Dmitri's Dacha

[Herman]

Of the three symphony sets: Slava, Barshai & Petrenko, honestly I prefer Petrenko.

as noted I like Petrenko's nr 10. His nr 14 is, to my mind, not entirely satisfying, in that there is no real compulsion (in me) to listen to the entire piece from start to finish. There is no dramatic build-up. I do get to hear details that were inaudible in other recordings, but that's not the point.
There are a lot of good things. The soprano can muster a sort of cabaret-ish delivery at times, which is in the music. After all, nr. 14 (to borrow a Seinfeld phrase) is a show about the big nothing. It's of the same lineage as Pierrot Lunaire.
I think the problem is it's a studio recording.

[Madiel]

Just put "Malaguena" on repeat and you'll be fine...

[Karl Henning]

as noted I like Petrenko's nr 10. His nr 14 is, to my mind, not entirely satisfying, in that there is no real compulsion (in me) to listen to the entire piece from start to finish. There is no dramatic build-up. I do get to hear details that were inaudible in other recordings, but that's not the point.
There are a lot of good things. The soprano can muster a sort of cabaret-ish delivery at times, which is in the music. After all, nr. 14 (to borrow a Seinfeld phrase) is a show about the big nothing. It's of the same lineage as Pierrot Lunaire.
I think the problem is it's a studio recording.

Interesting. Thanks, Herman ... tangentially, I've been meaning to listen to the Fourteenth with Kremerata Baltica.

[Madiel]

Has anyone ever heard the Poem of the Motherland, op.74?

Apparently there's just one recording from around 1950 or even slightly earlier. Which did whacked on an obscure CD at some point. I can't find an online source.

[vandermolen]

Saying Symphony 12 is "awful" is such a given amongst music connoisseurs.  Why quaff on a rustic red when you could be drinking Lafitte '58 (or whatever!) all the time.  DSCH more than just about any other composer I know was a bellweather for the time/place the music was written.  For sure its easy to musically analyse this or that work and declare it "better" than another.  But that is to miss the point of DSCH - his music does not exist in some abstracted non-subjective vacuum.  Some is the private DSCH some is the more public face - but they are sides of the same coin and thereby of interest at least.   We admire Soviet Agitprop art for what it is - why not music too?

I rather like the 12th Symphony. It's association with Eisenstin's film 'October' interest me as it was later used as accompanying music. I know that it's not one of his greatest symphonies but I still find it enjoyable for both musical, cinematic and historical reasons.

[Mirror Image]

I rather like the 12th Symphony. It's association with Eisenstin's film 'October' interest me as it was later used as accompanying music. I know that it's not one of his greatest symphonies but I still find it enjoyable for both musical, cinematic and historical reasons.

I have always found the 12th symphony a difficult pill to swallow. It's got loads of bombast and propulsion, but I find the musical material weak and not one of his more inspired moments. I can certainly understand the criticism. A symphony that has really got under my skin the last time I was listening to Shostakovich pretty regularly was his 9th symphony, especially the Rozhdestvensky performance. It seems there's more emotional depth to this symphony than I initially realized, especially the Largo movement.

[vandermolen]

I have always found the 12th symphony a difficult pill to swallow. It's got loads of bombast and propulsion, but I find the musical material weak and not one of his more inspired moments. I can certainly understand the criticism. A symphony that has really got under my skin the last time I was listening to Shostakovich pretty regularly was his 9th symphony, especially the Rozhdestvensky performance. It seems there's more emotional depth to this symphony than I initially realized, especially the Largo movement.

I don't disagree with your analysis John it's just that 'The Year 1917' has an odd appeal to me.

[Karl Henning]

Saying Symphony 12 is "awful" is such a given amongst music connoisseurs.

The least of his 15 symphonies, probably.  "Awful?" Only in the ears of those who feel it is, for them.

[staxomega]

I have always found the 12th symphony a difficult pill to swallow. It's got loads of bombast and propulsion, but I find the musical material weak and not one of his more inspired moments. I can certainly understand the criticism. A symphony that has really got under my skin the last time I was listening to Shostakovich pretty regularly was his 9th symphony, especially the Rozhdestvensky performance. It seems there's more emotional depth to this symphony than I initially realized, especially the Largo movement.

That is really interesting, it was Rozhdestvensky that convinced me about the 9th as well.

[Mirror Image]

That is really interesting, it was Rozhdestvensky that convinced me about the 9th as well.

Rozhdestvensky certainly convinced of the merits of the work. It is 'lighter' Shostakovich, but there's still some lingering darker moments and Rozhdestvensky has brought this to the fore more than any other performance I've heard.

[vers la flamme]

I love Shosty's 9th, but haven't heard the Rozhdestvensky recording, only Bernstein/NYPO, which is great, but I think he emphasizes more of the wit and Haydnesque side of the music than any deep pathos (which is definitely also there, especially in the inner movements). I'll try and find this Rozhdestvensky recording and give it a listen sometime.

I just ordered this:

[asin]B011A8X3B8[/asin]

... which will be my first and only Shostakovich symphony cycle. Very excited to spend time with these symphonies over the winter months...

... meanwhile... I have been listening to string quartets 1 through 4 a lot, all brilliant, especially 2 and 3.

[Roasted Swan]

I love Shosty's 9th, but haven't heard the Rozhdestvensky recording, only Bernstein/NYPO, which is great, but I think he emphasizes more of the wit and Haydnesque side of the music than any deep pathos (which is definitely also there, especially in the inner movements). I'll try and find this Rozhdestvensky recording and give it a listen sometime.

I just ordered this:

[asin]B011A8X3B8[/asin]

... which will be my first and only Shostakovich symphony cycle. Very excited to spend time with these symphonies over the winter months...

... meanwhile... I have been listening to string quartets 1 through 4 a lot, all brilliant, especially 2 and 3.

Probably throwing a whole cacophony of cats in amongst the pigeons but while you are enjoying the music can I suggest a couple of background books too......  I am NOT suggesting these are the last word/authoritative biographies or studies but I have enjoyed all these and felt they added to my understanding and appreciation of DSCH;



yes yes yes - whether it is "true" or not I found this opened up the world of DSCH to me.....



a kind-of "novel"  but so compelling and powerful..... and terrifying



just a good read.... and lastly....



a testament to the human spirit....     But of course as ever - just enjoy the music!

[Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich]

I listened to the endings of Shostakovich 11 - Nelsons and Petrenko can not replace good old Haitink/Concertgebouw for me.
They are speeding up the ending so massively, I don't like it. Nelsons does some tempo variations I do not like. Or I'm not used to. The slowness of mvmt 4 start omg.

[Karl Henning]

I love Shosty's 9th, but haven't heard the Rozhdestvensky recording, only Bernstein/NYPO, which is great, but I think he emphasizes more of the wit and Haydnesque side of the music than any deep pathos (which is definitely also there, especially in the inner movements). I'll try and find this Rozhdestvensky recording and give it a listen sometime.

I just ordered this:



... which will be my first and only Shostakovich symphony cycle. Very excited to spend time with these symphonies over the winter months...

... meanwhile... I have been listening to string quartets 1 through 4 a lot, all brilliant, especially 2 and 3.

There is much that is very good to excellent in the Petrenko cycle, and I would not suggest that you need another.

That said, our Herman has expressed some reservations about Petrenko's Fourteenth. So, may I suggest, as one who early on came to love the Fourteenth, that you add as a supplement the ECM disc of Kremerata Baltica performing both the Shostakovich Fourteenth, and an exquisite string arrangement of the Adagio from the Mahler Tenth?

[Roasted Swan]

I listened to the endings of Shostakovich 11 - Nelsons and Petrenko can not replace good old Haitink/Concertgebouw for me.
They are speeding up the ending so massively, I don't like it. Nelsons does some tempo variations I do not like. Or I'm not used to. The slowness of mvmt 4 start omg.

I still find the ending of Kondrashin's No.11 suitably apocalyptic!  And the nagging question of whether to leave the bells ringing on or not.... I rather like it left... wind blowing through the rubble and other subjective nonsense that appeals to me.  Whether to use standard orchestral tubular bells or big resonant bell bells.  A small detail but one with a big visceral impact I find.

[Madiel]

There is much that is very good to excellent in the Petrenko cycle, and I would not suggest that you need another.

That said, our Herman has expressed some reservations about Petrenko's Fourteenth. So, may I suggest, as one who early on came to love the Fourteenth, that you add as a supplement the ECM disc of Kremerata Baltica performing both the Shostakovich Fourteenth, and an exquisite string arrangement of the Adagio from the Mahler Tenth?

Reviewers considered the 14th one of Petrenko's best.

So maybe one person's reservations are not an immediate reason for another purchase before even listening for oneself.

[Karl Henning]

Reviewers considered the 14th one of Petrenko's best.

So maybe one person's reservations are not an immediate reason for another purchase before even listening for oneself.

Fair enough!

[vers la flamme]

There is much that is very good to excellent in the Petrenko cycle, and I would not suggest that you need another.

That said, our Herman has expressed some reservations about Petrenko's Fourteenth. So, may I suggest, as one who early on came to love the Fourteenth, that you add as a supplement the ECM disc of Kremerata Baltica performing both the Shostakovich Fourteenth, and an exquisite string arrangement of the Adagio from the Mahler Tenth?

Noted, that sounds great! I will probably try and listen through the entire Petrenko set before supplementing with further recordings, but I will look into that, the Mahler sounds like a great complement.

I listened to the E minor Piano Trio, op.67 a little earlier. A damn fine, elegiac work. I never noticed this before, but it at times almost reminds me of Mahler's first symphony, with its juxtaposition of folksy quasi-Jewish themes with more funereal motifs and atmospheres. Probably one of Shostakovich's darker works, no?

And I got yet another new Shostakovich CD today, Maxim Vengerov playing the 2nd violin concerto (coupled with the 2nd VC of Prokofiev; I am very excited to hear both!), Rostropovich conducting.

[vandermolen]

I still find the ending of Kondrashin's No.11 suitably apocalyptic!  And the nagging question of whether to leave the bells ringing on or not.... I rather like it left... wind blowing through the rubble and other subjective nonsense that appeals to me.  Whether to use standard orchestral tubular bells or big resonant bell bells.  A small detail but one with a big visceral impact I find.

Kondrashin's recording is probably my favourite. I first came across it on a Soviet LP picked up at an exhibition about the USSR in Earl's Court, where I lived in my youth. I saw this work live at the Proms a couple of years ago (Jurowski I think) where he used big resonant bells at the end. It made a terrific impact. Like No.4 this is a great one to experience live.

[Roasted Swan]

Kondrashin's recording is probably my favourite. I first came across it on a Soviet LP picked up at an exhibition about the USSR in Earl's Court, where I lived in my youth. I saw this work live at the Proms a couple of years ago (Jurowski I think) where he used big resonant bells at the end. It made a terrific impact. Like No.4 this is a great one to experience live.

Apparently the National Youth Orchestra are performing No.11 in concert even as I write.  This is a heads up via MusicWeb:

"A number of us attended a tremendous and rather surprising concert on Saturday.    I have learned from John Quinn that this will be broadcast from the Barbican on BBC Radio 3 on Jan 13th.  The orchestra was the  National Youth Orchestra with the conductor Jaime Martín. It was a massive orchestra: 12 basses, what seemed like dozens of horns but the massed strings were delightful. It started with  Eisler Auf den Strassen zu singen. This song was written for factory workers to sing. This was sung by the members of the orchestra in Russian. You can imagine at their audition they would be asked to play the violin or whatever and then 'We would also like you sing – in Russian'!

The concert continued with the Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem and the Shostakovich 11th symphony. This symphony incorporates a number of revolutionary songs but I had not realized Shostakovich had incorporated these almost note for note. It opens with Listen Listen so orchestra sang that first and then started the symphony. They sang two others between movements and the one more as an encore. Altogether an enterprising concert but very poorly attended. This was the first of three performances and most of the audience seemed to be parents.

As always it was superbly performed and the broadcast will be a rare chance to hear songs in context."

I think I'll try and catch this concert/broadcast for sure - sounds like a fantastic programme