Recordings That You Are Considering

[jlaurson]

I hope you'll enjoy them at least as much as I did.

Since I don't want to create yet another Karajan-related thread (for now), let me just post this KARAJAN ALERT here:

At the moment, the complete Karajan Symphony Edition is going for £32.27 on Amazon.co.uk - suffice to say, this is less than just the Beethoven cycle used to cost.
Urgently recommended for anyone lacking more than one of the cycles included!

Seconded. An incredible bargain with some _really_ excellent recordings that invariably appeal even to the Karajan-critical set of ears. (To my surprise, I found even the middle-Karajan-Beethoven cycle superb.)

[DavidRoss]

At the moment, the complete Karajan Symphony Edition is going for £32.27 on Amazon.co.uk - suffice to say, this is less than just the Beethoven cycle used to cost. Urgently recommended for anyone lacking more than one of the cycles included!

Since it appears that unflattering comments about prospective purchases are now frowned upon here , let me just say that anyone seeking a non-HIP big band Beethoven symphony cycle (and at a bargain price) might be well served by the Blomstedt/Dresden cycle offered by Brilliant Records.

[George]

At the moment, the complete Karajan Symphony Edition is going for £32.27 on Amazon.co.uk - suffice to say, this is less than just the Beethoven cycle used to cost. Urgently recommended for anyone lacking more than one of the cycles included!

Which recordings are these? I am curious if it's mostly stuff from the 60s or the 70s or the 80s. I'd also be interested in reading what folks think of the recordings contained within. I find that negative criticism can be just as useful as positive criticism. Assuming of course, that one actually describes why they don't like the performance, instead of simply slinging mud.   

[Bulldog]

Which recordings are these? I am curious if it's mostly stuff from the 60s or the 70s or the 80s. I'd also be interested in reading what folks think of the recordings contained within. I find that negative criticism can be just as useful as positive criticism. Assuming of course, that one actually describes why they don't like the performance, instead of simply slinging mud.   

If someone has a negative report about a prospective purchase, mud slinging is better than saying nothing.

[Renfield]

Since it appears that unflattering comments about prospective purchases are now frowned upon here , let me just say that anyone seeking a non-HIP big band Beethoven symphony cycle (and at a bargain price) might be well served by the Blomstedt/Dresden cycle offered by Brilliant Records.

Note that I mentioned the Beethoven cycle as an example. But, as far as I'm concerned, feel free to be as unflattering about my comments as you wish, by all means! As long as it's not ad hominem, any comment is fair game (for me).


In fact, I've only anecdotally heard unflattering/neutral comments on the Blomstedt, giving me the impression of its being fairly commonplace.

Any arguments for the contrary would be quite welcome.

Which recordings are these? I am curious if it's mostly stuff from the 60s or the 70s or the 80s. I'd also be interested in reading what folks think of the recordings contained within.

It's the contents of the previous symphony edition (in those pink boxes), plus his late Haydn, the Brahms Haydn Variations and (IIRC) Tragic Overture, an excellent live Schumann 4th Symphony with the VPO, and the Overture, Scherzo and Finale.

So the box contains the 1970's Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn and Schumann cycles, the 70's late Mozart symphonies, the Bruckner cycle, the 80's Haydn symphonies, and the extra recordings mentioned above.


From those, the Bruckner is the ne plus ultra cycle for many (including myself). The Beethoven is probably the best "Karajan" cycle (as Jens (Laurson) observes - and I agree), and thus recommended if you like what he and the BPO did with German symphonic music, stylistically. The Tchaikovsky is a safe choice, uniformly excellent. The Brahms is sleek and the orchestral playing does indeed (quoting Gramophone) "glow", but the 3rd is (IMO) a miss. The Schumann is Karajanised (i.e. stylistically 'violated'), but very good if you enjoy this - and the VPO 4th is superb. The Mozart is also Karajanised but less successful. Finally, the Haydn is old-school, but well worth hearing.


This is my "what I think in a nutshell".

[Haffner]

So the box contains the 1970's Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn and Schumann cycles, the 70's late Mozart symphonies, the Bruckner cycle, the 80's Haydn symphonies, and the extra recordings mentioned above.


From those, the Bruckner is the ne plus ultra cycle for many (including myself). The Beethoven is probably the best "Karajan" cycle (as Jens (Laurson) observes - and I agree), and thus recommended if you like what he and the BPO did with German symphonic music, stylistically. The Tchaikovsky is a safe choice, uniformly excellent. The Brahms is sleek and the orchestral playing does indeed (quoting Gramophone) "glow", but the 3rd is (IMO) a miss. The Schumann is Karajanised (i.e. stylistically 'violated'), but very good if you enjoy this - and the VPO 4th is superb. The Mozart is also Karajanised but less successful. Finally, the Haydn is old-school, but well worth hearing.


This is my "what I think in a nutshell".

This is well written, and I agree on all points. For cycles, the Bruckner is outstanding (keeping in mind better performances of the individual symphonies). The Brahms 1st is fantastic, the Tchaikovsky really good. Shoot, Renfield already said it!

[George]

This is well written, and I agree on all points. For cycles, the Bruckner is outstanding (keeping in mind better performances of the individual symphonies). The Brahms 1st is fantastic, the Tchaikovsky really good. Shoot, Renfield already said it!

Wow! I hadn't realized his complete Bruckner is in that set.  Luckily, I just got new CD storage. 

[Haffner]

Wow! I hadn't realized his complete Bruckner is in that set.  Luckily, I just got new CD storage. 

Yer gonna liiiiike it!

It's an outstanding set.

[Henk]

Somebody here who already listened to this set?

[George]

Yer gonna liiiiike it!

It's an outstanding set.

I wonder what shipping from the UK will cost?

[jlaurson]

In fact, I've only anecdotally heard unflattering/neutral comments on the Blomstedt, giving me the impression of its being fairly commonplace.
Any arguments for the contrary would be quite welcome.

You ask and you shall receive.

Also: It's no longer with Brilliant, now that Berlin Classics has clawed its copyright back.

The Blomstedt Beethoven cycle with the Staatskapelle Dresden has been available in many different versions – for many years as a super-budget box when Brilliant Classics licensed the recordings. I bemoaned that Brilliant chose the Kurt Masur/Leipzig recordings for their "Complete Beethoven" box, instead of the Dresdeners, but perhaps Brilliant's license had already run out and the rights gone back to Berlin Classics / Edel – the successor to the GDR's "VEB Schallplatten" ("People Owned Company – Records"). It would make sense, because Berlin Classics has now issued these recordings themselves, in a neat slim cardboard box at just a little more than Brilliant's asking price and with a higher production value thanks to a fine little booklet with good liner notes and a short biography of Herbert Blomstedt in English and German, but unfortunately no text for the last movement of the Ninth.

This Beethoven cycle is the epitome of everything that is good about "Kapellmeisterdom" – significantly broader than Karajan's (Blomstedt also ignores the exposition repeats), these are 'old-Europe' readings, steeped in the long tradition of the wonderful sounding Dresden Staatskapelle. etc.etc.

Not to be underestimated in the Karajan Box: His Mendelssohn far exceeds its reputation. In particular his 2nd (my favorite M-Symphony) which is second only to Dohnanyi (Decca, oop) and Bernius (Carus).  EDIT: I guess this makes it "third", not "second".

Old Style Beethoven Barenboim recommendation below is heartily seconded. (As it is in the review of Blomstedt [above link] itself.)

[Wanderer]

It's the contents of the previous symphony edition (in those pink boxes), plus his late Haydn, the Brahms Haydn Variations and (IIRC) Tragic Overture, an excellent live Schumann 4th Symphony with the VPO, and the Overture, Scherzo and Finale.

So the box contains the 1970's Beethoven...

I wasn't aware it's the 1970's Beethoven cycle that's included; this and the extra items alone are worth the above mentioned price (I have the older sets of everything else and agree with the positive assessments). The Bruckner cycle used to cost much more than that not so long ago.

[Brian]

Note that I mentioned the Beethoven cycle as an example. But, as far as I'm concerned, feel free to be as unflattering about my comments as you wish, by all means! As long as it's not ad hominem, any comment is fair game (for me).


In fact, I've only anecdotally heard unflattering/neutral comments on the Blomstedt, giving me the impression of its being fairly commonplace.

Any arguments for the contrary would be quite welcome.

I have heard that the Blomstedt is fantastic - in fact, have never heard negative comment on it. However, my recommendation for a non-HIP, ultra-German-romantic Beethoven cycle is most emphatically Daniel Barenboim's account with the Staatskapelle Berlin, which can be had on MDT for just $30. Simply superb performances in the grand old German tradition, and great sound besides. The perfect antidote to a HIP cycle like Gardiner's (I couldn't live without either).

[Renfield]

I have heard that the Blomstedt is fantastic - in fact, have never heard negative comment on it. However, my recommendation for a non-HIP, ultra-German-romantic Beethoven cycle is most emphatically Daniel Barenboim's account with the Staatskapelle Berlin, which can be had on MDT for just $30. Simply superb performances in the grand old German tradition, and great sound besides. The perfect antidote to a HIP cycle like Gardiner's (I couldn't live without either).

I have that one. I'm just being "academically curious" on the Blomstedt - I probably have more Beethoven cycles than is good for me.

Re the Karajan Symphony Edition, I forgot to comment on the Mendelssohn cycle, on which I would agree with Jens about the 2nd symphony, but which I would in general include under the description I gave of the Schumann (above), overall.

Edit: And I will investigate the Blomstedt further. Thanks for the instigation, DavidRoss, Jens, Brian!

[DavidRoss]

I find that negative criticism can be just as useful as positive criticism. Assuming of course, that one actually describes why they don't like the performance, instead of simply slinging mud.   

But, George...you are the very soul who recently chastized me twice for responding to consideration of Ashkenazy's Sibelius cycle by comparing his approach to Sibelius with putting ketchup on tacos--a poetically apt and admirably succinct analogy, I thought...though perhaps more obscure than "garnishing the sauce with little party umbrellas."

In fact, I've only anecdotally heard unflattering/neutral comments on the Blomstedt, giving me the impression of its being fairly commonplace.  Any arguments for the contrary would be quite welcome.

Unfavorable comments on this cycle would be unusual.  Given many past discussions on this site involving it, I thought virtually everyone who's familiar with it likes it quite a bit.  In addition to the review noted above, a quick Google turned up:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/aug02/beethovenbrill.htm
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=4894
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Symphonies-Box-Set/dp/B0002YCW2I, and
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,11451.msg340588.html#msg340588.

Incidentally, the Amazon link shows a number of Brilliant copies available from various sellers for little more than $20.

For cycles, [Karajan's] Bruckner is outstanding

I do think Bruckner's music responds to Karajan's treatment very well, indeed, and his 4th, 7th, & 9th are among my top choices in the works.

[Todd]

I figured it was just a matter of time until the Emerson SQ recorded Janacek, and next month it comes out.  The inclusion of a Martinu quartet adds to the appeal.  The only thing I think I need to consider is whether to buy it the day it comes out, or wait until the following weekend.

[George]

  But, George...you are the very soul who recently chastized me twice for responding to consideration of Ashkenazy's Sibelius cycle by comparing his approach to Sibelius with putting ketchup on tacos--a poetically apt and admirably succinct analogy, I thought...though perhaps more obscure than "garnishing the sauce with little party umbrellas."

David, I am going to try to be as explicit as I possibly can. I thought that I was clear from the start and then when I tried to explain again, I think you still missed my point.

I called you out on your comments twice (once for the taco and once for the Tammy Fae comment) because I felt that they were insulting and not descriptive of the actual music. Yes, you compared Ashy's Sibelius to putting ketchup on a taco. This, to me, says nothing about why you don't like it musically. Perhaps this is because I don't eat tacos and when I did, I ketchup didn't really enter the picture. I honestly have no problem with you not liking Ashy's Sibelius, in fact I admire the fact that you spoke up in the midst of all that praise. Like a number of our members here, you don't have any problem sharing your opinion of something, no matter how unpopular your opinion might be. The problem for me was that your comment didn't tell me why you didn't like it. Then when you said that "some people like Tammy Fae's makeup, some like Ashkenazy's Sibelius," it again felt to me like you were dismissing the Ashkenazy, rather than just saying a bit about why you disliked his interpretation. The latter is information that I think would be far more useful to readers of this thread. I know we have corresponded before via PM about Sibelius cycles and I know you have a lot to offer on the subject. Your insight at that time was very helpful to me and I recall that when you gave me your thoughts on these sets, there were no underhanded comments about Ashkenazy or other conductors that you liked.

Now, I certainly don't wish to tell you how to post, I merely was trying (and I am still trying) to give you my perspective on what you said.

[Haffner]

I do think Bruckner's music responds to Karajan's treatment very well, indeed, and his 4th, 7th, & 9th are among my top choices in the works.

Great choices. It's interesting how often that Karajan gets slammed for his hypothesized "pretty" treatment of Wagner, yet delivers the dramatic goods on Bruckner (and also, in my opinion, the Mahler 9th).

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Nice to see Martinu make a showing!

[Brian]

I have that one. I'm just being "academically curious" on the Blomstedt - I probably have more Beethoven cycles than is good for me.

Heh. I have seven complete Beethoven cycles (Karajan '62, Hogwood, Norrington EMI, Mackerras '06, Barenboim, Gardiner, Harnoncourt), which is probably a record for a teenager. 

MDT has the Blomstedt box for a mere $15, so I'm not sure why I haven't purchased it yet!

And, finally, couldn't DG come up with a better cover for the Emersons? That looks really goofy.