Author Topic: Mozart - String Quartets  (Read 6196 times)

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2019, 03:12:52 PM »
I was talking about Mozart, not about Renaissance polyphonists. Josquin or Bach. And moreover, I was talking from the point of view of the ordinary listener. Feel free to think you are not in the latter category.

Mozart published works too, you know. You seem under the weird illusion that because we don't use his opus numbers, there weren't any.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2019, 01:42:43 AM »
Mozart published works too, you know. You seem under the weird illusion that because we don't use his opus numbers, there weren't any.

That is not my point. My point is that listening to a Mozart quartet in his days was more often than not a once-in-a-lifetime event.
“Meanwhile thy spirit lifts its pinions
In music's most serene dominions;
Catching the winds that fan that happy heaven.
And we sail on, away, afar
Without a course, without a star,
But by the instinct of sweet music driven." — Shelley

Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2019, 01:43:43 AM »
Of course. If I wouldn't yield to Mozart or Haydn as far as musical authority goes, I'd be a fool, wouldn't I?
This doesn't mean that I have to yield everything personal and not form an opinion of my own.
But this is not about critical thinking, finding flaws in argument or whatever but letting one's taste be shaped by great works of art. Their authority is unavoidable but it's not "accidental" authority.

Don't get me wrong, I love those quartets. And Mozart is in my top 3 favorite composers.
“Meanwhile thy spirit lifts its pinions
In music's most serene dominions;
Catching the winds that fan that happy heaven.
And we sail on, away, afar
Without a course, without a star,
But by the instinct of sweet music driven." — Shelley

Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2019, 01:44:41 AM »
Not only is this right, it exactly what Andrei argues most of the time!

 ;D

I guess I was in argumentative mood, again.  :)
“Meanwhile thy spirit lifts its pinions
In music's most serene dominions;
Catching the winds that fan that happy heaven.
And we sail on, away, afar
Without a course, without a star,
But by the instinct of sweet music driven." — Shelley

Offline Jo498

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2019, 01:57:37 AM »
Actually, the 6 quartets dedicated to Haydn were probably Mozart's most important published work. They received opus number 10 for a nice round number. It's hard to overstress the special status of these pieces. Mozart worked on them (while doing other stuff in between) for more than 2 years which was very uncommon for him. They are hugely ambitious, taking some inspiration from Haydn but overall far longer, usually more complex, more passionate and daring than his op.33.

And for the historical perspective, some music (keyboard, chamber) was at least as much written with the players (and sometimes other composers) in mind as with the listeners. Not everything was a "once in a lifetime experience". Even pieces that could fall out of fashion rather quickly, like operas would usually be given a season or more at one place, they would be (often very slightly) overhauled and played again a few years later. Excerpts would be published for playing them at home. There are letters in which Mozart asks his father so send him music from his Salzburg years because he apparently wanted to perform some of his "juvenilia" in Vienna, in the case of the piano concerto K 175 he almost certainly "beefed it up" with a new finale and played it in Vienna despite the huge advancements he had made in this form in the almost 10 years in between.
While it was of course rather different from today (not the least because of recordings) it was not quite as ephemeral as one might think.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Madiel

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2019, 02:12:24 AM »
That is not my point. My point is that listening to a Mozart quartet in his days was more often than not a once-in-a-lifetime event.

Your point is factually incorrect, is my point.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2019, 09:56:39 AM »
Oh come on . . . get a move on . . . we're all dying to know . . . you're the only one with both recordings. Come on . . . I'm going to die of suspense and excitement . . .

The envelope please.....

Mandryka's is different!

I don't have time to go into specifics, I'll do that tonight when I have more time. But I have compared K387, Mvmt I, 1) my rip of the brown box, 2) a lossless (FLAC) download of the black box from presto classical, 3) mandrake's rip of the black box.

I found that the brown box was identical to the presto download of the black box (except for a different amount of silence at the beginning of the track, the download lagged by 1/40 of a second.) Other than that they were bit-for-bit identical in comparing the digital codes.

I found that the rip I got from mandryka was not identical to either of the other two versions. There were subtle waveform differences. I looked at a ~1ms sample of the waveform and found the codes typically shifted up or down by a bit or two. Interestingly there was no time shift relative to the brown box, absolutely none.

My conclusion:

Presto was lazy, they said "this release looks identical to those other releases, let's just copy the tracks over and call it the new release." So their download of the black box is identical to the brown box, even though the physical block box contains different masters.

I can't say whether mandryka's release was really remastered from the original tapes. Because the time synchronization was so spot on, I suspect they took their original master modified it, corrected the equalization, etc, reestablishing the 'silky sound' by that correction.

So Mandryka, your honor is preserved!

(Later I will post more details for the curious or disbelieving.)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 01:28:13 PM by Ghost of Baron Scarpia »
There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart - String Quartets
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2019, 01:00:57 PM »
I'm glad to hear it! And thanks for verifying.

To return to another issue, I think their EMI Mozart set is really very good, quartets and quintets. I can imagine that some people would prefer the quartets to the Teldec, and I don't mean just from the point of view of sound.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

 

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