Concertgebouw

[Michel]

Several times year and especially if I have not heard it for a while, I am reminded of how brilliantly special this orchestra is.

Just today, for example, I heard Haitink's Tchaikovsky 5, which I have not heard before I was amazed. Mvarinsky has always been my favourite, but now this is a definite contender.

I think it is the luscious warmth that gets me everytime and is what makes many of their recordings my favourite. I wish Karajan conducted them - has he ever incidentally?

Chailly's Mahler was brilliant, Haitink's Shostakovich is still my favourite, despite Kondrashin.

What other symphony recordings might you recommend, and do you agree?

[Que]

First let me point out that "Concertgebouw" is the name of the hall that the orchestra was named after (it means literally "concert hall").



The name of the orchestra is: Koninklijk Concertgebouworkest (Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra).
The prefix "Koninklijk" was added in 1988 when the orchestra celebrated its 100 birthday, it was called just "Concertgebouworkest" before that.

In the early years Philips had the custom to add "Amsterdam" for good measure, but that has never been part of the official name nor was it customary to call it like that in Holland. When I worked in a CD shop during my student years, a Japanese tourist came to me and asked of recordings by: "Amsterdam"!, "Amsterdam"! It took me a minute or so to realise that he was referring to the Concertgebouw Orchestra...

To the recordings. From Haitink's days I would choose his Mahler and Brahms cycles. His Bruckner was good too, but not my taste. Haitink's LvB piano concertos with Perahia are great, as is the Brahms violin concerto with Krebbers.
The best Beethoven symphonies cycle is IMO with regular guest conductor Eugen Jochum.
With Chailly I like the late-Romantic/modern repertoire best: Stravinsky, Berg, Schönberg, Zemlinksy.
Dorati recorded wonderful Tchaikovsky ballets (Nutcracker & Sleeping Beauty)

And then there is of course Willem Mengelberg: great in the Romantic repertoire: the Tchaikovsky symphonies 4-6, the Mahler 4, Strauss, and some bits and pieces by Von Weber, Berlioz, Wagner, etc.

I haven't mentioned Eduard van Beinum yet, who came between Mengelberg and Haitink. Maybe others can recommend some of his recordings.

Q

[Sergeant Rock]

What other symphony recordings might you recommend, and do you agree?

Yes, I agree with you. Those marvelous Philips recordings from the 60s and early 70s were my introduction to so much music and I still maintain a fierce attachment to them. Some favorite recordings (not duplicating Que's): first this box set of Szell's Decca and Philips recordings:



The Concertgebouw performances include a marvelously suave Mozart 34, a blazing Sibelius 2 and my favorite Beethoven 5.

Other favorites: Bernstein's Mahler 1 and Das Knaben Wunderhorn with Popp and Schmidt. Haitink's Das Lied von der Erde with Janet Baker. Harnoncourt's Mozart cycle. Ashkenazy's Rachmaninoff symphonies. Colin Davis's Hen and Bear.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Some of my own Concertgebouw favourites that spring to mind - Brahms' Violin Concerto (Haitink/Krebbers), Mahler's 7th (Haitink's second), Bruckner's 9th (ibid.), Rimsky's Sheherazade (Kondrashin), Rachmaninov's First, Second, Isle of the Dead, Symphonic Dances (Ashkenazy), and there must be more.

I was born in Amsterdam. When I was in the highest form of primary school (around 1972/3), there was a program of trying to interest children in classical music. So all the school children of Amsterdam went to the Grote Zaal one day to hear NOT the Concertgebouw Orchestra, but another orchestra that played there regularly - the Amsterdam Philharmonic, under its conductor Anton Kersjes (it has changed into the Netherlands Philharmonic). I still know what they played - Diepenbrock, Elektra, and Saint-Saëns, Introduction et Rondo capricioso.

A few years later I had a very musical friend who took me for the second time to a concert (Beethoven's Violin Concerto and Stravinsky's Sacre). After that I was hooked, and went to the Concertgebouw regularly.

It's years now since I last went. The programming is too unadventurous for me.

[Michel]

I too hate the same old stuff being played again...like the darn proms.

[Sergeant Rock]

I too hate the same old stuff being played again...like the darn proms.

It is a problem. I've noticed that with many of the great orchestras...they've become museums. We wanted to go to Dresden, explore the city, hear the Staatskapelle at the Semperoper but when I checked the schedule last year, absolutely nothing turned me on...not anything that compelled a long journey. Maybe next season.

In the meantime, our local orchestra, the Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz, continues to provide an amazing amount of off-the-wall music. Thank god for the provincial orchestras 

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Rant on

The problem is - the Concertgebouw has turned into 'the living-room of the elite' (their own term), anxious to get business bums in seats, and the posteriors of everyone who is someone in, especially, Amsterdam circles. So here we have an amazing orchestra, capable of playing everything, mostly trying not to interfere too much in the much more important business of networking and being seen.

Bye bye Brian, Vermeulen, Hartmann, and every other composer who could blow this hallowed institution's roof off.

End of rant

[bhodges]

Last month the Concertgebouw came for three concerts here in NYC, and although I went to all of them--and with pleasure--there wasn't much excitement, programming-wise.  (Rattle and Berlin still get honors, in my book, for programming unusual repertoire.)

I really enjoyed the Chailly era, since he programmed Berio, Ligeti and other things--all of which this group can do beautifully (in addition to the other composers mentioned above).  Maybe Jansons will rise to the challenge at some point.

--Bruce

[Michel]

The most annoying thing is, though, for me, is not even the lack of breadth, it is more than even within the most popular composers, they only play the most popular stuff.

Why can't we hear Beethovens first, for example? There is only so many times you can hear the 5th!

[Michel]

Having said that, I genuinly do prefer sitting at home listening and do not that often see live music, except at the opera, so I don't have much right to complain.

[Symphonien]

What other symphony recordings might you recommend, and do you agree?

Yes, from what little I've heard, I have to say that this is indeed a very distinctive orchestra. Besides what has been mentioned so far, I would also like to point out this fantastic Philips duo of Debussy's orchestral works, all with Haitink except for the Berceuse Héroïque under Van Beinum:

In the meantime, our local orchestra, the Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfaz ...

Now Deutsche Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz...

[Sergeant Rock]

Now Deutsche Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz...

Yeah, I know. As if the old name weren't long enough 

Mrs. Rock's comment, on first hearing the new name: "Oh good, now our orchestra won't be confused with the American Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz"...located in New Jersey, we think.

Sarge

P.S. Haitink's Debussy...good call

[not edward]

Not that I'm an expert or anything, but Monteux's Eroica with this orchestra is superb. (Amongst a significant number of Concertgebouw recordings I have, other ones that stand out are Haitink's Debussy as already mentioned; and Chailly's superlative recording of Berio's Sinfonia).

[Dancing Divertimentian]

As far as getting out of a rut program-wise, I had high hopes that the (relatively) new RCO Live label would introduce us to all kinds of new music, or at least different music, at the hands of the RCO. Especially since the arrival of Jansons signaled a new beginning of sorts. But so far the label's releases have been pretty standard. Hope that changes in the future...

Fortunately there are enough worthwhile recordings by this orchestra already that the loss isn't too dramatic.

If I had to pick one standout recording it would probably be Beethoven's Missa Solemnis conducted by Jochum. The earth moves under the spiritual weight of this reading. It's unfortunately OOP but I think ArkivMusic has it as an 'on demand' item.

I agree with others about the Chailly tenure. His Mahler, Stravinsky, and Schoenberg are all at or near tops for me. I'd add his fabulous Hindemith recordings to the list as well.   

As far as Haitink, I, too, love his Shostakovich cycle. No, it isn't 'frenetic' Shostakovich but then it isn't really trying to be. It just is what it is with that iron sense of architecture Haitink is known for. Compelling stuff when it works so well, as here. His Debussy I find winning if not my favorite. The bits of his later (digital) Bruckner, however, are beautiful.

And of course wouldn't want some of the guest conductors to get lost in the shuffle. On record, there are some fabulous recordings by Hans Rosbaud, which can be found on a now OOP DG compendium (figures). Included are a wonderful Emperor concerto w/ Robert Casadesus on piano as well as an excellent Petrushka. Too bad there isn't more from Bernstein with the RCO. The Mahler he recorded along with his Schubert 9th are of a very high quality.

There are some interesting things with Kondrashin, too (mostly OOP). A marvelous Scriabin 3rd symphony, as well as some winning Shostakovich on Philips.

[Josquin des Prez]

Why can't we hear Beethovens first, for example?

Because it sucks, quite frankly. Why is it that when people complain about orchestras playing the same "old stuff" people usually demand subpar replacements?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Almost forgot about this beauty:

[Bonehelm]

Hey, don't forget Chailly's Mahler cycle!!!



There are some RSO Berlin in there as well.

[Grazioso]

Because it sucks, quite frankly. Why is it that when people complain about orchestras playing the same "old stuff" people usually demand subpar replacements?

Them's fighting words! A lot of us like "Classical" LvB, and I could hardly imagine someone seriously saying the 1st sucks. Not to their taste, sure, but sucks?

Hey, don't forget Chailly's Mahler cycle!!!



There are some RSO Berlin in there as well.

A fascinating set. The playing (and recording) is glorious, and Chailly is a fine Mahlerian, even if his tempi can be rather too casual for such tension-filled, exciting music.

[Michel]

Chailly's 9th is still my fave...

[Drasko]

It is a problem. I've noticed that with many of the great orchestras...they've become museums. We wanted to go to Dresden, explore the city, hear the Staatskapelle at the Semperoper but when I checked the schedule last year, absolutely nothing turned me on...not anything that compelled a long journey. Maybe next season.

Someone I know just booked tickets for Staatskapelle Dresden playing Bruckner's Die Nullte and Wagner's Liebesmahl in Frauenkirche under Minkowski this June.

That looks like interesting program to me.