Author Topic: Lo Spazio Sciarrino  (Read 14263 times)

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snyprrr

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Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« on: May 02, 2009, 11:34:14 AM »
When it comes to composers who appear to be concerned only with "sounds", all the fun sounds generated over the last hundred years, two composers come to mind: Lachenmann and Sciarrino. 

One could go on about the similarities and differences between these two, but suffice to say, Lachenmann is German, and Sciarrino is Italian...if you get my drift, sonically speaking (they also appear to not like each other very much?).

All I will say is that Sciarrino has taken the experiments with extended technique to places no one else seems to have gone. I think he single-handedly reinvented the flute rep., and I particularly have enjoyed all his string and mixed ensemble works; however (thank God), there is much Sciarrino that I shun (mostly the long vocal works).

Anyhow, I wanted to present a gameplan for the potential neophyte, so, bear with me.

SALVATORE SCIARRINO:

For me, the core is the string music:

Sei capricci/ per mattia for solo violin
Tre notturni brillanti for solo viola
Ai limite della notte for solo cello
Explorazione del bianco for solo DBs

La malincolia for vln/vla
Codex purpureus for string trio
Sei quartetti brevi for SQ

Quintetto No.1/Centauro marino for Clarinet Qnt.
La ragione della conchiglie /Codex purpureus II for Piano Qnt.
Trio No.2 for Piano Tr.

and the mixed ensemble pieces:

Lo spazio inverso
Il tempo con L'obelisco
Explorazione dell bianco II
Introduzione all'oscuro


PIANO:
Though his instrumental music usually lies on the border of inaudiblity, his piano music can be teeth smashingly bloody. There are two main discs, and I believe between them we have most of it.  Though I would never ask you to start here, some of the smaller pieces have a fluid water music to them that belies Sciarrino's other output (Anamorfosi).
One standout is the harpsicord piece De o de do (Tiensuu-Finlandia) which IS the wildest hrpsrd. I've heard. I imagine his harp pieces are equally droolable.

FLUTE:
I think he has written more solo flute music than anyone around these days, and there ARE rabid converts. The pops, the burbling, the gurgling, the icynesses...it's all here if you're a flautist. I think there are actually 2 separate sets (2cds a piece) available, but of course, the flautist Roberto Fabricciani?? would be the way to go. $$$ have prevented me.

Then there are pieces with wind and piano, and a couple of wind quintets (again, most of this is available on the Stradivarius label).

The standout disc for me is a chamber retrospective on the Arion label, very hard to get. Also, the Arditti and Knox recitals, and the solo violin disc, The Refined Ear.
__________________________________________________________

Switching over to orchestral...well, it's been pretty spotty, though he managed to make it onto one of those Abbado Wein Modern DG discs (Autoritratto della notte). Everything still pretty much sounds the same, though the greater forces add somewhat.
But now Stradivarius has released a 2cd set of orchestral works (I won't list) to sate the most rabid fan. I'm sure $$$ will prevent me, however...
...ultimately, like Rihm, a couple of perfect Sciarrino cds will go a long way. There IS a giant "symphony", Un'immagine di Arpocrate, available, for chorus, piano, and orch., with texts from Goethe and Wittgenstein, that may be the ultima for those seeking a calling card. I recall it being very big...and too long for me.
__________________________________________________________

now for the part I stay away from, the vocal/ens. music, most of which is verrry long (the pieces listed above being fairly short), and with such a spare instrumentation as to make late Feldman seem opulent. For some reason the cd makers have chosen to concentrate on this part of Sciarrino's output, which, at least, saves me the $$$. Standouts have been:

Aspern suite
Vanitas
Lohengrin
(and all those Kairos discs I can't seem to find at the moment)

I don't know too many sciarrino -philes who like this part of his output.
__________________________________________________________

So...he's one of my favorite composers...which means he has a lot of music I shun (like Xenakis). I have my "complete string chamber" (minus solo violin), which I love, and were I to go further I might dip into the harrowing piano music or the extraordinary flute music. I probably WON'T be going for the piece for 100 saxes!!!

So, I know Sciarrino is only for a few, but I believe that many open minded people would be turned on to him if they can appreciate the true physicality of what it takes for a musican to pull it off, and that Sciarrino's sounds DO "conjure" (in the manner of Scelsi) openings into other worlds. Just listen to Garth Knox play the viola piece, it is simply amazing. All Sciarrino's string music has this effect on me.
Eventhough they appear just to be exercises, these pieces ARE put together "in such a way."

Anyhow, I look forward to any thoughts on the matter. Feel free to talk about ANY composer (like Lachenmann/Haas)also living in this shadowy sound world.

Thank you for your support.





« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 07:29:01 PM by snyprrr »

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2009, 01:12:52 PM »
I bought the following disc on its release (2001 if I recall):


It served as a rather short, sharp shock in revealing the extent of classical modernism for me. Of course, I hated it at first, but gradually I felt compelled to relisten to it, then again, then again, and strange things happened. I considered the caprices as pure aural torture on my first listen, but after a few years I had come to consider them as some of the most sensual music I had yet encountered. Pure sound-worship in its glistening, stabbing lines. Wild stuff!
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Offline edward

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2009, 03:49:14 PM »
One of the most stunning pieces I've heard by this composer is (on Stradivarius) "Studi per l'intoazione del mar", for 104 flutes, 104 saxes and one percussionist. It's got an amazing sound world and the rainstorm sequence is like nothing I've ever heard before.

The disc Lethe mentions is interesting me. While Sciarrino can be a bit repetitive, at his best he's like nothing else.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 03:13:10 AM »
I like Sciarrino a lot. I have a number of his works and it all started when I decided to dig into that mysterious dedicatee of Nono's La Lontananza Nostalgica Utopica Futura--"a Salvatore Sciarrino, 'caminante' esemplare" (interestingly I prefer the Arditti/Richard version of it rather than the Mellinger/Sciarrino).

The first works I was exposed to (all of which I truly loved) were the Fabbrica degli incantesimi (the first bundle of flute works), Un'Immagine d'Arpocrate (yes, it is big, but it is also so fantastic) and Vanitas (the writing for voice, piano and cello is exquisite).
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Offline The Six

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 07:26:45 AM »
scriabinwasmydad on Youtube has some Sciarrino up. His sonatas are pretty good, with No.2 probably being the best. He does seem to be using a new technique in writing for the instrument, but it doesn't really rely much on the how it will end up sounding.

snyprrr

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 09:16:39 PM »
I'm still going to hawk that Arion chamber cd.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
Been having a lot of fun with Sui poemi concentrici, recently released on Kairos. It's almost like ambient music, which is probably a consequence of having been adapted from his soundtrack to the Divina Commedia television series.
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snyprrr

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 11:58:34 AM »
Been having a lot of fun with Sui poemi concentrici, recently released on Kairos. It's almost like ambient music, which is probably a consequence of having been adapted from his soundtrack to the Divina Commedia television series.

I was just surfing Sciarrino on Amazon. Wow, has the discography exploded!

1) So, the thing you have is 3 cds with one "concerto" per disc?? What's up with that? Are they really that long? I noticed that they were all from the late-'80s, good vintage.

2) I also noticed that Stradivarius' 2-cd orchestral set reaches back to the '70s (Varianzoni for cello & orch) and has a few very recent bits also.

3) Strad also has a 2-cd set of mixed wind & piano music, not counting the seemingly endless flute discs. Thankfully, there is only one clarinet piece so far.

4) The vocal music has exploded to the point where i can't tell one piece from another. The titles seem to wash endlessly over me,... thankfully, I'm not yet tempted. I remember straining to hear the Gesualdo piece in the store when it came out.

5) I saw a new solo violin disc,... by composer Jurg Widmann's wife or sister?? It contains the 6 Capricci. This piece now has three recordings!

6) As a side note- the Avant Accordian discs are starting to clot! Yikes, so many!

7) A new Strad disc also pairs all of Sciarrino's "night" music for piano, with Ravel's Gaspard. Sciarrino's piano music (one one cd by Damieri, and one by Hodges) is one area that I'm not sure on. I have Sonata No.4, the abbatoir PS!, and I've heard Anamorfosi (zzz), but,...mmm,...I don't know. Anyone? I have heard some scintillating bits.



I seems that a very good chunk of Sciarrino's vast output is now on the market. Missing are a greater variety of orchestral works, but, not having heard the above 2-fer, I have no opinion.


Offline Brewski

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 12:05:52 PM »
And more Sciarrino news: just found out that this summer, the Lincoln Center Festival will present La porta della legge (2009), his opera based on Kafka's The Trial.

Details here.

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kentel

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 01:43:07 PM »

So...he's one of my favorite composers...which means he has a lot of music I shun (like Xenakis). I have my "complete string chamber" (minus solo violin), which I love, and were I to go further I might dip into the harrowing piano music or the extraordinary flute music. I probably WON'T be going for the piece for 100 saxes!!!

So, I know Sciarrino is only for a few, but I believe that many open minded people would be turned on to him if they can appreciate the true physicality of what it takes for a musican to pull it off, and that Sciarrino's sounds DO "conjure" (in the manner of Scelsi) openings into other worlds. Just listen to Garth Knox play the viola piece, it is simply amazing. All Sciarrino's string music has this effect on me.
Eventhough they appear just to be exercises, these pieces ARE put together "in such a way."

Anyhow, I look forward to any thoughts on the matter. Feel free to talk about ANY composer (like Lachenmann/Haas)also living in this shadowy sound world.

Thank you for your support.

I've listened to a few cd's (especially the Kairos') and I can roughly say that I loved what I heard, and that I agree with most of your comments, with just one restriction : after some time, Sciarrino's musical language seems a little bit to be always the same : rustling, brushing, fluttering, hisses, swishes. Well, actually you said it too :) But it's very beautiful, no doubt about that, he has an extraordinary sense of timbre harmonies.

The musical stream he and a few others (Lachenmann, Francesconi, etc.) belong to is called "Klang Komposition" and was originally initiated by Nono. But my opinion is that Nono's music followed two completely different directions at a time : the post-serialist and the sound/spectral-like composition. In the latter, he was heavily influenced by his fellow countryman Scelsi, no doubt about that.

Thus, the very origins of Klang Komposition is certainly Scelsi's music, and this is striking when you listen to THIS cd :



where you have one work by Sciarrino, Infinito Nero and 3 by Scelsi (Codex Purpureus, Muro d'orizzonte and Omaggio a Burri). The sound textures of Sciarrino's Infinito Nero are exactly the same than in Scelsi's Muro d'orizzonte. The 4 works are masterpieces, but the cd leaves no doubt about who is the genius  :)

Anyway, this cd is one of the best Kairos cd's I've heard (and I have almost heard them all) : to me Infinito Nero is the best piece by Sciarrino, and the 3 others are among the best by Scelsi.

I'll tell a bit more about Sciarrino and other Klang composers (Lachenmann, Fabbricciani, Francesconi etc) in a moment, if I can find a little bit time :)

--Gilles
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 02:51:39 PM by kentel »

Offline Brewski

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 02:20:42 PM »
Anyway, this cd is one of the best Kairos cd's I've heard (and I have almost heard them all) : to me Infinito Nero is the best piece by Sciarrino, and the 3 others are among the best by Scelsi.


Gilles, I am a huge fan of Infinito Nero, too, after hearing it live back in 2003 at a Juilliard concert.  One interesting detail about the concert: the piece is so quiet that they even turned off the air conditioning system in the hall for about 20 minutes, to maximize the effects.  It is amazing what you hear when you are in an environment of such stillness.

PS, I'm envious that you've heard so many of the Kairos CDs.  I have maybe 12 or 15 of them, all quite good. 

--Bruce 
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 04:03:56 PM »
1) So, the thing you have is 3 cds with one "concerto" per disc?? What's up with that? Are they really that long? I noticed that they were all from the late-'80s, good vintage.

They're all 45-50 minutes long, each with a different combination of soloists and orchestra.

2) I also noticed that Stradivarius' 2-cd orchestral set reaches back to the '70s (Varianzoni for cello & orch) and has a few very recent bits also.

3) Strad also has a 2-cd set of mixed wind & piano music, not counting the seemingly endless flute discs. Thankfully, there is only one clarinet piece so far.

I absolutely love the flute disc on Col Legno (corresponds to vol 1 of the flute works on Strad).

I haven't checked the new releases on Strad, will definitely check them out.

7) A new Strad disc also pairs all of Sciarrino's "night" music for piano, with Ravel's Gaspard. Sciarrino's piano music (one one cd by Damieri, and one by Hodges) is one area that I'm not sure on. I have Sonata No.4, the abbatoir PS!, and I've heard Anamorfosi (zzz), but,...mmm,...I don't know. Anyone? I have heard some scintillating bits.

For music with piano, I think Un'immagine d'Arpocrate and Vanitas are absolutely outstanding (two of my favourite pieces). I never personally got that much into Sciarrino's solo piano music (nothing really beats Stockhausen's Klavierstucke).
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 05:06:46 PM »
The musical stream he and a few others (Lachenmann, Francesconi, etc.) belong to is called "Klang Komposition" and was originally initiated by Nono. But my opinion is that Nono's music followed two completely different directions at a time : the post-serialist and the sound/spectral-like composition. In the latter, he was heavily influenced by his fellow countryman Scelsi, no doubt about that.

I've never seen a definitive link between Scelsi and Nono, certainly not to the point of having "no doubt about that". For one, Nono's approach and intent are different than Scelsi's--the latter is concerned about the sound, Nono with silence; Scelsi explores and brings to the fore the components that build up the sound, Nono is concerned about sound at the limits of audibility, with a very fragmented continuity.

And I would never say that Nono is a Klang Kompositionen composer. He wasn't doing the same kind of work other composers were doing in the 60s, which is when most Klang Kompositionen came into being; can't really compare with what Cerha (another less-known composer I really like), Ligeti, or Scelsi were doing then.

Thus, the very origins of Klang Komposition is certainly Scelsi's music, and this is striking when you listen to THIS cd :



where you have one work by Sciarrino, Infinito Nero and 3 by Scelsi (Codex Purpureus, Muro d'orizzonte and Omaggio a Burri). The sound textures of Sciarrino's Infinito Nero are exactly the same than in Scelsi's Muro d'orizzonte. The 4 works are masterpieces, but the cd leaves no doubt about who is the genius  :)

Anyway, this cd is one of the best Kairos cd's I've heard (and I have almost heard them all) : to me Infinito Nero is the best piece by Sciarrino, and the 3 others are among the best by Scelsi.

I think this is not the correct CD. Indeed it has Infinito Nero, but the other pieces are based on Gesualdo. You were probably thinking of the Kairos CD with Lo spazio inverso, but then you lost me when you attributed the other works to Scelsi. Codex Purpureus, Muro d'orizzonte and Omaggio a Burri are all works by Sciarrino.

I'll tell a bit more about Sciarrino and other Klang composers (Lachenmann, Fabbricciani, Francesconi etc) in a moment, if I can find a little bit time :)

I love Lachenmann, and have a CD or two with works by Luca Francesconi. I've never heard anything by Fabbricciani, other than as a performer of works by both Nono and Sciarrino.
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kentel

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 11:53:30 PM »
I think this is not the correct CD. Indeed it has Infinito Nero, but the other pieces are based on Gesualdo. You were probably thinking of the Kairos CD with Lo spazio inverso, but then you lost me when you attributed the other works to Scelsi. Codex Purpureus, Muro d'orizzonte and Omaggio a Burri are all works by Sciarrino.

That's correct, and I got totally deceived because on the Naxos Music Library where I heard these pieces, the last three you mentioned are credited to...Giacinto Scelsi...  ??? But I checked it on the Kairos website and they are wrong...(on the NML I mean).

I can't say I disagree with your comment, but a little bit though : I agree for the "silent" aspect of Nono's music, but I find it rather difficult to deny that there is a clear connection between Scelsi's Three Sacred Songs from 1958 and Da un diario italiano from 1964 or Donde estas hermano ? from 1982, or between La Lontananza nostalgica utopica futura from 1984 and Anagamin from 1965.  Their approaches may be different, but the result is sometimes very close.

As well as I find it difficult to deny that there is a clear connection between Das Atmende Klarsein and many works by Lachenmann, thus between the Klang Komposition and Nono : after all, Lachenmann was Nono's pupil, and the references to Nono are omnipresent in his interviews.

My feeling is that the most striking feature of Nono's music (which you don't find in Scelsi's) is what I would call the pointillist effects (Fragment Stille - An Diotima, Hay que caminar sonando, Como una ola de fuerza y luz etc.). Lachenmann inherited that from Nono, and we're talking about Klang Komposition. Lachenmann is the Klang composer par excellence.

In any case, that's great to discuss all this matter with a fan of Nono, I love his music (minus the political aspect). My favorite is the Prometeo where you find all the ingredients of his music aesthetics at a time, and which I consider as his greatest accomplishment.

--Gilles
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 11:58:27 PM by kentel »

kentel

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 12:05:48 AM »
I love Lachenmann, and have a CD or two with works by Luca Francesconi. I've never heard anything by Fabbricciani, other than as a performer of works by both Nono and Sciarrino.

I know only this (very good) one :



for solo hyperbass flute. If you don't know what a hyperbass flute is :



This is very beautiful, it's like hearing the creaks and the cracks of the ice and the freezing wind all around. I highly recommand it.


kentel

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 12:17:11 AM »
Gilles, I am a huge fan of Infinito Nero, too, after hearing it live back in 2003 at a Juilliard concert.  One interesting detail about the concert: the piece is so quiet that they even turned off the air conditioning system in the hall for about 20 minutes, to maximize the effects.  It is amazing what you hear when you are in an environment of such stillness.

PS, I'm envious that you've heard so many of the Kairos CDs.  I have maybe 12 or 15 of them, all quite good. 

--Bruce

Hi Bruce, as PetrArch revealed to me that the 3 other pieces I mentioned are by Sciarrino too, it's really a pity you can't hear them since they really are masterpieces ! It's on this cd (the good one this time) :



Infinito Nero is still my favorite anyway. I'd love to hear it in real... All these pieces are on the NML, as most Kairos' cds; I'll write to them about this credit error.

--Gilles

Offline petrarch

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 01:42:08 PM »
I can't say I disagree with your comment, but a little bit though : I agree for the "silent" aspect of Nono's music, but I find it rather difficult to deny that there is a clear connection between Scelsi's Three Sacred Songs from 1958 and Da un diario italiano from 1964 or Donde estas hermano ? from 1982, or between La Lontananza nostalgica utopica futura from 1984 and Anagamin from 1965.  Their approaches may be different, but the result is sometimes very close.

Well, close results aren't enough to establish a causal link (as much as wildly different results aren't enough to prove the opposite). See, for instance, Varèse's Amériques and Stravinsky's Sacre (regardless of how strongly the latter claimed he had a measure for measure analysis of how Amériques was taken from the Sacre): "Close" results but no causal link. Compare also Cage and Feldman; very different results, but definite and well-known link.

On Scelsi, the natural progression is Scelsi -> spectralism, i.e. Murail, Grisey and others. There is probably more of Scelsi in Feldman than in Nono.

As well as I find it difficult to deny that there is a clear connection between Das Atmende Klarsein and many works by Lachenmann, thus between the Klang Komposition and Nono : after all, Lachenmann was Nono's pupil, and the references to Nono are omnipresent in his interviews.

Klang Komposition has a well-defined meaning, and to me it has nothing to do with what Nono, Lachenmann and even Scelsi did. Again, it is a kind of composition that emerged in the 60s, as a reaction against serialism. Cerha is a good example (see the awesome Spiegel cycle, for instance), along with the textural stuff by Penderecki (e.g. Anaklasis, Emanationen) and most of Ligeti's masterpieces of that decade (e.g. Apparitions, Atmosphères). The only concession I would make there is the striking similarity between the opening of the last movement of Scelsi's Pfhat and the opening of Cerha's Spiegel IV, but I would hardly say Scelsi was a Klang Komponist. And of course, Spiegel is from 1961 and Pfhat from 1974, so the influence, if there was any, was the other way around.

It is indeed well-known that Lachenmann was a pupil of Nono's. Bettina Ehrhardt (of A Trail on the Water fame) has made a very interesting documentary about Lachenmann that is a must-see for every Lachenmann fan (she mentioned she was doing one on Rihm, and I can't wait to see it).

Lachenmann is the Klang composer par excellence.

As I said above, you are probably using another definition of Klang Komposition. Perhaps because of the use of extended playing techniques, the timbral variety and the free use of "noise"?

In any case, that's great to discuss all this matter with a fan of Nono, I love his music (minus the political aspect). My favorite is the Prometeo where you find all the ingredients of his music aesthetics at a time, and which I consider as his greatest accomplishment.

Interestingly, although I find Prometeo to be the masterpiece around which all of the other compositions he did in 1980 and after gravitate, I don't think it is the most interesting. I far prefer Quando stanno morendo, the Lontananza, Guai ai gelidi mostri, Omaggio a Kurtag and obviously the string quartet. To be fair, there are exceedingly good segments in Prometeo (such as the Prologo but also Tre Voci, which only "gelled" in my ear when I saw it in concert).

The political aspect is inextricable from the work. That's what makes Nono's sound world deep in meaning and intent.

In any case, this discussion should probably move to a different thread; we don't want to hijack it and take the focus away from Sciarrino ;).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 02:05:59 PM by petrArch »
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Offline UB

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 05:06:20 AM »
"Klang Komposition has a well-defined meaning, and to me it has nothing to do with what Nono, Lachenmann and even Scelsi did. Again, it is a kind of composition that emerged in the 60s, as a reaction against serialism. Cerha is a good example (see the awesome Spiegel cycle, for instance), along with the textural stuff by Penderecki (e.g. Anaklasis, Emanationen) and most of Ligeti's masterpieces of that decade (e.g. Apparitions, Atmosphères).

I have been following this exchange with great interest because I enjoy music by most of the composers being discussed. However I do not remember running across the term 'Klang Komposition" before and when I do a search I find very little about it and I could not find any "well-defined" meaning or explanation.

Since a number of styles emerged in the 60s as a reaction against serialism that does not seem like a very well defined meaning. Since you seem to know exactly what it means, could you please tell me where I can find more than the few things that are show up on Wikipedia. Thanks!
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kentel

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 05:38:15 AM »
"Klang Komposition has a well-defined meaning, and to me it has nothing to do with what Nono, Lachenmann and even Scelsi did. Again, it is a kind of composition that emerged in the 60s, as a reaction against serialism. Cerha is a good example (see the awesome Spiegel cycle, for instance), along with the textural stuff by Penderecki (e.g. Anaklasis, Emanationen) and most of Ligeti's masterpieces of that decade (e.g. Apparitions, Atmosphères).

I have been following this exchange with great interest because I enjoy music by most of the composers being discussed. However I do not remember running across the term 'Klang Komposition" before and when I do a search I find very little about it and I could not find any "well-defined" meaning or explanation.

Neither did I :) I only heard once Lachenmann say something about that. I think it comes from this paper by Rainer Nonnenmann, Angebot durch Verweigerung: Die Ästhetik instrumentalkonkreten Klangkomponierens in Helmut Lachenmanns frühen Orchesterwerken. Curiously, it is mentioned on many pages in French and German, but not in English...

In french the stream is called "bruitiste"; I don't know the english equivalent. For me Sciarrino is certainly bruitiste, as Lachenmann, Francesconi, Fabbriciani and all those guys.

Just a question of words actually...

--Gilles
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 05:42:11 AM by kentel »

kentel

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Re: Lo Spazio Sciarrino
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 05:51:28 AM »
I have been following this exchange with great interest because I enjoy music by most of the composers being discussed. However I do not remember running across the term 'Klang Komposition" before and when I do a search I find very little about it and I could not find any "well-defined" meaning or explanation.

Since a number of styles emerged in the 60s as a reaction against serialism that does not seem like a very well defined meaning. Since you seem to know exactly what it means, could you please tell me where I can find more than the few things that are show up on Wikipedia. Thanks!

Apparently it is called "Noise Music" in english : it's here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_%28music%29. Lachenmann is mentionned there, but if you go to the article devoted to him, he's said to belong to the musique concrète instrumentale stream.

Musique concrète instrumentale means, according to Lachenmann himself (I still quote from the Wikipedia) :

 in which the sound events are chosen and organized so that the manner in which they are generated is at least as important as the resultant acoustic qualities themselves. Consequently those qualities, such as timbre, volume, etc., do not produce sounds for their own sake, but describe or denote the concrete situation: listening, you hear the conditions under which a sound- or noise-action is carried out, you hear what materials and energies are involved and what resistance is encountered.


And that's exactly what Sciarrino does too.

So maybe we can say that Musique concrète instrumentale is a ramification of Noise Music   ????

And what about spectralism  ??? ??? ?

--Gilles