Author Topic: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)  (Read 157150 times)

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Offline king ubu

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #940 on: September 26, 2016, 09:33:12 PM »
Gave a listen to Vol. 1 of the Rampe series yesterday - he can be heard on fortepiano (Fantasia KV 475 and Sonata KV 457), clavichord (various shorter pieces and variations) and harpsichord (Sonata KV 283) - full content listing and a review can be found here:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Oct05/mozart_clavier_MDG34113012.htm

My impressions are somewhat ambiguous. There's indeed a very physical quality to Rampe's playing, which I enjoy a lot. But somehow I found there was some of the ... I call it "wobbliness" for lack of better terms, that I hear as well in Staier's (to my ears horrible) Mozart solo recordings. It may have to do with the tuning used, I really don't know. Either way, it's certainly different from any other Mozart I've heard, and it's somehow very tangible and down to earth, colourful, immediate, fortright.

I only know what's in the "Lumières" box by Harmonia Mundi, haven't been pressed to check out more of his Mozart at all, after all we have the gorgeous - maybe for some: too lush? - series of recordings by Kristian Bezuidenhout. (I have much more by Staier and enjoy most of it to various degrees, his Haydn, his Schumann etc. - but not what I heard of his Mozart.)
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #941 on: September 27, 2016, 03:53:21 AM »
Gave a listen to Vol. 1 of the Rampe series yesterday - he can be heard on fortepiano (Fantasia KV 475 and Sonata KV 457), clavichord (various shorter pieces and variations) and harpsichord (Sonata KV 283) - full content listing and a review can be found here:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Oct05/mozart_clavier_MDG34113012.htm

My impressions are somewhat ambiguous. There's indeed a very physical quality to Rampe's playing, which I enjoy a lot. But somehow I found there was some of the ... I call it "wobbliness" for lack of better terms, that I hear as well in Staier's (to my ears horrible) Mozart solo recordings. It may have to do with the tuning used, I really don't know. Either way, it's certainly different from any other Mozart I've heard, and it's somehow very tangible and down to earth, colourful, immediate, fortright.

I only know what's in the "Lumières" box by Harmonia Mundi, haven't been pressed to check out more of his Mozart at all, after all we have the gorgeous - maybe for some: too lush? - series of recordings by Kristian Bezuidenhout. (I have much more by Staier and enjoy most of it to various degrees, his Haydn, his Schumann etc. - but not what I heard of his Mozart.)

Thanks for the followup, Ubu. That disk is not one I ordered already, so nice to hear it.

I am a great fan of Staier, but to some extent I agree with you about his Mozart. I appreciate ornamentation as much as any, possibly more than most, but I don't like his choices of ornaments for Mozart things, even though they are possibly as authentic as all-to-be-damned. One example is his 'Rondo alla Turca' from K 331, which is the most unique version I have ever heard. I am still ambivalent about that 2 disk set which I have had for nearly a year now.



I would like to hear what other period keyboard people who are familiar with this recording think of it. Over-ornamented?  Hmmm... :)

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Offline king ubu

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #942 on: September 27, 2016, 04:33:49 AM »
Okay, your comment does pique my curiosity ... and these often go cheap, so I might consider it. I assume the bits (two sonatas I think?) on the Lumières-set is taken from these same recordings?

But then, as I said, I really think Bezuidenhout is doing a splendid job in Mozart, so there's really no need for more (I have not heard any of his commercially released concertos ... which he'd do a large/complete cycle, saw him do two on telly, with the Freiburg Barockers, I think, and they were splendid).

I am also very fine with Bilson, both in sonatas and concertos (and have tons of Mozart recordings that are off-topic in this thread).
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #943 on: September 27, 2016, 04:46:34 AM »
Okay, your comment does pique my curiosity ... and these often go cheap, so I might consider it. I assume the bits (two sonatas I think?) on the Lumières-set is taken from these same recordings?

But then, as I said, I really think Bezuidenhout is doing a splendid job in Mozart, so there's really no need for more (I have not heard any of his commercially released concertos ... which he'd do a large/complete cycle, saw him do two on telly, with the Freiburg Barockers, I think, and they were splendid).

I am also very fine with Bilson, both in sonatas and concertos (and have tons of Mozart recordings that are off-topic in this thread).

I think they are the only Mozart sonata recordings he has made, so yes, I think they would be the source for the Lumières. I would say he makes them his own, I'm just not sure I want them to be his. :D

I certainly like Bezuidenhout, but I was looking for something on different keyboards, such as Schornsheim and Beghin do with Haydn. Thus when the Rampe popped up I was intrigued immediately. Like I mentioned to Mandrake, I really do like the interesting sounds of different keyboards. I just regret he didn't have a Tangentenflügel to play.

I also really like Bilson (sonatas and concertos), but I would suppose my favorite is Badura-Skoda, who seems to be the one I always come back to. I am so glad I picked up that box set during the 6 months it was available... :)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #944 on: September 27, 2016, 06:12:13 AM »
I just note that Staier was a Koopman pupil.
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Offline Gordo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #945 on: September 27, 2016, 07:29:05 AM »
I certainly like Bezuidenhout, but I was looking for something on different keyboards, such as Schornsheim and Beghin do with Haydn. Thus when the Rampe popped up I was intrigued immediately. Like I mentioned to Mandrake, I really do like the interesting sounds of different keyboards. I just regret he didn't have a Tangentenflügel to play.

I also really like Bilson (sonatas and concertos), but I would suppose my favorite is Badura-Skoda, who seems to be the one I always come back to. I am so glad I picked up that box set during the 6 months it was available... :)

8)

Your description sounds like Schoonderwoerd on Accent, Gurn.

I also prefer Badura-Skoda; but I have repaired it by preferring Bilson in Schubert.  ;D
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Offline king ubu

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #946 on: September 27, 2016, 08:39:31 AM »
I just note that Staier was a Koopman pupil.
That's interesting ... and so was Rampe, right? They seem - that's my impression at least - to have lost some of the warmth and much of the humour that I hear with Koopman. But obviously different people approach same things in different ways, and that's what makes it all as fascinating as it is. And we have the choice.

Haven't heard PBS doing Mozart sonatas, alas, but enjoy his Schubert a lot (Schubert though is someone where I really need modern piano versions badly, couldn't go with just PBS and Bilson there).

Also gotta revisit the Schoonderwoerd Mozart box - my first impression wasn't indicating it to be nearly as outrageously bad as most here seem to think.
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

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Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #947 on: September 27, 2016, 08:57:41 AM »

Also gotta revisit the Schoonderwoerd Mozart box - my first impression wasn't indicating it to be nearly as outrageously bad as most here seem to think.

I believe Gordo absolutely loved it.... :) 

It's on my wishlist, but so is Badura-Skoda, Bezuidenhout is on the way and IMO the Van Oort I have us wonderful.
The field is getting pretty crowded.... but Schoonderwoerd seems to have the edge on special instruments.

Q

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #948 on: September 27, 2016, 09:57:52 AM »
Also gotta revisit the Schoonderwoerd Mozart box - my first impression wasn't indicating it to be nearly as outrageously bad as most here seem to think.

Actually, I think it's an excellent set.

And frankly I don't recall a clamorous reaction against it, but it's probably because of just a few members bought it. ;D

That said, his Beethoven and Chopin recordings have caused some very disimilar reactions here. If I recall correctly, Que is a big fan of these disks.
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #949 on: September 27, 2016, 10:01:58 AM »
I just note that Staier was a Koopman pupil.

I have several Staier disks which I really enjoy. I am just not committed yet to his Mozart. I didn't know that though, interesting. :)

That's interesting ... and so was Rampe, right? They seem - that's my impression at least - to have lost some of the warmth and much of the humour that I hear with Koopman. But obviously different people approach same things in different ways, and that's what makes it all as fascinating as it is. And we have the choice.

Haven't heard PBS doing Mozart sonatas, alas, but enjoy his Schubert a lot (Schubert though is someone where I really need modern piano versions badly, couldn't go with just PBS and Bilson there).

Also gotta revisit the Schoonderwoerd Mozart box - my first impression wasn't indicating it to be nearly as outrageously bad as most here seem to think. 

I like PBS's Schubert too, and especially his Beethoven, but Mozart, he really excels. I also have a little bit of his Haydn and he is first-rate there too. :)

Your description sounds like Schoonderwoerd on Accent, Gurn.

I also prefer Badura-Skoda; but I have repaired it by preferring Bilson in Schubert.  ;D

Hey, Gordo! I have only heard a couple of cuts of his Mozart. I didn't know he played different keyboards on different pieces, that seems unusual for him. I have to say, although I know it is not the popular stance, that he is not in my top choices for most things. Sort of why I wanted to try Rampe, someone totally new to me. Who also appears to be adventurous in keyboard choice, like Schornsheim that way. I am kind of looking forward to hearing a 'new' player. :)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #950 on: September 27, 2016, 10:03:39 AM »
Actually, I think it's an excellent set.

And frankly I don't recall a clamorous reaction against it, but it's probably because of just a few members bought it. ;D

That said, his Beethoven and Chopin recordings have caused some very disimilar reactions here. If I recall correctly, Que is a big fan of these disks.

Correct, it was the Beethoven concertos that were controversial. I haven't heard anything against his Mozart. :-\

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #951 on: September 27, 2016, 10:19:19 AM »
BTW, dear Gurn, Schoonderwoerd plays his Mozart on these beautiful replicas:

CD1: Sonata in C major KV 279 (189d); Sonata in F major KV280 (189e); Sonata in B major KV 281 (189f)
CD2: Sonata in E lat major KV 282 (189g);  Sonata in G major KV 283 (189h); Sonata in D major KV 284 (205b)
tangent piano after Spaeth & Schmahl, c 1775 replica by William Jurgenson

CD3: Sonata in C major KV 309 (284b); Sonata in A minor KV 310 (300d);
Sonata in D major KV311 (284c)
CD4: Sonata in C major KV 330 (300h); Sonata in A major KV 331 (300i)
fortepiano after Johann Andreas Stein, c 1780 (bare wooden hammers) replica by William Jurgenson

CD5: Sonata in F major KV 332 (300k)
Sonata in B lat major KV 333 (315c)
Sonata in C major KV 545 „Sonata facile“
Sonata in D major KV576
clavichord (Northern Germany, c 1780) replica by Joris Potvlieghe

CD 6
Sonata in F major KV533 & KV494; Fantasie in C minor KV475; Sonata in B lat major KV570
fortepiano after Anton Walter, c 1790 (leather-covered hammers) replica by Paul Poletti and Gerard Tuinman
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Offline king ubu

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #952 on: September 27, 2016, 10:28:35 AM »
Actually, I think it's an excellent set.

And frankly I don't recall a clamorous reaction against it, but it's probably because of just a few members bought it. ;D

Thanks for chiming it! The clamorous reactions I had in mind occurred recently the listening thread or bought today thread, don't really remember and it's definitely not important enough to look it up.

@Gurn: guess I better check out Badura-Skoda's Mozart then! But that, alas, seems to be easier said then done. Where to start for clavier solo works?
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
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Fick mich, lieber Peter!
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Fick mich, lieber Peter!

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #953 on: September 27, 2016, 10:36:44 AM »
BTW, dear Gurn, Schoonderwoerd plays his Mozart on these beautiful replicas:

CD1: Sonata in C major KV 279 (189d); Sonata in F major KV280 (189e); Sonata in B major KV 281 (189f)
CD2: Sonata in E lat major KV 282 (189g);  Sonata in G major KV 283 (189h); Sonata in D major KV 284 (205b)
tangent piano after Spaeth & Schmahl, c 1775 replica by William Jurgenson

CD3: Sonata in C major KV 309 (284b); Sonata in A minor KV 310 (300d);
Sonata in D major KV311 (284c)
CD4: Sonata in C major KV 330 (300h); Sonata in A major KV 331 (300i)
fortepiano after Johann Andreas Stein, c 1780 (bare wooden hammers) replica by William Jurgenson

CD5: Sonata in F major KV 332 (300k)
Sonata in B lat major KV 333 (315c)
Sonata in C major KV 545 „Sonata facile“
Sonata in D major KV576
clavichord (Northern Germany, c 1780) replica by Joris Potvlieghe

CD 6
Sonata in F major KV533 & KV494; Fantasie in C minor KV475; Sonata in B lat major KV570
fortepiano after Anton Walter, c 1790 (leather-covered hammers) replica by Paul Poletti and Gerard Tuinman

Ah, very interesting. Now you have provoked me sufficiently to put the box in my cart, you rascal! I hope you're happy...  :D

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #954 on: September 27, 2016, 10:38:32 AM »
Thanks for chiming it! The clamorous reactions I had in mind occurred recently the listening thread or bought today thread, don't really remember and it's definitely not important enough to look it up.

@Gurn: guess I better check out Badura-Skoda's Mozart then! But that, alas, seems to be easier said then done. Where to start for clavier solo works?

They are on Naive, or were the last time I saw them. They had been single disks, then OOP, then, for just a brief time (certainly less than a year) they were readily available, then gone... Let me cast around... :-\

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Offline Gordo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #955 on: September 27, 2016, 10:39:17 AM »
Ah, very interesting. Now you have provoked me sufficiently to put the box in my cart, you rascal! I hope you're happy...  :D

8)

Totally delighted, actually.  ;D
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #956 on: September 27, 2016, 10:51:42 AM »
Totally delighted, actually.  ;D

That's so just like you...  :D

Ubu:



This, at least is what the cover of the box looks like. It has 6 disks, IIRC. I'll get back with you soon, at work now. :)

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Offline king ubu

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #957 on: September 27, 2016, 10:57:01 AM »
Thanks Gurn - seing the cover I remember ... I tried my luck in finding an acceptably priced copy of that already - to no avail, alas.

EDIT: all but one are around used for good prices, it seems ... hm.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 11:01:24 AM by king ubu »
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Jo498

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #958 on: February 20, 2017, 10:00:32 AM »
Orchestral serenades, PI:

[Koopman: Haffner, Hogwood: several]

So, depending on what you call a serenade, this is about the crop. Of course, there are some superb other disks, containing such works as the 3 'Salzburg Symphonies', and any number of 'Eine Kleine Nachtmusik' disks, some of which are coupled with Serenata notturna and others, but for the big orchestral serenades, this is about it. At least it is a good starting point. If you can grab these, you can then evaluate where you are and have a narrower field to search through. :)
While they might be considered not quite HIP by some, the Collegium Aureum used historical instruments and recorded most of the serenades in the 1970s and 1980s. Only a small fraction of their recordings was issued on CD and while most of the Mozart came out on CD this was usually around the 1991 anniversary... So one has to go for used copies (or maybe Japanese issues). They did Haffner, Posthorn, K 203, 204, 205, 247, 287, 525, the wind serenades and probably more.



Harnoncourt recorded the wind serenades, Haffner and Posthorn on modern instruments but Kleine Nachtmusik, Serenata notturna, K 204, Musical joke, Notturno for 4 orchestras and maybe another one or two smaller pieces with the Concentus musicus.

Zefiro did the wind serenades and one nice disc with mixed chamber scale serenades

« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:03:28 AM by Jo498 »
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Offline milk

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #959 on: November 18, 2018, 04:24:06 PM »
I'd never heard of any of these performers before. As far as I know, the only other recording of this on period instruments is by The Mozartean Players. This recording here, from 2013, (out of Italy?) is a pleasure. First of all, the sound is significantly clearer, fuller and crisper than the Lublin, so it's a step up in terms of sound production. I also think these are sensitive and convincing performances. Anyone else heard these?

 

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