Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Todd]

Thanks!  I am guessing that the Kempff stereo cycle I have is slower, overall, than the mono set?

The two cycles are pretty close in terms of tempo.

Oh, and out of the ones you mentioned Todd, who differs greater in their approach to Kempff?

They're all distinctive, but for maximum contrast either Gilels or Kuerti.  Gilels is much better.

[Bogey]

Thank you, again.

[Mandryka]

Rosen's first 106 clocks in at 10.41, but his second at 9.47.  It's a complete rethinking on his part (as if he decided to practice what he preaches).
Say what you like about Korstick, but he sounds very fast and very much in control.  He's some finger-athlete.  Ditto Goodyear.

Well I got hold of the last Rosen and I thought it was fun to hear the first movement played in such an abrupt and disjointed way. Restless, unsettled. Rosen can say what he likes, both Yudina and Richter-Haaser (and even Kempff)  make the allegro sound both majestic and expressive and they don't sap it of  energy, though their energy is more heroic than Rosen's in that 1997 recording.  I also listened to Korstick -- whether he's got chops or not, the interpretation sounded rushed  to me, I didn't hear anything interesting or enjoyable. I'm listening to Goodyear now. I prefer what I hear from Taub to either Goodyear or Korstick, even though I can do without all three of them.  I agree that what Rosen did is interesting (as is Taub.)

Here's a knocking review of the Rosen Hammerklavier by Richard Taruskin

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/16/arts/classical-briefs-111236.html

At the other extreme of the spectrum, I believe medici TV are about to release a video of Sokolov playing it in 2013.

[Pat B]

This is the second Rosen Hammerklavier (although I saw a suggestion somewhere that he may have recorded three - though I've never got to the bottom of that).  Shows there was absolutely nothing wrong with his technique.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas-Charles-Rosen/dp/B000000FT4/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1393730632&sr=1-6&keywords=rosen+beethoven

According to this Library of Congress discography, that 1997 MusicMasters CD is actually a reissue of a 1965 Epic disc. That would make it earlier than his Late Sonatas set, reissued on Sony Essential Classics, which was recorded 1968-1970.

There are copies of the Epic disc on ebay, and a UK issue is marked 1965, so we know for sure that is his first recording, and the Essential Classics is his second. I cannot confirm, though, that the MusicMasters is the same as the 1965.

Disclosure: I have only heard the one on Essential Classics.

[Mandryka]

According to this Library of Congress discography, that 1997 MusicMasters CD is actually a reissue of a 1965 Epic disc. That would make it earlier than his Late Sonatas set, reissued on Sony Essential Classics, which was recorded 1968-1970.

There are copies of the Epic disc on ebay, and a UK issue is marked 1965, so we know for sure that is his first recording, and the Essential Classics is his second. I cannot confirm, though, that the MusicMasters is the same as the 1965.

Disclosure: I have only heard the one on Essential Classics.

The 1996 recording was included in the second edition of The Classical Style, that's what I've been listening to. Maybe the Music Masters CD has the Epic Recording.

I just played the allegro again, it is well worth hearing. On symphonyshare.

Strange how Rosen turns out to be a pianist who I like a lot, in Debussy Etudes, Bartok Etudes, Davidsbundlertanzer , the Diabellies, and now here in this first movement of op 106. I have some Haydn by him somewhere which I must listen to some time. 

[Pat B]

And the sound on the Brilliant (Richter) set is not that bad, compared to other concerts of the same period.

I have re-listened to some of it, and the sound is better than I remembered. Op. 111, from 1975, is a great performance in quite good sound. I didn't re-listen to op. 2#3 and op. 7, but they are from the same day. The other 6 sonatas are from 1965 and 1972; their sound is not up to the standards of contemporaneous studio recordings, but is decent.

I have the current iteration, a 3-CD set that omits the Liszt and Schubert from the older 5-CD set, but adds a 1952 recording of Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto. At current prices ($13 new and shipped in the USA) it's very recommendable.

[jlaurson]

Sure, but early Backhaus is 1908-1928 or so. The mono set is 1950-1954. The stereo from 1958-1969.

If we divide his career into 3 20 year periods, it looks like this. (note that both sets fall in the late period, though the mono is earlier and IMO a bit better.)

Early - 1908-1928
Mid -   1928-1948
Late -  1949-1969

Very true, of course. Thought about that, too... but was lazy and went for "early" when "earlier" is more correct. I have some early-mid recordings (Chopin Etudes, methinks)... and that's different yet again. Buchbinder mentioned that Backhaus was deeply unhappy with the fact that he would, later in his career only be asked to do the Germanic stuff, Brahms Concertos and Beethoven Sonatas up and down... when he should have liked to offer a much more diverse program. Buchbinder mentioned particularly his Debussy.

[Que]

Does anyone know whether this Italian issue contains the mono or stereo recordings?



It says "℗ 1953-1969" on the back, which is confusing..

Q

[jlaurson]

Does anyone know whether this Italian issue contains the mono or stereo recordings?



It says "℗ 1953-1969" on the back, which is confusing..

Q

Stereo. With the standard mono inclusions of that set that he didn't get to finish in time.

[Bogey]

Stereo. With the standard mono inclusions of that set that he didn't get to finish in time.

Anyone else noteworthy do a hybrid?

[Ken B]

Anyone else noteworthy do a hybrid?

The Katchen Brahms set has some mono to fill in gaps.

[Que]

Stereo. With the standard mono inclusions of that set that he didn't get to finish in time.

Thanks!

Q

[jlaurson]

Anyone else noteworthy do a hybrid?

Arrau III fills the gaps with earlier versions, I think... and throws in a very early Diabelli Variations. See also: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/06/beethoven-sonatas-survey-of-complete.html

[aquablob]

Arrau III fills the gaps with earlier versions, I think... and throws in a very early Diabelli Variations. See also: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/06/beethoven-sonatas-survey-of-complete.html

Yes, except, as I established here rather dogmatically several months back, the cycle from the '80s is really Arrau II. 

Oh, there's a typo on your site: "27/1" should be "27/2" (http://arrauhouse.org/content/disc_beethoven_solo2.htm)

[Todd]

Anyone else noteworthy do a hybrid?

If by hybrid you mean mono and stereo, then:

[jlaurson]

Yes, except, as I established here rather dogmatically several months back, the cycle from the '80s is really Arrau II. 

Oh, there's a typo on your site: "27/1" should be "27/2" (http://arrauhouse.org/content/disc_beethoven_solo2.htm)

I missed that part. But then at least I have it right by still referring to it as "Arrau II" on the Sonata Survey site.

Thanks for catching the 27/1/2 mistake! I rely on eagle eyes like that!!

[Pat B]

Yes, except, as I established here rather dogmatically several months back, the cycle from the '80s is really Arrau II. 

Using ordinal numbers in this context is a peeve of mine. Why not say "Arrau 1980s" or "Arrau digital?"

[Ken B]

Using ordinal numbers in this context is a peeve of mine. Why not say "Arrau 1980s" or "Arrau digital?"

Is this pet peeve I or pet peeve II?

[aquablob]

Using ordinal numbers in this context is a peeve of mine. Why not say "Arrau 1980s" or "Arrau digital?"

Stop making sense.

[Fred]

MANDRYKA - Thank you for taking me back to Taub. I have previously complained about the sound because I started with 111 (as usual) and the sound gave me ear-ache.  However, I went and listened to the hammerklavier and found the sound very acceptable.  Go figure.  Anyway, superb rendition. Will definitely listen to more Taub (and wonder why he doesn't have a bigger career - if he wanted one, of course).
P.S.  I got my copy of his complete set via the Schirmer Performance Edition (vols 1 and 2) at Amazon and it cost almost nothing.