Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Leo K.]

The only cycle of his that I have is the one he made for VOX. While far from perfect, there are many wonderful moments in it and I prefer it to what I've heard of his other two cycles.

I am going to have to listen to his VOX set real soon.

[prémont]

The only cycle of his that I have is the one he made for VOX. While far from perfect, there are many wonderful moments in it and I prefer it to what I've heard of his other two cycles.

I also prefer his first integral, but I may be a bit biased because my first encounter with many of the LvB piano sonatas was a series of four LvB recitals with Brendel in Copenhagen at the time of his first integral.

[George]

Other than this CD, I am no fan of Brendel's Beethoven. 

[Skogwald]

Moravec is my guy in this repertoire. And Schnabel.

[George]

Moravec is my guy in this repertoire. And Schnabel.

If only Moravec recorded More Beethoven.

[Skogwald]

If only Moravec recorded More Beethoven.

Exactly. Everything he did was perfect, why don't we have the complete sonatas 

[Mookalafalas]

Apparently Belucci finished his cycle at some point...

[JBS]

Apparently Belucci finished his cycle at some point...

But is it worth listening to?
US release date btw is 12 September.

[George]

And are we sure that isn't Daniel Day-Lewis? 

[JBS]

And are we sure that isn't Daniel Day-Lewis? 

As long as it's not Giovanni Belushi.

[Leo K.]

I have slowly but surely going through Todd's choices for top and second tiers. Wow these are some great recordings and resonate with what I look for.  The Mejoueva cycle is amazing (so is her Mozart). There are a few I would rate higher, like the Schiff ECM and the two Brendel Phillips sets.

For some reason Kempff's two cycles eludes me. I can't get a handle on what makes his recordings special.

[prémont]

I have slowly but surely going through Todd's choices for top and second tiers. Wow these are some great recordings and resonate with what I look for.  The Mejoueva cycle is amazing (so is her Mozart). There are a few I would rate higher, like the Schiff ECM and the two Brendel Phillips sets.

For some reason Kempff's two cycles eludes me. I can't get a handle on what makes his recordings special.

Quite an effort if you have heard all the sonatas mentioned.

I am still working on my long-term project of listening to all the LvB sonata recordings I have.

I often feel that Todd's ranking is overly subjective. My own evaluation of the various recordings is equally subjective. For instance, I dismissed Schiff's recording long ago, as I find it both bland and contrived.

[Florestan]

Quite an effort if you have heard all the sonatas mentioned.

I am still working on my long-term project of listening to all the LvB sonata recordings I have.

I often feel that Todd's ranking is overly subjective. My own evaluation of the various recordings is equally subjective. For instance, I dismissed Schiff's recording long ago, as I find it both bland and contrived.

There is no escape from subjectivity in reviews.

[AnotherSpin]

Quite an effort if you have heard all the sonatas mentioned.

I am still working on my long-term project of listening to all the LvB sonata recordings I have.

I often feel that Todd's ranking is overly subjective. My own evaluation of the various recordings is equally subjective. For instance, I dismissed Schiff's recording long ago, as I find it both bland and contrived.

When I made attempts to listen to Schiff's cycle on ECM, I was, on the whole, left indifferent. That was several years ago, and it's hard to imagine how I might hear his performances if I were to listen again. We are not only subjective, but endlessly changeable in our judgments. And to what extent those judgments are truly ours remains open to debate.

[Spotted Horses]

I often feel that Todd's ranking is overly subjective. My own evaluation of the various recordings is equally subjective. For instance, I dismissed Schiff's recording long ago, as I find it both bland and contrived.

I find the idea of rankings in this context to
Be absurd and worse than useless. What is useful is a characterization (which will always have some subjective characteristics component) which will give a hint of whether I would find it attractive. Is the performance fast and breathless, slow and ponderous, mercurial, aristocratic, wild, graceful, indulgent, respect? The tiers and rankings tell me nothing.

[Florestan]

mercurial, aristocratic, wild, graceful, indulgent

You do realize that these terms are highly subjective in themselves, right? 

[ultralinear]

Todd's rankings are entirely subjective.  What the various tiers tell you is how close or far a particular performance is from Todd's concept of the ideal performance.  Some are very close, some not so close, some in the middle distance, some nowhere near.  That two performances are both ranked in the same tier does not mean that they sound similar, only that they are situated at similar distances from the ideal, possibly in different directions.

The obvious problem with this ranking system is that only Todd knows what his ideal would sound like, making it pretty meaningless for anyone else.  And to be fair, IIRC Todd freely admits to this.  A more fundamental problem for me is the whole idea that there is a single perfect way to perform a piece of music, from which any departure represents an imperfection.  One of most enjoyable aspects of music is hearing what different performers make of it.

[Leo K.]

Good thoughts everyone! I agree on the subjective nature or rankings for a list, but it is helpful for me to find a decent place to start listening. Another factor for me is sound quality, which is one of the reasons I love the Schiff ECM. (Also, I haven't heard every single sonata through all these cycles. I skip around at leisure.)

[Spotted Horses]

You do realize that these terms are highly subjective in themselves, right? 

As I mentioned they are partially subjective, but can have an objective component. Can you find someone who would characterize Arrau's Beethoven as mercurial, or HJ Lim's Beethoven as aristocratic?

[prémont]

The obvious problem with this ranking system is that only Todd knows what his ideal would sound like, making it pretty meaningless for anyone else.  And to be fair, IIRC Todd freely admits to this.  A more fundamental problem for me is the whole idea that there is a single perfect way to perform a piece of music, from which any departure represents an imperfection.  One of most enjoyable aspects of music is hearing what different performers make of it.

Of course there is no single ideal performance. If you look at Todd's ranking you will find among his top ten very different interpretations:

The Top Ten – in order, as determined by Science!

Minsoo Sohn
Andrea Lucchesini
Annie Fischer
Daniel-Ben Pienaar
Irina Mejoueva (Bijin)
Artur Schnabel
Russell Sherman
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Yu Kosuge
Eric Heidsieck

For instance, Kempff's performance is very far in conception from Annie Fischer's which is very far from Pienaar's reading. They have as well as no common denominator. So which of these would be supposed to be the closest to Todd's unknown ideal performance?