Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[DavidW]

Where is that list of names? I voted for a few and was asked whether I wanted my name included and I explicitly told them 'no' and asked to be removed.

It's in the liner notes.  If you PM me your name I could check to see if it's in there or not tonight when I'm home.

[Brahmsian]

Don't be hatin' on American Idol!

I could take that show more seriously if they actually represented the broad spectrum of music, not just pop and country. 

[DavidW]

I could take that show more seriously if they actually represented the broad spectrum of music, not just pop and country. 

Hey Ray, do you guys have Canadian Idol?

[Brahmsian]

Hey Ray, do you guys have Canadian Idol?

Yup, and I've never, ever watched it. 

[Parsifal]

My name is in the CD booklet because I chose to vote. Did I think the results would be a revelation of originality? No. Some of the recordings I voted for are consensus good or great performances, but none of the unusual ones I liked made it to the set. A few of the recordings that made it are a bit overrated, imho (ALWAYS a subjective opinion, no matter who you are), but it's a solid 'safe' collection. I really only voted because I'm a Mahler freak and it's kind of fun to know my name is part of a DG collection, however minor my contribution may have been.

[MishaK]

They should have allowed people to vote only after actually listening to *all* the performances on the site.

[Scarpia]

Is there a good collection of all of Mahler's orchestral songs?  I have more symphonies that I know what to do with, but a collection of songs would fill some gaps.

[kishnevi]

Is there a good collection of all of Mahler's orchestral songs?  I have more symphonies that I know what to do with, but a collection of songs would fill some gaps.

Like the symphonies, there's too many options.
Des Knaben Wunderhorn--my favorite is the one with Fischer Dieskau and Schwarzkopf, followed by D F-D doing it all on his own, with Barenboim and the BPO.  That comes (in my copy at least, which is a fairly old one) with  the Wayfarer songs.  I haven't heard the relatively recent ones by Boulez, Thomas and Hampson.
Wayfarer/Kindertotenlieder/Ruckert Lieder--my favorite is Hampson conducted by Bernstein, and Baker conducted by Barbirolli.   But there's also Boulez conducting Quasthoff, von Otter and Urmana in one cycle
each.
Das Lied von der Erde--you're on your own there. 
There is this one, which omits the Ruckert Lieder.


And although you asked about orchestral songs,  don't forget about Christian Gerharer's two CDs of the piano versions (or in the case of Kindertotenlieder, Schonberg's arrangment for chamber ensemble).

[DavidRoss]

I'll second Baker/Barbirolli.  For DKW I like recent Chailly/Bonney/Goerne.  DLVDE--The classic for me is Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich, but Boulez/Urmana/Schade and MTT/Hampson/Skelton are strong contenders.

[Jay F]

Has anyone noticed a strange technical flaw in Abbado's first version of Mahler's Symphony No. 9? I recently bought the 1995 box set, and have become captivated by this version of the 9th with the Vienna Philharmonic.

However, I'm noticing the strangest technical glitch I've ever found on a CD. Instead of being divided into four tracks, one per movement, the 9th Symphony is broken into 31 separate tracks. And on more than one occasion, the volume goes up or down for no apparent reason as one track gives way to the next.

In Movement 1, volume goes down as track marked "Schattenhaft" fades into track marked "Etwas Fliessender."

In Mov. 3, the volume goes down as "Clarinets" passes into "Tempo 1, Subito."

In Mov. 4, volume goes up as "A Tempo" passes into "Stets Sehr Gehalten," then back down again as "Stets Sehr Gehalten" transitions into "Fliessender, Doch Durchaus Nicht Eilend."

Has anyone else noticed this, either in this set or in the original CD from the 1980s?

It's a wonderful performance, maybe my favorite. What a shame it's marred by this technical flaw.

[DavidRoss]

No (don't have it), but I love Diebenkorn. 

[Jay F]

No (don't have it), but I love Diebenkorn. 

Isn't Diebenkorn wonderful? I love his Ocean Park series.

http://www.google.com/search?q=diebenkorn+ocean+park&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=s9E&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=AUT1Tf2BH8LVgQegqsnOCw&ved=0CBkQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=724

[DavidRoss]

Isn't Diebenkorn wonderful? I love his Ocean Park series.

http://www.google.com/search?q=diebenkorn+ocean+park&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=s9E&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=AUT1Tf2BH8LVgQegqsnOCw&ved=0CBkQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=724

Yeah yeah!  Nice collection of jpegs!  Are you from the Bay Area?

[Scarpia]

Like the symphonies, there's too many options.
Des Knaben Wunderhorn--my favorite is the one with Fischer Dieskau and Schwarzkopf, followed by D F-D doing it all on his own, with Barenboim and the BPO.  That comes (in my copy at least, which is a fairly old one) with  the Wayfarer songs.  I haven't heard the relatively recent ones by Boulez, Thomas and Hampson.
Wayfarer/Kindertotenlieder/Ruckert Lieder--my favorite is Hampson conducted by Bernstein, and Baker conducted by Barbirolli.   But there's also Boulez conducting Quasthoff, von Otter and Urmana in one cycle
each.
Das Lied von der Erde--you're on your own there. 
There is this one, which omits the Ruckert Lieder.


And although you asked about orchestral songs,  don't forget about Christian Gerharer's two CDs of the piano versions (or in the case of Kindertotenlieder, Schonberg's arrangment for chamber ensemble).

Thanks for the helpful comments!

Getting these pieces is a confusing enterprise since some can be sung by male or female voices.

DLvDE I have covered by Barenboim/CSO/Meier/Jerusalem and Karajan/Ludwig/Kollo, perhaps some others, I've  lost track of which Mahler cycles include DLvDE.

Dieder eines fahrende Gessellen by Fischer-Dieskau/Kubelik and Baker/Barbirolli

Knaben Wunderhorn by Fischer/Dieskay/Schwartz/Szell

Kindertotenlieder by Ferrier/Walter, Baker/Barbirolli and Karajan/Ludwig

Ruckert Lieder by Karajan/Ludwig and Baker/Barbirolli

The only one I do not have at all is Das Klangende Lied, and I'm trying to decide between Chailly and Tilson-Thomas.  I'm leaning towards Chailly because it is on a 2-fer which has various other bits of Mahler Lieder.  I also think another Knaben Wunderhorn may be in order and I think that Haitink collection, which will fill the gap an give good coverage of other pieces.

[Jay F]

Yeah yeah!  Nice collection of jpegs!  Are you from the Bay Area?

No, I live in Pittsburgh, PA. Grew up in NJ. Lived in Ocean Park once, though.

[Marc]

[....]
One of the things I like about the Seventh is it is a very hard piece to reduce to cheap program talk. "When Mahler was writing this he was feeling X." You see this a lot, also on this thread, people who seem to have direct access to Mahler's thoughts and feelings and being able to put them in a few words, whereas Mahler himself needed hundreds of pages of music for it.

IMHO, it's simply impossible to put music into words in a really satisfying way. Period.

So, in that case, I could describe this board as being useless.

Most people here are writing about their own thoughts and feelings, I guess. In general I'm not unhappy about the fact that their attributions don't last HUNDREDs of pages.

Problem with Mahler and his music is: he himself also used HUNDREDs of pages and efforts to describe in words what his music meant, wanting both to be iconoclastic and understood, adding programs and explanations, then withdrawing them or adding them again, changing movements, writing exhaustively in letters and talking to friends and foes about what his music meant, et cetera and et al.
In a way, with all his struggling to find the right notes for the right feelings, thoughts & descriptions and vice versa, I feel that Mahler himself has proven that music is a language of its own, and that he has invited us all to struggle and experience the same. Hence this thread of more than one HUNDRED pages.

[DavidRoss]

No, I live in Pittsburgh, PA. Grew up in NJ. Lived in Ocean Park once, though.

So is that where you learned to love Diebenkorn?

[jlaurson]

Thanks for the helpful comments!
The only one I do not have at all is Das Klangende Lied, and I'm trying to decide between Chailly and Tilson-Thomas.  I'm leaning towards Chailly because it is on a 2-fer which has various other bits of Mahler Lieder.  I also think another Knaben Wunderhorn may be in order and I think that Haitink collection, which will fill the gap an give good coverage of other pieces.

I don't know off the top of my head... but I seem to ... wait, no... yes... both of those performances are of the THREE-part "Klagende Lied".  (Part 1 was suppressed by Mahler, but whereas his last wishes seem to be the overriding argument in matters Sixth Symphony, here they are cast aside and the 3-part version is now the only one performed & recorded.) In any case, Chailly is superior... and the added Wunderhorn (3), Ruecker (5), Wayfarer (4) and Kindertoten-lieder (all 5, that being Mahler's only actual cycle) with Fassbaender are very, very good.

Not half bad is the disc with Masur / Gewandhaus and Suitner / StaKap Berlin on Berlin Classics where Siegfried Lorenz sings the Kindertotenlieder, Wayfarer 1-4, Rueckert, and four Wunderhorn Lieder. And by "not half bad" I mean: Overlooked, different, excellent, cheap.



Mahler
Orchestral Songs
Siegfried Lorenz
K.Masur, O.Suitner
Berlin Classics

[Jay F]

So is that where you learned to love Diebenkorn?

No, actually, I knew someone who owned an art gallery in NY who had some of his paintings. I used to go to NY galleries and the museums a lot when I was younger.

[Scarpia]

I don't know off the top of my head... but I seem to ... wait, no... yes... both of those performances are of the THREE-part "Klagende Lied".  (Part 1 was suppressed by Mahler, but whereas his last wishes seem to be the overriding argument in matters Sixth Symphony, here they are cast aside and the 3-part version is now the only one performed & recorded.) In any case, Chailly is superior... and the added Wunderhorn (3), Ruecker (5), Wayfarer (4) and Kindertoten-lieder (all 5, that being Mahler's only actual cycle) with Fassbaender are very, very good.

Not half bad is the disc with Masur / Gewandhaus and Suitner / StaKap Berlin on Berlin Classics where Siegfried Lorenz sings the Kindertotenlieder, Wayfarer 1-4, Rueckert, and four Wunderhorn Lieder. And by "not half bad" I mean: Overlooked, different, excellent, cheap.



Mahler
Orchestral Songs
Siegfried Lorenz
K.Masur, O.Suitner
Berlin Classics

Thanks for the interesting comments!