Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Sergeant Rock]

Am I the only here who has heard Kondrashin's Mahler? It might be the fastest one, or close- only 65 minutes.

Yeah, 65:40 ...although he too omits the first movement exposition repeat (as does Szell, another Sixth that fits on one CD) which skews the results somewhat. Still, Kondrashin is definitely one of the speed demons (Andante 12:40, Finale 24:40).

Sarge

[Diletante]

Listened to the Seventh for the first time last night (from Sinopoli's cycle). Beauuuuuuutiful fourth movement! But I found the finale too noisy! My first impression is "I wish it had ended with the fourth movement". Let's see what happens after repeated hearings.

[jlaurson]

New Release update:

From Telos:

TLS 1001: Gustav Mahler, Des Knaben Wunderhorn, (World Premiere Recording), Diana Damrau, sopran, Iván Paley, baritone, Stephan Matthias Lademann, piano

[bhodges]

Last week, Alan Gilbert and the New York Philharmonic did the Mahler First in Central Park, but the end of the symphony was halted by torrential rains--pretty much the entire last movement, from what I heard.  As a coda to this concert interruptus, the orchestra has put up a recording of the piece that Gilbert did last May in Avery Fisher Hall, which got excellent reviews.  (I have not yet heard it, but friends who have say it's quite fine.) 

It's free and available through July 30 on the orchestra's website. 

www.nyphil.org

--Bruce

[Opus106]

Information much appreciated, Bruce.

[bhodges]

My pleasure. 

PS, just started listening to it now, and I must say, interpretive comments aside for now, the orchestra sounds fabulous.  Even the sometimes-maligned horn section is sounding great. 

--Bruce

[Lilas Pastia]

On a Mahler 3 roll last week. I listened to various recordings, trying to make up my mind as to what approach really 'worked' in this gigantic score. My conclusion is that vastly different interpretations can uncover riches and turn a convincing performance, as long as conviction and intensity are brought along in the mix.

First in the player was the notorious 1956 Mitropoulos NYPO. It's notorious because it's cut (first and last movements), it's breathtakingly fast in places (first two movements), and it's hallucinatorily intense troughout. Sound is ok once you get past the shock of hearing this kind of phone booth acoustic in music that calls for the widest sonic expanses. After hearing the others I kept comparing them to this one in my mind and found most of them wanting in exhilaration, a sense of wonder and sheer manic intensity.

Then I put Mitropoulos' final concert disc, hailing from Stuttgart (1960). He died a few days later. This is in mono, but very clear and wide ranging. It's generally considered 'the' Mitropoulos 3rd. I don't know by what criteria though. It's very well played but the stuttgarters don't hold a candle - by far - to the new yorkers in collective or individual virtuosity and intensity of utterance. The whole thing (uncut) sounds rather cautious, as if the orchestra were discovering the music for the first time - which may very well have been the case.  Tempi are rather weighty and tend to plod. A disappointment.

Third in line was Heinz Rögner's 1983 Berlin Radio Symphony version (Berlin Classics). Recorded in Berlin's Jesus-Christus Kirche, this boasts  phenomenal sonics. Huge depth of sound allied to crystal clear placement, unlimited dynamic range and uncluttered textures. It's easily the best *recording* of this symphony, and one of the best of anything I've heard. The orchestra is excellent and very confident. They don't boast the weigth and trenchancy the very best ensembles can bring, but they can't be faulted anywhere. This is the same orchestra used by Chailly in some of his Bruckner and Mahler recordings. Rögner is a sure-footed guide through the work's changing panoramas. His is not a discursive or rambling traversal by any means. There's a fine sense of continuity, but also a feeling everything is under safe control. But Rögner has a few quirky touches that put a stamp of originality on his POV. First, there is the posthorn solo in III. Unusually, this is not heard from a distance, but up close on a muted instrument. The effect is quite rustic, whereas the trend has been to beautify this part - understandably, as the player (usually a trumpetist) is in the spotlight and has a rare chance to wax lyrical with his instrument. Definitely individual. Second, in the beautiful contralto solo, his oboe player plays upward slides the likes of which I haven't heard anywhere else (although Chailly's Concertgebouw oboist comes close). This is ear popping stuff. The American Record Guide reviewer thought very negatively of these two 'effects', whereas I was delighted with the results. Lastly, after a relatively sober and unexceptional approach to tempos, Rögner takes the coda of VI in an exultant romp, producing an exciting sense of homecoming. The obverse side though is that this fast coda negates the expected feeling of nobility brought to the point of exaltation. Altogether, I found this version exceptional on purely aural grounds, excellent in terms of playing and quite original for its conducting. Currently available in its original format at BRO. It's been reissued in by Berlin Classics in a no frills cardboard gatefold, for twice the price.

Chailly and the Concertgebouw (2004) were next. This is an exceptional traversal from a purely orchestral standpoint, and the sound is quite jaw-dropping in its beauty and power. Note that the bass drum - and just about anything low-lying (winds or brass) have more presence and sound more natural in the Rögner Berlin version. Nonetheless, I found Chailly's very coherent version quite satisfying in its own right. There is a restraint that does not quite allow the music to take flight. The grotesque, swooning, exultant, inebriated character that form the very character of the first movement are held in symphonic check. The posthorn solo is beautifully played, as is the rest of the movement (the work's pivot IMO). Surprisingly, Chailly goes for the wide slides on the oboe counterpointing the alto's voice in IV. Once again, this is a startling effect, the more so since it's the first sign of conductorial quirkiness  since the work started over an hour ago. The pacing of the final Adagio is perfect. This Rolls-Royce of an orchestra cover themselves in glory in the final blaze of golden brass, firm and noble timpani poundings and lush, firm, vibrant bed of strings. Comfy and beautifully played and recorded, but not compelling enough.

I then turned the clock back some 35 years and went for Kubelik's classic rendering on DG. Confident and hugely characterful playing from the BRSO (listen to the sizzling onslaught of basses following the initial horn call in I - unreplicated anywhere, although the Berlin basses come close). Kubelik's is an urgent traversal of I, and he attends to its myriad mood changes without ever putting a foot wrong. This is an excellent version of the symphony until the contralto solo movement. Unfortunately Norma Procter's vocal intensity is of the wrong kind, producing edgy results where one would wish for an oasis of purity and beauty. The final movement is superb. The sound is very good, though quite light in the bass. Perfectly serviceable, but it pales in comparison to the gorgeous Berlin and Amsterdam.

As a final try I put on the Delos with Litton conducting the Dallas Symphony. This was taken from 4 live performances. The same cautiousness and application heard in Stuttgart are heard here, but in better sound. Overall Litton is a faithful guide through the score, but he doesn't reveal anything special. The contralto solo is ho-hum. Although at first hearing the sound appears to be commendably big and wide-ranging, it's also seriously unbalanced and tends to get cloudy here and there. For some reason the winds are heard way in the back, as if from far behind the rest of the orchestra. Not a good idea.

No cigars then, but a cigarillo to the gorgeous Rögner, the faithful and touching Kubelik, and the hyperintense, perverse NY Mitropoulos versions. Nobody should feel shortchanged with the Chailly Concertgebouw discs. You can't ask for a more glorious orchestral execution, captured in superb sound. It just lacks distinction and persuasion.

[jlaurson]

First in the player was the notorious 1956 Mitropoulos NYPO. It's notorious because it's cut (first and last movements), it's breathtakingly fast in places (first two movements), and it's hallucinatorily intense throughout.

You're not hallucinating. It really _is_ sung in English.

[Drasko]

Then I put Mitropoulos' final concert disc, hailing from Stuttgart (1960). He died a few days later. This is in mono, but very clear and wide ranging. It's generally considered 'the' Mitropoulos 3rd. I don't know by what criteria though. It's very well played but the stuttgarters don't hold a candle - by far - to the new yorkers in collective or individual virtuosity and intensity of utterance. The whole thing (uncut) sounds rather cautious, as if the orchestra were discovering the music for the first time - which may very well have been the case.  Tempi are rather weighty and tend to plod. A disappointment.

Ask Hurwitz, that is his point of view. For me it is ok but far too straight forward for Mitropoulos, perhaps reflecting his poor health at time of performance. There is part of it I quite like though, the bim-bams. He somehow makes that movement sound uncharacteristically dark and ominous instead like usual chirpy annoyance.

[Lilas Pastia]

Speaking of bim-bams, the NY performance is not only sung in English, but by women alone. Not a boy within earshot ! This is from the broadcast performance, a 90 minute program with spoken introduction. Hence the cuts. There were 3 subsequent performances that week of April 1956, none cut. I wish one of these had been recorded instead.

This reviewer and this one have an opinion opposite to Hurwitz' or Chakwin (from ARG). Which is ok. Mahler opinions tend to run strong and are subject to overemphasis.

[MishaK]

Lilas, have you ever listened to Haitink/CSO or Martinon/CSO in Mahler 3?

[Sergeant Rock]

Lilas, have you ever listened to Haitink/CSO or Martinon/CSO in Mahler 3?

Or Levine/CSO, one of my favorite M3s

Sarge

[eyeresist]

Listened to the Seventh for the first time last night (from Sinopoli's cycle). Beauuuuuuutiful fourth movement! But I found the finale too noisy! My first impression is "I wish it had ended with the fourth movement". Let's see what happens after repeated hearings.

That finale is in its way the biggest "shock" in Mahler   I think of the 7th as the most childish and innocent symphony (even more than the 4th), and the finale should really be just flat-out fun.

[not edward]

That finale is in its way the biggest "shock" in Mahler   I think of the 7th as the most childish and innocent symphony (even more than the 4th), and the finale should really be just flat-out fun.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this view of the work. To me, part of the greatness of the 7th is that it can be successfully played in almost any way you care. (If you can find a copy of Hermann Scherchen conducting the Toronto Symphony Orchestra in the Canadian premiere of the work, you can even hear the finale being played as a wild ride into Hell.)

[Lilas Pastia]

I haven't listened to the Martinon, Haitink or Levine 3rds (the CSO ones). ARG had great things to say about the Haitink, and both the Martinon and Levine are among their staple recommendations. The others I've heard (used to have) are the Haitink Amsterdam, LSO Horenstein, Bernstein DG, Abbado VPO (DG). I have heard the Boulez DG and Bernstein Sony only once, not enough to form an opinion.

[DavidRoss]

In the past few days I've listened to three 3rds--Sinopoli/Philharmonia, MTT/SFS, and Abbado/WP--and loved each of them.  This used to be my least loved of the nine, along with the 8th, but I have come to love it right along with the rest (still working on the 8th, however  ).  Think I'll be spinning Boulez, Kubelik, Salonen next, then Bernstein while I seek a copy of the Rögner recording Lilias liked so much. 

[Lilas Pastia]

David, the Rögner is available on BRO. If it's gone, PM me  .

I, too, have some trouble with the 8th. Along with 1 and 7, I sometimes am in its thrall, sometimes can't listen through to the end.

[Häuschen]

Last week, Alan Gilbert and the New York Philharmonic did the Mahler First in Central Park, but the end of the symphony was halted by torrential rains--pretty much the entire last movement, from what I heard.  As a coda to this concert interruptus, the orchestra has put up a recording of the piece that Gilbert did last May in Avery Fisher Hall, which got excellent reviews.  (I have not yet heard it, but friends who have say it's quite fine.) 

It's free and available through July 30 on the orchestra's website. 

www.nyphil.org

--Bruce

And follow along with Mahler's annotated score!  Incredible!  Thanks for the link.

[MDL]

Mahler 10 was performed by the Leipzig Gewandhaus under Chailly at the Proms on Monday 7/9/09. Despite a surprising number of flubs from the brass, it was a beautiful performance. I'd never heard the LGO in the flesh before and they made a gorgeous sound.

But Chailly had a big surprise in store. At the very end of the fourth movement, and throughout the finale, the single drum thwacks were replaced by a triplet figure (ba-ba-bum). It was actually extremely effective, I thought, but I've never heard the drum strokes played that way in any other performance, and I've got at least half a dozen recordings of various completions.

Has this been tried by any other conductor?

[secondwind]

Listening to Mahler's 6th this week.  I'm not that familiar with Mahler.  Now I'm a bit worried.  Is Mahler addictive?  I found myself listening to the 2nd movement repeatedly for a couple of days, and now I feel compelled to do that with the other movements in turn.