Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[Karl Henning]

This is why there has been pushback since day one.

So unfair!

[JBS]

Karl, you're always posting negative things about Trump. I may be far off the mark calling you a Democrat, but, let's be honest, you haven't exactly given anyone here who has given a pro-Trump opinion a reason to think otherwise. I'm sorry if I was wrong about you. Let me say this: when Obama was in office, I never uttered a word against him, because I wanted him to do a good job even if my political beliefs didn't align with his own. I think what's deeply insulting is how the Democratic Party has been acting since day one of Trump's presidency. I'm certainly not claiming Trump is a good person (he's far from that), but a president is someone that we don't necessarily have to like, but I can only hope he makes decisions that are good for the country. Disagree or not, but wishing him to fail (not saying you have done this) means that you basically want the country to fail. We should wish him well and that's all there is to it.

On the contrary, if a person thinks Trump's agenda leads to bad results, that his style of leadership and decisionmaking is guaranteed to lead to a degradation of America's position in the world, and the views that guide his base of followers are seriously wrong in many ways, then patriotism should motivate that person to not merely want him to fail, but actively work to ensure that failure.

[BasilValentine]

Karl, you're always posting negative things about Trump. I may be far off the mark calling you a Democrat, but, let's be honest, you haven't exactly given anyone here who has given a pro-Trump opinion a reason to think otherwise. I'm sorry if I was wrong about you. Let me say this: when Obama was in office, I never uttered a word against him, because I wanted him to do a good job even if my political beliefs didn't align with his own. I think what's deeply insulting is how the Democratic Party has been acting since day one of Trump's presidency. I'm certainly not claiming Trump is a good person (he's far from that), but a president is someone that we don't necessarily have to like, but I can only hope he makes decisions that are good for the country. Disagree or not, but wishing him to fail (not saying you have done this) means that you basically want the country to fail. We should wish him well and that's all there is to it.

Wishing him to fail? Do you think there is a worse failure than subverting the separation of powers, obstructing congress, selling out an ally for personal gain, cheating in and promising to continue cheating in an election, advocating the jailing or execution of political enemies, covering up the criminality of an entire administration (they were all in the loop), championing Russian disinformation and conspiracy theories over the conclusions of the entire intelligence community, and advocating the suppression of the free press? The man is a career criminal likely under sealed indictment on several felonies his one time fixer is doing three years for. What further failure to properly execute the duties of his office do you imagine is possible? 

[Karl Henning]

Poor Trump! he's never enjoyed any of life's advantages.

[Ratliff]

Karl, you're always posting negative things about Trump. I may be far off the mark calling you a Democrat, but, let's be honest, you haven't exactly given anyone here who has given a pro-Trump opinion a reason to think otherwise. I'm sorry if I was wrong about you. Let me say this: when Obama was in office, I never uttered a word against him, because I wanted him to do a good job even if my political beliefs didn't align with his own. I think what's deeply insulting is how the Democratic Party has been acting since day one of Trump's presidency. I'm certainly not claiming Trump is a good person (he's far from that), but a president is someone that we don't necessarily have to like, but I can only hope he makes decisions that are good for the country. Disagree or not, but wishing him to fail (not saying you have done this) means that you basically want the country to fail. We should wish him well and that's all there is to it.

I don't think Karl is offended to be called a Democrat, and neither am I. I don't wish American to fail to spite Trump, I want American to succeed despite Trump. I am appalled to see Trump stoke racism and division for his own political benefit, to express admiration and "love" for murderous dictators, to obstruct justice, to promote climate change denial, to derail efforts to reduce environmental pollution and develop clean energy sources, to destroy the norms that protect our republic, to collaborate with foreign enemy powers to interfere with U.S. elections. There are things the Trump administration has done which are good for our country, such as criminal justice reform and increased funding for some social programs, negotiated with Democrats in Congress. I am happy to see Trump succeed in things that benefit our country. I certainly want Trump to fail in his various criminal conspiracies, and his his attack on the separation of powers and the norms that support our republic.

[Karl Henning]

In the end, they didn't even pretend to take their oaths seriously.

[...]

Manager Val Demings (Fla.) reminded them that this would be the "only time in history" that an impeachment trial was held without witnesses or relevant documents.

Twelve Republican senators were missing. Josh Hawley (Mo.), Dan Sullivan (Alaska) and Tom Cotton (Ark.) joined in the [gum-]chewing.

[...]

At the start of the impeachment trial, Trump's Senate allies limited media coverage to hide from public scrutiny. Then they made sure the trial would end without a single witness called or a single document requested. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), the clinching vote against witnesses, declared before Friday's session began, "I don't believe the continuation of this process will change anything."

[...]

This was an ugly end to an ugly trial. It began with bold promises by the president's lawyers to prove there was no quid pro quo in his dealings with Ukraine. When former national security adviser John Bolton's manuscript, with firsthand evidence of the quid pro quo, made that impossible, key Republicans fell back to a new position: Trump's guilt doesn't matter.

"There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this," Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) declared late Thursday. But the choice of "what to do about what he did," Alexander said, should be "in the presidential election."

What an elegant solution! He accepts that Trump is guilty of cheating in the election — and, therefore, his fate should be determined by the very election in which he has cheated.

It's like a sprinter, caught doping before a competition, being told his fate would be determined by having him run the race.

[SimonNZ]

Trump's border wall, vulnerable to flash floods, needs large storm gates left open for months

"President Trump's border wall probably will require the installation of hundreds of storm gates to prevent flash floods from undermining or knocking it over, gates that must be left open for months every summer during "monsoon season" in the desert, according to U.S. border officials, agents and engineers familiar with the plans.

The open, unmanned gates in remote areas already have allowed for the easy entry of smugglers and migrants into the United States.

At locations along the U.S. southern border where such gates already are in operation, Border Patrol agents must manually raise them every year before the arrival of the summer thunderstorms that convert riverbeds into raging torrents that carry massive amounts of water and debris, including sediment, rocks, tree limbs and vegetation. Trump's wall, which features 30-foot metal bollards spaced four inches apart, effectively acts as a sewer grate that traps the debris; when clogged, the barriers cannot withstand the power of the runoff."[...]

[SimonNZ]

I was hoping MI would reply to some of the above, not because I'm spoiling for a fight, but because I want to understand how an otherwise intelligent person can continue to support Trump.

I see that "against him since day one" remark quite a bit on forums. In addition to what I said above I'd add that day day one was when it was clear that all the campaign vulgarity before taking office wasn't just electioneering. It was clear from his actions on day one that vilifying and undermining the freedom of the press and so many other jaw-dropping outrages of 2016 and the shameless doubling down in the face of undeniable evidence would be continued from the oval office.

Wait and see how he acts as president, they advised. It took only hours to be clear.


...and now he's free to act as he will without fear of consequences.

[Jo498]

Many people would vote for Trump as "lesser evil" without liking him at all.

[SimonNZ]

Do you mean everything we now know about Trump vs a "socialist"?

[Jo498]

I don't claim to know the positions of all these voters and I guess they could be quite different in detail but still coming to the conclusion that Trump was the lesser evil. Your suggestion would be one possible option.

Another is explained by conservative Rod Dreher who dislikes Trump. ("I believe Trump is a cunning man of low character and low competence, and I don't believe he is a Christian in any meaningful sense. But here is what he is not: a supporter of laws that allow us to exterminate the unborn with no conditions; an enemy of religious liberty; a promoter of laws that would write transgenderism into civil rights law; a person who considers traditionalist Christians to be what's wrong with America.")

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/there-is-a-christian-case-for-trump/

Think of a a "single issue voter" wrt e.g. abortion. Dreher asks one to consider whom one would have voted for if 1860 there had been an "anti-slavery Trump" and a civil, intelligent and competent pro-slavery opponent. If anti/slavery is one's main concern could it not be rational to vote for the former in such a situation?
For people like Dreher the Democrat's stances on issues like abortion and what Rod takes as religious liberties are so much worse than Trumps/Republicans that he would see the latter as lesser evil.

Of course, one can disagree with this, it may be utterly wrong to let such issues trump the faults of Trump, but it is not an absurd position.

[Herman]

Trump is no different than Reagan, Clinton, Bush, or Obama.

This is, shall we say, an ideosyncratic view. Most people agree Trump is unlike any other recent president, particularly in his total lack of interest in the work a president do, other than stroke the voter base.

What truly bothers me is when the Democrats want Trump to fail. Ummm...no, if he fails, we fail as a nation.

A lot of people are aware that on Day One of the Obama's presidency Mitch McConnell told his Congress members they had just one mission and that was making Obama a one term president by making him fail at everything.

[Karl Henning]

Many people would vote for Trump as "lesser evil" without liking him at all.

In fact, I know several who voted for him, because the Democrats were deaf to the country's Clinton Fatigue.

So, yes, if Bernie is the nominee, they will all be repeat Trump voters.

[SimonNZ]

Trophy hunting event to auction 'dream hunt' with Donald Trump Jr

"A week-long "dream hunt" with the US president's son Donald Trump Jr is being auctioned at an annual trophy hunting convention in Reno, Nevada alongside expeditions to shoot elephants, bears and giraffes.

The four-day event organized by Safari Club International (SCI) and advertised as a "hunters' heaven", will culminate on Saturday with an auction for a week-long Sitka black-tailed deer hunt in Alaska with Trump Jr, his son and a guide. At the time of writing, bidding for the yacht-based expedition stands at $10,000 (£7,685).

Other prizes include the chance to shoot an elephant on a 14-day trip in Namibia, an all-inclusive hunt package to Zimbabwe to kill buffalo, giraffe and wildebeest, and a 10-day crocodile hunting expedition in South Africa. The proceeds from the auction, which campaigners say could exceed $5m, will fund SCI's "hunter advocacy and wildlife conservation efforts", according to the organization.

Thousands of hunters from around the world are expected to attend the convention which begins on Wednesday, where Trump Jr, an avid trophy hunter, is set to give a keynote address.

The description of the auction prize states: "This year we will be featuring Donald Trump Jr, a man who needs no introduction, and whose passion for the outdoors makes him the number one ambassador for our way of life.

"Don Jr shares this heritage with his son and believes in handing down these lessons to young hunters. Don Jr and his son will be hosting this year's hunt along with Keegan [the guide] in Alaska."[...]

[71 dB]

In fact, I know several who voted for him, because the Democrats were deaf to the country's Clinton Fatigue.

So, yes, if Bernie is the nominee, they will all be repeat Trump voters.

Is there Bernie Fatigue?

[Karl Henning]

Is there Bernie Fatigue?

Probably not, but they are not going to vote for a Socialist, no one who voted for Trump, will.

[SimonNZ]

Trump says he will award Rush Limbaugh with Medal of Freedom

"President Donald Trump told network anchors during a private lunch Tuesday that he will award Rush Limbaugh with the Medal of Freedom, one day after the prominent political radio host announced he has advanced lung cancer.

According to a person familiar with the discussion, Trump informed anchors he will bestow Limbaugh with the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the coming months. Limbaugh has been a staunch ally of the President's for years, and dined with him at his Palm Beach golf club over the holidays. Once, during an event in the Rose Garden, Trump praised Limbaugh as someone who "can speak for three hours without a phone call."[...]

[Karl Henning]

Trump says he will award Rush Limbaugh with Medal of Freedom

"President Donald Trump told network anchors during a private lunch Tuesday that he will award Rush Limbaugh with the Medal of Freedom, one day after the prominent political radio host announced he has advanced lung cancer.

According to a person familiar with the discussion, Trump informed anchors he will bestow Limbaugh with the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the coming months. Limbaugh has been a staunch ally of the President's for years, and dined with him at his Palm Beach golf club over the holidays. Once, during an event in the Rose Garden, Trump praised Limbaugh as someone who "can speak for three hours without a phone call."[...]

It's all about: what they do for HIM.

[Daverz]

Trump says he will award Rush Limbaugh with Medal of Freedom

"President Donald Trump told network anchors during a private lunch Tuesday that he will award Rush Limbaugh with the Medal of Freedom, one day after the prominent political radio host announced he has advanced lung cancer.

At least 30 years too late, if it's an award for dying.

(No, I am not going to pretend to have compassion for Rush Limbaugh, a horrible, horrible excuse for a human being.)

[71 dB]

Probably not, but they are not going to vote for a Socialist, no one who voted for Trump, will.

Oh, the corporate media haven't told you many of Trump  voters (especially in the Rust Belt) in 2016 would have voted for Bernie who can definitely get back Obama voters who went to Trump because Hillary Clinton's corruption and corporate centrism did not resonate with them. Sure, a lot of Trump voters are too far gones who will vote for Trump no matter what. That's why Bernie campaign targets independents and young people trying to rise turnout.

Maybe for an older dude like yourself a Socialist is a scary monster, but younger generations aren't as scare of left-wing ideas. They see how the crony capitalism isn't working for them while the internet teaches them how well social democracy works in many other countries. Some people are just smart and know the difference between "socialism" and Bernie's ideas. They know how the corporate media fearmongers to protect the 1 %. Bernie can't have everyone's vote, but he can get enough to beat Trump badly and is one of the most electable candidates in the race if not the most electable.