Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Jay F]

Restoring the Mahler Survey, post-by-post:

Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.2 (Part 1)




Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.2 (Part 2)

Thanks, Jens. I am now contemplating buying the Boulez box set.

[jlaurson]

Restoring the Mahler Survey, post-by-post:

Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.2 (Part 1)




Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.2 (Part 2)

Thanks, Jens. I am now contemplating buying the Boulez box set.

You could do worse! I think it's probably one of the best sets -- as it contains only one true dud, the 8th. And you know where to go for the 8th, right? :-)

[Ken B]

Thanks, Jens. I am now contemplating buying the Boulez box set.


You could do worse! I think it's probably one of the best sets -- as it contains only one true dud, the 8th. And you know where to go for the 8th, right? :-)

To hell, where it plays continuously.

[jlaurson]

To hell, where it plays continuously.

 

[Moonfish]

Restoring the Mahler Survey, post-by-post:

Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.2 (Part 1)

Great posts (1 & 2) on Mahler's 2nd symphony, Jens! Interesting reading as always! Thanks!   

[PerfectWagnerite]

You could do worse! I think it's probably one of the best sets -- as it contains only one true dud, the 8th. And you know where to go for the 8th, right? :-)

Did David Hurwitz help write that review? Review is long but actual substance can be summed up in about 2 sentences. The rest of the review is just personally opinions with no facts included whatsoever.

[Jay F]

And you know where to go for the 8th, right? :-)

I just ordered the CD. I had it on LP years ago. It may have been pressed on defective vinyl, or ruined on a bad turntable setup before I bought it (used), but for non-musical reasons, it was unlistenable. My favorite M8s include Bernstein (Sony), Sinopoli, and Abbado, and I have never understood why Solti's is adored, cherished and revered, so this may be one I like.

I chose to buy Boulez' M2 only, not the box set. I bought his 6 and 7 when they came out, and they became discs I gave to friends who would otherwise have been Mahler-less. The Second is one I can listen to no matter who's conducting/performing. It's kind of like pizza and sex: even when it's not great, it's still pretty good.

Thanks again, Jens.

[jlaurson]

I chose to buy Boulez' M2 only, not the box set. I bought his 6 and 7 when they came out, and they became discs I gave to friends who would otherwise have been Mahler-less. The Second is one I can listen to no matter who's conducting/performing. It's kind of like pizza and sex: even when it's not great, it's still pretty good.

Thanks again, Jens.

Funny... I think those are particularly strong w/Boulez. The Sixth over-all and all-over... and the Seventh for delivering the (second)most Meistersingerish Finale I know on disc. (After or alongside Klemperer; I've also heard it just that way with Nezet Seguin.)

Boulez M7 live: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/01/ionarts-at-large-boulez-mahler-in.html
Boulez M7 DG: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/08/gustav-mahler-symphony-no7-part-1.html
(Boulez M6: yet to be revived for ionarts.)

Did David Hurwitz help write that review? Review is long but actual substance can be summed up in about 2 sentences. The rest of the review is just personally opinions with no facts included whatsoever.

I need no one's help when it comes to writing insubstantial, opinionated reviews devoid of facts whatsoever, thankyouverymuch!

[Pat B]

Did David Hurwitz help write that review? Review is long but actual substance can be summed up in about 2 sentences. The rest of the review is just personally opinions with no facts included whatsoever.

Music reviews do tend to involve the authors' opinions.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Review is long but actual substance can be summed up in about 2 sentences.

That probably means Wagner wrote it. 

[Cato]

Funny... I think those are particularly strong w/Boulez. The Sixth over-all and all-over... and the Seventh for delivering the (second)most Meistersingerish Finale I know on disc. (After or alongside Klemperer; I've also heard it just that way with Nezet Seguin.)

The Sixth under Boulez has an ever increasing tension and power which explode in the final movement.  The Seventh under him will make you think of Webern during the Nachtmusik movements.

[Ken B]

Boulez ...  The Seventh under him will make you think of Webern during the Nachtmusik movements.

Hell no. Boulez's Seventh is great!

[Cato]

Hell no. Boulez's Seventh is great!

Heh-heh!  I also heard part of a broadcast of Boulez conducting the Seventh with the Chicago Symphony, and it maybe even surpassed his DGG recording, at least for the 15 minutes I heard.

[MishaK]

Heh-heh!  I also heard part of a broadcast of Boulez conducting the Seventh with the Chicago Symphony, and it maybe even surpassed his DGG recording, at least for the 15 minutes I heard.

Since I was at that concert I'm just gonna say that it did. 

[Madiel]

Music reviews do tend to involve the authors' opinions.

Yes, I did rather wonder myself exactly which facts were supposed to be included. Things like "there are 9 numbered symphonies"?

[amw]

Yes, I did rather wonder myself exactly which facts were supposed to be included. Things like "there are 9 numbered symphonies"?

"This recording is a CD. It is made of shiny plastic. When placed into a machine capable of reading it, the machine will produce sounds similar to a Mahler symphony. Mahler is currently a skeleton, but was formerly a human being who lived in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. At a certain point prior to writing this symphony, he was a baby."

Of course, you would need to provide citations for all those claims, but that's definitely a start

[Madiel]

"This is Symphony No.2. It was written after Symphony No.1 but before Symphonies 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9."

Of course, with some composers you might not actually get away with that kind of statement...

[MishaK]

Yes, I did rather wonder myself exactly which facts were supposed to be included. Things like "there are 9 numbered symphonies"?

Well, whether something is played in tune, together, rhythmically as indicated in the score, properly balanced so all voices are audible, phrased as indicated in the score, etc. these are factual statements that can be made without getting into subjective issues.

[Madiel]

Well, whether something is played in tune, together, rhythmically as indicated in the score, properly balanced so all voices are audible, phrased as indicated in the score, etc. these are factual statements that can be made without getting into subjective issues.

I doubt that all of those things are as objective as you think. I've been reading a fair few reviews of both Shostakovich and Mahler in the last week, and it's perfectly possible to get one reviewer saying that the playing isn't polished enough and another reviewer saying it's great that the playing has the passion and drama the music needs, about the exact same performance. One reviewer might complain that the horns go out of tune a bit when they're fortissimo, another reviewer might delight in the same thing because it conveys the ugliness they think the composer was trying to depict. We don't actually have a universally shared agreement about what's important to the quality of a performance of a given work.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I think we had a conversation very much along these lines in a blind listening test (possibly Ravel's Gaspard de la nuit?) because the things you were looking for were almost exactly the opposite of the things I was looking for. Our conceptions of what the music needed were poles apart.

[knight66]

I used the link that Jens provided to his review of the Mahler 8 conducted by Ozawa. I have almost nothing by him; so the claim that this is THE best 8th available raised my eyebrows. I have quite a few sets, including many of the ones mentioned. In addition I have the Wyn Morris and live Tennstedt, both of which I rate highly. So, in scepticism I went to Spotify. Outcome, I have ordered the Ozawa and will now do a bit of delving into his legacy. Thanks Jens, a shock of the right kind. It is as you describe it and it it the impressive ebb and flow of the second movement that I enjoy so much.

Mike