Author Topic: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)  (Read 24704 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« on: March 02, 2008, 02:52:04 AM »
I don't think that we've had a Tubin thread here.  He's one of my favourites. I know the symphonies quite well as I have the BIS box and all the Alba separate releases (and no money).

I recently discovered his lovely "Ballade for Violin and Orchestra" on BIS. It is only a short piece of just over 7 minutes but a perfect antidote to the hectic pace of modern life.

Any other Tubin fans out there?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Sean

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2008, 03:18:59 AM »
A very original figure, only getting due recognition in recent years- the Grove 1980 article is one short paragraph! I bought all the Jarvi series on BIS plus the piano music and other stuff. Some of the middle period symphonies are extremely interesting, with a unique harmonic world and motor rhythms; the piano sonata is closer to Messiaen.

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2008, 03:25:58 AM »
I know Christo is a fan, because he recommended him to me... I have listened to seven symphonies so far (under Järvi, on BIS). The ones I like most are the First, Fourth and Sixth.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

johnQpublic

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 05:34:14 AM »
Over a span of 6-8 years I collected all of his symphonies on seperate discs as chaeply as I could. That patience paid off.

I wouldn't have purchased them all if his voice hadn't resonated within me.

Harry

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 06:14:36 AM »
When the Tubin symphonies were realeased by BIS, which is some while ago, I bought the records immediately, and later bought the cd's. So I can say I am a admirer for quite some time. I always was attracted to this idiom, and played these LP's grey, so I was glad that before I had to buy them anew, the cd's came on the market.
The starkness, and unrelenting power in this music worked as a addictive drug on me.

paulb

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 08:15:59 AM »
I heard clips ;)
 :P

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 01:27:33 PM »
I know Christo is a fan, because he recommended him to me... I have listened to seven symphonies so far (under Järvi, on BIS). The ones I like most are the First, Fourth and Sixth.

No 2 "Legendary" is one of my favourites too.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 01:37:11 PM »
No 2 "Legendary" is one of my favourites too.

I find the opening of the Second magical. And the rest of the symphony is strong, too. And yet, and yet - I feel as if Tubin revisits the First and hides it by shuffling its elements around, so that the march becomes the centre of the work instead of the ending. In short - the Second convinces me less than the First, it seems less original.

What do you think?

I want to add: I only know the Järvi performance. Perhaps that makes a difference. Christo preferred Volmer...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 01:48:47 PM by Jezetha »
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 03:04:46 PM »
I find the opening of the Second magical. And the rest of the symphony is strong, too. And yet, and yet - I feel as if Tubin revisits the First and hides it by shuffling its elements around, so that the march becomes the centre of the work instead of the ending. In short - the Second convinces me less than the First, it seems less original.

What do you think?

I want to add: I only know the Järvi performance. Perhaps that makes a difference. Christo preferred Volmer...

I think that you make a very interesting point. I like the massive climax in the first movement of No 2 but I listen to No 1 more. Reviews of No 1 referred to it "standing apart" from the other symphonies but I could never see this myself. It strikes me as am entirely characteristic work, which i love. The opening movement of Symphony 4 is a favourite as is the moving conclusion of No 5. 1,2,4,5 and 10 are my favourites
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline PaulR

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 08:57:17 PM »
I like Tubin.  Though, rather than his symphonies, the piece I return to the most is his Bass concerto.  It's one of my favorites (If not the favorite) piece for the bass. 

As for symphonies, I like #10 and #9. 

Hector

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008, 07:32:28 AM »
I bought Jarvi's 3rd and 8th.

I persevere but suspect that there is nothing here that is better than  other, favourite, twentieth century symphonists.

I did the same with Holmboe and felt that there was little to get me out of my chair. :(

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 03:18:31 PM »
I heard clips ;)
 :P

Of course you did, Paul. And we all know that 30 seconds is all it takes to judge a work.

Sarge
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 06:51:01 AM by Sergeant Rock »
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                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Catison

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 09:05:06 PM »
I have found Tubin to be a great discovery.  The pieces that really sold me were the 3rd and 6th symphonies, particularly the first movement of the 3rd and the second movement of the 6th.  The rhythmic cohesiveness of the themes is so well done.  There are always new things to hear in the music.  It is a shame I won't have the opportunity to hear any of these symphonies live.
-Brett

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2008, 03:18:01 AM »
I have found Tubin to be a great discovery.  The pieces that really sold me were the 3rd and 6th symphonies, particularly the first movement of the 3rd and the second movement of the 6th.  The rhythmic cohesiveness of the themes is so well done.  There are always new things to hear in the music.  It is a shame I won't have the opportunity to hear any of these symphonies live.

Yes, I agree with your last point, although I did hear Gliere's Third Symphony live a while back...so there is always hope!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 06:54:18 AM »
Here's a review of a recent SOBR concert that included Tubin 5:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/03/ionarts-at-large-neem-jrvi-tubin-and.html#links


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2008, 08:55:23 AM »
Here's a review of a recent SOBR concert that included Tubin 5:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/03/ionarts-at-large-neem-jrvi-tubin-and.html#links


Sarge

Excellent review. I must give the Tubin Fifth another chance. It didn't impress me on first hearing as much as #1 and #4 and #6.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 12:07:34 AM »
Excellent review. I must give the Tubin Fifth another chance. It didn't impress me on first hearing as much as #1 and #4 and #6.

The end of the slow movement of No 5 is especially beautiful and very moving.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline violinconcerto

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 01:28:15 AM »
Hello!

I lately read that the Symphony No.2 "The legendary" by Eduard Tubin is for violin, viola, piano and orchestra.
Are there really three soloists or are these just promeninent solo parts for the orchestral members?
regards,
Tobias
www.tobias-broeker.de

Offline J.Z. Herrenberg

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 01:56:32 AM »
Hello!

I lately read that the Symphony No.2 "The legendary" by Eduard Tubin is for violin, viola, piano and orchestra.
Are there really three soloists or are these just promeninent solo parts for the orchestral members?

Hi, violinconcerto! No, there aren't three soloists. As far as I can remember violin, piano and viola have important parts, but "The Legendary" is not a concerto of sorts, but a real symphony.

Okay, I listened to the Fifth again. I have a big problem with the first movement. Yes, it has all the Tubin trade-marks - it is driven, a bit grim, and there are terrific climaxes. But I hear it as a weaker rehash of the opening movement of the Fourth, with none of the lyrical beauty. The melodic material simply can't sustain the dramatic uses to which it is put. That is why some of the music sounds bombastic. So - I don't like the first movement. The Andante is much better, especially the second half - a strange blend of Bax in Russian mood and, perhaps, Myaskovsky (vandermolen may correct me!) The final Allegro assai combines the ferocity of the first movement with the restrained lyricism of the second. But this movement, too, doesn't completely convince me. It is too much 'gesture symphonism', to coin a phrase (which is a problem I have with the Third, too).

In conclusion - the Fourth shows Tubin at his lyrical best, the Sixth at his most violent, and the Fifth sits uncomfortably in the middle...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 01:58:51 AM by Jezetha »
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Eduard Tubin (1905-82)
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 02:07:36 AM »
Hi, violinconcerto! No, there aren't three soloists. As far as I can remember violin, piano and viola have important parts, but "The Legendary" is not a concerto of sorts, but a real symphony.

Okay, I listened to the Fifth again. I have a big problem with the first movement. Yes, it has all the Tubin trade-marks - it is driven, a bit grim, and there are terrific climaxes. But I hear it as a weaker rehash of the opening movement of the Fourth, with none of the lyrical beauty. The melodic material simply can't sustain the dramatic uses to which it is put. That is why some of the music sounds bombastic. So - I don't like the first movement. The Andante is much better, especially the second half - a strange blend of Bax in Russian mood and, perhaps, Myaskovsky (vandermolen may correct me!) The final Allegro assai combines the ferocity of the first movement with the restrained lyricism of the second. But this movement, too, doesn't completely convince me. It is too much 'gesture symphonism', to coin a phrase (which is a problem I have with the Third, too).

In conclusion - the Fourth shows Tubin at his lyrical best, the Sixth at his most violent, and the Fifth sits uncomfortably in the middle...

Bax/Myaskovsky sounds about right to me for that movement.I was listening to Lyatoshinsky symphs 2 and 3 in the last couple of days. Reminded me of Tubin.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

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