Boulez vs. Feldman

[Karl Henning]

I don't hate Shostakovich! I just don't love Shostakovich like some seem to here...

Well, no quarrel with that viewpoint . . . .

[EigenUser]

No brainer for me .. Feldman's music is centered on surface 'sound' primarily and it's all the same essentially. Repetitive, slow, long, uneventful and boring. A kind of stasis always .. but nothing that interesting or moving .. null and void rhythmically .. harmonically flat. Boulez trumps him with the youthful Piano Sonatas alone! Then when we add .. Pli Selon Pli, the 2 cantatas, Le marteau, Eclat/Multiples, Repons, Sur Incises, ...explosante-fixe..., Notations for orchestra ..

Then, in the same vein that you claim people who don't like Boulez/Stockhausen don't understand them, I will suggest that perhaps you don't understand Feldman. I say this as someone who appreciates both.

No brainer for me .. Feldman's music is centered on surface 'sound' primarily and it's all the same essentially.
This is subjective, so let's break down what you have said.[/font]

Repetitive

Indeed, but you like Stimmung, don't you?

slow

= a negative?!

boring

Fair enough, that one is subjective.

A kind of stasis always

Definitely, no argument here.

but nothing that interesting or moving

Again, subjective, so it is a perfectly fair opinion. He's not for everyone. I happen to find his music incredibly moving.

null and void rhythmically

This is where we start getting more technical. Feldman's rhythms are often hidden behind slow tempi, so I can see not understanding that.

harmonically flat.

And here is the one that gets me. Feldman's music is anything but harmonically flat. In fact, next to Messiaen I think he has some of the most interesting harmonies (though, I suppose this is a matter of opinion).

Moral of story -- there are two sides!

[Karl Henning]

No brainer for me...

A bit of luck, then.  You aren't at your best when thought is required 

[Ken B]

I don't hate Shostakovich! I just don't love Shostakovich like some seem to here...

I meant you'd put up another lopsided no-brainer poll ... 

[NJ Joe]

I've never heard Morton Feldman.  Recommendations anyone?

[Karl Henning]

I've never heard Morton Feldman.  Recommendations anyone?

Triadic Memories

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[San Antone]

I've never heard Morton Feldman.  Recommendations anyone?

Rothko Chapel (also includes Why patterns)

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Coptic Light (also includes Piano and Orchestra and Cello and Orchestra)

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Violin and Orchestra

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[EigenUser]

Rothko Chapel (also includes Why patterns)

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Coptic Light (also includes Piano and Orchestra and Cello and Orchestra)

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Violin and Orchestra

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Seconded (particularly the first two discs).

[San Antone]

EigenUser,

If you haven't heard the Violin & Orchestra, it is very good.

[Artem]

Everybody seems to concentrate on middle/late and late period in Feldman's music, but I think there're some gems in his early compositions for piano in the 1950s. Both of the following CDs feature some of them.

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My favorite Feldman's compositions are from the late period though - For Bunita Marcus and For Philip Guston,

I haven't started investigating the music of Boulez but it is in plans.

[EigenUser]

EigenUser,

If you haven't heard the Violin & Orchestra, it is very good.

I've heard it a few times, but it wasn't my favorite. It might be because I have a general aversion to violin concertos (which is odd since I play violin, but that's another story). I'll give it another listen soon.

Rothko Chapel, Coptic Light, and Cello and Orchestra are probably my favorites among the works in the albums you suggested. That performance of Coptic Light is particularly mind-blowing

[Ken B]

I've heard it a few times, but it wasn't my favorite. It might be because I have a general aversion to violin concertos (which is odd since I play violin, but that's another story). I'll give it another listen soon.

Rothko Chapel, Coptic Light, and Cello and Orchestra are probably my favorites among the works in the albums you suggested. That performance of Coptic Light is particularly mind-blowing

Plus the 90 year old lady.

[NJ Joe]

Thank you all!

[San Antone]

Everybody seems to concentrate on middle/late and late period in Feldman's music, but I think there're some gems in his early compositions for piano in the 1950s. Both of the following CDs feature some of them.

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My favorite Feldman's compositions are from the late period though - For Bunita Marcus and For Philip Guston,

I haven't started investigating the music of Boulez but it is in plans.

I also think the early works are very good; but when introducing someone to Feldman for the first time, I always suggest the ones I posted.  Have you heard this CD?  It is very fine:

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[Artem]

Not yet. Unfortunately, I haven't heard the entire Mode series dedicated to Feldman.

[springrite]

My favorite Feldman's compositions are from the late period though - For Bunita Marcus and For Philip Guston,

Those are among my favourites too, along with Rothko, Crippled Symmetry and Piano and String Quartet.

[EigenUser]

Plus the 90 year old lady.

That's a great one. I always forget about it because it is so short. I never thought I'd say this about a Feldman work, but I wish it was longer!

Yes .. all the pieces being slow stasis is a bit of a drag and a negative. One would hope for more liveliness, excitement & variety.

Sometimes, I really just like sitting down in the afternoon and playing a long, drawn-out work like Piano and String Quartet. I wouldn't want excitement and variety in this case. I love the rolling arpeggios in the piano which seem to float on a bed of string chords. Of course I'm not going to listen to Feldman if I want something thrilling and dynamic! That isn't the point of his music.

Boulez and Feldman can't be compared. They clearly had very different artistic goals. The point of the poll is "who do you enjoy more?" -- not "who is ultimately better?". The former question has an immediate answer that varies depending on the person. The latter is like trying to compare apples to Tuesday.

[Karl Henning]

That's as pointless and inartistic as complaining that Rembrandt's work is different from Matisse's, by "complaining" that one would hope for more liveliness, excitement & variety.


One would hope a listener would have more imagination.

[Mirror Image]

What I find ironic in so many of James' posts is he practically begs all of us to use 'critical ears,' but, yet, it's perfectly fine for him not to use his own ears and degrade any composer he deems unworthy in the pantheon of his 'hall of greats'.

[Karl Henning]

Pfffttt!