Author Topic: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde  (Read 30926 times)

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Offline Leo K.

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #140 on: February 15, 2015, 07:25:33 PM »
Thanks Leo.

Cool, I want to write more, hopefully the words will, it takes many listens sometimes. The guy on Amazon takes the words out of my hand!

Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #141 on: February 04, 2016, 04:40:20 AM »
Eight pages across as many years does not seem like much for this masterpiece, especially as there are so many interesting recordings.

Looking back, most of those active in the initial discussions have moved on. Here is a link to an overview I produced including a few recordings, principally the Kubelik.


http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,699.msg14235.html#msg14235


Like the Kubelik, the disc I have just bought is live.

Giulini, Araiza, Fassbaender and the Vienna Philharmonic 2nd August 1987

Various sources, possibly prompted by comments in the booklet, suggest this is a very special occasion. Because Giulini was reluctant to work during the summer, he rarely appeared at the summer music festivals. So this is one of only three of Giulini's appearances at the Salzburg Festival. The singers replicate those from Berlin on the DG recording a few years prior. Giulini sanctioned this performance for release shortly before his death.

It is a very fine performance. The timings are similar to the Berlin recording. The singers are each in better voice, especially the tenor who sounds fuller and easier. To say this is a serious recording is possibly odd....none of the others have made me laugh, (except possibly Nagano with that fey sounding tenor he used). What I mean is that you do sense the sinking into the piece and the long journey. There is nothing flashy. For instance the long interlude in the final song sounds integrated, not a lot of drive or overt drama. But it is very effective. The singers are committed and really use the words. In this, Fassbaender is as usual ultra expressive and unafraid to push her tone to the max. She spits words out in fast passages. Her repeated ewigs at the end do not fade, they are firm, determined, and that also works exceptionally, as all about her, the world melts away.

The sound is fairly forward, for my taste it is really rather dry, though other opinions suggest the sound to be first rate. There are noticeable fluffs from the orchestra, but in the main they are clearly with Giulini.

If pushed, I prefer the live Kubelik that I link to above. His way with the score pulls me in more. Also I love the live recording conducted by Segun with Connolly and Spence. But this Giulini one does provide something special, he only conducted music that meant a lot to him. He dwelt on and with the music for a long time and yes, it was a special occasion.

I got the recording second hand for almost nothing, it comes from Orfeo packaged with a short accompaning disc containing the other piece from the concert, Mozart's Symphony no 40. I am not saying a word about that performance other than to say it is typical of late Giulini in this music, very, very slow.

Mike
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Offline Brewski

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #142 on: February 04, 2016, 06:36:17 AM »
Thanks for reviving this, Mike, and this Giulini recording sounds very special.

(PS, I have really enjoyed the handful of Fassbaender recordings I've heard, e.g., Mahler Das klagende Lied and Schoenberg Gurrelieder. Skimming through Amazon, I see she has a number of recital discs - haven't heard a single one!  :-[)

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Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #143 on: February 04, 2016, 06:47:58 AM »
Bruce, Do try to at least sample her Schubert Winterreise, gripping and remarkable. She reorders some of the songs to provide the narritave with more thrust. It is a somewhat discomforting journey, she moves through the songs arriving at derangement, it is that extreme. I like it being lifted right out of comfortable art-song territory. Also, there is Fassbaender and Janowitz in Bohn's live Cosi fan Tutti. Yet another performance that I would not be without.

Mike
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Offline Leo K.

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #144 on: February 04, 2016, 06:56:39 AM »
I am glad to see this thread revived. The Klemperer Das Lied on the Vox label is among my top choices now. Just this morning a friend offered me a broadcast of a Karajan 1970 performance in which he has two tenors and a mezzo (Christa Ludwig)! I haven't heard this yet. That is an interesting concept.


Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #145 on: February 04, 2016, 07:53:17 AM »
The only time I saw Karajan was for a Das Lied in Edinburgh: Kolo and Ludwig. It must have been about 1973/4. I already knew the Klemperer and did not connect with the smooth way I felt that Karajan projected. I have probably about 18 or so versions of the Mahler and none of them by Karajan, much as I enjoy a deal of his other work.

Mike
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #146 on: February 04, 2016, 09:08:21 AM »
Fassbaender is one of the most expressive singers I have heard, but some might consider her "over the top" (perfectably understandable). I highly recommend a Brahms Lieder recital that has been around on several labels (often very cheap), recorded in the early 80s and also (not quite as highly) a Berg/Mahler/Ogermann disc from the same vintage.
Right now I am listening (accidentally, before I saw these mentions of Fassbaender) to Fassbaender/Fi-Di in the Wunderhorn Lieder (cond. Zender, cpo, with a 9th symphony). I wonder, if I should get more of her Mahler!

As I a try to cut back on doublings (rather quintuplings or so), how highly would you recommend the DG or the Orfeo "Lied von der Erde", all things considered, Mike? And do you clearly prefer the live? (You write the singers are better live?! but the overall sound is not so good)
My favorite for the tenor (and maybe overall, but this is also imprinting) is Klemperer/EMI and I also like the live Kubelik/Kmentt/Baker mentioned a lot.
But I am afraid I have to at least hear Fassbaender in the alto part at some stage (except for the first song, the tenor songs hardly matter for me, the three alto songs clearly dominate the piece in my view).
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #147 on: February 04, 2016, 09:48:17 AM »
She is a great favourite of mine, I have quite a few discs and sets that she graces; I have drawn the line at Italian opera sets that are in German. The Boskovsky Fledermaus allows her to provide the most sexy Count Orlovsky, that whole set is a joy, very much underrated.

Turning to DLvDE, she has a greater range of expression in the live version. There is a piano accompanied arrangement on CD, but even as a fan I find that her voice had loosened just a little to much for comfort by the time it was recorded.

She has recorded on one disc the major Mahler groups with Chailly, very fruity, well worth getting. I wish she had been recorded a bit earlier, but what a wealth of experience and authority she brings to them. Her singing on the Kleiber Tristan is another treasureable performance and there are certainly other reasons to grab that set.

There is a superb List recital on DG, probably available somewhere at a bargain. There is also a two disc set on EMI, as well as her wonderful Bach and other obvious items, there is an amazing Suicido fromGioconda, she sounds like a soprano.

Happy hunting Jo.

Mike
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Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #148 on: September 10, 2018, 05:52:43 AM »
A new recording:
Simon Rattle, Stuart Skelton, Magdalena Kozena
Bayerischen Randfunks Symphonieorchester: live recording three days in Jan 18

I am not a particular fan of Rattle’s work. I have very few of his recordings. Two which give me lasting pleasure are the Peleas et Melisande and his Berlin St Matthew Passion. A friend who is more enamoured of him has been raving about his live Mahler 9th performances. I like both singers here and therefore ordered this on its release date.

I suppose this is about version 20 in my collection. Anyway, what is it like?

The orchestral sound is excellent, forward and clear. Likewise the singers are well forward. I like distinctive Mahler and this seems very straight. That will make many happy, but I prefer to detect a vision rather than an efficient pass across the notes. I imagine I am being unfair. But it does not grab me as my favourites do. The speeds are fine, it is not too hectic or testing in song four, and the final song lasts 31.29. The orchestra sounds terrific with beautiful woodwind solos.

Where I am disappointed is, for example, in the extended orchestral areas of the final song. The likes of Klemperer, Giulini, Kubelik and Levine all take these passages and sink you into the journey, mini symphonies carry you along. But I don’t feel nearly so engaged by Rattle. This goes for the piece generally.

I usually enjoy both singers, Skelton is an exciting, involved and involving singer, but here I think he sounds too stressed by the tessetura of his first two songs. One high note sounds like a hatpin was required to get him there. And as this was recorded over three days, I assume we are not simply stuck with some on the night problems. His last song brings out a lot of detail and is well negotiated. He has been well praised for live performances of this in London.

Kozena, it turns out, is the main reason for buying the disc. The voice is vibrant and very expressive and she is up for all the technical challenges. She does have a bit of a habit of leaning into notes when moving upward, eliding the notes. It sounds out of place. But the stained glass colours of her voice are such a pleasure.  The last song goes well for her, but the final ewigs do not fade, the orchestra does not disintigrate. All terribly well thought through and professionally executed. But I am not on its wavelength. No doubt Grammophone will rave about it in due course, after all, it is Rattle.

Mike

« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 09:28:15 AM by knight66 »
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Offline JBS

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #149 on: September 10, 2018, 09:21:16 AM »
Thank you. I saw that one and held back because it was Rattle. Now it definitely becomes low priority.

Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #150 on: September 10, 2018, 09:25:35 AM »
Thank you. I saw that one and held back because it was Rattle. Now it definitely becomes low priority.

I have not seen any reviews of the disc, or the live concert. Others may give a very different impression. My own recommendation for a modern version would be

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Das-Lied-von-Erde/dp/B00EZWNIT4/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1536603841&sr=1-1&keywords=das+lied+von+der+erde+spence


Mike
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Offline André

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #151 on: September 10, 2018, 11:25:07 AM »
Milos made me discover a recording I was unaware of: Sinopoli with the Staatskapelle, Dresden. Sung by Keith Lewis and Iris Vermilion. A truly transcendant interpretation. The Dresden orchestra’s dark chocolate palette is strikingly handsome.


Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #152 on: September 10, 2018, 11:50:39 AM »
That is one I don’t know. I like Keith Lewis a lot. Was the voice large enough? I think of him as being a very elegant singer. I was in a Berlioz Requiem where he was the soloist. Bertini was conducting and he was clearly experimenting to see how Lewis could cope with a slow tempo, then an even slower tempo. He sailed through it, wonderful breath control.

I will have a look at it, I tend to like Sinopoli in the late Romantic work that is on the cusp of ‘modern’.

Mike
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Offline JBS

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #153 on: September 10, 2018, 12:50:04 PM »
I have not seen any reviews of the disc, or the live concert. Others may give a very different impression. My own recommendation for a modern version would be

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Das-Lied-von-Erde/dp/B00EZWNIT4/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1536603841&sr=1-1&keywords=das+lied+von+der+erde+spence


Mike

I put that one on the list...and in turn suggest Nott's recording with the Bambergers. Very different from the Kauffman vanity project which he also conducted.

Offline PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #154 on: September 10, 2018, 01:11:40 PM »
Milos made me discover a recording I was unaware of: Sinopoli with the Staatskapelle, Dresden. Sung by Keith Lewis and Iris Vermilion. A truly transcendant interpretation. The Dresden orchestra’s dark chocolate palette is strikingly handsome.


I noticed the "Best 1000" on the cover. Is that disc one of the best 1000 produced by DG? Is there a list?

Offline JBS

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #155 on: September 10, 2018, 03:50:12 PM »
Milos made me discover a recording I was unaware of: Sinopoli with the Staatskapelle, Dresden. Sung by Keith Lewis and Iris Vermilion. A truly transcendant interpretation. The Dresden orchestra’s dark chocolate palette is strikingly handsome.



It is included both incarnations of Sinopoli's Mahler




Offline André

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #156 on: September 10, 2018, 04:38:01 PM »
I noticed the "Best 1000" on the cover. Is that disc one of the best 1000 produced by DG? Is there a list?

I have no idea. I just picked up that cover on the net. Mine does not have that ‘best 1000’ caption.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 04:44:20 PM by André »

Offline Biffo

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Re: Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde
« Reply #157 on: September 10, 2018, 11:54:53 PM »
I put that one on the list...and in turn suggest Nott's recording with the Bambergers. Very different from the Kauffman vanity project which he also conducted.

I have the Nott/Bamberger; initial impression was good but not outstanding. I have been listening to some of Nott's Mahler on Spotify and recently purchased Symphony No 3. I haven't had chance to listen to it but will report in due course.

I listened to the Kauffman recording on Spotify - it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be but I wish he had recorded it with a contralto, he was fine in the tenor songs.

The Nezet-Seguin version with the LPO is fine, I enjoy it and have listened to it several times though it had some lukewarm reviews.