Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[Todd]

It means you can lecture 71db on Finnish politics....

Nah, Finland is less important than the shithole state of Oregon.  Finland doesn't even have a GDP per capita to match the Beaver State.  That takes purposeful mismanagement.

[drogulus]

Medicare for All is not very radical. Probably the most politically feasible form is a limited version in which the government provides insurance for anyone who can not get it through their work.

     That's probably the easiest way. I note that what I have can be easily extended. I have MediCare from a private insurer. If insurance companies want to play, we'll let them. If they don't, that's OK, too, and probably better in the long run.

Where the Leftist program is going too far is in other areas

1)The Green New Deal is based on the idea that in the name of climate change, government regulation needs to be more intrusive and more centrally planned, and with more taxes. Half the US electorate thinks we already have too much. As a sort of libertarian, I am one of them.
Plus it tries to smuggle in a bunch of social justice goals that have nothing to do with the environment. 

     I think you don't have a good fix on what the Green New Deal can and should be. It's an economic program or it isn't what it needs to be.

     Whatever is the most expensive thing we need to do is, that's what will get our future prosperity from. It damn well better be expensive, too expensive to keep us poor. We have to get richer doing it, and we will. That's how societies evolve and grow, and not by neglecting the greatest challenge of the age. My advice is to give up on any ideology that tells you different, it's not your friend.

     You don't have to smuggle social justice ideas into environmental and economic programs, either your ideas or mine. They are always there. You can't disguise this be making your ideas implicit or covert or whatever.

     The left is less popular as an identity than as a basket of programs. Repubs favor left programs by smaller majorities.

[Karl Henning]

In declaring a national emergency, Trump reminds Republicans: It's all about him
https://wapo.st/2SWOVmO

[drogulus]

     Elizabeth Warren's popular plan to tax the rich is probably unconstitutional

     Even I dislike it enough for it to be unconstitutional. I'm using the same model liberty lovers use when they preach that government intervention in its own functions is Bad. If you can't find a Bad Thing unconstitutional you aren't trying.

     Nevertheless, I don't like the wealth tax. It springs from the same goat killing impulse all "revenooers" have on both the left and right. We've got to get money from the bad peoples to give it to the good ones. No such economic function exists. The government does no such thing no matter what it tells you or you tell yourself.

     https://www.youtube.com/v/9fWGDfxA2oE

     While we're here (we are here) I'm thinking about hating taxes on corporate profits, though not to the extent of finding such taxes unconstitutional. Maybe it's enough that it's a bad idea.

      https://www.youtube.com/v/PLjcjt4F5fA

[drogulus]

     Robert Mueller has spent two years investigating Trump, and he hasn't said a word. It's possible he never will.

     That's how I've come to see it. Mueller has to submit a confidential report to Barr. By his own inclination Mueller will not make recommendations. Congress will have to do its own walking and gum chewing and the record of actions taken by the Mueller team will be all they need to guide their own investigations.

Rudy Giuliani, Trump's lead attorney, has said repeatedly that he fully expects Mueller to produce a final report, indicating that the president's legal team would issue a "counter-report."

     What investigation would such a counter-report be based on?

[BasilValentine]

The point is that unless evidence emerges that clearly and undeniably shows Trump guilty of some crime...evidence so clear and undeniable that only the most hardcore of Trumpkins will deny it...the GOP will defend Trump to the last vote, and imoeachment won't work. And I doubt such evidence will come to light, ever: Javanka, DonJr and Eric are never going to turn on Daddy. Jared might, but only if he is interested in divorcing Ivanka.

There probably is such evidence, in Russia. Under Putin's control and therefore will become public only when Putin decides it is to his advantage to do so, and only in a manner which will not allow it to be clear and undeniable.

You must mean "a more interesting crime," because there's already evidence of multiple felonies. That for two counts of campaign finance violations is on tape. We all heard it. There is also the financial fraud and falsification of business records connected to the underlying transactions, also felonies. Trump has likely already been indicted for these under seal. Obstruction of justice is clear as well. Trump confessed to one of about twenty instances on national TV.

The evidence isn't only in Russia. You might be forgetting that the records of FBME Bank, shut down in 2017 (and whose records are now administered by the Bank of Cypress) have been accessed by federal investigators and the Treasury Department's criminal division, as has their links to Deutsche Bank, who worked as a correspondent bank for FBME and as Trump's biggest lender. FBME was a longstanding conduit for laundered Russian money, and money passing through it has been tied to Putin and his cronies (which are among the reasons for its demise). So, your claim that the probable evidence is "under Putin's control and therefore will become public only when Putin decides it is to his advantage" is likely wrong. The U.S. Treasury Department has evidence on Putin and the money he and his pals were passing through FBME and its correspondent banks, and it is assumed the Mueller investigation has spun off the investigation of the Trump and his administration's involvement in this and other financial malfeasance to Treasury and the criminal division of the IRS, just as it has spun off other matters to the SDNY and N Virginia.

[drogulus]

     Help wanted: Rural America needs immigrants

Storm Lake's crime rate last year reached a 27-year low. It is more diverse than ever. Some 30 languages or dialects are spoken here. But the community knows it will wither up and blow away without its young people. Like it or not, legal or not, our young people are predominantly Latino. If there is to be a wall, there will have to be a door for immigrants to find their way here as the better-educated leave for the brighter lights and greener urban pastures.

     Who cares about rural America and what it needs? If they refuse to hate immigrants how white can they be?

[drogulus]

     I doubt we need Putin or the evidence that is under his control. There is plenty of evidence here to tie Trump and Trumpist family and associates to the conspiracy to rig the election. Most of TrumPutin is unfolding right before our eyes.

     One can always claim that the really important clincher case is just over the horizon, something we haven't yet uncovered. Maybe "it" doesn't exist! Maybe Trump will only be implicated in the cases that are being brought, and not any over the horizon cases. It's OK with me. Trump can be unindicted for everything he can be unindicted for.

[BasilValentine]

     I doubt we need Putin or the evidence that is under his control. There is plenty of evidence here to tie Trump and Trumpist family and associates to the conspiracy to rig the election. Most of TrumPutin is unfolding right before our eyes.

     One can always claim that the really important clincher case is just over the horizon, something we haven't yet uncovered. Maybe "it" doesn't exist! Maybe Trump will only be implicated in the cases that are being brought, and not any over the horizon cases. It's OK with me. Trump can be unindicted for everything he can be unindicted for.

The recent filings in the Manafort and Stone cases demonstrate that "we" have no idea where Mueller's horizon lies. He has had direct documentary proof of Trump campaign conspiracy with the GRU and Wikileaks for months (or perhaps years) and we only found out about it three days ago. 

[Todd]

You must mean "a more interesting crime," because there's already evidence of multiple felonies. That for two counts of campaign finance violations is on tape. We all heard it. There is also the financial fraud and falsification of business records connected to the underlying transactions, also felonies. Trump has likely already been indicted for these under seal. Obstruction of justice is clear as well. Trump confessed to one of about twenty instances on national TV.

The evidence isn't only in Russia. You might be forgetting that the records of FBME Bank, shut down in 2017 (and whose records are now administered by the Bank of Cypress) have been accessed by federal investigators and the Treasury Department's criminal division, as has their links to Deutsche Bank, who worked as a correspondent bank for FBME and as Trump's biggest lender. FBME was a longstanding conduit for laundered Russian money, and money passing through it has been tied to Putin and his cronies (which are among the reasons for its demise). So, your claim that the probable evidence is "under Putin's control and therefore will become public only when Putin decides it is to his advantage" is likely wrong. The U.S. Treasury Department has evidence on Putin and the money he and his pals were passing through FBME and its correspondent banks, and it is assumed the Mueller investigation has spun off the investigation of the Trump and his administration's involvement in this and other financial malfeasance to Treasury and the criminal division of the IRS, just as it has spun off other matters to the SDNY and N Virginia.

You make a lot of claims about existing evidence.  Can you please provide a link to your sources?

I see that you also state that Trump has likely already been indicted.  Can you please provide a link to your sources and to documentation from the DOJ that refutes existing opinions about whether the president can be indicted?

I gotta be honest, absent some type of documentary evidence, your entire post appears to be pure bullshit.

[drogulus]

     

The recent filings in the Manafort and Stone cases demonstrate that "we" have no idea where Mueller's horizon lies. He has had direct documentary proof of Trump campaign conspiracy with the GRU and Wikileaks for months (or perhaps years) and we only found out about it three days ago. 

      That's true, we don't know what else Mueller has, and my point is that what we know he has is enough to tie TrumPutin together with a big fat unindicted donut hole in the center. I'm very OK with Trump being unindicted as far as the eye can see.

[71 dB]

Nah, Finland is less important than the shithole state of Oregon.  Finland doesn't even have a GDP per capita to match the Beaver State.  That takes purposeful mismanagement.

Oregon indeed does have higher GDP per capita than Finland, but also ~1.5 times higher Gini index. The average income level is about the same, but since income inequaty in Oregon is higher, ~15 % of the population in Oregon are under poverty line compared to ~6 % in Finland. GDP per capita is not everything. There are other things to consider in evaluating whether a place is a shithole or not. Finland is currently ranked as the happiest country in the World by UN (score 7.632) while the US is ranked at 18 (score 6.886).

If Oregon is a shithole, I wonder what do you call Alabama? Hell?

[Todd]

Oregon indeed does have higher GDP per capita than Finland, but also ~1.5 times higher Gini index. The average income level is about the same, but since income inequaty in Oregon is higher, ~15 % of the population in Oregon are under poverty line compared to ~6 % in Finland. GDP per capita is not everything. There are other things to consider in evaluating whether a place is a shithole or not. Finland is currently ranked as the happiest country in the World by UN (score 7.632) while the US is ranked at 18 (score 6.886).

At least you know how to Google.  Too bad you cannot contextualize. 

Perhaps as a Finn you can explain how Finland can be rated as the happiest country in the world given its high suicide rate.  Those two things seem to be at odds.

If Oregon is a shithole, I wonder what do you call Alabama? Hell?

I've never been to Alabama.  Taking just one measure of state level achievement, Alabama does manage to have a higher high school graduation rate than Oregon.  But then, Oregon has been ruled by the Democrat party since admitted child rapist Neil Goldschmidt was governor, so what can one expect?  Maybe Alabama is materially worse than Oregon, maybe not.  I wonder what you base your potential assessment of Alabama on.  It seems as though you are ignorant of Alabama, as you are of the US generally, and rely on stereotypes you picked up online. 

[71 dB]

If you don't want him as POTUS work to get the Democratic Party to nominate a moderate who will push back against the Ocasio-Cortez types and be appeal to the very larhe number of people who do not like Trump but like the current Leftist trend in the Democratic Party even less.

Democrats already tried a 'moderate' candidate, Hillary Clinton, and FAILED in an epic manner. Under Obama the democrats lost over 1000 seats!Americans are sick of the corruption and politicians only serving their donors. In order to win Trump in 2020 the Democrats need a real progressive as their candidate. Someone who fights for the people: Medicare for all, free collage, ending the wars and drug war, living wage, paid vacation by law, gun laws etc. That the stuff that helps the 99 % of the population that has been ignored for decades.

[Todd]

In order to win Trump in 2020 the Democrats need a real progressive as their candidate.

Someone send this advice to the DNC stat!  71 dB knows the US.  Just ask him.

[71 dB]

At least you know how to Google.  Too bad you cannot contextualize. 

Perhaps as a Finn you can explain how Finland can be rated as the happiest country in the world given its high suicide rate.  Those two things seem to be at odds.

Certainly you did Google Finland's and Oregon's GDP too, or are you some kind of GDP data guru? I can contextualize beyond thinking an index tells about the quality of living.

The joke goes that Finns are one of the happiest people in the World, because the miserable ones kill themselves. The real answer lies in how suicides are statistically compiled differently in countries. Catholic countries have low suicide rates, because suicides are considered a huge sin and suicides are compiled as accidental deaths. In Finland suicides are suicides. Alcohol also has a part in this. Finns drink too much and things happen...

[Todd]

Certainly you did Google Finland's and Oregon's GDP too, or are you some kind of GDP data guru?

Nope, I didn't Google it, it is something I know from reading physically published material.  I read it every year.  I certainly do not remember every country, and I do not remember specific numbers, but rather general figures and trends. 

I can contextualize beyond thinking an index tells about the quality of living.

Not really.  You use other statistical measures.  They do not really describe quality of life.

The joke goes that Finns are one of the happiest people in the World, because the miserable ones kill themselves. The real answer lies in how suicides are statistically compiled differently in countries. Catholic countries have low suicide rates, because suicides are considered a huge sin and suicides are compiled as accidental deaths. In Finland suicides are suicides. Alcohol also has a part in this. Finns drink too much and things happen...

And yet Finland is rated the happiest country.  Of course, this comes from the UN, the same body that advocates voluntary insect eating and has countries like China and Saudi Arabia on its "human rights" council, so accolades may not really be worth much.

[71 dB]

Someone send this advice to the DNC stat!  71 dB knows the US.  Just ask him.

Yes, I could advice them. They are that clueless in their Washington bubble. They don't understand how the US has moved to the era of political populism. Trump, Tea Party movement etc. represent the insane right-wing populism while Bernie Sanders & Co. represent the sane left wing populism.  However, if they want someone much better than me as their advisor I recommend listening to Kyle Kulinski.

It's pretty ironic I have to explain these things to you while you belittle my understanding of the US politics.

[Todd]

Yes, I could advice them. They are that clueless in their Washington bubble. They don't understand how the US has moved to the era of political populism. Trump, Tea Party movement etc. represent the insane right-wing populism while Bernie Sanders & Co. represent the sane left wing populism.  However, if they want someone much better than me as their advisor I recommend listening to Kyle Kulinski.

It's pretty ironic I have to explain these things to you while you belittle my understanding of the US politics.

This forum definitely has its good points.

[BasilValentine]

You make a lot of claims about existing evidence.  Can you please provide a link to your sources?

I see that you also state that Trump has likely already been indicted.  Can you please provide a link to your sources and to documentation from the DOJ that refutes existing opinions about whether the president can be indicted?

I gotta be honest, absent some type of documentary evidence, your entire post appears to be pure bullshit.

Definition of "pure bullshit:" Readily available public information you haven't bothered to keep track of. You must be aware of the campaign finance violations for which Michael Cohen has plead guilty, right? And you heard the tape in which Trump authorized these violations right? So I will assume you don't need links for any of that. There is no dispute that indictments can be written under seal and then put into effect later. It's done all the time for various reasons. In the Trump campaign finance case, a sealed indictment would serve several purposes: Such an indictment does not interfere with or distract from the president's ability to execute the duties of his office, thereby nullifying the basis for Justice Department guidelines discouraging indictment of a sitting president. More important, a sealed indictment ensures that should Mueller be fired, the indictment would not disappear, but would survive to be taken up by the Justice Department. This alone makes it a no-brainer for Mueller. Additionally, a sealed indictment solves potential statute of limitations issues should Trump remain in office for two terms (saints forefend!), since the "timer" starts only when such indictments are unsealed. 

I'll get to the banking issues later, although there is a whole series of articles on this in the Guardian and many other sources if you are actually interested in being informed on these issues.