Opera

[Michel]

I post this here for reasons that will soon become obvious; for, I wish to ask the question to those who don't typically listen to opera (and therefore would not frequent the opera board here) why they do not?

To me, much of the brilliance I find in classical music I find it in opera and, more than collecting recordings, pursuing and hearing different singers is a great experience. Moreover, opera to me often seems to have more "point" and life. When I hear people singing I hear them, when I hear a violin, I hear the violin. This may be a personal problem, but I do like it when singers sing their heart out; it is very satisfying and emotive, and fun! Perhaps I appreciate the performance also, as I do also love to watch it live, unlike general music.

So tell me, why do you not like or listen to much opera? What about it bothers you?

[Haffner]

Opera might have been superceded by the Motion Picture culture. People might feel that people "singing" their woes, joys, etc. as being "less realistic". Today's motion picture industry could be seen as the "Gesamtkunstwerk" (whole art work), which Wagner worked toward and Nietzsche disparaged of.

In Nietzsche's case, he saw the European people's fascination with art such as Wagner's as being indicative of a hate of using one's imagination. One could see the Western preoccupation with reality t.v. and the ilk ("escapist entertainment") as being a sign of the deliberate lack of imagination of and morbid obsession with "other worlds" which the escapist uses in his or her quest away from religion.

[Michel]

Opera might have been superceded by the Motion Picture culture. People might feel that people "singing" their woes, joys, etc. as being "less realistic". Today's motion picture industry could be seen as the "Gesamtkunstwerk" (whole art work), which Wagner worked toward and Nietzsche disparaged of.

In Nietzsche's case, he saw the European people's fascination with art such as Wagner's as being indicative of a hate of using one's imagination. One could see the Western preoccupation with reality t.v. and the ilk ("escapist entertainment") as being a sign of the deliberate lack of imagination of and morbid obsession with "other worlds" which the escapist uses in his or her quest away from religion.

Interesting point except for the dross about religion at the end.

Though my question was not to the public at large, but instead specifically to classical music fanatics who don't bother with opera.

[Haffner]

Interesting point except for the dross about religion at the end.

Though my question was not to the public at large, but instead specifically to classical music fanatics who don't bother with opera.

I didn't mean what I wrote to be "dross". I am sorry that you took it that way.

Religion, for me, involves one's relationship to, with, for, and of Love.

I understand this might not interest you, so please forgive my definition if it offends you.

Best Regards, Michel

[Mark]

Opera is a vast field, a whole sub-genre of classical music. I'm still very much enjoying the other vast fields (instrumental, choral, etc), and thus too busy with these to devote much time to opera right now. But, my tastes will change, I'm sure.

[Michel]

I didn't mean what I wrote to be "dross". I am sorry that you took it that way.

Religion, for me, involves one's relationship to, with, for, and of Love.

I understand this might not interest you, so please forgive my definition if it offends you.

Best Regards, Michel

Just stop using every excuse to expouse Christian bollox please.

[Haffner]

Just stop using every excuse to expouse Christian bollox please.

I'm sorry, both for making my posts seem that way, and for having offended you in general.

[dtwilbanks]

I don't listen to much opera. The main reason is I'd have to invest more time and effort, I suppose. (Operas are long, you have to read along with the libretto if you don't understand the language, etc.)

Instrumental music, you slap it on and go...

[karlhenning]

Just stop using every excuse to expouse Christian bollox please.

Would you consider to stop using every excuse to dismiss religion with crudity, please, Michel?

[Kullervo]

I think my long-standing (until recently) aversion to opera had to do with the fact that I felt like I was only hearing something I was supposed to be hearing and seeing, but opera DVDs have remedied this. As for opera recordings, I've learned to just use my imagination and create the images in my head. Listening to opera seems like more of an "event" than listening to a symphony or concerto for me, since it calls for so much involvement from the listener/viewer — so much involvement (for me) that two or three hours pass by in what seems to be no time at all.

[karlhenning]

I think my long-standing (until recently) aversion to opera had to do with the fact that I felt like I was only hearing something I was supposed to be hearing and seeing, but opera DVDs have remedied this.

A very good point.

OTOH, given the condition and character of some stagings, a listen-only experience is at times an improvement 

[Kullervo]

OTOH, given the condition and character of some stagings, a listen-only experience is at times an improvement 

After seeing the Negro in Lulu played by a white man in "street" clothing, I'm inclined to agree.

[Michel]

Would you consider to stop using every excuse to dismiss religion with crudity, please, Michel?

You can't dismiss something that is patently a load of sh*t in the first place, though. And I don't go about posting offensive things for the sake of it, I only do so when the level of bollox reaches nauseating levels that something must be done.

[Haffner]

You can't dismiss something that is patently a load of sh*t in the first place, though. And I don't go about posting offensive things for the sake of it, I only do so when the level of bollox reaches nauseating levels that something must be done.

And then you would consider it fair.

[Novi]

I'm only familiar with a small repertoire, but I enjoy what I do have. I listen to other genres more (solo instrumental, chamber, orchestral) but for a mundane reason: except for say, Bluebeard's or Oedipus Rex, the length means I have to set aside two or three hours (and that's assuming it's not a Wagnerian binge ) to sit there with a libretto. I suppose I could split up my listening into acts, but I feel I lose narrative momentum and structure that way. Recently, I bought Jacobs's L'Orfeo on DVD  (thanks for the recommendation, Tancata ) which I really enjoyed so I'm pretty keen to get some more. Thinking of Wozzeck and perhaps some Strauss.

Opera might have been superceded by the Motion Picture culture. People might feel that people "singing" their woes, joys, etc. as being "less realistic". Today's motion picture industry could be seen as the "Gesamtkunstwerk" (whole art work), which Wagner worked toward and Nietzsche disparaged of.

In Nietzsche's case, he saw the European people's fascination with art such as Wagner's as being indicative of a hate of using one's imagination. One could see the Western preoccupation with reality t.v. and the ilk ("escapist entertainment") as being a sign of the deliberate lack of imagination of and morbid obsession with "other worlds" which the escapist uses in his or her quest away from religion.

Haffner, I agree with what you're saying about the film industry to the extent that I think this was happening in its nascent stages in the early 20th century. These days, opera doesn't even get a look in in popular culture. But for classial music listeners who tend to avoid opera, I don't think it's a matter of one form superseding the other.

Reality tv is a funny kind of escapism, isn't it? A sort of fantasy masquerading as the quotidian. The banality of fame perhaps? (apologies to Ms Arendt )