept at the genre - indeed, unrivalled.

I liked most of it, while still trying to understand what all the critical fuss was about. This may sound harsh, but if a composer has labeled his work 'symphony no 3', he ought to expect that we'll take the terms 'symphony' and '# 3'  seriously. One particular instance that had me listening slack-jawed in admiration AND disbelief was the collage of 3-4 different codas to the work, as if the composer was discarding the preceding one aside before gleefully launching another big-hearted attempt at a suitable triumphant conclusion. Triumph is clearly the feeling the composer wants to convey, and although in the end he does manage, he leaves me trampled and exhausted in the process. An intriguing work that raminds me no a little bit of Havergal Brian's freewheeling ways with structure and harmonies.

Symphonies 4 and 5, each about half the length of 3 - and each in a more compact three movement layout - were more to my liking. Indeed, I found both quite remarkable. The composer has an ear for startling orchestral effects (the timpani tattoo that harks the 4th's first movement had me perking up my ears). And in a three movement structure the ending has a sense of arrival that doesn't sound like the Victor Borge spoof I can't escape hearing in the 3rd. I have to say that the 5th's 5 minute-long last movement sounds disconcertingly short. But overall I prefer that kind of brevity. All told, I'm firmly of the opinion that # 4 is a great work, the 5th a most engaging one, while #3 reminds me of Brian's first two symphonies. Hugely interesting material, but a disconcerting symphonic treatment
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Rabbity Baxter on April 26, 2009, 02:34:06 PM
Not everything has to be a Symphony! Nor does everyone have to write them to be worthwhile composers! (see Ades!)

Do you mean you might begin to consider Mr A worthwhile should he give the form a go, or that you do already, without his having done so yet?

I'm not sure a symphony by Tom would necessarily (by dint of being a symphony alone) make me think any better, or worse for that matter, of him. I've not thought very much at all of him so far. And by that I mean nothing particularly bad nor good.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 26, 2009, 02:37:26 PM
Do you mean you might begin to consider Mr A worthwhile should he give the form a go, or that you do already, without his having done so yet?

The bolded words are the answer (eh, Guido?)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on April 26, 2009, 02:44:07 PM
The bolded words are the answer (eh, Guido?)
Yessir. Tevot should be enough to prove to anyone that Ades is capable of writing highly engaging, masterfully wrought, beautiful and powerful orchestral music. He don't need no symphony!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Rabbity Baxter on April 26, 2009, 02:50:25 PM
Proof, it appears, to anyone but me. And a number of others, of course!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on April 26, 2009, 02:54:05 PM
Since I have heard 'Tevot'(by kind courtesy of Guido) I can agree with him wholeheartedly :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on April 26, 2009, 03:12:12 PM
Proof, it appears, to anyone but me. And a number of others, of course!

Well, whatever, why keep going on about it?

Glad you agree Colin!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 26, 2009, 10:30:51 PM
Glad you agree Colin!

When Guido and Colin are in agreement, the world listens.  ;) I have made a mental note. Tevot, is it? Okay...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on April 27, 2009, 02:21:27 AM
When Guido and Colin are in agreement, the world listens.  ;) I have made a mental note. Tevot, is it? Okay...

Oh, no, no ;D

After being (not unfairly) scolded in the Japanese Composers' thread, I make no claims for the infallibility of my musical tastes ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Grazioso on April 27, 2009, 03:06:13 AM
Well it was the standard large scale medium for orchestra, so it's not that surprising... We need to define what we mean by 'symphonist' here - does writing one symphony make one a symphonist? Is Moeran a symphonist with his one (very fine) symphony? Does any piece with the word symphony in the title mean that it is symphonic in thought?  I would argue that Britten wasn't a symphonist either - his 3 works bearing the title fit more easily into other categories. And of course as I said, there are many major writers for orchestral forces that never wrote a symphony.

For me, I generally conceive a "symphonist" to be a composer who focuses extensively on the medium and/or does some of his or her best work in it, even if that just means one piece. If it's just some one-off bit of weak juvenilia, then so-and-so composed a symphony but isn't a symphonist in that better sense. As for defining what constitutes a symphony per se, one quickly begins to tread on shaky ground there, so I generally opt for the inclusive definition of "If the composer calls it a symphony, it is one"--though some composers do bandy the term around much too casually for my taste :) Either way, Britain has given us a tremendous bounty of symphonies in the 20th century.

Of course I agree with you that "not everything has to be a symphony" :) Why, I like concertos as well...and big choral works too ;D

The list of composers who never wrote a symphony is indeed extensive. Grazioso mentioned Chopin, Puccini and Verdi, Delius and Finzi.
But you can add to those composers like Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, Faure, Falla, Busoni, Bridge, Petrassi, Dallapiccola, Orff, Ginastera, Howells, Ireland, Poulenc, Reger, Mussorgsky, Rodrigo, Satie....just off the top of my head. There are great names in that list :)

Of course many composers didn't write one--alas!--but note that I was talking about the major canonical greats: your Beethoven, Brahms, etc. Debussy or Bartok would fall in that category, but as much as I might enjoy, say, Bridge or Rodrigo, I wouldn't include them there. But look at all the "big names"* from the Classical era onward who did write at least one symphony: Mozart, Haydn, LvB, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Bruckner, Mahler, Strauss, Wagner, Dvorak, Berlioz, Bizet, Saint-Saens, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich, Resphigi, Copland, Bernstein, Elgar, RVW, Holst, Grieg, Sibelius, Nielsen, etc. I wonder if part of the reason we consider many of those composers to be "major" is precisely because they tackled the biggest and most prestigious instrumental genre with success, as well as providing concert programmers with lengthy, meaty works. But that's fodder for another thread.... Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

* I.e., the composers whose work fills the bulk of concert programs, form the "core repertoire", and get taught in classes and guides to newcomers as the "major" composers one should learn about.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Dundonnell on April 27, 2009, 04:54:29 AM
I agree with most of what you say but would doubt whether Wagner's Symphony is much other than juvenalia(it was composed when Wagner was 19). Grieg's Symphony might just fall into the same category. And Holst? Well, I suppose that the Cotswolds Symphony might count and the 'Choral Symphony' is certainly called a 'symphony'.

But I am nit-picking ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2009, 03:39:23 PM
My favourite CD of 2009. Sensational.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2009, 03:48:06 PM
Here is the relevant image from Gustav Dore's illustrations for Dante's 'Inferno'(Dante and his spirit guide Virgil stare into Hell from a precarious ledge) to go with the extraordinary opening to Erik Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' - a masterpiece in my view (both the picture and the music!)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on November 29, 2009, 02:18:20 AM
My favourite CD of 2009. Sensational.
I was checking the listings at mdt, an it seems that both Dutton, Bate and Arnell are missing. As mdt usually have very comprehensive listings, I find that strange. No luck at europadisc either. Problems at Dutton?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 29, 2009, 03:57:42 AM
I usually get direct from Dutton.



http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on November 29, 2009, 04:17:07 AM
I usually get direct from Dutton.



http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/
So did I.  :D Ordered your recommendation + the Arnell no 3. 10 minutes ago, after googling their site.

But I've bought Dutton from mdt before on several occasions (among other stuff the Rubbra quartets) so I wonder what happened....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 29, 2009, 05:00:37 AM
So did I.  :D Ordered your recommendation + the Arnell no 3. 10 minutes ago, after googling their site.

But I've bought Dutton from mdt before on several occasions (among other stuff the Rubbra quartets) so I wonder what happened....

I'm sure you wont regret this purchase and I'll be really interested to hear what you think.  I can't stop playing the CD and in an anachronistic technological procedure I've even transferred the CD to audio-cassette so that I can play it on my low-fi car sound system on the way to work. Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' - the Inferno section - is very appropriate music to accompany me to my way to work  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on November 29, 2009, 05:04:20 AM
Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' - the Inferno section - is very appropriate music to accompany me to my way to work  ;D
Are you a teacher ?  ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 30, 2009, 12:11:02 AM
Are you a teacher ?  ;)

Yes, you guessed, but the problem is not with the teaching, but with the management, under the command of one commonly known here as 'The Evil One'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J on December 02, 2009, 04:48:19 PM
I was checking the listings at mdt, an it seems that both Dutton, Bate and Arnell are missing. As mdt usually have very comprehensive listings, I find that strange. No luck at europadisc either. Problems at Dutton?

I buy Dutton CD's at prestoclassical.com which has the lowest price I've found (for a US buyer at least - even with overseas shipping).

MDT quit selling Dutton discs (or at least the Epoch series) quite a long time ago I believe.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on December 02, 2009, 11:29:31 PM
I buy Dutton CD's at prestoclassical.com which has the lowest price I've found (for a US buyer at least - even with overseas shipping).

MDT quit selling Dutton discs (or at least the Epoch series) quite a long time ago I believe.
I've already ordered two discs from Dutton's own site, but see that prestoclassical is significantly cheaper. In case Arnell catches on, I'll probably buy more discs and your tip is very useful. Thank you!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: snyprrr on December 22, 2009, 12:25:59 PM
I'm thinking Lutyens and Maconchy should be mentioned along with Rawsthorne. There's a whole gaggle of similar sounding Brits. Who else do we have on the Thorn-o-Meter? Who is the thorniest of the thornmeisters?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on December 22, 2009, 01:35:13 PM
I'm thinking Lutyens and Maconchy should be mentioned along with Rawsthorne. There's a whole gaggle of similar sounding Brits. Who else do we have on the Thorn-o-Meter? Who is the thorniest of the thornmeisters?


Walton has his prickly side, too, but his language is more overtly romantic. I have listened to Lutyens and Maconchy, and can hear the similarity, but Rawsthorne 'rules'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: karlhenning on December 22, 2009, 01:36:47 PM
A Jezetha sighting!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2009, 02:31:13 AM
I'm thinking Lutyens and Maconchy should be mentioned along with Rawsthorne. There's a whole gaggle of similar sounding Brits. Who else do we have on the Thorn-o-Meter? Who is the thorniest of the thornmeisters?

How about P Racine Fricker?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on December 27, 2009, 04:13:43 PM
Grace Williams - now there's a classy lassy. I cannot get enough of Fairest of Stars, her Milton (Paradise Lost) setting - ecstatic, soaring, refulgent.

http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Dancers-etc-John-Heley/dp/B00000IM78/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261958025&sr=8-2

Anyone know where I can get the above CD of her other vocal and choral works for a reasonable price?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on December 28, 2009, 04:31:51 AM
Grace Williams - now there's a classy lassy. I cannot get enough of Fairest of Stars, her Wordsworth setting - ecstatic, soaring, refulgent.

http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Dancers-etc-John-Heley/dp/B00000IM78/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261958025&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Williams-Dancers-etc-John-Heley/dp/B00000IM78/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261958025&sr=8-2)

Anyone know where I can get the above CD of her other vocal and choral works for a reasonable price?


Interesting CD! I'm a great admirer of Gerard Manley Hopkins's poetry, so her settings (for alto and string sextet) sound fascinating...


Can't help you, though.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Guido on December 28, 2009, 04:44:49 AM
It does sound interesting doesn't it!

Ad sorry above - Fairest of Stars is of course from Milton, not Wordsworth (I've correct it now)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 10, 2010, 09:32:38 AM
Over the last few days, I've been reviewing the Jan-Feb 2010 issue of the American Record Guide - there is a 50-page overview on British Orchestral Music, i.e. the non-symphonic music (which was done by them in 2000); the composers are listed alphabetically w/ discussions of their orchestral compositions (mainly concertos, poems, and other non-symphonic type music), along w/ past & current recommendations.  :D

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on February 23, 2010, 08:27:38 AM
How about P Racine Fricker?
I second this, listening to this 2nd symphony atm - sounds kind of like Walton being attacked by Bartók or something...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 23, 2010, 08:59:38 AM
I second this, listening to this 2nd symphony atm - sounds kind of like Walton being attacked by Bartók or something...


 ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on February 23, 2010, 09:13:22 AM
Now that it's finished, I feel that it's quite an unusual "European" style. Where several British composers of this tough tonal style relied on restless impact and motoring themes, Fricker is more laid back, dissonant and impactful climaxes, but he has the same sense of space that there is in, say, Hindemith's Mathis der Maler Symphony, replete with much tonal unease. Can't think of any other British composer the style is related to, as it has no real neoclassical influences either.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on December 06, 2011, 02:14:59 PM
Any opinion on Geoffrey Burgon? I ran into an EMI LP of his music conducted by Hickox, which as so often I thought "I wish I used vinyl" when I saw. I hadn't heard of him before this, but it seems that he wrote reams of stuff, based on the Wikipedia page.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Luke on December 06, 2011, 02:34:21 PM
At his best, he's really fine. He died not that long ago, and I started an RIP thread on which I posted a couple of thoughts and a couple of recommended CDs. Lunar Beauty, with the gorgeous Canciones del Alma, is the one to try first.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on December 06, 2011, 02:37:18 PM
Danke! The disc included those two - I guess his "hits"?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Luke on December 06, 2011, 02:45:18 PM
Well, I'd say his 'hits' would be his film scores - specifically the Brideshead Revisited one and the Tinker Sailor Soldier Spy one (the Nunc Dimitis, which is on the disc I was talking about) (maybe that was a TV series, not a film). Both of these are very well known - I'm sure you'd recognise them if you heard them. They are pleasant, and perhaps I shouldn't discount them, but I'm afraid I do, as there seems to me to much more substance in his 'concert' works. There is a sparse, almost expressionist setting of the Lyke Wake Dirge on that disc which I find extremely compelling, and the Lunar Beauty song cycle itself (with guitar not piano) is a tender thing indeed. Both these works show real imagination, and in the Canciones del Alma - two countertenors and strings IIRC - this imagination is at its richest. They are very attractive, ellusive works, dense and yet light, floating, scurrying, and yet full of substance and clinging beauty. I can't really think of anything else at all like them.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Lethevich on March 01, 2012, 09:16:20 PM
I don't want to start a thread on a composer who I have only heard one piece by (although his solo piano music I have only just resisted buying the whole lot of), but his Dante Pictures is a really super piece, and makes me excited about this inbound release:

(http://i.imgur.com/j51W7.jpg) (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67880&vw=dc)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mirror Image on March 01, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
I don't want to start a thread on a composer who I have only heard one piece by (although his solo piano music I have only just resisted buying the whole lot of), but his Dante Pictures is a really super piece, and makes me excited about this inbound release:

(http://i.imgur.com/j51W7.jpg) (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67880&vw=dc)

I've just read about this composer on the Hyperion site and what an interesting composer! He led a fascinating life. The samples for this new upcoming Hyperion release sounded great as well. Thanks for sharing this, Lethe.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
Wonderful discovery for me:

W Denis Browne (1885-1915, killed at Gallipoli in World War One).

Song:  'To Gratiana dancing and singing' a most lovely song which I heard on BBC Radio 3 last week. It brought tears to my eyes from the start. More moving than any song by VW in my view and VW is one of my very favourites. It features on several CDs.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on September 29, 2013, 09:37:15 AM
Wonderful discovery for me:

W Denis Browne (1885-1915, killed at Gallipoli in World War One).

Song:  'To Gratiana dancing and singing' a most lovely song which I heard on BBC Radio 3 last week. It brought tears to my eyes from the start. More moving than any song by VW in my view and VW is one of my very favourites. It features on several CDs.

Thanks for sharing, Jeffrey! Never heard of this composer before. Is that song a capella or does it have some kind of accompaniment? I'm not much for a capella choral music, but even if that song is a capella, I'll still give it a listen! :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
Here it is!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FuONgkBDBPc

Juxtaposed with a great painting by Caspar David Friedrich - one of my favourite artists.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on September 29, 2013, 09:44:55 AM
Here it is!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FuONgkBDBPc

Thanks, Jeffrey. Will give it a listen when I have more time. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 09:53:22 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. Will give it a listen when I have more time. :)

It's quite short and I would love to hear what you think.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on September 29, 2013, 12:08:23 PM
It's quite short and I would love to hear what you think.

It's hauntingly beautiful, another great WWI loss I wasn't even aware of. This Wikipedia entry is quite extensive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Denis_Browne
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 12:25:32 PM
It's hauntingly beautiful, another great WWI loss I wasn't even aware of. This Wikipedia entry is quite extensive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Denis_Browne

V pleased that you liked it.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Sergeant Rock on September 29, 2013, 12:30:55 PM
Here it is!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FuONgkBDBPc

Juxtaposed with a great painting by Caspar David Friedrich - one of my favourite artists.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Jeffrey. Gorgeous song. I've ordered the Hyperion CD (A Treasury of British Song).

This Wikipedia entry is quite extensive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Denis_Browne

Another tragic death of an artist in arguably the most senseless war ever fought. So fucking unnecessary, and sad.

Sarge
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 12:35:00 PM
Thanks for bring it to our attention, Jeffrey. Gorgeous song. I've ordered the Hyperion CD (A Treasury of British Song).

Another tragic death of an artist in arguably the most senseless war ever fought. So fucking sad, and unnecessary.

Sarge

Totally agree Sarge. What a waste - angers me too.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Est.1965 on September 29, 2013, 12:55:42 PM
Great Jeffrey.
I switched on to Bostridge live in Glasgow five or six years ago with Brittens Serenade for Tenor, Horn & Strings, so it was a pleasure to listen to this.  A pleasure and a sorrow to hear this fine and beautiful Lovelace poem set to music by William Denis Browne.  It is always a great delight to 'discover' things like this, thanks very much.
Looks like Hyperions 'A Treasury of British Song' has found another buyer here.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2013, 01:06:31 PM
Great Jeffrey.
I switched on to Bostridge live in Glasgow five or six years ago with Brittens Serenade for Tenor, Horn & Strings, so it was a pleasure to listen to this.  A pleasure and a sorrow to hear this fine and beautiful Lovelace poem set to music by William Denis Browne.  It is always a great delight to 'discover' things like this, thanks very much.
Looks like Hyperions 'A Treasury of British Song' has found another buyer here.

Thanks John,

I bought the Hyperion VW 'Songs of Travel' CD which features the Browne work sung by Christopher Maltman. However, the song had such a big effect on me (similar to 'Christchild's Lullaby', the last of Novak's Eight Nocturnes) that I have ordered a second hand copy of the Bostridge version too.

It is one of the great pleasures of this forum to be able (on occasion) to share joyful musical discoveries with others, who may be receptive to them, especially when there is limited appreciation of one's musical tastes at home ::)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:22:39 PM
Wonderful discovery for me:

W Denis Browne (1885-1915, killed at Gallipoli in World War One).

Song:  'To Gratiana dancing and singing' a most lovely song which I heard on BBC Radio 3 last week. It brought tears to my eyes from the start. More moving than any song by VW in my view and VW is one of my very favourites. It features on several CDs.

Just finished listening to this! Very beautiful indeed! Such haunting harmonies are employed in it. I would definitely like to hear more from this composer. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mirror Image on September 30, 2013, 05:23:49 PM
What did you think about that Stanford work The Bluebird, Kyle?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on September 30, 2013, 05:25:46 PM
What did you think about that Stanford work The Bluebird, Kyle?

See the Stanford thread. :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 03, 2013, 09:55:11 AM
Just finished listening to this! Very beautiful indeed! Such haunting harmonies are employed in it. I would definitely like to hear more from this composer. :)

Glad you enjoyed it Kyle. Sadly, due to his premature death in World War One there isn't much else. Also, I think that a number of his compositions were destroyed after he died. Today I received the Ian Bostridge recording featured on You Tube, which I played continuously on my way home today - another lovely performance of this most moving work.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Sergeant Rock on October 04, 2013, 04:31:44 AM
A Treasury of English Song arrived today.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/sep2013/treasuryenglishsong.jpg)

However, I just discovered the Browne song on the disc is not sung by Bostridge but Martyn Hill. That doesn't bother me (I prefer Hill) but I hope I didn't steer anyone wrong! My apologies if I did.


Sarge
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 04, 2013, 09:52:46 AM
A Treasury of English Song arrived today.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/sep2013/treasuryenglishsong.jpg)

However, I just discovered the Browne song on the disc is not sung by Bostridge but Martyn Hill. That doesn't bother me (I prefer Hill) but I hope I didn't steer anyone wrong! My apologies if I did.


Sarge

Looks like a nice CD Sarge.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2015, 10:59:34 AM
Here is another beautiful (for me at least) discovery - the Violin Concerto (1937) by Robin Milford (1903-59). It is a rather exquisite lyrical work, very much in the spirit of Vaughan Williams (his teacher) and even more so I think, Finzi ( his friend). I think that it has a more personal quality than we find in much of Vaughan Williams. Milford had a sad life - he had a very nervous disposition but volunteered for the Army the day the Second World War broke out but immediately suffered a nervous breakdown. His young son was tragically killed by a car in 1941 and Milford ultimately took his own life, shortly after the deaths of his two friends, Vaughan Williams and Finzi. The Violin Concerto is inspired and as soon as I listened to it I had to listen to it again.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3f2gLEOw78
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2015, 01:06:56 AM
Here it is!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FuONgkBDBPc

Juxtaposed with a great painting by Caspar David Friedrich - one of my favourite artists.

The original link to the beautiful W. Denis Browne song seems to no longer work so here is an alternative. If you've not heard this song I doubt very much that you will not enjoy it. The composer's loss in World War One is heart breaking and adds greater poignancy to his lovely song:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OXX5MLAK08A

And here is the somewhat faster Ian Bostridge version:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UjR91VzRxkQ
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2015, 09:39:12 PM
Born today : Charles Wilfred Orr (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/born-today-charles-wilfred-orr/)

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r7rBakz_uSw/sddefault.jpg)

Shorpshire songs especially good.

Thanks for alerting us to this. I wonder if he was related to Robin Orr whose Symphony in One Movement I greatly admire.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2016, 12:28:22 PM
The Veale Symphony is especially good, shows the influence of Shostakovich (especially Symphony 11) and should appeal to admirers of Stanley Bate's fine third and fourth symphonies:
I'll try and post the cover in a minute  ::)
Ok it won't work. The CD is on Dutton:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Gardner-Symphony-Hybrid-Multi-channel/dp/B01HBTM7EE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468359089&sr=8-1&keywords=Gardner+dutton
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mirror Image on July 12, 2016, 12:37:52 PM
Here you go, Jeffrey:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91vMeSj-0GL._SL1429_.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 12, 2016, 01:40:41 PM
Already ordered that from the Dutton website after reading Dundonell's impassioned post at the Art Music Forum praising this release......particularly the John Veale. Warning! If you want to save DO NOT read his post if you are a fan of neglected British composers!! :( ;D I'm looking forward to it,though! :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2016, 12:32:28 AM
Here you go, Jeffrey:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91vMeSj-0GL._SL1429_.jpg)
Thanks John! 😀
Can't stop listening to the Veale Symphony 2.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2016, 12:33:15 AM
Already ordered that from the Dutton website after reading Dundonell's impassioned post at the Art Music Forum praising this release......particularly the John Veale. Warning! If you want to save DO NOT read his post if you are a fan of neglected British composers!! :( ;D I'm looking forward to it,though! :)
It's a super release which you will enjoy I'm sure.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2016, 01:02:24 AM
I'm listening to the Gardner on cordless headphones. This is good stuff if you like Bax or Bainton. Very enjoyable. I didn't expect it to be this good,because everyone is so excited by the Veale. I'm going to want to hear his First Symphony now!
I haven't got to the Veale yet.........the one people are raving about. If the Garner is good,then presumably I am going to be blown away by what comes next!! ??? ;D

Here it is!! The first few bars strike me as more personal than the Gardner........

As they used to say. To be continued...........
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2016, 01:13:23 AM
Yes,I can see whay you and Dundonnell mean. This is quite the main course!! If I had switched on Radio 3 and heard it I'd have been thinking hey,what's this? More Bate than Bax or Bainton. Also,as Dundonnell observed,it seems less in thrall to VW than Bate.
Anyway,I'll shutup now until I've finished listening to it!! ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2016, 01:37:01 AM
Yes,I can see whay you and Dundonnell mean. This is quite the main course!! If I had switched on Radio 3 and heard it I'd have been thinking hey,what's this? More Bate than Bax or Bainton. Also,as Dundonnell observed,it seems less in thrall to VW than Bate.
Anyway,I'll shutup now until I've finished listening to it!! ;D
Definitely Bate, also Arnell and odd moments of Kinsella. Christo should hear this one.  8)
The Gardner Symphony 1 on Naxos is even better than No.2 I think.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 13, 2016, 01:56:38 AM
I am not sure if I have posted on here earlier this year that I have come to adore the music of Birtwistle....recently I purchased the latest edition of Silbury Air. Wow I love this guy's music....

Also, on the topic of scores for British music, does anyone know where I can find anything by Helen Grime?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2016, 02:27:39 AM
Regarding the new Dutton cd. I was going to say Arnell,from the bits I've heard;but I don't know his work well enough,so I thought I'd leave him out! The Veale is quite a find. Exciting orchestration. It just shows what's out there just waiting to be recorded. My ears were glued to it! ??? ;D In fact,I actually prefer this to Bate. Veal strikes me as being more his own man.

According to Dundonnell,Gardner's First is the one to hear. I think he calls it his masterpiece. I like this one;so if that one is better?!! I just don't want people to be put off buying the cd because of all the raving about the Veale (albeit,rightly so). The Gardner is very worthwhile imho. It's not like the Boughton First coupled with Bainton's third,where you keep wishing it wasn't there! Well,I do......and I usually like Boughton. (To be fair it is an early work). In my opinion the Gardner makes a very enjoyable and satisfying first course.

One of Duttons best releases. And now to listen to the Veale symphony again!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on July 13, 2016, 09:51:27 AM
Definitely Bate, also Arnell and odd moments of Kinsella. Christo should hear this one.  8)
The Gardner Symphony 1 on Naxos is even better than No.2 I think.

Oh dear. There we go again (checks bank account).  :-X
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: nathanb on July 13, 2016, 10:04:25 AM
I love British music :) :) :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 13, 2016, 01:05:23 PM
I love British music :) :) :)
OH god yes.

Ferneyhough
Finnissy
Adès
Helen Grime
Birtwistle
Davies
Sally Beamish
Turnage
Dillon
AND THE LIST GOES ON........
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on July 13, 2016, 10:44:37 PM
AND THE LIST GOES ON........

Sure:
Brian
Vaughan Williams
Bliss
Bantock
Holst
Ireland
Bridge
Berkeley
Jacob
Rubbra
Finzi
Goossens
Walton
Rawsthorne
Alwyn
Tippett
Howells
Moeran
Arnold
Gipps
Simpson
Wordsworth
Maconchy
Bate
Cooke
Arnell &c.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on July 13, 2016, 10:49:13 PM
Surely Grace Wiĺiams deserves not being under the &c in that list.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on July 13, 2016, 10:52:32 PM
Surely Grace Wiĺiams deserves not being under the &c in that list.
Nor do Daniel Jones, William Mathias, or Alun Hoddinott deserve my neglect.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2016, 11:28:46 PM
Sure:
Brian
Vaughan Williams
Bliss
Bantock
Holst
Ireland
Bridge
Berkeley
Jacob
Rubbra
Finzi
Goossens
Walton
Rawsthorne
Alwyn
Tippett
Howells
Moeran
Arnold
Gipps
Simpson
Wordsworth
Maconchy
Bate
Cooke
Arnell &c.  :)
No Bax?  :o
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2016, 11:41:24 PM
Joseph Holbrooke! >:( ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on July 14, 2016, 12:02:46 AM
No Bax?  :o
Apparently.  :-X
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2016, 12:31:08 AM
Apparently.  :-X
I see!  :'(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2016, 12:32:05 AM
Surely Grace Wiĺiams deserves not being under the &c in that list.
Her Symphony 2 is very fine.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2016, 12:34:44 AM
Regarding the new Dutton cd. I was going to say Arnell,from the bits I've heard;but I don't know his work well enough,so I thought I'd leave him out! The Veale is quite a find. Exciting orchestration. It just shows what's out there just waiting to be recorded. My ears were glued to it! ??? ;D In fact,I actually prefer this to Bate. Veal strikes me as being more his own man.

According to Dundonnell,Gardner's First is the one to hear. I think he calls it his masterpiece. I like this one;so if that one is better?!! I just don't want people to be put off buying the cd because of all the raving about the Veale (albeit,rightly so). The Gardner is very worthwhile imho. It's not like the Boughton First coupled with Bainton's third,where you keep wishing it wasn't there! Well,I do......and I usually like Boughton. (To be fair it is an early work). In my opinion the Gardner makes a very enjoyable and satisfying first course.

One of Duttons best releases. And now to listen to the Veale symphony again!
Arnell's 3rd Symphony is wonderful as is No.5 which I find very moving in the last movement. Arnell's mother was killed in the Blitz in London and I'm sure this influenced the war time 3rd Symphony. No.5 is dedicated to his father.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: The new erato on July 14, 2016, 12:49:35 AM
Her Symphony 2 is very fine.
I'll even raise you one on that!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2016, 01:02:26 AM
I'll even raise you one on that!
:)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 14, 2016, 01:51:49 AM
And don't forget Lionel Bart!
Particularly his hit numbers,"Please Sir can I have some more Daniel Jones?!'
and,'Chandos releases 'aint wot they used to be!' :(
Great stuff!!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2016, 09:50:47 AM
And don't forget Lionel Bart!
Particularly his hit numbers,"Please Sir can I have some more Daniel Jones?!'
and,'Chandos releases 'aint wot they used to be!' :(
Great stuff!!
:)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 14, 2016, 01:15:33 PM
Sure:
Brian
Vaughan Williams
Bliss
Bantock
Holst
Ireland
Bridge
Berkeley
Jacob
Rubbra
Finzi
Goossens
Walton
Rawsthorne
Alwyn
Tippett
Howells
Moeran
Arnold
Gipps
Simpson
Wordsworth
Maconchy
Bate
Cooke
Arnell &c.  :)


All truly remarkable in their own way. Never 'one sound' for British music, always variety, and I love variety.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 14, 2016, 01:33:30 PM
I read your earlier post. I think I will stock up with a little Birtwistle,before long. I bought the Collins single of Earth Dances when it came out. I also had Gawains Journey;but when I went to play them they were gone! I think they must have gone to the charity shop! :( :( :(
I've always fancied buying a copy of his opera Punch and Judy! I was always attracted to those now,apparently,politically incorrect puppets. I even wanted to be a Punch and Judy man when I was a youngster!! I couldn't get a swazzle,though! I remember scouring the pages of Exchange and Mart for one!! Presumably in this age of the internet I could order one on ebay or Amazon?!!
I'll look now. I'm not sure I want to be a Punch and Judy man anymore,though!! ::) ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 14, 2016, 04:48:02 PM
I read your earlier post. I think I will stock up with a little Birtwistle,before long. I bought the Collins single of Earth Dances when it came out. I also had Gawains Journey;but when I went to play them they were gone! I think they must have gone to the charity shop! :( :( :(
I've always fancied buying a copy of his opera Punch and Judy! I was always attracted to those now,apparently,politically incorrect puppets. I even wanted to be a Punch and Judy man when I was a youngster!! I couldn't get a swazzle,though! I remember scouring the pages of Exchange and Mart for one!! Presumably in this age of the internet I could order one on ebay or Amazon?!!
I'll look now. I'm not sure I want to be a Punch and Judy man anymore,though!! ::) ;D

Birtwistle's operatic treatment of Punch and Judy really brings to light how shocking the traditional puppet story is when the characters aren't stiff, wooden, comical hand puppets....

If you are interested, here is a link to a live performance on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjjswYcmjQU

and I know there is a CD recording you can get on Amazon as well https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birtwistle-Punch-Judy-Harrison/dp/B000PHVXXQ

Birtwistle's violently rhythmic style is suited well to the story imo.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on July 15, 2016, 12:44:40 AM
Thanks: ComposerOfAvantGarde. I'll have a look (and listen) to that a bit later! :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on February 03, 2017, 04:38:12 PM
Interview with Rebecca Saunders, including an interesting answer to a question about silence, slow tempo and timbre...........and also she watches Sherlock (which is pretty cool to know) http://riotensemble.com/a-few-moments-with-rebecca-saunders/
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2017, 09:02:10 AM
A brief word of praise for the much maligned Symphony in D, Op.32 by Sir Donald Tovey (1913). Rather like the later case of Gordon Jacob his music is invariably seen as 'academic' (he was a musicologist) and of not much interest but, as is the case with Gordon Jacob I think that that there is a slumbering power under the academic surface and, in fact, I find the slow movement of Tovey's Symphony ''Canzona Dorica' to be both memorable and moving - as if there is a soul and spirit breaking through the academic surface. I daren't start a Tovey thread (I'll check in a minute if I did already  ::)) as I know in two years time it would still say 'last post by vandermolen'  8)
Anyway, I suspect that cilgwyn may be my only hope for a response here but here it is anyway:


All praise for the Malmo Opera orchestra and George Vass for recording this work.

I think that it has a slight Elgarian/Brucknerian quality to it.
And here's a review of the CD:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/May06/Tovey_tocc0033.htm
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on April 10, 2017, 09:35:10 AM
I've heard about Tovey's Symphony, quite a substantial work. I've got the Hyperion recording of his Piano Concerto in A (c/w Mackenzie), and the fact he wrote one of the longest cello concerti ever recorded is also of interest to me.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2017, 09:42:11 AM
I've heard about Tovey's Symphony, quite a substantial work. I've got the Hyperion recording of his Piano Concerto in A (c/w Mackenzie), and the fact he wrote one of the longest cello concerti ever recorded is also of interest to me.
Thanks so much for the response.  :)
I've heard good things about the Piano Concerto and Cello Concerto, neither of which I've heard. At the moment I'm really enjoying the Symphony. I think that the comparison with Franz Schmidt is also helpful.
The Symphony sounds a bit like it was composed on the organ initially but I have no evidence for this. Sections remind me of Bruckner, especially in the finale.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 10, 2017, 12:15:20 PM
I have the recordings of the Cello Concerto and the Symphony and I like them. Brahmsian, with lots of tunes!

The Cello Concerto's problem is that its first movement is 25 minutes long and, however good it is, it completely overshadows the other movements. The problem with the symphony is more subtle... When I first listened to it I got the impression that somehow the first movement and the finale had got switched because the first movement ends like a finale, all triumphantly, and it sounds as if the symphony should end there, by contrast the finale is far less definitive and sounds like a first movement. Now whenever I play the symphony I program the CD player to play 4, 2, 3, 1 and it sounds great.

 :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 10, 2017, 12:37:43 PM
I think that it has a slight Elgarian/Brucknerian quality to it.

Sold! I've ordered the last copy available from Amazon DE. I'll let you know what I think of it as soon as I've had a listen or two.

Sarge
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on April 10, 2017, 03:41:47 PM
I like Graham Whettam.  Especially his Symphony No. 2 "Sinfonia Intrepida" of 1976.

https://www.youtube.com/ZnXLznS4g6U

How do you get the youtube clip to be embedded in the post?

EDIT: Thanks Mirror Image!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mirror Image on April 10, 2017, 04:37:02 PM
I like Graham Whettam.  Especially his Symphony No. 2 "Sinfonia Intrepida" of 1976.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnXLznS4g6U

How do you get the youtube clip to be embedded in the post?

Basically, when you have this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqblxg0E-Cw

You need to remove the ‘=‘ and replace with a ‘/‘. You also will need to remove ‘watch?’. Once you’ve added/subtracted those characters, you will need to use the flash icon (the ‘f’ with a red circle around it that's right next to the ‘insert image’ icon). So now your video should look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/v/Fqblxg0E-Cw
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2017, 08:56:41 PM
I have the recordings of the Cello Concerto and the Symphony and I like them. Brahmsian, with lots of tunes!

The Cello Concerto's problem is that its first movement is 25 minutes long and, however good it is, it completely overshadows the other movements. The problem with the symphony is more subtle... When I first listened to it I got the impression that somehow the first movement and the finale had got switched because the first movement ends like a finale, all triumphantly, and it sounds as if the symphony should end there, by contrast the finale is far less definitive and sounds like a first movement. Now whenever I play the symphony I program the CD player to play 4, 2, 3, 1 and it sounds great.

 :D
I see exactly what you mean - a very insightful comment I think.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 10, 2017, 09:00:50 PM
Sold! I've ordered the last copy available from Amazon DE. I'll let you know what I think of it as soon as I've had a listen or two.

Sarge
Well, I really hope that you enjoy it Sarge. I've just been communicating with a friend about it and he agreed that the music may well reflect an anguished soul beneath the academic facade. The notes are quite informative about Tovey's not-too-happy life. It was the slow movement which did it for me. Over the last couple of days I've listened to the work four times with increasing enjoyment. The 'Dionysus Prelude' is a nice curtain raiser.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 11, 2017, 11:33:43 AM
I like Graham Whettam.  Especially his Symphony No. 2 "Sinfonia Intrepida" of 1976.

https://www.youtube.com/ZnXLznS4g6U


Thanks to your post, I've discovered another obscure British composer of symphonies. I'm hearing the "Intrepida" for the first time, and yes, I like it very much. Wiki says he's composed a dozen symphonies  :o

How do you get the youtube clip to be embedded in the post?

EDIT: Thanks Mirror Image!

You're getting closer but no cigar. The v/ is missing. Here is the embedded clip:

https://www.youtube.com/v/ZnXLznS4g6U


Sarge
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on July 09, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
I just finished listening to the new BIS recording of John Pickard's Symphony No. 5, Sixteen Sunrises, Concertante Variations, and Toccata. 
(http://bis.se/shop/thumbnails/shop/17115/art15/h7427/5007427-origpic-f94f79.jpg_0_0_100_100_1600_1600_0.jpg)
http://bis.se/label/bis/pickard-symphony-no5

This is such a fine release of new music.  I love the structure of the Symphony No. 5 and its tempestuous nature.  I found it gripping from the start to the end and loved how the various ideas culminated in the final movement.  The rest of the works are equally substantial.  I have purchased each of BIS's Pickard cd's and have never been disappointed.  For those who are unaware of this composer, how to describe...let me think.  I think if you find something to like with late Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, James Macmillan, Colin Matthews, Kalevi Aho, and Alun Hoddinott, you will find this music comfortable.  The music is dynamic, inventive, colorful, challenging but then there are great breakthrough moments of melodies that puts the difficult music in context.  I look forward to each new release in this series and hope for many more to come.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 10, 2017, 01:01:30 AM
I just finished listening to the new BIS recording of John Pickard's Symphony No. 5, Sixteen Sunrises, Concertante Variations, and Toccata. 
(http://bis.se/shop/thumbnails/shop/17115/art15/h7427/5007427-origpic-f94f79.jpg_0_0_100_100_1600_1600_0.jpg)
http://bis.se/label/bis/pickard-symphony-no5

This is such a fine release of new music.  I love the structure of the Symphony No. 5 and its tempestuous nature.  I found it gripping from the start to the end and loved how the various ideas culminated in the final movement.  The rest of the works are equally substantial.  I have purchased each of BIS's Pickard cd's and have never been disappointed.  For those who are unaware of this composer, how to describe...let me think.  I think if you find something to like with late Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, James Macmillan, Colin Matthews, Kalevi Aho, and Alun Hoddinott, you will find this music comfortable.  The music is dynamic, inventive, colorful, challenging but then there are great breakthrough moments of melodies that puts the difficult music in context.  I look forward to each new release in this series and hope for many more to come.
Thanks for that. I have the CD with 'The Flight of Icarus' on - which I enjoyed. Must listen again.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Robert101 on July 18, 2017, 04:35:59 AM
I have the 4th Gaia Symphony which I really love. The music is quite mercurial with some beautiful passages in the middle movements. Also the recording contains Eden, which I'd call modern-ironic with its humorous orchestral passages...a exciting piece! The 5th will be my next purchase. He reminds me of some of the Finnish composers.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 18, 2017, 05:53:07 AM
I have the 4th Gaia Symphony which I really love. The music is quite mercurial with some beautiful passages in the middle movements. Also the recording contains Eden, which I'd call modern-ironic with its humorous orchestral passages...a exciting piece! The 5th will be my next purchase. He reminds me of some of the Finnish composers.
Have just pre-ordered Symphony 5 having read some positive reviews online.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 14, 2018, 11:09:35 AM
Now, don't all respond at once! (Are we allowed to use sarcasm on GMG Forum? - as a teacher I was banned from doing so (not personally) so maybe I'm making up for lost time.)
Anyway, I was under instructions to clear my CDs out of my daughter's room before she returns after a year+ in Ukraine and I thought that I'd use the opportunity to rationalise (hahaha) my CD collection by giving some away to charity shops (mainly those I'd purchased two or three times without realising it). Anyway, I came across a CD of music by Philip Spratley (great name for largely unknown living British composer). I assumed that I'd impulse bought it and not enjoyed it and put it in the charity box - and then I thought maybe I should just listen to a bit of it again and, to my amazement, I thought that the music was excellent! Especially Symphony 3 'Sinfonia Pascale' inspired by three modern stained glass windows that the composer came across on the visit to a rebuilt church in Jerusalem. All I can say is that I've played it, with increasing enjoyment, about five times over the past two days. In fact I've put together a mini 'CD Concert' for myself, beginning with Atterberg's 'The River' - another recent discovery, through this forum, and then playing Philip Spratley's 'Sinfonia Pascale'. It is 'modern' though tonal and reminded me a bit of Daniel Jones (cilgwyn - are you there?) but maybe with greater urgency. It also, at times reminded me of Scandinavian composers whose music I admire like Englund. It has a very exciting and inspiriting ending which had me on the end of my seat:


Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 15, 2018, 06:26:51 AM
(mainly those I'd purchased two or three times without realising it)

Oh, I dare not cast a stone . . . .
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 15, 2018, 01:03:07 PM
Oh, I dare not cast a stone . . . .

Hehe - thank you Karl.
At least my Spratley post was still there. I thought that maybe it was the one to cause the whole Forum to crash, thus ushering in 'The Great GMG Forum Meltdown'  :o

Phew!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Baron Scarpia on February 15, 2018, 01:05:15 PM
Hehe - thank you Karl.
At least my Spratley post was still there. I thought that maybe it was the one to cause the whole Forum to crash, thus ushering in 'The Great GMG Forum Meltdown'  :o

Phew!

I was composing a post on the Trump thread and when I hit post I got the database error message. Maybe I'm the guilty party. :(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 15, 2018, 01:16:56 PM
I was composing a post on the Trump thread and when I hit post I got the database error message. Maybe I'm the guilty party. :(
I'm sure that they'll be a full public enquiry!
 8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 15, 2018, 01:18:09 PM
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/096/MI0001096068.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

The Charles Villiers Stanford Requiem, op. 63, is one of his mature works that has only received the one recording (also available on Marco Polo).  Wonderful work.
How interesting! I like symphonies 3 and 5 and the Irish Rhapsody 4 but here is clearly another work to investigate.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2018, 01:57:02 PM
I like the CD of orchestral music by Robin Walker (born 1953). It is monolithic/granatic, powerful and approachable. The only composer whose music I was reminded of was the Icelandic composer Jon Leifs:


I have a number of the Toccata releases of lesser known British composers but this, together with the Spratley CD (above) is my favourite.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on April 17, 2018, 03:11:03 PM
I like the CD of orchestral music by Robin Walker (born 1953). It is monolithic/granatic, powerful and approachable. The only composer whose music I was reminded of was the Icelandic composer Jon Leifs:


I have a number of the Toccata releases of lesser known British composers but this, together with the Spratley CD (above) is my favourite.

I very much enjoy this release as well but find the association closer to Bruckner though a modern version.  An excellent CD.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2018, 09:40:09 PM
I very much enjoy this release as well but find the association closer to Bruckner though a modern version.  An excellent CD.

Good to hear!

I sent him a fan email and had a very nice reply.

I think Sibelius is probably another influence but his style is original.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 18, 2018, 08:28:02 PM
I was composing a post on the Trump thread and when I hit post I got the database error message. Maybe I'm the guilty party. :(
It was the cuss-words that did it! :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on April 18, 2018, 11:41:41 PM
Any James Dillon fans on here?

I recently got a hold of a score of his incredible piano concerto to find some of the most ghastly score engraving I have ever seen come from a professional music publishing house. It's a real shame, quality score engraving will impact whether musicians want to perform a composer's music!

Here is what it sounds like, at least:

https://www.youtube.com/v/CEbC72drbuA

It has a certain neo-romantic flair to it, more so than some of his other music. Perhaps owing to the fact that it is an orchestral work and he wanted to play it safe[r] to at least ensure a good performance? Interesting question to consider........personally I wouldn't want to make a compromise like that for professional musicians but it would be perfectly understandable if it were composed for a high school or youth orchestra.

Here's another orchestral work. Very attractive:

https://www.youtube.com/v/37R-hSSMxL0
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on November 22, 2018, 01:15:48 AM
The Savoy Operas have always enjoyed a strong following but listening to his "Irish" Symphony I wonder where his talent as a composer would have taken Arthur Sullivan if he had not met Mr Gilbert. His symphony is excellent and original in so many ways. It is obvious even to my untrained ear that Sullivan is a master of orchestration, I was particularly struck by the use of solo instruments to create colour. I can only think the reason this fine symphony is not taken seriously is the association with the Savoy Opera.

  (https://i.imgur.com/DRUd2VF.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 22, 2018, 05:39:32 AM
How interesting! I like symphonies 3 and 5 and the Irish Rhapsody 4 but here is clearly another work to investigate.

The Irish Rhapsody no 4 is a beauty. It should be programmed in concert houses. It would make a great impression on the general public if they had a chance to hear it.

I listened to it this week in this version:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51anxI1zpHL.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 22, 2018, 05:59:49 AM
The Irish Rhapsody no 4 is a beauty. It should be programmed in concert houses. It would make a great impression on the general public if they had a chance to hear it.

I listened to it this week in this version:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51anxI1zpHL.jpg)

That's a really nice CD. Yes, that Irish Rhapsody No.4 is perhaps my favourite work by Stanford.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on November 22, 2018, 07:40:17 AM
Now, don't all respond at once! (Are we allowed to use sarcasm on GMG Forum? - as a teacher I was banned from doing so (not personally) so maybe I'm making up for lost time.)
Anyway, I was under instructions to clear my CDs out of my daughter's room before she returns after a year+ in Ukraine and I thought that I'd use the opportunity to rationalise (hahaha) my CD collection by giving some away to charity shops (mainly those I'd purchased two or three times without realising it). Anyway, I came across a CD of music by Philip Spratley (great name for largely unknown living British composer). I assumed that I'd impulse bought it and not enjoyed it and put it in the charity box - and then I thought maybe I should just listen to a bit of it again and, to my amazement, I thought that the music was excellent! Especially Symphony 3 'Sinfonia Pascale' inspired by three modern stained glass windows that the composer came across on the visit to a rebuilt church in Jerusalem. All I can say is that I've played it, with increasing enjoyment, about five times over the past two days. In fact I've put together a mini 'CD Concert' for myself, beginning with Atterberg's 'The River' - another recent discovery, through this forum, and then playing Philip Spratley's 'Sinfonia Pascale'. It is 'modern' though tonal and reminded me a bit of Daniel Jones (cilgwyn - are you there?) but maybe with greater urgency. It also, at times reminded me of Scandinavian composers whose music I admire like Englund. It has a very exciting and inspiriting ending which had me on the end of my seat:


Interesting! Poetry is one branch of the arts that has always left me baffled,and  strangely,cold! I like a few poems,though;and I've always rather liked that John Masefield poem. It used to be rather popular years ago. Well,maybe not popular? But,I think you hear more of his children's novels,these days. The Midnight Folk and The Box of Delights. Which I loved,incidentally! And a work inspired by the poem?!! Hm?!! ??? ;D I looked at the cd on Amazon,and the back of the cd states that the Symphony had it's "initial impulses" (an odd choice of words?) in trips to North Wales and Jerusalem. The first volume appears to be of String music,I note!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 22, 2018, 02:46:16 PM
Interesting! Poetry is one branch of the arts that has always left me baffled,and  strangely,cold! I like a few poems,though;and I've always rather liked that John Masefield poem. It used to be rather popular years ago. Well,maybe not popular? But,I think you hear more of his children's novels,these days. The Midnight Folk and The Box of Delights. Which I loved,incidentally! And a work inspired by the poem?!! Hm?!! ??? ;D I looked at the cd on Amazon,and the back of the cd states that the Symphony had it's "initial impulses" (an odd choice of words?) in trips to North Wales and Jerusalem. The first volume appears to be of String music,I note!

I suspect that you'd like Spratley's symphony cilgwyn.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 22, 2018, 05:12:27 PM
Thanks for the hat tip on Spratley. I’ve put it on my wish list. It’s strange that we should thank the Siberians for that release... ::)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 23, 2018, 08:08:54 AM
Listening to this after many years of fallow. So many, actually, that I had totally forgotten how it sounded. The answer: superb ! The music is complex, inventive and ingenious - yet entirely listenable. Strongly recommended.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BIdCuavBL.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on November 23, 2018, 09:24:38 AM
Listening to this after many years of fallow. So many, actually, that I had totally forgotten how it sounded. The answer: superb ! The music is complex, inventive and ingenious - yet entirely listenable. Strongly recommended.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BIdCuavBL.jpg)
Great to read, it is! Three years ago, I decided to try the other Kinsella symphonies: all of them recorded except for No. 8 (and Nos. 1 and 2 only available in radio recordings, also on Youtube). My conclusion, the others are equally superb, especially the disc combining Nos. 6 and 7:
(https://img.rasset.ie/0005a3f6-990.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 23, 2018, 10:08:39 AM
Thanks for the tip, I put 6 and 7 in my cart. I didn’t see nos 5 or 10 anywhere.

No 9 can be found here, but it’s not exactly cheap:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S06pcJ3QL.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SymphonicAddict on November 23, 2018, 11:00:28 AM
Kinsella certainly sounds quite interesting. I've played some excerpts on Spotify and I liked very very much what I heard.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on November 23, 2018, 11:05:47 AM
Kinsella certainly sounds quite interesting. I've played some excerpts on Spotify and I liked very very much what I heard.
Agreed, you would love it. The Marco Polo disc with symphonies 3 & 4 is a great place to start.  ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SymphonicAddict on November 23, 2018, 12:33:09 PM
Agreed, you would love it. The Marco Polo disc with symphonies 3 & 4 is a great place to start.  ;)

It was precisely the CD I played. Wow, this is terrific indeed! Both symphonies sound so fresh, with some important climaxes. I perceive some ideas mostly from Tubin and Sibelius in the No. 3 and also from Simpson in the No. 4. The No. 3 was substantial but I liked the No. 4 the most: it's a symphony of the first order IMHO, widely atmospheric, with appealing themes and development. This is a composer I'll investigate more deeply for sure.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 23, 2018, 01:10:31 PM
I’m listening to it again as I write and am just as impressed. This is great stuff indeed. Kinsella’s ideas - themes, orchestration, structure - are original and his treatment of the material is masterly. The program notes, although brief, are very helpful. Definitely a disc to have.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 23, 2018, 03:35:38 PM
That Marco Polo CD with symphonies 3 and 4 made a huge impression on me. The Gramophone review linked them to the symphonies by Tubin and Lilburn (although they are quite different) which immediately appealed to me. No 3 is my favourite but I find the return of the 'prevailing wind' motto theme at the end of Symphony 4 to be overwhelming. The CD with 6 and 7 on is, I agree, great too. He sent a charming letter to me after I wrote to him care of RTE Dublin and arranged for a couple of sampler CDs featuring some of his music to be sent to me which was very kind. My brother met someone who knew Kinsella and who referred to him as 'a lovely man'.

PS I'm not too sure how pleased Kinsella would be to be referred to as 'British' as he is Irish!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Daverz on November 23, 2018, 04:45:19 PM
Would Kinsella, born in Dublin, identify as British?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 23, 2018, 04:52:34 PM
Blame the thread’s initiator and his original list, then. It includes some irish composers... ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JBS on November 23, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Emend the Title to
The British Isles Composers Thread
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JBS on November 23, 2018, 05:48:02 PM
Thanks for the tip, I put 6 and 7 in my cart. I didn’t see nos 5 or 10 anywhere.

No 9 can be found here, but it’s not exactly cheap:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S06pcJ3QL.jpg)

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 23, 2018, 06:16:31 PM
Hey, thanks (again) !
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2018, 12:04:22 PM
Would Kinsella, born in Dublin, identify as British?
No but with Brexit it hardly matters.
 8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: cilgwyn on November 26, 2018, 10:59:20 AM
Is everyone aware of Nimbus' Black Friday Sale (50% of their entire catalogue;Lyrita included!)?! You just put the code supplied in the email (if you subscribe to their "mail shots") at the checkout! The offer is Valid until 23:59 tonight. I just bought the 3cd box set of Iris Loveridge playing Bax's piano music & the 3cd set of Alan Rowland's playing the complete piano music of John Ireland for a total of £19.99,for both sets (Normally £39.99). As a fan of these composers piano compositions I've always fancied acquiring these pioneering sets,but the outlay was a bit much........so I grabbed my chance!! ::) ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2018, 12:04:19 PM
Is everyone aware of Nimbus' Black Friday Sale (50% of their entire catalogue;Lyrita included!)?! You just put the code supplied in the email (if you subscribe to their "mail shots") at the checkout! The offer is Valid until 23:59 tonight. I just bought the 3cd box set of Iris Loveridge playing Bax's piano music & the 3cd set of Alan Rowland's playing the complete piano music of John Ireland for a total of £19.99,for both sets (Normally £39.99). As a fan of these composers piano compositions I've always fancied acquiring these pioneering sets,but the outlay was a bit much........so I grabbed my chance!! ::) ;D
Thanks for alerting us to this cilgwyn.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on December 07, 2018, 05:46:41 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51D9cSWta3L.jpg)

Another "British Isles Composer"  ;) . Frank Corcoran was born in Tipperary, Ireland. He studied in Dublin, Rome and  Berlin, where he was taught by Boris Blacher. He developed a musical language based on macro-counterpoint. Never heard of that before ? Me neither. Whatever the theory behind it (it’s explained in the wiki article on the composer), it sounds off-putting and grates the ear. Nonetheless, as the music unfolds, there seems to be a logic of sorts at work. The 2nd and 4th symphonies are short one movement works. The 3rd, which I found the most interesting, is in 2 movements titled ‘soli’ and ‘tutti’.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on December 11, 2018, 08:50:06 AM
I'm always excited when I discover new-to-me British composers, and I've recently discovered another one in Richard Arnell. I've previewed the epic-scale Symphony No. 3, and I'm a big fan.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on December 11, 2018, 08:54:21 AM
+1

Vandermolen introduced me to Arnell a few years ago  ;). A wonderful composer indeed !
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 11, 2018, 11:20:22 AM
+1

Vandermolen introduced me to Arnell a few years ago  ;). A wonderful composer indeed !

Arnell was a great discovery for me and am so glad that others here appreciate his music as well . Other than the wartime epic No.3 I'd recommend No.5, in memory of his father. No.3 was I think related to his mother's death in the Blitz on London. I ended up writing to him at the Musician's Benevolent Home in Bromley, London. He sent me two lovely cards from there and it means a lot to me that I communicated my love of his music to him. All his symphonic music is of great interest.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on December 11, 2018, 03:46:51 PM
+1
Vandermolen introduced me to Arnell a few years ago  ;). A wonderful composer indeed !
Another admirer here.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on December 13, 2018, 08:36:36 AM
As already posted in the Purchases thread, today I picked up the 4-disc British Symphonies set from Lyrita, so I am now awash with many new British symphonic treasures. Currently listening to the Symphony in G minor by William Sterndale Bennett, which I believe is now the earliest British symphony in my collection, dating from 1864-67. I'm really enjoying it. The 2nd movement has a highly original trio section scored for brass alone.

I'm really looking forward to hearing Grace Williams' Symphony No. 2, as it's not only a Welsh symphony, but it was premiered at my home city's festival back in 1957.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 13, 2018, 11:46:16 AM
As already posted in the Purchases thread, today I picked up the 4-disc British Symphonies set from Lyrita, so I am now awash with many new British symphonic treasures. Currently listening to the Symphony in G minor by William Sterndale Bennett, which I believe is now the earliest British symphony in my collection, dating from 1864-67. I'm really enjoying it. The 2nd movement has a highly original trio section scored for brass alone.

I'm really looking forward to hearing Grace Williams' Symphony No. 2, as it's not only a Welsh symphony, but it was premiered at my home city's festival back in 1957.

The Grace Williams Symphony 2 is great. She was a pupil of VW and some of his 6th symphony's turbulence and angst are replicated in her Symphony, although she was an individual composer in her own right.

Thanks for the heads-up re Sterndale Bennett - I've never listened to it  ::)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on December 13, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
Wow! I'm extremely impressed with John Joubert's Symphony No. 1, which I've just finished listening to. Oddly enough I was reading a bit about him the other day. Happy to see he's still with us, at 91 years of age.

I also really enjoyed Grace Williams' 2nd Symphony, which is the longest work on this box set.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 13, 2018, 01:16:13 PM
Wow! I'm extremely impressed with John Joubert's Symphony No. 1, which I've just finished listening to. Oddly enough I was reading a bit about him the other day. Happy to see he's still with us, at 91 years of age.

I also really enjoyed Grace Williams' 2nd Symphony, which is the longest work on this box set.

Joubert's Third Symphony, just released by Lyrita, is also very good.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on December 15, 2018, 01:28:04 PM
Wow! I'm extremely impressed with John Joubert's Symphony No. 1, which I've just finished listening to. Oddly enough I was reading a bit about him the other day. Happy to see he's still with us, at 91 years of age.

Yes, a great work! I particularly like the darkly tragic slow movement and the energetic finale. His Piano Concerto, coupled with the 3rd Symphony on the new Lyrita CD, is also very fine. Haven't gotten around to listening to the 3rd Symphony yet.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on December 19, 2018, 02:55:36 PM
The Grace Williams Symphony 2 is great. She was a pupil of VW and some of his 6th symphony's turbulence and angst are replicated in her Symphony, although she was an individual composer in her own right.
Started playing here again. Good to realize that RVW 'taught' at least four highly talented women composers, all with a personal voice: Elizabeth Maconchy, Ina Boyle, Ruth Gipps and Grace Williams. I don't think any of them copied his style; but somehow all went 'their own way' just like he did - and encouraged them to do.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JBS on December 20, 2018, 07:19:20 PM
Started in on the Lyrita British String Concertos. The Holst Double Concerto is a gem, especially the third movement (Variations on a Ground)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91j09AtLsqL.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 20, 2018, 11:16:59 PM
Started in on the Lyrita British String Concertos. The Holst Double Concerto is a gem, especially the third movement (Variations on a Ground)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91j09AtLsqL.jpg)
I also like the Morgan Violin Concerto very much.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on December 21, 2018, 01:28:00 AM
I must give the Morgan a spin. That is a great list, I'm quite jealous. :-\  Finzi is lovely and a shame he didn't complete his concerto. The Gerhard is in brilliant sound and an interesting composer. I have not heard Busch, Rubbra and Hoddinott but very much would like to. For me the only duff one is Don Banks.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on December 22, 2018, 12:22:19 AM
I must give the Morgan a spin.

Vandermolen has mentioned the Morgan violin concerto twice, which is once enough for me. :) A fabulous concerto, modern in a good way. That such an important and original work my a composer largely forgotten defies belief - is there any other recordings other then the Lyrita of VC and "Contrasts"? Looking on the net he emigrated to Canada at one point and died at 55.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on December 22, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
I feel like this is worth pointing out in this thread: Alan Bush (born otd in 1900) is the Featured Article on the English-language Wikipedia today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 12:48:33 AM
Vandermolen has mentioned the Morgan violin concerto twice, which is once enough for me. :) A fabulous concerto, modern in a good way. That such an important and original work my a composer largely forgotten defies belief - is there any other recordings other then the Lyrita of VC and "Contrasts"? Looking on the net he emigrated to Canada at one point and died at 55.
There seems to be very little. I'd love to hear his Sinfonia da Requiem for example (1971-2) and Variations on a Theme by Walton. I agree with your comment about modern music at its best.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on December 23, 2018, 05:36:38 AM
While I like many British composers, the only one in my personal top 10 is Walton. It's a shame that his output is rather small.  :(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on December 23, 2018, 09:00:16 AM
There seems to be very little. I'd love to hear his Sinfonia da Requiem for example (1971-2) and Variations on a Theme by Walton. I agree with your comment about modern music at its best.
Also a string quartet. But you are right, listening to the violin concerto with its brilliant orchestration the larger scale works would be the first port of call.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on December 27, 2018, 02:17:30 PM
Not sure if this belongs here since he was born in Australia, but I recently discovered Arthur Benjamin’s Symphony (1945), and WOW! What a stunning work! It’s a grippingly dramatic, masterfully scored, memorable work which doesn’t have a single dull moment. The first two movements have a nervous, stormy energy, the slow movement is darkly passionate, and the finale is a stirring triumph-over-the-odds conclusion. Much as I love RVW’s symphonies, I think I even prefer it to most of them, which is no small praise! Like Korngold and Damase, I wish Benjamin had written many more symphonies. This recording with the LPO under Barry Wordsworth is first-rate in all regards:

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 28, 2018, 12:43:23 AM
Not sure if this belongs here since he was born in Australia, but I recently discovered Arthur Benjamin’s Symphony (1945), and WOW! What a stunning work! It’s a grippingly dramatic, masterfully scored, memorable work which doesn’t have a single dull moment. The first two movements have a nervous, stormy energy, the slow movement is darkly passionate, and the finale is a stirring triumph-over-the-odds conclusion. Much as I love RVW’s symphonies, I think I even prefer it to most of them, which is no small praise! Like Korngold and Damase, I wish Benjamin had written many more symphonies. This recording with the LPO under Barry Wordsworth is first-rate in all regards:



It's a fabulous symphony - I agree Kyle. He was Australian but mostly lived in the UK and was a friend of VW's. They're is another performance on Marco Polo and also a fine old John Barbirolli recording, possibly of the first performance. The Lyrita is the best though.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on December 28, 2018, 06:51:26 AM
I have the Marco Polo disc but haven’t listened to it in ages. It’s in the listening pile, now  ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 28, 2018, 11:20:03 AM
I have the Marco Polo disc but haven’t listened to it in ages. It’s in the listening pile, now  ;)
Excellent! The Marco Polo has the moving 'Ballade for String Orchestra' which is not on the Lyrita disc - worth having for that.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 14, 2019, 10:23:53 PM
I'm a fan of the Benjamin Symphony too. Does any know of a recording of his string quartets, I understand he wrote two.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2019, 11:31:06 PM
I'm a fan of the Benjamin Symphony too. Does any know of a recording of his string quartets, I understand he wrote two.
The only thing I can see is a Pastoral Fantasy for String Quartet:
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on June 22, 2019, 09:36:43 AM
Now, don't all respond at once! (Are we allowed to use sarcasm on GMG Forum? - as a teacher I was banned from doing so (not personally) so maybe I'm making up for lost time.)
Anyway, I was under instructions to clear my CDs out of my daughter's room before she returns after a year+ in Ukraine and I thought that I'd use the opportunity to rationalise (hahaha) my CD collection by giving some away to charity shops (mainly those I'd purchased two or three times without realising it). Anyway, I came across a CD of music by Philip Spratley (great name for largely unknown living British composer). I assumed that I'd impulse bought it and not enjoyed it and put it in the charity box - and then I thought maybe I should just listen to a bit of it again and, to my amazement, I thought that the music was excellent! Especially Symphony 3 'Sinfonia Pascale' inspired by three modern stained glass windows that the composer came across on the visit to a rebuilt church in Jerusalem. All I can say is that I've played it, with increasing enjoyment, about five times over the past two days. In fact I've put together a mini 'CD Concert' for myself, beginning with Atterberg's 'The River' - another recent discovery, through this forum, and then playing Philip Spratley's 'Sinfonia Pascale'. It is 'modern' though tonal and reminded me a bit of Daniel Jones (cilgwyn - are you there?) but maybe with greater urgency. It also, at times reminded me of Scandinavian composers whose music I admire like Englund. It has a very exciting and inspiriting ending which had me on the end of my seat:



Thanks for the advocacy, Jeffrey! I have had the disc for some time now but only opened it this week.

Very good music from a composer who definitely has an original voice. The music that I found most immediately appealing is the Cargoes Suite. The beautiful theme from the first movement is straight out of Delius (Florida Suite, Daybreak), but it has its own personality. As a whole (close to 20 minutes) it would make a wonderful concert opener. The Helpston Fantasia is that familiar british specialty, the folk dances and songs fantasia. Very nice work with an amiable, bucolic mien.

The symphony is a very different proposal. Cast in 3 largish movements of equal proportions, it’s a serious piece of work, now turbulent, now gloomy. Gone are the maritime and countryside vistas of the previous works, replaced by abstract but vividly picturesque displays of orchestral strife. Spratley writes in full sentences and paragraphs - nothing is epigrammatic, elliptic or merely allusive (like Simpson for example). The music is imposing, majestic, like a pared down, modern equivalent of Bax. Very catchy. Now, where are his first two symphonies ?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 22, 2019, 12:50:24 PM
"Very good music from a composer who definitely has an original voice."

I must have got a different disk in my CD case then, I wasn't impressed at all! The music was very short-breathed, lacking in inspiration and rooted in nothing at all really. Didn't get many stars from me.

Time and again on this forum I have to think de gustibus non est disputandum.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 22, 2019, 04:05:49 PM
Someone's crap is another's treasure or viceversa  :D ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on June 22, 2019, 11:04:31 PM
Someone's crap is another's treasure or viceversa  :D ;)

True that.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on June 23, 2019, 06:11:37 AM
Thanks for the advocacy, Jeffrey! I have had the disc for some time now but only opened it this week.

Very good music from a composer who definitely has an original voice. The music that I found most immediately appealing is the Cargoes Suite. The beautiful theme from the first movement is straight out of Delius (Florida Suite, Daybreak), but it has its own personality. As a whole (close to 20 minutes) it would make a wonderful concert opener. The Helpston Fantasia is that familiar british specialty, the folk dances and songs fantasia. Very nice work with an amiable, bucolic mien.

The symphony is a very different proposal. Cast in 3 largish movements of equal proportions, it’s a serious piece of work, now turbulent, now gloomy. Gone are the maritime and countryside vistas of the previous works, replaced by abstract but vividly picturesque displays of orchestral strife. Spratley writes in full sentences and paragraphs - nothing is epigrammatic, elliptic or merely allusive (like Simpson for example). The music is imposing, majestic, like a pared down, modern equivalent of Bax. Very catchy. Now, where are his first two symphonies ?

I also very much enjoyed Spratley’s 3rd Symphony, thanks to Jeffrey (haven’t listened to the other works on the disc yet). It’s a serious, often granitic work yet not without moments of vivid color and I found it more approachable than, say, most of Brian or Simpson.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2019, 09:40:26 AM
I also very much enjoyed Spratley’s 3rd Symphony, thanks to Jeffrey (haven’t listened to the other works on the disc yet). It’s a serious, often granitic work yet not without moments of vivid color and I found it more approachable than, say, most of Brian or Simpson.
Glad you enjoyed it Kyle.  :)
Along with the granitic orchestral works by Robin Walker I think that it is my favourite of those Toccata releases.

'Chacun a son gout'

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 28, 2019, 01:43:47 PM
I see that BBC Radio 3 is broadcasting the premiere of Martin Yates completion of Robin Mitford's Symphony No.2 in a concert on 2 July at 2pm UK time.

Some of you will have the Mitford Violin Concerto on disk and that is quite a pleasant work. (Personally I find his work as I said, pleasant, without being compelling, but any friend of Finzi is a friend of mine!)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on June 28, 2019, 02:46:14 PM
Derek Bourgeois was a very fine British composer.  One of my favorite 20th/21st century composers. 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on June 28, 2019, 04:08:44 PM
Alwyn
Arnold
Delius
Elgar
Jones
Kinsella
Turnage
Vaughan Williams
Walton

In the no 10 spot: Bantock, Bax, Bliss, Holst... :P
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 28, 2019, 04:50:23 PM
Alwyn
Arnold
Delius
Elgar
Jones
Kinsella
Turnage
Vaughan Williams
Walton

In the no 10 spot: Bantock, Bax, Bliss, Holst... :P

I guess you intended to post it on the Polling Station, didn't you?  :P
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 02, 2019, 12:44:33 PM
I see that BBC Radio 3 is broadcasting the premiere of Martin Yates completion of Robin Mitford's Symphony No.2 in a concert on 2 July at 2pm UK time.

Some of you will have the Mitford Violin Concerto on disk and that is quite a pleasant work. (Personally I find his work as I said, pleasant, without being compelling, but any friend of Finzi is a friend of mine!)

Robin MiLford.....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2019, 12:50:15 PM
Robin MiLford.....

I happened by chance to hear this premiere performance of Robin Milford's Symphony 2 in the car today. I thought it sounded a pleasant work at the start rather in the spirit of Finzi, Moeran and Dyson but was totally unprepared for the slow movement which I found very darkly moving and eloquent, making me tear up at one point. I do hope that Dutton release it on CD. I think that Vaughan Williams thought very highly of the Symphony. Milford had a very sad life.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on July 02, 2019, 11:48:15 PM
Yes Milford, not Mitford, it's coming to a bad pass when you don't even notice Autocorrect!

I listened to the symphony too and was also pleasantly moved by the slow movement. I liked the other movements too; it's not often you get a symphony that is genuinely light-hearted without being trivial. I will listen to it again before it disappears, and hope a recording ensues.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on July 03, 2019, 06:17:10 AM
I happened by chance to hear this premiere performance of Robin Milford's Symphony 2 in the car today. I thought it sounded a pleasant work at the start rather in the spirit of Finzi, Moeran and Dyson but was totally unprepared for the slow movement which I found very darkly moving and eloquent, making me tear up at one point. I do hope that Dutton release it on CD. I think that Vaughan Williams thought very highly of the Symphony. Milford had a very sad life.

What is the Milford No. 2?  It isn't listed here in his site.  http://www.robinmilfordtrust.org.uk/robins-workd
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on July 03, 2019, 06:50:48 AM
What is the Milford No. 2?  It isn't listed here in his site.  http://www.robinmilfordtrust.org.uk/robins-workd
The radio broadcast of the world premiere of this Symphony No. 2 from 1933 is still here (BBC Concert Orchestra, Martin Yates conducting; introduction starting at 1:23'00): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0006ffy
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 03, 2019, 07:09:44 AM
The radio broadcast of the world premiere of this Symphony No. 2 from 1933 is still here (BBC Concert Orchestra, Martin Yates conducting; introduction starting at 1:23'00): https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0006ffy

Thanks for link. Listening now, and liking it.

Sarge
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2019, 01:25:35 AM
Interesting new release. I'm hearing 'Lamia' by Dorothy Howell at the Proms in a couple of week's time:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 05, 2019, 03:01:16 AM
Interesting new release. I'm hearing 'Lamia' by Dorothy Howell at the Proms in a couple of week's time:

Some interesting pieces, just downloaded it from Chandos. Now listening to Cowen's Reverie as a taster.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 05, 2019, 05:04:15 AM
Reposted from the “pieces that have blown you away recently” thread:

Just made a most wonderful discovery - the tone poem Aurora by William Lloyd Webber (yes, the father of the much more famous Andrew and Julian). This is sensuous, incandescent music depicting the Roman goddess of the dawn. The main theme that appears a minute or so into the piece is a glorious gift of a melody that has staying power. This is a relatively brief but stunning piece which makes me regret that he mostly wrote small-scale works.

https://youtu.be/S-DRoD4Jh2A

It’s featured on this Chandos disc:

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 05, 2019, 05:19:49 AM
Interesting new release. I'm hearing 'Lamia' by Dorothy Howell at the Proms in a couple of week's time:

Intrigued by this, Jeffrey. Yet another composer to win a Cobbett prize for a "Phantasy". Walter Cobbett does not receive the acclaim due to him for his promotion and support of British chamber music.

Fascinating to read of Howell's connection with Elgar on her Wiki page.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Howell_(composer)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2019, 10:18:28 PM
Some interesting pieces, just downloaded it from Chandos. Now listening to Cowen's Reverie as a taster.
Foulds's 'April' has always been a favourite of mine.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2019, 10:22:13 PM
Reposted from the “pieces that have blown you away recently” thread:

Just made a most wonderful discovery - the tone poem Aurora by William Lloyd Webber (yes, the father of the much more famous Andrew and Julian). This is sensuous, incandescent music depicting the Roman goddess of the dawn. The main theme that appears a minute or so into the piece is a glorious gift of a melody that has staying power. This is a relatively brief but stunning piece which makes me regret that he mostly wrote small-scale works.

https://youtu.be/S-DRoD4Jh2A

It’s featured on this Chandos disc:


Interesting Kyle. The opening reminded me of Vaughan Williams.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2019, 10:26:19 PM
Intrigued by this, Jeffrey. Yet another composer to win a Cobbett prize for a "Phantasy". Walter Cobbett does not receive the acclaim due to him for his promotion and support of British chamber music.

Fascinating to read of Howell's connection with Elgar on her Wiki page.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Howell_(composer)
Interesting about her tending Elgar's grave and you are right about Cobbett Lol.
Here is the CD I have featuring Lamia:
(http://)
And here's the music:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=McSr9sq2qoU
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 06, 2019, 05:58:37 AM
Interesting about her tending Elgar's grave and you are right about Cobbett Lol.
Here is the CD I have featuring Lamia:
(http://)
And here's the music:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=McSr9sq2qoU

Many thanks for link, Jeffrey. A lovely piece which due to the rhapsodic nature reminded me of Bax (and Ravel) - which may be due to me listening to a lot of Bax at the moment - although Lamia was composed before any of the Bax symphonies.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 06, 2019, 08:08:59 AM
Many thanks for link, Jeffrey. A lovely piece which due to the rhapsodic nature reminded me of Bax (and Ravel) - which may be due to me listening to a lot of Bax at the moment - although Lamia was composed before any of the Bax symphonies.
My pleasure Lol. Glad you liked it. I agree about the Bax/Ravel comparison. I shall look forward to the Chandos recording and hearing the work live at thr Proms.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Oates on August 07, 2019, 01:19:51 AM
Interesting new release. I'm hearing 'Lamia' by Dorothy Howell at the Proms in a couple of week's time:

Yes, this looks interesting, though I'd have preferred a few more CD premiers on there myself. Goossens' By The Tarn is a favourite of mine in a very pastoral vein (for him), like a close relation to Moeran's Lonely Water.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 07, 2019, 03:17:46 AM
Working my way through the Chandos British Tone Poems disc (Vol 2). So far Merok by Eric Fogg has been the pick of the bunch, Lamia is yet to come.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2019, 04:14:42 AM
I also like 'By the Tarn' and 'Merok' which I have on a Dutton CD with the rather fine Symphony 2 by Erik Chisholm.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 11, 2019, 02:16:56 PM
What other composers do you consider worth exploration who don't have a thread of their own?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 11, 2019, 11:13:22 PM
What other composers do you consider worth exploration who don't have a thread of their own?

Robert Still does have a thread of his own which although had an excellent and informative introduction seems to have generated next to no interest. I particularly enjoy the 3rd Symphony.

(https://img.discogs.com/3Ig0TUWidfgLwyiouZpB09Ix-L8=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5683481-1399825354-9893.jpeg.jpg) 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 12, 2019, 01:52:50 AM
+1 for Robert Still

But the area that I'm not sure that has been covered much here (perhaps it has but before I joined) - there are so many fine British composers of (I hate the term!) "Light" music.  John Foulds is a case in point of someone who writes effectively both in the "light" and "serious" genres but to him I would add;

Frederic Curzon
Arthur Wood (seriously under-rated)
Harry Farjeon (all but forgotten)
Alec Rowley (more than just a composer of teaching music)
Haydn Wood (not forgotten but not as appreciated as he deserves)
Albert Ketelbey (a great CD from the Philharmonia deserves to be heard!)
Frederic Rosse (famous in his time - forgotten now)
Montague Phillips (a couple of Dutton CD's scratch the surface)
Norman O'Neill (one of the Frankfurt group whose music is now all but forgotten)
Fred Hartley (stunning arranger but some nice original compositions too)

and of course that takes no account of the more famous ones such as Coates/Binge/German etc who had discs in the valuable but far from ideal Marco Polo series of "British Light Music Classics" back in the '90's


Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2019, 03:04:19 AM
+2 for Still.

I'd add Patrick Hadley (1899-1973). I consider 'The Trees so High', a symphony with vocal last movement, to be an absolute masterpiece, very poignant and moving. There is an intimacy about it which is quite different, for example, from Vaughan Williams's music. The Chandos twofer with Sainton is one of my favourite CDs. Sainton does have his own thread although anyone who likes Bax, for example, should hear 'Nadir' and 'The Island'.

Armstrong Gibbs and Erik Chisholm also come to mind.

(http://)

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 12, 2019, 06:34:09 AM
+2 for Still.

I'd add Patrick Hadley (1899-1973). I consider 'The Trees so High', a symphony with vocal last movement, to be an absolute masterpiece, very poignant and moving. There is an intimacy about it which is quite different, for example, from Vaughan Williams's music. The Chandos twofer with Sainton is one of my favourite CDs. Sainton does have his own thread although anyone who,likes Bax, for example, should hear 'Nadir' and 'The Island'.

Armstrong Gibbs and Erik Chisholm also come to mind.



(http://)

Totally agree. "The Trees so High" is my discovery of the year. The work is blessed by two fine recordings by Chandos and Lyrita. Sainton, perhaps more obscure is excellent too.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on August 12, 2019, 06:55:53 AM
Thank you for the reminder of these discs. I have Hadley's The Hills as part of an EMI 5-fer (mainly covering Delius and Howells).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2019, 07:17:18 AM
Thank you for the reminder of these discs. I have Hadley's The Hills as part of an EMI 5-fer (mainly covering Delius and Howells).

You have to hear 'The Trees so High'. It is in a class of its own IMO. Lol (Irons) agrees.
 :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 12, 2019, 08:15:04 AM
Armstrong Gibbs and Erik Chisholm also come to mind.

+1 for Armstrong Gibbs. His Symphony no. 3 Westmorland is supremely moving and one of my favorite British symphonies. Like VW's 5th Symphony, it possesses an uplifting spiritual radiance despite (or perhaps because of) being written during WWII.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 12, 2019, 10:41:53 AM
Quite good suggestions, thank you all. I see some I don't know at all.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2019, 12:53:49 PM
+1 for Armstrong Gibbs. His Symphony no. 3 Westmorland is supremely moving and one of my favorite British symphonies. Like VW's 5th Symphony, it possesses an uplifting spiritual radiance despite (or perhaps because of) being written during WWII.
Yes, I agree. The poignancy is perhaps a consequence of Armstrong Gibbs losing his son in the war. The symphony is beautiful - I agree.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2019, 12:56:17 PM
Quite good suggestions, thank you all. I see some I don't know at all.
I expect that you'd enjoy the Armstrong Gibbs 'Westmorland' Symphony, as Kyle suggest  Cesar and also Sainton's 'Nadir'. Anyone who responds to Vaughan Williams should respond to Patrick Hadley's 'The Trees so High'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roy Bland on August 12, 2019, 02:49:29 PM
+1 for Armstrong Gibbs. His Symphony no. 3 Westmorland is supremely moving and one of my favorite British symphonies. Like VW's 5th Symphony, it possesses an uplifting spiritual radiance despite (or perhaps because of) being written during WWII.
Also his Symphony n 2. on Dutton IMHO is a great piece clearly inspired at RVW First
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 13, 2019, 05:59:51 AM
You have to hear 'The Trees so High'. It is in a class of its own IMO. Lol (Irons) agrees.
 :)

Thanks to this thread I listened to the Lyrita recording last night, Jeffrey. So beautifully paced and the choral ending is icing on cake.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 14, 2019, 01:20:41 AM
Thanks to this thread I listened to the Lyrita recording last night, Jeffrey. So beautifully paced and the choral ending is icing on cake.
Yes, it's a most wonderful performance Lol and one of Vernon Handley's finest achievements as well in my opinion. I wouldn't be without the Chandos twofer either, not least because of the Sainton works.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 14, 2019, 01:29:36 AM
Also his Symphony n 2. on Dutton IMHO is a great piece clearly inspired at RVW First

This is the 'Odysseus' Symphony I think. It didn't make much of an impression on me but I must have another listen to it following your recommendation.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on August 15, 2019, 01:40:46 AM
I'm looking to branch out into hearing more English/British composers. My knowledge there is limited almost entirely to Vaughan Williams, who I like but don't really love. His music is clearly great, but I have to be in the right mood, etc.

If anyone can point me in the direction of key works, or better yet great recordings of said works, that would be greatly appreciated. One I'm particularly curious about is Delius, as he spent time living in my home state of Florida and wrote music about it. I'm looking at this CD:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Hu0HaAiyL.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Hu0HaAiyL.jpg)

... anyone have it? Other than that, how are those EMI "British Composers" series discs? This one, for example, looks good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51lPq7DtM2L.jpg)

Elgar kind of mystifies me and I'm still looking for a way into his music. I'm convinced there is something great there but I don't know what.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 15, 2019, 03:01:54 AM
I'm looking to branch out into hearing more English/British composers. My knowledge there is limited almost entirely to Vaughan Williams, who I like but don't really love. His music is clearly great, but I have to be in the right mood, etc.

If anyone can point me in the direction of key works, or better yet great recordings of said works, that would be greatly appreciated. One I'm particularly curious about is Delius, as he spent time living in my home state of Florida and wrote music about it. I'm looking at this CD:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Hu0HaAiyL.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Hu0HaAiyL.jpg)

... anyone have it? Other than that, how are those EMI "British Composers" series discs? This one, for example, looks good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51lPq7DtM2L.jpg)

Elgar kind of mystifies me and I'm still looking for a way into his music. I'm convinced there is something great there but I don't know what.

I don't have the disc you mention but I do have a fine recording of the Florida Suite from Mackerras and the Welsh National Opera Orchestra. This Double Decca also contains his North Country Sketches and several shorter works. Appalachia is another work inspired by his time in America and one of my favourites; Mackerras/WNOO have also recorded that work for Decca. Both albums highly recommended.

Delius told Eric Fenby (his amanuensis and friend) that before moving to Florida he never looked at nature then for six months he did nothing else; clearly Florida made a big impact on him.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 15, 2019, 03:44:40 AM
I'm looking to branch out into hearing more English/British composers. My knowledge there is limited almost entirely to Vaughan Williams, who I like but don't really love. His music is clearly great, but I have to be in the right mood, etc.

If anyone can point me in the direction of key works, or better yet great recordings of said works, that would be greatly appreciated. One I'm particularly curious about is Delius, as he spent time living in my home state of Florida and wrote music about it. I'm looking at this CD:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Hu0HaAiyL.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Hu0HaAiyL.jpg)

... anyone have it? Other than that, how are those EMI "British Composers" series discs? This one, for example, looks good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51lPq7DtM2L.jpg)

Elgar kind of mystifies me and I'm still looking for a way into his music. I'm convinced there is something great there but I don't know what.

I have that CD and it is very good. Barbirolli was a fine interpreter of Elgar and Vaughan Williams. My favourite Delius work is 'In a Summer Garden' but also the Violin and Piano concerto. Might I suggest Moeran's Symphony as well worth exploring. There are a number of recordings.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 15, 2019, 05:21:08 AM


Elgar kind of mystifies me and I'm still looking for a way into his music. I'm convinced there is something great there but I don't know what.


I find it so interesting you say that and admire you a lot for having a go. I think it a fact that Elgar does not travel well and a few Americans I have talked to dismiss the 1st and admit there is worth in the 2nd. I think both symphonies are great and also the two concerti. Go for it! Barbirolli conducting Elgar's 1st Symphony and report back. I'm not sure Delius is a good starting point.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on August 15, 2019, 07:05:37 AM
Noted, thanks everyone. I’m listening to Mackerras’ recording of Delius’ Florida Suite and I like it. I like how atmospheric it is, very pastoral. I think this is a staple of English music or at least all that I know. I’ll look out for this two disc set.

I’ll give that Barbirolli/Elgar a shot. I have the Elgar Sea Pictures on Naxos and I like it, but before I got that (for free) I hadn’t heard anything of his that interested me. Anyway, I’m a fan of Barbirolli and I’ll give the music a shot on the strength of his interpretive abilities alone.

Moeran is one who was recently recommended to me as well. I’ll check out his first symphony.

Thanks anyone. Any other greats I’m missing?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 15, 2019, 12:27:39 PM
Noted, thanks everyone. I’m listening to Mackerras’ recording of Delius’ Florida Suite and I like it. I like how atmospheric it is, very pastoral. I think this is a staple of English music or at least all that I know. I’ll look out for this two disc set.

I’ll give that Barbirolli/Elgar a shot. I have the Elgar Sea Pictures on Naxos and I like it, but before I got that (for free) I hadn’t heard anything of his that interested me. Anyway, I’m a fan of Barbirolli and I’ll give the music a shot on the strength of his interpretive abilities alone.

Moeran is one who was recently recommended to me as well. I’ll check out his first symphony.

Thanks anyone. Any other greats I’m missing?
Yes, Walton Symphony 1
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 15, 2019, 09:55:39 PM
Yes, Walton Symphony 1

+1 for Walton 1..... and while you trying Walton listen to your local band here..... (James Judd/Aaron Rosand/Florida PO)



Judd is a fine conductor (who does an excellent Elgar 1 by the way) - but this includes some typically stirring film music plus the wonderful - and just recently departed - Aaron Rosand in the violin concerto.  This work shows the more elusive deeply lyrical side of Walton that the Symphony reveals less of.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 31, 2019, 10:49:59 AM
A marvellous (IMO) new release. I enjoyed every work (although less so the Cowen). However, the great new discovery for me was Patrick Hadley's tone poem 'Kinder Scout' of 1923. I expect that it will be of interest to Lol (Irons) of this forum in view of how much he enjoyed Hadley's poetic and moving masterpiece (which I can't recommend enough) 'The Trees so High'. 'Kinder Scout' lasts under seven minutes but I found it deeply affecting and am listening to it over and over again (or to use a phrase which amused the sadly missed cilgwyn, I can't stop playing it).
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on September 04, 2019, 10:31:36 AM
A marvellous (IMO) new release. I enjoyed every work (although less so the Cowen). However, the great new discovery for me was Patrick Hadley's tone poem 'Kinder Scout' of 1923. I expect that it will be of interest to Lol (Irons) of this forum in view of how much he enjoyed Hadley's poetic and moving masterpiece (which I can't recommend enough) 'The Trees so High'. 'Kinder Scout' lasts under seven minutes but I found it deeply affecting and am listening to it over and over again (or to use a phrase which amused the sadly missed cilgwyn, I can't stop playing it).
(http://)

Most interesting, Jeffrey. Another Hadley work is good news indeed, and 1923 is a significant year in the history of the football club I follow. Did you attend the recent Dorothy Howell Prom?

This gives me the opportunity to comment on the Alwyn VC after heads up from Jeffrey. On first hearing the subtlety of the work was lost on me but after subsequent hearings the penny dropped and I have grown to love the concerto. The first two movements are delicate and understated with a sad dreamlike quality. Melancholy is an overused term to describe music but this is what it is. The third movement is more traditional in concept. That the score sat forgotten in a draw for fifty years I cannot comprehend. I am full of admiration for the soloist Lydia Mordkovitch, a heavy hand would destroy this work but she does not fall into that trap. With her it is all about the music and respect for the composer. She was well taught by David Oistrakh.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2019, 11:55:04 AM
Most interesting, Jeffrey. Another Hadley work is good news indeed, and 1923 is a significant year in the history of the football club I follow. Did you attend the recent Dorothy Howell Prom?

This gives me the opportunity to comment on the Alwyn VC after heads up from Jeffrey. On first hearing the subtlety of the work was lost on me but after subsequent hearings the penny dropped and I have grown to love the concerto. The first two movements are delicate and understated with a sad dreamlike quality. Melancholy is an overused term to describe music but this is what it is. The third movement is more traditional in concept. That the score sat forgotten in a draw for fifty years I cannot comprehend. I am full of admiration for the soloist Lydia Mordkovitch, a heavy hand would destroy this work but she does not fall into that trap. With her it is all about the music and respect for the composer. She was well taught by David Oistrakh.
Interesting Lol. Yes, I was at the Dorothy Howell Prom and greatly enjoyed every work, especially Weinberg's 3rd Symphony but it was great to hear Howell's 'Lamia' live. Glad you enjoyed the Alwyn VC. I think that it was rejected by the likes of Rubbra on the BBC listening panel which, much as I admire Rubbra's own music, really annoys me as I think that the Alwyn is one of the great British violin concertos.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on September 12, 2019, 07:51:12 AM
Picked up a Lyrita twofer with Symphonies 1-4 and a couple of other shorter works by Peter Racine Fricker. I'm all for obscure 20th-century British symphonies, and this label is a goldmine for them.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on October 03, 2019, 09:14:20 AM
Further acquisitions which should hopefully be here tomorrow: Fricker's Symphony No. 5 and his oratorio The Vision of Judgment, and the 4-disc British Piano Concertos set.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 03, 2019, 10:41:26 PM
Further acquisitions which should hopefully be here tomorrow: Fricker's Symphony No. 5 and his oratorio The Vision of Judgment, and the 4-disc British Piano Concertos set.
The Vision of Judgment is marvellous and very moving at the end - his masterpiece I think, although I life the first two symphonies in particular.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on October 07, 2019, 08:40:09 AM
Working my way through the British Piano Concertos box. Goodness me, there are some stunning works here! I'm listening right now to Alan Rawsthorne's Piano Concerto No. 1. The central Chaconne is extraordinary! My other favourites so far are John Foulds' Dynamic Triptych and Malcolm Williamson's PC3. I thought he was Australian, but it's in this box so it's fair game.

I also really enjoyed the Stanford PC2. I've had his PC1 for a good number of years now, but I've rarely listened to it for some reason. I should fix that now that I've got the Second.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 07, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Working my way through the British Piano Concertos box. Goodness me, there are some stunning works here! I'm listening right now to Alan Rawsthorne's Piano Concerto No. 1. The central Chaconne is extraordinary! My other favourites so far are John Foulds' Dynamic Triptych and Malcolm Williamson's PC3. I thought he was Australian, but it's in this box so it's fair game.

I also really enjoyed the Stanford PC2. I've had his PC1 for a good number of years now, but I've rarely listened to it for some reason. I should fix that now that I've got the Second.
Williamson was Australian but lived in England for many years and became a (not very successful) 'Master of the Queen's Musik'. Personally I rate Williamson very highly. I think that Rawsthorne's Second Piano Concerto is even greater than No.1. The Foulds is a marvellous work. I like VW's craggy piano concerto as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 08, 2019, 06:05:08 AM
Williamson was Australian but lived in England for many years and became a (not very successful) 'Master of the Queen's Musick'. Personally I rate Williamson very highly. I think that Rawsthorne's Second Piano Concerto is even greater than No.1. The Foulds is a marvellous work. I like VW's craggy piano concerto as well.

I think the problem for Williamson as Master of the Queen's Musik was two-fold.  First his musical style temperament was not really suited to the role and its musical demands (exactly the same issue Bax had) and he was following on someone - Arthur Bliss - who could turn out a good fanfare or ceremonial welcome ode in his sleep.  Secondly, by the time in his career/life he got the role he was fighting other non-musical demons that meant writing to order/a specific date of performance was literally beyond him.

Back in 1977 he was commissioned by the Liverpool Education Authority to produce the music for an extended tableaux stretching the length of Hope Street in Liverpool (which happens to link the Anglican and Catholic Cathedrals) for a visit by the Queen for her Jubilee.  Sadly he couldn't complete the music in time (it was called The Valley and the Hill) and had to be finished by one of the senior music staff in Liverpool - a great teacher and conductor of young musicians in Liverpool at the time called Michael Bush.  Back then I was part of the Liverpool Schools Symphony Orchestra that played it.......
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 08, 2019, 08:27:52 AM
I think the problem for Williamson as Master of the Queen's Musik was two-fold.  First his musical style temperament was not really suited to the role and its musical demands (exactly the same issue Bax had) and he was following on someone - Arthur Bliss - who could turn out a good fanfare or ceremonial welcome ode in his sleep.  Secondly, by the time in his career/life he got the role he was fighting other non-musical demons that meant writing to order/a specific date of performance was literally beyond him.

Back in 1977 he was commissioned by the Liverpool Education Authority to produce the music for an extended tableaux stretching the length of Hope Street in Liverpool (which happens to link the Anglican and Catholic Cathedrals) for a visit by the Queen for her Jubilee.  Sadly he couldn't complete the music in time (it was called The Valley and the Hill) and had to be finished by one of the senior music staff in Liverpool - a great teacher and conductor of young musicians in Liverpool at the time called Michael Bush.  Back then I was part of the Liverpool Schools Symphony Orchestra that played it.......

Interesting. I recall attending what was supposed to be a premiere of one of his symphonies (possibly No.4) and it was performed incomplete as Williamson hadn't finished it. I may have got that wrong but that is my memory. There is an interesting biography 'A Mischievous Muse' about Williamson. There was a whole saga about his unfinished (or hardly started) score to the original (and much better) film of 'Watership Down'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 09, 2019, 06:01:21 AM

I'd add Patrick Hadley (1899-1973). I consider 'The Trees so High', a symphony with vocal last movement, to be an absolute masterpiece, very poignant and moving. There is an intimacy about it which is quite different, for example, from Vaughan Williams's music. The Chandos twofer with Sainton is one of my favourite CDs.


Thank you Jeffrey for mentioning " The Trees so High". Had a first listen to this earlier today and this a gorgeous work. Definitely one for a future purchase.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on October 09, 2019, 06:31:14 AM
Thank you Jeffrey for mentioning " The Trees so High". Had a first listen to this earlier today and this a gorgeous work. Definitely one for a future purchase.

You will not regret. Also listen out for the Sainton piece "The Island" which is special and more special each time I listen to it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on October 09, 2019, 06:46:08 AM
I'm listening once again to the extraordinary Fifth Symphony by Robert Simpson. The symphony concludes with a 16-minute finale, which is a sizable chunk of the whole work. Usually when you have these lengthy finales, it's usually a slow movement, often a Passacaglia or some other variation form. But the finale of Simpson 5 is 16 minutes of unrelenting, driving energy! It's a thrill ride from start to finish.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 09, 2019, 06:55:31 AM
I'll join Marvin's shaming line-up ( :-[ )  as i only have 3 CDs off the composers' list that Mark made :

- Byrd : Masses for 4/5 voices (listening to those now thanks to this thread) 
- Holst : Planets
- Tallis : Spem in Alium

I haven't heard anything of the others yet except Elgar's Enigma variations but that wasn't to my taste, so i'll check this thread out regularly for recs  :)

Well it took 11 years for me to eventually tackle British composers but 2019 sure did bring its lot of changes and surprises :

New and definite contenders for my overall top 10

Lloyd (all symphonies except 3 & 10)
Arnold (his own 4th, Penny 9th, Dances, Overtures)
Alwyn (conducting his own symphonies, Lyra Angelica )


Great discoveries and additions to my collection

Bantock (Hebridean, Celtic)
Bliss (Colour symphony, Adam Zero particularly)
Brian (6 & 16)
Bridge (The Sea)
Dowland (Lute works - an old favorite for a few years)
Elgar (his symphonies - also enjoyed the Pomp etc...away from the Proms' stigma  :blank: )
Foulds (Dutton vol.1 - will get the rest eventually)
Gipps (2 & 4)
Holst (Planets)
Moeran (sinfonietta, symphony in G)
Rubbra (5 & 6, rest on the way, lots of promise)
Vaughan Williams (Love the London symphony, still chipping away at his edition)
Walton (symphonies 1 & 2)

In the collection but struggling with

Bax
Britten
Delius
Finzi
Purcell

Sampled on youtube, showing some potential for future additions  ;D

Coleridge Taylor
Coates
Cooke
Dyson
Ireland
Joubert
Hadley
Rootham
Stanford
Cyril Scott
Grace Williams
Wordsworth

Sampled on youtube but unsure  0:)

Arnell
Bate
Bush
Fricker
Holst (the rest)
Searle
Simpson
Tippett

Yet to investigate

Berkeley
Birtwistle
Bowen
Butterworth
Cowen
Goossens
Hoddinott
Holbrooke
Daniel Jones
Parry
Rawsthorne

Thanks again to all the contributors present and past throughout the threads offering a goldmine of information and suggestions over the years. It is a great journey to be on.  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 09, 2019, 07:12:08 AM
You will not regret. Also listen out for the Sainton piece "The Island" which is special and more special each time I listen to it.

Thank Irons, I have found it on YT, I'll listen to it.

The Hadley I listened to this morning was the Lyrita version (coupled with some Finzi).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on October 09, 2019, 07:44:07 AM
Simpson is one composer I wouldn’t assess based on samples. His music is very listenable (nothing grates or offends the ear) but not especially beguiling. His symphonies and chamber music are quite complex constructions, developing through elaborate patterns. IOW it’s only at the end that you can appreciate it - or not  ;D.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on October 09, 2019, 11:50:28 PM
I like Papy Oli's list as in many ways it mirrors my own tastes. The "struggle" list I agree with fully but all five are worth the effort. I do not know Brian's music at all, and never heard of Gipps, but all the rest are worth anyone's time. I put my hand up for Butterwoth and Hadley not only for their music but for the WW1 back-story too.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 10, 2019, 12:00:17 AM
Thank you Jeffrey for mentioning " The Trees so High". Had a first listen to this earlier today and this a gorgeous work. Definitely one for a future purchase.
Well, I'm delighted that you enjoyed this work Olivier. As Lol (Irons) suggested you would like the Chandos double CD set featuring 'The Trees so High' with works by Sainton. His 'Nadir' is a favourite of mine - a short, tragic and defiant work which Sainton work having witnessed the death of a child during a wartime bombing raid on Bristol. I enjoyed looking through your list of British composer discoveries and we share similar tastes. Another great IMO wartime work is Arnell's epic Symphony 3 (his mother was killed in the Blitz). You might also like Hubert Clifford's 'Symphony 1940'. He was an Australian but was in England during World War Two.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: springrite on October 10, 2019, 12:35:45 AM


Sampled on youtube but unsure  0:)

Simpson

Yet to investigate

Butterworth

1: I hope you eventually give Simpson another shot. It can be very rewarding in the end.
2: Time to investigate Butterworth then! And I mean, both of them! Both Butters are Worth it!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 15, 2019, 03:43:22 AM
Simpson is one composer I wouldn’t assess based on samples. His music is very listenable (nothing grates or offends the ear) but not especially beguiling. His symphonies and chamber music are quite complex constructions, developing through elaborate patterns. IOW it’s only at the end that you can appreciate it - or not  ;D.

1: I hope you eventually give Simpson another shot. It can be very rewarding in the end.
2: Time to investigate Butterworth then! And I mean, both of them! Both Butters are Worth it!

André, Paul,

Not giving upon that section of the list by any means. I'll keep revisiting. There was only one movement of Simpson's 9th on YT i could find but it had some intriguing moments. Looking at my YT history, I listened to chunks of 3rd, 5th and 8th as well but with less success. I'll have a look at his chamber music as well as an entry point, thank you.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 16, 2019, 12:21:37 PM
André, Paul,

Not giving upon that section of the list by any means. I'll keep revisiting. There was only one movement of Simpson's 9th on YT i could find but it had some intriguing moments. Looking at my YT history, I listened to chunks of 3rd, 5th and 8th as well but with less success. I'll have a look at his chamber music as well as an entry point, thank you.

I like his Symphony No.1 (his doctoral thesis I think) best.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 30, 2019, 03:02:16 AM
Does anybody have this book please ? Is it any good ?

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2019, 03:23:13 AM
Does anybody have this book please ? Is it any good ?



Unfortunately not Olivier. Looks interesting.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 30, 2019, 03:35:28 AM
No worries Jeffrey, thank you.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2019, 03:39:28 AM
No worries Jeffrey, thank you.

Some reviews here Olivier:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Music-British-Isles-Afterwards/dp/2970065479/ref=pd_sim_14_1/258-4324049-3560864?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=2970065479&pd_rd_r=5016426f-79d1-4bc3-a88e-5f02a9844bce&pd_rd_w=qS0mT&pd_rd_wg=LQMBI&pf_rd_p=32ad4a08-4896-4172-a2ea-821c9be00310&pf_rd_r=N8E8TTF7Q3ZGHYSGDJ32&psc=1&refRID=N8E8TTF7Q3ZGHYSGDJ32
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on October 30, 2019, 03:58:24 AM
Does anybody have this book please ? Is it any good ?



No idea about the content but Vols 1 & 2 are available fro Amazon.co.uk at a reduced price - Vol 2 is £17.02 (originally £36.00), even cheaper if you want the Kindle edition.  Vol 1 has excellent reviews on Amazon so I might buy the Kindle edition - it looks to be the sort of thing I have been looking for for a while.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 02, 2019, 01:05:17 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_300/095115128329.jpg?1401982484)

IMHO the best C19 British symphonies.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roy Bland on November 03, 2019, 06:56:29 PM
Robin Milford/Stanford Concerto
http://melodiawomenschoir.org/
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 03, 2019, 11:15:38 PM
Robin Milford/Stanford Concerto
http://melodiawomenschoir.org/

Looks interesting. I've liked everything I've heard from Milford, most recently 'The Darkling Thrush' inspired by one of my favourite poems by Thomas Hardy:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44325/the-darkling-thrush

(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Klaatu on November 04, 2019, 06:42:14 AM
Hardy's "The Darkling Thrush" always comes to my mind towards the end of Mahler's 10th, when after the last of those nihilistic, muffled drum-strokes, the beautiful flute solo takes flight......as if to hint at "some glorious hope". Gets me every time.

I must listen to Milford's interpretation of the poem.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 04, 2019, 10:30:33 AM
Hardy's "The Darkling Thrush" always comes to my mind towards the end of Mahler's 10th, when after the last of those nihilistic, muffled drum-strokes, the beautiful flute solo takes flight......as if to hint at "some glorious hope". Gets me every time.

I must listen to Milford's interpretation of the poem.

And I must listen to Mahler's 10th with what you have said in mind.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Oates on November 15, 2019, 09:46:13 AM
Much music is inspired by or named in tribute to specific geographic or topographic locations. This has been a particular characteristic of British classical music in the 20th Century. For no particular reason other than that I was intrigued to see how much music by British (and some Commonwealth) composers utilised an actual place name in its title, I put together a list. (It has turned out longer than I expected, so apologies!) 

This list reflects essentially orchestral music (or in some cases a chamber, brass or choral work) which references a specific geographic or topographic location in the British Isles and Ireland in its title. I’m aware that there have been many more songs and solo piano works that have been titled in this way but for the sake of keeping the list manageable these are omitted (unless there is an orchestral version as well). I am also aware of the many orchestral / chamber pieces that have been inspired or linked with geographic or topographic locations in the British Isles but which are not reflected in the title, and also omitted from this list.) As will be seen, the line between ‘serious’ composition and ‘light’ music is here somewhat blurred.

I'm sure that others can think of items I've missed.
 
Alan Abbott - London Fragments
Frederick Aldington - Bracebridge Hall
William Alwyn - Suite Of Scottish Dances, The Innumerable Dance (An English Overture), Prelude – Blackdown, A Manchester Suite
Charles Ancliffe - Irish Whispers
Alistair Anderson - On Cheviot Hills
John Ansell - Plymouth Hoe, Innisfail, Three Irish Pictures, Three Irish Dances
Violet Archer - Britannia - A Joyful Overture
Richard Arnell - Dagenham Symphony
Malcolm Arnold - The Padstow Lifeboat, A Manx Suite, English Dances, Irish Dances, Welsh Dances, Scottish Dances, Cornish Dances, A Sussex Overture, Peterloo Overture, Fairfield Overture, Attleborough, Kingston Fanfare, Richmond Fanfare
Frank Aston - Bedale Hunt
Edgar Bainton - English Idyll
Christopher Ball - Scarborough Fair, Brigg Fair, Bonnie Dundee, In The Yorkshire Dales, From The Hebrides, Irish Suite
Eric Ball - A Kensington Concerto, Fowey River Suite, St. Michael's Mount, Devon Fantasy, Scottish Festival Overture, Rosslyn, Welsh Festival, Cornish Festival
Don Banks - Five North Country folksongs
Granville Bantock - A Hebridian Symphony, A Scottish Rhapsody, Scenes from the Scottish Highlands, English Scenes, Old English Suite, Caristiona - A Hebridean Seascape
Bernard Barrell - Suffolk Celebration Overture
Frank Baron - Bishop’s Rock
Patrick Barrow – Loxwood Suite
Hubert Bath - Cornish Rhapsody, Atlantic Charter, Devonia
Arnold Bax - Tintagel, Morning Song (Maytime in Sussex), London Pageant
David Bedford - Places in Devon
John Bell – Sunny Southport
Richard Rodney Bennett - Farnham Festival Overture, Chelsea Reach,
David Bertie - Suffolk Punch
Maurice Besly – Chelsea China
Frederick Beyer – Royal Windsor, Farnham Town
Ronald Binge - Scottish Rhapsody, Thames Rhapsody, Old London
William Blezard - Battersea Park Suite
Arthur Bliss – Kenilworth, Farnaby Tower Hill, Edinburgh Overture, Fanfare Prelude for Orchestra: Macclesfield, Lancaster Prelude,  Miracle in the Gorbals
Carey Blyton - Suite: Cinque Port
Rutland Boughton - Aylesbury Games, The Chilterns
York Bowen – Somerset Suite
Fredrick Boyce - Farnham Town, Royal Windsor
Brian Boydell - Shielmartin Suite (Shulmartin Suite?)
Ina Boyle - Glencree Symphony No. 1
Rory Boyle - Suite of English Folk Songs
Sam Braithwaite - Night By Dalegarth Bridge
Havergal Brian - English Suites
Leslie Bridgewater - Bromsgrove Fair
Benjamin Britten – Plymouth Town
Brian Brockless - English Elegy
Alan Bullard - Galloway Sketches, Colnford Suite, Colchester Suite
Antony Burgess – A Manchester Overture, Glasgow Overture
Rex Burrows - Hampton Court
Alan Bush - Nottingham Symphony, English Suite, Liverpool Overture, Pavane for the Castleton Queen
Geoffrey Bush – Guildford Symphony
Arthur Butterworth - A Moorland Symphony, A Dales Suite (Embsay), An Exmoor Suite, The Quiet Tarn (Malham), Mancunian Way, Kendal Clock, Fantasy on the Kendal Chimes, Solent Forts, Reverie (Farewell Manchester) Mancunians, Sligo Fair
David Butterworth - Lochinvar, Seven Hills March, Dances for Dalkeith, Kettlebury Hill, Ewell Court Suite
George Butterworth – Two English Idylls, A Shropshire Lad
Jack Byfield - A Cornish Pastiche
John Cameron - Cumbria
Adam Carse - Winton Suite, Three English Pictures
Doreen Carwithen – East Anglian Holiday, A Suffolk Suite, Bishop Rock
Frank Chacksfield - Innishannon Serenade
Newell Chase - Midnight in Mayfair
Robert Chignall - Henley Serenade
Montague Cleeve - Whitgift Suite
Hubert Clifford - A Kentish Suite, Shanagolden, Cowes Suite, Greenwich Pageant Of The River
Carroll Coates - London By Night   
Eric Coates - London Suite, Men Of Trent March, London Again Suite, London Calling March,  London Everyday Suite, London Bridge March, South Wales and West, From Meadow to Mayfair Suite, Holborn March, On the Mall
Gerald Cockshott – Maddermarket Suuite
Cecil Coles - Suite from the Scottish Highlands
Anthony Collins – Eire Suite, Romney Marsh
Harold Collins - Bishop’s Rock
Walter Collins - Four Cornish Dances, Cumberland Green
Francis M Collinson - Hampshire
William Collisson - Irish Suite
Arnold Cooke – York Suite, Repton Fantasia
Grenville Cooke – High Marley Rest
Gaze Cooper - Newton, Lincs
Peter Cork - Alkham Valley, A Man Of Kent, Cockney Dance in Stepney, Romney Marsh, Walking Out In Wapping, Surrey Concerto, London in the Thirties
Ronald Corp - Guernsey Postcards
David Cox – London Calling
William Creser - Old English Suite
Peter Crossley-Holland – Albion Suite
Adrian Cruft – Stratford Music, Stilestone Suite
David Curry - Irish Pastorale
Matthew Curtis - Irish Lullaby, Striding Edge
Frederic Curzon - In Sherwood Suite
Gordon Dale - Brommy Hill Suite, A Midland Concerto, A Tewkesbury Suite
Horace Dann- Worcester Beacon
Marie Dare - Three Highland Sketches, Five Scottish Airs
Cedric Thorpe Davie – The Royal Mile
John Davies - Summer's Eve at Cookham Lock, The Londonderry Air
Henry Walford Davies - Big Ben Looks On
Frederick Delius – Brigg Fair, North Country Sketches
Harry Dexter - Scottish Street Dances,
Robert Docker - London Rhapsody
Peter Dodd - Irish Idyll
Marcus Dods – Highland Fancy
Andrew Downes - In the Cotswolds
Kenneth Downie – St. Austell Suite, Bridgwater Intrada, Princethorpe Variations
David Dubery - Pinch Belly Park
Ronald Duncan - Three Scottish Sketches, Highland Rhapsody
Trevor Duncan - St Boniface Down
Thomas Dunhill - The Chiddingfold Suite, Suite: In Rural England
Brian Easdale – Kew Gardens
Stuart Edwards - English Country Scenes
Edward Elgar – A Severn Suite, Cockaigne (In London Town)
David Ellis – Vale Royal Suite
Vivian Ellis - Muse In Mayfair
Albert Elms – Wembley Way
Montague Ewing - Over the Scottish Hills, An Irish Picnic
David Fanshawe - Fantasy On Dover Castle
Alexander Faris - Sketches of Regency England
Alan Farnie - A Royal Mile Suite, Fauldhouse Miners March
Robert Farnon - Goodwood Galop, Westminster Waltz, The Lincolnshire Poacher
W Merrick Farrar - Stranger in London
Eric Fenby – Rossini On Ilkla Moor – Overture
Paul Fenoulhet - Suffolk Sketches
Robin Field - Suite: Cumbria, Island Sketches: The Sound of Mull
Gerald Finzi – A Severn Rhapsody
Roger Fiske - Midsummer Hill
Christopher Le Fleming - London River, Sutton Valence, Pilford Suite
John Foulds – April-England
John Fox - A Surrey Rhapsody, Scarborough Fair
Norman Fulton – Scottish Suite
Nicholas Gatty - Haslemere Suite
Balfour Gardiner – A Berkshire Idyll
John Gardner – A Scots Overture, Irish Suite
Henry Ernest Geehl - Thames Valley, On the Cornish Coast
Edward German - Welsh Rhapsody, Norwich Symphony
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs - Westmorland Symphony, Essex Suite, The Yorkshire Dales,
Chris Gibbs - Moon Over Downham, Teatime In Chipping, In The Western Dales (originally A Ludlow Suite - Dentdale Air, Barbondale Air, Ribblesdale Air), Forest Of Bowland Suite, Lakeland Summer, Cumbrian Overture, Flookborough Blues
Ruth Gipps – Kensington Garden Suite, Cringlemire Garden, Wealden Suite
Gareth Glyn – Anglesey Sketches, A Snowdon Overture, Snowdonia
Frank Gomez - Climbing the Abbey Steps at Whitby
Arthur Goodchild - Four Yorkshire Miniatures
Ron Goodwin - City Of Lincoln March, London Serenade
David Gow - Wessex Heights Symphony
Ian Gowly - Song of the Clyde
Percy Grainger - A Lincolnshire Posy, Irish Tune From County Derry, Ye Banks and Braes O' Bonnie Doon, English Dance
Emile Grimshaw - Lancashire Clogs
Malcolm Grimston – Nocturne: Putney and the River
Inglis Gundry - The Logan Rock
Christopher Gunning – Yorkshire Glory, On Hungerford Bridge
Ivor Gurney - A Gloucestershire Rhapsody
Patrick Hadley – Kinder Scout
Alfred Hale – Cornish Suite
Iain Hamilton - Bartholomew Fair Overture, London: Kaleidoscope, Scottish Dances
David Harries – Cornish Overture
Pamela Harrison - An Evocation of the Weald
Julius Harrison - Worcestershire Suite, Bredon Hill, Widdicombe Fair, Cornish Holiday Sketches, Severn County
Hamilton Harty - Londonderry Air, In Ireland, An Irish Symphony, Variations on a Dublin Air, Irish Fantasy
Colin Hand - South Bank Sketches, Fenland Suite
Ronald Hanmer - Heritage of England
Fred Hartley - The Ball at Aberfeldy, Hampden Road March, The Dublin Express, The Fair Maid of Moray,  Highland Lullaby
Patrick Hawes - Fair Albion, Highgrove Suite, How Hill
Anthony Hedges – Fiddler’s Green, A Cleveland Overture, West Oxford Walks, Overture – Heigham Sound, Scenes from the Humber, Kingston Sketches, An Ayrshire Serenade
George William Hespe – Kinder Scout,  A Welsh Fantasy
Nigel Hess - East Coast Pictures
Charles Hoby - A Scottish Rhapsody, Lure of the Highlands
Alun Hoddinott - Two Welsh Nursery Tunes, Welsh Dances
Joseph Holbrooke - Wild Wales, Suite on Folksongs of Great Britain, Cambrian Ballades
Theodore Holland - Ellingham Marshes
John Holliday - May Day at Helston, Zennor, Skipton Rig
Henry Holmes - Cumberland Symphony
Gustav Holst – A Cotswolds Symphony, A Somerset Rhapsody, St Paul's Suite, Hammersmith, Egdon Heath, A Hampshire Suite
H. Hope – South Down March
Peter Hope - Ring Of Kerry, Irish Legend
James Howe - Pentland Hills
Herbert Howells – Paradise Rondel, Winchester Service, Coventry Antiphon
Margaret Hubicki - Scottish and Irish Airs, Sussex Pictures
Llifon Hughes-Jones - Langdon Overture
Ian Hurst – Windermere Idyll, The Bells of Somerset, Brighton Sea-Step (South Pier Sea-Step).
John Ireland – Mai-Dun, A Downland Suite, A London Overture, Sarnia
Christopher Irvin – Arden Airs, Tales from Hebden Wood
Herbert Ivey - Glimpses of London
Gordon Jacob – Overture - Clogher Head, Alexandra Palace, Bonnie Dundee, Denbigh Suite, Essex Overture, Essex Suite, Hertford Suite, Lincolnshire Poacher, New Forest Suite, Northumbrian Overture, Redbridge Variations, Fantasia on Scottish Tunes, Swansea Town, Tattenham Corner, York Symphony, English Landscape, Havant Suite
John Jefferys - Bickleigh Idyll
Cyril Jenkins - Welsh Fantasia,
David Jennings – The Lincoln Imp
Eleanor Johnson - A Legend of Erin
Laurie Johnson - Castles of Britain
Stewart Johnson - A Northumbrian Suite
Maurice Johnston - Tarn Hows: A Cumbrian Rhapsody, Pennine Way, County Palatine, Watling Street,
Douglas Jones - Ayton Airs
Edward Jones - The Siege of York
Archibald Joyce - Brighton Hike
Thomas Keighley - A Northern Rhapsody
Bryan Kelly – Four Realms Suite, Globe Theatre Suite, Edinburgh Dances, Oxford Scherzo, Irish Dances
Majory Kennedy-Fraser - Hebridean Suite
Albert William Ketèlbey - Mayfair Cinderella   
Reginald King - In the Chilterns
Ian Laidler - Mendip Suite,
D. Lancaster - Bridge on the River Wharfe
Philip Lane – Prestbury Park, Cotswold Dances, London Salute, The Bluebell Line
Gordon Langford – Spirit of London, Hebridean Hoedown, West Country Fantasy, North Country Fantasy
Otto Langley - The Emerald Isle, From the Highlands and Sounds for England
John F. Larchet -  Irish Airs
Ernest Markham Lee - Moorland & Torland, West Country Suite, Round the North Sea, Rivers of Devon Suite
Paul Lewis - Norfolk Suite, Festival of London March, An English Overture, Sussex Symphony Overture, Norfolk Idyll
Malcolm Lipkin - Clifford's Tower
George Lloyd - The Forest of Arden, Royal Parks, English Heritage
Hermann Frederic Löhr - West Countree, West Country Dances
John Longmire - Green Park
Jon Lord – A Durham Concerto
Raymond Loughborough - Jevington Suite
David Lyon - Farnham Suite, A Wiltshire Elegy
Alexander Mackenzie - Pibroch Suite, Scottish Rhapsodies, Britannia, London Day By Day
Desmond Macmahon - A Northumbrian Suite
Hamish McCunn - The Dowie Dens o’ Yarrow, Highland Memories
Bill McGillivray - Streets of London
Bill McGuffie - Highland Hue, Scottish Ayr
Elizabeth Maconchy - An Essex Overture, Overture Proud Thames
John Blackwood McEwen - A Solway Symphony, Three Border Ballads (Grey Galloway), Highland Dances, Scottish Rhapsody
George McIlwham - For Highland Gathering
Gary McNichol - Brodsworth Suite
John Manduell - Sunderland Point Overture
Hastings Mann – Westward Ho!
Albert Marlind – Piccadilly Prelude
David Matthews – Norfolk March
Muir Mathieson - From the Grampians
Peter Maxwell-Davies – An Orkney Wedding with Sunrise, A Voyage to Fair Isle, Strathclyde Concertos
Billy Mayerl – Sennen Cove
Leslie Meurant - From Eamont To Eden
Bruce Montgomery – Scottish Aubade, Scottish Lullaby
William Mooney - Cromer Suite, Six Scottish Dances, Perthshire Echoes Suite
Reginald Morgan - Cotswold Melody
Angela Morley - Rotten Row
William Moyle - Cornish Floral Dance, Restormel, Cornish Rock, Cornish Cavalier
Herbert Murrill - Caprice on Two Norfolk Folk Tunes
Malcolm Nabarro - Lincoln Green: A Fantasia on Lincolnshire Folk Songs
Paul Neville - Shrewsbury Fair
Roy Newsome - Tredegar Castle, Westward Suite, Two London Sketches
David J. Newstone - The Humber Bridge Suite
Harold Noble - Tintern Abbey
Charles O’Brien – Scottish Scenes, Ellangowan
Walton O'Donnell - The Irish Maiden, Two Irish Tone Sketches
Norman O'Neill - Variations on an Irish Air
Buxton Orr – Caledonian Suite
Charles Wilfred Orr - A Cotswold Hill Tune
Charles Parry – English Suite
Ian Parrott – Westerham, Fanfare Overture for a Somerset Festival, The Coast of Ceredigion
Adam Pounds - Norfolk Seascape, A Northern Picture
Montague Phillips - A Surrey Suite, Hampton Court
Albert Peace - Fantasia on Scottish Melodies
Thomas Pitfield – Overture On North-Country Tunes
Kenneth Platts - Manx Dances, Sussex Overture
T.J. Powell - Snowdon Fantasy, Carnarvon Castle, Castell Coch, Cardiff Castle, Castell Caerffili, Salute to Wales
Richard Maldwyn Price - Welsh Fantasy, Cambrian Suite, An English Overture, Gwalia Suite
Roger Quilter - Three English Dances
Felton Rapley - Down the Solent, A Highland Vision, An Irish Legend
Harold Rawlinson – In A Kentish Garden
Alan Rawsthorne – Overture for Farnham
Austen Rayner – Eboracum
Reginald Redman - Marston Court, West Country Suite, Rhapsody on Somerset Folk Songs
Alfred Reynolds – The Sirens Of Southend
Clive Richardson – London Fantasia
Cyril Rootham - In The Lake Country
David Rose - Piccadilly   
Alec Rowley - Down Channel: Nautical Overture, From a Devon Headland
Edmund Rubbra - Plymouth
Philip Sainton – Stonehenge
Max Saunders - A Cotswold Pastoral
Cyril Scott – Cornish Boat Song, Irish Serenade
Derek Scott – Salisbury Plain
George Scott-Wood – London Caprice
Humphrey Searle - Highland Reel
Charles Shadwell – Lulworth Cove, Morning at Bibury
Evelyn Sharpe – Devon Suite, Hampshire Suite, Essex Suite
Robert Sherlaw-Johnson - Northumbrian Symphony
Michael Short – Caledonia, Kentish Fire, Stonehenge
Ivor Slaney - Land’s End to John O’Groats
Gavin Smith – North-East Fantasy
Peter Smith - Willowbrook Suite
Harry Somers - North Country
Arthur Somervell - Piano Concerto (Highland)
Susan Spain-Dunk - Kentish Downs, Weald of Kent, Andred's Weald, Stonehenge, Kentonia
Philip Sparke - A Tameside Overture, A London Overture, A Malvern Suite
Philip Spratley - A Helpson Fantasia
Anthony Spurgin - West Country Special
Ray Steadman-Allen - On Ratcliff Highway
Jack Strachey - Shaftesbury Avenue, Eros In Piccadilly
Allan Street - Doon Valley, Nottingham Town
Graeme Stuart - Thames Castles
L. Sturdy - Old Kensington
Herbert Sumsion – Lerryn, In the Cotswolds
Giles Swayne - County Down
Frank Tapp - Beachy Head Overture, Overture Metropolis, English Landmarks Suite
Arthur Taylor – Sandringham Waltz
Donald Thorne - Lights of London
Niso Ticciati - An Epping Forest Suite
Reginald Tilsley - Welsh Fantasy, Leicester Square Lament
George Tootell– Manx Scenes
Sidney Torch - London Transport Suite
Joan Trimble - Buttermilk Point, The Baird of Lisgoole, The Humours of Carick
Charles Villiars Stanford – Irish Rhapsodies
Ernest Tomlinson - Cumberland Square, Chadkirk Idyll, Kielder Water, An English Overture, Suite of English Folk-Dances, Silverthorn Suite, English Pageant, The Merseyside Overture, The Fantasia on North Country Folk Tunes, Overture on Old English Tunes
Phylis Tate – London Fields
Matthew Taylor – The Needles
Mansel Thomas - Six Welsh Dances
Peter Thompson – Hampshire Summers
Michael Tippett – Shires Suite
George Tootell - Manx Scenes
Robert Walker -  At Bignor Hill
Alfred Wall - Thanet
Gareth Walters - A Gwent Suite, Holmer Green
William Walton - Portsmouth Point
Raymond Warren – Wexford Bells – Suite On Old Irish Tunes
Cyril Watters – Piccadilly Spree, A Cotswold Lullaby
Eric Wetherell – Bristol Quay Suite
Arthur Wood - Dales Dances Suite, My Native Heath
Frederic H. Wood - Scenes in Kent, Scenes in Northumberland, Scenes on the Wye, Scenes on the Downs
Gareth Wood - Cardiff Bay, Culloden Moor
Haydn Wood – London Landmarks, British Rhapsody, A Manx Rhapsody, Mannin Veen, London Cameos Suite, A Manx Overture, Snapshots of London Suite
Sam B. Wood - The Yorkshire Ridings, West Riding March
Thomas Wood - Suffolk Punch, The Brew House at Bures
Francis Woods - Gressenhall Suite
Graham Whettham - Red Cliffs and the Sea
Felix White - Impressions of England
Percy Whitlock - Wessex Suite
Graham Whittam - An English Suite
Arthur Wilkinson – Three Rivers Fantasy, Cornish Caprice
Charles Williams - London Fair, Hills Of Brecon, Seaford Head, Highland Lament, Lizard Point, Kensington, The Bells of St. Clements    
Grace Williams - Fantasia on Welsh Nursery Tunes, Severn Bridge Variations, Castell Caernarfon
Ralph Vaughan Williams – In The Fen Country, A Norfolk Rhapsody x 3. A London Symphony, Charterhouse Suite, Burley Heath, Harnham Down, Fantasia On Sussex Folk Tunes, English Folk Song Suite, Oxford Elegy
Malcolm Williamson – The House of Windsor, Richmond Fanfare
Bill Worland – Leeds Castle, Scottish Power, Brighton Belle, Broadstairs Suite
Christopher Wright - Kyson Point Suite, Orfordness
Denis Wright – Cornish Holiday, Tintagel



Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: steve ridgway on November 15, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Crikey that is a long list :o. Now what you could do for fun is visit the places and listen to the matching pieces.

And Harrison Birtwistle - Grimethorpe Aria, Silbury Air....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 15, 2019, 11:08:37 AM
Amazing piece of work!  :)

I have 2 versions of Eric Coate’s Knightsbridge March, so surely it ought to be included. Unless it’s part of one of the suites ?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on November 15, 2019, 11:14:15 AM
great list, thank you ! more to explore  :blank: :laugh:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 15, 2019, 12:30:15 PM
Amazing piece of work!  :)

I have 2 versions of Eric Coate’s Knightsbridge March, so surely it ought to be included. Unless it’s part of one of the suites ?

Knightsbridge is the last movement of the "London Suite".  With Coates his "By the Sleepy Lagoon" is NOT some desert island as nearly all assume but the view from Selsey to Bognor Regis.....

Any references to "Farnham" are because of a Youth Music Festival there rather than any particularly geographical.  Should probably add Ketelbey's Cockney Suite ('Appy 'Ampstead) and his Bow Bells Foxtrot.  His "In a Monastery Garden was inspired by the Chilworth in Surrey. Then there's RVW's Solent / Harnham Down / Burley Heath.  Holst's companion piece to St. Paul's Suite - Brook Green

In the world of light music - Jack Strachey wrote Mayfair Parade / John Foulds wrote Keltic Suite / Keltic Lament / Keltic Overture, Edward German Merrie England.  Arthur Wood - as well as 3 Dale Dances, wrote 3 More Dale Dances & Moorland Fiddlers
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Oates on November 16, 2019, 01:19:51 AM
I don't know how I missed RVW's Solent, but Harnham Down and Burley Heath are on the list. I had wondered about including Foulds' various "Keltic" pieces but I couldn't decide whether Keltic meant a geographical location or a culture!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: krummholz on November 17, 2019, 06:01:47 PM
André, Paul,

Not giving upon that section of the list by any means. I'll keep revisiting. There was only one movement of Simpson's 9th on YT i could find but it had some intriguing moments. Looking at my YT history, I listened to chunks of 3rd, 5th and 8th as well but with less success. I'll have a look at his chamber music as well as an entry point, thank you.

Simpson's 9th has only one movement!  ;)

(One 45 minute long movement, broken into 3 or 4 spans that play without a break...)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2019, 07:09:23 AM
I don't know how I missed RVW's Solent, but Harnham Down and Burley Heath are on the list. I had wondered about including Foulds' various "Keltic" pieces but I couldn't decide whether Keltic meant a geographical location or a culture!
Hadley's 'Kinder Scout' was a nice new discovery.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on November 18, 2019, 07:09:54 AM
It's worth pointing out in that list, the Severn Bridge variations, credited solely to Grace Williams here, is actually a multi-composer work.

Theme & Var. 1: Malcolm Arnold
Var. 2: Alun Hoddinott
Var. 3: Nicholas Maw
Var. 4: Daniel Jones
Var. 5: Grace Williams
Var. 6: Michael Tippett
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on November 18, 2019, 08:35:07 AM

Mark-Anthony Turnage. Cross-posted from the WAYL2 thread:

Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/613IpFFUXKL._SX452_.jpg)

Three concertos and two short works for orchestra commissioned by major orchestras (Cleveland, RCOA, LPO, Chicago) and played by powerhouse soloists and conductors (listed on the disc cover) attest to Turnage’s status among contemporary composers. And yet his music is not met with universal acclaim. It fuses different styles, esp jazz, with classical. As a result he receives criticism from both ends of the spectrum. I can only vouch for what I hear, and I like his music a lot - most of the time. This disc is particularly appealing as a program, as it gives a rounded portrait of the composer’s extensive output. Anyone wanting to sample Turnage will find this an excellent starting point.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on November 20, 2019, 06:34:51 AM
An interesting half hour for those that can access it on BBC sounds :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000r30 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000r30)

The cowpat controversy  :D
The line-up of early Twentieth Century English composers includes great figures such as Holst, Vaughan Williams, Arnold Bax and Frederick Delius. Since the 1950's these composers have been dogged by a casual and unkind slur against their work, namely by referring to it as 'cowpat music'. Tom Service argues that, far from producing shallow and whimsical pastoral scores, the music produced by this English movement is among the most profound and communicative of the last century, rarely far from the influence of the two World Wars.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on November 20, 2019, 06:40:04 AM
Received this one today. The table of contents and the index look quite substantial. Even George Lloyd appears (albeit in a short paragraph about his operas).
One to start after Christmas as it is to fill one's stocking  0:)



Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on November 20, 2019, 09:02:33 AM
An interesting half hour for those that can access it on BBC sounds :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000r30 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000r30)

The cowpat controversy  :D
The line-up of early Twentieth Century English composers includes great figures such as Holst, Vaughan Williams, Arnold Bax and Frederick Delius. Since the 1950's these composers have been dogged by a casual and unkind slur against their work, namely by referring to it as 'cowpat music'. Tom Service argues that, far from producing shallow and whimsical pastoral scores, the music produced by this English movement is among the most profound and communicative of the last century, rarely far from the influence of the two World Wars.


Thanks Oliver, all fascinating and for me sheds new light on Bax. Coincidently I picked up a recording yesterday of Delius Double Concerto and Tom Service has wetted my appetite to listen to the work.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on November 20, 2019, 09:30:28 AM
Hello Lol,

Tom Service did a separate shorter podcast, where he tells of his childhood memories of being intrigued and fascinated by Bax symphonies. That convinced me to revisit Bax recently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03y3fhj (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03y3fhj)

for the few of his podcasts I listened to, I must say I have found his Listening Service enlightening (e.g. one about the point of practice, one about quiet audiences, and the cowpat one )
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on November 21, 2019, 09:04:07 AM
Hello Lol,

Tom Service did a separate shorter podcast, where he tells of his childhood memories of being intrigued and fascinated by Bax symphonies. That convinced me to revisit Bax recently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03y3fhj (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03y3fhj)

for the few of his podcasts I listened to, I must say I have found his Listening Service enlightening (e.g. one about the point of practice, one about quiet audiences, and the cowpat one )

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s4QAAOSwbXddaU8z/s-l640.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on November 21, 2019, 09:11:33 AM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s4QAAOSwbXddaU8z/s-l640.jpg)

One can see how that can be intriguing for a kid...he sure described accurately.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on November 21, 2019, 11:39:07 AM
Listening this evening to Odyssey by Nicholas Maw. Its length means I don't listen to it hugely often, but each listen reveals more detail about the work. In my head, I almost give this a similar sort of structure to Bruckner's 8th Symphony.

Introduction and Part I combine for a 20-minute "first movement"
Part II acts as a 12-minute Intermezzo (scherzo)
Part III is the huge-scale 30-minute slow movement
Part IV and the Epilogue combine for a "finale" of similar length and size to the slow movement.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on November 21, 2019, 02:12:12 PM
Listening this evening to Odyssey by Nicholas Maw. Its length means I don't listen to it hugely often, but each listen reveals more detail about the work. In my head, I almost give this a similar sort of structure to Bruckner's 8th Symphony.

Introduction and Part I combine for a 20-minute "first movement"
Part II acts as a 12-minute Intermezzo (scherzo)
Part III is the huge-scale 30-minute slow movement
Part IV and the Epilogue combine for a "finale" of similar length and size to the slow movement.

Do you know Maw’s Life Studies? I have the Marriner recording but not listened to it yet.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on November 22, 2019, 11:52:10 AM
No. The only other Maw work I have is his (wonderful) Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: jess on November 22, 2019, 01:51:42 PM
So I heard there a huge buzz at ENO lately because of a new production of Birtwistle's The Mask of Orpheus and I'm wondering did anyone go to see it? Has anyone seen that opera? Birtwistle fans have been pretty excited with the attention his music has been getting because of it!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on November 25, 2019, 02:56:21 PM
Someone recommend me a great piece of English chamber music! I have heard good things about Elgar's violin sonata, but if there's a better place to start, then someone let me know!

Great English piano music would also be interesting!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on November 26, 2019, 12:57:14 AM
Someone recommend me a great piece of English chamber music! I have heard good things about Elgar's violin sonata, but if there's a better place to start, then someone let me know!

Great English piano music would also be interesting!

Good question. Personally, for Elgar my first port of call would be the outstanding Piano Quintet and String Quartet before the Violin Sonata. Britten's 1st Quartet is of the highest order. I have never quite come to terms with the Frank Bridge quartets but know them to be highly rated. For RVW you can't go wrong with a marvellous Hyperion CD (CDA67313) by The Nash Ensemble of chamber works, I recommend this issue with enthusiasm.

There are treasurable recordings of English music for voice and piano but I cannot think of the top of my head a work for solo piano that qualifies of being "great".
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2019, 01:07:15 AM
Bax's Piano Quintet comes to mind - a marvellous discovery made through this forum. Also his Harp Quintet.
Also, the two string quartets, Violin Sonata (a late, craggy work) and Phantasy Quintet by Vaughan Williams.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on November 26, 2019, 03:05:30 AM
Ah, thanks. This must be the way to go then:

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: aukhawk on November 26, 2019, 07:13:49 AM
There are treasurable recordings of English music for voice and piano but I cannot think of the top of my head a work for solo piano that qualifies of being "great".

Stevenson Passacaglia on DSCH ??

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81HTWbGRtoL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+s13aSIgL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81kGuMBP7XL._SS500_.jpg)

Oh ... "great" - I thought you meant "long"  :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on November 26, 2019, 07:40:32 AM
Bax's Piano Quintet comes to mind - a marvellous discovery made through this forum. Also his Harp Quintet.
Also, the two string quartets, Violin Sonata (a late, craggy work) and Phantasy Quintet by Vaughan Williams.

Not sure if among the [umpty] times you mentioned RVW's 1954 Violin Sonata you added each time as your personal opinion that we might consider it a 'craggy' work. But almost.  :D
Very much appreciated !!  :) 8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2019, 08:23:34 AM
Ah, thanks. This must be the way to go then:


Absolutely! That's a great disc in all respects including the photo of VW looking like an old farmer. 'The Lake in the Mountains' (derived from some of VW's film music) is a lovely short piano work.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2019, 08:27:32 AM
Not sure if among the [umpty] times you mentioned RVW's 1954 Violin Sonata you added each time as your personal opinion that we might consider it a 'craggy' work. But almost.  :D
Very much appreciated !!  :) 8)

It's definitely a craggy work Johan (like the Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune - notwithstanding its odd similarity to the children's record 'Sparky's Magic Piano'). Anyway, as you know, I'm not the sort of person to repeat myself or start identical threads to ones I started several years earlier or buy the same recording twice (or more) just because it has a different cover image.
 8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on December 10, 2019, 08:12:31 AM
It's definitely a craggy work Johan (like the Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune - notwithstanding its odd similarity to the children's record 'Sparky's Magic Piano'). Anyway, as you know, I'm not the sort of person to repeat myself or start identical threads to ones I started several years earlier or buy the same recording twice (or more) just because it has a different cover image.
 8)
Very happy to learn that the two of us both aren't guilty of this flagrant misconduct, don't cheat our wives with cheap alternatives, or repeat anything, I repeat: never anything at all, not even threads.  8)

(Very happy to learn that the two of us both aren't guilty of this flagrant misconduct, don't cheat our wives with cheap alternatives, or repeat anything, I repeat: never anything at all, not even threads.  8) )
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on December 10, 2019, 10:59:15 AM
Very happy to learn that the two of us both aren't guilty of this flagrant misconduct, don't cheat or wives with cheap alternatives, or repeat anything, I repeat: never anything at all, not even threads.  8)
;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: jess on December 10, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
Does anyone have any news or reviews regarding ENO's The Mask of Orpheus or any other recent Birtwistle stuff?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on December 21, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
Copied from the WAYL2 thread:

Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Lvae1sV6L._SX522_.jpg)

Three collective sets of Theme and Variations by british composers.

First is a Coronation offering initiated by Britten. In 1953 he enlisted Imogen Holst, Arthur Oldham, Michael Tippett, Lennox Berkeley, himself, Humphrey Searle and William Walton in the enterprise. This is the order in which they participated. At the premiere the composers were listed alphabetically and the public was invited to a guess-the-composer game. Nobody got it all right.

In 1966 the Severn Bridge Variations were commissioned for the opening of the suspended bridge over the Severn estuary that links England and Wales (watchers of The Crown: Prince Charles’ Wales journey starts with the crossing of the Rubicon Severn bridge). Three English and three Welsh composers were asked for a variation on a welsh hymn tune.  The theme and first variation came from the pen of Malcolm Arnold (easily recognizable), followed by efforts from Alun Hoddinot, Nicolas Maw, Daniel Jones, Grace Williams and Michael Tippett. I found this the most stimulating and enjoyable of the three works.

The third set dates from 1987 and was commissioned by the Aldeburgh Festival for its 40th anniversary. The theme is based on the Sumer is acumen melody used by Britten in the finale of his own Simple Symphony. A short introduction precedes the statement of the theme, arranged by Oliver Knussen. The other variations are from Robert Saxton, Robin Holloway, Judith Weir, Alexander Goehr (beautiful), Colin Mathews and David Bedford.

 The disc is not very long (55 minutes) but presents a richly varied and quite substantial program. I enjoyed all 20 tracks. Recommended.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 12:35:20 PM
This Decca 2CD has dominated by listening over the past few weeks or so since I got it for $1.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FBTPjKpTL._SX355_.jpg)

A few of these composers are major discoveries for me, especially Delius—Marriner's detail-oriented conducting really brings out the best in these works. I didn't think I liked Delius, but I definitely enjoy what I'm hearing here. I still have another Decca 2CD with Mackerras conducting Delius to work through again with newfound appreciation for the composer. Beyond Mackerras, I intend to explore Barbirolli's Delius recordings.

Outside of Delius, my other favorite here is George Butterworth. I knew nothing of him aside from that he was a friend of Vaughan Williams' who died young in the war. But the three works presented here are damn fine, especially A Shropshire Lad. Excellent harmony and orchestration. My next question is this: where to from here? I see there is this Naxos disc that looks quite promising:



Is there any love for it here?

Also included on the Marriner set I mentioned is Peter Warlock, and both of his works presented here are nice, if slightly lightweight. But I would like to explore some more of his music, too. He seems to have been an interesting character.  I'm planning on tracking down this Naxos disc which includes his Serenade for Delius' Birthday:



... along with a bunch of other light-ish English string music. You know, I never expected to become so taken with this music. As an American, I guess this is a kind of escapism for me. But I am enjoying all that I'm hearing.

Who are some other great English composers to look out for? I have been told that both Finzi and Alwyn are worth a listen. For Finzi, I have a disc coming in the mail that includes piano concertos of Delius, RVW, and Finzi so that will likely be my introduction. As for Alwyn I'm planning on tracking down the Naxos recordings of the symphonies or the quartets. And then there is Holst, I intend to hear more of his music as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on January 26, 2020, 01:20:52 PM

Re: Delius. The Barbirolli discs are indeed an excellent choice. I suppose you refer to this EMI twofer:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71XC5%2BAcLzL._AC_SL500_.jpg)

There’s a 79 min Naxos disc of other works I highly recommend, containing as it does an excellent Florida Suite with some rare and neglected stuff. There is practically no duplication with the Barbirolli discs, which is good. The final scene from his opera Koanga concludes the disc beautifully. Florida Suite contains the original iteration of La Calinda, which was to be re-used by Delius in Koanga. Nice thematic connection between the first and last works on the disc then.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71T3O1ruDzL._SL500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 01:23:25 PM
For Butterworth, I recently received this one but it is still on the listening pile. Whatever I sampled however on YT of Butterworth impressed me too (songs and orchestral) and that seemed a good CD to cover this. There's also an alternative (dearer) on BIS.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 01:27:57 PM
Who are some other great English composers to look out for? I have been told that both Finzi and Alwyn are worth a listen. For Finzi, I have a disc coming in the mail that includes piano concertos of Delius, RVW, and Finzi so that will likely be my introduction. As for Alwyn I'm planning on tracking down the Naxos recordings of the symphonies or the quartets. And then there is Holst, I intend to hear more of his music as well.

for Finzi, this is just gorgeous:



For Alwyn: the symphonies conducted by Alwyn himself on Lyrita.

For Holst : one CD by Boult and  one by Imogen Holst, both on Lyrita as well.

Other composers to consider : Malcolm Arnold, Arnold Bax, Bantock, Moeran, Rubbra, Walton, George Lloyd.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 01:30:33 PM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 02:04:18 PM
I have forgotten to mention but I have been enjoying Malcolm Arnold some as well. I like symphonies 5, 6 and 9 quite a bit and also have 7 and 8 on disc. All Naxos. The Naxos Arnold cycle is damn fine. I never saw myself becoming an English music head, but here we are. Thanks for the recommendations, @André. I'll look out for that Delius Naxos disc and I've already had my eye on that Barbirolli.

@Oli, I have never heard of some of those composers you mention (Cooke, Scott, Gipps, Rootham, Lloyd) and some others I've heard and disliked (Brian, Rubbra). But your post reminds me that there were so, so many English composers in the past 100 years, many great, many not so great, but it was/is a true Renaissance. How did this all start? Who poured the fuel on the fire the most? Perhaps the answer is Ralph Vaughan Williams...?

One I've been curious about that you mention, @Oli, is Moeran. What would you say is his best work, or the best place to start, at least?

I appreciate everyone's help. This music is all new to me and I am enjoying some of it very much so far.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 02:18:46 PM

@Oli, I have never heard of some of those composers you mention (Cooke, Scott, Gipps, Rootham, Lloyd) and some others I've heard and disliked (Brian, Rubbra). But your post reminds me that there were so, so many English composers in the past 100 years, many great, many not so great, but it was/is a true Renaissance. How did this all start? Who poured the fuel on the fire the most? Perhaps the answer is Ralph Vaughan Williams...?

One I've been curious about that you mention, @Oli, is Moeran. What would you say is his best work, or the best place to start, at least?


 I have only been on this British journey myself for the last 12-15 months after years of struggling with those composers and others. It's basically been my soundtrack since then with magnificent discoveries, thanks to all info on the relevant threads and the infectious passion  of fellow highly informed members here (and past ones sadly). You can see my post on page 24 to give you an idea of what i sampled. And there have been many changes and additions since.

For Moeran, again his symphony with Boult on Lyrita is a definite winner. I have recently acquired some more works of his but only had partial listens before i can recommend.

Whatever sticks or doesn't, enjoy the journey
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 02:19:16 PM
For Butterworth, I recently received this one but it is still on the listening pile. Whatever I sampled however on YT of Butterworth impressed me too (songs and orchestral) and that seemed a good CD to cover this. There's also an alternative (dearer) on BIS.



The orchestral music on here is the same recordings that I have on the Decca 2CD I mentioned a few posts back with Neville Marriner and the ASMF. I can definitely vouch for it, great performances!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 26, 2020, 02:22:04 PM
The orchestral music on here is the same recordings that I have on the Decca 2CD I mentioned a few posts back with Neville Marriner and the ASMF. I can definitely vouch for it, great performances!

Cool, i should be listening to this in the next 2-3 days.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on January 26, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
Cool, i should be listening to this in the next 2-3 days.

You won't be disappointed! Though I see that you've placed Delius on your "struggle" list, so I suspect you may struggle to appreciate Butterworth as well, as Delius is who he reminds me of, though I find Butterworth's music more direct and tangible. I only wish he'd written more of it. I need to get my hands on that Naxos songs disc. There is another disc of Peter Warlock's songs on Naxos that I plan on getting too. God bless Naxos. I have discovered very much great music thanks to their extensive catalogue.

I'm listening to Arnold's Symphony No.5 now. What a symphony! Arnold was a hell of an orchestrator and we see those talents on display here more than any other. But the 9th remains my favorite for its profundity and strangeness. I have a feeling it's a very personal work, while this 5th symphony is more extraverted.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on January 26, 2020, 02:55:36 PM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P

 :laugh:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on January 26, 2020, 03:18:16 PM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P

OH NO!!! Surely it hasn't come to that!
 8)

PS I do like some non-British composers as well you know.
 ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on January 27, 2020, 01:10:27 AM
You won't be disappointed! Though I see that you've placed Delius on your "struggle" list, so I suspect you may struggle to appreciate Butterworth as well, as Delius is who he reminds me of, though I find Butterworth's music more direct and tangible. I only wish he'd written more of it. I need to get my hands on that Naxos songs disc. There is another disc of Peter Warlock's songs on Naxos that I plan on getting too. God bless Naxos. I have discovered very much great music thanks to their extensive catalogue.



More "direct and tangible" is spot on, I don't think Oliver will struggle with Butterworth. I am a great admirer of Butterworth's music but even more so the man. As a lieutenant at the Somme his comrades had no idea he was a musician let alone a composer. Also his father only found out that his son had been awarded a military cross after Butterworth's death.

I wish he had written more music too. A sniper's bullet put paid to that.

Amazingly that there is film of Butterworth although he perished in WW1.  https://youtu.be/tI5qxjWutrs?list=RDtI5qxjWutrs
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 27, 2020, 02:26:39 AM
You won't be disappointed! Though I see that you've placed Delius on your "struggle" list, so I suspect you may struggle to appreciate Butterworth as well, as Delius is who he reminds me of, though I find Butterworth's music more direct and tangible. I only wish he'd written more of it. I need to get my hands on that Naxos songs disc. There is another disc of Peter Warlock's songs on Naxos that I plan on getting too. God bless Naxos. I have discovered very much great music thanks to their extensive catalogue.

I'm listening to Arnold's Symphony No.5 now. What a symphony! Arnold was a hell of an orchestrator and we see those talents on display here more than any other. But the 9th remains my favorite for its profundity and strangeness. I have a feeling it's a very personal work, while this 5th symphony is more extraverted.

Good call re Arnold - his 5th Symphony is in many ways his most "typical" work.  Quite how to define typical in as diverse a composer as Arnold!?  By that I mean - as you say - brilliant yet very personal orchestrations, music that can slip from the overtly optimistically populist to the darkest most personal utterances and strangely powerful and engaging music.  I think the 9th is a truly remarkable work - disturbing and profound.  Yet it seems to struggle for acceptance with many still reading its starkness and bare textures as a sign of the composer's failing (failed) musical intellect. 

This is a recurring complaint of mine - so apologies in advance! - this is exactly the kind of work that should be programmed at the BBC Proms.  For all the  outreach to music of different cultures and genres at heart the Proms claims to the the "World's Greatest Classical Music Festival" and I would rather hear this Arnold Symphony (or any number of other works from other countries too) there than another semi-staged musical.  And that from someone who has spent much of his professional music career playing for shows!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on January 27, 2020, 08:17:19 AM
Honestly, I've given up with the Proms. It should really be reported to the ASA for a breach of the Trades Descriptions Act. As Britain's most widely-viewed classical music festival, it should be doing everything in its power to highlight British classical music. You could probably fill an entire week of the festival with mid-20th-century British orchestral and/or choral works never before heard at the Proms.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 29, 2020, 04:47:01 AM
for Finzi, this is just gorgeous:



For Alwyn: the symphonies conducted by Alwyn himself on Lyrita.

For Holst : one CD by Boult and  one by Imogen Holst, both on Lyrita as well.

Other composers to consider : Malcolm Arnold, Arnold Bax, Bantock, Moeran, Rubbra, Walton, George Lloyd.

All good shouts.  Bottom line is you'll almost never go wrong with a Lyrita disc.  That said the Arnold/Alwyn/Walton symphonies on Naxos are all very good indeed and might be a cheaper option.  Also the Holst discs on Naxos are excellent too.  Try Hamilton Harty while you're dipping a toe! - much of his stuff is distinctly Irish-influenced but a lovely symphony and violin concerto.....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 29, 2020, 04:50:57 AM
Re: Delius. The Barbirolli discs are indeed an excellent choice. I suppose you refer to this EMI twofer:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71XC5%2BAcLzL._AC_SL500_.jpg)

There’s a 79 min Naxos disc of other works I highly recommend, containing as it does an excellent Florida Suite with some rare and neglected stuff. There is practically no duplication with the Barbirolli discs, which is good. The final scene from his opera Koanga concludes the disc beautifully. Florida Suite contains the original iteration of La Calinda, which was to be re-used by Delius in Koanga. Nice thematic connection between the first and last works on the disc then.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71T3O1ruDzL._SL500_.jpg)

+`1 for these discs and also a mention for this other Lloyd-Jones compilation;

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81CeiIDBBlL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

superficially it might appear to be "just" another compilation of the shorter orchestral 'pops' but hidden in the programme are some real rarities/gems too - the 3 Small Tone Poems are ravishing and the American Rhapsody fascinating for those interested in the pre-cursor of Appalachia
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 29, 2020, 04:56:03 AM
Following Vandermolen's prompting (not really that much required!) I bought yesterday the Foulds' Cello Sonata.  Not the Chandos version mentioned but this one;

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/618YQfpV0cL._SY90_.jpg)

the back cover of this disc has the following message for "age-challenged" listeners.....  "the generous length of this CD may cause ejection difficulties in some older-generation players"..... you have been warned
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on January 29, 2020, 05:13:21 AM
Copied from the WAYL2 thread:
Three collective sets of Theme and Variations by british composers.

First is a Coronation offering initiated by Britten. In 1953 he enlisted Imogen Holst, Arthur Oldham, Michael Tippett, Lennox Berkeley, himself, Humphrey Searle and William Walton in the enterprise. This is the order in which they participated. At the premiere the composers were listed alphabetically and the public was invited to a guess-the-composer game. Nobody got it all right.

In 1966 the Severn Bridge Variations were commissioned for the opening of the suspended bridge over the Severn estuary that links England and Wales (watchers of The Crown: Prince Charles’ Wales journey starts with the crossing of the Rubicon Severn bridge). Three English and three Welsh composers were asked for a variation on a welsh hymn tune.  The theme and first variation came from the pen of Malcolm Arnold (easily recognizable), followed by efforts from Alun Hoddinot, Nicolas Maw, Daniel Jones, Grace Williams and Michael Tippett. I found this the most stimulating and enjoyable of the three works.

The third set dates from 1987 and was commissioned by the Aldeburgh Festival for its 40th anniversary. The theme is based on the Sumer is acumen melody used by Britten in the finale of his own Simple Symphony. A short introduction precedes the statement of the theme, arranged by Oliver Knussen. The other variations are from Robert Saxton, Robin Holloway, Judith Weir, Alexander Goehr (beautiful), Colin Mathews and David Bedford.

The disc is not very long (55 minutes) but presents a richly varied and quite substantial program. I enjoyed all 20 tracks. Recommended.

Own it, fully agree. #thanksforreminding
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on January 29, 2020, 06:50:01 AM
Following Vandermolen's prompting (not really that much required!) I bought yesterday the Foulds' Cello Sonata.  Not the Chandos version mentioned but this one;

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/618YQfpV0cL._SY90_.jpg)

the back cover of this disc has the following message for "age-challenged" listeners.....  "the generous length of this CD may cause ejection difficulties in some older-generation players"..... you have been warned
Hilarious!

Hope you enjoy the Foulds. I really like that CD and personally experienced no 'ejection problems' 😎
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on January 29, 2020, 07:53:33 AM
And Arnold Cooke
and Havergal Brian
and Cyril Scott
and Ruth Gipps
and Cyril Rootham
and...
and...

Christ on a bike, I am turning into Vandermolen  :o :laugh: :P

Add some extra dose of good old Myaskovsky & you'll be perfect.  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 29, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
Add some extra dose of good old Myaskovsky & you'll be perfect.  8)

 ;D

we kid, we kid, but that reminds me i still need to try the Myaskovsky recommendations I got from Jeffrey recently (16 symphonies out of the 27.. initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on January 29, 2020, 11:18:41 AM
;D

we kid, we kid, but that reminds me i still need to try the Myaskovsky recommendations I got from Jeffrey recently (16 symphonies out of the 27.. initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:

I'm happy to recommend a select list of Alan Hovhaness favourites as well.
 ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on January 30, 2020, 12:35:00 PM
... initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:

Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on January 30, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
... initially !!  ;D). Glad i didn't ask recommendations for Leif Segerstam's...  :P 0:) :laugh:

Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).

I'm happy to recommend a select list of Alan Hovhaness favourites as well.
 ;D

I always start with symphonies Nos. 1-274, what would you recommend next? The God-created Whales - but are they also to be considered Hovhaness' creations then?  :-X
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on January 30, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).

I always start with symphonies Nos. 1-274, what would you recommend next? The God-created Whales - but are they also to be considered Hovhaness' creations then?  :-X
Yes, plus 'The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam' and 'Meditations on Orpheus' - just for starters.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on January 30, 2020, 02:58:50 PM
Just to bring back on topic after derailing it  0:) I am 100 pages in this one and this is very detailed and informative. Yet to get to the bulk of composers covered but the build up from land ohne musik onwards and its wrong prejudice/real struggle is well analysed.


Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 30, 2020, 02:59:20 PM
Good start, just 16, no more than half of the Havergal Brian output or 1,17365425 percent of the Symphonic Segerstam Flood. (Almost thankful Boulez didn't compose symphonies, hardly any music, for that matter.  ??? ).

Funny!

I always start with symphonies Nos. 1-274, what would you recommend next? The God-created Whales - but are they also to be considered Hovhaness' creations then?  :-X

He only composed 67 symphonies AFAIK. Quite few actually if compared with the crazy Segerstam. To compose such ridiculuos number of symphonies makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on January 30, 2020, 10:45:31 PM
He only composed 67 symphonies AFAIK. Quite few actually if compared with the crazy Segerstam. To compose such ridiculuos number of symphonies makes no sense at all.

But why not? In any case: I own about twenty Hovhaness symphonies & did play quite a few of them in the past. He's certainly an open, inspired composer, no window-dressing, often moving.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on January 31, 2020, 06:12:28 AM
Back to British composers, I've just listened again to Wordsworth's Symphony No. 3. What a haunting middle movement! The celesta in particular has a starring role.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on January 31, 2020, 04:22:44 PM
Back to British composers, I've just listened again to Wordsworth's Symphony No. 3. What a haunting middle movement! The celesta in particular has a starring role.

+1. I received my copy of Wordsworth' symphonies Nos. 2 & 3 from Dundonnell (Colin Mackie, since long a sleeping member here, but ten years ago one of the main contributors) on his visit to my home town of Utrecht, I think about ten years ago - and was completely overwhelmed.

I played it dozens of times during a stay in a German village, Winter of 2010, and cherish this memory as one of those moments some piece of music really 'comes in' irresistably. Wordsworth is a unique symphonist, one of those individualist that will never gain much recognition, but ranking high on my personal list of special composers. Like Herman Koppel does, Arnold Cooke, Ruth Gipps, or Hendrik Andriessen.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on February 01, 2020, 02:02:23 AM
+1. I received my copy of Wordsworth' symphonies Nos. 2 & 3 from Dundonnell (Colin Mackie, since long a sleeping member here, but ten years ago one of the main contributors) on his visit to my home town of Utrecht, I think about ten years ago - and was completely overwhelmed.

I played it dozens of times during a stay in a German village, Winter of 2010, and cherish this memory as one of those moments some piece of music really 'comes in' irresistably. Wordsworth is a unique symphonist, one of those individualist that will never gain much recognition, but ranking high on my personal list of special composers. Like Herman Koppel does, Arnold Cooke, Ruth Gipps, or Hendrik Andriessen.  :)

Cracking post. I came by my copy by a similar route as a gift from a present main contributor. An act of great generosity. 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 01, 2020, 02:24:14 AM
+1. I received my copy of Wordsworth' symphonies Nos. 2 & 3 from Dundonnell (Colin Mackie, since long a sleeping member here, but ten years ago one of the main contributors) on his visit to my home town of Utrecht, I think about ten years ago - and was completely overwhelmed.

I played it dozens of times during a stay in a German village, Winter of 2010, and cherish this memory as one of those moments some piece of music really 'comes in' irresistably. Wordsworth is a unique symphonist, one of those individualist that will never gain much recognition, but ranking high on my personal list of special composers. Like Herman Koppel does, Arnold Cooke, Ruth Gipps, or Hendrik Andriessen.  :)
Wordsworth's Second Symphony is one that I have grown to appreciate more and more over the last few years. In their boxed set of British Symphonies I think that Lyrita should have included it instead of the IMO less interesting No.3. Likewise a pity they could find no room for Boult's recording of Moeran's Symphony alongside the fine Sinfonietta.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on February 01, 2020, 05:59:13 AM
I am really fascinated with Old English history, excessively so considering I am an American of limited English heritage, and I was wondering if there was any work by an English composer that explores the Anglo-Saxon heritage of his or her country...? Be it opera, ballet, tone poem, or what have you, I would be curious to know of it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: steve ridgway on February 01, 2020, 06:27:32 AM
There is Birtwistle's opera Gawain based on the stories of King Arthur although not being keen on opera I have only heard the orchestral Gawain's Journey.



Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on February 01, 2020, 06:35:41 AM
There is Birtwistle's opera Gawain based on the stories of King Arthur although not being keen on opera I have only heard the orchestral Gawain's Journey.





Awesome, and from Birtwistle who I have been meaning to explore anyway, no less. I will have to check out the orchestral one and maybe then the opera (I'm not a big opera guy either).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Klaatu on February 01, 2020, 09:04:27 AM
Unfortunately a different genre altogether, and probably not your cup of tea at all, but the English heavy metal band Forefather has focussed on our country's Anglo Saxon heritage for their entire career. Their albums are highly regarded by many, including this old metalhead. Here's a great song of theirs, The Golden Dragon, which deals with the impact of Christianity on the Anglo Saxon world:

https://youtu.be/B2daMFuvx5U
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 02, 2020, 03:43:25 AM
I am really fascinated with Old English history, excessively so considering I am an American of limited English heritage, and I was wondering if there was any work by an English composer that explores the Anglo-Saxon heritage of his or her country...? Be it opera, ballet, tone poem, or what have you, I would be curious to know of it.

The obvious one is Rutland Boughton and his Arthurian cycle of operas which were to be staged at Glastonbury - yes THAT Glastonbury - and were to rival Bayreuth.  The Queen of Cornwall has been recorded on Dutton - but to be hones it ain't great!  Some of Boughton's straight orchestral stuff is nice but not extraordinary.  The Immortal Hour still holds the UK record for most consecutive performances of a British opera here.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Klaatu on February 02, 2020, 04:49:24 AM
There are two works based on the old Anglo Saxon poem The Dream of the Rood:

The first by Howard Ferguson, who was a British, though not English, composer - he was born in Northern Ireland:

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Rood-Ferguson/dp/B000000APZ#immersive-view_1580646529282

The other by a contemporary English composer, John Casken:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Casken-Dream-Hilliard-Ensemble/dp/B07S98KYMG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=casken+dream+of+the+rood+cd&qid=1580646915&sr=8-1#immersive-view_1580646925983

And then there's Elgar's King Olaf, whose subject is Olaf Tryggvason, King of Norway, who had links with Anglo- Saxon England and is mentioned in the 11th century Anglo Saxon Chronicle:

https://englishlanguageandhistory.com/?id=anglo-saxon-chronicle-olaf-tryggvason-oath-1.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Klaatu on February 02, 2020, 04:58:35 AM
And continuing the Arthurian theme, there is of course Elgar's suite Arthur:

https://youtu.be/7D9i_BUOuJc

and Sullivan's King Arthur:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sullivan-Macbeth-Arthur-Merry-Windsor/dp/B00000461Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_16?keywords=sullivan&qid=1580648192&s=music&sr=1-16#immersive-view_1580648236333
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on February 02, 2020, 05:00:02 AM
There are two works based on the old Anglo Saxon poem The Dream of the Rood:

The first by Howard Ferguson, who was a British, though not English, composer - he was born in Northern Ireland:

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Rood-Ferguson/dp/B000000APZ#immersive-view_1580646529282

The other by a contemporary English composer, John Casken:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Casken-Dream-Hilliard-Ensemble/dp/B07S98KYMG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=casken+dream+of+the+rood+cd&qid=1580646915&sr=8-1#immersive-view_1580646925983

And then there's Elgar's King Olaf, whose subject is Olaf Tryggvason, King of Norway, who had links with Anglo- Saxon England and is mentioned in the 11th century Anglo Saxon Chronicle:

https://englishlanguageandhistory.com/?id=anglo-saxon-chronicle-olaf-tryggvason-oath-1.

Awesome, thanks. The kind of thing I'm looking for. Re: Forefather, I was a metalhead long before I was into classical music—but I do not know them, so I'll have to check it out. Thanks. For how much I love Bathory and other Scandanavian bands whose music explores their heritage as old Northmen, I'm sure there is something for me to appreciate in metal groups coming from the UK in a similar vein.

@Roasted Swan, thanks, I wasn't aware of this Boughton, and I appreciate your candor in telling me that his music may be nothing special after all  ;D but it is something to be curious about. I'll have to check some of it out some time.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Klaatu on February 02, 2020, 05:19:41 AM
I forgot that Henry Purcell also wrote a King Arthur:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Purcell-King-Arthur-Henry/dp/B004CYNMDM#immersive-view_1580648960642

Oddly enough, English composers don't seem to have been inspired by the great Anglo-Saxon poem Beowulf; the only composition I'm aware of is the Lament for Beowulf by Howard Hanson - but he was American!

On the metalhead front, the band Thy Majestie wrote a great album dealing with the overthrow of Harold Godwinson and thus, of Anglo Saxon England:

https://youtu.be/T-eRk67UDmA

....but this band is Italian! I sometimes think that we English don't get enough mileage out of our own history!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vers la flamme on February 02, 2020, 06:27:48 AM
I forgot that Henry Purcell also wrote a King Arthur:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Purcell-King-Arthur-Henry/dp/B004CYNMDM#immersive-view_1580648960642

Oddly enough, English composers don't seem to have been inspired by the great Anglo-Saxon poem Beowulf; the only composition I'm aware of is the Lament for Beowulf by Howard Hanson - but he was American!

On the metalhead front, the band Thy Majestie wrote a great album dealing with the overthrow of Harold Godwinson and thus, of Anglo Saxon England:

https://youtu.be/T-eRk67UDmA

....but this band is Italian! I sometimes think that we English don't get enough mileage out of our own history!


I would agree, especially with as fascinating as it is!! I can't believe no one has made music inspired by Beowulf. One would think that if three dozen Finnish composers have written tone poems, operas, ballets, and symphonies based on the Kalevala, at least one Englishman would have written a Beowulf tone poem. I suppose nationalism may have been a less pressing issue there in the UK at the time that all of this Kalevala revival stuff was going down...? I don't know.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on February 02, 2020, 08:51:30 AM
Wordsworth's Second Symphony is one that I have grown to appreciate more and more over the last few years. In their boxed set of British Symphonies I think that Lyrita should have included it instead of the IMO less interesting No.3. Likewise a pity they could find no room for Boult's recording of Moeran's Symphony alongside the fine Sinfonietta.

I'm probably going to have to get that recording of No. 2 and put up with the duplicate No. 3. I've also seen a couple of other recordings of Wordsworth's music on Toccata that I have my eye on as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: steve ridgway on February 02, 2020, 10:07:36 AM
I would agree, especially with as fascinating as it is!! I can't believe no one has made music inspired by Beowulf. One would think that if three dozen Finnish composers have written tone poems, operas, ballets, and symphonies based on the Kalevala, at least one Englishman would have written a Beowulf tone poem. I suppose nationalism may have been a less pressing issue there in the UK at the time that all of this Kalevala revival stuff was going down...? I don't know.

I didn’t opt for History at school because it had a very poor record of exam passes, so have mostly learnt from reading, but the Anglo-Saxon period doesn’t seem to get much mention. Maybe because the well educated aristocracy were all Normans.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Iota on February 02, 2020, 10:37:40 AM
I can't believe no one has made music inspired by Beowulf. One would think that if three dozen Finnish composers have written tone poems, operas, ballets, and symphonies based on the Kalevala, at least one Englishman would have written a Beowulf tone poem. I suppose nationalism may have been a less pressing issue there in the UK at the time that all of this Kalevala revival stuff was going down...? I don't know.

Interesting point. I suppose we had Shakespeare who came along and towards whom composers' eyes were drawn, thus perhaps depriving Beowulf of some of the limelight it might have otherwise received.
But like you I have no idea. Beowulf had more success attracting literary attention I think, Tolkien and LotR being one I've heard mentioned.

I didn’t opt for History at school because it had a very poor record of exam passes, so have mostly learnt from reading, but the Anglo-Saxon period doesn’t seem to get much mention. Maybe because the well educated aristocracy were all Normans.

An interesting thought!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Klaatu on February 02, 2020, 11:23:41 AM
Well now, I've just found one composer who's had a go at it:

https://www.warwickartscentre.co.uk/news/2019/06/composer-toby-young-talks-about-bringing-beowulf-to-life-in-music/
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 02, 2020, 01:24:28 PM
I didn’t opt for History at school because it had a very poor record of exam passes, so have mostly learnt from reading, but the Anglo-Saxon period doesn’t seem to get much mention. Maybe because the well educated aristocracy were all Normans.

I opted for History at school because I failed most of my other subjects!
I studied History and English in my first year at university. The English course included compulsory Anglo-Saxon - didn't understand any of it although I loved the stuff on the History of the English language (there was a really good book by an American academic called Baugh I seem to recall). Languages were never my strong point. For example this is a true conversation between myself and the O Level examiner.
Examiner (in French) 'What is the weather like?'
Me (aged 15 or 16) 'Ten past three'.

Back on topic, don't forget the American composer Howard Hanson's excellent 'Lament for Beowolf'. Don't know if he counts as he's not English:
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 02, 2020, 01:49:24 PM
I'm probably going to have to get that recording of No. 2 and put up with the duplicate No. 3. I've also seen a couple of other recordings of Wordsworth's music on Toccata that I have my eye on as well.
I don't think you'll regret it. No.2 is very impressive I think.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Iota on February 03, 2020, 05:46:52 AM
Languages were never my strong point. For example this is a true conversation between myself and the O Level examiner.
Examiner (in French) 'What is the weather like?'
Me (aged 15 or 16) 'Ten past three'.

  :laugh:

Yet another laugh out loud, affection-inducing vignette from La vie de vandermolen!

I still chuckle at story of your father standing up in the cinema for the national anthem with a dead leg and rolling over (.. I might've said it had me rolling in the aisles, heh). My own frailties and idiocy would extend to a War and Peace length compendium, so empathy comes easily!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 03, 2020, 01:34:43 PM
  :laugh:

Yet another laugh out loud, affection-inducing vignette from La vie de vandermolen!

I still chuckle at story of your father standing up in the cinema for the national anthem with a dead leg and rolling over (.. I might've said it had me rolling in the aisles, heh). My own frailties and idiocy would extend to a War and Peace length compendium, so empathy comes easily!

How kind of you to remember that! My father told me that once in the intermission, during a film at the cinema, my mother, when asked,  said that she did not want an ice cream then, typically, changed her mind as the film was about to re-start. In the darkness my father went through the wrong door and found himself outside the cinema on the street and unable to get back in. Yes, his rolling down the aisles during the National Anthem was an act of great disrespect to His/Her Majesty.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 04, 2020, 09:52:28 AM
An interesting radio documentary about Stanley Bate on the BBC at the moment - broadcast on Monday I think.  Interesting simply because so little is known about him or indeed much of his music.  Good to hear a couple of songs recorded for the programme.  It did teeter on generalities - Stephen Bell (conductor of the recording of the Viola Concerto) resorting to bland non-specific comments (who can blame him) when asked to make observations about the Bate Symphony No.2 when handed the score for literally the first time ("its big".... kind of thing).  I know some rate Bate very highly - Vandermolen I'm looking at YOU!! - I think he's good without being exceptional.  Perhaps if he had lived longer his music would have deepened.  One interesting fact from the programme was reference to the ease with which he could write music down.  As ever raising the question about when facility slips into the facile......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq

certainly worth a listen for those interested in British 20th Century music.  And if you are not - why are you reading this thread ( ;))
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 04, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
How kind of you to remember that! My father told me that once in the intermission, during a film at the cinema, my mother, when asked,  said that she did not want an ice cream then, typically, changed her mind as the film was about to re-start. In the darkness my father went through the wrong door and found himself outside the cinema on the street and unable to get back in. Yes, his rolling down the aisles during the National Anthem was an act of great disrespect to His/Her Majesty.

Great story (two stories even). Never read them before, many thanks! BTW hope he suffered for the Right National Anthem - since You Over There Across the North Sea seem to uphold the luxury of having several Almost National Anthems. I recall one urging Brittania to rule (we don't pay reverences to, you did that long enough, you rascals), one urging God to save the Queen (very apt, you're a people everybody needs to be protected against), one by Parry glorifying Jerusalem (no wonder after the Blitz) and a handful more, but always set to music by Elgar because he's your most German composer & the only one you take serious enough since your other anthem-setting German businessman called Georg Friedrich Händel (Fritz Handl for you)........ Oh, yes, 'Hallelujah' another one of your More Than National Anthems, actually the only one I'm prepared to stand up for, hoping they'll skip the whole Messiah Part Three if we applaud long enough.  :-X

 8) 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on February 04, 2020, 10:52:20 AM
An interesting radio documentary about Stanley Bate on the BBC at the moment - broadcast on Monday I think.  Interesting simply because so little is known about him or indeed much of his music.  Good to hear a couple of songs recorded for the programme.  It did teeter on generalities - Stephen Bell (conductor of the recording of the Viola Concerto) resorting to bland non-specific comments (who can blame him) when asked to make observations about the Bate Symphony No.2 when handed the score for literally the first time ("its big".... kind of thing).  I know some rate Bate very highly - Vandermolen I'm looking at YOU!! - I think he's good without being exceptional.  Perhaps if he had lived longer his music would have deepened.  One interesting fact from the programme was reference to the ease with which he could write music down.  As ever raising the question about when facility slips into the facile......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq

certainly worth a listen for those interested in British 20th Century music.  And if you are not - why are you reading this thread ( ;))

Thank you for the heads up RS.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Iota on February 04, 2020, 12:46:11 PM
My father told me that once in the intermission, during a film at the cinema, my mother, when asked,  said that she did not want an ice cream then, typically, changed her mind as the film was about to re-start. In the darkness my father went through the wrong door and found himself outside the cinema on the street and unable to get back in.

 :laugh:  Another gem! You really have the Midas touch when portraying our wistful little losing battles with life .. touching/amusing in a Jaques Tati/Tony Hancock tragi-comedie sort of way.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 05, 2020, 12:13:32 AM
An interesting radio documentary about Stanley Bate on the BBC at the moment - broadcast on Monday I think.  Interesting simply because so little is known about him or indeed much of his music.  Good to hear a couple of songs recorded for the programme.  It did teeter on generalities - Stephen Bell (conductor of the recording of the Viola Concerto) resorting to bland non-specific comments (who can blame him) when asked to make observations about the Bate Symphony No.2 when handed the score for literally the first time ("its big".... kind of thing).  I know some rate Bate very highly - Vandermolen I'm looking at YOU!! - I think he's good without being exceptional.  Perhaps if he had lived longer his music would have deepened.  One interesting fact from the programme was reference to the ease with which he could write music down.  As ever raising the question about when facility slips into the facile......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq

certainly worth a listen for those interested in British 20th Century music.  And if you are not - why are you reading this thread ( ;))
How interesting! Thanks for posting this RS. Must listen but have to go to work (how infuriating!  >:D). Christo is another fan. I rate him very highly (Bate and Christo  8)) and have liked everything I've heard by him - symphonies 3 and 4 especially ( he's good on the 'hopeless defiance' which always appeals to me). Also the Viola and Piano Concerto. That Chandos CD with Chisholm's 'Pictures from Dante' and the Arnell work is one of my favourite CDs.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 05, 2020, 12:16:57 AM
Great story (two stories even). Never read them before, many thanks! BTW hope he suffered for the Right National Anthem - since You Over There Across the North Sea seem to uphold the luxury of having several Almost National Anthems. I recall one urging Brittania to rule (we don't pay reverences to, you did that long enough, you rascals), one urging God to save the Queen (very apt, you're a people everybody needs to be protected against), one by Parry glorifying Jerusalem (no wonder after the Blitz) and a handful more, but always set to music by Elgar because he's your most German composer & the only one you take serious enough since your other anthem-setting German businessman called Georg Friedrich Händel (Fritz Handl for you)........ Oh, yes, 'Hallelujah' another one of your More Than National Anthems, actually the only one I'm prepared to stand up for, hoping they'll skip the whole Messiah Part Three if we applaud long enough.  :-X

 8)
  :)  They should have chosen 'Jerusalem'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 05, 2020, 12:19:00 AM
:laugh:  Another gem! You really have the Midas touch when portraying our wistful little losing battles with life .. touching/amusing in a Jaques Tati/Tony Hancock tragi-comedie sort of way.
Thank you  :)
Those are two of my favourite comedians.

One day I must tell you about the time that I inadvertently (I promise) ended up in a strip-club whilst being in charge of a school trip abroad, but I'll leave that for another time.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 05, 2020, 12:39:07 AM
  :)  They should have chosen 'Jerusalem'.

Yep. At least that would be something to long for.  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on February 05, 2020, 12:51:34 AM
  :)  They should have chosen 'Jerusalem'.

they should pick the Grand Grand Festival overture...then each quarter of the stadium or venue or crowd can sing the sound of their own vacuum cleaner section or floor polisher ...and we can rename it God save the Clean.... :blank:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 05, 2020, 01:21:03 AM
they should pick the Grand Grand Festival overture...then each quarter of the stadium or venue or crowd can sing the sound of their own vacuum cleaner section or floor polisher ...and we can rename it God save the Clean.... :blank:
Brilliant idea!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 05, 2020, 04:56:51 AM
Brilliant idea!
they should pick the Grand Grand Festival overture...then each quarter of the stadium or venue or crowd can sing the sound of their own vacuum cleaner section or floor polisher ...and we can rename it God save the Clean.... :blank:

Believe it - or not - but that's almost exactly what the Czechs did with this glorious overture, over 30 years ago - just to offer a fine example for everything still British after Brexit (not much, but still):
https://www.youtube.com/v/_Effvz9H9UQ (The opening scenes)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: steve ridgway on February 05, 2020, 08:13:00 AM
Great story (two stories even). Never read them before, many thanks! BTW hope he suffered for the Right National Anthem - since You Over There Across the North Sea seem to uphold the luxury of having several Almost National Anthems. I recall one urging Brittania to rule (we don't pay reverences to, you did that long enough, you rascals), one urging God to save the Queen (very apt, you're a people everybody needs to be protected against), one by Parry glorifying Jerusalem (no wonder after the Blitz) and a handful more, but always set to music by Elgar because he's your most German composer & the only one you take serious enough since your other anthem-setting German businessman called Georg Friedrich Händel (Fritz Handl for you)........ Oh, yes, 'Hallelujah' another one of your More Than National Anthems, actually the only one I'm prepared to stand up for, hoping they'll skip the whole Messiah Part Three if we applaud long enough.  :-X

 8)

We don't actually have an English National Anthem so as it ought to be by an English composer may I suggest Holst's Mars?  >:D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 05, 2020, 10:37:46 AM
We don't actually have an English National Anthem so as it ought to be by an English composer may I suggest Holst's Mars?  >:D

No, you don't. After all, we beat you in three consequent Anglo-Dutch wars, 1652-1674, so please leave your war drums at home this time. Of course Gustavus von Holst [your anthem composers always Germans, isn't it] wrote yet another of your dozens of Almost National Anthems. Yes, it is part of The Planets, namely the great tune of 'Jupiter' set to some Jingoistic utterings I won't translate:  :-X

https://www.youtube.com/v/bvouc8Qs_MI  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 06, 2020, 04:47:43 AM
No, you don't. After all, we beat you in three consequent Anglo-Dutch wars, 1652-1674, so please leave your war drums at home this time. Of course Gustavus von Holst [your anthem composers always Germans, isn't it] wrote yet another of your dozens of Almost National Anthems. Yes, it is part of The Planets, namely the great tune of 'Jupiter' set to some Jingoistic utterings I won't translate:  :-X

https://www.youtube.com/v/bvouc8Qs_MI  8)

Total tangent..... I read a really interesting book recently

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71vCTIsKShL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

which covers the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War in the midst of the Plague and the Fire of London.  In my ignorance I knew nothing about it but was fascinated how in the great spirit of "Fake News" the British government declared our defeat a major victory because they so feared civil unrest even Revolution if such a military set-back was announced on the back of the other 2 catastrophes...... everything old is new again......
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Iota on February 06, 2020, 05:01:17 AM
Thank you  :)
Those are two of my favourite comedians.

One day I must tell you about the time that I inadvertently (I promise) ended up in a strip-club whilst being in charge of a school trip abroad, but I'll leave that for another time.

Ha ha, that sounds like it's worth waiting for!

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on February 14, 2020, 07:07:19 AM
Suffering PC problems  >:( so unable to post pic or link but completely taken by surprise by “Improvisations on a Theme by Constant Lambert” by Alan Rawsthorne with the Ulster Orchestra directed by Takuo Yusska on Naxos. Just over 12 minutes in length and used as a filler for the two PCs expectations were not particularly high. How wrong is that! A terrific piece dedicated to Rawsthorne’s wife who happened to be Lambert’s widow. Highly recommended with an excellent atmospheric performance from all concerned.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 14, 2020, 08:43:08 AM
Suffering PC problems  >:( so unable to post pic or link but completely taken by surprise by “Improvisations on a Theme by Constant Lambert” by Alan Rawsthorne with the Ulster Orchestra directed by Takuo Yusska on Naxos. Just over 12 minutes in length and used as a filler for the two PCs expectations were not particularly high. How wrong is that! A terrific piece dedicated to Rawsthorne’s wife who happened to be Lambert’s widow. Highly recommended with an excellent atmospheric performance from all concerned.
Must look that one out Lol, especially as I have the CD. Thanks for drawing our attention to it. PC No.2 is a great favourite of mine.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 14, 2020, 10:05:54 AM
Total tangent..... .

Very funny to watch your polite, very British responses here, mostly silently obliging: almost as solemn as Germans politely condemning some aspect of German responsibility for WW II.  :D
(As if smaller & happier nations, yet not even that small, would still feel the burden of some 17th Century conflict of two overtly competing commercial interests as a personal affront. Very funny indeed.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 14, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Very funny to watch your polite, very British responses here, mostly silently obliging: almost as solemn as Germans politely condemning some aspect of German responsibility for WW II.  :D
(As if smaller & happier nations, yet not even that small, would still feel the burden of some 17th Century conflict of two overtly competing commercial interests as a personal affront. Very funny indeed.  ;D 8)
In my solemn very polite British way I have not got a clue what you are talking about....
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 14, 2020, 10:57:36 PM
In my solemn very polite British way I have not got a clue what you are talking about....

Actually this:
which covers the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War in the midst of the Plague and the Fire of London.  In my ignorance I knew nothing about it but was fascinated how in the great spirit of "Fake News" the British government declared our defeat a major victory because they so feared civil unrest even Revolution if such a military set-back was announced on the back of the other 2 catastrophes...... everything old is new again......
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on February 24, 2020, 10:58:17 AM
Just logging my appreciation for this book "Boult on Music". If you are already fully familiar with Boult and his history, you may not learn anything much new, but for where I am in my exploration of this man's music, this is a nifty accompaniment and a nice insight into a classical world of yesteryear. I have yet to start his own book "My Own Trumpet", i'll see how I get on with this one.

That "Boult on Music" was part of a Toccata Press series of Musicians on Music. I have one of the 2 volumes with Havergal Brian in the listening pile. There are also volumes with Dallapiccola and Holmboe. According to the inner cover, there's meant to be a volume with Rubbra as well but I can not find any trace of it on the Toccata website or elsewhere online. Does anybody know of it please ?


(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19830101000000/Boult-on-Music-645x1024.jpg)(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19861015000000/Havergal-Brian-on-Music-Vol1-658x1024.jpg)  (https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/20100115000000/Havergal-Brian-on-Music-Vol2-686x1024.jpg)(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19870515000000/Dallapiccola-on-Opera-637x1024.jpg)(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19910515000000/Experiencing-Music-Holmboe-658x1024.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2020, 02:00:32 PM
Just logging my appreciation for this book "Boult on Music". If you are already fully familiar with Boult and his history, you may not learn anything much new, but for where I am in my exploration of this man's music, this is a nifty accompaniment and a nice insight into a classical world of yesteryear. I have yet to start his own book "My Own Trumpet", i'll see how I get on with this one.

That "Boult on Music" was part of a Toccata Press series of Musicians on Music. I have one of the 2 volumes with Havergal Brian in the listening pile. There are also volumes with Dallapiccola and Holmboe. According to the inner cover, there's meant to be a volume with Rubbra as well but I can not find any trace of it on the Toccata website or elsewhere online. Does anybody know of it please ?


(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19830101000000/Boult-on-Music-645x1024.jpg)(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19861015000000/Havergal-Brian-on-Music-Vol1-658x1024.jpg)  (https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/20100115000000/Havergal-Brian-on-Music-Vol2-686x1024.jpg)(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19870515000000/Dallapiccola-on-Opera-637x1024.jpg)(https://d2duss065tgxcq.cloudfront.net/toccata/wp-content/uploads/19910515000000/Experiencing-Music-Holmboe-658x1024.jpg)
The only book I know about Rubbra is pictured below. I don't have it as it was too expensive. However, thanks to a very kind GMG forum member I do have 'Ordeal by Music' the earliest monograph on HB as far as I'm aware. I wonder if the book about Vagn Holmboe features a photo of one of his many cocktail parties with Christo of this forum  8).
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on February 24, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
In my solemn very polite British way I have not got a clue what you are talking about....

American translation: He's full of shit.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on February 24, 2020, 11:27:37 PM
I wonder if the book about Vagn Holmboe features a photo of one of his many cocktail parties with Christo of this forum  8).

I had brougth some pot with me from Amsterdam, it explains much of his transparant later style.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2020, 11:44:22 PM
I had brougth some pot with me from Amsterdam, it explains much of his transparant later style.
Excellent! That explains a lot.  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on February 25, 2020, 07:05:43 AM
The only book I know about Rubbra is pictured below. I don't have it as it was too expensive. However, thanks to a very kind GMG forum member I do have 'Ordeal by Music' the earliest monograph on HB as far as I'm aware. I wonder if the book about Vagn Holmboe features a photo of one of his many cocktail parties with Christo of this forum  8).
(http://)

 ;D

I'll keep an eye out for the Rubbra Symphonist, if any cheap copies fly around...

PS: I have never heard any Dallapicccola or Holmboe  ??? :blank:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 25, 2020, 07:08:19 AM
American translation: He's full of shit.

How did a very mild comment about a 300 year old war (and how it was contemporaneously reported in the British press which I happened to find interesting and with a resonance for our own time) suddenly end up with me being "full of shit"?  That's the bit I don't understand........
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on February 26, 2020, 07:00:56 AM
How did a very mild comment about a 300 year old war (and how it was contemporaneously reported in the British press which I happened to find interesting and with a resonance for our own time) suddenly end up with me being "full of shit"?  That's the bit I don't understand........

"I have not got a clue what you are talking about...." = "someone is full of it".  Never mind, it was a bad joke.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: aukhawk on March 01, 2020, 01:28:24 AM
The only book I know about Rubbra is pictured below. I don't have it as it was too expensive.

I dimly remember Leo Black the author of that book.  Our paths crossed regularly back in the early '70s but I'm struggling to remember the context.  Unlikely as it may sound, it think it must have been because we both played at the same table-tennis club in central London.  Like me he was a BBC staffer I think, probably a R3 producer, and he was well-named with a very black mane of hair and a Rubbra-esque goatee.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on March 01, 2020, 01:57:15 AM
I dimly remember Leo Black the author of that book.  Our paths crossed regularly back in the early '70s but I'm struggling to remember the context.  Unlikely as it may sound, it think it must have been because we both played at the same table-tennis club in central London.  Like me he was a BBC staffer I think, probably a R3 producer, and he was well-named with a very black mane of hair and a Rubbra-esque goatee.
Nice story! I hope that you discussed Rubbra whilst playing table-tennis (I was going to say 'ping-pong' but that, I suspect would be frowned upon)  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 04:41:59 AM
Dorothy Howell: Violin Sonata, Rosalind for Violin & Piano, Sonata for Piano, Humoresque for Piano, Five Studies for Piano, The Moorings for Violin & Piano and Phantasy for Violin & Piano.

An outstanding in every way CD that I enjoyed immensely. The Violin Sonata, a strong work of flowing lines with a whimsical middle movement (something Howell is good at). Works with violin are a personal interest but the strongest work here is undoubtedly the Piano Sonata - what a piece! Howell never married and although she didn't have any she loved children. The second movement is in the form of a gentle cradle song with a rhythmic pattern - I found this music deeply moving. Jeffrey alerted me to this CD (and composer) through The Moorings, again a whimsical piece with an evocation of water. Yet another Cobbet prize winner, Phantasy is in contrast to The Moorings a more assertive piece. But it is Howell in a melancholy mood I like best.
A fabulous CD which will be back in the tray this evening - can't wait!   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on March 12, 2020, 07:45:45 AM
Dorothy Howell: Violin Sonata, Rosalind for Violin & Piano, Sonata for Piano, Humoresque for Piano, Five Studies for Piano, The Moorings for Violin & Piano and Phantasy for Violin & Piano.

An outstanding in every way CD that I enjoyed immensely. The Violin Sonata, a strong work of flowing lines with a whimsical middle movement (something Howell is good at). Works with violin are a personal interest but the strongest work here is undoubtedly the Piano Sonata - what a piece! Howell never married and although she didn't have any she loved children. The second movement is in the form of a gentle cradle song with a rhythmic pattern - I found this music deeply moving. Jeffrey alerted me to this CD (and composer) through The Moorings, again a whimsical piece with an evocation of water. Yet another Cobbet prize winner, Phantasy is in contrast to The Moorings a more assertive piece. But it is Howell in a melancholy mood I like best.
A fabulous CD which will be back in the tray this evening - can't wait!   
Right! I have to order this. A victim of my own recommendation. The Moorings was very nice and your comments on the rest of the CD are enough for me. I liked 'Lamia' very much at the Proms and even have two CD recordings of it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 12, 2020, 07:57:41 AM
Dorothy Howell: Violin Sonata, Rosalind for Violin & Piano, Sonata for Piano, Humoresque for Piano, Five Studies for Piano, The Moorings for Violin & Piano and Phantasy for Violin & Piano.

An outstanding in every way CD that I enjoyed immensely. The Violin Sonata, a strong work of flowing lines with a whimsical middle movement (something Howell is good at). Works with violin are a personal interest but the strongest work here is undoubtedly the Piano Sonata - what a piece! Howell never married and although she didn't have any she loved children. The second movement is in the form of a gentle cradle song with a rhythmic pattern - I found this music deeply moving. Jeffrey alerted me to this CD (and composer) through The Moorings, again a whimsical piece with an evocation of water. Yet another Cobbet prize winner, Phantasy is in contrast to The Moorings a more assertive piece. But it is Howell in a melancholy mood I like best.
A fabulous CD which will be back in the tray this evening - can't wait!   

I first discovered Howell through playing a really charming "Minuet" for String Quartet.  This was published as part of "Cramers Library of String Music" series of which it was No.3.  This was a series of string ensemble miniatures mainly aimed at the domestic/student market.  But in fact the series contains some fascinating riches and rarities of which this Howell is one.  The interest is in the slightly subversive side slipping of harmony and rhythm so a simple dainty Minuet.

Here's a link to an image of this Cramer Series front page - I'd love to track down the C Darbishire Jones or the Paul Edmonds scores and parts!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HsK7nIiCHeenz8_ouvVKhuK6t8PTpDdd

For more detailed reading try this Doctoral thesis from 2015;

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/6296/1/Byrne15MA.pdf


EDIT three days later......... Now is this odd or what.  Having written about the Darbishire Jones/Edmonds scores above (with other pieces in mind too) - and having tried to track down the sheet music for YEARS they appeared yesterday in the latest catalogue of an online music seller I use.... and I got them.... all of them!  I know this is a tiny niche market of a tiny niche but I am disproportionately thrilled..........

 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2020, 08:02:43 AM
Right! I have to order this. A victim of my own recommendation. The Moorings was very nice and your comments on the rest of the CD are enough for me. I liked 'Lamia' very much at the Proms and even have two CD recordings of it.

Must get "Lamia". Hyperion also issued her piano concerto but reading descriptions of the work they do not tally with what attracts me to her as a composer.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Augustus on March 12, 2020, 08:29:28 AM
There is a new CD of seven of John Pickard's chamber pieces played by the Nash Ensemble, no less, coming on BIS in May, just announced on the composer's website, here: http://johnpickard.co.uk/2020/nash-ensemble-recording-to-be-issued-in-may/
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on March 12, 2020, 09:41:21 AM
Must get "Lamia". Hyperion also issued her piano concerto but reading descriptions of the work they do not tally with what attracts me to her as a composer.

I agree Lol. I expect that you'll enjoy Lamia.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Dorothy Howell: Violin Sonata, Rosalind for Violin & Piano, Sonata for Piano, Humoresque for Piano, Five Studies for Piano, The Moorings for Violin & Piano and Phantasy for Violin & Piano.

An outstanding in every way CD that I enjoyed immensely. The Violin Sonata, a strong work of flowing lines with a whimsical middle movement (something Howell is good at). Works with violin are a personal interest but the strongest work here is undoubtedly the Piano Sonata - what a piece! Howell never married and although she didn't have any she loved children. The second movement is in the form of a gentle cradle song with a rhythmic pattern - I found this music deeply moving. Jeffrey alerted me to this CD (and composer) through The Moorings, again a whimsical piece with an evocation of water. Yet another Cobbet prize winner, Phantasy is in contrast to The Moorings a more assertive piece. But it is Howell in a melancholy mood I like best.
A fabulous CD which will be back in the tray this evening - can't wait!   
Have just been listening to the CD. A great find!
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on March 17, 2020, 12:52:00 AM
Have just been listening to the CD. A great find!
(http://)

Listened to the whole CD a great deal over the last week or so. The main works, Violin Sonata and Piano sonata are a given. The Moorings, a most attractive piece, is ideally programmed after works for solo piano. The Humoresque, although short is a brilliant keyboard piece which I am growing to appreciate greatly. The Five Studies are worth getting to know too. The one duff work happens to be the shortest (2.51), Rosalind for piano and violin, comes over as a salon piece.
Ravel lurks in the background and breaks cover in the finale of the Piano Sonata.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on March 17, 2020, 03:00:56 AM
Listened to the whole CD a great deal over the last week or so. The main works, Violin Sonata and Piano sonata are a given. The Moorings, a most attractive piece, is ideally programmed after works for solo piano. The Humoresque, although short is a brilliant keyboard piece which I am growing to appreciate greatly. The Five Studies are worth getting to know too. The one duff work happens to be the shortest (2.51), Rosalind for piano and violin, comes over as a salon piece.
Ravel lurks in the background and breaks cover in the finale of the Piano Sonata.
Thanks Lol. The Sonata for Violin and Piano was the other work (apart from The Moorings) which really impressed me very much but I enjoy the whole CD.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roy Bland on March 18, 2020, 08:06:31 PM
Recent release
(https://www.wyastone.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/r/srcd386_inlay.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on March 19, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
Recent release
(https://www.wyastone.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/r/srcd386_inlay.jpg)

Wow! Very interesting, thanks.

This seems to be a new recording, not a reissue. I like the cellist’s name, very appropriate!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on March 19, 2020, 12:49:49 PM
Nigel Stringfellow!

New Scientist in their back page humorous column has many years of discussions of what they call nominative determinism, ie your career is determined by your name, like a medical practitioner I heard of called Dr D'Ath.

 ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roy Bland on March 22, 2020, 06:58:36 PM
IMHO this prokofievan ballet is delightful
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SbcAAOSw3d1TzkQY/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2020, 02:43:10 AM
IMHO this prokofievan ballet is delightful
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SbcAAOSw3d1TzkQY/s-l1600.jpg)
Interesting! Thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on April 06, 2020, 11:29:12 PM
William Wordsworth is trending 6th in my area's daily trends on twitter  ???

...I nearly got excited  8) 

but it's not the right one...  :-[

they're all raving about that poet bloke...  >:D

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on April 07, 2020, 06:18:54 AM
William Wordsworth is trending 6th in my area's daily trends on twitter  ???

...I nearly got excited  8) 

but it's not the right one...  :-[

they're all raving about that poet bloke...  >:D

They are related, Oliver.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: steve ridgway on April 07, 2020, 06:25:50 AM
William Wordsworth is trending 6th in my area's daily trends on twitter  ???

...I nearly got excited  8) 

but it's not the right one...  :-[

they're all raving about that poet bloke...  >:D

Now they have no shopping malls to wander through have people noticed those daffodil thingies?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 07, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
Now they have no shopping malls to wander through have people noticed those daffodil thingies?

"self isolating like a cloud"..... how prophetic!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on April 16, 2020, 04:54:51 AM
Just to bring back on topic after derailing it  0:) I am 100 pages in this one and this is very detailed and informative. Yet to get to the bulk of composers covered but the build up from land ohne musik onwards and its wrong prejudice/real struggle is well analysed.



Took that book piecemeal and eventually finished it last night.

This book is nothing short of fantastic. Timing did help to its appreciation as I started it after my first proper thorough foray into British composers. Knowing the names of the composers beforehand and some of their works already was a distinct advantage.

That book felt thorough and objective in its assessment of the British music while offering a running constructive context, covering for instance :Land ohne musik, oratorios, Music halls, Gilbert & Sullivan, Royal college of Music, all composers and relations thereof (teachers and pupils thereof), artistic evolution through their works, operas, burgeoning orchestras, the conductors (Groves, Boult, Wood, etc), the folk songs influence, the WW1 composers, the role of the BBC, Post-WW2 cultural changes, technical revolutions, advent of the LP and Rock'n'roll, "modern" composers, etc etc...

Think of any British name from the Lyrita or Dutton catalogues and it will most probably in this book, be it as a short mention, a paragraph, a few or a full chapter. I only really felt short changed on Havergal Brian and George Lloyd with only passing mentions but that would be the biased influence of this forum   ;D ...

To name a few beyond the big ones, Alice Mary Smith, Howells, Stanford, Gordon Jacob, Butterworth, Cooke, Berkeley, Worsdworth, Bridge, Foulds, Sainton, Hadley, Moeran are covered here in good chunks... Luytens, Maconchy and Grace Williams get a few pages to themselves as well.

Classical-wise, the book stops with larger sections of Britten and Arnold/Tippett. The writer made the editorial choice to only mention more modern composers like Rawsthorne, Simpson and a few living ones at the end, due to the fact we do not have yet full hindsight on their works and influence, if any, on British classical music as a whole in the future

Tiny complaint : some spelling and grammatical mistakes are scattered in the last 100 pages or so. Something went amiss in the proof-reading.

Overall, a highly recommended read. Even if you are already a very-seasoned listener of Lyrita and the likes, i think you would still find this book of interest in the way it structures and intertwines it all, with bucket loads of anecdotes along the way. I am sure i will plunge again in particular sections now and then when I focus on a particular composer.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 16, 2020, 06:31:46 AM
Took that book piecemeal and eventually finished it last night.

This book is nothing short of fantastic. Timing did help to its appreciation as I started it after my first proper thorough foray into British composers. Knowing the names of the composers beforehand and some of their works already was a distinct advantage.

That book felt thorough and objective in its assessment of the British music while offering a running constructive context, covering for instance :Land ohne musik, oratorios, Music halls, Gilbert & Sullivan, Royal college of Music, all composers and relations thereof (teachers and pupils thereof), artistic evolution through their works, operas, burgeoning orchestras, the conductors (Groves, Boult, Wood, etc), the folk songs influence, the WW1 composers, the role of the BBC, Post-WW2 cultural changes, technical revolutions, advent of the LP and Rock'n'roll, "modern" composers, etc etc...

Think of any British name from the Lyrita or Dutton catalogues and it will most probably in this book, be it as a short mention, a paragraph, a few or a full chapter. I only really felt short changed on Havergal Brian and George Lloyd with only passing mentions but that would be the biased influence of this forum   ;D ...

To name a few beyond the big ones, Alice Mary Smith, Howells, Stanford, Gordon Jacob, Butterworth, Cooke, Berkeley, Worsdworth, Bridge, Foulds, Sainton, Hadley, Moeran are covered here in good chunks... Luytens, Maconchy and Grace Williams get a few pages to themselves as well.

Classical-wise, the book stops with larger sections of Britten and Arnold/Tippett. The writer made the editorial choice to only mention more modern composers like Rawsthorne, Simpson and a few living ones at the end, due to the fact we do not have yet full hindsight on their works and influence, if any, on British classical music as a whole in the future

Tiny complaint : some spelling and grammatical mistakes are scattered in the last 100 pages or so. Something went amiss in the proof-reading.

Overall, a highly recommended read. Even if you are already a very-seasoned listener of Lyrita and the likes, i think you would still find this book of interest in the way it structures and intertwines it all, with bucket loads of anecdotes along the way. I am sure i will plunge again in particular sections now and then when I focus on a particular composer.
What does it say about Sainton Olivier?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on April 16, 2020, 06:51:39 AM
What does it say about Sainton Olivier?

Page 354, just one paragraph:

" Philip Sainton (1891-1967), another largely forgotten composer of essentially romantic works, was the grandson of the violinist Prosper Sainton, who taught Mackenzie at the RAM and led Michael Costa's at Covent Garden in the 1840's. Philip Sainton became principal viola in Henry Wood's Queen's hall Orchestra after the first World War and some of his early works - Sea pictures (1923) and Harlequin and Colombine (1925) - were taken up not only by Henry Wood but also by Hamilton Harty and the Hallé. If remembered at all today, it is for his fine romantic tone poem, The Island (1944), which seems to hark back to McEwen's Galloway-inspired works or for the rich evocation of the sea in his score for John Houston's 1956 film of Moby Dick. "
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on April 16, 2020, 11:01:35 AM
Page 354, just one paragraph:

" Philip Sainton (1891-1967), another largely forgotten composer of essentially romantic works, was the grandson of the violinist Prosper Sainton, who taught Mackenzie at the RAM and led Michael Costa's at Covent Garden in the 1840's. Philip Sainton became principal viola in Henry Wood's Queen's hall Orchestra after the first World War and some of his early works - Sea pictures (1923) and Harlequin and Colombine (1925) - were taken up not only by Henry Wood but also by Hamilton Harty and the Hallé. If remembered at all today, it is for his fine romantic tone poem, The Island (1944), which seems to hark back to McEwen's Galloway-inspired works or for the rich evocation of the sea in his score for John Houston's 1956 film of Moby Dick. "
Thanks so much Olivier. I can understand the comparison with McEwen. I wonder if the 'Sea Pictures' still exists. I certainly agree about 'the rich evocation of the sea' in 'Moby Dick'.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roy Bland on April 26, 2020, 04:21:57 PM
Discovery
https://slippedisc.com/2020/04/found-a-lost-buddhist-opera-by-famed-british-composer/
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 26, 2020, 10:52:22 PM
Discovery
https://slippedisc.com/2020/04/found-a-lost-buddhist-opera-by-famed-british-composer/

got all excited and thought it might be by John Foulds or Holst.  Personally can't get quite as ecstatic over Taverner - and something written in 2005 (albeit still in manuscript) has not exactly been "lost".  I have to say - and its probably simply through ignorance - I've always thought that opera/drama and minimalism are kind of counter intuitive; the former is about a narrative line and "events" and minimalism is about stasis and incremental change.  Nixon in China is about as far as I've managed to get........
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on April 27, 2020, 03:22:13 AM
That's why people need to post a brief explainer or context, rather than just "Discovery". You're fueling the clickbait mentality of the worst parts of the internet, and that's not healthy.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on April 27, 2020, 04:24:58 AM
This looks interesting and I enjoyed his other releases.
(https://toccataclassics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/TOCC_0445-400x400.jpg)

From the site: This second volume of orchestral music by the English composer Steve Elcock (b. 1957), long since resident in France, brings three powerful works all with their origins in earlier pieces. Incubus examines the terrors of nightmare-riven sleep in a vigorous symphonic essay based on a movement from Elcock’s string quartet Night after Night. The impulse behind Haven, an expansive and surprisingly muscular fantasy, is the Sarabanda theme from Bach’s First Partita for solo violin. And Elcock’s Fifth Symphony takes its cue from the most famous of all Fifth Symphonies, re-examining Beethoven’s structural logic in Elcock’s own musical language to produce a volcanic new Fifth, its charge of wild energy husbanded to maximum dramatic effect.

https://toccataclassics.com/product/steve-elcock-orchestral-music-volume-two/ (https://toccataclassics.com/product/steve-elcock-orchestral-music-volume-two/)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 27, 2020, 09:46:29 AM
That's why people need to post a brief explainer or context, rather than just "Discovery". You're fueling the clickbait mentality of the worst parts of the internet, and that's not healthy.

In the wider context of the internet perhaps - but I trust fellow posters here to be linking to things of common interest.  Indeed I was interested to read about the opera in question - its just not an opera that immediately I would seek out to see or hear.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on June 30, 2020, 10:02:05 AM
As he doesn't have a dedicated thread...

Ordered the Lyrita disc of Arthur Benjamin's Symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on June 30, 2020, 10:45:33 AM
As he doesn't have a dedicated thread...

Ordered the Lyrita disc of Arthur Benjamin's Symphony.

Coincidentally I did, too !  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 11:30:24 AM
got all excited and thought it might be by John Foulds or Holst.  Personally can't get quite as ecstatic over Taverner - and something written in 2005 (albeit still in manuscript) has not exactly been "lost".  I have to say - and its probably simply through ignorance - I've always thought that opera/drama and minimalism are kind of counter intuitive; the former is about a narrative line and "events" and minimalism is about stasis and incremental change.  Nixon in China is about as far as I've managed to get........
Yes, I got excited thinking that it might be Foulds as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 11:36:17 AM
As he doesn't have a dedicated thread...

Ordered the Lyrita disc of Arthur Benjamin's Symphony.
An excellent symphony IMO - rather in the spirit of VW's 6th or 4th Symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on June 30, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
An excellent symphony IMO - rather in the spirit of VW's 6th or 4th Symphony.

+1 A gripping work.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: JBS on June 30, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
As he doesn't have a dedicated thread...

Ordered the Lyrita disc of Arthur Benjamin's Symphony.

He does now...
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29978.0.html
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on June 30, 2020, 03:20:22 PM
+1 A gripping work.
+1 fully agree with you both.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on July 01, 2020, 07:52:26 AM
An excellent symphony IMO - rather in the spirit of VW's 6th or 4th Symphony.
+1 A gripping work.
+1 fully agree with you both.
Thanks to your steady evangelizing I succumbed to the d**d Arthur Benjamin symphony one and a half year ago and since then cannot but agree wholeheartedly with all of you.  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2020, 08:35:43 AM
Thanks to your steady evangelizing I succumbed to the d**d Arthur Benjamin symphony one and a half year ago and since then cannot but agree wholeheartedly with all of you.  8)
Yes, but I bet that you don't have three separate recordings of it.  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mirror Image on July 01, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Incidentally, I own the Benjamin Symphony as well (on Lyrita). ;) I probably haven’t even heard it, which shouldn’t surprise anyone here. ::) So music music, so little time...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2020, 10:31:23 AM
Incidentally, I own the Benjamin Symphony as well (on Lyrita). ;) I probably haven’t even heard it, which shouldn’t surprise anyone here. ::) So music music, so little time...
The Lyrita is probably the best. I hope that you enjoy it when you get round to hearing it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Mirror Image on July 01, 2020, 12:58:03 PM
The Lyrita is probably the best. I hope that you enjoy it when you get round to hearing it.

Thanks, Jeffrey. Hopefully over the weekend...or not. :P
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on July 30, 2020, 12:44:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NcOsNKo.jpg)

Alerted to this CD by a poll by the senior reviewers at Musicweb International who were asked to list their favourite recordings. One contributor chose this which did stick out like a sore thumb against other choices.

I make it a policy not to comment on either performers or performance - who am I to judge. But it would be remiss for me not to do so in this case. Jacqueline Roche has a big beefy muscular sound, she, and her pianist partner, are totally committed to the music. This transcends playing the notes as their belief in the music's worth is obvious even to a non-technical person such as myself.

Joseph Holbrooke: Violin Sonata No.3 'Orientale'.
The opening chords for piano only are more akin to 1950's American jazz then an English sonata composed in 1926. A single movement of energy and not only the opening I was struck by the individualistic writing for piano. An excellent opening work.

Sir Henry Walford Davies: Violin Sonata No.2.
One of many composers famous in their lifetime who's reputation dies with them. If this sonata is anything to go by then his fall from grace is an injustice. I won't spoil the surprise of the second movement but a smile is guaranteed - I thought only Dvorak or Mozart would attempt similar.

Cyril Rootham: Violin Sonata.
A farm gate makes it's first appearance. The first two works are based on the central European tradition, this is the world of RVW. The Adagio is quite beautiful. 

Arthur Benjamin: Sonatina for Cello and Piano.
All change. Not only instrument but pace and performers. Benjamin has enjoyed plenty of mentions on the forum recently so a composer to be reckoned with. His Sonatina unlike the other works on the disc, is meditative. He is saying as much, if not more but in a simpler way. Many composers say profound things under the guise of a descriptive title of non-serious music. Mozart again!

A wonderful CD.       
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2020, 08:56:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NcOsNKo.jpg)

Alerted to this CD by a poll by the senior reviewers at Musicweb International who were asked to list their favourite recordings. One contributor chose this which did stick out like a sore thumb against other choices.

I make it a policy not to comment on either performers or performance - who am I to judge. But it would be remiss for me not to do so in this case. Jacqueline Roche has a big beefy muscular sound, she, and her pianist partner, are totally committed to the music. This transcends playing the notes as their belief in the music's worth is obvious even to a non-technical person such as myself.

Joseph Holbrooke: Violin Sonata No.3 'Orientale'.
The opening chords for piano only are more akin to 1950's American jazz then an English sonata composed in 1926. A single movement of energy and not only the opening I was struck by the individualistic writing for piano. An excellent opening work.

Sir Henry Walford Davies: Violin Sonata No.2.
One of many composers famous in their lifetime who's reputation dies with them. If this sonata is anything to go by then his fall from grace is an injustice. I won't spoil the surprise of the second movement but a smile is guaranteed - I thought only Dvorak or Mozart would attempt similar.

Cyril Rootham: Violin Sonata.
A farm gate makes it's first appearance. The first two works are based on the central European tradition, this is the world of RVW. The Adagio is quite beautiful. 

Arthur Benjamin: Sonatina for Cello and Piano.
All change. Not only instrument but pace and performers. Benjamin has enjoyed plenty of mentions on the forum recently so a composer to be reckoned with. His Sonatina unlike the other works on the disc, is meditative. He is saying as much, if not more but in a simpler way. Many composers say profound things under the guise of a descriptive title of non-serious music. Mozart again!

A wonderful CD.     
Great review Lol. I might even have this CD somewhere  ::)
The only thing I know about Walford Davies is that he wrote the 'RAF March Past'! Having said that I seem to recall listening to his 'Everyman' after reading positive reviews but it was not my cup of tea.
I've always tended to enjoy Holbrooke's chamber music more than his orchestral works. I recall a very nice Marco Polo release of it. I think that it was used as background music to a Naxos audio-book of 'The Lady of the Camelias' which alerted me to it. Benjamin and Rootham appeal much more to me. I consider Benjamin's Symphony to be a great work as I do the two Rootham symphonies and an excellent EMI CD of his shorter orchestral and choral works. It was one of the last LPs I bought. Do you know Rootham's music? Great cover image as well.
EDIT: Amazon UK tells me that I ordered this CD in 2010. Now I have to find it!  ::)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 30, 2020, 10:19:56 PM
Great review Lol. I might even have this CD somewhere  ::)
The only thing I know about Walford Davies is that he wrote the 'RAF March Past'! Having said that I seem to recall listening to his 'Everyman' after reading positive reviews but it was not my cup of tea.
I've always tended to enjoy Holbrooke's chamber music more than his orchestral works. I recall a very nice Marco Polo release of it. I think that it was used as background music to a Naxos audio-book of 'The Lady of the Camelias' which alerted me to it. Benjamin and Rootham appeal much more to me. I consider Benjamin's Symphony to be a great work as I do the two Rootham symphonies and an excellent EMI CD of his shorter orchestral and choral works. It was one of the last LPs I bought. Do you know Rootham's music? Great cover image as well.
EDIT: Amazon UK tells me that I ordered this CD in 2010. Now I have to find it!  ::)

Walford Davies wrote the beautiful hymn - "God be in my head"
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2020, 01:05:54 AM
Walford Davies wrote the beautiful hymn - "God be in my head"
Thanks
Here it is:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UCik9Us_K2A
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on July 31, 2020, 06:30:07 AM
Great review Lol. I might even have this CD somewhere  ::)
The only thing I know about Walford Davies is that he wrote the 'RAF March Past'! Having said that I seem to recall listening to his 'Everyman' after reading positive reviews but it was not my cup of tea.
I've always tended to enjoy Holbrooke's chamber music more than his orchestral works. I recall a very nice Marco Polo release of it. I think that it was used as background music to a Naxos audio-book of 'The Lady of the Camelias' which alerted me to it. Benjamin and Rootham appeal much more to me. I consider Benjamin's Symphony to be a great work as I do the two Rootham symphonies and an excellent EMI CD of his shorter orchestral and choral works. It was one of the last LPs I bought. Do you know Rootham's music? Great cover image as well.
EDIT: Amazon UK tells me that I ordered this CD in 2010. Now I have to find it!  ::)

Thanks, Jeffrey. Too many CDs is an affliction without known cure! I do sympathise, but maybe my sympathy should be directed at your good wife. There are hits and misses in the what I think the "Championship" of British composers - the "Premier league" includes Elgar, RVW, Walton et al. As I like chamber music the CD label Dutton has been a treasure trove. Not all discs I have purchased have been great but all of interest. A good proportion are very good indeed and big kudos to Dutton as without them this music would not see the light of day. One of the above was a first recording and the other a first performance. I recall your agreement on the excellence of the Dorothy Howell Dutton recording of chamber works. There are many more and Dutton, a digital label equivalent of analogue Lyrita in my view, provides an endlessly interesting trawl of British and historical music. 

I have on LP the Rootham 1st Symphony C/W "The Birds of Rhiannon by Holbrooke. It is so long since I played it my memory of the piece is sketchy. I seem to recall a forceful work but I need to revisit both.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2020, 10:51:32 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. Too many CDs is an affliction without known cure! I do sympathise, but maybe my sympathy should be directed at your good wife. There are hits and misses in the what I think the "Championship" of British composers - the "Premier league" includes Elgar, RVW, Walton et al. As I like chamber music the CD label Dutton has been a treasure trove. Not all discs I have purchased have been great but all of interest. A good proportion are very good indeed and big kudos to Dutton as without them this music would not see the light of day. One of the above was a first recording and the other a first performance. I recall your agreement on the excellence of the Dorothy Howell Dutton recording of chamber works. There are many more and Dutton, a digital label equivalent of analogue Lyrita in my view, provides an endlessly interesting trawl of British and historical music. 

I have on LP the Rootham 1st Symphony C/W "The Birds of Rhiannon by Holbrooke. It is so long since I played it my memory of the piece is sketchy. I seem to recall a forceful work but I need to revisit both.
Dorothy Howell and Rubbra's first SQ have been great Dutton discoveries for me. I shall be eternally grateful to them for introducing me to the symphonies of Stanley Bate, Richard Arnell and the orchestral music of Erik Chisholm. You have to hear Rootham's Second Symphony Lol. Completed a few days before Rootham died I find it very moving. He had to dictate the final pages to his wife, son and pupil Patrick (The Trees So High) Hadley:
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on July 31, 2020, 11:07:54 PM
Dorothy Howell and Rubbra's first SQ have been great Dutton discoveries for me. I shall be eternally grateful to them for introducing me to the symphonies of Stanley Bate, Richard Arnell and the orchestral music of Erik Chisholm. You have to hear Rootham's Second Symphony Lol. Completed a few days before Rootham died I find it very moving. He had to dictate the final pages to his wife, son and pupil Patrick (The Trees So High) Hadley:
(http://)

Yes, the first two you mention are excellent. I have the Bate(4) and Arnell (1/6/7) but don't have 3rd which I suspect is the best. The "Nottingham" by Alan Bush is a favourite.
Thanks for Rootham tip which sounds interesting.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2020, 11:47:32 PM
Yes, the first two you mention are excellent. I have the Bate(4) and Arnell (1/6/7) but don't have 3rd which I suspect is the best. The "Nottingham" by Alan Bush is a favourite.
Thanks for Rootham tip which sounds interesting.
I find the end of Rootham's Symphony No.2 almost unbearably moving especially in view of the circumstances in which it was written. Oh yes Lol, you have to hear Bate Symphony No.3. That CD is also terrific as it includes Erik Chisholm's masterpiece the 'Pictures from Dante'. Bate's Third Symphony should appeal to anyone who likes symphonies 4 and 6 by VW and the Symphony by Arthur Benjamin. The other Duttons featuring Bate's Viola Concerto and Piano Concerto are also very enjoyable. Bate deserves to be much better known and evidently had a difficult and rather sad life. The Arnell Symphony No.3 is his masterpiece although I'm very fond of his 5th Symphony.  I think that you've missed Arnell's two best symphonies (3 and 5) 3 is an epic - composed during the Blitz, in which Arnell's mother was killed. No.5 is a lovely tribute to his father.. Totally agree with you about the Bush 'Nottingham' Symphony. I prefer the ClassicO recording to the Dutton:
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on August 01, 2020, 05:41:16 AM
I find the end of Rootham's Symphony No.2 almost unbearably moving especially in view of the circumstances in which it was written. Oh yes Lol, you have to hear Bate Symphony No.3. That CD is also terrific as it includes Erik Chisholm's masterpiece the 'Pictures from Dante'. Bate's Third Symphony should appeal to anyone who likes symphonies 4 and 6 by VW and the Symphony by Arthur Benjamin. The other Duttons featuring Bate's Viola Concerto and Piano Concerto are also very enjoyable. Bate deserves to be much better known and evidently had a difficult and rather sad life. The Arnell Symphony No.3 is his masterpiece although I'm very fond of his 5th Symphony.  I think that you've missed Arnell's two best symphonies (3 and 5) 3 is an epic - composed during the Blitz, in which Arnell's mother was killed. No.5 is a lovely tribute to his father.. Totally agree with you about the Bush 'Nottingham' Symphony. I prefer the ClassicO recording to the Dutton:
(http://)
+1, an excellent disc.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 01, 2020, 07:15:03 AM
I find the end of Rootham's Symphony No.2 almost unbearably moving especially in view of the circumstances in which it was written. Oh yes Lol, you have to hear Bate Symphony No.3. That CD is also terrific as it includes Erik Chisholm's masterpiece the 'Pictures from Dante'. Bate's Third Symphony should appeal to anyone who likes symphonies 4 and 6 by VW and the Symphony by Arthur Benjamin. The other Duttons featuring Bate's Viola Concerto and Piano Concerto are also very enjoyable. Bate deserves to be much better known and evidently had a difficult and rather sad life. The Arnell Symphony No.3 is his masterpiece although I'm very fond of his 5th Symphony. I think that you've missed Arnell's two best symphonies (3 and 5) 3 is an epic - composed during the Blitz, in which Arnell's mother was killed. No.5 is a lovely tribute to his father.. Totally agree with you about the Bush 'Nottingham' Symphony. I prefer the ClassicO recording to the Dutton:
(http://)

Story of my life, Jeffrey. :( The Arnell 6th comes with a health warning - Please be aware that at the beginning of and during Symphony No.6 there is the sound of an anvil being struck, which is very loud. Please be careful not to listen to this work at too loud a level. I am in the habit of listening at a high level and my speakers are large so passed on this symphony. I recall Bis issuing a similar warning in the early days of CD but forgotten which work.

Funnily enough I was looking through available Dutton issues on eBay last night and came across Chisholm, a name new to me. I will go back to check which work, perhaps you will know it.

Edit: Bate 3 on order.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: krummholz on August 01, 2020, 08:10:54 AM
Story of my life, Jeffrey. :( The Arnell 6th comes with a health warning - Please be aware that at the beginning of and during Symphony No.6 there is the sound of an anvil being struck, which is very loud. Please be careful not to listen to this work at too loud a level. I am in the habit of listening at a high level and my speakers are large so passed on this symphony. I recall Bis issuing a similar warning in the early days of CD but forgotten which work.

I could easily see a warning like that for Mahler's 6th...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 01, 2020, 01:08:12 PM
Story of my life, Jeffrey. :( The Arnell 6th comes with a health warning - Please be aware that at the beginning of and during Symphony No.6 there is the sound of an anvil being struck, which is very loud. Please be careful not to listen to this work at too loud a level. I am in the habit of listening at a high level and my speakers are large so passed on this symphony. I recall Bis issuing a similar warning in the early days of CD but forgotten which work.

Funnily enough I was looking through available Dutton issues on eBay last night and came across Chisholm, a name new to me. I will go back to check which work, perhaps you will know it.

Edit: Bate 3 on order.
Excellent about the Bate Lol. I'm sure you'll enjoy the whole CD for the other works as well. The other Chisholm that I have on Dutton is the Symphony No.2,'Ossian' which I like very much. Some of his concertos have been recorded as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 01, 2020, 11:06:39 PM
Excellent about the Bate Lol. I'm sure you'll enjoy the whole CD for the other works as well. The other Chisholm that I have on Dutton is the Symphony No.2,'Ossian' which I like very much. Some of his concertos have been recorded as well.

I recall from my childhood he was pretty adept on the trombone. A regular on "The Billy Cotton Band Show" if I remember correctly. Those were the days! (I know not the same one but the name has stuck for some reason  :D)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 01, 2020, 11:23:01 PM
I recall from my childhood he was pretty adept on the trombone. A regular on "The Billy Cotton Band Show" if I remember correctly. Those were the days! (I know not the same one but the name has stuck for some reason  :D)

Haha. I recall wondering if Venables, the composer was the same one who used to play for Chelsea and managed England.  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 02, 2020, 02:22:33 AM
Jeffrey,

Did you find your Bates CD?

Do you gents remember when (was it Telarc?) issued their cannon warning on their 1812 Overture CD back in the early days of CDs?   ;D

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on August 02, 2020, 03:58:12 AM
Jeffrey,

Did you find your Bates CD?

Do you gents remember when (was it Telarc?) issued their cannon warning on their 1812 Overture CD back in the early days of CDs?   ;D

PD

LOL, I remember those warnings.  Sort of just a marketing ploy like "Warning: This CD is so realistic, your neighbors might think you are getting shot" type of thing.  :P ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 02, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Jeffrey,

Did you find your Bates CD?

Do you gents remember when (was it Telarc?) issued their cannon warning on their 1812 Overture CD back in the early days of CDs?   ;D

PD
PD. Thanks for asking. I never lost the Bate CD (I don't lose them all you know!  ;D). I think it was the Dutton, Rootham, Holbrooke etc CD that I couldn't find and no it hasn't turned up yet.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 02, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
Got around to listening Bate's 4th Symphony. Obviously cannot be judged on a single work but my impression is of a composer bursting with ideas but maybe lacking discipline. Never dull, the work flies by, a most enjoyable and eventful ride and I need to listen again to see if all the dots join up as a symphony. I'm sure they do.
Simon Heffer presented on BBC radio "The Lonely Death of Stanley Bate" highly recommended and can be heard here https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq
What is it with 20th Century British composers and booze?   

 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 02, 2020, 06:29:11 PM
I felt in the mood for a list today so I wanted to write a list of works named after English counties or obviously depicting one particular county. This is how far I got, I'm sure people will be able to add further works.

A Somerset Rhapsody (Holst)
Fantasia on Hampshire Folk Songs (Holst)
Norfolk Rhapsodies 1-3 (3 lost) (VW)
In the Fen Country (= Cambridgeshire as I don't think VW visited the Lincolnshire Fens)
Fantasia on Sussex Folk Songs (for cello and orchestra) (VW)
A London Symphony (VW)
Gloucestershire Rhapsody (Gurney)
A Severn Rhapsody (=Gloucestershire as that's where Finzi was living when he wrote it)
Berkshire Idyll (Gardiner)
Suffolk Suite (Carwithen)

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 02, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
I felt in the mood for a list today so I wanted to write a list of works named after English counties or obviously depicting one particular county. This is how far I got, I'm sure people will be able to add further works.

A Somerset Rhapsody (Holst)
Fantasia on Hampshire Folk Songs (Holst)
Norfolk Rhapsodies 1-3 (3 lost) (VW)
In the Fen Country (= Cambridgeshire as I don't think VW visited the Lincolnshire Fens)
Fantasia on Sussex Folk Songs (for cello and orchestra) (VW)
A London Symphony (VW)
Gloucestershire Rhapsody (Gurney)
A Severn Rhapsody (=Gloucestershire as that's where Finzi was living when he wrote it)
Berkshire Idyll (Gardiner)
Suffolk Suite (Carwithen)
Bax: Maytime in Sussex
Elgar: Severn Suite
Hadley: Kinder Scout (Derbyshire Peak District)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 02, 2020, 10:25:57 PM
Bax: Maytime in Sussex
Elgar: Severn Suite
Hadley: Kinder Scout (Derbyshire Peak District)

Montague Phillips:  A Surrey Suite
Grainger: Lincolnshire Posy
Howells:  In Glocestershire
Arthur Wood:  My Native Heath (Yorkshire)
RVW:  On Wenlock Edge
Buterrworth:  Shropshire Lad songs/rhapsody
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 03, 2020, 12:00:30 AM
I felt in the mood for a list today so I wanted to write a list of works named after English counties or obviously depicting one particular county. This is how far I got, I'm sure people will be able to add further works.

Hi Calypto,

Oates posted a substantial list of such geographical British pieces a few months back (not just based on counties though). Here is his post below. you might find it of interest.


Much music is inspired by or named in tribute to specific geographic or topographic locations. This has been a particular characteristic of British classical music in the 20th Century. For no particular reason other than that I was intrigued to see how much music by British (and some Commonwealth) composers utilised an actual place name in its title, I put together a list. (It has turned out longer than I expected, so apologies!) 

This list reflects essentially orchestral music (or in some cases a chamber, brass or choral work) which references a specific geographic or topographic location in the British Isles and Ireland in its title. I’m aware that there have been many more songs and solo piano works that have been titled in this way but for the sake of keeping the list manageable these are omitted (unless there is an orchestral version as well). I am also aware of the many orchestral / chamber pieces that have been inspired or linked with geographic or topographic locations in the British Isles but which are not reflected in the title, and also omitted from this list.) As will be seen, the line between ‘serious’ composition and ‘light’ music is here somewhat blurred.

I'm sure that others can think of items I've missed.
 
Alan Abbott - London Fragments
Frederick Aldington - Bracebridge Hall
William Alwyn - Suite Of Scottish Dances, The Innumerable Dance (An English Overture), Prelude – Blackdown, A Manchester Suite
Charles Ancliffe - Irish Whispers
Alistair Anderson - On Cheviot Hills
John Ansell - Plymouth Hoe, Innisfail, Three Irish Pictures, Three Irish Dances
Violet Archer - Britannia - A Joyful Overture
Richard Arnell - Dagenham Symphony
Malcolm Arnold - The Padstow Lifeboat, A Manx Suite, English Dances, Irish Dances, Welsh Dances, Scottish Dances, Cornish Dances, A Sussex Overture, Peterloo Overture, Fairfield Overture, Attleborough, Kingston Fanfare, Richmond Fanfare
Frank Aston - Bedale Hunt
Edgar Bainton - English Idyll
Christopher Ball - Scarborough Fair, Brigg Fair, Bonnie Dundee, In The Yorkshire Dales, From The Hebrides, Irish Suite
Eric Ball - A Kensington Concerto, Fowey River Suite, St. Michael's Mount, Devon Fantasy, Scottish Festival Overture, Rosslyn, Welsh Festival, Cornish Festival
Don Banks - Five North Country folksongs
Granville Bantock - A Hebridian Symphony, A Scottish Rhapsody, Scenes from the Scottish Highlands, English Scenes, Old English Suite, Caristiona - A Hebridean Seascape
Bernard Barrell - Suffolk Celebration Overture
Frank Baron - Bishop’s Rock
Patrick Barrow – Loxwood Suite
Hubert Bath - Cornish Rhapsody, Atlantic Charter, Devonia
Arnold Bax - Tintagel, Morning Song (Maytime in Sussex), London Pageant
David Bedford - Places in Devon
John Bell – Sunny Southport
Richard Rodney Bennett - Farnham Festival Overture, Chelsea Reach,
David Bertie - Suffolk Punch
Maurice Besly – Chelsea China
Frederick Beyer – Royal Windsor, Farnham Town
Ronald Binge - Scottish Rhapsody, Thames Rhapsody, Old London
William Blezard - Battersea Park Suite
Arthur Bliss – Kenilworth, Farnaby Tower Hill, Edinburgh Overture, Fanfare Prelude for Orchestra: Macclesfield, Lancaster Prelude,  Miracle in the Gorbals
Carey Blyton - Suite: Cinque Port
Rutland Boughton - Aylesbury Games, The Chilterns
York Bowen – Somerset Suite
Fredrick Boyce - Farnham Town, Royal Windsor
Brian Boydell - Shielmartin Suite (Shulmartin Suite?)
Ina Boyle - Glencree Symphony No. 1
Rory Boyle - Suite of English Folk Songs
Sam Braithwaite - Night By Dalegarth Bridge
Havergal Brian - English Suites
Leslie Bridgewater - Bromsgrove Fair
Benjamin Britten – Plymouth Town
Brian Brockless - English Elegy
Alan Bullard - Galloway Sketches, Colnford Suite, Colchester Suite
Antony Burgess – A Manchester Overture, Glasgow Overture
Rex Burrows - Hampton Court
Alan Bush - Nottingham Symphony, English Suite, Liverpool Overture, Pavane for the Castleton Queen
Geoffrey Bush – Guildford Symphony
Arthur Butterworth - A Moorland Symphony, A Dales Suite (Embsay), An Exmoor Suite, The Quiet Tarn (Malham), Mancunian Way, Kendal Clock, Fantasy on the Kendal Chimes, Solent Forts, Reverie (Farewell Manchester) Mancunians, Sligo Fair
David Butterworth - Lochinvar, Seven Hills March, Dances for Dalkeith, Kettlebury Hill, Ewell Court Suite
George Butterworth – Two English Idylls, A Shropshire Lad
Jack Byfield - A Cornish Pastiche
John Cameron - Cumbria
Adam Carse - Winton Suite, Three English Pictures
Doreen Carwithen – East Anglian Holiday, A Suffolk Suite, Bishop Rock
Frank Chacksfield - Innishannon Serenade
Newell Chase - Midnight in Mayfair
Robert Chignall - Henley Serenade
Montague Cleeve - Whitgift Suite
Hubert Clifford - A Kentish Suite, Shanagolden, Cowes Suite, Greenwich Pageant Of The River
Carroll Coates - London By Night   
Eric Coates - London Suite, Men Of Trent March, London Again Suite, London Calling March,  London Everyday Suite, London Bridge March, South Wales and West, From Meadow to Mayfair Suite, Holborn March, On the Mall
Gerald Cockshott – Maddermarket Suuite
Cecil Coles - Suite from the Scottish Highlands
Anthony Collins – Eire Suite, Romney Marsh
Harold Collins - Bishop’s Rock
Walter Collins - Four Cornish Dances, Cumberland Green
Francis M Collinson - Hampshire
William Collisson - Irish Suite
Arnold Cooke – York Suite, Repton Fantasia
Grenville Cooke – High Marley Rest
Gaze Cooper - Newton, Lincs
Peter Cork - Alkham Valley, A Man Of Kent, Cockney Dance in Stepney, Romney Marsh, Walking Out In Wapping, Surrey Concerto, London in the Thirties
Ronald Corp - Guernsey Postcards
David Cox – London Calling
William Creser - Old English Suite
Peter Crossley-Holland – Albion Suite
Adrian Cruft – Stratford Music, Stilestone Suite
David Curry - Irish Pastorale
Matthew Curtis - Irish Lullaby, Striding Edge
Frederic Curzon - In Sherwood Suite
Gordon Dale - Brommy Hill Suite, A Midland Concerto, A Tewkesbury Suite
Horace Dann- Worcester Beacon
Marie Dare - Three Highland Sketches, Five Scottish Airs
Cedric Thorpe Davie – The Royal Mile
John Davies - Summer's Eve at Cookham Lock, The Londonderry Air
Henry Walford Davies - Big Ben Looks On
Frederick Delius – Brigg Fair, North Country Sketches
Harry Dexter - Scottish Street Dances,
Robert Docker - London Rhapsody
Peter Dodd - Irish Idyll
Marcus Dods – Highland Fancy
Andrew Downes - In the Cotswolds
Kenneth Downie – St. Austell Suite, Bridgwater Intrada, Princethorpe Variations
David Dubery - Pinch Belly Park
Ronald Duncan - Three Scottish Sketches, Highland Rhapsody
Trevor Duncan - St Boniface Down
Thomas Dunhill - The Chiddingfold Suite, Suite: In Rural England
Brian Easdale – Kew Gardens
Stuart Edwards - English Country Scenes
Edward Elgar – A Severn Suite, Cockaigne (In London Town)
David Ellis – Vale Royal Suite
Vivian Ellis - Muse In Mayfair
Albert Elms – Wembley Way
Montague Ewing - Over the Scottish Hills, An Irish Picnic
David Fanshawe - Fantasy On Dover Castle
Alexander Faris - Sketches of Regency England
Alan Farnie - A Royal Mile Suite, Fauldhouse Miners March
Robert Farnon - Goodwood Galop, Westminster Waltz, The Lincolnshire Poacher
W Merrick Farrar - Stranger in London
Eric Fenby – Rossini On Ilkla Moor – Overture
Paul Fenoulhet - Suffolk Sketches
Robin Field - Suite: Cumbria, Island Sketches: The Sound of Mull
Gerald Finzi – A Severn Rhapsody
Roger Fiske - Midsummer Hill
Christopher Le Fleming - London River, Sutton Valence, Pilford Suite
John Foulds – April-England
John Fox - A Surrey Rhapsody, Scarborough Fair
Norman Fulton – Scottish Suite
Nicholas Gatty - Haslemere Suite
Balfour Gardiner – A Berkshire Idyll
John Gardner – A Scots Overture, Irish Suite
Henry Ernest Geehl - Thames Valley, On the Cornish Coast
Edward German - Welsh Rhapsody, Norwich Symphony
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs - Westmorland Symphony, Essex Suite, The Yorkshire Dales,
Chris Gibbs - Moon Over Downham, Teatime In Chipping, In The Western Dales (originally A Ludlow Suite - Dentdale Air, Barbondale Air, Ribblesdale Air), Forest Of Bowland Suite, Lakeland Summer, Cumbrian Overture, Flookborough Blues
Ruth Gipps – Kensington Garden Suite, Cringlemire Garden, Wealden Suite
Gareth Glyn – Anglesey Sketches, A Snowdon Overture, Snowdonia
Frank Gomez - Climbing the Abbey Steps at Whitby
Arthur Goodchild - Four Yorkshire Miniatures
Ron Goodwin - City Of Lincoln March, London Serenade
David Gow - Wessex Heights Symphony
Ian Gowly - Song of the Clyde
Percy Grainger - A Lincolnshire Posy, Irish Tune From County Derry, Ye Banks and Braes O' Bonnie Doon, English Dance
Emile Grimshaw - Lancashire Clogs
Malcolm Grimston – Nocturne: Putney and the River
Inglis Gundry - The Logan Rock
Christopher Gunning – Yorkshire Glory, On Hungerford Bridge
Ivor Gurney - A Gloucestershire Rhapsody
Patrick Hadley – Kinder Scout
Alfred Hale – Cornish Suite
Iain Hamilton - Bartholomew Fair Overture, London: Kaleidoscope, Scottish Dances
David Harries – Cornish Overture
Pamela Harrison - An Evocation of the Weald
Julius Harrison - Worcestershire Suite, Bredon Hill, Widdicombe Fair, Cornish Holiday Sketches, Severn County
Hamilton Harty - Londonderry Air, In Ireland, An Irish Symphony, Variations on a Dublin Air, Irish Fantasy
Colin Hand - South Bank Sketches, Fenland Suite
Ronald Hanmer - Heritage of England
Fred Hartley - The Ball at Aberfeldy, Hampden Road March, The Dublin Express, The Fair Maid of Moray,  Highland Lullaby
Patrick Hawes - Fair Albion, Highgrove Suite, How Hill
Anthony Hedges – Fiddler’s Green, A Cleveland Overture, West Oxford Walks, Overture – Heigham Sound, Scenes from the Humber, Kingston Sketches, An Ayrshire Serenade
George William Hespe – Kinder Scout,  A Welsh Fantasy
Nigel Hess - East Coast Pictures
Charles Hoby - A Scottish Rhapsody, Lure of the Highlands
Alun Hoddinott - Two Welsh Nursery Tunes, Welsh Dances
Joseph Holbrooke - Wild Wales, Suite on Folksongs of Great Britain, Cambrian Ballades
Theodore Holland - Ellingham Marshes
John Holliday - May Day at Helston, Zennor, Skipton Rig
Henry Holmes - Cumberland Symphony
Gustav Holst – A Cotswolds Symphony, A Somerset Rhapsody, St Paul's Suite, Hammersmith, Egdon Heath, A Hampshire Suite
H. Hope – South Down March
Peter Hope - Ring Of Kerry, Irish Legend
James Howe - Pentland Hills
Herbert Howells – Paradise Rondel, Winchester Service, Coventry Antiphon
Margaret Hubicki - Scottish and Irish Airs, Sussex Pictures
Llifon Hughes-Jones - Langdon Overture
Ian Hurst – Windermere Idyll, The Bells of Somerset, Brighton Sea-Step (South Pier Sea-Step).
John Ireland – Mai-Dun, A Downland Suite, A London Overture, Sarnia
Christopher Irvin – Arden Airs, Tales from Hebden Wood
Herbert Ivey - Glimpses of London
Gordon Jacob – Overture - Clogher Head, Alexandra Palace, Bonnie Dundee, Denbigh Suite, Essex Overture, Essex Suite, Hertford Suite, Lincolnshire Poacher, New Forest Suite, Northumbrian Overture, Redbridge Variations, Fantasia on Scottish Tunes, Swansea Town, Tattenham Corner, York Symphony, English Landscape, Havant Suite
John Jefferys - Bickleigh Idyll
Cyril Jenkins - Welsh Fantasia,
David Jennings – The Lincoln Imp
Eleanor Johnson - A Legend of Erin
Laurie Johnson - Castles of Britain
Stewart Johnson - A Northumbrian Suite
Maurice Johnston - Tarn Hows: A Cumbrian Rhapsody, Pennine Way, County Palatine, Watling Street,
Douglas Jones - Ayton Airs
Edward Jones - The Siege of York
Archibald Joyce - Brighton Hike
Thomas Keighley - A Northern Rhapsody
Bryan Kelly – Four Realms Suite, Globe Theatre Suite, Edinburgh Dances, Oxford Scherzo, Irish Dances
Majory Kennedy-Fraser - Hebridean Suite
Albert William Ketèlbey - Mayfair Cinderella   
Reginald King - In the Chilterns
Ian Laidler - Mendip Suite,
D. Lancaster - Bridge on the River Wharfe
Philip Lane – Prestbury Park, Cotswold Dances, London Salute, The Bluebell Line
Gordon Langford – Spirit of London, Hebridean Hoedown, West Country Fantasy, North Country Fantasy
Otto Langley - The Emerald Isle, From the Highlands and Sounds for England
John F. Larchet -  Irish Airs
Ernest Markham Lee - Moorland & Torland, West Country Suite, Round the North Sea, Rivers of Devon Suite
Paul Lewis - Norfolk Suite, Festival of London March, An English Overture, Sussex Symphony Overture, Norfolk Idyll
Malcolm Lipkin - Clifford's Tower
George Lloyd - The Forest of Arden, Royal Parks, English Heritage
Hermann Frederic Löhr - West Countree, West Country Dances
John Longmire - Green Park
Jon Lord – A Durham Concerto
Raymond Loughborough - Jevington Suite
David Lyon - Farnham Suite, A Wiltshire Elegy
Alexander Mackenzie - Pibroch Suite, Scottish Rhapsodies, Britannia, London Day By Day
Desmond Macmahon - A Northumbrian Suite
Hamish McCunn - The Dowie Dens o’ Yarrow, Highland Memories
Bill McGillivray - Streets of London
Bill McGuffie - Highland Hue, Scottish Ayr
Elizabeth Maconchy - An Essex Overture, Overture Proud Thames
John Blackwood McEwen - A Solway Symphony, Three Border Ballads (Grey Galloway), Highland Dances, Scottish Rhapsody
George McIlwham - For Highland Gathering
Gary McNichol - Brodsworth Suite
John Manduell - Sunderland Point Overture
Hastings Mann – Westward Ho!
Albert Marlind – Piccadilly Prelude
David Matthews – Norfolk March
Muir Mathieson - From the Grampians
Peter Maxwell-Davies – An Orkney Wedding with Sunrise, A Voyage to Fair Isle, Strathclyde Concertos
Billy Mayerl – Sennen Cove
Leslie Meurant - From Eamont To Eden
Bruce Montgomery – Scottish Aubade, Scottish Lullaby
William Mooney - Cromer Suite, Six Scottish Dances, Perthshire Echoes Suite
Reginald Morgan - Cotswold Melody
Angela Morley - Rotten Row
William Moyle - Cornish Floral Dance, Restormel, Cornish Rock, Cornish Cavalier
Herbert Murrill - Caprice on Two Norfolk Folk Tunes
Malcolm Nabarro - Lincoln Green: A Fantasia on Lincolnshire Folk Songs
Paul Neville - Shrewsbury Fair
Roy Newsome - Tredegar Castle, Westward Suite, Two London Sketches
David J. Newstone - The Humber Bridge Suite
Harold Noble - Tintern Abbey
Charles O’Brien – Scottish Scenes, Ellangowan
Walton O'Donnell - The Irish Maiden, Two Irish Tone Sketches
Norman O'Neill - Variations on an Irish Air
Buxton Orr – Caledonian Suite
Charles Wilfred Orr - A Cotswold Hill Tune
Charles Parry – English Suite
Ian Parrott – Westerham, Fanfare Overture for a Somerset Festival, The Coast of Ceredigion
Adam Pounds - Norfolk Seascape, A Northern Picture
Montague Phillips - A Surrey Suite, Hampton Court
Albert Peace - Fantasia on Scottish Melodies
Thomas Pitfield – Overture On North-Country Tunes
Kenneth Platts - Manx Dances, Sussex Overture
T.J. Powell - Snowdon Fantasy, Carnarvon Castle, Castell Coch, Cardiff Castle, Castell Caerffili, Salute to Wales
Richard Maldwyn Price - Welsh Fantasy, Cambrian Suite, An English Overture, Gwalia Suite
Roger Quilter - Three English Dances
Felton Rapley - Down the Solent, A Highland Vision, An Irish Legend
Harold Rawlinson – In A Kentish Garden
Alan Rawsthorne – Overture for Farnham
Austen Rayner – Eboracum
Reginald Redman - Marston Court, West Country Suite, Rhapsody on Somerset Folk Songs
Alfred Reynolds – The Sirens Of Southend
Clive Richardson – London Fantasia
Cyril Rootham - In The Lake Country
David Rose - Piccadilly   
Alec Rowley - Down Channel: Nautical Overture, From a Devon Headland
Edmund Rubbra - Plymouth
Philip Sainton – Stonehenge
Max Saunders - A Cotswold Pastoral
Cyril Scott – Cornish Boat Song, Irish Serenade
Derek Scott – Salisbury Plain
George Scott-Wood – London Caprice
Humphrey Searle - Highland Reel
Charles Shadwell – Lulworth Cove, Morning at Bibury
Evelyn Sharpe – Devon Suite, Hampshire Suite, Essex Suite
Robert Sherlaw-Johnson - Northumbrian Symphony
Michael Short – Caledonia, Kentish Fire, Stonehenge
Ivor Slaney - Land’s End to John O’Groats
Gavin Smith – North-East Fantasy
Peter Smith - Willowbrook Suite
Harry Somers - North Country
Arthur Somervell - Piano Concerto (Highland)
Susan Spain-Dunk - Kentish Downs, Weald of Kent, Andred's Weald, Stonehenge, Kentonia
Philip Sparke - A Tameside Overture, A London Overture, A Malvern Suite
Philip Spratley - A Helpson Fantasia
Anthony Spurgin - West Country Special
Ray Steadman-Allen - On Ratcliff Highway
Jack Strachey - Shaftesbury Avenue, Eros In Piccadilly
Allan Street - Doon Valley, Nottingham Town
Graeme Stuart - Thames Castles
L. Sturdy - Old Kensington
Herbert Sumsion – Lerryn, In the Cotswolds
Giles Swayne - County Down
Frank Tapp - Beachy Head Overture, Overture Metropolis, English Landmarks Suite
Arthur Taylor – Sandringham Waltz
Donald Thorne - Lights of London
Niso Ticciati - An Epping Forest Suite
Reginald Tilsley - Welsh Fantasy, Leicester Square Lament
George Tootell– Manx Scenes
Sidney Torch - London Transport Suite
Joan Trimble - Buttermilk Point, The Baird of Lisgoole, The Humours of Carick
Charles Villiars Stanford – Irish Rhapsodies
Ernest Tomlinson - Cumberland Square, Chadkirk Idyll, Kielder Water, An English Overture, Suite of English Folk-Dances, Silverthorn Suite, English Pageant, The Merseyside Overture, The Fantasia on North Country Folk Tunes, Overture on Old English Tunes
Phylis Tate – London Fields
Matthew Taylor – The Needles
Mansel Thomas - Six Welsh Dances
Peter Thompson – Hampshire Summers
Michael Tippett – Shires Suite
George Tootell - Manx Scenes
Robert Walker -  At Bignor Hill
Alfred Wall - Thanet
Gareth Walters - A Gwent Suite, Holmer Green
William Walton - Portsmouth Point
Raymond Warren – Wexford Bells – Suite On Old Irish Tunes
Cyril Watters – Piccadilly Spree, A Cotswold Lullaby
Eric Wetherell – Bristol Quay Suite
Arthur Wood - Dales Dances Suite, My Native Heath
Frederic H. Wood - Scenes in Kent, Scenes in Northumberland, Scenes on the Wye, Scenes on the Downs
Gareth Wood - Cardiff Bay, Culloden Moor
Haydn Wood – London Landmarks, British Rhapsody, A Manx Rhapsody, Mannin Veen, London Cameos Suite, A Manx Overture, Snapshots of London Suite
Sam B. Wood - The Yorkshire Ridings, West Riding March
Thomas Wood - Suffolk Punch, The Brew House at Bures
Francis Woods - Gressenhall Suite
Graham Whettham - Red Cliffs and the Sea
Felix White - Impressions of England
Percy Whitlock - Wessex Suite
Graham Whittam - An English Suite
Arthur Wilkinson – Three Rivers Fantasy, Cornish Caprice
Charles Williams - London Fair, Hills Of Brecon, Seaford Head, Highland Lament, Lizard Point, Kensington, The Bells of St. Clements    
Grace Williams - Fantasia on Welsh Nursery Tunes, Severn Bridge Variations, Castell Caernarfon
Ralph Vaughan Williams – In The Fen Country, A Norfolk Rhapsody x 3. A London Symphony, Charterhouse Suite, Burley Heath, Harnham Down, Fantasia On Sussex Folk Tunes, English Folk Song Suite, Oxford Elegy
Malcolm Williamson – The House of Windsor, Richmond Fanfare
Bill Worland – Leeds Castle, Scottish Power, Brighton Belle, Broadstairs Suite
Christopher Wright - Kyson Point Suite, Orfordness
Denis Wright – Cornish Holiday, Tintagel
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 03, 2020, 12:12:49 AM
Richard Arnell - Dagenham Symphony - this has to be a commission unless Dagenham is Arnell's home town and he has a special affection for it.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
Richard Arnell - Dagenham Symphony - this has to be a commission unless Dagenham is Arnell's home town and he has a special affection for it.
Yes, I agree!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 03, 2020, 01:10:43 AM
PD. Thanks for asking. I never lost the Bate CD (I don't lose them all you know!  ;D). I think it was the Dutton, Rootham, Holbrooke etc CD that I couldn't find and no it hasn't turned up yet.
Does your music listening area (CD storage) look like this? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-okey4m_gA  :D  ;)

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 03, 2020, 01:16:07 AM
Wow!  Those are quite the lists of British place/location music!   :o

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2020, 01:27:16 AM
Does your music listening area (CD storage) look like this? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-okey4m_gA  :D  ;)

PD

That's uncanny PD. Mine looks just like that, but in several locations around the house, the garage and the garden shed.  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 03, 2020, 01:48:18 AM
That's uncanny PD. Mine looks just like that, but in several locations around the house, the garage and the garden shed.  ;D
The garage and the garden shed too?!!   ???

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 03, 2020, 06:15:49 AM
Richard Arnell - Dagenham Symphony - this has to be a commission unless Dagenham is Arnell's home town and he has a special affection for it.

How could anyone have affection for Dagenham ? Awful place, I used to drive though it on way to the Boleyn.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 03, 2020, 06:53:07 AM
How could anyone have affection for Dagenham ? Awful place, I used to drive though it on way to the Boleyn.

Usually, people have an affection for their home town no matter how awful. In the late 1970s I briefly lived in Harlesden, a particularly grim inner London suburb. A survey claimed that over 60% of the population wished they lived somewhere else; this was unique for London and many neighbourhoods were (still are) pretty grim.

I only visited Dagenham twice, in the mid-70s, the paint company I worked for had a manufacturing site there. The overall impression was pretty awful. For many years its main claim to fame was the giant Ford car plant. Though there was also the Dagenham Girl's Pipe Band.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 03, 2020, 07:31:33 AM
Usually, people have an affection for their home town no matter how awful. In the late 1970s I briefly lived in Harlesden, a particularly grim inner London suburb. A survey claimed that over 60% of the population wished they lived somewhere else; this was unique for London and many neighbourhoods were (still are) pretty grim.

I only visited Dagenham twice, in the mid-70s, the paint company I worked for had a manufacturing site there. The overall impression was pretty awful. For many years its main claim to fame was the giant Ford car plant. Though there was also the Dagenham Girl's Pipe Band.

I am from the East End. Dagenham if anything has got worse since your visit, admittedly I am only driving through on the A13. The road rises and the Ford plant is situated either side looking down. For some reason I find it one of the most depressing sights in London. Pleased to reach Newham which is saying something!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2020, 10:09:26 AM
The garage and the garden shed too?!!   ???

PD

Indeed, although the 'garden shed' is actually now my swish 'Man cave'  8)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2020, 10:16:19 AM
Currently enjoying the swashbuckling, baxian 'Sea Venturers' (1934) by Frederic Austin (1872-1952). It also reminds me of Philip Sainton's 'The Island' which I also like very much.
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 03, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
What a list of regional/place inspired music!  :)
Pity almost none of it will be recorded  :(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 03, 2020, 01:28:54 PM
Indeed, although the 'garden shed' is actually now my swish 'Man cave'  8)
lol And here I was thinking of mold and dirt issues (in possibly both places...thinking of UK weather).  Would love to see what your man cave looks like.  And do you do any gardening projects there....or no longer?  :)

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 03, 2020, 01:30:54 PM
What a list of regional/place inspired music!  :)
Pity almost none of it will be recorded  :(
Aren't there at least several recordings from most of those pieces listed at least?   :(

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2020, 08:21:41 PM
lol And here I was thinking of mold and dirt issues (in possibly both places...thinking of UK weather).  Would love to see what your man cave looks like.  And do you do any gardening projects there....or no longer?  :)

PD
OT

As I've now learnt how to send my photos to email (only took several years  ::)) I'll see what I can do. The garden is very nice but that is all my wife's work, much as I'd like to take credit for it. However, I need to cut the grass before I take a photo of it.  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 12:23:38 PM
Got around to listening Bate's 4th Symphony. Obviously cannot be judged on a single work but my impression is of a composer bursting with ideas but maybe lacking discipline. Never dull, the work flies by, a most enjoyable and eventful ride and I need to listen again to see if all the dots join up as a symphony. I'm sure they do.
Simon Heffer presented on BBC radio "The Lonely Death of Stanley Bate" highly recommended and can be heard here https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dxyq
What is it with 20th Century British composers and booze?   

 
I listened to the Bate programme with great interest and thank you for posting it Lol. Evidently a very troubled life but what a fine composer he was. I enjoyed hearing a couple of his songs on the programme. Hopefully we will get a recording of Symphony No.2 one day. For me his masterpiece is not the Viola Concerto, fine as that is, but the Third Symphony which I think is a more original work. The Viola Concerto is quite derivative of VW, not that that is a bad thing and it is a very beautiful work. Furthermore, for all its great beauty, VW's music has an oddly impersonal quality whereas Bate's music, like that of Patrick Hadley in 'The Trees So High', is more personal I think. Clearly it didn't do Bate's career much good to clear off to Australia and then America in 1940; mind you Britten did much the same thing and it didn't do his career much harm in the end.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 04, 2020, 10:55:28 PM
I listened to the Bate programme with great interest and thank you for posting it Lol. Evidently a very troubled life but what a fine composer he was. I enjoyed hearing a couple of his songs on the programme. Hopefully we will get a recording of Symphony No.2 one day. For me his masterpiece is not the Viola Concerto, fine as that is, but the Third Symphony which I think is a more original work. The Viola Concerto is quite derivative of VW, not that that is a bad thing and it is a very beautiful work. Furthermore, for all its great beauty, VW's music has an oddly impersonal quality whereas Bate's music, like that of Patrick Hadley in 'The Trees So High', is more personal I think. Clearly it didn't do Bate's career much good to clear off to Australia and then America in 1940; mind you Britten did much the same thing and it didn't do his career much harm in the end.

Pleased you listened to the broadcast, Jeffrey. I find Bate an intriguing figure, doubly so after listening to the programme. That he was his own worst enemy goes without saying but that doesn't explain how close it became for him to be completely forgotten. Until you mentioned him on the forum I am convinced I have not previously heard his name. I looked him up in Howes' book of which many obscure British composers are noted - not a sausage! You mention Britten, there are many parallels between the two including homosexuality, Bate married (twice) and Britten didn't. It is hard to imagine in these more enlightened times how shattering it must have been to be gay in 1950's Britain. His talent was recognised during his lifetime but all the bad stuff got in the way and perhaps he was just plain unlucky with his career.

I'm expecting delivery of the 3rd Symphony CD today or tomorrow and looking forward to hearing it. I expect to order the Viola Concerto in the near future but be careful not to play it in the car! ;)   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2020, 12:34:45 AM
Pleased you listened to the broadcast, Jeffrey. I find Bate an intriguing figure, doubly so after listening to the programme. That he was his own worst enemy goes without saying but that doesn't explain how close it became for him to be completely forgotten. Until you mentioned him on the forum I am convinced I have not previously heard his name. I looked him up in Howes' book of which many obscure British composers are noted - not a sausage! You mention Britten, there are many parallels between the two including homosexuality, Bate married (twice) and Britten didn't. It is hard to imagine in these more enlightened times how shattering it must have been to be gay in 1950's Britain. His talent was recognised during his lifetime but all the bad stuff got in the way and perhaps he was just plain unlucky with his career.

I'm expecting delivery of the 3rd Symphony CD today or tomorrow and looking forward to hearing it. I expect to order the Viola Concerto in the near future but be careful not to play it in the car! ;)
Haha, yes,you don't want to end up in a ditch Lol! Yes, his life was very sad. For decades I was aware of 'Stanley Bate's 3rd Symphony as a legendary work without ever having the opportunity to hear it. Excellent news about the imminent arrival of the Bate CD. It is an absolutely wonderful disc, not just for the Bate symphony (which I played over and over again when I first received it) but for the other works as well and especially the doom-laden and ultimately poetic 'Pictures from Dante' by Erik Chisholm - what a work! I really look forward to hearing your views on it in due course. Ok, your next Dutton purchases should be Richard Arnell's symphonies 3, 4 and 5 (4 and 5 are on the same disc)  ;D

PS in the Fifth Symphony, Arnell quotes a song 'Dear Old Pals, Jolly Old Pals' which his father liked to sing - I find that moment in the symphony very moving indeed. As someone here once said it makes you want to jump out of your seat and start applauding!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 05, 2020, 01:19:16 AM
Haha, yes,you don't want to end up in a ditch Lol! Yes, his life was very sad. For decades I was aware of 'Stanley Bate's 3rd Symphony as a legendary work without ever having the opportunity to hear it. Excellent news about the imminent arrival of the Bate CD. It is an absolutely wonderful disc, not just for the Bate symphony (which I played over and over again when I first received it) but for the other works as well and especially the doom-laden and ultimately poetic 'Pictures from Dante' by Erik Chisholm - what a work! I really look forward to hearing your views on it in due course. Ok, your next Dutton purchases should be Richard Arnell's symphonies 3, 4 and 5 (4 and 5 are on the same disc)  ;D

PS in the Fifth Symphony, Arnell quotes a song 'Dear Old Pals, Jolly Old Pals' which his father liked to sing - I find that moment in the symphony very moving indeed. As someone here once said it makes you want to jump out of your seat and start applauding!

It is heartening in a vague sort of way that people are exploring and enjoying these neglected composers but I can't always share the enthusiasm. I have purchased various discs from Dutton, usually as part of special offers. I enjoyed Bate's Viola Concerto but didn't follow it up, perhaps I might try the 3rd Symphony. Arnell's 3rd Symphony I found deadly dull and didn't even make it to the end, likewise the 'Odysseus' Symphony of Cecil Armstrong Gibbs.

I expect I will try more Dutton rarities but there is so much other music competing for my attention (and cash!).
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 05, 2020, 05:06:11 AM
It is heartening in a vague sort of way that people are exploring and enjoying these neglected composers but I can't always share the enthusiasm. I have purchased various discs from Dutton, usually as part of special offers. I enjoyed Bate's Viola Concerto but didn't follow it up, perhaps I might try the 3rd Symphony. Arnell's 3rd Symphony I found deadly dull and didn't even make it to the end, likewise the 'Odysseus' Symphony of Cecil Armstrong Gibbs.

I expect I will try more Dutton rarities but there is so much other music competing for my attention (and cash!).

The wheat needs to be separated from the chaff of English music and as you infer this can be expensive. Try buying vinyl! The mortality rate due to a whole list of reasons is far higher then CD purchases. I have been lucky with Dutton, out of ten on my shelves - three outstanding and only one thumbs down. I have blind spots including Rutland Boughton and John Foulds but neither are on Dutton. I am well aware there are a host of recordings on Dutton not worth paying full price, both Arnell CDs cost less then £3 so well worth taking a chance.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2020, 05:42:55 AM
It is heartening in a vague sort of way that people are exploring and enjoying these neglected composers but I can't always share the enthusiasm. I have purchased various discs from Dutton, usually as part of special offers. I enjoyed Bate's Viola Concerto but didn't follow it up, perhaps I might try the 3rd Symphony. Arnell's 3rd Symphony I found deadly dull and didn't even make it to the end, likewise the 'Odysseus' Symphony of Cecil Armstrong Gibbs.

I expect I will try more Dutton rarities but there is so much other music competing for my attention (and cash!).
I agree with you that the 'Odysseus Symphony' of Armstrong Gibbs was a big let-down, especially as I had like the two symphonies released on Marco Polo. The one in memory of his son, killed in WW2 ''Westmorland' was very moving. Arnell's No.3 and 5 made a big hit with me however.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2020, 05:46:20 AM
The wheat needs to be separated from the chaff of English music and as you infer this can be expensive. Try buying vinyl! The mortality rate due to a whole list of reasons is far higher then CD purchases. I have been lucky with Dutton, out of ten on my shelves - three outstanding and only one thumbs down. I have blind spots including Rutland Boughton and John Foulds but neither are on Dutton. I am well aware there are a host of recordings on Dutton not worth paying full price, both Arnell CDs cost less then £3 so well worth taking a chance.
I liked 'The Immortal Hour' but nothing else by Rutland Boughton, York Bowen is even worse in my books. Foulds I like, however, not some of the lighter works released on Dutton but the 'heavier' works released on Lyrita and Warner plus the World Requiem which I had the privilege to see live.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 05, 2020, 06:38:42 AM
I liked 'The Immortal Hour' but nothing else by Rutland Boughton, York Bowen is even worse in my books. Foulds I like, however, not some of the lighter works released on Dutton but the 'heavier' works released on Lyrita and Warner plus the World Requiem which I had the privilege to see live.

Boughton's 3rd Symphony is one of the most boring works I have heard for a long time. John Foulds is odd but for me not in a good way. A "light" composer who comes up with "Dynanic Triptych".
Bate 3 has arrived. Reading the booklet notes Jeffrey the other works look interesting too as you say.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2020, 07:00:52 AM
Boughton's 3rd Symphony is one of the most boring works I have heard for a long time. John Foulds is odd but for me not in a good way. A "light" composer who comes up with "Dynanic Triptych".
Bate 3 has arrived. Reading the booklet notes Jeffrey the other works look interesting too as you say.
'Pictures from Dante' is terrific Lol. Yes I was bored by RB's 3rd Symphony as well, although it is not as dreary as his 'Oliver Cromwell' Symphony. However, I rather liked the Oboe Concerto written for his daughter to play, on the same CD as the Third Symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roy Bland on August 05, 2020, 04:18:47 PM
I liked 'The Immortal Hour' but nothing else by Rutland Boughton, York Bowen is even worse in my books. Foulds I like, however, not some of the lighter works released on Dutton but the 'heavier' works released on Lyrita and Warner plus the World Requiem which I had the privilege to see live.
IMHO this is a good disc ,symphonies 2-3 are better than first (devoted to Cromwell too long and rhetoric ) .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/114656997?iid=303132533566
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 05, 2020, 08:59:05 PM
IMHO this is a good disc ,symphonies 2-3 are better than first (devoted to Cromwell too long and rhetoric ) .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/114656997?iid=303132533566
Interesting and surprisingly cheap as some of those BBC Radio Classics CDs are absurdly priced second-hand.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on August 06, 2020, 12:25:19 AM
It is heartening in a vague sort of way that people are exploring and enjoying these neglected composers but I can't always share the enthusiasm. I have purchased various discs from Dutton, usually as part of special offers. I enjoyed Bate's Viola Concerto but didn't follow it up, perhaps I might try the 3rd Symphony. Arnell's 3rd Symphony I found deadly dull and didn't even make it to the end, likewise the 'Odysseus' Symphony of Cecil Armstrong Gibbs.

I expect I will try more Dutton rarities but there is so much other music competing for my attention (and cash!).
Do try Bate's Third, a masterpiece IMHO not unlike Walton's First.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 06, 2020, 12:38:18 AM
Do try Bate's Third, a masterpiece IMHO not unlike Walton's First.  :)

Many thanks
Bates' 3rd is on order from Dutton
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 06, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
Have listened to Bate's 3rd Symphony three times already and will clock up many more. I didn't find it derivative which is often a criticism thrown at works from this time and place. May have imagined it, but buried in the opening there is a musical figure reminiscent of a similar theme from Shostakovich's 5th Symphony. Again, for a fleeting moment about at 4.10 during the second movement I am reminded of the same work. But most fleeting as I say, Bate has his own voice in this work. In a nutshell the first movement is powerful and the second, with an ageless quality, noble. The second movement is growing on me at a pace. As for the third = WOW Rock n' Roll meets Cossack dance! The most exciting and thrilling symphonic movement since Nielsen I have heard.

Pictures from Dante by Eric Chisholm is a cinematic work. The first half has echoes of "The Isle of the Dead" which I think has already been said, and the second half of Respighi. Again a strong work which should be heard separately from the Bate, I think. The coda is very effective.

That both these works are premiere recordings is depending how you look it either tragic or a joke.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 06, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
Well, that certainly makes the case for me to reassess that CD sooner rather than later, Lol.

As my response to UK works has certainly broadened since my first visit of this work, there's hoping a new listen to it might be more fruitful. Thank you for your review.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 06, 2020, 10:49:36 PM
Have listened to Bate's 3rd Symphony three times already and will clock up many more. I didn't find it derivative which is often a criticism thrown at works from this time and place. May have imagined it, but buried in the opening there is a musical figure reminiscent of a similar theme from Shostakovich's 5th Symphony. Again, for a fleeting moment about at 4.10 during the second movement I am reminded of the same work. But most fleeting as I say, Bate has his own voice in this work. In a nutshell the first movement is powerful and the second, with an ageless quality, noble. The second movement is growing on me at a pace. As for the third = WOW Rock n' Roll meets Cossack dance! The most exciting and thrilling symphonic movement since Nielsen I have heard.

Pictures from Dante by Eric Chisholm is a cinematic work. The first half has echoes of "The Isle of the Dead" which I think has already been said, and the second half of Respighi. Again a strong work which should be heard separately from the Bate, I think. The coda is very effective.

That both these works are premiere recordings is depending how you look it either tragic or a joke.
Glad you enjoyed these works Lol. 'Rock n' Roll meet Cossack dance!' is a great description of the finale of the Bate symphony! On to Arnell Symphony 5 now!  ;D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on August 06, 2020, 11:20:17 PM
As for the third = WOW Rock n' Roll meets Cossack dance! The most exciting and thrilling symphonic movement since Nielsen I have heard.
A good reason to play Bate's Third again, later today. I remember I was equally thrilled when I first heard it.  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 07, 2020, 12:19:30 AM
The Bate/Arnell/Chisholm CD arrived today - very prompt delivery from Dutton. I hope to start listening to it soon but it is going to be very hot here today (and even hotter tomorrow) and so I have to have all my windows open, this means too much ambient noise for serious listening.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2020, 12:28:29 AM
The Bate/Arnell/Chisholm CD arrived today - very prompt delivery from Dutton. I hope to start listening to it soon but it is going to be very hot here today (and even hotter tomorrow) and so I have to have all my windows open, this means too much ambient noise for serious listening.
Well, hopefully you'll enjoy it even more when you get round to it. I guess that headphones would be unbearably hot in this weather too.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 07, 2020, 05:46:44 AM
Ethel Smyth doesn't seem to have her own thread so i'll post this new release here :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/kb/dc/o267egjhgdckb_600.jpg)

Chandos blurb copied from Qobuz:

Quote
August 18th marks the 100th anniversary of the 19th Constitutional Amendment, granting women in the US the right to vote. A fitting time then for our release of the World Premier Recording of Ethel Smyth’s late masterpiece The Prison.
Smyth left home at nineteen to study composition in Leipzig. In the company of Clara Schumann and her teacher Heinrich von Herzogenberg, she met and won the admiration of composers such as Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Dvorák, and Grieg. Smyth was the first woman to have an opera performed at the MET, in 1903 - the second was Kaija Saariaho, whose L'Amour de loin appeared there in 2016 ! Smyth later became central to the Suffragette movement in England, writing the March of the Women. Her gender politics and sexuality were cause for attacks by critics, and she famously went to prison herself for throwing a stone through an MP’s window.
Composed in 1930 and premiered in 1931 in Edinburgh’s Usher Hall, The Prison is a symphony in two parts, Close on Freedom and The Deliverance, set for soprano and bass-baritone soloists, chorus, and full orchestra. The text is taken from a philosophical work by Henry Bennet Brewster and concerns the writings of a prisoner in solitary confinement, his reflections on life and his preparations for death. © Chandos
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 07, 2020, 06:14:14 AM
The Bate/Arnell/Chisholm CD arrived today - very prompt delivery from Dutton. I hope to start listening to it soon but it is going to be very hot here today (and even hotter tomorrow) and so I have to have all my windows open, this means too much ambient noise for serious listening.

It is so hot! Concentration as well as ambient noise makes serious listening difficult.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 07, 2020, 06:39:20 AM
It is so hot! Concentration as well as ambient noise makes serious listening difficult.
Do you gents have fans and/or A/Cs in your listening rooms?

Thankfully, it's cooler here today.

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 07, 2020, 06:46:49 AM
Do you gents have fans and/or A/Cs in your listening rooms?

Thankfully, it's cooler here today.

PD

I don't have air-conditioning but I do have a powerful fan - it is efficient but makes too much noise. I am using the time to catch up on reading.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on August 07, 2020, 07:01:13 AM
No AC or fan but the listening room is downstairs (3/4 underground) so almost always cool enough. On really hot days I don’t listen with headphones.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 07, 2020, 09:39:59 AM
Do you gents have fans and/or A/Cs in your listening rooms?

Thankfully, it's cooler here today.

PD

I dislike air conditioning and not keen on fans either. I find it extremely annoying that because a restaurant has invested in Air Con it feels necessary to blow freezing air over the food purchased at great expense. If the food is not stone cold the customer is. I can count on one hand times I haven't caught a cold on a commercial flight which I put down to AC on the aeroplane.   
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 07, 2020, 09:46:01 AM
I don't have air-conditioning but I do have a powerful fan - it is efficient but makes too much noise. I am using the time to catch up on reading.
I understand...my a/c is noisy!  I do have a fairly quiet stand oscillating fan which I really like.  I can adjust the height, pause it to blow on only one area (like at my tube stereo system--hot in the summertime!  It also has 3-speeds plus a kind of power booster switch you can use (though rather noisy).  At its lowest speed it's pretty quiet.

No AC or fan but the listening room is downstairs (3/4 underground) so almost always cool enough. On really hot days I don’t listen with headphones.
).André, do you have neighbors really close by?  Or are trying to keep the family happy?

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 07, 2020, 09:49:18 AM
I dislike air conditioning and not keen on fans either. I find it extremely annoying that because a restaurant has invested in Air Con it feels necessary to blow freezing air over the food purchased at great expense. If the food is not stone cold the customer is. I can count on one hand times I haven't caught a cold on a commercial flight which I put down to AC on the aeroplane.
Must admit, I don't do muggy well!   :(  I have a problem flying in that I often get sinus infections...which makes for a miserable vacation.

PD

p.s.  Next time that you're thinking of heading off to a restaurant, why not bring a sweater or a jacket?  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2020, 10:23:10 AM
No A/C here either. No fans either and I can't stand this baking hot weather. Hay Fever doesn't help.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 07, 2020, 10:48:38 AM
No A/C here either. No fans either and I can't stand this baking hot weather. Hay Fever doesn't help.
Considering as it seems that the UK is now experiencing recurrent yearly bouts of hot weather, doesn't it make sense to at least get a couple of fans?  And for you, Jeffrey, what about trying out some kind of air purifier to help at least when you're inside?  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on August 07, 2020, 01:46:15 PM
I understand...my a/c is noisy!  I do have a fairly quiet stand oscillating fan which I really like.  I can adjust the height, pause it to blow on only one area (like at my tube stereo system--hot in the summertime!  It also has 3-speeds plus a kind of power booster switch you can use (though rather noisy).  At its lowest speed it's pretty quiet.
).André, do you have neighbors really close by?  Or are trying to keep the family happy?

PD

The kids have been gone for years, so the ‘family’ now consists of only two persons  :D. When my wife goes on an errand or for a day (or a week) to visit one of the kids, I pull all the stops, neighbours be damned !  >:D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 07, 2020, 05:21:48 PM
Have listened to Bate's 3rd Symphony three times already and will clock up many more. I didn't find it derivative which is often a criticism thrown at works from this time and place. May have imagined it, but buried in the opening there is a musical figure reminiscent of a similar theme from Shostakovich's 5th Symphony. Again, for a fleeting moment about at 4.10 during the second movement I am reminded of the same work. But most fleeting as I say, Bate has his own voice in this work. In a nutshell the first movement is powerful and the second, with an ageless quality, noble. The second movement is growing on me at a pace. As for the third = WOW Rock n' Roll meets Cossack dance! The most exciting and thrilling symphonic movement since Nielsen I have heard.

Pictures from Dante by Eric Chisholm is a cinematic work. The first half has echoes of "The Isle of the Dead" which I think has already been said, and the second half of Respighi. Again a strong work which should be heard separately from the Bate, I think. The coda is very effective.

That both these works are premiere recordings is depending how you look it either tragic or a joke.

Since you mention Nielsen, right now I'm listening to that symphony and I'm detecting a closeness with his style, mostly regarding the sense of energy and also some gestures. I can be wrong, but that was what I felt.

I would say this is one of the most exciting and remarkable lesser-known British symphonies I've stumbled upon. It's really memorable and riveting.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 08, 2020, 02:00:47 AM
Since you mention Nielsen, right now I'm listening to that symphony and I'm detecting a closeness with his style, mostly regarding the sense of energy and also some gestures. I can be wrong, but that was what I felt.

I would say this is one of the most exciting and remarkable lesser-known British symphonies I've stumbled upon. It's really memorable and riveting.

Yes, I agree. Nielsen does not come up by accident. The exuberance of Bate's 3rd is trademark Nielsen.

Pleased you like the work and that the general consensus is positive. I am aware how easy it is to over-praise and slip into hyperbole but genuinely believe the 3rd is a great symphony shamefully neglected. I thank Jeffrey for introducing me to the work and composer. 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 08, 2020, 02:11:34 AM
The kids have been gone for years, so the ‘family’ now consists of only two persons  :D. When my wife goes on an errand or for a day (or a week) to visit one of the kids, I pull all the stops, neighbours be damned !  >:D
I thought that I heard "Ride of the Valkyries" coming from somewhere north of me yesterday!  ;)

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2020, 07:41:56 AM
Considering as it seems that the UK is now experiencing recurrent yearly bouts of hot weather, doesn't it make sense to at least get a couple of fans?  And for you, Jeffrey, what about trying out some kind of air purifier to help at least when you're inside?  :)
That sounds far too sensible for me PD. We do have a dehumidifier somewhere and I go to sleep with a CPAC machine on my nose (too much information!  :o) It's like waking up in an intensive care unit every day but it helps me sleep.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 08, 2020, 02:01:37 PM
That sounds far too sensible for me PD. We do have a dehumidifier somewhere and I go to sleep with a CPAC machine on my nose (too much information!  :o) It's like waking up in an intensive care unit every day but it helps me sleep.
Oh, no!  Well, I guess that I'm happy that it helps you?  By the way, I'm guessing that you meant a CPAP vs. a CPAC?

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2020, 05:01:54 PM
Regarding Bate, I find his 3rd Symphony most impressive and quite exciting, but if anything his 4th is a deeper and more individual work. It has real substance and eloquence IMO. I found his substantial Viola Concerto a bit too derivative of RVW for comfort, though the slow movement is beautiful. It would certainly be nice to hear more of Bate's music, such as his first two symphonies, PCs 1 and 3-5, 3 VCs, multiple ballets, and some chamber music (provided they are extant). He was certainly quite prolific considering how short-lived he was.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 08, 2020, 11:11:00 PM
Regarding Bate, I find his 3rd Symphony most impressive and quite exciting, but if anything his 4th is a deeper and more individual work. It has real substance and eloquence IMO. I found his substantial Viola Concerto a bit too derivative of RVW for comfort, though the slow movement is beautiful. It would certainly be nice to hear more of Bate's music, such as his first two symphonies, PCs 1 and 3-5, 3 VCs, multiple ballets, and some chamber music (provided they are extant). He was certainly quite prolific considering how short-lived he was.

To return to the 4th is on my to do list. I didn't find it as coherent as the 3rd but entirely possible that getting to know Bate's work better I will appreciate it more second time. I have ordered the Viola Concerto, being derivative is a criticism that is beginning to turn into a mantra which always makes me suspicious. If it is, so be it, but I can think of worse composers to be derivative from. Odd with recent Bate discussion, that far as I'm aware, not one mention of his Cello Concerto - is it that bad? 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2020, 11:31:46 PM
Oh, no!  Well, I guess that I'm happy that it helps you?  By the way, I'm guessing that you meant a CPAP vs. a CPAC?

PD
OT
Ye, that's right PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2020, 11:34:24 PM
To return to the 4th is on my to do list. I didn't find it as coherent as the 3rd but entirely possible that getting to know Bate's work better I will appreciate it more second time. I have ordered the Viola Concerto, being derivative is a criticism that is beginning to turn into a mantra which always makes me suspicious. If it is, so be it, but I can think of worse composers to be derivative from. Odd with recent Bate discussion, that far as I'm aware, not one mention of his Cello Concerto - is it that bad?
I've hardly listened to the Cello Concerto so must rectify that soon. I agree with Kyle about enjoying Symphony No.4, with its great 'doomed defiance' ending, just as much as Symphony 3.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 09, 2020, 02:17:39 AM
To return to the 4th is on my to do list. I didn't find it as coherent as the 3rd but entirely possible that getting to know Bate's work better I will appreciate it more second time. I have ordered the Viola Concerto, being derivative is a criticism that is beginning to turn into a mantra which always makes me suspicious. If it is, so be it, but I can think of worse composers to be derivative from. Odd with recent Bate discussion, that far as I'm aware, not one mention of his Cello Concerto - is it that bad?

In the spirit of full disclosure, I don't feel the love for Bate's music generally that many do here!  I enjoy it but would not place it generally above other neglected British music that I feel should be resurrected first.  So that said, no real surprise that I enjoyed the Cello Concerto without feeling it was a lost masterpiece.  No doubting the quality of the performance and the dedication of the performers who no doubt have greater insights into the merits of the work than I.  I have no issue with music that is nominally "derivative" either - most things are to some degree and novelty alone is no guarantee of quality.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 09, 2020, 08:58:02 AM
In the spirit of full disclosure, I don't feel the love for Bate's music generally that many do here!  I enjoy it but would not place it generally above other neglected British music that I feel should be resurrected first.  So that said, no real surprise that I enjoyed the Cello Concerto without feeling it was a lost masterpiece.  No doubting the quality of the performance and the dedication of the performers who no doubt have greater insights into the merits of the work than I.  I have no issue with music that is nominally "derivative" either - most things are to some degree and novelty alone is no guarantee of quality.

I doubt "a lost masterpiece" exists. I have full confidence in the fullness of time working out what is great, good and not so good and have no trouble following the line laid by posterity in the order of worth in the world of music. Taste does have a role though otherwise we would all listen to Bach, Beethoven and Brahms and not bother with the rest. I quite like the fact you do not enjoy Bate's music as much as I do - even if I have only listened to two works! If he only makes a connection with a few listeners then his music is worthwhile and neglect a travesty. Much as I try Bax leaves me cold and yet his reputation is far ahead of Bate ......no accounting for taste!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 09, 2020, 10:37:47 PM
I doubt "a lost masterpiece" exists. I have full confidence in the fullness of time working out what is great, good and not so good and have no trouble following the line laid by posterity in the order of worth in the world of music. Taste does have a role though otherwise we would all listen to Bach, Beethoven and Brahms and not bother with the rest. I quite like the fact you do not enjoy Bate's music as much as I do - even if I have only listened to two works! If he only makes a connection with a few listeners then his music is worthwhile and neglect a travesty. Much as I try Bax leaves me cold and yet his reputation is far ahead of Bate ......no accounting for taste!

Absolutely - any Art that connects with even a single person has merit.  I suppose the more "universal" the connection, the "greater" the Art.  I am sure there are 'lost' masterpieces out there - of course as soon as we know about them they are not lost any more!  A touch of the Rumsfeldian "known unknowns" perhaps?!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Andante on August 10, 2020, 02:05:32 AM
What an interesting thread I have only just seen it so will spend some time reading from the beginning.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2020, 05:00:35 AM
Might be of interest here.
Released next month:
https://youtu.be/1WQcETwqRNM
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on August 10, 2020, 06:32:02 AM
My current foray into the works of Richard Arnell (after a few years of neglect :-[) has rekindled my admiration for the composer. His sense of fantasy and a certain unpredictability remind me of George Antheil, while his flair for colour and the occasional splashy gesture strike me as quite un-English.

I just noticed there is a 7th symphony I didn't know existed. I thought he had written only 6 of them. Must investigate this !
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2020, 07:09:13 AM
My current foray into the works of Richard Arnell (after a few years of neglect :-[) has rekindled my admiration for the composer. His sense of fantasy and a certain unpredictability remind me of George Antheil, while his flair for colour and the occasional splashy gesture strike me as quite un-English.

I just noticed there is a 7th symphony I didn't know existed. I thought he had written only 6 of them. Must investigate this !
It's here André, although my main interest in this CD is in Bate's IMO terrific 4th Symphony. Arnell's symphonies were a great discovery for me, especially No.3 which I played over and over again when it first appeared on CD and the very moving No.5. I enjoyed all the others as well:
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on August 10, 2020, 08:42:53 AM
Thanks Jeffrey ! I see the cover states ‘realised and completed by Martin Yates’, so that would suggest the work was upon the composer’s death. Which probably accounts for my impression of just 6 symphonies...
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 11, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
Arnell's 7th Symphony is quite good IMO. I don't care if it wasn't finished by the composer himself. For its merits is an interesting completion.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 12, 2020, 08:27:24 AM
To return to the 4th is on my to do list. I didn't find it as coherent as the 3rd but entirely possible that getting to know Bate's work better I will appreciate it more second time. I have ordered the Viola Concerto, being derivative is a criticism that is beginning to turn into a mantra which always makes me suspicious. If it is, so be it, but I can think of worse composers to be derivative from. Odd with recent Bate discussion, that far as I'm aware, not one mention of his Cello Concerto - is it that bad?

I agree that “derivative” is an overused and inaccurate criticism often leveled at the music of lesser-known composers, and I enjoy a lot of music that is often called “derivative”. But I think in the case of Bate’s Viola Concerto, the criticism is somewhat justified. ;)

And yeah, I’ve been meaning to check out his Cello Concerto!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2020, 08:33:09 AM
I agree that “derivative” is an overused and inaccurate criticism often leveled at the music of lesser-known composers, and I enjoy a lot of music that is often called “derivative”. But I think in the case of Bate’s Viola Concerto, the criticism is somewhat justified. ;)

And yeah, I’ve been meaning to check out his Cello Concerto!
The Viola Concerto is a fine work and Bate does have his own style despite the possible influences.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 12, 2020, 11:03:36 PM
I agree that “derivative” is an overused and inaccurate criticism often leveled at the music of lesser-known composers, and I enjoy a lot of music that is often called “derivative”. But I think in the case of Bate’s Viola Concerto, the criticism is somewhat justified. ;)

And yeah, I’ve been meaning to check out his Cello Concerto!

I enjoyed the viola concerto as I thought I would. I find it far more of interest the work's style then being derivative or not. Due to a lack of recordings my theory cannot be tested but both the 3rd and 4th Symphonies have no connection with the English pastoral school and yet the Viola Concerto has. I find the symphonies to be cosmopolitan works. Bate spent a third of his adult life abroad and the viola concerto (perhaps, as we don't know) his most "English" work composed in America. Coincidentally, RVW wrote his in France. I wonder if home-sickness is at play here. Not as accomplished as RVW he required a template to compose a pastoral work and who better then to use as an example then his ex-teacher RVW, to whom he dedicated the Viola Concerto to. Pure conjecture, but doesn't alter the fact Bate composed a fine concerto.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 12, 2020, 11:51:38 PM
I enjoyed the viola concerto as I thought I would. I find it far more of interest the work's style then being derivative or not. Due to a lack of recordings my theory cannot be tested but both the 3rd and 4th Symphonies have no connection with the English pastoral school and yet the Viola Concerto has. I find the symphonies to be cosmopolitan works. Bate spent a third of his adult life abroad and the viola concerto (perhaps, as we don't know) his most "English" work composed in America. Coincidentally, RVW wrote his in France. I wonder if home-sickness is at play here. Not as accomplished as RVW he required a template to compose a pastoral work and who better then to use as an example then his ex-teacher RVW, to whom he dedicated the Viola Concerto to. Pure conjecture, but doesn't alter the fact Bate composed a fine concerto.

the world is better for having the Bate Concerto in it - however it came to be written!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: pjme on August 13, 2020, 12:28:34 AM
Has this performance been mentioned yet? The sound isn't perfect.

https://youtu.be/mrOnGinlWuI

Bate symphony nr. 3 / Adrian Boult
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 13, 2020, 01:12:33 AM
Has this performance been mentioned yet? The sound isn't perfect.

https://youtu.be/mrOnGinlWuI

Bate symphony nr. 3 / Adrian Boult

Fine performance indeed but rather boxed-in sound.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on August 15, 2020, 01:44:55 AM
I've been looking into a bunch of composers who are keeping the British Symphony alive and well here and now. Plenty of them are being released on Toccata.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 16, 2020, 05:57:58 AM
By accident (I put this disc on to listen to the Howells pieces and ended up most impressed by the Stevens) I heard these piano pieces by Bernard Stevens today for the first time;

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/401930475475_/Herbert-Howells-Bernard-Stevens-Piano-Music.jpg)

so rummaging through my collection I found this;

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zN4-JWsbL._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

I'd forgotten - if I ever knew - how impressive this Symphony No.2 is.  More Stevens exporation is clearly required........
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2020, 06:56:32 AM
By accident (I put this disc on to listen to the Howells pieces and ended up most impressed by the Stevens) I heard these piano pieces by Bernard Stevens today for the first time;

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/401930475475_/Herbert-Howells-Bernard-Stevens-Piano-Music.jpg)

so rummaging through my collection I found this;

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zN4-JWsbL._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

I'd forgotten - if I ever knew - how impressive this Symphony No.2 is.  More Stevens exporation is clearly required........
The 'Symphony of Liberation' is very good.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 16, 2020, 09:07:52 AM
I've been looking into a bunch of composers who are keeping the British Symphony alive and well here and now. Plenty of them are being released on Toccata.

Indeed, there are many composers out there still writing symphonies (especially in the UK), giving lie to the notion that the symphony is “dead”. It’s just that these composers usually get a lot less attention and exposure than the ones who write gimmicky stuff with flashy, “creative” titles... ::)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
the world is better for having the Bate Concerto in it - however it came to be written!
+1
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 16, 2020, 12:10:09 PM
The 'Symphony of Liberation' is very good.

I was reading a bit about that work and it seems to have been very well received at the time.  I will check it out online - the CD seems to be stupidly expensive at the moment......
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on August 16, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
I think I posted this in a different thread but Philip Sawyers Symphony No. 4 is a fantastic new English symphony...please seek it out and other works by this excellent composer.  Very dramatic and exciting music!

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/NI%206405
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2020, 10:23:10 PM
I was reading a bit about that work and it seems to have been very well received at the time.  I will check it out online - the CD seems to be stupidly expensive at the moment......

That's a shame. It won a Daily Express (I think) competition for an orchestral work commemorating the end of WW2 (can't imagine the Express doing that now!)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 16, 2020, 11:07:05 PM
I think I posted this in a different thread but Philip Sawyers Symphony No. 4 is a fantastic new English symphony...please seek it out and other works by this excellent composer.  Very dramatic and exciting music!

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/NI%206405

Absolutely - Sawyers' music is excellent.  He has a real sense of handling the orchestra - helped I think in no small way by his years as a professional violinist at Covent Garden.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on August 16, 2020, 11:35:46 PM
Sawyers is definitely one of the composers I'm interested in. I enjoy the works with fancy titles and whatnot as well, but there's something deeply profound about The Symphony. It continues the great tradition of major musical thought.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 17, 2020, 01:57:26 AM
The 'Symphony of Liberation' is very good.
I don't know Bernard Stevens piano music but I do have a couple of his CDs on Meridian; the one that you also have with the violin concerto and another one which has his 'Symphony of Liberation' and his cello concerto on it too.   :)

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 17, 2020, 05:13:48 AM
I don't know Bernard Stevens piano music but I do have a couple of his CDs on Meridian; the one that you also have with the violin concerto and another one which has his 'Symphony of Liberation' and his cello concerto on it too.   :)

PD

Did you enjoy the Symphony of Liberation?  I found a relatively cheap copy of the CD so I'll be able to decide for myself soon enough!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2020, 09:46:26 AM
Did you enjoy the Symphony of Liberation?  I found a relatively cheap copy of the CD so I'll be able to decide for myself soon enough!
Excellent! Look forward to hearing your views. It has at least one absolutely beautiful moment.
And that is at the start of the Symphony of Liberation (oboe tune):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OUqO5EHKW_M
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 17, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
Re contemporary symphonies, I have a list of what I consider the greatest symphonies from the beginning (c 1760) to now. Of course it is biased by my biases (almost no Romantics except Bruckner), but I was amazed when I put these symphonies on a timeline to find that besides the 1760-90 period the most crowded period is in fact 1939-90. I’m sure that the drop off after 1990 is mainly the difficulty of finding out about recent and contemporary performances, and the reluctance of record companies to record contemporary classical music that is symphonic (or string quartetic) rather than gimmicky.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 18, 2020, 02:03:27 AM
Did you enjoy the Symphony of Liberation?  I found a relatively cheap copy of the CD so I'll be able to decide for myself soon enough!
I did!  Been ages since I've listened to it though, so I should give it a revisit soon.

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: aukhawk on August 18, 2020, 01:28:30 PM
Indeed, there are many composers out there still writing symphonies (especially in the UK), giving lie to the notion that the symphony is “dead”.

The symphony is an 18thC construct for 18thC manners and ideals - of course it's dead.  As of nearly 200 years ago.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 18, 2020, 05:55:21 PM
The symphony is an 18thC construct for 18thC manners and ideals - of course it's dead.  As of nearly 200 years ago.

Well, I see a continuity from the 1760s onwards myself. But even if you have an aesthetic philosophy that sees cultural productions as falling into particular periods with no long-term continuity, you still need a name for those musical compositions that some of us think are still being produced now and which are published with the word "symphony" on the cover. What would you call them "post-post-Romantic symphonies"?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 19, 2020, 01:07:17 AM
The symphony is an 18thC construct for 18thC manners and ideals - of course it's dead.  As of nearly 200 years ago.

I'll make sure I pass on your comment to every composer of the last 200 hundred years who has so mis-guidedly called any work a "symphony".  Who knew they were so wrong.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: relm1 on August 19, 2020, 04:26:43 AM
The symphony is an 18thC construct for 18thC manners and ideals - of course it's dead.  As of nearly 200 years ago.

lol  :laugh:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: aukhawk on August 19, 2020, 08:45:29 AM
 ;D  Most of their practitioners even dress as though at a funeral, and their audiences bahave as though they are at one.  We on this forum are strolling through a mausoleum.  Need I go on?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 19, 2020, 11:48:28 AM
;D  Most of their practitioners even dress as though at a funeral, and their audiences bahave as though they are at one.  We on this forum are strolling through a mausoleum.  Need I go on?
Pardon, but shouldn't (looking at your avatar) that be "Baahave"?   ;)

For me, it's not a mausoleum if the music is still being appreciated and also recorded.   ;D

Best wishes,

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 20, 2020, 01:50:01 AM
;D  Most of their practitioners even dress as though at a funeral, and their audiences bahave as though they are at one.  We on this forum are strolling through a mausoleum.  Need I go on?

Stir the pot vigorously and leave to simmer..........................
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: springrite on August 20, 2020, 02:14:56 AM


For me, it's not a mausoleum if the music is still being appreciated and also recorded.   ;D



Of course, ghosts are live beings.  :D
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Scion7 on August 21, 2020, 12:14:31 AM
Well, just spent 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. on a Finzi binge .... time to go up, then!   :blank:
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 21, 2020, 02:41:32 AM
Well, just spent 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. on a Finzi binge .... time to go up, then!   :blank:
Ouch!  ???  Do you often stay up all night to listen to music?

In any event, looking forward to your comments regarding his music; once you've had a chance to get some sleep! 

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 21, 2020, 05:19:25 AM
Well, just spent 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. on a Finzi binge .... time to go up, then!   :blank:

If I had the stamina, and I haven't, Finzi would be my choice.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 21, 2020, 07:30:22 AM
Well, just spent 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. on a Finzi binge .... time to go up, then!   :blank:

We’ve all been there, my friend! ;) I assume you were able to make it through his entire output (and then some) in that time!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 21, 2020, 07:30:27 AM
If I had the stamina, and I haven't, Finzi would be my choice.
Those days are long gone for me!   ;)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 21, 2020, 07:32:09 AM
We’ve all been there, my friend! ;) I assume you were able to make it through his entire output (and then some) in that time!
I was also trying to think if Finzi produced enough music (at least that's been recorded) to last 6 hours?  Maybe some snack, etc., breaks thrown in?  ;)

PD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2020, 11:46:52 AM
Those days are long gone for me!   ;)
+1
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Scion7 on August 21, 2020, 01:47:26 PM
Finzi?  Well, coming from Manchester before the move across the pond, I'd heard him numerous times since childhood. It was just his turn in ye ole rotation.  A very lush, neo-Romantic tunesmith. Bad way to go - shame, that.  Also read up on his wife's career on the internet while perusing.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 26, 2020, 12:30:15 PM
Music of the Four Countries.

Unlike other genres there are not too many concept albums in classical recordings. A simple idea but a good one to record four works with each representing a country of the United Kingdom. Enjoyable and tuneful music to relax with, I enjoyed the MacCunn Scottish and Harty Irish works most.

I must mention York Records, a most reliable place to shop. I ordered this LP yesterday morning and received in the post today!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 26, 2020, 12:38:54 PM
Music of the Four Countries.

Unlike other genres there are not too many concept albums in classical recordings. A simple idea but a good one to record four works with each representing a country of the United Kingdom. Enjoyable and tuneful music to relax with, I enjoyed the MacCunn Scottish and Harty Irish works most.

I must mention York Records, a most reliable place to shop. I ordered this LP yesterday morning and received in the post today!

That's a famous old disc. The Hamilton Harty is my favourite work on the disc. York Records sounds v good!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 26, 2020, 12:48:13 PM
Music of the Four Countries.

Unlike other genres there are not too many concept albums in classical recordings. A simple idea but a good one to record four works with each representing a country of the United Kingdom. Enjoyable and tuneful music to relax with, I enjoyed the MacCunn Scottish and Harty Irish works most.

I must mention York Records, a most reliable place to shop. I ordered this LP yesterday morning and received in the post today!

Well, that has just given me a feeling of déjà-vu... I read a mention about this exact LP and that combination of composers only yesterday I think in the Havergal Brian on Music Vol.1 I am reading at the moment.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GEPXDV96L._SX308_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 26, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
That's a famous old disc. The Hamilton Harty is my favourite work on the disc. York Records sounds v good!

I agree Jeffrey. Interesting that "Wild Geese" are not geese but Irish soldiers dreaming of Clare on the battle fields of Fontenoy in 1745.

Originally released in 1968, this is a 1984 re-master.

Jon at York Records bends over backwards to keep his customer happy. By far the best online source of ye old LP. I will PM you contact details as it may come in handy at some time.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 26, 2020, 11:15:57 PM
Well, that has just given me a feeling of déjà-vu... I read a mention about this exact LP and that combination of composers only yesterday I think in the Havergal Brian on Music Vol.1 I am reading at the moment.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GEPXDV96L._SX308_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Were the comments positive, Olivier?
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 26, 2020, 11:25:05 PM
I agree Jeffrey. Interesting that "Wild Geese" are not geese but Irish soldiers dreaming of Clare on the battle fields of Fontenoy in 1745.

Originally released in 1968, this is a 1984 re-master.

Jon at York Records bends over backwards to keep his customer happy. By far the best online source of ye old LP. I will PM you contact details as it may come in handy at some time.
I'd forgotten that about the Wild Geese as well Lol. Harty is an interesting composer. The 'Children of Lir' is especially hood and I've always enjoyed the Piano Concerto.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 27, 2020, 12:26:50 AM
Were the comments positive, Olivier?

My apologies Lol, I got mixed up.

Brian's articles pre-date the album (1930's) and there is a large section of articles on the state of British Music at the time, lamenting the deserved but overarching presence of Elgar's music to the detriment of our other composers, but not just English, we have to look at composers from the other UK countries. That particular paragraph reminded readers of Mackenzie for the Scots, Stanford for the Irish and Edward German for the Welsh (The latter was a new name to me, that's why it stood out and I got confused - I read also a few mentions of Ethel Smyth in the book as well). Sorry for the confusion.

Fascinating book, so far as a pre-WW2 view on the state of classical music in the UK and its composers (nothing much has changed really!). HB was an ardent advocate in his articles of not only Elgar's and Delius' music but also Bax, Bantock, Holbrooke, Hadley, etc...
 
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 27, 2020, 12:39:21 AM
I'd forgotten that about the Wild Geese as well Lol. Harty is an interesting composer. The 'Children of Lir' is especially hood and I've always enjoyed the Piano Concerto.

Oh, i'll have to look that version of Children of Lir by Harty, Jeffrey. I only know of a version by Robert Lamb which I listened to when recommended to me a couple of months ago by Aligreto/Fergus. That was at least one work with narration i did enjoy.

my comments to Fergus at the time :

Quote
I have actually genuinely enjoyed it, even if this will most likely be a one-time listen only. I followed the CD along with a  short version of the tale on Wikipedia. Some of the Gaelic names threw me here and there but the various key moments and atmospheres of the story were well depicted in the music. The voice of the female narrator was really engrossing and at times, I was absorbed in the story like a kid sitting by the fireplace.

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/28/07/0636943440728_600.jpg)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 27, 2020, 01:37:37 AM
Oh, i'll have to look that version of Children of Lir by Harty, Jeffrey. I only know of a version by Robert Lamb which I listened to when recommended to me a couple of months ago by Aligreto/Fergus. That was at least one work with narration i did enjoy.

my comments to Fergus at the time :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/28/07/0636943440728_600.jpg)

Good morning Olivier!
Here it is, perhaps Harty's most important work, written towards the end of his life. I noticed that it's available cheaply second-hand on Amazon UK and it's also on You Tube:
(http://)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 27, 2020, 01:43:37 AM
Thank you Jeffrey, I have saved to watch later on YT.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 27, 2020, 06:59:07 AM
My apologies Lol, I got mixed up.

Brian's articles pre-date the album (1930's) and there is a large section of articles on the state of British Music at the time, lamenting the deserved but overarching presence of Elgar's music to the detriment of our other composers, but not just English, we have to look at composers from the other UK countries. That particular paragraph reminded readers of Mackenzie for the Scots, Stanford for the Irish and Edward German for the Welsh (The latter was a new name to me, that's why it stood out and I got confused - I read also a few mentions of Ethel Smyth in the book as well). Sorry for the confusion.

Fascinating book, so far as a pre-WW2 view on the state of classical music in the UK and its composers (nothing much has changed really!). HB was an ardent advocate in his articles of not only Elgar's and Delius' music but also Bax, Bantock, Holbrooke, Hadley, etc...
 

No problem, Olivier. Comforting to know it is not only me that has the odd confused moment.

Your Brian book sounds interesting. I was quite excited to pick up in a second hand bookshop - Twentieth Century Composers: Britain, Scandinavia and The Netherlands by another English composer, Humphrey Searle and Robert Layton. A huge disappointment, in fact dull as ditch water.

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 27, 2020, 07:13:11 AM
Thank you Jeffrey, I have saved to watch later on YT.
My pleasure Olivier. Coincidentally I'm listening to it now. I find the work rather moving, especially as it progresses and the chorus comes in. The story must have had significance for Harty who was terminally ill when he composed it - his greatest work as far as I'm concerned with a depth unlike any of his compositions that I've heard, enjoyable as they invariably are. Of course it was Harty who made the most extraordinary recording of Walton's First Symphony.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 27, 2020, 07:21:56 AM
Lol,

There are some cheap-ish used copies on Ebay and AMZ. It is in the same vein as "Boult on Music" but all based on Brian's articles, selected and organised by Malcolm McDonald.

The chapters are as follows:

Intro - Havergal Brian, Journalist
1 - Spirit of England
2 - The Older Generation (Cowen, German, McEwen, Parry, Stanford, Sullivan)
3 - Elgar
4 - Delius
5 - Bantock
6 - British Music in Performance
7 - Nationalism, Leagues and Competitions
8 - Near Contemporaries (Bax, Coates, Coleridge Taylor, Davies, Dyson, Foulds, Balfour Gardiner, Grainger, Holbrooke, Holst, Hurlstone, Scott, Sorabji, RVW...)
9 - Younger Composers (Britten, Cooke, Goossens, Mayerl, Walton, Warlock)
10 - Orchestras, Choirs, Bands and the BBC

I skipped the Delius and skimmed the Elgar chapters, both of lesser interest to me but the rest is interesting so far (i am in chapter 8 right now) and it adds some more context to the music I have been immersed into in the last year or two now.

As per his intro in Volume 1, McDonald's plan was to originally release 6 different volumes of HB's articles in total :

1 - British music
2 - European and US music
3 - Conductors, performers and other contemporaries
4 - Great composers of the past
5 - More general music topics
6 - More autobiographical writings

I did have a look at Vol.2 before, available as well, but the composers were not of interest to me.

Shame it stopped at No.2. I wouldn't have minded Vol.3 and 5 myself.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Christo on August 27, 2020, 09:18:16 AM
Good morning Olivier!
Here it is, perhaps Harty's most important work, written towards the end of his life. I noticed that it's available cheaply second-hand on Amazon UK and it's also on You Tube:
It's for grabs at the Chandos site together with all of Harty's orchestral output: https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010194#CD
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 27, 2020, 10:52:38 AM
It's for grabs at the Chandos site together with all of Harty's orchestral output: https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010194#CD
Thanks Johan!
That's amazing - the box set of complete Harty orchestral works for £5.00.
Just ordered it  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 27, 2020, 11:21:16 PM
Lol,

There are some cheap-ish used copies on Ebay and AMZ. It is in the same vein as "Boult on Music" but all based on Brian's articles, selected and organised by Malcolm McDonald.

The chapters are as follows:

Intro - Havergal Brian, Journalist
1 - Spirit of England
2 - The Older Generation (Cowen, German, McEwen, Parry, Stanford, Sullivan)
3 - Elgar
4 - Delius
5 - Bantock
6 - British Music in Performance
7 - Nationalism, Leagues and Competitions
8 - Near Contemporaries (Bax, Coates, Coleridge Taylor, Davies, Dyson, Foulds, Balfour Gardiner, Grainger, Holbrooke, Holst, Hurlstone, Scott, Sorabji, RVW...)
9 - Younger Composers (Britten, Cooke, Goossens, Mayerl, Walton, Warlock)
10 - Orchestras, Choirs, Bands and the BBC

I skipped the Delius and skimmed the Elgar chapters, both of lesser interest to me but the rest is interesting so far (i am in chapter 8 right now) and it adds some more context to the music I have been immersed into in the last year or two now.

As per his intro in Volume 1, McDonald's plan was to originally release 6 different volumes of HB's articles in total :

1 - British music
2 - European and US music
3 - Conductors, performers and other contemporaries
4 - Great composers of the past
5 - More general music topics
6 - More autobiographical writings

I did have a look at Vol.2 before, available as well, but the composers were not of interest to me.

Shame it stopped at No.2. I wouldn't have minded Vol.3 and 5 myself.

Interesting, Olivier. Were the articles culled from the same source, a musical journal perhaps?

Malcolm McDonald! Wasn't he also a striker for Newcastle?  :)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on August 28, 2020, 12:21:47 AM
Interesting, Olivier. Were the articles culled from the same source, a musical journal perhaps?

Malcolm McDonald! Wasn't he also a striker for Newcastle?  :)

He also played for England (despite his Scottish name). He also found time to write a biography of Brahms for the Dent Master Musicians series.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 28, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Interesting, Olivier. Were the articles culled from the same source, a musical journal perhaps?


They are from a variety of papers he has written for:
- The Musical World, Manchester principal correspondent, including reviewing Hallé concerts (1904-1908)
- The Staffordshire Sentinel (1909-10)
- Various including the English Review. The British bandsman, the Sackbut, etc (1914-1927)
- London's The Musical Opinion, assistant to the editor (1927-1940)
- Only sporadic writings after that

And before Jezetha and other Brianites hunt me down, it is Malcolm MacDonald  0:)
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 28, 2020, 05:48:29 AM
They are from a variety of papers he has written for:
- The Musical World, Manchester principal correspondent, including reviewing Hallé concerts (1904-1908)
- The Staffordshire Sentinel (1909-10)
- Various including the English Review. The British bandsman, the Sackbut, etc (1914-1927)
- London's The Musical Opinion, assistant to the editor (1927-1940)
- Only sporadic writings after that

And before Jezetha and other Brianites hunt me down, it is Malcolm MacDonald  0:)

Thanks, Olivier.

What's an "a" between friends.  ;) Artistic licence is a marvellous thing. The barcodes won't mind, who incidentally are the first game for the mighty Irons in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 28, 2020, 07:36:06 AM
Thanks, Olivier.

What's an "a" between friends.  ;) Artistic licence is a marvellous thing. The barcodes won't mind, who incidentally are the first game for the mighty Irons in a couple of weeks.

A six-pointer for relegation right from the off for both teams, tough one  :P
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on August 29, 2020, 09:34:03 AM
Thanks Johan!
That's amazing - the box set of complete Harty orchestral works for £5.00.
Just ordered it  :)


+1. Thanks indeed !
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 29, 2020, 11:23:07 AM
Arrived today from Chandos, amazing value for £5.00 brand new (3xCDs).
Thanks to Christo for alerting us to the offer:
(http://)
Here's a review if anyone wants to know what it is like:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/oct00/harty.htm
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on August 29, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
I ordered it today. I just checked and found I had nothing by Harty  ???.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 30, 2020, 12:54:59 AM
I ordered it today. I just checked and found I had nothing by Harty  ???.
:o
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 30, 2020, 12:59:31 AM
I ordered it today. I just checked and found I had nothing by Harty  ???.

I still reckon the early Ulster Orchestra/Thomson recordings are technically some of the best Chandos did.  The Irish Symphony included in this box was the Ulster Orchestra's first commercial recording.  Before that they had been the BBC Northern Ireland Orchestra at a time when the BBC did not allow their orchestras to record for other companies (things have changed just a little there now....!).  So there is a freshness and a bloom to the playing that is very appealing.  Always a pleasure to hear Ralph Holmes' refined playing.  But the whole set is excellent and for £5 a joy. 

One of the 2 Naxos discs of Harty does include the "Fantasy Scenes" missing from the Chandos survey and the coupling of Peter Donohoe in the Piano Concerto makes an interesting comparison with Binns for Chandos.  The major un-recorded work is "The Mystic Trumpeter" which can be found on YouTube
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 30, 2020, 01:52:18 AM
I still reckon the early Ulster Orchestra/Thomson recordings are technically some of the best Chandos did.  The Irish Symphony included in this box was the Ulster Orchestra's first commercial recording.  Before that they had been the BBC Northern Ireland Orchestra at a time when the BBC did not allow their orchestras to record for other companies (things have changed just a little there now....!).  So there is a freshness and a bloom to the playing that is very appealing.  Always a pleasure to hear Ralph Holmes' refined playing.  But the whole set is excellent and for £5 a joy. 

One of the 2 Naxos discs of Harty does include the "Fantasy Scenes" missing from the Chandos survey and the coupling of Peter Donohoe in the Piano Concerto makes an interesting comparison with Binns for Chandos.  The major un-recorded work is "The Mystic Trumpeter" which can be found on YouTube

Interesting, thanks. I like the Naxos recording of the PC as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on August 30, 2020, 02:01:03 AM
Arrived today from Chandos, amazing value for £5.00 brand new (3xCDs).
Thanks to Christo for alerting us to the offer:
(http://)
Here's a review if anyone wants to know what it is like:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/oct00/harty.htm

Thanks Jeffrey, I have found it on Qobuz so i'll stream it soon. I think I might have sampled it briefly for the Lir only and went for a full listen of the Lamb version instead at the time. I'll revisit that Harty again.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on August 30, 2020, 05:11:19 AM
I knew I had a Harty disc somewhere! I finally found it, so now I'm enjoying the wonderful Irish Symphony. This work contains genuinely one of my favourite endings to a symphony. It always gives me goosebumps. After the minor-key climax with the tam-tam stroke, a big and full D major chord diminuendo, the most gorgeous woodwind/harp chord, and then the rest of the orchestra comes back into a crescendo.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on August 30, 2020, 10:29:57 AM
I knew I had a Harty disc somewhere! I finally found it, so now I'm enjoying the wonderful Irish Symphony. This work contains genuinely one of my favourite endings to a symphony. It always gives me goosebumps. After the minor-key climax with the tam-tam stroke, a big and full D major chord diminuendo, the most gorgeous woodwind/harp chord, and then the rest of the orchestra comes back into a crescendo.
Oh, I've been rather dismissive of this work - must correct that!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 30, 2020, 10:51:52 PM
I knew I had a Harty disc somewhere! I finally found it, so now I'm enjoying the wonderful Irish Symphony. This work contains genuinely one of my favourite endings to a symphony. It always gives me goosebumps. After the minor-key climax with the tam-tam stroke, a big and full D major chord diminuendo, the most gorgeous woodwind/harp chord, and then the rest of the orchestra comes back into a crescendo.

I had a similar experience. With the Harty discussion in full flow I checked my shelves and came across his Violin Concerto on an analogue Chandos LP. I have not (re) played it yet but do recall it being a most pleasant piece.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 30, 2020, 11:05:59 PM
I had a similar experience. With the Harty discussion in full flow I checked my shelves and came across his Violin Concerto on an analogue Chandos LP. I have not (re) played it yet but do recall it being a most pleasant piece.

Actually - seeing that the Violin Concerto disc is analogue - perhaps that was the 1st Ulster Orchestra disc and the Irish Symphony the 2nd! (whatever the truth).  Just checked - yes - the VC was recorded June 1979 and the Symphony in October 1980.  Help.... 40 years ago!!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Irons on August 31, 2020, 12:21:56 PM
Actually - seeing that the Violin Concerto disc is analogue - perhaps that was the 1st Ulster Orchestra disc and the Irish Symphony the 2nd! (whatever the truth).  Just checked - yes - the VC was recorded June 1979 and the Symphony in October 1980.  Help.... 40 years ago!!

40 years is a recent recording for me. :) Yes, June 1979 is correct. I may have it wrong but when the Couzens' set out with their own label, Chandos after working freelance for RCA they pinned their flag to Harty. Maybe he wasn't a higher enough profile? Anyway, they switched to Bax at the perfect moment - introduction of CD and as they say, the rest is history.

The first movement of the Harty Violin Concerto was for me not that impressive, but the following slow movement is beautiful, absolutely lovely. The finale belongs to the Emerald Isle and is great fun.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: kyjo on August 31, 2020, 06:45:18 PM
The Harty PC is a very enjoyable work in the Rachmaninoff vein. I don't recall thinking too highly of the Irish Symphony, but I should give it another listen.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Maestro267 on September 01, 2020, 03:49:52 AM
Interesting to note that the Chandos recording of the Piano Concerto is some 7 minutes longer than the Naxos.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on September 02, 2020, 03:50:27 AM
Has anybody read this please ? is it any good ?

Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Biffo on September 02, 2020, 06:17:11 AM
Has anybody read this please ? is it any good ?



It depends on how much of Barbirolli-nut you are. The autobiographical chapters are very interesting and so are some of the lectures and speeches but as the book is comprehensive the latter become repetitive. Barbirolli addressed the same organisations - Halle Society, New York Philharmonic Symphony League, Lord Provost of Glasgow etc on a regular basis and tends to repeat himself. Also he repeats the same anecdotes. As the speeches were spread out over 40 years he can be forgiven that. Reading them as a book is a different matter.

I read the book from cover to cover but did it in batches.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on September 02, 2020, 06:44:51 AM
It depends on how much of Barbirolli-nut you are. The autobiographical chapters are very interesting and so are some of the lectures and speeches but as the book is comprehensive the latter become repetitive. Barbirolli addressed the same organisations - Halle Society, New York Philharmonic Symphony League, Lord Provost of Glasgow etc on a regular basis and tends to repeat himself. Also he repeats the same anecdotes. As the speeches were spread out over 40 years he can be forgiven that. Reading them as a book is a different matter.

I read the book from cover to cover but did it in batches.

Thank you for your impressions, Biffo. Looking at the table of contents, I had some reservations about the composers being covered (very little matching my tastes) but the autobiographical elements, what touches to the orchestra running and conducting would be of interest. Similar volumes (Boult on Music, and to another extent Brian on Music) were very informative for me. Might eventually get this one too and, like you, approach it piecemeal like I did with the other books.

edit: I have his biography by Charles Reid on my shelves, unread to this day. Bought it cheap years ago in a charity shop on a whim, long before i had any idea of an interest in British composers. Will have to address that.     
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 29, 2020, 04:46:10 AM
I'm reposting one of Papi Oli's posts from the bargains page;

Dutton Vocalion has an Autumn sale going on on their website.

Bate's Third at £4.99, Arnell's Third at £4.99, the Foulds volumes at £2.99-£4.99, etc...


All I would add is you need to jump to about halfway down page 12 of the sale items;

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=4&pg=12

for the start of the "classical" discs.  A lot of good British music which of course Vocalion are justly famed for including some Havergal Brian, the early Bax Symphony, Ireland/Elgar/Delius/Bush etc etc - definitely worth a trawl for the Brit-music-inclined..........
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: André on September 29, 2020, 04:54:31 AM
I'm reposting one of Papi Oli's posts from the bargains page;

Dutton Vocalion has an Autumn sale going on on their website.

Bate's Third at £4.99, Arnell's Third at £4.99, the Foulds volumes at £2.99-£4.99, etc...


All I would add is you need to jump to about halfway down page 12 of the sale items;

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=4&pg=12

for the start of the "classical" discs.  A lot of good British music which of course Vocalion are justly famed for including some Havergal Brian, the early Bax Symphony, Ireland/Elgar/Delius/Bush etc etc - definitely worth a trawl for the Brit-music-inclined..........

+1. I bought a few myself  ;).

 Some items - quite a few actually - are unavailable. They show a 0£ price tag. I don’t know if it’s because they are oop or just sold out. I very much wanted to get the Bate 4 / Arnell 7 disc but it escaped my grubby hands.  :'(
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 01, 2020, 09:21:46 AM
I've enjoyed this disc recently.  A treasure trove of all-but-forgotten composers and arrangers.  Well (if not brilliantly) played by a British Army String Orchestra

(https://willowhaynerecords.com/DesktopModules/Revindex.Dnn.RevindexStorefront/Portals/0/Gallery/f2f1db95-56ca-466d-be23-086126908423.jpg)(https://www.bcafilm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PalacePremiers_CD_RearCover_1280.jpg)

A couple of real gems and except for the Bantock/Farnaby arrangements all premiere recordings......
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: vandermolen on October 01, 2020, 09:25:09 AM
I've enjoyed this disc recently.  A treasure trove of all-but-forgotten composers and arrangers.  Well (if not brilliantly) played by a British Army String Orchestra

(https://willowhaynerecords.com/DesktopModules/Revindex.Dnn.RevindexStorefront/Portals/0/Gallery/f2f1db95-56ca-466d-be23-086126908423.jpg)(https://www.bcafilm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PalacePremiers_CD_RearCover_1280.jpg)

A couple of real gems and except for the Bantock/Farnaby arrangements all premiere recordings......
Interesting. Allan Macbeth is a great name!
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 01, 2020, 10:40:51 AM
Interesting. Allan Macbeth is a great name!

I was given the library (sheet music) of the Hastings Sun Lounge Orchestra and for a few years I used that music to give concerts using that library with professional colleagues.  The trouble was it was all but impossible to cover costs let alone make any money from it!  In that library are two pieces by Allan Macbeth - the "Forget-me-not" Intermezzo included here - a real little charmer and another thing called "Gaily through the World" which I have no recollection of what it is like at all!  This disc is rather a gem because it includes some real treasures such as Fred Hartley's arrangements and Eric Thiman too.  The Ernest Markham-Lee is a modest delight as well.
Title: Re: The British Composers Thread
Post by: Papy Oli on October 01, 2020, 12:12:41 PM
I've enjoyed this disc recently.  A treasure trove of all-but-forgotten composers and arrangers.  Well (if not brilliantly) played by a British Army String Orchestra

(https://willowhaynerecords.com/DesktopModules/Revindex.Dnn.RevindexStorefront/Portals/0/Gallery/f2f1db95-56ca-466d-be23-086126908423.jpg)

A couple of real gems and except for the Bantock/Farnaby arrangements all premiere recordings......

Thank you for the heads-up on this one, RS. Saved to stream later.