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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Greta on March 21, 2008, 08:38:29 PM

Title: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Greta on March 21, 2008, 08:38:29 PM
Well, I went looking for a thread like this and found there wasn't one, so hence!

The requisite bio (with a funny picture): http://www.naxos.com/composerinfo/bio23323.htm

The very excellent official Hindemith site: http://www.hindemith.org/E/summary.htm

The great 20th century German composer, Paul Hindemith (1963), other fans? What are your favorite works?

I never knew his work that well, despite liking what I had heard, until the last year. One of my favorite music professors once named Hindemith as his very favorite composer, which made me curious to explore his music, and I have found that I really love most everything I've gotten to know so far.

For some reason, I identify strongly with his writing and find it harmonically fascinating, it strikes me as having a nobility and fluidity that seems to be quite particular to him.

Favorite Pieces:

The Four Temperaments, Mathis Der Maler Symphony, Symphony in Bb for band, Konzertmusik for brass and strings


I am getting into the Symphonic Metamorphosis too recently, it took a few listens but I am liking it more and more. The Turandot movement is wild!

And the String Quartets, they are amazing.  :D

Recommendations of other works to hear? His output is huge...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 22, 2008, 12:44:35 AM
Well here's a long time fan. I agree on your selected works and think the String Quartets in particular are very valuable (especially no 4 ) .

Add the wonderful set of "Kammermusiken" (Chailly) and the operas (Cardillac on DVD with Nagano is superb, though I love his one act operas as well) and you're set to go.

BTW don't miss the piano set Ludus Tonalis, and MDG has a wonderful set of his small scale sonatas for a relly assorted set of instruments (8 CDs worth  of it).

Go girl!

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Norbeone on March 22, 2008, 07:18:06 AM
I've really liked everything i've heard of him, though it's not much. His Piano Sonatas No.2 and 3 are great, as are some of hiss brass sonatas, though I can't remember which ones I liked so much. There's also a great piece for string orchestra I heard live, though I can't even remember that title either lol. Great help, aren't I?   ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2008, 08:02:28 AM
Hindemith is one of my favourite composers and I think that I have virtually everything he wrote for the orchestra on disc. To the extent that one can obtain his music on CD he has been most fortunate but his music is grievously underplayed in the concert hall. He is one of those composers whose star went into eclipse after his death in 1963. Nor was he helped by the fact that German music post war tended to put more emphasis on the avant-garde. Hindemith's music by the late 1950s and 1960s was regarded as ultra-conservative.

The German record label CPO did a wonderful job in putting most of Hindemith's music on disc with different Australian and German radio orchestras conducted by the enterprising Werner Andreas Albert. Individually there are greater interpretations/performances of individual pieces but the CPO box sets are a convenient way to assemble a Hindemith collection!

"nobility and fluidity"(Greta) is an excellent description of so much of Hindemith's music. He wrote a lot and some people have accused him of a lack of development over time. I suspect however that the trouble is that they don't actually take the time to listen to music which increasingly rewards with repeated listenings.

In addition to the works mentioned I would instance-

the other Symphonies-Symphony "Harmonie der Welt", Symphony in E flat, Sinfonia Serena and the Pittsburgh Symphony-each of which is an immensely rewarding work.

the extremely attractive and beautiful concertos-for Violin, Cello, Piano and Horn

the delightful Symphonic Dances

and the moving Requiem "Where Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd"

There is a lot of Hindemith to discover but huge amounts of pleasure to be obtained in the journey!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 22, 2008, 08:10:51 AM


and the moving Requiem "Where Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd"
How could I forget that!   >:(

On Whitman texts for the burial of Lincoln, written for Roosevelts burial IIRC. A most moving Requiem.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2008, 08:30:57 AM
How could I forget that!   >:(

On Whitman texts for the burial of Lincoln, written for Roosevelts burial IIRC. A most moving Requiem.

The Requiem was dedicated to the memory of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and was commissioned by Robert Shaw and the Collegiate Chorale three weeks after Roosevelt's death in April 1945. Hindemith did not actually start work on the Requiem until February 1946. The first performance was on May 14, 1946 in New York with Robert Shaw conducting. The version I have is the Telarc recording made 40 years later again with Robert Shaw and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra.

Roger Sessions set the same Whitman poem in his cantata of 1971.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mark G. Simon on March 22, 2008, 08:40:46 AM
Hindemith's music often lacks the "sex appeal" of other 20th century composers. It doesn't have the color of Stravinsky or Prokofiev, or the neuroses of Schoenberg and Berg, or the esoteric fascination of Webern. It doesn't go for extremes. But when you take it on its own terms it so often proves extremely satisfying.

I always thought "who the heck would want to write a concerto for trumpet and bassoon?", but I heard a performance of Hindemith's concerto for these two instruments a couple years ago, and it was wonderfully imaginative, complex and very fascinating music. Bravo Hindemith, and Bravo the orchestra that did such a fine job of playing it (the  Cayuga Chamber Orchestra in Ithaca, New York)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 22, 2008, 08:41:49 AM


Roger Sessions set the same Whitman poem in his cantata of 1971.
I've always wondered about this work. Anybody heard it?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2008, 08:54:34 AM
I've always wondered about this work. Anybody heard it?

I am listening to it again now! New World Records-Boston Symphony Orchestra/Seji Ozawa(1977).

Often quoted as one of Sessions's finest works and, no doubt, an imaginative setting of Whitman's verse but, I am afraid, that the composer's idiom is really not to my taste. I can recognise individual moments of beauty but the overall impression remains just too 'tough' for my ears.

Others will undoubtedly respond better to the music!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on March 22, 2008, 09:53:04 AM
Favorite Pieces:

The Four Temperaments, Mathis Der Maler Symphony, Symphony in Bb for band, Konzertmusik for brass and strings


I am getting into the Symphonic Metamorphosis too recently, it took a few listens but I am liking it more and more. The Turandot movement is wild!

And the String Quartets, they are amazing.  :D

Recommendations of other works to hear? His output is huge...

erato has already recommended the Chailly set of the Kammermusiken.  I've always really liked Der Schwanendreher, which is a viola concerto in all but name.  It was many years before I chased down a recording of it, but I also very much like the brass-harps-&-solo-piano Konzertmusik.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Guido on March 22, 2008, 11:50:37 AM
Concert Music for Brass and Strings, The Four Temperaments and the cello concerto of 1940 are three of my all time favourite pieces of music. It was in fact playing his Kleine Sonata for cello and piano that made me truly love music. His neglect in the concert hall is utterly criminal especially when there are so many works by him that are absolutely brillaint and would have very widespread appeal if they were given half the chance (notably the three mentioned above). The Kammermusik series is also brilliant, I obviously know the cello one best, but they are all terrific works.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 22, 2008, 12:48:24 PM
Don't know how I could have forgotten that lovely piece the Ballet Suite 'Nobilissima Visione'-a quite superb work of real visionary grandeur!

Doubtless Hindemith was not an innovative pioneer of the class of Bartok or Stravinsky, nor is his music of such immediate colour of, say, Prokofiev but I would certainly set him above, say, Martinu as a composer who continued to use a tonal base to construct music of sincerity and integrity. His music repays study. It is-in my opinion-an impressive body of work which gives much pleasure and deserves more exposure.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Greta on March 22, 2008, 11:24:37 PM
I've really liked everything i've heard of him, though it's not much. His Piano Sonatas No.2 and 3 are great, as are some of hiss brass sonatas, though I can't remember which ones I liked so much. There's also a great piece for string orchestra I heard live, though I can't even remember that title either lol. Great help, aren't I?   ;)

I forgot about the piano sonatas! Those I do have with Gould, I haven't ever really dug into them yet though.

I have heard his Trumpet Sonata live before at a recital, it is a lovely and interesting piece. Another fun piece to look up sometime is his Konzertstuck for two alto saxophones, excellent. The two players are very equal in the writing and is great the way the lines play off each other. I always wanted to perform it but it never worked out, both parts are not easy!


Quote from: guido
Concert Music for Brass and Strings, The Four Temperaments and the cello concerto of 1940 are three of my all time favourite pieces of music.

I have not heard the Cello Concerto yet!  :D I think The Four Temperaments and Mathis der Maler have got to be two of my favorite discoveries this year, the more I listen to them the more I have found to like!  For some reason, the "Sanguine" waltz movement has become probably my favorite bit of Hindemith of all right now.

Quote from: Dundonnell
His music repays study. It is-in my opinion-an impressive body of work which gives much pleasure and deserves more exposure.

Absolutely. His music sounds rather straightforward, even simple on first ear - but with more listens and study it reveals itself to be full of subtleties that make the music extremely rewarding to delve into.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2008, 06:28:22 AM
Looking through the list of compositions on the Hindemith website I discovered his big Oratorio "Das Unaufhorliche"(1931).

I had never heard of this work before but, apparently, it has been recorded by Lothar Zagrosek on Wergo. Anyone ever heard it-or, indeed, heard of it??
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 23, 2008, 06:36:41 AM
Looking through the list of compositions on the Hindemith website I discovered his big Oratorio "Das Unaufhorliche"(1931).

I had never heard of this work before but, apparently, it has been recorded by Lothar Zagrosek on Wergo. Anyone ever heard it-or, indeed, heard of it??
It was performed IIRC correctly in Norway (somewhere) last year, probably Oslo. So, I've heard OF it. Reputedly massive stuff.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2008, 06:42:43 AM
It was performed IIRC correctly in Norway (somewhere) last year, probably Oslo. So, I've heard OF it. Reputedly massive stuff.

I am very tempted to order the 2 CD set to find out! (Who am I kidding? of course I will!!!)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 23, 2008, 06:52:09 AM
Could you please provide a link to the Hindemith website?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2008, 07:01:18 AM
Could you please provide a link to the Hindemith website?

http://www.hindemith.org/
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 23, 2008, 07:12:35 AM
http://www.hindemith.org/
Thanks (easy BTW)! Now it's bookmarked.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: drogulus on March 23, 2008, 07:13:22 AM
   The Trauermusik was composed in a few hours for the funeral of George VI.

    It's available with the Mathis der Maler symphony on the excellent Blomstedt/SFSO (http://www.amazon.com/Hindemith-Symphony-Trauermusik-Symphonic-Metamorphosis/dp/B0000041UH/ref=sr_1_47?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206285630&sr=1-47) disc.

    Since this isn't a Youtube thread, I'll just link to these:

    Hindemith conducting Concert Music for Strings and Brass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BRFYc9LOw)

    Trauermusik (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRhU27ALHc)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Guido on March 24, 2008, 11:37:10 AM
I have not heard the Cello Concerto yet!  :D I think The Four Temperaments and Mathis der Maler have got to be two of my favorite discoveries this year, the more I listen to them the more I have found to like!  For some reason, the "Sanguine" waltz movement has become probably my favorite bit of Hindemith of all right now.


I recommend Raphael Wallfisch's account on Chandos which is coupled with a superb version of the Four Temperaments (Howard Shelley). If you can find it, there is also a superb live recording by Rostropovich, though PM me if you can't.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: pjme on March 24, 2008, 01:37:23 PM
   The Trauermusik was composed in a few hours for the funeral of George VI.

    It's available with the Mathis der Maler symphony on the excellent Blomstedt/SFSO (http://www.amazon.com/Hindemith-Symphony-Trauermusik-Symphonic-Metamorphosis/dp/B0000041UH/ref=sr_1_47?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206285630&sr=1-47) disc.

    Since this isn't a Youtube thread, I'll just link to these:

    Hindemith conducting Concert Music for Strings and Brass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BRFYc9LOw)

    Trauermusik (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRhU27ALHc)

Another Hindemith fan !
Trauermusik ( alto and strings) is a short but moving work. I have a Canadian performance ( Rivka Golani /Toronto SO /Andrew Davis) that I find excellent.
Many favorites have been mentioned. I discovered Hindemith's late ( 1962) Organconcerto in Anton Heiler's performance (with the Austrian Radio SO / Milan Horvath / Teldec ca 1988) . It is a big work; lasting ca 30 mins.
4 Movements :
1/ Crescendo - Moderato assai
2/ allegro assai
3/ canzonetta in triads , and two ritornelli : Moderato
4/ Fantasy on "Veni creator spiritus" : allegro moderato
The concerto was written for New York (Philharmonic Hall??) and prmiered in 1963.( Heiller / Hindemith / NYPO)
I find it an enormously rewarding work - art and invention and craft combined in a great structure .
There are some analogies,I think, with the 1945 pianoconcerto. Another half hour of really serious music ... but the composer manages to introduce all kinds of clever, melancholic or funny ideas that drive the work to its unexpected finale : a Medley on "Tre fontane" - a Mediaeval dance.
1/ Moderately fast
2/ Moderately slow
3/ Moderatlely fast (theme and 4 variations : Canzona/March/Valse lente/Caprice and medley on "Tre fontane" - fast)

I only know Siegriefd Mauser's ( excellent)version on CPO ( FRankfurt Radio SO / Werner Andreas Albert) . The concerto was written for Jesus Maria Sanroma. maybe a recording with this artist survives?

Peter
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: hautbois on March 26, 2008, 09:00:50 AM
erato has already recommended the Chailly set of the Kammermusiken.

The widely unknown Septet is also a charming one.

Howard
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on September 11, 2008, 09:04:31 AM
http://www.ondine.net/index.php?lid=en&cid=1&oid=3583

Mention of an early organ piece by Samuel Barber to be revived in Philadelphia soon(see the Barber thread) reminds me of the world premiere recording of Hindemith's rediscovered Klaviermusik(or should that be Concertmusik) for piano left-hand and orchestra written for Paul Wittgenstein in 1923. Ondine are recording a live performance by Leon Fleischer and the Curtis Symphony Orchestra in Philadelphia with Christoph Eschenbach conducting. The orchestra is-I believe-that of the Institute of Music in the city. The work will be coupled with Dvorak's New World Symphony-which will certainly potentially give the Hindemith greater exposure although as a less than devoted admirer of Eschenbach's work I don't really think that I want his Dvorak myself!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 11, 2008, 09:11:28 AM
The widely unknown Septet is also a charming one.

Gosh, I don't know it . . . what's the scoring, Howard?

. . . premiere recording of Hindemith's rediscovered Klaviermusik (or should that be Concertmusik) for piano left-hand and orchestra written for Paul Wittgenstein in 1923. Ondine are recording a live performance by Leon Fleischer and the Curtis Symphony Orchestra in Philadelphia with Christoph Eschenbach conducting. . . .

Splendid! That's a piece I am keen to hear.

I have been listening at least once per week to the piano/harps/brass Konzertmusik . . . brilliant, and wears very well, indeed.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mark G. Simon on September 11, 2008, 06:36:54 PM
The widely unknown Septet is also a charming one.

Howard

If I remember, it's a woodwind quintet plus bass clarinet and trumpet. I seem to remember rehearsing this piece with a group during my student days. I remember liking it.

Unless I'm remembering something else.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Sean on September 13, 2008, 09:27:32 PM
Just to mention that the Furtwangler recording of the symphony is among his finest, providing ravishing inner detail and visionary spendours indeed.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on September 13, 2008, 11:04:06 PM
I remember that what turned me into Hindemith a long, long time ago was the fun, inventive and occasionally beautiful "Schulwerk für Instrumental-Zusammenspiel op. 44" which I haven't heard for ages and virtually noone seems to record.

No for something else: There's a Wergo promotion om mdt. Anyone know the Wergo "Neues von Tage" and care to comment?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Superhorn on September 17, 2008, 06:20:10 AM
    Hindemith's  output  was  prolific,  and  somewhat  uneven,  and  his  music  can  be  rather  dry  at  times.  But  his  best  works(and  I  have  not  heard  everything)  are  fresh  and  inventive  and  far  from  dry.
   The  opera  Mathis  der  Maler , from which  the  symphony  is  drawn,  is  one  of  the  truly  great  operas  of  the  20th  century.  It  is  a  work  of  almost  Wagnerian  grandeur  and  emotional  power.  I  got  to  know  it  from the  superb  EMI  recording with  Fischer-Dieskau ,  and  Kubelik   conducting  on  LP  many  years  ago. This  has  recently  been  reissued   on  CD,  and  any  one  who  enjoys  the  music of  Hindemith  should  hear  it. I  have  not  heard  the  recent  live  recording  from  the  Hamburg  state  opera,  or  the  one  conducted  by  Gerd  Albrecht.   
   I  would  love  to  see  the  Metropolitan  opera  do  a  production,  perhaps  with  Bryn  Terfel  as  Mathis,  and  Christian  Thielemann  conducting.
   Now  that  would  be  something  to  look  forward  to.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 17, 2008, 06:25:16 AM
Just to mention that the Furtwangler recording of the symphony is among his finest, providing ravishing inner detail and visionary spendours indeed.

The Symphony in E-Flat? Excellent!  A marvelous piece, which has been too seldom performed.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on September 17, 2008, 06:39:52 AM
Well it could be the Symphony in E flat-and, if it is, I agree with your assessment of that piece.

But, of course, Sean doesn't enlighten us :(

He might be referring to the Symphony 'Mathis der Maler' or the Symphony 'Harmonie der Welt'.
Or perhaps the Symphony in B flat for Concert Band?
Or could it be the Symphonia Serena or even the Pittsburgh Symphony?

Perhaps he is less familiar with the symphonies composed by Hindemith than he is with those of Edmund Rubbra and Robert Simpson ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 17, 2008, 06:42:44 AM
Well it could be the Symphony in E flat-and, if it is, I agree with your assessment of that piece.

But, of course, Sean doesn't enlighten us :(

No.  I was going to post the question, Any symphony in particular?  But I elected to zag rather than zig . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Sean on September 17, 2008, 02:51:16 PM
I meant the Symphony 'Harmonie der Welt'.

I don't know if Furtwanger recorded the Eb symphony but it's nice to read of people who know the piece- quite an amazingly vigorous effort from Hindemith and surely among his best works.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 17, 2008, 03:36:46 PM
I meant the Symphony 'Harmonie der Welt'.

I don't know if Furtwanger recorded the Eb symphony but it's nice to read of people who know the piece- quite an amazingly vigorous effort from Hindemith and surely among his best works.

Thanks for the clarification; I had no idea you meant Harmonie der Welt.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Guido on April 21, 2009, 12:20:21 PM
Which of the Kammermusik's has that bit where all 12 scales (every major key) are played simultaneously? I can't remember which one it is... I adore this series of works so much!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Nick on April 22, 2009, 07:29:56 PM
What a great composer! To me, Hindemith's well in the Haydn category for underappreciated master.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Guido on April 23, 2009, 01:13:14 AM
Yeah! This whole tired addage that he was uneven or that he was too dry really doesn't fit with my experience of him at all...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: hautbois on April 24, 2009, 05:43:15 PM
I am performing the Sonata for oboe and piano today in a conservatory jury exam. The 2nd movement has one of the most beautiful and inspired melodies ever written in 20th century literature. Check it out!

Howard
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on April 25, 2009, 04:09:56 AM
Yeah! This whole tired addage that he was uneven or that he was too dry really doesn't fit with my experience of him at all...

Absolutely! Nothing 'dry' about Hindemith's music at all :)
Title: Re: Hindemith's "Die Harmonie der Welt" Symphonie
Post by: Cato on April 26, 2009, 03:06:15 PM
By chance I just happened to revisit this work, and I see some comments have been added here in the last day or so!  I have the Blomstedt/Gewandhaus recording on Decca.

Based on Hindemith's music for an opera on Kepler, it is a parallel composition to Prokofiev's use of music from The Flaming Angel for his Third Symphony.

It must rank as one of the best "unknown" major works from a major composer of the last century.
Title: Re: Hindemith's "Die Harmonie der Welt" Symphonie
Post by: Dundonnell on April 26, 2009, 04:36:43 PM
By chance I just happened to revisit this work, and I see some comments have been added here in the last day or so!  I have the Blomstedt/Gewandhaus recording on Decca.

Based on Hindemith's music for an opera on Kepler, it is a parallel composition to Prokofiev's use of music from The Flaming Angel for his Third Symphony.

It must rank as one of the best "unknown" major works from a major composer of the last century.

A superb work indeed! I have the Chandos/Tortelier version on cd but I also have an LP version with Mravinsky conducting the old Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra-a tremendous performance :)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Nick on April 26, 2009, 07:55:56 PM
I much agree with everyone's recent comments. Exploring and enjoying the complete Hindemith orchestral works has been one of my most recent projects although I don't have the expertise yet in his music to comment too extensively.

To all the Hindemith enthusiasts out there, take heart that there are definitely some people out there who put Hindemith in the top rank. A professor of mine (and now a big cheese) from Vassar College once told me that the 20th century composers who most impressed him were Bartok, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Copland, and Hindemith. Still, he's egregiously overlooked.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on May 23, 2009, 11:48:51 AM
Just finished listening to the new Ondine recording of Hindemith's 'Klaviermusik mit Orchester' for piano(left hand) performed by Leon Fleisher and the Curtis Symphony Orchestra conducted by Christoph Eschenbach.

This is the work written in 1923 for Paul Wittgenstein but never played by him and which remained the property of the pianist and then his widow. The score was kept in a locked room until 2002 when it finally was obtained by the Hindemith Foundation.

The Concerto is-very definitely-early Hindemith, lively and a touch brittle, no masterpiece but worth hearing for a more complete picture of the young composer. It is, by and large, well played by soloist and orchestra but is, most unfortunately, coupled with a decidedly uncompetitive version of the Dvorak 9th. The students of the Curtis Institute play with enthusiasm and commitment and at a live concert the performance would certainly pass muster but it is not a performance that one would want to listen to again when there are so many great recordings available. Nor is Eschenbach a particularly distinguished Dvorak interpreter on this evidence.

So Ondine gives us an 18 minute long concerto of interest and an uncompetitive Dvorak....whose bright idea at Ondine was that ???

(Wait a minute...I have just realised that the coupling did not stop me buying the cd ;D Hmm....but it might stop others less obsessed by 'completism'. Ok :))
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Brewski on May 23, 2009, 11:59:06 AM
Colin, I was at the New York premiere of the Hindemith and reviewed it, here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2006/Jul-Dec06/maazel0212.htm).  I was left with enough curiosity to be very glad to hear of a recording (although I am hardly in need of another Dvorak 9th, competitive or not  ;D). 

Thanks for the comments and I may succumb, myself.  ;D

--Bruce
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on May 23, 2009, 12:57:02 PM
Thanks for the linked review, Bruce :)

You are probably a little more enthusiastic about the Hindemith than I was. The early neo-classical Hindemith of the 1920s is less appealing to me than the music he wrote in the 30s and later :)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 03:48:36 AM
Not even the Concerto for Orchestra, Opus 38 (1925), Colin?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on May 30, 2009, 03:58:39 AM
Not even the Concerto for Orchestra, Opus 38 (1925), Colin?

Will try that one again, Karl :)

There is just not enough time in the day to play all the music I need to revisit :(
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 06:19:27 AM
Of course, two of my favorite Hindemith pieces (the Opp. 49 & 50 Konzertmusiken) he wrote in 1930 . . . the debatable 'border' of your earlier post, Colin  8)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Brewski on May 30, 2009, 10:44:05 AM
Was just looking at the New York Philharmonic's 2009-2010 season, and next March Riccardo Muti will be conducting the Symphony in E-Flat.  Also on the program is András Schiff in the Brahms First Piano Concerto.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 02:26:43 PM
Oh, I should be delighted to hear that piece live, Bruce!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on May 31, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
I'm just going to shout out my love for Hindemith's probably most maligned piece, the Octet ("Hindemith at his most manufactured", "ugly").

As I have it with the Berliner Soloisten on Teldec (w/Prokofiev chamber) it definitely comes across as one of those, "You have to play Hindemith perfectly, or it sounds like scheet" pieces (witness Sony/Marlboro). But they seem to do it, and I go back to it a lot. This, and Stravinsky's Septet make a nice, craggy pair. Perhaps along with Martinu's Nonet, this would make a great recital.

You don't hear too much love for late Hindemith (1957-63). If ever there was a composer who needed the greatest advocacy, Paul's the man!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 02:26:29 AM
You don't hear too much love for late Hindemith (1957-63).

Hmm . . . let me consider that.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dundonnell on June 01, 2009, 02:37:39 AM
Acccording to the website of the Hindemith Foundation-

http://www.hindemith.org/E/paul-hindemith/compositions.htm

Hindemith did not actually write very much between these years! There is the Octet(to which you referred) but the only other major works appear to be the 1958 Pittsburgh Symphony and the 1962-63 Organ Concerto-both of which are good without being amongst Hindemith's very best compositions-and the one act Opera "The Long Christmas Dinner"-which I know nothing about.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 03:01:45 AM
Hindemith did not actually write very much between these years! There is the Octet(to which you referred) but the only other major works appear to be the 1958 Pittsburgh Symphony and the 1962-63 Organ Concerto-both of which are good without being amongst Hindemith's very best compositions-and the one act Opera "The Long Christmas Dinner"-which I know nothing about.

I think I've been put off from that patch of his career, by a 'strong indifference' with which I met a recording of the Pittsburgh Symphony back around the time I was in Buffalo.  I recently revisited it in a different (and more recent) recording, but it continues to underwhelm me. YMMV.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on June 01, 2009, 06:26:50 AM

To all the Hindemith enthusiasts out there, take heart that there are definitely some people out there who put Hindemith in the top rank.

Count me in. And to all the words of praise for the Harmonie der Welt symphony - the opera is superb as well, and the Wergo issue is pure luxury production through and through!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 06:29:14 AM
I missed 1891's remark, but yes, Hindemith is definitely top-rank in my brochure.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2009, 08:13:51 AM
Leave it to Dun! ;D

The Pittsburgh and the Organ Sym. IS what I was thinking of, but, huh!, I didn't know that that was it.

Still, I really do love the Octet, warts and all. It's not particularly "appealing", and it IS a good example of my often herald "hardening of the language" spiel I mention concerning composers of his generation (Bloch, Chavez, Malipiero, Rosenberg, Rawsthorne etc. etc.) still working after WWII, and who, mostly, died in the 1960s. As such, I consider the Octet a goodbye to "classical" music, as the old guard gave up the reins to the 1960s, and I do think it's important to note that many of these composers were "bitter" that their kind of music was no longer considered even worthy (Englund?). Honegger comes to mind also (his last pieces).

I'd say, stay away from the Octet unless you can find the Teldec disc. I mean, the piece IS turgid and clotted and thick, but, as played by the Berliner Soloisten, all my problems melt away (think of Reger). If I hadn't heard this great performance first, I probably would have dismissed this beautiful ugly duck. The Martinu Nonet is great, but it's EASY to love (Martinu a good example of someone who sounded LESS bitter towards the end- just more magical).

Ha, I feel like I'm pleading for the life of a two headed cow!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2009, 08:20:38 AM
I was going to say I find the Octet less gnarly than the Clarinet Quintet, which reminds me of the Easley Blackwood cd of Hindemith clarinet music (some Asian clarinetist, John Woo, or something; is it Arabesque?). It has the Qnt.,Qrt., sonata, and two other pieces, I believe.

Karl, do you have this? I would love to know your review of the playing. As far as I can tell, the disc is absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 08:21:49 AM
I was going to say I find the Octet less gnarly than the Clarinet Quintet, which reminds me of the Easley Blackwood cd of Hindemith clarinet music (some Asian clarinetist, John Woo, or something; is it Arabesque?). It has the Qnt.,Qrt., sonata, and two other pieces, I believe.

Karl, do you have this? I would love to know your review of the playing. As far as I can tell, the disc is absolutely perfect.

I don't, but I really ought to have more Hindemith chamber music.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2009, 08:25:38 AM
One of my really really favorite works, period, is the Hindemith piece for piano, 2 harps, and brass...what is it called?..."something-musik" Op.39???

Phillip Jones did it on LP. The only recording I know is the Nimbus disc w/Janacek and Vackar. The Nimbus recording is a touch cavernous (a consistant problem with these folks), and the harps don't make the greatest impact. I seem to recall the PJBE recording (Decca?) was spot on.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: springrite on June 01, 2009, 08:26:05 AM
The Clarinet Quintet happens to be my favorite Hindemith work, and it was my introduction to the composer about twenty years ago, at a LA Phil chamber music concert at the Museum of Judaism where half of the people either left or booed the work (!) because they the bluehaired patrons considered it too modern! I loved it and bought a recording on the spot.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2009, 08:34:22 AM
Also, I have a great little little cd (forget the label-EVERYTHING'S been in storage for 6 months now) of the String Trios 1-2, which also includes an ok performance of the great solo cello sonata, and pieces for cello and bassoon! They are culled from 1970s recordings, a la Musical Heritage Society.

The string trios are substantial, one in his 20s style, the other on the cusp of Mathis (though it doesn't wallow so obviously in fourths...yet).

There aren't too many recordings of these works (CPO only offers the two trios), so this disc is a bargain if you can get it.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: springrite on June 01, 2009, 08:36:04 AM
I should add that my favorite works after the quintet are the viola sonatas and the Symphony in Eb. The work I have listened to the most times has to be the viola sonatas.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 08:40:24 AM
One of my really really favorite works, period, is the Hindemith piece for piano, 2 harps, and brass...what is it called?..."something-musik" Op.39???

Phillip Jones did it on LP. The only recording I know is the Nimbus disc w/Janacek and Vackar. The Nimbus recording is a touch cavernous (a consistant problem with these folks), and the harps don't make the greatest impact. I seem to recall the PJBE recording (Decca?) was spot on.

Konzertmusik, Opus 49 . . . one of my own very favorites, too!

I have two recordings, both of which I like very well:  one is the composer's own with members of the Berliner Philharmoniker;  the other, part of the voluminous Hindemith offerings on cpo.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 08:41:37 AM
. . . The work I have listened to the most times has to be the viola sonatas.

Mmm . . . these have (most unjustly, no doubt, as the composer was himself a formidable violist) been completely off my radar ere now. I thank you, Paul!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 01, 2009, 11:43:38 AM
I must admit that the 4 Solo Viola Sonatas are my least fav Hindemith. Part of this may be due to the claustrophobic recording on Helicon. I don't think the Julliard's viola player (name?) is to blame. I think these pieces are just Hindemith jamming out like a rock star, meaning, they don't really go for beauty, but are technically totally impressive. I mean, they DO go for broke, certainly meant to make violists scream! I just don't get any listening "pleasure" from them.

The 3 Viola Sonatas w/piano I like much better. Both the last violin, and last viola sonata are pretty majesterial?, though neither stays within my melodic comfort zone (which is not a put down; it's just that they are meaty and substantial). Probably my most fav violin sonata of all time, strictly for pleasure, is the E major violin sonata (@only 8min).
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on June 01, 2009, 08:55:16 PM
I have the above-mentioned recording of the octet, and it's terrific, but also a reminder that H generally did not make it easy for musicians to win the sympathy of listeners.

-and the one act Opera "The Long Christmas Dinner"-which I know nothing about.

AKA Das Lange Weihnachtsmahl. The very first recording of this was actually Japanese! Good for them.

(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/07/5/7/213.jpg) (http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/757213)
 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Catison on June 08, 2009, 02:48:26 AM
I just did some research, and it appears that Hindemith was a general and eventually leader of Germany.  I didn't know this.

See: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Paul_Hindemith
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Catison on June 08, 2009, 02:51:12 AM
I am listening to the 1963 Mass, and it is quite good.  I still have yet to hear the Pittsburgh Symphony, which will immediately be corrected following the Agnus Dei.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 08, 2009, 03:01:13 AM
I am listening to the 1963 Mass, and it is quite good.

Cor, but this has been entirely off my Hindemith radar . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Catison on June 08, 2009, 03:02:38 AM
Cor, but this has been entirely off my Hindemith radar . . . .

Oh you'd enjoy it, Karl, I know it.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on July 12, 2009, 01:05:13 PM
I miss Hindemith today: the sound of things irretrieveably lost.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Nick on July 20, 2009, 06:09:29 PM
By way of mention, The Four Temperaments is the greatest piece of dance choreography I've ever seen. I don't think the other very famous Balanchine ballets, Serenade, Agon, Square Dance, Jewels, Concerto Barocco, compare in quite the same way. And a great score!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Franco on July 29, 2010, 10:56:34 AM
Thought I'd bump this thread since I have spent most of today listening to the string quartets.

What good works!

The set I've got is by the Danish SQ, and not having heard any others there is no way for me to give voice to how they measure up other than to say that they are conveying the music in a very effective manner, one which has had me oftentimes transfixed.

After this run through, I have found the 4th and 6th the most immediately compelling, with 2, 3 & 7 less so, but still very very good music.  I have yet to hear #5 and am just about half way through #1, the Adagio of which contained some of the most beautiful music I've heard from Hindemith's pen.

Paul Hindemith has been a composer I've been interested in, and listening today to the quartets has only brought that interest to the foreground, and something I will follow up on with some purchases of more of his single instrument sonatas (I only have a few of these, and he wrote so many) and other chamber works.

Hindemith - yes, a very good composer.

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on July 29, 2010, 11:17:00 AM
Yes, I saw you were listening to the quartets; my curiosity is piqued.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Franco on July 29, 2010, 11:41:05 AM
I just finished hearing #5 and found it along with 4 & 6 first rate (ha) - so, for me 4, 5 & 6 are the core works with the others coming in behind them, in no particular order.

My next endeavor will be to get as many of the 18 Milhaud quartets as I can find.  There is a complete box listed as OOP (and no 3rd party sellers) on Amazon - but I  have not done an exhaustive search, so that may still pop up somewhere.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on July 31, 2010, 05:50:48 AM
I'm a longtime fan of Hindemith's quartets, and here's another nimportant cycle in another somewhat similar style you will enjoy:

(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/capricecap21353.jpg)

prestoclassical.co.uk seem to have all the discs in the series, there are 5 discs and 12 quartets in all.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on August 16, 2010, 03:53:21 AM
Weird to think that I haven't particularly listened to Hindemith's piano solo music.  Must correct that.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 13, 2010, 09:57:21 AM
And a month later . . .
 
I've now heard (though I can stand to live with the several recordings a good deal more) Ludus tonalis played by (in order of my hearing) Bernard Roberts, John McCabe & Olli Mustonen.  Each of the three recordings has its own character, and I think I like each; probably prefer John McCabe by something of a margin.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Franco on September 13, 2010, 10:34:42 AM
And a month later . . .
 
I've now heard (though I can stand to live with the several recordings a good deal more) Ludus tonalis played by (in order of my hearing) Bernard Roberts, John McCabe & Olli Mustonen.  Each of the three recordings has its own character, and I think I like each; probably prefer John McCabe by something of a margin.

I haven't heard the other two fellows, but the John McCabe recording is one I enjoy quite a bit.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Brahmsian on October 08, 2010, 06:54:02 PM
Oh my goodness, these are good!

Talking about Hindemith's 3rd and particularly the 5th string quartet.

Recording:  Julliard String Quartet on Wergo label.  Sorry, couldn't find a picture.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on October 08, 2010, 10:26:22 PM
Oh my goodness, these are good!

Talking about Hindemith's 3rd and particularly the 5th string quartet.

Recording:  Julliard String Quartet on Wergo label.  Sorry, couldn't find a picture.
One of the main contenders for 3rd best quartet cycle of the previous century (after Bartok and Shostakovich) IMO.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on January 05, 2011, 10:11:59 AM
The Hurwitzer (or should it be Hurwinator?) likes Hindemith! Who would have thunk?

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13133 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13133)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2011, 10:52:15 AM
the kammermusik set is fun...

For me, Hindemith doesnt really have a strong identity, he would often straddle and i find him much less appealing than other (greater) 20th century composers (i.e. Bartok, Stravinsky or Webern)...some of his stuff is fun but despite some worthwhile moments, I can pretty much take or leave all of what ive heard...


Besides the Kammermusik, I would be curious to know what you've actually heard by Hindemith? And when you list what you've heard, I would also like to know who the conductor and orchestra were that performed the work.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on January 05, 2011, 11:02:20 AM
The Hurwitzer (or should it be Hurwinator?) likes Hindemith! Who would have thunk?

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13133 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13133)

That's a nice program, and parallels a cpo disc I have with Brett Dean, the Queensland Symphony & Werner Andreas Albert. All lovely music!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: CRCulver on January 05, 2011, 11:49:14 AM
The Hurwitzer (or should it be Hurwinator?) likes Hindemith! Who would have thunk?

And it's a 10/10 review, how unexpected.   ::)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on January 05, 2011, 12:12:09 PM
And it's a 10/10 review, how unexpected.   ::)

Still hungover from NYE? ::) (him,..not you! :o)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on January 05, 2011, 12:20:38 PM
I'll take this opportunity to lift up the Oktett, because, at least on this treasured Teldec/Berliner Soloisten disc, I find it a Masterpiece of 1950's Neo-Classicism, or, Ultra-Late Neo-Classicism. It's strident, a bit unflattering and maybe even farty,... stentorian perhaps, but this performance reveals a somewhat Beethovenian piece, IMO, serious and with shellshocked humor.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on January 05, 2011, 12:27:50 PM
No, the Octet strident?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on January 05, 2011, 12:34:54 PM
No, the Octet strident?

You likey? No?

I'd say it has that Schoenbergian grumpiness, y'know?, just the demeanor?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on March 10, 2011, 11:32:09 PM
Listening to the Violin Concerto with Stern/Bernstein. This piece has such integrity, such nobility and poise and pacifism. I smell the alps. And the quartal harmonies are so interesting in their slight pungent difference from 'normal' harmony. Stern impressed me, navigating in all those close quarters.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Guido on March 12, 2011, 03:47:43 AM
Try the even more wonderful cello concerto from the following year...

Agreed that the violin concerto is excellent. Hindemith needs rebranding.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on March 12, 2011, 04:23:27 AM
While I generally like Hindemith, I haven't been able to get into either of those concertos. I do like what Walton did with the Cello Cto. theme in his Hindemith Variations, though.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on March 14, 2011, 06:12:34 PM
I'd say it has that Schoenbergian grumpiness, y'know?, just the demeanor?
For me, Hindemith is like Brahms in that, even when he gets very Serious, there's still a gruff smile under that spikey, forbidding beard. Not that Hindemith had a beard, but you know what I mean.

I still haven't gotten into the cello concerto, but then H rarely comes alive for me without the "right" interpretation.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on April 20, 2011, 04:44:58 PM
I'll take this opportunity to lift up the Oktett, because, at least on this treasured Teldec/Berliner Soloisten disc, I find it a Masterpiece of 1950's Neo-Classicism, or, Ultra-Late Neo-Classicism. It's strident, a bit unflattering and maybe even farty,... stentorian perhaps, but this performance reveals a somewhat Beethovenian piece, IMO, serious and with shellshocked humor.

Again took the Teldec Oktett with me today. I really like this music, really really. I like the way he breaks up the instrumentation, I like the themes, I really like the performance and recording...

Also listened to SQ No.5 (or 6,... the first Eb, the more 'famous' one). This one has also a nice smoothness, very much the Mercedes of SQs in its sleek lines and purring... you know, that German engineering thing in music! ;)

One of my favs is that Delos disc of The Four Temperaments and Noblisse Visione(sic).
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on April 20, 2011, 05:43:48 PM
I much prefer Der Schwanendreher (The Swan-Turner) to the Violin Concerto. Much more tuneful and lyrical. I like the Benyamini/Barenboim recording (reissued with Steinberg's Mathis symphony and Konzertmusik Op.50 on Australian Eloquence). Zimmermann/Shallon on EMI lack the necessary warmth IMO.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: DavidW on April 26, 2011, 12:42:16 PM
What are your favorite recordings of Hindemith's string quartets? :)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Lethevich on April 26, 2011, 12:58:02 PM
I can vouch for the quality of the CPO cycle, but a single disc I really enjoy is this one:



They really play the music as though the performers feel it is "great" and can stand alongside such a companion composer. I don't entirely agree about that for the cycle as a whole, but perhaps this disc proves me wrong :)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on April 26, 2011, 07:16:06 PM
What are your favorite recordings of Hindemith's string quartets? :)

I have the Praga set. I like the last two SQs (in Eb) a lot, and the very last one does certainly qualify for Consideration, as does the other, more 'famous' one. I also have the 'famous' Eb on the VoxBox set,... I would consider both recordings 'homey' in their own way.

I consider the first four SQs (without the very very first one) to be pretty, uhm,... busy. I guess I prefer Bartok here.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on April 26, 2011, 07:29:20 PM
Concert Music for Piano, Brass, and Harps Op.49

This is one of my favorite Hindemith pieces. I heard it first on the Philip Jones Decca (?) LP, and found the Nimbus/Wallace Collection recording a satisfactory substitute. The piece is an odd Piano Concerto, in essence, with a very plagent(sic) and funereal pace that I find delicious. The piano is foiled by 2 harps, and the whole ensemble never plays together, hence the very cold and marble like demeanor. I think this piece makes a great impression, and would be perfect for a foggy sunrise on Lake Como!

Concert Music for Brass Op.41

This is another rare piece I've come to know through the Hunsberger/CBS recording. This piece probably has more in common with the third Concert Music, the 'famous' one, being more extrovert than the previously discussed piece. Along with the Morning Music, I'm beginning to have a real affinity for Hindemith's brass writing.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on April 26, 2011, 08:41:33 PM
I can vouch for the quality of the CPO cycle, but a single disc I really enjoy is this one:



They really play the music as though the performers feel it is "great" and can stand alongside such a companion composer. I don't entirely agree about that for the cycle as a whole, but perhaps this disc proves me wrong :)
Agreed on both counts. Perhaps that should be all counts, I also agree that the Bartok cycle is in a class of its own, only superseeded by Beethoven, Hinedmith doesn't match that exalted level.

There's also a Testament disc with the Hollywood Quartet including one of Hindemiths quartets that is very good (Penguin Rosette):

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/SBT1052.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on May 28, 2011, 07:29:58 PM
I'm on a Hindemith kick!

Yay!!

As it figures, I am soooo tired of Orchestral Music that, as I was looking over the Library trying to figure out what to Get (should I send vanderdunnell a mss.?), the TraditionalChoice came up as Hindemith.

I don't have much of his Orchestral Works: the Ormandy Mathis/Weber, the Violin & Cello Concertos, and some of the Brass Music. I used to have the Chandos Harmonie/Serena disc,... don't know why I sold it (is Blomstedt better?). Oh, and I also have that great Delos/DePriest disc. Used to have the Piano Concerto (eh).


Has anyone heard the Organ Concerto? The Pittsburgh Symphony?


I was looking at the EMI and DG sets of Hindemith-Conducting-Hindemith. They look really scrumptious, I must say, as a Starter Kit, haha!! Hindemith's Music really does come alive when it is played right.


Did I say I was on a Hindemith kick?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on May 29, 2011, 05:20:32 PM
I didn't much like the Blomstedt set. I don't think he has enough guts for this music, which always sounds best when the performers are a bit manic. Haven't heard the organ concerto. Have one record of the cello concerto which doesn't do much for me. Nor does the Pittsburgh, of which I have a couple of recordings. I have the Abbado set of the Kammermusik, but don't listen to it. Haven't yet found a recording of the Harmonie symphony which does it for me.

The EMI and DG sets are both good and necessary for any solid Hindemith collection. I particularly treasure the DG disc of the Symphonic Dances and The Four Temperaments (a piano concerto).
There's an Eloquence disc of the Mathis symphony conducted by Kletzki, Metamorphoses conducted by Abbado, and the violin concerto with Oistrakh and the composer, which is good value. Another Eloquence disc has Music for Brass and Strings conducted by Steinberg, and the Der Schwanendreher with Benyamani conducted by Barenboim, a lyrical performance which I greatly prefer to the one included in the Abbado set mentioned above. I haven't got any of the Tortelier CDs, but what I've heard has been pretty good.

There is also supposed to be some good stuff in the chamber music, but all I have is the late Octet, which is quite neat.
 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: listener on May 29, 2011, 09:55:31 PM
If it hasn't occurred to you that Hindemith might have had a sense of humour, listen to these two pieces for string quartet : Ouverture zum "Fliegende Holländer"...  and "Minimax"   - like a Charles Ives from Bavaria.
As an infamous subtitle said "Sweet memories of this will bite me forever".
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie: Serena/Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 02, 2011, 12:03:13 PM
I'm listening to Blomstedt's Symphonia Serena/Symphonie "Die Harmonie der Welt" (Decca), and recall having the Tortelier many years ago. Not that the performance reminds, rather, I remember, "Oh, this is the Music that has In a Gadda da Vida buried in the first mvmt.", haha. And, it does, no?

I totally respect these 'Symphonies', and, in these stellar performances by the Gewandhausorchester (a surprise since I thought it was San Fran), one can simply luxuriate in the orchestral textures, and the polyphony. The Music itself I find to be kind of anonymous, which, in this case, I count as a Great Compliment: the Music has a fairly generic nobility that, in a way, does encompass the whole world (perhaps in a Vernesian sense?).

I do like the Epic way Harmonie opens, and the opening of the finale, too. However, we have a PostWar context here, which I think highlights a certain Germanic quality here,... I don't know, it sounds like perfect Reich Music to me. :-[ It has a certain Secular Bureauocracy(?),...mmm,...eh?

I just find these two works together to be quite a rich meal in all, very satisfying, without being so overpowering as to give you indigestion. The musical equivalent to beef bourgingon(?)?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie: Serena/Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on June 02, 2011, 05:13:55 PM
The Music itself I find to be kind of anonymous,

I would say that's courtesy of the conductor.
 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie: Serena/Harmonie
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 02, 2011, 11:45:34 PM
I just find these two works together to be quite a rich meal in all, very satisfying, without being so overpowering as to give you indigestion. The musical equivalent to beef bourgingon(?)?

Nice description...I have that Tortelier disc also (never heard Blomstedt). Both are solid works, tho' I don't rank them as high as Mathis der Maler. BTW, I have a strong suspicion that the Serena formed the inspiration for Vaughan Williams' 8th Symphony - the breakdown of the ensemble for different mvts. is very similar, as well as the overall untroubled mood.

Snip, do you know the Symphony in Eb? It may be my favorite Hindy piece of all. I've got Tortelier in that too.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie: Serena/Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 03, 2011, 06:50:45 AM
Snip, do you know the Symphony in Eb? It may be my favorite Hindy piece of all. I've got Tortelier in that too.

I've got the Boult on order (30 cents!!),... used to have that Bernstein Royal Ed.


But, please guys, do you not hear Gadda da Vida in Serena, towards the middle/end of the 1st mvmt.?


I was also listening to the two minor concertos, one for bassoon&trumpet, and one for winds&harp. Cutesy,... but not much to say.


I would say that's courtesy of the conductor.
 

I mean anonymous more in the rounded corners of Hindemith's melodic lines. These pieces aren't as 'Pop' as Mathis (grand swelling, singable, bah bah bah), is what I mean,... I think they're more brain food than heart food,... I don't mean anonymous in a bad way: you can still tell it's Hindemith, but he's just not being uber obvious, like in Mathis. I mean, simply on a pre-school level, Beethoven's No.5 makes a lot of things sound fairly generically the same. Y'know what I mean?

Walter Piston's 5/7/8... now those I feel are anonymous in the sense I don't like.




Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie: Sonata for 4 Horns
Post by: snyprrr on June 03, 2011, 06:55:38 AM
The Sonata for Four Horns is one of the last Hindemith pieces to make my acquaintance. I think there is a fairly terrible YouTube by the Cambridge group,... sorry,... but,... there appears to be a few really cracking recordings.

A recording on ebs, "4X4", gots some great Amazon reviews, and the samples reveal an extraordinary blend. Other supergroups also have nice blends (though, that first one really made an impression). Does anyone have this piece?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 06, 2011, 02:43:13 PM
Have now sprung for the cpo string quartets set.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 07, 2011, 03:05:23 AM
The Sonata for Four Horns is one of the last Hindemith pieces to make my acquaintance.

That piece I had not heard of before, but it sounds like it must be sweet.

BTW, I am astonished that you have not responded at all to my string quartet purchase
; )
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Organ Concerto (1962)

This, Hindemith's last piece, seems also to be his rarest. Currently, there is only one recording, on Teldec/Apex (1980; 2003), other than the obligatory CPO release.

I seem to recall the Penguin Guide poo-pooing this work, saying it was in Hindemith's best 'ugly' tradition, which has only made me want to hear this work more! They also didn't like the Oktett, so, I figured, Who can I go wrong?

Surprisingly, the Concerto opens mysteriously. Marked 'Crescendo- Moderato assai', this is a very powerful mvmt., and true to word, is an orchestral crescendo that left a very intrigued impression.

The scherzo gets a bit thick 'n' thorny, and one can see where PG's opinion might have come from. Still, I find it very interesting, Hindemith writing this in 1962.

The slow mvmt., again, continues in this almost Horror Movie fashion. I know I'm throwing you off with that description, but there is a darkness here that makes one think this was written after 1963. Huh? There's no tunable humming here: it all sounds very serious, with thicks clouds of black smoke belching from PostWar Industry.

The finale is titled 'Phantasy on "Veni creator spiritus"', and does remind of Hindemith's earlier variations. The closer we get to the end, the more Mathis-y it gets. I'll stop here and continue on till the end.

Why does this remind me of Pettersson? Sounds nothing like it, but... ??
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2011, 08:36:25 AM
Organ Concerto (1962)

This, Hindemith's last piece, seems also to be his rarest. Currently, there is only one recording, on Teldec/Apex (1980; 2003), other than the obligatory CPO release.

I seem to recall the Penguin Guide poo-pooing this work, saying it was in Hindemith's best 'ugly' tradition, which has only made me want to hear this work more! They also didn't like the Oktett, so, I figured, Who can I go wrong?

Surprisingly, the Concerto opens mysteriously.

Why surprisingly?  A lot of my favorite organ-playing experiences open quietly, in a way which seems eerily to peek out from the vast space.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 09, 2011, 11:34:52 AM
Why surprisingly?  A lot of my favorite organ-playing experiences open quietly, in a way which seems eerily to peek out from the vast space.

I'm saying for PH,... I've never heard him open 'up from the depths' so to speak, and I've never heard a mvmt. entitled 'Crescendo' from him. I just thought it was quite a Last Work,... for PH to end with an Organ Concerto,... in 1962, in a style that probably wasn't all that hip at the time,... hmm, it's begging me to hear again, perhaps when the afternoon storm starts (hear you'll be getting a doosey tonight! why not cue up the OC, and we'll discuss?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie: Serena/Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 23, 2011, 08:11:22 AM
Nice description...I have that Tortelier disc also (never heard Blomstedt). Both are solid works, tho' I don't rank them as high as Mathis der Maler. BTW, I have a strong suspicion that the Serena formed the inspiration for Vaughan Williams' 8th Symphony - the breakdown of the ensemble for different mvts. is very similar, as well as the overall untroubled mood.

Snip, do you know the Symphony in Eb? It may be my favorite Hindy piece of all. I've got Tortelier in that too.

I've been listening to Boult/LPO for two days now. I really like it. Grey, but not too. All the PH hallmarks are there, just in a fairly serious mode. It was one of the first fruits of his emigration, so Germany looms here. A very solid Nordic symphony! ;) It's the kind of straightforward piece that I can listen to over and over on an overcast day.

I don't remember that Bernstein Royal Edition I used to have, but this Everest recording delivers the goods just fine. Sounds better the louder you go.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 27, 2011, 10:20:53 AM
Symphony in Bb for Band (1951)

For $100,000: how many Klavier and Citadel cds is this piece on,... c'mon c'mon!! :-*

I just got this perky little "The President's Own" United States Marine Band cd, which also includes Copland and Persichetti, and they dooo play 'well', haha!! ::) No,... really!! ;) This is quite a perfect little Band album.

The Hindemith was written for a genre with, to quote, "no literature", and does what it sets out to do. There's no need for analysis, it's just vintage Hindemith in three movements. Obviously, it's all in the delivery, and this performance ain't DiGiorno, let me tell ya! Somehow, I AM conforted knowing the Marine Band is playing, haha! ;) ;D 8)

Hindemith is such a meat & potatoes kind of Composer. :-*
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on June 27, 2011, 10:26:41 AM
Symphony in Bb for Band (1951)

For $100,000: how many Klavier and Citadel cds is this piece on,... c'mon c'mon!! :-*

I just got this perky little "The President's Own" United States Marine Band cd, which also includes Copland and Persichetti, and they dooo play 'well', haha!! ::) No,... really!! ;) This is quite a perfect little Band album.

Nice! I've got that band playing Berlioz, nice outfit.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on June 27, 2011, 04:47:06 PM
Please take your meds, snyprrr. I can't tell what the hell you're on about :(
 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 27, 2011, 05:35:13 PM
Please take your meds, snyprrr. I can't tell what the hell you're on about :(

huh?,... was it the delivery, or the DiGiorno??


I was just saying it's a very good brass cd,... the rest was just pepperoni! ;D
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on June 27, 2011, 06:23:09 PM

Pizza! Now there's something I can understand.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on August 14, 2011, 07:53:14 PM
Has anyone heard the Berlin Classics with Kegel conducting? I was just curious about the quality of these performances. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on August 15, 2011, 03:55:13 AM
Has anyone heard the Berlin Classics with Kegel conducting? I was just curious about the quality of these performances. Thanks in advance.

He's been mentioned favorably in the 'Mathis' Thread in 'Recordings'.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on August 15, 2011, 10:18:09 AM
He's been mentioned favorably in the 'Mathis' Thread in 'Recordings'.

Cool, I'll check that out, snyprr.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Christo on August 15, 2011, 11:28:58 AM
A personal favourite ever since I first heard it on one of the very first LPs I was able to buy, back in 1976, has been the Fünf Stücke für Streichorchester / Five Pieces for String Orchestra Op. 44, from 1927.

There appears to be no modern recording available on CD format. Why is it that unknown?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: edward on August 15, 2011, 02:26:42 PM
A personal favourite ever since I first heard it on one of the very first LPs I was able to buy, back in 1976, has been the Fünf Stücke für Streichorchester / Five Pieces for String Orchestra Op. 44, from 1927.

There appears to be no modern recording available on CD format. Why is it that unknown?
It is indeed an excellent and highly enjoyable work. It's available on a single cpo CD



and the box set containing this CD



Also, the ASMF/Marriner recording has recently been reissued as part of a Marriner/20th Century boxset



and also as a single disc as part of an Australian Eloquence reissue:

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on August 15, 2011, 04:42:34 PM

The Eloquence disc is excellent, except that the movements of the transcribed Fugitive Visions are not tracked individually.
 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on August 15, 2011, 06:36:35 PM
Bought the Blomstedt Hindemith recordings tonight:



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61npPKbtj5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on August 15, 2011, 06:48:54 PM
Bought the Blomstedt Hindemith recordings tonight:



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61npPKbtj5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I wasn't earlier aware that the 'Harmonie' cd was with the Gewandhaus and not SanFran. Let me know if one can tell the dif. I only have the Gewandhaus,... I'm feeling reticent about the other two, though I love'em in the Roger Sessions/John Harbison.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on August 15, 2011, 07:01:10 PM
I wasn't earlier aware that the 'Harmonie' cd was with the Gewandhaus and not SanFran. Let me know if one can tell the dif. I only have the Gewandhaus,... I'm feeling reticent about the other two, though I love'em in the Roger Sessions/John Harbison.

My understanding is that these are legendary performances. Blomstedt was master in Hindemith.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 28, 2011, 03:26:33 AM
. . . He wrote Trauermusik in a matter of hours. Only Mozart could do that.

Not really. There's a great story of Shostakovich writing his Festive Overture, for only one instance . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on September 28, 2011, 05:04:35 AM
Not really. There's a great story of Shostakovich writing his Festive Overture, for only one instance . . . .

Are you like DSCH and HVL, who could write in front of a construction site, or, are you like me, who cannot write unless Pharaoh-like conditions of peace and inspiration prevail?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: karlhenning on September 28, 2011, 05:15:00 AM
Not sure I could compose in front of a construction site. I've certainly composed while riding in a bus past a working construction site, though . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on September 28, 2011, 04:35:35 PM
Not sure I could compose in front of a construction site. I've certainly composed while riding in a bus past a working construction site, though . . . .

"Turn around, driver, we're going again."
 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on September 28, 2011, 05:29:21 PM
"Turn around, driver, we're going again."

"Look kids, Big Ben!"
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on September 28, 2011, 05:42:22 PM
March of the Coldstream Guards plays across a panorama of Picadilly Square. Black cab rams into red double decker bus and bursts into flames. The end.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on September 28, 2011, 07:03:19 PM
March of the Coldstream Guards plays across a panorama of Picadilly Square. Black cab rams into red double decker bus and bursts into flames. The end.

...actually ;D,... that was a quote from European Vacation. Remember, haha? ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on September 28, 2011, 07:15:31 PM
Not a film I'm greatly familiar with, though I do recall the sausage joke. I assumed the line was something from the Simpsons.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on September 28, 2011, 07:24:48 PM
Not a film I'm greatly familiar with, though I do recall the sausage joke. I assumed the line was something from the Simpsons.

Rusty...WHAAAAAAT?? :o?? :o?? :o

(great crashing sound... glass... thud)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Christo on October 11, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
It is indeed an excellent and highly enjoyable work. It's available on a single cpo CD


and the box set containing this CD


Also, the ASMF/Marriner recording has recently been reissued as part of a Marriner/20th Century boxset


and also as a single disc as part of an Australian Eloquence reissue:


I stand completely corrected.  :-X 8)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on December 13, 2011, 01:14:57 PM
Symphonic Dances

I have just been turned onto these by the wonderful Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt EMI retrospective. HS-I apparently didn't like parts of these, and tossed a movement, and rearranged the remainder. What I hear is as much a Symphony as Nobilissima Visione is. The slow movement is beautifully plagent(?), and all three movements exhibit Hindemith the orchestrator at his lushest. Surely the title is deceptive, these are not to be overlooked!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eyeresist on December 14, 2011, 09:28:53 PM
Listen to the WHOLE thing.

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2011, 07:17:29 AM
Listen to the WHOLE thing.



 :-[ ;D :-[ ;D :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 15, 2011, 07:22:42 AM
The Hindemith Conducts Hindemith is obligatory!!!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: CRCulver on February 06, 2012, 05:09:10 PM
Can someone recommend books on Hindemith? I know a few biographies, but I'm really looking for analysis of the music.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 07, 2012, 04:59:52 AM
Hm, I should be interested in an answer to that, myself.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Scion7 on April 06, 2012, 06:13:46 PM
http://www.hindemith.org/E/hindemith-institute/publications.htm (http://www.hindemith.org/E/hindemith-institute/publications.htm)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie - books
Post by: Scion7 on April 06, 2012, 06:51:40 PM
I did a 44-pg 400-level college paper on music under the Third Reich, and of course Paul H figured highly.  One of my main sources was:

Author   Skelton, Geoffrey.
Title   Paul Hindemith : the man behind the music : a biography / by Geoffrey Skelton.
Publication Info.    London : Gollancz, 1975.
Description    319 p., [8] p. of plates : ill., facsims., music, ports. ; 23 cm.
Bibliography    Bibliography: p. [297]-298.
"Chronological list of works": p. [299]-308.
Note    "Gramophone recordings by Paul Hindemith": p. 308-310.
Includes index.
Subject   Hindemith, Paul, 1895-1963.
ISBN    0575019883

Both the "biography" and musicology content are very good.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 01, 2012, 06:46:40 AM
I have the Skelton, have had practically from the first I knew of Hindemith! Should really revisit the book.

And now, finally digging into the string quartets!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Scion7 on May 01, 2012, 07:10:18 AM
Although we can say many composers should have lived longer,
one of these that stands out to me is Paul H.  With more time I
think he would have/been commissioned to compose more of those
delightful chamber works for diverse instruments.  He just didn't
get a chance to go thru the many combos that he didn't write for.

Dang it.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on May 01, 2012, 07:41:11 AM
I have the Skelton, have had practically from the first I knew of Hindemith! Should really revisit the book.

And now, finally digging into the string quartets!


What do you think? I love the last two, but seriously have issues with the first four (not counting No.'0', found later). 1-2 form a pair, as do 3-4. I find all of them very busy and dark, like unattractive '70s Metal, especially 3-4, though, I think I need to listen to them more in a Bartok manner perhaps. I need some pointers here.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Cato on May 01, 2012, 07:53:51 AM
Can someone recommend books on Hindemith? I know a few biographies, but I'm really looking for analysis of the music.

Try this book by Guy Rickard:

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 01, 2012, 08:30:05 AM
What do you think? I love the last two, but seriously have issues with the first four (not counting No.'0', found later). 1-2 form a pair, as do 3-4. I find all of them very busy and dark, like unattractive '70s Metal, especially 3-4, though, I think I need to listen to them more in a Bartok manner perhaps. I need some pointers here.

Just revisited the Op16 Quartet in C (№ 3, N.S.)

Myself, it is a pitch-world which I find immediately likeable, and I have only admiration for the style, composition, manner.  Truth is, I don't know that I've heard any chamber music of Hindemith's to which I have not taken a fancy.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 01, 2012, 08:32:45 AM
Try this book by Guy Rickard:



Looks nice! I've read books from that series on Debussy, Stravinsky, Sibelius, Bartók, & Prokofiev.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: pjme on May 01, 2012, 11:18:25 AM
I bought that Phaidon book only a couple of days ago. The FNAC shops in Belgium had them almost all at a discount price : 4,5 €.!
Don't forget the great Hindemith website at http://www.paul-hindemith.org/

 and discover Paul's brother Rudolf! http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hindemith

Peter
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Scion7 on May 01, 2012, 11:34:41 AM
Well, of course, Hindemith's string quartets have nothing to do with 'heavy metal' or any other rock music.

I like all of them.  The later ones are the best.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Cato on May 01, 2012, 01:43:38 PM
I bought that Phaidon book only a couple of days ago. The FNAC shops in Belgium had them almost all at a discount price : 4,5 €.!


Synchronicity!

Be sure to tell us what you think: the 3 H''s might not replace the 3 B's in people's minds, but...   8)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Scion7 on May 01, 2012, 02:27:08 PM
Handel, Haydn, and Hindemith?   ???
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Cato on May 01, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
Handel, Haydn, and Hindemith?   ???

Handel, Haydn, and Hummel?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: edward on May 02, 2012, 05:20:46 AM
I remember being somewhat underwhelmed by Rickards' Three Hs book when I read it--whether that was me or the book I don't know (as I like all three composers it should've been grist to my mill).

Agree with those who note that pretty much every Hindemith they've heard has been worthwhile; I think sometimes (as with a figure like Martinu) his sheer compositional fluency sometimes gets in the way of realizing how damn good some of the music is.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Elnimio on May 02, 2012, 06:40:52 AM
Well, of course, Hindemith's string quartets have nothing to do with 'heavy metal' or any other rock music.

I like all of them.  The later ones are the best.

Can you really say that, though? They have similar, energetic and cacophonic attitudes, which fans of heavy metal and similar genres could find appealing.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 03, 2012, 08:23:54 AM
Cardillac, what a blast!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on May 03, 2012, 09:37:17 AM
This is such a lovely production:

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 03, 2012, 09:38:52 AM
Nice! Thanks for the heads-up.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on February 12, 2013, 09:42:29 AM
Wow, the last post in this thread was in May 2012. Time to revive it! :)

Has anyone heard this opera?

(http://www.silverdisc.com/images/4/4010228665222.jpg)

I bought this quite some time ago and I remember hearing some excerpts thinking to myself "I need to buy this recording NOW!" But other composers' music can calling and I put this opera aside. Also, is Kubelik's Mathis der Maler on EMI worth picking up?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Cato on February 12, 2013, 09:55:55 AM
Wow, the last post in this thread was in May 2012. Time to revive it! :)

Has anyone heard this opera?

(http://www.silverdisc.com/images/4/4010228665222.jpg)

I bought this quite some time ago and I remember hearing some excerpts thinking to myself "I need to buy this recording NOW!" But other composers' music can calling and I put this opera aside. Also, is Kubelik's Mathis der Maler on EMI worth picking up?

I only know the symphony based on the opera: for the latter, yes, I believe I can recommend it, although it is not in the same league as his early masterpiece Cardillac.

Still, anything with Kubelik at the helm and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (whose performance in Cardillac you should find!) is always worth your time!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on February 12, 2013, 09:59:51 AM
I only know the symphony based on the opera: for the latter, yes, I believe I can recommend it, although it is not in the same league as his early masterpiece Cardillac.

Still, anything with Kubelik at the helm and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (whose performance in Cardillac you should find!) is always worth your time!

Thanks, Cato. Do you know Die Harmonie der Welt? In particular, the recording I have pictured?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Cato on February 12, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Thanks, Cato. Do you know Die Harmonie der Welt? In particular, the recording I have pictured?

Not the opera, no: this is one of the gaps in my musical experience!   0:)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on February 12, 2013, 10:23:55 AM
Not the opera, no: this is one of the gaps in my musical experience!   0:)

Okay, thanks. By the way, do you have a large Hindemith collection? I was surprised to find that I have a larger collection of his music than I realized.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on February 12, 2013, 10:50:32 AM
I have it. It's fabulous.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on February 12, 2013, 10:57:05 AM
I have it. It's fabulous.

Will definitely be giving it a spin. So would you say Janowski is up for the challenge?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on February 12, 2013, 11:01:44 AM
Yes. Travelling now...so short.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 29, 2013, 04:25:48 PM
To Hindemith fans, what is the one work written for orchestra you think is most underrated? I'm still in the process of exploring all of his works for orchestra.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 29, 2013, 04:30:33 PM
I need to check out the organ sonatas.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 29, 2013, 07:11:12 PM
Speaking of the organ, I'm anxious and curious to hear Hindemith's organ concerti. Thank goodness for CPO and their smart moves of boxing up their Hindemith orchestral series.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 29, 2013, 08:59:51 PM
Symphonic Dances

I have just been turned onto these by the wonderful Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt EMI retrospective. HS-I apparently didn't like parts of these, and tossed a movement, and rearranged the remainder. What I hear is as much a Symphony as Nobilissima Visione is. The slow movement is beautifully plagent(?), and all three movements exhibit Hindemith the orchestrator at his lushest. Surely the title is deceptive, these are not to be overlooked!

Yes, the Symphonic Dances are fantastic! I visited the Albert performance tonight on CPO and this was a first-listen for me. I loved the work.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on March 30, 2013, 07:13:35 AM
Yes, the Symphonic Dances are fantastic! I visited the Albert performance tonight on CPO and this was a first-listen for me. I loved the work.

I pulled out some PH this week:

Pittsburgh Symphony: gruff, bluff, and rough. I like PH's craggy Late Works.

Organ Concerto: same,... dark and not so friendly. I like it!

Symphony 'Die Harmonie der Welt': I have that Blomstedt disc,... this one is harder for me, but I certainly like it. It's maybe not the absolutely most characteristic work, though, perhaps, for a certain creative period. That is one meaty cd, what with the Symphonia Serena also.


Maybe it's time to dip into the Kammermusik (Chailly)?

Or, rather, the Ludus Tonalis?

I have a great weakness for the Octet, specifically in the Teldec recording.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 30, 2013, 05:24:05 PM
I pulled out some PH this week:

Pittsburgh Symphony: gruff, bluff, and rough. I like PH's craggy Late Works.

Organ Concerto: same,... dark and not so friendly. I like it!

Symphony 'Die Harmonie der Welt': I have that Blomstedt disc,... this one is harder for me, but I certainly like it. It's maybe not the absolutely most characteristic work, though, perhaps, for a certain creative period. That is one meaty cd, what with the Symphonia Serena also.


Maybe it's time to dip into the Kammermusik (Chailly)?

Or, rather, the Ludus Tonalis?

I have a great weakness for the Octet, specifically in the Teldec recording.

I LOVE all orchestral works I've heard by Hindemith so far. I have yet to listen to the Organ Concerto, but I imagine this being right up my alley based on your description. Pittsburgh Symphony is a nice work. I haven't heard it in years. I have two performances of it now, but the one I heard was Tortelier's on Chandos. His whole Hindemith series is worth hearing IMHO.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 30, 2013, 05:50:32 PM

(http://www.silverdisc.com/images/4/4010228665222.jpg)\

I still haven't listened to this opera. :-\ But this will change on my next days off. I would like to give the Kammermusik works another fresh listen. I don't know whether to listen to Chailly's or Abbado's. I would also like to listen to works like The Four Temperaments, the concerti for violin, viola, cello, organ, horn etc., Concerto for Orchestra, and Der Dämon.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 31, 2013, 12:55:27 AM
This recording of Die Harmonie was one of my 10 "CDs of the year" (a list I used to compile) around 4-5 years ago. It's a wonderful set, and I've posted on it here in the listening thread once upon a time.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 31, 2013, 04:09:55 AM
I pulled out some PH this week:

Pittsburgh Symphony: gruff, bluff, and rough. I like PH's craggy Late Works.

Organ Concerto: same,... dark and not so friendly. I like it!

Symphony 'Die Harmonie der Welt': I have that Blomstedt disc,... this one is harder for me, but I certainly like it. It's maybe not the absolutely most characteristic work, though, perhaps, for a certain creative period. That is one meaty cd, what with the Symphonia Serena also.


Maybe it's time to dip into the Kammermusik (Chailly)?

Or, rather, the Ludus Tonalis?

I have a great weakness for the Octet, specifically in the Teldec recording.

Is that the same as has been reissued on Apex (Berlin Soloists)?

Personally, I have found Ludus tonalis endlessly fascinating.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on March 31, 2013, 06:47:10 AM
This recording of Die Harmonie was one of my 10 "CDs of the year" (a list I used to compile) around 4-5 years ago. It's a wonderful set, and I've posted on it here in the listening thread once upon a time.

Thanks, erato. I'll definitely be giving it a spin pretty soon.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on March 31, 2013, 07:47:32 AM
Is that the same as has been reissued on Apex (Berlin Soloists)?

Yes, the performance/recording match here is perfect. Must be best available? Sony/Marlboro not as refined. Stop.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 02, 2013, 11:11:01 AM
I'm really impressed with the Concerto for Orchestra and Sinfonietta in E have any of you heard these works? About to give the Pittsburgh Symphony another listen as it's been years.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on April 02, 2013, 12:47:30 PM

Besides the Kammermusik, I would be curious to know what you've actually heard by Hindemith? And when you list what you've heard, I would also like to know who the conductor and orchestra were that performed the work.

Still waiting on this reply from James. ::)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on May 16, 2013, 07:16:05 AM
Let's add Hindemith to the roster. What do you think? These four Composers have a lot in common,... or, maybe not??
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 16, 2013, 08:23:33 AM
What roster is that, snypsss?

Meanwhile, I like Hindemith a great deal. Heck, I even think well of the string quartets  ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: kyjo on September 02, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
Interesting-looking release due out soon from Naxos:

(http://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.573201-02.gif)

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573201-02

A more fitting release for this two-disc set would be "Complete Works for Piano and Orchestra" IMO. After all, Hindemith only composed one work entitled "Piano Concerto". ::)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on September 02, 2013, 06:06:11 PM
Love Hindemith, but won't be buying anymore recordings of his music until I make it through all of the orchestral sets on CPO, which I bought a few years ago.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on September 04, 2013, 05:20:53 AM
Interesting-looking release due out soon from Naxos:

(http://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.573201-02.gif)

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573201-02

A more fitting release for this two-disc set would be "Complete Works for Piano and Orchestra" IMO. After all, Hindemith only composed one work entitled "Piano Concerto". ::)

The first movement of the PC is one of my fav Hindemith moments, but, doesn't it eventually get a bit bombastic towards the end? The Albany recording has certainly needed some competition, haven't heard the CPO. But, the PC is worth hearing.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 25, 2013, 09:31:17 AM

Interesting-looking release due out soon from Naxos:

(http://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.573201-02.gif)

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573201-02 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573201-02)

A more fitting release for this two-disc set would be "Complete Works for Piano and Orchestra" IMO. After all, Hindemith only composed one work entitled "Piano Concerto". ::)

The first movement of the PC is one of my fav Hindemith moments, but, doesn't it eventually get a bit bombastic towards the end? The Albany recording has certainly needed some competition, haven't heard the CPO. But, the PC is worth hearing.

Oh, I'll snaffle that one up just for the sake of the Op.29 which he wrote for Paul Wittgenstein, a piece I've been curious to hear ever since I learnt of it.

Back to the Harmonie der Welt symphony, I love the contrabassoon lick in the last movement.  And yes, one of these days I'll listen to the entire opera . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: milk on November 25, 2013, 05:12:26 AM
"...though Hindemith's spartan, mid-period harmonic palette still makes for difficult listening." - Tim Ashley, The Guardian, Review of Ludus Tonalis by Berezovsky. I don't know what this guy is talking about. This is fascinating music, enjoyable from beginning to end. I have the John McCabe rather than Berezovsky. Anyway, I discovered this thanks to the fine folks at GMG (Mr. Henning!). I wonder what it is that Mr. Ashley finds so difficult? 
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 25, 2013, 06:44:18 AM
Mr Ashley puzzles me there, as well . . . I just find it absorbing to listen to.

McCabe is probably my favorite (and I owe that tip to Luke Ottevanger here at GMG);  I also have Olli Mustonen (that contriversial Finn), and Bernard Roberts.

One of these days, I shall apply myself to comparing the two versions of Das Marienleben . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: CRCulver on November 25, 2013, 06:48:51 AM
"...though Hindemith's spartan, mid-period harmonic palette still makes for difficult listening." - Tim Ashley, The Guardian, Review of Ludus Tonalis by Berezovsky. I don't know what this guy is talking about.

Reminds me of an anti-modernism screed I read sometime back that lumped Hindemith in with Boulez and Stockhausen, all of them writing intolerable noise that audiences don’t want to hear. Made me wonder briefly if I have something wrong with my ears, because of 20th-century repertoire, nothing strikes me as more unobjectionable for a subscriber audience than Neoclassical composers.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie HINDEMITH SLAM
Post by: snyprrr on May 15, 2014, 06:59:48 AM
GMG Hindemith Festival 2014

Welcome!

We have quite a programme planned for the week's festivities, please, take a brochure and get yourselves comfortable. This afternoon's concert will be open air, weather permitting, and will present a selection of Hindemith's Chamber Music for Winds, with a wonderful performance by the Berliner Soloisten of the wonderfully craggy 'Octet' as the centrepiece.

Clarinet Quartet (or Kliene Kammermusik)
Clarinet Sonata
Duo for cello and bassoon

Harp Sonata

Tuba Sonata
Sonata for Four Horns

Octet


Then, this evening, we have a great lineup, including the 'Concert Music for Piano, Brass, and Harps, Op.49', the Bb Symphony for Band (played first), and finishing with the big Eb Symphony. Surely you will want to get there early for the maestro's lecture.

Tomorrow morning's concert will kick off with the 'Morgenmusik' for brass, and then present more of Hindemith's wonderful Wind Music.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie HINDEMITH SLAM
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 15, 2014, 07:14:33 AM
the wonderfully craggy 'Octet'

I just sampled this, and I'm impressed by it. Seems to be pretty obscure - not many recordings. Any you wish to rec? I found an old LP which has it, plus Hindy's solo viola sonata.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: 7/4 on May 15, 2014, 11:04:09 AM
I love his solo piano music.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie HINDEMITH SLAM
Post by: snyprrr on May 15, 2014, 11:52:59 AM
I just sampled this, and I'm impressed by it. Seems to be pretty obscure - not many recordings. Any you wish to rec? I found an old LP which has it, plus Hindy's solo viola sonata.

I'm sold on the Berliners on Teldec. Great performance and sound.

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie HINDEMITH SLAM
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 15, 2014, 12:00:02 PM
I'm sold on the Berliners on Teldec. Great performance and sound.

Snip, to my utter amazement, someone is selling the Marlboro recording for over $1000. With a price like that, it's gotta be good, eh?:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00FZ0QGQC/ref=sr_1_10_np_1_main_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1400170037&sr=1-10&condition=new

The vinyl I found is Fine Arts 4tet + NY Wind Ensemble. Very obscure, apparently never CD'ed.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie HINDEMITH SLAM
Post by: snyprrr on May 15, 2014, 03:22:10 PM
Snip, to my utter amazement, someone is selling the Marlboro recording for over $1000. With a price like that, it's gotta be good, eh?:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00FZ0QGQC/ref=sr_1_10_np_1_main_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1400170037&sr=1-10&condition=new

The vinyl I found is Fine Arts 4tet + NY Wind Ensemble. Very obscure, apparently never CD'ed.

Sound on the Marlboro is festival 'live'... eh... Teldec's the only way to go here imo.

Yea, LOTS of things are being cornered in this way. Snap stuff up whilst it's cheap!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Ken B on May 15, 2014, 05:01:04 PM
Mr Ashley puzzles me there, as well . . . I just find it absorbing to listen to.

McCabe is probably my favorite (and I owe that tip to Luke Ottevanger here at GMG);  I also have Olli Mustonen (that contriversial Finn), and Bernard Roberts.

One of these days, I shall apply myself to comparing the two versions of Das Marienleben . . . .
Roberts?
I liked his Beethoven so when I saw it dirt cheap picked up his WTC. In short, he couldn't play it. Whenever there was a quick trill or something like it there was a lag as he got his hands back into normal position. The result was and unending stream of small lurches. Unendurable. This was late in his career. Was the LT recording from some time ago?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eoghan on August 13, 2014, 11:31:23 AM
I love Hindemith. But let's not kid ourselves - his music IS dry as dust, and it is grey. But that allows the listener to concentrate on the music itself - the melodies, harmonies and orchestration. And that, cotrary to what several people have said above, is utterly distinctive - there's a very definite Hindemith sound that couldn't be anyone else.

My favourites - the Nobilissima Visione suite, the Symphony in Eb (both on the Tortelier recording with the BBCPO), the Funf Stucke for strings (an absolute love of mine since, no doubt like hundreds of other people, I played it at university...it was just written as a set of exercises after all, but that didn't stop Chopin or Rachmaninov from writing outstanding tunes and it didn't stop Hindemith either!) I have the Funf Stucke on an old LP on Supraphon I think. I also love the Kammermusick (I've got the Chailly recording).

The concertos I struggle with somewhat - I love the first movement of the cello concerto but then it fades away a bit, while the viola concerto takes a while to warm up for me (I love the last movement). I feel that the spiky Hindemith sound works best with multiple instruments and experimenting with colour, rather than a single instrument. The violin concerto is very likeable though.

I don't know the operas at all, though I've given Sancta Susanna a few listens (mainly being attracted by the subject matter, although perhaps "attracted" isn't the best choice of words).

Are there any particularly good Hindemith interpreters? My love of Hindemith probably wont extend to buying multiple recordings of any piece! Is the "Hindemith conducts Hindemith" generally seen as the last word?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on August 13, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
My kind of man. To mention a few things; Lawrence Powers viola works on Hyperion, the MDG recordings of the smaller sonatas, the Wergo operas (Harmonie der Welt being particularly brilliant); Naganos Cardiillac on DVD, the Amar quartet discs on Naxos.....
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Rons_talking on January 13, 2015, 10:40:54 PM
While some of Hindemith's music can be dry as 50s Martini (see Ludas Tonalis..not a knock on it, I'm a fan) many of his works have warmth and are touching. They all have interesting harmonic turns. The complete opera Mathis Der Maler is my favorite work of his though it is only heard in Symphony form these days. If anybody knows where I can find the complete opera (CD or streaming) I'd like to know. Kubilik made a recording in the 1970s, I believe. Much of the music not included in the symphony is excellent. He scores so well for voice. I used to be able to stream the opera on RDIO but they yanked it. The E-flat Symphony is also a favorite. The Sonata for Horn in F as well...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Daverz on January 13, 2015, 10:51:30 PM
Mathis der Maler

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 14, 2015, 03:16:18 AM
While some of Hindemith's music can be dry as 50s Martini (see Ludas Tonalis..not a knock on it, I'm a fan) many of his works have warmth and are touching. They all have interesting harmonic turns. The complete opera Mathis Der Maler is my favorite work of his though it is only heard in Symphony form these days. If anybody knows where I can find the complete opera (CD or streaming) I'd like to know. Kubilik made a recording in the 1970s, I believe. Much of the music not included in the symphony is excellent. He scores so well for voice. I used to be able to stream the opera on RDIO but they yanked it. The E-flat Symphony is also a favorite. The Sonata for Horn in F as well...
All excellent selections.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Fagotterdämmerung on January 14, 2015, 07:26:51 AM
  Hindemith is very hit-and-miss for me, but I was listening through a lot of harp music recently and found myself quite enjoying his Harp Sonata. Surprisingly "rustic" sounding for him.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 14, 2015, 07:32:00 AM
  Hindemith is very hit-and-miss for me, but I was listening through a lot of harp music recently and found myself quite enjoying his Harp Sonata. Surprisingly "rustic" sounding for him.

Do you know the Op.49 Konzertmusik for piano, brass & two harps?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Fagotterdämmerung on January 14, 2015, 11:19:22 AM
Do you know the Op.49 Konzertmusik for piano, brass & two harps?

I do now.  0:)

Thanks for the recommendation. Hindemith was so productive I'm sure I've just scraped the surface.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 13, 2015, 10:10:11 AM
Not sure just why I hadn't heard the Violin Concerto (1939) until today.  A warmly witty ending.  Some passages which felt like overlap with certain bits of Shostakovich (not a slur upon either composer).
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dax on February 13, 2015, 10:22:26 AM
Do you know the Op.49 Konzertmusik for piano, brass & two harps?

A great piece!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Rons_talking on February 15, 2015, 05:49:35 PM
Do you know the Op.49 Konzertmusik for piano, brass & two harps?

One of my favorites!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on February 15, 2015, 07:59:12 PM
One of my favorites!

+1
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on February 16, 2015, 08:16:38 AM
Not sure just why I hadn't heard the Violin Concerto (1939) until today.  A warmly witty ending.  Some passages which felt like overlap with certain bits of Shostakovich (not a slur upon either composer).

REALLY???????Huh...

I must warn against ANY version other than the Stern,... and I think the 'Prince Charles' version even has a re-mastering that makes it sound even better (though, that could just be in my head). The other issue has the Stern Hindemith with the massive Penderecki VC,... now that's a real keeper there!!

I love the opening...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on February 16, 2015, 08:21:19 AM
Do you know the Op.49 Konzertmusik for piano, brass & two harps?

The Philip Jones Brass Ens. recording has never been issued on CD. I have a pretty good recording on Nimbus. One must watch out for the sound quality here, as those two harps need to be somewhat up-front. There aren't too many recording of this,... hopefully the PJBE will be released one day,... if you find the Nimbus cheap, that may be the way to go (but, you know that Nimbus "sound" is always pretty big, as far as airy space is concerned,... that's why I'd like to hear the PJBE again).

But, some very moving music there...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Rons_talking on February 16, 2015, 04:13:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/rMe-RGkUfb0

Glenn Gould talking Hindemith and playing the brilliant Fuga from PS3. I love that term of Gould's: "Contrapuntal Jamboree."
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on February 17, 2015, 07:34:14 PM
Concerto for Orchestra, anyone? ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2015, 07:38:00 PM
Concerto for Orchestra, anyone? ;)

Sure! A very cool work that has unfortunately been rather neglected on disc.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie KONZERTMUSIK series
Post by: snyprrr on February 17, 2015, 07:48:58 PM
I think there are three works with the title 'Konzertmusik', but, I might be getting some things mixed up. The is the work with two harps mentioned above, the famous brass and strings work made for Boston(?), and a third work for brass ensemble which I have on an old Donald Hunsberger CBS CD.

That third work sounds great on that particular issue, and is quite reflective of the boisterous Hindemith, along with the plaintive harmonies of the slower sections. I can't imagine a better recording, which also includes Vaughn Williams and Copland's 'Quiet City',... oh, and the Husa piece, so, yes, this is also a plug for the disc!

What's the standard for the big orchestral one, Lenny?

Sure! A very cool work that has unfortunately been rather neglected on disc.

Have you heard the "big" Cello Sonata? No, I get these confused. I have one from 1949, but there's another...


Otherwise,... Hindemith,... what comes to mind?

Nobliesse Visione & The Four Temperaments

Which I also have to plug the DePriest Delos disc, sumptuous!

That wonderful opening to the Mathis der Maler Symphony

That funeral piece for viola and strings??????

One of my favourites,... the E Major Violin Sonata,... oh, and the Violin Concerto (Stern only, please),...

Gould in the piano works...

The surprising late Pittsburgh Symphony and Organ Concerto...

The last two SQs, both in Eb...


Oh, and the Octet (Berliner Solisten/Teldec, ONLY, please)

It's such an acerbic work, you really need the refined playing and the refined recording to absorb the work's ugliness and reveal its inner beauty, I love this work muy mucho. Like Schoenberg's Piano Concerto...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie KONZERTMUSIK series
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2015, 08:24:31 PM
Otherwise,... Hindemith,... what comes to mind?

A few works pop into my mind almost immediately: Der Schwanendreher (possibly my favorite Hindemith work), Konzertmusik for Brass and String Orchestra (Op. 50), Nobilissima Visione, Mathis der Maler Symphony, Trauermusik, and the Kammermusik series.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 15, 2016, 06:29:25 AM
I'll be setting up shop here for a while.

Where to start?...

I love the tiny E Major Violin Sonata, so melodic.

Smooth Hindemith, or raucous Hindemith, hmm, which will it be?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 22, 2016, 02:49:29 PM
Kammermusik No.1
Kleine Kammermusik


I started off Hindemith Month with these two, from the Chailly set. Already, Hindemith's humorous take, and deft craftsmanship made me like it better than, say, Ibert's 'Divertissement'. As far as I know, this has to be counted as one of the great "flapper" works of the post-WWI era, and I mean all that jazzy crap everyone was doing at the time- at least the Composers with a bone of humor in their body/. Schoenberg? Humor? Eh.

It really doesn't matter the melodic material, the music is oom-pah grotesquerie that sounds like a large marching band with piano and accordion in tow. Hindemith keeps the musical games churning quickly, and I don't find a dull moment. Music for Stalag 69?

The quintet is just as fun, as it should be. The rest of the Kammermusik Cycle is a little heavier- unless someone knows which is the most exuberant ??!!! I needed some light Hindemith, and his more brass oriented works seem to deliver (though, there are exceptions).

I'm not overwhelmed by earlier Hindemith, as much of it is wild and wooly of the sort I usually stay away from- his first two String Quartets are great, and substantial, but not my favorites. I don't know what else of his 20's music I would enjoy. I tend to start liking him more when the fourths arrive en masse.


But, these two pieces breathe fun air! ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Jo498 on June 22, 2016, 10:30:51 PM
The Kammermusiken are amongst his best pieces, I guess, but the first one is the wildest by some margin. There is a jazz-inspired short Piano suite (sometimes called "1922" or so) as well.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on June 23, 2016, 01:13:00 AM
The Kammermusiken are amongst his best pieces, I guess, but the first one is the wildest by some margin. There is a jazz-inspired short Piano suite (sometimes called "1922" or so) as well.
They are very good, but some of the operas are even better. The Chamber Music and some of the concerted pieces contains multiple gems as well.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 23, 2016, 02:21:30 AM
I've given up trying to figure out what our snypppss is lookin' for  8)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 23, 2016, 05:51:56 AM
I've given up trying to figure out what our snypppss is lookin' for  8)

Oh come now!

Music that pays for its own drinks AND is good in bed!! ;)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 23, 2016, 10:24:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/gX91pvaO0vY
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Scion7 on June 23, 2016, 05:09:59 PM
snyprrr will find catharsis in the organ sonata.   >:D
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 25, 2016, 12:51:29 PM
snyprrr will find catharsis in the organ sonata.   >:D

I have them with the Concerto, Teldec. yes, I've always liked'em,... obviously the 3rd the most. I'm not ready for them yet in this audition...
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie HINDEMITH MONTH CONT.
Post by: snyprrr on June 25, 2016, 01:05:21 PM
Alto Horn Sonata
Horn Sonata
Morgenmusik
for Brass Quintet
Konzertstuck for 2 Saxophones


I continued my Hindemith Month with the above, and was pleasantly surprised by the Alto Horn Sonata this time, by its more introspective nature than the rest of the Brass Sonatas. Even with Gould's recitation, or just with it, this piece has just a little extra something special in the mood category.

The proper Horn Sonata, the longest of the bunch, seems almost of the verge of being the poster child for the criticism that Hindemith could be too academic and dull. I rather like the anonymity here, for the technique is flawless and smooth as a Benz. I'd call it "classy". I want to hear it again...

I didn't want the bluff humour of the Tuba Sonata, and wasn't ready for a lot of trumpet, so, the Trombone Sonata will probably be up next.


The 6min. Morgenmusik is just plain old delicious Hindemith fourths and fifths... Christmassy


And the two sax pieces totally come from the other end, all 20s jazzy Germanic rollin'... I had this on a random BIS Modernistic disc, but there it was. Wish it were rather with other discmates...



Probably the Octet coming up next (I ONLY RECOMMEND THE TELDEC!!!)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: snyprrr on June 27, 2016, 06:15:40 AM
Neues von Tage Overture

7mins. of Hindemithian boisterousness (Virgin/Rickenbacker)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 27, 2016, 06:23:27 AM
(I ONLY RECOMMEND THE [N.]!!!)

Oh, if you knew how you make me smile every time you post like this.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie SYMPHONIA SERENA
Post by: snyprrr on July 01, 2016, 07:28:42 PM
Symphonia Serena
Symphonic Dances


These two works have some gloriousness about them. Today the weather produced clouds and wind and sun in glorious concert with Hindemith: he is one of few Composers who could still make a "musical smile" before the "destruction of the language" of the 50s and 60s. Here, Hindemith is in the middle of his greatest period of masterpieces.

The Symphonia Serena, as played on the Blomstedt disc, (well, ok, the disc is a classic)- here it reminds me of a trip to the Smithsonian. The first movement has a theme that disconcertingly reminds me of 'In A Gadda Da Vida', do you know what I'm talking about? But, this "riff" is pretty cool in Hindemith's hands; he wields it well without making it sound clunky. There is a certain sense of understatement that permeates all movements, and the following "Beethoven" march has the delicacy of Reger.

The slow movement features... is it four violins, two of which are "in the wings"? There is an antiphonal effect here that is most ingratiating. This whole Symphony seems like it is woven on cloth, so "homey" is the feel here. With the finale we close a most satisfying conclusion.

(oy, my writing is in the shitter lately...)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 01, 2016, 07:43:06 PM
That's one of the calmest posts I've ever seen from you.

Thank you, Paul Hindemith. Behold, the power of Art.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie DIE HARMONIE DER WELT SYMPHONY
Post by: snyprrr on July 03, 2016, 08:37:46 AM
Symphony 'Die Harmonie Der Welt'

The flip-side of 'Symphonia Serena'. Here, the melodic contours aren't as bold and fresh, more in Hindemith's "anonymity" style, but the grandeur and splendor are inherent from the outset, a burst/splash of fizzing cymbals and rolling drums followed by the brass fanfares. Over the course of three large movements, Hindemith again gives the feeling of a large woven cloth coloured in the "olden style", but with the newer harmonies of the 20th century.

What can one say about the two works together other than they form quite a peak for Hindemith's symphonic writing, and sound just like great music? I mean, that's all I hear, instantly- music I want to hear through, in a recording (Blomstedt) that captures a world-class orchestra is sumptuous sound.

This has TO BE THE #1 Hindemith disc- how can there be argument? Sure, what?, the Steinberg? DePriest (well.....)? There are a few contenders out there, but, for the epicness of it all, you just can't beat the full orchestra.




Am I right that the 'Musica Mundana' is "earth" music, so that is why it starts off in the lower regions and builds to an "earth shattering" climax like none other?




Anyhow... I would argue against the Chandos. Anyone?
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie WHO TO GET FOR VIOLA+ORCHESTRA??????
Post by: snyprrr on July 03, 2016, 08:40:07 AM
Cortese (ASV)
Dean (CPO)
Schmidt (Koch)
Power (Hyperion)

I ASSUME that the Power is the way to go?





AND- what of the Idil Biret 'Complete Piano Concertos' on Naxos? Looks great!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 06, 2017, 04:36:58 AM
Gramophone has a thoroughly positive review of the Wergo issue of The Long Christmas Dinner (about which I have been curious for a long time), so I've gone ahead and pulled the trigger.

Oh, and for Das Nusch-Nuschi, too . . . another opera for which I have let my curiosity languish, unappeased, for too, too terribly long.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2017, 07:42:33 AM
I've spent some time listening to The Long Christmas Dinner for each of the last three or four days, and I spent more time with the libretto last night, and I find it tremendously impressive.  Touching, at times unalloyedly enchanting, it is an opera which I feel ought to be standard repertory.  If, ten years ago (and this is probably the fault of the reader, not of the author), I had read the Wilder story, I might have had no patience with it;  here, the music flows so naturally, has such engaging profiles, carries on so confidently, that the setting obliterated any prejudice I might have entertained against the text.  This sounds like an odd thing to say about a piece which remains next door to unknown, but I think it one of the best operas of the 20th century.  And I am not done;  I expect to spend another week in the piece's sonic company.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2017, 10:08:11 AM
Quote from: Giselher Schubert
As recently as 1977, a production in Rome [of Sancta Susanna, Op.21] caused the director of the opera house to be fined.

Hindemith’s Opera Trilogy (http://americansymphony.org/hindemiths-opera-trilogy/)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: North Star on January 12, 2017, 10:24:33 AM
I've spent some time listening to The Long Christmas Dinner for each of the last three or four days, and I spent more time with the libretto last night, and I find it tremendously impressive.  Touching, at times unalloyedly enchanting, it is an opera which I feel ought to be standard repertory.  If, ten years ago (and this is probably the fault of the reader, not of the author), I had read the Wilder story, I might have had no patience with it;  here, the music flows so naturally, has such engaging profiles, carries on so confidently, that the setting obliterated any prejudice I might have entertained against the text.  This sounds like an odd thing to say about a piece which remains next door to unknown, but I think it one of the best operas of the 20th century.  And I am not done;  I expect to spend another week in the piece's sonic company.
This recording of the original English text does look intriguing, indeed...

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2017, 10:42:51 AM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread -

Expanding my Hindemith collection a bit (I blame Karl ;) ) -

(http://pxhst.co/avaxhome/9c/0d/000c0d9c.jpeg) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/977/MI0000977383.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/618yZmT-c5L._SS500.jpg)

I'm quite interested in a lot of those Wergo recordings. The two above seemed rather interesting to me, especially since When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd: A Requiem for those we love (gee, that's a mouthful :) ) will be completely new to me. I've heard great things about the work. There are several other performances like the Robert Shaw/ASO on Telarc and Sawallisch's on Orfeo, but I figured I'd stick to the Wergo since I've always been most impressed with their label.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 12, 2017, 10:45:28 AM
This recording of the original English text does look intriguing, indeed...



Aye.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Cato on January 12, 2017, 11:27:37 AM
Hindemith’s Opera Trilogy (http://americansymphony.org/hindemiths-opera-trilogy/)

Leon Botstein and the American Symphony Orchestra are gems ignored by too many Americans.

They have performed things (often for the first time in America)e.g. Franz Schmidt's Notre Dame, Sergei Taneyev's Oresteia, in addition to pushing the works of American composers past and present.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2017, 11:42:44 AM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread -

Blaming Karl, Part II:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51q8pQ-LQdL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81fXENMFG7L._SL1391_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71i8a4ejYdL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71x8Q2JfgVL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: vandermolen on May 10, 2017, 10:26:00 PM
Greatly enjoying this CD. Best performance I know of Mathis der Maler. I think that Steinberg was a fine conductor:

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 11, 2017, 03:44:41 AM
Greatly enjoying this CD. Best performance I know of Mathis der Maler. I think that Steinberg was a fine conductor:



I owned that CD, back when  0:)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Parsifal on July 31, 2017, 07:19:46 AM
At the moment, I've decided to direct my limited listening time to going through the cpo Orchestral Music set, conducted by Werner Andreas Albert with a variety of Australian orchestras. (15 discs in all). Probably I've heard 1/3 of this music over the years in various recordings.

I've gotten through disc 1 and part of disc 2. That gets me Amor und Psyche, Noblissima Visione, Philharmonische Konzert, Metamorphosen of Karl Maria von Webern, and Lustige Sinfonietta. So far I am impressed with the sense of energy and rigor that Hindemith brings to the music. I hear music which is certainly tonal, but in which Hindemith introduces his own harmonic peculiarities. He gives me the impression of an artist with high ideals and ambitions, but with a touch of the iconoclast, producing music which often includes a wink, or a touch of irony or the sarcastic. Of the pieces I have listened to thus far, Listige Sinfonietta deserves mention. Written during the horrors of WWI by a 21 year old Hindemith, later depreciated by the composer and unperformed until 1980, it is overtly 'merry' as the title implies, but with hints of dark events in the background. So far, the performances strike me as well rehearsed and confident, and the audio is first rate.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: millionrainbows on July 31, 2017, 08:59:16 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41J5NJwxyJL._SX425_.jpg) I remember someone saying that Hindemith was more fun to play than to listen to. This was my first Hidemith, and a "Music Minus One" play-along disc, with the Sonata for Flute and Piano.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Parsifal on July 31, 2017, 09:03:54 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41J5NJwxyJL._SX425_.jpg)
I remember someone saying that Hindemith was more fun to play than to listen to.

I'd imagine that's true if you're listening to Glen Gould.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: kishnevi on July 31, 2017, 09:19:43 AM
That's the only Glenn Gould recording I positively dislike. (Some others are I merely meh, of course.)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 31, 2017, 09:21:18 AM
I remember someone saying that Hindemith was even more fun to play than to listen to.

FTFY.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: North Star on July 31, 2017, 10:26:58 AM
I need to get around to listening to McCabe's Ludus Tonalis. I did start on the Amar's SQ cycle today, though.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on July 31, 2017, 04:07:23 PM
I need to get around to listening to McCabe's Ludus Tonalis. I did start on the Amar's SQ cycle today, though.

Ludus Tonalis is one of my favorite pieces. On its surface it appears to be a pretty unapproachable work, a tough listen. But it took me just a few seconds to get acclimated and *boom* I never looked back.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 01, 2017, 02:21:49 AM
Ludus Tonalis is one of my favorite pieces.

+1

Of course, the quartets make for a rewarding listen, as well
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Parsifal on August 08, 2017, 07:10:12 AM
Interesting that a limitation can spur creativity. I was listening to Hindemith's Konzertmuzik for Brass and String Orchestra (in the Albert recording on cpo) and was struck by the unique sonorities that Hindemith brings out from the somewhat peculiar performing ensemble (4 trumpets, 4 horns, 3 trombones, tuba and string orchestra). But of course, what is it but a more-or-less standard orchestra with the winds silent?

The Albert recording is superb.



I have no memory of having listened to the piece before, although I find I have a few other recordings, notable Tortelier. I also find myself curious about an old recording made by the BSO (which commissioned the work).



Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2017, 08:05:38 AM
It is a while since I’ve heard it, but I remember that Steinberg/BSO recording being very fine.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Parsifal on August 08, 2017, 08:11:31 AM
It is a while since I’ve heard it, but I remember that Steinberg/BSO recording being very fine.

Frustrating thing is I have Hindemith's own recording on EMI but it is buried in a self-storage unit where a major excavation would be necessary to unearth it.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 08, 2017, 08:59:43 AM
I feel ya (even while, it turns out, this is one I can find readily) . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 24, 2017, 09:53:55 AM
So I’ve started reading (at long last) the Guy Rickards Hindemith, Hartmann & Henze Phaidon book.  I feel reasonably certain that I fetched the book in, on Cato’s recommendation . . . and I bought it in October of 2014.  It seems to have gone to earth at the bottom of a sack, which then filled up with other articles. No surprise, I discovered it only when I went through that sack’s contents yesterday.

In the time since buying the book, I have actually (at even longer last) listened to Mörder, Hoffnung der Frauen and Das Nusch-Nuschi.  So I have an even better frame of musical reference for this start to the book.  In turn, the narrative is giving me improved context for the early string quartets and the Clarinet Quintet.

It’s like falling in love with Hindemith’s music all over again . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Parsifal on August 24, 2017, 10:15:07 AM
I feel ya (even while, it turns out, this is one I can find readily) . . . .

I did manage to dig out my Hindemith conducts Hindemith sets (the 2CD EMI set and the 3CD DG set). I'm still making my way slowly through the cpo recordings, but quick comparisons with the composer conducted recordings suggests they are superb and in better sound than I expected.

I've gotten through the "Die Harmonie der Welt" symphony and the Symphony for Concert Band. Both are marvelous works, but the Concert Music for Winds and Strings remains the biggest revelation, so far. Maybe I will finish the current disc containing the Symphony in E-flat and take a break from Hindemith to avoid over-saturation. I'm thinking Barenboim/Brahms.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: kyjo on October 17, 2017, 09:00:36 AM
I've begun making my way through the Hindemith quartet cycle - I've only heard the first three so far and I can already say that this is one of the most underrated SQ cycles out there. The Amar Quartet recordings on Naxos are superb. The early, newly-discovered 1st quartet is notable for its remarkable, haunting funeral march slow movement. The 2nd shows signs of neoclassicism but is still fundamentally Romantic - especially in the lovely second theme of the finale. The 3rd quartet - a masterpiece IMO - inhabits a darker, more chromatic world but is still thoroughly accessible.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 17, 2017, 09:39:33 AM
I've begun making my way through the Hindemith quartet cycle - I've only heard the first three so far and I can already say that this is one of the most underrated SQ cycles out there. The Amar Quartet recordings on Naxos are superb. The early, newly-discovered 1st quartet is notable for its remarkable, haunting funeral march slow movement. The 2nd shows signs of neoclassicism but is still fundamentally Romantic - especially in the lovely second theme of the finale. The 3rd quartet - a masterpiece IMO - inhabits a darker, more chromatic world but is still thoroughly accessible.

Love them, absolutely.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Parsifal on October 17, 2017, 01:30:08 PM
Another thing on the pile of unheard essentials...

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on October 17, 2017, 01:54:02 PM
I've begun making my way through the Hindemith quartet cycle - I've only heard the first three so far and I can already say that this is one of the most underrated SQ cycles out there. The Amar Quartet recordings on Naxos are superb. The early, newly-discovered 1st quartet is notable for its remarkable, haunting funeral march slow movement. The 2nd shows signs of neoclassicism but is still fundamentally Romantic - especially in the lovely second theme of the finale. The 3rd quartet - a masterpiece IMO - inhabits a darker, more chromatic world but is still thoroughly accessible.
I've been promoting these as one of the major 20th century quartet cycles for years.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Monsieur Croche on October 17, 2017, 02:10:17 PM
I remember someone saying that Hindemith was even more fun to play than to listen to.

FTFY.

My hunch is that is a revision of the more standard "_____ is more fun to play than to listen to."

Nonetheless, you got me to his Sancta Susanna, which is downright lovely, (and 'tense' etc.) and the Clarinet Quintet, which is also a highly engaging work!  But I am not too surprised; a goodly amount of earlier Hindemith is fresh, vital, and well worth investigating... i.e. what was written before he wrote his harmony text and codified the hierarchy of 'his' world of harmony.  After that, he was 'writing by the book,' (his book) and imo, a lot of the works he composed thereafter sound like generic parodies of... Hindemith.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: pjme on October 19, 2017, 01:44:10 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/AMk1SSrkPe5FQ0ypJAHv8-zXGaY=/fit-in/600x591/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6550238-1421785605-8459.jpeg.jpg)

Listening to the violinconcerto. I like serious music.
P.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Monsieur Croche on October 19, 2017, 01:49:06 PM
One of my really really favorite works, period, is the Hindemith piece for piano, 2 harps, and brass...what is it called?..."something-musik" Op.39???

Konzertmusik for piano, brass, and two harps, op 49

a Czech recording....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv58mbkuWDA
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Monsieur Croche on October 19, 2017, 02:10:12 PM
I think this particular score is near to only known to those who know of Oscar Schlemmer's Triadisches Ballett, a fun Bauhaus Ballet oddity, and a kind of period treasure.

The score is delightful, neoclassical mode, and has less of that "I can identify this as Hindemith within the first two seconds" sound than one usually expects.

The ballet is more than a little remarkable -- Bauhaus or other, it strikes the more contemporary eye as severely phantasmal / surreal :-)
https://www.youtube.com/v/mHQmnumnNgo
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: amw on October 19, 2017, 02:27:07 PM
The Lustige Sinfonietta mentioned above is probably my favourite orchestral piece by Hindemith.... unless the fourth Kammermusik counts as orchestral (chamber orchestra). I'm surprised the Sinfonietta (& also the early cello concerto Op. 3) are so rarely mentioned by basically anyone; that's the Hindemith period I find most appealing, sort of like if Richard Strauss was actually good. For some reason I lose interest around the same time the pieces stop having opus numbers although I will listen to eg the Symphony in E flat or Der Schwanendreher (sp) once in a while.

So I guess I kind of agree with M. Croche here. The string quartets have a similar problem where I like the first four a lot despite misgivings about length, and can't remember anything about the last three. That said of the "late" works I still have a lot of time for Ludus Tonalis
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: kyjo on October 19, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
sort of like if Richard Strauss was actually good.

 :o Ouch!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: amw on October 19, 2017, 03:02:31 PM
That was a joke btw, I actually don't think Strauss is bad (just not really my thing) and my all time favourite piece by Hindemith, the viola and piano sonata Op. 11 no. 4, is extremely Straussian in its treatment of harmony and the set of variations that could come straight out of Don Quixote. Ish.

But yeah early Hindemith is good
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: kyjo on October 19, 2017, 08:48:37 PM
That was a joke btw, I actually don't think Strauss is bad (just not really my thing) and my all time favourite piece by Hindemith, the viola and piano sonata Op. 11 no. 4, is extremely Straussian in its treatment of harmony and the set of variations that could come straight out of Don Quixote. Ish.

But yeah early Hindemith is good

Ah, I see :) Yeah, Strauss used to not be my thing either, but recently I've come to appreciate his music. I agree with you about Hindemith's Viola Sonata op. 11/4 - a lovely piece. The opening always seems to be haunting my memory.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 20, 2017, 12:57:21 AM
Konzertmusik for piano, brass, and two harps, op 49

a Czech recording....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv58mbkuWDA

I think this particular score is near to only known to those who know of Oscar Schlemmer's Triadisches Ballett, a fun Bauhaus Ballet oddity, and a kind of period treasure.

The score is delightful, neoclassical mode, and has less of that "I can identify this as Hindemith within the first two seconds" sound than one usually expects.

The ballet is more than a little remarkable -- Bauhaus or other, it strikes the more contemporary eye as severely phantasmal / surreal :-)
https://www.youtube.com/v/mHQmnumnNgo

Excellent, both.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 20, 2017, 01:00:15 AM
That was a joke btw, I actually don't think Strauss is bad (just not really my thing) and my all time favourite piece by Hindemith, the viola and piano sonata Op. 11 no. 4, is extremely Straussian in its treatment of harmony and the set of variations that could come straight out of Don Quixote. Ish.

But yeah early Hindemith is good

Ah, I see :) Yeah, Strauss used to not be my thing either, but recently I've come to appreciate his music. I agree with you about Hindemith's Viola Sonata op. 11/4 - a lovely piece. The opening always seems to be haunting my memory.


And there is the story of IIRC one of the Donaueschingen Festivals at which Strauss was the pre-eminent member of the panel, when Strauss said the the younger composer, "Why do you compose atonal music? You have talent."  To which Hindemith responded, "You write your music, Herr Doktor Professor, and I'll write mine."
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Monsieur Croche on October 20, 2017, 04:01:17 AM
....that's the Hindemith period I find most appealing, sort of like if Richard Strauss was actually good.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Christo on October 20, 2017, 02:01:53 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Exactly. Love Hindemith, and never enjoyed Strauss either - except for Eulenspiegel's pranks and a few pieces more, but very little indeed.  ???
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Zeus on July 20, 2018, 07:08:35 AM
Cross-posted from Current Listening:

I seem to have got bitten by the Hindemith bug.

New purchases and first listens:

Hindemith: Symphonia Serena, Die Harmonie der Welt
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Herbert Blomstedt
Decca

Hindemith: Works for Violin
Frank Peter Zimmermann, Frankfurt RSO, Paavo Jarvi
BIS

Walton, Hindemith: Cello Concertos
Christian Poltéra, Sao Paolo Symphony Orchestra, Frank Shipway
BIS

also re-listening to Hindemith discs I already have:

Hindemith: Mathis der Maler, Nobilissima Visione, Symphonic Metamorphosis
Sao Paulo State Symphony Orchestra, Neschling
BIS

Hindemith: Sonatas for...
Various Artists
Harmonia Mundi

I'm quite enjoying this hunting and listening project, and may go for the Naxos string quartets next!

My wallet is mad at me!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 20, 2018, 08:13:08 AM
Well do I know that bug . . . .
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 19, 2018, 07:25:03 PM
Making my path through the Hindemith's chamber music, I stumbled upon the Kammermusik (1922-1927). Starting with the Kleine Kammermusik for wind quintet and later with the Kammermusik No. 1, I have to say this is some of the quirkiest music I've heard lately. Man, this is so well-crafted, the combination for diverse instruments stands out (the Kammermusik No. 1 for flute, clarinet, bassoon, trumpet, piano, harmonium, string quintet and percussion), one can also notice some sarcastic writing that makes these works thoroughly absorbing, not to mention those serious and heartfelt slow movements, which give the due contrast. This music is truly satisfying, carefree and cleverly written.

The Kammermusik series appears to be a source of assured entertainment.

About the recordings, what do you think is the best of them: Abbado on EMI or Chailly on Decca? I listened to the Kleine K. from Decca and the other from EMI.

(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/04/imgL/119148313.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Wa5CHygnL.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on September 19, 2018, 07:26:32 PM
I learned to love this music through the superb Chailly recordings and never found it necessary to look farther.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Mandryka on September 19, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZZhIPctjL._SX355_.jpg)

This is the 1920s Marienleben. It is beautifully recorded. Juliane Banse’s voice has a  characterful timbre, and she uses a rather noticeable vibrato. It is a sensual, heavy, “knowing” and mature sound; there’s no hint of nativity or simplicity or indeed of the flirtatious soubrette. I can live with her voice, and in fact it may just be absolutely spot on given the poems’ content. Martin Helmschen is very good IMO, but it’s Banse’s show.


Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: Irons on September 22, 2018, 01:00:16 AM
Making my path through the Hindemith's chamber music, I stumbled upon the Kammermusik (1922-1927). Starting with the Kleine Kammermusik for wind quintet and later with the Kammermusik No. 1, I have to say this is some of the quirkiest music I've heard lately. Man, this is so well-crafted, the combination for diverse instruments stands out (the Kammermusik No. 1 for flute, clarinet, bassoon, trumpet, piano, harmonium, string quintet and percussion), one can also notice some sarcastic writing that makes these works thoroughly absorbing, not to mention those serious and heartfelt slow movements, which give the due contrast. This music is truly satisfying, carefree and cleverly written.

The Kammermusik series appears to be a source of assured entertainment.



The music of a young composer with his creative juices in full flow. You are right Hindemith's music is well crafted, but many critics turn this positive into a negative by accusing him of dryness which not only unfair but inaccurate. To dispel that theory you have only to listen to the Labéque sisters tearing it up with his Sonata for Two Pianos.

Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: kyjo on September 22, 2018, 07:22:35 AM
You are right Hindemith's music is well crafted, but many critics turn this positive into a negative by accusing him of dryness which not only unfair but inaccurate.

I very much agree with this. Personally, I prefer much of Hindemith’s music to that from Stravinsky’s neoclassical period, which I tend to find rather “dry”. In his best works, Hindemith combines masterful craftsmanship with a haunting lyricism and colorful textures, to great effect.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 22, 2018, 06:11:05 PM
The music of a young composer with his creative juices in full flow. You are right Hindemith's music is well crafted, but many critics turn this positive into a negative by accusing him of dryness which not only unfair but inaccurate. To dispel that theory you have only to listen to the Labéque sisters tearing it up with his Sonata for Two Pianos.

A gifted brain to compose, Hindemith's stamp is a easily recognizable voice, sounding fresh and with a bunch of spicy and ironic touches. I really like his music. To be honest, I did find some dry-and-acid fragments in many of his works, but somehow I feel them rather original, without forgetting the effects and quirky rhythms and harmonies that catch your imagination.

Then the Sonata for two pianos will be a new work to me, so thanks for the suggestion. Ludus Tonalis receives a lot of praises as well.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2020, 07:05:22 AM
TTT! - has been over a year - yesterday, I left the post below in the 'listening thread' w/ no responses - SO, thought that this dormant Hindemith thread needs some attention, especially regarding updates on new recordings - don't believe that I added to my 'modest' collection of his works in a half dozen year or more - e.g. who might be 'better' in the SQs - Danish Quartet vs. Amar Quartet?  Dave :)

Quote
Hindemith, Paul (1895-1963) -  Orchestral Works (6-CDs), Kammermusik (2-CDs), & String Quartets - first 3 sets w/ the performers shown; Hindemith was a prolific German composer, violist, violinist, teacher and conductor who settled in the United States in 1940 - decided to 'tackle' my nearly 20 disc collection of Paul's works (he indeed was prolific - check HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hindemith)).

Today, listening to the String Quartets - own the 3-disc set w/ the Danish Quartet; main competition seems to be the Amar Quartet (reviews attached w/ a comparison of the two groups for those interested), Kammermusik w/ Chailly (probably my favorite Hindemith pieces, BUT there is so much to enjoy!), and several selections from the Albert Orchestral Works, V. 1 (note there is a V. 2 & 3 w/ 9 more discs!).  My remaining recordings are mostly his chamber works for various instruments, another source of pleasure.  Dave :)

P.S. according to the link, Hindemith founded the 'original' Amar Quartet in 1921 (he was the violist); finally, there is a 15-page Hindemith thread that I scanned this morning w/ no posting in over a year.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81NnaB5MIBL._SL1304_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410I6zvFbsL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71gd2PIeeFL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71zs25lEmML._SL1200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2020, 07:17:46 AM
For the morning's listening - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71d1Trbt5dL._SL1050_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81e2XviKQQL._SL1080_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91ZXetvMqtL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51evd4E54jL.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 17, 2020, 09:29:59 AM
Reminds me that it is high time for me to revisit Der Dämon
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2020, 09:45:34 AM
Brass & Woodwind Chamber Music - the 2 first CDs below (bassoon sonata the only duplicated work) - the BIS recording is from 1974-83; the other from 1998 on the obscure Equilibrium label, actually the company recorded 4 CDs of Hindemith (check HERE (https://www.equilibri.com/recordings/search.php), if interested) - the last CD of the Octet/Quintet/Septet which was not in my collection was just ordered and is 'in the mail' - Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51V1926AfrL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-HFsgsSg/0/a10dc700/O/Hindemith_Sonatas.png)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41GNZVESH6L.jpg)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: vers la flamme on March 17, 2020, 02:26:30 PM
Saw that this thread had been updated and put on String Trio No.1, which I have on CD (the same CPO CD that was just pictured by Sonicman) hadn't heard in months. I'm not crazy about the string trios. If the "dry" criticism is ever true, it must be here—or maybe I am not listening closely enough. I haven't decided whether or not I really like Hindemith, I go back and forth with really appreciating his music, and not getting much from it at all. His extreme skill as a craftsman and his deeply unique voice is more than enough to prove his worth to me as a composer, though, and I will keep trying to break through with his music for the rest of my life as a lover of classical music.

Any love for his piano concertos? I see Idil Biret, a pianist I greatly admire, has recorded them. Furthermore I need to get my hands on the complete Kammermusik. I see both Abbado and Chailly have tackled them with members of major orchestras, I will probably get my hands on one or the other.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 17, 2020, 04:19:54 PM

Any love for his piano concertos? I see Idil Biret, a pianist I greatly admire, has recorded them.

Yes, and I have that Naxos album.  I like that they included the Konzertmusik, Op. 49 for brass, two harps and piano, one of my favorite pieces.  I do need to dig into that album more.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: The new erato on March 18, 2020, 12:21:25 AM
TTT! - has been over a year - yesterday, I left the post below in the 'listening thread' w/ no responses - SO, thought that this dormant Hindemith thread needs some attention, especially regarding updates on new recordings - don't believe that I added to my 'modest' collection of his works in a half dozen year or more - e.g. who might be 'better' in the SQs - Danish Quartet vs. Amar Quartet?  Dave :)
I think I'd go with the Amar, owning both for some years.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 18, 2020, 07:58:15 AM
I think I'd go with the Amar, owning both for some years.

Thanks Erato - I had the Amar Quartet in my Amazon cart - just re-read some more reviews (attached for those interested) - seems the preferred set of a number of reviewers and with improved sonics - just 'pulled the trigger' - Dave :)
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 03:05:01 PM
I like the Mathis der Maler Symphony a lot. Who here has heard the opera it is based on? It sounds fascinating, I love the art of Matthias Grünewald, but I'm not sure how effective Hindemith might be as an operatic composer.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 21, 2020, 03:30:47 PM
I like the Mathis der Maler Symphony a lot. Who here has heard the opera it is based on? It sounds fascinating, I love the art of Matthias Grünewald, but I'm not sure how effective Hindemith might be as an operatic composer.

I've got it to hand, and yes, it is high time I listened to it!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 21, 2020, 03:34:40 PM
The early "shock trilogy" operas, I really like:
Mörder, Hoffnung, der Frauen, Das Nusch-Nuschi & Sancta Susanna
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
^Are there any really good, essential recordings of Hindemith's operas out there? Any of them, really, but the one I'm most curious about is Mathis, and as you've alerted me to this early trilogy, Karl, I've now become curious about them, too.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: JBS on March 21, 2020, 03:49:22 PM
There seem to be two full recordings. I have this one


 I have listened to it, but I can't say it overwhelmed me.
There's also a recording on Oehms led by Simone Young, and a CD of highlights from both MdM and Cardillac on DG, featuring DFD.

^Are there any really good, essential recordings of Hindemith's operas out there? Any of them, really, but the one I'm most curious about is Mathis, and as you've alerted me to this early trilogy, Karl, I've now become curious about them, too.


There's also The Long Christmas Dinner, based on a play by Thornton Wilder. There's two recordings, one in German on Wergo, and one in English under Leon Botstein. If I read the Amazon blurb correctly, the English is the opera's original language, and the German a translation.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: JBS on March 21, 2020, 03:55:52 PM

Went digging through this thread and found....

I've spent some time listening to The Long Christmas Dinner for each of the last three or four days, and I spent more time with the libretto last night, and I find it tremendously impressive.  Touching, at times unalloyedly enchanting, it is an opera which I feel ought to be standard repertory.  If, ten years ago (and this is probably the fault of the reader, not of the author), I had read the Wilder story, I might have had no patience with it;  here, the music flows so naturally, has such engaging profiles, carries on so confidently, that the setting obliterated any prejudice I might have entertained against the text.  This sounds like an odd thing to say about a piece which remains next door to unknown, but I think it one of the best operas of the 20th century.  And I am not done;  I expect to spend another week in the piece's sonic company.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 21, 2020, 05:14:04 PM
There seem to be two full recordings. I have this one
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0040UEHW8.01.L.jpg)
 I have listened to it, but I can't say it overwhelmed me.
There's also a recording on Oehms led by Simone Young, and a CD of highlights from both MdM and Cardillac on DG, featuring DFD.


There's also The Long Christmas Dinner, based on a play by Thornton Wilder. There's two recordings, one in German on Wergo, and one in English under Leon Botstein. If I read the Amazon blurb correctly, the English is the opera's original language, and the German a translation.


I really like the Wergo rec. of The Long Christmas Dinner, even though, as you observe, we're missing Thornton Wilder's English
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 25, 2020, 02:27:41 PM
There seem to be two full recordings. I have this one
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0040UEHW8.01.L.jpg)
 I have listened to it, but I can't say it overwhelmed me.
There's also a recording on Oehms led by Simone Young, and a CD of highlights from both MdM and Cardillac on DG, featuring DFD.


There's also The Long Christmas Dinner, based on a play by Thornton Wilder. There's two recordings, one in German on Wergo, and one in English under Leon Botstein. If I read the Amazon blurb correctly, the English is the opera's original language, and the German a translation.


Viz. Mathis, if you've not already done, Jeffrey, have you tried starting with Scene 6?

My ears are having an easy ride out to the end now, then, I'll need (?) to try the first two scenes again.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: JBS on March 25, 2020, 04:46:36 PM
Viz. Mathis, if you've not already done, Jeffrey, have you tried starting with Scene 6?

My ears are having an easy ride out to the end now, then, I'll need (?) to try the first two scenes again.

I don't recall any real differences between the earlier and later scenes. But it has been a bit since I heard it. 

My general practice is rather boring: the standard begin at the beginning and end at the end routine, I confess.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 25, 2020, 04:55:43 PM
I don't recall any real differences between the earlier and later scenes. But it has been a bit since I heard it. 

My general practice is rather boring: the standard begin at the beginning and end at the end routine, I confess.

I did the same, though I had somehow stubbed my aural toe before scene 3.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 25, 2020, 05:22:21 PM
Das Nusch-Nuschi is based on a "play for Burmese marionettes" by the minor Expressionist writer Franz Blei. A nobleman, Zatwai is being all four of the Burmese Emperor's wives. When the crime is discovered, Zatwai's servant manages to throw the blame on an aged general, who is sentenced to be castrated. But the general has previously encountered a terrible mythic beast, the Nusch-Nuschi ("nuts-nuts," the slang sense of nuts for testicles) which bit off the relevant portion of his anatomy; so the executioner has nothing to use his blade upon, and the opera ends in laughter.
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 04, 2020, 03:31:59 PM
 Cross-post

Hindemith
Cardillac, Op. 39 (1926 version)

Gerd Albrecht, cond.


This is so fabulously good, I am ashamed that it took me so long to engage with it!
Title: Re: Hindemith's Harmonie
Post by: eoghan on October 03, 2020, 06:24:15 AM
Just dropping in to recommend the 5 pieces for strings, Op 44. I think he wrote them as easy pieces which could be played by students (I played them as a student!) but it is a lovely set of miniatures, well worth a listen.