GMG Classical Music Forum

The Back Room => The Diner => Topic started by: greg on July 22, 2008, 06:24:43 PM

Title: Personality Types
Post by: greg on July 22, 2008, 06:24:43 PM
http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html

Don't worry. Not another stupid quiz. Which personality type are you? There's 16 "types".
Mine:

Quote
INTP

Logical, original, creative thinkers. Can become very excited about theories and ideas. Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings. Highly value knowledge, competence and logic. Quiet and reserved, hard to get to know well. Individualistic, having no interest in leading or following others.
it could say more, but everything there is perfect 0:) 0:) 0:)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 22, 2008, 06:25:09 PM
I'd actually took the 'real' version.

I'm an INTJ.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on July 22, 2008, 06:37:35 PM
I'd actually took the 'real' version.

I'm an INTJ.
well, i supposed we're "related", just one letter off.  8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 22, 2008, 06:38:36 PM
well, i supposed we're "related", just one letter off.  8)

I maxed out the J porition of the test, apparently.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 22, 2008, 10:09:33 PM
I'm a combination of an INFP and an INTP, an ISFP and an ENFP...
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on July 22, 2008, 10:39:36 PM
I'm unique.  8)  ;D  :D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: rubio on July 22, 2008, 10:56:45 PM
I'm probably quite on the INFP side with some parts of INFJ + a lot of other things in the mix :).
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Renfield on July 22, 2008, 11:51:34 PM
I'll stay an RENF, thank you. 8)


Though Jung's system is always like a familiar acquaintance, every time I encounter it; with or without the arbitrary interpretations tacked on.

(And I realise I'm criticising a (semi-)recognised (semi-)academic (semi-)psychological test, but that's just how great my faith in Jung is. ;)

Jung's system wasn't a checklist, thank the archetypical heavens!)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 23, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
I'll stay an RENF, thank you. 8)

Doh! You even made me go back and look for that abbreviation! ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 23, 2008, 06:07:18 PM
They don't seem to have the passive/aggressive option.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: eyeresist on July 23, 2008, 06:28:09 PM

INTP here.

Jung was a mystic fool, but I'm sure this test measures something consistently.
 
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Iago on July 23, 2008, 07:48:00 PM
http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html

Don't worry. Not another stupid quiz. Which personality type are you? There's 16 "types".
Mine:
it could say more, but everything there is perfect 0:) 0:) 0:)

There's a one word condensation of those attributes. It's NERD.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 23, 2008, 08:09:27 PM
So which one best describes you, Iago?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Hollywood on July 23, 2008, 09:28:19 PM
I guess I pretty much fit into the ISFP (The Artist) group:

They have a strong aesthetic appreciation for art, and are likely to be artists in some form, because they are unusually gifted at creating and composing things which will strongly affect the senses.

ISFPs tend to be quiet and reserved, and difficult to get to know well. They hold back their ideas and opinions except from those who they are closest to. They are likely to be kind, gentle and sensitive in their dealings with others.

ISFPs have a strong affinity for aesthetics and beauty. They're likely to be animal lovers, and to have a true appreciation for the beauties of nature. They're original and independent, and need to have personal space.

The ISFP is likely to not give themself enough credit for the things which they do extremely well. Their strong value systems can lead them to be intensely perfectionist, and cause them to judge themselves with unneccesary harshness.


 8)

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Iago on July 23, 2008, 10:58:58 PM
So which one best describes you, Iago?

For me to know and for you to find out.
Obviously you fall into the same nerdish categories as greg.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Renfield on July 23, 2008, 11:12:42 PM
INTP here.

Jung was a mystic fool, but I'm sure this test measures something consistently.
 

The point is, however, that this is not the "mystic fool's" test. It's the test of someone who semi-arbitrarily adapted "the mystic fool's" system to suit practical needs: namely the categorisation of the population into subgroups, towards judging their suitability for various tasks.

Without even beginning to comment on how out of order that is, it is far from something Jung himself would do, or the reason Jung came up with the concept of psychological types non-exclusive to each other (in actuality) altogether!

The mystic fool, mystic as he was, did not intend his analytical psychology as a more elaborate yardstick. ;)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: ChamberNut on July 24, 2008, 03:18:52 AM
So which one best describes you, Iago?

My guess would be COAI.  Crusty on the outside, airy on the inside.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on July 24, 2008, 03:29:58 AM
My guess would be COAI.  Crusty on the outside, airy on the inside.

Or simply IAGO. Insufferable Antipathetic Grinning Ogre.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on July 24, 2008, 05:44:30 AM
There's a one word condensation of those attributes. It's NERD.
Somewhat. I've been called a "smarty pants" recently by someone but I can't ever remember being called a "nerd".
I have the intellectual curiosity without all the awkwardness of what it really means to be a true nerd......

As for you, you seem to lack any curiosity at all, you're about as useful and interesting as a decayed fart.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 24, 2008, 05:46:57 AM
As for you, you seem to lack any curiosity at all, you're about as useful and interesting as a decayed fart.
I object! Decayed farts can give a hint as to what a person has recently eaten. Hardly fair to bring them down another level, don't you think?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: pjme on July 24, 2008, 05:52:41 AM
BAH! >:D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on July 24, 2008, 05:53:14 AM
I object! Decayed farts can give a hint as to what a person has recently eaten. Hardly fair to bring them down another level, don't you think?
but how do you tell?  ???
is this done in a lab? is this what you do in your lab at school?  ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: mn dave on July 24, 2008, 05:56:51 AM
I'm a STFU.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 24, 2008, 06:37:53 AM
ISFJ

I also took the real test for this many years ago. I see the results haven't changed... :)

8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 24, 2008, 06:55:05 AM
but how do you tell?  ???
is this done in a lab? is this what you do in your lab at school?  ;D
No...but if you notice your eyes burning around certain individuals, it's a good bet they've been eating Thai! ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 24, 2008, 06:57:11 AM
ISFJ

I also took the real test for this many years ago. I see the results haven't changed... :)

8)
Is the real test on the same web page?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 24, 2008, 06:58:50 AM
Is the real test on the same web page?

I didn't see it there. I took it in a management course at work. This is a well-known thing (the 16 Types). I would well imagine that you can find the test online if you Google it a bit.

8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 24, 2008, 11:50:40 AM
Is the real test on the same web page?

I've never seen the full test online. It is fairly lengthy.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe_Campbell on July 24, 2008, 05:14:31 PM
Yea...some 'version' of the test I found asked 4 questions and then determined it from that. Seems like I got short-changed.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 24, 2008, 05:31:07 PM
Yea...some 'version' of the test I found asked 4 questions and then determined it from that. Seems like I got short-changed.

Indeed you did. IIRC (and it's been 20 years), the test was 12-15 pages long. Probably one of the best of its ilk I ever took though. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Hausmusik - Bia 298 Op 29 Quintet in C for Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: eyeresist on July 24, 2008, 06:19:31 PM
I'm a STFU.

lol


There's something acutely ironic about accusing people of being nerds on a classical music forum.
 
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 24, 2008, 10:30:10 PM
lThere's something acutely ironic about accusing people of being nerds on a classical music forum.

I am savouring the irony with you.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Wanderer on July 24, 2008, 10:49:12 PM
ISFJ

ISTJ, according to one (rather brief) test I randomly took among those available on the internet.

Introverted (I) 73.33% Extroverted (E) 26.67%
Sensing (S) 57.58% Intuitive (N) 42.42%
Thinking (T) 58.62% Feeling (F) 41.38%
Judging (J) 54.76% Perceiving (P) 45.24%
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: knight66 on July 25, 2008, 05:40:58 AM
There needs to be some delving into what some of these terms mean. There are academic categorisations here that have slid into common usage and the meanings have become distorted. An example is 'introvert', here is a quote on the definition; I was thinking of explaining it myself, but Googled and this one looks fine to me.

Definition: "Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. In fact, being shy has little to do with being an introvert! Shyness has an element of apprehension, nervousness and anxiety, and while an introvert may also be shy, introversion itself is not shyness. Basically, an introvert is a person who is energized by being alone and whose energy is drained by being around other people.

Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind. They enjoy thinking, exploring their thoughts and feelings. They often avoid social situations because being around people drains their energy. This is true even if they have good social skills. After being with people for any length of time, such as at a party, they need time alone to "recharge."

"When introverts want to be alone, it is not, by itself, a sign of depression. It means that they either need to regain their energy from being around people or that they simply want the time to be with their own thoughts. Being with people, even people they like and are comfortable with, can prevent them from their desire to be quietly introspective.

Being introspective, though, does not mean that an introvert never has conversations. However, those conversations are generally about ideas and concepts, not about what they consider the trivial matters of social small talk.

Introverts make up about 60% of the gifted population but only about 25-40% of the general population."

From this source.

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/introvert.htm

'Extrovert' is also used in common parlance in an incorrect or at least altered way from that envisaged when the term was coined.

Mike


Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Renfield on July 25, 2008, 06:22:55 AM
I will suppress blood-curdling screams and assorted vocalisations of indignation, and suggest that anyone seriously interested in the terms in this test and their interpretation, in fact their original purpose, prior to appropriation towards the war effort for kitchen-table psychometry, refer themselves to Jung's work. Unless they're interested in the "Judging/Perceiving" business, which was just tacked on.

It is veritably a travesty how a theory of personality has become a quantitative theory of classification, I'll say it again.  >:(


(And I'll now stop harassing this thread; so to speak, as I don't think threads can be harassed. :P)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: knight66 on July 25, 2008, 08:13:50 AM
Apart from specifying Jung, I thought that was pretty much my point; though made sitting down. Despite the hijacking of these terms, I have seen how such as Myers Briggs can help people understand and to allow colleagues to function in varied teams. The danger I always preached about was pigeonholing people with their definition to the extent the categorisation straitjacketed them. Managers and colleagues needed to see the descriptors as tendencies, not the 10 commandments. People could learn to work successfully out of their comfort zone.

Apollo....here is a system I had not known about: 'The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory'. Want to fess up?

Mike
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 25, 2008, 08:16:21 AM
Apart from specifying Jung, I thought that was pretty much my point; though made sitting down. Despite the hijacking of these terms, I have seen how such as Myers Briggs can help people understand and to allow colleagues to function in varied teams. The danger I always preached about was pigeonholing people with their definition to the extent the categorisation straitjacketed them. Managers and colleagues needed to see the descriptors as tendencies, not the 10 commandments. People could learn to work successfully out of their comfort zone.

Apollo....here is a system I had not known about: 'The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory'. Want to fess up?

Mike

I've taken the MMPI. Now that's a long test, at the very least, it will take 2 hours to complete, and that is if you are flying through it.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: knight66 on July 25, 2008, 08:21:03 AM
Yes, I used to argue with the facilitators I encountered who did not themselves understand what they were delivering beyond their speaker's notes. That was on the basis of a computerised test that took about an hour to complete. All they really wanted was headlines with which to label people. I regarded it as a lazy way of trying to help people understand themselves. But when delivered well, it had a positive and lasting impact.

Mike
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: ChamberNut on July 25, 2008, 08:31:44 AM
ISTJ, according to one (rather brief) test I randomly took among those available on the internet.

Introverted (I) 73.33% Extroverted (E) 26.67%
Sensing (S) 57.58% Intuitive (N) 42.42%
Thinking (T) 58.62% Feeling (F) 41.38%
Judging (J) 54.76% Perceiving (P) 45.24%


Based on the test results of the above linked test, I'm an ISFJ (The Nurturer)

Introverted (I) 100%, Extroverted (E) 0%   :o
Sensing (S) 53%, Intuitive (N) 47%
Thinking (T) 17%, Feeling (F) 83%
Judging (J) 59%, Perceiving (P) 41%

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on July 25, 2008, 08:37:46 AM
No...but if you notice your eyes burning around certain individuals, it's a good bet they've been eating Thai! ;D
:-X




There needs to be some delving into what some of these terms mean. There are academic categorisations here that have slid into common usage and the meanings have become distorted. An example is 'introvert', here is a quote on the definition; I was thinking of explaining it myself, but Googled and this one looks fine to me.

Definition: "Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. In fact, being shy has little to do with being an introvert! Shyness has an element of apprehension, nervousness and anxiety, and while an introvert may also be shy, introversion itself is not shyness. Basically, an introvert is a person who is energized by being alone and whose energy is drained by being around other people.

Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind. They enjoy thinking, exploring their thoughts and feelings. They often avoid social situations because being around people drains their energy. This is true even if they have good social skills. After being with people for any length of time, such as at a party, they need time alone to "recharge."

"When introverts want to be alone, it is not, by itself, a sign of depression. It means that they either need to regain their energy from being around people or that they simply want the time to be with their own thoughts. Being with people, even people they like and are comfortable with, can prevent them from their desire to be quietly introspective.

Being introspective, though, does not mean that an introvert never has conversations. However, those conversations are generally about ideas and concepts, not about what they consider the trivial matters of social small talk.

Introverts make up about 60% of the gifted population but only about 25-40% of the general population."

From this source.

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/introvert.htm

'Extrovert' is also used in common parlance in an incorrect or at least altered way from that envisaged when the term was coined.

Mike



That is PERFECT!  8)
If only everybody could read this, then they'd understand me very very well (btw, i was in gifted class in school before so that percentage makes sense)....
Normally, I'm extremely quiet and avoid talking to people, since everyday saying hi and having to answer the same stupid question "how are you?" is so monotonous it makes me sick. Who cares how i am, is that really important information? Is it interesting? No. And I don't care how people are, unless they're dying or something. I can think of little comments and stuff to say, but usually it's stupid so I don't even feel like saying it.

Now, a good conversation is like something last night- me and my possible future band manager were talking about Family Guy and South Park, and also music, since he said he listened to the Shostakovich i had on my myspace page. Especially when I got to mention how funny i thought the Kool-Aid man jumping through the courtroom saying "oh, yeah....."  was.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 25, 2008, 08:43:09 AM
People who have to mention that they are special, generally aren't.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Iago on July 25, 2008, 08:53:00 AM
People who have to mention that they are special, generally aren't.

Bravo!!!
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Lethevich on July 25, 2008, 08:58:44 AM
People who have to mention that they are special, generally aren't.

Is this some reverse-psychology in action? ¬_____¬
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 25, 2008, 09:00:50 AM
Is this some reverse-psychology in action? ¬_____¬

More flat aside.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 25, 2008, 09:05:11 AM
People who have to mention that they are special, generally aren't.

Wagner proves you wrong.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on July 25, 2008, 09:17:03 AM
Wagner proves you wrong.
He did say "generally"...... which is more or less so, since there's also Saul out there.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 25, 2008, 09:19:57 AM
Wagner proves you wrong.

Ummm, no.  ::)

8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: knight66 on July 25, 2008, 09:22:32 AM
Gurn, With Global Warming and the increased pressure on natural resources an'all, you sure take up a lotta space with two words.

Mike
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 25, 2008, 09:25:17 AM
Gurn, With Global Warming and the increased pressure on natural resources an'all, you sure take up a lotta space with two words.

Mike

I assume you mean in import... :)  Merci, mon ami.

8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Josquin des Prez on July 25, 2008, 09:26:13 AM
Ummm, no.  ::)

8)

Sorry, yes.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 25, 2008, 09:27:13 AM
Ummm, no.  ::)

8)

I suppose he could be considered a good composer.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 25, 2008, 09:33:11 AM
I suppose he could be considered a good composer.

Oh, backing off now, eh?   :P

8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Philoctetes on July 25, 2008, 09:34:58 AM
Oh, backing off now, eh?   :P

8)

Just saying that semantically; I could potentially get stretched that far.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: eyeresist on July 25, 2008, 06:14:12 PM

I'm special, but only in the euphemistic sense.

 
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Renfield on July 26, 2008, 03:13:28 AM
All they really wanted was headlines with which to label people.

Exactly. And that, in my humble opinion, is what rests in the fetid heart of each and every one of those personality test crowd/state-pleasers..

"Leave the psychometry to psychology: tests only in research context", says deranged student. Here's a headline. 8)


(I'm still harassing, aren't I? Yes, I think I am. Blast.)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on October 21, 2008, 11:22:23 AM
Which personality type are you?

ISFJ.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFJ.html
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Joe Barron on October 21, 2008, 01:15:34 PM
I took this personality test once, and failed.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on October 22, 2008, 11:15:16 AM
ISFJ.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFJ.html
You'd make a great father.  8)



Just got back from school, where at the end of the day we spent an hour or so in a classroom with a few other classes and a speaker talking about these personality types.


We took the tests before going into the classroom and here's mine:
Introverted 96%
Intuitive 86%
Thinking 80%
Judging 77%


obviously way out of balance!

anyways....... i was about to bring up a million points and ask a question, but now I don't feel like it. Says a lot......
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on October 22, 2008, 11:33:23 AM
Just have to add one thing. Arnold Schoenberg had to have been an INTJ. If not, then close. Maybe ENTJ. Developing a whole new system of music, and everything.....

other INTJs include Arnold Schwazenegger, CS Lewis and JFK.

random information i'd like to get out of my system.  ::)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on October 23, 2008, 11:32:05 AM
I got a sheet of paper explaining the different types and it seems to me that taking a test to determine your type is a waste of time. Just reading the explanations is more accurate. On the first page of the thread, the last letter i got was P, and the test I just took gave me a J.  ::)
So, after reading the descriptions, the obvious category is simply a strong IN__, the last two being whatever mood I'm in- the most variable.

Also, I realized an important point here...... Intuitive types can't work very systematically- and this relates to composing as well. A lot of composers might be able to work with composing a little each day, steadily (i read in an interview that Penderecki does just that), but that's the Sensing type, and Intuitive types work from random bursts of inspiration, with long, dry periods in between.  :P
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 07, 2020, 12:57:30 PM
I took personality test today (https://www.16personalities.com)

Introverted --- 83 %
Intuitive --- 64 %
Thinking --- 56 %
Judging --- 53 %
Turbulent --- 51 %

I N T J - T
Architect Personality

Strengths: Rational, Informed, Independent, Determined, Curious, Versatile.
Weaknesses: Arrogant, Dismissive of Emotions, Overly Critical, Combative, Romantically Clueless

Looking at the weaknesses "Arrogant" and "Combative" explain well my behavior in the US politics thread.  :-\
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 07, 2020, 05:39:33 PM
I took personality test today (https://www.16personalities.com)

Introverted --- 83 %
Intuitive --- 64 %
Thinking --- 56 %
Judging --- 53 %
Turbulent --- 51 %

I N T J - T
Architect Personality

Strengths: Rational, Informed, Independent, Determined, Curious, Versatile.
Weaknesses: Arrogant, Dismissive of Emotions, Overly Critical, Combative, Romantically Clueless

Looking at the weaknesses "Arrogant" and "Combative" explain well my behavior in the US politics thread.  :-\
Dude...
not sure why you posted on this 12-year old thread rather than the one on the front page of the Diner.

Actually didn't remember at all that I made this thread back in '08.

Kinda would have guessed INTJ or INTP for you, though your percentages are kinda close.

IMO this test is more of a good thing for determining if you have a spark to continue further or not in the study of typology, it's not really a great test, though. Unless they improved the quality of some of the questions since the last time I took it.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 07, 2020, 06:33:02 PM
Dude...
not sure why you posted on this 12-year old thread rather than the one on the front page of the Diner.

I searched the forum for "personality types" and this thread came up first.

Kinda would have guessed INTJ or INTP for you, though your percentages are kinda close.

That's seriously well guessed. I have never understood this stuff, but I am trying to get into this to understand my strengths and weaknesses better.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 07, 2020, 07:10:14 PM
I searched the forum for "personality types" and this thread came up first.
Huh, search feature goes waaaay back.


That's seriously well guessed. I have never understood this stuff, but I am trying to get into this to understand my strengths and weaknesses better.
I think I shared this before with you a while back, but the next step is learning about the Jungian cognitive functions. It gets more complex there and there are some wrong assumptions the internet makes (for example, looping theory). It's a mess, but if you have fun learning then great.   ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 08, 2020, 05:49:06 AM
Huh, search feature goes waaaay back.

I think I shared this before with you a while back, but the next step is learning about the Jungian cognitive functions. It gets more complex there and there are some wrong assumptions the internet makes (for example, looping theory). It's a mess, but if you have fun learning then great.   ;D

Seach function doesn't care about the date. Why would it? What's wrong with an old thread?

This is not an area I am that deeply interested of in general. I used to think younger these personality types are complete mumbo jumbo and totally useless pedantry, but after all the (unexpected) struggles and difficulties in life I'm more curious to understand better my strengths and weaknesses. What I find interesting is how my weaknesses seems to have had a much bigger impact on my life than the strengths. Anyway, if I run out of subjects to learn about (won't happen) I have Jungian cognitive functions.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 08, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Seach function doesn't care about the date. Why would it? What's wrong with an old thread?
Nothing, just that I was trying to make the MBTI thread the only one for typology, since there were a few of mine and should have been consolidated into one thread.

It's okay, though, I am trying to reduce my posting here anyways so no big deal.



This is not an area I am that deeply interested of in general. I used to think younger these personality types are complete mumbo jumbo and totally useless pedantry, but after all the (unexpected) struggles and difficulties in life I'm more curious to understand better my strengths and weaknesses. What I find interesting is how my weaknesses seems to have had a much bigger impact on my life than the strengths. Anyway, if I run out of subjects to learn about (won't happen) I have Jungian cognitive functions.
Yeah, you could also read up about enneagram 5w6 or 6w5 since I'm very confident you'd get that result. (or at least would be surprised if you got something different).
I'm finding enneagram to fill the gaps where MBTI and Jungian cognitive functions don't cover.
For example, for my type 5w4, you can be a scientist and an artist at the same time! (or a nerd and a goth lol :P )
In MBTI it may or may be not give you the archetypes that suit you.

For the more advanced stuff, in the Objective Personality System group that I'm in, actually recently I saw some people discussing about the idea of "masculine intuition" (M-Ni or M-Ne) being described of Asperger's- the reason being that in the system that is one of the two parts for the visual modality, and it is thought that the one common thing about everyone with Asperger's is being visual dominant (rather than audio, kinesthetic or "tester").

Anyways, question for you: do loud noises really bother you? Not gonna lie, if I can make it through my life without violently murdering people outside my apartment with a rusty knife I'll be blessed.  0:)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 09, 2020, 04:38:16 AM
Yeah, you could also read up about enneagram 5w6 or 6w5 since I'm very confident you'd get that result. (or at least would be surprised if you got something different).

Enneagram? Never heard. I even think all of this personality type thing is much more popular in the US than in Finland. We don't really use them here as far as I know. Finnish culture might be too introvert for people to discuss openly about their personality type.  :P


I'm finding enneagram to fill the gaps where MBTI and Jungian cognitive functions don't cover.
For example, for my type 5w4, you can be a scientist and an artist at the same time! (or a nerd and a goth lol :P )
In MBTI it may or may be not give you the archetypes that suit you.

Well, people tend to be many things. That's why I used to think this all is mumbo Jumbo. As if there was ONLY 16 personality types! Every person is a unique personality! The introvert/extrovert axis was the first one I understood long ago, but even that is more complex. I am introvert in Jungian sense, but there are social situations where I am quite extrovert. I have also changed. The struggles in life have made me more eager to express my opinions and I have thicker skin so that a little humiliating situations don't bother me that much. The one benefit of low self-esteem is you don't have to protect your self-esteem. You have nothing to lose in battles of dignity. 25 years ago if I accidentally dropped a coin in a grocery store I would feel humiliated for hours afterwards because I had the illusion of high self-esteem, but nowadays I feel nothing! I have stopped caring what other people think about me. I feel so different person today than 25 years ago. Life changes people.

What's interesting is the amount of people in various personality types vary geographically. My INTJ type is especially common in Poland and East Europe/Russia in general (but not in the north so in Finland it's not common). In the "west" INTJ is less common for some reason.

For the more advanced stuff, in the Objective Personality System group that I'm in, actually recently I saw some people discussing about the idea of "masculine intuition" (M-Ni or M-Ne) being described of Asperger's- the reason being that in the system that is one of the two parts for the visual modality, and it is thought that the one common thing about everyone with Asperger's is being visual dominant (rather than audio, kinesthetic or "tester").

I consider myself mild Asperger because about half of things typical to Aspergers apply well to me (Paying attention to detail other people don't care about, being helpless in social situations of large groups of people etc.). I am definitely visual dominant, but audio is also important for me (I am audiovisual dominant).

Anyways, question for you: do loud noises really bother you? Not gonna lie, if I can make it through my life without violently murdering people outside my apartment with a rusty knife I'll be blessed.  0:)

ALL noises bother me, quiet and loud. I have developped analytic hearing meaning my mind doesn't block even quiet noises around me so I hear everything that is above the threshold of hearing and is not masked by other sounds. Fortunately my neighbours are relatively quiet people.

You must have party animals living next door if you have such violent fantasies. Sounds like you need help much more than I.  ???
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 09, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
Enneagram? Never heard. I even think all of this personality type thing is much more popular in the US than in Finland. We don't really use them here as far as I know. Finnish culture might be too introvert for people to discuss openly about their personality type.  :P
I think it's more of an internet thing to get into this stuff, I see it in unexpected places online sometimes now, but never is it discussed IRL.


Well, people tend to be many things. That's why I used to think this all is mumbo Jumbo. As if there was ONLY 16 personality types! Every person is a unique personality! The introvert/extrovert axis was the first one I understood long ago, but even that is more complex. I am introvert in Jungian sense, but there are social situations where I am quite extrovert. I have also changed. The struggles in life have made me more eager to express my opinions and I have thicker skin so that a little humiliating situations don't bother me that much. The one benefit of low self-esteem is you don't have to protect your self-esteem. You have nothing to lose in battles of dignity. 25 years ago if I accidentally dropped a coin in a grocery store I would feel humiliated for hours afterwards because I had the illusion of high self-esteem, but nowadays I feel nothing! I have stopped caring what other people think about me. I feel so different person today than 25 years ago. Life changes people.
Right, you could probably eventually find enough factors combined to get billions of types if you wanted to get specific enough.
And there is the factor of people being able to change over time, though it's usually conceived more as a balance rather than actually switching to be the opposite for everything, based on the Jungian individuation concept. Some aspects are flexible, others are really difficult to be flexible.


What's interesting is the amount of people in various personality types vary geographically. My INTJ type is especially common in Poland and East Europe/Russia in general (but not in the north so in Finland it's not common). In the "west" INTJ is less common for some reason.
Anything that is INxx will be super common online, but least common IRL it seems.
Last time I saw the geographical stats, it seemed Finland did hold up its stereotype of being introvert, though Japan took the #1 spot of course.
And Arab countries seemed to be the most extroverted.
Makes me wonder if colder countries have a tendency to make people more introverted or what. I'm from a warm part of the US, and at least half of my socializing when growing up was outside playing sports. But after living in a cold place for a few years, I can see how staying inside all the time would make you want to be less social. Idk, just a random thought.


I consider myself mild Asperger because about half of things typical to Aspergers apply well to me (Paying attention to detail other people don't care about, being helpless in social situations of large groups of people etc.). I am definitely visual dominant, but audio is also important for me (I am audiovisual dominant).
Cool.
Well, the OPS system is trying to match up their typing system to many things, they have even found clustering of LGBT and similar visual appearances to certain types, but this is all a work in progress. There was discussion about Asperger's but probably nothing will come of it soon. I'm very curious about this stuff, though. There are a few things aspects I can relate to for that (like being annoyed at noises which break my train of thought, or obsessive hobbies when I was younger), but most of it is different, so the similarities/differences are interesting.


You must have party animals living next door if you have such violent fantasies. Sounds like you need help much more than I.  ???
Thankfully not party animals, though just people that like to talk loud right outside my door, kids screaming at full volume while playing, people blasting their music in their car, an overly loud TV behind my wall, etc.

Once I made the mistake of living on the first floor of an apartment- LOL. Now I always make sure to live on the top floor, nothing less. Used to have to wear stuff to block out the noise, the sound of zoo animals or bowling balls crashing against my ceiling meant my default state of being was murderous rage. So yeah, screw that.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 09, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
Anyway, if I run out of subjects to learn about (won't happen) I have Jungian cognitive functions.
Well here is the briefest summary possible:

(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/131028114_10223872616378875_3005885527311393944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=P0-DowbeFaYAX80C9pv&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=17608b1ae1694af59cc11029682eb30a&oe=5FF5C75E)

My "official" typing is Ni and Fi. Everyone "has" (aka is most comfortable with) doing two:
decider function (one from either the top or bottom row)
observer function (one from the middle two rows)

BAM! Now you can check that off the list of stuff you've learned.  :P :D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 03:49:30 AM
BAM! Now you can check that off the list of stuff you've learned.  :P :D

Thanks, but my mind is not fine-tuned to this kind of stuff. Sometimes it takes me decades to learn something just because all the ways the thing is represented miss a crucial piece of information for me, typically related to logical connections. I learn math pretty fast, because it's mostly about logical connections and no one in the right mind would teach math without logical connections (that's what math is about!), but other subject such as psychology tend to be about terminology and concepts rather than logical connections and are often taught listing the terms and concepts while leaving out logical connections. For example your "briefest summary possible" picture:

I see colorful balls and text between them, but what does it mean? What logical connections between things does it show? What does the colors mean? What does green mean? Are green balls connected to each other? I understand NOTHING! I don't even fully get the INTJ stuff. Sorry. Aspergers are good at processing information they have absorbed, but bad at absorbing information. I can read, but most of it does not stick to my brain and I have just forgotten it 5 minutes later. To make it stick to my brain the information has to be fascinating (e.g. art) or logical (e.g. math). Most information in neither.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 04:01:38 AM
Anything that is INxx will be super common online, but least common IRL it seems.

Are you saying INxx people are more active online than others? That's the logical implication of this claim.

Being online is part of "IRL" in my opinion just as watching opera on TV home instead in an opera hall is "IRL". What I write here online affects you, another person, when you read my post. That makes this "IRL".
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 04:22:20 AM
Last time I saw the geographical stats, it seemed Finland did hold up its stereotype of being introvert, though Japan took the #1 spot of course.
And Arab countries seemed to be the most extroverted.
Makes me wonder if colder countries have a tendency to make people more introverted or what. I'm from a warm part of the US, and at least half of my socializing when growing up was outside playing sports. But after living in a cold place for a few years, I can see how staying inside all the time would make you want to be less social. Idk, just a random thought.

People coming to Finland from extroverted countries are often shocked by how cold Finns appear at first, but when they get to know some Finns and understand better Finnish culture they stop calling Finns cold.  ;D Give a Finn alchohol and you see an amazing transformation of an introverted person to an extroverted person. Or go to sauna with Finns!  >:D Maybe all cultures are equally introverted/extroverted, but there's differences in which situtations people are introverted/extroverted. Finns are introverted in everyday life in situations where they are most often seen so they appear introverted while Arabs are extroverted in everyday life and maybe introverted elsewhere? Your theory of being inside could fit into this. Arab version of being inside it avoiding nudity. Finnish (sauna) culture is pretty relaxed when it comes to nudity. In that sense Finns are extroverted.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 04:35:52 AM
Cool.
Well, the OPS system is trying to match up their typing system to many things, they have even found clustering of LGBT and similar visual appearances to certain types, but this is all a work in progress. There was discussion about Asperger's but probably nothing will come of it soon. I'm very curious about this stuff, though. There are a few things aspects I can relate to for that (like being annoyed at noises which break my train of thought, or obsessive hobbies when I was younger), but most of it is different, so the similarities/differences are interesting.

My brain hurts when I try to understand what you wrote. OPS = Oil purification systems? Operation Productivity Systems? Open Pluggable Specification? Clusters of LGBT? Huh? Nothing is coming soon? What should be coming? Jesus? Sorry if I am too dumb for your posts.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 04:50:29 AM
Thankfully not party animals, though just people that like to talk loud right outside my door, kids screaming at full volume while playing, people blasting their music in their car, an overly loud TV behind my wall, etc.

Once I made the mistake of living on the first floor of an apartment- LOL. Now I always make sure to live on the top floor, nothing less. Used to have to wear stuff to block out the noise, the sound of zoo animals or bowling balls crashing against my ceiling meant my default state of being was murderous rage. So yeah, screw that.

Well, I don't have people talking loud outside my door. Must be the introverted Finnish culture. A couple of years ago my neighbour had her friend living with her with two very large (friendly) dogs. Everytime the dogs were taken out their heavy tails hit against my door for 3 seconds. That's the worst I have experienced. The good thing about Finnish homes is we have at least double and often triple windows to keep the heat inside and cold outside. So the sound insulation is also better against outdoor noises.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 10, 2020, 08:17:59 AM
My brain hurts when I try to understand what you wrote. OPS = Oil purification systems? Operation Productivity Systems? Open Pluggable Specification? Clusters of LGBT? Huh? Nothing is coming soon? What should be coming? Jesus? Sorry if I am too dumb for your posts.
No problem, I guess didn't I provide enough information, was trying to be too brief-
OPS = Objective Personality System. It is basically Myers Briggs on steroids, instead of 16 types there are 512.

Here are examples of two types:
One type (over 50% LGBT- they say LGBT, but I think it's just the G (gay) for that one)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b45d0e_dbce79ac56da4185a862ca7efb6f18ca~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_690,h_211,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b45d0e_dbce79ac56da4185a862ca7efb6f18ca~mv2.webp)
Another type (none are LGBT)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b45d0e_bbae2ed0eb9c40ceb819a42775342c41~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_692,h_211,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b45d0e_bbae2ed0eb9c40ceb819a42775342c41~mv2.webp)

The clustering of people who look similar or are LGBT or whatever into the same type is the interesting part. So what I'm saying is that they are studying all types of aspects such as that, even stuff like Asperger's, and trying to note down if there is a specific pattern going on. But it's still an idea in progress, not sure how much it will develop.



People coming to Finland from extroverted countries are often shocked by how cold Finns appear at first, but when they get to know some Finns and understand better Finnish culture they stop calling Finns cold.  ;D Give a Finn alchohol and you see an amazing transformation of an introverted person to an extroverted person. Or go to sauna with Finns!  >:D Maybe all cultures are equally introverted/extroverted, but there's differences in which situtations people are introverted/extroverted. Finns are introverted in everyday life in situations where they are most often seen so they appear introverted while Arabs are extroverted in everyday life and maybe introverted elsewhere? Your theory of being inside could fit into this. Arab version of being inside it avoiding nudity. Finnish (sauna) culture is pretty relaxed when it comes to nudity. In that sense Finns are extroverted.
Huh, yeah, that is an interesting perspective.



Are you saying INxx people are more active online than others? That's the logical implication of this claim.
Sure, just breaking it down-
I (introversion) = more likely to want to be alone so will be online more
N (intuition) = more likely to want to explore idea/concepts. And the internet is great for exploring concepts, that is the depth of what it has to offer (once you get past social media, etc.)


Being online is part of "IRL" in my opinion just as watching opera on TV home instead in an opera hall is "IRL". What I write here online affects you, another person, when you read my post. That makes this "IRL".
Lol, true, true.


I see colorful balls and text between them, but what does it mean? What logical connections between things does it show? What does the colors mean? What does green mean? Are green balls connected to each other? I understand NOTHING!
Hm, it might not really be enough information for understanding, just thought it'd give you an vague idea of what the functions are doing.



Thanks, but my mind is not fine-tuned to this kind of stuff. Sometimes it takes me decades to learn something just because all the ways the thing is represented miss a crucial piece of information for me, typically related to logical connections. I learn math pretty fast, because it's mostly about logical connections and no one in the right mind would teach math without logical connections (that's what math is about!),
...
Aspergers are good at processing information they have absorbed, but bad at absorbing information. I can read, but most of it does not stick to my brain and I have just forgotten it 5 minutes later. To make it stick to my brain the information has to be fascinating (e.g. art) or logical (e.g. math). Most information in neither.
Ok, so this caught my attention because to me it sounds like you are describing lexicality in the neurotyping system.

But I won't explain what that means, rather show you a picture:
(https://preview.redd.it/idvef46omk151.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=360ab0d7eef7236a80d3c2d4f333cc2391fe6ee5)

Is there anyone whose thinking process that you can relate to most? Would you say Sheldon Cooper maybe?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: steve ridgway on December 10, 2020, 08:56:59 AM
No problem, I guess didn't I provide enough information, was trying to be too brief-
OPS = Objective Personality System. It is basically Myers Briggs on steroids, instead of 16 types there are 512.

Here are examples of two types:
One type (over 50% LGBT- they say LGBT, but I think it's just the G (gay) for that one)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b45d0e_dbce79ac56da4185a862ca7efb6f18ca~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_690,h_211,al_c, ;)q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b45d0e_dbce79ac56da4185a862ca7efb6f18ca~mv2.webp)
Another type (none are LGBT)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b45d0e_bbae2ed0eb9c40ceb819a42775342c41~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_692,h_211,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b45d0e_bbae2ed0eb9c40ceb819a42775342c41~mv2.webp)

The clustering of people who look similar or are LGBT or whatever into the same type is the interesting part.

Bears, look up Gay Bears. ;)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 10:58:47 AM
No problem, I guess didn't I provide enough information, was trying to be too brief-
OPS = Objective Personality System. It is basically Myers Briggs on steroids, instead of 16 types there are 512.

Here are examples of two types:
One type (over 50% LGBT- they say LGBT, but I think it's just the G (gay) for that one)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b45d0e_dbce79ac56da4185a862ca7efb6f18ca~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_690,h_211,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b45d0e_dbce79ac56da4185a862ca7efb6f18ca~mv2.webp)
Another type (none are LGBT)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b45d0e_bbae2ed0eb9c40ceb819a42775342c41~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_692,h_211,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b45d0e_bbae2ed0eb9c40ceb819a42775342c41~mv2.webp)

The clustering of people who look similar or are LGBT or whatever into the same type is the interesting part. So what I'm saying is that they are studying all types of aspects such as that, even stuff like Asperger's, and trying to note down if there is a specific pattern going on. But it's still an idea in progress, not sure how much it will develop.

The face left up looks familiar, but I can't remember who he is. Is this a demonstration having beard indicates NOT being LGBT and vice versa? This is really a topic I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!! I'm feeling like a monkey listening to a lecture about black holes.  ;D

Of course I can google Objective Personality System and study this topic for an hours, but I have other things to do...

PS. is down right guy Sheamus? The Wrestler?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
Sure, just breaking it down-
I (introversion) = more likely to want to be alone so will be online more
N (intuition) = more likely to want to explore idea/concepts. And the internet is great for exploring concepts, that is the depth of what it has to offer (once you get past social media, etc.)

I knew I = Introversion and N = iNtuition, but I'm yet to completely understand the difference between iNtuition and Sensing. For me as an INxx guy it's difficult to understand why someone wouldn't be interested of new ideas/concepts. Isn't that just conservatism?   $:)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 10, 2020, 11:44:59 AM
But I won't explain what that means, rather show you a picture:
(https://preview.redd.it/idvef46omk151.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=360ab0d7eef7236a80d3c2d4f333cc2391fe6ee5)

Is there anyone whose thinking process that you can relate to most? Would you say Sheldon Cooper maybe?

I don't have a clue. I agree politically with Bernie Sanders. I had to Google who Sheldon Cooper is.

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 10, 2020, 10:17:39 PM
I knew I = Introversion and N = iNtuition, but I'm yet to completely understand the difference between iNtuition and Sensing. For me as an INxx guy it's difficult to understand why someone wouldn't be interested of new ideas/concepts. Isn't that just conservatism?   $:)
Right, that is a conservative quality which is not a positive one IMO, though at least they have the positive quality of higher conscientiousness (speaking of how Big Five relates to politics).

Though with increasing push for censorship from political correctness on the left, it seems things are flipping a bit... part of being interested in new ideas/concepts is to not filter the darker, less politically correct ideas. Like not censoring comedians, etc.


The face left up looks familiar, but I can't remember who he is. Is this a demonstration having beard indicates NOT being LGBT and vice versa?
The idea is that it is unlikely that people who look alike should share an extremely similar personality (like out of 512 types), because it is unlikely.
Yet, instead, it is not uncommon that a people who look alike are being typed exactly the same.
So the thing they have been trying to find out, by typing enough people, is if (or how much) having the same type of genetics that produces their physical appearance, ends up shaping their actual personality. It could be coincidence, but also maybe not, maybe there is something deeper to it.
It's just one idea they want to eventually bring forward to scientists to investigate further.


PS. is down right guy Sheamus? The Wrestler?
Yes.


I don't have a clue. I agree politically with Bernie Sanders. I had to Google who Sheldon Cooper is.
Ooohh... huh, I guess never mind then.


Bears, look up Gay Bears. ;)
No thanks.  :-X
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: steve ridgway on December 11, 2020, 02:28:59 AM
So the thing they have been trying to find out, by typing enough people, is if (or how much) having the same type of genetics that produces their physical appearance, ends up shaping their actual personality.

The personality could be shaped by being consistently treated based on their physical appearance. Like encouraging an attractive child to be more confident and extroverted.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 11, 2020, 03:09:43 AM
Right, that is a conservative quality which is not a positive one IMO, though at least they have the positive quality of higher conscientiousness (speaking of how Big Five relates to politics).

Though with increasing push for censorship from political correctness on the left, it seems things are flipping a bit... part of being interested in new ideas/concepts is to not filter the darker, less politically correct ideas. Like not censoring comedians, etc.

Conservatism has it's place. For example I am for conserving this planet by taking action to fight climate change.

As I have said, the "left" is not all the same. Some people on the left are into cultural war and indeed push for censorship not understanding the left is one of the the first groups censorship will attack, because the left challenges those in power. People like Kyle Kulinski on the other hand are not into cultural war, but economics. Instead of cencorship they push for medicare for all, tuition free education etc. stuff that would help most people. Kyle Kulinski, a free speech absolutist, has been VERY critical to those who call for censorship. My point is the left is not all the same just as not every Trumpist is the same.

The idea is that it is unlikely that people who look alike should share an extremely similar personality (like out of 512 types), because it is unlikely.

Who says they should?

Yet, instead, it is not uncommon that a people who look alike are being typed exactly the same.

Typed by who? Regular people? Do I assume someone to have very similar personality as Sheamus if he looks similar? Maybe... ...but I also know I can be totally wrong.

So the thing they have been trying to find out, by typing enough people, is if (or how much) having the same type of genetics that produces their physical appearance, ends up shaping their actual personality. It could be coincidence, but also maybe not, maybe there is something deeper to it.
It's just one idea they want to eventually bring forward to scientists to investigate further.

TYT was joking all crazy trumpists seem to have small faces compared to the head size. Maybe they are into something?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 11, 2020, 03:15:24 AM
The personality could be shaped by being consistently treated based on their physical appearance. Like encouraging an attractive child to be more confident and extroverted.

Good point!
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 11, 2020, 09:22:36 AM
The personality could be shaped by being consistently treated based on their physical appearance. Like encouraging an attractive child to be more confident and extroverted.
Ehh well there's some limits I guess... that example fits me, but although there were certain years of my life where I was like an extrovert (because so many friends were around me), I always felt like introversion was more natural. Never did I make much effort to make friends, there were either people around me that clicked or there wasn't, and it didn't matter which is the case (still true today).



Conservatism has it's place. For example I am for conserving this planet by taking action to fight climate change.

As I have said, the "left" is not all the same. Some people on the left are into cultural war and indeed push for censorship not understanding the left is one of the the first groups censorship will attack, because the left challenges those in power. People like Kyle Kulinski on the other hand are not into cultural war, but economics. Instead of cencorship they push for medicare for all, tuition free education etc. stuff that would help most people. Kyle Kulinski, a free speech absolutist, has been VERY critical to those who call for censorship. My point is the left is not all the same just as not every Trumpist is the same.
Of course, I do recognize the difference and think a little bit of left-leaning policies here and there could help things.



Who says they should?
I'm not sure I phrased that in an intelligible way... made some edits to my phrasing. Never mind.


Typed by who? Regular people? Do I assume someone to have very similar personality as Sheamus if he looks similar? Maybe... ...but I also know I can be totally wrong.
There's two people that invented this system and they have worked out enough of their system where they can separately type people and get the same results consistently (above 90% of the time).
Which is statistically highly improbable- agreeing on the correct type for one person is less than a .02% chance of happening. Yet they consistently do it.
You do have to hope that they aren't lying, but this is their business, I think it is unlikely that they are lying. They have been trying to get people to join their team (but no luck still).

No, you don't assume assume people that look like Sheamus would have the same personality, never assume that. More often people that look similar should have different types. But it was unexpected that so many similar people DID end up having the same type.


Also, they typed me and my guess (which I didn't tell them) was VERY close. Odds are low that I would be that close. And as time passed, I agree with their typing more and more. So that's why I have legit confidence in their system, even if it is complex, confusing, and they don't explain it well enough.

(btw for my type they only found two women, but David Blaine is the closest guy to my type, and I totally agree on this, he gives the same vibes as I think I do)


TYT was joking all crazy trumpists seem to have small faces compared to the head size. Maybe they are into something?
Yeah, possibly.
Gonna take a wild guess, just based on that image, they are probably higher in testosterone.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 11, 2020, 09:39:03 AM
TYT was joking all crazy trumpists seem to have small faces compared to the head size. Maybe they are into something?
Question- did they say anything of the opposite?

Like bigger faces = more left leaning?

I can't tell if I have a big or normal sized face, but it isn't small like that guy. If they made any observation like that, do they have a guess who I would support?

btw this should be evidence I'm not a Trumpist, despite the people who want to box me in to being one.  :D

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MxSzykH3s8T82z_62Pr-mNhWmrJsrsHm/preview

(also regarding my guess, I don't have low T but I still feel like smaller faces might indicate high T, just more of a tendency- could be totally wrong, but whatever)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 11, 2020, 09:54:02 AM
One more thought, since I get some sort of implication here that personality can be shaped when young- which, sure there are some things, but:

ok, take the Enneagram Type 5 core belief- "can't rely on anyone- gotta be totally self-sufficient"

I was never taught then when I was young. I was an only child until 10 years old, but IMO that wasn't a factor because I could always rely on my parents.

And my mom has always been telling me "no man is an island," which I 100% disagree with.

So something about that resonates from a biological level, not a socially conditioned level. It just feels good to be self-sufficient. I HATE having to rely on others and feel like the world would be better if other people believed the same. People should stop being so needy of others for information and for social support, as much as possible. Of course, you can't totally be self-sufficient, but it is ideal to be as much so as possible.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: steve ridgway on December 11, 2020, 10:38:29 AM
"No man is an island" is clearly untrue - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man). :P

So something about that resonates from a biological level, not a socially conditioned level. It just feels good to be self-sufficient. I HATE having to rely on others and feel like the world would be better if other people believed the same. People should stop being so needy of others for information and for social support, as much as possible. Of course, you can't totally be self-sufficient, but it is ideal to be as much so as possible.

I am the same, work things out for myself and would never fall into the clutches of the counselling or mental health industries.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 11, 2020, 09:35:44 PM
I am the same, work things out for myself and would never fall into the clutches of the counselling or mental health industries.
Yeah, pretty sure Tony Robbins doesn't know what's best for us.  :D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 04:31:15 AM
Question- did they say anything of the opposite?

Like bigger faces = more left leaning?

No they didn't as far as I remember.

I can't tell if I have a big or normal sized face, but it isn't small like that guy. If they made any observation like that, do they have a guess who I would support?

I suppose the absolute size of your face doesn't matter, but how it relates to your head size. You are thinking too much about what "they" (TYT?) would guess. If you are not a trumpist then you aren't one regardless of your face size.

btw this should be evidence I'm not a Trumpist, despite the people who want to box me in to being one.  :D

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MxSzykH3s8T82z_62Pr-mNhWmrJsrsHm/preview

Who says you are a trumpist? I have never thought you are one based on what you write here. Apparently I don't have Google drive access and I am not gonno ask for it just to see your link, sorry.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 07:23:29 AM
Unscientific and just for fun!

Are you a Trumpist? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/pol/trump/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/pol/trump/test.php)

My score: Your Trump Factor is 0%, which makes you No Donald. Oh, boy, oh boy. You'd better hope we're not going to tell Mr. Trump about your score, because he's going to have something to say about this and it isn't going to be moonlight and roses. If you're that far gone, you might as well be Rosie O'Donnell and not the real Donald. It's probably best for everyone if you and the Donald go your separate ways. Get outta here - you're fired!

Are you a Communist? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php)

My score: 4%, not Communist. Your personal agreement with communism is low, indicating that you support few of communism’s principles as presented in classical Marxian literature. You most likely believe in the necessity of private property and private business, as well as the right to free economic association and individually-controlled production. You most likely also believe that individuals are more motivated by the prospect of personal gain than by serving the needs of some amorphous social group (such as “society”) that the individual perhaps never asked to be a part of.

Are you a Fascist? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/fascist-elements/test.php

My score: Your fascist elements are very low (13.5%).. The general picture is this:

(https://charts.idrlabs.com/graphic/fascist-elements?1&p=80,25,0,0,10,10,0,0,0,10&l=EN)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 07:40:18 AM
Are you a Trumpist?

Your Trump Factor is 0%, which makes you No Donald. 

(Wasn't this posted before?  I always chuckle when I see a/the dig at Jeb.)

Are you a Communist?

10%

Are you a Fascist?

9.5%
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 07:44:55 AM
Your Trump Factor is 0%, which makes you No Donald. 

(Wasn't this posted before? 

Yes, by yours truly --- but I couldn't find it so I started it anew.  :D

Quote
10% Communist

That's 6 points more than me. You're a Pinko!  ;D

Quote
9.5% Fascist

That's 4 points less than me. I'm a rightwing nutjob!  ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 07:48:52 AM
That's 6 points more than me. You're a Pinko!

Most people would think so.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 08:10:05 AM
Blimey, I never knew I was Very Privileged (83.3%).

Are you too? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/intersectionalism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/intersectionalism/test.php)

Seriously now, if being a 48yo white heterosexual educated English-speaking thin male in Romania means being very privileged, then both "very" and "privileged" have lost any meaning whatsoever.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 08:15:32 AM
Are you too?


Yes, I am.  I also scored precisely 83.3%

Using the more accurate assessment available on reddit (I believe), I am officially a Shitlord.  I am comfortable with that.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 08:27:25 AM

Yes, I am.  I also scored precisely 83.3%

 8)

Quote
Using the more accurate assessment available on reddit (I believe), I am officially a Shitlord.  I am comfortable with that.

Link, please?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 08:31:51 AM
Link, please?


It has been years since I took it.  I was so satisfied with the results that I never bothered to remember the link.  When you've reached an exalted status like Shitlord, you simply revel in how wonderful it feels.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 08:46:38 AM

It has been years since I took it.  I was so satisfied with the results that I never bothered to remember the link.  When you've reached an exalted status like Shitlord, you simply revel in how wonderful it feels.

What is a Shitlord?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 08:48:41 AM
Are you a Conservative? https://www.idrlabs.com/conservatism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/conservatism/test.php)

My score: 48%, Somewhat Conservative. Your personal degree of conservatism is moderate, indicating that you share some of conservatism’s values and sentiments. While you most likely agree with certain conservative sensibilities and see the value in some traditional principles, you also find that other elements of conservatism go a step too far towards old-fashioned morality and the unquestioning obedience to the wisdom of one’s forebears. You also might have noticed that your degree of agreement with conservatism has fluctuated across your lifetime in accordance with your self-perceived status at various points in your life.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 08:50:45 AM
What is a Shitlord?


I strongly encourage using Google for this one.  Hopefully, you end up on a site affiliated in some way with a US university.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 08:55:24 AM

I strongly encourage using Google for this one.  Hopefully, you end up on a site affiliated in some way with a US university.

The very first Google link that popped up gave me this:

A person who basks in the bitterness and misery of others.

Now, I am as imperfect and as sinner as a mortal can be and I can be accused of many things, rightly or wrongly --- but I strongly and indignantly reject the above. It's absolutely, completely and utterly unlike me.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 08:58:11 AM
The very first Google link that popped up gave me this:

A person who basks in the bitterness and misery of others.

Now, I am as imperfect and as sinner as a mortal can be and I can be accused of many things, rightly or wrongly --- but I strongly and indignantly reject the above. It's absolutely, completely and utterly unlike me.


But you must understand the context of the term itself.  It is associated with the pseudo-intellectual construct of "privilege", and therefore it is intrinsically worthless.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:06:57 AM

But you must understand the context of the term itself.  It is associated with the pseudo-intellectual construct of "privilege", and therefore it is intrinsically worthless.

Oh, of course, I got all that alright. I just basked in a little leftist self-righteousness.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 09:09:21 AM
Blimey, I never knew I was Very Privileged (83.3%).

Are you too? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/intersectionalism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/intersectionalism/test.php)

Seriously now, if being a 48yo white heterosexual educated English-speaking thin male in Romania means being very privileged, then both "very" and "privileged" have lost any meaning whatsoever.

The test doesn't know you are Romanian. It assumes you are American. My score was 68.8 %
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
The test doesn't know you are Romanian. It assumes you are American. My score was 68.8 %

I always answer any test from my Romanian perspective. America is not the be-all-end-all of the world.  :)

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 09:18:49 AM
America is not the be-all-end-all of the world.

Incorrect.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:19:25 AM
Are you a Libertarian? https://www.idrlabs.com/libertarian/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/libertarian/test.php)

My score: You are 0% Libertarian, which makes you Not Libertarian. In your case it is safe to say that you are *not* a libertarian. Whether because you prefer a greater degree of social discipline or economic regulation (or possibly both), you probably tend to find large swatches of the libertarian program to be far-fetched, extremist, and possibly even downright repulsive. If you are not the argumentative type, you had best stay clear of libertarians - they have a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.

The closest I got to being Libertarian is in agreeing that anyone with a driving licence and a car should be a taxi driver if he so wishes --- and that's because there was a flourishing black market in this respect during the Communist regime ---- I remember coming back with my parents from a holiday so many times, descending from the train and getting a guy with a car to drive us home at lower rates than the official taxis --- illegal, of course, but so widespread a practice that it was mostly tolerated byt the authorities.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:20:56 AM
Incorrect.

It might be incorrect on GMG. In the world at large it's correct.  ;)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:26:27 AM
If you are not the argumentative type, you had best stay clear of libertarians - they have a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.[/i]

The irony is that I am not a Libertarian yet some people might say I have a a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 09:36:20 AM
Are you a Communist? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php)

My score: 4%, not Communist. Your personal agreement with communism is low, indicating that you support few of communism’s principles as presented in classical Marxian literature. You most likely believe in the necessity of private property and private business, as well as the right to free economic association and individually-controlled production. You most likely also believe that individuals are more motivated by the prospect of personal gain than by serving the needs of some amorphous social group (such as “society”) that the individual perhaps never asked to be a part of.

My score is 47 %  :o

Your personal agreement with communism is moderate, indicating that you support some of communism’s basic principles as put forth by the classical Marxian literature. While you most likely agree with certain communist doctrines, such as the reduction of inequalities and a certain skepticism towards the free market, you most likely also find that other features of communism go a step too far towards collectivized power and control. You also might have noticed that your degree of agreement with communism has fluctuated across your lifetime in accordance with your self-perceived status at various points in your life.

The problem with this tests is it thinks there is only communism and capitalism and nothing else, but in reality there's only mixed economies resulting in a spectrum of systems that can be listen like this:

Communism/Socialism - Democratic Socialism - Social Democracy - Capitalism - Crony Capitalism.

This tests actually puts me in the middle of this spectrum which is Social Democracy which is correct as I am a vivid supporter of Social Democracy.  :)



Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 09:41:51 AM
I always answer any test from my Romanian perspective. America is not the be-all-end-all of the world.  :)

The test doesn't know about your Romanian perspective! It assumes you answer based on American perspective. Being white in Romania is very diffrent from being white in the US for example. My score is probably too low because the test doesn't know I am Finnish. In the US I would be totally screwed! In Finland I am ok, struggling, but okay.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:47:46 AM
What USA President Are You? https://www.idrlabs.com/big-five/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/big-five/test.php)

My score:

Out of 25 U.S. Presidents, you are the most like:

(https://www.idrlabs.com/static/i/big-five/james-madison.jpg)


James Madison - "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive, will not long be safe companions to liberty."

Compared to the general population, you are:

    Above average on Openness
    Low on Conscientiousness
    Low on Extroversion
    High on Agreeableness
    Low on Neuroticism


According to a study done by Jeffery J. Mondak, Ph.D., your scores indicate that you are:

    Not likely to discriminate on the basis of race or sexual orientation. - Yes.
    More likely to be pro-choice rather than pro-life. - No, I'm staunchly pro-life
    Likely to feel trapped by the status quo. - No.
    Likely to enjoy complex and abstract discussions. - Yes.
    Likely to be more knowledgeable on academic topics. - Yes.
    Less likely to favor military intervention as a means of solving foreign policy problems. - Yes
    More likely to think that international cooperation will solve foreign policy problems. - Mostly, but not always
    Less likely to take an active interest in your community, preferring instead to go your own way. - Yes.
    More likely to be cosmopolitan in tastes and less likely to be patriotic and proud of your country. - I'm both a cosmopolitan and a patriot.
    Less likely to enjoy romantic fiction than the rest of the population. - If romantic fiction means Barbara Cartland drivel, then yes.
    Less likely to have a tolerant attitude towards smoking. - Yes.
    More likely to favor harsh criminal punishments over milder ones. - Yes with respect to rape and paedophilia
    Less likely to watch TV and read the news, preferring instead to follow your own interests. - Yes, except during election time.
    Less likely to mobilize your friends in your own interests, preferring instead to immerse yourself in your interests in solitude. - Yes.
    Someone who seems impassive to others, while being in fact quite sure of your own views. - Yes.
    Less likely to frequently change jobs and partners. - Yes.
    Less likely to end up in jail or to get in trouble with the law. - Yes.
    More likely to generally agree with your immediate friends and family. - Yes.
    More likely to simply avoid people who are hostile to you, or with whom you are in disagreement. - Yes.
    More likely to oppose capital punishment. - Yes in principle, some cases challenge me greatly
    More likely to take a favorable view of government welfare programs. - Yes in principle, some cases challenge me greatly
    More likely to enjoy fitness training and physical exercise. - No.
    More likely to nurture a few select beliefs that you regard as settled in stone. - Yes.
    Less likely to flirt with harm and danger. - Yes.
    Less likely to have insurance or to belong to a labor union. - Yes.


Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:51:21 AM
The test doesn't know about your Romanian perspective! It assumes you answer based on American perspective. Being white in Romania is very diffrent from being white in the US for example. My score is probably too low because the test doesn't know I am Finnish. In the US I would be totally screwed! In Finland I am ok, struggling, but okay.

That's the limitation of all those tests, they always assume one is either American or aspiring to be one.  ;D

I take them all just for fun, and so should you.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: ritter on December 12, 2020, 09:54:34 AM
.... people might say I have a a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.  :D :D :D
You ? ? ? YOU ? ? ?  Noooooo ! ! !    ;D

Good evening to you, Andrei.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 09:59:53 AM
You ? ? ? YOU ? ? ?  Noooooo ! ! !    ;D

Good evening to you, Andrei.

To you as well, Rafael!

Please be honest --- if I ever have been insufferable in an argument with you, just say it! Chances are I probably was.  ;)

But then again, as I said multiple times to multiple GMGers, there's no disagreement whatsoever that can't be cured by having a drink together --- and I stand by it. so help me God!  8)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 12, 2020, 10:21:34 AM
Who says you are a trumpist? I have never thought you are one based on what you write here. Apparently I don't have Google drive access and I am not gonno ask for it just to see your link, sorry.
Oh, ok no problem then.
Mostly it was Herman, for a period of time, was constantly implying I was a Trumpist for disagreeing with some of the negative assessments of him.
The error of this assumption is that defending is not the same thing at all as supporting.
If someone around me kept repeating that Stalin was a pedo, and he wasn't, I'd say that I don't think they are correct.
And if there were signs of him (tons of red flags) but no hard evidence, then I'd say "he could be one, but it's not a 100% sure thing because there is no hard evidence."
And I would probably be called some names (in an alternate universe where this scenario would be a thing).  :P


Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 12, 2020, 10:28:35 AM
Blimey, I never knew I was Very Privileged (83.3%).

Are you too? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/intersectionalism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/intersectionalism/test.php)

Seriously now, if being a 48yo white heterosexual educated English-speaking thin male in Romania means being very privileged, then both "very" and "privileged" have lost any meaning whatsoever.
This makes you Exceedingly Privileged (91.7%).


Haha, suck it, losers!

But seriously, I like how "Wealthy" is just one factor of 12, when rich people, no matter what they look like, have so much power over your life and opportunities.
"Wealthy" is 90% of the privilege in the world, not <10%.
And they don't even ask about nation of birth at all, there is a worldwide privilege and a national privilege, two things that are way different.
Intersectionality truly is toxic bullshit.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 10:35:24 AM
Oh, ok no problem then.
Mostly it was Herman, for a period of time, was constantly implying I was a Trumpist for disagreeing with some of the negative assessments of him.
The error of this assumption is that defending is not the same thing at all as supporting.

Herman implied / openly stated I was a Trumpist, too ---- actually, for him I was "one of the most vocal Trump supporters". He was assuming manifoild errors:

1. Whoever is not with us is against us. Typical Communist / Fascist / Nazi / authoritarian mindset.

2. Fact-checking is defending. As you said, stating that Stalin was not a paedophile amounts to defending Stalin's policies.

3. One can't be both right-of-center and honest. Left is automatically good, right is automatically bad.




Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 12, 2020, 10:36:45 AM
Are you a Communist? Find out here: https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php)
28% Not a Communist

Your personal agreement with communism is low, indicating that you support few of communism’s principles as presented in classical Marxian literature. You most likely believe in the necessity of private property and private business, as well as the right to free economic association and individually-controlled production. You most likely also believe that individuals are more motivated by the prospect of personal gain than by serving the needs of some amorphous social group (such as “society”) that the individual perhaps never asked to be a part of.



Herman implied / openly stated I was a Trumpist, too ---- actually, for him I was "one of the most vocal Trump supporters". He was assuming manifoild errors:

1. Whoever is not with us is against us. Typical Communist / Fascist / Nazi / authoritarian mindset.

2. Fact-checking is defending. As you said, stating that Stalin was not a paedophile amounts to defending Stalin's policies.

3. One can't be both right-of-center and honest. Left is automatically good, right is automatically bad.

Exactly! Great analysis.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 10:45:53 AM
My score is 47 %  :o

Your personal agreement with communism is moderate, indicating that you support some of communism’s basic principles as put forth by the classical Marxian literature. While you most likely agree with certain communist doctrines, such as the reduction of inequalities and a certain skepticism towards the free market, you most likely also find that other features of communism go a step too far towards collectivized power and control. You also might have noticed that your degree of agreement with communism has fluctuated across your lifetime in accordance with your self-perceived status at various points in your life.

The problem with this tests is it thinks there is only communism and capitalism and nothing else, but in reality there's only mixed economies resulting in a spectrum of systems that can be listen like this:

Communism/Socialism - Democratic Socialism - Social Democracy - Capitalism - Crony Capitalism.

This tests actually puts me in the middle of this spectrum which is Social Democracy which is correct as I am a vivid supporter of Social Democracy.  :)

I am a fanatical Centrist.  :D

I fully subscribe to this:

Quote from: Leszek Kolakowski

“Motto: “Please step forward to the rear!” This is an approximate translation of a request I once heard on a tram-car in Warsaw. I propose it as a slogan for the mighty International that will never exist.

A Conservative Believes:

    That in human life there never have been and never will be improvements that are not paid for with deteriorations and evils; thus, in considering each project of reform and amelioration, its price has to be assessed. Put another way, innumerable evils are compatible (i.e. we can suffer them comprehensively and simultaneously); but many goods limit or cancel each other, and therefore we will never enjoy them fully at the same time. A society in which there is no equality and no liberty of any kind is perfectly possible, yet a social order combining total equality and freedom is not. The same applies to the compatibility of planning and the principle of autonomy, to security and technical progress. Put yet another way, there is no happy ending in human history.
    That we do not know the extent to which various traditional forms of social life–families, rituals, nations, religious communities–are indispensable if life in a society is to be tolerable or even possible. There are no grounds for believing that when we destroy these forms, or brand them as irrational, we increase the chance of happiness, peace, security, or freedom. We have no certain knowledge of what might occur if, for example, the monogamous family was abrogated, or if the time-honored custom of burying the dead were to give way to the rational recycling of corpses for industrial purposes. But we would do well to expect the worst.
    That the idee fixe of the Enlightenment–that envy, vanity, greed, and aggression are all caused by the deficiencies of social institutions and that they will be swept away once these institutions are reformed– is not only utterly incredible and contrary to all experience, but is highly dangerous. How on earth did all these institutions arise if they were so contrary to the true nature of man? To hope that we can institutionalize brotherhood, love, and altruism is already to have a reliable blueprint for despotism.


 A Liberal Believes:

    That the ancient idea that the purpose of the State is security still remains valid. It remains valid even if the notion of “security” is expanded to include not only the protection of persons and property by means of the law, but also various provisions of insurance: that people should not starve if they are jobless; that the poor should not be condemned to die through lack of medical help; that children should have free access to education–all these are also part of security. Yet security should never be confused with liberty. The State does not guarantee freedom by action and by regulating various areas of life, but by doing nothing. In fact security can be expanded only at the expense of liberty. In any event, to make people happy is not the function of the State.
    That human communities are threatened not only by stagnation but also by degradation when they are so organized that there is no longer room for individual initiative and inventiveness. The collective suicide of mankind is conceivable, but a permanent human ant-heap is not, for the simple reason that we are not ants.
    That it is highly improbable that a society in which all forms of competitiveness have been done away with would continue to have the necessary stimuli for creativity and progress. More equality is not an end in itself, but only a means. In other words, there is no point to the struggle for more equality if it results only in the leveling down off those who are better off, and not in the raising up of the underprivileged. Perfect equality is a self-defeating ideal.


 A Socialist Believes:

    That societies in which the pursuit of profit is the sole regulator of the productive system are threatened with as grievous–perhaps more grievous–catastrophes as are societies in which the profit motive has been entirely eliminated from the production-regulating forces. There are good reasons why freedom of economic activity should be limited for the sake of security, and why money should not automatically produce more money. But the limitation of freedom should be called precisely that, and should not be called a higher form of freedom.
    That it is absurd and hypocritical to conclude that, simply because a perfect, conflict-less society is impossible, every existing form of inequality is inevitable and all ways of profit-making justified. The kind of conservative anthropological pessimism which led to the astonishing belief that a progressive income tax was an inhuman abomination is just as suspect as the kind of historical optimism on which the Gulag Archipelago was based.
    That the tendency to subject the economy to important social controls should be encouraged, even though the price to be paid is an increase in bureaucracy. Such controls, however, must be exercised within representative democracy. Thus it is essential to plan institutions that counteract the menace to freedom which is produced by the growth of these very controls.

So far as I can see, this set of regulative ideas is not self-contradictory. And therefore it is possible to be a conservative-liberal-socialist. This is equivalent to saying that those three particular designations are no longer mutually exclusive options.

As for the great and powerful International which I mentioned at the outset–it will never exist, because it cannot promise people that they will be happy.”


From Leszek Kolakowski, Modernity on Endless Trial (University of Chicago, 1990).
[/size]
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 12, 2020, 10:58:20 AM
I am a fanatical Centrist.  :D
Check out the Jreg Centricide series on youtube. 
And don't let the political extremist boogeymen who sleep under your bed attack you at night. ;D


Democratic Socialism - Social Democracy - Capitalism
What is the main difference, briefly, between these three?
So the USA is Capitalism and you are for Social Democracy? I thought Bernie was for Democratic Socialism.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Now, this is quite interesting: Collectivism Test https://www.idrlabs.com/collectivism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/collectivism/test.php)

My result:

You tried to distinguish Socialism from Nazism and Fascism and got it right 45% of the time.

You were able to correctly identify:

14.3% of Fascist statements.
20% of Nazi statements.
62.5% of Socialist statements.


I'm not surprised. I never lived in Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany; I was born and raised in the Socialist Republic of Romania.  ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: ritter on December 12, 2020, 11:28:47 AM
I never lived in Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany or Communist Romania, and got it 55% right...  ;)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 11:37:53 AM

     Most people don't push their collectivism to an extreme extent at all, either left or right. You can join the army or support a welfare state and still be quite an individualist in favor of freedom and even an open society. Most people who are socialist, liberal or conservative don't want to live in a dictatorship of any kind.

     The big divide is between members of the groups who prefer to live in free societies and those who don't.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:40:51 AM
I never lived in Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany or Communist Romania, and got it 55% right...  ;)

Yeah, but you live in post-Franco Spain...  ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:42:21 AM
     The big divide is between members of the groups who prefer to live in free societies and those who don't.

Define "free societies".  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:45:29 AM
Just took this: https://www.idrlabs.com/morality/6/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/morality/6/test.php)

My result:

Your scores:

Care 100%
Loyalty 25%
Fairness 75%
Authority 58%
Purity 92%   
Liberty 86%

Your strongest moral foundation is Care.

Your morality is closest to that of a Left-Liberal.


I'm a bleeding-heart liberal ---- take that, Herman!  ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
I just took this: https://www.idrlabs.com/political-left-right/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/political-left-right/test.php)

I answered in all earnest,  according to the current Romanian context. I got this result:

(https://charts.idrlabs.com/graphic/political-left-right?i=8&p=60,40&l=EN)

One of the most vocal Trumpists, eh?  ;D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 12:00:12 PM
Define "free societies".  ;D ;D ;D

     It's when your freedom is compatible with the freedom of others and institutions of government are so arranged. It's how most liberals, conservatives and socialists choose to live. It's a very collective way for non-collectivists to get along with people who don't share their views.

   
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
     It's when your freedom is compatible with the freedom of others and institutions of government are so arranged.

That is, it's never. Never ever. Ever. Is Biden's freedom compatible wirth Trump's? Is the USA government so arranged as to guarantee both?

Quote
It's how most liberals, conservatives and socialists choose to live.

That's very true, because most liberals, conservatives and socialists are just most normal human beings, ie centrists.

Quote
It's a very collective way for non-collectivists to get along with people who don't share their views.

See above. Most normal people are centrists by nature.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
   Most people who are socialist, liberal or conservative don't want to live in a dictatorship of any kind.

That's also true, yet historically many of them ended up living in a dictatorship. Do you have an explanation for this?
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 12:33:46 PM
Now, this is quite interesting: Collectivism Test https://www.idrlabs.com/collectivism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/collectivism/test.php)


I have never lived in a Fascist, Nazi, or Socialist country, yet I got 65%.  I did attend an American university, so that explains it.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 12:36:20 PM

I have never lived in a Fascist, Nazi, or Socialist country, yet I got 65%.  I did attend an American university, so that explains it.

Hah!  ;D

But please, share your specific percentages, that's the interesting part!  ;)

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 12:38:01 PM
But please, break it down to specific percentages, that's the interesting part!  ;)


Already closed the screen, but my ability to spot Nazi ideas (80%) was tops.  It's all the time I spend reading posts here at GMG, you see.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 12:39:36 PM

Already closed the screen, but my ability to spot Nazi ideas (80%) was tops.  It's all the time I spend reading posts here at GMG, you see.

(chortle)

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 12:40:01 PM

Most normal people are centrists by nature.

     Of course, and abnormal people even more so. They want to be free to live with each other, which they do.

Is Biden's freedom compatible wirth Trump's? Is the USA government so arranged as to guarantee both?

     Yes, it is. Trump is finding his need to avoid severe legal problems incompatible with the results of the election. That's his view. My view is that he should be accorded the same protection of the law as everyone else, no more and no less. That applies to the results of the election and any further encounters he will have with the forces of law and order.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Todd on December 12, 2020, 12:45:47 PM
What USA President Are You? https://www.idrlabs.com/big-five/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/big-five/test.php)


(https://www.idrlabs.com/static/i/big-five/woodrow-wilson.jpg)

Um, nope.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 12:50:02 PM
     Of course, and abnormal people even more so. They want to be free to live with each other, which they do.

I do think and do believe that inveterate rapists and paedophiles should be punished severely, much  much much more severely than pickpockets  or corrupt politicians. They are abnormal people who should be prevented by all necessary means to do the abnormal things they bask in.

   
Quote
  Yes, it is. Trump is finding his need to avoid severe legal problems incompatible with the results of the election. That's his view. My view is that he should be accorded the same protection of the law as everyone else, no more and no less. That applies to the results of the election and any further encounters he will have with the forces of law and order.

Wait a minute! Are you saying, implying and stating that a Fascist should be accorded the same protection of the law as everyone else, no more and no less? If you do, then you are far more tolerant than me --- I would have all Fascists, Nazis and Communists hanged on the spot, right now, right there!
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 12:51:53 PM

(https://www.idrlabs.com/static/i/big-five/woodrow-wilson.jpg)

Um, nope.

Hah!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 12, 2020, 01:06:52 PM
Now, this is quite interesting: Collectivism Test https://www.idrlabs.com/collectivism/test.php (https://www.idrlabs.com/collectivism/test.php)

My result:

You tried to distinguish Socialism from Nazism and Fascism and got it right 45% of the time.

You were able to correctly identify:

14.3% of Fascist statements.
20% of Nazi statements.
62.5% of Socialist statements.


I'm not surprised. I never lived in Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany; I was born and raised in the Socialist Republic of Romania.  ;D
I chose Socialist for every question because every one sounded socialist/communist to me.

Collectivism Test
result icon
You tried to distinguish socialism from Nazism and fascism and got it right 40% of the time.
You were able to correctly identify:

0% of Fascist statements.
0% of Nazi statements.
100% of Socialist statements.

So 60% was Nazi-ism/Fascism?  ???

But yeah, makes sense, these ideologies can be grouped under collectivism. I guess identity politics in general could be as well. Not a fan.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 01:15:05 PM
I chose Socialist for every question because every one sounded socialist/communist to me.

Collectivism Test
result icon
You tried to distinguish socialism from Nazism and fascism and got it right 40% of the time.
You were able to correctly identify:

0% of Fascist statements.
0% of Nazi statements.
100% of Socialist statements.

Hah!  :D

Well, Mussolini started out as a Socialist activist and journalist, and Hitler's party was called the National-Socialist Party of the German Workers.  ;D


Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 03:04:04 PM
I do think and do believe that inveterate rapists and paedophiles should be punished severely, much  much much more severely than pickpockets  or corrupt politicians. They are abnormal people who should be prevented by all necessary means to do the abnormal things they bask in.


     I was thinking more along the lines of introverts or gold bugs, or artists, perhaps.


Wait a minute! Are you saying, implying and stating that a Fascist should be accorded the same protection of the law as everyone else, no more and no less? If you do, then you are far more tolerant than me --- I would have all Fascists, Nazis and Communists hanged on the spot, right now, right there!

     They are, and since I don't see how a society could remain free otherwise, they should have the protection of the law. However, I'm intolerant personally more than I am philosophically. To gold bugs I say......Get Thee Hence!

     
Quote
grouped under collectivism


      .....collected under groupism.....
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 03:23:04 PM
    I  don't see how a society could remain free otherwise, they should have the protection of the law.

Imagine Lenin was hanged immediately after setting foot on Russian soil and began propagandizing for Communism. Or HItler was hanged immediately after the Beer Hall Putsch.  Had not the world been a better place?

Freedom must be protected at any cost, including curtailing the freedom of all those who would curtail the freedom of anybody else. I say hang here and now all Communists, Fascists and Nazis!
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 04:02:15 PM
I take them all just for fun, and so should you.

I do.  ;)

These test make one-dimensional questions when the answers are often multidimensional (e.g. I support X if also Y is done, but if Y is not done I don't support X either, because it only makes sense with Y). The lack of multidimensional questions are made up having many one-dimensional questions and a simplistic algorithm tries to figure out how the person would have answered to fewer multi-dimensional questions.  :P

Democratic Socialism - Social Democracy - Capitalism
What is the main difference, briefly, between these three?
So the USA is Capitalism and you are for Social Democracy? I thought Bernie was for Democratic Socialism.

Societies and economy are so complex systems, that the differences are hard to explain.

In democratic socialism all or most means of production are owned by the people as a collective and how these means of production are run is decided democratically. This is the furthest right version of socialism and differs from socialism by having democratic process instead of the state telling what to do.

Social Democracy is the furthest left version of capitalism. It's build on capitalism, but also contains strong wellfare programs and many things are run by the state instead of private sector or together with private sector with heavy regulation (e.g. healthcare).

In Capitalism it is thought that poverty is a failure of the individual rather than the society and wellfare programs are kept minimal as an insentive to try harder and succeed in life. Those who do succeed can gain extreme wealth.

Hopefully this clarifies there terms a little bit for you, but be aware that these terms aren't defined that well and people may disagree about details, but this is more or less how I define them.

The US is not pure idealistic capitalism. It's crony capitalism. If the US was capitalistic, Exxon Mobile would not get $4 billion of subscidies each year just because it has bought the politicians to make it so. Legal bribery in the US makes the country crony capitalism aka corporate socialism.

Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, but he has the terminology wrong. His political agenda is to advocate Social Democracy, the system used in countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland which has empirically been very successful.

Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 04:11:11 PM
In democratic socialism all or most means of production are owned by the people as a collective and how these means of production are run is decided democratically.

There has not been, there is not, and there will not be anything even remotely ressembling democratic socialism.

The people as a collective is a fiction.

Democracy is a fiction.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM


Freedom must be protected at any cost, including curtailing the freedom of all those who would curtail the freedom of anybody else. I say hang here and now all Communists, Fascists and Nazis!

      I'd rather not kill it to save it.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 04:56:10 PM
There has not been, there is not, and there will not be anything even remotely ressembling democratic socialism.

The people as a collective is a fiction.

Democracy is a fiction.

     I call them enabling assumptions. We get the kind of freedom we have because we are predisposed to act on them.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 12, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
I do.  ;)

These test make one-dimensional questions when the answers are often multidimensional (e.g. I support X if also Y is done, but if Y is not done I don't support X either, because it only makes sense with Y). The lack of multidimensional questions are made up having many one-dimensional questions and a simplistic algorithm tries to figure out how the person would have answered to fewer multi-dimensional questions.  :P

Societies and economy are so complex systems, that the differences are hard to explain.

In democratic socialism all or most means of production are owned by the people as a collective and how these means of production are run is decided democratically. This is the furthest right version of socialism and differs from socialism by having democratic process instead of the state telling what to do.

Social Democracy is the furthest left version of capitalism. It's build on capitalism, but also contains strong wellfare programs and many things are run by the state instead of private sector or together with private sector with heavy regulation (e.g. healthcare).

In Capitalism it is thought that poverty is a failure of the individual rather than the society and wellfare programs are kept minimal as an insentive to try harder and succeed in life. Those who do succeed can gain extreme wealth.

Hopefully this clarifies there terms a little bit for you, but be aware that these terms aren't defined that well and people may disagree about details, but this is more or less how I define them.

The US is not pure idealistic capitalism. It's crony capitalism. If the US was capitalistic, Exxon Mobile would not get $4 billion of subscidies each year just because it has bought the politicians to make it so. Legal bribery in the US makes the country crony capitalism aka corporate socialism.

Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, but he has the terminology wrong. His political agenda is to advocate Social Democracy, the system used in countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland which has empirically been very successful.
Ok cool, I think I get it now, thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 07:37:15 PM
There has not been, there is not, and there will not be anything even remotely ressembling democratic socialism.

Not perhaps democratic socialist countries, but there has been politicians and political parties in many countries advocating these ideas. For example Mikhail Gorbachev wanted to move the Soviet Union towards democratic socialism.

The people as a collective is a fiction.

You might have a differing opinion when a Romanian athlete wins Olympic gold.  ;D

Democracy is a fiction.

Perhaps people in Romania feel that way, but there's plenty of countries including my country Finland which are pretty democratic.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 07:38:31 PM
Ok cool, I think I get it now, thanks for the explanation.

You're welcome.  ;)
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on December 15, 2020, 06:01:33 PM
Discovered two new systems the last two days- one is a bit complex and hard to understand, the other is pretty simple (it involves motivation styles and is from India). Not sure I'll ever discuss them, but they will be fun to dig in to.

Just a thought, but I often go to personality-database.com and do a search for some character (often fictional ones) and it seems that lately I've been very accurate lately on my guesses for their enneagram type (on the page it will give a bunch of votes from other people).

So it means that I'm understanding the enneagram system more and also I'm seeing the same thing that other people are seeing as the predominant traits of that character. It is statistically unlikely I would have the same guesses as others so often if the (main idea of) the system was a bunch of nonsense.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: Rosalba on January 05, 2021, 08:21:15 AM
The Artist, mainly - but with bits and pieces from the duty-fulfiller and the nurturer.
I might have had the originality spoken of but was crushed into timidity by a fierce and tyrannical father.
Title: Re: Personality Types
Post by: greg on January 10, 2021, 08:29:10 PM
Here's one that people might find fun:

Murderous Villain Test
https://www.idrlabs.com/villain/test.php


I don't know if I agree with the results and am also not so familiar with this evil villain, so for this test is a dud.  :P But could be a fun test for others.


(https://www.idrlabs.com/graphic/villain-graph?p1=0,44,33,44,56&p2=32,72,19,46,64&villain=Albert%20Speer&locale=EN)

Quote
Albert Speer
Albert Speer
Minister of Armaments in Nazi Germany
"One seldom recognizes the devil when he is putting his hand on your shoulder."

Personality Match

Like Albert Speer, you are intellectually minded. You see yourself as an observer of events rather than as a partaker in them - as someone who analyzes rather than influences, and thinks rather than does. However, you should remember that your detached analytical stance does not make you an innocent bystander in life and that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Passivity is also a choice that affects others.

Words of Warning

Points to consider for people with your personality - have you ever:

Shrugged your shoulders and given up trying to apply your own sense of what you knew was right, simply because other people's outlooks seemed so far from yours?
Come across as insensitive and absent-minded because you were so lost in your own inner analyses that you did not want to extend your attention to anything else?
Put your considerable analytical skills to work at solving problems that it would perhaps not be entirely ethical to solve, thinking only of the technical side of the situation, and not the moral one?
Diminished your own productivity by ceaselessly hunting down minor imperfections and mistakes in your own work, and constantly undoing the progress that you had made?
Knowingly wasted your talents because you "did not see the point" of all the striving and self-assertion that usually goes along with accomplishment and achievement?