the unstoppable sviatoslav richter

[sidoze]

schubert d958 finale in budapest, 1958

http://download.yousendit.com/4EBDC49D5FC82FEC

zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom 

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Um is this a free download? Are you the one we have to thank for this?

[sidoze]

Um is this a free download? Are you the one we have to thank for this?

no - £5 via paypal. contact me for billing details

no - richter

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

5 pounds? That's about $1,000,000 CDN. Do you think I'm made of money? 

Maybe I'll get it but there are some very interesting Richter reissues packaged as 2 CD sets I'lll probably get soon. One has a bunch of Prokofiev sonatas, as well as some Scriabin and other Russian composers.

[sidoze]

Maybe I'll get it but there are some very interesting Richter reissues packaged as 2 CD sets I'lll probably get soon. One has a bunch of Prokofiev sonatas, as well as some Scriabin and other Russian composers.

That's all very well. Richter's repertoire was encyclopaedic and you'll hear a different interpretation of the same work depending on the stage of his life at the time. The one I've uploaded is Richter in his athletic (and probably musical) prime, shortly before he arrived in the west. A few Richter enthusiasts claim that his performances in the eastern bloc--live ones, mind you--were always superior to ones in the west, and given this recording here I certainly wouldn't disagree with that.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

A few Richter enthusiasts claim that his performances in the eastern bloc--live ones, mind you--were always superior to ones in the west, and given this recording here I certainly wouldn't disagree with that.

What "few Richter enthusiasts" claim that? Never caught wind of such a notion, myself.

Further, such a notion is nowhere to be found in any of the literature pertaining to Richter. Neither is it reflected in any of the discussions here on GMG, excepting what you've posited.

And it goes without saying such a thing is not reflected in any of my listening.

Have you heard any of Richter's Aldeburgh recordings? Any of his Tours recordings? Any of his Italian recordings? Even his New York/New Jersey recordings (official)?

It's all well and good to admire what the eastern bloc accomplished but poor Richter deserves better than this kind of pigeonholing.

[sidoze]

And it goes without saying such a thing is not reflected in any of my listening.

It is to these ears. My impression is that his most overwhelming, most intense (most inhuman even) performances come from Russia or the eastern bloc. He was great in Italy too (the live Prokofiev 8, for example, and the live Schumann recordings on Japanese EMI), and yes I know the Aldeburgh recordings--though I don't favour them to anything he recorded elsewhere.

The notion, so called, is favourable amongst my self-favoured self and our mutual friend Steve M. I've also come across it on RMCR, though I like to think I came to the conclusion of my own volition.

In any case, I suspect if you point westwards to one recording, I'll point eastwards to one I prefer instead. He seemed more comfortable there, Italy perhaps being the exception. I don't know the French recordings well at all. Am I right in thinking most of them were later in his life, from the 1970s onwards?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

He seemed more comfortable there [in the east]...

Sorry, Sid, but this simply betrays a lack of knowledge of the subject. Pardon me for being so blunt...

Allow me explain...

As far as Aldeburgh goes, the atmosphere there couldn't have been more congenial. In fact, it's a matter of record that Richter felt quite at ease in the presence of his companions, e.g. Britten, et al. So comfortable was Richter with the festival he returned to it for the better part of a decade. Hardly a sign he had misgivings about the west.

As far as recordings go, possibly the greatest (the best I've heard, anyway) recording of the Liszt sonata took place there. There's a level of technical and musical penetration not reached on any other Richter recording I've heard. If you haven't heard it, it will blow you away! Listen to this recording, compare it to anything else in his catalogue, and come back and tell me that the level of hysteria isn't on an exalted level. 

You don't achieve such a level of accomplishment in a 'hostile' environment. Plain and simple.

To carry this 'east vs. west' debate further, there's the little matter of that festival he co-founded in the hills near the town of Tours, France. What would a frightful eastern soul be doing starting up a festival in the west? Obviously the comfort level was high enough that any trepidation fell flat.

Recordings from Tours again display no drop off in intensity and refinement, despite being so-called 'late' in his career. And besides, the 1970's are hardly late in Richter's career! In fact, Leslie Gerber (the Parnassus Records man!) rates Richter's mid-70's Hammerklavier (and would you believe, from LONDON!!) as possibly the greatest recording of the work ever. It's in a review of his in Fanfare. I'll look it up if you wish. So...the assumption that Richter is somehow 'falling off' in the '70's is unsubstantiated.

Now, to get back to Tours, don't you think it's odd that someone with misgivings about the west would start a festival on western soil?!? If the east were "home" then surely it follows you go there and take full advantage of its amenities.

Not to mention there's not one shred of historical data - and nothing even anecdotal!! - to suggest a pattern of eastern leanings in Richter's attitude. Nowhere is such a notion touched on, in the literature nor from the interviews I've read of Richter himself (Gramophone and The Enigma).

So, sorry, Sid, but the notion he preferred or felt more comfortable in the east is in no way borne out by the historical evidence.

If you and a couple of 'chosen ones' wish to argue otherwise you need to come up with more than hearsay and, well...to be frank, I'm not sure WHERE you're coming from, here...  0:)

[sidoze]

Perhaps I used the wrong words--such as 'comfortable'--because your response went off in the wrong direction.

'Historical evidence' means three things in this case: 1) Richter's expressed view, 2) Richter's behaviour, 3) Richter's recordings.

We all know what Richter said about his famous trip to the states, and we all know he disappeared at times, going off on far-reaching eastern tours and keeping out of large halls and western countries. Words and actions -- that's enough evidence. And when I take into account Tom Deacon's moaning about how Richter got his six-figure cheque and couldn't care less about the "official" Philips recordings--recordings for us, that is--it's the nail in the coffin, regardless of his general opinion of recordings. I don't know his motiviation for starting a festival in Tours but can guess that he must have liked the place, people and surroundings. There could be other explanations, but we'll keep it simple and away from cynicism. Anyway, I don't doubt he was at home in Aldeburgh either. Why shouldn't he be with the people who surrounded him there and the place not exactly being a large city with large demands?

However I meant to focus on number 3. Exclusively on number 3 actually. Those of us who came to this conclusion--which for some reason you obviously don't like--actually spent a lot of time listening to different recordings from all his periods and all the places he played in. I wouldn't say that listening to recordings as tantamount to being knowledgeable about something, but I wouldn't say it betrays that either. Point is that I usually if not always hear Richter playing to greater extremes in the eastern recordings. To stretch like that, to play without an audience (you could say), you'd probably have to feel comfortable.

Of course the '70s weren't late for him--his most intense Scriabin sonata 5 comes from that time, in Prague--but you have to keep in mind that Richter's discography is end-heavy. We don't have many recordings of him from the '40s and early '50s -- those that exist though are nothing short of sensational (the live Prokofiev PC 5 in Moscow, 1958 I think, is one I always remember). By the time he appeared in NY, he was already 45. I'd guess that the majority of his recordings were made here. That neither means he enjoyed recording nor enjoyed being here, and I think it would be wishful thinking if you simply look at quantity--or focus on listening to these recordings--and presume everything was fine.

I know the Liszt sonata and would prefer the one from Moscow. And as you mention Parnassus, I think his early Russian recordings on that label pretty much answer for me. The London Hammerklavier, if that's the one where he fluffed the finale and repeated it as an encore, then I think that says it all. And need I remind you of the Moscow Appassionata?

Having said all that, there's no accounting for taste. If someone genuinely prefers the western recordings, I have no problem with that, provided much is surveyed beforehand. What I do have a problem with is the rather odd dismissal of the very idea that he played better in the east.

Finally, as for 'not one shred of historical data', I think you should look into this more.

[rubio]

And as you mention Parnassus, I think his early Russian recordings on that label pretty much answer for me. The London Hammerklavier, if that's the one where he fluffed the finale and repeated it as an encore, then I think that says it all. And need I remind you of the Moscow Appassionata?

Can any of these Richter Parnassus releases be considered must-haves? Is the sound OK?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Perhaps I used the wrong words--such as 'comfortable'--because your response went off in the wrong direction.

Can't blame a person for reading what you wrote, no?

Those of us who came to this conclusion--which for some reason you obviously don't like--...

I wouldn't say I don't like it. What you prefer is no business of mine. However, I DO take issue when someone says they know more about Richter's mindset than the historical data would suggest. E. g., your statement that Richter felt more 'comfortable' in the east.

Such a comment betrays your bias, Sid. Your well-known Russian bias. The east somehow contains some magical elixir that bolsters the performances of anyone who performs there. If you really believe that, fine. But stretching that to include Richter isn't borne out by the evidence. There was no greater musical mind than Richter and to say he performed at his best in the east is simply...well, blind devotion to the east.

Like I said, if you really believe that, it's okay with me!!! Just don't expect the rest of the world to follow along (excepting the one or two compatriots of yours who exist conspicuously behind the scenes, here).

Of course the '70s weren't late for him--his most intense Scriabin sonata 5 comes from that time, in Prague--

Then why the implication that the Tours recordings were "later" in his career (in the '70's) and thus inferior?

Previous discussions on the matter (between GMGers) of late Richter invariably lead to the conclusion his powers waned at this time. So for you to reference the Tours recordings as 'late' leads me to believe you're beholden to this view.

By the time he appeared in NY, he was already 45. I'd guess that the majority of his recordings were made here. That neither means he enjoyed recording nor enjoyed being here, and I think it would be wishful thinking if you simply look at quantity--or focus on listening to these recordings--and presume everything was fine.

Apologies, Sid, but I can't make out the meaning of this.

The London Hammerklavier, if that's the one where he fluffed the finale and repeated it as an encore, then I think that says it all.

So, now, all of a sudden, note-perfection is your criteria for a great performance? When did this transformation occur?

If someone genuinely prefers the western recordings, I have no problem with that, provided much is surveyed beforehand.

Been there, done that, Sid. I'd been listening to eastern Richter recordings since before you were potty trained. From the likes of Parnassus, Praga, Melodiya, Russian Revelation, Music & Arts...not to mention a whole host of pirate recordings. So naturally I feel comfortable refuting your claim that the east is the best.

What I do have a problem with is the rather odd dismissal of the very idea that he played better in the east.

It's "odd" to believe because you are the only soul on the planet I've ever encountered that believes such a thing. Not even Gerber, who runs Parnassus Records, has made such a claim (that I'm aware). And he's in a unique position to say so, yes?

Like I said, I don't CARE if you hold to 'east is best' but earlier you couched your views in some sort of clairvoyant jargon that is completely untenable, to wit: "Richter felt more comfortable in the east". You can't blame me for focusing on this because your entire argument seems to be inexorably linked to this idea. One follows the other...

Finally, as for 'not one shred of historical data', I think you should look into this more.

Nice try...

[sidoze]

E. g., your statement that Richter felt more 'comfortable' in the east.

The fact is that Richter expressed feeling uncomfortable in the west, at least in certain parts, and his behavour often confirms this. I'm surprised you continue to ignore this.

Well, if you've heard all those eastern bloc recordings, are you telling me that you prefer the western ones?

I listened to his 1974 Moscow Prokofiev 8 tonight. Blows everything else away.

But in all honesty I can understand why you wouldn't like the eastern ones. If memory serves you're also not so interested in Kondrashin or Mravinsky conducting Shostakovich. So if I'm biased one way, I could conclude that you're biased in favour of less wild and extreme interpretations  (i.e. biased against Richter in the east). Hence your preference 

[sidoze]

Can any of these Richter Parnassus releases be considered must-haves? Is the sound OK?

If you can listen and enjoy the Lhevinne--great choice by the way--then you shouldn't have a problem with them. They were out-of-print for some time but Parnassus might have reissued them after the Richter lawsuit went out the window. I'm not sure. The only one I recall fondly is the 2cd set of Rach Preludes (I think it had the Tchaikovsky sonata on it). It included what was for me the perfect Gm prelude, op. 23/5.

[sidoze]

I'd been listening to eastern Richter recordings since before you were potty trained.

Expressions like this annoy me no end. What's the point of saying it? Firstly, do you think I don't know that? And secondly, do you really want me to say that I'll be listening to Richter recordings when you're being potty trained again?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The fact is that Richter expressed feeling uncomfortable in the west, at least in certain parts

Really? What "parts"? I mean, besides America, for which his distaste is legendary.

As I've taken pains to point out all "parts" of Europe were accessible to Richter. Hence his lifelong crisscrossing of the continent...

and his behavour often confirms this.

His behavior confirms no such thing. You cite his rural Russian tours, his visits to Prague and such, and I cite his visits to France, Italy, Germany, England, including his frequent visits to London! Fact is, he traveled all over the European map!!!!

So just what is it in his 'behavior' that should lead anyone to believe he disliked the west? The evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of a more rounded - not to mention more thick skinned! - Richter.

And really, having such an argument based on your supposed intuition into Richter's mindset is distinctly distasteful. Please come up with something that isn't so suffocatingly patronizing and empty so as to bring something tangible to your argument.

I'm surprised you continue to ignore this.

The ignoring is distinctly yours, Sid.

Well, if you've heard all those eastern bloc recordings, are you telling me that you prefer the western ones?

Again, your bias is betrayed by your misattributions. I never said I prefer "Richter West" to "Richter East". Read my posts again.

I listened to his 1974 Moscow Prokofiev 8 tonight. Blows everything else away.

Okay...

But in all honesty I can understand why you wouldn't like the eastern ones. If memory serves you're also not so interested in Kondrashin or Mravinsky conducting Shostakovich. So if I'm biased one way, I could conclude that you're biased in favour of less wild and extreme interpretations  (i.e. biased against Richter in the east). Hence your preference 

As I pointed out I'm not biased in any way. If anything, I'm biased towards your supposed clairvoyance into Richter's thinking.

If you read my posts you'd understand that...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Expressions like this annoy me no end. What's the point of saying it? Firstly, do you think I don't know that? And secondly, do you really want me to say that I'll be listening to Richter recordings when you're being potty trained again?

It was a reference to your "old boy" quip to me a few days ago.

It was meant as a joke...

[sidoze]

Really? What "parts"? I mean, besides America, for which his distaste is legendary.

I believe a few places are mentioned in the Conversations book. Obviously all Europe was open to him and he took advantage of it--it made him filthy rich let's not forget, and his skin was thick enough to put music first most of the time -- after all, he didn't give up on the US on the first go. There's also the words of his friends, some of whom have said where his home was, or where he felt at home anyway.

But really this was never my point. I wanted to focus on how the recordings sounded, and once again last night's Prokofiev 8 in Moscow confirmed that he played at home in a way he didn't play elsewhere. Wouldn't you call that comfort?

So just what is it in his 'behavior' that should lead anyone to believe he disliked the west?

The cancellations perhaps?

Please come up with something that isn't so suffocatingly patronizing and empty so as to bring something tangible to your argument.

Please relisten to the recordings and note the differences. But I think we've already established that you don't like Richter at his wildest.

I never said I prefer "Richter West" to "Richter East". Read my posts again.

To me you haven't given any indication that you note any difference between the recordings!

It was a reference to your "old boy" quip to me a few days ago.

Well I apologise for that. I said it without focusing on the word old, and meant it just in a friendly way. I will go back to dude from now on.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

But really this was never my point. I wanted to focus on how the recordings sounded, and once again last night's Prokofiev 8 in Moscow confirmed that he played at home in a way he didn't play elsewhere. Wouldn't you call that comfort?

I've already given you my definition of comfort. It's all spelled out in my previous posts.

The cancellations perhaps?

Artists cancel all the time, no matter where they may be. Nothing new there...

Please relisten to the recordings and note the differences. But I think we've already established that you don't like Richter at his wildest.

Quite incorrect. In fact, I recently had an exchange between a mutual GMG friend about a certain Richter Chopin piece. We both agreed the 'wilder' one made more impact.

To me you haven't given any indication that you note any difference between the recordings!

As I've (once again) already established you are the only one who claims there is a difference! In all my Richter listening, east, west, north, south, nothing rings truer than Richter the "all-around" musician. No matter where he played.

Well I apologise for that. I said it without focusing on the word old, and meant it just in a friendly way. I will go back to dude from now on.

I much prefer 'old boy' to dude. My 'potty trained' quip was as much a term of endearment as your 'old boy' comment was. 'Else why would I have put a big, full-teethed smiley right after my remark? 0:) --->

[Iago]

Unstoppable??
"Death"stopped him, as it stops everyone else.

[sidoze]

As I've (once again) already established you are the only one who claims there is a difference! In all my Richter listening, east, west, north, south, nothing rings truer than Richter the "all-around" musician. No matter where he played.

Well, if you can't hear the difference between his different recordings of the same piece, then the conversation ends there.

Then again, you said that you preferred the wilder one above. I don't really know what you're trying to say. You do or don't hear differences? The all-round thing isn't interesting as we already know Richter was a genius.

In any case, hear it or not, each Richter performance is different, and nearly all the wilder ones come from the eastern bloc.