Author Topic: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance  (Read 12301 times)

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Offline Bogey

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Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« on: October 09, 2011, 03:08:23 PM »
I have this....would like to have more on the shelf:



PS

At what date, in general, do you start your baroque timeline and where does it end?
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Offline PaulSC

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 03:35:10 PM »
I have this....would like to have more on the shelf:



PS

At what date, in general, do you start your baroque timeline and where does it end?

I don't know that disc, although it looks interesting, and I'm not terribly knowledgeable about Spanish Baroque music (my favorite composer of the same, Domenico Scarlatti, isn't even Spanish). But in response to your PS, I think boundary dates of 1600 to 1750 make sense if you grant that music from the beginning of that period has antecedents in the Renaissance and that the end of that period saw the rise of early-Classical styles in e.g. the music of Bach's sons.

Of course, it's a long way to go from composers like Claudio Monteverdi and Girolamo Frescobaldi to Johan Sebastian Bach and George Frederick Handel...
Musik ist ein unerschöpfliches Meer. — Joseph Riepel

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 09:04:09 AM »
Spanish Baroque is very interesting topic, on which unfortunately I know very little. Some rather superficial reading I did some time ago suggested that 17th century as back end of Siglo de oro represented decline of Spanish music after reaching its heights at late renaissance with likes of Morales, Guerrero and Victoria while 18th century was completely dominated by Italian style and musicians. But obviously it's not as clear cut as that. Spanish Baroque sees development of villancicos, tientos, zarzuelas, and basically what we today know as 'Spanish' sound and music, so it's definitely worth exploring. Again unfortunately I never got very far, but there are quite enough recordings available for someone who is interested. Forerunners have to be Spanish ensemble Al Ayre Espanol, if put through amazon search at least dozen discs will show, mostly with mixed repertoire but also two complete theatrical pieces by Antonio de Literes. Jordi Savall also recorded some, both for Virgin and Allia Vox, including complete disc devoted to Joan Cabanilles who is usually regarded as the most important of Spanish 17th century composers. Soprano Maria Bayo recorded two discs of arias by Jose de Nebra, probably the best Spanish 18th century opera composer (I have one of those discs, on Naive, and it is excellent). A complete recording of zarzuela Iphigenia en Tracia by de Nebra should come out on Glossa shortly. 
Then of course there is the question of Spanish composers who moved to South America, like Juan de Araujo or Tomas de Torrejon y Velasco.
Some of those questions were addressed by Eduardo Lopez Banzo (leader of Al Ayre Espanol) in this not so recent but still interesting interview:
http://www.culturekiosque.com/klassik/intervie/rhelopez.htm       

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 09:16:01 AM »
I only have works by Seixas and Soler, both of whom followed after Scarlatti. Other then that Spanish baroque is nearly non-existent in my collection.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 06:37:20 AM »
I only have works by Seixas and Soler, both of whom followed after Scarlatti. Other then that Spanish baroque is nearly non-existent in my collection.

Seixas was portuguese, not spanish.
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Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 06:50:04 AM »
Seixas was portuguese, not spanish.

Same thing, innit?

Offline val

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 11:47:20 PM »
Quote
Josquin des Prez

Same thing, innit?

It depends. Yes, if you consider that Copland is an USA composer or Canadian (it's the same thing),  Dvorak a Czech composer or Polish (it's the same thing),  Grieg a Norwegian composer or Swedish (it's the same thing) or Purcell a Brittish composer or French (it's the same thing).

On the other hand, since Portugal and Spain are separated, as two independent countries for almost 900 years, it is not the same thing.

Offline The new erato

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 01:26:55 AM »

On the other hand, since Portugal and Spain are separated, as two independent countries for almost 900 years, it is not the same thing.
They have much more sharply divided histories, not to mention languages, than Denmark, Norway or Sweden.

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2011, 04:49:33 AM »
This box set looks like it contains a disc of Spanish baroque. Might be worth a shot:

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Offline Geo Dude

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 05:06:51 PM »
This is an interesting thread which seems to have died a bit early.  Is anyone familiar with composers of solo harpsichord music (Soler and Scarlatti aside) or solo organ music from the Spanish Baroque period?

Offline Que

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 10:59:57 PM »
This box set looks like it contains a disc of Spanish baroque. Might be worth a shot:



I actually contains Medieval and Renaissance Music. And has been reissued in a (even cheaper) slim line box, instead of this bulky one that is wasting my shelf space... ::) :)

Q

Offline Bogey

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 06:51:56 PM »
Just ordered this one after sampling (which can be found on this link):



I am sure I will follow up with Vol. II, but this year I am trying to limit myself to 1 cd per week, so maybe next Friday I will order it.  By doing so, I am finding that I am actually able to listen to them a few times through before my next one arrives. ;D

Thanks Miloš for the article above, which lead me to this recording.
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Offline Que

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 12:06:39 AM »
Just ordered this one after sampling (which can be found on this link):



I am sure I will follow up with Vol. II, but this year I am trying to limit myself to 1 cd per week, so maybe next Friday I will order it.  By doing so, I am finding that I am actually able to listen to them a few times through before my next one arrives. ;D

I just ordered that one as well! So we can exchange notes. :)

Q

Offline Bogey

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 05:12:08 AM »
I just ordered that one as well! So we can exchange notes. :)

Q

Very cool!  If it catches my ear like the samples did, I could see myself purchasing more from this ensemble.  It seems that there is just not a ton to choose from in Spanish Baroque, especially when I tend to stay away from solo harpsichord and solo guitar ( though this one I prefer from time to time).  However, I only really looked for some last night and I am hoping that since this disc and others from this ensemble have various composers that this will lead to yet other discoveries of recorded music from this genre. 
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2012, 10:06:06 AM »
Hey Bill - this thread flew under my radar, but I must say that most of the Spanish Music in my collection is from the Medieval and Renaissance periods, including early examples w/ Moorish influence (don't know if we have a thread going on those two Spanish time slots but I could contribute more?).

But out of curiosity in searching a little on the web, I found the quote below from HERE; then clicking on the LINK to Iberian composers from the mid-1500s to the mid-1700s, there are none in this list in my CD collection (unless on some composite disc?) - now I do have some keyboard music of Soler but he was more a transition into the classical period.

So, just as a declining world power in the Baroque era, Spanish music was also in decline - the 'Age of Discovery' seems to be have been the glory years for the Iberian peninsula - Dave :)

Quote
Significant musical developments during the baroque period however, took place in other areas of Europe. Looking at the names of Spanish composers of 1650-1750, we find not one of any special note.

Offline Bogey

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 10:10:06 AM »
Hey Bill - this thread flew under my radar, but I must say that most of the Spanish Music in my collection is from the Medieval and Renaissance periods, including early examples w/ Moorish influence (don't know if we have a thread going on those two Spanish time slots but I could contribute more?).

But out of curiosity in searching a little on the web, I found the quote below from HERE; then clicking on the LINK to Iberian composers from the mid-1500s to the mid-1700s, there are none in this list in my CD collection (unless on some composite disc?) - now I do have some keyboard music of Soler but he was more a transition into the classical period.

So, just as a declining world power in the Baroque era, Spanish music was also in decline - the 'Age of Discovery' seems to be have been the glory years for the Iberian peninsula - Dave :)

Thanks for that quote, Dave.  Very cool and makes the search for Spanish baroque gems that much more fun.  Let the hunt begin! :)
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Offline Bogey

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2012, 07:19:46 AM »
Until recently, Spanish music of the 17th and 18th centuries was a mystery to most music lovers.  There seemed to be a great, soundless, black hole between, on the one hand, a dazzling 16th century, in which names such as Morales, Guerrero, and Victoria stand out among the many pinnacles in an imposing range of Iberian musicians, and on the other, the late 19th century with the explosion of colour represented by the music of Albeniz, Granados, and Falla.....

Nevertheless, there were glimmers of light in the darkness of oblivion, which spoke eloquently of the Iberian musical culture: the Italians Domenico Scarlatti and Luigi Boccherini....

Spanish baroque music for instrumental groups remains an enigma.  True, musical theorists and writers on musical aesthetics always suggest the predominance of the vocal over the instrumental.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence that instrumental musical was cultivated at court, among nobility and in the cathedrals.


These are all quotes that I found to be of interest to me in the liner notes of this newly arrived cd:



My wife and I both agree that the disc above has a more "Renaissance" sound than what we are used to with baroque.  However, we are enjoying the music so much so that I just ordered the next volume:



Que, did your Volume 1 disc arrive?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 07:21:49 AM by Bogey »
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Offline Que

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 11:44:04 PM »

Que, did your Volume 1 disc arrive?

Yes, it did. :) The day before yesterday - I might play it this morning.

The Spanish Baroque seems a neglected area of music. Maybe we should speak of "Iberian" Baroque since the Spanish form a musical family with the Portuguese (with the Spanish in the lead), or even "Hispanic" to include the music that was composed in the Spanish and Portuguese territories in the Americas. Note that the French label K617 dedicated a whole series Les Chemins du Baroque on that, consisting of 57 recordings! :o I believe you're interested in the history of the Americas, so it might worth investigating.  :)

Other things I noted about Spanish Baroque is that it is, probably due the religious and hence cultural conservatism that started under Philips II, conservative as well. A lot of musical conventions of the Renaissance continued to be used well into the Baroque era. The impulse for change and renewal came from outside Spain, from Italian and particularly Neapolitan composers and music. The huge influence of Domenico Scarlatti, who worked at the Portuguese and Spanish courts, is of course the prime example.

I'll posts some of the recordings I have in the coming time. :)

Q
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 11:55:53 PM by Que »

Offline Bogey

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 04:49:38 AM »
Yes, it did. :) The day before yesterday - I might play it this morning.

The Spanish Baroque seems a neglected area of music. Maybe we should speak of "Iberian" Baroque since the Spanish form a musical family with the Portuguese (with the Spanish in the lead), or even "Hispanic" to include the music that was composed in the Spanish and Portuguese territories in the Americas. Note that the French label K617 dedicated a whole series Les Chemins du Baroque on that, consisting of 57 recordings! :o I believe you're interested in the history of the Americas, so it might worth investigating.  :)

Other things I noted about Spanish Baroque is that it is, probably due the religious and hence cultural conservatism that started under Philips II, conservative as well. A lot of musical conventions of the Renaissance continued to be used well into the Baroque era. The impulse for change and renewal came from outside Spain, from Italian and particularly Neapolitan composers and music. The huge influence of Domenico Scarlatti, who worked at the Portuguese and Spanish courts, is of course the prime example.

I'll posts some of the recordings I have in the coming time. :)

Q

Oh, this is going to be cool!  *dusts off shelf space for onslaught of recordings that will be bought in the near future*
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Offline Bogey

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Re: Music from the Spanish & Portuguese Baroque and Renaissance
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2012, 09:00:52 AM »



Vol. II is much like Vol. I....the liner notes do discuss how musicians from Italy and France were brought into the courts during the baroque period.  Greta listening.

After Que's last post, this reminded me of music I had heard on the radio and enjoyed, so ordered Vol1:



Here is a neat news piece on this music from 2009:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-3445_162-2661717.html

This disc has been featured on our local classical channel may times.  I enjoyed what I heard so took the plunge.  Henry Villca Suntra is a composer featured on the disc.  Does anyone have any information of him?



There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz