Haydn's Haus

[Brahmsian]

Aww, if only Mozart could have lived another 15 years or so.

Ludwig, Wolfie and Papa Jo could have collaborated on a "Planets" Symphony cycle.    Jupiter, of course, already done. 

[Wakefield]

Hogwood/AAM box is on sale at ArkivMusic today only for $100. I'm thinking about it. Have not seen a better price...

Maybe you should consider Amazon.it:

http://www.amazon.it/The-Symphonies-J-Haydn/dp/B009LNI0T0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386019030&sr=8-1&keywords=haydn+hogwood

$73 plus sh. & h.

[Brahmsian]

Yesterday, listened to Disc 18 of the Dennis Russell Davies and Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra set! 

Disc 18

Symphony No. 51 in B flat major Sparkling horns in the 1st mvt.  However, it was the II. Adagio that floored me.  High horn call, answered by a very low horn call (I thought it was a tuba or bassoon at first  )  This is seriously the most poignant, arresting classical era Adagio that I have heard since discovering Mozart's Gran Partita Serenade Adagio.  It is gorgeous.

Symphony No. 64 in A major 'Tempora Mutantur' Ditto here for the II. Largo.  Again, the effective use of the low horn is heart wrenching.  The pauses are equally effective.  The III. Menuet & Trio provides a much needed reprieve to the delicate melancholy of the Largo.

Needless to say, I was completed stunned and highly moved by the slow movements of both of these symphonies.

Would love to hear Gurn and others thoughts on these two beauties. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Yesterday, listened to Disc 18 of the Dennis Russell Davies and Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra set! 

Disc 18

Symphony No. 51 in B flat major Sparkling horns in the 1st mvt.  However, it was the II. Adagio that floored me.  High horn call, answered by a very low horn call (I thought it was a tuba or bassoon at first  )  This is seriously the most poignant, arresting classical era Adagio that I have heard since discovering Mozart's Gran Partita Serenade Adagio.  It is gorgeous.

Symphony No. 64 in A major 'Tempora Mutantur' Ditto here for the II. Largo.  Again, the effective use of the low horn is heart wrenching.  The pauses are equally effective.  The III. Menuet & Trio provides a much needed reprieve to the delicate melancholy of the Largo.

Needless to say, I was completed stunned and highly moved by the slow movements of both of these symphonies.

Would love to hear Gurn and others thoughts on these two beauties. 

Ray, well, you caught Haydn right in his sweet spot! Two of his very strongest abilities are writing slow movements and writing for horns. You are seeing the actuality of horns in those days. People tend to think of first horn, second horn etc. in terms of degree of difficulty, but back then it wasn't that so much as pitch. Hornists worked in pairs, one high, one low. Since the horns were pitched for it, the high part wasn't always the hardest.

If there is another composer who writes more beautiful slow movements than Haydn, I need to hear his work. 'Tempora Mutantur'. Times change. I read an essay a couple of years ago about this, IIRC the author postulates that Haydn was juxtaposing older styles against newer ones to show how that was true. Can't remember details, unfortunately. I'll see if I can find the essay again, now I'm curious. 

[Brahmsian]

Ray, well, you caught Haydn right in his sweet spot! Two of his very strongest abilities are writing slow movements and writing for horns. You are seeing the actuality of horns in those days. People tend to think of first horn, second horn etc. in terms of degree of difficulty, but back then it wasn't that so much as pitch. Hornists worked in pairs, one high, one low. Since the horns were pitched for it, the high part wasn't always the hardest.

If there is another composer who writes more beautiful slow movements than Haydn, I need to hear his work. 'Tempora Mutantur'. Times change. I read an essay a couple of years ago about this, IIRC the author postulates that Haydn was juxtaposing older styles against newer ones to show how that was true. Can't remember details, unfortunately. I'll see if I can find the essay again, now I'm curious. 

The low horn sounds in those two slow movements were haunting, almost eerie.  Beautiful, yet slightly ominous.  Fantastic.

Cool, I'd be interested in reading that essay, Gurn. 

[Mandryka]

Yesterday, listened to Disc 18 of the Dennis Russell Davies and Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra set! 

Disc 18

Symphony No. 51 in B flat major Sparkling horns in the 1st mvt.  However, it was the II. Adagio that floored me.  High horn call, answered by a very low horn call (I thought it was a tuba or bassoon at first  )  This is seriously the most poignant, arresting classical era Adagio that I have heard since discovering Mozart's Gran Partita Serenade Adagio.  It is gorgeous.

Symphony No. 64 in A major 'Tempora Mutantur' Ditto here for the II. Largo.  Again, the effective use of the low horn is heart wrenching.  The pauses are equally effective.  The III. Menuet & Trio provides a much needed reprieve to the delicate melancholy of the Largo.

Needless to say, I was completed stunned and highly moved by the slow movements of both of these symphonies.

Would love to hear Gurn and others thoughts on these two beauties. 

I listened to loads of 51s recently -- the movement with the two horns -- and was very favourably impressed by Denis Russell Davies. I think you were lucky to discover the music in that recording.

[Gurn Blanston]

The low horn sounds in those two slow movements were haunting, almost eerie.  Beautiful, yet slightly ominous.  Fantastic.

Cool, I'd be interested in reading that essay, Gurn. 

I looked in the TOC of the book I thought it was in, but it wasn't. When I get home I'll try to find it and give you a citation.

Oh yes, no doubt. Hard to find a composer for the horn who did it better.

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Anyone has some love for the Amsterdam String Quartet?

They have a superb SACD with op. 20-3, op. 74-1 and op. 76-1.

[Gurn Blanston]

Anyone has some love for the Amsterdam String Quartet?

They have a superb SACD with op. 20-3, op. 74-1 and op. 76-1.

I have both of their disks and am very fond of them. I like their style. I particularly enjoy the disk you pictured. The Op 74 #1 is as good as it gets.

[Karl Henning]

Mm, nice!

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm rather partial to Haydn's use of the less typical forms for his symphonies especially. I put this essay together on two consecutive church symphonies with greatly contrasting features. I welcome you to check it out and discuss here.

1764 – The Music – Two extremes of the Church Symphony

Hope you enjoy!

[TheGSMoeller]

I'm rather partial to Haydn's use of the less typical forms for his symphonies especially. I put this essay together on two consecutive church symphonies with greatly contrasting features. I welcome you to check it out and discuss here.

1764 – The Music – Two extremes of the Church Symphony

Hope you enjoy!

Enjoyed, very much. Thanks, Gurn. What are thoughts on Symphony No. 34 in D minor?

[Gurn Blanston]

Enjoyed, very much. Thanks, Gurn. What are thoughts on Symphony No. 34 in D minor?

Thanks, Greg.  I posted this link a couple of weeks ago and we discussed it briefly. Some folks were planning on giving it a listen, I am curious what they decided about it (those who didn't already post, that is).

Symphony #34 is a sinfonia da Chiesa. The lovely Adagio opening movement is nearly exactly as long as the remaining three movements combined. The overall tone of this movement is one of profound sadness. Despite the fact that there has never been any demonstrable indication that Haydn's personal feelings were transmitted into his music, I find it more than a little coincidental that Haydn's father, Mathias, died in September of 1763, which would be right at the same time that this work was composed. On the other side of the equation, noted Haydn scholar Elaine Sisman has suggested that this work was composed as incidental music for a play by Carlo Goldoni called The English Philosopher, so perhaps the music is merely reflecting a mood in the play. This would be more consistent with Haydn's known personality and ideals. The remaining three movements are all in sunny and bright D major, as different in mood from the opening as one can imagine. So the tonic D is seen throughout, and it is not unusual to see this work described as being in d minor/Major. It is one that deserves more recognition in any case, not least because it is Haydn's first minor mode symphony!

[TheGSMoeller]

A must have for Haydn Haus-mates. The trio in D major, No. 24 has been a favorite of mine among the trios, the transition from the Andante to the Allegro ma dolce is one of beauty, they seem to bleed into each other. Look for the Vienna Piano Trio for the most poetic No. 24. But the Trio Goya here is pure delight. But the real discovery for me is the E Major Trio, listed here as No.28, (but the Levin/Beths/Bylsma Trio have it as No.44, perhaps Gurn could help me with this numbering). At the center of E Major trio is a steadily moody Allegretto that turns suddenly playful at the final seconds. I'm really in love with this disc.

[TheGSMoeller]

Thanks, Greg.  I posted this link a couple of weeks ago and we discussed it briefly. Some folks were planning on giving it a listen, I am curious what they decided about it (those who didn't already post, that is).

Symphony #34 is a sinfonia da Chiesa. The lovely Adagio opening movement is nearly exactly as long as the remaining three movements combined. The overall tone of this movement is one of profound sadness. Despite the fact that there has never been any demonstrable indication that Haydn's personal feelings were transmitted into his music, I find it more than a little coincidental that Haydn's father, Mathias, died in September of 1763, which would be right at the same time that this work was composed. On the other side of the equation, noted Haydn scholar Elaine Sisman has suggested that this work was composed as incidental music for a play by Carlo Goldoni called The English Philosopher, so perhaps the music is merely reflecting a mood in the play. This would be more consistent with Haydn's known personality and ideals. The remaining three movements are all in sunny and bright D major, as different in mood from the opening as one can imagine. So the tonic D is seen throughout, and it is not unusual to see this work described as being in d minor/Major. It is one that deserves more recognition in any case, not least because it is Haydn's first minor mode symphony!

Ah, thank you, Gurn. I did miss this link, haven't been as active as I would like to be lately. Off to read this, hopefully will have time to respond.

[Gurn Blanston]

A must have for Haydn Haus-mates. The trio in D major, No. 24 has been a favorite of mine among the trios, the transition from the Andante to the Allegro ma dolce is one of beauty, they seem to bleed into each other. Look for the Vienna Piano Trio for the most poetic No. 24. But the Trio Goya here is pure delight. But the real discovery for me is the E Major Trio, listed here as No.28, (but the Levin/Beths/Bylsma Trio have it as No.44, perhaps Gurn could help me with this numbering). At the center of E Major trio is a steadily moody Allegretto that turns suddenly playful at the final seconds. I'm really in love with this disc.

Greg,
Oh yes, I am very partial to that disk. The playing is superb, and of course, the music itself is Haydn at his peak writing in a form that he had grown to truly admire. The numbering is like this:


1795   38   24   D
1795   39   25   G
1795   40   26   f#
1795   41   31   eb
1796   42   30   Eb
1796   43   27   C
1796   44   28   E
1796   45   29   Eb

Where the second column are the actual chronological numbers as divined by Landon (Christa (Mrs.) in this case, I believe) while the third column are the Hoboken equivalents.

[kishnevi]

listed here as No.28, (but the Levin/Beths/Bylsma Trio have it as No.44, perhaps Gurn could help me with this numbering).

Actually, it's rather simple.   Musicologists decided that Haydn chronology was not complicated enough, so they came up with two distinct numbering series for the trios.

[Gurn Blanston]

Actually, it's rather simple.   Musicologists decided that Haydn chronology was not complicated enough, so they came up with two distinct numbering series for the trios.

One day they will match the 4 or 5 available for the symphonies... they just aren't trying hard enough.

[Gurn Blanston]

With the intolerable weather outside, and the wife putting up the Christmas tree, I decided to get ahead of my schedule and post the next installment of HaydnSeek today. If you would like to check it out, here is a link to it;

Not to give the impression here that Haydn was hung up on writing Church Symphonies; that's just me. He was busy writing all sorts of other music too. Like these two works which are more typical of the work he was doing at the time, which was raising the symphony out of the muck in which it was born....

[Madiel]

Actually, it's rather simple.   Musicologists decided that Haydn chronology was not complicated enough, so they came up with two distinct numbering series for the trios.

Which is why nicknames, usually based on the dedicatees, are so helpful wherever possible.  If you said that this E major trio was 'Jansen 2' I'd personally feel much more secure.