Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[sheffmark]

Bernstein's Mahler Symphonies Cycle is almost near perfection, it contains many of the most thrilling, beautiful performances of Mahler's works I've ever heard. Same speech for Das Lied von der Erde, such a powerful, brilliant interpretation. I agree you can't certainly get wrong with this set.

Thanks for the advice Lisztianwagner!!
If you all recommend it,it must be good!!

[jlaurson]

Wow!!!!!
I'll have to take a month off work to read that! Ha-Ha!!
Thanks for the links!!

More than half of the links in your quote (which is to say: mine, before I just altered them) are faulty. Adjusted links in my original post above.
Graphics unfortunately missing from the WETA column... 

[sheffmark]

More than half of the links in your quote (which is to say: mine, before I just altered them) are faulty. Adjusted links in my original post above.
Graphics unfortunately missing from the WETA column... 

Ok, no problem!
Still plenty of reading stiil to browse through!

[eyeresist]

Thanks for that!
Is this the Bernstein set?
Reviews are pretty good!

Are you a Bernstein Booster?

Once again I am persuaded that Madaboutmahler and Lisztianwagner are pretty much the same person

Symphony #3, Mvt. 1. Rattle/C.B.S.O./Birgirt Remmert (mezzo), 1997

You forgot to rate this one. I think it's good. Certainly has great sound.

[kishnevi]

Are you a Bernstein Booster?

Once again I am persuaded that Madaboutmahler and Lisztianwagner are pretty much the same person


You forgot to rate this one. I think it's good. Certainly has great sound.

...whereas (again, chaconne a son gout obviously applies here)  I think Rattle's is the worst performance of the 3rd I've heard.  He manages to make everything boring....

I do think Jens hit the mark in comparing the EMI and DG boxes--EMI has some historically interesting performances, but DG has the better ones, overall.  And the EMI box depends heavily on Rattle, so if you don't like Rattle,  you'll be in trouble.  (To be clear, that Third is the only Rattle Mahler performance I don't like.)  I think the DG box is worth the price being asked, actually, although of course it's a good deal more than I paid when it came out, and that fifty quid difference from the EMI set does make the EMI set a very rational choice.

[eyeresist]

...whereas (again, chaconne a son gout obviously applies here)  I think Rattle's is the worst performance of the 3rd I've heard.  He manages to make everything boring....

I do think Jens hit the mark in comparing the EMI and DG boxes--EMI has some historically interesting performances, but DG has the better ones, overall.  And the EMI box depends heavily on Rattle, so if you don't like Rattle,  you'll be in trouble.  (To be clear, that Third is the only Rattle Mahler performance I don't like.)  I think the DG box is worth the price being asked, actually, although of course it's a good deal more than I paid when it came out, and that fifty quid difference from the EMI set does make the EMI set a very rational choice.

I'd say both the boxes (actually I think there are two slightly different DG boxes) are a mixed bunch, and unless you're an absolute beginner, you'd be better off buying recordings individually.

Re Rattle, his 3rd is the only one of his Bournemouth Mahler recordings I like (though 8 has its moments). For a really boring 3rd, you can't beat Bertini! That's the only one that has me crying "Oh God" and switching it off. He just drags out the tempos beyond (my) endurance.

[kishnevi]

I'd say both the boxes (actually I think there are two slightly different DG boxes) are a mixed bunch, and unless you're an absolute beginner, you'd be better off buying recordings individually.

Re Rattle, his 3rd is the only one of his Bournemouth Mahler recordings I like (though 8 has its moments). For a really boring 3rd, you can't beat Bertini! That's the only one that has me crying "Oh God" and switching it off. He just drags out the tempos beyond (my) endurance.

DG issued a symphonies only box called "The People's Mahler"  which ended being mostly DG best sellers that would mostly likely appeal only to a "beginner" in Mahler.  I bought both boxes, and some of them duplicated recordings I have, but the largest batch of duplications was in the EMI box. 

But you're probably right about the invidivual recordings, but the box is also good for a completist.  How many times have Mahler's early early songs been recorded?  And while not lacking the catalog, recordings of Klagende Lied and the Piano Quartet movement are not exactly numerous.  (And both sets scant Mahler's contribution to Die Drie Pintos, and make no attempt to cover his transcriptions of otherr composers--no Bach Suite, for instance.)

As for Bertini's Third--I don't remember it being that bad.  But the Third is my least favorite Mahler, and I seem to remember Bertini's timing were on the long side.   My favorites to date in the Third are Zinman and Gergiev.

[Opus106]

Once again I am persuaded that Madaboutmahler and Lisztianwagner are pretty much the same person

For the first few days I assumed that MI, m-a-m and LW were one and the same person.

(Sheff)Mark,
          I haven't gone through the links that Jens has provided, so I don't know if he's already mentioned it there, but a couple of years ago, the Bernstein cycle from DG was re-(re-re-?)released, and it's much cheaper than the earlier incarnation.

[asin]B0033QC0WY[/asin]

[Lisztianwagner]

Once again I am persuaded that Madaboutmahler and Lisztianwagner are pretty much the same person

For the first few days I assumed that MI, m-a-m and LW were one and the same person.

Hahaha, really??

No, Daniel and I are two distinct persons; but that's true that our taste often coincides as we have quite a few favourite composers in common. Gustav Mahler is one of them.

[madaboutmahler]

From what i gather,some people find it difficult to get into Mahler's music straight away.
He seems to be a composer that grows on people (if at all) then they are a commited admirer of him and his work.
I've only heard smphony No4 and No5 but i do like what i've heard so far.
I don't know how far removed Tchaikovsky,Bach and Debussy (I've got recordings of these composers) are from Mahler but i like all i've heard so far.
I'm very,very new to this kind of music so i can easily get lost in the complexities of it but i appreciate the help from fellow forumers!

Yes, some people after many years of listening to music find it hard to enjoy Mahler still. And some people never enjoy Mahler in their listening lives.... so we are the lucky ones! And yes, once you start listening to Mahler, he definitely grows on you. Here is a quote from a short biography about Mahler which I like, which explains it a little more:

'It is hard to think of a composer who arouses equal loyalty. The worship of Mahler amounts almost to a religion... Mahler's music stirs something imbedded in the subconscious and his admirers approach him mystically.'



It is great to hear that you are enjoying Mahler so far. Please continue to update us with how your Mahler journey goes!

And yes, the other box set that Navneeth points out is the better option, the same great performances, but cheaper.
Hope you have a nice day, Mark!

Are you a Bernstein Booster?

Once again I am persuaded that Madaboutmahler and Lisztianwagner are pretty much the same person

Hahaha, really??

No, Daniel and I are two distinct persons; but that's true that our taste often coincides as we have quite a few favourite composers in common. Gustav Mahler is one of them.

haha

[Karl Henning]

[asin]B0033QC0WY[/asin]

That is a wonderfully amusing cover!

[Opus106]

That is a wonderfully amusing cover!

Triple-X-L all the way!

[kishnevi]

And yes, the other box set that Navneeth points out is the better option, the same great performances, but cheaper.

The newer box set doesn't have everything in the earlier more expensive set--it leaves out the song cycles including DLvdE;  you'll need to buy those as individual CDs, although even with that supplement,  it will come out less expensive.    The three shorter song cycles, sung by Thomas Hampson,  among which is what I think of as the best performance of the Ruckert Lieder in existence,  are part of the complete DG box we were discussing yesterday. (Come to think of it, I don't have the Wunderhorn performance from that cycle, and have no idea about its availability.  Must check into it.)   Most people think highly of the DLvdE, which features King and Fischer Dieskau, and I am among them.

There is a third alternative for the DG Bernstein:  a set of three smaller boxes in DG's "Leonard Bernstein Collector's Edition, which split more or less into early, middle and late Mahler,  and contain all the symphonies and song cycles.  It's been some time since I checked on availability and pricing (like two or three years ago), but at that time at least you could get the three smaller boxes for slightly less than the complete bigger box.

And of course that still leaves you with the need to acquire at some point Bernstein's first Mahler cycle, now on Sony (available as a budget box), and the DG/Unitel DVD cycle, which presents yet another series of performances given about ten years before those on the DG CD cycle.

And finally, there's a  recording of the Ninth which Bernstein made with the Berlin Philharmonic--famous as the only time he conducted that orchestra--also on DG and which I think is ruined by audience noise.

Are there any other individual Bernstein Mahler recordings floating around ?

ETA--almost forgot that at point prior to issuing the FedEx covered box,  DG issued a symphonies only box set at some point.  No idea of its availability.

[jlaurson]

The newer box set doesn't have everything in the earlier more expensive set--it leaves out the song cycles including DLvdE;  you'll need to buy those as individual CDs, although even with that supplement,  it will come out less expensive.    The three shorter song cycles, sung by Thomas Hampson,  among which is what I think of as the best performance of the Ruckert Lieder in existence,  are part of the complete DG box we were discussing yesterday. (Come to think of it, I don't have the Wunderhorn performance from that cycle, and have no idea about its availability.  Must check into it.)   Most people think highly of the DLvdE, which features King and Fischer Dieskau, and I am among them.

There is a third alternative for the DG Bernstein:  a set of three smaller boxes in DG's "Leonard Bernstein Collector's Edition, which split more or less into early, middle and late Mahler,  and contain all the symphonies and song cycles.  It's been some time since I checked on availability and pricing (like two or three years ago), but at that time at least you could get the three smaller boxes for slightly less than the complete bigger box.

And of course that still leaves you with the need to acquire at some point Bernstein's first Mahler cycle, now on Sony (available as a budget box), and the DG/Unitel DVD cycle, which presents yet another series of performances given about ten years before those on the DG CD cycle.

And finally, there's a  recording of the Ninth which Bernstein made with the Berlin Philharmonic--famous as the only time he conducted that orchestra--also on DG and which I think is ruined by audience noise.

Are there any other individual Bernstein Mahler recordings floating around ?

ETA--almost forgot that at point prior to issuing the FedEx covered box,  DG issued a symphonies only box set at some point.  No idea of its availability.

The Bernstein Ninth with Berlin is usually berated for the trombone section falling asleep and entering wildly late. Audience noise is less a problem. That flub, though massive by modern performance standards (the BPh wasn't very used to Mahler then... Barbirolli had basically (re) introduced Mahler to them), is overrated. As is the performance. (The only time Karajan allowed Bernstein to conduct/record 'his' BPh.)

The DVD cycle is very skippable, too... Like the DG CD cycle, but less of everything, including quality. There are more important Mahler performances to be had before one needs a third Bernstein cycle.

DLvdE with King & FD is da bomb, though. (And that work - never scrutinized and edited by Mahler, due to untimely death - can use all the help it can get.)

You should't get the idea that Bernstein's is the only way to do Mahler, though. He is, however, emblematic of one very important aspect of the school of Mahler-conducting: Either you re-compose the music as you conduct it (as did Bernstein, who might have felt he was the second coming of Mahler), or you 'just play the notes'*. The first two cycles ever made (Kubelik and Bernstein/New York) not only outline that dual-alternative approach, they still represent some of the best examples ever entered into the increasingly competitive Mahler-race. Especially Kubelik is a genius in the way he can 'leave the notes alone', yet never make anything sound boring.

That said, I wouldn't try to discover Mahler by way of boxed set at all... I would do it one-symphony-at-a-time... very slowly. Otherwise the intensity doesn't come across as easily... and Mahler needs to that to work his devious, unhealthy magic. (Unhealthy? This is why: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,683.msg593033.html#msg593033)

*he questions are for Thielemann and include: "What's your relationship with Mahler"? "Why do you ask that?" CT shoots back, moodily. "Uh, oh... professional curiosity?" stumbles the journalist half cowed, half defiant. "Well, I have a troubled relationship with Mahler's music. But then you knew that, which is why you asked, no?" Touché. But what follows changes the mood in the room completely. "Mahler's music lends itself most to those conductors" Thielemann reflects, "who know how to hold back, who are good at understatement. That doesn't exactly accommodate my conducting style; I've not been terribly successful at that yet. The music of Mahler is already so full of effects, if you are tempted to add anything, you only make it worse. I admire those conductors who achieve that certain noblesse—which is what I desire to achieve, eventually. Not always to enhance something. I'm currently trying to wean myself off that in Strauss, actually..." Thielemann thus continues a solid three minutes on his fallibility as a conductor in Mahler, about trying to break habits and improving—a touching, beautifully honest moment... from
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/03/mahler-cycle-and-uncomfortable-silence.html

[kishnevi]

1) DG issued a single DVD with one movement from each of the symphonies (no song cycles or DLvdE) that might make a decent stand in for the entire set.
2) Since I discovered Mahler one work at a time, in a very scattered fashion,  I can't disagree that one at a time is the way to go.  But if there is a "beginner's boxset",  I'd suggest Inbal.  If not Inbal, then probably anyone except Bernstein--and the first (Sony) Bernstein cycle before the DG cycle.

[Cato]

Allow me to suggest another set of older recordings, but still with great sound:

[Karl Henning]

The Bernstein Ninth with Berlin is usually berated for the trombone section falling asleep and entering wildly late.

Just the sort of [in]activity which preserves the trombonists' notoriety. Which is how they like it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Papy Oli]

12 things that Daniel should not do with his hammer :

http://youtu.be/qTloV4Bn10I

[madaboutmahler]

12 things that Daniel should not do with his hammer :

http://youtu.be/qTloV4Bn10I

haha  I love that video, it has made me laugh every time I have seen it!
Highly recommended to anyone who has not seen it yet! Thanks for sharing, Olivier!

[Opus106]

http://www.mediafire.com/?cfomd80b712810u

A performance of No. 1 by the RCO with Bernstein, from '87 -- the only recording that's vanished from http://kco.radio4.nl/?lang=en.