Quiz: Mystery scores

[lukeottevanger]

...up to Rappy's no 34...

[lukeottevanger]

OK - finished all levels! 

[lukeottevanger]

What's the prize, Ralph?  0:)

[rappy]

Wow 
Congratulations! I expected the last rounds to be really hard! Especially #33 and #34.

But this game shows how unfamiliar most listeners are with the standard repertoire. I've presented that game in some German forums and as you see most people either don't even try or they are stuck at round #2.
When I see how people spam their recordings into thousands of threads about works I've never heard of, I'm always a little bit dejected. But they don't seem to know them at all. I would never say that I know a work if I did not recognize the main theme.

The prize is that you've gained my respect and the respect of everybody who looks at the highscores! 

[lukeottevanger]

Wow 
Congratulations! I expected the last rounds to be really hard! Especially #33 and #34.

They weren't too bad; a little application of stylistic knowledge helps.

But this game shows how unfamiliar most listeners are with the standard repertoire. I've presented that game in some German forums and as you see most people either don't even try or they are stuck at round #2.
When I see how people spam their recordings into thousands of threads about works I've never heard of, I'm always a little bit dejected. But they don't seem to know them at all. I would never say that I know a work if I did not recognize the main theme.

I know exactly what you mean, and believe me I sympathize. But at the same time I'd say that presenting the themes in this way - as Sforzando says, divorced from all context (harmonic, instrumental etc. etc.), and without the possibility of moving on and identifying others if you happen to get stuck on one - makes this quiz harder than you might think. I like to think I have good repertoire knowledge (and I know for a fact that Johan and Sforzando both have repertoire knowledge at least as good as mine) but I found this quiz difficult, for that reason. Sforzando is stuck for now on number 11, but I know that he knows 90%+ of the ones after it inside-out, and probably the others too. So if he were to leave it at number 10, that wouldn't be a fair indication of his knowledge of the repertoire. Same goes for Johan.

The prize is that you've gained my respect and the respect of everybody who looks at the highscores! 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Congratulations, Luke! Well done, Rappy! But I wish I could leave a Motiv I didn't know or recognize immediately on the back burner for a while, to see the others. Ah well...

(Thanks for sticking up for Sfz and poor me, Luke...)

[(poco) Sforzando]

They weren't too bad; a little application of stylistic knowledge helps.

I know exactly what you mean, and believe me I sympathize. But at the same time I'd say that presenting the themes in this way - as Sforzando says, divorced from all context (harmonic, instrumental etc. etc.), and without the possibility of moving on and identifying others if you happen to get stuck on one - makes this quiz harder than you might think. I like to think I have good repertoire knowledge (and I know for a fact that Johan and Sforzando both have repertoire knowledge at least as good as mine) but I found this quiz difficult, for that reason. Sforzando is stuck for now on number 11, but I know that he knows 90%+ of the ones after it inside-out, and probably the others too. So if he were to leave it at number 10, that wouldn't be a fair indication of his knowledge of the repertoire. Same goes for Johan.

Yes, Rappy, I have to agree. I can hear 11 in my mind and what I believe to be its 4-bar continuation, but I just can't place it right now - though I have no doubt of the period it was written in and a good chance I know the composer. But in all honesty, I think if you let people attempt all the choices and only then score their results, you'd get a much more accurate picture of their knowledge. As it is, if someone misses any one item in the sequence, they just can't go on. And your idea of what is hard or not may not be the same as mine, or Luke's, or anyone else's. As for #10, I know a great many major works by that composer, but that particular one is not a piece I know well - but I finally worked it out through recognizing stylistic traits and following some hunches. It seems to me though that you've arrived at a conclusion - "But this game shows how unfamiliar most listeners are with the standard repertoire" - based on insufficient evidence.

[Mark G. Simon]

Actually, it's more of a test of one's knowledge of the opus or catalogue numbers, as well as one's ability to guess the German romanization of Russian.

[rappy]

@Mark: You can easily look up those things.

I agree with you, Luke, that this game is not easy, but I expected it to be a challenge and it is one. Not everybody is supposed to reach the end.  Level 11 is quite good, as nobody apart from Luke has come further, Sforzando. With my conclusion I didn't mean people like you.
But from so many users who must have tried the game, only a few could identify the first two motives. That's surprising, IMO.

[lukeottevanger]

@Mark: You can easily look up those things.

Yes, I was under the impression that the opus number box was just to confirm that you'd identified the right work - I'm afraid I had no compunction in looking up opus numbers when I didn't know them.

Also, the opus number box, or lack thereof, was sometimes a clue in itself - no box means the composer is more likely to be Bruckner, or Wagner, or Mahler, some other non-opus-numbering composer, or something on those lines. And Haydn is unlikely, apart from quartets, the whole Hob. thing being too complex for a game like this!

Anyway, Ralph, thanks for the game - it was fun, and a good test! Very slick and good-looking too, may I say.

[rappy]

Yes, I was under the impression that the opus number box was just to confirm that you'd identified the right work - I'm afraid I had no compunction in looking up opus numbers when I didn't know them.

Yes, you were under the right impression.

Anyway, Ralph, thanks for the game - it was fun, and a good test! Very slick and good-looking too, may I say.

Thanks Luke, when I've got time I will improve it and add more rounds or change the rules...

[Mark G. Simon]

Anyway, I got as high as no. 11. I declined to enter my name, though.

and I don't like writing "Prokofjew". As appropriate as it might be for the composer of "Overture on Hebrew Themes", it looks like it must be something antisemitic.

[(poco) Sforzando]

@Mark: You can easily look up those things.

I agree with you, Luke, that this game is not easy, but I expected it to be a challenge and it is one. Not everybody is supposed to reach the end.  Level 11 is quite good, as nobody apart from Luke has come further, Sforzando. With my conclusion I didn't mean people like you.

I know that, Ralph. But designing a test is not easy, and I think you'll get more accurate results if you let people attempt all the questions, and/or you present them randomly. This retains the sense of challenge, but it doesn't preclude people from getting some of the later ones just because they can't get one of your earlier ones.

As for "Prokofjew," this seems to me in the same category as the Chevy Nova, which created sniggers in Latin America because "no va" means it doesn't run. To a German, this is just a Russian transliteration, which has no overtones of Jewishness as it does to us Anglos, "Jude" being the German word for Jew. (Anglo that I am, however, I do admit I was taken aback in a Berlin music store by seeing "Prokofjew" on a Peters Edition of Romeo und Julia.  )

[(poco) Sforzando]

MY RAPPY-STYLE QUIZ

Let's see how y'all do with my Rappy-Style Quiz. Like Rappy, I'm giving you only a snippet of melody from each piece (20 in all), without any tempo, dynamic, harmonization, or instrumentation. Unlike Rappy, you get 'em all at once, so if you don't know one or two you might know all the others. I will say that all the pieces are from standard repertoire and well-known composers. I think most of them should be quite easy, but we know what saying that means.  But no Peter Susser or similar giants here.

I would suggest that if you want to play the game, please send me your list of answers via Private Message. Composer and work only; I don't care about the K or Opus numbers so long as you clearly identify the piece. But PM is essential. If people start posting their answers on the board, then it would be the equivalent of "cheating" and the game will be compromised.

And I do hope Rappy takes part . . . .   

[rappy]

Luke, please confirm that my list was easier 

(and yes, I do take part, but I recognize only four themes at the moment  0:) )

[lukeottevanger]

Sorry to disappoint, Rappy - (so far) I think it's pitched at exactly the same level of difficulty! Same sorts of composers, pieces of the same level of 'fame'.....

Same difficulty as yours, of course, in the divorcing of the music examples from harmonic and instrumental context, so it's sometimes quite hard, again. First off I was able to identify about half of them; most of the rest look familiar so I'll ponder some more before PMing Sfz.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I recognize a few. But I leave it to Luke's more than capable hands, ears, memory to get them all right.

[lukeottevanger]

I recognize a few. But I leave it to Luke's more than capable hands, ears, memory to get them all right.

No pressure, then...

[(poco) Sforzando]

Sorry to disappoint, Rappy - (so far) I think it's pitched at exactly the same level of difficulty! Same sorts of composers, pieces of the same level of 'fame'.....

Which was exactly the intention. I can think of at most two pieces that might not be considered "standard repertoire," but they are both by major composers and are quite well-known nonetheless.

Meanwhile Rappy has correctly identified four of the excerpts, and so far has the high score. Everyone is welcome to play, and of course it would be fine to submit the ones you know and come back to the others later.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Okay, I'm game.