Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 352022 times)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #540 on: November 20, 2012, 05:00:25 PM »
That is rich. Way to deflect some constructive criticism. Not worth the bother.

What a way to not read the rest of my post. ::)
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #541 on: November 20, 2012, 05:25:30 PM »
A testament to Stockhausen's creativity and the musicality of his thinking. We desperately need a re-release of the one pictured below ...
Stockhausen himself thought it was the best recording of his op.32 and wanted to obtain the rights to it for release on his own label.



Ellen Corver, Sepp Grotenhuis, Hans Tutschku (sound engineers: Bert Kraaijpoel, Jan Panis; producer: Maarten Hartveldt; digital editing: Chapel Studio Tilburg [Jan Panis, Hans Tutschku, Maarten Hartveldt]) – [1995], Stockhausen: Mantra, Supervised by Karlheinz Stockhausen TMD 950601. This recording received an Edison Classical Award in 1996.


Of course the Kontarksy recording was my first exposure to the work.  That version is also hard to find, besides the Stockhausen site, but is on Youtube in six segments.  The one you mention sounds very interesting and would be nice to hear.


Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #542 on: November 20, 2012, 06:26:20 PM »
Mantra



I love Mantra, one of the few post-1970 Stockhausen works I truly like, though I have only the Kontarsky duo release on SV.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #543 on: November 20, 2012, 07:10:23 PM »
And if you like Mantra .. you'll probably find lots to like within LICHT which will be to your liking, it's full of fantastic music, if you like jazz .. you'll also probably find stuff in LICHT very appealing as well. The follow up cycle .. KLANG has also got really good stuff.

I've got all the parts of Licht but have not come close to hearing all of it.  I've dipped into it from time to time.  I've also read that Mantra was the jumping off point for Licht and most of his music after Mantra.  Still, the pre-1970s stuff is what I keep going back to.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #544 on: November 20, 2012, 09:34:29 PM »
Well, it's good that James seems to have found a friend to talk with about Stockhausen.
“Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #545 on: November 21, 2012, 08:29:36 AM »
I've also read that Mantra was the jumping off point for Licht and most of his music after Mantra.

Yes, Mantra is Stockhausen's "seminal" formula piece (although technically it wasn't the first work he composed based on a melodic formula--that was Formel, some two decades prior) and it marks a radical change in how the composer crafted his works. IMO, after this turning point his output became spotty, though eminently interesting all the same.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #546 on: November 21, 2012, 08:53:59 AM »
Yes, Mantra is Stockhausen's "seminal" formula piece (although technically it wasn't the first work he composed based on a melodic formula--that was Formel, some two decades prior) and it marks a radical change in how the composer crafted his works. IMO, after this turning point his output became spotty, though eminently interesting all the same.

What do you think of his zodiac piece, Tierkries?  I've found three different recordings and they all sound very different.  I also have the one released through the Stockhausen Foundation which I need to listen to.

As an aside, after first hearing Mantra I bought a set of crotales.   

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #547 on: November 21, 2012, 09:15:52 AM »
What do you think of his zodiac piece, Tierkries?

I like it very much. My favorite is the original version for music boxes, which I have on a CD from the SV, along with the score. I have two other versions on SV CDs that I find quite interesting: A version for clarinet and piano and another one for trio. I am very interested in the version for orchestra, which I intend to get soon. I also have the version for organ released on Wergo, but it didn't really make an impression.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #548 on: November 21, 2012, 09:25:47 AM »
I like it very much. My favorite is the original version for music boxes, which I have on a CD from the SV, along with the score. I have two other versions on SV CDs that I find quite interesting: A version for clarinet and piano and another one for trio. I am very interested in the version for orchestra, which I intend to get soon. I also have the version for organ released on Wergo, but it didn't really make an impression.

This recording is on Spotify and has several things I like, including Tierkreis:



Markus S. plays trumpet with organ in a performance of Tierkreis.  Is this the one you referred to ?

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #549 on: November 21, 2012, 09:38:40 AM »
Markus S. plays trumpet with organ in a performance of Tierkreis.  Is this the one you referred to ?

No, I was referring to the one on Wergo:

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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #550 on: November 21, 2012, 09:46:54 AM »
This recording is on Spotify and has several things I like, including Tierkreis:



I have all of the works on that CD already on SV releases (bar specific recordings or ensemble combinations), except for the Für Kommende Zeiten excerpts. Spiral and Pole are quite good "free-form" works--the scores and notes on how they were composed are worth reading.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #551 on: November 21, 2012, 09:49:35 AM »
No, I was referring to the one on Wergo:



Ah, yes, I remember seeing that one during my search.

Something of an oddity is this one for hurdy-gurdy and fretless electric bass:



I'm listening to it on MOG.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #552 on: November 21, 2012, 01:13:11 PM »
How is the Naxos recording of Mantra? I'm considering it as Disc 2 in my cautious re-exploration of Stockhausen.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #553 on: November 23, 2012, 05:02:41 AM »
This article written by Xenia Pestova, Mark T. Marshall and Jacob Sudol brings together two of my interests: authentic performance practice ("HIP") and late 20th century music, but more specifically, Stockhausen and the work Mantra.

ANALOGUE TO DIGITAL: AUTHENTICIY VS. SUSTAINABILITY N STOCKHAUSEN’S MANTRA (1970)

This ideas in this article are realized with this recording:



Summary
Quote
The authors introduce and examine the digitization
process of a classic work for two pianos and live
electronics by Karlheinz Stockhausen, Mantra (1970).
Originally written for custom-designed analogue ring
modulators, pianos and percussion, Mantra presents
many challenges to the contemporary performer wishing
to program the work. Problems and solutions are
discussed in this realization of the original electronic
processing in a digital computer-based version. The
authors argue the merits of presenting this rarely
performed piece in an accessible and sustainable format
while taking into account considerations of authentic
performance practice and studying the earlier analogue
technology. Conclusions are drawn based on
preparations for the 2008 tour by the Pestova/Meyer
piano duo (Xenia Pestova / Pascal Meyer)

Quote
Quote
In the preface to the score, the
composer asks for a short-wave radio receiver or a tape
recorder with a volume control and two sets of
“MODUL 69 B”, a ring modulator built especially for
the piece according to Stockhausen’s specifications. The
composer writes: “This piece of equipment has 3
microphone inputs with regulable microphone
amplifiers, compressor, filters, sine-wave generator and
a particularly refined ring modulator” [6].
Each modulator comes with a dial that the pianists
must adjust constantly during performance, controlling
the modulating sine tone frequency that is used to
process the pianos in real-time. The resulting sound is
mixed with the unprocessed piano sound and projected
into the hall, resulting in a highly unusual and rich range
of harmonized and distorted timbres. Due to these highly
specific and outdated technical requirements, Mantra
provides a perfect example of an important work on the
verge of obsolescence. Performances are rare, expensive
and difficult to arrange, and the bulky analogue set-up
contributes to the complications of touring the work,
making it a prime candidate for digitization. This is a
trend that is developing with increasing urgency and
concerns all classic live electronic repertoire.
Quote
Digitization of classic live-electronic repertoire involves
many technical, practical and aesthetic aspects. The
question of authenticity is one of them, and requires the
performers to carefully consider all the available options
prior to embarking on the project, while bearing in mind
the important concept of being “true” to the composer’s
intentions. In a 2006 article, composer Simon Emmerson
introduces the performer to an interesting paradox: the
importance of sustaining and digitizing older repertoire
is paramount today, yet what about “authentic”
interpretation in terms of historical instrument
performance practice? Emmerson presents a parallel
with the early music performance practice debate,
pointing out that the analogue hiss and specific sound
quality are in fact part of the aesthetic appeal of the
music, presented along with the visual aspect of the
technology as an “aura of its time” [2]. Indeed, rather
than being inferior, could it be that aging technology
should be viewed in the same light as period instruments
that can be seen as “different” rather than “limited” in
comparison with their modern counterparts [2]?

To further complicate the situation, Stockhausen
himself is known to have had strong opinions on the
matter, and was very particular in asking the performers
to use very specific instruments and equipment, down to
a certain type of egg timer that resonates in the tam-tam
in Mikrophonie I [7]. In the case of Mikrophonie I,
special analogue filters were designed for the piece, and
according to Stockhausen, computerized simulations
only ensure that “their characteristic sound goes to hell”
[7]. The composer elaborates further: “It is extremely
important to comprehend works, which were born to a
particular historical moment, for their uniqueness. It just
won’t do to be continually discarding everything and
making something different, but rather we should be
preserving things and adding new ones. Anyway, it is
my experience of music that every instrument, every
item of equipment, every technique can produce
something unique, which can be achieved in no other
way. Since that is the case, then we can speak of an
original technique, and thus deal with an original
instrument. If it is imitable, then it is also not worth
much [7].”

It also goes to the idea that music is and ought to remain somewhat ephemeral, something created of a specific time.   I find it fascinating how the two worlds of HIP and experimental music are finding common ground.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 05:40:38 AM by sanantonio »

Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #554 on: November 26, 2012, 07:22:27 AM »
In some sections of KONTAKTE I had to splice it all by hand, which is an unbelievable labour. Imagine, I worked on the last section of KONTAKTE beginning around 23'00 or 24'00, together with Gottfried Michael Koenig in Studio 11 on the third floor of Cologne Radio, for three months. And when it was completely ready, I spliced it together with previous sections, listened, turned pale, left the studio and was totally depressed for a whole day. And I came back next morning and announced to Koenig that we had to do it all over again. I mean, he almost fainted.

You see, there is so much work involved in the synchronization of layers, and every sound of KONTAKTE is made in a very complicated way from speeded-up trains of pulses. We had to do it all over again because the general speed was too fast, the music was in too much of a rush. This meant we had to edit the whole section all over again, splicing hundreds, even thousands of small segments of music. That mosaic technique was extraordinarily difficult, and also because you could only hear the result at the very end. If I had been using a synthesizer, as I did for SIRIUS, I would only have had to change the timescale, and I could have done this in one day, and been able to hear the result straight away, during the time of working. -Stockhausen

(from an inteview with Karlheinz Stockhausen by Robin Maconie which was recorded at the composer's home in Kürten, near Cologne, on August 4 and August 7, 1981)


The superhuman effort required to create a piece as complex, detailed and textured as Kontakte using such primitive techniques almost defies belief. It must have been devastating to work on something for three months, only to play it back and think, "Well, I've buggered that up good and proper."

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #555 on: November 26, 2012, 08:31:39 AM »
Kathinka Pasveer (from Stockhausen Foundation) just announced in Facebook the next:

"Finished mixing MICHAELION for CD 54 today! Beautiful!!!! Hopefully the CD will be available for Christmas…"

 8)

Offline San Antone

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #556 on: December 26, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »
When clearing some bookshelves I found this book I bought back in the '70s when I was listening to a lot of Stockhausen



Published in 1973 it contains most of the works I like the best, but it would be nice to have a followup volume that covered his later decades.

I'll probably re-read it, and it will be like reading it for the first time.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #557 on: December 26, 2012, 04:20:26 PM »


Published in 1973 it contains most of the works I like the best, but it would be nice to have a followup volume that covered his later decades.

I have it too, and it is indeed a good read. I also have Jonathan Harvey's book, which contains a reasonably detailed and more technical account of roughly the same works covered in Wörner's book:

Jonathan Harvey, The music of Stockhausen



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0571102514/?tag=goodmusicguideco

But the best one I have and can recommend is Robin Maconie's book, of which the 2005 edition covers Stockhausen's output up to and including all Licht operas, and therefore is more or less the "followup" volume you desire:

Robin Maconie, Other planets

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #558 on: December 28, 2012, 08:14:41 AM »
Book Description
The Darmstadt New Music Courses were the most significant institutional bastion of new music in post-war Europe. Yet until now there has been no full-length coverage of them in English. This volume shows the rise and fall of the 'Darmstadt School', through a wealth of primary sources and analytical commentary.


About the Author
Martin Iddon is Associate Professor of Music at the University of Leeds. He previously lectured at University College Cork and Lancaster University, and studied composition and musicology at the Universities of Durham and Cambridge. His musicological research largely focuses on post-war music in Germany and the United States of America, and has been published in numerous leading journals, including Musical Quarterly, twentieth-century music and the Contemporary Music Review. His music has been performed in Europe, North America and Australia, and has been featured on BBC Radio 3, Radio New Zealand and the Österreichischer Rundfunk.

Product Details
Hardcover: 345 pages
Publisher: Cambridge University Press (April 30, 2013)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1107033292
ISBN-13: 978-1107033290


Is that Nono, Schoenberg's daughter, and Cage on the cover?

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #559 on: December 28, 2012, 03:52:19 PM »
Is that Nono, Schoenberg's daughter, and Cage on the cover?

Nono, Nuria, Stockhausen and Maderna.
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