Author Topic: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger  (Read 4091 times)

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snyprrr

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Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« on: March 12, 2009, 07:32:41 AM »
all i know is that he, Haydn, and Boccherini all all began writing str. qrts. around the same time, yet his key choices seem exciting to me (lots of minors, yes, i'm a minor key guy).

anyone familiar with his style?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 10:27:24 AM by snyprrr »

Dr. Dread

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Re: ALBRECHTSBERGER
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 07:38:49 AM »
All caps in the headers and all lower case in the posts? Interesting...  :)

snyprrr

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Re: ALBRECHTSBERGER
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 07:45:59 AM »
eye just kant win! :o

jlaurson

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Re: ALBRECHTSBERGER
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 02:57:17 PM »
all i know is that he, Haydn, and Boccherini all all began writing str. qrts. around the same time, yet his key choices seem exciting to me (lots of minors, yes, i'm a minor key guy).

anyone familiar with his style?

Happy late Galant-style. The "Authentic Quartet" on Hungaroton recorded some... but not well. The music is good, though, worthy discovering beyond the reasonably popular concertos for Jewish Harp that survive. His 200th death anniversary was 10 days ago.

Offline Gabriel

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Re: ALBRECHTSBERGER
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 03:33:54 PM »
Happy late Galant-style. The "Authentic Quartet" on Hungaroton recorded some... but not well. The music is good, though, worthy discovering beyond the reasonably popular concertos for Jewish Harp that survive. His 200th death anniversary was 10 days ago.

I own the Authentic Quartet recording and for me, it sounds at least competent. For sure it could be better recorded, but I'm afraid that this kind of repertoire is not attractive for the best quartets.

I agree with your opinion on these works. I would describe them as careful, in the best sense provided by this word. They are certainly not revolutionary or exhibiting a sense of clear originality, but they are excellently written. Beautiful ideas, beautiful part-writing, very clear and very elegant music.

I guess that further exploration in Albrechtsberger production could lead to discovery of fairly important works. Let's hope minor labels will be interested in this...

snyprrr

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Re: Albrechtsberger
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 11:40:19 PM »
I'm curious about that Op.7 4-6 disc.

My old index states Op.7 (D, A, F, ?, ?, ?; circa 1782), yet I got new info stating 1787 as the date. When were these SQs found? Interesting how they were the ones recorded... so arbitrary?

Albrechtsberger wrote just as many SQs as Haydn, I believe, if not more. Unless there is another Albrechtsberger, he wrote his first in 1760. The first "Op.1" comes in 1780 and his last in 1808.

I'm sorry to hear the recording is off. This is music I really want to try. Hungaroton has a few interesting discs like this (Pleyel SQs).

Anyhow, Albrechtsberger would be my candidate for dark horse masterpiece writer. Keep in my that the cd in question contains only three, fairly early/mature SQs.

I would love to hear the b minor of 1807 or the c minor of 1808. Albrechtsberger probably wrote more minor key SQs than Boccherini. The only question is as to their depth.

I believe IF Albrechtsberger's SQ cycle were to see the light of day, it might just be something...Fantasy Box!!

karlhenning

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Re: ALBRECHTSBERGER
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2009, 02:41:50 AM »
Happy late Galant-style.

Thank you. To you, too!

snyprrr

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2009, 09:53:39 AM »
I am just finishing my first listen to the Authentic Quartet/Hungaroton recording of Op.7 4-6:

I think we have reviews by AntoineM., Gabriel, SonicMan, and ChamberNut. I am to make this definitive!

Some of the reviewers commented on a bad recording, but I'm not finding it particular. Perhaps it is a bit dry, and perhaps the instruments themselves could use better placement, etc, but I find the recording serviceable. As to performance, I could have used a bit more tang out of the original instruments, but there are a few juicy moments.

One or two of the reviewers seemed completely taken with the music, whilst others seemed to compare them slightly below the very best. I'll go out on a limb and say they're as masterly as anything I've heard up to LvB Op.18 (7/6 especially). Considering AlbrechtsB wrote about as many SQs as Haydn, and these are the only three to go on, I think it's fair enough to say that we don't have the full picture. What if all we had from Haydn was the first three SQs of Op.64?

Anyhow, these SQs have a few baroque moments one doesn't hear in Pleyel and Dittersdorf, but that I heard in the Richter SQs. AlbrechtsB certainly has a conservative, yet robust, style.

I was disappointed by the notes.I thought they did a good job of talking about Vienna at the time, but didn't go into more depth about AlbrechtsB's SQs per se. My SQ Index lists these SQs as @1782, but the notes definitively state 1787 (Haydn Op.50); my Index also has question marks for 4-6, the same SQs on this recording, so I was curious if they had been discovered recently, or what. The notes say that 4-6 have remained in manuscript, whilst 1-3 were published in 1789 in Hungary (and they remain the first SQs published in Hungary!).

Anyhow, back to the music: 2 SQs (C, Eb) in four mvmts, 1 (g minor) in three. Of course, I was curious about the g minor. The slow 1st mvmt sounds particularly baroque, reminding me of a stricter Haydn Op.55 f minor SQ: same melancoly flavor, two different approaches (Haydn is far ahead here in terms of construction). The final mvmt, 10mins long, is quite substantial, however, reminding me again of Richter, and Haydn Op.20 (slow mvmt of No.2, 1st mvmt of No.5).

No.4 in C major sounds like any number of minor Haydn SQs. This one will take a few more listens, though I really dig the plunking pizz in the Adagio. No.6 in Eb is the longest at 26mins, and, I think, the work on this album most able to take on any challengers as far as posterity is concerned. It's just as perfectly crafted as any Mozz or Haydn work. Perhaps we just take all these things for granted?

All snobs aside, and less-than-utopian sound notwithstanding, this album seems pretty important to me on different levels, and, I think, deserves your attention! If all you have is Mozz and Haydn and LvB SQs, then I think your next three should be Richter, Krommer, and AlbrechtsB (or: Pleyel, Dittersdorf, Boccherini,... for the lighter side (though, not really)).

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 05:32:55 PM »
At the bottom is quoted a post that I just left in the listening thread concerning the 2 discs that I own of this composer, both of which I enjoy; regarding the String Quartets, I'd have to agree w/ snyprrr on the quality and performances of this recording; these are well written works (better that Mozart or Haydn - no but quite good) - just to reinforce this opinion, I tried to search for reviews and few were available; immediately below is one quoted from the All Music Guide - this recording is certainly worth exploring for those interested in another composer/teacher w/ dates similar to Haydn who was an important character in the classical music scene of the era!  Dave  :)
 
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Johann Georg Albrechtsberger is primarily remembered today as a friend of Franz Joseph Haydn and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and as Ludwig van Beethoven's teacher, as well as for composing a number of canons that periodically turn up as examples in theory classes. Beyond that, few know of Albrechtsberger's oeuvre, which includes over 600 works in most of the Classical forms, though precious few of these have ever been recorded. Fortunately, the Authentic Quartet has released this extraordinary album of three of Albrechtsberger's String Quartets, Op. 7/4-6, and connoisseurs of the genre may note with pleasure that he was a fine composer in his own right and fully deserving of the respect accorded him by Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven. The outer quartets, No. 4 in C major and No. 6 in E flat major, are quite vivacious and witty in their repartée, and the intervening No. 5 in G minor is only slightly less lively for its melancholy first movement. As its name suggests, the Authentic Quartet plays period instruments, and it sounds marvelous with its bright, vibrato-less tone and deliciously resinous bowing, sonorities that are now expected in any historically informed Classical performance. Hungaroton's resonant reproduction also contributes to the luster of the album, and the music sounds as burnished as any string quartet could make it. If this disc signals a renascence of Albrechtsberger's music, then there's good reason to be excited, especially if this excellent ensemble leads the way with future recordings like this one. ~ Blair Sanderson, All Music Guide

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Albrechtsberger, Johann Georg (1736-1809) - String Trios w/ the Belvedere Trio Wien; famous Viennese teacher & composer (also includes a Trio by Sperger) - close friend of Haydn & Mozart, and teacher of so many, including Beethoven!

String Quartets, same composer w/ Authentic Quartet on 'period instruments' - this guy wrote a LOT of music but little is published; these two discs are quite enjoyable, just wished other CDs of his works might have been recorded -  :-\

 

snyprrr

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 11:40:28 PM »
At the bottom is quoted a post that I just left in the listening thread concerning the 2 discs that I own of this composer, both of which I enjoy; regarding the String Quartets, I'd have to agree w/ snyprrr on the quality and performances of this recording; these are well written works (better that Mozart or Haydn - no but quite good) - just to reinforce this opinion, I tried to search for reviews and few were available; immediately below is one quoted from the All Music Guide - this recording is certainly worth exploring for those interested in another composer/teacher w/ dates similar to Haydn who was an important character in the classical music scene of the era!  Dave  :)

Both Eybler's and Albrechtsberger's sets are from 1787, and if we just put everything in context, these are two great examples of the great variety of art being produced at this pinnacle of High Classicism. I've been pairing them up with great results.

Albrechtsberger really has the catchy melody thing going on in the first mvmts. that make them pretty instantly appealing. The second mvmt. of No.4, with the constant harmonic pizz, is really striking, and, was also taken up by Haydn in Op.64/4's equal mvmt.

If the Mosaiques had played these SQs, they would have won the Grammo-something! It is hard when this present group just seems to slightly fall short is all respects; however, I AM able to hear the Mosaiques in my head, so, trade-off.

I find these SQs relate best with Haydn's Opp. 9/17, and parts of Op.20.



Dave, can you gather from the booklet that these particular SQs were very unique in Albrechtsberger's output (at least up to 1790)? I'm thinking even these last three were more special than the first three, so, my point being, this may be the pinnacle of Albrechtsberger's thinking on this matter. I know he wrote a lot of SQs after this, but will we ever know the substance of these? Some of them do look interesting, in strange keys and all...




Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2010, 07:18:21 AM »
Dave, can you gather from the booklet that these particular SQs were very unique in Albrechtsberger's output (at least up to 1790)? I'm thinking even these last three were more special than the first three, so, my point being, this may be the pinnacle of Albrechtsberger's thinking on this matter. I know he wrote a lot of SQs after this, but will we ever know the substance of these? Some of them do look interesting, in strange keys and all...

Hello Snyprrr - I've been trying to find a decent listing of this guy's works on the web ever since my first purchase of the CDs that I own; just does not seem to be available!  The liner notes from the SQs state that he wrote c. 284 church music works, 278 keyboard pieces, and 193 other works (assume chamber & orchestral?).

Of the SQs under question, they are listed as part of his Op. 7 output (Nos. 4-6); little is mentioned about the first 3 from that opus set, so not sure if Nos. 1-3 are earlier works and/or composed in a different manner?  The statement is made that he wrote about 30 SQs, and the ones on the CD are from 1787 (as you stated) - but again not clear as to 'how many' of the others came before or after that date; appears that his most active time as a composer was between 1780-1790.

Also, I just checked Amazon & ArkivMusic under his name - just not much available - only a handful of discs w/ him as the sole composer - most of the rest has him w/ a work or so + other composers.  So, appears that much needs to be published and discovered - I'm sure that plenty of his music is extant yet to be recorded!  Dave  :)

snyprrr

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2010, 10:58:33 PM »
Hello Snyprrr - I've been trying to find a decent listing of this guy's works on the web ever since my first purchase of the CDs that I own; just does not seem to be available!  The liner notes from the SQs state that he wrote c. 284 church music works, 278 keyboard pieces, and 193 other works (assume chamber & orchestral?).

Of the SQs under question, they are listed as part of his Op. 7 output (Nos. 4-6); little is mentioned about the first 3 from that opus set, so not sure if Nos. 1-3 are earlier works and/or composed in a different manner?  The statement is made that he wrote about 30 SQs, and the ones on the CD are from 1787 (as you stated) - but again not clear as to 'how many' of the others came before or after that date; appears that his most active time as a composer was between 1780-1790.

Also, I just checked Amazon & ArkivMusic under his name - just not much available - only a handful of discs w/ him as the sole composer - most of the rest has him w/ a work or so + other composers.  So, appears that much needs to be published and discovered - I'm sure that plenty of his music is extant yet to be recorded!  Dave  :)

Check this out! ;)

@1760 (D, Bb, F), (A)
1764 (E)

1780 Op.1 (G, A, Bb, f, a, Eb)
1782 Op.2 (D, G, E, c, f, D)
@1782 Op.7 (D, A, F, ?, ?, ?)*

1786 Op.5 (Bb, g, d, F, A, e)

1792 Op.10 (d, F, a, e, C, Ab)

1797 Op.16 (A, d, G, c, F, Bb)
1798 Op.14 (G, Eb, C, F, D, Bb)
           Op.18 (D, G, C, F, d, Bb)
           Op.19 (A, A) haha, shades of boccherini! ;)
1800 Op.20 (G, Bb, Eb, F, C, d)

1805 Op.23 (C, Eb, Ab, F, d, A)
1807 Op.24 (C, Eb, Bb, G, b, A)
1808 Op.26 (Eb, c, Bb, D, e, C)



That's the way my index puts it. Notice the interesting discrepency, written as it is, with question marks, ha, it's the very same SQs on the cd that are missing! So, the notes date from 1787, whilst the index gives an @1782 date, though, I must say, this index can be strange with the "@" symbol sometimes. They certainly "sound" like from an earlier vintage, but, maybe he was just a throwback, as they say. Anyhow, I've had the index for a while, and I think it's older, perhaps early '80s research, so it's interesting how it seems to think of 4-6 as "lost", whereas, poof!, that's what we got here. I thought the notes said that these (4-6) were "still in manuscript form"? Anyhow, interesting little mystery.

Am I counting 79 SQs? Hmmm ::)...

Sean

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 10:40:46 AM »
I know the Harp concerto, an example of the period's musical mediocrity...

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 02:17:38 PM »
Snyprrr - interesting index you provided - I'm assuming that these are of his String Quartets?  And, if so you've provided over twice as many as quoted in the liner notes - just curious if you have any 'sources and/or references' to this composer's output?  As stated previously, I've tried but failed to find any substantial listing of his works on the web!  :-\

I know the Harp concerto, an example of the period's musical mediocrity...

Sean - first, have you heard either of the two Harp Concertos shown below?  These are listed on Amazon but I cannot track down any reviews - if you have, I assume you were not thrilled?

Concerning your other opinion about 'the period's musical mediocrity', you certainly are entitled to an opinion; but Albrechtsberger's dates mirror those of Haydn, so for me much of the music composed in the latter half of the 18th & early 19th centuries is some of my favorite - I'm sure others share one or the other of our choices - Dave  :D


 

Sean

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 02:58:46 PM »

Sean - first, have you heard either of the two Harp Concertos shown below?  These are listed on Amazon but I cannot track down any reviews - if you have, I assume you were not thrilled?

Concerning your other opinion about 'the period's musical mediocrity', you certainly are entitled to an opinion; but Albrechtsberger's dates mirror those of Haydn, so for me much of the music composed in the latter half of the 18th & early 19th centuries is some of my favorite - I'm sure others share one or the other of our choices - Dave  :D


 

I remember I made a recording of some radio broadcast of this concerto and don't recall the details...

Sean

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2010, 02:59:41 PM »
I didn't mean all the music of the period was mediocre by the way!

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2010, 03:07:02 PM »
I didn't mean all the music of the period was mediocre by the way!

Sean - thanks for the comments on the harp piece - maybe others will have an opinion?

As to the above, that was my assumption; there were a 'hella of a lot' composers back then (pre-recorded music, TV, movies, etc. were non-existent!) and much 'average' music was certainly composed (and most hopefully lost -  :D) - but the 'cream of the crop' (and those lurking just below) are certainly worthy - Dave  :)

Sean

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Re: Johann Georg Albrechtsberger
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2010, 03:40:07 PM »
Sean - thanks for the comments on the harp piece - maybe others will have an opinion?

As to the above, that was my assumption; there were a 'hella of a lot' composers back then (pre-recorded music, TV, movies, etc. were non-existent!) and much 'average' music was certainly composed (and most hopefully lost -  :D) - but the 'cream of the crop' (and those lurking just below) are certainly worthy - Dave  :)

Sure thing Dave. How's this lot for starters- all names some of whose music I've explored

1730

SACCHINI      Antonio             1730-86          Italian
CANNABICH      Christian          1731-98          German
BACH         Johann Christoph Friedrich    1732-95          German
HAYDN         Josef             1732-1809       Austrian   
LINLEY         Thomas             1733-95          England
GOSSEC      Francois          1734-1829       Belgian
SCHOBERT      Johann             c1735-67       Silesian/ French
BACH         Johann Christian          1735-82          German
ECKARD      Johann Gottfried          1735-1809       German
ALBRECHTSBERGER   Johann Georg          1736-1809       Austrian
MYSLIVECEK      Josef             1737-81          Bohemian
HAYDN         Michael             1737-1806       Austrian
HOFFMANN      Leopold             1738-93          Austrian
HAYES         Philip             1738-97          English
HERSCHEL      William            1738-1822      German/ English
DITTERSDORF      Karl Ditters von          1739-99          Austrian
VANHAL      Johann             1739-1813       Bohemian/ Austrian

1740

ARNOLD      Samuel             1740-1802       English
PAISIELLO      Giovanni          1740-1816       Italian
NAUMANN      Johann Gottlieb          1741-1801       German
GRETRY      Andre Ernest         1741-1813       Belgian/ French
KRUMPHOLTZ      Jean-Baptiste          1742-1790       Bohemian
STAMITZ      Carl             1745-1801       German
DRUSCHETZKY      Georg             1745-1819       Bohemian
PUNTO         Giovanni          1746-1803       Bohemian
BOCCHERINI      Luigi             1743-1805       Italian
HOOK         James             1746-1827       English
NEEFE         Christian Gottlob          1748-98          German
SHIELD         William             1748-1829       English
CIMAROSA      Domenico          1749-1801       Italian

1750

ROSETTI      Antonio             c1750-92       Bohemian
SALIERI         Antonio             1750-1825       Italian
BORTNYANSKY      Dimitry             1751-1825       Russian
LEBRUN      Ludwig August          1752-90          German
REICHARDT      Johann Friedrich          1752-1814       German
MARSH         John             1752-1828       English
CLEMENTI      Muzio             1752-1832       Italian/ English
HOFFMEISTER      Franz Anton          1754-1812       German
FIORILLO      Federigo          1755-c1823       Italian
VIOTTI         Giovanni Battista          1755-1824       Italian
MOZART      Wolfgang Amadeus       1756-91          Austrian
KRAUS         Joseph Martin          1756-92          German/ Swedish
WRANITZKY      Paul             1756-1808       Moravian
PLEYEL         Ignaz             1757-1831       Austrian
ZELTER         Carl Friedrich          1758-1832       German
KROMMER      Franz             1759-1831       Moravian

1760

ZUMSTEEG      Johann Rudolf          1760-1802       German
DUSSEK      Jan Ladislav          1760-1812       Bohemian
CHERUBINI      Luigi             1760-1842       Italian
TULINDBERG      Erik             1761-1814       Finnish
KUNZEN      Friedrich          1761-1817       German/ Danish
TAUSCH      Franz             1762-1817       German
MEHUL         Etienne-Nicolas          1763-1817       French
DANZI         Franz             1763-1826       German
EYBLER         Joseph Leopold         1765-1846       Austrian
SUSSMAYR      Franz Xaver          1766-1803       Austrian
WESLEY      Samuel             1766-1837       English
FODOR         Carolus Antonius          1768-1846       Dutch
ELSNER      Joseph Xaver          1769-1854       Polish