Personality Types

[71 dB]

I repeat: unless and until a professional, accredited psychiatrist diagnoses you or anyone else, whatever you think or feel is just baseless assumption.

How is it baseless? Do you have better explanation for my struggles and experiencies in life than autism? Why do I experience what autistic people experience if I am not autistic? If I am not autistic then WHAT am I? Certainly I am not "normal." I would be again totally clueless why I am how I am...

[71 dB]

Unless and until you are diagnosed by a psychiatrist you cannot assume anything, Poju. The tests you take are not proffessional and thus are highly unreliable.

Mere social clumsiness does not eșuate with autism.
 

What else causes social clumsiness than autism? What are all the options here?

[DavidW]

What else causes social clumsiness than autism? What are all the options here?

ADHD, social isolation, introversion, shyness, sociopathy, psychopathy, anxiety, mental disability, Down syndrome, acquired neurodiversity from trauma, depression, and I'm sure there are others.

A professional working with you over a long period of time would be able to see more clearly than you might be able to see yourself. But you could be right.

[71 dB]

ADHD, social isolation, introversion, shyness, sociopathy, psychopathy, anxiety, mental disability, Down syndrome, acquired neurodiversity from trauma, depression, and I'm sure there are others.

A professional working with you over a long period of time would be able to see more clearly than you might be able to see yourself. But you could be right.

Some of those things you listed are often linked to autism I believe (even consequencies of autism).

I don't have Down syndrome and I am very sure I don't have sociopathy/psychopathy either. In fact those traits are ofter linked with very high social skill (the ability to manipulate people of very extroverted people). Work life causes me anxiety (typical for autistic people unless they find themselves an autism-friendly working place).

I feel I have been this way all my life, before and after traumas and depressions etc. I probably have some mental disability, but autistic one (Asperger's I believe).

All of this is just labels. Certain type of people are just called autistic to separate them from "normies." I am not a normy. That much is clear. So I am a non-normy. If the label for that is autism so be it. What is relevant is recognicing and understanding my issues and differences from normies.

So, if you are not happy about me calling myself autistic, what do you want me to call myself? A psychopath? The US seems to be eager to diagnose autistic people because it is an extroverted culture and autistic people really stick out. Finland has much more introverted culture and autism doesn't show up so easily especially if autistic people mask, but that doesn't mean autistic people don't struggle. Masking takes energy and operating in a system tailored for normies can lead to burnout. I may search for a way to get diagnosed (Is it expensive? Is it complicated? Will it be an unpleasant experience?), but for now I am happy about understanding myself and other people much better than before this self-diagnose.

The main realisation for me in this self-diagnose process was to learn that people have differently operating brains due to how brains have developped. The differences are not just quantitive (such as IQ), but also qualitative (the style the brain processes information). Normies have the default "configuration" while autistic people have alternative configurations with disadvantages (e.g. social clumsiness) and advantages (e.g. ability to pay attention to detail normal people don't).

I lived decades considering myself an introverted normy, but after this self-diagnose process I believe I am actually an extroverted autistic person (someone with mild high functioning autism, namely Asperger's). I'm still more introverted (and socially clumsier) than most people, but I am also extroverted compared to people with strong/severe autism. My autism wasn't a big problem in my youth, because the social expectations for children aren't that high, but my adulthood has been more of a struggle because of the social expectations. I have felt an alien all my life, but I feel in my adulthood I have been punished more for being different. I never suspected being autistic because my mental image of autism came from the movie "Rainman" rather than how broad of a spectrum it really is. High functioning autism explains so well what I have been experiencing all my life. It is hard to believe that's not what I am.

[greg]

You are not a psychiatrist, Greg --- as such, your are in no position, and have no qualification whatsoever, to make such blanket statements. You'd better refrain from doing it, not in the least because what you say obviously influences another person, equally layman.

I repeat: unless and until a professional, accredited psychiatrist diagnoses you or anyone else, whatever you think or feel is just baseless assumption.

Idk how you are interpreting such a loosely-written statement as me posing as some definitive authority on autism, making some definitive statements. Of course I'm not an autism expert. I'm just making observations and guesses. If I can't even do that, then there is no discussion. Why even talk about anything if one cannot speculate or mention observations.

How is it baseless? Do you have better explanation for my struggles and experiencies in life than autism? Why do I experience what autistic people experience if I am not autistic? If I am not autistic then WHAT am I? Certainly I am not "normal." I would be again totally clueless why I am how I am...

Lol

I've just explained it through typology so far. Being a rare type in some systems has held some explanatory power, though not completely.

it's unknown whether I have any actual psychological condition or not, but when I do compare to how most people are content to live, it's suuuuuuper alien to me, and makes me feel like, maybe I do? idk.

especially with being an adult for long enough, I went from the notion of having kids to being a "maybe" to being a "this world is so absurdly cruel that I just don't want to contribute to any more suffering."

zero development into being more normal lol

like, aren't people supposed to become more mature and well-adjusted, psychologically? I sure haven't.

btw I have an internet friend I've talked to for a few years about typology, she eventually just got an autism diagnosis.

[SimonNZ]

Most people feel awkward in social situations. Most people feel anxiety at work.

It's "neurotypical", if we must use that term.

If this is all you've got then what might really crush you is to learn that you're just another "normie", to use an even worse term.


edit: just remembered:  a little while ago I put some symptoms I was having into google and got back a diagnosis of...menopause.

Which I choose to believe without confirmation because it fits my image of myself.

[greg]

Most people feel awkward in social situations. Most people feel anxiety at work.

Yeah, this is the vast oversimplified argument that I get tired of hearing.
As if there is no sliding scale or variability between people.

It would be the last thing I would say to this autistic guy who used to work around me who wore headphones, had dyspraxia, and was super stressed all the time. He had a chat with this guy who sat next to me, wondering how he could be so chill all the time. I'm sure he didn't want to be super anxious always, he just couldn't help it. (And yeah, I've worked with plenty of non-autistic people that have high anxiety at work).

People just work differently. Even if it's not manifesting blatantly obvious on the outside, if someone is complaining about not being able to handle normal things (which is unflatteringly showing their weakness) then it's probably something worth looking into.

[SimonNZ]

Sure, but "worth looking into" means talking to your regular doctor, who may give you a referral to a specialist, or suggest other causes.

[DavidW]

Most people feel awkward in social situations. Most people feel anxiety at work.

I just went to a talk last week from our emotional wellness counselors. They told us that our students are quick to jump to describing themselves as having a disorder when they are experiencing a temporary emotional state like everyone else.

[greg]

Sure, but "worth looking into" means talking to your regular doctor, who may give you a referral to a specialist, or suggest other causes.

Ultimately, yes, of course.

But before that, there is always going to be a period of processing "why am I like this," "how do I describe myself," etc. and having discussions with others to maybe to rule out the possibilities of having x condition or not.

Since before going to a doctor you really need to have your shit together before you waste your time and money. It may even be years of questioning and discussion before then.


(I am unaware if Poju has or not, but if not, I think he should- it's been a while that he's been talking about possibly being autistic)

I just went to a talk last week from our emotional wellness counselors. They told us that our students are quick to jump to describing themselves as having a disorder when they are experiencing a temporary emotional state like everyone else.

I could see this- example, I mean, if you feel bad if your family dies you actually should feel depressed for a bit, it's normal.

What I have wondered if it's abnormal or not, is not being able to deal with things that most people have to deal with.

Like, lifelong depression at not being able to get what you want, to be stuck wasting your life away doing something that feels like it has nothing to do with you, etc.

Now that is something most people have to deal with- it's like a leg injury. But, it seems like most people are able to bandage it up through positive thinking to stop the bleeding, but for me positive thinking is automatically repelled be it is seen as fake, so the bleeding doesn't stop, so the only solution is to amputate the leg so I don't bleed to death.

So I guess the question is, what would happen if I forced the bandage to stay on? Then it would feel like the true me doesn't exist any more, everything is fake, the plot of my life doesn't make sense any more, etc.

So such a thing is more permanent and becomes reason to psychoanalyze more, because things that you should normally "just get over" are things you can't get over, and then it feels like something is wrong with you.

Because shouldn't you be content working in the coal mines 12 hours a day and coming home to eat shit while you live in a cardboard box with a wife that looks like an ogre? Other people are just fine living like that. Why can I never be fine with that?

[Florestan]

lifelong depression at not being able to get what you want

And just what is it that you want, Greg?

[SimonNZ]

Since before going to a doctor you really need to have your shit together before you waste your time and money. It may even be years of questioning and discussion before then.

No. You'll be seeing your GP at some point in the near future for something and you can add these questions to that meeting. And you'll get more helpful advice than anyone on a chat board can give you, and without further years flailing around for answers.

[71 dB]

Most people feel awkward in social situations. Most people feel anxiety at work.

Of course all people feel anxiety in certain situations. The difference is despite of feeling awkward "normies" have better social skills to deal with the anxiety inducing social situations. In fact, I might even feel less ankward than normies, because my expectations for myself are near zero in social situations while a "normie" may worry a lot about not giving a perfect impression of himself/herself. What matter here is that when people are dealing with me, they feel like communicating with a robot without empathy while normies feel human with empathy. It is the facial expressions, eye contact etc. I never knew this before getting into this stuff, because I didn't know how people see me, but now I know and it explains so much!

Social skills are just one aspect autistic people differ from normies. High functioning autistic people, especially women can be good at masking and appear normies to other people, but with the price of getting burnout for all the "acting." Of course for low functioning autistic people social situations are extremely difficult and lead easily to tantrums.

It's "neurotypical", if we must use that term.

If this is all you've got then what might really crush you is to learn that you're just another "normie", to use an even worse term.

I lived 40 years assuming I am "an introverted normie." If you are right, I was right for 40 years, but I kept wondering why my life has been what it has been. having a life "introverted normies" typically have seemed so impossible for me. Only when I started thinking myself of someone with Asperger's/high functioning autism did I understand pretty much everything! Is it only coincidence a wrong diagnose has such a power to explain my life? If you had lived your life in my boots you would understand why I believe so strongly I am a mildly autistic individual. If I don't get to call myself someone with Asperger's, I don't know who does. I wasn't even the one who came up with this Asperger's diagnosis (because I didn't know about it or much about autism either). It was my sister who thought I have it.

Even if I am completely wrong in my self-diagnose, educating myself about personality types, neurotypes and autism has made me understand different people MUCH better than before. This has been a very beneficial experience either way. I wish I had known about these things when I was much younger.

According to the internet, about 1 in 40 males are autistic. Some of us has to have it, right? Looks like I am one. Is that so hard to believe?

[greg]

And just what is it that you want, Greg?

The fantasy world is one thing... but even if I could get over that and be realistic.

-Enough time to work on my music
-Enough time to keep studying Japanese
-Enough time to gain new skills that I might want, to work on whatever inspiring project I think of
-Enough time to keep playing video games
-Secure, quiet space to keep doing that, undisturbed

-(ability to lucid dream skillfully so that I can live in a world where I have a sense of complete freedom and god-like power)


NOT:
-constant survival mode working, wasting my life away
-pressure to perform, to impress people (I don't care about that)
-obligation to talk to people all day
-obligation to interact with the world all day
-being in the same dull place, doing the same dull thing, feeling crippling emptiness all the time
-complete sense of meaninglessness


Everyone has to put up with the bad, but for me too much of it causes very severe depression.

One thing that has helped (though often very hard to duplicate) is to make projects- do ONE THING in your free time, from beginning to end. Marking it off of the bucket list. Push EVERYTHING else out of mind, none of it is important. Just make that ONE thing the temporary reason of your entire existence and follow through with it. That's what keeps the bad thoughts away.

No. You'll be seeing your GP at some point in the near future for something and you can add these questions to that meeting. And you'll get more helpful advice than anyone on a chat board can give you, and without further years flailing around for answers.

I will probably eventually check it out once I get some life/job stability going again, and health insurance.

(unrelated note- I don't quite experience the social difficulties as intensely as Poju, btw).

It's just, what tends to work for me seems to be very much personal and outside the scope of what is well-known. So it's just a matter of spending a lot of time thinking and trying things in order to maintain sanity. I did go to therapy one time, it wasn't helpful. It's very hard to have any faith that anyone could provide any guidance at all, though I suppose maybe it's better to try to have some faith for once.

[greg]

Even if I am completely wrong in my self-diagnose, educating myself about personality types, neurotypes and autism has made me understand different people MUCH better than before. This has been a very beneficial experience either way. I wish I had known about these things when I was much younger.

Yep! This is the fun part.

[greg]

this is giving me more thoughts, but I'll try to be brief.



In 1st grade, when we were supposed to participate for story time reading, I would put my head down and wish I were at home instead. All it did was cause an awkward scene with the teacher and class.

I had no social anxiety, nothing in particular bothered me, I just didn't want to participate at all. Just the thought of having to be involved was brutally depressing. I didn't ask for this. I read better than the other students, but didn't care about that.

I haven't changed since then, I've only pretended to be more normal, and it's exhausting.

(countless time getting the "you look like you don't want to be here" comment from customers at my retail job from years ago)

Extrapolate that characteristic on a bigger scale...

[71 dB]

Yep! This is the fun part.

Well, I don't find it fun. Interesting and beneficial yes, but not that fun. 

this is giving me more thoughts, but I'll try to be brief.

In 1st grade, when we were supposed to participate for story time reading, I would put my head down and wish I were at home instead. All it did was cause an awkward scene with the teacher and class.

I had no social anxiety, nothing in particular bothered me, I just didn't want to participate at all. Just the thought of having to be involved was brutally depressing. I didn't ask for this. I read better than the other students, but didn't care about that.

I haven't changed since then, I've only pretended to be more normal, and it's exhausting.

(countless time getting the "you look like you don't want to be here" comment from customers at my retail job from years ago)

Extrapolate that characteristic on a bigger scale...

I don't know what story time reading is and why you found it so horrible. In school I felt different and "alien." The things others talked about felt strange to me except for a few topics: Star Wars was one of the only things that ever made me feel like others. There were also some popular toys/games/candies/tv shows etc. but other than that I felt different.

Most people don't want to be in their jobs.

The thing is, I didn't suffer so much from what I am until adulthood. Children are allowed to be a little strange. More important is children behave and do what they are told. I was that kind of kid. Teachers didn't have much trouble with me. My real problems started to emerge after high-school. The problems cumulated. I am pretty sure "normies" have better changes to go forward in life.

[greg]

I thought of a better summary of what I want, in as few words as possible:
-to be left alone so that I can dream of something better than than this reality.

The thing is, I didn't suffer so much from what I am until adulthood.

Same for me.
A big reason could be that jobs have much much less freedom than school does, because money is directly involved.
(But if you mean socially... ehhh can't relate)

[steve ridgway]

I thought of a better summary of what I want, in as few words as possible:
-to be left alone so that I can dream of something better than than this reality.

I like this, enjoy a lot of dreams myself .

[greg]

I like this, enjoy a lot of dreams myself .

do you ever lucid dream?