Author Topic: Deutschland Uber Alles  (Read 8774 times)

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snyprrr

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Deutschland Uber Alles
« on: May 30, 2016, 09:27:12 AM »
Well, now I've really stepped in it,- the vast sea of post-WWII German Composers that is! It started with BA Zimmermann, and now I've forced myself through a death-march with Rihm (oy vey! the sheer volume), and have now claimed some semblance of detante with Ruzicka. And no, I haven't begun much with the East.

Here are just a few of the names:





Stockhausen (only because I ended up here last week)


Henze- also, can be omitted for Thread purposes, but, he DOES have a lot of stuff to weed through


BA Zimmermann
Udo Zimmermann
Walter Zimmermann

Rihm
Lachenmann
Holler
Ruzicka
Spahlinger
Grosskopf
Staebler
Schnebel
Frank Michael Beyer
Peter Michael Hamel*
Ablinger (do not want)
Staud
Herchet
Febel
Pintscher
Goldmann
Holliger
Cerha
Platz
Katzer
Bruttger
Hespos
Klaus Lang
Bernard Lang(?)
Klebe


It's an absolute quagmire!! HELP!!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 02:43:39 PM by snyprrr »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 09:29:55 AM »
Good luck. :-\ I have as much interest in post-WWII German composers as I have in Baroque Era German composers. In other words, very little. :P
“My music is best understood by children and animals.” - Igor Stravinsky

Offline lescamil

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 09:33:58 AM »
Just from looking at your list, there are some Austrians and Swiss that found their way in there.
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snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 09:37:18 AM »
Good luck. :-\ I have as much interest in post-WWII German composers as I have in Baroque Era German composers. In other words, very little. :P

Ve haff vays auf making you hear us!


Seriously, some BAZ and Ruzicka,  and select Rihm and Lachenmann and Holler seems to be right up your (and mine) alley. I wouldn't steer you into unbridled noisy dreary ennui,... oy, das gerschmeldtefiske!!


Seriously, we will guide you to the gold mine...

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 09:38:33 AM »
Just from looking at your list, there are some Austrians and Swiss that found their way in there.

ja, das ist Greater Germania


Insolence!! :P

Offline The new erato

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 09:40:07 AM »
Your two last posts made my day!

Offline nathanb

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 09:50:10 AM »
snyprrr, you are my dream poster   ;D

I have listened to the majority of those listed, but indeed it is a never-ending journey. I'm trying to get more familiar with them. I have not yet listened at all to Beyer, Hamel, Febel, Goldmann, or Bruttger. Any thoughts with regards to those?

I'm hanging out in a hospital room with my mom right now, but I could see if there are any missing names that I'd recommend, later.

Just looking at your list and a database briefly, you might have forgotten:

Bauckholt
Birkenkötter
Brass
Denhoff
Eckert
Eggert
Herrmann
Heyn
Hirsch
Huber (Nicolaus A.)
Hübler
Kalitzke
Kriedler
Leyendecker
Mack
Mahnkopf
Maierhof
Müller-Siemens
Mundry
Obst
Oehring
Pröve
Quell
Reimann
Schleiermacher
Stiebler
Trojahn
Ullmann
Von Schweinitz
Walter
Widmann
Zapf
Zender
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 10:06:05 AM by nathanb »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 09:52:56 AM »
Why don't you just include the Austrians too, synprrr?
“My music is best understood by children and animals.” - Igor Stravinsky

Offline ritter

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 10:35:20 AM »
Aber, wo ist Hans Werner Henze?  Und Giselher Klebe?
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Spineur

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2016, 10:58:10 AM »
Karlheinz Stockhausen ??

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2016, 02:57:24 PM »
Your two last posts made my day!

FINLAND WAS ALWAAAYS OURS!!... uh... i mean,... hey, how ya doin 'Rato?!?!


From now on, this Thread will exclusively be moderated by the great German Composer Johnnes Kristoph Maria Hauslitz


Why don't you just include the Austrians too, synprrr?

Vy not include the Poles, ja? But das ist gut- vich vons arrre dey? Cerha?

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2016, 03:02:03 PM »
Aber, wo ist Hans Werner Henze?  Und Giselher Klebe?
LOL, now you're just baiting me! :laugh: Added to the Q

Karlheinz Stockhausen ??

Added


"I think the main thing with this long list is the chronological pecking order, and yes, Stockhausen looms above all, though, somewhat invisible..."

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2016, 03:04:19 PM »

Stockhausen (only because I ended up here last week)


Henze- also, can be omitted for Thread purposes, but, he DOES have a lot of stuff to weed through


Rihm


BA Zimmermann

Udo Zimmermann - basically one Opera, 'The White Rose' German resistance WWII
Walter Zimmermann - somewhat a minimalist-a little like process music -meets- Feldman ********3 very good CDs on Mode, very Feldmanesque

Rihm
Lachenmann
Holler
Ruzicka

Spahlinger - Lachenmann-like shards
Grosskopf - Arditti disc is almost better than feldman+ferneyhough?******
Staebler -serious yet fun- theatrical instrumental
Schnebel - arch Priest of High Modernism******
Frank Michael Beyer -moody and complex
Peter Michael Hamel*
Ablinger (do not want) -can't st-and his style
Christoph Staude
Johannes Maria Staud
Herchet WERGO disc dense complexity, one of the few Ardittis I sold... dreary??? grey??? no fun??? academic???
von Bose -the WERGO disc I have did not impress-SQ way overlong for the materials, somewhat academically grating, annoying (Mandelring)
Febel
Pintscher -I don't know if I've heard anything original here, ... just a name imo
Goldmann - worth some redearch*********
Holliger
Cerha
Platz - not much available- I enjoy the Arditti piece- he conducts a lot
Katzer -cutting edge all along one WERGO disc stands out********E/A pioneer
Bruttger -mostly spectral-
Hespos - the wackiest!!!
Klaus Lang
Bernard Lang(?)
Klebe

Bauckholt
Birkenkötter
Brass
Denhoff
Eckert
Eggert
Herrmann
Heyn
Hirsch
Huber (Nicolaus A.) - pretty wacky... worth a check
Hübler -100X more complex than Ferneyhough???
Kalitzke- conductor/composer- I highly enjoy a certain KAIROS disc
Kriedler
Leyendecker
Mack
Mahnkopf
Maierhof
Müller-Siemens
Mundry
Obst - as I recall,... "Kristalwelt"???... arch IRCAM type... a little more bracing than the French... 6.562/10
Oehring
Pröve -very good, highly enjoy CD he sent me, with Arditti and lots of chamber music... typical modernist
Quell
Reimann  ......any good???... King Lear???.....
Schleiermacher
Stiebler
Trojahn - a little conservative?? Bergian??? conductor too
Ullmann - Lachenmann like???
Von Schweinitz
Walter
Widmann -
Zapf
Zender arch Priest of High Modernism
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 06:32:40 PM by snyprrr »

Offline nathanb

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2016, 03:20:38 PM »
I only excluded Henze and Stockhausen because I was drawing from a list of living composers.

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2016, 03:34:45 PM »
I only excluded Henze and Stockhausen because I was drawing from a list of living composers.

das ist vat I meant to say... check out new list updates... schnellentse!!!!!

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2016, 03:44:05 PM »
Both Rihm's and Lachenmann's Discographies tucker me out. And these labels... oy... they're like bent on my wallet's destruction, what with the rate of release on Wergo, ColLegno, Neos, and Kairos, to name just four of the most agregious(??) violators.

I'm glad we're in an era where we can at least sample things, and if we know our terrain, many times we can get a correct assessment of something even with a tiny little 30sec. clip. I've been plowing through Rihm, and it's just exhausting with someone like him,- chameleon.


I think I may have finally found an inlet for Lachenmann in the new Aimard recording of the concerto, which I only sampled yesterday. Lachenmann I really don't know how to approach beyond the Arditti. Kairos has seen to THAT!!!


Offline nathanb

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2016, 05:59:29 PM »
What do the cross-outs mean?

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 06:37:41 PM »
What do the cross-outs mean?

I guess they're just the "Big Eight", or whatever. They can be included, but all the other names are mostly 1 and 2 CD Composers. I've already discovered a few odd names tonight...



btw- Bruttger,- his famous piece 'Monolith' for Varese ensemble... there's a 2CD set of his stuff... somewhat spectral,,, mmm... if you've heard some of those French IRCAM CDs you've heard this- but this has no electronics. You can hear the whole thing on YouTube.

Offline nathanb

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2016, 07:23:21 PM »
Anyhow, my favorites of those listed and not crossed out, if I had to pick a handful, say, 15...:

Ablinger (I didn't like his style at first either... but there's something appealing about his conceptual purity. That and some obscure pieces like the installation for glass rods)

Eckert (He reminds me a bit of Bent Sørensen... maybe a hint of Sciarrino... sort of a dark approach to often quiet and sonority driven music)

Hespos (But damn do I wish he was better recorded)

Kalitzke (I have most of his stuff that's been recorded, barring a couple of rare comps. Very yes, plz)

Lang [Bernhard] (Seems rather pretentious at first. But dammit, those Differenz/Wiederholung pieces with loop generators and turntables accompanying huge orchestras... They work!)

Lang [Klaus] (lower case meditation ear candy, that is all)

Mahnkopf (If you ask me, this guy could be as good as Ferneyhough)

Oehring (Including the works with Iris Ter Schiphorst, a very unique set of available works. Tough to describe..)

Pintscher (Practically a traditionalist, by now, but essential good music)

Reimann (I think of him as a natural continuation of Berg - nothing hyper-experimental, just operas, lieder, etc of the highest quality)

Spahlinger (Lachenmann, yes. Perhaps without the Wagnerian scale, with a touch of new ideas [hello microtonal pianos and a piece just for tam tam])

Stäbler (Kind of a Kagel type... but his timbres are magnificent)

Ullmann (Interesting that you should compare him to Lachenmann... I guess it works, really, in technique...but in the end result, he's closer to Klaus Lang)

Widmann (Very colorful, lively, and virtuosic works. Good supply of recordings thanks to street cred as a concert clarinetist)

Zender (Unique perspective on transcriptions, wide supply of works available)

snyprrr

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Re: Deutschland Uber Alles
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2016, 05:38:48 AM »
Anyhow, my favorites of those listed and not crossed out, if I had to pick a handful, say, 15...:

Ablinger (I didn't like his style at first either... but there's something appealing about his conceptual purity. That and some obscure pieces like the installation for glass rods)

Eckert (He reminds me a bit of Bent Sørensen... maybe a hint of Sciarrino... sort of a dark approach to often quiet and sonority driven music)

Hespos (But damn do I wish he was better recorded)

Kalitzke (I have most of his stuff that's been recorded, barring a couple of rare comps. Very yes, plz)

Lang [Bernhard] (Seems rather pretentious at first. But dammit, those Differenz/Wiederholung pieces with loop generators and turntables accompanying huge orchestras... They work!)

Lang [Klaus] (lower case meditation ear candy, that is all)

Mahnkopf (If you ask me, this guy could be as good as Ferneyhough)

Oehring (Including the works with Iris Ter Schiphorst, a very unique set of available works. Tough to describe..)

Pintscher (Practically a traditionalist, by now, but essential good music)

Reimann (I think of him as a natural continuation of Berg - nothing hyper-experimental, just operas, lieder, etc of the highest quality)

Spahlinger (Lachenmann, yes. Perhaps without the Wagnerian scale, with a touch of new ideas [hello microtonal pianos and a piece just for tam tam])

Stäbler (Kind of a Kagel type... but his timbres are magnificent)

Ullmann (Interesting that you should compare him to Lachenmann... I guess it works, really, in technique...but in the end result, he's closer to Klaus Lang)

Widmann (Very colorful, lively, and virtuosic works. Good supply of recordings thanks to street cred as a concert clarinetist)

Zender (Unique perspective on transcriptions, wide supply of works available)

oooo.... juicy!!!!! thanks... I'll investigate