A New Game (High Difficulty)

[JoshLilly]

I'm starting to wonder if some people are guessing without listening. 
The earlier of the two (from which the schzerzo is drawn), was started before the birth of Herzogenberg; although, he's an interesting composer in his own right! Ever heard any of his symphonies? Not one of my favourites, personally, but I don't regret my time spent with his music.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The earliest sketches for Brahms 1 date from 1862. The work was finished in 1876.

There must have been more than just sketches. Not to contradict you (a work begins with sketches), but I remember reading Brahms played the whole first movement to Clara Schumann in the early 1860s. Do you have a Brahms study somewhere to check?!

[The new erato]

Herzogenberg, Rheinberger; we're talking stuff I have no listening references to despite listening rather widely.

[JoshLilly]

If you wanted to visit this composer's birthplace, you need to go to Italy! Maybe that will be a mild surprise.
This composer had a non-famous student, who in turn had an extremely famous student.

[rappy]

An impressive guess! If you've heard Lachner's Symphony #5 of the 1830s, this is an especially good guess. But no, this wasn't Lachner.

Thanks 
Yeah, it did sound similiar to Lachner's symphonies I know. But if it's not him, I dunno... this is really difficult 

[The new erato]

Another wild guess: Johann Rufinatscha ??

[JoshLilly]

 

Holy jeez. Yep, that's him. Rename the files like so:

Rufinatscha, Johann - Symphony #5 in B minor - 2 Scherzo (Molto vivace); Trio (Allegro)
Rufinatscha, Johann - Symphony #6 in D - 1 Largo; Adagio; Andante; Allegro con fuoco


Wow, maybe not as high difficulty as I thought. Nice going, erato!!!

[(poco) Sforzando]

Holy jeez. Yep, that's him. Rename the files like so:

Rufinatscha, Johann - Symphony #5 in B minor - 2 Scherzo (Molto vivace); Trio (Allegro)
Rufinatscha, Johann - Symphony #6 in D - 1 Largo; Adagio; Andante; Allegro con fuoco


Wow, maybe not as high difficulty as I thought. Nice going, erato!!!

Not a wild guess at all; check out Wikipedia:

Rufinatscha was born in 1812 in Mals, in the Austrian (now Italian) province of Südtirol. At the age of 14 he came to Innsbruck, where he studied the piano, violin, and musical study at the conservatory. After that he settled in Vienna, where he would remain for the rest of his life.

During his lifetime he was most prominent as a teacher of piano and harmony in Vienna. Rufinatscha seems to have spent most of his life teaching rather than composing actively, which would explain why he composed fairly few pieces. He knew Johannes Brahms and composed a number of works (including several symphonies) during the period in which Brahms refused to publish any symphonic works because of his fear not to live up to Beethoven's legacy. While predicted by contemporaries to become a major composer of his day, this did not turn out to be the case, and as such he is still relatively obscure. However, as a music teacher he was influential; among his pupils were composers such as Ignaz Brüll and Julius Epstein. He died in 1893 in Vienna.

Rufinatscha is recognised as one of Tirol's most important composers of the 19th century. His works can be said to form a connection between those of Franz Schubert and Anton Bruckner. Shortly before his death Rufinatscha decided to donate the manuscripts of his compositions to the Tyrolean provincial museum, where they remain to this day. In the past few years some of his works have been recorded on CD, and are for sale from the Museum's shop.

And the dates and tonalities are right:

Symphony No. 1 in D major (1834)
Symphony No. 2 in E-flat major (1840)
Symphony No. 3 (lost)
Symphony No. 4 in C minor (1846): only the piano four-hands adaptation in 3 extant movements survives
Symphony No. 5 in B minor (1846): versions exist for both piano four-hands and orchestra
Symphony No. 6 in D major (c.1865): versions exist for both piano four-hands and orchestra

I'd be curious how erato got it. I've never heard of the dude! 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Very very impressive, erato! Never heard of him, and I have been reading about classical music for more than 30 years now (and remembering much of it, too).

I stand in awe.

[JoshLilly]

I hope I didn't give too many clues to allow a simple search engine hit. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I hope I didn't give too many clues to allow a simple search engine hit. 

'Wild guess' doesn't seem to imply an Internet hunt, but the dredging up of a half-forgotten name...

[The new erato]

I've been following this thread for some time with a view to visiting the Tiroler Landesmuseum this summer to buy the discs (will be in the vicinity on vacation):

http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=19117

It suddenly popped into my head without any searching. Cross my heart etc....

[Sergeant Rock]

I hope I didn't give too many clues to allow a simple search engine hit. 

Although I didn't actively participate, I enjoyed hearing the music and reading this thread. Do you know if the recordings are available anywhere but the Tiroler Landesmuseum (they have an online shop)? A search of JPC and Amazon turned up nothing by this composer.

Sarge

[The new erato]

Although I didn't actively participate, I enjoyed hearing the music and reading this thread. Do you know if the recordings are available anywhere but the Tiroler Landesmuseum (they have an online shop)? A search of JPC and Amazon turned up nothing by this composer.

Sarge

If you go to the thread there's some info on buying them through the post. Seem easier to drive by (from Norway).   

[Sergeant Rock]

If you go to the thread there's some info on buying them through the post. Seem easier to drive by (from Norway).   

And I'm even closer, so yeah, I might as well just go and pick them up. 

Sarge

[(poco) Sforzando]

Since I thought there was a post questioning the Brahms 1 dating, here are three sources on the subject, each slightly at odds with the other: 

Brahms did not write a symphony until he felt himself fully prepared for the task. The Symphony No 1 in C minor, which he had been sketching for 15 years, was completed in 1876, No 2 in D major in 1877, No 3 in F major in 1883, and No 4 in E minor in 1885.
http://library.thinkquest.org/22673/brahms.html

The Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 68, by Johannes Brahms was first performed on November 4, 1876 in Karlsruhe. The premiere was conducted by Felix Otto Dessoff, a friend of the composer. It took Brahms at least 14 years to complete, the first sketches dating from 1862.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Brahms)

Brahms began his first symphony in the 1850s and completed it in 1876..
As early as 1862, he sent a completed first movement to Clara Schumann. "Imagine my surprise!" she wrote to Joseph Joachim, who would one day play the violin concerto Brahms wrote for him in a single summer. Clara's surprise eventually turned to dismay when Brahms continued to drag things out, sending her the horn call from the finale as a birthday card some six years later, and finally sitting her down to listen as he played the whole symphony at the piano another eight years after that...
When Brahms sent his completed first movement to Clara Schumann in 1862, it didn't begin with the fierce and arresting introduction we know, but took off like a rocket from the headlong Allegro. Clara confessed to Joachim that the beginning seemed bold and "rather harsh, but I have become used to it." Brahms, however, evidently didn't, because when he played the entire symphony for Clara more than a dozen years later, it began with the powerful, measured drum beat and chromatic unfolding that now lead straight into the Allegro.
http://www.cso.org/main.taf?p=5,5,5,98

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks, Sforzando! We can agree upon one thing: Brahms didn't give birth to his symphonic firstling easily.