Author Topic: Thirty three and a third.  (Read 2814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline aligreto

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 16767
  • Location: Ireland
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2019, 06:02:47 AM »


Aligreto featured a post of a LP from the Contour label. Serious collectors of vinyl turn their collective nose up at these reissues which is brilliant news for aligreto and myself. They are plentiful and inexpensive, on average about £2 but are a treasure-trove of great music from the top artists of the day at DG, Philips and Decca. Each back-cover has prominently printed "This record has been specially pressed to classical record standards". I actually think they are! Both pressings and transfers are top quality, the only criticism is that the vinyl is thin, I do not put as much importance to weight of vinyl as some other collectors do.
An interesting side issue is the famous Ansermet Decca recording of Scheherzade which is coupled with Borodin's Polovtsian Dances of which a good early pressing you would expect to pay £50. The same recording on Contour is superior for the simple reason Polovtsian Dances is omitted allowing for wider groove spacing for Scheherzade, and costs a fraction of the Decca original. I have both and prefer the sound of the Contour pressing.

Yes, I have around twenty or so Contour LPs and enjoy them all. Despite the fact that they appear flimsy due to their being so thin I have never had an issue with any of them quality wise. However, let us keep this a secret between ourselves  ;D
The ability to talk comes with knowledge. The ability to listen comes with wisdom.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Location: USA
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2019, 07:45:06 AM »
Yes, I have around twenty or so Contour LPs and enjoy them all. Despite the fact that they appear flimsy due to their being so thin I have never had an issue with any of them quality wise. However, let us keep this a secret between ourselves  ;D
[/b]

...or to the three of us?   ;)  Thanks for the info gents though I probably won't run across many of the LPs where I live (but will file it away in the dusty and cobweb-filled back corners of my brain should I perhaps run across one of them).

PD

Offline Irons

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2019, 08:27:19 AM »
[/b]

...or to the three of us?   ;)  Thanks for the info gents though I probably won't run across many of the LPs where I live (but will file it away in the dusty and cobweb-filled back corners of my brain should I perhaps run across one of them).

PD

A sister label in the US, Quintessence.

Contour Classics list https://www.discogs.com/label/89072-Contour-Red-Label

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Location: USA
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #83 on: January 08, 2019, 10:17:16 AM »
A sister label in the US, Quintessence.

Contour Classics list https://www.discogs.com/label/89072-Contour-Red-Label

Thank you for the tip.  I wonder how the pressings compare?  I believe that I have picked up a few of the Quintessence ones from one or more charity shops.  I know that I've at least seen them....is anyone else here familiar with their pressings?  When I have a chance, I'll dig amongst my LPs a bit...trying to recall what I might have purchased and brought home with me!   :-[

Offline aligreto

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 16767
  • Location: Ireland
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2019, 10:38:05 AM »
Thank you for the tip.  I wonder how the pressings compare?  I believe that I have picked up a few of the Quintessence ones from one or more charity shops.  I know that I've at least seen them....is anyone else here familiar with their pressings?  When I have a chance, I'll dig amongst my LPs a bit...trying to recall what I might have purchased and brought home with me!   :-[

No need for embarrassment here, we all do that. That is why we are here  ;D
The ability to talk comes with knowledge. The ability to listen comes with wisdom.

Offline Irons

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2019, 08:35:02 AM »
I have not listened to Hi-res (not even sure what it is) but a view from someone who has. https://youtu.be/z4OJo8RVueA

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3203
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2019, 10:32:09 AM »
Thank you for the tip.  I wonder how the pressings compare?  I believe that I have picked up a few of the Quintessence ones from one or more charity shops.  I know that I've at least seen them....is anyone else here familiar with their pressings?

I've had a few Quintessences - I think their main biz was US licensing of European labels. I had some that were originally on Supraphon, but the only one I have now is Leonhardt's 3rd and final Goldbergs, originally on DHM. Pressing sounds great to me, no problems at all.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline Irons

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2019, 03:08:58 AM »
I've had a few Quintessences - I think their main biz was US licensing of European labels. I had some that were originally on Supraphon, but the only one I have now is Leonhardt's 3rd and final Goldbergs, originally on DHM. Pressing sounds great to me, no problems at all.

Interestingly, Quintessence was a source for the Readers Digest boxes. I was always under the impression that RCA were the sole provider of recordings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintessence_Records


Offline Pohjolas Daughter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Location: USA
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2019, 08:36:09 AM »
Thank you Archaic Torso of Apollo for your feedback.

Interesting, Irons, I didn't know that!

PD

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1754
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #89 on: January 15, 2019, 07:28:26 PM »
I recently finished digitizing/FLAC-ing the Ginette Doyen Songs Without Words cycle on 1950s Westminster (a wonderful complete set obtained last year on eBay). The set is a real joy, played with great sensitivity (but not sentimentality), a great beauty of tone, and the wonderful mono Westminster sonics I have always appreciated.



NOTE: The track listings on the back cover (but not the record label) are horribly inaccurate.

Vol 2 not online! I had to photograph it myself--green cover. Have not post-processed it yet!



She did not record very much, but the Faure violin sonatas, Handel violin Sonatas with Jean Fournier (her husband), and a disc of CHabrier 10 Pieces Pittoresques are on my list of future eBay purchases.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 07:31:08 PM by XB-70 Valkyrie »
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline Irons

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2019, 12:48:40 AM »
I recently finished digitizing/FLAC-ing the Ginette Doyen Songs Without Words cycle on 1950s Westminster (a wonderful complete set obtained last year on eBay). The set is a real joy, played with great sensitivity (but not sentimentality), a great beauty of tone, and the wonderful mono Westminster sonics I have always appreciated.



NOTE: The track listings on the back cover (but not the record label) are horribly inaccurate.

Vol 2 not online! I had to photograph it myself--green cover. Have not post-processed it yet!



She did not record very much, but the Faure violin sonatas, Handel violin Sonatas with Jean Fournier (her husband), and a disc of CHabrier 10 Pieces Pittoresques are on my list of future eBay purchases.

Very nice indeed! Were your eBay purchases clean pressings? I realise that you are able to smooth out the sound in the digital domain but understand to do this successfully requires some skill and patience. I am told clean-up programs have a detrimental effect on the sound. Which method do you use and how do you find the results?

I know of Ginette Doyen. Although I have many recordings by her husband, both as a violinist and conductor, sadly none by her. I see she has also made a Debussy recording.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 02:27:54 AM by Irons »

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Location: USA
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2019, 06:40:26 AM »
I hadn't heard of Ginette Doyen before now.  Did she record much?  I'll have to keep an eye out for her albums.

PD

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1754
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2019, 11:54:05 PM »
Hi,

Ginette Doyen did not record a whole lot, but including records as an accompanist, there seem to be about a dozen doyen.  :laugh:

I do not use any noise reduction software in digitizing LPs. Surface noise does not bother me as long as it is not excessive. And of course, the older the disc is, the more there will be in general. The Doyen Mendelssohn records are from the early 50s (With few exceptions, I always prefer first pressings) and there is more noise than what you'd get with something newer. It is part of the charm. I would not try to make an LP sound like a CD; it would trash the sonics. Some noise is just a part of the medium, like grain with film and imperfections in old movie reels, sediment in fine red wine, grain in wood, etc. Some of the best and most interesting things in life have some sort of surface texture and imperfections... 

I clean all of my records on a Keith Monks or Clearaudio machine and I am quite picky about condition to begin with. Still, one cannot see all defects, and occasionally, if there is a loud pop, I can edit that out quite easily in Audacity--zoom way in, and the amount of time I end up deleting is well under a second--barely noticeable. I do this more to save my speakers than anything else...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 12:10:18 AM by XB-70 Valkyrie »
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7098
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #93 on: January 18, 2019, 12:29:48 AM »

I do not use any noise reduction software in digitizing LPs. Surface noise does not bother me as long as it is not excessive. And of course, the older the disc is, the more there will be in general. The Doyen Mendelssohn records are from the early 50s (With few exceptions, I always prefer first pressings) and there is more noise than what you'd get with something newer. It is part of the charm. I would not try to make an LP sound like a CD; it would trash the sonics. Some noise is just a part of the medium, like grain with film and imperfections in old movie reels, sediment in fine red wine, grain in wood, etc. Some of the best and most interesting things in life have some sort of surface texture and imperfections... 

I agree very much with this. When digitizing all my LPs (and cassette tapes) some twenty years ago. I aimed particularly at retaining the "air" of the LPs, so neither did I use noise reduction - having (of course) secured that the surface of the LP was clean. Often an antistatic pistol was all what was needed.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 12:35:51 AM by (: premont :) »
Tiden læger alle sår,
heldigt nok at tiden går.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Location: USA
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #94 on: January 18, 2019, 05:54:52 AM »
Thank you for the further info (and for the bad/good play on words too!).  I haven't tried digitizing any LPs before (save a few 78's done years ago onto a cassette--a parent's special Christmas LPs), but do have a RCM which I've used to clean up some LPs when needed.   :)

Enjoy your douzaine of the doyenne Doyen!

PD

Offline Irons

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2019, 06:37:47 AM »
Hi,

Ginette Doyen did not record a whole lot, but including records as an accompanist, there seem to be about a dozen doyen.  :laugh:

I do not use any noise reduction software in digitizing LPs. Surface noise does not bother me as long as it is not excessive. And of course, the older the disc is, the more there will be in general. The Doyen Mendelssohn records are from the early 50s (With few exceptions, I always prefer first pressings) and there is more noise than what you'd get with something newer. It is part of the charm. I would not try to make an LP sound like a CD; it would trash the sonics. Some noise is just a part of the medium, like grain with film and imperfections in old movie reels, sediment in fine red wine, grain in wood, etc. Some of the best and most interesting things in life have some sort of surface texture and imperfections... 

I clean all of my records on a Keith Monks or Clearaudio machine and I am quite picky about condition to begin with. Still, one cannot see all defects, and occasionally, if there is a loud pop, I can edit that out quite easily in Audacity--zoom way in, and the amount of time I end up deleting is well under a second--barely noticeable. I do this more to save my speakers than anything else...

So refreshing to read your post. Surface noise is system dependent but as you point out it is not such a big deal anyway. There are extraneous noises at a live concert which our brain filters out. Sit down alone in a crowded pub and beam in on a person across the room, you will hear their conservation above all the other noise. I am seldom aware of surface noise playing vinyl, as pressings are clean, my system does not highlight it and most importantly I concentrate on the music. 

Offline aligreto

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 16767
  • Location: Ireland
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2019, 09:29:06 AM »
Vinyl hygiene is very important to help eliminate excessive surface noise as we all know. I believe that the attention to detail in terms of storage, handling and cleaning is one of the major factors in precluding some from re-entering this market. I am constantly surprised at the condition of many of the LPs that I pick up second hand. They are not scratched or damaged [I would not buy them otherwise] but some of them can be quite dirty. However, they generally clean up very well. I can never understand how they can be let get into that condition by previous owners.
The ability to talk comes with knowledge. The ability to listen comes with wisdom.

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1754
Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #97 on: January 20, 2019, 06:00:19 PM »
Typically, spindle tracks on the label (laziness and/or insufficient light  ::) ) and ring wear on the cover are warning signs the LP may have been abused. Also, generally, I've noted the more obscure the music, the more likely the LP will be in good condition. Everyone 50 years ago probably had a Beethoven 5, whereas people in that time period with Schubert songs, Bach cantatas, Second Viennese School, etc. would have had to hunt to find those items and, they were generally not cheap (generally pretty expensive in inflation adjusted terms).

Anyway, this is today's digitization. Hollywood SQ playing Tchaikovsky and Borodin. The sonics on these Capitol LPs were always quite good (later stereos were stunning in some cases), very little inner groove distortion and they were able to pack in 50+ mins of music with no compression. The Hollywood SQ had a lean, muscular, analytic sound, and they always played with great enthusiasm and energy. They do not have the lush, dark sound I prefer in some SQ repertiore as with the Budapest, Baryilli, Paganini (with Henri Temianka) Curtis SQs for example. But, their recordings are always worth collecting, and their approach I find refreshing, especially in more modern repertoire (their Villa-Lobos is incredible). A very nice LP that had been sitting around neglected for 25+ years on my shelves.



« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 06:08:09 PM by XB-70 Valkyrie »
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff