GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Brewski on September 18, 2008, 10:20:03 AM

Title: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Brewski on September 18, 2008, 10:20:03 AM
A sad way to begin a thread, but just found out that Mauricio Kagel has died in Germany on Thursday.  A short article is here (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/232817,mauricio-kagel-composer-dies-at-76-in-germany.html); I'm trying to find a longer one.

His piece, Der Schall (1968) was one of the first contemporary pieces I ever heard.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Lethevich on September 18, 2008, 10:32:26 AM
The only works I've heard by him are two piano trios, which were very fine. Perhaps this could become a rec thread, for those of us who have heard very little...
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Guido on September 18, 2008, 10:54:30 AM
The only piece I know really is Match for two cellists and percussionist in which the cellists, dressed as tennis players try to out compete each other with virtuoso flourished. The Percussionist acts as umpire. There is not a single note in it that is not in some way inflected or distorted. A fantastic piece, and damned fine comedy too!
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: greg on September 18, 2008, 10:59:19 AM
Nooooooooooooooo       :'(


Here's the two CDs of his that I own:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YUaM29qkL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21EZ8HEVRXL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)



and the one I've listened to once:


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514p6x7f%2BlL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)



and the one I've read about in a book about extended instrumental techniques, and have watned to listen to:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41-0i1tUm1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)




In short, Kagel is a composer whose music is ALL about imagination. That's what you hear- it makes you go, "Hm!"  :)
His most accessible works that I know about are the last two String Quartets and "Pan", which has a piccolo along with SQ. (the first uses lots of extended techniques, and I think, rubber bands are even included somehow in the performance, but I can't remember how). He supposedly had a more traditional style later on in life after starting out very experimental.......
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Brewski on September 18, 2008, 11:46:36 AM
He was highly experimental, one of the most of any composer I know (in terms of the theatrical elements he added to his pieces).  I haven't heard Match--that sounds fantastic.

Thanks to UbuWeb, here (http://ubu.clc.wvu.edu/sound/kagel.html) are Acustica and Der Schall, available for listening.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: greg on September 18, 2008, 11:51:55 AM
He was highly experimental, one of the most of any composer I know (in terms of the theatrical elements he added to his pieces).  I haven't heard Match--that sounds fantastic.

Thanks to UbuWeb, here (http://ubu.clc.wvu.edu/sound/kagel.html) are Acustica and Der Schall, available for listening.

--Bruce
Awesome! I'm putting on Der Schall right away.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Brewski on September 18, 2008, 11:58:55 AM
Sorry, forgot to post the link to some of Kagel's films (http://ubu.clc.wvu.edu/film/kagel.html), also on UbuWeb.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: greg on September 18, 2008, 12:01:43 PM
 0:)

(that's a thanks)
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: bwv 1080 on September 18, 2008, 05:55:07 PM
There is a great recording of Music for Renaissance Instruments available free at the www.avantgardeproject.org/
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on February 23, 2010, 11:08:42 AM
I could have sworn I posted on a Kagel Thread recently, but it's not one of these two,...huh,...oh, well.

I got this recording of Kagel's SQ No.4, and,... YES!!,.. it is quite something special, I think. It's on a new cd, with, of all things, Keuris' No.1.



 It's in two mvmts., about 12mins a piece. There is an anonymously folkic quality to this music that does not eschew modern techniques. The second mvmt. begins with the most charming minor key figure, which is then answered in totally avant parodistic fashion. I think I even wanted to negatively prejudge this Sq, but it totally won me over. I was reminded of Kagel's generation of composers, who began to write very profoundly moving music in the last years of their lives (Boucourechliev's SQ No.3, Berio's Notturno). Don't be fooled by my language. I think you will really love this piece. It reminds me a little of Janacek's, or Malipiero's way (especially Janacek, though), of just following one thing with another without any real transition, bap, bap, bap.  It's da shizzle!
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on March 31, 2012, 11:55:34 AM
for the Kagel fans ..



Boy, Naxos getting all the big names now!.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Pessoa on December 04, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
My Kagel´s cds:

.Heterophonie/ Improvisation ajoutée....Wergo

.Orchestral works...............................Col Legno

.Mauricio Kagel 2................................Montaigne

.Piano works......................................CPO

.The Arditti SQ Edition.........................Montaigne
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Pessoa on December 04, 2013, 02:59:00 PM
And Playback Play.....WDR
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: 7/4 on December 04, 2013, 03:47:01 PM
Kagel is someone I need to investigate.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: EigenUser on June 28, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
I posted this on the listening thread, but I know it will get swept away in the currents of current listening trends. Has anyone heard of this piece, or heard it? It is called "...den 24.xii.1931" and it is scored for a chamber orchestra with baritone.

It's on YouTube (video performance): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ycBqMOWET0

The melody that gets stuck in my head starts around 3:43 in the video.

December 24th, 1931 (24.xii.1931) is Kagel's birthday. Subtitled "Garbled News", it is a piece for baritone and chamber orchestra where the baritone sings various news clippings (in German) from newspapers published/printed on the day he was born. I'm not a Kagel fan, but I admit that it is nicely done. A lot of stuff was happening then, obviously, from the rise of the Nazis to a major prison revolt in his homeland of Argentina. There is even a Nazi ad for cigarettes in there!
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008) STRING QUARTET NO.3
Post by: snyprrr on December 17, 2015, 08:58:39 AM
String Quartet No.3 (1986-87)

Kagel does the Schnittke thing with a whole lot more chops, imo. This thing a 35min., four mouvement work, very Classical, starting off with some unknown fairytale melody, but with problems- it's "post modern" of course,- there are going to be "problems". Now, there's really nothing scary here, and it's all very well crafted, but, it's not your gramp's Mendelssohn, that's for sure.

I'm looking into his 3 Piano Trios...

Anyhow, love that SQ...
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008) PIANO TRIOS 1 2 3
Post by: snyprrr on January 01, 2016, 10:16:02 AM
tHE kAGEL ptS ARE things all can evjoy.....



update
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on May 10, 2016, 06:10:38 AM
My Kagel´s cds:

.Heterophonie/ Improvisation ajoutée....Wergo

.Orchestral works...............................Col Legno

.Mauricio Kagel 2................................Montaigne

.Piano works......................................CPO

.The Arditti SQ Edition.........................Montaigne

Just went through the discography... it's not as detailed as one might think... besides the Winter&Winter and Disques Montaigne series, there's not all that much from such a varied output.

I'm still championing the 3 Piano Trios as the Absolute Music highpoint right now...




WHAT ABOUT "tACTIL', 'aCOUSTICA', 'eXOTICA'?????
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on August 23, 2016, 06:13:34 AM
I really became a huge Kagel fan this year, he's so versatile stylistically and aesthetically but his works is so fun, both the extremely absurd and the serious music. Are there many other Kagel nerds here?  ;)

I keep pushing the 3 Piano Trios, and the CPO disc with 'Serenade', and the String Quartet No.3...
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 11, 2017, 07:45:36 PM
I am more than surprised that the Kagel thread hasn't picked up discussion at all  :-[

Why?
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
I am more than surprised that the Kagel thread hasn't picked up discussion at all  :-[

ein....... zweeeei...........dreiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii................vierrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........funfunfunfunfunfunfunf......

SEX!! ;)
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008) kagel's bagel
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
It also would have done better with the proper ThreadTitle: Kagel's Bagel.
Title: Re: kagel's bagel
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 04:34:05 PM
Definitely a huge improvement  :D

Can Bruce fix it up??   ::)

He CAN

He WANTS

He WILL!!
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2017, 04:46:19 PM
Why not?

In other words, there are a ton of people who like similar music on here that it is surprising :)

But my point is Kagel isn't exactly a composer that gets much recognition around here. If I posted every time I feel a composer isn't getting the attention they deserve, I'd be well into the 50,000 post mark by now.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 04:56:07 PM
I am more than surprised that the Kagel thread hasn't picked up discussion at all  :-[

People think he's the guy that makes the trombonist bark like a dog.... oh,... yea,... he is!! :laugh:

Only five people know about String Quartet No.3 ;)

Next snowstorm I'll break out the 3 Piano Trios...
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 05:25:17 PM
I should make a recommendations list?  ;)
Seeing as I appear to be the only other person majorly listening to his work.

Have you heard his ensemble/orchestral work Snyprrr?

Yes, please make a Detailed list, by all means.

Orchestral- I've perused the ColLegno and DG sets,... I liked the AvantBaroque piece, but the music that sounds like Salon Muisc... that's the part of Kagel, and some other... umm... Accordion Lovers (lol)... that tyrolian flavor that many times is meant to be mocking of the Received Tradition... I mean, Kagel does do that a bit...

I wasn't to keen on the 'Wind Rose' pieces... those are the "salon" pieces? The 'Lieberliedkuss; or whatever I liked better, and the Sextet on that same disc...


I can't remember how far into 'Exotica', 'Tactil', or 'Acoustica', I have gotten,...




maybe it's the Pretentious Mine Aspect of Kagel people shy away from??? lol, that's funny


I need a good pretentious mime movie, got a recommends? :laugh: :'( :laugh: :'( :laugh: :'(



anyhow






Kagel would approve of the way I Post






































but that's just my opinion
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 12, 2017, 10:09:38 PM
That is an interesting observation you have made..........I have never introduced his music to anyone to be able to know this. What I find pretty cool about his music is his ability to be both experimental and fun at the same time. This was an also an aspect of Ligeti's music which owes to his popularity (aside from being featured in 2001 A Space Odyssey). His references to styles already in existence would create a lot of familiarity for people unfamiliar with his music as well.

I am currently listening to this excellent series of works. I would actually like to see what people think of his music when listening to these pieces for the first time! They are often fun and quirky. Kagel mixes up diatonicism and chromaticism a lot, possibly in a similar way that Stravinsky does in his popular Russian period of musical composition as well. There are lots of already familiar types of formal structures when it comes to phrases, periods etc. so there is a lot in this that any classical music fan would be familiar with anyway. I know that I can hear things in this music that aren't too far removed from composers like Britten, Ligeti, Shostakovich, Walton, even Reich at times, or styles like a tarantella, African and Afro-Cuban music. Mostly, elements from those styles have made their way into a plethora of classical compositions and popular music. I would be surprised if people listening to this wouldn't find anything they can at least connect with......it would probably come down to a kind of pickiness in how these styles are uniquely represented by Kagel.

(https://d3rt1990lpmkn.cloudfront.net/640/becbb053f9eb176d1f0e1ec1d7057c782e4ad78d)
I am copying this over from WAYLTN to ask the question of whether other can hear similarities between Kagel and these other composers/styles which I have mentioned.

Do you hear them too?

I believe this is a fairly recent release, at least on Spotify, because it has the year 2017 written next to it on my Spotify app.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 13, 2017, 08:16:46 PM
Haha yep I knew the Ligeti influence! I haven't heard so much Kagel but I've read about his works a bit.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: chadfeldheimer on January 14, 2017, 10:28:22 AM
I am more than surprised that the Kagel thread hasn't picked up discussion at all  :-[
I agree, Kagel definitely doesn't get enough attention on this forum. He wrote a huge number of fantastic pieces and imo did not went out of steam till the end of his life. His later works are a more accessible than the earlier ones, but still retain the same strange humour and ironic bite, which is not everybody's cup of tea, of course. My latest purchase of his music is the radio play "playback play" and I like it a lot. It's a pity that many of his earlier works are not available on CD.
Title: Re: Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
Post by: snyprrr on January 27, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
Ok, I'll do this as a "beginners" list  :laugh: by category:

Vocal:
Anagrama

Orchestral:
Heterophonie
Les idées fixes
Opus 1.991
Etudes for orchestra


Chamber:
Music for renaissance instruments
Der Schall
Rrrrrr..... (that's it's name)                            Serenade
The piano trios
Acustica                                                       Transicion
Phantasiestück

All three String Quartets                        String Quartet No.4

Film:
Start with Ludwig Van and Antithese

Bonus round - Oratorio:
St. Bach Passion  8)

Then you got stuff like Staatstheater which is in a league of it's own.... ;)