James Levine

[Parsifal]

Could you (or somebody else, for that matter) indicate a person, or an organization, who / which hindered the career of a female conductor?

Maris Jansons.

The typical development path for a conductor is to work as assistant conductor and/or be mentored by working conductors. Abbado and Ozawa were protegees of von Karajan, if memory serves. Maris Janson's statement "woman conductors are not my cup of tea" seems like a fairly unambiguous indication that "females need not apply." No. Maris Janson is not the only person who can foster the career of an aspiring conductor, but if his attitude is the default, there is your block for female conductors.

There is also the factor that orchestras may not respect the authority of a female conductor. Well, if von Karajan or Solti had summoned a female to the podium and said, 'here is my new assistance conductor, who will be leading the preliminary rehearsals this week. Any Questions?" that might have helped.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

You like it because it is American?  Does all American music share some quality that you find especially pleasing?

No, but frankly SA, in view of your eclectic and wide-ranging tastes, I'm surprised to receive such a reply from you. You don't strike me as the sort of guy who'd be satisfied with endless Beethoven and Brahms cycles played under "star conductors" until the end of time.

Let me concretize this. I was willing to go downtown and pay the ever increasing ticket prices to hear Slatkin conduct Schuman's 6th Symphony a couple of years ago. I'm not willing to do that to hear Muti conduct Brahms, even if Brahms is a better composer than Schuman.

[Florestan]

Maris Jansons.

Please name the female conductor(s) whose career was hindered by him.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

But that's exactly the point I'm trying to make: It takes a far broader and more broad-minded change, to level THAT playing-field. Some think that aggression speeds up the process; I say patience, within limits, may do more... depending on the situation. Moreover, the "cup of tea" statement doesn't suggest that someone's mind is closed. Prejudice is actually OK, within fairly wide limits, if one is aware of it and if one doesn't discriminate based on it.

This reminds me of something Orwell said in one of his essays, that if you have a prejudice, probably the best approach is to recognize it and try not to let it poison your thinking. (I wish I could find the exact quote, but I have to get back to work now.)

[Brian]

Please name the female conductor(s) whose career was hindered by him.

This reply is not logical and you know it. Jansons is guilty as member of a regime system which suppressed female voices, not as a specific hinderer of specific careers. There are probably 20+ female conductors we cannot name, and we cannot name them because they were discouraged by teachers, professionals, role models, etc., from pursuing a career in which they were not welcome.

[yekov]

I don't know James Levine. I enjoyed some of his performances and I assume he's a great conductor. However, what's been happening with celebrities and rich people over the past couple of months is something like the great purge of 1930s . Every male celebrity must be now living a nightmare that someone could accuse him of anything even if it didn't happen or was unintentional some decades ago. The accusations should be in court not on the internet.

[Parsifal]

Moreover, the "cup of tea" statement doesn't suggest that someone's mind is closed.

I would prefer not to tie this to too closely Jansons, because I really don't know what is in his heart.

But my interpretation of that language is just the opposite. If he had said "I haven't come across any female conductors that are really effective" that would be an empirical preference that could be modified by more experience. When he says "woman conductors are not my cup of tea" that sounds like a preference that he does not intend to question or revise, even in light of new evidence.

[Parsifal]

This reply is not logical and you know it. Jansons is guilty as member of a regime system which suppressed female voices, not as a specific hinderer of specific careers. There are probably 20+ female conductors we cannot name, and we cannot name them because they were discouraged by teachers, professionals, role models, etc., from pursuing a career in which they were not welcome.

+1

[Florestan]

Jansons is guilty as member of a regime system which suppressed female voices, not as a specific hinderer of specific careers.

No offense meant but you sound exactly like the communist commissars who sent hundreds of thousands of people to jail in Romania after 1947: "Even if you personally have not done anything wrong or bad against the proletariat, the very fact that you are a member of the bourgeois regime system marks you as an enemy of the people".

There are probably 20+ female conductors we cannot name, and we cannot name them because they were discouraged by teachers, professionals, role models, etc., from pursuing a career in which they were not welcome.

Here's a question for you (and others): exactly how many female conductors are there?

[Todd]

It would also be okay for him to say . . . "Jewish conductors are not my cup of tea?"

This would be a very odd thing for Jansons to say.

[Todd]

You got me there, I guess I'm negligent for failing to maintain a database of who's Jewish.

No database needed: Google it. 

[Mahlerian]

100% of the composers constituing the canon of Western music, and who are listened to and discussed here on GMG on a daily basis, are male. 98% (and I'm being generous) of the great pianists or violinists (men and women alike) discussed and listened to here on GMG on a daily basis recorded music written by males only. Why is this amply documented GMG behavior not deemed derisory or condescending towards women? (Or maybe it is, who knows...)

I listen to music by women composers regularly.  I should think anyone who listens to contemporary music does the same.  The reason why there weren't "great women composers" during the common practice period has more to do with societal dynamics than some sort of innate deficit of ability, the same as with conductors.

[Parsifal]

Jansons did not say, "it's difficult for a female conductor to gain the respect of a professional orchestra," he said, in effect, " I don't want to see female conductors." Why is that acceptable?

To be honest, you have made me feel that classical music establishment is something despicable. I have a $100 dollar gift card sitting in my amazon account and I was assuming it would go to classical purchases. You have caused me to resolve that not one penny will go to classical music. I don't feel good about supporting the misogyny.

[Brian]

Damn. Scarpia was a great great GMGer and I'm not happy that Levine, or you guys, or the establishment, or whomever persuaded him to quit.

[amw]

The classical music establishment is indeed awful and misogynistic, always has been. If you feel uncomfortable with that, one good way to change the culture is to support female artists and executives and call out misogynists and other creeps loudly and persistently. It's up to you whether you want to buy the music of the various misogynists. (On the left we typically say there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. But obviously since you need to consume certain things in order to survive, avoiding consumption is not an option—you focus on overthrowing capitalism. I think the same principle applies to classical music, except for the part about you needing to consume it in order to survive, obviously)

[Mirror Image]

Damn. Scarpia was a great great GMGer and I'm not happy that Levine, or you guys, or the establishment, or whomever persuaded him to quit.

A shame that he had to leave this way. He and I weren't always on the same page, but I respected his opinions. Let's hope he has a change of heart. Scarpia, if you're reading this, don't leave!

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Scarpia, damned: Disagree with us, get annoyed at us... but don't quit on us.

Your opinion is valuable to us -- and the more we disagree with it, the more we need it. Don't deprive us of diversity on select issues, because you think that... well, I don't know what you think, to be honest. Just get back in, if you will. I've quit this in a huff, twice... which was silly esp. the second time around (the first time I let Karl Henning scare me off --  ). But it's more fun with the multitudes. Also, I'm not happy that you think we're all rampaging sexists that help keep this business in the dark ages. I don't think that's truly the intention/opinion/aim of any of us.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I listen to music by women composers regularly.  I should think anyone who listens to contemporary music does the same.  The reason why there weren't "great women composers" during the common practice period has more to do with societal dynamics than some sort of innate deficit of ability, the same as with conductors.

Florestan's great infatuation with Romanticism probably means he is well aware of the societal dynamics of the past, and the so called 'western canon' is something he surely knows only resulted from this............

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

The classical music establishment is indeed awful and misogynistic, always has been. If you feel uncomfortable with that, one good way to change the culture is to support female artists and executives and call out misogynists and other creeps loudly and persistently. It's up to you whether you want to buy the music of the various misogynists. (On the left we typically say there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. But obviously since you need to consume certain things in order to survive, avoiding consumption is not an option—you focus on overthrowing capitalism. I think the same principle applies to classical music, except for the part about you needing to consume it in order to survive, obviously)

Also my gratefulness that the 'metoo' movement on social media has at least become as mainstream movement in a misogynistic world.......

Well I think we have to live with the reality of capitalism being the main economic system in which contemporary society operates and it certainly is possible to be a socially conscious consumer.......but I think that putting the onus on consumers to be socially conscious will not really do anything to change the fact that an orchestra or opera company might regularly hire a misogynist or rapist or whatever. It is up to board members and those who have particular power to make decisions like that to say 'it is against the company standards to have a conductor who believes misogynistic things and therefore we won't hire them' or 'due to the great wealth of underrepresented contemporary composers who aren't male, we aim to support the talents of those whose music we believe is of the highest quality by reaching out to more underrepresented composers' and stuff like that.

You probably agree, or have a better understanding of this than I do, though.

But I do feel that society tends to make individual consumers make decisions rather than those with the power to do so addressing the roots of the problems themselves.......

[Florestan]

Scarpia, damned: Disagree with us, get annoyed at us... but don't quit on us.

Your opinion is valuable to us -- and the more we disagree with it, the more we need it. Don't deprive us of diversity on select issues, because you think that... well, I don't know what you think, to be honest. Just get back in, if you will. [...] I'm not happy that you think we're all rampaging sexists that help keep this business in the dark ages. I don't think that's truly the intention/opinion/aim of any of us.

My thoughts exactly.