Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Mirror Image]

I was disappointed in both, mostly because of the sonics. I remember the Israeli performance as slightly better.

That said, the only Resurrection I truly dislike is Abbado/VPO, which managed to make it a boring symphony.  And you have to work at  making M2 a bore.

Wow..I'll be sure not to listen to Abbado's 2nd. Both of Bernstein's are outstanding. This symphony, along with the 8th, don't get much play from me, but what would you say are your favorite performances of both of these symphonies?

[kishnevi]

Wow..I'll be sure not to listen to Abbado's 2nd. Both of Bernstein's are outstanding. This symphony, along with the 8th, don't get much play from me, but what would you say are your favorite performances of both of these symphonies?

Abbado/CSO is in fact a very good one. He did three recordings that I know of.  I hold his Lucerne one as merely average.
My overall favorite is probably Bernstein DG for the Second, and MTT/SFSO for the Eighth.

But I love both symphonies, and there are not many recordings of either I actively dislike.  I think I have close to fifty M2s, and the only real important difference among most of them is usually the sonics.

[Mirror Image]

Abbado/CSO is in fact a very good one. He did three recordings that I know of.  I hold his Lucerne one as merely average.
My overall favorite is probably Bernstein DG for the Second, and MTT/SFSO for the Eighth.

But I love both symphonies, and there are not many recordings of either I actively dislike.  I think I have close to fifty M2s, and the only real important difference among most of them is usually the sonics.

Okay, I think the Abbado 8th that I own is the CSO, so I'm in good shape, then. I'm not sure how many Mahler 2nd recordings my dad owns, but I'm sure it's close to yours.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Okay, I think the Abbado 8th that I own is the CSO, so I'm in good shape, then. I'm not sure how many Mahler 2nd recordings my dad owns, but I'm sure it's close to yours.

It's interesting to see that Abbado (already?!) is no longer being overrated, which was becoming a little ridiculous. I know when I fell off the hype-train, myself. Must have been his Berlin Mahler 6th, which I thought really wasn't very good. I first listened to the M2 from Lucerne before that, so maybe I was still enthralled un-objectively, but I found that -- and the Berlin Third -- quite good, actually. Also the inner movements of his Berlin 7th, which I think are as good as it gets. Also: there is only one Mahler 8th from Abbado, if I am not mistaken, and that's the live recording from Berlin.


Mahler, Symphony No.8
Claudio Abbado/Berlin Philharmonic
Cheryl Studer, Sylvia McNair, Andrea Rost,
A.S.von Otter, R.Lang, P.Seiffert, B.Terfel,
J.H.Rootering
DG

[ritter]

Also: there is only one Mahler 8th from Abbado, if I am not mistaken, and that's the live recording from Berlin.


Mahler, Symphony No.8
Claudio Abbado/Berlin Philharmonic
Cheryl Studer, Sylvia McNair, Andrea Rost,
A.S.von Otter, R.Lang, P.Seiffert, B.Terfel,
J.H.Rootering
DG

Indeed, that's the only one. He was going to perfom it in Lucerne in 2012 (IIRC), but then changed the program (to the Mozart Requiem plus some other piece). Friends of mine who are diehard "Abbadiani+Mahelrians" were rather upset about this, as they had already made plans to attend the festival.

Funnily, in some interview (I don't remember where, but I think it was a Spanish magazine) Abbado had to be reminded that he had recorded the work (even if it was a live concert), as he seemed to have no recollection of that. Yet another leading Mahlerian who apparently didn't care that much for the Eighth. 

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Funnily, in some interview (I don't remember where, but I think it was a Spanish magazine) Abbado had to be reminded that he had recorded the work (even if it was a live concert), as he seemed to have no recollection of that. Yet another leading Mahlerian who apparently didn't care that much for the Eigtht. 

Ouch! :-)

Indeed: Haitink, Abbado, I.Fischer, Boulez... who else? I can imagine Salonen not being a particular fan (but I haven't heard from him on the issue).

[Jay F]

Wow..I'll be sure not to listen to Abbado's 2nd. Both of Bernstein's are outstanding. This symphony, along with the 8th, don't get much play from me, but what would you say are your favorite performances of both of these symphonies?

I like this M2 by Abbado:

[asin]B00000E4D7[/asin].

Are both your Bernstein M2s with the NYPO? Those are favorites of mine, too. I didn't like his first CD release, recorded in Ely Cathedral with the LSO. The sound quality was the worst I'd heard since I began buying CDs, save the first release of the Rolling Stones CDs. Just digihorrible.

[kishnevi]

I like this M2 by Abbado:

[asin]B00000E4D7[/asin].

Are both your Bernstein M2s with the NYPO? Those are favorites of mine, too. I didn't like his first CD release, recorded in Ely Cathedral with the LSO. The sound quality was the worst I'd heard since I began buying CDs, save the first release of the Rolling Stones CDs. Just digihorrible.

That's the one I thought was the best by far of his three M2 recordings. It may be more easily available in this issue, with an above average M4
[asin]B000001GY5[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

I like this M2 by Abbado:

[asin]B00000E4D7[/asin].

Are both your Bernstein M2s with the NYPO? Those are favorites of mine, too. I didn't like his first CD release, recorded in Ely Cathedral with the LSO. The sound quality was the worst I'd heard since I began buying CDs, save the first release of the Rolling Stones CDs. Just digihorrible.

Yes, that's the Abbado I own and as I was reading some of the previous posts it seems this CSO performance is a good one and, now, you confirmed it. As for the Bernstein, yes, I own both of New York PO performances. I didn't realize he recorded an earlier one with the LSO. I'll be sure to stay clear of that one.

[Mirror Image]

Let me ask you guys a question: do you think Salonen likes Mahler's music?

Judge for yourself...

https://www.youtube.com/v/R-EjpcFv_wQ

I mean it's perfectly fine for anyone to not like Mahler. He's not for everyone of course, but I'm picking up some strange vibes from Salonen. Weirdest interview with Salonen I've ever seen. He's quite fidgety and seems quite nervous.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I mean it's perfectly fine for anyone to not like Mahler. He's not for everyone of course, but I'm picking up some strange vibes from Salonen. Weirdest interview with Salonen I've ever seen. He's quite fidgety and seems quite nervous.

I've found interviewing ESP quite difficult; Finnish people are not great at talking... at least not when they don't feel very comfortable with the vis-a-vis and/or are buzzed. But yes, in that interview, he also offered some pointed remarks on Mahler that suggested, at the least, that he's not an indiscriminate fanboy. But why would or should he be.

When do you get sick of Mahler?

Well, I'm not doing that much Mahler this year

You got it out of your system two years ago...

...I figured the world will be absolutely saturated with Mahler and I thought I'd try not to add to the pollution. 
I'm doing this [the Third in Leipzig and Dresden with the Staatskapelle] and then I'm doing the Second Symphony in London a year from now... and Number Six in Chicago. That's all.

But there can be too much Mahler...

Well... [seven seconds of silence] there cannot be too much music... good music, that's for sure. But sometimes these anniversaries have this kind of almost opposite effect... that the birthday boy, or the death-day boy, becomes sort of a monster that eats everything else on its path. And of course, ironically, Mahler is the one composer who doesn't need this kind of celebration, because his music is played all the time. He is perhaps the most popular composer in the repertoire at the moment – in many big metropolitan areas. So in a sense I would rather see lesser known but good, interesting, important composers celebrated. For whatever reason... so that their music would be lifted into the consciousness of the wider public. Mahler is doing just fine.

[Mirror Image]

I've found interviewing ESP quite difficult; Finnish people are not great at talking... at least not when they don't feel very comfortable with the vis-a-vis and/or are buzzed. But yes, in that interview, he also offered some pointed remarks on Mahler that suggested, at the least, that he's not an indiscriminate fanboy. But why would or should he be.

Well, my suspicions were correct then. I wonder why UE felt the need to interview someone who doesn't really like Mahler's music? I suppose they wanted to get a different perspective?

[André]

A very interesting interview ! And very plain, honest answers, too.

I don't think Mahler needs overanalysing and especially not the hand wringing, explosive type of performance sometimes heard.  That's why I particularly admire Haitink and Inbal in these works.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Well, my suspicions were correct then. I wonder why UE felt the need to interview someone who doesn't really like Mahler's music? I suppose they wanted to get a different perspective?

I guess EPS fancies himself a composer and probably feels jealous of Mahler. He did record a fabulous M3 with the LAPO on SONY.

[Jay F]

Let me ask you guys a question: do you think Salonen likes Mahler's music?

Judge for yourself...

https://www.youtube.com/v/R-EjpcFv_wQ

I mean it's perfectly fine for anyone to not like Mahler. He's not for everyone of course, but I'm picking up some strange vibes from Salonen. Weirdest interview with Salonen I've ever seen. He's quite fidgety and seems quite nervous.

I like his M3 very much. One of my favorites.

[Madiel]

I guess EPS fancies himself a composer

I guess conductors fancying themselves as composers has rather a strong precedent in this thread.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I guess conductors fancying themselves as composers has rather a strong precedent in this thread.

Except other than Lenny none of them are really all that interesting - other than Mahler of course.

[Madiel]

Except other than Lenny none of them are really all that interesting - other than Mahler of course.

I was referring to Mahler. I'm glad the irony at least partially caught up with you.

[PerfectWagnerite]

A very interesting interview ! And very plain, honest answers, too.

I agree. I do think he knows a lot of about Mahler and Mahler's music but approaches Mahler from a rather detached and not a personal way.

To call moments in the first movement of the 3rd and the the whole 2nd movement of the 7th as "incredibly banal" is rather incredulous. Banality in itself is a form of expression for Mahler.

A spontaneous and un-rehearsed interview.

[André]

Exactly. Not all conductors are in awe and tears before a Mahler score.

Actually, I suspect the vast majority do not "understand" Mahler in the sense that Barbirolli had in mind when he mentioned it took him years to understand one of the symphonies  (not "read it", he went on, but internalising its meaning and figuring a way to express it).

Salonen is so very right when, asked about Mahler's notation (innumerable markings), he mentions that Mahler did not trust interprets (probably did not expect them to "understand" his scores in the way that Barbirolli was referring to).

Consequently and by way of contrast, considering the 350%, or 1000%  increase in technical expertise (players and conductors) in the last 100  years, should we not be prepared to give some license to the interprets and trust our own feelings as listeners as to what constitutes a great interpretation of Mahler's music ? And of course accept and celebrate differing opinions  ?