Author Topic: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)  (Read 187926 times)

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DarkAngel

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #280 on: December 14, 2009, 09:38:23 AM »
Please enlighten me what you like about the Harnoncourt/RCO performances :-\ In general I like him very much as a conductor and have lots of works from the Baroque period that I love, but his Mozart completely eludes me.

I have two discs (35&36 and 40&41) and find them the most perverse readings I've ever heard, and it's not a pleasant experience for me to listen to them ???. It's hard to describe what bothers me exactly, but somehow the performances do not "flow", Harnoncourt insists on micro-managing every accent and phrase, it all seems like the symphonies are stitched together from bits and pieces that very desperately want to express something but somehow fail to make a convincing hole. It all sounds very mannered, with exaggerated dynamics and some strange speeds. I feel Harnoncourt tries to be different from all other interpretations (like in his ridiculously slow Overture to Le Nozze di Figaro) just to make a point.

Sorry can't comment on the RCO symphony 41-25 series by Harnoncourt, only have the two early symphony sets seen above recorded in 1999-2000 with Concentus Musicus Wien which are done very nicely.

This is same team that did the Harnoncourt Haydn Paris symphony set in 2001-2002 which also turned out very nice..........




DarkAngel

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #281 on: December 14, 2009, 09:47:11 AM »
Ha! How well you understand that addictive streak, DA. However, in this case I have so much new Mozart to listen to that I can rest content with my Warner box ... for now..... My Sofronitzi box of Mozart fortepiano concertos arrived today, so add that to the Warner symphonies, the utterly delectable Mozart fortepiano sonatas box (which I can't stop listening to), and the Warner Mozart Sacred Music box, and that looks like an awful lot of Mozart to absorb before I start worrying about the little gaps!

Nice...........
A temporary victory lap can be taken to enjoy your spoils........but soon that nagging desire for more will return

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #282 on: December 14, 2009, 10:49:36 AM »
Please enlighten me what you like about the Harnoncourt/RCO performances :-\ In general I like him very much as a conductor and have lots of works from the Baroque period that I love, but his Mozart completely eludes me.

I have two discs (35&36 and 40&41) and find them the most perverse readings I've ever heard, and it's not a pleasant experience for me to listen to them ???. It's hard to describe what bothers me exactly, but somehow the performances do not "flow", Harnoncourt insists on micro-managing every accent and phrase, it all seems like the symphonies are stitched together from bits and pieces that very desperately want to express something but somehow fail to make a convincing whole. It all sounds very mannered, with exaggerated dynamics and some strange speeds. I feel Harnoncourt tries to be different from all other interpretations (like in his ridiculously slow Overture to Le Nozze di Figaro) just to make a point.

Despite the fact that Harnoncourt is one of my favorite conductors, your post hits it for me. It took me a long time to warm to him, precisely because the first disk of his that I got happened to be that incredibly bizarre Mozart Overtures disk. That Figaro overture made me gag on first hearing (and every one since. I tried). However, once I got past that, and his Mozart/Haydn works with modern orchestras, I did find a lot to like with Harnoncourt. If he tries to play Figaro again though, I'll hit him with a stick! >:(

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Offline Coopmv

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #283 on: December 14, 2009, 08:03:00 PM »
One can never predict how someone else will respond, but my box of Pinnock's Mozart symphonies just gathers dust. Period instruments they may be (and that's why I bought it in the first place), but I find the performances curiously lifeless - more like documentations than performances.

I bought the Warner box of Mozart symphonies recently, so I've been listening to Harnoncourt's recordings of the later symphonies, and have been pleasantly surprised to find them far more engaging, vital, and persuasive - period instruments or no.

I certainly have enjoyed the Hogwood's Mozart box set ...

Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #284 on: December 31, 2009, 02:11:05 AM »
Here's a brilliant recording by Andreas Stein and Christine Schornsheim from Harmonia Mundi of assorted preludes, sonatas, variations and other keyboard works by Mozart performed on a unique instrument that combines a 3 manual harpsichord at one end and a fortepiano with moderator stop at the other end.  The tonal variety for this instrument as played by these two virtuosos is stunning.  Be sure to listen carefully to track 10, which is an improvisation by the two musicians.  The fact that such an instrument would have been made in 1777 demonstrates that the harpsichord was still being used along side the piano far longer than I would have suspected. 



I know I will be in minority here, but I think that Stein vis-à-vis finally doesn't work out like a single instrument because of the insuperable tonal variety and multiple other differences between a fortepiano and a triple-manual harpsichord. When I listening to this recording, I always have certain feeling of discomfort with those percussive features that the instrument brings to the music: it's like a constant fight between the harpsichord and the fortepiano, where the latter is always in disadvantage. Anyway, a curious experiment.

Antoine, I'm not sure if you would be in the minority but I can confirm some of your points.  :) It being one instrument does produce another balance and, as it seems to me, also some tonal interference/blending of sound. The fortepiano actually sounds here a bit like a tangent piano to my ears. To me this this disc sounds as a lot of exhilarating fun! ;D

Anyway, for those who like to hear it:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/iw7bSzETbH4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/iw7bSzETbH4</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/J0LI34kYMWE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/J0LI34kYMWE</a>

Q
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 02:18:00 AM by Que »

DarkAngel

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #285 on: December 31, 2009, 05:28:25 AM »


OK now I understand the premise of the CD, I thought it was basically a duet/2 keyboard collection........but it does more exploration by using harpsicord and forte piano together since during that time (late 1700s) both existed and were still being used. Not sure that any composer ever envisioned them being used together at the same time but an interesting experiment.

Is it really that different than using different sounds/tones of violin, viola, cello together in music? All small chamber music pieces combine different instruments together in interesting ways.......youtube samples sound great, look forward to delivery
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 07:23:53 AM by Que »

DarkAngel

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #286 on: December 31, 2009, 05:43:08 AM »


BTW another Staier/Schornsheim project is this CD I also ordered, a snapshot sampling of the great keyboard composers works from Hamburg 1734...........this is very interesting concept that I hope they continue and progress in time intervals and regions  :)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #287 on: December 31, 2009, 05:51:00 AM »
OK now I understand the premise of the CD, I thought it was basically a duet/2 keyboard collection........but it does more exploration by using harpsicord and forte piano together since during that time (late 1700s) both existed and were still being used. Not sure that any composer ever envisioned them being used together at the same time but an interesting experiment.

Is it really that different than using different sounds/tones of violin, viola, cello together in music? All small chamber music pieces combine different instruments together in interesting ways.......youtube samples sound great, look forward to delivery

Concerto for Harpsichord and Piano in E flat major, Wq 479 by Carl Philipp Emmanuel Bach
Performer:  Robert Hill (Fortepiano), Léon Berben (Harpsichord)
Conductor:  Reinhard Goebel
Orchestra/Ensemble:  Musica Antiqua Cologne
Period: Classical
Written: 1788; Hamburg, Germany

and several other versions too. Of course, CPE was a visionary... :)

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Offline Opus106

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #288 on: December 31, 2009, 06:07:56 AM »
Of course, CPE was a visionary... :)

8)

And the son of an OK composer.
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Navneeth

Offline Mozart

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #289 on: February 04, 2010, 08:48:25 PM »
Im looking for a good set of piano trios  (= Anyone?
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Antoine Marchand

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #290 on: February 04, 2010, 09:03:14 PM »
Im looking for a good set of piano trios  (= Anyone?

On period instruments: The Mozartean Players [Steven Lubin, pianoforte; Stanley Ritchie, violin & Myron Lutzke, cello] recorded the complete piano trios on Harmonia Mundi (2 CDs). It is a superb version.   :)

Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #291 on: February 04, 2010, 10:58:00 PM »
On period instruments: The Mozartean Players [Steven Lubin, pianoforte; Stanley Ritchie, violin & Myron Lutzke, cello] recorded the complete piano trios on Harmonia Mundi (2 CDs). It is a superb version.   :)

Strongly seconded - an easy first choice! :)



Q

Elgarian

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #292 on: February 05, 2010, 01:54:13 AM »
On period instruments: The Mozartean Players [Steven Lubin, pianoforte; Stanley Ritchie, violin & Myron Lutzke, cello] recorded the complete piano trios on Harmonia Mundi (2 CDs). It is a superb version.   :)

I bought this old Hyperion set by the London Fortepiano Trio recently:



It all sounds pretty good to me, but I have nothing to compare the performances with. (Gramophone said nice things about them in 1985.) Does anyone know how it compares with the Mozartean Players set?

DavidW

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #293 on: February 05, 2010, 05:13:54 AM »
It all sounds pretty good to me, but I have nothing to compare the performances with. (Gramophone said nice things about them in 1985.) Does anyone know how it compares with the Mozartean Players set?

I've heard both the Mozartean Players and the Beaux Arts Trio (but not yours sorry), and both brought reactions of hohum good but not great.  I'm tempted to lean towards it being the works themselves.  I didn't think that there was anything revelatory about the Mozartean Players either, they just sounded a little more balanced.  The piano quartets are great, but the trios... I don't know I think I'll just play Haydn instead.  I mean they are pretty good, but they don't really stand at the same towering height as many of his (Mozart) other chamber works. :-\

DarkAngel

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #294 on: February 05, 2010, 06:44:06 AM »
I bought this old Hyperion set by the London Fortepiano Trio recently:



It all sounds pretty good to me, but I have nothing to compare the performances with. (Gramophone said nice things about them in 1985.) Does anyone know how it compares with the Mozartean Players set?

Don't have the Hyperion you show above, but do have the HM issue shown by Que above which is very good.......
If you don't already have it please consider the excellent Hadyn Piano Trio 10 CD boxset on Brilliant:


DarkAngel

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #295 on: February 05, 2010, 06:53:30 AM »


Recently ordered this HIP Kuijken sonata set to go with Perlman and Mutter sets, have been really enjoying violin/piano sonatas by Mozart, Beethoven, Bach recently  :)


Offline Opus106

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #296 on: February 05, 2010, 06:56:17 AM »
[H]ave been really enjoying violin/piano sonatas by... Bach recently  :)

Ahem, he did not write any.

;)
Regards,
Navneeth

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #297 on: February 05, 2010, 08:07:16 AM »
I didn't think that there was anything revelatory about the Mozartean Players either, they just sounded a little more balanced.  The piano quartets are great, but the trios...

Well, it's hard to enjoy even the best performances if you don't enjoy the music itself… and the question was about the piano trios.  :)

DavidW

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #298 on: February 05, 2010, 09:53:52 AM »
Well, it's hard to enjoy even the best performances if you don't enjoy the music itself… and the question was about the piano trios.  :)

I was talking about the trios, WHAT are you talking about?

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #299 on: February 05, 2010, 10:05:19 AM »
I was talking about the trios, WHAT are you talking about?

I’m sorry, I thought you were talking about why you are not interested in the trios.